February 26, 2025 • 42 mins
Tune-in as Mike Dussault and Evan Lazar were on location at the 2025 NFL Combine and break down everything that stood out from Day 2 of media access. We sit down with Patriots Executive Vice President of Player Personnel Eliot Wolf to talk about his 31st year at the combine, the Patriots offseason plans for free agency, the draft and more. Plus, ESPN's Mike Reiss joins us to discuss the state of the team, potential Draft prospects that fit with the Patriots, impressions of Head Coach Mike Vrabel and more.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to the NFL Draft, hosted.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
By the writers of Patriots dot Com. From now until
you here the New England Patriots Swidge, the countdown is on.
Welcome to the Patriots Draft Countdown, presented by bud Light.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Welcome everybody who are coming to you from day two
of the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. This is Patriots
Draft Countdown presented by bud Light. Bud Light Easy to Drink,
Easy to Enjoy, the official beer sponsor of the New
England Patriots. And a lot going on today, Evan. We
heard from Elliott Wolfe. We heard from the defensive front seven,
a really stacked position group here in this draft class,
which I was excited about. Things got a little delayed
(00:40):
at times, but otherwise it was pretty smooth sailing. A
lot of appealing prospects to take a look at today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, you just said it.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
You know, I've been coming to the combine a little
bit now because I'm getting old dudes too, and I
haven't seen a delay like that often. And I was
thinking to myself, what's going on? And we both were thinking,
and I was like, oh, right, there's like one hundred
defensive linemani here and so they were trying to crank
them all through. I think it's forty two is the
exact number. And you know, Elliot Wolf, we're going to
(01:08):
get to him in a second. That was right off
the bat. You know, one of the things that he
said is a strength of this class is the defensive
line in the front seven talent. So whether the Patriots
addressed early with an Abdul Carter or something like that,
or it's later on in the draft, there starter caliber
talent at all. Three days of the draft on the
defensive front.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Pretty exciting. Well, let's not waste any time. Let's get
right into Elliot Wolf. He spoke first at the podium
and then he came and join us for a brief interview.
So we're gonna roll that right now. There'll be plenty
to talk about right after all. Right, we're excited to
be joined by Elliot Wolf. Now, Elliott, thanks for sitting
down with us again, second year in a row.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, I appreciate it. So you just set up with
the podium. This is your thirty first combine.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I'm just curious, what is a fourteen year old Elliott
Wolf doing at the combine?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Are you going to Elmo's? Are you timing guys? Forties? Like,
what was that experience like for you as a kid. Yeah,
it was really cool.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I mean, you know, obviously having the advantage of my
father working in the business like I was. I was
the spoiled brat that was running around here kind of
doing whatever I wanted. I would be with him, going
to workouts time in forties. As I got a little
bit older, I was a sandwich guy. I would go
and get everyone sandwiches before they sold food in the dome.
So you know, I kind of started at the bottom
in that regard. But you know, I recorded the broad
(02:13):
Jumps for a number of years. As a matter of fact,
one year they lost the official recording and I was
the only person over there recording the broad Jumps. So
I actually actually used my records to get out to
all the other the other teams.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So Clarious it's been good. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, here we are thirty one years later, right, you know,
just generally, how how are things been going? You know,
raybel coming in and you you know, kind of merging
all that together, the processes and you know, new regime
in place.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it's been good.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
So, you know, I didn't I knew Mike a little
bit beforehand, you know, bumping into Prote's he was always
the guy at the prode. He had the big chest
protector on, like beating onlineman trying to see how hard
they hit. So I you know, I kind of knew him,
but I had never had like a meaningful conversation with
him until, you know, until the interview process, and it's
it's been really good. Like he's so genuine and authentic.
He has a vision for the team, none of it's
(03:01):
fluff or bs, Like I'm really encouraged and excited to
be working with them.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, well that Evan Grillian because we're already talking about you.
Just want to talk prospects with you. Yeah, I'll start
with free agency, then we'll get a little bit into
the draft.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Though.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Just with free agency, you often hear that you fill
needs in free agency and you go best player available
in the draft is like the old cliche.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Do you adhere to that cliche or whatever you want
to call it? Yeah, I don't know if it's a cliche.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I mean I think I think it gives you the
most flexibility, you know, the free agency class obviously has
strengths and weaknesses, as does the draft. But you know,
the more holes you can fill in free agency and
the more depth you can add to the roster, you know,
it gives you a little bit more flexibility.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
When you look at number four. You mentioned up at
the podium earlier that not as much clarity. We've kicked
this around that last year. We kind of thought quarterback
right now is a little bit more ambiguity there. What
do you see with the number four overall pick in
this draft at the top in terms of talent?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Yeah, I mean I think we'll see again. I'm not
sure what's going to happen in front of us, you know,
not sure what way we'll lean again. You know, we
have the whole free agency period, trade all these other
you know, avenues to acquire talent.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
How much is it about patients, because I feel like
we look at all these big name free agents that
are available, and you say, but then you could maybe
go to the draft and get an edge there, and
you know, how much do you you kind of get
a plan? But I think, as you said on the podium,
you have to be ready to kind of adjust and
attack a two different courts.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, it's absolutely all about adjusting.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
I mean, you know, we may have someone right after
I you know, I get off the podcast here that
that you know from another team that says, hey, this
guy's available now, and you just it's it's about being
prepared and open and ready to explore everything to improve
the roster.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Obviously, you want to improve the roster everywhere, but there
are there a few positions in particular that you look
at that say we really need to address these.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Yeah, I mean I think the Lions are the ones
that stand out offensive line, defensive line. And again, as
I as I said at the podium, it's you know,
everyone talks about the Super Bowl, you know, but Philadelphia's
had a really good offensive and defensive line for a
number of years. Kansas City has two that you know,
they just weren't able to get it done in the end.
But again, it's all about the offensive and defensive line,
and it has been for a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Along those lines, we heard from the defense line today.
The linebacker's really good class.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
It seems like.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
From your perspective, how do you delineate I mean, you
have big space eaters inside you've got penetrators. You've got
you know, guys who really stout against the run on
the edge, but maybe not pass rush. Yet you got
guys that are pure pass rush. There's just so many
different flavors of guys in the front. I'm sure that
the coaching staff has maybe a style that they're looking
for as well, But how do you separate all that out?
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Well, I mean, I think the one thing that coach
talks about a lot, and he's you know, he's kind
of drilled into the scouts so far as his play demeanor,
like who's going hard, who's given effort, who's running the ball,
who's playing physical, who's willing to put their face on somebody,
use their hands, counter all those things. So, you know,
that's just something that that maybe separates whatever style they are,
that separates them and makes them more attractive to us.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It's about the player, not the scheme. I mean that
that seems we talked to Mike yesterday. She seemed like,
let's find the guys them will kind of adjust to what.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Yeah, ultimately, I mean there's you know, there's probably a
handful of players that wouldn't fit what the vision for
the defense wants. To be. But you know, within that,
you know, it's it's about the players, and I feel
confident in Mike, you know, not that I've worked with
them for a long time, but seeing what he did
in Tennessee and Treill Williams with the d line, like
a lot of those guys would improve, you know, just
as a scout watching those guys, so we're confident that
(06:11):
they'll be able to make whoever we bring in work.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
When you look at the market and start talking about
wide receivers and that coverage dictating number one guy, you know,
what do you see available out there? Do you feel
like you guys can address that and maybe bring one
of those types of players in here.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Yeah, I mean I think I think it's about getting
good players. Like I don't know that you know how
many players are going to be available that fit the
bill that you're talking about. But again, you know there's
plenty of areas to improve, and that would be one
of them.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
You mentioned some of the depth that I think the
offensive line and a wide receiver positions kind of in
the middle of the draft. Is it hard to count
on those guys? Are those when you're getting to that,
you know, late Day two early day three? Are you
just trying to get guys you like their traits? But
is it hard to count on those guys to really
come in and make an instant impact.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I think so. I think it can be tough to
count on those guys from day one.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Again, it's about you know, the draft isn't judge in
one year, but you know, to say that we're not
gonna fill this need because we'll just pick a guy
in the fifth round, Like, I don't think that's very realistic.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
All right, So what's Elliottoll's official stance on arm length?
Speaker 5 (07:08):
My official stance on arm length is it's a tool,
just like any tool that we use to you know, again,
it all comes back to the film. So and I
know you know Mike said this, but but Coach Belichick
was big on this too. It's like there's plenty of
guys that have long arms, but they play like this
and the guys that can maximize their length. And to me,
when you're writing a scouting report, it's more advantageous, like
(07:29):
you can write to the guys good length, but the extension,
the punch that he plays with is more important than
the actual number.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, it makes sense and just with Travis Hunter. I
wanted to ask you about him specifically because I find
it so fascinating that it is it almost like evaluating
two separate players because he can play two different positions.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Like, how do you kind of scout him? It is?
Speaker 5 (07:48):
You know, not to give anything away, but Matt grow
actually wrote two separate YEA scouting reports on it when
he went to Colorado this year. He has one wide
receiver report and one corner report. Now he's the only
one that did that. Everyone else kind of tried to
jam everything into the the space that we had. But
you know, it's tough when you're when you're talking about
a player that does so many different things to try
to fit in.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
There, try to match it up, like how would Travis
Hunter the receiver do against Travis Hunter?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Exact exactly exactly. Well, if I don't want to cut it,
if you've got any.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
More in there, that's all right, and I'm good.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
We love we love this stuff, We love the combine,
we love seeing all these players. So thanks for sitting
down and providing some insight.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
With all right, no proble appreciate it. Thanks, thanks all.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Right, So great stuff from Elliott our second year in row.
We got to chat with him. Forty one years of
the combine. That's pretty pretty crazy. This is my fifth
year thirty one. Sorry thirty one. I mean to get
too much, but this is my fifth and it's it's
already feeling like a lot. But Evan, what what stood
out to you most? I mean some great nuggets in
there from Elliott. Yeah, there were great nuggets.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I think the biggest thing he said that the trenches
on both sides of the ball when we asked him
about off season needs. And I always think that's interesting,
Like we talk a lot about off season needs, but
is that really how they talk? You know? So that's
why I threw that question at him, and he said
the line of scrimmage. And he was quick to say,
it's not just the super Bowl like this has been
a this is football, right, that's where it's won and lost.
(08:58):
And we'll get to some of the problem specs today
that talked at the podium on the defensive line. But
that's a big part of this offseason for both head
coach Mike Rabel and Elliott Wolf is we need to
nail the trenches and it's a great place to start.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, it's where it starts sore football games are one, folks.
