Michael Truilo Returns! (Part 2) - USL's Pro/Rel Plans, CWC & More

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hey guys, back again with part two of a Trillo interview.
This one's gonna be all soccer talk. The first episode,
if you didn't see it, was about Wathune Cookman Baseball's
Swack championship and run to the Tallahassee Regional at the
College World Series, so definitely check that one out. You
get to see his game winning home run call in
that episode, so I definitely suggest you check it out
if you haven't. This one's gonna be all soccer all

(00:33):
the time. We're gonna talk about Premier League, a little
Siria Bundesliga a little bit. That's my blind spotted middlely,
we talk jerseys, we're gonna talk why nobody cares about
the Club World Cup, and then we really dive into
two things. The Soccer Tournament, that's what it's called. If
you don't know what it is, definitely watch this because
you're gonna want to, because it might be the most
fun I've had watching sports all this year outside of

(00:56):
the Super Bowl, of course. And then we really get
into USL's attempt to have a promotion relegation coming to
their league in the next couple of years. So that's
what we're gonna really dive into this. One goes on
for a while, so we decided to split this into
two parts. So I'm gonna bring Mike in now enjoy
part two. All right, Now, we're gonna shift over to
something I don't get to do nearly enough on this show,
and that's talk soccer. And I don't do it because

(01:17):
I don't I'm not as tapped in as I am
other sports. I don't always have someone to bounce the
ideas off of, and you know, it's not always easy
to carry those topics, especially in you know, the world's
game where there's so many things going on. So Michael's
agreed to tap in on that. We touched on it
briefly the first time I had him on, and if
you haven't seen that, go check it out because that's
more like the background of him as a broadcaster and
what got him to this point. And we touched on

(01:39):
soccer for a while. So let's just the only thing
I want to recap on that from the first episode.
Give us your soccer identity, what are the clubs you support,
what are the reasons for that? Everyone knows mine because
a few times I do touch on it. But let's
get them up to speed on yours all right. Well,
Orlando City is the big one. Was a season ticket
holder for over a decade when they started in twenty
eleven until twenty twenty one when they finally my brother

(02:04):
finally moved away and we weren't going to as many games,
so we've fired let them go. But I still go
to a couple of games every year. I got to
figure out when I'm going this summer. I've been to
a game this year either.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
So other than that, in the Premier League, I used
to be a Man United fan. You see the Wayne
ruond Ney jersey in the background as signed Wayne Rudy jersey.
That was a gift for my dad. Don't really follow
them much anymore. My main team in the Premier League
right now is Everton. I've liked Everton for a really
long time. I like them, you know, just the team

(02:38):
that's kind of hanging on, never been relegated, always finds
a way to survive at the bottom. And they're opening
a brand new stadium this year and I hope I
get a chance to go someday. Jumping around to some
of the other European leagues, I don't follow them at
all as much, but Setia in Italy. I get Juventus

(02:59):
from a friend of mine who grew up loving Juventus.
But other than that, I kind of follow the Milan
rivalry ter and ac Milan Bundesliga. I really like Bruceiadortmund
and one of the places I really want to go
is a Bruce Adortmund game at Signaliduata Park, one of
the best atmospheres in the world. I'd love to go

(03:20):
experience a game there. Spain don't really have a team,
France don't really have a team. So yeah, that's my
soccer following background. Other than that, I played growing up
here in Daytona Beach, played for the Orber Beach Soccer Club.
I coached for the orb Beach Soccer Club at a
youth level when my brother was coming through the system,
and I was a Class six referee for a number

(03:44):
of years before my sports broadcasting commitments forced me to
hang up the jersey recently. So that's my involvement with
the Beautiful Game.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
So I think we touched on this briefly last episode.
Are you also a part owner of man? I did
as myself, Yes, so that happened. I think I think
I'm four right, now I've struggled for easily a decade
on settling on a premier league team. That is my
answer currently because of the ownership. I actually picked up

(04:15):
my first man U kit this week. I went on
a little soccer jersey eBay, anything I can find for
a good price. That was you know, fit me and everything.
So like, I got a few things coming my birthdays
next week, some kind of treating myself to a few things.
But AC Milan in Italy is my number one team
that is in Orlano city outside of this country. My
grandfather was in their youth academy before he came to

