Tune-in as we preview the top defensive backs in the 2024 NFL Draft and which have a fit with the Patriots. Mike Dussault sits down with NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah to discuss New England's biggest needs and best Draft fits, as well as his latest mock draft. Plus, latest news coming out of the NFL Owners Meetings where Robert Kraft and Jerod Mayo both spoke about the Patriots offseason so far and a few rule changes for the 2024 season.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to an NFL Draft hosted.
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By the writers of Patriots dot Com.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
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the countdown is on.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to the Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
What's up, everybody, We're back with another episode of Patriots
Draft Countdown presented by bud Light. Easy to Drink, Easy
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England Patriots.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
And guys.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Today, we have an episode focusing on the defensive backs.
We have a film review from Evan Lazar, and we
also have an interview with the one and only Daniel Jeremiah.
But before we get into that, we want to go
over some weekend news and guys. We had a lot.
We got Paul Parrillo, Chris Cassidy here, we had JJ
McCarthy right to the top, very similar to some I
would say.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Zach Wilson. So what do you guys think about that?
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Yeah, not buying it. You know, on the surface, I
think JJ McCarthy has some ability. I'm not telling you
that I think that he doesn't belong in this converse
station with the other quarterbacks. I think he's got more
athleticism than he's given credit for. I think he's shown
the ability to move around in the pocket and make plays.
But you know, the most recent stuff coming out of
the owners meetings, you know, talking about possibly Washington at
(01:16):
number two, I have to think they're trying to pump
this guy's value up for some reason, maybe trying to
increase the the importance of those picks, see if you
can entice somebody to move up. But I don't see
JJ McCarthy being on par with those other guys, you know,
Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels in Drake May. I think
he's a notch below those guys.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Sam Chris, what do you think.
Speaker 7 (01:37):
I definitely see more excuse me as like a second.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Round type of guy. I mean, he had a great
pro day. I mean nothing, nothing new there. But at
the same time, it's like this whole time he's been
pushed as that second round quarterback. You can go and
get them, you can focus on the Jane Daniels, Caleb Williams,
Drake May's of the world in the first round.
Speaker 7 (01:57):
JJ McCarthy has always.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Been that second round sort of so I don't know
what is causing all of this extra hype around it.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
I think it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I mean, he's great nobility, he didn't throw the ball
all that much at Michigan. He threw a good amount,
and he had a great receiver in Roman Wilson. But
I mean again, I don't fully see that first round
upside for him.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Yeah, and that's basically my point with him is I
think he has ability. I probably think that you could
talk yourself into a first round pick. That's fine. I
just think he's more of a projection because of what
Chris just said. He didn't throw as much in college
as the other guys. Now he's younger, so I guess
that's a you know, a plus for him, especially if
you're looking to take him and maybe understanding that you're
(02:42):
not going to play in right away, you know, sort
to get him more acclimated to the pro game. But
I feel like the other guys had to carry their
teams JJ McCarthy one more than the other guys, but
I think he had, you know, quote unquote less to
do with it than the other guys.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
The real discussion will be if Whyington makes that pick,
what the trickle down effect will.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Be great news, great news for the New England Patriots.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Give gives you some options there. But guys, we also
had owner owner meetings, league meetings and some new rules
got made, so we have the kickoff changes. But the
one that kind of effects of Patriots maybe their draft
situation is the hip drop tackle. We're seen tackling kind
of taken out of the game here. So how's that
approach are you going to take.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
I don't like the rule obviously, but I mean, I
think every team's in the same boat. I don't necessarily
think it it will impact as much with the draft.
I think, you know, what I would worry about from
a defensive point of view, and I saw Juwan Bentley
was very very active on social media talking about this stuff.
You can't hit high, you can't hit low. Now you
(03:44):
can't hit in the middle. So I don't really know
what a defensive player to do. And the thing that
would bother me the most if I were an NFL
defensive player, you know.
Speaker 8 (03:52):
And I could be.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
I mean, it's it's not a stretch, But what will
bother me the most in all seriousness, would be what
are the comments coming out of those meetings about you
might not see it as much with flags on the field,
but you're gonna see it with fines.
Speaker 8 (04:07):
Yeah, that would really bug me if I.
Speaker 6 (04:09):
Were, you know, especially like a safety, you know, having
a deal with these huge tight ends.
Speaker 8 (04:14):
You're trying to figure out a way to get them
on the ground.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
If you're like a Marcus Jones size player and you
got Derek Henry running at you, what are you supposed
to do?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It's gonna be interesting. I think I want to sort
of compare it to the pass interference penalty that was revoked.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
Thankfully, I hope that.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The flag is to be thrown isn't going to be
thrown as much as that pass interference flag was. It's
tough to overturn things like that, and also not that
you'd be able to overturn it, but that's a tough penalty.
And that's they're just playing football. They're going in for
a normal tackle.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
There.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
They've been taught this since they were in second grade.
This is how you hit, and it's it's it's upsetting, honestly,
in my opinion.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
You're keeping the head out of the hit, you're leading
with your shoulder, you're targeting the mid section exactly, but
you're rolling in a way that they don't like, you know,
unwaiting yourself. I just think you're really asking for a
lot of trouble and trying to adjudicate that. I think
it's gonna be difficult. I think you're going to see
uh plays that are going to impact games on routine tackles.
(05:17):
And I know it's all about player safety, and I
would certainly never advocate anything that's not in the name
of player safety. It's it's a violent game, and I
understand it. I think this one's tough. I think the
kickoff one tease, this makes a little bit more sense.
It's gonna be a little different. It's gonna be jarring
to people who haven't seen it. Psychos like Tease and
I we we watch a little spring football, so we've
(05:38):
seen this. We've seen XFL games, We've seen this kickoff
a little bit. I think it's going to be really
really an adjustment though for people who haven't.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
And it also gets rid of the surprise on sidekick
now because now you need to they got to do something,
and so we'll see what happens with that. Chris the
guy things to say about that.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, I mean, I kind of like the kickoff setup.
I think, you know, I would have loved to have
seen a Slater in this type of role to see
what more of an impact he could have had, because
he was that constant gunner for the Patriots, just sprinting
down the sideline, gets to the ball first. And now
you don't really have that. Now it's more of a
scrum rugby style of play, and I think that'll, in
(06:18):
my opinion, draw a little bit more interest on the
opening kickoff because usually when you're watching a game, if
you're at home, you're gonna go get beer.
Speaker 6 (06:26):
You just explain it real quick. You're still kicking off
from the thirty five, but the rest of the kickoff
team is now up at the thirty five thirty five
within five to ten yards of everybody on the receiving team,
with the exception of the two returners. You have to
have two returners in the quote unquote landing area. So
(06:47):
basically nineteen of the twenty two players that are on
the field for that play will now be aligned within
five to ten yards of each other, which is ostensibly
gonna cut down on those violent hits that take place
in space. You know, with a guy running with a
full head of steam. So that one I can understand
the player safety, you know, I get that, And they're
(07:08):
trying to get returns back in the game because the result.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Now last year bounds the whole time they were.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
Yeah, and there's also different touchback limitations that as you
go as well.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
So then we also got Coach Mayo saying, looks like
big Mike is gonna be playing right tackle, So that's what.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
We're starting, he said, yeah, he did say he would.
He could be moving them around.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
It looks like it's a big option.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So that might change how we approach drafting alignment and
what what round we do it, And hopefully we do
do it because we need one.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Maybe maybe they're gonna draft they're going to keep him
at right tackle because they're gonna draft Michael Penis, and
that'll be the blind side to think of that.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I mean talking about picks though, kind of going back
to the JJ McCarthy discussion. I know we're kind of
off of it, but he's a guy that threw the
ball a million times in Washington. You can see his arm,
you can see his uh progress throughout the season, and
he's still semi mobile. I mean, you worry about his
injuries here and then, but like that, that's the type
of person I would see in that like solidified second
(08:05):
round role, like maybe moving up into the first whereas
JJ I don't really see that.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah, you know, got you well anything else.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
On the weekend, we had some minor little uniform Yeah,
you were very excited.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, we're gonna let you it's been a long time, Chris.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
I don't know if you know.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Pats are getting the captain patch on the New Jersey
so you know, we did a couple of years ago.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
It works out differently.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
But yeah, other than that, guys, we got a good
episode coming up with the defensive backs. As I said,
we also got a film breakdown and an interview with
Daniel Jeremiah.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
So let's get into the show.
