April 2, 2024 • 21 mins
In this episode of Patriots draft countdown, we break down the latest draft news and rumors from around the NFL, preview the draft's defensive front seven class and Evan Lazar breaks down Drake Maye's tape.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to an NFL draft posted by the writers of
Patriots dot Com. From now until you here the New
England Patriots Slight the Countdown is on. Welcome to the
Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light. What's up, everybody?
Welcome to another episode of Patriots Draft Countdown, brought to
you by bud Light. Bud Light Easy to Drink, Easy
(00:27):
to Enjoy, the official beer sponsor of the New England Patriots.
And we're back, guys, just a little over three weeks
to go to the draft. We've rifled through a lot
of prospect videos and we're here just to kick off
this show talking about some of the latest draft news.
I think we're kind of settling into silly season. Paul
feels like this is when people start to, you know,
you hear things like what that doesn't make sense? They
love that guy, most notably with Tony Pauline's report yesterday
(00:49):
that Elliott wolf enamored with JJ McCarthy, the hot new
name here on the mock draft circuit. So what do
you take away from that anything?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I don't take much in terms of what it means
directly to the Patriots. I think that Elliott Wolf and
the you know, the cast of thousands that he's evidently
been traveling with while you know, going on to watch
all these guys. I think McCarthy's an interesting prospect only
because of what I've been saying all along. I just
think he has the most unknown because I just haven't
seen him be able to do all the things that
(01:20):
all the other guys had to do for their teams
in college. So I think there's a skill set there,
you know. I think he's got you know, good enough size.
I think he runs tough. I think he's pretty athletic.
I think he's shown that he can move around and
make plays outside the pocket. But like I said, I
just haven't seen him be able to, you know, put
a team on his back and have to throw the
ball thirty five forty forty five times to ensure victory.
(01:43):
I've seen all the other guys have to do that
from time to time.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Van, I'm gonna tee up. And the last episode we
showed a film breakdown, you did a McCarthy. You know,
we talked so much about guys like Mac Jones and
Joe Burrow and these guys that come from LSU and
Alabama that have superstar casts around them, and maybe not
quite the case with JJ McCarthy. Do you think he's
get I think downgraded before you know, think if he
was playing on one of those teams, Yeah, I'd be
talking a little bit higher about it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Well, that's what a lot of people that like JJ
McCarthy will tell you. I'll just say this along the
same lines as Paul. Last week it was that the
Commanders are enamored with JJ McCarthy. This week it's now
the Patriots that are enamored with JJ McCarthy. So I
think that people are just trying to figure out where
to put JJ McCarthy. Like, obviously he's a guy that's
going to go a little bit higher than maybe we
(02:25):
thought a couple months ago. He's going to probably go
in the top half of the first round, But is
it going to be as early as two or three
or are we more talking about in that mac Jones?
Can he Pickett range in the teens? I would just
say that proceed with caution this time of year. This
time last year, Will Levis was a top ten pick.
In twenty twenty one, Mac Jones was a San Francisco
(02:46):
forty nine er at number three overall. Then we get
to the draft and they end up finding their level
and they end up going in a more comfortable range
for their skill set. I think that there's a lot
to like about JJ McCarthy in terms of the talent
and just the ball of clay that he is. You know,
he does have the ability, like Paul said, to move
get outside the pocket. He's elusive in the pocket, put
(03:08):
down a fantastic three cone times. So he's got that
agility and that jitterbugness about him in the pocket. And
he's got a plus arm. I wouldn't say it's an
elite arm, but it's a better than average NFL arm
as well, So you have some things to work with.
But there's a lot of things I think in his
game that needs seasoning, a post snap decision making probably
being the biggest one, but also accuracy in terms of
(03:30):
ball placement down the field too. So I'm not a
JJ McCarthy guy. Everybody knows that, but I'm trying to
open my mind and not be as critical about it
because clearly there are people in the league that have
a lot of love for him.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
McCarthy not at all.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
I think it's smoke screen season, and I think it's
a very risky pick to take him. I don't think
he's better than the other three guys. I think it's
risky to take him at three, and I think it's
gonna be pretty funy when it just goes Caleb, Jaden,
Drake and it is boring, but sometimes it's what has
to happen.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So that's how I wanted to go. And you know,
I put out my latest mock draft, So yeah, Drake
May my guy. You know, I'd love them to go
with him. And we've got coming up next here on
Draft Countdown, we have a full film segment where Evan
breaks down Drake May as well, just like he did
with McCarthy. So, guys, let's just kind of hash out
these two a little bit right now, because it's like
the more things change, the more they say the same Paul,
(04:19):
you said a couple of shows ago, you know, on Unfiltered,
we've been talking about the same stuff. Ultimately, does it
just kind of still boil down to date Daniels or May?
I think it does.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
And I think that particular thing I think boils down
to your particular taste and I think that there's a
lot to like about both guys. And that's why I
said some nice things about McCarthy too, because Evan's right,
just because we don't necessarily look at McCarthy in that
light doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be talked about.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, like that.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So I like the idea of May because I just
feel like there's so much upside there. Now you can
make an argument that, you know, the opposite is not
what you're looking for. If it doesn't wor work out,
you don't really have much to fall back on. I
just feel like he had to do a lot of
things for that team last year, and I want that.
(05:09):
I want a guy who sort of had to be
the guy and how to have it all on his shoulders.
