Tune-in as we recap everything that stood out from Day 3 of the NFL Scouting Combine. We discuss our impressions of CB/WR Travis Hunter and take a look at the tight end prospects. We are joined by ESPN's Jordan Reid, who highlights the top prospects at the Combine and which have the best Patriots fits.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to an NFL draft hosted by the writers of
Patriots dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
From now until you here the New England Patriots.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
Wide, the countdown is on.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to the Patriots Draft Countdown, presented by bud Light.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Welcome everybody.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
We're coming to you from the NFL scouting combine here
in Indianapolis at is Thursday.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We just heard from the cornerbacks, the tight ends, the safeties.
Speaker 5 (00:28):
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light, bud Light,
easy to Drink, Easy to enjoy, bud Light, the official
beer sponsor of the New England Patriots, and Evan. We
are just plowing through the days here. It's starting to
get a little bit like groundhog Day. But certainly the
highlight today Travis Hunter, a player that the Patriots could
possibly be in the mix for at the top of
the draft. Would you think of him at the podium?
I know we had to like weasel in there and
(00:49):
try to It was a huge crowd to barely hear
this I have of all the time. You know, Look,
the quarterbacks are always a big draw.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm sure when Shador Sanders talks tomorrow, they'll be a
giant scrum and front of his podium as well. But
in my time coming to the Combine, that was one
of the biggest media scrumbs I've ever seen. I mean,
we're talking about you had to put that man in
an auditorium and you have all the seats or something
like that, because this wasn't big at the Convention Center,
was not big enough.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
You got guys who love offense, you got guys who
love defense. Everybody's here to watch this. This one exceptional player.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
It was incredible. It was incredible to watch.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And look, I understand that I'm trumpeting this.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
This is a meat and potatoes offseason for the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
As much as I would love to sit here and
say go get the shiny new toy, go get the
Heisman winning two way superstar player like Travis Hunter, I
think we all feel the same way. Trenches trenches trenches. Now,
with that being said, I was really impressed. I mean,
when you.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Talk about swagger, you talk about a guy that.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Can just come in and have that confidence in that bravado.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That instant star type of impact.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
He just oozes with confidence, and I thought that was
just very, very apparent.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
We spoke with.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Elliott Wolf yesterday.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
He told us that they had, you know, they'd written
up both scouting reports on him as a wide receiver
as well as a cornerback. And it seems like a
lot of teams really view him. Some view him as
a wide receiver, some view as a cornerback. Still there's
no real consensus at this point. It seems like he
still would like to play both sides, but he's open
to whatever teams might, you know, where they might see
him fitting in. But it's just there's so much to
(02:24):
talk about with him because there's so much potential on
both sides of the ball. Yeah, I think the scuttle butt,
as we were just talking about the origin of the
scuttle butt.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
The scuttle butt to me, though, which is.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That's interesting, is a lot more teams, some of them publicly,
like the Cleveland Browns and Andrew Berry, are viewing him
as a wide receiver. And I didn't think that was
going to be the popular take here. And I'm not
saying it's every team or even consensus, but I would
say it's a lot more than what I expected just
talking to people around here this week that view Travis
(02:55):
Hunter as predominantly a wide receiver, and I think the
main reason is that you look at his deduction at
that position last year at Colorado, like, how do you
not feed the guy that had sixteen touchdowns the ball?
Like it's impossible in the league where points are always
the number one thing on everybody's mind to say, no, actually,
we're going to play that guy just at cornerback when
(03:16):
we know that we have a number one receiver also
standing there on the sideline while the offense is on
the field. So he said that he wants to play
both ways. Didn't like you said, he kind of left
it up to the organization that drafts him to really
hatch that plan of how to make it happen. But
I think a lot more people are saying Travis Hunter
wide receiver than I expected.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
So you mentioned scuttle bunts the word of the day.
That's what happens here in Indianapolis. A lot of late nights,
people talking agents GMS all that that's when talk comes,
but also at Starbucks, fights at Starbucks apparently, but also
it's when medical testing happens and some things start to
come out. Now, the two big names for the Patriots
that we've been talking about already. It feels like forever
Travis Hunter, and of course Abdul Carter, who we heard
(03:57):
from earlier in the week. Some news comes out Abdul
Carter's got a bit of a stress factor in his foot.
It might take some time for him.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Now.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Teams have to kind of weigh this, and I think
there's probably a lot of Patriots fans.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Out there being like, can I just push him out
of the top three?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Maybe, But I'm gonna say this right now, like, given that,
given what we've been hearing a little bit about some
of the quarterbacks, it doesn't seem out of the realm
that the Patriots might have a chance at Carter or
Hunter still might be a long shot, but not totally
out of the question.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Just starting with Abdul Carter, I think there is some
concern about this being one of those lingering injuries, not
to say that it's career threatening by any means, but
just one of those things that could maybe linger into
his rookie season or into his rookie training camp. So
how do you best go about managing that is going
to be very interesting, and with all these things they
(04:47):
will have thirty visits where their team doctors will get
their hands on each player that they bring in.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Again.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So now at the top of the draft, I'm sure
Abdul Carter was going to go to Tennessee and was
going to go to Cleveland in New York, in New
England anyways, but now it's definitely even bigger to get
those medical rechecks in a couple of months to see
where he's at physically with his foot injury. Do I
think that it knocks him out of the top three?
