February 29, 2024 • 31 mins
Mike Dussault and Evan Lazar are joined by ESPN’s Matt Miller to talk options for the upcoming 2024 NFL Draft at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Lazar, Dussault and Miller discuss the best prospects that could be available for the New England Patriots, including Georgia TE Brock Bowers and S Javon Bullard, Ohio State WR Marvin Harrison Jr. and LSU WR Malik Nabers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome into another edition of Patriots Draft Countdown, presented by
bud Light, bud Light Easy to Drink, Easy to Enjoy,
the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots, and Evan.
We're here day three of the combine. We're still grinding
through these guys. We saw the safeties, the cornerbacks, and
finally we got to the offense, the tight ends. This
is a long podcast version here, We're gonna break all
these guys down, really going to depth here. Let's start
(00:21):
at the top though, with the biggest need, which is
of course tight end. I mean, the Patriots don't really
have anybody on the roster officially right now that played
last year. I think we'd both maybe make the argument
Hunter Henry, there's not a lot of options out there
in free agency.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Resign him.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
He's been a great contributor. Yeah, bring him back and
at least establish a baseline. But we saw these guys
here today, not a big class, only two groups of
tight ends, not like last year's class, which just seemed
absolutely loaded. What stood out to you overall, just starting
at the top from this tight end class.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Well, that was the first thing.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
And not to crap all over this class or anything
like that, but it was just a sheer volume or
lack thereof in this tight end group. I mean, we
only had two groups go up to the podium today
and I'm just looking at it on your shoet.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
You can tell it small?
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
We got a team guys?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Maybe?
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Yeah, not even It's just it's a smaller group. If
there's not a ton of depth in this class, there's
really two prizes. I would say brock Bowers is in
a tier of his own. He's number one. I do
want to talk a little bit about our thoughts on
brock Bauers and how it makes sense doesn't make sense
for them. But I think when you start to get
into the other guys, you're looking at guys that are
(01:22):
more uh, just have specific roles that they might fill,
versus guys that are gonna come in and be high
impact three down, you know, type of players. I think
the only other titand that I would put in that
high impact category is probably Jatavian Sanders from Texas. But
then you get into the Ben Siddens and the Theo
Johnson and the cade Stovers, and I think those guys
(01:44):
are going to have roles on NFL teams, but they
might not be a Day one impact starter type of
player at the position yet.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Don't forget Jared Wiley from TCU or one of our
one of our favorites as well.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But let me ask you this, Steven.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I mean, you know, we talk a little bit about, like,
you know, trading down, is that really an option? Not really,
it doesn't seem.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Like it at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But if they were to trade down, and we talked
so much about they need to weaponize the offense, you know,
is somebody like Brock Powers, does that count?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Does that count as weaponized it?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Because I'm sure I'd say Rob Gronkowski, he sure was
a weapon, you know, not to make that comparison, but
it seems like that maybe would make sense if they
were to trade down, and he's kind of sitting there
in the twelve thirteen range something in there, maybe a
little higher.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
So when I watch Brock Bowers on film, I see
a lot of George Kittle and someone that can block,
that can catch the ball, that can create after the
catch and stretch the field vertically with his speed.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
He's a very.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Fast tight end and someone I think could time in
the four fives in the forty yard dash. I don't
know if he's running, but if he does run, I
think he's going to time very very well. So he's
got vertical speed, he's got the actability, he's got blocking ability.
Maybe not the true hand in the dirt Rob Gronenkowski.
This is an extra tackle type of blocking. But if
you get him on an island into space where the
(02:52):
dB with a linebacker and just ask him to seal, he's.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Extremely effective at that.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
So in a lot of respects, I do all the
things that I do said, it opens up a lot
for your offense because he's basically a receiver, but he
also can block, so he's got that flexibility to be
in line detached. That's a very scheme versatile and a
very dynamic player. But I think for the Patriots, you
have to ask yourself how much does that necessarily move
(03:17):
the needle and how much is it going to really
make that Day one impact. So I just don't necessarily
see the path for brock Bauers with New England, But
there are teams in the top ten. The Chargers I
think look like a great fit for him. That's someone
that could really come in and make a huge impact.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
You talk about Alex van Pelt and the offense that
you know he ran in Cleveland, and we know he's
been a lot of different places, so he's you know,
it's not necessarily going to be exactly what it was
in Cleveland, But you know, how do you feel between
taking a.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Developmental hy tight end.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
You know, somebody who you're coping can get strong enough
to really handle it all?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Maybe not.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You know, sometimes those guys are hard because they're not
always the most explosive. But then there's always guys that
are just a typical F. And look, we're not going
to ask you to block. We're gonna you know, go
back to Gronk and Hernandez. You know, it was kind
of like the perfect pairing with Hernandez and his ability
to get open. So, you know, just philosophically, how do
you feel about, Yeah, you might not get brock Bauers,
who's going to be hopefully that prototypical why tight end,
(04:10):
But maybe you can take an F on day two
or three who can come in.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
We're not gonna ask too much of you, but you
can come in and contribute to this offense and make
some place.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
That's the way I look at Jatavian Sanders as of
right now, I don't think that you're doing You're doing
him a little bit of a disservice by asking him
to put his hand in the dirt and kick out
a nine technique, right like, this is not really.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Gonna be his game.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But at the same time, if you get that player
into space, if you get that player down the field,
he's going to create chunk play after chunk play after
chunk play.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And that's exactly what he did at Texas.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
You know, looking at that Texas offense, they have Zavian
Worthy on the outside, they have Adi Mitchell on the
other side, and there's all this space in the middle
of the field, and Jatavian standards consistently made defenses pay
for overloading the outside guys. And I think that that's
somebody that could fit really well into this Alex fan
Pelt offense. As much as you think about they want
to run the ball, they want to be a run
(05:02):
first offense, I think there's so much misdirection to their
run game, and there's so much variety to the way
that they run the ball that it's not necessarily that
you need to have that Gronkowski blocking tight end. I
think that there are that ability to are We're gonna
run wide zone and he's gonna then bootleg off of it,
so you can't, you know, over commit to the run,
(05:24):
and and that helps them block a little bit, like
it's not as much of that. We're just coming right
at you, and we need a guy that's gonna be
able to block that way. So I don't think it's
necessarily a top priority for.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That tight end to be a big blocker.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, so tight end clearly big position to need. And
really they could go any which direction. You don't really
have any guys on the roster you play last year,
like I said, so they've got to make some additions
in their free agency at the draft.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Not a great class. Wish they grabbed some last year.
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, I mean, like you look at free agency, right,
and I do think there are some guys like you know,
obviously Dalton Schultz is probably gonna be the top tight end,
but even like a guy like Gerald Everett I think
is interesting just because of his ability to create after
the catch, and they're gonna run a lot, like I
just said, of bootleg misdirection, things like that. If they're
gonna be a lot of that, which is what avp's
been in the past, and just getting guys that can
(06:11):
sneak into the flats and then take a ball you
know that's a little checked down and turn it into
a twenty yard game.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Like those are the types of things that you look at.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Like we saw from Farrell Brown, who was another guy
that you know, I bring him back like a big
you know NFL veteran that can block.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I'm all for that. So they got work to do there.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Let's switch over to cornerback though, and this is you know,
an interesting position. Christening Gonzalez outstanding and what did he
play three games and change? I mean yeah, AFC Rookie
of the Month there in September. I mean, just a
huge disappointing moment when he went down in Dallas and really,
you know, he didn't get the chance to develop. We've
seen some video though, you know, we always get these
videos on Instagram. He's rehabbing, he's working out, folks, He's
gonna be okay. Jonathan Jones I thought had a great year.
(06:47):
He battled through injuries. You know, maybe has some struggles
at times, but I still think that Jonathan Jones has
that ability to be a base down outside corner. He's
gonna slide inside maybe and take you know, some of
the more shifty guys on on pure passing downs. But
you know, with Jack Jones gone now Marcus Jones coming back,
we haven't really seen him perform as you know a slot.
You know, I think he's a good like fourth corner,
you know, a second slot, like when you need a
(07:09):
specific kind of guy to cover a short person. I
think Marcus Jones could be that guy.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Still.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I still have some hope with him. But a little bit,
a little bit, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Well, you know, we saw a little bit against the
Raiders a couple of years ago, you know, but it
is what it is. He's got great quickness though, and
I think, you know, honestly, I mean, going back to
when he came out, I was always a super impressed
with how sticky he was. Yeah, like he was really
good in coverage. But enough about the guys already on
the roster. Today we saw a bunch of cornerbacks and again,
you know, there's some top rank guys that we probably
aren't going to see in Patriots uniforms.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
They got that first round pick last year.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
But you know, Cooper Degen we talked about him a
little bit on the debrief, but just kind of an
ideal Patriots fit if it were ever to fall that way.
