Pandemic Pedagogies and the Art of Self-Care

Episode Transcript
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Gina Turner (00:00):
1234 Pedagogy a go go.

Unknown (00:07):
Pedagogy Go go go

Hello and welcome to Pedagogy-a-go-go, a podcast
about college faculty sharingwhat happens in their classrooms
and why. This is Season Three,Episode One, Pandemic Pedagogies
and the Art of Self Care, and weare your hosts, Gina Turner and
Tom O'Connor.

Kelly Allen (00:34):
What are we doing?

Tom O'Connor (00:36):
All right, I guess I'm just gonna jump into the
deep end.

Can you swim?

No, I definitely can't.

Rebecca Martin (00:43):
He's a good swimmer!

(laughter) Well, hello, and welcome to
Pedagogy-a-go-go quarantineedition, quad-cast? COVID
edition? I think we're gonnahave to find a good name. I'm
here with my co host, GinaTurner, after probably the
longest seven months in history,it is really good to see and
hear you again, Gina.

Likewise, Tom, I'm kind of amazed that we're able
to come back to what had been alittle, you know, sense of
normalcy, and doing our podcastonce a month. So it's really
great to be back. And I'm reallylooking forward to this
conversation.

I am too. And it's kind of a special conversation.
I don't want to call this aspecial edition. But these are
crazy times. And so I think wefelt that we needed to have a
podcast that was designed toaddress the times we're living
in. So rather than go throughkind of our usual format, we're
here with two very specialguests, Professor of literature

(01:43):
and food science, Kelly Allen,who also happens to be our show
runner, and Professor ofliterature, who teaches in the
medical humanities, as well assome of our developmental
literacy classes, ProfessorRebecca Martin, who also happens
to be my wife. So, welcome toyou both, and welcome to the
show. It's awesome family,

It's all in the family.

And for this first podcast, and we hope to do two
more in the next coming weeksbefore what is the end of our
fall semester. This is theelephant in the room podcast,
we're going to be addressing thepandemic and COVID and how has
it affected our livesacademically, in the classroom
and at home. So, we hope thatthis conversation is meaningful,

(02:30):
and that you all find somethinghere value. I've talked a lot in
this show about aboutvulnerability. And this is a
moment where I think we asmembers of this program can
allow ourselves to bevulnerable. And talk about how
challenging the last couplemonths have been, and share kind
of the stories of strength thatare getting us through the winds

(02:53):
that we're having, and some ofthe hills that we've had to
climb along the way.

Mm hmm.

So we are all trying to muddle through and you
know, one of the ways in whichwe're muddlling is trying to
continue our jobs as academicsas administrators at this
community college. And, youknow, some of us are struggling,
some faculty are struggling asmuch as the students are. So the
first question really is just ingeneral, how are you tackling

(03:21):
COVID? The pandemic, socialdistancing? How is that coming
up in your classes? Who wants togo first? Or do I have to call
on someone? I'm using my teachervoice!

Where do we start with that? You know? But yeah,
so I've got a whole bunch ofthings that I could certainly
unload, but I tend to like to golast. So if anyone else would

Oh you like to go last? I thought you were the
like to...
"like to go first" type. Okay. Ihave no problem with that. I
have thoughts...

lay it on us, sister.

Just quickly, just because you're new to the
audience. And I gave you anotherbrief intro. Do you mind just
telling us a little bit aboutyour role at NCC and who you are
first.

I know, honestly, Thomas, as someone
married to me, that was a verybrief description, when there's
a lot to go on. (laughter) So ifyou don't know me, I'm Rebecca
Martin. And I teach in theEnglish department. And I teach
developmental, English, I teachwomen's literature, so I teach

(04:39):
in the Women's Studies programtoo. And I teach an English II,
that is focused on the medicalhumanities. That's what my
dissertation work was in andit's actually very timely for
COVID because all of my researchand my dissertation was done
focusing on an area of researchthat really says learning and

(05:00):
reading literature is good formedical professionals in their
education and in theirdevelopment as practitioners.
And I think every time I watchedthe news, and I see the kind of
video logs that doctors andnurses and respiratory
therapists are offering to thenews to try to describe their
experiences, I mean, those arewhat I studied, they are their

(05:23):
medical literature, their, theirchaos narrative, specifically,
which is my specific area ofspecialization. We get so
specific in these longdissertations! Chaos narratives
are narratives that are told inthe middle of an event, it can
be an illness event, it can be apandemic, but chaos narratives

(05:43):
are kind of defined by the factthat they are in the middle of
that experience, there is noconclusion yet, often they're
marked by kind of this feelingof being trapped in the
ever-present. And certainly, Ithink, when I hear people talk
about their COVID experiences,they are talking about being
trapped in a chaos narrative.
And I find that funny in someways, because that's my area of

(06:07):
research. And I see peoplehandling it in the ways that I
researched, which is some peoplelike roll up in a ball, and they
don't want to talk about it.
Other people are like, "I've gotthis under control, I'm going to
exert as much power over peopleas I can hear my policies,
here's my discipline, this iswhat we're gonna do!" as though,
you know, somehow that's gonnawrite the world. Other people, I

(06:31):
think, approach it kind of like,we were talking about before we

started recording, which is (06:35):
how do you answer the question of
how are you doing right now? Howdo you answer the question of,
how you're feeling or where youare, and in the chaos narrative
theory, and in my own personalexperiences, as someone with my
own chronic illness, you know,often just being present is

(06:59):
enough. And I see that with mystudents, to get back to
teaching, which is what we'resupposed to be talking about. My
students are very comfortable,some of them, being in chaos,
they have lived lives where theyhave not been secure, where they
have not had a guaranteed safetynet, where they're very used to
feeling a bit out of control.
And so COVID has put pressure onthem. But in some ways, I think

(07:24):
that they had skill sets thatothers of us did not have coming
in. And sometimes in class, whenwe meet, we just talk about what
they're doing and how they'remanaging. And they kind of want
to talk about the people whoaren't handling the chaos that
well. And they want to talkabout the ways that the people

(07:45):
who are not handling the chaos,well are resorting to
"discipline and punish" as a wayof coping and they're seeing
that in their classrooms. So, soone of the things that I've been
thinking about in my classroomin terms of COVID, is my

(08:06):
policies. Are my policiesmeaningful during COVID? And if
they're not meaningful now, andif they're not necessary, now,
are they necessary? Are theygoing to be necessary in
meaningful post COVID? Are mypolicies rooted in kind of old
fashioned ideals of what astudent should be that are not

(08:29):
productive anymore? And I knowthere's a lot of students right
now who are struggling withfaculty who are enforcing
policies that for the studentsfeel really just like - I've had
those students say "this personis just totally out to lunch".
They are not aware of how we'reliving in the world. And I don't

(08:50):
know, I just sort of wonder. Ithink it used to be a badge of
courage for academics to be alittle out to lunch, but I do
wonder if now COVID has...

exacerbated.

