Perspectives of the Mad Scientist with Erin Reilly

Episode Transcript
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Gina Turner (00:00):
1234 Pedagogy a go go... Pedagogy, go go go
Hello and welcome toPedagogy-a-go-go a podcast about
college faculty sharing whathappens in their classrooms and

why. Th (00:19):
Perspectives of the Mad Scientist, and we are your hosts
Gina Turner and Tom O'connor.

Tom O'Connor (00:35):
Well hello Gina, spring has sprung and so we find
ourselves in the second episodeof our spring season for 2021 of
Pedagogy-a-go-go. How have youbeen?

Good! Good! I have to say it was so fun talking to
Andrew Mackintosh last time andhe and I were emailing about
something work related but heasked me again about the
musicians that I had mentionedin our episode and so I sent him
a link...

The Native Daughters, right?

Our Native Daughters, yeah.

Our Native Daughters, that was it.

Yeah, and I was so pleased that he got a kick out
of it! He said that they weremore bluesy and harder edge than
he was expecting and so I wasreally - you know, as someone
who is such a music aficionadoand someone who has so much
expertise in the area of music,I was glad to get a stamp of
approval!

I have many similar stories about - one of
my greatest badges of pride - Ialso for the record had an "Our
Native Daughters" moment as theyshowed up on my Spotify
contemporary folk playlist and Iwas like "this is great and I
now know who they are!" Andandrew is - there was a time in
my life when I considered myselfreally on top of what was

(01:53):
happening in the music industryacross many genres, when I was
an undergraduate in college Imanaged the record store. My
High Fidelity days and I've losta lot of that, and Andrew is so
on top and has such a deepknowledge specifically of hip
hop and and I was so proud thatI had heard Lizzo on the radio

(02:14):
just as she was breaking and shehad this old school hip hop feel
to much of her work and Ibrought her and Andrew had not
heard of her yet, and it waslike the pride I carried with me
as he listened to it and it wasright before an outdoor, you
know back in the pre COVID dayswhere we could have outdoor
events with students and he wasDJing for the event and sure

(02:37):
enough cued up Lizzo and and Iwas like "yeah that wouldn't
have happened without me!"

Ah you scooped Andrew! Congratulations!

That was a big moment

Yeah I miss that because he would DJ before
theater events and...

Oh he's insanely talented, and I play a game that
you guys can't play at home butwhen we had him here his
backdrop was his vinylcollection some of which was
facing us and I'm like "I knowthat, I know that, I don't know
that, I'll have to ask aboutthat..." So, yeah, it was
wonderful. Actually, I met withhim and one of our art faculty

(03:17):
and I was staring at - it wasright before the holidays and
i'm like "A Very SpecialChristmas 1" and she looked at
and she went Keith Haringbecause he is a concert artist
who had done the artwork for thealbum and so it was... we can't
help it he inspires all of us totry to demonstrate our knowledge
which is what makes them a goodteacher

Wait, did you say Keith Haring was from Kutztown?

Yeah, originally.

Oh, I didn't know that!

He worked mostly out of New York obviously

Yeah, yeah

Yeah he hails from Kutztown initially, so when I'm
on my my random antique huntingfinds I always hope I'm gonna
find some Keith Haring pieceworth $20,000!

Yeah I bet! It has not happened yet.
Well, the most famous personfrom where I live, Lambertville,
actually it was across the riverin New Hope, Pennsylvania, but
it was Leon Redbone lived there!So, I was really excited when i
found that out! Unfortunately hepassed away fairly recently

(04:17):
fairly recently

Yeah, that's right, and also home of the
Pennsylvania impressionists, soyou said Redbone and there was a
there's an Impressionist withthe last name Redfield, I was
like we thought we were goingdifferent ways so..
Well, we find ourselves with aSociology twofer actually, I'm
very excited to say that ourguest is Professor Erin Reilly

(04:41):
who also teaches Sociologyclasses here at Northampton
Community College. She's comingup on almost 20 years here at
the college and has had anincredibly storied career
leading students oninternational trips many of them
service learning trips which I'msure we're going to dig in to in
today's episode. Butimportantly, she's also deeply

(05:02):
involved in our "Culture ofCare" here, which is really
about knowledge around thespecific supports our students
need and helping them alongtheir journeys. She is a deeply
gifted teacher, an empathicindividual and I imagine it's
going to be a soul stirringconversation today.

Absolutely. I'm just so glad to get to see my
friend Erin today, because Imiss us cracking each other up
when we see each other in thehalls.

And so Erin is someone who I've been in all
these meetings with and who I'veheard so much about, but we have
not found ourselves workingclosely in my time. So today's
episode will be a success. IfErin leaves it going, you know,
when my friend Tom, that's myhope.

And hopefully, she still thinks that I'm her
friend. (laughter)

I can't imagine a universe where that isn't the
case. Without further ado, weshould bring her in.

If you had just one word to describe yourself as a
teacher, what would it be?

Well, Erin, welcome to Pedagogy-a-go-go. We
are so incredibly happy to haveyou here. I need to tell you
that you're our second guest ina row who teaches Sociology
courses here at NorthamptonCommunity College. And I will
say as one myself is also Lehighalum. So we are on the social
sciences roll here on ourpodcast. To kick us off. Can you

(06:35):
tell us a little bit about ayourself, but also the classes
that you teach here, and what itis about your discipline that
makes you excited to teach it?

Erin Reilly (06:45):
Sure, thank you, first of all, for having me. So
yeah, I've been here at NCC for,I think 19 years, which is
bananas! I started at theMonroe. It's the longest I've
done anything. I started at theMonroe campus where I taught
for, I don't know, 10 or 12years, I want to say, and then

(07:06):
came down to the Bethlehemcampus. I've been doing study
abroad with students. And Ithink that's probably the thing
that really juices me up themost is to have those
experiences with students. Youknow, out in the real world or
just experiencing new thingstogether. I think that's really
empowering. And that'sdefinitely been among the most

(07:27):
rewarding things that I've hadthe opportunity to hear
opportunity to do here at NCC soI teach as you mentioned
Sociology. And the classes Iteach are Principles of
Sociology, of course, AmericanEthnicity, which is our version
of a Race and Ethnicity course.
We do Sociology of Families,Cultural Anthropology, sometimes

(07:50):
Deviance, sometimes SocialProblems. And what I love about
Sociology, why I think it's justa perfect fit for me, is because
I don't see the world in blackand white, you know, I don't see
the world in absolute terms. AndSociology is all about the gray.
It's all about perspectivetaking. And so, it it just fits

(08:12):
the way I think. But I think,today in 2021, in such a
polarized world, where peopleare happy to debate but they're
not necessarily happy to thinkthings through or empathize or
take other perspectives, I thinkthat's one of the things that's
most rewarding and importantabout sociology right now is

(08:35):
encouraging people to takedifferent perspectives and
encouraging people to see theworld through multiple
perspectives.

That's really exciting. Sorry, go ahead, Tom.

Oh, no, I just, you said something, and I would
die if I didn't follow up on it.
Because you're so right. As youwere speaking, we are so
entrenched in partisan divides,and even radical divides between
left to right, rich, poor, youname it. How do you help
students with that perspectiveshift, teaching them to embody
other perspectives?

Well, I mean, that's what sociology is. So I
get to, I have the benefit tosome extent of hiding behind the
discipline, or just, you know,instead of it being, you know,
your crazy liberal professor,you know, insert name, it's,
well, this is what sociology is,it's about seeing the world
through different perspectives.
So I get to use that, I guess.