I don't know if I'm putting a number one on
the big board this year like we did last year
with Gonzales, but he has some talent.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
The kids from Alabama too, those two guys both really talented.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, look, I mean there's not a ton of consensus
right now. I would say with the number one corner
in this class, there isn't one of those you know,
number you know top corners that's gonna go in the
top five, top ten picks most likely. I was really
impressed by Quinn and Mitchell from Toledo at the Senior Bowl.
I think he's somebody that solidified himself as a Day
one first round prospect down in Mobile. You mentioned the
(08:14):
two Alabama guys. Those guys are definitely in the conversation
as well. But Cooper de Jen's one of those players
that old regime probably all over. Cooper Degene like can
play every single spot in the back end. You can
play them at safety, you can play them at nickel,
you can play them at outside corner and he can
really just do just about everything, and then he can
also play in the kicking game.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
So that's that's a Belichick pick, you know, through and through.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
So I don't know if necessarily they're gonna go in
that direction, but looking at outside corner in general, I
think is a need having that third guy that can rotate.
In the league nowadays is so eleven personnel heavy. Everything's
three wide receiver, especially on third down, and you need
to be able to play manta man coverage on third
down against three receivers that can all play. And in
(08:57):
order to do that, the Patriots are gonna have to
look at that third a back spot. You're gonna have
Christian Gonzalez, You're gonna have Jonathan Jones. But is it
like you know, the depth chart you just went over.
So there's a couple of guys that I thought stood
out today and stood out in mobile as well. A
guy like Cam Hart from Notre Dame. Yeah, is someone
that I've looked at a lot. You know, physical outside
corner can play press man, can play in a Patriots
(09:18):
style system.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So I think that's the.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Biggest thing though for this group, is finding a third
rotational guy probably not gonna play every down, maybe more
like sixty percent of the snaps, but we always like
to call it on cash money to the Jason mccordy
role totally, who's just that safety.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Play on third down and be a critical piece.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, we mean talk about Patriots fits and one guy,
Max Meltin from Rutgers four block punts. He was really
trumpeting that at his podium session, as he should be,
mad Max. But again another guy kind of trumpeting his versatility,
like the gene the ability to play number of spots.
And I think you heard us talk earlier about how
kind of complicated it is, how it kind of could
all fit together. But when you look at a guy
with just a lot of versatility, it's just that's perfect.
(10:00):
Because somebody goes down, somebody gets hurt, you have the
ability to fill in a number of different spots.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So that was, you know, one guy that just kind
of stood out to me today.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yeah, I think that in general with this secondary I
just would look for a little bit more size personally.
Still like, look, Gonza is great and he's going to
be a number one corner, but Jonathan Jones, Marcus Jones,
maybe Alex Austin's the guy that you bring in has
the size still that's still around. But I really trusting
Alex Austin to be a guy that's gonna play a
(10:28):
significant role in this defense. And obviously I have Miles
Bryan too, is another smaller guy. So I still think
that they could use some length and size on the outside.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, I mean the the other part of too.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I mean, I'm just I'm thinking of Jawan Williams, and
of course, you know didn't work out, but.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
You know, again just a big corner that you.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Know, they've been such a matchup team in the past,
and you know, from what we've heard from DeMarcus Covington,
it sounds like a lot of the elements from the
defense will remain, you know, but I think we're expecting
there to.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Be some evolution to this defense. I don't think it's
going to be exactly what it was.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I mean, even when they changed under defensive coordinators, when
you know, we famously went from Matt Patrice to Brian
Flores and all of a sudden, it's like zero blitz
is coming at you left and right. You know, even
into Steve Belichick and jirob what they've kind of done
and kind of maintained some of that aggression. I know,
you know, we talked a lot about Steve and when
you know when to call the zero blitzers in those
things Washington will have.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
We'll have fun with that aggressive defense. We'll run under Steve.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
But I do wonder, like, you know, do they need
a bigger matchup piece? And you know, you mentioned Austin
and I'm like, was he like even he seems still
a little bit frail.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I think that's the biggest question is you know, you
know Gonzo and you hope Gonzo is gonna be that
guy that's you know, when they play the Jets, it's
gonna be Garrett Wilson, when they play the Dolphins, it's
gonna be Tyreek Hill, and they play the Bills, it's
gonna be Stefan Diggs. But who is gonna be that
second outside corner Because ideally, I think a guy like
Jonathan Jones is someone that can travel around that whether
(11:46):
it's you know, a shifty slot receiver, a speed slot receiver,
it just kind of move him around and allow him
to basically put out fires and not necessarily pigeonhole him
to one spot. Like I feel like he's almost defaulted
to the last couple of years because of injuries and
lack of depth that spot. You mentioned scheme changes and
things like that. You know, DeMarcus coming in and Drod
(12:07):
May are both front seven guys, defensive line, coach, linebacker.
Usually when you get guys like that that are running
your defense, it becomes more aggressive, like you're just you're
coming after the quarterback. You start screaming, scheming up the pressures,
you know, skimming up different looks in the pressure game.
You know, scheme pressures, creepers, things like that, and you
just start coming after the quarterback because that's what their
background is in. But the league in a lot of
(12:30):
ways is starting to trend towards a lot more split
safety coverage. And we've discussed this before, the Fangio influence
of the quarters and palms and things like that.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Is that a way that they end up going Because.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
This college game, and we're going to talk about the
safeties here, I'm sure in a second, the college game
is they don't play any post safety anymore in college
and if they do, it's like Rip Liz type stuff
where they're rotating post snap into post safety. So they
don't play a ton of single high coverage, So finding
those single high center fielders like the Devin authorities.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Is harder and harder and harder.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So in a lot of ways, supply and demand like
you can't just force guys into those roles. And I
think last year they figured it out as the year
kind of progressed. But Kyle Duggard Jabriel Pepper's kind of
playing out a position a little bit, playing up top.
So is that a spot that they look at to
Cam Kitchens or someone like that that they can play
that role or do they look to change it a
(13:22):
little bit how they do things in the back end.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So Evan, let us right into it, right, we're right
onto safeties. There we go.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You know, but I wonder too, like and this is
a little bit, you know, out of the frame of
what we're talking about right now, But you know, do
you think that maybe as we go forward with the model,
as you just laid out that transitioning cornerbacks, maybe more
zone cornerbacks who you know don't really fit your man scheme,
But if you're playing them on the back end, you're
not as worried about them matching mirroring guys in coverage,
that kind of thing. I just wonder if that's maybe
(13:48):
something to watch for, starting to take zone corners and
moving them to free safety.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I don't know, I'm just doing I'm spitball on here,
you know.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Well, it's it's one thing too. I think we talked
to DeMarcus coming to a couple of weeks ago. I
can't even remember how long that was. Delus, Yeah, it
was some time ago, and he talked about turnovers and
the one thing that you could hold against the defense
last year, as good as they played, is they didn't
turn the ball over a ton. And I look at
(14:15):
that and you think about Gonzales great man to man
mirror match corner. He's going to go and shadow a
number one receiver and he's going to be able to
carry him all over the field, which is great. But
he's not necessarily a ball hawk, which is not a
bad thing.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
It's just not his game.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
So maybe looking at that other cornerback spot free safety
as spots that you can get turnover producers, you know,
guys that can range over the top and have those
types of interceptions, or an outside corner that maybe is
a little bit more of like a zone match type
of corner that will jump routes and create interceptions.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I think in theory you're thinking about guy like J. C.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Jackson, but more in his prime, right, So I think
it's something as terms of pairing with Gonzalez is I
don't know if you necessarily want to pair Gonzalez with
another guy that's gonna just mirror and match guys all
over the field. You might want a little bit more
of a risk taker on the other side, because you
know you're gonna have the steady Eddie on the other side.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
It's a good point and so sticking with safeties.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I mean, one guy I wanted to bring up, just
from Georgia, I think we're both a little bit impressed
with him, Javon Bullard school personality just seems like, you know,
he really yeah, yeah, he just he has kind of
a spark to him. I mean sometimes, you know, we've
been doing this for a few years now and there
are certain guys and I don't know if Javon Bullet's
gonna work out. I mean, I know his game has
some some flaws in it, but he just kind of
projects the feeling of having been in NFL locker rooms
(15:31):
now for a full year or for a few years.