That's the word Gina. (laughter) But it hasn't
done that. And, we need toreally seriously look at our
pedagogy. And really seriouslythink about the things that
we've always just taken forgranted.

Kelly, you were gonna say something?

Oh, yeah. So, um, so I kind of have a question for
you, Becca. Because like, asyou're talking, I was like,
"Well hold the phone". Are youtalking about reconsidering,
like reimagining, our pedagogy,specifically in response to

(09:47):
COVID or is this something thatwe maybe should have been
thinking about earlier thanthat. So, you had introduced
yourself as a developmentaleducator, and we know that we
have listeners who are not partof the Northampton Community

(10:10):
College community, or perhapslisteners (actually I know
there's listeners out there whoteach at a four year college or
university). So they're notquite familiar with what
developmental education is. Andso I know that when I was hired
at Northampton, in 2008, I washired to teach those courses.

(10:34):
And as you and I both know,those are classes where we need
to really focus on adaptivepedagogies. Because we're
working with individuals thatcome from a very wide variety of
educational backgrounds. And thething that just always like,

(10:56):
just pissed me off, when I wasteaching those courses was that
there was this idea that, okay,the students have taken these
courses, and now they're "fixed"or whatever. And now we can
start teaching in, in this"traditional" in what we all

(11:17):
know, now is this very kind oflike, you know, white
supremacist like,colonial-driven forms of
pedagogy within higher ed. Andwhat I'm hoping that happens.
And this is kind of like feedingoff of what you had said is,
what I'm hoping that happens isthat people start to realize,

(11:37):
Oh, we don't have to do it thisway, that what we are doing is
actually harmful to the academicand emotional well being of our
students, and also for forourselves. So I know, it's just,
yeah, to go back to how Istarted this, like the way that

(11:59):
you began this conversation.
Like, I had to just keepreminding myself that, you're
talking about COVID, but you'realso not talking about COVID.
So...

I think I think that's a great point, Kelly, is
that this experience is justshining such a light on our
individual pedagogicalphilosophies. So Tom, you are
gonna say something.

Ah, I was like three things I wanted to respond
to, I guess I wanted to returnto the idea of rigidity versus
adaptability. Becca, you weretalking about the people who use
you know, the old Foucaultian"discipline and punish" right?
As a means to try to assertorder in our lives.

She dropped an F bomb there!

if I say discipline, and punish, Foucault
is coming!

It's like throwing candy at a kid during Halloween!
(laughter) Well, let me speakreally, personally, Kelly, you
approached me and Gina aboutdoing a show on the pandemic,
like five, five months ago,right in the middle of the
summer. And I was not able toadapt in that moment, I did not
feel up to the task of havingthis conversation at that time,

(13:17):
and I want to be open aboutthat. Because like, I was angry,
because I think people wereoperating under so much stress,
our teachers and students, andin my role, you know, I'd have
people calling me with issuesand and they'd say, "well, I'm
just dropping these studentsfrom my class, I'm going to fail

(13:40):
everyone". And and that that wastheir response was because they
were ready to kind of just togive up and be done with it,
because they had too muchsitting on their plate. And so I
think we, as educators have allhad to work on building up our
reserves, right, our capital,our ability to adapt. And that
was during the summer of greattransition as we decided how we

(14:04):
were going to teach in a COVIDworld. And one thing we actually

haven't addressed is (14:08):
we're all teaching in new formats. So I
have a hybrid ground class. Idon't know if any, is anyone
else? You're teaching anythingin person?

Yeah, I am.

You are, Kelly.
And that's a traditional class,but it's a new world. We're
sitting in a socially distanceclassroom behind masks. My jokes
don't land because I don't havemy affect. You know, I'm a
little deaf in one ear.
(laughter) So, you know, whereasI used to follow who was
speaking by their face and theirand their reactions, you know, I
have to be like, "I heardsomeone talking in this part of

(14:41):
the room". So, I had to readaptto that. And oddly enough, and
so here's a really positivething. It's one of the best on
ground experiences I've everhad. Not because of those
difficulties, but in some waybecause every student had
elected to learn in thatenvironment and knew what they
were coming for. Whereas thissometimes takes classes weeks to

(15:03):
build camaraderie, like we hadthat. There was a gratitude in
that classroom and eagerness tobe here. And I've had in COVID
times the best attendance I'veever had an on ground class.
Comparatively, I'm also teachingwhat we're calling a blended
online, which is half the classis a synchronous, half of it's
remote, you know, where we meetup. And that's why - so the

(15:23):
ground classes English II, theonline class is a women and
gender studies class. And let metell you, Zooming at eight in
the morning, is tough! I am, Ido not always feel great that I
am doing enough as a teacher toengage them, because - and
they're really honest about it.
They're like, "I woke up threeminutes ago, I'm on my phone,

(15:43):
I'm in bed, I'm not going toturn on my camera". And so I
have to build into the classincentives, to engage in a
visual way, if you'recomfortable. And then also be
understanding, you know, I havea student who's like, I have
vertigo, so it's helpful for meto not have my camera on, or, I
don't know, the circumstances ofI might have students that are

(16:04):
living in a house withoutfurniture, or have kids, they
need to be muted because theyhave young kids running around.
And so, Becca had a good laugh

at me, you know, 9 (16:17):
30 in the morning, after my class is done,
I'm also invited into all thesepeople's living rooms. So here I
am, a straight white man readingaloud a poem about lesbian
desire and sex by Audre Lorde,by a black feminist woman. And
then I see someone's dad, justwalking around in the background

(16:39):
of the shot, you know, as we'retrying to have a really
vulnerable conversation. Andthat like a gender studies class
is an area where on ground, Ifelt like I had a really good
tool set for creating anenvironment where everyone
trusted each other. And I willtell you that in a Zoom class
that I'm recording, where otherpeople's family members are
listening in, it's really hardto do that. And I'm not always

(17:04):
successful. And I want to ownthat lack of success right here
and right now, for everyone elsewho's feeling that struggle. And
so I began by talking aboutvulnerability, this is my
attempt to be that, because, Ithink we're all exposed nerves.
As educators, we have never beenmore vulnerable. And teaching
has never been hard. Becausemany of us have been teaching

(17:25):
10, 15, 20 years, we're like,"we got this". And all of a
sudden, the field around hasjust changed.