(04:36):
this country, so that is a that was the default
reason there Juventus because of Boffoon back in the day.
So I don't mind. I'm not a big second team guy.
That is my one rare exception I think would be
would be you know Vents, it's it's a big gap,
it's AC and then way down would be Event. It's
a significant drop. But to tie this back into our
Cookman conversations, Brian Harvey at Epathon Cookman, huge Man City fan,

(05:02):
and we're we're at these baseball games. They go three
hours sometimes more. You talk about some stuff and you know,
we'll talk soccer from time to time, and I mentioned,
you know, I've never settled on a team. So he
gave me like the you know, growing up it'd be
like the click here to see what Harry Potter character
you are. He basically had me take like through him.
It wasn't online or anything. He's like, what.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
The what you know?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Football? Basketball, baseball?

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Teams?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Do you do you support? And you know, I'll try
to kind of mold your personality on what team I
think you should follow, and we kind of feill somewhere
between Arsenal and Everton and I both those are both
teams I've I've peaked at. I do follow enough, but
those are the main ones. But are Orlando City of course?
Italian national team and American national team? Uh when when

(05:45):
things aren't hitting the fan with them? But I think
there's a.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Lot going on right now with the US men's national team.
And then one last night as we're recording this, in
the first round of the Gold Cup overtridded out of Tobago.
But a lot of people are not happy about who's
playing for them and who's not playing for them.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, the biggest you know, talk a Cimlan. You know,
Christian Polistic not playing with the national team.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
That is. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
If you listen to the Landon Donovan Tim Howard podcast ever,
the Unfiltered Soccer, you know, they've not even had a
lot to say about it lately, and that's actually been
entertaining because those are those are two guys that are
very well respected. Their their opinions carry weight to me.
It's it's worth the time listening.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
To you guys that have both played for Everton as well.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, definitely, that's definitely that's I rock in Everton, Jersey
for sure. That's one that I would uh that I
would get in the future before we get to like
we're gonna kind of bullet points. You know some of
the major leagues who won a couple of teams that
went down I want to highlight too. I've been curious
and I should have told you about this. Did you
catch any of the Soccer Tournament in the past week

(06:49):
or two? Are you familiar with this?

Speaker 2 (06:51):
TST is just electric? I love following it every year.
It's funny because the basketball tournament, which is the sister
to it, it's the same company that runs it.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
And I believe it's older right that came from.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
The basketball tournament came first. I don't really care as much,
but seeing like all the like creator teams and the
teams that send representatives and all that stuff, and the
social media hype around it, it's really fun. I'd love
to get out there one year. The problem is it's
always like during baseball tournament time. Yeah, so I don't
think unless they push it back a couple of weeks,

(07:24):
I don't think I'll ever get a chance to get
out there. But it's it looks like a ton of fun.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah. At a friend shout out to Cody who actually
went out to North Carolina. I don't know if he
stayed for the whole time. I think he stayed like
the group stage weekend, you know, just saw everybody play.
I couldn't help. But like so to the basketball tournament,
I've watched it in the past. There was a year
that a team built out of Central Florida went pretty far,
so I followed them. They had some like Florida Florida State,

(07:49):
Miami UCF guys like Keith Clinton, a UCF legend, was
on that team, and I enjoyed that for what it was.
But I also enjoyed the Big Three. There are other
versions of basketball. If you know where to find him,
you know you and get that. Last year I only
watched it because of Pat mcfee' team. Hundred percent admit
that this year I watched every single game I could
get my hands on that I was free to watch.