He kind of projects that that's that this guy can
play in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It just feels like, and you.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Just talked to so many of these guys that are
from Alabama, Georgia, Texas, like these big time programs to
see you and TC, and they they're just ready.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
They're ready to play in the league.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And they it's almost like they've been playing in the
fact like minor league NFL this entire time. It's a
little bit a step above regular college football, where the
media attention that all the did things that go into it,
the way their coaches run their programs, it's so similar
to an NFL structure that they almost feel just a
little bit more ready for this moment.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I thought that was kind of what I.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Took away from Bullard, who is a little bit undersized
in terms of his length and his height. He's more
of like a blockie, probably going to be like a
nickel or a box safety. Can play a little bit
of split safety zone as well, but not that true centerfielder.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I'm telling you the truth.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Centerfielder in this class is Cam Kitchens from Miami. If
that's the way that they want to go at the
maybe at thirty four. I think he's gonna be a
late first, early second type of guy. If they truly
feel like they need that role and they need to
fill Devin mccordy's shoes with a guy that can translate
and do those types of things, that he's the guy.
But in general, I just again, you go through the
(16:46):
group and it's just so many of it is just
the same.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
This guy's like a Kyle Duggart type.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
This guy's like a Kyle Duggart that guy type, and
it's just all these kind of box safety hybrids.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I like me those Peppers types.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So we had to chance to talk to Matt Miller
from ESPN, who just you know, he's been around forever.
He's been working his way up. He goes way back
to the bleacheryport is with me. I mean, he has
just been on the draft for over a decade now.
So I had a great conversation with him. He even
expanded a little bit. You had a chance to ask
him about this safety spot as well his impression of
the quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
He's very high on the wide receivers.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So check out this interview right now we had with
Matt Miller from ESPN. All Right, We're excited to be
joined now by Matt Miller from Matt from ESPN. Matt,
thanks for joining us here at the combine.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
I don't think I've ever done Patriots media at the
combine really normally. You know, you guys are like coming
fresh off a Super Bowl win. You're not even talking
about the draft. So I think this might be a
first one.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, you might have heard what third overall picks, so
we've got plenty to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
It's a little different too.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, So so are your most recent Monck draft. You've
got Jayden Daniels going to the Patriots. Just tell us
a little bit about that pick and what you see
the fit.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
There, which Jaden is a fantastic player.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
I think if there were an award for most improved
player in college football, he would have taken that one home,
as well as the Heisman for being the.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
Best player in college football.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
You know, the running ability is notable over twelve one
hundred yards the last two years each in the SEC.
It's not easy to do, but it's also it's the
pocket passing, it's the downfield passing. You know, my favorite
stat on him on throws over twenty yards. He had
a QBR of ninety nine point five.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
That's really really hard to do.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
He had twenty two touchdowns, zero interceptions on deep passing.
So if he's there at three overall, not sure that
he will be as of today. That mock draft is
a couple weeks old. He is a dynamic player that
I think is that type of quarterback that could put
a team on him early, just like LSU did this
past year, and he's able to elevate what's around him.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I wanted to ask you just what Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
It seems like there is some steam at least in
the media about him going too overall to the Commanders,
and I think that makes a lot of sense with
the Cliff Kingsbury there. So how do you see that
now shaking out now that you've been here for a
few days too.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Yeah, I think the Cliff kings very higher in Washington
was when my mind kind of changed as well. Of Okay,
looking at what you know, he put his job on
the line to get Kyler Murray in Arizona.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Jaden has a lot of the same qualities.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
I would argue is maybe a better runner and is
a better passer, so that definitely makes that kind of
an interesting fit.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
That's what happens.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
You know, you think you have an idea of where
guys are gonna go, and then a higher happens and
you're like, you know, then Jim Harball goes to the
Chargers and you're like, wait, that ruined my mock draft.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So why couldn't you guys have done this earlier?
Speaker 6 (19:12):
But there definitely seems to be that's the way the
wind is kind of blowing right now. You know, the
next few days are still very very important to that process.
Jayden is not throwing here, so there's not that opportunity
like a C. J. Stroud or Anthony Richardson last year
where they came and like they put a stamp on
their draft stock last year with their workouts.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
We're not gonna see that.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
So it might delay things out at least until the
middle of March when we get the LSU pro day.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Yeah, and with Drake May, it just seems like he's
become one of the more volatile prospects honestly in this draft.
Either have a lot of people that think that he's
you know, got a lot of wards, and then there's
a lot of people that look at him and see
Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, where do you kind of fallo
on that skill?
Speaker 6 (19:49):
And you know, so I would say people have forgotten
that Josh Allen and Justin Herbert had a lot of
wards coming out.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Yeah, they've turned into who they are. You know. I was.
I was the biggest Josh Allen fan in the world
when he come out of Wyoming.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
He'd had a terrible year at Wyoming that year and
a lot of people were like, Oh, I don't see
it with him. Same with Justin Herbert, it was, Oh,
he doesn't have the personality to lead a team, or
he doesn't ever run and leave the pocket. Obviously, now
we see him as a really accomplished runner in the NFL.
So I think for Drake it's a similar situation where
where he's drafted is going to matter a lot. You
want to have a good infrastructure in place for him
(20:19):
because he is a young quarterback.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
He's twenty two years old.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
He only started for two years in college and had
two different offensive coordinators, so he hasn't had a chance
to really settle in, learn and build that consistency.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
So wherever he.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
Goes, whether it be Washington at two, New England at
three or someone after that. He needs to have a
good a good setup, which almost every quarterback does. That
doesn't make him unique, but I think that's where you've
seen some of the polarization of man.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I really like the tools.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
There are times he does things and I'm scratching my
head and a lot of it just goes back to coaching,
and you hope that you can fix that once he
gets to the NFL.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Yeah, and you look at with Drake two, there's a
lot of helmet scouting. I feel like going on absolutely
where it's Mitchell Kubisky.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Sam Howell. You know those types of plays.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Is not nothing against those guys, But how different would
you say to Trubisky in particular just being a high
draft pick himself?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Is Drake May at this time?
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:08):
The funny Mitch was like the most conservative quarterback prospect
maybe ever. You know, if it wasn't there, he didn't
take it, And Drake is the opposite. He will take
things that aren't there. You know, he would make throws
that you don't want him to, which is where you
get some of the Josh Allen commp stuff. He tries
to put everything on himself. And there's some hero ball
at times, and there are times you know there's a
free blitzer coming in his face and he's going to
(21:28):
eat that tackle to make a throw that he shouldn't make.
And so very different from Trubisky, who was ultra conservative
and quite a bit bigger and more athletic than Sam
Howell was. And also, you know Sam Howe, we saw
that drop off when he didn't have the star wide
receivers around and the star running backs around him.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
We saw a big drop off.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
Drake this past year doesn't have josh Awen's new offensive coordinator.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Production Wise, there wasn't as much of a drop off.
It was just more so in some of the decision making.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I feel like that.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
You're sorry, Mike, I just I feel like the Trubisky
stuff is just so wild to me that people make.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
I don't know what we call this website anymore, but
my Twitter bio has a line that's to scout the player,
not the helmet. Yeah, because that's my biggest pet peeve
of Like, you know, imagine if you look to every
Michigan quarterback ever and was like, these guys never work out.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
We're not gonna take a flyer.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
Out of Tom Brady or LSU quarterbacks before Joe Burrow,
Ohio State quarterbacks before C. J.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Stroud.
Speaker 6 (22:19):
So it's a risky game to do that, and it's just,
you know, it's a little lazy.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I'm sure you guys could talk quarterbacks all day.
We got to talk some wide receivers.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
You know Elliot Wolfe earlier this weeks that the Patriots
have to weaponize their offense. I think we can all
agree that this offense needs to take the next step.
I know you're high on the wide receivers in this class,
of course, at the top. First of all, is there
an argument to be made for the Patriots to take
one of those guys at the top? If not, how
do you kind of see that playing out later? Where
could they get another guy?
Speaker 6 (22:42):
There's absolutely an argument to be made for that. I
think if you just look at who are the best
players in the class, you can make an argument from
Marvin Harrison Junior as the best player in the class.
Same for Elik Neighbors. That's a wide receiver at LSU.
It's funny I have Kayleb Williams one, I have Harrison too.
A duneesay four, A Neighbors three or Dunesay four. So
I have them all like right there together and all
with like this big crazy grade because they're also specialist talents.
(23:03):
So I do think, and you know, to carry on
the quarterback conversation if they are not convicted all the
way on one of the quarterbacks, this is the year
where you should just not take one. You should take
because there are superstar wide receivers. There's a left tackle
in Joe Alt who is a franchise caliber. Plug him
in for twelve years and don't worry about the position
ever again. And I think offensively, the Patriots roster is
(23:24):
in such a shape that don't force it this year.
If you don't love the quarterback who's there at three.
You could also trade back, get some draft capital, which
is needed to weaponize this offense, and you could walk
out with one of the top three receivers or the
top left tackle in the draft, which all of those
are equal needs. Obviously quarterback it takes precedent because of
the positional value, but you have needs it at all
(23:44):
your core offensive spots right now.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Any favorites for you wide receiver position day two, like
you know those later rounds.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Yeah, So I love wide receivers. That's where I get
in trouble because I like them all. At Ni Mitchell
from Texas. If he doesn't go in the first round,
it will be a travesty. But I look at my
colleagues mock drafts and he's there. I'm like, guys, what
are we doing?