It's so true. And as I listen to what the three of
you are saying, I mean, I haveto just pick up on something
everyone said, you know, Rebeccawas talking about how we really
have to think about what arethese boundaries and structures
that we're building into ourclassrooms in this environment?
And what are we going to carryforward? And then, of course,

(17:54):
what Tom was saying just aboutthe online blended, but I have
to say, I've discovered that Ilove online blended! Which I
would have never guessed in amillion years, because, as you
described, half of the work isdone asynchronously. So they do
it on their own time. And thenthe other half is a once a week
meeting for an hour and 15minutes, I also have an 8am

(18:17):
class. And sometimes my voice isso croaky, because I haven't
spoken to another soul thatmorning, I have to drink lots of
tea while I'm teaching theclass. But in letting go of so
many of my expectations that Ihad in my on ground class, I
feel like I've created a spacein the online blended, where

(18:38):
what I actually want - thekernel of what I actually want
to happen - is happening. So, inmy on ground classes, I have
index cards that I handed out atthe beginning of class, and we
do a one question quiz at thebeginning of the class. And then
I have my handouts for thediscussions. And I have my
handouts for the demonstrationsthat they're going to do
together. And when I wasplanning for the semester, I

(19:01):
turned to my husband, I said,What am I going to do about
handouts? And I realized, Idon't need handouts. There's no
reason for me to have paperhandouts. I don't need these
index cards. So we still startwith a question, which is kind
of the icebreaker. And part ofthe reason I used to do that in
on ground classes is toencourage them to be there on

(19:22):
time, because they earned acouple of points for being
there. I stole that idea fromanother professor. And I love
it, it works really well. Butbecause it is less disruptive to
come in to an online version ofthe class, people drifting in a
little late, doesn't bother me,which then shows how much of it

(19:43):
was a personal irrational biasthat I had - not irrational -
but it was a personal bias thatI had about getting to class on
time. And of course, then that Ifind out later it's because
their connection was weak orbecause they had to do it in the
break room from work, etc, etc,because everybody's schedules
are crazy. And so it's veryinteractive, you know, I have

(20:09):
the students answering questionsand raising their hands and
putting them in small groups,and then the groups report out.
And like you, Tom, I feel likethe attendance has been
phenomenal. I've had really goodattendance in these three
classes that I'm teaching. So,you know, it's, I don't want to
call it a silver lining, becausewe are in the middle of chaos,
but at least it is showing mepersonally, things that I will

(20:33):
carry forward when I teach inthe future, and let go a lot of
the things that I felt were so,so important. So we've really
been talking about how COVID hasimpacted us as teachers. And
Rebecca, you talked a little bitabout, talking about it in
class, but I'm wondering ifyou've brought it in, almost as

(20:54):
content for your class? Are anyof you using the virus, or the
pandemic and social distancingas content in your classes, and
if so, how?

One of the things that - I don't know if
this is directly related toCOVID, or not, but it's sort of
there's so many massive thingshappening in our culture right
now and country, that it's,they're all coming into the
classroom at the same time. AndI do think there can be silver

(21:28):
linings in chaos, and I thinkit's important to grab those
when you find them. My studentslove the blended online, they
are all hopeful that it sticksaround, that they have that
option that they don't have todo fully asynchronous online,
that there are blended online.
Because I think, this idea thatin massive shifting times, you

(21:50):
do kind of invent new ways ofapproaching things that you
wouldn't have otherwise, becauseyou're destabilized, and then
suddenly, you have to find a wayto re-stabilize yourself. But we
read the short story "EverydayUse" by Alice Walker, in my 151
class, and we had one of themost meaningful conversations

(22:14):
about the impact of educationand class that I have ever had
with a group. They wanted totalk about - so the premise of
the story is that there's a momand two daughters, the one
daughter goes off to get aneducation, she comes back to see
her mom and her sister, and shehas been changed by that

(22:39):
experience. And Alice Walker isinteresting, because she makes D
who's the sister who's goneaway, not that likable. She's
got a lot of things about herthat are abrasive. And the other
daughter, Maggie, the othersister, she's quiet, and she's
been burned in a fire. And shesort of keeps to herself, but
she's learned the old ways ofliving. And so the story really

(23:01):
sets up this distinction betweenwhat happens when you go off and
get educated versus if you'vestayed at home, and the values
of both sides of thatconversation. And my students
really wanted to talk about -they're sitting on their homes.
Many of them with parents whodon't understand why they're
going to college, or parents whodidn't give them a choice about

(23:26):
going to college. Right, it'slike a spectrum. And they wanted
to talk really specificallyabout their decision to continue
going to college THIS semester.
And they wanted to talk about,you know, last semester was a
dumpster fire. And I'm like, Ihear you, we all felt that, you
know, and then they talked aboutthis transition online, and it

(23:51):
was really quick. And peopledidn't know how to do it, and
that they over the summer reallythought a lot about "do I want
to go back to college in thefall? Do I want to invest my
time and money there? Is theinvestment going to be worth it?
Because we're going to beonline? And do I even like
online? And will online work andwhat am I going to get from it".
And the story allowed them aplace to talk about that

(24:16):
decision. And I don't know aboutyou guys, but when I did mid
semester reporting, and I sentemails to the students I hadn't
heard from, I got a lot. I got acouple of responses from
students who said, thank you somuch for reaching out. I almost
gave up last week. I almoststopped because - and they all

(24:38):
have a lot of good reasons whythey almost stopped. But many of
them, two or three of them said"I really appreciate that you
still think I can do it. And thefact that you still think I can
do it makes me think that I canstill do it". And they've

(24:59):
invested Did this money andthey've already invested time.
And just getting a note from mesaying, we still have time for
you to make up this work, we'lltalk about what you can focus
on, certain past assignments aremore important than others. And,
and that was a pedagogical moveon my part, that, even though I

(25:19):
would say I am one of the mostadaptive teachers, I pride
myself on it. And Kelly's rightwith that developmental
education background, you haveto be on your toes constantly.
It's one of the reasons I loveteaching Dev. Ed, you have
absolutely no idea what you'regoing to see every day in the
classroom. And for some people,that would be terrifying. For

(25:40):
me, it makes me feelinvigorated. But, you know, one
of the things I had to reallythink about with my curriculum,
and my pedagogical kind ofapproach this semester is: what
assignments do I value the most?
Which ones are not as valuable?
And if they're not as valuable,why am I having students do

(26:02):
them? And why am I grading them?
Because the grading load, Idon't know about you guys, but
like, my, my face time withstudents has gone down, but my
grading load has increasedexponentially. And so there's

this kind of question of (26:12):
Am I giving them meaningful
assignments? And if they fallbehind, are those assignments
still meaningful? And shouldthey still invest that time in
them? Because (and this is quitea long winded way around to what
I want to say), but our studentsinvestment in education is their

(26:35):
entire future. For us, it'sanother class for teaching, we
already have our education. Sowe have MAs and BAs, and PhDs,
and all those things behind ourname. And I think sometimes,
like, I got my Master's andnobody made a big deal out of it
in my family, I got my PhD andnobody made a big deal out of
it. But, that's the kind offamily I came from, they were

(26:55):
like, yeah, that's expected ofyou. Of course, you're gonna do
that. And, and I have to alwaysremind myself that every single
email I send out just touchingbase and saying, "you can still
do this, I'm gonna work with youto do this". That is the
difference between themtransforming their own lives and
potentially their family'slives, or giving up and stopping

(27:16):
and believing that this is notfor them, that education is not
for them. And that that isalways on the table when we
teach, but I feel like duringCoronavirus, there's just so
much extra pressure. They'reworking so much more, finances
are so much like tighter, theeconomic implications of this

