Doing the Work and "No." is a Complete Sentence

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In this episode, Gina and Tom join forces with Melenese Sivells and past guest Shanita Hubbard to talk about racism in higher education. This roundtable conversation is the second installment in our pandemic pedagogy series. Topics covered in this episode are white supremacy, the work that needs to be done, and how this is all complicated further by our virtual learning environment. In our segment on self care, learn about the power of wine and that No is a complete sentence. 

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Episode Transcript

Gina Turner (00:00):
1234 Pedagogy a go go.. Pedagogy Go go go....
Hello, and welcome toPedagogy-a-go-go, a podcast
about college faculty sharingwhat happens in their classrooms
and why. This is season three,Episode Two: "Doing the Work and

(00:23):
NO is a Complete Sentence", andwe are your hosts Gina Turner
and Tom O'Connor.

Tom O'Connor (00:34):
All right, well, welcome to Pedagogy-a-go-go to
the second part in what isshaping up to be a three part
series this semester, and Isuppose could go further,
depending on things. The waywe're doing our shows up for
this special is a roundtablestyle. So we're lucky to have in
addition to my wonderful cohost, Professor Gina Turner.

(00:58):
We're going to be joined todayby Professor Melanese Sevells,
she's a professor of earlychildhood education here at
Northampton Community College.
Mel, Melanese - I know you go byMel. Can you say a word or two
about yourself just as a meansof introduction?

Mel Sivells (01:17):
Um, yes, I have been in education for at least
25 years and I'm just trainingin the future!

Tom O'Connor (01:28):
Welcome very much to the podcast and we have a
very special returning guestfrom our I believe it was our
"Table Shakers" episode. It wasour second episode, we're
welcoming back to the showprofessor Shanita Hubbard.
Shanita is an adjunct professorof criminal justice and
sociology here. And I know she'scontributed to many publications

(01:49):
as a writer on a lot of socialand racial justice issues, which
happens to be our theme of theday. So what we're doing for
these podcasts is each one we'relooking at a topic that right
now is affecting all of ourlives. And we're drilling down
into that topic about how it'sspecifically affecting us, as
educators in our classrooms, bethey possibly on ground in this

(02:11):
COVID times, and very likelyremote. So welcome to this
podcast, I anticipate it's goingto be a great conversation.

Gina Turner (02:20):
Yeah, and I love what you said, Mel, you know,
that "the children are ourfuture" as the song goes, right,
as George Benson and WhitneyHouston said,

Mel Sivells (02:29):
Absolutely. Rest in peace, Whitney.

Gina Turner (02:32):
I know, I know, we'll have to ask Jeff to put in
a little clip of - my personalfavorite because I was a little
girl when the George Bensonversion came out. So that's
always been my personal favoriteversion of the song. But our
first question really, you know,again, as Tom mentioned, we were
sort of trying to tackle, youknow, the events of the day in

(02:56):
terms of how they affect us inthe classroom. So how are you
tackling issues of social andracial justice in the classroom?
I'll go ahead and start with Melon this question.

Mel Sivells (03:08):
Because I'm in a teacher preparation program,
racial injustice has always beenpart of the educational system.
It's one of those, you know,systemic racism type of things
in it goes kind of unsaid. Itreally is. It's, it's very...

Gina Turner (03:33):
it's kind of cooked into the system in a way...

Mel Sivells (03:35):
it's cooked into the system, but it's also in the
way that we're raised. So ourstudents don't understand the
implicit and explicit biasesthat they already bring to the
classroom. And sometimes I'm attheir very first encounter with
a teacher who has been AfricanAmerican, or you know, anyone of

(03:57):
color. So it's something that,you know, I intentionally kind
of embed in but not knock overthe head with, I make sure that
our students understand equityand inclusion, especially when
it comes down to young children.
Because we have all differentabilities. So that's one part of
it is the inclusion piece. Andnot just the disabilities, but

(04:20):
also how we see each other inall of those stereotypes that
we're bringing in. So we take alot of time in those first
years, or first two years of ourprogram to help students to
understand who they are and whatthey're bringing into the
classroom.

Gina Turner (04:40):
Yeah, I think that's such a great point, what
you say about their own exposureto an instructor of color. But
then of course, if they'restaying in the Lehigh Valley,
they're going to be teachers inclassrooms where they have
students of color, that meansthey're going to have to learn
how to interact with, for sure.
So it's like you say, it'sreally built into the profession

(05:00):
of what they're doing. So howabout you, Shanita? How have you
been tackling it in theclassroom?

Shanita Hubbard (05:09):
Well, since I teach sociology classes in
political science and criminaljustice, I've said to my
students, I always say this fromthe very beginning, that if you
are about to graduate from NCC,and you are a criminal justice
major, or sociology or politicalscience, and you haven't
discussed racing your classroom,you've been given a huge

(05:29):
disservice. Like, it's justimpossible, and you've been
cheated, right? So I have thesevery candid conversations. But
in order to do that, I'm veryintentional about creating a
safe space, right, all of mystudents need to know that it's
going to be safe, like it'sgoing to be emotionally safe,
like my students of color, it'simportant to know that they're
not going to be attacked, andstudents who have very different

(05:51):
opinions need to know that thisis still a safe atmosphere,
right? I'm gonna have to do thatbalance to know the difference.
Like, it's just really hard. Ihave to be very intentional
about creating that space. And Iunderstand that, and I've
learned how to do that in thephysical classroom. I haven't
learned how to create that safespace yet, in this type of
atmosphere. And I recognize thatright? So I can't, so I had to

(06:15):
adjust the way I teach reallyquickly, because I haven't
created - I don't feel like I'vecreated a safe enough space to
have that really criticaldialogue, like I remember during
a 2016 election, when it wasreally hostile, I will have
Bernie supporters, Trumpsupporters, Hillary supporters
in a political science class,and we would have amazing
dialogue. And there was a safespace. I and I was able to gauge

(06:39):
that, right? I don't have thatspace to be able to have those
conversations, right. So I haveto be honest, like, it doesn't
matter how great a professor Ithink I am, if my students walk
away feeling harmed, then I wasthe one that did them a
disservice. So knowing that Idon't have that space, it does
hinder me because it modifiesthe way I have to talk about it,
right? So I introduce it in thecontext of COVID. Right, because

(07:00):
you can't hide from thispandemic, you can't hide from
this conversation withouttalking about economic
inequality. And then you can'thide from economic inequality
without talking about race. So Ihave to present it in a way
where it's part of thequestions, so then they'll bring
it up themselves, right? So thenthey're challenging themselves
with a new like, wow, I neverthought about this, right. So I

(07:20):
have to slowly feed it to themin a way where they're leading
the conversation. And then I'mintroducing it something to so
much more. Right. I think lastmonth, maybe Monday was such an
excellent dialogue abouteconomic inequality, because we
started talking about like,food, how not having access to
the right food impacts yourbody, right, and now you're not

(07:40):
healthy. And now you're at risk,greater risk of COVID. So I'm so
excited next week to getintroduced to the concept of
environmental racism, right? Butthey got there by themselves,
right? They created that right?
So now it's different. Right? Soto go back to answer your
question, I still it's verycritical to talk about race, but
I have to change the way I doit, and I have to move slower.
And it doesn't necessarily meanit's wrong, it just means that I

(08:02):
have to do a slower anddifferently,

Gina Turner (08:06):
it's so interesting, because for you,
you're saying you have tocontextualize it in order to
make it safe for the students tobe able to almost relate to the
topic and then to be able totalk amongst themselves about
it. Whereas for Mel, it's almost- it's more baked into their
training as future educators.
And it makes me think to forTom, you know, because I believe

(08:27):
you're teaching Sex and Genderthis semester. And I'm
wondering, because of course,another element of this is, you
know, is the misogyny and sexismthat's going on in the culture
too. So how are you layering allof this stuff and tackling it in
the classroom?