Probably not. I don't think it sounds like it's anything
(05:16):
long term that anybody's worried about, but it is another thing,
and just in general, looking at this class right now,
there's a lot of guys that are either hurt opting
out of workouts here in Indianapolis more than I can remember.
I have no doubta to back it up, but just
off a feeling, yeah, like I feel like that's happened
a lot more. We just found out this morning that
Kenneth Grant, the really talented nose tackle from Michigan, but
(05:39):
I thought was going to be a huge tester here
at the combine, he's not going to work out because
of an injury.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
We just saw Colston.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Lovelin, the other really talented player from Michigan tight end,
had his shoulder in a sling like he's got a
ac reconstructive surgery. So there's a lot of these guys
at the top of the draft that are either not
working out by choice or are Yeah, and that's a
bummer just for the fans.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah, well you mentioned Colston Lovelin. Let's transition.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
We also heard from the tight ends today, of course,
Tyler Warren from Penn State a toop that list.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
He just seems like a.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
Country tight end, tough meat and potatoes kind of a guy.
You can feel the confidence off of him, which is
kind of a theme that you pick up here at
the combine.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
We mentioned it with the Georgia guys yesterday.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
There are certain guys that just have that presence where
you're like, this guy feels like he's.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Already in the league.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Harold Fan and Junior another guy I think you saw
him down at the Senior Bowl who's got a little
bit of intrigue to him. Elliott told us yesterday that
this is a strong tight end class, and yeah, you know,
Patriots Austin Hooper up for free agency. He resigned Hunter Henry.
He's going to be around, but could be a need,
could be a stinky need and maybe a place that
the Patriots could add a weapon if they're not enamored
(06:47):
with this wide receiver class.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, it's an interesting conversation of if you're not enamored
by the wide receivers and you get to the draft
and you have an opportunity, you know, maybe you hit
the trenches in the free agency and you feel good
about where you are there, do you then go ahead
and draft to Tyler Warren or Colson Loveland at the
top of the draft. But then there's also the argument,
and this is sort of the debates we always get into, Well.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
There's also depth to this tight end class.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So do you have to draft one at four overall
or after a trade down or something like that in
the first round, or can you wait for a Harold Fannin,
a Mason Taylor and Elijah Royo, Tyler Ferguson, you know,
those types of players that are gonna be a little
bit further down the board the board.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think that there's some.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Intriguing talent there on Day two of this draft fan
and is more of that physical specimen. I've compared him
to like an Isaiah likelier John Smith in the past.
Mason Taylor is kind of that prototypical why tight end
that can do a little bit of everything. I definitely
look at those two guys as potential targets for the Patriots.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
It'd be great to.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Get into developmental guys, somebody who really moves the needle
a little bit as a weapon. And you wonder with
Lovelan getting that reconstruction. I know you're a big fan
of his top half of the first round. Maybe that
pushes him down a little bit. So as much as they're.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Like thirty eight, you know, it's about thirty eight, Like
I just you can't take the chance on the shoulder,
got a way.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
I mean, you're gonna start getting testing numbers too as well.
And Levan and I are gonna head over who gets
access this year to watch some of the workouts. Yeah,
but you get the measurements you get. Obviously we've mentioned
the injury issues that pop up that may, you know,
push guys down the board, but you also get athletic
freaks or are gonna run like crazy times that you're
like a man that size should not run that fast,
So those guys are gonna rise up a little bit.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And I think that's a little bit of what the
fun is at the combine that you have. All of
a sudden your board gets a little bit readjusted and.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Somebody you know, jumps out of the roof, jumps out
of the roof of the gym, and he rises up
the board and other guy's got a little bit of
an inch injury as you he goes back down. So
testing starting today, anything you're looking we're starting again. They're
a day behind with the workouts. So yesterday we heard
from the defensive line and the linebackers they'll be first
up testing and then today's guys will test tomorrow, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
So as we head over there and we get going
with the.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Testing, I know you always do a right up in
an analysis of these workouts that the people love. Anything specific
you're looking for off the top of your mind.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, like I said, I'm bumming that Grant's not going
to work out because he was one of the guys
that I think was gonna just at his size at
you know, three thirty three forty was going to kind
of put on a show.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
But I'll give you two at the top of the draft.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Shamar Stewart from Texas A and m I think is
going to have an absolutely massive workout. You know, he's
a freak athlete, a big, long guy. There's some Trayvon
Walker comparisons there where he could have an outstanding workout
here this week and then that could project him into
the top ten of the draft just off of raw measurables.
Another similar player, similar position, Mikel Williams from Georgia. I'm
(09:38):
really looking to see if he has a similar workout.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
His production in college isn't really there.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Some of that's role in the defense, some of that
is a little bit of rawness with you know, his
technique and his pass rush plan and all that kind
of stuff. But if those two guys really dazzle here
today at the workouts, then they could really skyrocket up
the board.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
All right, Well, we're gonna throw it to an interview
right now. Levin had an op oportunity to sit down
with Jordan Reed. I think was the third year we've
we've had the rising start. ESPN Draft guru knows a ton.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I let Evan.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
I just let Evan go because I knew like you
guys are just going to nerd out on this stuff.