(09:36):
And so that's been reallyhelpful. If somebody comes, you
know, into the class with aspecific perspective. It's okay,
well, this is the class abouttaking other perspective. So
what's another way that we canlook at it? Or, you know, there
are theoretical perspectivesthat we learn and we dig pretty
deep into them in the first fewweeks of an Intro to Sociology

(09:57):
course. So then it's "okay,well, what would Functionalism
say about it, what wouldConflict Theory say about it?"
So, you know, I joke abouthiding behind things. But it's,
I mean, Sociology is literally aframework for thinking about the
world, in multiple perspectives.
And then another thing that'sreally helpful about Sociology
in a time like this is not onlyis it about these theoretical

(10:20):
frameworks, but then it's aboutdata. Well, this is what we
think, this is what I'm hearing,you say, why don't we check the
data, let's see what's actuallygoing on. And we can talk about,
you know, the conflict,sometimes that exists between
what we assume and what's real.

I was gonna say, it's so exciting to hear you say
all of those things in theframework of Sociology, because
I just happened to have ameeting with a student before we
recorded today. And she's astudent in my Research Methods
class. And this was exactly theconversation that we were
having, which is that Psychologyis looking at tendencies of

(10:58):
people, but it's not a black andwhite explanation of people
always do X, and therefore Y.
It's not prescriptive. It'sdescriptive. And so of course,
Sociology and Psychology have alot in common in those ways. And
that was the other thing wepointed out is that research is
continuing. It's iterative. Andso we look at the data, and then
that might raise more questions,and we gather more data. So I

(11:21):
love that you highlighted thataspect of of sociology as well.
Definitely.

Well, that just brings to mind Gina, the times
that we've been able to, oryou've been able to pop into my
classes.

Yeah.

And that's always so exciting. Because, again,
it's another perspective.

Yeah, exactly. And it's really fun. And I think
it's helpful for the students,because I've also had students
in my Psych classes who havetaken Soc. and they say, "Oh, my
gosh, the terms are similar."And I say, "Yeah, because these
are sort of different layersthrough which you can look at
the world." And then I have toalso point out, you mentioned

(12:00):
the study abroad, and study awaytrips that you've taken, and
some of those have been servicetrips in, for example, going to
New Orleans, which I have alwayscompletely admired, and maybe
you can say a little bit moreabout those trips and how those
came about.

Yeah, sure. Um, in, gosh, I want to say 2009, might
have been the first time we wentto New Orleans after Hurricane
Katrina, to help rebuild, and weworked with an organization
called lowernine.org in theLower Ninth Ward. And even
though we were there a coupleyears after the storm, I mean,

(12:40):
it was still like a warzone verymuch. For the first few years
that we were going roads, werejust, I mean, they had craters
in them, there was no maildelivery, schools were still
closed, you know, years afterthe fact. And so, you know, we
were still doing demo work, wewere still doing mold
remediation, we all got sick thefirst time we came home, because

(13:03):
we inhaled so much mold. I mean,just the the state of things was
just really hard to believe. Imean, you know, we might read
about it, but to live, it issomething different. And that's,
of course, why these experiencesare so powerful for students.
Yeah. Because as powerful as itis for us, you know, to be

(13:24):
learning about something to belearning about structural
racism, and then to see itfirsthand, right, to learn about
poverty and about infrastructureand abandonedment, but then to
see it firsthand. It's just, youknow, there's no comparing the
two.

Right, right.Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm gonna move
on to our next question, whichoftentimes, people find the
hardest question of all, whichis: the question is, if you had
just one word to describeyourself as a teacher, what word
would that be?

Yeah, that's a tough one. So I'm going to say
there's a pre COVID word that Iwould use to describe myself
and, and, you know, a presenttense to describe myself. So pre
COVID, I think it would havebeen mad scientist. And that's,

(14:28):
it's one of the things I loveabout teaching because you hit
the restart button every 15 or16 weeks. So you try things out,
and you see how it works. Andthen you talk to students about
it, and you get feedback. Andthen if it tanks, you try again,
you know, so we're just madtinkerers. And that's how I

(14:49):
would have described thisposition this job, you know, a
year ago even, but now, I see itmy I see myself as an advocate
right now. And I don't knowwhat's going to happen when we
get back to whatever the newquote unquote normal will be,
will I be a mad scientist? Orwill I continue to lean into

(15:11):
this advocacy role? I thinkit's, I think it's an open
question. But um, yeah, justadvocating for students, did you
know that you're entitled tothis? Did you know that we have
counseling? Did you know? Youknow, did he know that we have
academic coaches? Did you knowthat we have tutors, you know.

(15:34):
And obviously, these are collegeservices here at NCC through the
Learning Center through thecounseling department advocating
for students who are houselesswho need food? I mean, you know,
I just feel like, right now, thepriorities for me have shifted.
And, you know, and so I thinkthat's reflected in the way that

(15:54):
I'm approaching classes.

Yeah, you know, Erin, it's, it's funny, I was
actually I wanted to talk alittle bit about this
regardless, because not justyour sociological background,
but many of the courses youteach, including Sociology of
Families, American Ethnicity,are closely paired with our
Social Work program, that's partof their program map, and then

(16:16):
you've also taken the serviceoriented trips. So as you're
talking about being a madscientist, sidebar, and mad
scientist, I am the crazy fillin the blank, liberal arts
professor, and those sounds,those sounds pretty close.
There's some intersectionalitythere, I think. But then you
also talk about the new advocacythat COVID has asked of us. And
I was curious as through thelens of someone aligned with all

(16:38):
these students on the SocialWork track and as a sociologist,
how you're differently seeingthe needs of our students. And I
wonder if that's an either/orquestion or a both/and? I mean,
will there be a space post COVIDfor both mad scientist,
Professor Reilly and and alsoAdvocacy Erin?

I think that's a great question. And I mean, time
will tell. But I guess if Ithink about where my interests
have evolved, over the years, Ithink advocacy has become a
bigger part of my teaching. Andyou know, this has just blown it
up. COVID has just blown it up.
So I think there's definitelyroom for the two. And, you know,
I went to the Achieving theDream conference a couple of

(17:20):
years... Gosh, was that a yearago? or a few years ago? We're
in a time warp, right?
Seriously? And, you know, thetheme of this conference was
essentially like, what are yougoing to do to support your
students who have so much goingon in their lives and who are

(17:43):
really living the structuralinequality and the class
inequality that we talk about inour classrooms. And so that was
always something that was ofinterest to me. And that just
kind of crystallized it, right?
How higher ed is just completelyset up for a system that doesn't
really match the people thatwe're serving, you know, and to

(18:04):
just to have the opportunity tothink critically about that. And
now that we're in this, youknow, moment of a national
emergency, that just to me, thatjust seems to be what's most
important.

Well, you perfectly queued up my next...
Oh, sorry, Gina, go ahead,please.

Well, I was just going to quickly say, you know,
in a way, we've had to be madscientists in order to turn
ourselves into advocates for ourstudents, right, in order to
think about how we're balancingwhat the needs are of the class
and the rigor of the class. Andthe information that we want to
convey in the class, with thestudents ability to take in that

(18:46):
information and, and really, tomake it relevant to them. And,
you know, and again, I think wecount ourselves lucky, because
we feel like what we're teachingis almost life and death, you
know, in a way, it's reallyteaching students skills of
being in the world, andinteracting with other people in
the world. So, Tom, you had aquestion, and then I had a

(19:09):
question.

