Patriots Draft Countdown: Previewing the Offensive Line, Will Campbell Film Review and Brandon Thorn Interview

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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The New England Patriots.

Speaker 5 (00:28):
And today we are in the trenches talking offensive line.
We got a film breakdown from Evan, another mock draft
from Matisa Chris that Evan's gonna tear apart for us,
as well as an interview with Brandon Thorne. So offensive line, guys,
it's a big need. But first, I just want to
kind of set the table a little bit here with
some of the latest news. Joe Milton formally traded last
week to the Cowboys. Paul, do you see this impacting

(00:48):
the Patriots draft plans at the quarterback position.

Speaker 6 (00:51):
I really don't. I think there's always a chance that
you could take a quarterback later in the draft Day
three at some time. I think it's something that a
lot of teams try to do good practice, but I
don't necessarily see it being any more of an issue
right now. My guess is somebody that's not on the
roster at that position will be on the roster at
some point during the offseason. I don't think it necessarily

(01:12):
has to be a draft pick.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
What do you think.

Speaker 5 (01:13):
You have a couple of names out there, maybe Day
three fire kind of guys.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:17):
The one guy that sticks out to me that just
sort of fits the backup quarterback mold as Riley Leonard
from Notre Dame has some athleticism, so he kind of
plays a little bit like Drake May, So you will
have that. It's clear that Joe Milton, you know, it
didn't work out in terms of his long term view
of his role on the team. So if you truly

(01:37):
want a guy that's okay with kind of being a
career backup, then that's tough. Like I think that's tough
to find somebody that's truly going to come into the
league as a rookie and say, well, all this backup
Drake May for ten years.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
You know, not everybody's wired like that.

Speaker 7 (01:52):
So I'm interested to see how to handle that, you know,
is it just a camp arm and Josh Dobbs is
truly the backup and there's really no competition there for
the second quarterback spot.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
That's kind of where I'm.

Speaker 7 (02:05):
Leaning, is that maybe it's a they have two seventh
round picks, right, a seventh round pick, a UDFA fly er,
something like that.

Speaker 5 (02:12):
What do you think, TC, And you write the final
chapter here for Joe Milton. I mean it wasn't here
very long, but hey, he made some entertaining backflips, a
couple of big throws, and had a nice game at
the end.

Speaker 8 (02:21):
Of the season. Yeah, we got some good content out
of it. I would have liked to keep maybe one
more year. I don't think it would have hurt to
keep him. But Paul said this before. It's never bad
business to draft a quarterback. So you take somebody six
round or later. Who knows, but I think Josh dobs
will be number two this year.

Speaker 5 (02:35):
All right, guys, So this is the offensive line episode,
and I just want to set it up with where
the Patriots are at, because I think there's a lot
of unknown factors right now with this offensive line. Paul,
you said on Patriots Unfiltered this week beside Morgan Moses.
You feel pretty good about your right tackle right now?
After that, it's a lot of guys that they've drafted
that haven't quite developed unknown quantities. I mean, you can

(02:55):
go right down the list with last year's two guys,
Caden Wallace, Laydon Robinson. Two years ago you had City,
so Michael when you feel pretty good about him hopefully
having a bounce back year there at right guard back
under Josh McDaniels. But Senator James bat Bradberry you bring
him in and maybe replace David Andrews. Still some uncertainty there.
How do you see this whole position group lineup? We

(03:16):
know about the need at tackle.

Speaker 6 (03:17):
Yeah, I mean obviously that's the number one priority, is
left tackle. I do like the idea of the competition
they've created on the interior. I mean, when he's probably
going to be the right guard, but you're right, Garrett
Bradbury is an option at center. Cole Strange is an
option at center at guard city, so you know, Leyden Robinson.
I like the idea of those guys competing and at

(03:38):
least being able to find one or two options that
can fill in. I have no idea of where they
turn at left tackle without adding someone in the draft,
and whether that's Will Campbell right at the top at
number four, we don't know, but they're going to have
to address it because I don't think going in with
what they had, like you know, Trey Jacobs or Vederian
Lowe is going to be good enough. I like the

(03:59):
Morgan signing. I'm on record is saying I think that's
the best signing they made, But there's still a huge
hole on the left side.

Speaker 7 (04:05):
Yeah, I don't see it either. I don't see how
you don't go into the come out of this draft,
I should say, with a big investment at left tackle,
a top fifty pick, let's call it at least. And
I wouldn't even mind if they took two right, you know,
if they double dipped in the third or fourth round,
kind of like they tried to do with receiver last year.
So there's some names there that, you know, I'm sure
we'll kick around the rest of the show that fit

(04:28):
all those types of things. I think at left guard,
I'm still looking at potentially another body in there too,
as just competition. You know, let the cream rise to
the top, and you know there's some mid round guards
A really strong guard class. You know, that's probably one
of the strains of the class is interior offensive line,
not so much center, but guard specifically, especially when you
talk about all the tackles that are probably gonna switch

(04:50):
to guard come the NFL. So you know, a wilet
Milen for example, Gray Zabel. You know, we don't know
about Campbell right, Like all these guys, there's potential that
they could play guard instead tackle in the league. So
it's a good class and I wouldn't mind, you know,
adding another left guard type to this mix to see
if maybe they can compete there with those other guys.

Speaker 5 (05:10):
Yeah, that's the biggest question to me because it's got
a new offensive line coach. And again I've been here,
I've been covered six seasons. There's been different offensive line
coach every single season. You're not back with Doug Moron,
who was established, and I think we were all excited
to get that experience back in the building. But I
guess he's my question as you hear what Evan says,
and I don't necessarily disagree, but is there something to
be said that we drafted Ladon Robinson last year?

Speaker 4 (05:32):
You know, Kayden Wallace was seen as a right tackle that.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
Could potentially be development developed into a starter thrust into
the fire last year. Do you allow some room for
some development and let Doug Maroon try to maybe salvage
some of these guys that we're a little bit low
on at this moment.

Speaker 8 (05:48):
I think you want to see a jump, But there's
also nothing wrong with investing in more talent. So we
don't know what's going to happen at four, but I
think it's a good year to maybe jump back into
the first and maybe get another high level prospect the
connorly Amylam Who knows, but I think you can, Uh,
there's nothing wrong with investing in new talent.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
Last thing, I just want touch on guys. This is
the center spot. Yeah, David Andrews here for so long.
I mean, it's really been a position of stability for
a long time in this organization, and I almost feel
like you're stuck in the middle of the road right now.

Speaker 4 (06:16):
Like I mean, Garret Bradberry, they brought him in. Clearly
he's been a starter in this league.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
You know, maybe it was a little bit going down
in Minnesota, but Ben Brown started some games for you
last year. But he's not I mean, he's not exactly
a spring chick, and he's twenty seven years old. He's
been around a little bit. Cole Strange is trying a
new position. It seems like, like you said, Paul, you
have some guys there, but do you really have a
guy there?

Speaker 6 (06:38):
Yeah, and I didn't even mention Jake Andrews, who I
think could be in that mix as well.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
No, they don't.

Speaker 6 (06:43):
They don't have guys right now that I think you'd
say he's going to start at center. He's going to
start at left guard. I think when you will be
the right guard. But I do like the idea of
strengthen numbers there and there. It's not like they're all
complete unknowns. You know, Cole Strange, former first round pick,
has played reasonably effectively when healthy, hasn't been healthy enough,

(07:04):
so that's the question with him. You know, Leyden Robinson
I think has shown some power in the run game,
little bit questions in terms of his past protection and
you know his experience levels. So I think they have
the numbers the bodies to be okay in the middle,
But that doesn't mean I'm right there's gonna be These
guys are gonna have to go out in the off season.
In the OTAs and then in training camp and earn

(07:27):
jobs earned, you know, and this is gonna be true
across the board. This is what Mike Rabel's trying to create.
His competition everywhere, but none more so than those guys
in the interior offensive line.

Speaker 5 (07:36):
Just give me one name of all these offensive line
and not most is not on WHNU, but one name
of that rest of that group that you're most interested
to see that you think could be. You know, a
good preseason in summer from him would really solve some
problems for the Patriots city.

Speaker 7 (07:50):
So I'm really interested to see him back in this McDaniels,
Bill O'Brien type of offense. I thought as a rookie
he showed some promise similarly to Leyden Robinson, and left
guard has been a natural spot for him going back
to college. I think there's a chance that, you know,
we see a better player in this system, not a
zone scheme where they're asking them to move a lot

(08:11):
and they can block in a foam booth and get
downhill and use his size.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
He's a big guy. I'm just interested to see.

Speaker 7 (08:17):
If maybe he ends up all of a sudden rope
adoping lad and Robinson and all, you know, we look
at it and say, well, this was what we thought
maybe he was developing into as a rookie under Bill O'Brien,
and now they get him into a similar system and
it looks the same as it did his rookie season.
I feel pretty good about Garrett Bradbury for the year
at center. I think they have a bridge there at center.