So great interview here with Jordan Reed. Check it out now.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
We're Jordan Now by Jordan Reid from ESPN. Jordan Underscore
read on Twitter. Are e I d though right? Not
like the tight end though, which I know you get
a lot. So we're gonna talk some draft here with
Jordan does a great job over at ESPN covering the
draft in college football, and I just wanted to get
right into it. You put out a tweet last week
(10:34):
that I really thought hit the nail on the head
about this draft. At the talent you know from four
to twelve in this draft this year is kind of
the same. And I feel like this is a struggle
right now for Patriots fans as we debate, you know,
Will Campbell, Mason Graham, Ted McMillan, whatever is that they
you can make arguments for all these guys, and this
does feel like a kind of a tough spot in
(10:56):
a lot of ways for the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 6 (10:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It does.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
And there's only three blue chip guys in this year's
draft class to me, and that's Travis Hunter. I'll do
a Carter and Mason Graham after that, I think things
get really sketchy as far as where you could go
in this year's draft class. But the one thing or
piece of advice if I was in the draft room
with the Patriots this year, is that I don't think
they should pigeonhole themselves into drafting, particularly one position. Leave
(11:22):
your draft board open, and we'll see what they do
in free agency. They have a boatload of money, so
the best thing for them is attack free agency with
an aggressive plan to address obviously wide receiver an offensive line,
which are the two biggest areas of need. So now
you go into the draft, especially at the number four
overall pick, to where now you can leave yourself open
(11:44):
to taking any position.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So one thing that perked out for me just now,
he said, Mason Graham, you think he's a blue chip
player in this draft? I feel like he's maybe one
of the more volatile prospects for Patriots fans. What makes
you think that he's a blue chip guy. It's just
the combination of everything that he does at the position.
And if you go back and look at every big
time game that Michigan had throughout his career, he was
absolutely sensational and all of him, and you know he's
(12:08):
not gonna look as good physically as his counterparts in
this year's draft class, but if you turn on the tape,
he's the most disruptive of all those guys. I think
he's firm as a run defender. He can hold at
the point of attack, he can stack and shade if
you need him to a the point of attack as
a run defender. But also he got so much better
as a pass rusher throughout his career. And you have
to remember, this guy hasn't been playing defensive line for
very long. When he got to Michigan, he was just
(12:30):
really starting his career as a defensive lineman. So I
just think the upside that he has, and then just
how good he can be two to three years from now.
He's that piece that you can build around at the
center of your defense, last one at the top. Then
I want to pick your brain about some of the
depth guys in this class. It does feel like an
ideal scenario might be a trade down for the Patriots.
But one thing I've been thinking a lot about is
(12:51):
in order to trade down, somebody's got to want to
trade up, right exactly, So do you feel like that
fourth pick could have value in a trade down this year, Like,
do you see that scenario being plausible?
Speaker 6 (13:01):
I think if one of the quarterbacks are there, I
think it's a possibility. Now I think both are gonna
somehow end up going inside of the top three, unfortunately
for the Patriots. But let's say cam Ward or Showld
or Sanders slips to that fourth spot. Now you're talking
about the Raiders potentially trading up. You're probably not gonna
give a draft pick to the Jets or quarterbacks to
the Jets. Yeah, hypothetically speaking, let's say the Raiders want
(13:23):
to come up and acquire the quarterback of the future.
I definitely could see a scenario like that playing out
if one of those quarterbacks slipped.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about wide receivers.
That's the other big topic for the Pats right now.
As always, it feels like every year we're talking to
you about wide receivers. But who are some of the
guys because I feel like round one they've talked so
much about trenches. It feels like they're gonna probably go
offensive or defensive line.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Who do you like in round two? For in general
and for New England? Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:49):
I mean, I think that's where the depth of this
class really is. In that second and third round. You're
talking about guys like Jayden Higgins out of Iowa State.
Jack Betch out of TCU is one that I like
quite a bit. Even into the fourth round, somebody like
Ricky White out of UNLB. He's another guy that I
like quite a bit. So I think where the depth
of this year's class is more so in the second
through the fourth round. We don't really have those marquee
(14:11):
names of those blue chip guys like we have seen
eight years past at the top of the draft, which
I think is going to work in the favor of
the Patriots because now, let's say they take care of
the offensive line needs in free agency. Now you can
entertain potentially a defensive piece at the top of the draft,
and then you could attack receiver in the second or
third round.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So you mentioned there Higgins, So I really liked it
the Senior Bowl. I think he can play on the outside.
But the other guy wanted to ask you about I
was Luther Burden, who I feel like some of the
mock drafts out there you see recently have him out
of the first round. I feel like he's a top
twenty talent, but I know there's some other things going
on from his season last year.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
What are you hearing about Luther Burden stock right now?
Speaker 6 (14:48):
Yeah, so he's probably gonna go in that twenty five
to thirty five range. Yeah, I had to guess where
he would go right now, And it's just the question
marks about what happened last year and then what version
of him getting. If I'm getting the twenty twenty three version,
I'm with you. I think he's the top twenty player
all day. But the player we saw last year, he
just was not the same for whatever reason. And I
know they had some inconsistent play at quarterback. But the explosiveness,
(15:13):
the creativity with him, and then just the route running
nuance with him, that's the big question marks out there
about Luther Burden there.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, do you think any of that?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Some of the antics on the sideline is the best
way I can kind of put it about. Like you
see that a lot though with receivers and like guys
that are you know, got that little diva alpha in them,
and it's like they just want the ball right, And
I feel like we make a big deal out of that.