That's what that at least that's what they tell me. Yeah,
just to point out though, you know, when Elliott did
go up to the podium, which you can watch that
full podium session as well on Patriots dot Com. You know,
really just accepting responsibility. Not good enough last year, four
wins didn't get enough out of the draft class. I
thought some interesting things about Jalen Polk felt like, you know,
maybe they put too much on him. You know, again,
(09:34):
a guy that I just even we're kind of conflicted
on him, I feel like, because I really liked him
when I first started, and then I think when they
took him where they took him, I was a little
bit like, I don't know about that, but even saying
that he felt like Leyden Robinson maybe played a little
bit more than they thought he would have to.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I mean, interesting nugget there as well.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I don't think that they've abandoned all hope on
that draft class, and I certainly haven't either. As I've
said on Patriots Unfiltered, they could just get one of
those guys between Kayden Wallace, Leyden Robinson or you know,
even some of the guys from the earlier year city,
so they could just get contribution to have them locked
down one spot. I think they'd be in a pretty
good spot then to go and you know, hopefully in
free agency in the draft, add even more talent to
(10:11):
that offensive line. Right.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
I think one of the answers that he gave was
about how they didn't do enough in free agency and
then the draft. And I think that's a way to
put it, because a free agency to me is your
floor of your roster, Like how do you get enough
players in here that are NFL starting caliber type of
players so that when you get to the draft, you're
just drafting best player available and stacking real talent at
(10:34):
the top of the board, especially like where the Patriots are.
So when you look at the Patriots last season, it
felt like in the offseason they left the door open
that the draft is going to kind of have to
come in and rescue the day. Right, Like it was
gonna the quarter spot to be the quarterback was gonna
have to hit, they were gonna have to hit on
a top flight wide receiver, They're gonna have to hit
on a left tackle. Because all these things kind of
(10:56):
slipped through the cracks for them in free agencies. So
looking at it this time around, my expectation is to
follow more of that Commander's model of let's go out
and get like eight to ten guys that we know
can play in this league at this level. And yeah,
maybe the tackle we sign isn't going to be the
next Joe Thomas and he's not going to be a
(11:16):
Hall of Famer, But we'll go in the draft and
we'll draft for upside, and we'll draft for talent, and
hopefully we can develop a long term solution at some
of these positions.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
In the draft.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
The other thing I got to bring up, great question
from you just about Travis Hunter, and yeah, nice little
nugget there from Elliott about them, you know, writing up
two separate scouting reports from Travis Hunter. That's a really
cool way to kind of go about it. And I mean,
it just illustrates what a special player he is. I'm
sure if he were to fall the four, it seems
to me like that that will be pretty much a
no brainer.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Yeah. I mean Andrew Berry the Browns GM yesterday, I
said that he used him as a wide receiver. The
Titans general manager said a corner Elliott said that he
can play both ways. He thinks in the NFL, there's
a scenario there. So there's all different answers across the
board of where he best fits. And I love that nugget,
and I think that's fascinating that you basically have to
treat him as two separate players and look at it
(12:04):
that direction.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And it's gonna be so interesting to me.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
When we talked to Travis Hunter later this week, what's
his message like, is he locked down to one position
or at least majoring in one position already, He's gonna
work out what the corner is the defensive back. So
maybe that's a little bit of a tea leave of
where this is headed. But I do think there are
people that believe that he can be a better wide receiver,
at least be a good enough wide receiver that it's
(12:28):
worth it to pay him on that side.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Of the ball.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So he's one of two big names to the top
of the draft that we always kind of talk about.
It's him and Abdul Carter. Abdul Carter kick things off
this morning, bright and early eight am.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We were here to here from Abdul Carter.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
The thing I've noticed Evan this being my fifth combine
is some guys just project You're like, this is a
dude who can play in the league, And you know,
even if you did never watch him play, you could
probably walk through here and be like, yeah, he can play,
he can play, And certainly abdul Carter just gave that
vibe off of a dude who can play and who's
gonna help a team.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I mean like the tape speaks for itself with him,
he is a fantastic athlete. I think the one thing
that you look at when you watch a guy like
abdel Carter is you want to see the guys that
move differently, and he's just one of those guys that
just moves differently. He's a different breed of athlete than
a lot of other players in this draft in particular.
But I thought was really interesting from what he said
(13:18):
is that his favorite player that he tries to emulate
his game after is Von Miller. He gets a lot
of Michael Parsons comparisons, Number eleven, Penn State, like that
whole thing, but he seems to feel like he more
looks like Von Miller, Like that's who he tries to
emulate his game after. So I thought that was interesting
because I can definitely see that comparison as well.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Talk about some of these other guys, I gotta mention
I brought them up before, but the two Georgia guys again,
they just have the vibe of dudes who can play
in the league. I'm talking about Mikel Williams and Jalen Walker. Yep,
they all sound the same. I mean there's like Trayvon
Walker a couple of years ago, Jalen Walker, yeah, always,
but those two guys to me and different guys I feel.
And even Mikel Williams said he felt like he's more
(13:59):
of a defensive end, probably more of a handdown that
kind of a player, whereas Jalen Walker saying, hey, where
do you want me to play?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
You want to be playing the slot?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
You want me to play on the edge, off the ball,
wherever they need to put him, And it's a pipe
dream of mine. But I'm like, I just thick those
two guys on the defense right now for the Patriots.
They've fit in great, you know, but those two guys
really stood out to me. And as I think Philadelphia
approved in the Super Bowl, you can't go wrong drafting
guys from Georgia.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, so, Jalen Walker I think is a top five
player in this class. He's a tremendous talent. And what
I love so much about him is that he can
play in all situations from various alignments. He said, He's
played four different positions in the Georgia defense, so he
can play off the ball, linebacker, edge rusher, in line rusher,
nickel like, he can just play anywhere and as a
(14:42):
matchup player, as a down in distance situational player as well.
When you have a head coach like Mike Rabel that
you feel good about using a player like that and
knowing how to implement his talents, You feel good about
a player like that.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
For the Patriots.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Mikel Williams I think is interesting too, just because of
Trell Williams, the Patriots defensive coordinator. His background isn't developing
defensive lineman. It's an aggressive defensive lineman and coaching those
guys up and all that kind of stuff. And Mikel
Williams right now is a ball of clay.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You know, he's a little raw.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
His hand technique and his hand fighting needs some work,
and he kind of needs a plan when he rushes
the passer that he doesn't have right now, but every
five plays you just see him do something freaky like
where you're just like, okay, well there it is.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Last thing on him.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
The Georgia defensive front, they play a lot of five technique,
as we know around here, a defensive ends so straight
up over the tackle, and when you play over the tackle,
you're not going to get as many sacks as the
guys that are playing from the seven or the nine
technique all the way outside, So they don't necessarily have
defensive ends in that system that put up gaudy sack
(15:48):
totals in college, like Treyvon Walker is another one that
had modest production at the college level, like mikel Williams.
A lot of that is because of the role in
the style of defense. It's actually pretty BELLICHICKI in the
way that Kirby's plays defense, so that you have to
take that into account too. If you're going to draft
a guy like Mike cal Williams and you're gonna put
him out wide nine in the four to three all
game long and just let him t off, he's going
(16:10):
to have a different level of production than he did
At Georgia.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
They want to stick a stick in the SEC. I
guess Texas A and M.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
But Shamar Stewart and Nick Scarton are two guys that
I just I've really gravitated towards early on watching those guys,
and both really impressed me today as well. I think, again,
those are, you know, different guys, and especially especially with Scorton,
he's just so disruptive. I mean, he's just a big
dude and again a little raw like seems like you
need to rain him in maybe a little bit. But
when you have these needs along the defensive line with
(16:37):
the Patriots, and as Elliott said, it's it's hard not
to look at every one of these guys that really
looks like they're making an impact and say, come come
to New England.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
We need these kind of guys. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
So Shamar Stewart is going to be an unbelievable tester.
I'm naming all first round picks by these. We can
get into the that, but he's going to be an
unbelievable tester. And there are some people, you know, you
read some of these guys like Dan Brugler and stuff
like that, that assume that after he works out tomorrow night,
all of a sudden everybody the top ten buzz is
going to start and just to go back to tray
(17:08):
Von Walker for a second, that's this is sort of
when that started for him.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Number one overall pick.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I don't know if Stuart's going to get all the
way up there, but it just sounds like to me
that this is going to be a freaky ninety ninth
percentile combine athlete that everybody's going to be like, holy crap,
Like why you know, this guy's got an immense ceiling.
So we'll see what that with scort And he's just
a ball on fire right.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, he's a state.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Of power, aggressive downhill, bring your lunch pale, you know,
type of guy. And that's obviously very attractive too. What
I like about him as well is that you can
move him around the defensive front. You know, he's not
going to be just somebody that plays on the edge.
I love, you know, the old high tower lineup over
the guard or center, use your quickness on the inside.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think Scorton can do that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Two more guys I just want to bring up Mike
Green heard from him as well, and James Pearcere kind
of guys edge rush types. But again, I think it
just illustrates the depth of this class and how many
different options there are even as you get down, you know,
into the late first round, and maybe, you know, maybe
that is an option for the Patriots trade back up,
you know, and try to grab one of these guys.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It's one question we.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Didn't get to ask elliott I Gotta make a note task.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Him next time.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
But you know, when you have these deep classes like this,
do you strike early and get the best one of
the group, or do you say there's a bunch of them,
we like them all. Yeah, you know, it's just it's
a hard way to kind of balance things.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
It is, And I find myself going back and forth
on it too, because we'll probably get to Mason Graham
here in a second as well. It's yeah, like those
are great players at the top, but the drop off
at tackle or the drop off at wide receiver might
be a lot bigger from first round to second round.