(08:39):
But you know, Drew Kendall from BC, like, that guy
is like, that's a boss, that's a Patriot, right, Like,
that's gonna be tough to pass on, I think at center.
But I do feel pretty good about Garrett Bradbury for
the season. Maybe not as a long term center. I
don't know how much he has left, but for twenty
twenty five, they should be set there, all right.

Speaker 5 (08:57):
Well, plenty to digest here along the offensive and lots
of needs, lots of questions. Check out Evans film review
here of some of the best prospects in this year's
NFL Draft.

Speaker 7 (09:06):
What's up, everybody, It's Evan Lazarre. Welcome into the Patriots
Draft Countdown film room. We are going to discuss a
huge position of need for the Patriots and this year's draft.

Speaker 9 (09:15):
Today.

Speaker 7 (09:16):
Offensive line in particular, we're going to talk about the
left tackles or the tackles in general, I should say,
And obviously, like I just said, we know that this
is a major position of need for the Patriots number
four overall potential. Here I would say with Will Campbell,
who will get to in a second, but I would
also say here.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
As well.

Speaker 7 (09:34):
With armand Membu, who will talk about after we get
to Campbell. Well, let's get to the tape with Will
Campbell and why he's such a promising prospect on the
left side. Here he is at left tackle, and I
just want to show you a couple of different pass
rush reps here against Kyle Canard, who's a top one
hundred player. Right there, protects his edge, no problem, right,
just running right past the quarterback. Now, what Canard is

(09:56):
going to do is he's going to try to inside
counter right, So he's going to face like he's going
to go to the outside, but we're going to cut
back inside and watch Campbell's ability just to mirror him
and just push him right out and keep the quarterback protected.
And the last one here is really big. So let's
go slow here because a big emphasis with Will Campbell's
his arm length right. We know these arms are undersized
for the position, but I want you to see how

(10:18):
stout of an anchor that he has. He has excellent
core strength and he's got that ability to use and
maximize all the length that he possibly can have against
speed the power. So if you posit right there, you
can see how he's just able to sit down right
here and just keep guys out of his chest with
that excellent extension of the arms there and keep his
quarterback protected. And we have another arm extension, core strength,

(10:40):
play strength element here with just this kickout block out
on the edge. He's going to kick it out, He's
going to open that area for the running back and
we're off to the races. So Will Campbell doesn't have
those ideal measurables, but you can see the tape, folks.
I mean it's outstanding from top to bottom for Campbell.
In terms of the film. A couple other names that
were worth mentioning. These guys are really worth mentioning. I

(11:02):
should say now armand Membu fantastic athlete, good film, top
ten prospect in a lot of ways in this class.
But he's a right tackle, right, so we're gonna put
right tackle next to him here. Patriots just signed Morgan Moses.
I'm not sure if they're gonna be looking for a
long term right tackle at that point in the draft
at the top. The other two names, though, I think
are important, are more in that Day two conversation. I

(11:23):
think Bank is gonna be in the middle there. It's
gonna be tough for the Patriots to target him. But
Josh Simmons coming off that knee injury, let's see how
far that makes him fall in this year's draft. And
Josh Carnelie junior from Oregon had a great end of
the season, right Championship game, college football playoff. Extremely athletic tackle,
very high level pass protector, still young and can develop.

(11:45):
If he's there for the Patriots at thirty eight, think
you run the card up to the podium depending on
what you do at number four overall. So that's the
top of the tackle class. There's a lot of tackles
on Day two and early Day three that might be
of interest to the Patriots, But I'm still planting that flag.
Will Campbell he's going to be a great pro. Might
be inside, but he's going to be an all timer
in my mind. So that's your offensive line breakdown and

(12:06):
your offensive tackles for the Patriots in this year's draft.
Huge position of need. Thanks for watching.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
All right.

Speaker 7 (12:14):
We're joined now by a very special guest, the best
and brightest on the offensive line. It's Brandon Thorne of
Trench Warfare. Make sure you subscribe there and also on
Bleacher Report. Brandon has some of the best draft profiles
on the offensive lineman in this year's class. So we're
going to get into the draft here in just a second, Brandon,
But to set the table, I just wanted to ask

(12:36):
you a little bit about the free agency hall that
the Patriots have so far on the offensive line with
Morgan Moses and Garrett Bradbrey. So, first of all, thanks
for doing this, and Hi, that's all right, skipped right
over that far.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
I wanted to get into the football but good to
see you.

Speaker 7 (12:50):
But just in general, what are your impressions of what
the Patriots have so far cooking on the offensive line.

Speaker 10 (12:57):
Yeah, I mean I feel like, you know, we'll start
with Morgan Moses. To me, I really like that one
because to me, you have a surefire short term starter
at right tackle who brings a lot to the table
in terms of just reliability, playing hurt, still playing at
at least usually a solid level or better. And then
if he's healthy for an extended period of time, I

(13:20):
think you have a really underrated right tackle. And the
reason why I like that too is because it really,
to me, it solidifies the entire right side of the
line with him and on Wana, keeps on Wano at
his most natural home and right guard, and just.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Solidifies that side.

Speaker 10 (13:38):
So I just look at that as a plus across
the board. It makes a lot of sense to me
why they would do that one. And then Brad Berry,
I don't think that moves the needle as much as
signing Moses does, but it does give you at least
somebody who's played the position extensively at center, which you
didn't have prior to signing him. Kind of allows you

(14:01):
to go from veteran a veteran from David Andrews to
him a little bit of a step back, but a
guy who you know, worst case, if you don't address
the position at all via the draft or any other
free agent moves somebody you could roll out there and
you know you could. You could probably win with him
and sometimes win in spite of him. Honestly, depending on

(14:23):
the matchup. But you know, you could do worse, I guess,
and it's I understand the move.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
You could rationalize that one as well.

Speaker 10 (14:30):
Uh So, Yeah, I mean, right now, I still think
the whole left side is up for you know, potentially
being improved. But at the same time, I see some
in house options if you do address left tackle to
where you could get a starter at left guard, you know,
from somebody that's on the roster now. So you know,
all in all, it's a it's a really it's a

(14:51):
fair spot to be in. I mean, it makes sense,
you know, where they are entering the draft, assuming that
they're going to address the offensive line in a maj
your way.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (15:01):
Right, Just one more question on their current state before
we get into the draft. You mentioned left guard and
some of the in house options. What were your impressions.
I'm curious of Leyden Robinson in his rookie season, and
I think that if there's anybody that has maybe the
highest ceiling out of the current group that they have
on the roster, I feel like it might be him.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (15:22):
I think just largely he was a pretty solid run blocker,
shakier and pass protection. He's a big, physical guy who
can uproot guys in the run game, you know, finish
at a pretty high level, deliver some of those body
blows that you'd like to see from offensive linemen, and

(15:43):
I think physically play strength and power wise, that translated
pretty well from the college to the pro level, which
was pretty expected, you know, coming from the SECS in
good competition like you did. So I feel like kind
of his best trade translated. It's just the concerns coming in.

(16:03):
We're still concerns in terms of matching up one on
one in past protection and just overall just past protection effectiveness,
dealing with stunts as well, and just you know, it's
just very up and down shaky, not super reliable in
that way.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
So he has to clean that up.

Speaker 10 (16:19):
Obviously, and you know, we'll see if he could do that.
But I think all in all, based on where you
drafted him, what kind of player he was, based on
my evaluation, like pretty much as expected, and like now,
you know, with with some moderate improvement, I think you
could probably roll with him as a starter again, assuming
you know, left tackle is addressed in a major way.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
And yeah, and I.

Speaker 10 (16:42):
Mean I'm not totally out on CD SOO either, so
that's a potential option. And then I know you signed
Wes Schweitzer as well, who's a guy I've always kind
of liked. So I I think the interior is if
this was the interior that you, you know, enter training
camp with, I think that's that's fine.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
So that's kind of how I see you.

Speaker 7 (17:04):
Yeah, let's let's talk about the big one, which is
obviously left tackle. And this is for most people, and
for my money, the biggest need on the current roster,
especially after they just signed Stefan Diggs here the last
couple of days, So left tackle huge need. I just
want to go through some of the tiers, if you will,
of these left tackles, and we'll start right at the

(17:25):
top of the draft with potentially for overall. And Will
Campbell I know in your write ups and we've discussed
this a little bit off the air, that you see
his best fit at guard, even though he probably could
play tackle. I don't want to put words in your mouth,
but I believe that's what you've said. Just so where
do you stand with Will Campbell? And then I have
you know, the arm length question there too, But let's

(17:45):
talk about in general with Will Campbell first and then
we'll get into the arms of it all.

Speaker 10 (17:49):
Yeah yeah, So, I mean I think Will Campbell pretty
much since we came out with our first big board
in November, he's been my top overall offensive lineman and
throughout the whole process of seeing.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Him at the Combine.