Speaker 9 (08:38):
All right, we're here talking defensive backs today, guys. Not
a huge need for the Patriots. I think we can
kind of get specific. We'll talk about some of the
big guys, but overall, Patriots drafted Christian Goanzalees last year.
They got Jonathan Jones coming back, but maybe some questions
in the slot.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's safety.
Speaker 9 (08:53):
We've seen Kyle Duggar kind of move into a little
bit more of that Devin mccordy role. Probably talk a
little bit free safety stuff. But first guy, I just
want to talk off the top of and Evan. When
we were in the at the Combine and Indy, we
talked about Cooper to Gene and if Bill Belichick was
still here, Cooper de Gen will probably be the pick
at some point just because of.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
How versatile he is. He's a really good athlete too.
Speaker 10 (09:13):
Yeah, he's basically Marcus Jones, but like a bigger version,
you know, has a little bit more of those traditional
outside cornerback traits. If you want to play him there,
play the slot, play outside, play a little safety, probably
play special teams, probably could play offense. Like you know,
He's just one of those guys that is as versatile
as as they come, and a rare, a rare type
(09:35):
of athlete, you know, at that position to be able
to do all those different types of things. I think
his natural home at the NFL is going to be
outside corner, but he can basically play anywhere you want
him to play.
Speaker 9 (09:45):
So I forgot to introduce the whole panel to of course,
we got Chris Cassidy's back sitting in for for our
friend Paul Perillo, Maattist Bauman of course you know me
and me and Evan Sorry crystill here going to you.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
What do you got a cornerback? Who who tickled your fancy?
Speaker 7 (09:58):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
You'll have a guys, Terry Arnold and kool Aid McKinstry.
I mean, both solid cornerbacks. Probably could be first round
guys realistically. I mean I have on here. I mean
the thing with kool Aid and my making falls is
Jones fast in his foot. It's always foot injuries. You
don't want to mess with those.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
Nice info. I mean that was combined info. We found
that out together.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
But yeah, I know those are really serious. I mean
foot injuries they go long way.
Speaker 7 (10:26):
I mean you gotta not a.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Lot of blood flow to the foot, So you gotta.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Four times not a lot of blood flow to the foot.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
Yeah, I was gonna say about Arnold. I mean, Arnold
sixty three tackles this past season. He's a go getter.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
He's a downhill defensive back, like he'll meet you at
the ball at all times. So I really like what
Arnold does. So that's two guys that I really really.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Caught my near the top. Probably not Patriots.
Speaker 10 (10:54):
I would say, yeah, Tyran Arnold is probably the consensus
CB one in this class, maybe top ten, top fifteen pick.
His ball skills are exceptional as well. I think he
has something like eighty targets in college and he's broken
up thirty of them, or like something crazy like that
really good downhill player as Chris said, he's probably him
or Quannon Mitchell from Toledo, or there are the two
(11:15):
guys that are going to be the first corners off
the board.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Can we also celebrate kool Aid a meme finally making
it to the league. I remember go up was like,
you know, best names, but yeah, kool Aid and tarry
On Arnold. I was watching the LSU Bama highlights and
you know, Neighbors had a crazy game, but most of
his big catches were against the safety is just breaking
three broken, broken coverages. I also love Cooper de gene
as I say that boy nice, he can hit safety.
(11:39):
I could also move into safety. I wonder if he's
gonna end up being like Devin mccordy, maybe starting off
a cornerback and then potentially moving to safety later in
his career. I also want to shout out Nat Wiggins,
very very physical likes get involved, break up the pass
and very like he likes to nag the receiver.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
That's kind of what you want with your cornerbacks. There.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I got another one here.
Speaker 9 (11:56):
I think all of us have some familiarity with him.
He's local kid. Mike Saying and Bristol were talking to
you guys pregame. Everybody was kind of mentioning him. We
did did sit in back of his parents on the
way back. I gotta the great people it was. It
was really cool. They were very proud of their son.
But you know, I don't know if it's gonna line
up Evan like with him, and yeah, he's kind to
go early, but he fits, you know, And I mean
(12:18):
he played offense just tenacious, six interceptions, two of them
returned for touchdown. If there was one guy that you
could kind of like slip in, what a great fit, he'd.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Be a good one here.
Speaker 10 (12:28):
Yeah, he's There's a lot of these types of players
in this draft, unfortunately for the Patriots, because I don't
think the need in the slot is as big as
maybe another rotational body on the outside. Right now, you
have you have obviously Christian Gonzalez, but in terms of
size on the outside physicality on the outside, he still
kind of could use another guy there, whereas in the slot,
(12:50):
you know, you probably think Jonathan Jones is gonna play
a lot of snaps there. Marcus Jones coming back, uh,
Saint Streel to me is is a nickel and this class,
just as a general statement on the cornerback class, there
are a ton of nickels in this class. Like that's
really where it's strong, is a slot corner, especially on
Day two, so he probably is the top of that,
(13:11):
but there's you know, a whole list of them after that.
So this cornerback class is interesting. I don't think it's
as top heavy as past years, you know, I don't
think I think last year the top guys like a
Christian Zalez, you know, like the kid the Seahawks drafted
who have now Witherspoon, Like, I think those guys are
probably would be better than some of these guys in
(13:33):
this class. But ten to forty is really deep. You know,
there's probably gonna be a handful of corners taken in
that sort of range. So I'm curious to see when
these corners start coming off the board. Because of all
the offensive talent at the top of the first round.
It could be Terry on Arnold's the first corner at
eleven or twelve or something like that, which is in
(13:54):
most years that's pretty low.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah, I also want to see it's like if the
Patch are gonna make it. Personally, I don't think they
can make that pick before the fourth if they were
to take a corner. And so you gotta see if
maybe Saint Astril or Elijah Jones somebody's around there, maybe
take a flyer on them. But it just that pick
can't happen before the fourth.
Speaker 10 (14:10):
Yeah, Elijah Jones is on my list. So I'm at
the Senior Bowl. Long freak athlete, maybe a little bit undersized,
you know, not not a guy that's that's huge in
terms of mass, but very athletic in a really good length.
Can play on the outside, maybe play a little bit
of safety. The other name I wrote down was Cam
Hart from Notre Dame, who had a really good Senior
(14:32):
Bowl week. He similar size, but more physical in press
man coverage. If you want a true outside bump and
run corner in the third or fourth round, he's a
little grabby. He doesn't have a great long speed, so
he's probably not going to be that high pick. I
would look at cam Hart my number one core. I
love tierro On Arnold think is a good player. I
love Quinion Mitchell from Toledo. That guy I think is
(14:54):
going to be a hell of a pro. So I
would say that those are the three guys that you know,
different tiers, right, you know, Quinon Mitchell for first round pick,
cam Hart day two guy, maybe third or fourth round,
Elijah Jones maybe slightly after that.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I mean there's two guys that if Pats wanted to
go at cornerback route, I think that stand out to me.
Second third day type players Kamari Lassiter. I think Kamari
is a solid player out of Georgia. And I really
like Kyrie Jackson out of Oregon yep. Just played his
twenty twenty three season with Oregon All Pack twelve first team.
You know, he's got great tackling grade Pro Football Focus
(15:29):
eighty four eighty four point three tackling. That was one
of the top tacklers at Oregon. Again, also kind of
a ball hog. Three interceptions. So Kyrie is somebody that
could fall if the Pagers wanted to go to the corner.
Speaker 10 (15:42):
They like those Oregon corners. Yeah, as well.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Yeah, right, a couple of couple of me to throw out.
And then this is a guy that I saw the
combine and he just had the vibe. Max Melton from
from UH from Rutgers ran a four three to nine
inside outside. I just placed tough, you know, watched a
little him against Marvin Harrison Junior, did a really good job.
I think there's no question if he if he is
a slot and you know, and I mean, you know,
just to offer a different point of view, and we're
(16:06):
recording this at a certain point, I'm kind of expecting
and I'm hoping that the Patriots signed somebody likes Stefon Gilmore.
As what Evan said, that third rotational outside guy. I'm
not exactly sold entirely yet on Marcus Jones in the slot,
so I am a little bit more open to some
of these slot guys. Jarvis Brownley from Louisville is another
one that caught my eye. Good movement skills, just aggressive
kind of press man. And the last one I'll just
(16:28):
mention here in the cornerback class. Of course, we got
to get a TCU guy in is Josh Newton, who
over four thousand snaps, experienced guy, again another guy who
played some inside placed him outside. I think he just
offers some versatility the guys.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Anybody else do you guys know Josh Newton's a good shout.