And you know, I don't think it was great. But
when you're talking about, you know, well he failed, well
what was North Carolina last year, like like eight and
four or something like. It's not like they went, you know,
two and twelve. You know, when when it was all
on his shoulders, he still won some games, didn't win
(05:31):
as many as a lot of people thought he might,
So you know that's how it worked.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I like May.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I think a lot of them, but certainly I understand
the upside with with Daniels too. I know evan't got
a chance to see him both up close and personal.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But yeah, we'll talk about the Pro days. You were
down there, Yeah, Tour of the South, So yeah, right,
it was a fun time.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I think the biggest thing with Jaden Daniels is that
you are really banking on his athleticism and his running
ability being his superpower. Because what I saw from him
throwing the football was okay. I wasn't blown away, though.
I didn't look at him and say, Wow, this arm
talent is just fantastic. He's got a really big arm
and he can kind of just flick the wrists and
(06:11):
generate velocity and this that the other thing. I kind
of felt like it was an NFL arm We go
out to training camp and stuff like that, and we
see guys throw all the time, and I didn't look
at his arm talent and sit there and say, this
is so much better than Mac Jones or this is
so much better than Bailey ZAPPI maybe a little bit
more control on the ball than those guys at times,
(06:33):
but not blown away. Whereas with Drake May he just
has a handcannon. I mean that guy off platform, off
one leg, rolling to his left, rolling to his right,
It doesn't make a difference. He can just flick at
sixty five yards in the air. And I was standing
right there when he dropped it in to tes Walker
on the sideline sixty five yards on a dime too,
(06:53):
and I was just like, man, this is just that's different.
That's a different trait. And if you were looking, if
you still are of the of the mind that you
need to win with your arm in this league, and
eventually all of the running and off platform stuff is
all great, well and good, But the person that's gonna
sit in the pocket and be able to pick a
part of defense is the guy that's gonna hold the
(07:14):
trophy at the end of the day. I just look
at Drake May and think that that is an easier
path for him to get to that point. With Daniels,
I think you're really counting on the whole package, the
running ability, the arm and it all coming together at
this level for that ability to go on a season
like he had last year at LSU.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
First, I want to hear more about Tess Walker, but
I think Jaden Daniels, I don't think we're ready for him.
I think I know Evan's mentioned this before, he had
Malik Neighbors, he had Brian Thomas, Like, I think he
needs a bit more structure, and I think, honestly, the
Commanders have a more set offense right now for him
than the Pats would. And Drake May, just as I said,
you can sin for a while. He has the traits,
(07:53):
he has an absolute cannon. So I think May's the
guy and I really hope he ends up here.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, when it comes to elevator the players around them,
I think that Jayden Daniels could distribute the ball to
good receivers no problem. But when it comes to actually
taking that an offense that maybe doesn't have great receivers
yet and elevating it to be on what it is,
I just think Drake May brings more to the table
in that respect.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
All Right, we're here now talking the defensive front seven guys.
We're gonna include three different position groups here, because let's
face it, the Patriots need offense, and I would make
an argument that they need some front seven help in
the not too distant future, but for this year, just
running down real quick, I mean Lawrence guy departed. However,
they did sign arm On Watts kind of could fill
that position. You got ke On White from last year
(08:36):
stepping up there, but otherwise it's kind of the same
front we know the year Christian Barmore had daniel Lequallee
a rotational piece coming back at linebacker. You got Bentley
and Tavani Tavai Sioni Taki Taki comes in, Rayquo McMillan
coming back from an injury. I'm just listening all these
guys off to show some of the depth. The one
position I do think is a concern though, is along
the edge, and so it's not impossible to see them
(08:58):
going in that position early on. But I'd like to
just start with like the four top guys I think
of that group, which is Jared Verse, Chop Robinson, Dallas
Turner and lie To Latsu. Four guys who all really
fit kind of the Patriots prototype. Along the edge. We
could potentially make, you know, a good three down rotational
piece alongside Matthew Judon, josh Ucha, Anthony Jenning. Still feels
(09:21):
like they were a little light there, but tis they're
probably not gonna be able to take one of those guys.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Yeah, I'm kind of looking at this like we talked
about the DBS. I hope we don't take somebody at
the defensive front seven before the fourth. But Jared Verse,
I mean we saw him Indianapolis that kill Roy shout
out to their bread sticks. But that guy is a
unit and it's I said it earlier. It's just it's
a shame that we had such a tough year because
he would love to see these guys on the Patriots,
but we just this isn't what we need right now.
(09:46):
So but Jared Verse to the top of the crop
right there.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
For me, He's actually one that I'm really high on
and I love his story, you know, coming from a
lower level, you know, out of nowhere from Albany and
you know, being just a star at a level like
Florida State. So I agree with tis really like the player.
Don't really see much of a chance of the Patriots
being in position now. Maybe if you're talking about trading
(10:10):
down in some of the dominoes that you kind of
traded down with an eye on don't fall into place.
I think that's a guy that he screened Patriot when
you watch him, But again, I think very very little
to no chance.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, I felt like Dallas Turner two, Alabama guy. I
mean another one that would easily fit lot to the
guys who have good stories. I mean, seemed like his
career was going to end the neck injury, comes back,
very athletic, very long.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Lot two is one of my favorite guys because I
don't watch a ton of games, but I'm watching. I'm
watching the CLA game and this guy a lot too is.
I think it might have been against USC and he
made a couple of plays like back to back. I'm like, oh,
I'm going to keep that guy in mind. Yeah, Like
two minutes later the guy goes, no, he's gonna be
a top fifteen pick. That's why I'm like nothing that's
by Paul.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
He's your prototypical edge rusher. I mean thirteen sacks in
the season, just absolutely dominated this year to UCLA and
I mean not a free to catch the football. Two
interceptions on the season as well. But he's a guy
that is going to set the edge when you need
him to. Same with Jared Verus, like easily, in my opinion,
the two top guys in that draft. Yeah, that you
(11:13):
could slide from.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
That's what they need like, you know, I think they.