This is the way it's supposed to work. And the
first I''ll begin my question bysimply saying, I love that Gina,
because what you just suggestedthis idea of the mad scientist,
and in my mind, when I think ofwhat that might be, it actually
connects with a lot ofpedagogical concepts, like
Universal Design for learners isthe mad scientist, the person
who's willing to step outside oftheir comfort zone to do

(19:31):
anything to look differently atour students, their needs, the
way they learn, to try to helpbest help them recognizing that
that's an individuated approach.
It can't be a one size fits allfor, for really any classroom
pre COVID. But COVID has, Ithink, really brought that to
the fore. My question, Erin, wassimply that you are already kind
of addressing the way that thepandemic of the last year has

(19:53):
changed our classrooms and theway we teach. And you began to
speak towards actually my nextquestion, which was about how
the events of the last year, notjust COVID. Obviously, there's
so much more than that, howthey've impacted your
discipline. But also, if youcould change one thing, either
about what Sociology is focusingon and talking about right now,

(20:15):
or and this is kind of where youwere alluding to maybe, perhaps
how higher ed needs to bethinking about things
differently, you know, whatchange would that be? And why?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's been so much
societal change. So obviously,curriculum in sociology has to
be updated, like content has tobe really updated to accommodate
that. And to acknowledge that,you know, we can't be teaching
inside of a bubble. And so, youknow, in terms of the tinkering,
speaking to the mad scientist inus, the tinkering that I've

(20:49):
done, the tinkering that I'vedone has mostly been on, on
bringing those issues into theclassroom. Right, updating the
readings, updating activities,films, just to acknowledge the
times that we're in and to getus thinking about them, and it'd
be taking multiple perspectivesabout them. And so I see that as

(21:11):
being the major change in aclassroom in a sociology
classroom, at least is, youknow, there's so much going on
in the world, how do we how dowe bring that in, in a
meaningful way? Because, youknow, there's a lot and to bring
something in in a cursory way,you know, it's not necessarily
helpful just to, you know, tipyour hat to it, and to not
really dig into it. It's justnot very meaningful. So that's

(21:34):
been, I think, the disciplinaryif you will, based challenge.
What's the other part abouthigher ed?

Yeah, higher ed in general. And I think you're,
you're speaking to both at thesame time, because once you I
mean, what you are curricularchange is structural change to
to higher ed. But seeing theneeds of our students that have
been exposed in the last year,maybe is, Are there things that
you'd like to see higher? Eddoing in general? Are there
specific to our communitycollege or are more
systemically?

I think higher ed, in general needs to just take
the time to acknowledge thepeople that we serve. I mean,
period. I think that's in theclassroom. I think that's out of
the classroom. I think it's interms of financial aid offices,
its Records Office, you know,across the board, we need to be
asking ourselves, are weactually serving the people that

(22:25):
we're serving? We're offeringservices, but are we serving?
are we serving the people thatwe're supposed to be serving?
And you know, I'm not immune tothis, I have to ask myself that
every semester as well. So youknow, it's not about singling
out specific offices on anycollege campus, I just think
every institution of learning,period, but higher ed, in

(22:49):
particular, we really need toacknowledge who we're serving,
we're casting a wider net, andthat's a good thing, you know,
but school - college wasdesigned for elite people a
really, really long time ago,and the structure of that has
not changed. And so I do thinkthat COVID, maybe in some ways,
it'll be an opportunity, becausewe've had to change so much so

(23:11):
fast. And you know, higher ed isslow to change. In some ways,
it's bureaucratic in that way,you know, maybe we will be open
to rethinking some things.
Because maybe some of thesolutions are different versions
of things that we're doing now,hybrid classes, for example,
seven-week classes, morefour-week classes. We know we
have to change this archaicfinancial aid system, where

(23:34):
money can only be delivered oncea semester. You know, we it's
how are students going to beable to take those four- and
seven- week classes if money isonly dispersed at one point, you
know, so there's a lot of, Ithink, procedural things that we
could be doing better, and weshould be doing better in higher
education.

Yeah, I mean, in some respect, this reset button
that has been pressed by thepandemic, hopefully will serve
us going forward. Because likeyou say that the surprising I
think, to many people, althoughpeople who had been working
online, prior to this, you know,recognize that it can be a valid
way of teaching, but thesehybrid classes have been, I've

(24:18):
heard many, many people, facultyand students say that they
really like that model, forexample. The other thing you
said that really struck me wasabout constantly updating
information. And I have to talkabout this student again, it was
a really great conversation withher. And she's a non traditional
age student, she she shared herage that she's 50. And she's

(24:39):
currently taking a class on...
oh my gosh, I don't remember theexact class, but it has to do
with women in politics. And shesaid, "I've lived on this earth
for 50 years, and I had no ideaabout this structural sexism
that I've been breathing mywhole life. "And she says, "What
do I do now that I have thisinformation?" And thinking about
the events of last summer, Iimagine your American Ethnicity

(25:02):
class is like a moving targetbecause it's caused us all to
think about everything sodifferently but at the same time
we're also dealing with being ina pandemic and stuck in our
homes and homeschooling childrenand etc etc and I wonder if all
of these balls we're having tojuggle and taking into

(25:27):
consideration all of these needsis a recipe for burnout? Are you
doing anything for yourself totry and balance all of these
demands while still trying to bethe incredible responsive
professor that you are?

So I feel like that's a two pronged question I
mean I think your conversationwith your student brings to mind
conversations that I've had withmy students right? "I didn't
know this!" And some of themfeel really discouraged, and
I've tried the angle of "wellthis information is designed to

(26:06):
be empowering because now weknow" but everybody is so
weighed down right now that the"now what?" just seems... I mean
it probably would always seemhuge but right now when people
are having a hard time lookingfor tomorrow maybe i'm just
speaking for myself here!

You're not!

It's hard to look to tomorrow so it's hard to
think about how to change.

Yeah. It's exhausting!

It is. And so when we have these lessons about
structural sexism, structuralracism, how the system is
rigged, etc etc, you knowstudents want to know "now what"
but none of us really have theenergy right now to get that
far, so I think that's somethingthat I have my eye on in my
classes, it's something that I'mgoing to need to do better once

(26:54):
I'm out of this - out of thisphase and in terms of my own
burnout? I don't know.
(laughter)

The most honest answer!

Yeah so, I have a kindergartener and so he goes to
school two days a week and inFebruary, he wants to school
three times because of theweather.

oh my gosh...

So it was just...
and you know our students aregoing through this, too, and
with fewer resources many ofthem, and with less privilege
many of them, and so I thinkabout how hard it's been for me
and my partner, and we're lucky.
So the burnout is real I guessi'm at the point in my career

(27:39):
where I'm fortunate where I'mestablished so I can have
boundaries so I guess that's theonly answer I have.