(27:37):
Coronavirus are so, so crazy,the the health insurance aspects
of it, that they have a lot ofother things that are clearly
much more important, I think, ina lot of ways than the readings
that we're doing in my class,and yet they're still willing to
invest in what we're doing. AndI just find that, first of all
inspiring, but also, it makes mereally think about the fact that

(28:01):
like, Am I tired? Is there a lotof grading? Absolutely. Is it
worth it to take a little extratime to grade that late
assignment and give that studentthat chance that I otherwise
would have closed the door on?
Hell yeah! I mean, like when wetalk about the actual costs, my

(28:22):
25 minutes is not worth a pennycompared to what that could
potentially mean for theirfuture. And I don't want to lose
track of that. Because one ofthe things I I see happening
with the burnout that'shappening in faculty, one of the
stages of burnout isdepersonalization. Where

(28:43):
suddenly the people that you areserving and you are working
with, you have to kind of notsee them as full people anymore.
Because you are exhaustedemotionally, you feel like you
aren't making any progress, andso you depersonalized from them
in the world. We have to double-and triple-down, and remember
what we're here to do, andremember what doors we are

(29:06):
keeping open, and honest to God,stand in that doorway holding
that door open for as long as ittakes because this is so much
bigger than us being tired andburned out. And I don't know
Coronavirus has just made merealize that even more. I could
keep going but i won't!(laughter)

i just want to - can we, for the purposes of this
show and every person listeningto this, to Pedagogy-a-go-go
right now, let this be thepay-it-forward moment. Tell your
students if you yourself are aneducator, that they can do this,
that you're going to help them,support them. They need to hear
- I'm just going to say in thelast 48 hours one of my students

(29:50):
is in the hospital being inducedand having a baby and one of my
best friend's students is in thehospital because she tried to
end her own life. Because of thestresses that she was under. We
don't necessarily know thestresses our students are under,
and giving a moment of our timeto them. Whether it's taking
that time to grade that extraassignment, or just to send that

(30:12):
word of encouragement, I thinkis more important now in this
moment than any other time, anddoes more great good than we
probably realize.

Kelly, you - yeah, go ahead.

Thanks, Gina. I'm realizing, listening to you,
Becca, it's reminded me like howlong it's been since you and I
got to sit down and talk shop,so we gotta...

You don't come to cluster anymore!

...because I'm not in that cluster anymore. So,
I've moved from my literatureand writing roots to now I'm
being kind of shuffled over tosocial sciences, because that's
where food studies lives, but Imiss you terribly darling. But

(31:02):
anywho, So, there's a couplethings, though, that, again,
that you're saying here that'sgot me, thinking these, like,
kind of other thoughts. That'ssome deep stuff for us here on
the podcast. But anywho. So,like, before, when you're
talking about, what assignments?
Are we realizing that like,okay, we really don't need those

(31:25):
anymore. Like, I think that issomething that's really healthy
for us to, to sit down and spendsome time with and figure out,
so why aren't those likeassignments relevant for this
course? Why had I been teachingthem in the past? What had been
influencing my decision makingto actually put that down on the

(31:49):
paper, and then ask my studentsto do this. I think that this is
a wonderful time for thatre-imagination of how it is that
we teach. So for for the classthat I'm working with right now.
So like Gina, when you said,who's bringing COVID into the
class, I'm not necessarily doingthat. But, there's a lot of

(32:12):
activism that is very visible inour country. And that's
something that I'm bringing intomy course. So, it's a humanities
course that focuses on aninvestigation of our cultural
relationship with theenvironment. So we're spending
the whole time talking aboutenvironmental activism. But how

(32:36):
this is building off of what youhad said, Becca, about our
assignments, I'm not doingtraditional, like papers, or
research essays. We're doingmost of our work on Instagram.
Because, I had to stop andthink, well, wait a minute, when

(32:56):
our students - yes, our studentsneed to know how the academic
essay works, because that is thegenre within the academic world,
where ideas are untangled,reshaped, new knowledge is made.
But after a vast majority of ourstudents are completed with

(33:18):
their college education. That'snot how they're going to
communicate with the rest of theworld. They're communicating
with the rest of the worldthrough text messages, through
emails, but they're also doingit through social media. Now,
I'm a big fan of Instagram,because of hashtag activism. But
I also like to stay away fromFacebook, just because I think

(33:43):
it's just so polluted. And thenI don't do Twitter, because I
don't know how. (laughter) Butanyways, so what this has
allowed me to do is really stopand rethink, why is it that I'm
doing these things that I do?

(34:03):
What value are my studentsreally getting from - not so
much addressing the content, butwhat relationships am I asking
my students to have with thiscontent? But I'll tell you, one
thing that's been like frickinphenomenal is that all of a
sudden, a majority of our classhappens on our phones. And it's

(34:27):
just been absolutely delightful.
So like, I'm on Instagram, andI'm scrolling through stuff.
And, I'm seeing stuff from someof my farmer friends and some of
my activist groups that I followand then, a student's assignment
scrolls through, because they'reworking on stuff and it's just,
it feels really good. But that'sthe first thing - and being

(34:49):
totally mindful of time here,but this the first thing that
you kind of got me thinkingabout and then the other is with
late work. That's something thatI still struggle with. And I'd
love to hear what the rest ofyou think about this because
late work, while it is somethingthat we had to manage, prior to

(35:10):
the pandemic, it's somethingthat is really rearing its head
now. And I have two policies in

my class (35:25):
no late and no hate.
And the lateness kind of speaksback to what you were saying
earlier, Gina, about being lateto class, but then also, like, I
had a very strict, no lateassignments policy. But I
wouldn't say that I'm not beingadaptive. But like, I don't
understand late work, becausethe way I shape my assignments

(35:50):
is they do something so thatthey build knowledge for the
next part of the class. So ifthey're doing something that
addresses an idea, or skill thatwas addressed in week three, but
they're turning it in on week15, what happened in those in
those 12 weeks? Something ismissing there for me,

Can I offer?

Oh, for sure, go ahead.