Tom O'Connor (08:45):
Well, first, I want to just twin off of what
she needed said, because I spokeabout that in our previous
episode actually about having tochange the game in terms of the
safe spaces, we're creating anonline environment. And so I you
know, I'd use the example of oftalking about sensitive topics
and someone's parents in theback of the room, you see them
and you know, other students areseeing that as well. And

(09:07):
Shanita, I just I applaud theway that you turn it around, you
know, if you will, if you'reapproaching it differently, and
I found myself in in the sameposition. And it's funny, so I
have two different classes. Ihave the women in gender studies
class where of course, issues ofI mean, in terms of how are you
tackling issues of social andracial justice? That is the

(09:28):
course right I mean, like it isthe curriculum at the outset.
What is interesting is actuallyI've changed the assignments in
that course in terms of givingthe students a bit more freedom.
Whereas the courses... so I'mgoing to just - we talk about
plagiarism and stealing ideas -matter of fact, I found one of

(09:49):
one of my classes today, but um,I totally stole something from
Joy Reed's new show the readouton msnbc. I'm not sure she's
still doing this, but um, Onething I did is I created bi
weekly, she cheated a segment onthe craziest thing I've seen all
week. And she would and so like,and it's really broad. And so I

(10:10):
said, here's what I want youguys to do (we're using Flipgrid
to do it) I want you to go andabsorb the news around you on
your social media, you know, onyour preferred network that you
watch, and identify somethingthat you feel is really
important, and you need to talkabout and bring it back. And as
a hybrid class, right, wherethere's a lot of asynchronous
work, it's this wonderful way tocontinue conversations and then

(10:33):
draw them back into theclassroom. Because - and I will
tell you that in my women ingender studies class, we're
using feminism to talk aboutissues of race, of police
brutality, because that's whatthey want to talk about, you
know, like, they may not knowwho Clarence Thomas is. But at
the same time, they certainlyknow who Brianna Taylor is. They

(10:56):
want to talk about it. And it'salso, so my other class is a
literature based class. And it'sinteresting, Mel to come back to
something you were talkingabout, about being an early
educator, as an African Americanwoman of color. It comes out
that's about representation,right? It's about children,
seeing people in a role as aleader, as a mentor, as a

(11:19):
teacher. And in my literatureclass, it's all about
representation. It's about firstpicking diverse voices. But then
it's also about picking textsthat deal with it. So you know,
I'm so cruel to my class,because the day of the election
we're doing Flannery O'Connor'sA Good Man is Hard To Find,
which is a brutal story, forthose of you who've read it, you

(11:40):
know, but exempting kind of thebrutal ending of the story, the
first half of that story is allabout racism in the Old South,
and how it is passed downgenerationally. And, even in
literature class, you know, ourdiscussion is, you know, the,
the main point I give to them isthat, to read is to make us more
human. We read to empathically,identify with others, and others

(12:05):
(lower "O", not you know, aSimone de Beauvoir, "capital O
other"), we recognize that as aproblem, but it's about reading
and learning through differenceand exposure, you know, it's the
best kind of diversity. Sothat's, that's a little bit how
I've been trying to tackle it inmy two classes. The big one is
really just openness ofassignments and allowing them to
draw the discussion to areas ofpersonal importance, and then

(12:27):
they can apply Simone deBeauvoir talking about the
other, you know, when you've gotTrump talking about "looters"
and "rioters" as opposed to, asopposed to civil and rightful
protesters protesting somethingvery important, and how they are
being othered. So it's great tobe able to draw that into a
classroom experience.

Mel Sivells (12:45):
Definitely.

Tom O'Connor (12:46):
How about you, Gina?

Gina Turner (12:48):
Oh, well, you know, I'm, hearing what both Shanita
and Tom were saying about thestudents bringing their own
interest into the classroom. Andthat's also something I'm trying
to tap into. So I'm teachingresearch methods this semester,
and cognitive psychology. Andfor both of them, I sent them

(13:09):
out to our college's PeaceConference, which was a three
day event, where they brought ina number of people from the
community to talk aboutdifferent social justice
organizations. And the studentswho went to those events. And I
said, I'll give you 10 points ifyou go and then send me an email
about it. And the students whowent wrote me these impassioned

(13:29):
emails, and I'll use one inparticular, one young woman
emailed me and she said, "I wentto a session on immigration. And
it was so amazing to hearsomeone talk sympathetically
about undocumented immigrants."And then she said that her
father was an undocumentedimmigrant who had been deported
when she was in high school,after living in the country for
30 years. And I, you know, afterI express my outrage back to her

(13:53):
about that, I said, this is yourresearch project. And so she's
turning it into a project onattitudes about undocumented
immigrants and knowledge aboutthe difficulty of becoming a
citizen in the United States. Sothey're turning their interests
into the work in the class,which I think is hopefully going

(14:15):
to keep them engaged andhopefully also showing them the
practical applications of thecontent in the class as well.
Because I was thinking for Mel,you know, as you're teaching
them about beingrepresentational in the
classroom, I'm wondering ifyou're using different examples
maybe or are you findingdifferent examples of things
that you are using for them inthe class?