Yeah. I mean, that's really good to point out
is, I think that we can forgetthat we have a little agency,
you know, and then there arethose of us who are luckier to
be established in our positions,but yeah. I mean, it's probably
an unfair question because we'reso in the midst of it all, we're

(28:07):
still fighting the fight!(laughter)

Sometimes the story of how we work our way out
of that paper bag is animportant one to tell even if we
don't know what the light lookslike on the other side. I just
had a terrible They Might BeGiants song spring to mind and
some deep cut fans willrecognize exactly what I'm
referencing and I won't say anymore than that. Erin first of

(28:31):
all, thank you for justacknowledging in your last
answer the privilege we have forthose of us speaking today and
that acknowledgement of it,right? structures much of our
advocacy.I think a lot aboutthat because it's been a dark
year and it's easy to kind offall into like, I don't know
what tomorrow is going to bringand I don't know how I'm going

(28:51):
to get the energy and themental space you know to face it
but countering that is the factthat we are still secure in our
jobs we're able to to be remoteif necessary. We're able - we're
still well positioned to helpothers in many ways and so when
in all of our discussions thatthat are built around class

(29:13):
structures, race, genderdisparities, systemic sexism and
racism like that's - it's justan important thing to keep at
the forefront of our minds. I'mgoing to begin this question
with a story I have to sharebecause Erin I know you've been
involved with the "Culture ofCare" here which is kind of the
word we're using which I thinkis is intended to address some

(29:37):
of the needs right making surethat the services we offer fit
the students just like the madscientist in the classroom so I
wanted to tell the story of alunchbox, and what it takes
these days. And so there is afabulous staff member at the
Monroe campus who works closelywith some of our student
workers. I know a student workerwell. He's been here for a

(30:00):
while. He takes the bus everyday to the Monroe campus. He
came in at a developmental leveland he had persisted. He is
consistently a success story,the kind of student that we want
to support. And we have been.
And he works these, you know,student support jobs, manning
desks and stuff to sustain hiscareer here as a student. And

(30:24):
because of the weird mechanismsand machinations of living
amidst COVID, and spaces, he wasworking like these long days,
wanted to bring a lunch couldn'tleave the desk, he was manning
and just simply asked, could Iuse a refrigerator. And because
of where it was located, and howmany people were in that space,

(30:44):
was told no. And this staffmember said, okay, and went to
the bookstore, and used herbudget card, and simply said,
"I'm going to spend $10, to getyou a lunch card and an ice pack
so that every day that you come,you have what you need, so your
food stays here, and you can doto do the job. And if anyone

(31:04):
kicks that up the ladder, that'smy gift to you." And too often
it ends up having to be that Imean, I know, I've given the bus
fare to students who need it ifthey didn't have a free extra
pass at the bookstore, you know,to provide to them. And I tell
that story, because that staffmember, as far as I'm concerned,
is one of the heroes workinghere. Who takes that interest in

(31:25):
care. But that also points to Ithink, some of the changes, the
lenses we need to put on. Sowith that in mind, can you share
a student story about either anindividual student, or perhaps
it's something you're seeing inmultiple students, that speaks
to the current moment we findourselves in, and that you feel
other educators would wouldbenefit from hearing and that

(31:49):
might be a success story. Or itmight be a student that ended up
on on the ropes, in the rocksbecause the supports weren't
there for them. But a story thatyou want others to hear?

Yeah, sure. I mean, there are so many stories. So I
guess I would start there, youknow, whether you're looking at
in your classroom on campus, oryou're looking out on on your
little boxes on Zoom, you know,I go through this exercise where
I'm like, I know what you'redealing with. And oh my god, how

(32:21):
are you here? And okay, we'vebeen talking about this. And you
know, I'm like, I'm tickingthrough the class, kind of
identifying in my mind whatpeople are going through. And I
always have to stop to remember,these are just the stories I
know about. And every time I gothrough this exercise, it just

(32:41):
always takes me back. Becausethere are so many stories that
are so profound, but those arejust the stories that I know
about. And I feel like that isreally powerful. It's really
powerful. For me, it's reallycentering for me, I guess I
should say, but, you know, Imentioned earlier that with
COVID I have been more of anadvocate. And so, you know, I'm

(33:06):
just checking in on students alot more than I ever did before.
"Hey, I noticed you missed aquiz. Is everything okay?" Not
"Why did you miss the quiz?" Youknow, just, a "hi, how are you?"
And I started doing that rightafter, you know, we went remote
in March. And I've gotten, youknow, I have no way of knowing

(33:32):
if it's helped students, youknow, persist. But I have one
example of a student who misseda quiz. So I sent him such an
email, and he said, "Oh, man,thank you for reaching out. You
know, my brother was shot threedays ago, and my cousin was shot
and killed five days ago. Myuncle died of COVID yesterday.

(33:57):
You know, other family membersare in the hospital." And I
mean, that was a week of hislife, right? I mean, and somehow
he had the wherewithal topersist, right, and to finish
the class and to do really,really well in the class. Right,

(34:21):
completely unbelievable. I don'tknow if he was planning to reach
out to me, I don't know if he,you know, I don't know he's a
good student. You know, he hashe has the toolbox. Talk about
the lunchbox, right. He has thetoolbox. But, you know, I think
it's some have the wherewithalto continue and some don't. And

(34:42):
sometimes we play it out like,oh, some students are so strong.
Well, I think some students justhave the wherewithal in that
moment to come back or to finishand some students don't. And I
just think, I think they needgrace. I mean, I think we all
need grace. I need to givemyself grace right now because
I'm not doing everything that Iwould like to be doing at the

(35:02):
level that I wish I was doingit, you know, but I mean we all
deserve grace right now and Ifeel like that's where we can
come in as faculty, you know, tobe empathetic and to understand
the situation like it doesn'tmean that we're changing
standards, or that our classesare not as difficult which I do

(35:23):
hear rumblings about amongcolleagues and I think it's an
interesting conversation thatmaybe we need to have. We're not
- being empathetic isunderstanding where they're
coming from or trying to, right?
We're not being sympathetic,we're not feeling sorry for them
so that we say "you don't haveto do that assignment, oh you
know what just don't worry aboutit." It's just, you know,
granting grace in a moment wherepeople need it.

I mean I think that's addressing the issue of
burnout, right? Is to recognizethat we're human beings
interacting together doing thebest we can and giving ourselves
that perfect word, that grace,and talking about the stories of

(36:09):
the students, I mean that wesaid unbelievable but you know
sadly it's not unbelievablebecause these are the stories
that our students are living andI was thinking a little bit
about how I am sharing more ofmy own stories with my students
and being they're - I meanliterally they're in our homes

(36:30):
now, you know, and they're intheir homes, in these little
boxes, and dogs are barking, andkids are coming up and saying
"hi" and spouses are walking byand partners and sisters and
brothers! And also I'm actuallydoing an assignment with my
students this semester for thefirst time which I had never
done before and, just brieflyit's my health psychology class,

(36:53):
and I asked them to do a"personal health intervention".
So for eight weeks they'retrying to change a health
behavior and I said I'm going todo it with them because I need
to do something because thispandemic has been rough on me!
So i you I picked a little thing- I'm going to try and jump rope

(37:14):
regularly

Wow! So cool!

Yeah it was something I was doing this
summer so anyway, so it's sixweeks of written -kind of
almost journal entries and i'msharing my journal entries with
them.

I love that.

It's feeling like we're just all people, you know,
in this together. Like, I heardat a meeting the president of
our college had last week and hequoted something he had seen on
Facebook about we're not all inthe same boat. We're in the same
sea...

Right.