Speaker 10 (16:42):
I watched him live at at that game that I
keep getting to reference somehow because we keep doing this
on purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
You should have expensed that whole thing.
Speaker 10 (16:49):
Yeah right, I mean I should have been clocked in.
I mean, come on, yeah, No, he's a good player.
Maybe a little bit, you know, he needs to add
some place rank I would say to his game, but
I could see them. Look, Maximultain's a good poll to
really good slot corner, I think as well. I mentioned
all these slot corners, him, Sandstrill. You know, those guys
definitely all fit that same bill. Aggressive players that can tackle,
(17:11):
play at the point of attack and the run game
and and then cover. So I think all these guys
can can do a lot of different things.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
I also like DJ James from Auburn and Kaylen Carson
from wake Forest, you know, very good tacklers, which with
the potential rule change, will see how much that affects.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
Yeah, exactly amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
It was like, what is that Maybe somebody in the
later rounds just be you know, not an instant day
one starter, but somebody you can develop on the back end.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
So yeah, guys, I.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Mean I think we're all, you know, kind of on
the same page.
Speaker 9 (17:42):
I mean, it's a later it's a day late, day
two at best, probably day three kind of position. Let's
move over to the safety group though, we're again like
in the gene kind of you know, a little bit
of a safety potential. But you know, just looking at
what the Patriots have. And as we were recording Patriots
Unfiltered previous to this, they just signed j Lan Hawkins
as well, so another you know, strong safety type.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
They sure have a type. So that leads me to
continue to kind.
Speaker 9 (18:05):
Of pursue free safety types.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And you know, ballhawk guys. Maybe they don't have.
Speaker 9 (18:10):
The biggest size, but they've got the range. I'm just
gonna throw off the top. Cameron Kitchens from Miami, who
I know. I think you got to look at him
up close, right, Evan, Just I think for me, probably
gonna go too soon before the Patriots would actually want
to select him. But to me, that's one player that
you put him in, he would probably fit this rotation
pretty good.
Speaker 10 (18:26):
Yeah, I think he's one of the only defensive players
that I look at that I would say if they
took Cam Kitchens with an early pick, I wouldn't completely riot,
like you know, I think I think a little bit there.
There's some other guys that I would maybe fit that bill.
But to me, if the Patriots touch a defensive player
before the sixty eighth pick in the draft, then we're
doing something wrong. But Cam Kitchens is one of those
(18:47):
guys that I think can definitely play that center field role.
And he didn't test very well at the combine and
that's going to be the knock on him. But in
a lot of ways, his combine and his whole just
pre projection profile reminds me a lot of Brian Branch
where you know, he didn't test very well either, but
he's just a dog like, he's just a football player
and you're gonna put him out there and you know
(19:08):
that he's gonna play football well, but maybe not be
an Olympian Like I don't really care, right, So Cam
Kitchen's definitely on the board for sure for the Patriots. Also,
Lonzo high Smith connection with him, so I think that
there's a lot to like about him and you put
him back there at the perch in center field, and
then you have Dugger in the box and Pepper's you know,
(19:28):
over the nickel or whatever. Now you're now you got
a complete secondary. Everybody's got a home that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
You got Chris, you got some safeties for us.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
The only one that jumped out me was Kaylen Bullock,
other center fielder. He's I mean, he's a solid guy.
Couldn't cover three, cover one. Uh, you know, you just
need a guy then kind of oversee things in that defense.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
I think you know that was sort of a Dugger.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Role every place, trying to knock the ball out, which
is unreal.
Speaker 10 (19:54):
Yeah, yeah, he's We were talking to Jordan Reed at
the combine about this and I said, who are the
center field holders in this draft and he said, Cam
Kitchens is tier one and then Bullock from USC is
tier two. So he's definitely some of one of those
players that flashes on film that sideline to sideline ability
from center field.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So the two things, first of all, love Javon Bullard
from Georgia. I mean, that guy's a beast.
Speaker 10 (20:17):
That guy's gonna kill somebody on the field.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
And that's what you want with your safety. And he's
going to be against the best of the best in
the SEC. But I also want to talk about its
kind of interesting how this year there were so many
like high end safeties just on the free agent market.
So it's really going to make you wonder how these
teams value drafting one of these players in this position
because it's kind of the running back of the defense
almost of some of the hits these guys take.
Speaker 10 (20:38):
So yeah, it's interesting how the Patriots seemed to zig
in that category. They seem to still value safeties lester
to the league not so much, and you know they're
willing to transition Tag Dugger and you know, stuff like that.
So the last one that I would I would mention
is from Utah. Who another guy that can play multiple
(20:58):
run positions and play some running back. I play both
sides of the ball, play special teams, plays deep safety,
play strong safety. So if there's any Belichick still in
that draft room, I'm telling you that that Vika is
gonna be high on their board and a lot of
teams at the combine, I think at his pro day,
he's going to have asked him to work out at
running back and do some running back drills as well,
(21:20):
so they see him as somebody that can play both
sides of the ball and that that screams Patriots.
Speaker 9 (21:25):
So it is if it still goes up, just I'll
throw up a couple and you know, Jalen Simpson's a guy,
a later guy, feel like they could potentially be that
free saft. He's just really small and I want to
like him more than I do, but I threw him
in there. Last one I would just say is Tyler
Owens from Texas Tech, who's a low experienced kind of guy,
only at twelve starts, but a plus special teams kind
of a guy, hard hitter, you know, just kind of
(21:45):
like we're looking day three here, we're looking for developmental
guys who can play special teams. There were just a
couple that kind of jumped out at me and anybody else.
You guys got share.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
I had new been one of the top ones just
as a ball hawk, But I don't think that he's
gonna be in Foxborough anytime soon.
Speaker 10 (22:00):
He seems to be the consensus number one safety now
that Kitchens didn't have a great combine. But I'm still
on the Kitchens bandwagon. I don't want to overreact. The
film is too good to just sit there and say
that because he had a bad day in Indy that
he's not.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
A good player.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
So those are the two guys that are probably gonna
be near the top of the safety class. But no,
you know, there's no Antoine Winfield junior. There's no you know,
top dog in this safety class. I wouldn't say that
was a consensus, you know, first round type of guy.
Speaker 9 (22:28):
All right, well that's gonna do it for our defensive
back segment. And now we're gonna switch to a bigger
picture thing, which I had a chance to talk with
Daniel Jeremiah of the NFL notework, really getting a breakdown
of all the Patriots draft needs, what they're gonna do
with three, the trade down possibilities, late round fits. Went
through all that with DJ and check that out now.
All right, so excited to be joined by Daniel Jeremiah.
Now DJ, Patriots sitting at three. Overall, it seems like
(22:51):
we're kind of I know, you took Jayden Daniels in
your latest mock draft. Everybody I think is kind of
accepted Drake may or jay and Daniels. That seems like
the most popular pick. Just what do you see in
those two guys. What could fans here expect if if
you were to drop one of those guys. Do you
think they're ready to come in and play right away?
Do you think they have to sit?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I think they could both come in and play. I
think for sure, let's start with Jayden Daniels, and let's
start with that one. He's started a zillion games, started
fifty plus games in college. He's older, he's mature, he's
been through adversity, so you know, those are the things
you kind of look at when you're you know, okay,
this guy canna be able to survive some of these
these speed bumps along their way here. I think he
(23:28):
would be fine. I think also with him the athleticism
to be able to buy time and as he gets
more comfortable in the passing game that they're going to
deploy there. I think you've you've got ways to generate
offense as he's still gonna, you know, even though he's
played a lot of college games, learn how to read
NFL defenses and get adjusted there. I think his legs
by him some time, So I think you could absolutely
(23:49):
get him out there. You know what you like about him, Look,
the accuracy, especially over the top. He's got unbelievable touch.
He played with confidence this year. I mean they was
so many slot fades that they hit. They were just
you know, one after another after another, perfect over the
shoulder throws. And then when things aren't there, you know,
he can go make things happen with his legs. So
(24:10):
that's him as a player. Why I think he'd be
fine going right into the mix.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
Drake.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
May you know prototype you get the big physical athletic dude,
who can you know? To me, he can make every
type of throw. And I mean that not just like
velocity wise, he has the arm strength to do that.
I mean you'll see him layer the ball, He'll take,
take some some steam off the ball, touch it up.
He can get those over underthrows going. He got into
(24:35):
some bad habits this year, some pressure. He's drifting away,
a little bit better job of getting his feet set.