Sometimes you know happens that obviously Odell used to do
it all the time. DK Metcalf can get pretty fiery.
Does that weigh on you at all when it comes
(15:44):
to creating these prospects to that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Not really.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
If anything, I take it as a positive because it
shows that they care and they want the ball. You
want guys that want the ball want to be in
that moment. As long as it's not over the top,
like you know, them throwing stuff or slamming their helmet
or anything like that. As long as the anti aren't
over the top, I'm completely fine with it, just because
it shows that they want the ball, which is what
you wanted the receiver.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah. Absolutely, And let's go back to tackle.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Anybody on day two, day early day three that you
feel like might have starter potential if they do have
to pass on it at the top.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
So there's three guys for me that I think eventually
have starter potential, And the first one I'll say is
Jonas Savona. Yeah, I think thought guard slash tackle out
of Arizona. He's primarily played right tackle during his career,
but he does have some reps for some games I
should say at guard. I think he's a guard on
the next level I like to take better than I thought.
He looked more comfortable there at the Senior Bowl too.
(16:37):
Another is Mry Jones, the offensive tackle slash guard out
of LSU who's played three games at right guard, and
that's where I think his home was going to be
on the next level, just because he has some balance
issues when he's out on the island.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So yeah, he's one.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
And then the last one who's getting quite a bit
of buzz now that I think could go around two
is Charles Grant out of William and Mary. The Big
He's a bit of a project, but the athleticism that
he played with, I don't think we have a tackle
that's as athletic as him. Yeah, he does need to
gain some weight, but you talk about somebody that has
a really nice foundation to build upon. I just think
(17:10):
he fits perfectly with the Patriots timeline, especially just because
they have some room to grow, they can afford to
take a project like a Charles Grant potentially put him
on either side right or left tackle.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm glad you mentioned Emory Jones because when I look
at those guys on day two, potentially early day three,
I love upside right, and like, even though he had
a little bit of a down year last year, it
felt like at times maybe there's some questions about him
playing tackle or not at the next level. The tape
two years ago is really really good, and there were
times where I felt like it was good still last year.
(17:42):
And if I'm gonna take a chance on one of
those guys, it's like LSU tackle high recrew like that.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I mean, it's hard to pass up on somebody like that.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
Well, one thing I will say about Emory and just
watching him at the Senior Bowl, is that he wants
to dominate whoever is in front of him. Yeah, I
think that the root of his issue is just control.
And I've always said that I would always love to
coach or have an offensive lineman on my roster that
I have to tone down their physicality as opposed to
one that you're trying to coach physicality into them. So
(18:12):
with Emery, I just think it's a matter of control
and I think his balance will get better over time
when you do slide him inside. But just the physicality
that he plays with, He's a guy I would love.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
To have on my roster.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Okay, Tim, more for you everybody in this draft has
a running back and a tight end they like great
Like you, you can pick from that group who's your
running back and who's your tight end.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
So I'll give you two for running backs, and the
first one is.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Devin neil I.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
So I called their game when they went against Illinois
this year, which is one of his better games of
the year. He's gonna come in at about five eleven,
two hundred and twenty pounds. Has that rocked up beauty.
Reminded me a lot of Kareem Hunt he was coming
out of Toledo. Just the contact balance division, the receiving
upside that he has, I think he's gonna be great.
And then one of my later round sleepers that I
like quite a bit is Brishard Smith out of SMU,
(19:00):
who actually originally was a receiver at Miami prior to
this year, transitions over to SMU and transition to running
back in the same time. So he reminds me a
lot of Tyrone Tracy, and we saw what he was
able to do last year with the New York Giants.
And then a tight end that I absolutely love is
Elijah Arroyo out of Miami was finally able to stay
healthy this year, only twenty one years old, a bit
(19:21):
of that f tight end that you really want to
flex out predominantly. You don't want him taking a whole
bunch of inline snaps. That's just not where his neighborhood
is going to be. But you talk about somebody that
has tremendous upside of the position. I'm a bigger Royo fan.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I like those two. Those are two big Senior Bowl guys. Okay,
very last one for you, then we're gonna let you go.
Travis Hunter, wide receiver, cornerback. Both though he's rare.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
I mean I've said it every single everywhere I've been,
he's my top player in the draft. And he reminds
me so much of Champ Bailey. He's coming out of
Georgia in the late nineties. Champ actually averaged over one
hundred snaps when he was coming out of the draft
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
He's wearing a gold jacket now.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
But I would play him at corner predominantly, and then
I will sprinkle in about twenty to twenty five plays
a game with him as a wide receiver, just because
I think he's so special.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, it does. It feels difficult to do it the
other way around. And I think that's Brown.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Troy Brown is really the only player that I can
think of that's been like that.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Well he's Jordan Reid from ESPN.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Give him a follow if you don't already, And Jordan,
thanks for your time, appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
All right, that's gonna do it for us here today
on Thursday. We're here for one more day and it's
kind of a big day.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
We got you know, quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers. I mean,
come on, let's let's go. If you're petering out at
the end of the week, this is just the position
groups that you need to get you back into it.
So plenty to digest tomorrow, especially with the wide receivers
and the running backs, which we've heard all week really deep,
really talented class.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
So we'll see if the Patriots could tap that position
group as well. So stick with us. We'll be back
tomorrow with a full recap.