So well, Campbell to let's just use names to Arianti
(18:50):
Ursrie might be a much bigger drop off than Mason
Graham to you know, one of the guys we've been
talking about here on the defensive line.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So that had some they know you.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I do think you have to weigh a little bit
because they're going to be starters in day two on
the defensive line. There might not be starters on day
two on the offensive line, especially at left tackle.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Let's talk about Mason Graham now, because I think I
kind of polarizing. I feeling that's that's what it is,
although I don't differing opinions. Well it's I mean, look,
he's not he's not key on White. He doesn't have
the key on white. First off, the bus kind of
look to him that vibe of like, oh man, this
is a scary football team coming at us. But anybody
who watches him knows like he can play. He's a
(19:30):
fast player. And when you hear what Elliott Wolf is
saying about what Terrell Williams values, what Mike Rabel values,
it's about disruption.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It's about guys who play fast and aggressive.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And Mason Graham, even though he might not look at
when he's standing up there at podium, that's kind of
what he does. So it's on one hand, it's easy
to make the case, and on the other hand, you
look at all these other guys and you're like, yeah,
but there's other edge guys or other interior guys that
and I actually I got to take that back because
I think he's he's kind of stands alone as far
as an interior guy, but you know, edge guys off
the ball, there are some other option later.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think he's he's a really interesting guy that we're
gonna be talking a lot about these next few months.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Yeah, when we talk about number four, we always bring
up blue chip prospects, and some of the people that
we've talked to here have said that he should be
considered a blue chip prospect. I was I was kind
of surprised about that. We have Jordan Reid coming up
here later in the week and he feels that way
about Mason Graham. So he's one of those players that
if Bill Belichick was still drafting for the Patriots, I
(20:25):
feel like he would be the guy because he's not
going to be the first off the bus guy. He's
not gonna win the combine, he's not gonna do any
of the flashy things that we kind of get attracted
to sometimes this time of year. In over eight, frankly
this time of year a little bit, he's gonna be
good on tape, and he's gonna be quiet, and he's
gonna go about his business and he's gonna work hard
(20:47):
a lot like Christian Gonzalez or Keon White or somebody
like that. Now, I don't know if Frabell will you know,
gravitate towards that same style of player, because I agree
on film, you know, effort and finish for the two
big things that they preach with this you know, new regime,
and he checks both those boxes in spades, like that's
what his game is all about. But do I look
(21:09):
at him and say that's a franchise pillar, a leader
of the organization for the next decade, that sort of thing. No,
But it's also probably unfair to put that on him. Yeah,
So who else have I missed here today? Anybody else
that that that we want to talk about? I mean,
there it is.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
It is a talented class, and we touched a lot
on like the top guys, which, let's face it, maybe
they get patriots without shot at one of these, one
of these guys we're talking about, unless they trade down.
But anyone else I missed or anyone else of this
group that stands out to you, just a couple of
the linebackers, I thought, you know, we're really impressive. Jihad
Campbell from Alabama is a guy that's really fascinating to me.
I think he's going to be a really good athlete,
a really good tester here. And he's got great tape,
(21:45):
but it's streaky, you know, some games is better than others.
But I think he's got a lot of those same
Patriots style linebacker trades where he can kind of do
a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You know he can.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
He has a size in the in the play strength
and the speed, the power to play the run and
fill gaps and come downhill at the line of scrimmage.
But he can also cover and play in space. He
can rush the quarterback, he can spy the quarterback. And
although I understand we're all thinking offense, defensive line wide
receiver one, all those different type of things, having that
playmaking linebacker at the second level, I don't know if
(22:17):
they'd necessarily have that either, right, you know, and somebody
that can truly go sideline to sideline or chase down
a mobile quarterback and know when Josh Allen goes to
scramble and you know now it's first down, so you
have your run personnel on the field and you're trying
to get guys that are two hundred and fifty two
hundred and fifty five pounds to chase down Josh Allen,
this is a guy that's a really, really good athlete.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The other one Jeffrey Bossa from Oregon.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
I think that he's another guy that really stood out
to me at the podium and on film as well
as a coverage linebacker.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
He used to play safety.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Now he's going to play linebacker, off ball linebacker in
the league. He's talking about Fred Warner, of course, is
kind of like the poster child for that sort of thing.
And I think if you're looking for somebody that you
can run the scene and cover two and carry tight
ends vertical and you all that good stuff, than he's
somebody like that.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That's a lot coming at us today, but and a
lot of the draft stuff. So we're, you know, glad
to share a bunch of that draft stuff the Elliot
interview as well. But we also had a chance to
sit down with Mike Rereas of ESPN. Of course that
needs no introduction. Did the legend out Mike gees himself
to really just drill down on some of the Patriots stuff,
So you check out that interview right here. All right,
we're excited to be joined by Mike Greasi ESPN. Mike,
thanks for sitting down with us here at the Commine.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Mike Evan, great to be da.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
No introduction, I know it needs no introduction.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, I said, it might have been like back the
old blogger podcast days, the last time we had like
you for a one on one conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So thank you for that back in the day. Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
But just to start off, Mike, you know, I know
you covered Mike Rabel for a long time as a player.
What have you seen from him in the first few
months here as a coach?
Speaker 6 (23:42):
So I feel like a lot of energy, a lot
of clear vision on what he wants to do, and
I think the experience stands out to me. This is
someone that's done it before, knows the steps to take,
and it's been sort of refreshing. It's the word that
I would use.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, was what was your experience like just covering him
as a player. I mean a lot of reporters have
great stories about covering Mike Rabel.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
But what was it like for you?
Speaker 6 (24:09):
So let's start with where his spot was in the
locker room right, because that's the first thing that I
think about, is when we would all be gathered around.
So he would have been where Christian Ellis is. So
for those who are listening or watching this, this is
down close to where Teddy Bruski used to be. That's
(24:30):
the corner locker going into like the.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Meeting room right where Jawan Bentley is.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Jawan Bentley in that area. So and we would gather
around and you had to be, let's see, not sensitive
when you were gathered around Mike Rabel. You had to
be ready for the quick wit. And I would say,
not much has changed now that we're back to and
he's the coach.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
It's absolutely true. I one of the things I was
wondering with Rabel here. Obviously they have all this space.
They had a lot of caps based last off season.
We saw how that went, you know, trying to attract
free agents to come here. In your experience knowing Mike,
do you feel like he can be a great recruiter
of some of the talent that maybe is out there
and try to sway people to actually come to New England,
(25:15):
Because I, let's face it right now, I think being
a destination is something they're struggling with a little bit.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
So I do think he can be that, and for
those that are watching us, we should let them know that.
The last question that Mike took in our gathering after
the press conference on Tuesday was Evan talking about being
a recruiter, and Mike told the story I don't know
if he told it when he was on with you
guys about how he was at Houston and Houston had
(25:42):
some natural grass in their dome and Mike Rabel, who's
an assistant coach, says to Bill O'Brien, what do you
have this natural grass? And the dome for Bill O'Brien goes,
I think it'd be great for recruiting free agents, and
Rabel says to Bill O'Brien, the only green that free
agents care about is the cash. So I think the
(26:04):
cash is to use that story, the cash is the
great recruiter. But in a tiebreaker, Mike Rabel can be
a great salesperson. Yeah, and I think it's genuine Evan, Yeah,
like I do think it's genuine.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, I think that that was one of the takeaways
that I had just listening to him talk. If you
are looking for that tie breaker. This is an intense guy,
and this is a guy that you could see yourself
as an athlete playing for. And not to say that
other coaches couldn't maybe do the same thing, but there's
just between him and really Drake May Like I feel
like those are the two things in money obviously that
(26:35):
they have going for them right now. So it's been
interesting to see, you know, how he can kind of
talk and has that gravitas and a little bit of that,
you know, just appeal from a player perspective.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
And I think the other thing, if it works out
in the Patriots favor, that they have going for them
is the culture that he had established in Tennessee. So
if players hear about that and that like so Taylor Lawan, right, like,
I'm sure you followed him on X and and and
his stories about that. Will Compton, right am, I correct
(27:09):
me if I slip up here. These are players that
had experienced it, that are out there in the public,
you know, talking about what they got out of it,
even if they might have been a little skeptical at
the start, right, And so that can also be something
a player that wants to be part of that culture.
How about for us, like I know with Mike, I
(27:29):
better be sharp when I'm coming out better are my
questions ready?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah? You know.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
Like so, just as it's like raising hopefully raising your
game as a reporter someone covering the team, you want
to raise your game as a player like this guy.
This might be a guy you want to align with.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yea, Mike. We get so caught up in free agency
coming up and T Higgins and Ronnie Stanley and the
big names, and then you slowly start to heal and
all these guys are going to resign or you know,
and then you talk about the draft, and we talk
about Abdul Carter and you know, there's just a lot
of name that you get excited about.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
But throwing all the names apart.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
What does this Patriots team need? I mean, what do
they need to add personnel wise, whether it's free agency,
the draft. When you get out of the spring, what
do you want to see this team pick up?
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Well? I feel like the line of scrimmage would be
where I would start if you and and if Ronnie
Stanley comes available to me, Evan, we were talking about
this like that would be a great one to just say,
oh bam, left tackle squared away taken care of and
I thought one of the things Mike said that I
liked that I agree with the Super Bowl was one
at the line of scrimmage. I think the Patriots are
(28:31):
weak at the line of scrimmage right now, and that's
where I would start.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Yeah. He mentioned too that they wanted to try to
use free agency so that they can get to the
draft and just take the best player available, not have
to necessarily reach on a player like that. We talked
a little bit about Ronnie Stanley last night and him
potentially being available. I think the Ravens are obviously interested
in keeping him, so see where that goes. Just do
you have a sense at all though of you know,
(28:56):
some of the names that might actually get to free
agency that you would be interested in.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
So Ronnie Stanley would be at the top of my list.
Milton Williams would be another. I think the thing on
that is, what is the number right? Well, would it
go over Christian Barmore? Should it go over Christian Barmore,
that would be the next one on my list. I
don't still still considering Josh Sweat and if that would
(29:19):
be a fit, to be honest, even at the lower
financial level, I mean, would you consider judon coming back.
You know, I'm not saying I would, but like just
names like that that I've thought about and pretty much
almost everyone is at the line of scrimmage. Another one
I'd like Steph I like Stefan Diggs. I've always been
a Digs fan. I don't know what the financial level
(29:42):
on that would be, but I'd consider looking into that
one myself.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
What about when you look internally at this team and
we verybel got some questions today about scheme changes and
all those kinds of things. But you know, do you
look at this team as it is right now? And
he said it today, he said, the team's going to
look very different at the end of August. Do you
think that there's some maneuvering to be done on the
roster the guys that are already here, guys that are
under contract, meaning that they might not be around perhaps perhaps,
(30:06):
I mean, you know, I think any you know, coach
comes in, he's got to adjust things. And certainly a
lot of those players connect back to Bill and you
would think, like tough, you know, versatile players, everybody's kind
of in the market for those. But at the same time,
Mike's got his own philosophies that he's gonna come in with.
And I'm just I don't think anything needs to happen immediately,
but it feels like they really need to take inventory
of who we have and who are the guys that
(30:27):
we're going to move forward with I think so, and
also how they're going to play. So applying this conversation,
one thing Mike Vrabel said that stood out to me.
Terrell Williams is a very aggressive defensive coach. So when
I hear that, well, the defense is going to be
playing differently than it has in the past. So what
does that mean for Dietrich wise free agent? What does
that mean for Jonathan Jones?
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Mike, we're able to talk about how important the nickel
position is in today's game, Like, is.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
That Marcus Jones?
Speaker 6 (30:55):
Marcus Jones? Is it Jonathan Jones? Is it someone else?