(08:11):
That is men and women because on top of everything,
the men did. Oh yeah, Hope Solo played in the
game for the first time in over a decade, so
that was incredible to see. But the you know, Sergio
Aguero is on a team. There's a Wrexham team, Hashtag United.
That's the next team I'm looking to buy into.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Okay, so yeah there's Hashtag. I want to talk about
Hashtag United because that's how I found out about TST
because I follow them on social media and I watched
their YouTube stuff and that's how I figured out it
was a thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
So they also in line to buy shares in that.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
I don't think I have the money right now to
put into it, but it's something I am looking forward
to do potentially. But I do want I want to
KIT eventually.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
I want some merch on the on the waiting list
for that because it's it's you can buy them in
England or you can buy in the UK as America,
you gotta go through another hoop. So I'm on the
they're eventually they're gonna email us back. But yeah, I
problem with.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
The merch is like the shipping fees are ridiculous, so
I don't really want to get in.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
I bought one for my nephew because he for his birthday.
He just wants soccer. Doesn't even care if the teams,
he just wants more soccer jerseys. I found one on
eBay that he's in. He's nine, so I found a
nine year old one, and yeah, I was thought I
was paying nineteen dollars and then with the transfer rate
into being like thirty eight dollars, so I was like,
all right, well at least whatever. But yeah, that's why
I haven't bought one for myself either. But I agree,

(09:31):
that's another team that I enjoy. I enjoy what they're
about and their story has been great. But yeah, this whole,
the whole thing, Like I can't help but think with
the smaller field, the no off sides, but it doesn't
really affect anything. I can't help but think this is
gonna weirdly be the future of the game. Maybe it's
gonna get uberly americanized, and this is gonna be a

(09:53):
league outside of just a tournament. I love the tournament
aspect of it, but I really think they're onto something
with So I've had as much fun watching that as
any game that my team wasn't involved in. I think
ever this year.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
If you enjoy watching that, here, I have two suggestions.
One it's hard to find, but find some high quality
footsal because I really think you'll like that if you
like TST. It's a little bit small. It's like football
plus basketball. Oh you know, I used to watch basketball.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
The indoor leagues because Central Florida's had teams and then
they've gotten rid of Like Central Florida Crusade played out
of UCF and they won the league, and then the
team moved to another I don't know how that happened.
The Orlando Sea Wolves were a thing for a handful
of years, so, you know, I enjoy all versions of that,
but this just really and the fact that it's only
like two weeks long, it's like you gotta watch it

(10:47):
because it's happening now. You can't sign a premier league
season that's thirty six games or whatever. You gotta watch
it now because it's what's going on. And then I
didn't even know about the Hope Sol thing until I
saw her standing in goal. Thought I was watching an
older version of this. I'm like, nope, this is twenty
twenty five.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
I think the reason why TST should stay in just
the two week thing is the novelty of it. If
it happened all the time, I think people would would
get frustrated with some of the things that they do.
But since it's so different and so electric for just
the two week period, it's great. The other thing that
I would suggest if you like TST and want to

(11:22):
watch more things like that, do you know about beach soccer?

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I do. I'll see it in the whatever version of
the Olympics that pops on sometimes. My sister played in
a league of it later, you know, post high school,
college and stuff. But that is a whole other animal.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
For sure. High quality, world class beach soccer is one
of the most ridiculous things you will ever see. They
play barefoot on the sand, no shin guards know nothing,
and they will because the sand. It's so hard to
get a consistent like pass or bounce on the sand.

(11:58):
Almost everything is in the air.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, the ball doesn't move in the sand at all.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, almost everything is a header. A chess pass like
backflips are very common. It's it's such it's such a
fun thing. I love watching it every time I get
to see it.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
So yeah, I have heard the argument much like so
the other The only team I didn't mention that I
support is It's it's a new venture for me. But
right here in New Summer in Beach, we have a
UPSL team, the current FC. I've had the ability to
uh do PA for them this season. They just wrapped
up the regular season heading into the playoffs. But but
the UPSL operates with a fall league and a spring league,

(12:37):
so they played two ten game seasons a year. I
have seen the argument online, especially with the success of
this tournament, that maybe they could do that. They could
they could run it twice a year, and would that
kill the magic maybe slightly, But I I could see
the positives outgrowing the negatives on that.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
I think I don't like that either, because you would
lose a lot of the European teams or editor national
teams because you can't run it during their season. You
gotta wait till it, excuse me, till that's all over,
so in the summer, and then you got to kind
of run it before all the summer international tournaments starts,
so you're not competing with the Gold Cup or the
Euros or whatever. So I think where they've got it