Mel Sivells (14:38):
Well, it varies from semester to semester. One
of my colleagues, AmandaSeguinot, knows she teaches one
of our courses called Child,Family and Community, and you
really have to understand thesocio economic statuses of the

(14:59):
families that we serve asteachers. So she had put in a
great assignment of Black LivesMatter. So when she brought that
in, and she wanted our studentsto come and understand the
perspective of people whoreally, truly believe in Black
Lives Matter. Now, for some ofour students, this is the first

(15:21):
time they even had to thinkabout, you know, Black Lives
Matter, you know, they see it,but they don't, it doesn't
affect them. So it's not, itdoesn't mean much to them until
they get to that assignment.
Now, I know you're asking what Ido, but, I think that that was a
really great example of it. I amextremely intentional in how I

(15:44):
bring race into our classroom,because I don't want to be the
teacher that's going to beatthem over the head. I shouldn't
be the only one who is wavingthe flag for diversity, just
because I am the AfricanAmerican faculty member. So it
is part of all of us. And youknow, when we are doing our

(16:08):
curriculum, and we lead as ateam, Kate, Amanda and I, we're
all bringing different things tothe table, so that we can really
present our information inmeaningful ways. So when I do
teach the profession course, I'mbringing up those historical
moments like Brown versus Boardof Education, or when Ruby

(16:29):
Bridges had to go into akindergarten class, escorted by,
you know, guards. And then Ishow the picture of the angry
white mob that was there. Thatwas in 1964. These people are
still alive, or could possiblybe alive, they're your
grandmothers. So we have toreally put things into

(16:53):
perspective for students so that

they understand that (16:56):
one, it is real. And two, just because it's
not affecting you directly,doesn't mean that it doesn't
affect the profession, or ourlives or community. So we just
make sure that we tie in thathistorical perspective, because

(17:19):
if you don't know your history,you don't know where you're
going to be able to go.

Gina Turner (17:24):
Yeah. And I love what you say about - you should
not be the only flagbearer inthe division, right? That the
only, you know, the AfricanAmerican teacher is the one who
is talking about race, and thatis shared amongst all of your
colleagues.

Shanita Hubbard (17:40):
Can I piggyback on that, before we move again,
I'm like nodding my head like aBaba woman. Because one of my
point of contentions is like Isaid, I teach sociology criminal
justice, juvenile justice. And Iam intentional about introducing
my students, to sociologiststhat they men that I've heard
of, and to believe it or not, Idon't have to go very far to do
that. All I have to do is tellthem about a black woman, and

(18:01):
then they draw a blank faces.
I'm like, how long have you beenin this major? And you don't
know Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw?
Like, what type of seminarcourses have you been taken? And
it's not and it hasn't come up.
So I don't say this to them. Butin my head, I'm thinking my
colleagues have to be moreintentional about who they put
on your syllabus, or who they'reintroducing, you know, the
students to because to Mel'spoint, we shouldn't have to be

(18:21):
the only ones waving the flag,you don't have to necessarily
come to your class and say,"Intersectionality!!" you can
very easily - Why can't she be apart of your - why can't these
black sociologists be a part ofyour syllabus? Right? part of
your job is about programming.
Right? So I was like, Let's allbe more intentional about that.
And I was saying that goingforward, I want to be deliberate

(18:44):
to make sure that I am lookingforward from our trans
community, right? I want to bemore intentional about
introducing your work, not as,"hey, it's trans Month!" Nope,
this is just a wonderful pieceof work. And we're going to
discuss it and then later, bythe way, this is who that person
is, so that you can know tonormalize it. But it can't just
be on like the PoC professors todo this work.

Gina Turner (19:05):
Yeah, that's beautifully said. Right? That,
that it just becomes woven into- this is the curriculum, and
these people belong on thecurriculum along with all of the
other people who haveclassically been on the
curriculum. So my next questionfor you guys, actually, you've
already started talking aboutwhich is thinking of yourself in

(19:26):
the classroom. Right? How areyou personally affected by this
summer of racial and socialjustice upheaval in the
classroom? You know, we'vealready sort of touched on the
fact that we can't be the onlyones talking about these things.
So maybe I will come back toShanita just to talk about like,
how do you feel different in theclassroom because of all of

Shanita Hubbard (19:48):
Um, that is a really good question. One of the
this?
things that I always do evenwhen I first started teaching, I
teach from the place of my ownacademic hurts, like I've shared
the story with you guys beforethat all through my academic
career, it wasn't until I wentto an HBCU did one of my
professors Tell me "Wow, you'rea good writer", I used to always

(20:09):
get accused of plagiarism, ofcheating. And I didn't recognize
it for what it was when I wasmuch younger. Right. So um, when
I got to graduate school, Iremember being -there was only
two black people in my entireprogram. And it's one particular
class, it was just me, I wasonly black person, and we're
talking about race. And studentswere saying some, and it was a
mixed class, I was working on mymaster's, they were working on a
PhD, and a PhD students weresaying some really awful racist

(20:32):
crap, the professor, let it fly,in the name of you know, playing
devil's advocate, and like, notrealizing the power dynamic that
was at play in that class. Noone said anything. So it's just
like me and this guy, you know,I've always been Shanita. So
just man, this guy going backand forth for the entire class.
So that experience like that'swhy I'm always cognizant of
power dynamics and creating asafe space, right. So I took

(20:53):
that, I always take that withme, but it's been amplified
lately, like to be sure tocreate an incredibly safe space
for all of my marginalized, allof my students period. But you
know, particularly formarginalized students, and how I
approach it. So I think it'sjust kind of amplified the way I
try to create safe spaces. Butagain, it's harder for me to do

(21:14):
this online. And I can, like,share an experience like, I've
some of my students, I don'teven know if you have mastered
this, I don't even know if thisis okay or not. But some of my
students don't still don't puttheir camera on. Right, I got to
the point where I just said,Listen, y'all gonna have to
figure this out? Because I'm nottalking to a blank screen. So
who's taking one for the team?Orwe're just gonna sit here. and
then it rotates. Right? So butthere's still some students that

(21:36):
will never put the screen on andmy daughter, she's upstairs, not
now but doing remote learning.
And she pointed something out tome. She said, Mom, you keep
calling these students to "putyour screen on"? Did you ever
think there's a reason theydon't want to invite you into
your home? So I was like no,she's worse than Tom. She called
me she gives me evaluations!She's harder than you, Tom! So
she's like "you keep call themabout that you think that makes

(21:57):
them feel good, that makes themwant to come back?". So I was
like, so I stopped being as hardabout turning the camera on. So
there's some students in one ofmy sociology classes, I don't
know the race, right? So I wasteaching, I can't remember what
I was talking about. But thestudent raised their hand. And
he interjected to ask me, How doI feel about black Americans and

(22:17):
code switching? Now? I don'tknow your race. So I don't know
what that means coming from awhite man, right? Because that
means something different comingfrom a white man versus coming
from a black guy, right? So Iwas like, This is hard to
answer, and I can't even have mystudents don't even have the
camera on. So I can't tell ifthey like, what the hell was
cold switching? I can't tell ifthey're lost. So it's just you

(22:39):
know, dynamics like that, whereyou don't even think about like
I have to, it's harder. So Ihave to stop kind of explaining.
But still keeping in mind. Idon't even know who's asking me.
So I was like, Well, how do youfeel? I have to throw it back to
start to figure it out? Like, isthat something you incorporate?
Like, you know, so it's hard.

Gina Turner (22:58):
That's so interesting. Yeah, it's just
another wrinkle that we have todeal with right now, for sure.
Is the technologicalconsiderations.