But I don't think I've seen anything from him, and
I don't believe I've seen anything from him that would say, Okay,
this guy really needs a lot of time. There's some
things to work on, some things to clean up. But again,
another realm mentally and physically tough kid.
Speaker 8 (24:54):
So if we don't take a quarterback there.
Speaker 9 (24:56):
You know, everybody's kind of considering do they trade down,
and it's I think it's a you know, with the
whole at tackle, at receiver.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
I mean, these classes are loaded at both those positions.
Speaker 9 (25:04):
Yeah, I think you trade down, though, it's just it's
hard to see where they're picking thirty four those tackles
are gonna kind of go. It feels like, you know,
even some of the receivers. I know that it's a
deep class, but what do you see maybe be a
package that the Patriots will consider to trade down with,
and you know what, it makes sense maybe for them
to try to hit that tackle class near the top
or or some of those receivers.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, there's a lot of different scenarios you can kick around.
I mean, you don't have to potentially go that far.
I mean, if you look at the Giants as a
team that's been mentioned as a quarterback team, whoever their
guy is, that could be something where if you're you know,
if you're the Patriots, you're like, you know, we really
like four quarterbacks, but we also have these other needs
that you mentioned. If we were to go to six,
(25:43):
there's a chance, you know, there's there's a you know,
there's a chance maybe the fourth quarterback is there. If not,
you have to be comfortable with the fact of, Okay,
well I'm gonna get you know, I might have a
chance to get the best offensive tackle in the draft,
or I can get one of the top two wide
receivers in this draft. That's that, you know, that's option
while picking up all these other resources to fill some
of these holes. So that would one that would be
(26:05):
intriguing to me. I think everybody's mentioned the Vikings as
a team that would, you know, love to move up.
They acquired that second first round pick from Houston to
be able to go do that. So eleven, you're gonna
miss out on top three wide outs, they're gone. You're
gonna probably miss out in the first two, maybe even
three tackles. So yeah, that one, I would I mean
to me, it's sticking pick is the smartest thing to do.
(26:27):
And if for some reason you are going to trade down,
I don't know that I would want to go beyond six.
If I was New England.
Speaker 9 (26:32):
You mentioned four quarterbacks. JJ McCarthy kind of you know,
getting a little buzz about him. Why do you think
that is? What about him? Is his kind of made
him rise here after the combine, Well.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I think there's you know, a lot of times we
talk about guys rising, guys haven't had a chance to
do him yet. And I think he wasn't one of
those name brand players that people assume would come out
this year over last offseason. So if you're a decision
maker on personnel side, you probably hadn't watched him over
the summer, and then you get an of this year,
You've got your whole host of candidates for quarterbacks with
(27:04):
the assumption is he's probably going to go back to school.
If you're loosely following it, you're like, yeah, he's not
posting really big numbers, so he's maybe, you know, kind
of hiding in playing sight on the number one team
in the country. But I think once the season ended,
he declares, I think then people had a chance to
go back through.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
It takes a while.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I was talking about this somebody the other day. It takes
a while to get comfortable with him. It's like an
acquired taste where you know, you watch a game, you
watch another game like, Okay, I don't know, has he
done much here. I've saw a couple of good throws.
But then when you piece the whole thing together, specifically
when you do the cutups, when you watch like every
third and seven plus throw and you okay, this is
(27:42):
this is where you're facing challenging defenses that know you're
going to throw the football, and you see him, he deals.
He his third and seven reel is good or better
than any quarterback in this draft class. So that's why
I think it took a little time. It wasn't just
a cut and dry, easy evaluation.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
I mentioned kind of the three big needs quarterback, tackle, wide, receiver.
It just seems hard to get all three. Patriots just
signed kJ Osbourne. You know they have some depth there.
They got nine receivers on the ross. I think what's
really lacking is an outside threat. And I guess the
question really is if you don't get a receiver there
in day one, ad Mitchell, those kind of guys late
first maybe that you'd have to trade back up for.
Are there any fits you maybe see that could be
(28:18):
that developmental outside guy that you could get in the second,
third round kind of moving forward.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
There's a ton of wideouts when you go through this draft,
and I think it's been that way for really the
last several drafts.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
It's just what the college.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Game has given you. So you know, you talk about
a pick at thirty four, top of the second round.
You know, one of the guys who's who's you know,
got a lot of love around the league is pearsall
from Florida, and he's somebody who could play inside, could
play outside, could do a lot of different things there.
Troy Franklin would give him a speed merchant on the
outside there from Oregon who's a little lean, but he
(28:52):
has a lot of juice, a lot of explosiveness.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
But I mean, we.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Could literally go through the entire every round of the
draft and I can give you three names that are
going to be it's just there's a million of them.
So and that's one of the things that I'm struggling
with forecast in this first top ten is yes, I
have three receivers the top five players in this draft class.
And I'm sitting there going like, gosh, I wouldn't want
to pass one of these three guys. But then I'm like, yeah,
you could wait until the second, third, fourth round and
(29:16):
they're still starting caliber players there. Whereas you know, tackles,
even though it's a deep group you know, historically here
they're gone at the end of the first round, you're
it's hard to find starting tackles. They're just not going
to be there. So that's why to me, that informs
the decision a little bit and you go, Okay, maybe
I have this receiver a little bit over this tackle
or maybe a little bit over this, you know, edge
(29:38):
rusher or receiver. When you look at the receivers with
versus EDG dreshers and tackles, it's like, man, I can
get receivers anywhere, So that'll be fascinating.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
Just generally, what do you what do you feel like
when we get into Day three, late day two, Day three,
where where's the value there?
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Like?
Speaker 8 (29:52):
What are the position groups?
Speaker 9 (29:53):
You feel like a have that depth that I mean,
you know, regardless of needs, just the what are the
strongest positions there in the Day three?
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, think there's corners. I think it's a good group
of Day three corners. I also think the running backs
are all going to get pushed down. We don't have
a lot of separation there. You know, one team's top
running back might be another team's eight rink running back.
It's just there's a clump of them. So you don't
see them going the first round. There's a chance we
potentially don't even see one go in the second round.
And then now I think you see a run in
(30:21):
the third, and then I think even to early on
Day three, that fourth, fifth round, I think there's a
good number of backs and that's kind of the sweet
spot for him in this draft. So corners, running backs,
those would be the two to me. I think once
you get in day three, I think you can get starters.
Speaker 9 (30:36):
So last question one for you just obviously turnover this year,
major turnover at the coaching position, Alex van Pelt coming
in as the offensive coordinator, Drop Mayo head coach, game
plan defense. They've always been pretty flexible on that side
of the ball. Just overall, any fits that you see,
I know the Patriots are evolving, we don't know for
sure what they're going to do, but assuming they kind
of stick in real at least defensively what we've seen
from Van Pelt, any guys out there that you think
(30:56):
are kind.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Of fit from an offensive standpoint.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
Yeah, there either side of the ball, offense or defense.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I mean to me, I know that obviously Bill's not there,
but I think defensively I don't really see anything changing.
I mean, they're always you know, I think that's ingrained
in their culture and who they are. They're going to
value you know, smart, tough, vers little players. I think
they're maybe trying to get a little little faster, and
to me, you can do that not only you know,
we think about the secondary. I think again just linebackers.
(31:22):
Just get more speed, as much speed as you can
get out there on the field, and then offensively, the
identity to me is going to be about, Okay, is
are we going to stick and pick? If it's the
third guy, uh is going to be a quarterback? Then
to me, I think, you know, I think I like
the fact of bringing Hunter back to me, I have
a young quarterback. I want easy completions. So even though
(31:43):
we would like a big, a big guy in the
outside of flyer, I think it'd almost be more valuable
just adding quickness and guys that can uncover and guys
that can run after the catch and try and take
some of that off of this guy who you know,
you've got a bridge quarterback in place so he doesn't
have to go out there week one. But I would
imagine if they stick and pick, we're going to see
that guys student later.
Speaker 8 (32:01):
Awesome, DJ, thanks so much for the time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Hey, no problem, good to catch up.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
All right, guys, we had a good show there. Defensive backs,
all good stuff. Next week we're gonna we're gonna wrap
up the defensive side of the ball, focus on the
front seven. Then we get to get into the offense
and all the good stuff that everybody's looking for. So,
once again, thank you for tuning in to the Patriots
Draft countdown.
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
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Welcome to an NFL Draft hosted.