(13:16):
now is the spot that it should stay, and it
should stay a novel once a year thing.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I think I'm just greedy. I just want more of it.
I think it's where I'm at with that. So you're
probably right. One is the way to go, because realistically,
like you mentioned earlier, that this company does put on
the basketball tournament as well, so at some point their
time and resources will go towards that, and I think
that happens more so in the fall. So in a
way they're already doing that. They're putting there. In the

(13:43):
spring they focused on the soccer one, and you know
in the fall they focused on the basketball, So in
a way, that's already true. So let's talk just some
some bullet points around the world of soccer this year.
So Liverpool wins the Premier League kind of breaks off
the man City run of things. I don't know where
you said Liverpool. So growing up being like a band kid,
our high school band would sing never walk alone after

(14:07):
football games, and that was like my introduction to Liverpool
to even find out what that was there there. I
don't know the comparison to like an NFL team, they're
kind of like like a Steeler Green Bay Packer thing,
where like they don't win all the time, but any
given year if they rose up and won the league,
you'd be like, oh, no, that makes sense because they're
like they're always consistently right there. So it definitely broke

(14:29):
up the Man city monotony. You know, mister Harvey won't
be happy about that either, but you know it did happen.
So to me, it's always cool to see, you know,
a team, a well known team doesn't win it every year,
but every couple of years they're able to break through
and win and they and they really did win it.
Kind of running away this year too early.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
In the season, I thought Arshuttle was gonna run away
with it and then they had a bad December and
January and then Liverpool just shot past them. The the
thing about the Premier League this year is that there
was so much wild stuff going on. I mean, you're
top four, Liverpool, Arsenal, man City, Chelsea, Yeah, that's kind
of expected. Newcastle in fifth, Aston Villa in sixth, Nottingham

(15:12):
Forest in seventh, one place outside the European places. Crystal
Palace wins the FA Cup for the first time in
their history. Tottenham finishes seventeenth, one place above relegation and
still wins the European Trophy with the Europa Conference League

(15:34):
and so they're seventeenth, but because they won the Conference
League they get a Europa League spot next year. Man
United finished fifteenth, two places below Everton, who at one
point during the season they looked like they were going
to go down by a mile and then they turned
it around at the mid of the year. It was
a fun season to watch the Premier League, it really was.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
And one thing that I'm really I've learned to love
as an American watching the Premier League. I love the
you know when when we have a europe game for
the NFL, we love the novelty of waking up at
nine or ten am or seven am, depending on where
you live in this country, to watch an NFL game,
To be able to wake up on a Saturday or
Sunday at nine am, and there's already something you want

(16:16):
to watch. Like I love that. I love that ability
of that. It's something we're actually gonna lose in the
World Cup next year because with it being here, everything
will be in prime time. I miss being able to
like kind of like that first weekend of March madness
where you're at work but you're watching stuff on your
phone or your stuff in the office. Like we're gonna
as Americans, we're gonna miss that a little bit, but
I think we will enjoy the ability of like everything's

(16:38):
in primetime and everything. But to me as an American
that's had that now for the fifteen years, I've really
focused on stuff like this. I love waking up at
nine ten o'clock in the morning. You know I'm up
way before that, but like that, there's already stuff to
watch that early in the morning.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
There is nothing like a fall Saturday as a sports fan.
Waking up, you got European soccer from seven to new
then you got college football the rest of the day,
and then at night you've got MLB playoffs. If it's
that early on, or you've got basketball or hockey early

(17:14):
season or NFL early season, it is just ridiculous, the
amount that is there to watch that time of year.
I kind of equate it to maybe not exactly right now,
but maybe three weeks ago when you had the first
two rounds of hockey and basketball and also MLB and
also March Madness and also college baseball all going on

(17:37):
at once. It was it's spectacular.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
The Memorial Day week or Veterans Day weekend, whichever one
it was, it just passed. How like the open the
conference tournaments for baseball were going on that whole weekend
it was. It was just perfect. So another kind of
I think noteworthy thing coming from Premier League is the
other end of that coin is only a couple of
years ago, but he's favorite Cinderella Leicester City get relegated