So this is how I look at late work. So as I've
shared before, I have a chronicillness, that makes me, in

(36:41):
greater and lesser degrees,functional day to day. And that
means I have set myself up witha grading schedule where I sort
of need to be grading everysingle day. And I always think
of my policies for lateness andwork on time as assuming that a

(37:03):
student is able to perform atthe same ability every week,
throughout the semester. And thereason I do not hold them to
that standard is because Imyself cannot live up to that
standard. I have days where Iget migraines, and I cannot
function, I can't grade. And soI - and I talk to my students

(37:25):
about this, I'm very transparentwith them about about my chronic
illness. And it's actually beenan amazing tool to get them to
talk to me, and to sort ofunderstand that we all struggle,
but we all also need to beresponsible too. And that that
very careful line. So Irecognize that I can't just blow
off and not grade anything forthem until the last week of the

(37:47):
semester. And in that same way Iwould ask for them to not hold
off and do none of their workuntil the last week of the
semester. But I'm also cognizantof the fact that we are not
equally present and able tocomplete work and be a good
worker in equal measures everysingle day of every single week.
And so I always talk to themabout how, you know, there are

(38:11):
going to be times when they'regoing to get their first papers
graded and back to them within aweek. And there are going to be
other times where I'm going tobe saying "I'm so sorry, guys, I
had a lot of grading, I had twodays where I was completely off.
So I'm trying to catch up ondays when I feel better". And
I'm very transparent with themabout that time management
process and how it impacts mylivelihood with my work, but

(38:34):
also trying to be transparentwith them about how they need to
be thinking about that withthemselves too, because what
they might not have illnesseslike I do, but they have kids
and they have jobs. And so thatconstant maintenance of our time
management, I think is is reallyimportant to consider because I
feel like a lot of our policiesare based in ideas that we are

(38:56):
all well and functioning equallythroughout the semester. And I
loved that Coronavirus made ussay, "Hey, we might have
students who get sick. And ifthey get sick, we can't fail
them because they gotCoronavirus and we're out for
two weeks, we need to beadaptable and find a way to
allow them to be sick but thento recover, recover physically

(39:20):
for them, but also in terms ofour class". And I totally hear
what you're saying in terms ofnot letting things slide until
the very end and could becauseit's not manageable for any of
us. But at the same time. For mepersonally when I hear about
"zero late policies, there's nosuch thing as late". I can't

(39:42):
live up to that standard. And soI couldn't possibly ask them to.
I have asked for extensions onreports to Christine. I have
asked colleagues to move pointsbecause I've been ill and
because they respect me as aprofessional. Nobody makes a big
deal out of it. And so I talk tomy students about the fact that
like, you have to set a standardfor yourself for sure. And you

(40:05):
have to show your colleagues andfriends that you are that you
are careful and thoughtful andwant to be present. But there
are going to be times where weall falter. And we all need a
little bit of room. And so Ifeel like there's a really
careful balance there. There wasthis great article called "Your
Attendance Policy is Ablest.
AF", which I don't know if I cansay those words on CBS Anyway,

(40:28):
um, but (laughter)

"abilist as as freak".

That's right.
That Anglo Saxon word. But yeah,because there is this sense that
people are, are able to - andit's so capitalist! It's like,
"you must come to work and popin at this time and punch your
card!", you....

Did you just call Kelly part of the capitalist
machinery that he indictedearlier in the program. That's
cold! That is ice cold!(laughter)

So I want to jump in on... because... before I
forget! So Rebecca, I partlyneed to jump in because I am an
absolutely no late assignmentsperson. And I will I will die on
that flag or whatever themetaphor is...

Hill!

Hill, thank you, I will put a flag on the hill and
then die on it. (laughter) But,as Kelly and I were talking
about this, and I was alsohoping Kelly would mention his
"labor contract model" that heuses for his class, but for me -
and I think what this highlightsis that it's okay, if each one

(41:36):
of us operates differently inthe classroom, that's okay.
Because we all have to find themodel that works best for us. So
for me, I am a structure person.
But I'm also a person who if youwant to meet me halfway, I will
meet you three quarters of theway. But they have to meet me
halfway. So I don't accept anylate work. But...

Even if they come to you beforehand, Gina?

Well, let me finish what I'm saying! And so, there
are two ways that that isworkable for me. The first is
that I build in a couple ofextra assignments, and they're
always toward the end of the thesemester, and I then throw them
a few other little bones ofextra credit, not a lot, it
probably all of it togetherdoesn't add up to more than 10%.

(42:20):
But it allows them to make uppoints from missed assignments
earlier in the semester. And theother thing, Tom, is that in my
syllabus in big bold letters, itsays if you anticipate a
problem, get in touch with me,24 hours in advance is all I
ask, and I will give youwhatever extensions you ask for.
And so that's what I mean is ifI if they meet me, you know, if
they meet me 20% of the way I'llmeet them 80% of the way, and...

I wouldn't have a zero tolerance.

I mean, it is zero tolerance. If they come to me
the day, a minute after it'sdue, I'm not going to accept it.
It's for my own sanity. And thenthe other thing I wanted to pick
up on just quickly was... Oh,yeah. And I asked Kelly to talk
about the labor contract aswell. But I was thinking earlier

(43:09):
when Rebecca was pointing outthat her research area was
narrative and chaos narrativeand medical narratives. And I
always feel incredibly luckythat - my area of focus in
psychology was about physicalhealth and how people cope with
it. So all the psychology aroundphysical health. So for me, this

(43:30):
is what I'm teaching - howpeople learn coping, even in my
cognitive class, we can stilltalk about coping in an era of
pandemic and Coronavirus, andall the other things that are
going on right now. So, it'spretty easy for me to bring the
content into my class, but alsothe process, which is sort of
what Kelly was talking about. Itdoes build from week to week.

(43:52):
And so what I've been findingis, I have - a couple of the
extra credit options have beengo to the Peace Conference. So
for those listening, who aren'tfamiliar with this, NCC has an
annual multi day conferencewhere it has a theme. And this
year's theme was really aroundsocial justice, racial, racial

(44:14):
justice, and the election andvoting. And so I said, if you go
to sessions and write me upsomething that struck your fancy
or interested you write me ashort email, I'll give you 10
points of extra credit. And thenwhen they did that, because I'm
teaching two sections ofresearch methods I said, so now
turn this into your researchproject. So then, they're

(44:38):
dealing with what is actuallywhat they're actually really
interested in, because theiremails were like, Oh, I never
knew this. And this was sointeresting. And so I'm not
saying I'm reinventing the wheelat all, but it's it's the idea
that if there are these stagesthat they have to work toward,
get them to pick things thatgrab their attention. And that

(44:59):
seems to help them to stayfocused on the on the project.
So Kelly, did you want to talkabout since I've now mentioned
it three times, did you want totalk about the labor contract? I
love this idea so much.