Speaker 10 (18:03):
You know, he didn't participate in the All Star circuit
understandably so, but combined wise and just getting to talk
to him for like my film room, and he's also
training with Duke Manyweather, as are a lot of these guys.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
So just like, he's just checked all the boxes to me.

Speaker 10 (18:18):
In terms of my initial projection as a high level
guard who could potentially play center or excuse me, potentially
play center, but also potentially play left tackle. So yeah,
I mean, I think he's the best overall offensive lineman
in the draft. I think he he's the guy that
I would like to bet on the most. Now you

(18:39):
know that said, I I have a a point four
grade on him, which for context is kind of middle
of the first round. I don't see him necessarily as
an impact starter, but I see him as a year
one starter, and that's the distinction there. I think this
is you know, it depends, you know, if if you
want to put him at tackle, I could see a

(19:00):
you know, a Bernard Raymond sort of left tackle, Brayden Smith,
even though he plays on the right. I could see
that caliber of tackle. Those are two of the more
like kind of sowt off sort of tackles that still
move really well and do a lot of really good things,
that are strong and physical. But I just think if
you if you had a left tackle in place, then

(19:22):
you could play him inside, and I think long term,
I think that is the highest ceiling for him. I
compared him to David di Castro, although you know di
Castro didn't play tackle at Stanford. But I just see
a very similar sort of player in terms of how
he wins and what he does well body type even
but to me, he more so than anything, falls into

(19:42):
that bucket of And this isn't a knock either to
me at least I know some take it that way.
But a very good college left tackle who is kind
of in that pipeline to me ideally to kick inside
as a pro. And I mean most oftentimes the best
guards that we have in the league are collegiate left
tackles who were really good. You know, for if it's

(20:04):
Zach Martin, Brandon Shurf, Elijah Peterry Tucker. The list of
the serious is very very long. There's there's a dozen
or so guys at least. So that's to me, how
I really see him. Now, you know, a team like
New England that doesn't have a left tackle you know,
on the roster, to me, yeah, you try him a

(20:26):
left tackle first and then you see where it goes
from there. So but you know, I mean he just
checks it. Like in terms of my film evaluation, like,
I think his balance is really good on contact through contact.
I think his play strength is really good. He has
power that's good. He's really athletic. He I mean, he
does a lot of things well. The reason why I

(20:46):
see him projected inside yeah, the length. I mean we
kind of knew that in the spring, right that he
was gonna you know, barely hit thirty three if that.
But I think just when you watch his tape and
you dig into it, I think he has some issues
pass protecting one on one on an island in terms

(21:08):
of striking down the middle of pass rushers and when
you don't have very good length at all, that can
get exacerbated in terms of creating a short corner for
pass rushers to access and turn the corner on him
quickly here and there. It's not like a major issue,
but I think that could be just increased at the

(21:28):
next level. And then he also kind of drifts oversets
a little bit, kind of you know, soft inside shoulder.
Those to me are kind of typically the signs. That's
that's to me why Brandon Schurff moved inside. That's to
me is why Zach Martin moved inside, and Joe Toney,
Joe Bntonio, Peter Skoronski. That's that's why these guys move inside.

(21:50):
So that that's just kind of how I see him.
But all in all, you know, my favorite offensive lineman
in the draft.

Speaker 7 (21:57):
Yeah, you mentioned you know why guys move inside and
why arm length is important. Just for our listeners, can
you just explain sort of the mythology because I think
a lot of people think arm length we're talking about
ace of an inch in some cases, right in terms
of these thresholds, like why do you feel like it's
felt that it's so important to NFL teams that these

(22:19):
guys hit certain thresholds.

Speaker 10 (22:22):
What also bucket in here put in the bucket wingspan,
which is a little bit different. To me, that's maybe
a little bit more of a relative concern for him
because as far as I know, based on his measurement,
he has the smallest wingspan of any offensive tackle to
come through the combine since nineteen ninety nine. So yeah,

(22:46):
that's per mock draftable. People can go to mock draftable
dot com. They have a database of players going back
to ninety nine, and he, I think would be.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
The smallest wingspan in history for a tackle.

Speaker 10 (23:00):
So you know, he's like in line with Alex Kappa
and Connor Williams, so in terms of body type, that's
kind of what you're looking at, and obviously those guys
didn't play tackle in the NFL, So yeah, wingspan's a
little different. I think that's more so like how much
space you're kind of like you're the width of your frame,

(23:23):
you know, and kind of like the mass the girth
that you have, how much space you take up. And
I think when you couple that with arm length, when
you're talking about a tackle, you're dealing with a lot
of space at tackle, more so than garden center obviously,
where you're flanked from both sides, you're kind of a
little bit more in the quote unquote phone booth, but
with tackle, because you're operating in so much space, when

(23:47):
you don't have as much of a reach or as
much of a kind of as a as a stature,
you know, then it's a little bit easier to get
around you, you know, just because of you don't have
as much as you're not operating in tight quarters. So
it just it's razor thin, you know, margin for error
when you're playing offensive line in the NFL, playing in

(24:09):
any position, but especially offensive line and especially offensive tackle.
So I think that's why it matters. But at the
same time, if your hands are really good and your
technique's really good, you can overcome that, as we've seen
with some of these guys with similar arm length and wingspans.

(24:30):
But to me, again, like I think it's not just
purely length and wingspan. I think it's also some of
the technical things that I said, you know that I
think have gotten cleaned up to a certain extent, but
we haven't seen it be cleaned up on game date yet.
So yeah, I think that's that's kind of what it

(24:50):
is and how I view it.

Speaker 7 (24:52):
Yeah, absolutely, And we could talk about this for another hour,
but I don't want to keep you that long, So
let's just move on to some of these other guys
and I we won't go as deep in them as
we did with Campbell, but armand Membu do just your
thoughts on him, and I think the big number one
question for the Patriots obviously is can he play left
tackle at the next level instead of right? And we've

(25:13):
been texting back and forth a little bit about the
history of guys flipping, and it's not very many guys, right,
it's a pretty small sample size of just a couple
that have actually pulled it off. But what do you
like about Membo? And could you see him going from
right to left, you know, right in college to left
in the NFL?

Speaker 10 (25:31):
Yeah, I mean we saw JC Latham and tali Esa
for Waga do this last year. But aside from then them,
I think you have to go back to like Jedrick
Wills is kind of another example, And yeah, I mean
I think Membo could do it. You know, I don't
see anything on his profile or his tape or anything
that would preclude him from switching sides, especially if you're

(25:54):
doing it with enough of a runway to get used
to it. Like, you know, if you're drafting him in
day one, you say, Okay, in the spring, you're gonna
start repping at left tackle, and you have the spring,
the summer camp, all that, you know, months and months
to do it. Then yeah, I don't see why he
wouldn't do it and be an equal level player that
he would be on the right. So that to me
is kind of a non factor. And yeah, I mean

(26:17):
I like Membo a lot. He's very close in grade
to Will Campbell. These two are two of maybe like
three guys that actually have a true first round grade
on so I see him as a year one starter
at tackle. This guy, to me is more of a
true tackle. He's my number one true tackle in the

(26:39):
in the draft, but behind Campbell overall. And for me,
I don't see any technical issues playing tackle in terms
of range, the ability to protect the corner, redirecting. He
doesn't overset guys a lot, like he looks to me
very comfortable past protecting tackle on film, and he has

(27:02):
all the physical thresholds I think that you would want.
So yeah, to me, he's more of a true tackle.
But yeah, to me, I mean, like there's some interesting
kind of just to give people an idea of the
sort of pro that I see him being.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Like, I think high end comp.

Speaker 10 (27:19):
Would be like a Dwayne Brown, you know, another six'
ford and change left tackle who played at a really high,
level who's about three, thirty who was extremely powerful. Athletic you,
know he played For houston for a long. Time he
had really good years In seattle two for a couple.
There so that's like a high end. Comp and THEN
i also see Some Mickey ikwanu as well in his,

(27:42):
game just in terms of his body, type, size of
some of the natural, power some of the abilities as
a finisher in the run. Game so that's kind of
another archetype THAT i would throw out. There but, YEAH
i MEAN i like him a, lot and to, me
he's clear cut like him And, campbell the two. Guys

(28:02):
it's it's kind of been this way for me since the.
Beginning they're you, Know, MEMBO i think separated himself a
little bit after the combine from somebody Like Josh, simmons
who is a Guy i'm very high on and just
with kind of some of his. Questions that's that's why
in member not having those same questions is.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
WHY i Have membo ahead of, him BUT i really.

Speaker 10 (28:23):
Like simmons tape as. WELL i think he's a really
good true tackle. Prospect but, Yeah i'm very high On.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Membo.