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Like watch him play. He's got to be a first
round pick.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
Lad mcconkee from Georgia is another one where I use
this line all the time.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
But if we could just watch guys play football.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
And forget the work scouting for the draft for a while,
Lad McConkie would be one of your favorite players to
watch because it's just he's a technician, he's tough, he
never drops the ball, so quick in and out of
everything he does. So it's Round two wide receivers are
really really talented this year. And you know it used
to be when I was back at Bleacher Report, we
talked about, oh, round twos when you get your receivers
because of AJ Brown, because of Michael Thomas and all
(24:32):
those great round two wide receivers. Now it's become a
premium position, but you can still get exceptional value after
pick thirty two.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, I'd be pretty surprised if Ady Mitchell seems like
a guy that's back into the first round guy, and
I am surprised every time I see him sneak into
that thirty four range for the Patriots. But mentioned Laddi McConkie,
and I also wanted to ask you in a transition
to tackles to Marius Mims as well, both Georgia guys.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Both those guys had.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Injuries, haven't played a ton, haven't had a ton of production.
How do you view that as a as a scout,
as an analyst, When guys have such a small sample
size to.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
Work with, it's it's really hard. And with Mems especially,
he only started eight games in college. He had to
wait his turn for Broderick Jones, started a little bit
in twenty twenty two, finally gets to start this year,
then gets the tightrope beankal surgery, so he has to
shut down for a little while. With Mems, what I
like is those eight games might be the best eight games.
Any tackle in this class is played like that. So
it's you see the upside. That's what makes my job easier.
(25:28):
And I think for NFL coaches and scouts it's Okay,
we've seen him do this, especially in the SEC. You know,
to see you do this out of Georgia and have
that dominance for eight games, we know we can get
that from you consistently. It's not so much the highs
and lows. You know, sometimes you see guys become draft bust.
It's the highs and lows in a limited amount of time.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
With those two. It was especially with McConkey.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
I mean, it was dominance every time he was on
the field, especially when he was on the field and healthy.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Yeah, is dominant. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
That Florida game for him was just the outrageous Aye
the route running.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
For him to battle to come back in the SEC
championship game, and no, he's not hundred percent. Told me
so much about just who he is as a player
and how much he loves his teammates and his coaches
to get out there and you know, hobbling through the game,
you think like at one point it's like, oh he's
done for the game.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Nope, here he comes right back in. So his toughness
is infectious.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
So I want to ask you about Joe Alt because
I feel like we haven't talked enough about Joe Alt
a little bit here, And I think the thing with
him is that it's almost like a flavor thing with tackles.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
He's not a road grader.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
He's not necessarily the guy that has the heavy hands
it's gonna move people. But what really impressed me with
him was his footwork and his ability to mirror guys
in the past.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Rush is just exceptional.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
No, he's a finished product. He really is. And some
of that's notre Dame.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
Some of that's because his dad was a Chiefs Hall
of Famer at offensive tackle. But you're right, six '
eight three fifteen, you think this guy's gonna be a punisher. Yeah,
it's not quite his game. He's a little bit more
of a finesse player. But can you turn that on.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
You know, we've seen guys come out of college who
are road graders and they don't know how to throttle down,
you know, and so it's they're over aggressive that causes
him to be, you know, a subpar player. So I
think with him it's that, you know, are you still
able to put guys on the ground, you know, are
you are still going to get those pancake blocks? He's
still able to dominate in the run game without being
you know, overly physical.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
I think he does do that very well.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
And what he does in passport, like you said, the
footwork is he looks like he's playing in the NFL
for five years. You know, he's just a pro ready
to go right away. Like I said, he's a twelve
year starter. You plug him in and you don't worry
about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Any depth on the tackle position, though Patriots miss out
at the top, I mean they big need for them.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
They really have to replace both spots.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Yeah, so there I don't think that there is this
year because we're going to see a run like a
guy like Amarius Mems probably still goes in the first
round because of the upside. There are two good left tackles,
all Oli Fashano. The other like six tackles I think
can go in the first round are all right tackles.
So it is a little bit interesting to where maybe
someone slips through the cracks and is there at thirty four.
But it's become such a premium position and where this
(27:47):
draft is strong, you know, quarterback, wide, receiver, tackle, corner
are all positions teams are usually falling all over themselves
to get early. So I think we probably see a
run in the twenties.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, Evan, you got If you want to talk about
defensive well, I mean not in the twenties.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Doesn't mean make me feel good, because every time I do,
I do my mock draft because I'm an expert, right,
is that all? Yeah? I look at thirty four. As
you know, quarterback at three, tackle at thirty four. There's
such depth in this receiver class that you can probably
get a receiver at sixty eight that can still make
an impact. But tackle at thirty four is always tough
because there isn't somebody that I really love at that spot.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
I think a lot of teams are feeling that same way,
which is why there is that argument of you know,
there are so many clubs in the top fifteen picks
where you say, okay, they need a wide receiver and
a tackle. We'll take the tackle first and wait for
the wide receiver. That's just smart drafting at this point.
Even though we love those three receivers at the top,
you know, there are a lot of teams the Chargers
at five, or another team a lot like New England
(28:42):
where you have that argument of okay, we need both,
what do we do here? And that could be where
we see a lot of trade activity as teams say, Okay,
well we're split on this decision, let's trade back and
maybe someone will help us make the decision between the
two players.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, I just got to ask one one about defense. Sorry,
and I know I know we're all focused on but
just in.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Terms of the edge position, kind of a sneaky for
the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Just overall, how do you kind of see that class
and what's the depth kind of like in day two,
Day three developmental.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
Yeah, so there's not a guy you drafted three this
year obviously, but I think at thirty four you could
be looking at really good depth and.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Then around three.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
I think one cool thing about pass rushers is we're
starting to see teams draft for a role instead of
let's draft this guy and we expect him to play
all three downs and he's got to play eighty percent
of our snaps. Now it's you need at least three
pass rushers, and you would really like that five or six.
So you can draft guys who are maybe a little
bit undersized, like a Chop Robinson from Penn State. I
think he's definitely a play at thirty four and can
(29:34):
be that stand up pass.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Rusher with great speed. There's a ton of value in that.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
No, he's not going to be you know, your first
down right defensive end, you know, against twelve personnel, but
when it's time to go get the quarterback, he can
be that player.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I got one defensive question. I got a defensive question
that I'm a offensive guy. I just especially last year.
We don't need to watch that again. Yes, anyways, one
thing that I've thought about a lot is replacing Devin
m in the back end for this Patriots defense.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And I watched a lot of college football and it's
so much.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Quarters heavy, split safety heavy, and it's hard to find
that that true single high center fielder in this draft.
Is there anybody that can really play that post safety spot.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Absolutely. Klen Bullock from USC is that guy who has
that over the top range. She's been a ball hawk.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
Is he a great tackler? No, he's not. It's not
because he doesn't want to. It's almost like he hasn't
been taught how to be yet. So I think that's
part of his game that could still be developing. But
if I had to go with that almost center fielder
type safety in this class, it would be him, not
great well.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And Matt thanks so much for joining us. Great stuff
from Mat. Check out all his work on ESPN or
your mock rafts you got. When's the next one coming out?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
I don't know. I think in two weeks.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I'm surprised they don't have you to do one every
single day.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
I would do one every day. Is the problem. But
we have this guy named mel kaiper Junior. He takes
priority on the mock draft.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, awesome stuff. Matt, thanks so much for joining us. Yeah,
thanks big thanks to Matt for coming on and discussing.
I mean, he's just he's got this big board, he's
got everything covered, providing his you know, sharing his knowledge
with us.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
So it's always great.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That'd be great national player com sohch I love to do.
I know some fans hate him, but I love him.
And he had the same exact player com for Jayden
Daniels and for Drake May that I did Lamar Justin Herbert,
So I was like, we're on the.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Same fan best friends forever.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's gonna wrap it up for us here on leap day,
day three of the combine, and Evan's really excited because
guess what, folks, we're our full offense. Now, we're going quarterbacks,
we're going running backs, we're going wide receivers tomorrow, offensive
line on Saturday. All huge needs for the Patriots. So
we're excited to dump in. We'll have debrief, we'll have
another full podcast like this. We're looking forward to speaking
with Field Yates of ESPN as well to get his
(31:34):
perspective on this draft. So we hope you'll stick with
us this whole time. Two more days to go here
from the twenty twenty four combine in Indy,
Welcome into another edition of Patriots Draft Countdown, presented by
bud Light, bud Light Easy to Drink, Easy to Enjoy,
the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots, and Evan.