Um, I suppose so.
And I think it's something that- Well, I know that something
that has been - that I'vebrought with me from my days as
a developmental educator, and,Becca, I love that you threw in
the dreaded C word "capitalist",because, yeah, a point based
system is capitalist. And, thatrigid calendar structure that we

(45:40):
build our semesters on iscapitalist. So I guess I should
have given you some... I feellike I'm defending myself. And I
know don't need to do that inthis setting. But that's not how
the class is set up. So I workon a labor contract where there

(46:02):
are no grades throughout thesemester. So when there's a task
that is due, like that taskneeds to be done, so that we can
keep building the rest of thesemester. And if a student is
present for that task, or not,is really up to them. But like,

(46:22):
they're not going to, you know,to go back to Gina's metaphor,
they're not going to die on anyhill. Because like, that's just
like, that'd be a real jerk moveon my part. So but back when I
was, just afraid to move awayfrom the point system, I would
say okay, to get a 100% in thisclass, you would have to

(46:47):
accumulate 1000 points over thecourse of the semester. But I
have enough assignments herethat you could hypothetically
earn 1250 points. So like, ifthey miss the midterm, they
could still get an A in theclass, which I know that some of
my colleagues would probablylike, freak out about it. But

(47:09):
even so, I found that there's awhole lot of like subjectivity,
that was kind of immersed inthat whole grading system that I
have never felt comfortablewith. And back when I was
teaching developmentaleducation,what I would do is,
based on feedback. You do work,you turn in work, and then I'm

(47:37):
going to give you feedback. Andthen that's how we're going to
learn. And then at the end ofthe semester, you're going to
put together this portfoliowhere you show me what you
learned. And then we'll sit downlike, okay, is this like,
something that you feelcomfortable doing English one
work with? And then let's have aconversation about that. But
this semester, I just went fullin on the labor contract. And

(48:03):
it's been wonderful. Nowgranted, students have a really
hard time with, with kind ofbelieving me, so they turn in
something they're like, so Iturn that in. And so like, we're
good, and I'm like, yeah, we'retotally good. And then I would
give them feedback. And thenthey'd be like, Oh, God, okay,

(48:25):
I'm sorry. So when can I turnthis back in? It's like, No, no,
you don't need to, like you didthe labor you're learning. So
we're gonna keep moving on here.
So like, that whole experiencehas just been absolutely lovely.
And if I can put somethingtogether that can be shared on
the podcast website, I'll dothat. But the reason why I went

(48:49):
like just 100% all in with nograding this semester was
because I was thinking about themental and academic health of
our students. So like, howeffing stressful is it for our
students during grading time?
Like if you look at your roster?

(49:12):
In past semesters, you see thatweeks three through week five is
like this, this academic blackhole. Like that's when most
students will just like drop offthe face of the earth. And I
share with my students, yeah,the first couple of weeks, it's
hard to find parking. Just waittill after week three, you know,
week five, there's parkinggalore. Because what happens is

(49:36):
like by week, three to weekfive, that's when the first
major assignment has beensubmitted, collected and
returned. And then that's whenstudents who are like, Yeah, I
was like an A or a B student inhigh school, they're like, Whoa,
this isn't high school anymore.
And then they start to like,freak out. And what I want to do
is I want to alleviate thatstress where I just say to them,
you just got to turn this thingin. So, going back to defend

(49:58):
myself though, lif a studentcan't just turn it in, then
there's something else that weneed to look at there. But also
like if they're not turning inanything over four weeks, and

(50:20):
I'm very sympathetic to chronicillnesses and just life stuff
like - so we haven't even talkedabout what it's like to be a
parent during this time. So Iknow of the four of us that I'm
the parent here (I'm not theparent of you, obviously).
(laughter) But holy, like, Iwant to cuss but yeah, as you

(50:44):
said that this is not that kindof thing. Like, I am just effing
sick and tired of the narrativebeing focused on just our
students only, and us beingadaptable for our students. Like
I love our students. I tell themthat every day, like when they
come into class, when theyleave, it's like, all right,

(51:06):
Love you. Bye. Okay, and thenGina says she needs to say
something.

No, I think we're both - actually, there's a
beautiful pivot Kelly on whatyou're talking about that is
something that we wanted to alsotalk about. And it's so
important, actually, becauseyou're talking you began by
talking about the mental healthand wellness of your students
and how you're kind of horse ofa different color form of
assessment, which is very BlackMountain College back in the
day. And this idea of projectbased grade lists a different

(51:35):
form of assessment, yourassessment isn't a great, it's
the feedback I'm giving you, asa means of a building in a
different form of engagementwith a class which I think is
awesome. And I'm going to try Iwant to bring a little bit of
COVID in here, because we'vebeen talking about the stress
our students are under and howwe need to adapt to that. And I
agree, Kelly, that we also needto be talking about the stress

(51:57):
that we are under. And I want toask Gina first actually, as a
resident yogi, because for thefor the people listening, I
think it's really important thatyou want them to come away from
this with things that theythemselves can be doing for
their own work life balance fortheir own mental wellness, their
own self preservation in thesekind of fraught times. And let

(52:20):
me ask you - and I'm someone who- I am, I'm gonna just curse -
I'm s*** when it comes to selfcare. And they can bleep it out
in post. Thank you, Jeff.
(laughter) I was under so muchstress over the summer as an
administrator trying to convert80% of our classes into remote
that I cracked a back molarbecause I was grinding my teeth
so badly at night. I have tolearn to process and deal with

(52:43):
my stress, and these are likethe most stressful times ever.

I'm glad this is on record. (laughter)

Yeah, it is on record. So hold on, hold me to
account and I'll go last andI'll share the things that I am
trying and Becca watches me tryand is witness to my failure to
do to improve my own mentalbelt, mental wellness, insanity.
So Gina, yogi, what are youdoing in COVID times at home to
deal with the stress of teachingin these times as well as just

(53:09):
the general stress? I thinkwe're all living - because
we're in the upside down!

Well, I'll tell you, I'm glad you're starting
with me because of the way I'mgoing to frame my answer. But I
do want to share with all of youthis quote that I ran across I
think someone put it on theirFacebook page or something by
Audre Lorde, who I think wealready mentioned in the podcast
earlier?

I spoke about I was reading her love poem.

That's right, yeah.

And so the quote is (53:34):
"Caring for myself is not self indulgence.
It is self preservation. Andthat is an act of political
warfare". And I just found thatso powerful, because I think a
lot of people feel guilty, orfeel that self care is frivolous
in some way. And people use thatold cliche that first you have

(53:56):
to put on your own mask on theairplane before you can help
someone else with their mask.
But the bottom line is, we all,similar to what we were saying
before, we all have ourboundaries. We all have what we
need in the classroom, we weretalking about that earlier. And
we all have a certain amount ofenergy that we're able to expend

(54:20):
on any one thing and if we havemultiple things asking us for
energy at the same time, thenthat energy has to be split
somehow so, by keeping ourselveshealthy as best we can then we
can continue to do the workwithout grinding our teeth down
to the nub or having sleeplessnights or, you know, name it. So

(54:44):
I said I was going to frame thequestion. So for me personally,
I am very much the sort ofperson who needs a lot of
structure in my life but alsobecause I have been so
incredibly stressed with theuncertainty of what's going on
in the world. I need to focus onconcrete activities in and

(55:08):
outside of my work life. I don'tknow if this is really answering
your question, Tom. I'm sorry, Ijust have to laugh it Kelly, you
did not get loud and angry![NOTE: Kelly had posted in the
chat an apology for getting"loud and angry in his previous
response]

I know, it's great. Why would you apologize
for that? Jesus!

Man syndrome.

We're looking at each other over zoom right now
while recording elsewhere withdifferent software. So there's
the chat going on.