Speaker 7 (28:32):
Yeah so the next wave, here if you, will The
patriots pick in the second round at thirty. EIGHT i
think there's a chance that if It's Travis hunter Or
Abdul carter or something like that at, four that they
don't get their left tackle with the fourth overall. Pick
the tier THAT i look at at that, point you,
Know Josh, Connery Arianti, ersie Maybe simmons if he falls

(28:52):
because of the. Injury maybe it's a trade. Up it's
the end of the first round to secure one of those.
Guys but out of that, group who do you feel
like it is a good fit here In New?

Speaker 10 (29:01):
England, YEAH i MEAN i really Like Josh. Simmons just
the thing, IS i think you have to start with
kind of the caveats.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
FIRST i, mean.

Speaker 10 (29:12):
Five games in twenty twenty four before tearing his bettel,
attendant he looked like a very different player compared to
twenty twenty. Three he was much better improved in a
lot of, respects from his stance to his, technique everything
was kind of shifted and changed for the, better WHICH
i confirmed with him on the film.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
ROOM i. Did he did a lot of work and it,
showed and he was.

Speaker 10 (29:35):
DOMINANT i thought through the five games that he, played
and you, know part of that is he didn't see
great Competition Michigan state And. Oregon he had about twenty
or so snaps in The oregon tape was the one
he got hurt, in so you, see but there were
some really good stuff even in that small. Sample and
then The Michigan state game was probably the game where

(29:55):
he faced the best edge rusher he, saw and he
was really good in that.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
One to, me like.

Speaker 10 (30:00):
When you first turn on the, tape, though like he's
the GUY i got the most excited about probably watching
anybody this, year and it Was that's what made it
such a bummer when he got, hurt BECAUSE i was
expecting him to really like just rise throughout the process
AND i HAD i didn't watch him in twenty twenty
three either until after the, fact but, yeah like just

(30:21):
turning it on blind and watching, him you, know the
first game of the year and then watching all of his. Snaps,
yeah just a true prototypical sort of left tackle in
terms of how he looks on film and body, type
how he, moves the athletic, ability the the explosiveness and
twitch in his. GAME i saw some shades Of Christian darisaw.

(30:45):
There maybe just a little bit less physically imposing Than,
darrisaw but similar in a lot of. Ways and, yeah,
SO i you, know all in, all with the injuries
and all the, stuff all the questions with, him he's
like a ringe first round grade for. Me seven point
nine eight point zero is when first round grade start for,

(31:05):
Us SO i have him as a seven to. Nine
he's my third overall offensive lineman in the entire class though,
still BUT i couldn't quite get there on a surefire
first round. Grade BUT i think if you could get
him at the you, know the tail end of the
first or certainly in the, SECOND i, mean, YEAH i
Mean i'd be all over that.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
One.

Speaker 7 (31:22):
YEAH i feel like if that injury didn't, happen then
we might be talking about him at four overall for
The patriots as the top left tackle in the. Draft
so it was a bummer to see, That but you said.
It he was absolutely dominant in those five games that he,
played all, Right so let's go into the sleeper category
here maybe a little bit later on in the draft
On day. Three are there any tackle prospects that you

(31:44):
think could end up developing down the line and be
sort of steals of this?

Speaker 10 (31:48):
Draft, yeah there's there's probably a few names all throughout.
THERE i Like Charles grant a good amount From william And.
Mary he's a guard, candidate BUT i think he could
probably stick a. Tackle there's some shades Of Tront armstead,
there you, know coming out of college to, me small,
school maybe not quite as physically dominant As tron, was

(32:12):
but never really challenged physically either on, film AND i
watched a lot.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Of it of.

Speaker 10 (32:19):
Him the thing about him is THAT i really appreciate
is his ability in.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
The run game.

Speaker 10 (32:24):
To operate in his own heavy scheme that he did
With william And.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Mary just the backside cut offs for, him first of,
all were.

Speaker 10 (32:31):
Awesome that's something that you don't see a whole, lot
especially from small school offensive, linemen where the technique is
just so, sound, inconsistent and he has a lot of
like burst and quickness to execute at a very high,
level climbing to the second level leading out in. Space
SO i think in the run game, like he's a
pretty polished rum, blocker especially considering a small school. Background

(32:56):
and THEN i think in past, protection the way he
moves is a really good sort of foundation to work with.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
There Uh, so, YEAH.

Speaker 10 (33:03):
I MEAN i like, him you, know kind Of round
four range is probably WHERE i like him. IDEALLY i
Think Chase lunt is interesting From, connecticut who's a taller,
guy uh than Than Charles. Grant he's like six,' eight
but another heavy zone scheme guy Who is he's a

(33:24):
little bit more erratic in terms of his body control
and and sustaining Skills, than grant but he's.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Very, twitchy explosive, moves.

Speaker 10 (33:35):
Well and, you know he has a lot of really
good tape in terms of as a. Run blocker. THOSE
two I Think miles hinton is Interesting from michigan Left tackle.
Stanford transfer, this guy he's he's a bigger guy than
all these guys in terms. Of weight he moves really
well though he's maybe the Most talented michigan offensive lineman

(33:58):
to come out In several in, MY opinion i haven't
been super high On the. Michigan guys they've had really
good collective units over the last. Few years they Won
Two Jill, more awards but they just haven't had like.
A Dude and i'm not Saying that hinton is, a
dude but he. Has bloodlines his dad was A Perennial
all pro. Offensive lineman, he's big natural power and he

(34:21):
can get out and run and like lead in the.
Run game i'd love to throw a dart. On him
and on, DAY three I Think anthony belton. Is interesting
later on, day three like, this dude LIKE he's i
think he's like six six six five three thirty, three
forty carries it really well a lot of. Natural power

(34:43):
not very reliable in, past protection But he's he's the
sort of guy that you get into a building and,
you know you allow him, to develop see see. WHAT happens,
i mean he has a. PHYSICAL talent i think to,
you know, one day start some games. At tackle so
those guys, stand out and then there's there's more dark
Horses Like, logan brown, you know, maybe undrafted, you know

(35:06):
late day THREE that i think. Is Interesting john Williams
from cincinnati too is kind of interesting, to me although
he might. Play guard, so like there's there's some interesting
guys you know. Down there if you especially if you're
talking like rounds five. THROUGH seven, I mean i would
love to draft one of.

Speaker 7 (35:25):
Those, Guys Yeah charles grant is a good one because,
you know you don't when you see Guys from William
and mary or at, that level you want them to
pop off the tape and be different than the guys
that are. Around them AND when i, WATCHED him i,
was like, all right THAT'S the nfl player that's gonna.
Get drafted, you know on the offensive line there is. Pretty,
obvious brandon as you guys, can tell is an encyclopedia with.

(35:46):
This stuff so give him a Follow At, BRANDON Thorn Nfl,
Bleacher Report. Trench, warfare brandon thank you so much for.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Your.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Time, yeah absolutely it's. My pleasure thanks for. Having me, what's.

Speaker 8 (35:58):
Up everybody we're back again for a mock draft segment
On The Patriots draft. Countdown podcast Here With. Chris cassi
we're Joined By. Evan, lazar guys today we are doing
a joint seven. Round mock we're Let let evan get
a little reaction.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
To this this IS genuine i have. Not, Seen.

Speaker 8 (36:17):
Yes, so evan before, we start we did no trades
and that's the right way to. Do it when we
get to SO before i get into, pick one, pretty
much there's been some Rumors That carter hunter won't, be
available so we we acted like they weren't on, The
board and, with that let's get. Into it, Pick One

(36:37):
will campbell L s u at, NUMBER. Four uh, second
round Pick a buka FROM. Os u Pick Three, Jack,
Sawyer yeah Pick Four carson swettinger mispronounced. That uh Pick
Five gunner helm Tight. End texas PICK Six dj giddons,

(36:59):
running Back, can state and Pick seven Seth McLaughlin. Ohio
state Pick Eight, kobe, King Linebacker, penn state and Pick
Nine jimmy, Horn. Junior colorado that doesn't.

Speaker 7 (37:13):
Surprise me the last pick is the least surprising all.
Of those, but, yeah no That's a.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
That's a, good, job guys a.

Speaker 9 (37:19):
Good job.

Speaker 7 (37:20):
YOU know i Think that campbell we've talked at at
nauseum on all the shows Everywhere About.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Will CAMPBELL so.

Speaker 7 (37:27):
I think abuka is a really nice pick for them
because just a steady guy that you feel really good about,
his floor you feel really good about, his professionalism, his
hands his ro out, running ability his blocking ability in the.
Run game he's going to make an offensive coordinator very
Happy because he's going to be plug, and play easy,
to scheme easy to work around in. An offense, you

(37:50):
know you do worry a little bit, about speed, you
know long speed and ability to separate over. The top
but my com for him has Has Been jackson Smith.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
AND jigbook i just think.

Speaker 7 (37:59):
He's just gonna, say that just, a glider he's just a.
Smooth criminal it's.