Mel Sivells (23:06):
Well, with that and let me just go on with how
education is extremely,extraordinarily difficult,
because we're an applicationmajor: I have to see you
actually interacting with thechildren, we have a skill set of
seven skills and strategies thatI am looking for, I'm looking

(23:27):
for students to support theyoung children when they're in
the classroom, how are youstretching them? How are you
engaging and stimulating theirminds and making them interested
in what's being learned? And Ican't really see that from here,
you know, I have to be able tobe out, we have to touch it. And
so my students, you know, at onepoint, we had them write in

(23:51):
lesson plans. And they had torecord a video of them doing the
lesson plan. So they wereteaching their teddy bears, and
no, that's, that's not gonna doit for me. I need to see what
you're doing and how that'sworking with the young children

(24:12):
and whether or not you are ableto do it. And I tell them, to
get back to the whole equity andinclusion and diversity. I tell
them right away. If you thinkthat you're better than the
people that we serve, you are inthe wrong profession, and I need
to have a meeting with you sothat we can find a new place for

(24:36):
you because you're going to comeacross a whole bunch of
diversity, things that you havenever even dreamed of before.
You know, it's parents with youknow, two moms, parents with two
dads, parents who you know, youjust don't know if you have
these things that are stumblingor you're sitting there

(25:00):
wondering whether or not you canfigure this out? You can't,
because the child is the mostimportant piece of it. And
that's just the bottom line. SoI deal with it by modeling,
hopefully that I'm able toconnect with them online. It has
taken a tremendous toll on on mepersonally, as far as I feel

(25:26):
like I'm working 24 hours a day,you know, they email me like
midnight. And you know, eventhough I'm not answering, I'm
just looking at it like theyexpect me to really look at this
email!

Shanita Hubbard (25:39):
So can I say something? You said such a good
point, I think, Mel said that ifyou think you're better than
people you serve it, you're not.
One of the things that makes itdifficult when you're having
this conversation about racialinequality is there - people
think our students feeldisconnected? Well, like, not
necessarily, maybe they're notlooking down on them. I just
like oh, them over there thathas nothing to do with me. They

(25:59):
can't connect to it. Right? Sowhen I said I talked about
COVID, this was a greatequalizer, right? Because even
our white students, they are notrich, right? So when I want to
introduce the idea of howeconomic inequality has been
amplified, let's talk aboutthis. One of the ways I'm doing
it is talking about this remotelearning thing, because a lot of
our students like, don't havegood Wi Fi, like students email

(26:21):
me like I'm kind of sharing WiFi, and I don't have a laptop
and I have a broken laptop.
Right? So that's one of the waysthat I've used to help them to
connect with why theseconversations are important.
Like, look how your academicexperience is being shaped.
Because, to be frank, it'sassumed that you can afford a
quality laptop, it's assumedthat you can afford wonderful Wi

(26:44):
Fi and that you have thesethings, right? Because this is
what this is what economicinequality looks like. So it's
so important, right to make surethat they're not feeling removed
or disconnected from the peoplethat they're serving or working
with, or even the conversationsthat we're having.

Gina Turner (26:58):
Yeah, I'm so glad you guys have brought the
question of technology into theconversation, because that's
another aspect that I wanted totouch on for sure, that we
definitely wanted to ask youabout. I did want to back up
though, briefly, because Iwanted to ask you, Tom, you
know, so Shanita, and Mel and I,we're all African American women

(27:18):
in the classroom, but as a whitemale in the classroom, have you
felt different in the way you'representing with your students or
interacting with your studentsgiven all of the things that are
happening in the news? And even,you know, is is technology
hampering or, or even helping insome way? Kind of putting the

(27:42):
questions together?

Tom O'Connor (27:43):
Yeah, that's a good one and always Gina's it's
not even of the moment. It's,you know, doing my doctoral work
at Lehigh University as astraight white man studying
queer theory just to begin with,which is, you know, which
investigates everything fromgender and sex issues relating
to gender and sexuality to ofcourse, race and class. I have

(28:08):
always had to check myself,right? And so in listening to
some of the conversation, I wasteaching Roxane Gay right now
who's the greatest, and she hasan awesome essay on on privilege
called peculiar benefits in BadFeminist. That was a selection -
we just read it so it's fresh inmy mind. And so I always have to

(28:29):
be aware as I'm teaching Womenand Gender Studies, right? Let's
be honest, my entire class, I amthe only man in that classroom
actually, which has neverhappened to me before. And
basically, I handle any issuesrelating to race or any
minoritarian group pretty muchthe same way, so when I when I
teach my Women and GenderStudies class, I tell them I you

(28:52):
know, I say, the day that I tellyou that I'm 100% comfortable
teaching this class is the day Ican never teach this class
again. I have to come to thatclass acknowledgingmy privilege,
with an ear towards listening toother voices - with an ear
towards identifying the storiesthat I haven't heard that I

(29:15):
don't know, and opening upspaces for those stories to be
to be told. And so that's so theexperience is always difficult
on the other hand, it's alsoabout ally-ship, right? It's
important that straight whitemen - and I mean, let's be
honest, I think we need toaddress the moment that we're
having this conversation. It'sthe Thursday after the election,

(29:37):
we have no idea who our nextpresident is going to be still,
which is going to change thecourse. We're all walking on
eggshells very nervous for who'sgoing to be in the street. I
have both liberal students andconservative students and I'm
closest right now to my onground class. If I could
identify the way issues ofsocial and racial unrest in this

(30:04):
country are affecting me in theclassroom, it's actually I would
talk about fear and anxiety,both on my part and on my
students part is that they wantto talk about it. My class shows
up 15 minutes early, we are nottalking about literature for
those 15 minutes, we weretalking about what is going on.
And you know, and whether it's aconservative student of mine
who's really worried about theleft on the street, or, you

(30:26):
know, or if the other wayaround, they're afraid. And so
we need to be really conscious,I think as educators of how
everyone's feeling, includingourselves, so that we open up
and comes back to Shanita's safespaces, and the peculiar
challenge of creating safespaces in remote and online

(30:47):
environments. But also safespaces on ground. I'll be
honest, I got in trouble fouryears ago, after Trump was
elected for an email I sent outto all my faculty, which
apparently if I'd sent it as afaculty member would have been
okay. But because I sent it asan administrator, it was deemed
problematic, which is basicallythough, asking them... to just

(31:09):
let our students know what'sgoing to be okay, that
Northampton is actually acommunity have safe spaces,
where we can talk about theseissues. And so whatever we're -
and we're still there, now, wejust have more PTSD, and we're
just carrying more stress thanever. I mean, at least I'm gonna
I don't want to preach, I don'twant to suppose how you guys
felt on election night. But Imean, I think one commentator

(31:29):
put it best when, when Floridawas called Red. And they said, I
can hear liquor cabinets beingopened up across the nation.

Mel Sivells (31:39):
I knew we weren't going to take Florida, I knew
that

Gina Turner (31:43):
There was an article, I don't remember what
paper it was, but it was talkingabout the liquor store - it was
interviewing a liquor storeowner, and talking about the
difference after 2016 and 2020.
Just the difference inpurchasing liquor patterns...