We're here day three of the combine. We're still grinding
through these guys. We saw the safeties, the cornerbacks, and
finally we got to the offense, the tight ends. This
is a long podcast version here, We're gonna break all
these guys down, really going to depth here. Let's start
(00:21):
at the top though, with the biggest need, which is
of course tight end. I mean, the Patriots don't really
have anybody on the roster officially right now that played
last year. I think we'd both maybe make the argument
Hunter Henry, there's not a lot of options out there
in free agency.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Resign him.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
He's been a great contributor. Yeah, bring him back and
at least establish a baseline. But we saw these guys
here today, not a big class, only two groups of
tight ends, not like last year's class, which just seemed
absolutely loaded. What stood out to you overall, just starting
at the top from this tight end class.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Well, that was the first thing.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
And not to crap all over this class or anything
like that, but it was just a sheer volume or
lack thereof in this tight end group. I mean, we
only had two groups go up to the podium today
and I'm just looking at it on your shoet.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
You can tell it small?
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
We got a team guys?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Maybe?
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Yeah, not even It's just it's a smaller group. If
there's not a ton of depth in this class, there's
really two prizes. I would say brock Bowers is in
a tier of his own. He's number one. I do
want to talk a little bit about our thoughts on
brock Bauers and how it makes sense doesn't make sense
for them. But I think when you start to get
into the other guys, you're looking at guys that are
(01:22):
more uh, just have specific roles that they might fill,
versus guys that are gonna come in and be high
impact three down, you know, type of players. I think
the only other titand that I would put in that
high impact category is probably Jatavian Sanders from Texas. But
then you get into the Ben Siddens and the Theo
Johnson and the cade Stovers, and I think those guys
(01:44):
are going to have roles on NFL teams, but they
might not be a Day one impact starter type of
player at the position yet.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Don't forget Jared Wiley from TCU or one of our
one of our favorites as well.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But let me ask you this, Steven.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I mean, you know, we talk a little bit about, like,
you know, trading down, is that really an option? Not really,
it doesn't seem.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Like it at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
But if they were to trade down, and we talked
so much about they need to weaponize the offense, you know,
is somebody like Brock Powers, does that count?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Does that count as weaponized it?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Because I'm sure I'd say Rob Gronkowski, he sure was
a weapon, you know, not to make that comparison, but
it seems like that maybe would make sense if they
were to trade down, and he's kind of sitting there
in the twelve thirteen range something in there, maybe a
little higher.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
So when I watch Brock Bowers on film, I see
a lot of George Kittle and someone that can block,
that can catch the ball, that can create after the
catch and stretch the field vertically with his speed.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
He's a very.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Fast tight end and someone I think could time in
the four fives in the forty yard dash. I don't
know if he's running, but if he does run, I
think he's going to time very very well. So he's
got vertical speed, he's got the actability, he's got blocking ability.
Maybe not the true hand in the dirt Rob Gronenkowski.
This is an extra tackle type of blocking. But if
you get him on an island into space where the
(02:52):
dB with a linebacker and just ask him to seal, he's.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Extremely effective at that.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
So in a lot of respects, I do all the
things that I do said, it opens up a lot
for your offense because he's basically a receiver, but he
also can block, so he's got that flexibility to be
in line detached. That's a very scheme versatile and a
very dynamic player. But I think for the Patriots, you
have to ask yourself how much does that necessarily move
(03:17):
the needle and how much is it going to really
make that Day one impact. So I just don't necessarily
see the path for brock Bauers with New England, But
there are teams in the top ten. The Chargers I
think look like a great fit for him. That's someone
that could really come in and make a huge impact.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
You talk about Alex van Pelt and the offense that
you know he ran in Cleveland, and we know he's
been a lot of different places, so he's you know,
it's not necessarily going to be exactly what it was
in Cleveland, But you know, how do you feel between
taking a.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Developmental hy tight end.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
You know, somebody who you're coping can get strong enough
to really handle it all?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Maybe not.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You know, sometimes those guys are hard because they're not
always the most explosive. But then there's always guys that
are just a typical F. And look, we're not going
to ask you to block. We're gonna you know, go
back to Gronk and Hernandez. You know, it was kind
of like the perfect pairing with Hernandez and his ability
to get open. So, you know, just philosophically, how do
you feel about, Yeah, you might not get brock Bauers,
who's going to be hopefully that prototypical why tight end,
(04:10):
But maybe you can take an F on day two
or three who can come in.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
We're not gonna ask too much of you, but you
can come in and contribute to this offense and make
some place.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
That's the way I look at Jatavian Sanders as of
right now, I don't think that you're doing You're doing
him a little bit of a disservice by asking him
to put his hand in the dirt and kick out
a nine technique, right like, this is not really.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Gonna be his game.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
But at the same time, if you get that player
into space, if you get that player down the field,
he's going to create chunk play after chunk play after
chunk play.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And that's exactly what he did at Texas.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
You know, looking at that Texas offense, they have Zavian
Worthy on the outside, they have Adi Mitchell on the
other side, and there's all this space in the middle
of the field, and Jatavian standards consistently made defenses pay
for overloading the outside guys. And I think that that's
somebody that could fit really well into this Alex fan
Pelt offense. As much as you think about they want
to run the ball, they want to be a run
(05:02):
first offense, I think there's so much misdirection to their
run game, and there's so much variety to the way
that they run the ball that it's not necessarily that
you need to have that Gronkowski blocking tight end. I
think that there are that ability to are We're gonna
run wide zone and he's gonna then bootleg off of it,
so you can't, you know, over commit to the run,
(05:24):
and and that helps them block a little bit, like
it's not as much of that. We're just coming right
at you, and we need a guy that's gonna be
able to block that way. So I don't think it's
necessarily a top priority for.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That tight end to be a big blocker.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, so tight end clearly big position to need. And
really they could go any which direction. You don't really
have any guys on the roster you play last year,
like I said, so they've got to make some additions
in their free agency at the draft.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Not a great class. Wish they grabbed some last year.
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, I mean, like you look at free agency, right,
and I do think there are some guys like you know,
obviously Dalton Schultz is probably gonna be the top tight end,
but even like a guy like Gerald Everett I think
is interesting just because of his ability to create after
the catch, and they're gonna run a lot, like I
just said, of bootleg misdirection, things like that. If they're
gonna be a lot of that, which is what avp's
been in the past, and just getting guys that can
(06:11):
sneak into the flats and then take a ball you
know that's a little checked down and turn it into
a twenty yard game.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Like those are the types of things that you look at.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Like we saw from Farrell Brown, who was another guy
that you know, I bring him back like a big
you know NFL veteran that can block.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I'm all for that. So they got work to do there.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Let's switch over to cornerback though, and this is you know,
an interesting position. Christening Gonzalez outstanding and what did he
play three games and change? I mean yeah, AFC Rookie
of the Month there in September. I mean, just a
huge disappointing moment when he went down in Dallas and really,
you know, he didn't get the chance to develop. We've
seen some video though, you know, we always get these
videos on Instagram. He's rehabbing, he's working out, folks, He's
gonna be okay. Jonathan Jones I thought had a great year.
(06:47):
He battled through injuries. You know, maybe has some struggles
at times, but I still think that Jonathan Jones has
that ability to be a base down outside corner. He's
gonna slide inside maybe and take you know, some of
the more shifty guys on on pure passing downs. But
you know, with Jack Jones gone now Marcus Jones coming back,
we haven't really seen him perform as you know a slot.
You know, I think he's a good like fourth corner,
you know, a second slot, like when you need a
(07:09):
specific kind of guy to cover a short person. I
think Marcus Jones could be that guy.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Still.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I still have some hope with him. But a little bit,
a little bit, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Well, you know, we saw a little bit against the
Raiders a couple of years ago, you know, but it
is what it is. He's got great quickness though, and
I think, you know, honestly, I mean, going back to
when he came out, I was always a super impressed
with how sticky he was. Yeah, like he was really
good in coverage. But enough about the guys already on
the roster. Today we saw a bunch of cornerbacks and again,
you know, there's some top rank guys that we probably
aren't going to see in Patriots uniforms.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
They got that first round pick last year.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
But you know, Cooper Degen we talked about him a
little bit on the debrief, but just kind of an
ideal Patriots fit if it were ever to fall that way.
I don't know if I'm putting a number one on
the big board this year like we did last year
with Gonzales, but he has some talent.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
The kids from Alabama too, those two guys both really talented.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yeah, look, I mean there's not a ton of consensus
right now. I would say with the number one corner
in this class, there isn't one of those you know,
number you know top corners that's gonna go in the
top five, top ten picks most likely. I was really
impressed by Quinn and Mitchell from Toledo at the Senior Bowl.