Speaker 8 (38:03):
Also crazy because he's done, so much but he's been
overshadowed by so many. Great receivers but he holds the
record right Now For. Ohio state so he's. A, scrub
yeah he's been there for a.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Long time.

Speaker 7 (38:13):
You know you hear a little bit of, You Know
robert woods with, Him too like just one of those
guys is gonna do the. Dirty work that's going to
go into the. Dirty areas it's gonna go over the
middle of, the field.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Catch everything one of my one of my favorite Things
about abuka is that he's kind of like a. Route,
creator yeah you know he has he doesn't have that,
breakaway speed but he has that ability to get open
and find the open areas if there's a, breakdown route,
you know, and that like, you Said The jackson Smith
And jigba, calm like very very similar, body types very similar.

Speaker 9 (38:42):
Play styles obviously both One To. Ohio state but, you.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Know that's one big thing with a book is how
much he can really extend.

Speaker 7 (38:50):
To, play yeah he's he's got six years in, the,
Car RIGHT and i think that that's something that is
underrated about receiver play, in general is those guys that
can really change speeds mid round sort of set up.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Defensive back so it's a, good.

Speaker 8 (39:02):
Pick yep so then We Had jack sawyer and this
was a big debate when he came up on the
board because there were some other. Edge rushers. We had
Stuart from michigan, was there and that was kind of the.
Big debate, But yeah sawyer was the option we.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Went WITH so i like both those guys.

Speaker 7 (39:15):
A lot, You know i've gone back and Forth With
josiah stewart just because of. His size if they're gonna
be a true four down defense and not so much
use like a stand up three four, outside LINEBACKER then
i don't really Know where stuart fits into, That necessarily Whereas,
with sawyer like he's a hand in the dirt four
to three n for the next, five, Years right like
that's a guy that's going to be, a starter another.

(39:38):
SAFER pick i, would say you know what you're getting,
with him and the leadership and the intangibles just off.
The charts my Comp For jack Sawyer Is, Mike.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
RABEL like i really, feel Like.

Speaker 7 (39:51):
And i'm not, saying THAT like i know it's they
all Went To ohio state and they both. Are, captains
no but it's really when you watch, them play neither
one of them we're going to wow you with explosiveness
or athleticism or like be the the most twitched up
guy on. The field but they know how to. Play football,
they're smart they're intelligent guys in the. Football field they're.

(40:13):
Great leaders i'll never get the image out of my
Head with sawyer of him in the Middle Of ohio
state's huddle Before The national, championship game all eyes on
him and he's just in the middle rallying, the troops
getting everybody ready.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
For battle Like That's, Jack SAWYER.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
And i think that's the culture that they need to
start building Here In. NEW england i think That's what
rabel wants to start. Building here you need that guy
that they can look to in those sort of sort.
Of SITUATIONS so, i mean you kind of hit all the.
STOPS there, i agree.

Speaker 8 (40:38):
All right so next We Had carson SWEESHINGER from ucla
linebacker thoughts on.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
That, THERE yeah, i was, YOU know i was late
to him a.

Speaker 7 (40:46):
LITTLE bit i didn't do the linebackers a ton just
because of all the free agent signings that they. Made
there but he's a very very good coverage player and
a very. Instinctive player he's got a little bit of
size to him compared to some of the other guys in,
that mold, You Know, Jeffrey Bossa, barrett carter those guys
are playing at, You Know Chris paul junior twenty five

(41:08):
sweastioningers closer to tow thirty five, to forty which. IS
good i think that that'll help him out IN the
nfl level be a little bit sturdier against. The run
but what you see with him, is range, you know sideline, to,
sideline speed ability to run with verticals in the middle of,
the field. And coverage he's got some really high level
coverage reps on. His tape so if you're one, of those,
you know You're a patriot fan that's starving for, more

(41:30):
athleticism more speed at the, second level he's definitely checking.

Speaker 8 (41:33):
Those boxes so the next, two picks we Had A
gunner Helm from texas tight end AND Then dj Giddens From.
Kansas state this Is where CHRIS and i were kind
of starting to argue a little because there was a
lot of talent still on, the board so we're trying
to see where.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
IT fell i think.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
There's a lot of talent in the middle rounds, for
sure for tight end and for. RUNNING back, i mean
we're Looking At devin neil. As, well yep we Really Like,
devin neil but we kind of had that MINDSET On
dj giddens kind of has that receiver back.

Speaker 9 (41:56):
In him he was awesome in the run game.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
This, past year the ref rovers thirteen. Hundred yards this
he's in like absolute freak.

Speaker 8 (42:04):
On offense so McDaniels likes those receiving running backs.

Speaker 9 (42:07):
And stuff so And also, HELM too i mean just
a prototypical.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Tight, end yeah, you, know yeah just so really he's
very appealing to, the eye especially the page's two older.

Speaker 9 (42:16):
Tight, ends, yeah yeah.

Speaker 7 (42:18):
You know Starting With. Gunner helm so he he injured
his ankle like right before the forty, yard dash ended
up running a pretty bad forty yard dash of, the
combine but it. Was understandable, you know he shared a
picture of it on social media and that thing was
swollen up. And EVERYTHING so i think you can you
can kind of right off. The FORTY like i think
if they, drafted him a lot of people would be

(42:39):
like four to eight, tight end like what are? We
DOING but i would ignore the forty yard dash. With
him my comp for Him Is. HUNTER henry i think
he's just kind. Of crafty he's got. Enough juice if
you want him to run, the seam if you want
him to run a, shallow like he can. Do That
but i'd say he's probably one of the better tight
ends on angular routes and then obviously finding some spots

(43:00):
and zone coverage and just being quarterback friendly over the
middle of. The field he uses his physicality well at
the top of. The route he's not a difference, making
blocker but he can hold.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
His own, you know he.

Speaker 7 (43:10):
Can block he can still. Make guys, you know he'll,
be okay he'll be serviceable as an. Inline BLOCKER so
i see a Lot Of hunter henry, With, HIM like
i think he's just gonna be, a steady reliable quarterback friendly,
security blanket which you know. All no and Then, With
giddins gettins is fun to me because like you know
when you talk about like your your friends at the

(43:32):
why that just got those crafty basketball moves but like
is not athletic necessarily but just knows how. To hoop
LIKE That's. Dj GIDDENS Like dj giddons has some really
like kind of weird moves and like weird body movements,
and uh you know that kind, of stuff but like it,
just WORKS like i, you know it's just one of
those things that that just gets the.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Job done.

Speaker 7 (43:53):
He's, elusive uh he's really good between. THE tackles i
think he's probably one of the better guys in. That
range is like a pure between the tackles. Running back,
YOU know i think there's a lot of speed guys
at that point in. The draft you know Two In,
jaden blue You Know bishard SMITH. From smu but if
you want a guy that can play a little bit
on early downs too and and make some things happen with.

(44:15):
The BALL but i just, WATCHING him i, was like
this guy is kind, Of wonky like he's kind of
he's kind of crafty.

Speaker 8 (44:20):
WITH it i like that, about him, All right so
let's finish. Up here We got seth McLaughlan From, Ohio STATE,
big osu one of. My favorites was A big, chris
pick and then we'll get to the. Other two We
Had kobe King Linebacker, penn state And Then, jimmy horn
which was a bit more. Best available had some Fun With. Jimmy.

Speaker 7 (44:37):
Horn yeah so, you know first, of all, with McLaughlin
it's a good it's a, good pick the, shrewd pick
because you know he's coming off the injury tours achilles
in practice last Year, in november so we might be
looking at a red shirt rookie season. For him but You,
Have garrett Bradberry and house at center that can play
the position for twenty.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Twenty five and if.

Speaker 7 (44:57):
McLachlan, was healthy he'd be the best center in, the draft.
You know so he would be a third or fourth
round pick probably at. That position so you, draft him,
you know a little bit later than that because of,
the injury but in twenty, twenty six if he Was
the patriots, starting, CENTER like i wouldn't. BE shocked i
think that that's. A possibility so THAT that i like about.
That pick, you know you're, looking, ahead right you're, thinking

(45:19):
ahead and you have those extra day three picks now
at the extra fifth in the, Two seventh so it
makes some. SENSE there i think betweting Him And, drew,
kendall like those are the two guys at Center that
i've got my eye on For. The patriots one of
those guys is going to Be.

Speaker 9 (45:32):
A patriot i. DON'T know I like kendall, a LOT
but i really.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Liked yeah, so yeah is that kind of that red
shirt year if he took you his first season here
and kind of Falls, Behind bradbury So give bradbury. A chance,
BUT yeah i really liked everything you Did At. Ohio
STATE and i mean he's kind of a. Field general
he kind of just runs. The show he's a, true center.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
So, yep yep he's a little bit more.