So, anyway, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say the
things that we all know. Becausethey're, you know, again:
breathe, and stretch, and getsome exercise, and eat healthy.
Like, we all know that it'snonsense. But find something
that gives... it's notnonsense! But it would be
nonsense for me to leave myanswer at that. So for me, it's

(55:59):
find the silver linings in whatis going on, in the fact that we
are being challenged asprofessors, and it's going to
make us better professors in thefuture. I will just say as a
side note, because I have atemporary position I've taken on
now at the College, where I'mdealing with the diversity

(56:23):
related issues on the campus.
And that has given me such afantastic way to focus, all of
my anxiety, all of my anger, allof my sadness around all of the
social justice issues that havebeen bubbling up all year. You
know, finding pleasure in yourlife, whatever that means to
you. I have re-read so manybooks that I love, this summer.

(56:44):
Rather than seeking out newthings to read, I've revisited
old favorites, right? Soeverybody's self preservation,
and everybody's self care isgoing to be very - it's going to
be unique to them. Right? It'sgoing to be very specific to
them. But don't look at it asfrivolous or coddling or that
you're not tough enough tohandle it. Because again, we are

(57:09):
beings that need sustenance, andwe are beings that need rest.
And we need to take thatseriously. So that's my answer.

I love that you're reading old comfort books, I do
the same thing. Becca knowswhere my go twos are, it's
usually cheap, urban fantasy.
And I can lose myself in poorprose and fun action. (laughter)

That's important!

You're so dirty.
(laughter)

You know, Gina, one of the things I wanted to,
when thinking about self care, Ithink that we all - getting back
to your point about doing in theclassroom, what we need to do
for ourselves, like when whenyou say like, I will die on the
mountain for this or done thehill for this, what I hear is,
that is integral to mysustaining me through this.

Absolutely!

...and that your needs are important in the
classroom. And I was trying,maybe I didn't, I try to be
really transparent with mystudents about my own needs. So
like, when you say, I need somestructure, guys, like I need to,
I need your assignments in sothat I can grade them because
that's part of what's keeping mekind of anchored here and

(58:25):
sustaining me through thesemester. Like that should be as
respected by them. And I findthat our students are incredibly
respectful of that when when yousay it to them like that. And I
feel like this is part of whatwe've been getting out with
classroom policies, when we cantalk about why they're
necessary. Like, what the logicis to it, then suddenly, they're

(58:46):
not just these like amorphousthings that we're enacting on
students, they make sense tothem. Oh, so that policies in
place because you're gonna burnout by week eight, and I
understand that! I canunderstand burnout. And so
suddenly, then we're partners inthis journey through class and
not so much like, I'm tellingyou how to do X, because that's

(59:07):
just the way it's gonna be. AndI don't know, I I love that. And
that's what I heard in whatyou're saying.

Just really quickly, that's exactly right,
Rebecca. And I always tell mystudents on the first day that
every professor is like adifferent boss. And how many of
you have had crazy bosses, butevery professor is going to have
their own expectations and theirown needs for what they need to
happen in the class. And I tellthem exactly what you said. I
say for me, It would be too muchfor me to keep track of late

(59:37):
assignments. It just doesn'twork for me. And that's why I've
built the class this way. Soyeah, being you know, Tom
mentioned vulnerability, sobeing honest and vulnerable with
your students. Absolutely. But Iwould - Oh, go ahead.

I just think - I want to advocate for everyone
listening to this, to thinkabout that in their policies,
like one of the mosttransforming moments I've ever
had in the classroom was when astudent in the back of the room,
I was teaching it all bright inmy adult in the adult completion
program. And I'm like rattlingoff about thesis statements,
right? Because I just taught atLehigh. And everybody there knew

(01:00:12):
what a thesis statement was. Astudent in the back, loudly
says, I have no idea what you'retalking about lady. And I was
like, Oh, you know, is thismoment and then she's asking me
good questions, follow ups,like, what do you mean by that?
What does that mean? What doesthat mean? And I'm like, Oh, my
God, I'm grading her onsomething I can't explain to
her. Like, how messed up isthat? And so I think that as

(01:00:36):
educators, if we have logic andreasoning behind the policies
that we put in place, it'sreally easy to explain to
students why we're doing it.
There's, it's transparent. And Ithink the Coronavirus has made
us recognize that we we need tothink through those things. So
if we have a policy in placethat we just stick to because I
don't know, because that's whatacademic rigor is, but we can't

(01:00:58):
explain it more than that, thenthat should be something we
maybe need to like, interrogatea bit for ourselves, like, Is
that what it means to me? Soanyway, that's just, I just
think that's so useful inthinking through our own
policies, like we absolutely candiffer on those. But we also
have to have reasons behindthem.

Tom O'Connor (01:01:16):
So Becca, I've written what I think you're
going to answer. So what is youknow, you're not getting out of
the self care question. So whatis something you're doing? That
I know or not that you're doingfor self care through these
COVID times teaching at home?

Rebecca Martin (01:01:30):
Yeah, so self care for me is, I have a body
that if I don't do self care, itwill just stop working. And then
I can't like function, I can'tdo the things that I enjoy. So
self care is like become like, Ihave to listen to it. So. Okay,
so my self care thing. Some ofthem are healthy. Some of them
are not. I buy antique jewelryon eBay a lot. (laughter) Or at

(01:01:56):
least I browse on it.

Kelly Allen (01:01:57):
You buy what?

Oh, my God, antique jewelry on eBay.

Oh, okay. I'm sorry...

Oh, I love it

if I'm shown one more ring on eBay...

But, um, you know, I feel like my self care
is very much rooted in takingcare of what needs to be
addressed in the moment. So, ifI'm in pain, then I might
address that, like, it mightjust be rest and just watching
TV that's mindless, like theGreat British Baking Show.

On paper, it's what I wrote down.

I've learned so much about flours, their strong
flour and all these differentkinds of cake flour and bread
flour. Um, that is like a go tofor me. I'm revisiting old books
that I love, just like Gina isTom because I find them like a
warm, fuzzy blanket. We have alot of warm fuzzy blankets in
our house. We're going very deepinto the Hygge, that whatever it

(01:02:54):
is, yeah, scented candles, nicebath salts, like these kinds of
like physical things. I also, Ithink exercise is a good part of
self care. It's hard if you havea body that doesn't do things
well. So I have a recumbent bikethat I've been really enjoying.
It's a good way of kind offinishing the stress loop for
me. Um, but yeah, those are someand obviously petting my dogs.

That's a good one.

That's so important.

Kelly Do you have a dog?

No, I've got two kids. (laughter)

All right, Kelly, your turn.

I haven't figured this out yet. So like...

Gina Turner (01:03:36):
Doing this podcast is your self care!

Yes, it was certainly is, and I was gonna
say that. You know, and I washoping to kind of, I don't know,
get that "Awww" moment, butwhatever.

Oh, no, sorry. I stole your thing.