Some of us have yachts, and some of have
dingies, etc etc, butrecognizing that we are all in
in this same sea I think is partof that grace, absolutely, it'
just beautifully said. Do yu feel like there is an assignme
t that - you know, as part ofyour advocacy/mad scientist,

(38:14):
o you feel like there's an assinment that has bubbled up in thi
past year that you feel like knd of does all those things, hit
those marks, it still has te rigor, it's still doing what
you want it to do, but it'shaving an outcome that is
pecial or interesting or il

To be quite honest I haven't changed very many of
my assignments, and here's themad scientist reason behind it.
Now is not a time foruncertainty, now it's not a time
for things to be unclear, I'mjust kind of using what has
worked for me in the past. Ihave language written up on it,
I know how to organize it inBlackboard, and so I am trying

(39:00):
to just make everything inBlackboard super super linear,
and so I've been recycling manymany assignments. I've been
doing more journaling withstudents, like short things. And
that's been helpful. I feel likewe're more likely - I'm speaking
for myself - I have more time tosit down and read a short

(39:21):
journal reflection without beingtaken in a different direction,
than to read a paper. So it'sbeen helpful for me to help me
get to know the students, andit's fitting with my limited
attention span right now. Sowe'll see if that's working, but
it's nice it's one way to get toknow students for me because

(39:44):
what I would normally do is justgo to class for a few minutes
early, and just walk around theroom and say "hey how are you
doing? do you have the textbook?
how are your classes? what areyour taking? what's your major?"
I mean, we just get to knowstudents that way, you know?
Every day, just walk around andsee who wants to talk. Yeah, and
it's a lot harder to do thatnow. So these little, I call

(40:06):
them extra little criticalthinking assignments, because
students then have to integratesomething from the reading
materials, you know, in into thejournal into their writing, I
should say. So that's been anice way to just connect with
students a little bit. But I gotto say, I haven't I haven't
rewritten the playbook rightnow. It just can't.

I hear you, I also did not rewrite my playbook, and
as a matter of fact, did exactlywhat you just said, which is
just to try and make sureeverything's streamlined. If
anything, I've added moreinstructions, I'm creating short
videos, which I had not done inthe past for for online classes.

How has that been?
Have you found that interesting,helpful?

I find it helpful for me, maybe it's my craving
interaction with other humans,the idea that it's a message in
the bottle to students! But Ihope that they're finding them
illuminating. And it's part ofthis my doing the assignment,

(41:17):
I'm showing them when I'mwriting in the assignment and
talking about my rationalebehind it. So I'll let you know.

That connects. So I just heard the story literally
in the last 24 hours, and Iloved it. And Erin, I want to
just applaud for a second, thefact that one of the things that
you're saying is is now is notnecessarily the time to reinvent
the wheel, we just need tore-configure in our minds how

(41:47):
the wheel was going toeffectively hit the road and
travel forward. So if one of themost effective things we were
doing was that initial time inclass when we were going around?
How do we produce that in aremote environment? Right. And
so like trying to, you know, Idon't want to say repackage the
same, but we know what wasalready effective. And how do we
retain that. And one of themistakes that I think, and I

(42:10):
could say this as a member ofthe administration, as well as a
faculty member who teaches,which is that I think that in
the initial COVID, when we werelike, oh, shoot, everything's
going to change, we're going tobe 90% online, people without
online teacher training, youknow, we need to get them as
trained as possible, we need torecognize what we're going to

(42:32):
need. And so there was a senseof messaging out, but we need to
do everything differently,because this is a new world. And
we probably got that wrong. AndI want to I want to really
address the fact that we alsoneeded to be saying, "Let us
help you transcribe what youwere already doing into this new
medium into the mediums that wewere using." So I'm really glad

(42:55):
you said that because like itseems like people want to be
like, "well, I'm doingeverything new and it's going
great!"

Right.

And in realisty, it's the person who says "This
actually this has worked reallywell for me 90% of the time, I
found a way to do it that's alsosuccessful here." So a story,
just quickly, was that a personhad course copied from a blended
online course where they hadrecorded some lecture into an

(43:21):
asynchronous course right? Andthey taken everything out. But
on one week, they left theirvideo up from that class that
they had recorded and posted forthe benefits. And so all of
their asynchronous classes hadthis random video pop in a
couple of weeks in that happenedto begin with a description of
the paper product and talkingthrough it and fielding some
questions. And then like adescription, a little bit of the

(43:43):
story that was being used forthe paper. And that video
without being assigned, beingthere by accident ended up with
like 120 views. And there wereall these individual posts
saying that was so great, youknow, so like I've just said,
happy accidents are alsohappening in this crazy time.
Gina, were you going to come inand say something?

I think Erin was gonna say something...

I think I was just gonna thank Tom for
acknowledging that. I mean, Ithink that in higher ed and not
just here at NCC but you know,in the groups that I'm involved
in on social media, there's beenall this talk about all this new
technology and all these bellsand whistles and I don't doubt

(44:29):
that many of them can bevaluable. But I think there's
also some - from a student'sperspective, like how many new
things does a student have to doin their first semester in this
brand new format? And I kind ofmade a conscious decision to not
embrace some of them right now.
It doesn't mean that I won't butjust, I don't know kick it old

(44:52):
school. For a while.

I am in complete agreement with you, Erin again,
also as someone who had taughtonline for so many years I'm
like "those classes wereactually robust valid ways of
teaching so why do I suddenlyhave to infuse five pieces of
technology?" And again, somethings I have been excited to

(45:17):
incorporate like using thewhiteboards during the online
session and then saving thatwhiteboard into the Blackboard
shell after class has been anice tool for just as a kind of
a low tech example really!

Right, but helpful.

Exactly and that was a privilege I will say for
those who had taught onlineprior to COVID and who had built
out online asynchronous that wasa huge leg up and that was also
the other area where we droppedthe ball. We couldn't require
every faculty member to take thereally intensive four week
robust training that we demandof asynchronous in this

(45:56):
shortened summer when everythingwas topsy turvy and we were
asking to teach courses that hada half asynchronous component.
So I think honestlyacknowledging that. And I was
one of those - I had actuallydone the training which was
incredibly helpful to me, but atthe same time, I had not done it

(46:17):
before and so there was a senseof "I want to pull these
technologies in", and I had tospend more time building out. So
for those of you who felt thatstruggle who hadn't taught
online I just want to say thatwe here at the podcast are with
you too!

Solidarity!

Yeah. So that was that was a personal struggle I

had. (46:33):
this is one of those very introspective questions where we
ask you to in a very Brene'Brown way to be vulnerable! What
do you see as your biggeststruggle as a teacher, and how
are you working on improving andgrowing in that area? And that
can be in the short pass term,in terms of the last year,
certainly something that I canthink of many struggles as a

(46:55):
teacher. I've lived with somesince the very first time I
walked into a classroom.

It's evolving right? And I think it's a good
thing that it's evolving, ourchallenges are evolving, it
means we're getting morecomfortable and more confident
and hopefully we're learningmore and more as we go. You
know, I think my biggeststruggle as a teacher today is
that there's more that I want todo, but I just don't have the

(47:25):
wherewithal to do more rightnow. It goes back to the
boundary setting for self care,the reality on the ground in my
home with an only child who hasbeen home, like alone for a
year! Who needs a buddy, youknow! And now we're also
kindergarten teachers on top ofit! I just don't have the

(47:47):
wherewithal to be as innovativeas I as I wish I could. So my
biggest challenge right now isas much as, you know, five
minutes ago I was singing like"yes! keep it simple!" that
doesn't mean that somewhere inthe back of my head I don't wish
that I were. I mean I wish thatI were exploring some of these

(48:07):
ideas that I have that I justdon't have the wherewithal to do
right now.

I think what makes those of us who have that
insecurity about being a goodteacher - that's what makes us
good teachers, right? Because weare constantly casting in our
mind, what is of value that Ican put into this, and feeling a
little guilty if we can'tconstantly creating the world's

(48:33):
best class session every singletime we, you know, either
literally or figuratively walkinto the classroom!