I mean it's just it's an underrated need and that's
why I like if the were to happen early, I
wouldn't totally hate it. The other guy I'll just mention
is Darius Robinson from Zoo. Watched him during Senior Bowl practices.
I mean, he is I just wrote he's a handful.
I mean wherever he lines up, he can play a
number of different spots. I don't know if he's going
to make it out of the first round, but he's
another one who maybe not quite in that upper tier,
(11:37):
but if he were to slip, I could maybe consider
it there in the second round. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
No, he's great, honestly, always in the backfield, just always,
just his presence is felt. And fourteen tackle for loss
in the season led the team, so it's it's a
great number.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So just before we move on from the edge guys,
I'm curious what you think in terms of the style
of edge player if the Patriots again, I think we
all agree we're talking day three yep. Yeah, because I
think that you know the needs are there, but would
you want to you know, a bigger edge guy, maybe
you know Anthony Jennings, physical edge setter or would you
(12:13):
want maybe a smaller two fifty you know, pass rusher.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
A great question, Paul, I mean I love that you
kind of you kind of set me up because I have,
you know, two later around options. I think the cover
kind of both those options.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
You know, Nelson Caesar is one who's kind of been
on my radar for a little bit. He's kind of
more that prototypical, has the power, you know as a captain,
but you know, more like kind of the edge setter type,
maybe need some work on the pass rush. It's a
little bit more Jennings than Uce. But then Jalen Harrell
from Michigan, I mean everybody watched Michigan's defense this year.
He's another one who you know, kind of reminds me
(12:47):
of Uce a little bit. Maybe not quite so specific
to being a pass rusher, a designated pass rusher like
Uch is with his you know o J speed around
the edge. But I just was really impressed with kind
of Harold's athleticism. He's kind of shifty, you know, he
can kind of beat guys and make guys miss.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
If you're taking to edge rusher, I want to get
after the quarterback. That's why I like Mohammed Kamara Colorado State.
I don't know if you guys watched the one in
Colorado game. Everybody watched Kara safers the Colorado but he's
a beast, just gets back. They're very violent and aggressive
off the line. He had thirty and a half career sacks,
five forrest fumbles, forty five and a half tackles for
loss and that's kind of what I want there. And
(13:24):
I think if you're taking an edge rusher as the Patriots,
you know we have Judon Anthony Jennings uch is you're
really going to develop and the hope they hit their
stride next so you don't really need a day one starter.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So that's my thought there.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, I think the Pageers retaining Uch shows that they
feel they have a little bit more in him, especially
at the edge role. Obviously fell off a little bit
this season, but I think they're expecting him to get
back to where he was in twenty twenty two. I
think that's a huge step that he'll need to take
heading into this season to really see if he's worth
what the Patriots are looking for.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
The j I was gonna say, I know, you want
to talk about the big guys inside Mike Special. But
one thing to keep in mind for this discussion is
Judon specifically because last year of his deal. I do think,
you know, I'm not telling you he's getting traded tomorrow,
but it wouldn't you know, it wouldn't be overly surprising
to me. And then all of a sudden you pick
(14:17):
up maybe a second or third round pick and you
replace him with a young pass rush like that wouldn't
be out of the rama.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Possibility, Like I'd throw Chris Braswell from another guy at
Senior Bowl, similar kind of thing, you know, but more
of a pass rusher. But Bama, you know, yeah, I
love those Bama guys, and I mean that's you know,
but I think, just to go back to your question, Paul,
I mean I really think they they really need to
find a three down guy. I mean, I don't think,
you know, you want to go into the season thinking like,
oh god, you know Jenning's out there first second and
get him off Oocha's in. Like it's just you'd love
(14:44):
to find a three down guy that can kind of
do it all. And you know, maybe you draft somebody
this year like that, you know, not like a Caesar
that you can kind of develop and allow him to
grow into that. But before we get to down into
the you know, the big guys inside, I just wanted to,
you know, highlight Peyton Wilson from NC State, who he
ran a four foot three at the combine, which is like,
you know, he's like six two to forty, I mean,
(15:04):
absolutely flying. Just a lot of injury concerns with him.
I think the Patriots are probably mostly set inside right now,
but he's one guy if you wanted to kind of
evolve a little bit, add a little bit more speed
on the second level. Again, probably gonna go too high
from when they're gonna take him if they believe he
can stay healthy, but could fit.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I got another guy which might be the pat sweet
spot kind of maybe fourth round Cedric Gray from UNC.
Bit of an outside linebacker, also play him on the edge,
but that he kind of is like a Jennings to me, like,
you know, develop him works out great. If not, like
you know, you give him some time. So that's a
that's a guy I'd look out for. Also UNC, you
know Mat Drake may I know each other?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That doesn't work, Chris, you got any you got any
off the ball linebacker types? Or should be moving onto
the defensive late I d ls as we like to
call them.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I have a couple of the d ls in there.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, I will tee us up with the biggest of
them all too.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So all right, Braden Fisk out of Florida's I mean
just an absolute dog. We were watching him at the combine,
just our mouths fellow the floor when we saw his speed.
Uh in that forty yard dash of his. But he's
a guy. I mean forty three tackle is the true
run stuffer. But also you can get to the quarterback.