Speaker 7 (45:55):
PLAY strength i, would say, You know kendall's a really,
good athlete really, athletic CENTER whereas i think mclaughlan's, you know, big,
ten right like a little bit more tougher and a
hard nose.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
And that kind. Of.

Speaker 8 (46:07):
Stuff yep And So kobe king linebacker that was kind
of best player on. The, BOARD yeah, i know we
had some Fun With. Jimmy horn you, KNOW me I Like.
COACH prime i think there's anything wrong with picking up
another receiver at. The end see how they.

Speaker 7 (46:18):
Pan out, he's fast right like you're Gonna have you're
gonna have a four to three for, you know high,
FOUR threes i would say is. PROBABLY realistic i think
his pro day was like four, three FIVE and i,
WAS like i don't know if he's, that fast but,
YOU know i think four to four flat to, you
know four three eight is probably a good spot. For
him and if there's one THING that i know for
Sure that drake may, can do it's throw the.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Go ball so if.

Speaker 7 (46:40):
You get him As many goball receivers as, you can
there's nothing wrong. With that so you Throw a horn
in There With Kai shan Boudi With javon, baker maybe,
you know and try to compete for that vertical stretch type.

Speaker 9 (46:53):
Of role he's he's sort of like. A, jitterbug yeah
that's THE way i would.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Just try he's kind of a jitterbug out in the,
open field kind of moves, really well obviously has a ton,
of SPEED and, i think, you know it's an.

Speaker 9 (47:03):
APPEALING pick i don't know if they're gonna take.

Speaker 8 (47:04):
Him, there yeah it's just, you know let's have some
fun at the end of, the, draft Because like evan
said in, the past we need a. FAIRWAY draft i
think we kind of. Hit, that yeah touched up upon
a bit. Upon everything so what letter grade would you
Give the CHRIS and t?

Speaker 9 (47:17):
Spot overall.

Speaker 7 (47:18):
THAT'S it i think what you said Is, fair like
it's a good. Fairway draft it's a good. Realistic draft,
YOU know i see a lot of, mock Drafts and
i'm not trying to, throw SHADE but i see a
lot of mock drafts where people are taking guys that
are going to go two rounds earlier, or like, you know.
Something crazy THIS one i think is more or. Less realistic,
You know buka might go a little bit earlier than,
thirty eight that might need to be a. Trade up but,

(47:39):
IN general i think all these guys are going TO be,
nfl players Right And will campbell hopefully be better. Than
that but, You, Know Bukah, Jack, sawyer sweahingert like those
guys are going to be good to, QUALITY starters i
would say IN the nfl at their respective positions and
type of this type. Of draft that's what you're. Going for,

(48:00):
you know we all want to see them hit on
like an all pro, caliber player, you know like they
did a couple of years Ago. With gonzo, BUT realistically
i think that this is what we're.

Speaker 8 (48:08):
Looking, at awesome, All right CHRISTY plus b plus. We'll,
plus yeah we'll take.

Speaker 9 (48:13):
That, PAIR.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah b plus.

Speaker 9 (48:17):
That's better that's that's your playing on.

Speaker 8 (48:18):
The greens we'll take you. Have it thank you so
much for joining our little mock. Draft, segment guys we're
gonna go to the offensive, line next where we'll Talk
About will campbell and maybe McLoughlin. As well so let's
get to that.

Speaker 5 (48:28):
Segment next we're here talking the, offensive line, And guys
i'm gonna say that this might be what we're most
qualified to talk About, BECAUSE chris i don't know, about
YOU but i was an offensive tackle in. High school
here at my one hundred and ninety. Five pounds did
you play a little old?

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Tackle?

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Too guard little little, little guard little center were derailed
by the, foot injury.

Speaker 9 (48:45):
But you don't want to get.

Speaker 5 (48:47):
Into, details, sees guys your size OF why i gave
up FOOTBALL because i was not big enough to be.
A tackle so, jokes, aside though it's a big position
to need For, the patriots and we're gonna touch. On
guards we're gonna talk a little bit on centers. As
well just off the, top though i'mnna start, With, you
chris just, real quick, offensive tackle, offensive, Guard center how
would you rank those positions of need For?

Speaker 8 (49:06):
THE patriots i.

Speaker 9 (49:07):
Would, say, one two three has to, be tackle. CENTER'S
guards i.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Think you have a lot of guards, right now a
lot of young guards kind of that you're working. With
currently you want to see kind of what you're gonna
do the cold strange, as well so you have that
in there In. Play city so is still on. The
team you know a lot of guys that you've been
working with over the last couple. Of years you want
to kind of see what you can do. With them but,
FOR me i think obviously the Release Of david andrews

(49:32):
important fill there, at center and, OF course i mean
they don't have a left TACKLE and i think that
just has to be your point.

Speaker 8 (49:39):
Of, emphasis yeah you teet, It up Chris.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
And evan this.

Speaker 5 (49:42):
Is it we're finally the moment in draft countdown where
we're going to Talk About will campbell all, right now
we've Talked About. Will campbell i's, gonna say finally to,
this point but this is the official draft count down
Discussion Of, will CAMPBELL and i know we're going to
talk about but let me just set the stage a.
LITTLE bit, i mean this guy's been starting a left
tackle since he was freshman in. High school he's Two TIME.
All sec he is highly, highly athletic but he.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Has some questions about.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
His length.

Speaker 8 (50:06):
I've heard is that is?

Speaker 7 (50:07):
That?

Speaker 4 (50:07):
Correct evan is that how you would?

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Put it you might you might, Say, that mike you might.

Speaker 7 (50:10):
SAY that i think the biggest thing to on the
pro Side For will campbell as, a tackle he wins with.
His feet he's not trying to win with great size or.
Great length he wins with, his feet and he is
a fantastic mirror in past protection with his feet, inside
outside really protects the edge very. Very well but when
he does get his hands, on people he's got cinderblocks,

(50:33):
For hands he's got very, strong core and he's got
that ability to get your hands inside and really end
reps quickly and, you know control blocks and things. LIKE
that i think some of the concerns that people have
with the length they're valid in some respects that you
see at times that he'll drift out to his past
sets trying to get guys off his outside shoulder and

(50:53):
that will open up. The inside so you see a
lot of inside moves get to him. At TIMES but
I would i don't see a ton of is bull
rushers or edge rushers on, the edge, you know cutting
that speed to turn. THE corner i think he protects
the corner. Pretty well but you have to understand that
there are limitations that he's going to have to work
around with his. Arm length but at the, same time

(51:16):
he's the best blocker in. THE draft i have had
him as the number one offensive lineman from wire to
wire here in this, draft PROCESS and i think it's
by a pretty. WIDE margin i would say that he's
the best. Offensive lineman just.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
To just to jump in on it with the, arm length,
You know i've never been a full believer, in that did?

Speaker 4 (51:36):
You EVER.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
So i.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
Could not.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
But that, BEING said I Mean, will campbell like, you
said he's been playing left tackle his. Whole career he
knows how to play the position and arm length at,
that point like, he again he's already been doing.

Speaker 9 (51:56):
It well like it shouldn't be that much of.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
A discussion i know is important to, talk about, and
like OBVIOUSLY the nfl defensive ends and ed rushers are
much different, from college, you know just different beasts on
that side of.

Speaker 9 (52:09):
The ball but he knows how to play. THE position
i think that's what's.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Important MOST and I Mean travis Hunter and abdulcutter and on,
THE board i really think it's hard to Not Go.

Speaker 5 (52:19):
Will, campbell yeah and he did IN the, sec two
which of course it's a badge of Honor For. Will
campbell the OTHER guy i really want to highlight before
we kind of start grouping players a, little bit Is
armand membo blew up.

Speaker 4 (52:29):
The combine three.

Speaker 5 (52:30):
Year starter right tackle six four three, thirty two built
like a, right tackle some maybe, discussion now could he
possibly move to left tackle with his athleticism doesn't have the.
IDEAL link i would say height problem. For him but
have he blew up? The combine and after we, got
back all of, a sudden we had mock drafts popping
Up with membo being the pick.

Speaker 7 (52:48):
Fourth, overall yeah and when you watch his tape to
the movement skills and the athleticism show up all over,
the film especially in the, RUN game i would say
he's really good at reaching blocks on the line, of scrimmage,
you know the front. Side end you pull them inside
and allow those runners to get. The corner he can
get up to the, second level he, can combo he
can hit somebody on the, first level get up to

(53:09):
the second level on a corner safety. Or linebacker so
he's really talented and you can. See that and pass
protection gets out of his stands, pretty well slides. PRETTY
well i think the one THING that i had hesitation
with him on his. Game tape, you know first, of
all as a run blocker can get a little over
zealous and get a little, bit extended over extended and
like guys, you know backdoor him and things. Like that

(53:30):
but in, pass protection there's not a TON of nfl
style dropbacks on. His Film, at missouri particularly, last year
they run a lot of. Moving pockets they chip a
lot with their running backs and tight ends coming out of,
the backfield so they don't necessarily put their tackles on
islands like.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
You SAW with Lsu And.