You so you stole my "Awww" moment. No, I'm, yeah, I
totally I haven't figured thisout yet. And as you all know, I
kind of overpack my life withstuff. And that's my fault. And
I realized before COVID hit thatit's actually kind of like a

(01:04:15):
mental illness for me where Ifeel like I always have to be
doing stuff because like, if Istop, then I'm being selfish or
something like that. But soyeah...Wow, I'm gonna get real
personal here. So I've startedgoing back to therapy, and,
talking with someone, so that'skind of helped. But like, one of

(01:04:42):
the things that I talked withher about last time was, I
realized that, like, I need tofeel good about my body. Like,
that's one of the ways that Ican - that influences my mental
health. You know, I got to makesure that my wife still thinks
that I look sexy, you know, so Ineed to get outside and I need

(01:05:06):
to be active. But I can't dothat. Because you know, I'm
teaching, I'm the board chairfor our local food Co Op, I'm
getting a PhD. I'm a parent, I'ma husband, like all these
things. And it's like, man, if Icould just get 45 minutes each
day where I could just like, gofor a long walk, or just like a

(01:05:26):
short jog, that, that does a lotfor my mental health. And like,
then I can tolerate any of thebulls***. Sorry, Jeff, that,
that the world can throw at me.
So like, it's like, 45 minutes,that's all I need. And then the
school year started, and mykids, like the local school
district here, requires a lot ofonline learning for our

(01:05:46):
children. And I've got a secondgrader and a fourth grader. All
of a sudden, they're mentalhealth is collapsing. I walked
past our daughter's room like acouple weeks ago, and she's
whimpering as she's looking ather laptop. And she's just like,
Dad, I don't want to do thisanymore. And you know, and I'm
like, what the sorry, Jeff withthe f***, and, so like, this is

(01:06:10):
something that, I can't just belike, "Well, okay, we're all in
this together. So we're allgood!" No, you can't do that.
So, I have to stop. So now, mywife and I, we each have to
spend on average two hours aday, working with our children.
So like that 45 minutes that Iwanted, I don't have and I just

(01:06:31):
lost an hour and 15 minutes. Andthis is where I was talking
about before, when I was on myloud, angry rant, about, you
know, like, we got to focus oneach other as well. And each
other's mental health, becausethere's so much... and here's
where that capitalism, I thinkmight be coming in, where we're
focusing on our students andretention. You know, it's like,

(01:06:53):
okay, you know, we just got toget you know, our students to
these midterms, yeah, I getthat. But okay, can we stop and
also make sure that we get eachother through midterms? Because,
that's something that has reallybeen missing from the the
greater discourse. So yeah,going back. I haven't figured it
out yet. I'm working on it. I'mdoing my best

Love is a radical politic. Kelly, I'm with you. I
just teach in second wavefeminism written in the 60s and
70s. And I said, Guys, they wereonto something. Loving is
radical. Yeah, I love that, andI think you're right. Hygge
is... so there's a secondcomponent. So this is the
Nordic, Scandinavian, Danishidea of cozy it was real big in

(01:07:43):
like, 2016 2017 right afterTrump got elected. And
everyone's like, I need I need ablanket to hold me tight. You
know, because...

Ikea's still selling the mats Tom. So it's
still a thing.

So, I think I opened by saying this, that I'm
crap at self care. And that,like you, Kelly, I feel like
I've been losing that. Like,even when I try So Hygge .was
going to be my self care wasthat I decided that like that,

(01:08:14):
in quarantine I began someserious cocooning, but that then
itself became the opposite ofself care, because and Becca's
gonna know this, because I setmyself all these projects. And
so I was like, I'm gonna makeour house cozy. So I'm gonna
pick all these warm colors toput on the walls. And then every

(01:08:34):
weekend, I'm painting for 40hours. Like, it's like epic
fail, but then afterwards, andso here's my self care, and I'll
keep it brief. And since we'reclearly going to have the
warning by this podcast thatwe've that we've cursed in it,
although if we decide to bleepthese out, I request the Harpo
Marx kind of [Tom does hornimitation] that's a terrible

(01:08:56):
Harpo Marx (laughter) but thesound effect is out there. My

self care is this (01:09:01):
it is the opposite of what you're doing,
Kelly, in the sense that whenyou said I need to look sexy for
my wife Becca's thinking Tom letthat one go five years ago.

Oh stop!

But it is because I've been like
heard this word Doom scrolling?

No (laughs)

It's like on your phone reading the news? Because
the other thing that happened isI went home for quarantine. And
even when I was working, I'dhave the news on mute, you know,
and closed captioning waitingfor what was the next dumpster
fire, right? And like thatitself became unhealthy. So I'm,
here's my self care. Every nowand again to give myself a
break. Like I'm recognizing thatlike I'm putting the paintbrush

(01:09:41):
down. I'm turning the news offand waiting until the morning
until I've collected myselfafter sleep to do it. I'm still
standing by Hygge. I do threetimes a day. I look back and I
go our home is now so beautiful.
And it makes me feel good. SoI'm letting myself know that
it's okay that the work andstress that I caused myself is

(01:10:02):
now worth it. And then I'm likelaying it down. And I'm trying
for quiet time. I'm not givingmyself... I stress eat. So
especially after you know, 40minutes of Rachel Maddow,
suddenly the ovens at 400 as I'mmaking myself happy by getting a
ham and cheese sandwich, and I'mlactose intolerant, so everyone
pays for that decision.

Well, on that note... (laughter)

But give yourself a break.

Yeah, everybody, just give yourself a break. I
mean, I think that that's a takehome from what we talked about
being in the classroom to is,students need to give themselves
a break. The professors need togive themselves a break, in our
personal lives. we need to giveourselves a break. And, so I
think we will leave it there andwish that all of you listening,

(01:10:54):
if you're still listening, cangive yourselves a break. And
hopefully we will talk to youagain soon.

We will!

Absolutely thank you so much.

Thank you guys.
Thank you, Kelly. Thank you,Becca. Thank you, everyone for
listening. Imagine thePedagogy-a-go-go song is playing
in my head right now. But wehope to be back with you in a
couple weeks. We want to talksome social justice issues. We
want to talk election andpolitics. There's a lot going on
we want to talk about so we hopeyou come share in that too.

(01:11:36):
Hey, thanks for listening toPedagogy-a-go-go recorded in the
Center for Teaching Learning andTechnology at Northampton
Community College in BethlehemPennsylvania. Our podcast
daydreamer slash show runner isKelly Allen and Pedagogy-a-go-go
is produced by Jeff Armstrong.
If you've got any questions,please send them to
Pedagogy-a-go-go at gmail.com.
Our social media handle is atPedagogy-a-go-go and you can

(01:11:59):
stop by our website at wwwPedagogy-a-go-go dot com for
copies of podcasts, transcripts,guest assignments and other
useful tidbits. Keep in mindthere are no hyphens or dots in
any of the above web addresses.
Until next time, this is Ginaand Tom saying Take care and
teach well

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