Maybe it's it's I'm not saying DJ Reid would be
a slot, but does that make a corner? You know,
if some of your other options in free agency that
maybe are at the line on the lines don't work out,
maybe you redirect the money. So I think that's what
that's where my mind is racing, is how they'll play
(31:16):
differently on defense. I think offensively, they just need players
no matter what the scheme is. If that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yeah, I think that that Nickels spot is interesting because
I think a lot of teams nowadays are going to
more like safety body types in the nickel instead of
true corners. Because with all these like Shanahan inspired offenses,
you have the wide zone teams going outside the numbers
and trying to run to the numbers. And if you're
gonna do that, like you need to set the edge
of the defense and force the ball back inside. So
(31:45):
instead of having you know, guy like Jonathan Jones or
Marcus Jones who's undersize and isn't really going to be
able to do that, you have more like CJ. Gardner
Johnson types that can actually push the ball back inside
to the defense. So when he says nickel and he
starts talking about, you know, the importance.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Of is that guy a good blitzer?
Speaker 4 (32:01):
You know? Is that guy you know can he do
different things?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Can he cover?
Speaker 4 (32:04):
But can he do other things? That's sort of the
thing I was thinking about a little bit was Okay,
you know five foot eight Marcus Jones, five foot nine
Jonathan Jones, is that really what he's looking for in
that spot?
Speaker 6 (32:16):
Really really good discussion.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, Marty Mapu too, not necessarily in that role, but
just another guy who's been kind of, I don't want
to say miscast, but you haven't really found a home
for him yet. And he came out of nowhere last year.
That first game back played like the whole game, We're like,
where's this guy been? And I mean tapered off a
little bit. I don't, you know, but I wonder if
there's a different spot for him when we talk about
maybe linebacker position getting more mobile. When you look at
(32:38):
what they did in Tennessee. Yeah, just a lot of questions.
I mean that's the thing with Mike. He yes, he
played under Belichick here, never really coached under Belichick, worked
a lot with Romeo Crenell and Dean Ps and guys
off of that tree. Still kind of did his own
thing in Tennessee. And I think that's like our question,
which we you know, we'd asked him a little bit
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
He didn't really get into it too much.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
But how's it going to change?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
How's it going to evolve?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And I think, as you said, that defense just seems
like it's a like a piece of clay right now,
and that they're gonna have to mold it into something different.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
And I love to.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
Take viewers and listeners inside, right, So just sort of
on the same topic, but different topic. One of the
thoughts I came into this combine with was will Verrabel
commit to Mike Owenhu at guard or tackle? So we
remember Bill Belichick, he's a guard, like that's where his
body type is. I do think there's some people in
(33:27):
the front office that say, oh, a win is not
bad at tackle, Like if you look at some of
the PFF numbers, you know, they're they're sort of stack
up pretty good at tackle. And I don't know if
that's actually true. Evan, you might be able to confirm that.
But so today I'm well, let me take a try,
you know, I mean, I'm used to this with Bill Belichick.
I mean, I know the answer is probably gonna be, Oh, Mike,
(33:49):
it's you know, it's February, just twenty to get the
best twenty fifth. I mean, next time we play a
game in September, let you know, let's see how Mike
might answer it. And that one got swatted down pretty good, right,
But but he did say. I had a good conversation
with Mike ah Win.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
WHU.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
Yeah, seems like he wants to, you know, we can
improve on some things and work on, you know, being
part of this. So it was just sort of interesting
right when we talk about how things are changing scheme wise,
media wise. But took a stab at that one.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, on Wny, I feel like the best thing for
him is to play him at guard, and right now,
I feel like he's been a decent right tackle for
what else they've had on the roster right and that's
not necessarily what's best for him, but it might have
been what was best for the Patriots in that moment
in time. But every time they kind of play some
of those higher level pass rushers, he's had some issues
(34:43):
playing outside. I remember a couple of years ago, Khalil
Mack just had a monster game with him playing at
right tackle, one of the worst games I've seen on
when who play as a Patriot. And I just feel
like he's better suited at guard. But like all these
conversations about roster and you know, brings me to the
next question, which is who has final say on this roster?
Because Rabel was asked point blank who has final say today?
(35:06):
And he kind of deflected on it, I felt like,
and he didn't really give a straight answer.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Definitely one one last thing on a winner before answering
that is the thought. My thought was, well, if he
would commit to him at tackle is Trey Smith? Now
you know you want to start, you want to start
getting quality starters in there. But I'm with you, Evan,
like I think guard guard would be the ideal scenario.
Who has final say? So, here's what I believe contractually, like,
(35:34):
what is a written on the paper? Elliott Wolf has
the final say. That is what he had signed on
this contract last year, is what I understand. However, Mike
Rabel being hired as coach, comes in and is probably
(35:55):
not going to take that job if he doesn't have
assurances that he's going to have players that he doesn't want, right,
And so I think there's a little bit of nuance
to this where if Elliott wanted to put his foot
down and said, no, you know, we're taking this guy
because I think he's the best and I don't care
that you don't want him, and this is the way
(36:15):
it's gonna be. I don't believe that that's gonna that
marriage would I don't think that's what Elliott would do.
But if that's what we're if we're gonna go by
the letter of the law like it, Elliott would probably
not be around much longer, would be my take. So
I think they'll work it out. Technically it's Elliott, but
I do believe it'll be significantly influenced by what Mike wants.
(36:36):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (36:37):
It makes sense?
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Uh, last one for me, Mike, just you know, thoughts
on the draft. Here we are at the combine again
to look at some of these guys. I know at four,
said a couple of times at three. It felt like
last year pretty straightforward. We know they're probably gonna take
a quarterback. Four feels like, you know, there's a couple
guys Carter Hunter they got through. You'd probably slam dunk them.
But otherwise it gets to be kind of curious, not
sure which way can we trade down and maximize and
(36:59):
not overdraft any buddy. And it seems like those are
the conversations we're having this year.
Speaker 6 (37:02):
Yeah, what I look for as a reporter, i'mlike, I
feel like Evan's studied a lot more than me. Mike,
you probably studied it a little bit more than me.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Is you just look for.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
Consensus among people that have studied it, and I don't
sense it outside of Carter and Hunter. Yeah, and it
makes me think, quite honestly, is that winning that last
game really hurt this franchise? Just to be honest, Yeah,
you know, And so is there a way that maybe
between now in the draft, those quarterbacks start to how
(37:31):
we view them now changes and two of them end
up within the first three picks I think would be
the best scenario for the Patriots, and then you just
take the other guy, Carter Hunter, right, And so that
that's probably my big picture takeaway right now in the draft.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
Yeah, it's a tough one because you know, I think
the next two best prospects are probably Mason Graham and
Will Campbell. But both of those guys have some flaws
to their games that don't make them quite that high
level will prospect, you know, Like the name it always
gets thrown around to me with defensive tackles is like
Quinn Williams when he came out, he was a sure fired.
This guy is gonna, yeah, gonna be like a decade
(38:10):
long Hall of Fame level talent in the league. I
don't think Mason Graham quite is at that level, whereas
I don't think Campbell's quite at Jolt's level in terms
of the tackle position. So it is a little bit
of a down year. When we talked to Elliott Wolf tomorrow,
I'm hoping to ask him about that and say, you know,
do you feel the same way, because I think that's
what a lot of the experts are saying right now,
is like the four to twelve range is not a
(38:32):
great place to be in this year's draft. And that's,
of course where right where the Patriots are. So before
we let you go, I'm gonna put you a little
bit on the spot here. Is there anything we haven't
asked you, any any scoops, any micro res info that
you can share with us.
Speaker 6 (38:46):
Well, so good. I love this on the draft. So
let's say let's say the two quarterbacks don't go, you know,
within the first three picks, and the team wants to
come up for it. I think given the whole discussion
we've had, the idea of moving back and getting another
one for next year, like I would, I would probably
endorse that today as a good move for the organization.
(39:07):
So that's sort of the big picture on that and
other stuff here in terms of scoops or not scoops,
but just stuff around around the Patriots trying to think
Alex Austen's won, like I want to hear about because
we saw that Jerem. I mean, this is we're going deep,
(39:28):
but we go you know, Jeremiah Farms signed the two
year as the exclusive rights free agent, which basically was
him giving up the restricted free agent year next year.
I want, I'm curious what Alex is going to do,
and I think there's probably some discussion there as to
how to handle that. Does he just want to take
this year as an exclusive rights free agent and roll
it into restricted free agency or could they somehow reach
(39:51):
something that maybe is in the middle where he's willing
to give up restricted free agency become unrestricted a couple
years from because I think fairly promising player.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It could be a.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Thought he came on at the end last year.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I mean a little bit of a decision to make.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Maybe with Jonathan Jones as a free agent, and you know,
Austin can maybe plan the outside a little bit.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Yeah, I feel like we've been clamoring for size opposite Gonzales,
right because somebody that can actually play full time on
the perimeter. And I think he's done a nice job
when given the opportunities and when healthy and all that
kind of stuff. And you know, we're abel talked about
let's not go to the draft with all these needs,
and if they don't bring Austin back and they don't
bring Jonathan Jones back, now, all of a sudden, perimeter
(40:29):
corners is a pretty big need, and so I have
another need to fill, right, And so that that's a
tough one to be in. That's a good one.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
And another thing that he said that I particularly liked
was on Sirius XM NFL Radio. We talked about last
year's draft class. And I think because outside of Drake,
you didn't get much from the draft class. Is that
fair to say? And I think we have a tendency,
or at least I do, to just write those players
off Jalen Polk, Caden Wallace, Javon Baker, Leyden Robinson probably
(40:59):
to a lesser let me gave you something, but well
he talked to He used the word revitalizing that draft class,
and I do think there's something to that, like did
they just draft bad players or was there something that happened,
and Vrabel talking about how he spoke to those players
and said, we hear about the sophomore slump, but let's
(41:19):
call this the freshman fifteen. Yeah, and you know, and
I thought that was really good because so much it's
not You don't just draft a player and that player
is great in your system. You draft them and develop them.
And so I think what he's talking about I believe
in and I want to see how they do it.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Absolutely great stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Well, Mike Grease, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 6 (41:37):
Mike, great to be here.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Guys. All right, Well, I think that's going to wrap
up day two. I guess these days are going to
start to blend together a little bit. But we got
cornerbacks safeties on tap tomorrow will finish out the defensive
side of the ball.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Anything you're looking forward tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Not huge positions in need, but I think he always
could be in the market for a cornerback, right, Yeah.
I mean, like Traves Hunter is going to talk so
that that in itself is going to be worth the
price of admission.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And I mean, this is such a unique player.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
And I just come back to what Elliott said about
the Patriots writing up two separate reports about him one
at corner at one receiver. I've never seen anything like
that or heard of anything like that before, so fascinated
to see when he gets to the podium.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
What position does he want to play?
Speaker 4 (42:17):
He's gonna get grilled about it, right, And does he
say I want to play both ways? Don't draft me
unless you're gonna play me both ways? Or is he
gonna favor one.