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Speaker 2 (00:09):
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to the Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
What's up, everybody, We're back with another episode of Patriots
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England Patriots.
Speaker 5 (00:29):
And guys.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Today, we have an episode focusing on the defensive backs.
We have a film review from Evan Lazar, and we
also have an interview with the one and only Daniel Jeremiah.
But before we get into that, we want to go
over some weekend news and guys. We had a lot.
We got Paul Parrillo, Chris Cassidy here, we had JJ
McCarthy right to the top, very similar to some I
would say.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Zach Wilson. So what do you guys think about that?
Speaker 6 (00:51):
Yeah, not buying it. You know, on the surface, I
think JJ McCarthy has some ability. I'm not telling you
that I think that he doesn't belong in this converse
station with the other quarterbacks. I think he's got more
athleticism than he's given credit for. I think he's shown
the ability to move around in the pocket and make plays.
But you know, the most recent stuff coming out of
the owners meetings, you know, talking about possibly Washington at
(01:16):
number two, I have to think they're trying to pump
this guy's value up for some reason, maybe trying to
increase the the importance of those picks, see if you
can entice somebody to move up. But I don't see
JJ McCarthy being on par with those other guys, you know,
Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels in Drake May. I think
he's a notch below those guys.
Speaker 5 (01:36):
Sam Chris, what do you think.
Speaker 7 (01:37):
I definitely see more excuse me as like a second.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Round type of guy. I mean, he had a great
pro day. I mean nothing, nothing new there. But at
the same time, it's like this whole time he's been
pushed as that second round quarterback. You can go and
get them, you can focus on the Jane Daniels, Caleb Williams,
Drake May's of the world in the first round.
Speaker 7 (01:57):
JJ McCarthy has always.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Been that second round sort of so I don't know
what is causing all of this extra hype around it.
Speaker 7 (02:04):
I think it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I mean, he's great nobility, he didn't throw the ball
all that much at Michigan. He threw a good amount,
and he had a great receiver in Roman Wilson. But
I mean again, I don't fully see that first round
upside for him.
Speaker 6 (02:21):
Yeah, and that's basically my point with him is I
think he has ability. I probably think that you could
talk yourself into a first round pick. That's fine. I
just think he's more of a projection because of what
Chris just said. He didn't throw as much in college
as the other guys. Now he's younger, so I guess
that's a you know, a plus for him, especially if
you're looking to take him and maybe understanding that you're
(02:42):
not going to play in right away, you know, sort
to get him more acclimated to the pro game. But
I feel like the other guys had to carry their
teams JJ McCarthy one more than the other guys, but
I think he had, you know, quote unquote less to
do with it than the other guys.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
The real discussion will be if Whyington makes that pick,
what the trickle down effect will.
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Be great news, great news for the New England Patriots.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
Give gives you some options there. But guys, we also
had owner owner meetings, league meetings and some new rules
got made, so we have the kickoff changes. But the
one that kind of effects of Patriots maybe their draft
situation is the hip drop tackle. We're seen tackling kind
of taken out of the game here. So how's that
approach are you going to take.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
I don't like the rule obviously, but I mean, I
think every team's in the same boat. I don't necessarily
think it it will impact as much with the draft.
I think, you know, what I would worry about from
a defensive point of view, and I saw Juwan Bentley
was very very active on social media talking about this stuff.
You can't hit high, you can't hit low. Now you
(03:44):
can't hit in the middle. So I don't really know
what a defensive player to do. And the thing that
would bother me the most if I were an NFL
defensive player, you know.
Speaker 8 (03:52):
And I could be.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
I mean, it's it's not a stretch, But what will
bother me the most in all seriousness, would be what
are the comments coming out of those meetings about you
might not see it as much with flags on the field,
but you're gonna see it with fines.
Speaker 8 (04:07):
Yeah, that would really bug me if I.
Speaker 6 (04:09):
Were, you know, especially like a safety, you know, having
a deal with these huge tight ends.
Speaker 8 (04:14):
You're trying to figure out a way to get them
on the ground.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
If you're like a Marcus Jones size player and you
got Derek Henry running at you, what are you supposed
to do?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It's gonna be interesting. I think I want to sort
of compare it to the pass interference penalty that was revoked.
Speaker 7 (04:28):
Thankfully, I hope that.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
The flag is to be thrown isn't going to be
thrown as much as that pass interference flag was. It's
tough to overturn things like that, and also not that
you'd be able to overturn it, but that's a tough penalty.
And that's they're just playing football. They're going in for
a normal tackle.
Speaker 7 (04:45):
There.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
They've been taught this since they were in second grade.
This is how you hit, and it's it's it's upsetting, honestly,
in my opinion.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
You're keeping the head out of the hit, you're leading
with your shoulder, you're targeting the mid section exactly, but
you're rolling in a way that they don't like, you know,
unwaiting yourself. I just think you're really asking for a
lot of trouble and trying to adjudicate that. I think
it's gonna be difficult. I think you're going to see
uh plays that are going to impact games on routine tackles.
(05:17):
And I know it's all about player safety, and I
would certainly never advocate anything that's not in the name
of player safety. It's it's a violent game, and I
understand it. I think this one's tough. I think the
kickoff one tease, this makes a little bit more sense.
It's gonna be a little different. It's gonna be jarring
to people who haven't seen it. Psychos like Tease and
I we we watch a little spring football, so we've
(05:38):
seen this. We've seen XFL games, We've seen this kickoff
a little bit. I think it's going to be really
really an adjustment though for people who haven't.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
And it also gets rid of the surprise on sidekick
now because now you need to they got to do something,
and so we'll see what happens with that. Chris the
guy things to say about that.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, I mean, I kind of like the kickoff setup.
I think, you know, I would have loved to have
seen a Slater in this type of role to see
what more of an impact he could have had, because
he was that constant gunner for the Patriots, just sprinting
down the sideline, gets to the ball first. And now
you don't really have that. Now it's more of a
scrum rugby style of play, and I think that'll, in
(06:18):
my opinion, draw a little bit more interest on the
opening kickoff because usually when you're watching a game, if
you're at home, you're gonna go get beer.
Speaker 6 (06:26):
You just explain it real quick. You're still kicking off
from the thirty five, but the rest of the kickoff
team is now up at the thirty five thirty five
within five to ten yards of everybody on the receiving team,
with the exception of the two returners. You have to
have two returners in the quote unquote landing area. So
(06:47):
basically nineteen of the twenty two players that are on
the field for that play will now be aligned within
five to ten yards of each other, which is ostensibly
gonna cut down on those violent hits that take place
in space. You know, with a guy running with a
full head of steam. So that one I can understand
the player safety, you know, I get that, And they're
(07:08):
trying to get returns back in the game because the result.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Now last year bounds the whole time they were.
Speaker 6 (07:13):
Yeah, and there's also different touchback limitations that as you
go as well.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
So then we also got Coach Mayo saying, looks like
big Mike is gonna be playing right tackle, So that's what.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
We're starting, he said, yeah, he did say he would.
He could be moving them around.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
It looks like it's a big option.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
So that might change how we approach drafting alignment and
what what round we do it, And hopefully we do
do it because we need one.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Maybe maybe they're gonna draft they're going to keep him
at right tackle because they're gonna draft Michael Penis, and
that'll be the blind side to think of that.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I mean talking about picks though, kind of going back
to the JJ McCarthy discussion. I know we're kind of
off of it, but he's a guy that threw the
ball a million times in Washington. You can see his arm,
you can see his uh progress throughout the season, and
he's still semi mobile. I mean, you worry about his
injuries here and then, but like that, that's the type
of person I would see in that like solidified second
(08:05):
round role, like maybe moving up into the first whereas
JJ I don't really see that.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Yeah, you know, got you well anything else.
Speaker 6 (08:12):
On the weekend, we had some minor little uniform Yeah,
you were very excited.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, we're gonna let you it's been a long time, Chris.
Speaker 5 (08:20):
I don't know if you know.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Pats are getting the captain patch on the New Jersey
so you know, we did a couple of years ago.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
It works out differently.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
But yeah, other than that, guys, we got a good
episode coming up with the defensive backs. As I said,
we also got a film breakdown and an interview with
Daniel Jeremiah.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
So let's get into the show.
Speaker 9 (08:38):
All right, we're here talking defensive backs today, guys. Not
a huge need for the Patriots. I think we can
kind of get specific. We'll talk about some of the
big guys, but overall, Patriots drafted Christian Goanzalees last year.