Shanita Hubbard (32:01):
We talk about creating safe spaces for our
students, Northampton has to bevery deliberate for creating
safe spaces for us, you know,for the community. And I thought
about this when- right in thesummertime, like, right in the
midst of what is happening, Iwrote a piece for The Guardian.
And my white editors never thinkabout this, they will throw like

(32:25):
my bio is pretty general becauseI tried to I don't like the
whole world to know where I liveand where I work, you know, for
safety reasons. So she decidedto, you know, add to my bio that
I teach at Northampton, right.
So this is ready to summertime,right before classes are about
to start. Northampton isemailing a kabillion emails. And
then so are these people, right?

(32:46):
No, like, it was an articleabout everything that was going
on. And then you know, she putthat I worked here. So people
looked up my Northampton emailaddress to tell me exactly how
much you know, they hated mewhen I wrote some of it, they
love it. Some of they hated it.
But the point is my email, mywork email, I was upset. It was
buried in it. Like I'm gettingstuff from students, everything
was - it was terrible. And thenmy friends were like, Oh, my

(33:08):
gosh, are you concerned aboutyou know, losing your job? Like,
they're gonna know, I'm like,they're gonna know what, that
they're gonna know that I'mtotally against, you know,
racism? And I was like, andthat's not okay?

Tom O'Connor (33:24):
I have been meaning to talk to you about
that, Shanita!

Shanita Hubbard (33:28):
Then I take a stance against racism. I'm
afraid of that.. No, I'm notworried about that. And I would
say a lot more about them, youknow, then it would - I wasn't
worried about that. Because Ithink a that kind of speaks to
the space, the fact that theyjust never crossed my mind. I
thought that was crazy thatpeople were reaching out like,
Oh, my gosh, you're gonna belooking for a job. Like what?
speaking out of its racism.

Gina Turner (33:49):
I mean, it is always a question of how much we
share our own personal beliefsin the classroom. I mean, when I
think about how this hasimpacted me as an instructor, I
mean, I was also teachingclasses over the summer. And,
you know, we've touched Shanita,you just touched on the fact
that we need to keep safe spacesfor ourselves. And that's

(34:10):
something that we're going to,you know, talk a little bit more
about in a few minutes. But, onething I'm realizing is, is that
I need to make sure that I amable to feel as open and honest
with my students as possibleabout how I'm feeling that day.
So, if I come in, and I'm justhaving, I'm feeling a little

(34:34):
fragile, right, and I'll justsay, you know, wow, you guys,
I'm feeling a little fragiletoday. And now I teach
psychology and so again, it'ssort of you know, kind of like
with Mel the structure of whatshe's teaching is about,
basically modeling beingsupportive. You know, but almost
a figure with some authority andwith some gravitas and and I

(34:57):
guess for me, I think inpsychology It's really about
like modeling empathy. I mean,I, obviously I think we're all
trying to model empathy. Butit's a really important thing
for me for them to recognize theimportance of being, you know,
empathetic and vulnerable andhonest with each other. And so
I'm honest about, "oh my gosh,you guys, I was so busy, I meant

(35:19):
to have this, you know, this tabopen, I didn't have this tab
open" and just kind of trying tobe as authentic as I possibly
can. And, you know, to come inthe class and say, the news
yesterday, you guys or whateveris going on, just to take a
moment to recognize "Oh, yeah,I'm a human being in my, you
know, crazy Green Room, sittinghere with my croaky voice,

(35:42):
because it's eight in themorning, so I'm trying to drink
as much tea as I can, so that Idon't sound like a frog". Just
just kind of kind of recognizingall of the challenges and, and
to your point, Shanita, yourdaughter is a much more
insightful person than I feellike I was because it took me a
long time to come to the sameconclusion she did about video

(36:05):
in my classes, because nobodyturns on their video, but I
didn't emphasize it. And Ifinally realized that they need
to earn, I should say, I need toearn their trust, for me to be
allowed to interact in their ownspaces in their environment. So

(36:25):
I always have my video on butI've told them, "You know, as
long as you guys areinteracting", because I do a lot
of small group work, so I makesure I'm basically talking to
every student in the class, weuse the chat a lot, because as
you know, again, has beenpointed out, some of them are
struggling with having, youknow, good Wi Fi connections

(36:47):
having having strong enoughbandwidth. So, you know, having
video on isn't even an optionfor them, or their microphone
isn't working, or their laptopsbeing weird. So we use the chat
a ton. And we get a lot done inthe chat. I mean, they can do
small group stuff. And it'sfantastic to see the kind of
work that they can do in thechat. So I feel like we've now

(37:08):
been able to create anenvironment where they do feel
like we're interacting, andwe're a little bit of a
community even though we're notnecessarily staring at each
other no matter what we looklike.

Shanita Hubbard (37:20):
My daughter gave me a tip that I'm going to
share with you guys like I havelike in writing, I have this for
like people always ask me likesome people like you share so
much of yourself, do you haverules about what you share. And
I say that I don't, I only sharemy scars, not open wounds that
are still healing, like I'm notshowing you these things that
because you can touch them andaffect them, but also your scars
that healed if it's going tolead to collective healing. So

(37:42):
that's my rules about what Ishare. But I do realize that I'm
so much more guarded with mystudents. And my daughter
pointed this out to me, becauseI had my car in the shop one
day, I was supposed to be backhome by a certain time and I'm
like, damn my class is about tostart, and they're not even
finished. So I had to like goin. They gave me like a loaner
car. I'm like driving to outsideof the library to have my class,

(38:03):
but I didn't turn my camera on.
So I like have my whole classwithout my camera on. So I'm
telling my daughter about myday. So I told her that story.
She was like, why wouldn't youturn your camera on? I'm like,
because I'm in my car outside ofthe library, she said. So your
students need to know thatyou're struggling with these
technology issues too. And thatis not fun for you either. But
hey, you're doing the best youcan. She said they might think
that that's cool. She'sstruggling, just like we're

(38:23):
struggling. And I was like,damn, little 10 year old!.

Gina Turner (38:28):
That is amazing! That is so insightful!

Shanita Hubbard (38:31):
Yes, I was like, You know what, you're
right. I shouldn't put my cameraon and just explain to them
like, Listen, I was supposed tobe done. But here we are in a
car, and I'm stealing your Wi Fiat the library like this is what
we're doing. And I was like, Ireally should have shared that
with my students.

Gina Turner (38:43):
That is so terrific!

Mel Sivells (38:45):
With the camera thing, you know, I don't care if
they don't put their camera on.
But I need them to at leastchime in, though that I know
that they're there. But at somepoint in the semester, I do need
to see you. You know, I need toknow how you look and how, you
know. So I do wait until afterclass and say well, you know

(39:05):
what, Tom, can you hold on? Hangon for a minute, and then one on
one. I will say "Do you mindjust putting your camera on so
that we can meet each other faceto face?" And you know, and when
I put it like that they'llthey'll do it?