Speaker 6 (42:24):
Position or the other?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Well, Travis Hunter Thursday coming up tomorrow. Of course, we'll
be back here with the podcast to get you guys
caught up with everything that goes down here at the
Scott to Combin
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to the NFL Draft, hosted.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
By the writers of Patriots dot Com. From now until
you here the New England Patriots Swidge, the countdown is on.
Welcome to the Patriots Draft Countdown, presented by bud Light.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Welcome everybody who are coming to you from day two
of the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. This is Patriots
Draft Countdown presented by bud Light. Bud Light Easy to Drink,
Easy to Enjoy, the official beer sponsor of the New
England Patriots. And a lot going on today, Evan. We
heard from Elliott Wolfe. We heard from the defensive front seven,
a really stacked position group here in this draft class,
which I was excited about. Things got a little delayed
(00:40):
at times, but otherwise it was pretty smooth sailing. A
lot of appealing prospects to take a look at today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, you just said it.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
You know, I've been coming to the combine a little
bit now because I'm getting old dudes too, and I
haven't seen a delay like that often. And I was
thinking to myself, what's going on? And we both were thinking,
and I was like, oh, right, there's like one hundred
defensive linemani here and so they were trying to crank
them all through. I think it's forty two is the
exact number. And you know, Elliot Wolf, we're going to
(01:08):
get to him in a second. That was right off
the bat. You know, one of the things that he
said is a strength of this class is the defensive
line in the front seven talent. So whether the Patriots
addressed early with an Abdul Carter or something like that,
or it's later on in the draft, there starter caliber
talent at all. Three days of the draft on the
defensive front.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Pretty exciting. Well, let's not waste any time. Let's get
right into Elliot Wolf. He spoke first at the podium
and then he came and join us for a brief interview.
So we're gonna roll that right now. There'll be plenty
to talk about right after all. Right, we're excited to
be joined by Elliot Wolf. Now, Elliott, thanks for sitting
down with us again, second year in a row.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, I appreciate it. So you just set up with
the podium. This is your thirty first combine.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I'm just curious, what is a fourteen year old Elliott
Wolf doing at the combine?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Are you going to Elmo's? Are you timing guys? Forties? Like,
what was that experience like for you as a kid. Yeah,
it was really cool.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I mean, you know, obviously having the advantage of my
father working in the business like I was. I was
the spoiled brat that was running around here kind of
doing whatever I wanted. I would be with him, going
to workouts time in forties. As I got a little
bit older, I was a sandwich guy. I would go
and get everyone sandwiches before they sold food in the dome.
So you know, I kind of started at the bottom
in that regard. But you know, I recorded the broad
(02:13):
Jumps for a number of years. As a matter of fact,
one year they lost the official recording and I was
the only person over there recording the broad Jumps. So
I actually actually used my records to get out to
all the other the other teams.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So Clarious it's been good. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah, here we are thirty one years later, right, you know,
just generally, how how are things been going? You know,
raybel coming in and you you know, kind of merging
all that together, the processes and you know, new regime
in place.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, it's been good.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
So, you know, I didn't I knew Mike a little
bit beforehand, you know, bumping into Prote's he was always
the guy at the prode. He had the big chest
protector on, like beating onlineman trying to see how hard
they hit. So I you know, I kind of knew him,
but I had never had like a meaningful conversation with
him until, you know, until the interview process, and it's
it's been really good. Like he's so genuine and authentic.
He has a vision for the team, none of it's
(03:01):
fluff or bs, Like I'm really encouraged and excited to
be working with them.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, well that Evan Grillian because we're already talking about you.
Just want to talk prospects with you. Yeah, I'll start
with free agency, then we'll get a little bit into
the draft.
Speaker 5 (03:12):
Though.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Just with free agency, you often hear that you fill
needs in free agency and you go best player available
in the draft is like the old cliche.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Do you adhere to that cliche or whatever you want
to call it? Yeah, I don't know if it's a cliche.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
I mean I think I think it gives you the
most flexibility, you know, the free agency class obviously has
strengths and weaknesses, as does the draft. But you know,
the more holes you can fill in free agency and
the more depth you can add to the roster, you know,
it gives you a little bit more flexibility.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
When you look at number four. You mentioned up at
the podium earlier that not as much clarity. We've kicked
this around that last year. We kind of thought quarterback
right now is a little bit more ambiguity there. What
do you see with the number four overall pick in
this draft at the top in terms of talent?
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Yeah, I mean I think we'll see again. I'm not
sure what's going to happen in front of us, you know,
not sure what way we'll lean again. You know, we
have the whole free agency period, trade all these other
you know, avenues to acquire talent.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
How much is it about patients, because I feel like
we look at all these big name free agents that
are available, and you say, but then you could maybe
go to the draft and get an edge there, and
you know, how much do you you kind of get
a plan? But I think, as you said on the podium,
you have to be ready to kind of adjust and
attack a two different courts.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, it's absolutely all about adjusting.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
I mean, you know, we may have someone right after
I you know, I get off the podcast here that
that you know from another team that says, hey, this
guy's available now, and you just it's it's about being
prepared and open and ready to explore everything to improve
the roster.
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Obviously, you want to improve the roster everywhere, but there
are there a few positions in particular that you look
at that say we really need to address these.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Yeah, I mean I think the Lions are the ones
that stand out offensive line, defensive line. And again, as
I as I said at the podium, it's you know,
everyone talks about the Super Bowl, you know, but Philadelphia's
had a really good offensive and defensive line for a
number of years. Kansas City has two that you know,
they just weren't able to get it done in the end.
But again, it's all about the offensive and defensive line,
and it has been for a long time.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Along those lines, we heard from the defense line today.
The linebacker's really good class.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
It seems like.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
From your perspective, how do you delineate I mean, you
have big space eaters inside you've got penetrators. You've got
you know, guys who really stout against the run on
the edge, but maybe not pass rush. Yet you got
guys that are pure pass rush. There's just so many
different flavors of guys in the front. I'm sure that
the coaching staff has maybe a style that they're looking
for as well, But how do you separate all that out?
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Well, I mean, I think the one thing that coach
talks about a lot, and he's you know, he's kind
of drilled into the scouts so far as his play demeanor,
like who's going hard, who's given effort, who's running the ball,
who's playing physical, who's willing to put their face on somebody,
use their hands, counter all those things. So, you know,
that's just something that that maybe separates whatever style they are,
that separates them and makes them more attractive to us.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
It's about the player, not the scheme. I mean that
that seems we talked to Mike yesterday. She seemed like,
let's find the guys them will kind of adjust to what.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Yeah, ultimately, I mean there's you know, there's probably a
handful of players that wouldn't fit what the vision for
the defense wants. To be. But you know, within that,
you know, it's it's about the players, and I feel
confident in Mike, you know, not that I've worked with
them for a long time, but seeing what he did
in Tennessee and Treill Williams with the d line, like
a lot of those guys would improve, you know, just
as a scout watching those guys, so we're confident that
(06:11):
they'll be able to make whoever we bring in work.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
When you look at the market and start talking about
wide receivers and that coverage dictating number one guy, you know,
what do you see available out there? Do you feel
like you guys can address that and maybe bring one
of those types of players in here.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Yeah, I mean I think I think it's about getting
good players. Like I don't know that you know how
many players are going to be available that fit the
bill that you're talking about. But again, you know there's
plenty of areas to improve, and that would be one
of them.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
You mentioned some of the depth that I think the
offensive line and a wide receiver positions kind of in
the middle of the draft. Is it hard to count
on those guys? Are those when you're getting to that,
you know, late Day two early day three? Are you
just trying to get guys you like their traits? But
is it hard to count on those guys to really
come in and make an instant impact.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
I think so. I think it can be tough to
count on those guys from day one.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
You know.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
Again, it's about you know, the draft isn't judge in
one year, but you know, to say that we're not
gonna fill this need because we'll just pick a guy
in the fifth round, Like, I don't think that's very realistic.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
All right, So what's Elliottoll's official stance on arm length?
Speaker 5 (07:08):
My official stance on arm length is it's a tool,
just like any tool that we use to you know, again,
it all comes back to the film. So and I
know you know Mike said this, but but Coach Belichick
was big on this too. It's like there's plenty of
guys that have long arms, but they play like this
and the guys that can maximize their length. And to me,
when you're writing a scouting report, it's more advantageous, like
(07:29):
you can write to the guys good length, but the extension,
the punch that he plays with is more important than
the actual number.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, it makes sense and just with Travis Hunter. I
wanted to ask you about him specifically because I find
it so fascinating that it is it almost like evaluating
two separate players because he can play two different positions.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Like, how do you kind of scout him? It is?
Speaker 5 (07:48):
You know, not to give anything away, but Matt grow
actually wrote two separate YEA scouting reports on it when
he went to Colorado this year. He has one wide
receiver report and one corner report. Now he's the only
one that did that. Everyone else kind of tried to
jam everything into the the space that we had. But
you know, it's tough when you're when you're talking about
a player that does so many different things to try
to fit in.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
There, try to match it up, like how would Travis
Hunter the receiver do against Travis Hunter?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Exact exactly exactly. Well, if I don't want to cut it,
if you've got any.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
More in there, that's all right, and I'm good.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
We love we love this stuff, We love the combine,
we love seeing all these players. So thanks for sitting
down and providing some insight.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
With all right, no proble appreciate it. Thanks, thanks all.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Right, So great stuff from Elliott our second year in row.
We got to chat with him. Forty one years of
the combine. That's pretty pretty crazy. This is my fifth
year thirty one. Sorry thirty one. I mean to get
too much, but this is my fifth and it's it's
already feeling like a lot. But Evan, what what stood
out to you most? I mean some great nuggets in
there from Elliott. Yeah, there were great nuggets.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I think the biggest thing he said that the trenches
on both sides of the ball when we asked him
about off season needs. And I always think that's interesting,
Like we talk a lot about off season needs, but
is that really how they talk? You know? So that's
why I threw that question at him, and he said
the line of scrimmage. And he was quick to say,
it's not just the super Bowl like this has been
a this is football, right, that's where it's won and lost.
(08:58):
And we'll get to some of the problem specs today
that talked at the podium on the defensive line. But
that's a big part of this offseason for both head
coach Mike Rabel and Elliott Wolf is we need to
nail the trenches and it's a great place to start.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, it's where it starts sore football games are one, folks.