They got Jonathan Jones coming back, but maybe some questions
in the slot.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
It's safety.
Speaker 9 (08:53):
We've seen Kyle Duggar kind of move into a little
bit more of that Devin mccordy role. Probably talk a
little bit free safety stuff. But first guy, I just
want to talk off the top of and Evan. When
we were in the at the Combine and Indy, we
talked about Cooper to Gene and if Bill Belichick was
still here, Cooper de Gen will probably be the pick
at some point just because of.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
How versatile he is. He's a really good athlete too.
Speaker 10 (09:13):
Yeah, he's basically Marcus Jones, but like a bigger version,
you know, has a little bit more of those traditional
outside cornerback traits. If you want to play him there,
play the slot, play outside, play a little safety, probably
play special teams, probably could play offense. Like you know,
He's just one of those guys that is as versatile
as as they come, and a rare, a rare type
(09:35):
of athlete, you know, at that position to be able
to do all those different types of things. I think
his natural home at the NFL is going to be
outside corner, but he can basically play anywhere you want
him to play.
Speaker 9 (09:45):
So I forgot to introduce the whole panel to of course,
we got Chris Cassidy's back sitting in for for our
friend Paul Perillo, Maattist Bauman of course you know me
and me and Evan Sorry crystill here going to you.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
What do you got a cornerback? Who who tickled your fancy?
Speaker 7 (09:58):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
You'll have a guys, Terry Arnold and kool Aid McKinstry.
I mean, both solid cornerbacks. Probably could be first round
guys realistically. I mean I have on here. I mean
the thing with kool Aid and my making falls is
Jones fast in his foot. It's always foot injuries. You
don't want to mess with those.
Speaker 7 (10:16):
Nice info. I mean that was combined info. We found
that out together.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
But yeah, I know those are really serious. I mean
foot injuries they go long way.
Speaker 7 (10:26):
I mean you gotta not a.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Lot of blood flow to the foot, So you gotta.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Four times not a lot of blood flow to the foot.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
Yeah, I was gonna say about Arnold. I mean, Arnold
sixty three tackles this past season. He's a go getter.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
He's a downhill defensive back, like he'll meet you at
the ball at all times. So I really like what
Arnold does. So that's two guys that I really really.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Caught my near the top. Probably not Patriots.
Speaker 10 (10:54):
I would say, yeah, Tyran Arnold is probably the consensus
CB one in this class, maybe top ten, top fifteen pick.
His ball skills are exceptional as well. I think he
has something like eighty targets in college and he's broken
up thirty of them, or like something crazy like that
really good downhill player as Chris said, he's probably him
or Quannon Mitchell from Toledo, or there are the two
(11:15):
guys that are going to be the first corners off
the board.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
Can we also celebrate kool Aid a meme finally making
it to the league. I remember go up was like,
you know, best names, but yeah, kool Aid and tarry
On Arnold. I was watching the LSU Bama highlights and
you know, Neighbors had a crazy game, but most of
his big catches were against the safety is just breaking
three broken, broken coverages. I also love Cooper de gene
as I say that boy nice, he can hit safety.
(11:39):
I could also move into safety. I wonder if he's
gonna end up being like Devin mccordy, maybe starting off
a cornerback and then potentially moving to safety later in
his career. I also want to shout out Nat Wiggins,
very very physical likes get involved, break up the pass
and very like he likes to nag the receiver.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
That's kind of what you want with your cornerbacks. There.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I got another one here.
Speaker 9 (11:56):
I think all of us have some familiarity with him.
He's local kid. Mike Saying and Bristol were talking to
you guys pregame. Everybody was kind of mentioning him. We
did did sit in back of his parents on the
way back. I gotta the great people it was. It
was really cool. They were very proud of their son.
But you know, I don't know if it's gonna line
up Evan like with him, and yeah, he's kind to
go early, but he fits, you know, And I mean
(12:18):
he played offense just tenacious, six interceptions, two of them
returned for touchdown. If there was one guy that you
could kind of like slip in, what a great fit, he'd.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Be a good one here.
Speaker 10 (12:28):
Yeah, he's There's a lot of these types of players
in this draft, unfortunately for the Patriots, because I don't
think the need in the slot is as big as
maybe another rotational body on the outside. Right now, you
have you have obviously Christian Gonzalez, but in terms of
size on the outside physicality on the outside, he still
kind of could use another guy there, whereas in the slot,
(12:50):
you know, you probably think Jonathan Jones is gonna play
a lot of snaps there. Marcus Jones coming back, uh,
Saint Streel to me is is a nickel and this class,
just as a general statement on the cornerback class, there
are a ton of nickels in this class. Like that's
really where it's strong, is a slot corner, especially on
Day two, so he probably is the top of that,
(13:11):
but there's you know, a whole list of them after that.
So this cornerback class is interesting. I don't think it's
as top heavy as past years, you know, I don't
think I think last year the top guys like a
Christian Zalez, you know, like the kid the Seahawks drafted
who have now Witherspoon, Like, I think those guys are
probably would be better than some of these guys in
(13:33):
this class. But ten to forty is really deep. You know,
there's probably gonna be a handful of corners taken in
that sort of range. So I'm curious to see when
these corners start coming off the board. Because of all
the offensive talent at the top of the first round.
It could be Terry on Arnold's the first corner at
eleven or twelve or something like that, which is in
(13:54):
most years that's pretty low.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Yeah, I also want to see it's like if the
Patch are gonna make it. Personally, I don't think they
can make that pick before the fourth if they were
to take a corner. And so you gotta see if
maybe Saint Astril or Elijah Jones somebody's around there, maybe
take a flyer on them. But it just that pick
can't happen before the fourth.
Speaker 10 (14:10):
Yeah, Elijah Jones is on my list. So I'm at
the Senior Bowl. Long freak athlete, maybe a little bit undersized,
you know, not not a guy that's that's huge in
terms of mass, but very athletic in a really good length.
Can play on the outside, maybe play a little bit
of safety. The other name I wrote down was Cam
Hart from Notre Dame, who had a really good Senior
(14:32):
Bowl week. He similar size, but more physical in press
man coverage. If you want a true outside bump and
run corner in the third or fourth round, he's a
little grabby. He doesn't have a great long speed, so
he's probably not going to be that high pick. I
would look at cam Hart my number one core. I
love tierro On Arnold think is a good player. I
love Quinion Mitchell from Toledo. That guy I think is
(14:54):
going to be a hell of a pro. So I
would say that those are the three guys that you know,
different tiers, right, you know, Quinon Mitchell for first round pick,
cam Hart day two guy, maybe third or fourth round,
Elijah Jones maybe slightly after that.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
I mean there's two guys that if Pats wanted to
go at cornerback route, I think that stand out to me.
Second third day type players Kamari Lassiter. I think Kamari
is a solid player out of Georgia. And I really
like Kyrie Jackson out of Oregon yep. Just played his
twenty twenty three season with Oregon All Pack twelve first team.
You know, he's got great tackling grade Pro Football Focus
(15:29):
eighty four eighty four point three tackling. That was one
of the top tacklers at Oregon. Again, also kind of
a ball hog. Three interceptions. So Kyrie is somebody that
could fall if the Pagers wanted to go to the corner.
Speaker 10 (15:42):
They like those Oregon corners. Yeah, as well.
Speaker 9 (15:44):
Yeah, right, a couple of couple of me to throw out.
And then this is a guy that I saw the
combine and he just had the vibe. Max Melton from
from UH from Rutgers ran a four three to nine
inside outside. I just placed tough, you know, watched a
little him against Marvin Harrison Junior, did a really good job.
I think there's no question if he if he is
a slot and you know, and I mean, you know,
just to offer a different point of view, and we're
(16:06):
recording this at a certain point, I'm kind of expecting
and I'm hoping that the Patriots signed somebody likes Stefon Gilmore.
As what Evan said, that third rotational outside guy. I'm
not exactly sold entirely yet on Marcus Jones in the slot,
so I am a little bit more open to some
of these slot guys. Jarvis Brownley from Louisville is another
one that caught my eye. Good movement skills, just aggressive
kind of press man. And the last one I'll just
(16:28):
mention here in the cornerback class. Of course, we got
to get a TCU guy in is Josh Newton, who
over four thousand snaps, experienced guy, again another guy who
played some inside placed him outside. I think he just
offers some versatility the guys.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Anybody else do you guys know Josh Newton's a good shout.