Tom O'Connor (39:20):
Yeah, it's been tough to navigate. I've swung on
this issue. I was the earlyproponent of they have not
invited us into their homes orwherever they're they're zooming
from. And so I wanted to respectthat. And so I was encouraging a
video, but I've made reallyclear that I was totally you

(39:40):
know, like that would be totallycool if they didn't use it. And
then like 60% of the cameraswent off. I felt like I'd
sabotage myself. And I'm playingwith the idea of a kind o
contract and I'm totallystealing this from my wife who
also teaches remotely and, youknow, she tells her students
that her expectation is thatthey're going to have their
video on if there's anythingthat's keeping them from that

(40:02):
they can just privately chatwith her, they will let her know
and if it's semester wide itwill be semester wide. You know,
and they don't have to, youknow, they don't have to divulge
every detail, but it can justbe, you know, it can be as loose
as my house situation is, youknow, it changes because of kids
pets, all these reasons. And forthose reasons, you know, my
preferences, you know, and I'llfind other ways to engage

(40:25):
because to Mel's point, I mean,that's what we need, we need
engagement. And I agree withyour male I want to see their
face at least once because Imean, we we communicate through
our faces, right? It's how webegin to know people. And
sometimes I feel a little bitlike, like, I'm teaching like a
blind man, if I if I have toomany videos not on, and I'm
imagining, you know, it's likeStephen Colbert, and all the

(40:47):
late night hosts after they wenthome, they no longer have an
audience in front of them.
That's how teaching feelsbasically, like, I don't know
how he responded to what I'msaying. If I can't see it.

Mel Sivells (40:57):
A funny story is I asked a student to put her
camera on, she put it on and sheand her boyfriend were hunting.
I said "Turn the camera off!Turn it off, turn it off!"

Gina Turner (41:12):
Oh, go ahead, Tom.

Tom O'Connor (41:13):
I had a student - I just I have to share. So she
turned her camera on to ask aquestion, which is another way
to simply say you can leave yourcamera off unless we put it on
maybe if you say something. Butwhen she this was not in my
class. So she turned her cameraon and she was Zooming from her
bed, and then a partner justgets up out of the bed next to
her. I'm like, all right, youknow, we do have to talk some

(41:36):
Zoom decorum, people.

Gina Turner (41:38):
Well, so how do you suppose what we are learning
about, you know, the Zoomdecorum and how we show up for
our students and what we sharewith our students. And Shanita
that is absolutely beautiful.
You know, you can show thescars, but not the wounds.

Mel Sivells (41:56):
I love that.

Gina Turner (41:56):
I love that too.
But what are we going to takeforward in, you know, 2021,
fingers crossed, when we arephysically back in our
classrooms, still dealing withall of these issues that this
summer has brought to light?
Right. I mean, one of thebiggest things I think that has
come out this summer, is that alot of the implicit stuff has

(42:18):
become very explicit, peopleunderstand more about what
privilege is, for better or forworse, people are finally really
understanding what systemicracism is, for better or for
worse. So you know, when somedaywe will not only be interacting
with each other on Zoom, what doyou think you guys will bring

(42:38):
forward into your in personclass or classes at that point?

Tom O'Connor (42:50):
Specifically, are you talking about technology
Gina in terms of technologies atthe moment, or no, you've moved?

Gina Turner (42:55):
No, I'm actually asking about - I'm not asking
about technology. I'm actuallyasking what we've learned now in
this moment, because we have touse technology, what is
something you will take forward?
When we don't have to usetechnology? Does that question

(43:15):
Make sense?

Mel Sivells (43:17):
It does, you know, I think that I would use to
temper myself a little bit moreto slow down. Because that, you
know, COVID had made us allstop. And then we had to realize
what was really important forour students to know, instead of
all of this other little busywork that would just kind of
enhance their learning a littlebit more, but how can I get what

(43:41):
they need to know, in a moremeaningful way, that's not going
to be wasting time, or just, youknow, kind of busy work. So I
want that. And I also want amore awareness of - and I guess
this is a byproduct of slowingdown, but just to get to know

(44:03):
each other more relationships isthe key to to success.

Gina Turner (44:08):
I love that just slowing down. Like the benefits
of slowing down. Sorry, goahead. Shanita.

Shanita Hubbard (44:14):
No, I was just saying that's good. But one of
the things that I'm no longerafraid of the pivot, like pre
COVID, when I would teach if Iwould have my syllabus, right
and I have this plan to get tothis point by maybe March. If
I'm not there, I would be like,damn it, I f-ed up. I was
considering like as a failure. Iwould like to be kind of
regimented to that. I'm notafraid of the pivot anymore.

(44:37):
Like we've literally had to stopchange and adjust and just make
life happen. And I'm going totake that with me if I'm doing
something and I think it's anamazing idea because it worked
last semester in the fall in theprevious semester. If it's not
working. I'm so cool withscrapping it and just creating
something right there. I'm justnot scared to pivot and scrap
that.

Mel Sivells (44:55):
That's the whole teaching piece of it. You have
to be so flexible in order for -and that spontaneous learning is
so much better than that preplanned learning.

Tom O'Connor (45:04):
Yeah, it is.

Gina Turner (45:05):
Yeah. How about you, Tom?

Tom O'Connor (45:07):
You know, I've been, so I've been ruminating on
this, and what what am I goingto bring forward. And I do want
to talk about a technologicalcomponent as it relates to
social justice issues, about howtechnology has changed our
classrooms. And it will foreverchange our classrooms going
forward in terms of and so whatI will bring forward is a

(45:28):
certain insight and awareness.
And it's this, and it's notgood, but it's really important.
And I think about it in terms ofhow changed would history be if
there hadn't been cameras on theEdmund Pettus Bridge, right. And
one thing that has changed sincethen, is the absolute abundance

(45:49):
of technology. And one reason Ithink that Gina to your earlier
point that the implicit hasbecome explicit for our
students, is they can see it.
And it was all people. I mean,like one of the best things to
come out of long standingviolence against people of color

(46:12):
by the police and others, right,is the diverse coalition of
people that have come to standup against that, and what that
looks like, right? So that's,that's a positive thing. But the
other thing that technology hasmade us so aware of as people
have gone to the streets inthese activisms, is we have a

(46:33):
white supremacist problem inthis country. And I mean, like,
we just need, we need to say it,we need to label it, and we need
to act and teach accordingly.
Because for a long time, wepretended that we were over that
we you know what I mean, it wasthe Klan. That was Jim Crow
South, right. And there may notbe hoods in the streets. But

(46:54):
there is a white supremacistmovement afoot in our country.
And I think I can say thatobjectively, without pushback
for most people. Most.

Gina Turner (47:07):
well...

Tom O'Connor (47:09):
like, and that isn't - so coming back to being

you (47:12):
the challenges of teaching issues related to race or gender
and sexuality as a white male.
Right, like, well, now I'mteaching as a white male, where
my ally-ship is more importantthan ever, right? And building
new coalition's acrossdifference is more important
than ever. And I don't know yethow that's going to change
exactly our classrooms. But itwill, it is forever changed from

(47:35):
this moment to what we now know,especially knowing how close
this vote was because this was areferendum, not just on a
president. This was a referendumon racism in this country.