That's what that at least that's what they tell me. Yeah,
just to point out though, you know, when Elliott did
go up to the podium, which you can watch that
full podium session as well on Patriots dot Com. You know,
really just accepting responsibility. Not good enough last year, four
wins didn't get enough out of the draft class. I
thought some interesting things about Jalen Polk felt like, you know,
maybe they put too much on him. You know, again,
(09:34):
a guy that I just even we're kind of conflicted
on him, I feel like, because I really liked him
when I first started, and then I think when they
took him where they took him, I was a little
bit like, I don't know about that, but even saying
that he felt like Leyden Robinson maybe played a little
bit more than they thought he would have to.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I mean, interesting nugget there as well.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I don't think that they've abandoned all hope on
that draft class, and I certainly haven't either. As I've
said on Patriots Unfiltered, they could just get one of
those guys between Kayden Wallace, Leyden Robinson or you know,
even some of the guys from the earlier year city,
so they could just get contribution to have them locked
down one spot. I think they'd be in a pretty
good spot then to go and you know, hopefully in
free agency in the draft, add even more talent to
(10:11):
that offensive line. Right.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
I think one of the answers that he gave was
about how they didn't do enough in free agency and
then the draft. And I think that's a way to
put it, because a free agency to me is your
floor of your roster, Like how do you get enough
players in here that are NFL starting caliber type of
players so that when you get to the draft, you're
just drafting best player available and stacking real talent at
(10:34):
the top of the board, especially like where the Patriots are.
So when you look at the Patriots last season, it
felt like in the offseason they left the door open
that the draft is going to kind of have to
come in and rescue the day. Right, Like it was
gonna the quarter spot to be the quarterback was gonna
have to hit, they were gonna have to hit on
a top flight wide receiver, They're gonna have to hit
on a left tackle. Because all these things kind of
(10:56):
slipped through the cracks for them in free agencies. So
looking at it this time around, my expectation is to
follow more of that Commander's model of let's go out
and get like eight to ten guys that we know
can play in this league at this level. And yeah,
maybe the tackle we sign isn't going to be the
next Joe Thomas and he's not going to be a
(11:16):
Hall of Famer, But we'll go in the draft and
we'll draft for upside, and we'll draft for talent, and
hopefully we can develop a long term solution at some
of these positions.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
In the draft.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
The other thing I got to bring up, great question
from you just about Travis Hunter, and yeah, nice little
nugget there from Elliott about them, you know, writing up
two separate scouting reports from Travis Hunter. That's a really
cool way to kind of go about it. And I mean,
it just illustrates what a special player he is. I'm
sure if he were to fall the four, it seems
to me like that that will be pretty much a
no brainer.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Yeah. I mean Andrew Berry the Browns GM yesterday, I
said that he used him as a wide receiver. The
Titans general manager said a corner Elliott said that he
can play both ways. He thinks in the NFL, there's
a scenario there. So there's all different answers across the
board of where he best fits. And I love that nugget,
and I think that's fascinating that you basically have to
treat him as two separate players and look at it
(12:04):
that direction.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
And it's gonna be so interesting to me.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
When we talked to Travis Hunter later this week, what's
his message like, is he locked down to one position
or at least majoring in one position already, He's gonna
work out what the corner is the defensive back. So
maybe that's a little bit of a tea leave of
where this is headed. But I do think there are
people that believe that he can be a better wide receiver,
at least be a good enough wide receiver that it's
(12:28):
worth it to pay him on that side.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Of the ball.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So he's one of two big names to the top
of the draft that we always kind of talk about.
It's him and Abdul Carter. Abdul Carter kick things off
this morning, bright and early eight am.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We were here to here from Abdul Carter.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
The thing I've noticed Evan this being my fifth combine
is some guys just project You're like, this is a
dude who can play in the league, And you know,
even if you did never watch him play, you could
probably walk through here and be like, yeah, he can play,
he can play, And certainly abdul Carter just gave that
vibe off of a dude who can play and who's
gonna help a team.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
I mean like the tape speaks for itself with him,
he is a fantastic athlete. I think the one thing
that you look at when you watch a guy like
abdel Carter is you want to see the guys that
move differently, and he's just one of those guys that
just moves differently. He's a different breed of athlete than
a lot of other players in this draft in particular.
But I thought was really interesting from what he said
(13:18):
is that his favorite player that he tries to emulate
his game after is Von Miller. He gets a lot
of Michael Parsons comparisons, Number eleven, Penn State, like that
whole thing, but he seems to feel like he more
looks like Von Miller, Like that's who he tries to
emulate his game after. So I thought that was interesting
because I can definitely see that comparison as well.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Talk about some of these other guys, I gotta mention
I brought them up before, but the two Georgia guys again,
they just have the vibe of dudes who can play
in the league. I'm talking about Mikel Williams and Jalen Walker. Yep,
they all sound the same. I mean there's like Trayvon
Walker a couple of years ago, Jalen Walker, yeah, always,
but those two guys to me and different guys I feel.
And even Mikel Williams said he felt like he's more
(13:59):
of a defensive end, probably more of a handdown that
kind of a player, whereas Jalen Walker saying, hey, where
do you want me to play?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
You want to be playing the slot?
Speaker 3 (14:05):
You want me to play on the edge, off the ball,
wherever they need to put him, And it's a pipe
dream of mine. But I'm like, I just thick those
two guys on the defense right now for the Patriots.
They've fit in great, you know, but those two guys
really stood out to me. And as I think Philadelphia
approved in the Super Bowl, you can't go wrong drafting
guys from Georgia.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, so, Jalen Walker I think is a top five
player in this class. He's a tremendous talent. And what
I love so much about him is that he can
play in all situations from various alignments. He said, He's
played four different positions in the Georgia defense, so he
can play off the ball, linebacker, edge rusher, in line rusher,
nickel like, he can just play anywhere and as a
(14:42):
matchup player, as a down in distance situational player as well.
When you have a head coach like Mike Rabel that
you feel good about using a player like that and
knowing how to implement his talents, You feel good about
a player like that.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
For the Patriots.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Mikel Williams I think is interesting too, just because of
Trell Williams, the Patriots defensive coordinator. His background isn't developing
defensive lineman. It's an aggressive defensive lineman and coaching those
guys up and all that kind of stuff. And Mikel
Williams right now is a ball of clay.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
You know, he's a little raw.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
His hand technique and his hand fighting needs some work,
and he kind of needs a plan when he rushes
the passer that he doesn't have right now, but every
five plays you just see him do something freaky like
where you're just like, okay, well there it is.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Last thing on him.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
The Georgia defensive front, they play a lot of five technique,
as we know around here, a defensive ends so straight
up over the tackle, and when you play over the tackle,
you're not going to get as many sacks as the
guys that are playing from the seven or the nine
technique all the way outside, So they don't necessarily have
defensive ends in that system that put up gaudy sack
(15:48):
totals in college, like Treyvon Walker is another one that
had modest production at the college level, like mikel Williams.
A lot of that is because of the role in
the style of defense. It's actually pretty BELLICHICKI in the
way that Kirby's plays defense, so that you have to
take that into account too. If you're going to draft
a guy like Mike cal Williams and you're gonna put
him out wide nine in the four to three all
game long and just let him t off, he's going
(16:10):
to have a different level of production than he did
At Georgia.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
They want to stick a stick in the SEC. I
guess Texas A and M.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
But Shamar Stewart and Nick Scarton are two guys that
I just I've really gravitated towards early on watching those guys,
and both really impressed me today as well. I think, again,
those are, you know, different guys, and especially especially with Scorton,
he's just so disruptive. I mean, he's just a big
dude and again a little raw like seems like you
need to rain him in maybe a little bit. But
when you have these needs along the defensive line with
(16:37):
the Patriots, and as Elliott said, it's it's hard not
to look at every one of these guys that really
looks like they're making an impact and say, come come
to New England.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
We need these kind of guys. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
So Shamar Stewart is going to be an unbelievable tester.
I'm naming all first round picks by these. We can
get into the that, but he's going to be an
unbelievable tester. And there are some people, you know, you
read some of these guys like Dan Brugler and stuff
like that, that assume that after he works out tomorrow night,
all of a sudden everybody the top ten buzz is
going to start and just to go back to tray
(17:08):
Von Walker for a second, that's this is sort of
when that started for him.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Number one overall pick.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
I don't know if Stuart's going to get all the
way up there, but it just sounds like to me
that this is going to be a freaky ninety ninth
percentile combine athlete that everybody's going to be like, holy crap,
Like why you know, this guy's got an immense ceiling.
So we'll see what that with scort And he's just
a ball on fire right.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, he's a state.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
Of power, aggressive downhill, bring your lunch pale, you know,
type of guy. And that's obviously very attractive too. What
I like about him as well is that you can
move him around the defensive front. You know, he's not
going to be just somebody that plays on the edge.
I love, you know, the old high tower lineup over
the guard or center, use your quickness on the inside.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think Scorton can do that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Two more guys I just want to bring up Mike
Green heard from him as well, and James Pearcere kind
of guys edge rush types. But again, I think it
just illustrates the depth of this class and how many
different options there are even as you get down, you know,
into the late first round, and maybe, you know, maybe
that is an option for the Patriots trade back up,
you know, and try to grab one of these guys.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
It's one question we.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Didn't get to ask elliott I Gotta make a note task.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Him next time.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
But you know, when you have these deep classes like this,
do you strike early and get the best one of
the group, or do you say there's a bunch of them,
we like them all. Yeah, you know, it's just it's
a hard way to kind of balance things.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
It is, And I find myself going back and forth
on it too, because we'll probably get to Mason Graham
here in a second as well. It's yeah, like those
are great players at the top, but the drop off
at tackle or the drop off at wide receiver might
be a lot bigger from first round to second round.
So well, Campbell to let's just use names to Arianti
(18:50):
Ursrie might be a much bigger drop off than Mason
Graham to you know, one of the guys we've been
talking about here on the defensive line.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So that had some they know you.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
I do think you have to weigh a little bit
because they're going to be starters in day two on
the defensive line. There might not be starters on day
two on the offensive line, especially at left tackle.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Let's talk about Mason Graham now, because I think I
kind of polarizing. I feeling that's that's what it is,
although I don't differing opinions. Well it's I mean, look,
he's not he's not key on White. He doesn't have
the key on white. First off, the bus kind of
look to him that vibe of like, oh man, this
is a scary football team coming at us. But anybody
who watches him knows like he can play. He's a
(19:30):
fast player. And when you hear what Elliott Wolf is
saying about what Terrell Williams values, what Mike Rabel values,
it's about disruption.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
It's about guys who play fast and aggressive.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And Mason Graham, even though he might not look at
when he's standing up there at podium, that's kind of
what he does. So it's on one hand, it's easy
to make the case, and on the other hand, you
look at all these other guys and you're like, yeah,
but there's other edge guys or other interior guys that
and I actually I got to take that back because
I think he's he's kind of stands alone as far
as an interior guy, but you know, edge guys off
the ball, there are some other option later.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think he's he's a really interesting guy that we're
gonna be talking a lot about these next few months.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Yeah, when we talk about number four, we always bring
up blue chip prospects, and some of the people that
we've talked to here have said that he should be
considered a blue chip prospect. I was I was kind
of surprised about that. We have Jordan Reid coming up
here later in the week and he feels that way
about Mason Graham. So he's one of those players that
if Bill Belichick was still drafting for the Patriots, I
(20:25):
feel like he would be the guy because he's not
going to be the first off the bus guy. He's
not gonna win the combine, he's not gonna do any
of the flashy things that we kind of get attracted
to sometimes this time of year. In over eight, frankly
this time of year a little bit, he's gonna be
good on tape, and he's gonna be quiet, and he's
gonna go about his business and he's gonna work hard
(20:47):
a lot like Christian Gonzalez or Keon White or somebody
like that. Now, I don't know if Frabell will you know,
gravitate towards that same style of player, because I agree
on film, you know, effort and finish for the two
big things that they preach with this you know, new regime,
and he checks both those boxes in spades, like that's
what his game is all about. But do I look
(21:09):
at him and say that's a franchise pillar, a leader
of the organization for the next decade, that sort of thing. No,
But it's also probably unfair to put that on him. Yeah,
So who else have I missed here today? Anybody else
that that that we want to talk about? I mean,
there it is.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
It is a talented class, and we touched a lot
on like the top guys, which, let's face it, maybe
they get patriots without shot at one of these, one
of these guys we're talking about, unless they trade down.