Yeah, this has been hard on the perfectionist in me,
and honestly I don't think Irealized how much of a
perfectionist I was necessarilyuntil all of this this hit. So
there's your Brene' Brownvulnerability lesson, right? I
definitely had to do thatintrospection and catch some of

(49:02):
that and, you know, push backagainst it a little bit.

I got yelled at this morning by my wife because
I found myself with like an hourlong break in the day and she
caught me pacing. And that is mymother in me that always needs
to be doing something. And i'mjust kind of built that way, and
in those moments there is adisjuncture because I also feel

(49:30):
like I'm totally out of gas,that the chamber is on is on
"E". And so my my lack of selfcare means I pace, and then get
yelled at by my wife.

it's so interesting how it's contradictory like
that, right? I just find thosethings to be really interesting.
I'm sorry, Gina.

Oh no, that's okay! You mentioned of course that
you're your little boy's an onlychild, and I was an only child,
and so for me the pandemic inmany ways suits me. Because I'm
used to being on my own, and andliving in my head, and not, you
know, not feeling a need tointeract with other humans. But

(50:10):
of course, as a grown woman, Iprobably should interact with
others. And so one of the ways,one of my aspects of self care
has been to take classes, youknow, just for fun, classes here
and there. And I always lovebeing a student again, because
then it reminds me of what Ilike and don't like about

(50:31):
individual, you know, classes.
And then what I might be doingthat is, you know, that I
wouldn't like if I were astudent, so can you think of any
ways in which experiences youhad, as a student, have informed
the way that you teach or haveeven, you know, inspired you as
a teacher or been cautionarytales? As a teacher?

Hmm, so the first thing that comes to mind is
actually one of my mentorsrecently passed away, and I
definitely see her in myteaching style, which, I don't
think it was planned that way.
But after a few years, I wasable to look back and see it.
Which is pretty cool.

That's great. That' a real testament to her.

Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. She was wonderful. And
yeah, she was just very laidback. Obviously smart as a whip.
But, yeah, just very in tune,very caring. So I'm kind of
stumbling over this, because Iguess it's a longer story. When

(51:43):
I was an undergrad, I majored insociology. But I also majored in
environmental policy. And as acruel twist of fate, I had to
minor in economics, which Ihated. I mean, it makes sense,
right? You're gonna study theenvironment, you gotta know how
the system works. But it wasawful. For me, I hated it. I was

(52:07):
the only, you know, person inthe economics class, raising my
hand, like, "there is no silentforce of the market. That's you
people, right?! A humannconstruction!"

Oh, God bless you.

And so, I had a couple economics professors,
who, again, I didn't want to bean economics minor, but they
were the ones who took me undertheir wing, so to speak, I was a
TA for one of them. I was aresearch assistant for another
one. And they knew I didn't buywhat they were selling. And I

(52:45):
feel like that has - but theywere so empathetic and
understanding. And, you know,they made it real to me, and
they made it applicable for me.
And, you know, we teach so manyGeneral Studies students. And so
I think that's something thatthey maybe passed on to me,
right? I mean, a lot of thestudents taking a Psych class or
a Sociology class, don't want tobe there. "Why do I have to take

(53:08):
this class," right? It's justchecking a box. So having had
professors be so empathetic tome, and so invested in my
success when I was straight up,not into what they were all
about.

Although in a way, you probably kind of excited
them again, because you weregiving them kind of like you
say, with sociology, you werealready a sociologist, you were
giving them a different lens oneconomics that they don't
normally get to, you know, kindof volley with in their classes
with their econ majors. So thatwas probably exciting them.

I never thought of it that way. It's interesting.

It is fun. I got to talk about this student that I
met with again today, becauseshe pushed back a little bit on
some of the materials that weuse, I won't go into the whole
story, and it caused me to likekind of wake up and go, huh,
yeah, let me explain thisassignment and why I do feel

(54:14):
like this is a value to you. Andso kind of reminds me of why I'm
doing what I'm doing, and evenkind of helped her to

understand (54:24):
"Oh, okay, so now I see the value in this." But
yeah, being pushed sometimes canbe really, really engaging for a
professor. So having studentswho push us I think can be
really exciting.

It's true. That's true. You nailed it.

I want to interrogate - and so don't feel
like you have to answer this,but I'll begin by sharing
because I played this rolefrequently on like, I like
telling the stories of mypratfalls, those times that I've
just fallen flat on my face inthe classroom, as learning
experiences, and you talkedabout having kind of this really
valued teacher in your past whohad - there was a, I don't want

(55:01):
to call it a revelatory moment.
But a moment when you foundyourself embodying a part of
that within your own classroom,I had the exact opposite
experience my first semesterteaching where I had as an
undergraduate student, I took acreative writing class, and I
love creative writing. And I didnot respect by instructor, I

(55:24):
felt like he was far too in lovewith himself that he like,
couldn't pass up the opportunityto make a good joke. And like
was putting on more of a showthan he was actively present in
terms of listening to thestudents stories. And when I was
teaching, and I taught my firstclass at Lehigh University,
before I even took my firstclass as a graduate student,

(55:45):
actually, because I taught at8am, Monday morning, and was a
teaching fellow there. And I waspardon of my language
piss-terrified in that classroomin a three piece suit with my
mouth going dry three times. AndI overcompensated. And about
like, three or four weeks intothat semester, I found that I
turned into that Professor thatI was putting on this

(56:05):
performance to keep the studentsentertained, because I couldn't
risk you know, doing a JimmyStewart impression, and trying
to get them engaged throughputting on a performance through
getting them engaged throughasking good critical questions
of the material. So I had tocourse correct and redefine who

(56:25):
I wanted to be. And it might nothave been my idols in the
classroom. It certainly wasn'tthis person who I thought it was
to be. And so it helped me onthat process a bit. Where were
you in your teaching? Was therea moment you thought of yourself
first as a teacher in theclassroom and had kind of that
empowered moment? Like, oh, wow,I can do this. And I like doing
this. Was it that moment thatwas that happened relatively

(56:47):
early in your career? Or is thatsomething that you found
yourself growing into?

Um, it happened really early in my career, but
boy, did I make some gaffes! No,I mean, I've got plenty of those
if you want to, if you want totalk about it. But I, I was at
Lehigh in the sociology master'sprogram. And something happened
as we know, things happen. Andsomebody dropped out, leaving

(57:17):
NCC high and dry and they neededthree sociologists in a
heartbeat. So I got a class andtwo of my classmates got a
class. And really, you know, thefirst day, I was so scared, I
was so nervous. And I know itcame out. I mean, I know it came
through. And I made a decision.
Like, they can't see like this,like they're gonna be like, you

(57:39):
know, it's like a shark andbloody water, whatever that
saying is. Right, I felt likethey could totally smell the
fear. And so I just made adecision, like, okay, here it
is. And then that semester, Idon't know, midway through, I
just knew that it was somethingthat I that I really liked doing
and then I thought I had thepotential to like to do well,

(58:03):
you know, and I got hired like afew weeks later for this job. So
I, you know, I had only taughtlike one and a half classes I
think at NCC before I got thisgig. So my road here was super
quick, I guess super short. So Ididn't have...

Meant to be in the long run, 19 years later!

Carolyn Bortz our VPAA called me mid career a
while ago, and I was like, Who?
Who me? And then I did the math.
And yeah, I guess here I am.
It's weird, you know?