He's quick. I mean if he gets his hands inside you,
I mean it's game over.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You lost that battle.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Aggressive, I mean just he's I forget what with what
the word I wrote, but he just I mean he's
a dog. You just tell like he's he's gonna come in,
he's gonna play hard. But I thought you were gonna
go with Tovandre Sweat. It's just big. That's a big dude.
He can move it in the sor bawl. I mean
just a big guy. Maybe a lot of players in
the point when.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
You're at a five to five point two or something,
which guy that size is absurd.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It's like mass equals four times acceleration. They're like, oh
my god. But he's you know again like Godshaw, you know,
bar Moore is more of a kind of penetrator type,
like you know, te Trick Whise. You know, is is
he the right fit or you you know, are you
maybe you know, considering key On White to be in
that role. So it's just I could see, you know,
and Sweat's gonna go to but he kind of needs
(17:01):
some of those space eaters. That's those kind of two
gap guys. I do have some other ones though later on.
But Paul, you you mentioned Sweat great in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, no, He's made a lot of plays. He was
a big part of that disruptive front. They weren't great
defensively as a team, and obviously Washington had their way
with him in that game. But I do think he
showed up in most of the games. I watched Chris Jenkins,
another kid from Michigan. We talked about in some of
earlier shows about the kids of pros, and we didn't
(17:29):
talk on the off ball linebackers of Jeremiah Trotter. Same
kind of thing, you know, good blood lines. I'm always
intrigued by those guys, especially when they play similar you know, positions,
so obviously, you know, we talk about it at the
high profile with Marvin Harrison. Chris Jenkins's dad was a
tremendous All Pro caliber interior defensive lineman. So I don't
know where he's gonna fall. He's probably Day two rather
(17:51):
than day three, so he's probably out of the Patriots range.
But another guy to keep an eye on.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
I had a Row Row Row got that right, I
actually did. I can already hear the fans going rude.
He's really he's a big boy. It really takes up
space for the linebackers, free them up. I just think, like,
once again, this isn't a glaring need for the Patriots,
but this could be a fun developmental prospect. And he's
he might go a little too high. I also had
(18:17):
Leonard Taylor, third LT. Three from Miami, another big guy,
works hard and if he's a later round guy, you know,
just take him, why.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Not, and not to cut you off, but just going in.
I mean Mason Smith, another big interior guy, and we
talked about a little bit earlier, but six five, three
hundred and six pounds, like another big fellow. But he's quick. Yeah,
five oh one forty yard dash. I mean that's impressive
and something you can be agile when you need him
to be. Uh so again another run stuffer there for.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Another kind of tototypical three four D end and that's
you know, kind of what I was looking at with
some of these guys is day three two gappers And
it's not sexy, it's you know, it's it's these you know,
big guys that aren't gonna do a lot. They're probably
going to be just the first two downs. But I
think when you look at the Patriots defense and some structure,
this is you know what they want. They want a
couple guys inside that can take up multiple blockers. You
(19:05):
mentioned Smith, I'd also say Jordan Jefferson from US you
who probably more of a penetrator and you know, more
of that bar More type. But that's kind of where
I get confused. And yet, you know, you had a
good question Paul about just what are you looking for
on the edge, and it's you know, it's still how
are they going to evolve? I think you always need
both those two gapper tites, but you need guys like
Jefferson too, who have some speed like Barmore and can
penetrate and can affect the quarterback just specifically.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I'd be curious to see how the Patriots feel about it.
Is that going to change, you know, what they're actually
looking for with with Bill Gohn and you know, just
maybe Girod try to put some of an imprint of
his own on this or is it just kind of
stick to the system the way the way it is run.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Kind of covering all their bases, you know, like we
got penetrators, we got two gappers, we got run stopping
as you know, it's hard to have that like amount
of players and then have to like.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah, Bill always seemed to be reluctant to sacrifice size
and physicality on the edge for pure rushing. So be
like I said, be curious to see if Gerad feels
the same, or if he decides to go after some
of these two hundred and forty pound edge guys. Yeah,
that probably aren't going to hold up against the run bike,
you know, Anthony Jennings is you know, but maybe you
(20:13):
get a little more explosiveness out there.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I think the Patriots also have like the age difference
between your interior guys. I mean you have the Christian Barmers,
who's still kind of young, but then you have Davon
Gotchaudis wise like they're getting up there in age, and
you want to see which guys can really fit in
that type of role, especially if there's going to be
some flow there.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I think it's it's not twenty twenty five, but after
next year, it's like nobody in the front seven center
contract and actually it might be an exit next year,
so it's like these guys are all coming up, so
it's you do have to have a mind for the future.
One last name I'll just mentioned Jaden and Cromedy from
Mississippi State, another four year starter, big powerful, two gapping,
interior day three type guy. I could see that kind
(20:52):
of pick making sense, especially if guys, you know, Jeremiah
farm Sam Roberts maybe not quite developing. I know we've
heard from Elliot Wolf that they want to play these
guys a little bit more, so, you know, maybe that
that allows them to have some depth with some of
these guys you haven't played.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
He's got to get some he's got to get a
prominent role, right, Yeah, your second round pick, year two,
it's time.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Get him in there. You got anybody.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Else's I Paul touched them a little. Just Jeremi Trotter.
I know he's a linebacker.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I just watched that.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
They don't make linebackers like that anymore. He's wearing number
fifty four, just the center green dot guy, and he's
gonna go too high for the Pats. But I mean
just he's quite a player, so it'd be interesting to
see if they did something there.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But all right, well, a lot of options there for
the Patriots to consider. We talked about their needs and
the depth and all that. So that's going to wrap
up the defensive side of the ball. Just a few
episodes left, and of course we'll finish off with a
full live hour episode wrap up everything we learned here.