Tom O'Connor (47:44):
Amen, Shanita!

Shanita Hubbard (47:44):
Oh my god, can I please say something I'm
typing really, as we kind ofcontinue to have open dialogue
Because askingme to do this, and like, you
about what ally-ship look like,I hate that word. I'm like, No,
roll up your sleeves, be aco-defender get to work, we got
it. What is work look like in anacademic setting, and looks like
your white peers having thesecomplicated conversations in
their classroom. So like Melsaid, we're not the only people
know, be the whole... this brownprofessor, to come around,

(48:05):
saying this. Right? And I thinkback to last semester, um,
obviously, this was before a lotof stuff happened, but not
before it existed. Right? So I'min this documentary that's
speaking about sexual violenceagainst black woman. So, like,
the school was reallysupportive, right? And they were
like, Oh, this is great. Um,there was a lot of like, some of
our white professors like, thisis fantastic. Are you going to

(48:27):
show this? You know, are yougoing to teach this and you
teaching all of this. You'reexhausting me, right? And you
know, and I'm like, I understandtheir intent. But intent is
different from impact. And I'mlike, you can also teach this,
if you're not familiar, do thework, watch the film, roll up
your sleeves, do some googlingand talk to me teaching your own
class, right? You can do thistoo.

(48:54):
think you're an ally, but you'remaking me more tired. So
ally-ship looks like you doingthe work too. Do the work
because when you don't do thework, you make it extra harder
and heavier to lift for all yourother black professors. Right?
So I love that Thomas teachingRoxane Gay it's like making my
black feminist heart leap thathe's a white man doing this,

(49:15):
like seriously, like, normalizethis, do the word get familiar
with it, because that's whatally-ship looks like in our -
period. But especially inacademia, it looks like our
white professors doing the worktoo.

Gina Turner (49:27):
I think that's, again, I'm so glad you emphasize
that and, you know, again, thatthe work needs to be shared and
some of the most - the missingconversations are white allies
with other white allies and tobe able to talk about their new

(49:48):
understanding or to be able toshare their understanding from
similar perspectives. I was in ameeting the other day and a
white colleague shared that shefound it hard to imagine how we
could do diversity hiring at thesame time as finding good
candidates. And it was justreally stunning to me to hear.

(50:12):
But I would have never heardthat had these conversations not
be bubbling up. So it's anopportunity to explain and to
give a little moreunderstanding. But in the
moment, I personally wasabsolutely exhausted. I just
couldn't, I couldn't bringmyself to answer the question.
And thank goodness, anothercolleague actually did. And it

(50:35):
was great to be able to see thatthose are conversations that can
happen out, you know, that arenot only driven by people of
color, and that's one of the,the important pieces of
ally-ship is not just read abook, but talk about the book
that you have read with otherwhite people.

Mel Sivells (50:56):
Right.

Shanita Hubbard (50:56):
And also make connecting the dots - we're
talking a lot about racialunrest, right, and how we bring
into our classrooms. But there'ssomething else going on in
academia, maybe that's a wholenother discussion for another
podcast. But there's been a slewof these white professors
pretending to be people of colorholding high ranking positions
in academia. Right? And it feelsweird.

Mel Sivells (51:17):
I don't get it.

Shanita Hubbard (51:18):
You have amazing people like me who are
just adjuncts who can't climbthe rung. But you have these
white professors pretending tobe black, or, you know, Puerto
Rican teaching these things andexcelling. Specifically happened
in academia, that's a problem.
That's a conversation. So atsome point, we can be like, Oh,
we want to have theseconversations with our students.
And don't be afraid. But we'rebeing intellectually dishonest
at best if this conversationisn't happening in academia, at

(51:40):
best.

Gina Turner (51:44):
Well, you know, I actually, this was kind of
great, I wish if anyonelistening to this could see all
the energy that I'm seeing inthe Zoom squares, because we all
got very energized, talkingabout this last bit of material.
And so I actually want to comeback to something that Shanita
had brought up, which is, howare we taking care of ourselves.

(52:07):
And this was the quote that Iused on our last podcast. And I
just think it's so beautiful.
It's from Audre Lorde. And shesays, "caring for myself is not
self indulgence. It is selfpreservation. And that is an act
of political warfare." So when Iframe the question of how are
you engaging in selfpreservation, I am saying that

(52:28):
that is crucial. It's notfrivolous, it's not, you know,
pampering yourself, but it isfinding ways to ready yourself
for the next steps and the nextbattles. So I will come to Mel
now, how are you engaging inself preservation? [Laughter -

(52:50):
Mel holds up a bottle of wine]

Tom O'Connor (52:54):
For the record, since this is an audio medium,
thank you, Mel, that looked likea really good red wine that just
held up?

Gina Turner (53:01):
I love it!

Mel Sivells (53:06):
What I have been doing really, besides the wine
is, I started walking, I juststarted walking around the
neighborhood, and you know, justtaken in the air and just
looking and just seeingliterally being able to see my
surroundings and be verythankful for what I do have.

Gina Turner (53:28):
That's, that's great. Exactly, just that it's a
small thing that we can do. Justtake a walk, take a notice of
our surroundings. And that's,you know, we can all take a few
minutes to do something likethat, you know, after we've had
the glass of wine,

Mel Sivells (53:44):
After the wine, everything looks so much better,
after the wine.

Gina Turner (53:49):
How about for you, Shanita?

Shanita Hubbard (53:51):
I implemented some strategies that is so
helpful one, I use "No" as acomplete sentence. That's it.
Like I don't feel the need toexplain myself. I say no, so
much. My editor from theGuardian, hit me up. I was
telling Tom this at like, sevenin the morning when they was
like "Can you, you want to writeabout the election and of
Kamala"? No, like, That's it!That's it! No, I just say no, a

(54:13):
whole lot more. And then thesecond thing I did, which is
like super helpful, um, I havean email address, obviously, for
Northampton, my personal one,and then one for like, my
writing career. The only onethat's on my phone is my
personal one. That's it, becauseif I see it at 11 o'clock at
night, I'm going to respond toto it at 11 o'clock at night and
I'm going to be working 24hours. So now I have very

(54:35):
specific time when I check myemail, but they're not on my
phone. No one is getting 24 houraccess to me. That's crazy.

Mel Sivells (54:42):
Boundaries.

Shanita Hubbard (54:43):
I can't believe I live like that before. So,
nope, absolutely not.

Gina Turner (54:47):
N. O.

Mel Sivells (54:50):
Period.

Gina Turner (54:52):
Excellent. And Tom have you've come up with
anything? Poor Tom. So on ourlast episode of the podcast, Tom
said he..