But anyone else I missed or anyone else of this
group that stands out to you, just a couple of
the linebackers, I thought, you know, we're really impressive. Jihad
Campbell from Alabama is a guy that's really fascinating to me.
I think he's going to be a really good athlete,
a really good tester here. And he's got great tape,
(21:45):
but it's streaky, you know, some games is better than others.
But I think he's got a lot of those same
Patriots style linebacker trades where he can kind of do
a little bit of everything.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You know he can.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
He has a size in the in the play strength
and the speed, the power to play the run and
fill gaps and come downhill at the line of scrimmage.
But he can also cover and play in space. He
can rush the quarterback, he can spy the quarterback. And
although I understand we're all thinking offense, defensive line wide
receiver one, all those different type of things, having that
playmaking linebacker at the second level, I don't know if
(22:17):
they'd necessarily have that either, right, you know, and somebody
that can truly go sideline to sideline or chase down
a mobile quarterback and know when Josh Allen goes to
scramble and you know now it's first down, so you
have your run personnel on the field and you're trying
to get guys that are two hundred and fifty two
hundred and fifty five pounds to chase down Josh Allen,
this is a guy that's a really, really good athlete.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The other one Jeffrey Bossa from Oregon.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
I think that he's another guy that really stood out
to me at the podium and on film as well
as a coverage linebacker.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
He used to play safety.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Now he's going to play linebacker, off ball linebacker in
the league. He's talking about Fred Warner, of course, is
kind of like the poster child for that sort of thing.
And I think if you're looking for somebody that you
can run the scene and cover two and carry tight
ends vertical and you all that good stuff, than he's
somebody like that.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
That's a lot coming at us today, but and a
lot of the draft stuff. So we're, you know, glad
to share a bunch of that draft stuff the Elliot
interview as well. But we also had a chance to
sit down with Mike Rereas of ESPN. Of course that
needs no introduction. Did the legend out Mike gees himself
to really just drill down on some of the Patriots stuff,
So you check out that interview right here. All right,
we're excited to be joined by Mike Greasi ESPN. Mike,
thanks for sitting down with us here at the Commine.
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Mike Evan, great to be da.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
No introduction, I know it needs no introduction.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, I said, it might have been like back the
old blogger podcast days, the last time we had like
you for a one on one conversation.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So thank you for that back in the day. Uh.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
But just to start off, Mike, you know, I know
you covered Mike Rabel for a long time as a player.
What have you seen from him in the first few
months here as a coach?
Speaker 6 (23:42):
So I feel like a lot of energy, a lot
of clear vision on what he wants to do, and
I think the experience stands out to me. This is
someone that's done it before, knows the steps to take,
and it's been sort of refreshing. It's the word that
I would use.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, was what was your experience like just covering him
as a player. I mean a lot of reporters have
great stories about covering Mike Rabel.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
But what was it like for you?
Speaker 6 (24:09):
So let's start with where his spot was in the
locker room right, because that's the first thing that I
think about, is when we would all be gathered around.
So he would have been where Christian Ellis is. So
for those who are listening or watching this, this is
down close to where Teddy Bruski used to be. That's
(24:30):
the corner locker going into like the.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Meeting room right where Jawan Bentley is.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Jawan Bentley in that area. So and we would gather
around and you had to be, let's see, not sensitive
when you were gathered around Mike Rabel. You had to
be ready for the quick wit. And I would say,
not much has changed now that we're back to and
he's the coach.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
It's absolutely true. I one of the things I was
wondering with Rabel here. Obviously they have all this space.
They had a lot of caps based last off season.
We saw how that went, you know, trying to attract
free agents to come here. In your experience knowing Mike,
do you feel like he can be a great recruiter
of some of the talent that maybe is out there
and try to sway people to actually come to New England,
(25:15):
Because I, let's face it right now, I think being
a destination is something they're struggling with a little bit.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
So I do think he can be that, and for
those that are watching us, we should let them know that.
The last question that Mike took in our gathering after
the press conference on Tuesday was Evan talking about being
a recruiter, and Mike told the story I don't know
if he told it when he was on with you
guys about how he was at Houston and Houston had
(25:42):
some natural grass in their dome and Mike Rabel, who's
an assistant coach, says to Bill O'Brien, what do you
have this natural grass? And the dome for Bill O'Brien goes,
I think it'd be great for recruiting free agents, and
Rabel says to Bill O'Brien, the only green that free
agents care about is the cash. So I think the
(26:04):
cash is to use that story, the cash is the
great recruiter. But in a tiebreaker, Mike Rabel can be
a great salesperson. Yeah, and I think it's genuine Evan, Yeah,
like I do think it's genuine.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Yeah, I think that that was one of the takeaways
that I had just listening to him talk. If you
are looking for that tie breaker. This is an intense guy,
and this is a guy that you could see yourself
as an athlete playing for. And not to say that
other coaches couldn't maybe do the same thing, but there's
just between him and really Drake May Like I feel
like those are the two things in money obviously that
(26:35):
they have going for them right now. So it's been
interesting to see, you know, how he can kind of
talk and has that gravitas and a little bit of that,
you know, just appeal from a player perspective.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
And I think the other thing, if it works out
in the Patriots favor, that they have going for them
is the culture that he had established in Tennessee. So
if players hear about that and that like so Taylor Lawan, right, like,
I'm sure you followed him on X and and and
his stories about that. Will Compton, right am, I correct
(27:09):
me if I slip up here. These are players that
had experienced it, that are out there in the public,
you know, talking about what they got out of it,
even if they might have been a little skeptical at
the start, right, And so that can also be something
a player that wants to be part of that culture.
How about for us, like I know with Mike, I
(27:29):
better be sharp when I'm coming out better are my
questions ready?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah? You know.
Speaker 6 (27:33):
Like so, just as it's like raising hopefully raising your
game as a reporter someone covering the team, you want
to raise your game as a player like this guy.
This might be a guy you want to align with.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yea, Mike. We get so caught up in free agency
coming up and T Higgins and Ronnie Stanley and the
big names, and then you slowly start to heal and
all these guys are going to resign or you know,
and then you talk about the draft, and we talk
about Abdul Carter and you know, there's just a lot
of name that you get excited about.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
But throwing all the names apart.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
What does this Patriots team need? I mean, what do
they need to add personnel wise, whether it's free agency,
the draft. When you get out of the spring, what
do you want to see this team pick up?
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Well? I feel like the line of scrimmage would be
where I would start if you and and if Ronnie
Stanley comes available to me, Evan, we were talking about
this like that would be a great one to just say,
oh bam, left tackle squared away taken care of and
I thought one of the things Mike said that I
liked that I agree with the Super Bowl was one
at the line of scrimmage. I think the Patriots are
(28:31):
weak at the line of scrimmage right now, and that's
where I would start.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Yeah. He mentioned too that they wanted to try to
use free agency so that they can get to the
draft and just take the best player available, not have
to necessarily reach on a player like that. We talked
a little bit about Ronnie Stanley last night and him
potentially being available. I think the Ravens are obviously interested
in keeping him, so see where that goes. Just do
you have a sense at all though of you know,
(28:56):
some of the names that might actually get to free
agency that you would be interested in.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
So Ronnie Stanley would be at the top of my list.
Milton Williams would be another. I think the thing on
that is, what is the number right? Well, would it
go over Christian Barmore? Should it go over Christian Barmore,
that would be the next one on my list. I
don't still still considering Josh Sweat and if that would
(29:19):
be a fit, to be honest, even at the lower
financial level, I mean, would you consider judon coming back.
You know, I'm not saying I would, but like just
names like that that I've thought about and pretty much
almost everyone is at the line of scrimmage. Another one
I'd like Steph I like Stefan Diggs. I've always been
a Digs fan. I don't know what the financial level
(29:42):
on that would be, but I'd consider looking into that
one myself.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
What about when you look internally at this team and
we verybel got some questions today about scheme changes and
all those kinds of things. But you know, do you
look at this team as it is right now? And
he said it today, he said, the team's going to
look very different at the end of August. Do you
think that there's some maneuvering to be done on the
roster the guys that are already here, guys that are
under contract, meaning that they might not be around perhaps perhaps,
(30:06):
I mean, you know, I think any you know, coach
comes in, he's got to adjust things. And certainly a
lot of those players connect back to Bill and you
would think, like tough, you know, versatile players, everybody's kind
of in the market for those. But at the same time,
Mike's got his own philosophies that he's gonna come in with.
And I'm just I don't think anything needs to happen immediately,
but it feels like they really need to take inventory
of who we have and who are the guys that
(30:27):
we're going to move forward with I think so, and
also how they're going to play. So applying this conversation,
one thing Mike Vrabel said that stood out to me.
Terrell Williams is a very aggressive defensive coach. So when
I hear that, well, the defense is going to be
playing differently than it has in the past. So what
does that mean for Dietrich wise free agent? What does
that mean for Jonathan Jones?
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Mike, we're able to talk about how important the nickel
position is in today's game, Like, is.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
That Marcus Jones?
Speaker 6 (30:55):
Marcus Jones? Is it Jonathan Jones? Is it someone else?
Maybe it's it's I'm not saying DJ Reid would be
a slot, but does that make a corner? You know,
if some of your other options in free agency that
maybe are at the line on the lines don't work out,
maybe you redirect the money. So I think that's what
that's where my mind is racing, is how they'll play
(31:16):
differently on defense. I think offensively, they just need players
no matter what the scheme is. If that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yeah, I think that that Nickels spot is interesting because
I think a lot of teams nowadays are going to
more like safety body types in the nickel instead of
true corners. Because with all these like Shanahan inspired offenses,
you have the wide zone teams going outside the numbers
and trying to run to the numbers. And if you're
gonna do that, like you need to set the edge
of the defense and force the ball back inside. So
(31:45):
instead of having you know, guy like Jonathan Jones or
Marcus Jones who's undersize and isn't really going to be
able to do that, you have more like CJ. Gardner
Johnson types that can actually push the ball back inside
to the defense. So when he says nickel and he
starts talking about, you know, the importance.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Of is that guy a good blitzer?