I know everybody's getting itchy for the draft, so be
sure to stick with us here on Patriots Draft Countdown
releast every Wednesday,
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to an NFL draft posted by the writers of
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Welcome to another episode of Patriots Draft Countdown, brought to
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And we're back, guys, just a little over three weeks
to go to the draft. We've rifled through a lot
of prospect videos and we're here just to kick off
this show talking about some of the latest draft news.
I think we're kind of settling into silly season. Paul
feels like this is when people start to, you know,
you hear things like what that doesn't make sense? They
love that guy, most notably with Tony Pauline's report yesterday
(00:49):
that Elliott wolf enamored with JJ McCarthy, the hot new
name here on the mock draft circuit. So what do
you take away from that anything?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
I don't take much in terms of what it means
directly to the Patriots. I think that Elliott Wolf and
the you know, the cast of thousands that he's evidently
been traveling with while you know, going on to watch
all these guys. I think McCarthy's an interesting prospect only
because of what I've been saying all along. I just
think he has the most unknown because I just haven't
seen him be able to do all the things that
(01:20):
all the other guys had to do for their teams
in college. So I think there's a skill set there,
you know. I think he's got you know, good enough size.
I think he runs tough. I think he's pretty athletic.
I think he's shown that he can move around and
make plays outside the pocket. But like I said, I
just haven't seen him be able to, you know, put
a team on his back and have to throw the
ball thirty five forty forty five times to ensure victory.
(01:43):
I've seen all the other guys have to do that
from time to time.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Van, I'm gonna tee up. And the last episode we
showed a film breakdown, you did a McCarthy. You know,
we talked so much about guys like Mac Jones and
Joe Burrow and these guys that come from LSU and
Alabama that have superstar casts around them, and maybe not
quite the case with JJ McCarthy. Do you think he's
get I think downgraded before you know, think if he
was playing on one of those teams, Yeah, I'd be
talking a little bit higher about it.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Well, that's what a lot of people that like JJ
McCarthy will tell you. I'll just say this along the
same lines as Paul. Last week it was that the
Commanders are enamored with JJ McCarthy. This week it's now
the Patriots that are enamored with JJ McCarthy. So I
think that people are just trying to figure out where
to put JJ McCarthy. Like, obviously he's a guy that's
going to go a little bit higher than maybe we
(02:25):
thought a couple months ago. He's going to probably go
in the top half of the first round, But is
it going to be as early as two or three
or are we more talking about in that mac Jones?
Can he Pickett range in the teens? I would just
say that proceed with caution this time of year. This
time last year, Will Levis was a top ten pick.
In twenty twenty one, Mac Jones was a San Francisco
(02:46):
forty nine er at number three overall. Then we get
to the draft and they end up finding their level
and they end up going in a more comfortable range
for their skill set. I think that there's a lot
to like about JJ McCarthy in terms of the talent
and just the ball of clay that he is. You know,
he does have the ability, like Paul said, to move
get outside the pocket. He's elusive in the pocket, put
(03:08):
down a fantastic three cone times. So he's got that
agility and that jitterbugness about him in the pocket. And
he's got a plus arm. I wouldn't say it's an
elite arm, but it's a better than average NFL arm
as well, So you have some things to work with.
But there's a lot of things I think in his
game that needs seasoning, a post snap decision making probably
being the biggest one, but also accuracy in terms of
(03:30):
ball placement down the field too. So I'm not a
JJ McCarthy guy. Everybody knows that, but I'm trying to
open my mind and not be as critical about it
because clearly there are people in the league that have
a lot of love for him.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
McCarthy not at all.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
I think it's smoke screen season, and I think it's
a very risky pick to take him. I don't think
he's better than the other three guys. I think it's
risky to take him at three, and I think it's
gonna be pretty funy when it just goes Caleb, Jaden,
Drake and it is boring, but sometimes it's what has
to happen.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So that's how I wanted to go. And you know,
I put out my latest mock draft, So yeah, Drake
May my guy. You know, I'd love them to go
with him. And we've got coming up next here on
Draft Countdown, we have a full film segment where Evan
breaks down Drake May as well, just like he did
with McCarthy. So, guys, let's just kind of hash out
these two a little bit right now, because it's like
the more things change, the more they say the same Paul,
(04:19):
you said a couple of shows ago, you know, on Unfiltered,
we've been talking about the same stuff. Ultimately, does it
just kind of still boil down to date Daniels or May?
I think it does.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
And I think that particular thing I think boils down
to your particular taste and I think that there's a
lot to like about both guys. And that's why I
said some nice things about McCarthy too, because Evan's right,
just because we don't necessarily look at McCarthy in that
light doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be talked about.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You know, like that.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
So I like the idea of May because I just
feel like there's so much upside there. Now you can
make an argument that, you know, the opposite is not
what you're looking for. If it doesn't wor work out,
you don't really have much to fall back on. I
just feel like he had to do a lot of
things for that team last year, and I want that.
(05:09):
I want a guy who sort of had to be
the guy and how to have it all on his shoulders.
And you know, I don't think it was great. But
when you're talking about, you know, well he failed, well
what was North Carolina last year, like like eight and
four or something like. It's not like they went, you know,
two and twelve. You know, when when it was all
on his shoulders, he still won some games, didn't win
(05:31):
as many as a lot of people thought he might,
So you know that's how it worked.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I like May.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
I think a lot of them, but certainly I understand
the upside with with Daniels too. I know evan't got
a chance to see him both up close and personal.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
But yeah, we'll talk about the Pro days. You were
down there, Yeah, Tour of the South, So yeah, right,
it was a fun time.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
I think the biggest thing with Jaden Daniels is that
you are really banking on his athleticism and his running
ability being his superpower. Because what I saw from him
throwing the football was okay. I wasn't blown away, though.