I think he's somebody that solidified himself as a Day
one first round prospect down in Mobile. You mentioned the
(08:14):
two Alabama guys. Those guys are definitely in the conversation
as well. But Cooper de Jen's one of those players
that old regime probably all over. Cooper Degene like can
play every single spot in the back end. You can
play them at safety, you can play them at nickel,
you can play them at outside corner and he can
really just do just about everything, and then he can
also play in the kicking game.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
So that's that's a Belichick pick, you know, through and through.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
So I don't know if necessarily they're gonna go in
that direction, but looking at outside corner in general, I
think is a need having that third guy that can rotate.
In the league nowadays is so eleven personnel heavy. Everything's
three wide receiver, especially on third down, and you need
to be able to play manta man coverage on third
down against three receivers that can all play. And in
(08:57):
order to do that, the Patriots are gonna have to
look at that third a back spot. You're gonna have
Christian Gonzalez, You're gonna have Jonathan Jones. But is it
like you know, the depth chart you just went over.
So there's a couple of guys that I thought stood
out today and stood out in mobile as well. A
guy like Cam Hart from Notre Dame. Yeah, is someone
that I've looked at a lot. You know, physical outside
corner can play press man, can play in a Patriots
(09:18):
style system.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
So I think that's the.
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Biggest thing though for this group, is finding a third
rotational guy probably not gonna play every down, maybe more
like sixty percent of the snaps, but we always like
to call it on cash money to the Jason mccordy
role totally, who's just that safety.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Play on third down and be a critical piece.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, we mean talk about Patriots fits and one guy,
Max Meltin from Rutgers four block punts. He was really
trumpeting that at his podium session, as he should be,
mad Max. But again another guy kind of trumpeting his versatility,
like the gene the ability to play number of spots.
And I think you heard us talk earlier about how
kind of complicated it is, how it kind of could
all fit together. But when you look at a guy
with just a lot of versatility, it's just that's perfect.
(10:00):
Because somebody goes down, somebody gets hurt, you have the
ability to fill in a number of different spots.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
So that was, you know, one guy that just kind
of stood out to me today.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yeah, I think that in general with this secondary I
just would look for a little bit more size personally.
Still like, look, Gonza is great and he's going to
be a number one corner, but Jonathan Jones, Marcus Jones,
maybe Alex Austin's the guy that you bring in has
the size still that's still around. But I really trusting
Alex Austin to be a guy that's gonna play a
(10:28):
significant role in this defense. And obviously I have Miles
Bryan too, is another smaller guy. So I still think
that they could use some length and size on the outside.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, I mean the the other part of too.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I mean, I'm just I'm thinking of Jawan Williams, and
of course, you know didn't work out, but.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
You know, again just a big corner that you.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Know, they've been such a matchup team in the past,
and you know, from what we've heard from DeMarcus Covington,
it sounds like a lot of the elements from the
defense will remain, you know, but I think we're expecting
there to.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Be some evolution to this defense. I don't think it's
going to be exactly what it was.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
I mean, even when they changed under defensive coordinators, when
you know, we famously went from Matt Patrice to Brian
Flores and all of a sudden, it's like zero blitz
is coming at you left and right. You know, even
into Steve Belichick and jirob what they've kind of done
and kind of maintained some of that aggression. I know,
you know, we talked a lot about Steve and when
you know when to call the zero blitzers in those
things Washington will have.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
We'll have fun with that aggressive defense. We'll run under Steve.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
But I do wonder, like, you know, do they need
a bigger matchup piece? And you know, you mentioned Austin
and I'm like, was he like even he seems still
a little bit frail.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
I think that's the biggest question is you know, you
know Gonzo and you hope Gonzo is gonna be that
guy that's you know, when they play the Jets, it's
gonna be Garrett Wilson, when they play the Dolphins, it's
gonna be Tyreek Hill, and they play the Bills, it's
gonna be Stefan Diggs. But who is gonna be that
second outside corner Because ideally, I think a guy like
Jonathan Jones is someone that can travel around that whether
(11:46):
it's you know, a shifty slot receiver, a speed slot receiver,
it just kind of move him around and allow him
to basically put out fires and not necessarily pigeonhole him
to one spot. Like I feel like he's almost defaulted
to the last couple of years because of injuries and
lack of depth that spot. You mentioned scheme changes and
things like that. You know, DeMarcus coming in and Drod
(12:07):
May are both front seven guys, defensive line, coach, linebacker.
Usually when you get guys like that that are running
your defense, it becomes more aggressive, like you're just you're
coming after the quarterback. You start screaming, scheming up the pressures,
you know, skimming up different looks in the pressure game.
You know, scheme pressures, creepers, things like that, and you
just start coming after the quarterback because that's what their
background is in. But the league in a lot of
(12:30):
ways is starting to trend towards a lot more split
safety coverage. And we've discussed this before, the Fangio influence
of the quarters and palms and things like that.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Is that a way that they end up going Because.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
This college game, and we're going to talk about the
safeties here, I'm sure in a second, the college game
is they don't play any post safety anymore in college
and if they do, it's like Rip Liz type stuff
where they're rotating post snap into post safety. So they
don't play a ton of single high coverage, So finding
those single high center fielders like the Devin authorities.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Is harder and harder and harder.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So in a lot of ways, supply and demand like
you can't just force guys into those roles. And I
think last year they figured it out as the year
kind of progressed. But Kyle Duggard Jabriel Pepper's kind of
playing out a position a little bit, playing up top.
So is that a spot that they look at to
Cam Kitchens or someone like that that they can play
that role or do they look to change it a
(13:22):
little bit how they do things in the back end.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
So Evan, let us right into it, right, we're right
onto safeties. There we go.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You know, but I wonder too, like and this is
a little bit, you know, out of the frame of
what we're talking about right now, But you know, do
you think that maybe as we go forward with the model,
as you just laid out that transitioning cornerbacks, maybe more
zone cornerbacks who you know don't really fit your man scheme,
But if you're playing them on the back end, you're
not as worried about them matching mirroring guys in coverage,
that kind of thing. I just wonder if that's maybe
(13:48):
something to watch for, starting to take zone corners and
moving them to free safety.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I don't know, I'm just doing I'm spitball on here,
you know.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Well, it's it's one thing too. I think we talked
to DeMarcus coming to a couple of weeks ago. I
can't even remember how long that was. Delus, Yeah, it
was some time ago, and he talked about turnovers and
the one thing that you could hold against the defense
last year, as good as they played, is they didn't
turn the ball over a ton. And I look at
(14:15):
that and you think about Gonzales great man to man
mirror match corner. He's going to go and shadow a
number one receiver and he's going to be able to
carry him all over the field, which is great. But
he's not necessarily a ball hawk, which is not a
bad thing.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
It's just not his game.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
So maybe looking at that other cornerback spot free safety
as spots that you can get turnover producers, you know,
guys that can range over the top and have those
types of interceptions, or an outside corner that maybe is
a little bit more of like a zone match type
of corner that will jump routes and create interceptions.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I think in theory you're thinking about guy like J. C.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Jackson, but more in his prime, right, So I think
it's something as terms of pairing with Gonzalez is I
don't know if you necessarily want to pair Gonzalez with
another guy that's gonna just mirror and match guys all
over the field. You might want a little bit more
of a risk taker on the other side, because you
know you're gonna have the steady Eddie on the other side.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
It's a good point and so sticking with safeties.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I mean, one guy I wanted to bring up, just
from Georgia, I think we're both a little bit impressed
with him, Javon Bullard school personality just seems like, you know,
he really yeah, yeah, he just he has kind of
a spark to him. I mean sometimes, you know, we've
been doing this for a few years now and there
are certain guys and I don't know if Javon Bullet's
gonna work out. I mean, I know his game has
some some flaws in it, but he just kind of
projects the feeling of having been in NFL locker rooms
(15:31):
now for a full year or for a few years.
He kind of projects that that's that this guy can
play in the NFL.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
It just feels like, and you.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Just talked to so many of these guys that are
from Alabama, Georgia, Texas, like these big time programs to
see you and TC, and they they're just ready.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
They're ready to play in the league.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
And they it's almost like they've been playing in the
fact like minor league NFL this entire time. It's a
little bit a step above regular college football, where the
media attention that all the did things that go into it,
the way their coaches run their programs, it's so similar
to an NFL structure that they almost feel just a
little bit more ready for this moment.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I thought that was kind of what I.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Took away from Bullard, who is a little bit undersized
in terms of his length and his height. He's more
of like a blockie, probably going to be like a
nickel or a box safety. Can play a little bit
of split safety zone as well, but not that true centerfielder.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I'm telling you the truth.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
Centerfielder in this class is Cam Kitchens from Miami. If
that's the way that they want to go at the
maybe at thirty four. I think he's gonna be a
late first, early second type of guy. If they truly
feel like they need that role and they need to
fill Devin mccordy's shoes with a guy that can translate
and do those types of things, that he's the guy.