Speaker 10 (16:42):
I watched him live at at that game that I
keep getting to reference somehow because we keep doing this
on purpose.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
You should have expensed that whole thing.
Speaker 10 (16:49):
Yeah right, I mean I should have been clocked in.
I mean, come on, yeah, No, he's a good player.
Maybe a little bit, you know, he needs to add
some place rank I would say to his game, but
I could see them. Look, Maximultain's a good poll to
really good slot corner, I think as well. I mentioned
all these slot corners, him, Sandstrill. You know, those guys
definitely all fit that same bill. Aggressive players that can tackle,
(17:11):
play at the point of attack and the run game
and and then cover. So I think all these guys
can can do a lot of different things.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
I also like DJ James from Auburn and Kaylen Carson
from wake Forest, you know, very good tacklers, which with
the potential rule change, will see how much that affects.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
Yeah, exactly amazing.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
It was like, what is that Maybe somebody in the
later rounds just be you know, not an instant day
one starter, but somebody you can develop on the back end.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
So yeah, guys, I.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Mean I think we're all, you know, kind of on
the same page.
Speaker 9 (17:42):
I mean, it's a later it's a day late, day
two at best, probably day three kind of position. Let's
move over to the safety group though, we're again like
in the gene kind of you know, a little bit
of a safety potential. But you know, just looking at
what the Patriots have. And as we were recording Patriots
Unfiltered previous to this, they just signed j Lan Hawkins
as well, so another you know, strong safety type.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
They sure have a type. So that leads me to
continue to kind.
Speaker 9 (18:05):
Of pursue free safety types.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And you know, ballhawk guys. Maybe they don't have.
Speaker 9 (18:10):
The biggest size, but they've got the range. I'm just
gonna throw off the top. Cameron Kitchens from Miami, who
I know. I think you got to look at him
up close, right, Evan, Just I think for me, probably
gonna go too soon before the Patriots would actually want
to select him. But to me, that's one player that
you put him in, he would probably fit this rotation
pretty good.
Speaker 10 (18:26):
Yeah, I think he's one of the only defensive players
that I look at that I would say if they
took Cam Kitchens with an early pick, I wouldn't completely riot,
like you know, I think I think a little bit there.
There's some other guys that I would maybe fit that bill.
But to me, if the Patriots touch a defensive player
before the sixty eighth pick in the draft, then we're
doing something wrong. But Cam Kitchens is one of those
(18:47):
guys that I think can definitely play that center field role.
And he didn't test very well at the combine and
that's going to be the knock on him. But in
a lot of ways, his combine and his whole just
pre projection profile reminds me a lot of Brian Branch
where you know, he didn't test very well either, but
he's just a dog like, he's just a football player
and you're gonna put him out there and you know
(19:08):
that he's gonna play football well, but maybe not be
an Olympian Like I don't really care, right, So Cam
Kitchen's definitely on the board for sure for the Patriots. Also,
Lonzo high Smith connection with him, so I think that
there's a lot to like about him and you put
him back there at the perch in center field, and
then you have Dugger in the box and Pepper's you know,
(19:28):
over the nickel or whatever. Now you're now you got
a complete secondary. Everybody's got a home that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
You got Chris, you got some safeties for us.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
The only one that jumped out me was Kaylen Bullock,
other center fielder. He's I mean, he's a solid guy.
Couldn't cover three, cover one. Uh, you know, you just
need a guy then kind of oversee things in that defense.
Speaker 7 (19:48):
I think you know that was sort of a Dugger.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Role every place, trying to knock the ball out, which
is unreal.
Speaker 10 (19:54):
Yeah, yeah, he's We were talking to Jordan Reed at
the combine about this and I said, who are the
center field holders in this draft and he said, Cam
Kitchens is tier one and then Bullock from USC is
tier two. So he's definitely some of one of those
players that flashes on film that sideline to sideline ability
from center field.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So the two things, first of all, love Javon Bullard
from Georgia. I mean, that guy's a beast.
Speaker 10 (20:17):
That guy's gonna kill somebody on the field.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
And that's what you want with your safety. And he's
going to be against the best of the best in
the SEC. But I also want to talk about its
kind of interesting how this year there were so many
like high end safeties just on the free agent market.
So it's really going to make you wonder how these
teams value drafting one of these players in this position
because it's kind of the running back of the defense
almost of some of the hits these guys take.
Speaker 10 (20:38):
So yeah, it's interesting how the Patriots seemed to zig
in that category. They seem to still value safeties lester
to the league not so much, and you know they're
willing to transition Tag Dugger and you know, stuff like that.
So the last one that I would I would mention
is from Utah. Who another guy that can play multiple
(20:58):
run positions and play some running back. I play both
sides of the ball, play special teams, plays deep safety,
play strong safety. So if there's any Belichick still in
that draft room, I'm telling you that that Vika is
gonna be high on their board and a lot of
teams at the combine, I think at his pro day,
he's going to have asked him to work out at
running back and do some running back drills as well,
(21:20):
so they see him as somebody that can play both
sides of the ball and that that screams Patriots.
Speaker 9 (21:25):
So it is if it still goes up, just I'll
throw up a couple and you know, Jalen Simpson's a guy,
a later guy, feel like they could potentially be that
free saft. He's just really small and I want to
like him more than I do, but I threw him
in there. Last one I would just say is Tyler
Owens from Texas Tech, who's a low experienced kind of guy,
only at twelve starts, but a plus special teams kind
of a guy, hard hitter, you know, just kind of
(21:45):
like we're looking day three here, we're looking for developmental
guys who can play special teams. There were just a
couple that kind of jumped out at me and anybody else.
You guys got share.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
I had new been one of the top ones just
as a ball hawk, But I don't think that he's
gonna be in Foxborough anytime soon.
Speaker 10 (22:00):
He seems to be the consensus number one safety now
that Kitchens didn't have a great combine. But I'm still
on the Kitchens bandwagon. I don't want to overreact. The
film is too good to just sit there and say
that because he had a bad day in Indy that
he's not.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
A good player.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
So those are the two guys that are probably gonna
be near the top of the safety class. But no,
you know, there's no Antoine Winfield junior. There's no you know,
top dog in this safety class. I wouldn't say that
was a consensus, you know, first round type of guy.
Speaker 9 (22:28):
All right, well that's gonna do it for our defensive
back segment. And now we're gonna switch to a bigger
picture thing, which I had a chance to talk with
Daniel Jeremiah of the NFL notework, really getting a breakdown
of all the Patriots draft needs, what they're gonna do
with three, the trade down possibilities, late round fits. Went
through all that with DJ and check that out now.
All right, so excited to be joined by Daniel Jeremiah.
Now DJ, Patriots sitting at three. Overall, it seems like
(22:51):
we're kind of I know, you took Jayden Daniels in
your latest mock draft. Everybody I think is kind of
accepted Drake may or jay and Daniels. That seems like
the most popular pick. Just what do you see in
those two guys. What could fans here expect if if
you were to drop one of those guys. Do you
think they're ready to come in and play right away?
Do you think they have to sit?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I think they could both come in and play. I
think for sure, let's start with Jayden Daniels, and let's
start with that one. He's started a zillion games, started
fifty plus games in college. He's older, he's mature, he's
been through adversity, so you know, those are the things
you kind of look at when you're you know, okay,
this guy canna be able to survive some of these
these speed bumps along their way here. I think he
(23:28):
would be fine. I think also with him the athleticism
to be able to buy time and as he gets
more comfortable in the passing game that they're going to
deploy there. I think you've you've got ways to generate
offense as he's still gonna, you know, even though he's
played a lot of college games, learn how to read
NFL defenses and get adjusted there. I think his legs
by him some time, So I think you could absolutely
(23:49):
get him out there. You know what you like about him, Look,
the accuracy, especially over the top. He's got unbelievable touch.
He played with confidence this year. I mean they was
so many slot fades that they hit. They were just
you know, one after another after another, perfect over the
shoulder throws. And then when things aren't there, you know,
he can go make things happen with his legs. So
(24:10):
that's him as a player. Why I think he'd be
fine going right into the mix.
Speaker 5 (24:13):
Drake.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
May you know prototype you get the big physical athletic dude,
who can you know? To me, he can make every
type of throw. And I mean that not just like
velocity wise, he has the arm strength to do that.
I mean you'll see him layer the ball, He'll take,
take some some steam off the ball, touch it up.
He can get those over underthrows going. He got into
(24:35):
some bad habits this year, some pressure. He's drifting away,
a little bit better job of getting his feet set.