I didn't look at him and say, Wow, this arm
talent is just fantastic. He's got a really big arm
and he can kind of just flick the wrists and
(06:11):
generate velocity and this that the other thing. I kind
of felt like it was an NFL arm We go
out to training camp and stuff like that, and we
see guys throw all the time, and I didn't look
at his arm talent and sit there and say, this
is so much better than Mac Jones or this is
so much better than Bailey ZAPPI maybe a little bit
more control on the ball than those guys at times,
(06:33):
but not blown away. Whereas with Drake May he just
has a handcannon. I mean that guy off platform, off
one leg, rolling to his left, rolling to his right,
It doesn't make a difference. He can just flick at
sixty five yards in the air. And I was standing
right there when he dropped it in to tes Walker
on the sideline sixty five yards on a dime too,
(06:53):
and I was just like, man, this is just that's different.
That's a different trait. And if you were looking, if
you still are of the of the mind that you
need to win with your arm in this league, and
eventually all of the running and off platform stuff is
all great, well and good, But the person that's gonna
sit in the pocket and be able to pick a
part of defense is the guy that's gonna hold the
(07:14):
trophy at the end of the day. I just look
at Drake May and think that that is an easier
path for him to get to that point. With Daniels,
I think you're really counting on the whole package, the
running ability, the arm and it all coming together at
this level for that ability to go on a season
like he had last year at LSU.
Speaker 5 (07:33):
First, I want to hear more about Tess Walker, but
I think Jaden Daniels, I don't think we're ready for him.
I think I know Evan's mentioned this before, he had
Malik Neighbors, he had Brian Thomas, Like, I think he
needs a bit more structure, and I think, honestly, the
Commanders have a more set offense right now for him
than the Pats would. And Drake May, just as I said,
you can sin for a while. He has the traits,
(07:53):
he has an absolute cannon. So I think May's the
guy and I really hope he ends up here.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah, when it comes to elevator the players around them,
I think that Jayden Daniels could distribute the ball to
good receivers no problem. But when it comes to actually
taking that an offense that maybe doesn't have great receivers
yet and elevating it to be on what it is,
I just think Drake May brings more to the table
in that respect.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
All Right, we're here now talking the defensive front seven guys.
We're gonna include three different position groups here, because let's
face it, the Patriots need offense, and I would make
an argument that they need some front seven help in
the not too distant future, but for this year, just
running down real quick, I mean Lawrence guy departed. However,
they did sign arm On Watts kind of could fill
that position. You got ke On White from last year
(08:36):
stepping up there, but otherwise it's kind of the same
front we know the year Christian Barmore had daniel Lequallee
a rotational piece coming back at linebacker. You got Bentley
and Tavani Tavai Sioni Taki Taki comes in, Rayquo McMillan
coming back from an injury. I'm just listening all these
guys off to show some of the depth. The one
position I do think is a concern though, is along
the edge, and so it's not impossible to see them
(08:58):
going in that position early on. But I'd like to
just start with like the four top guys I think
of that group, which is Jared Verse, Chop Robinson, Dallas
Turner and lie To Latsu. Four guys who all really
fit kind of the Patriots prototype. Along the edge. We
could potentially make, you know, a good three down rotational
piece alongside Matthew Judon, josh Ucha, Anthony Jenning. Still feels
(09:21):
like they were a little light there, but tis they're
probably not gonna be able to take one of those guys.
Speaker 5 (09:25):
Yeah, I'm kind of looking at this like we talked
about the DBS. I hope we don't take somebody at
the defensive front seven before the fourth. But Jared Verse,
I mean we saw him Indianapolis that kill Roy shout
out to their bread sticks. But that guy is a
unit and it's I said it earlier. It's just it's
a shame that we had such a tough year because
he would love to see these guys on the Patriots,
but we just this isn't what we need right now.
(09:46):
So but Jared Verse to the top of the crop
right there.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
For me, He's actually one that I'm really high on
and I love his story, you know, coming from a
lower level, you know, out of nowhere from Albany and
you know, being just a star at a level like
Florida State. So I agree with tis really like the player.
Don't really see much of a chance of the Patriots
being in position now. Maybe if you're talking about trading
(10:10):
down in some of the dominoes that you kind of
traded down with an eye on don't fall into place.
I think that's a guy that he screened Patriot when
you watch him, But again, I think very very little
to no chance.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, I felt like Dallas Turner two, Alabama guy. I
mean another one that would easily fit lot to the
guys who have good stories. I mean, seemed like his
career was going to end the neck injury, comes back,
very athletic, very long.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Lot two is one of my favorite guys because I
don't watch a ton of games, but I'm watching. I'm
watching the CLA game and this guy a lot too is.
I think it might have been against USC and he
made a couple of plays like back to back. I'm like, oh,
I'm going to keep that guy in mind. Yeah, Like
two minutes later the guy goes, no, he's gonna be
a top fifteen pick. That's why I'm like nothing that's
by Paul.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
He's your prototypical edge rusher. I mean thirteen sacks in
the season, just absolutely dominated this year to UCLA and
I mean not a free to catch the football. Two
interceptions on the season as well. But he's a guy
that is going to set the edge when you need
him to. Same with Jared Verus, like easily, in my opinion,
the two top guys in that draft. Yeah, that you
(11:13):
could slide from.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
That's what they need like, you know, I think they.