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to an NFL draft hosted by the writers of
Patriots dot com.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
From now until you here the New England Patriots.
Speaker 4 (00:12):
Wide, the countdown is on.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to the Patriots Draft Countdown, presented by bud Light.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Welcome everybody.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
We're coming to you from the NFL scouting combine here
in Indianapolis at is Thursday.
Speaker 4 (00:24):
We just heard from the cornerbacks, the tight ends, the safeties.
Speaker 5 (00:28):
This is Patriots Draft Countdown presented by bud Light, bud Light,
easy to Drink, Easy to enjoy, bud Light, the official
beer sponsor of the New England Patriots, and Evan. We
are just plowing through the days here. It's starting to
get a little bit like groundhog Day. But certainly the
highlight today Travis Hunter, a player that the Patriots could
possibly be in the mix for at the top of
the draft. Would you think of him at the podium?
I know we had to like weasel in there and
(00:49):
try to It was a huge crowd to barely hear
this I have of all the time. You know, Look,
the quarterbacks are always a big draw.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm sure when Shador Sanders talks tomorrow, they'll be a
giant scrum and front of his podium as well. But
in my time coming to the Combine, that was one
of the biggest media scrumbs I've ever seen. I mean,
we're talking about you had to put that man in
an auditorium and you have all the seats or something
like that, because this wasn't big at the Convention Center,
was not big enough.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
You got guys who love offense, you got guys who
love defense. Everybody's here to watch this. This one exceptional player.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
It was incredible. It was incredible to watch.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And look, I understand that I'm trumpeting this.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
This is a meat and potatoes offseason for the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
As much as I would love to sit here and
say go get the shiny new toy, go get the
Heisman winning two way superstar player like Travis Hunter, I
think we all feel the same way. Trenches trenches trenches. Now,
with that being said, I was really impressed. I mean,
when you.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Talk about swagger, you talk about a guy that.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Can just come in and have that confidence in that bravado.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That instant star type of impact.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
He just oozes with confidence, and I thought that was
just very, very apparent.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
We spoke with.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Elliott Wolf yesterday.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
He told us that they had, you know, they'd written
up both scouting reports on him as a wide receiver
as well as a cornerback. And it seems like a
lot of teams really view him. Some view him as
a wide receiver, some view as a cornerback. Still there's
no real consensus at this point. It seems like he
still would like to play both sides, but he's open
to whatever teams might, you know, where they might see
him fitting in. But it's just there's so much to
(02:24):
talk about with him because there's so much potential on
both sides of the ball. Yeah, I think the scuttle butt,
as we were just talking about the origin of the
scuttle butt.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
The scuttle butt to me, though, which is.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
That's interesting, is a lot more teams, some of them publicly,
like the Cleveland Browns and Andrew Berry, are viewing him
as a wide receiver. And I didn't think that was
going to be the popular take here. And I'm not
saying it's every team or even consensus, but I would
say it's a lot more than what I expected just
talking to people around here this week that view Travis
(02:55):
Hunter as predominantly a wide receiver, and I think the
main reason is that you look at his deduction at
that position last year at Colorado, like, how do you
not feed the guy that had sixteen touchdowns the ball?
Like it's impossible in the league where points are always
the number one thing on everybody's mind to say, no, actually,
we're going to play that guy just at cornerback when
(03:16):
we know that we have a number one receiver also
standing there on the sideline while the offense is on
the field. So he said that he wants to play
both ways. Didn't like you said, he kind of left
it up to the organization that drafts him to really
hatch that plan of how to make it happen. But
I think a lot more people are saying Travis Hunter
wide receiver than I expected.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
So you mentioned scuttle bunts the word of the day.
That's what happens here in Indianapolis. A lot of late nights,
people talking agents GMS all that that's when talk comes,
but also at Starbucks, fights at Starbucks apparently, but also
it's when medical testing happens and some things start to
come out. Now, the two big names for the Patriots
that we've been talking about already. It feels like forever
Travis Hunter, and of course Abdul Carter, who we heard
(03:57):
from earlier in the week. Some news comes out Abdul
Carter's got a bit of a stress factor in his foot.
It might take some time for him.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Now.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Teams have to kind of weigh this, and I think
there's probably a lot of Patriots fans.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Out there being like, can I just push him out
of the top three?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Maybe, But I'm gonna say this right now, like, given that,
given what we've been hearing a little bit about some
of the quarterbacks, it doesn't seem out of the realm
that the Patriots might have a chance at Carter or
Hunter still might be a long shot, but not totally
out of the question.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Just starting with Abdul Carter, I think there is some
concern about this being one of those lingering injuries, not
to say that it's career threatening by any means, but
just one of those things that could maybe linger into
his rookie season or into his rookie training camp. So
how do you best go about managing that is going
to be very interesting, and with all these things they
(04:47):
will have thirty visits where their team doctors will get
their hands on each player that they bring in.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Again.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So now at the top of the draft, I'm sure
Abdul Carter was going to go to Tennessee and was
going to go to Cleveland in New York, in New
England anyways, but now it's definitely even bigger to get
those medical rechecks in a couple of months to see
where he's at physically with his foot injury. Do I
think that it knocks him out of the top three?
Probably not. I don't think it sounds like it's anything
(05:16):
long term that anybody's worried about, but it is another thing,
and just in general, looking at this class right now,
there's a lot of guys that are either hurt opting
out of workouts here in Indianapolis more than I can remember.