Your story reminds me - I think the moment I
realized I was a teacher, and Iwas like you, Erin. I was
terrified. The first time I wasin an academic classroom, I had
done training back in my firstlife as a corporate person.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, yeah. So I knew I liked, I've always liked
telling people things. So I knewI liked that. And I did go to
grad school knowing I wanted toteach, but I felt like I had to
be you know, not show fear andbe very prepared. And have all

(59:21):
my ducks in a row. And then Ithink it was the second class I
taught when I was in gradschool. And I was talking about
child development and theirability to understand depth
perception and that kind ofstuff. And I didn't have the
video, but I was explaining tothem this video of a baby

(59:42):
watching - it was objectpermanence! A baby watching a
little train, go behind ashield, and then it doesn't come
out the other side and thebaby's eyes get really big when
it happens. And it totallycracked me up as I was telling
them I was like, "you should seethis baby!" And I had another
student in the front row who wasjust in hysterics, like, I think

(01:00:02):
he was laughing at me, because Iwas laughing so hard, but we
just could not stop laughing.
And then the whole class waslaughing. And I thought, Oh,
that's it. I don't need to be(*sound effects indicating
rigidity*). I actually just wantto laugh with these people. And
have a good time.

Erin Reilly (01:00:21):
I think it's so interesting that you said that
because that first semester, Ihad just turned 26, I was still
in graduate school, and I lookedeven younger. And like, I didn't
know, I didn't know that Ishould be nervous
professionally, I didn't. Iwasn't nervous about tenure,
because I didn't know anybetter. I just didn't. So you

(01:00:46):
know, being thrust in thesituation with a couple of days
before the semester startedstill being in grad school,
doing it on the side, I just, itwas very real. You know, I was
just very me in the classroom.
And I never thought to doanything otherwise. And I'm
really grateful for that turn ofevents, because I would have
overthought it if I had thechance, but I didn't.

Gina Turner (01:01:06):
Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. When I came to
NCC, I thought, oh, maybe Ishould, like be Professor Lady,
and like, buy a jacket. Then, Iwas just like, no!

Tom O'Connor (01:01:19):
I will embarrassingly - this is
actually a good segue to Gina'sfavorite last question that she
will ask momentarily, but I willembarrassingly admit that before
I when I first found that I wasgoing to be teaching English
classes and had been acceptedinto graduate school at Lehigh
University, I went to everythrift store in a 25 mile radius

(01:01:40):
and bought every suit jacketwith elbow patches that I could
find that was within like twosizes of me. It filled the
closet.

Fantastic.

I still enjoy wearing elbow patches when I
can.

Just keep a pipe in the pocket.

Yes, right.
Meanwhile, if I dress up forclass, if I dress up for work,
that's - I don't feel like me. Idon't feel - that's something
that it took me a while tolearn. Like, just, yeah, it's
interesting how we feel the mostcomfortable and how I think
we're most effective when we'recomfortable. And for me, that
means in you know, jeans andcorderoys.

Yeah, yeah. And at the same token, we have
colleagues who are just dressed,you know, basically to the
nines, you know, just completelyon point, because that is how
they feel most of themselves.
Yeah, and I think that thestudents are going to smell that
right. They're going to, they'regoing to, as you had said
before, they're going to smellit in the water. If someone is
not being there, they'reauthentic self, at any end of

(01:02:45):
the spectrum.

There's some discipline crossover too, to
return to a guest we had a fewepisodes back. It wasn't in that
episode, but I met and waschatting with him about a
separate issue. But ProfessorSamuel Chen, who we had, as part
of our special four part serieslast semester, you know, we had
the back and forth aboutdressing the classroom and how

(01:03:12):
we wish to be addressed bystudents, you know, and being
the crazy liberal artsprofessor, I'm Tom, and he
talked about, "I'm ProfessorChen until the moment that you
graduate, and then you're notallowed to call me Professor
Chen anymore. I'm Sam." And it'sbecause within the, you know,
within political science, wherehe teaches and worked and has

(01:03:32):
had a storied career, you know,that's very important. And so
teaching that decorum as part ofthe classroom experience, it was
kind of an enlighteningexperience. And I felt like,
Nope, that's not gonna work. Forme, I'm still circling up the
desks and try to make everyoneas comfortable as possible.

Right. Right. Same.

Recognizing that that is a very privileged
position as as as a white man inthe classroom and that's a whole
other thing in terms of addressand dress within the classroom,
and the perceptions of studentsas well as you know, faculty
colleagues and stuff. So just toreturn to, to privilege.

Yeah, that was what I was gonna say, Tom, it does
open kind of a can of worms whentalking about you know, the
perception of authority in theclassroom

For Sure.

That's another podcast Yeah. So Tom warned you
that this is my favoritequestion only because I always
change the wording of thequestion, which is guilty
pleasures, and then I have toalways say you should never feel
guilty.

That was a very Seinfeld delivery. "You don't
need to feel guilty. guilty, notguilty."

So what is it something you'd like to share
that brings you joy that youdon't think maybe people would
know about you?

Yeah, so I - my favorite breakfast is Diet Coke
and a chocolate chip cookie.

That's great!

Mwwwah!

And I miss - for those of you at NCC you know the
big cookie in the cafeteria!

Oh yeah!

Tthey are just fantastic and they're warm and
they're soft and i really missthe big cookie!

oh god

oh my gosh you know what I miss? Speaking of the
cafeteria!

There's emojis popping up on our screen as our
showrunner is sending you loveand applause.

On the soup bar they have chicken tchoupitoulas
soup -

I love chicken choupitoulas!

I miss it so much!

i know i love that! It was it like on Wednesdays or
something

Yeah yeah exactly! I loved that and the taco bar
but who doesn't love a taco bar?

Who doesn't love a taco bar? Yep so my first thing
on my to do list when we getback is to get that big cookie
and an ice cold Diet Coke and tohave breakfast maybe with you
fine folks!

Absolutely! Absolutely! If they have the
soup bar open i will just havethe chicken tchoupitoulas soup
for breakfast!

I say when we're finally back, we celebrate
Diet Cokes and chocolate chipcookies for everyone.

I'm here for that!

Tom, you haven't weighed in on your favorite
cafeteria treat.

I buy like four different 24 ounce coffees, so
that - the show alwasy seems toreturn to my poor physical and
mental health , I'm terrible atself care ,do exactly the wrong
thing I drink coffee throughoutthe day eat a large meal and

(01:06:56):
then snack to 11 o'clockwatching TV. This is why you
know I'm a 40 year old with thebody of a 65 year old.

Well I think one of the words of the of the day is
empathy so empathy for ourchoices no matter what they are
whether it's cookies forbreakfast, chicken tchouptoulas
for breakfast...

Another nerd deep cut just quickly because I love
it - back in the heyday ofcartoons in the newspaper
everyone - obviously calvin andhobbes wonderful but I was a
Berkeley Breathed man, I was aBloom County/Outland/Opus fan,
and one of my favorite snapshotsis a character, Steve Dallas

(01:07:47):
(stand in for Berkeley Breathedwho wrote the strip) goes to the
doctor and the doctor looks athim he says "Steve, your body is
pooh" and I've often as I youknow consider my life choices
and the relative lack ofexercise, I said, if my doctor
honestly you know had an honestconversation with me it would

(01:08:09):
run along very similar lines

Well you are speaking my language - five year
old humor! I am all into thosejokes! There's lots of poop talk
going on around here! And onthat note...

On that lovely note! Erin it has been an utter
delight - it's always a delightto get to talk to you

so good to see you all, thank you for having me

I know it's a real treat, Ican't wait until we're
all together in person again oncampus

Like he said, we should party, we should
celebrate.