But I don't think I've seen anything from him, and
I don't believe I've seen anything from him that would say, Okay,
this guy really needs a lot of time. There's some
things to work on, some things to clean up. But again,
another realm mentally and physically tough kid.
Speaker 8 (24:54):
So if we don't take a quarterback there.
Speaker 9 (24:56):
You know, everybody's kind of considering do they trade down,
and it's I think it's a you know, with the
whole at tackle, at receiver.
Speaker 8 (25:02):
I mean, these classes are loaded at both those positions.
Speaker 9 (25:04):
Yeah, I think you trade down, though, it's just it's
hard to see where they're picking thirty four those tackles
are gonna kind of go. It feels like, you know,
even some of the receivers. I know that it's a
deep class, but what do you see maybe be a
package that the Patriots will consider to trade down with,
and you know what, it makes sense maybe for them
to try to hit that tackle class near the top
or or some of those receivers.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, there's a lot of different scenarios you can kick around.
I mean, you don't have to potentially go that far.
I mean, if you look at the Giants as a
team that's been mentioned as a quarterback team, whoever their
guy is, that could be something where if you're you know,
if you're the Patriots, you're like, you know, we really
like four quarterbacks, but we also have these other needs
that you mentioned. If we were to go to six,
(25:43):
there's a chance, you know, there's there's a you know,
there's a chance maybe the fourth quarterback is there. If not,
you have to be comfortable with the fact of, Okay,
well I'm gonna get you know, I might have a
chance to get the best offensive tackle in the draft,
or I can get one of the top two wide
receivers in this draft. That's that, you know, that's option
while picking up all these other resources to fill some
of these holes. So that would one that would be
(26:05):
intriguing to me. I think everybody's mentioned the Vikings as
a team that would, you know, love to move up.
They acquired that second first round pick from Houston to
be able to go do that. So eleven, you're gonna
miss out on top three wide outs, they're gone. You're
gonna probably miss out in the first two, maybe even
three tackles. So yeah, that one, I would I mean
to me, it's sticking pick is the smartest thing to do.
(26:27):
And if for some reason you are going to trade down,
I don't know that I would want to go beyond six.
If I was New England.
Speaker 9 (26:32):
You mentioned four quarterbacks. JJ McCarthy kind of you know,
getting a little buzz about him. Why do you think
that is? What about him? Is his kind of made
him rise here after the combine, Well.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I think there's you know, a lot of times we
talk about guys rising, guys haven't had a chance to
do him yet. And I think he wasn't one of
those name brand players that people assume would come out
this year over last offseason. So if you're a decision
maker on personnel side, you probably hadn't watched him over
the summer, and then you get an of this year,
You've got your whole host of candidates for quarterbacks with
(27:04):
the assumption is he's probably going to go back to school.
If you're loosely following it, you're like, yeah, he's not
posting really big numbers, so he's maybe, you know, kind
of hiding in playing sight on the number one team
in the country. But I think once the season ended,
he declares, I think then people had a chance to
go back through.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
It takes a while.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I was talking about this somebody the other day. It takes
a while to get comfortable with him. It's like an
acquired taste where you know, you watch a game, you
watch another game like, Okay, I don't know, has he
done much here. I've saw a couple of good throws.
But then when you piece the whole thing together, specifically
when you do the cutups, when you watch like every
third and seven plus throw and you okay, this is
(27:42):
this is where you're facing challenging defenses that know you're
going to throw the football, and you see him, he deals.
He his third and seven reel is good or better
than any quarterback in this draft class. So that's why
I think it took a little time. It wasn't just
a cut and dry, easy evaluation.
Speaker 9 (27:57):
I mentioned kind of the three big needs quarterback, tackle, wide, receiver.
It just seems hard to get all three. Patriots just
signed kJ Osbourne. You know they have some depth there.
They got nine receivers on the ross. I think what's
really lacking is an outside threat. And I guess the
question really is if you don't get a receiver there
in day one, ad Mitchell, those kind of guys late
first maybe that you'd have to trade back up for.
Are there any fits you maybe see that could be
(28:18):
that developmental outside guy that you could get in the second,
third round kind of moving forward.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
There's a ton of wideouts when you go through this draft,
and I think it's been that way for really the
last several drafts.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
It's just what the college.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Game has given you. So you know, you talk about
a pick at thirty four, top of the second round.
You know, one of the guys who's who's you know,
got a lot of love around the league is pearsall
from Florida, and he's somebody who could play inside, could
play outside, could do a lot of different things there.
Troy Franklin would give him a speed merchant on the
outside there from Oregon who's a little lean, but he
(28:52):
has a lot of juice, a lot of explosiveness.
Speaker 5 (28:54):
But I mean, we.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Could literally go through the entire every round of the
draft and I can give you three names that are
going to be it's just there's a million of them.
So and that's one of the things that I'm struggling
with forecast in this first top ten is yes, I
have three receivers the top five players in this draft class.
And I'm sitting there going like, gosh, I wouldn't want
to pass one of these three guys. But then I'm like, yeah,
you could wait until the second, third, fourth round and
(29:16):
they're still starting caliber players there. Whereas you know, tackles,
even though it's a deep group you know, historically here
they're gone at the end of the first round, you're
it's hard to find starting tackles. They're just not going
to be there. So that's why to me, that informs
the decision a little bit and you go, Okay, maybe
I have this receiver a little bit over this tackle
or maybe a little bit over this, you know, edge
(29:38):
rusher or receiver. When you look at the receivers with
versus EDG dreshers and tackles, it's like, man, I can
get receivers anywhere, So that'll be fascinating.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
Just generally, what do you what do you feel like
when we get into Day three, late day two, Day three,
where where's the value there?
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Like?
Speaker 8 (29:52):
What are the position groups?
Speaker 9 (29:53):
You feel like a have that depth that I mean,
you know, regardless of needs, just the what are the
strongest positions there in the Day three?
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, think there's corners. I think it's a good group
of Day three corners. I also think the running backs
are all going to get pushed down. We don't have
a lot of separation there. You know, one team's top
running back might be another team's eight rink running back.
It's just there's a clump of them. So you don't
see them going the first round. There's a chance we
potentially don't even see one go in the second round.
And then now I think you see a run in
(30:21):
the third, and then I think even to early on
Day three, that fourth, fifth round, I think there's a
good number of backs and that's kind of the sweet
spot for him in this draft. So corners, running backs,
those would be the two to me. I think once
you get in day three, I think you can get starters.
Speaker 9 (30:36):
So last question one for you just obviously turnover this year,
major turnover at the coaching position, Alex van Pelt coming
in as the offensive coordinator, Drop Mayo head coach, game
plan defense. They've always been pretty flexible on that side
of the ball. Just overall, any fits that you see,
I know the Patriots are evolving, we don't know for
sure what they're going to do, but assuming they kind
of stick in real at least defensively what we've seen
from Van Pelt, any guys out there that you think
(30:56):
are kind.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Of fit from an offensive standpoint.
Speaker 8 (30:59):
Yeah, there either side of the ball, offense or defense.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I mean to me, I know that obviously Bill's not there,
but I think defensively I don't really see anything changing.
I mean, they're always you know, I think that's ingrained
in their culture and who they are. They're going to
value you know, smart, tough, vers little players. I think
they're maybe trying to get a little little faster, and
to me, you can do that not only you know,
we think about the secondary. I think again just linebackers.
(31:22):
Just get more speed, as much speed as you can
get out there on the field, and then offensively, the
identity to me is going to be about, Okay, is
are we going to stick and pick? If it's the
third guy, uh is going to be a quarterback? Then
to me, I think, you know, I think I like
the fact of bringing Hunter back to me, I have
a young quarterback. I want easy completions. So even though
(31:43):
we would like a big, a big guy in the
outside of flyer, I think it'd almost be more valuable
just adding quickness and guys that can uncover and guys
that can run after the catch and try and take
some of that off of this guy who you know,
you've got a bridge quarterback in place so he doesn't
have to go out there week one. But I would
imagine if they stick and pick, we're going to see
that guys student later.
Speaker 8 (32:01):
Awesome, DJ, thanks so much for the time. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Hey, no problem, good to catch up.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
All right, guys, we had a good show there. Defensive backs,
all good stuff. Next week we're gonna we're gonna wrap
up the defensive side of the ball, focus on the
front seven. Then we get to get into the offense
and all the good stuff that everybody's looking for. So,
once again, thank you for tuning in to the Patriots
Draft countdown.
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