I have no doubta to back it up, but just
off a feeling, yeah, like I feel like that's happened
a lot more. We just found out this morning that
Kenneth Grant, the really talented nose tackle from Michigan, but
(05:39):
I thought was going to be a huge tester here
at the combine, he's not going to work out because
of an injury.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
We just saw Colston.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Lovelin, the other really talented player from Michigan tight end,
had his shoulder in a sling like he's got a
ac reconstructive surgery. So there's a lot of these guys
at the top of the draft that are either not
working out by choice or are Yeah, and that's a
bummer just for the fans.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah, well you mentioned Colston Lovelin. Let's transition.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
We also heard from the tight ends today, of course,
Tyler Warren from Penn State a toop that list.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
He just seems like a.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
Country tight end, tough meat and potatoes kind of a guy.
You can feel the confidence off of him, which is
kind of a theme that you pick up here at
the combine.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
We mentioned it with the Georgia guys yesterday.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
There are certain guys that just have that presence where
you're like, this guy feels like he's.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Already in the league.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Harold Fan and Junior another guy I think you saw
him down at the Senior Bowl who's got a little
bit of intrigue to him. Elliott told us yesterday that
this is a strong tight end class, and yeah, you know,
Patriots Austin Hooper up for free agency. He resigned Hunter Henry.
He's going to be around, but could be a need,
could be a stinky need and maybe a place that
the Patriots could add a weapon if they're not enamored
(06:47):
with this wide receiver class.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, it's an interesting conversation of if you're not enamored
by the wide receivers and you get to the draft
and you have an opportunity, you know, maybe you hit
the trenches in the free agency and you feel good
about where you are there, do you then go ahead
and draft to Tyler Warren or Colson Loveland at the
top of the draft. But then there's also the argument,
and this is sort of the debates we always get into, Well.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
There's also depth to this tight end class.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So do you have to draft one at four overall
or after a trade down or something like that in
the first round, or can you wait for a Harold Fannin,
a Mason Taylor and Elijah Royo, Tyler Ferguson, you know,
those types of players that are gonna be a little
bit further down the board the board.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think that there's some.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Intriguing talent there on Day two of this draft fan
and is more of that physical specimen. I've compared him
to like an Isaiah likelier John Smith in the past.
Mason Taylor is kind of that prototypical why tight end
that can do a little bit of everything. I definitely
look at those two guys as potential targets for the Patriots.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
It'd be great to.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Get into developmental guys, somebody who really moves the needle
a little bit as a weapon. And you wonder with
Lovelan getting that reconstruction. I know you're a big fan
of his top half of the first round. Maybe that
pushes him down a little bit. So as much as they're.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Like thirty eight, you know, it's about thirty eight, Like
I just you can't take the chance on the shoulder,
got a way.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
I mean, you're gonna start getting testing numbers too as well.
And Levan and I are gonna head over who gets
access this year to watch some of the workouts. Yeah,
but you get the measurements you get. Obviously we've mentioned
the injury issues that pop up that may, you know,
push guys down the board, but you also get athletic
freaks or are gonna run like crazy times that you're
like a man that size should not run that fast,
So those guys are gonna rise up a little bit.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
And I think that's a little bit of what the
fun is at the combine that you have. All of
a sudden your board gets a little bit readjusted and.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
Somebody you know, jumps out of the roof, jumps out
of the roof of the gym, and he rises up
the board and other guy's got a little bit of
an inch injury as you he goes back down. So
testing starting today, anything you're looking we're starting again. They're
a day behind with the workouts. So yesterday we heard
from the defensive line and the linebackers they'll be first
up testing and then today's guys will test tomorrow, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
So as we head over there and we get going
with the.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Testing, I know you always do a right up in
an analysis of these workouts that the people love. Anything specific
you're looking for off the top of your mind.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, like I said, I'm bumming that Grant's not going
to work out because he was one of the guys
that I think was gonna just at his size at
you know, three thirty three forty was going to kind
of put on a show.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
But I'll give you two at the top of the draft.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Shamar Stewart from Texas A and m I think is
going to have an absolutely massive workout. You know, he's
a freak athlete, a big, long guy. There's some Trayvon
Walker comparisons there where he could have an outstanding workout
here this week and then that could project him into
the top ten of the draft just off of raw measurables.
Another similar player, similar position, Mikel Williams from Georgia. I'm
(09:38):
really looking to see if he has a similar workout.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
His production in college isn't really there.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Some of that's role in the defense, some of that
is a little bit of rawness with you know, his
technique and his pass rush plan and all that kind
of stuff. But if those two guys really dazzle here
today at the workouts, then they could really skyrocket up
the board.
Speaker 5 (09:57):
All right, Well, we're gonna throw it to an interview
right now. Levin had an op oportunity to sit down
with Jordan Reed. I think was the third year we've
we've had the rising start. ESPN Draft guru knows a ton.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I let Evan.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
I just let Evan go because I knew like you
guys are just going to nerd out on this stuff.