But in general, I just again, you go through the
(16:46):
group and it's just so many of it is just
the same.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
This guy's like a Kyle Duggart type.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
This guy's like a Kyle Duggart that guy type, and
it's just all these kind of box safety hybrids.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I like me those Peppers types.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So we had to chance to talk to Matt Miller
from ESPN, who just you know, he's been around forever.
He's been working his way up. He goes way back
to the bleacheryport is with me. I mean, he has
just been on the draft for over a decade now.
So I had a great conversation with him. He even
expanded a little bit. You had a chance to ask
him about this safety spot as well his impression of
the quarterbacks.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
He's very high on the wide receivers.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So check out this interview right now we had with
Matt Miller from ESPN. All Right, We're excited to be
joined now by Matt Miller from Matt from ESPN. Matt,
thanks for joining us here at the combine.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
I don't think I've ever done Patriots media at the
combine really normally. You know, you guys are like coming
fresh off a Super Bowl win. You're not even talking
about the draft. So I think this might be a
first one.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Well, you might have heard what third overall picks, so
we've got plenty to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
It's a little different too.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, So so are your most recent Monck draft. You've
got Jayden Daniels going to the Patriots. Just tell us
a little bit about that pick and what you see
the fit.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
There, which Jaden is a fantastic player.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
I think if there were an award for most improved
player in college football, he would have taken that one home,
as well as the Heisman for being the.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
Best player in college football.
Speaker 6 (17:56):
You know, the running ability is notable over twelve one
hundred yards the last two years each in the SEC.
It's not easy to do, but it's also it's the
pocket passing, it's the downfield passing. You know, my favorite
stat on him on throws over twenty yards. He had
a QBR of ninety nine point five.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
That's really really hard to do.
Speaker 6 (18:11):
He had twenty two touchdowns, zero interceptions on deep passing.
So if he's there at three overall, not sure that
he will be as of today. That mock draft is
a couple weeks old. He is a dynamic player that
I think is that type of quarterback that could put
a team on him early, just like LSU did this
past year, and he's able to elevate what's around him.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I wanted to ask you just what Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
It seems like there is some steam at least in
the media about him going too overall to the Commanders,
and I think that makes a lot of sense with
the Cliff Kingsbury there. So how do you see that
now shaking out now that you've been here for a
few days too.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Yeah, I think the Cliff kings very higher in Washington
was when my mind kind of changed as well. Of Okay,
looking at what you know, he put his job on
the line to get Kyler Murray in Arizona.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Jaden has a lot of the same qualities.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
I would argue is maybe a better runner and is
a better passer, so that definitely makes that kind of
an interesting fit.
Speaker 5 (19:02):
That's what happens.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
You know, you think you have an idea of where
guys are gonna go, and then a higher happens and
you're like, you know, then Jim Harball goes to the
Chargers and you're like, wait, that ruined my mock draft.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
So why couldn't you guys have done this earlier?
Speaker 6 (19:12):
But there definitely seems to be that's the way the
wind is kind of blowing right now. You know, the
next few days are still very very important to that process.
Jayden is not throwing here, so there's not that opportunity
like a C. J. Stroud or Anthony Richardson last year
where they came and like they put a stamp on
their draft stock last year with their workouts.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
We're not gonna see that.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
So it might delay things out at least until the
middle of March when we get the LSU pro day.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Yeah, and with Drake May, it just seems like he's
become one of the more volatile prospects honestly in this draft.
Either have a lot of people that think that he's
you know, got a lot of wards, and then there's
a lot of people that look at him and see
Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, where do you kind of fallo
on that skill?
Speaker 6 (19:49):
And you know, so I would say people have forgotten
that Josh Allen and Justin Herbert had a lot of
wards coming out.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Yeah, they've turned into who they are. You know. I was.
I was the biggest Josh Allen fan in the world
when he come out of Wyoming.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
He'd had a terrible year at Wyoming that year and
a lot of people were like, Oh, I don't see
it with him. Same with Justin Herbert, it was, Oh,
he doesn't have the personality to lead a team, or
he doesn't ever run and leave the pocket. Obviously, now
we see him as a really accomplished runner in the NFL.
So I think for Drake it's a similar situation where
where he's drafted is going to matter a lot. You
want to have a good infrastructure in place for him
(20:19):
because he is a young quarterback.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
He's twenty two years old.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
He only started for two years in college and had
two different offensive coordinators, so he hasn't had a chance
to really settle in, learn and build that consistency.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
So wherever he.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
Goes, whether it be Washington at two, New England at
three or someone after that. He needs to have a
good a good setup, which almost every quarterback does. That
doesn't make him unique, but I think that's where you've
seen some of the polarization of man.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
I really like the tools.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
There are times he does things and I'm scratching my
head and a lot of it just goes back to coaching,
and you hope that you can fix that once he
gets to the NFL.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Yeah, and you look at with Drake two, there's a
lot of helmet scouting. I feel like going on absolutely
where it's Mitchell Kubisky.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Sam Howell. You know those types of plays.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Is not nothing against those guys, But how different would
you say to Trubisky in particular just being a high
draft pick himself?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Is Drake May at this time?
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:08):
The funny Mitch was like the most conservative quarterback prospect
maybe ever. You know, if it wasn't there, he didn't
take it, And Drake is the opposite. He will take
things that aren't there. You know, he would make throws
that you don't want him to, which is where you
get some of the Josh Allen commp stuff. He tries
to put everything on himself. And there's some hero ball
at times, and there are times you know there's a
free blitzer coming in his face and he's going to
(21:28):
eat that tackle to make a throw that he shouldn't make.
And so very different from Trubisky, who was ultra conservative
and quite a bit bigger and more athletic than Sam
Howell was. And also, you know Sam Howe, we saw
that drop off when he didn't have the star wide
receivers around and the star running backs around him.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
We saw a big drop off.
Speaker 6 (21:46):
Drake this past year doesn't have josh Awen's new offensive coordinator.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Production Wise, there wasn't as much of a drop off.
It was just more so in some of the decision making.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I feel like that.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
You're sorry, Mike, I just I feel like the Trubisky
stuff is just so wild to me that people make.
Speaker 6 (22:00):
I don't know what we call this website anymore, but
my Twitter bio has a line that's to scout the player,
not the helmet. Yeah, because that's my biggest pet peeve
of Like, you know, imagine if you look to every
Michigan quarterback ever and was like, these guys never work out.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
We're not gonna take a flyer.
Speaker 6 (22:14):
Out of Tom Brady or LSU quarterbacks before Joe Burrow,
Ohio State quarterbacks before C. J.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
Stroud.
Speaker 6 (22:19):
So it's a risky game to do that, and it's just,
you know, it's a little lazy.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, I'm sure you guys could talk quarterbacks all day.
We got to talk some wide receivers.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
You know Elliot Wolfe earlier this weeks that the Patriots
have to weaponize their offense. I think we can all
agree that this offense needs to take the next step.
I know you're high on the wide receivers in this class,
of course, at the top. First of all, is there
an argument to be made for the Patriots to take
one of those guys at the top? If not, how
do you kind of see that playing out later? Where
could they get another guy?
Speaker 6 (22:42):
There's absolutely an argument to be made for that. I
think if you just look at who are the best
players in the class, you can make an argument from
Marvin Harrison Junior as the best player in the class.
Same for Elik Neighbors. That's a wide receiver at LSU.
It's funny I have Kayleb Williams one, I have Harrison too.
A duneesay four, A Neighbors three or Dunesay four. So
I have them all like right there together and all
with like this big crazy grade because they're also specialist talents.
(23:03):
So I do think, and you know, to carry on
the quarterback conversation if they are not convicted all the
way on one of the quarterbacks, this is the year
where you should just not take one. You should take
because there are superstar wide receivers. There's a left tackle
in Joe Alt who is a franchise caliber. Plug him
in for twelve years and don't worry about the position
ever again. And I think offensively, the Patriots roster is
(23:24):
in such a shape that don't force it this year.
If you don't love the quarterback who's there at three.
You could also trade back, get some draft capital, which
is needed to weaponize this offense, and you could walk
out with one of the top three receivers or the
top left tackle in the draft, which all of those
are equal needs. Obviously quarterback it takes precedent because of
the positional value, but you have needs it at all
(23:44):
your core offensive spots right now.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Any favorites for you wide receiver position day two, like
you know those later rounds.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Yeah, So I love wide receivers. That's where I get
in trouble because I like them all. At Ni Mitchell
from Texas. If he doesn't go in the first round,
it will be a travesty. But I look at my
colleagues mock drafts and he's there. I'm like, guys, what
are we doing?