I mean it's just it's an underrated need and that's
why I like if the were to happen early, I
wouldn't totally hate it. The other guy I'll just mention
is Darius Robinson from Zoo. Watched him during Senior Bowl practices.
I mean, he is I just wrote he's a handful.
I mean wherever he lines up, he can play a
number of different spots. I don't know if he's going
to make it out of the first round, but he's
another one who maybe not quite in that upper tier,
(11:37):
but if he were to slip, I could maybe consider
it there in the second round. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
No, he's great, honestly, always in the backfield, just always,
just his presence is felt. And fourteen tackle for loss
in the season led the team, so it's it's a
great number.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So just before we move on from the edge guys,
I'm curious what you think in terms of the style
of edge player if the Patriots again, I think we
all agree we're talking day three yep. Yeah, because I
think that you know the needs are there, but would
you want to you know, a bigger edge guy, maybe
you know Anthony Jennings, physical edge setter or would you
(12:13):
want maybe a smaller two fifty you know, pass rusher.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
A great question, Paul, I mean I love that you
kind of you kind of set me up because I have,
you know, two later around options. I think the cover
kind of both those options.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
You know, Nelson Caesar is one who's kind of been
on my radar for a little bit. He's kind of
more that prototypical, has the power, you know as a captain,
but you know, more like kind of the edge setter type,
maybe need some work on the pass rush. It's a
little bit more Jennings than Uce. But then Jalen Harrell
from Michigan, I mean everybody watched Michigan's defense this year.
He's another one who you know, kind of reminds me
(12:47):
of Uce a little bit. Maybe not quite so specific
to being a pass rusher, a designated pass rusher like
Uch is with his you know o J speed around
the edge. But I just was really impressed with kind
of Harold's athleticism. He's kind of shifty, you know, he
can kind of beat guys and make guys miss.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
If you're taking to edge rusher, I want to get
after the quarterback. That's why I like Mohammed Kamara Colorado State.
I don't know if you guys watched the one in
Colorado game. Everybody watched Kara safers the Colorado but he's
a beast, just gets back. They're very violent and aggressive
off the line. He had thirty and a half career sacks,
five forrest fumbles, forty five and a half tackles for
loss and that's kind of what I want there. And
(13:24):
I think if you're taking an edge rusher as the Patriots,
you know we have Judon Anthony Jennings uch is you're
really going to develop and the hope they hit their
stride next so you don't really need a day one starter.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So that's my thought there.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, I think the Pageers retaining Uch shows that they
feel they have a little bit more in him, especially
at the edge role. Obviously fell off a little bit
this season, but I think they're expecting him to get
back to where he was in twenty twenty two. I
think that's a huge step that he'll need to take
heading into this season to really see if he's worth
what the Patriots are looking for.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
The j I was gonna say, I know, you want
to talk about the big guys inside Mike Special. But
one thing to keep in mind for this discussion is
Judon specifically because last year of his deal. I do think,
you know, I'm not telling you he's getting traded tomorrow,
but it wouldn't you know, it wouldn't be overly surprising
to me. And then all of a sudden you pick
(14:17):
up maybe a second or third round pick and you
replace him with a young pass rush like that wouldn't
be out of the rama.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Possibility, Like I'd throw Chris Braswell from another guy at
Senior Bowl, similar kind of thing, you know, but more
of a pass rusher. But Bama, you know, yeah, I
love those Bama guys, and I mean that's you know,
but I think, just to go back to your question, Paul,
I mean I really think they they really need to
find a three down guy. I mean, I don't think,
you know, you want to go into the season thinking like,
oh god, you know Jenning's out there first second and
get him off Oocha's in. Like it's just you'd love
(14:44):
to find a three down guy that can kind of
do it all. And you know, maybe you draft somebody
this year like that, you know, not like a Caesar
that you can kind of develop and allow him to
grow into that. But before we get to down into
the you know, the big guys inside, I just wanted to,
you know, highlight Peyton Wilson from NC State, who he
ran a four foot three at the combine, which is like,
you know, he's like six two to forty, I mean,
(15:04):
absolutely flying. Just a lot of injury concerns with him.
I think the Patriots are probably mostly set inside right now,
but he's one guy if you wanted to kind of
evolve a little bit, add a little bit more speed
on the second level. Again, probably gonna go too high
from when they're gonna take him if they believe he
can stay healthy, but could fit.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
I got another guy which might be the pat sweet
spot kind of maybe fourth round Cedric Gray from UNC.
Bit of an outside linebacker, also play him on the edge,
but that he kind of is like a Jennings to me, like,
you know, develop him works out great. If not, like
you know, you give him some time. So that's a
that's a guy I'd look out for. Also UNC, you
know Mat Drake may I know each other?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That doesn't work, Chris, you got any you got any
off the ball linebacker types? Or should be moving onto
the defensive late I d ls as we like to
call them.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I have a couple of the d ls in there.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, I will tee us up with the biggest of
them all too.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
So all right, Braden Fisk out of Florida's I mean
just an absolute dog. We were watching him at the combine,
just our mouths fellow the floor when we saw his speed.
Uh in that forty yard dash of his. But he's
a guy. I mean forty three tackle is the true
run stuffer. But also you can get to the quarterback.
He's quick. I mean if he gets his hands inside you,
I mean it's game over.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You lost that battle.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So I mean.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Aggressive, I mean just he's I forget what with what
the word I wrote, but he just I mean he's
a dog. You just tell like he's he's gonna come in,
he's gonna play hard. But I thought you were gonna
go with Tovandre Sweat. It's just big. That's a big dude.