Tom O'Connor (55:00):
I said I was bad, at self care. I'm not great, I
do struggle. Like, I tend tomake more work. And so like, and
I'm done, I've done in the twoweeks since we last recorded, I
have done no home projects thatI can think of. So that's,

Gina Turner (55:13):
That's great. And Yay, what's her name? Your
that's a win. But there isanother thing that that I'm
doing. And I've been doing moreand I don't know how conscious
this was, and I want to make itmore conscious. And maybe it's
you know, like, but I'm, I'manswering hate with love. And
what I mean by that is like, Iam just, I am trying to do like,

(55:36):
my own self care as a form ofcaring for and supporting and
promoting others. And I'll givean example. I'm going to do it
right now on the show, I'm goingto give it and I'm just going to
promote like an awesome studentwho wrote this amazing thing in
my class, just because I saw itthis morning. And I wrote her,
you know, an email letting herknow how awesome what she wrote

(55:57):
was, and she used so and there'san Audre Lorde connection here,
Gina, that you will appreciateSee, this is my students, Chane
, in my Women and Gender Stdies class. Hi Chanel! You
re awesome. And she wrote tis incredibly moving paper ab
ut police brutality and the currnt activism in the street. And

(56:21):
he fear that goes along with tht, and the desire for change.
nd she used Audre Lorde's,"the master's tools will
never dismantle the master's hose", to make this compelling
rgument that the violenceand the looting that we've seen
in some small areas, right, i's been way over emphasized by t
e news, most of the protests hve been have been lawful and p

(56:43):
aceful. And we do need to addres anger and also make a space
for for righteous anger, we needthat to, right? But it w
s such a beautiful sentimentAnd she just, and she was ner
ous, she sent me an email likethis was you know, and it was a
ough - I asked my studentsto apply feminist theory to othe
things. So here she is, you knw, doing that exceptionally w

(57:05):
ll. And, so I just want to saythat that moved me and I mean,
ike, and it's those shout outshose moments, it is it's represe
ting those voices that we ned to represent and tellin
the stories we need to tell. Ad so I can show that love
here towards the student, I canyou know, I can hopefully show
t to you guys by hopefully, younow, cracking a joke and trying
o be a generous interviewer. Butlike I, I just want to, it's

(57:29):
ust, it's a state of mind. And slike, it's not selfless. It's
very selfish thing, that bringng some some peace or smile
and maybe even a moment stabiity into other people's very
estabilized, chaotic livesmakes me feel better about
myself and makes me feel a littlbit stable. Like I can contr
l that in a world where I feelncreasingly less in contr

(57:51):
l. Hmm. So that's, that's my acof self preservation.
student? Oh,

Tom O'Connor (58:00):
Chanel.

Mel Sivells (58:01):
Yay, Chanel, go Chanel!

Tom O'Connor (58:06):
How about you, Gina?

Gina Turner (58:07):
Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna share two things. One
is really quick. And this is myfavorite thing in the whole
world, which is my essential oildiffuser.

Tom O'Connor (58:17):
And I thought that was a bottle of chianti!

Gina Turner (58:20):
That's over here! And you can see it changes

Mel Sivells (58:20):
Exactly! color, it cycles through colors,
and it's got jasmine oil in itright now. And, so I am always
got this blasting in the office

Tom O'Connor (58:32):
I'm trying to do the piano thing (sings) "power".
whenever I'm in the office. Butthe other thing is that I feel
incredibly grateful for is thatI'm teaching yoga on Tuesday
nights through Zoom. And, it'sgoing, actually, surprisingly
well, I'm having fun with it.
But I started making a playlistbased on the theme of the class
each week. So I make a littleplaylist in Spotify. And this

(58:53):
past week's class, it wasTuesday. So it was Election Day,
and the theme was "power". Andso then I just pull in a bunch
of songs, you know, the lengthof - because I normally play
music in my yoga classes, butLove me some Nina Simone.
it's hard to do that on Zoom. SoI just tell them, if you want
to, you know, go to Spotify, andplay it in the background while

(59:13):
we have our yoga class. But Ihave so much fun putting these
playlists together. And then Iend up like dancing around the
house to them for the rest ofthe week. You know, I'll be
like, "Oh, I'm gonna put on thapower playlist again." And it
s got Nina Simone's Sinnermanand she of course, just goes "

(59:34):
ower!" she just yells powern that song. And then there is
nother song that's called "Nia Cried Power". So I was reall
pleased w

Gina Turner (59:50):
Yeah. So music is...

Tom O'Connor (59:54):
(sings more) we're gonna get sued by someone for
copyright.

Gina Turner (59:59):
We haven't been sued yet for our theme song!

Tom O'Connor (01:00:03):
Hey, we're gonna be blowing up - then the feds
will be come calling. Alright,well, we have to wrap but this
has been such a pleasure. Ican't -you know this has been an
incredibly fast moving hour. Iwant to thank both Mel and
Shanita both, you guys have beensuch lovely guests.

Mel Sivells (01:00:22):
Thank you guys.

Tom O'Connor (01:00:23):
And I'm gonna take a lot of this conversation with
me and Shanita, just as I stoleJoy Reed's bit off her show. I'm
stealing that whole scar, openwound thing. I love that.

Mel Sivells (01:00:35):
What a great analogy.

Tom O'Connor (01:00:37):
You gotta turn that into something.

Shanita Hubbard (01:00:38):
I'll put it in my book. I'll put it in my book.

Tom O'Connor (01:00:40):
Please do, it needs to be there. But um,

Gina Turner (01:00:45):
This has just been so fun talking to you. I
actually feel healed from thisconversation today.

Shanita Hubbard (01:00:51):
This was really good. Like I haven't - This is
my first time having this withmy peers at Northampton. And
this is just feels really good.

Tom O'Connor (01:01:00):
We need to be doing this more, then.

Gina Turner (01:01:00):
We need to do more of this - yes!

Mel Sivells (01:01:03):
This was really awesome.

Tom O'Connor (01:01:05):
Start a movement.
Well, I thank you and thanks toour audience. We're gonna be
recording in two weeks and ournext podcast, God willing, we'll
know who our president is bythen. But we are tempting fate
by making the topic of our nextpodcast "the political
atmosphere". So you will almostcertainly want to tune in for
that. And with that, we bid youall well, and thanks for

(01:01:27):
listening.
Hey, thanks for listening toPedagogy-a-go-go recorded in the
Center for Teaching Learning andTechnology at Northampton
Community College in Bethlehem,Pennsylvania. Our podcast

(01:01:50):
daydreamer slash show runner isKelly Allen and Pedagogy-a-go-go
is produced by Jeff Armstrong.
If you've got any questions,please send them to
Pedagogy-a-go-go at gmail.com.
Our social media handle is atPedagogy-a-go-go and you can
stop by our website at wwwPedagogy-a-go-go dot com for
copies of podcast transcripts,guest assignments and other

(01:02:11):
useful tidbits. Keep in mindthere are no hyphens or dots in
any of the above web addresses.
Until next time, this is Ginaand Tom saying Take care and
teach well