So great interview here with Jordan Reed. Check it out now.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
We're Jordan Now by Jordan Reid from ESPN. Jordan Underscore
read on Twitter. Are e I d though right? Not
like the tight end though, which I know you get
a lot. So we're gonna talk some draft here with
Jordan does a great job over at ESPN covering the
draft in college football, and I just wanted to get
right into it. You put out a tweet last week
(10:34):
that I really thought hit the nail on the head
about this draft. At the talent you know from four
to twelve in this draft this year is kind of
the same. And I feel like this is a struggle
right now for Patriots fans as we debate, you know,
Will Campbell, Mason Graham, Ted McMillan, whatever is that they
you can make arguments for all these guys, and this
does feel like a kind of a tough spot in
(10:56):
a lot of ways for the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 6 (10:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
It does.
Speaker 6 (10:59):
And there's only three blue chip guys in this year's
draft class to me, and that's Travis Hunter. I'll do
a Carter and Mason Graham after that, I think things
get really sketchy as far as where you could go
in this year's draft class. But the one thing or
piece of advice if I was in the draft room
with the Patriots this year, is that I don't think
they should pigeonhole themselves into drafting, particularly one position. Leave
(11:22):
your draft board open, and we'll see what they do
in free agency. They have a boatload of money, so
the best thing for them is attack free agency with
an aggressive plan to address obviously wide receiver an offensive line,
which are the two biggest areas of need. So now
you go into the draft, especially at the number four
overall pick, to where now you can leave yourself open
(11:44):
to taking any position.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
So one thing that perked out for me just now,
he said, Mason Graham, you think he's a blue chip
player in this draft? I feel like he's maybe one
of the more volatile prospects for Patriots fans. What makes
you think that he's a blue chip guy. It's just
the combination of everything that he does at the position.
And if you go back and look at every big
time game that Michigan had throughout his career, he was
absolutely sensational and all of him, and you know he's
(12:08):
not gonna look as good physically as his counterparts in
this year's draft class, but if you turn on the tape,
he's the most disruptive of all those guys. I think
he's firm as a run defender. He can hold at
the point of attack, he can stack and shade if
you need him to a the point of attack as
a run defender. But also he got so much better
as a pass rusher throughout his career. And you have
to remember, this guy hasn't been playing defensive line for
very long. When he got to Michigan, he was just
(12:30):
really starting his career as a defensive lineman. So I
just think the upside that he has, and then just
how good he can be two to three years from now.
He's that piece that you can build around at the
center of your defense, last one at the top. Then
I want to pick your brain about some of the
depth guys in this class. It does feel like an
ideal scenario might be a trade down for the Patriots.
But one thing I've been thinking a lot about is
(12:51):
in order to trade down, somebody's got to want to
trade up, right exactly, So do you feel like that
fourth pick could have value in a trade down this year, Like,
do you see that scenario being plausible?
Speaker 6 (13:01):
I think if one of the quarterbacks are there, I
think it's a possibility. Now I think both are gonna
somehow end up going inside of the top three, unfortunately
for the Patriots. But let's say cam Ward or Showld
or Sanders slips to that fourth spot. Now you're talking
about the Raiders potentially trading up. You're probably not gonna
give a draft pick to the Jets or quarterbacks to
the Jets. Yeah, hypothetically speaking, let's say the Raiders want
(13:23):
to come up and acquire the quarterback of the future.
I definitely could see a scenario like that playing out
if one of those quarterbacks slipped.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about wide receivers.
That's the other big topic for the Pats right now.
As always, it feels like every year we're talking to
you about wide receivers. But who are some of the
guys because I feel like round one they've talked so
much about trenches. It feels like they're gonna probably go
offensive or defensive line.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Who do you like in round two? For in general
and for New England? Yeah.
Speaker 6 (13:49):
I mean, I think that's where the depth of this
class really is. In that second and third round. You're
talking about guys like Jayden Higgins out of Iowa State.
Jack Betch out of TCU is one that I like
quite a bit. Even into the fourth round, somebody like
Ricky White out of UNLB. He's another guy that I
like quite a bit. So I think where the depth
of this year's class is more so in the second
through the fourth round. We don't really have those marquee
(14:11):
names of those blue chip guys like we have seen
eight years past at the top of the draft, which
I think is going to work in the favor of
the Patriots because now, let's say they take care of
the offensive line needs in free agency. Now you can
entertain potentially a defensive piece at the top of the draft,
and then you could attack receiver in the second or
third round.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So you mentioned there Higgins, So I really liked it
the Senior Bowl. I think he can play on the outside.
But the other guy wanted to ask you about I
was Luther Burden, who I feel like some of the
mock drafts out there you see recently have him out
of the first round. I feel like he's a top
twenty talent, but I know there's some other things going
on from his season last year.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
What are you hearing about Luther Burden stock right now?
Speaker 6 (14:48):
Yeah, so he's probably gonna go in that twenty five
to thirty five range. Yeah, I had to guess where
he would go right now, And it's just the question
marks about what happened last year and then what version
of him getting. If I'm getting the twenty twenty three version,
I'm with you. I think he's the top twenty player
all day. But the player we saw last year, he
just was not the same for whatever reason. And I
know they had some inconsistent play at quarterback. But the explosiveness,
(15:13):
the creativity with him, and then just the route running
nuance with him, that's the big question marks out there
about Luther Burden there.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, do you think any of that?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Some of the antics on the sideline is the best
way I can kind of put it about. Like you
see that a lot though with receivers and like guys
that are you know, got that little diva alpha in them,
and it's like they just want the ball right, And
I feel like we make a big deal out of that.