Speaker 7 (53:50):
Will campbell so when you're trying to translate him to,
left tackle do we have enough evidence that he can
pass protect on the blind side at a highlight level
To Keep drake.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
MAY clean i don't know if we necessarily.

Speaker 7 (54:03):
Have that it's probably a little bit more Projecting for
membu in that respect than it would Be for campbell.

Speaker 9 (54:09):
To kind of go off.

Speaker 6 (54:11):
Of that.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
EVAN too, i mean you already kind of made that
kind of trial and Error With, kayten wallace of course
primary right Tackle At.

Speaker 9 (54:18):
Penn state tried him on the.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Left side he did, get hurt so you don't know
exactly what he's capable, of there but there's probably. Still
POTENTIAL but i just think you need that true been playing. The,
position yeah that's kind of my.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
Take off You Signed morgan.

Speaker 8 (54:33):
Moses Too.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
Kadon wallace we Here From elliot wolf down at the,
owners meetings feeling like it seems like you're, gonna have,
you know a Right Side kaden wallace probably gonna be
maybe a, swing tackle but most likely on the. RIGHT
side i want to go down the list a little.
Bit here i'll throw a few names, at. You guys
names we've heard a lot though over the course of mock,
draft season which of course plenty of mock drafts.

Speaker 4 (54:53):
Out there you want to go.

Speaker 5 (54:54):
Find one But Between, calvin banks who was maybe in
the conversation early On With will campbell up near, The Top,
josh connery another guy has seen plenty of, mock drafts,
very athletic ariante ursery just three. Popular names and the
Last one i'll throw in There Is, josh simmons who
could possibly be the best left tackle eventually in this
class if, he didn't, you know.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Get hurt this past season was off to a really.

Speaker 5 (55:15):
Promising START stat i Saw On, josh simmons, you know
only allow, you know just, highly, athletic big but a
little bit of. Projection there maybe not What the patriots
need for some. Immediate health just overall when you look
at that group of what do you?

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Take, away Yeah With, kelvin banks are going to steal
a phrase.

Speaker 7 (55:30):
From you he's kind of in the doughnut to me
of Like the patriots at four And the patriots at.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Thirty eight maybe he follows a little.

Speaker 7 (55:37):
Bit further than people think and they could slide up
to like twenty or, twenty one twenty two.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
That range and Still Get.

Speaker 7 (55:43):
Kelvin BANKS but i see him as a guy through
and through that goes in the teams of most drafts at.
That position really good, run blocker really athletic. Run blocker
but you watch his Tape against clemson In The College
football playoff and he was just dominant in that game
in the, run Game Sprung jaden blue for like an eighty,
yard touchdown, you know just going right. Behind him so

(56:04):
there's a lot of That With. Calvin banks it's a positives.
FOR him i think his, body controlling his balance and
pass protection is where people knock him a.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Little bit, you know when he has to.

Speaker 7 (56:14):
Get out and redirect and mirror guys out on, the
edge he can sometimes lose his balance and his body
control get a little wild with. His technique so there's
some things to work on there with him in. That
RESPECT but i still feel like he's a pretty plug
and play tackle in. The pros and when you, have
that those guys usually go, Top twenty like you're not

(56:35):
usually looking at those guys late some of the other
guys You mentioned Ursery, and connerly, to me is a.
Flavor thing it just depends on what kind of tackle.
You want, You know ursery is a, bigger guy, you know,
six six three hundred and, thirty pounds three hundred and.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Forty pounds he has all of the big, tackle.

Speaker 7 (56:52):
Tools right, you know he's a, people mover he's a great,
Run blocker he's athletic for. His size he gets out
of his, stance quickly but he can really dent the line.
Of scrimmage, you know you can run right behind him
on the goal line and have a pretty good idea
that you're going to get the. Football In So, Trent Brown,
orlando brown, you know like those kinds Of guys like
that's kind OF what i See. With ursery connerly is

(57:13):
the more athletic of, the two but, he's smaller better,
pass protector moves a little bit better in terms of
that type. Of STUFF but i think that's just what you're, looking.
At right do you want the people moving tackle or
do you want the high level. Pass protector and you
kind of have to side between those two two typically
eileen towards the pass protector when you're talking about the,

(57:33):
blind side but in general that that's where. We're at and,
last one, You, know simmons he easily could have been
the best left tackle in the draft if he had.
Stayed healthy but there's. TWO things a he's, not healthy,
you know that's a big. One tear so that's that's
usually a year off, from football calendar year off. From
football so you, have that you might be looking at

(57:55):
him red shirting as. A rookie i don't know If
the patriots are in the camp of being able to
red shirt first, round. PICKS right i think they need
their guys to play and to make an impact. Early
ON and i would also just mention because of, the
injury he did not get to the Meat Of ohio.
State schedule so he played beat up on bad, competition
basically Is what i'm. Getting at so when He, played

(58:17):
oregon when He, played michigan when he played teams In
The College, football playoff like what he had still been
dominant against. Those teams will. Never know and that's the. Tough,
PART yeah i just. REAL quick i got to. Jump
in just ONE thing i watched over the course of my.

Speaker 5 (58:32):
Film study was there. On YouTube you guys can. Find
It It's josh Connolly Versus. Abdul, carter yeah and that
matchup just shows How Athletic josh. Connolly is that's what you're,
looking for that left, tackle position, GREAT feet, I Mean
abdull carter, Highly Athletic. Josh connolly connolly was able to moot.
With him impressive, To, me chris what do you got on?

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Those, GUYS yeah i mean Talking About kelvin banks. LIVE
earlier i really like his second. Level blocking if it's
all as he's saying in, the box if he gets
outsiding off you a, little ify But Love kelvin banks
at the. Second level connolly kind of. Same thing can
kind of get, out there help you in, run blocking
but also a great. Pass protector another guy that we.

Speaker 9 (59:04):
Haven't Mentioned.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Hyatt milliam he's been playing LEFT tackle i think thirty
three games Straight At, west virginia so you know he's really.
Comfortable there another guy really great in. Pass PROTECTION so,
i think as we've said time and, time again you.
NEED that i think primary. Left tackle you know that's
what you're.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
Looking for You saw melon down at the senior.

Speaker 8 (59:23):
Ball.

Speaker 7 (59:23):
Right Yeah SO millim i think is gonna play guard
at the. Next level he's a little bit. SHORTER arms
i know we had talked about That With, will campbell
but his arms are in the lower end of the
thirty two range. For tackle it's probably not likely and
he's kind of a power, oriented player so it looks
like he'd fit win well. At guard he actually took
some reps at center two down, in mobiles so they're

(59:45):
looking at him as maybe somebody that could play all
three positions on.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
THE interier I Love.

Speaker 7 (59:49):
WYATT milliam i think that that's like a great third
round pick option For the patriots as somebody that could
Probably play day one at left guard if they wanted.
Him TO and i know they have some names that
they could throw at a left guard with their recent,
draft picks but if they really wanted to remake the
left side of the, offensive line and they came out
of this Draft with Campbell And, wiltt milin like that's

(01:00:10):
the left side for the next, five years, you know
or maybe. Even LONGER so i feel really good about him.
At guard maybe not so much, at tackle but there
are some DEVELOPMENTAL tackles i think are. Interesting too, you
Know Just charles Grant from William, and mary a really,
great athlete probably has to be remade in, pass protection
but an awesome run blocker already just pops off, the tape,

(01:00:31):
you know against that. Level Competition anthony Belton From enzie
state another GUY that i think can have some tools
and has some upside maybe as a. DEVELOPMENTAL player i
know you were going To Mention, Logan, brown.

Speaker 5 (01:00:43):
Yeah, kid, yes yeah a little bit of, ro big all,
the sides all, the measurables just raw one season as. A,
startup yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:00:49):
And, you know he he had some Issues at wisconsin
that they'll have to vet off, the field ended up
leaving that program and Going, To kansas so that's kind
of knocked him down the board a. Little BIT but
i think, tools wise, you know he would be a
top one hundred pick if it was just based off of,
the football but unfortunately he had an incident with a
Teammate at wisconsin and it caused him. To transfer, so.

Speaker 5 (01:01:10):
Yeah just to put a boat here on the, TACKLE
class I gotta i gotta MENTION our, Bc Guy. AUSIE
tropello i know you, saw him, giant guy, right tackle
played a little left tackle early in his CAREER, at
bc but it seems like he's added maybe a little
bit of Weight even but he's an ascending kind. OF
prospect i just don't know guys like if they need
to take a right tackle. Right now it just feels
like if you're going to draft the tackle in, this
class you at least need some kind of hope that

(01:01:32):
maybe he's going to be able to get on the
left side, Anybody Else, so chris for you down the
list that we didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Mention, honestly yeah, all, right cool let's move on.