Totally party! Multiple cookies!

I'll bring the cookies yes!

Yay!!! Pedagogy-a-go-go.... Pedagogy-go
go goSo that was such a pleasure to
talk to Erin today what a funepisode of our podcast what a

(01:09:09):
fun guest!

I said it would be soul stirring and I stand by it!
My soul is stirred. Justlistening to her speak and talk
about her students and thechanges she has wrought and
moving from a mad scientist toan advocate for them in
difficult times, I'm inspired !

Yeah she always inspires me to be more
empathetic. I mean I think ityou just see how much she wants
to connect with students. Youknow she mentioned briefly at
the beginning that she and Ihave collaborated a couple of
times coming to each other'sclasses and it was such a
pleasure to see her in action inthe room and how much her her

(01:09:52):
students really respond to her.

And respect her to well I would imagine and so this
is the longest amount of timeI've had getting to really have
an intimate conversation withErin, about her teaching and her
practice. And if I had any,here's what I imagined her
students think about her becausethis was my read is that she
can't help but be anything lessthan 100% genuine, authentic,

(01:10:17):
and our students read that. Shestrikes me as as fearless,
passionate, inquisitive. Andwith a deep held belief in what
she does, you know, she spokeabout, you know, we kind of
began with that conversationabout opening our students up to
right now and which isn'timmediately felt need in our in
our nation and globally, theability to empathically embody a

(01:10:41):
different point of view to thinkabout problems and people
differently and to embracedifferent perspectives. And as
she was talking about that, shewas later talking about students
who found their success in theworld and other classes by the
toolkit that they had kind ofput together. And Erin is in her

(01:11:01):
sociology classes that sheteaches. She's teaching the
toolkit, she has given them thetoolbox that will make them
better students, better careerindividuals, better, better,

Better citizens of the world exactly!
citizens of the world...

Say great minds, Gina.

And the other thing that I'm going to carry with me
is the way she talked abouthaving grace, both for our
students and for ourselves. AndI think that that's a hard thing
for us to remember, especiallyfor ourselves. I'm always trying
to advocate for ourselves asteachers, to keep ourselves you
know, as mentally and physicallyhealthy as possible so that we

(01:11:42):
can be those scientists andadvocates and coaches and
leaders and models for ourstudents. But, but having the
grace to give ourselves a breaksometimes I think is really
important, too.

Yeah, that word, I thought about when as soon as
she used that, I thought, well,you could have plugged this into
her answer about self care andwhat she's doing to take care of
herself in this time, herpresence in the classroom, her
self and identity in terms ofboth giving herself a break, but
learning to approach ourstudents and their experiences,

(01:12:16):
as well as our fellow faculty,colleagues. And yes, our
administrators were not alwaysthe bad guys with with grace.
And I felt that grace today Iwant to title this episode, The
Diary of a graceful, graceful,mad social scientist, I know it
will be vetoed. But that's how Ifelt, you know, this, that's who
she was. I mean, I think sheembodies that grace, call it

(01:12:36):
authenticity. But also just anamazing practice in the
classroom and giving yourstudents you know, she's
changing lives one, yeah, oneone individual student classroom
at a time,

Fueled by Diet Coke and a big cookie.

I love it.

I could not start the day with a hit of sugar from
a cookie. And that just showshow we are each unique and
special individuals,

Weirdly enough, and I always use movies. And so
the person I thought about wasAndy Kaufman, you know, who, who
found grace in a way later inhis career and you know, and
and, and when he knew that hislife was nearing its end. In one
of his last performances, hetook the entire audience out for
milk and warm cookies

Milk and cookies.
And because he could not imagineany gesture that embodied kind
of the human condition in a waywhich was which was part of what
made him a genius so I don'tknow why. I don't know if Erin
will appreciate the Andy Kaufmancomparison or find find any
hidden meaning in it. But that'sthat's where my my weirdly
trained brain went.

(01:13:43):
Well, cookies were involved so.
So Tom, I think it is time forme to put on my psychology hat.
And because you keep talkingabout how you are woeful at self
care, and

oh, gosh, I know I'm hard on myself.

You're hard on yourself. So I'm going to offer
you my services as your littlewellness, you know, fairy
godmother.

Tell me more I asked cautiously and
trepidaciously.

I shared my own little personal intervention
project that I'm doing with myhealth psychology students, I'm
going to try and jump roperegularly again...

For the record, I imagined you in the Rocky kind
of cloak that he wears with thehood.

No, we'll be luck if I take off my pajamas!

Leave me my mental idealized images of you hard at
work with the Rocky trainingprogram and music pumping in.

Well, the thing is, I asked my students to make it
small, right because of course,any behavior change has to start
small. It doesn't have to beearth shattering. Maybe there's
one thing maybe Erin inspiredyou to give yourself some grace
- maybe there's one little thingthat you can think about doing
before we meet again to recordour next podcast.

All right and I don't want to be alone in this I
think for anyone listening Ithink that clearly I imagine the
value of your students seeingthis assignment. I love an
assignment that, you know, Imean literally the work of the
assignment is changing an aspectof their lives for the better.

It's changing their lives but if they don't change
their lives they can still getan "A" on the assignment because
they're learning about how hardit can be to change a behavior.
But they're learning the skillsthat they might be able to use
in the future to change thatbehavior.
Yay.

What i'm hearing, Gina ,when I set my task this
Oh that was bad,that's that is a groaner and a
goal minute though it may bewhen I inevitably fail to some
you know to complete it in someaspect that I can still get an "
" on this assignment. I likehe sound of this! but I will gi
e it a - no, I apologize for saing this awful pun - I almost s

(01:16:04):
id punny which is literallyhe worst word in the human lang
age, but I will give it the olcollege try.
half.

But that is all we can ask. Wait but you didn't say
what you're gonna do?

Oh you can't put me on - I don't think I can I am
not prepared to be put on thespot like that!

All right fine but...

I feel like iIwill come back I want to choose
something that will legitimatelyyou know provide a boon and help
in my life

Okay fair enough

So I will seek my own balm in Gilead and come up
with something and I will tellthe story of it's either wild
success or equally wildspectacular failure when we
return.

That sounds good and I will also report in on my
attempt at jumping rope.

I'm immediately imagining myself as Bill Murray
as I hope at some moment youknow like this - has a student
ever said with this instructionyou know I'm baby stepping and
I'm doing the work

Well you will be the first...

oh I am already the first

...who requires - because I know what you're
talking about - it requires youroping yourself to the mast of
the boat in order to callyourself a sailor!

i'm in! You know what, I'm gonna dream big. Gina!

Good good! Not too big though, not too big,
realistic!

Realistic!

All right I wish you grace and I wish you luck
Tom!

Namaste! Until next time.

Tada! (and Tom silly singing)

Hey, thanks for listening to Pedagogy-a-go-go
recorded in the Center forTeaching Learning and Technology
at Northampton Community Collegein Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Our
podcast daydreamer slashshowrunner is Kelly Allen, and
Pedagogy-a-go-go is produced byJeff Armstrong. If you've got
any questions please send themto Pedagogy-a-go-go at
gmail.com. Our social mediahandle is at Pedagogy-a-go-go

(01:18:20):
and you can stop by our websiteat www Pedagogy-a-go-go dot com
for copies of podcasttranscripts, guest assignments,
and other useful tidbits. Keepin mind there are no hyphens or
dots in any of the above webaddresses. Until next time this
is Gina and Tom saying take careand teach well.

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