Speaker 4 (32:01):
You know? Is that guy you know can he do
different things?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Can he cover?
Speaker 4 (32:04):
But can he do other things? That's sort of the
thing I was thinking about a little bit was Okay,
you know five foot eight Marcus Jones, five foot nine
Jonathan Jones, is that really what he's looking for in
that spot?
Speaker 6 (32:16):
Really really good discussion.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Yeah, Marty Mapu too, not necessarily in that role, but
just another guy who's been kind of, I don't want
to say miscast, but you haven't really found a home
for him yet. And he came out of nowhere last year.
That first game back played like the whole game, We're like,
where's this guy been? And I mean tapered off a
little bit. I don't, you know, but I wonder if
there's a different spot for him when we talk about
maybe linebacker position getting more mobile. When you look at
(32:38):
what they did in Tennessee. Yeah, just a lot of questions.
I mean that's the thing with Mike. He yes, he
played under Belichick here, never really coached under Belichick, worked
a lot with Romeo Crenell and Dean Ps and guys
off of that tree. Still kind of did his own
thing in Tennessee. And I think that's like our question,
which we you know, we'd asked him a little bit
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
He didn't really get into it too much.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
But how's it going to change?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
How's it going to evolve?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And I think, as you said, that defense just seems
like it's a like a piece of clay right now,
and that they're gonna have to mold it into something different.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
And I love to.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
Take viewers and listeners inside, right, So just sort of
on the same topic, but different topic. One of the
thoughts I came into this combine with was will Verrabel
commit to Mike Owenhu at guard or tackle? So we
remember Bill Belichick, he's a guard, like that's where his
body type is. I do think there's some people in
(33:27):
the front office that say, oh, a win is not
bad at tackle, Like if you look at some of
the PFF numbers, you know, they're they're sort of stack
up pretty good at tackle. And I don't know if
that's actually true. Evan, you might be able to confirm that.
But so today I'm well, let me take a try,
you know, I mean, I'm used to this with Bill Belichick.
I mean, I know the answer is probably gonna be, Oh, Mike,
(33:49):
it's you know, it's February, just twenty to get the
best twenty fifth. I mean, next time we play a
game in September, let you know, let's see how Mike
might answer it. And that one got swatted down pretty good, right,
But but he did say. I had a good conversation
with Mike ah Win.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
WHU.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
Yeah, seems like he wants to, you know, we can
improve on some things and work on, you know, being
part of this. So it was just sort of interesting
right when we talk about how things are changing scheme wise,
media wise. But took a stab at that one.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, on Wny, I feel like the best thing for
him is to play him at guard, and right now,
I feel like he's been a decent right tackle for
what else they've had on the roster right and that's
not necessarily what's best for him, but it might have
been what was best for the Patriots in that moment
in time. But every time they kind of play some
of those higher level pass rushers, he's had some issues
(34:43):
playing outside. I remember a couple of years ago, Khalil
Mack just had a monster game with him playing at
right tackle, one of the worst games I've seen on
when who play as a Patriot. And I just feel
like he's better suited at guard. But like all these
conversations about roster and you know, brings me to the
next question, which is who has final say on this roster?
Because Rabel was asked point blank who has final say today?
(35:06):
And he kind of deflected on it, I felt like,
and he didn't really give a straight answer.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
Definitely one one last thing on a winner before answering
that is the thought. My thought was, well, if he
would commit to him at tackle is Trey Smith? Now
you know you want to start, you want to start
getting quality starters in there. But I'm with you, Evan,
like I think guard guard would be the ideal scenario.
Who has final say? So, here's what I believe contractually, like,
(35:34):
what is a written on the paper? Elliott Wolf has
the final say. That is what he had signed on
this contract last year, is what I understand. However, Mike
Rabel being hired as coach, comes in and is probably
(35:55):
not going to take that job if he doesn't have
assurances that he's going to have players that he doesn't want, right,
And so I think there's a little bit of nuance
to this where if Elliott wanted to put his foot
down and said, no, you know, we're taking this guy
because I think he's the best and I don't care
that you don't want him, and this is the way
(36:15):
it's gonna be. I don't believe that that's gonna that
marriage would I don't think that's what Elliott would do.
But if that's what we're if we're gonna go by
the letter of the law like it, Elliott would probably
not be around much longer, would be my take. So
I think they'll work it out. Technically it's Elliott, but
I do believe it'll be significantly influenced by what Mike wants.
(36:36):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 4 (36:37):
It makes sense?
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Uh, last one for me, Mike, just you know, thoughts
on the draft. Here we are at the combine again
to look at some of these guys. I know at four,
said a couple of times at three. It felt like
last year pretty straightforward. We know they're probably gonna take
a quarterback. Four feels like, you know, there's a couple
guys Carter Hunter they got through. You'd probably slam dunk them.
But otherwise it gets to be kind of curious, not
sure which way can we trade down and maximize and
(36:59):
not overdraft any buddy. And it seems like those are
the conversations we're having this year.
Speaker 6 (37:02):
Yeah, what I look for as a reporter, i'mlike, I
feel like Evan's studied a lot more than me. Mike,
you probably studied it a little bit more than me.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Is you just look for.
Speaker 6 (37:10):
Consensus among people that have studied it, and I don't
sense it outside of Carter and Hunter. Yeah, and it
makes me think, quite honestly, is that winning that last
game really hurt this franchise? Just to be honest, Yeah,
you know, And so is there a way that maybe
between now in the draft, those quarterbacks start to how
(37:31):
we view them now changes and two of them end
up within the first three picks I think would be
the best scenario for the Patriots, and then you just
take the other guy, Carter Hunter, right, And so that
that's probably my big picture takeaway right now in the draft.
Speaker 4 (37:48):
Yeah, it's a tough one because you know, I think
the next two best prospects are probably Mason Graham and
Will Campbell. But both of those guys have some flaws
to their games that don't make them quite that high
level will prospect, you know, Like the name it always
gets thrown around to me with defensive tackles is like
Quinn Williams when he came out, he was a sure fired.
This guy is gonna, yeah, gonna be like a decade
(38:10):
long Hall of Fame level talent in the league. I
don't think Mason Graham quite is at that level, whereas
I don't think Campbell's quite at Jolt's level in terms
of the tackle position. So it is a little bit
of a down year. When we talked to Elliott Wolf tomorrow,
I'm hoping to ask him about that and say, you know,
do you feel the same way, because I think that's
what a lot of the experts are saying right now,
is like the four to twelve range is not a
(38:32):
great place to be in this year's draft. And that's,
of course where right where the Patriots are. So before
we let you go, I'm gonna put you a little
bit on the spot here. Is there anything we haven't
asked you, any any scoops, any micro res info that
you can share with us.
Speaker 6 (38:46):
Well, so good. I love this on the draft. So
let's say let's say the two quarterbacks don't go, you know,
within the first three picks, and the team wants to
come up for it. I think given the whole discussion
we've had, the idea of moving back and getting another
one for next year, like I would, I would probably
endorse that today as a good move for the organization.
(39:07):
So that's sort of the big picture on that and
other stuff here in terms of scoops or not scoops,
but just stuff around around the Patriots trying to think
Alex Austen's won, like I want to hear about because
we saw that Jerem. I mean, this is we're going deep,
(39:28):
but we go you know, Jeremiah Farms signed the two
year as the exclusive rights free agent, which basically was
him giving up the restricted free agent year next year.
I want, I'm curious what Alex is going to do,
and I think there's probably some discussion there as to
how to handle that. Does he just want to take
this year as an exclusive rights free agent and roll
it into restricted free agency or could they somehow reach
(39:51):
something that maybe is in the middle where he's willing
to give up restricted free agency become unrestricted a couple
years from because I think fairly promising player.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
It could be a.
Speaker 3 (40:00):
Thought he came on at the end last year.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I mean a little bit of a decision to make.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Maybe with Jonathan Jones as a free agent, and you know,
Austin can maybe plan the outside a little bit.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Yeah, I feel like we've been clamoring for size opposite Gonzales,
right because somebody that can actually play full time on
the perimeter. And I think he's done a nice job
when given the opportunities and when healthy and all that
kind of stuff. And you know, we're abel talked about
let's not go to the draft with all these needs,
and if they don't bring Austin back and they don't
bring Jonathan Jones back, now, all of a sudden, perimeter
(40:29):
corners is a pretty big need, and so I have
another need to fill, right, And so that that's a
tough one to be in. That's a good one.
Speaker 6 (40:36):
And another thing that he said that I particularly liked
was on Sirius XM NFL Radio. We talked about last
year's draft class. And I think because outside of Drake,
you didn't get much from the draft class. Is that
fair to say? And I think we have a tendency,
or at least I do, to just write those players
off Jalen Polk, Caden Wallace, Javon Baker, Leyden Robinson probably
(40:59):
to a lesser let me gave you something, but well
he talked to He used the word revitalizing that draft class,
and I do think there's something to that, like did
they just draft bad players or was there something that happened,
and Vrabel talking about how he spoke to those players
and said, we hear about the sophomore slump, but let's
(41:19):
call this the freshman fifteen. Yeah, and you know, and
I thought that was really good because so much it's
not You don't just draft a player and that player
is great in your system. You draft them and develop them.
And so I think what he's talking about I believe
in and I want to see how they do it.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Absolutely great stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Well, Mike Grease, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 6 (41:37):
Mike, great to be here.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
Guys. All right, Well, I think that's going to wrap
up day two. I guess these days are going to
start to blend together a little bit. But we got
cornerbacks safeties on tap tomorrow will finish out the defensive
side of the ball.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Anything you're looking forward tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Not huge positions in need, but I think he always
could be in the market for a cornerback, right, Yeah.
I mean, like Traves Hunter is going to talk so
that that in itself is going to be worth the
price of admission.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And I mean, this is such a unique player.
Speaker 4 (42:02):
And I just come back to what Elliott said about
the Patriots writing up two separate reports about him one
at corner at one receiver. I've never seen anything like
that or heard of anything like that before, so fascinated
to see when he gets to the podium.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
What position does he want to play?
Speaker 4 (42:17):
He's gonna get grilled about it, right, And does he
say I want to play both ways? Don't draft me
unless you're gonna play me both ways? Or is he
gonna favor one.
Speaker 6 (42:24):
Position or the other?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Well, Travis Hunter Thursday coming up tomorrow. Of course, we'll
be back here with the podcast to get you guys
caught up with everything that goes down here at the
Scott to Combin
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com