Sometimes you know happens that obviously Odell used to do
it all the time. DK Metcalf can get pretty fiery.
Does that weigh on you at all when it comes
(15:44):
to creating these prospects to that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Not really.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
If anything, I take it as a positive because it
shows that they care and they want the ball. You
want guys that want the ball want to be in
that moment. As long as it's not over the top,
like you know, them throwing stuff or slamming their helmet
or anything like that. As long as the anti aren't
over the top, I'm completely fine with it, just because
it shows that they want the ball, which is what
you wanted the receiver.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah. Absolutely, And let's go back to tackle.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Anybody on day two, day early day three that you
feel like might have starter potential if they do have
to pass on it at the top.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
So there's three guys for me that I think eventually
have starter potential, And the first one I'll say is
Jonas Savona. Yeah, I think thought guard slash tackle out
of Arizona. He's primarily played right tackle during his career,
but he does have some reps for some games I
should say at guard. I think he's a guard on
the next level I like to take better than I thought.
He looked more comfortable there at the Senior Bowl too.
(16:37):
Another is Mry Jones, the offensive tackle slash guard out
of LSU who's played three games at right guard, and
that's where I think his home was going to be
on the next level, just because he has some balance
issues when he's out on the island.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So yeah, he's one.
Speaker 6 (16:50):
And then the last one who's getting quite a bit
of buzz now that I think could go around two
is Charles Grant out of William and Mary. The Big
He's a bit of a project, but the athleticism that
he played with, I don't think we have a tackle
that's as athletic as him. Yeah, he does need to
gain some weight, but you talk about somebody that has
a really nice foundation to build upon. I just think
(17:10):
he fits perfectly with the Patriots timeline, especially just because
they have some room to grow, they can afford to
take a project like a Charles Grant potentially put him
on either side right or left tackle.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I'm glad you mentioned Emory Jones because when I look
at those guys on day two, potentially early day three,
I love upside right, and like, even though he had
a little bit of a down year last year, it
felt like at times maybe there's some questions about him
playing tackle or not at the next level. The tape
two years ago is really really good, and there were
times where I felt like it was good still last year.
(17:42):
And if I'm gonna take a chance on one of
those guys, it's like LSU tackle high recrew like that.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I mean, it's hard to pass up on somebody like that.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
Well, one thing I will say about Emory and just
watching him at the Senior Bowl, is that he wants
to dominate whoever is in front of him. Yeah, I
think that the root of his issue is just control.
And I've always said that I would always love to
coach or have an offensive lineman on my roster that
I have to tone down their physicality as opposed to
one that you're trying to coach physicality into them. So
(18:12):
with Emery, I just think it's a matter of control
and I think his balance will get better over time
when you do slide him inside. But just the physicality
that he plays with, He's a guy I would love.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
To have on my roster.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Okay, Tim, more for you everybody in this draft has
a running back and a tight end they like great
Like you, you can pick from that group who's your
running back and who's your tight end.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
So I'll give you two for running backs, and the
first one is.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Devin neil I.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
So I called their game when they went against Illinois
this year, which is one of his better games of
the year. He's gonna come in at about five eleven,
two hundred and twenty pounds. Has that rocked up beauty.
Reminded me a lot of Kareem Hunt he was coming
out of Toledo. Just the contact balance division, the receiving
upside that he has, I think he's gonna be great.
And then one of my later round sleepers that I
like quite a bit is Brishard Smith out of SMU,
(19:00):
who actually originally was a receiver at Miami prior to
this year, transitions over to SMU and transition to running
back in the same time. So he reminds me a
lot of Tyrone Tracy, and we saw what he was
able to do last year with the New York Giants.
And then a tight end that I absolutely love is
Elijah Arroyo out of Miami was finally able to stay
healthy this year, only twenty one years old, a bit
(19:21):
of that f tight end that you really want to
flex out predominantly. You don't want him taking a whole
bunch of inline snaps. That's just not where his neighborhood
is going to be. But you talk about somebody that
has tremendous upside of the position. I'm a bigger Royo fan.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I like those two. Those are two big Senior Bowl guys. Okay,
very last one for you, then we're gonna let you go.
Travis Hunter, wide receiver, cornerback. Both though he's rare.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
I mean I've said it every single everywhere I've been,
he's my top player in the draft. And he reminds
me so much of Champ Bailey. He's coming out of
Georgia in the late nineties. Champ actually averaged over one
hundred snaps when he was coming out of the draft
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
He's wearing a gold jacket now.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
But I would play him at corner predominantly, and then
I will sprinkle in about twenty to twenty five plays
a game with him as a wide receiver, just because
I think he's so special.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yeah, it does. It feels difficult to do it the
other way around. And I think that's Brown.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Troy Brown is really the only player that I can
think of that's been like that.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Well he's Jordan Reid from ESPN.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Give him a follow if you don't already, And Jordan,
thanks for your time, appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
All right, that's gonna do it for us here today
on Thursday. We're here for one more day and it's
kind of a big day.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
We got you know, quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers. I mean,
come on, let's let's go. If you're petering out at
the end of the week, this is just the position
groups that you need to get you back into it.
So plenty to digest tomorrow, especially with the wide receivers
and the running backs, which we've heard all week really deep,
really talented class.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
So we'll see if the Patriots could tap that position
group as well. So stick with us. We'll be back
tomorrow with a full recap.
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com