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Like watch him play. He's got to be a first
round pick.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
Lad mcconkee from Georgia is another one where I use
this line all the time.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
But if we could just watch guys play football.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
And forget the work scouting for the draft for a while,
Lad McConkie would be one of your favorite players to
watch because it's just he's a technician, he's tough, he
never drops the ball, so quick in and out of
everything he does. So it's Round two wide receivers are
really really talented this year. And you know it used
to be when I was back at Bleacher Report, we
talked about, oh, round twos when you get your receivers
because of AJ Brown, because of Michael Thomas and all
(24:32):
those great round two wide receivers. Now it's become a
premium position, but you can still get exceptional value after
pick thirty two.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah, I'd be pretty surprised if Ady Mitchell seems like
a guy that's back into the first round guy, and
I am surprised every time I see him sneak into
that thirty four range for the Patriots. But mentioned Laddi McConkie,
and I also wanted to ask you in a transition
to tackles to Marius Mims as well, both Georgia guys.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Both those guys had.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Injuries, haven't played a ton, haven't had a ton of production.
How do you view that as a as a scout,
as an analyst, When guys have such a small sample
size to.
Speaker 6 (25:06):
Work with, it's it's really hard. And with Mems especially,
he only started eight games in college. He had to
wait his turn for Broderick Jones, started a little bit
in twenty twenty two, finally gets to start this year,
then gets the tightrope beankal surgery, so he has to
shut down for a little while. With Mems, what I
like is those eight games might be the best eight games.
Any tackle in this class is played like that. So
it's you see the upside. That's what makes my job easier.
(25:28):
And I think for NFL coaches and scouts it's Okay,
we've seen him do this, especially in the SEC. You know,
to see you do this out of Georgia and have
that dominance for eight games, we know we can get
that from you consistently. It's not so much the highs
and lows. You know, sometimes you see guys become draft bust.
It's the highs and lows in a limited amount of time.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
With those two. It was especially with McConkey.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
I mean, it was dominance every time he was on
the field, especially when he was on the field and healthy.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
Yeah, is dominant. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
That Florida game for him was just the outrageous Aye
the route running.
Speaker 6 (25:57):
For him to battle to come back in the SEC
championship game, and no, he's not hundred percent. Told me
so much about just who he is as a player
and how much he loves his teammates and his coaches
to get out there and you know, hobbling through the game,
you think like at one point it's like, oh he's
done for the game.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Nope, here he comes right back in. So his toughness
is infectious.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
So I want to ask you about Joe Alt because
I feel like we haven't talked enough about Joe Alt
a little bit here, And I think the thing with
him is that it's almost like a flavor thing with tackles.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
He's not a road grader.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
He's not necessarily the guy that has the heavy hands
it's gonna move people. But what really impressed me with
him was his footwork and his ability to mirror guys
in the past.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Rush is just exceptional.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
No, he's a finished product. He really is. And some
of that's notre Dame.
Speaker 6 (26:36):
Some of that's because his dad was a Chiefs Hall
of Famer at offensive tackle. But you're right, six '
eight three fifteen, you think this guy's gonna be a punisher. Yeah,
it's not quite his game. He's a little bit more
of a finesse player. But can you turn that on.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (26:48):
You know, we've seen guys come out of college who
are road graders and they don't know how to throttle down,
you know, and so it's they're over aggressive that causes
him to be, you know, a subpar player. So I
think with him it's that, you know, are you still
able to put guys on the ground, you know, are
you are still going to get those pancake blocks? He's
still able to dominate in the run game without being
you know, overly physical.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
I think he does do that very well.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
And what he does in passport, like you said, the
footwork is he looks like he's playing in the NFL
for five years. You know, he's just a pro ready
to go right away. Like I said, he's a twelve
year starter. You plug him in and you don't worry
about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Any depth on the tackle position, though Patriots miss out
at the top, I mean they big need for them.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
They really have to replace both spots.
Speaker 6 (27:24):
Yeah, so there I don't think that there is this
year because we're going to see a run like a
guy like Amarius Mems probably still goes in the first
round because of the upside. There are two good left tackles,
all Oli Fashano. The other like six tackles I think
can go in the first round are all right tackles.
So it is a little bit interesting to where maybe
someone slips through the cracks and is there at thirty four.
But it's become such a premium position and where this
(27:47):
draft is strong, you know, quarterback, wide, receiver, tackle, corner
are all positions teams are usually falling all over themselves
to get early. So I think we probably see a
run in the twenties.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, Evan, you got If you want to talk about
defensive well, I mean not in the twenties.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Doesn't mean make me feel good, because every time I do,
I do my mock draft because I'm an expert, right,
is that all? Yeah? I look at thirty four. As
you know, quarterback at three, tackle at thirty four. There's
such depth in this receiver class that you can probably
get a receiver at sixty eight that can still make
an impact. But tackle at thirty four is always tough
because there isn't somebody that I really love at that spot.
Speaker 6 (28:21):
I think a lot of teams are feeling that same way,
which is why there is that argument of you know,
there are so many clubs in the top fifteen picks
where you say, okay, they need a wide receiver and
a tackle. We'll take the tackle first and wait for
the wide receiver. That's just smart drafting at this point.
Even though we love those three receivers at the top,
you know, there are a lot of teams the Chargers
at five, or another team a lot like New England
(28:42):
where you have that argument of okay, we need both,
what do we do here? And that could be where
we see a lot of trade activity as teams say, Okay,
well we're split on this decision, let's trade back and
maybe someone will help us make the decision between the
two players.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, I just got to ask one one about defense. Sorry,
and I know I know we're all focused on but
just in.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Terms of the edge position, kind of a sneaky for
the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Just overall, how do you kind of see that class
and what's the depth kind of like in day two,
Day three developmental.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
Yeah, so there's not a guy you drafted three this
year obviously, but I think at thirty four you could
be looking at really good depth and.
Speaker 5 (29:12):
Then around three.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
I think one cool thing about pass rushers is we're
starting to see teams draft for a role instead of
let's draft this guy and we expect him to play
all three downs and he's got to play eighty percent
of our snaps. Now it's you need at least three
pass rushers, and you would really like that five or six.
So you can draft guys who are maybe a little
bit undersized, like a Chop Robinson from Penn State. I
think he's definitely a play at thirty four and can
(29:34):
be that stand up pass.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Rusher with great speed. There's a ton of value in that.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
No, he's not going to be you know, your first
down right defensive end, you know, against twelve personnel, but
when it's time to go get the quarterback, he can
be that player.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I got one defensive question. I got a defensive question
that I'm a offensive guy. I just especially last year.
We don't need to watch that again. Yes, anyways, one
thing that I've thought about a lot is replacing Devin
m in the back end for this Patriots defense.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And I watched a lot of college football and it's
so much.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
Quarters heavy, split safety heavy, and it's hard to find
that that true single high center fielder in this draft.
Is there anybody that can really play that post safety spot.
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Absolutely. Klen Bullock from USC is that guy who has
that over the top range. She's been a ball hawk.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
Is he a great tackler? No, he's not. It's not
because he doesn't want to. It's almost like he hasn't
been taught how to be yet. So I think that's
part of his game that could still be developing. But
if I had to go with that almost center fielder
type safety in this class, it would be him, not
great well.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And Matt thanks so much for joining us. Great stuff
from Mat. Check out all his work on ESPN or
your mock rafts you got. When's the next one coming out?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
I don't know. I think in two weeks.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I'm surprised they don't have you to do one every
single day.
Speaker 6 (30:43):
I would do one every day. Is the problem. But
we have this guy named mel kaiper Junior. He takes
priority on the mock draft.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, awesome stuff. Matt, thanks so much for joining us. Yeah,
thanks big thanks to Matt for coming on and discussing.
I mean, he's just he's got this big board, he's
got everything covered, providing his you know, sharing his knowledge
with us.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
So it's always great.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That'd be great national player com sohch I love to do.
I know some fans hate him, but I love him.
And he had the same exact player com for Jayden
Daniels and for Drake May that I did Lamar Justin Herbert,
So I was like, we're on the.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Same fan best friends forever.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's gonna wrap it up for us here on leap day,
day three of the combine, and Evan's really excited because
guess what, folks, we're our full offense. Now, we're going quarterbacks,
we're going running backs, we're going wide receivers tomorrow, offensive
line on Saturday. All huge needs for the Patriots. So
we're excited to dump in. We'll have debrief, we'll have
another full podcast like this. We're looking forward to speaking
with Field Yates of ESPN as well to get his
(31:34):
perspective on this draft. So we hope you'll stick with
us this whole time. Two more days to go here
from the twenty twenty four combine in Indy,
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