He can move it in the sor bawl. I mean
just a big guy. Maybe a lot of players in
the point when.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
You're at a five to five point two or something,
which guy that size is absurd.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It's like mass equals four times acceleration. They're like, oh
my god. But he's you know again like Godshaw, you know,
bar Moore is more of a kind of penetrator type,
like you know, te Trick Whise. You know, is is
he the right fit or you you know, are you
maybe you know, considering key On White to be in
that role. So it's just I could see, you know,
and Sweat's gonna go to but he kind of needs
(17:01):
some of those space eaters. That's those kind of two
gap guys. I do have some other ones though later on.
But Paul, you you mentioned Sweat great in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, no, He's made a lot of plays. He was
a big part of that disruptive front. They weren't great
defensively as a team, and obviously Washington had their way
with him in that game. But I do think he
showed up in most of the games. I watched Chris Jenkins,
another kid from Michigan. We talked about in some of
earlier shows about the kids of pros, and we didn't
(17:29):
talk on the off ball linebackers of Jeremiah Trotter. Same
kind of thing, you know, good blood lines. I'm always
intrigued by those guys, especially when they play similar you know, positions,
so obviously, you know, we talk about it at the
high profile with Marvin Harrison. Chris Jenkins's dad was a
tremendous All Pro caliber interior defensive lineman. So I don't
know where he's gonna fall. He's probably Day two rather
(17:51):
than day three, so he's probably out of the Patriots range.
But another guy to keep an eye on.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
I had a Row Row Row got that right, I
actually did. I can already hear the fans going rude.
He's really he's a big boy. It really takes up
space for the linebackers, free them up. I just think, like,
once again, this isn't a glaring need for the Patriots,
but this could be a fun developmental prospect. And he's
he might go a little too high. I also had
(18:17):
Leonard Taylor, third LT. Three from Miami, another big guy,
works hard and if he's a later round guy, you know,
just take him, why.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Not, and not to cut you off, but just going in.
I mean Mason Smith, another big interior guy, and we
talked about a little bit earlier, but six five, three
hundred and six pounds, like another big fellow. But he's quick. Yeah,
five oh one forty yard dash. I mean that's impressive
and something you can be agile when you need him
to be. Uh so again another run stuffer there for.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Another kind of tototypical three four D end and that's
you know, kind of what I was looking at with
some of these guys is day three two gappers And
it's not sexy, it's you know, it's it's these you know,
big guys that aren't gonna do a lot. They're probably
going to be just the first two downs. But I
think when you look at the Patriots defense and some structure,
this is you know what they want. They want a
couple guys inside that can take up multiple blockers. You
(19:05):
mentioned Smith, I'd also say Jordan Jefferson from US you
who probably more of a penetrator and you know, more
of that bar More type. But that's kind of where
I get confused. And yet, you know, you had a
good question Paul about just what are you looking for
on the edge, and it's you know, it's still how
are they going to evolve? I think you always need
both those two gapper tites, but you need guys like
Jefferson too, who have some speed like Barmore and can
penetrate and can affect the quarterback just specifically.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I'd be curious to see how the Patriots feel about it.
Is that going to change, you know, what they're actually
looking for with with Bill Gohn and you know, just
maybe Girod try to put some of an imprint of
his own on this or is it just kind of
stick to the system the way the way it is run.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Kind of covering all their bases, you know, like we
got penetrators, we got two gappers, we got run stopping
as you know, it's hard to have that like amount
of players and then have to like.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah, Bill always seemed to be reluctant to sacrifice size
and physicality on the edge for pure rushing. So be
like I said, be curious to see if Gerad feels
the same, or if he decides to go after some
of these two hundred and forty pound edge guys. Yeah,
that probably aren't going to hold up against the run bike,
you know, Anthony Jennings is you know, but maybe you
(20:13):
get a little more explosiveness out there.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I think the Patriots also have like the age difference
between your interior guys. I mean you have the Christian Barmers,
who's still kind of young, but then you have Davon
Gotchaudis wise like they're getting up there in age, and
you want to see which guys can really fit in
that type of role, especially if there's going to be
some flow there.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I think it's it's not twenty twenty five, but after
next year, it's like nobody in the front seven center
contract and actually it might be an exit next year,
so it's like these guys are all coming up, so
it's you do have to have a mind for the future.
One last name I'll just mentioned Jaden and Cromedy from
Mississippi State, another four year starter, big powerful, two gapping,
interior day three type guy. I could see that kind
(20:52):
of pick making sense, especially if guys, you know, Jeremiah
farm Sam Roberts maybe not quite developing. I know we've
heard from Elliot Wolf that they want to play these
guys a little bit more, so, you know, maybe that
that allows them to have some depth with some of
these guys you haven't played.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
He's got to get some he's got to get a
prominent role, right, Yeah, your second round pick, year two,
it's time.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Get him in there. You got anybody.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Else's I Paul touched them a little. Just Jeremi Trotter.
I know he's a linebacker.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I just watched that.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
They don't make linebackers like that anymore. He's wearing number
fifty four, just the center green dot guy, and he's
gonna go too high for the Pats. But I mean
just he's quite a player, so it'd be interesting to
see if they did something there.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
But all right, well, a lot of options there for
the Patriots to consider. We talked about their needs and
the depth and all that. So that's going to wrap
up the defensive side of the ball. Just a few
episodes left, and of course we'll finish off with a
full live hour episode wrap up everything we learned here.
I know everybody's getting itchy for the draft, so be
sure to stick with us here on Patriots Draft Countdown
releast every Wednesday,
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.