Speaker 5 (01:01:42):
Just guards and centers and. You guys you said at, The,
top chris a lot of guards on. The offense you're
hoping that some of those guys. WORK out i mean
they've thrown a lot at the wall over the last.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Few years at.

Speaker 5 (01:01:52):
That position not a lot right now you feel confident, About,
that oh we We got we're all Set With layden.
ROBINSON there i think personally i'd love To see robinson
work out of left guard and we don't have to think.
About it, but again they're gonna have to prove it on.
The field just a few guys go to throw out.
At Guard greys abel, outstanding athlete lower level school And
See North. Dakota state but another guy you saw At

(01:02:12):
The senior bowl and probably a first.

Speaker 7 (01:02:14):
Round, pick fantastic like just a fantastic. FOOTBALL player i
see a lot of all. Five, POSITIONS yeah i see
a Lot.

Speaker 9 (01:02:19):
Of joe toney in.

Speaker 7 (01:02:20):
His game you know he's probably gonna play to guard after,
playing tackle mostly. In college but there's a really good
track record of moving left tackles from college to the
left guard in The Pro, Zach Martin, Joe Toney, Brandon
Sheriff Elijah, Vera tucker like the list goes on, and
ON and i think. He's next he's going to be
next in. That line, just athletic great, pass protector plays

(01:02:41):
with great leverage and hand strength in a bolt of
run and. PASS game i couldn't say enough good things
About grays abel. Like that i'm the doughnut, two though
Absolutely stud he's going to be a hell of a
player for a long. Long time, BUT this i, would say,
you know just, in general looking at, this draft this
is a strength at the draft is interior, offensive line
especially when you figure in all the tackles that, in

(01:03:04):
college tackles that could, Move inside like we were just
Talking about milom And You donovan jackson played a little
Tackle At, ohio State and Zabel And cam Williams from
texas might.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Move inside campbell obviously might.

Speaker 7 (01:03:17):
Move inside so there's a bunch of guards in this
draft that are really. Really appealing it just as a
matter of how early Did the patriots want to jump on.
A guard and they Do have robinson and So and
strange and some guys that they've already picked early the
last couple. Of YEARS but i think a lot of
those guys in this draft are better than some of
the guys they have currently on.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
The, roster CHRIS before i, Go you i'm gonna throw
one more guy in, The Mix Tyler. Booker alabama i'm
almost only putting him on right now because his cool
Thing with colmin is he loves taking the love of.

Speaker 8 (01:03:47):
The game away. From people Just that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:49):
Mahler mentality that to Me Screams.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
MIKE rabele i heard him.

Speaker 5 (01:03:53):
Say THAT then i turned on the tape of him
and he's just running, it full knocking him to.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
The ground really.

Speaker 9 (01:03:58):
Tough, PLAYER yeah, I Mean tyler bergee is a natural.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Football power like he lines up on, the field he's
just gonna he's gonna hunt. You down that's just how
that's the ovisive line, Of mentality like you're gonna line
up in front, Of me i'm gonna beat you off.

Speaker 9 (01:04:09):
The ball that's just how it's. Gonna be the other
two guys want To mention.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Georgia Guys tate Ralage And dylan fairchild both really Solid,
guards fairchild both of them better and.

Speaker 9 (01:04:20):
Pass protected.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Pass protection fairchild kind of hit still mats at the
front of the line on. RUN game i want to
see him working on the spot work a little, bit
MORE BUT i o would sly those two guys are.

Speaker 8 (01:04:30):
Really, solid yeah one more eye just still throw.

Speaker 5 (01:04:32):
In There donovan jackson who went over to left Tackle
for simmons when he. Got hurt another guy he's probably
first first, round pick top, fifty pick plug and play kind.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Of, guys yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:04:41):
Really smooth just you see the way. HE moves i
think definitely fits. More guard just the body type and
the play style is more guard. Than tackle but You,
mentioned BOOKER and i Wouldn't rule booker out at. Thirty
eight he did not have a. Great combine you don't
see guards typically drafted high, in general but especially guards
that aren't great athletes don't get drafted high. In general

(01:05:02):
the amount of business decisions that people Made when booker
was pulling up to the second d literally not a
single person wanted to get in front of that. Freight
train like it was incredible to watch the amount of
guys that would just start, backing up like, all, right
yeah you, got, it dude so downhill run Game, at
alabama like they love. Pulling guards they love smash mouth Football.

(01:05:25):
In tuscaloosa josh McDaniels loves smash. Mouth football That's a. Patriot,
guard like That's a. Patriot GUARD so i could. See
him good Shout. WITH fairchild i loved. HIS tape i
thought he's kind of underrated in. This draft, former college
a high. SCHOOL wrestler i should say he went one
hundred and sixty two to zero in his high school,
wrestling career, never lost which. Is incredible two time. State

(01:05:48):
champion and you can, see that, you know on, his
tape just the way that he can grapple with guys
and leverage guys and things. Like that so he's a really,
good blocker, really versatile can do a bunch of. Different
THINGS so i could see him being an option to at.

Speaker 5 (01:06:02):
Left card, all, right lastly let's just move on to the.
Center position always really hard. To project these guys are
not usually, the top, you know first few rounds of.
The draft it's more, very, specific need very specific player
that you're going to. BE selecting i just want to
Throw out seth, mcla McGlaughlin who run, the One The
rimington trophy is the best center of, the nation and
of course keeping A Local, drew kendall Son Of pete
kendall UP. AT bc i know you saw him as

(01:06:23):
well AT The Bc.

Speaker 7 (01:06:24):
Pro, day yeah those are two GUYS that i would
look at. At Center and i'd also just mention some
of these guys that we talked about. MOVING inside a
lot of these guys are taking reps at center during
the pre. Draft process, You Know Zabel milam bolt did
it In The. Senior bowl so is there a chance
that one of those guys ends up at center? LONG
term i would, Say yes but those are the two.
True centers and McLaughlin had a bad injury last Year

(01:06:47):
At ohio state in practice Unfortunately tours achilles so's, he's
injured Just Like. Josh simmons so you're kind of getting
into that same conversation there. With him but maybe you
do get him now later on date because of, the
injury and you stash Him Behind gaarre bradbury for a
year and maybe he's your center in twenty. TWENTY six
i don't. Hate That And drew kendall just makes so

(01:07:09):
much sense, for them, You Know doug maron was there
last Year the patriots offensive Line coach bill O'Brien and josh. McDaniels'
offenses they're very. Adjacent center, you know obviously a big
mental load on, the CENTER and i feel like that
would be a seamless transition for him into those. Two
PLAYBOOKS so i think that makes all the sense in.
The world but he's getting a lot of buzz right
now and he's starting to climb the board a, Little

(01:07:31):
BIT so i think you're looking at mid day Three
For Drew kendall Gunny, Centers, CHRIS.

Speaker 9 (01:07:35):
Yeah i just want to Touch On drew kendell. THE lot,
i mean it's awesome ability.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
As, well yeah it's very pleasing to get outside on
screen passes and kind of lead the charge like, that's
huge especially when you need the speed at center as
you're the third guy.

Speaker 9 (01:07:45):
Out there, you know you gotta gotta be.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Out FRONT so i Really Like, drew kendall but a
couple Other Guys JONAH monheim usc he has a great first.
STEP there i Really Liked eli cox Out of kentucky
KIND of sec one OF the, sec tackles.

Speaker 9 (01:08:01):
So he has that going.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
For him he has a, really great great speed also
really good second level blocker on the.

Speaker 9 (01:08:07):
Run game kind of needs a little more help in.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Pass PRO but i, mean again you like to run
the ball Here In, new england Especially with Mandre and
gibson there in, The backfield so there's that Upside In
marie smith Out Of.

Speaker 5 (01:08:18):
Florida state, All, right well that's gonna cover the. Offensive
line big position to need, of course starts with the.
Tackle position could Be a patriots potential pick at, fourth
overall and that's going to do it for this Edition
A Patriots draft countdown Presented By. Bud light only one
more pre recorded episode, to go and in, that one
we're going to be talking about the, wide receivers the,
tight ends and the.

Speaker 4 (01:08:36):
Running backs it's a.

Speaker 5 (01:08:37):
Fun one that's the one we all look, forward to
and that's why today.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
The.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Well no question left tackle is a.

Speaker 5 (01:08:44):
Big need but also to tease our, final show we're
going to be Live On. Draft day, of course at
night we'll be live WITH The, pu show but earlier
in the day about, one pm we'll be running a
live show here The Final Patriots. Draft countdown have some
fun as we're all waiting for the draft. To start
so thanks for tuning into, this episode and we'll be
back next week with.

Speaker 8 (01:09:01):
Another ONE

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Mm hm

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Episode Transcript

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Patriots Draft Countdown: Previewing the Offensive Line, Will Campbell Film Review and Brandon Thorn Interview

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