(18:03):
back to the championship. I think that is you know,
that is something that that is a team that's grown
winning it once a couple of years back. Like it
is not unusual to see someone walking around with their
jersey these days, so it'll be interesting to see the
people that are gonna stick along for that ride about
potentially getting back up, you know in the next year
or two.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Well, somebody who's not sticking around is jab Vardi. He's
announced that he's finally leaving the team after his entire
career basically taking them all the way to a championship.
And it's crazy how much that championship run kind of
made the careers of a lot of those players, and
Party is really the only one left that that stayed
and as bigger teams poached all the players that made

(18:43):
that championship run. So I respect him a lot for that.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
To compare it to it's it's not a one to one,
but like to americanize it a little bit, that chance
that that West City team, it's like the Toronto Raptors
NBA champions team, Like if you're just looking at the
history book of champions it doesn't make a lot of sense,
but it's there and you can't take it away from them.
So I'd put it that.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
I would honestly equate it more so of like I'm
gonna use I'm gonna use Bethune Cookmans that as an example,
if Bethune Cookman men's basketball didn't win the NCAA tournament,
made like a deep like won their conference, made a
deep run where the darlings like the minno darlings of

(19:27):
everybody in the country for a while. It's kind of
something like that, a team that had almost no success
historically just caught lightning in a bottle for one year, yeah,
and ended up winning the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's how I was gonna say the Mavericks at first,
but I do think it fits more with the Raptors
if we're talking NBA comparisons. But if you want to
talk teams, clubs with diehard fans that finally have something
that year for we had two out of the three
that are getting promoted this year. Leeds in Sunderland getting
back to the Premier League. Most people know Sunderland, they've

(20:01):
done the the the reverse Wrexham as I like to
call him, or the several years in a row getting
relegated for them to finally reach it back. And Leeds
just always been really Leeds and Newcastle. Newcastle's been back
in the prem for a while now, but for these
diehard fans, it's been a good you know, even if
it's only been two, three, four years, for some of
the it feels like an eternity, and for Sunderland it's

(20:23):
been nearly a decade, I want to say, so for
them to make it make it back to two fan
bases that unless you have a reason to dislike those clubs,
you're probably pretty happy.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
For Yeah, and Sunderland is my brother's team that he
likes to support, so I'm kind of happy for him.
Although my dad's team is Southampton and they got relegated.
Oh that was finished on twelve points, so not allowed
for him to be happy about this season.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
I mean, when you finished with twelve points, you've had
eighty percent of the season to wrap your head around
the fact that you're getting relegated. You've had a lot
of time, you know, to figure that out. To talk
a little Siria too. Napoli wins the win Syria. It
looked like it was gonna go inter there for a while,
but now in the last game of the season too,
we're able to get that win. My best friend since

(21:07):
middle school that's in the Navy. The first place he
was stationed was Naples, Italy, so he's taken to them
as a team, so he was pretty happy about that.
And it looked like intro was you know, they made
it all the way to the champions finals and they
got smacked by PSG, So that was like if I
had to bet on that game, I probably would have
picked PSG, but I did not think that was gonna
be the final score for that one.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
No, And to talk about the Champions League a little bit,
there's been the running joke of oh, PSG and French
football in general, like, oh, they can't win anything, they
always choke, They're never gonna win anything. And for them
to finally win and kind of break that meme and
it's like, we finally won one. I was kind of

(21:50):
sad to see it because I like joking about the
French teams not winning anything, but yeah, there was no
better team and you're up this year.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, I mean to me, it actually reminded me. I'm
going back twenty eighteen, maybe seventeen, but when it was
when Juventus made it and it was one of the
phones last years and it's like the only thing he
hadn't won. And they were playing I think Real Madrid
with with Roalgo and they score first and I'm like,
all right, let's fucking go and then they just get

(22:19):
trounced after that.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, that's one of my I remember watching that final
at my friend's house. He's a really big Juventus fan,
and just kind of feeling sad.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
It was one of the first times that that Gigi
actually looked forty plus years old. It's like the one
and like it wouldn't get in a lot of help
that game. But I probably would have said that anyway,
because I'll be an apologist for that guy forever. But yeah,
that it reminded me a lot of that. At least
Juventus scored whereas Intered did not in this another kind
of weird note, not weird note, but to me noteworthy

(22:50):
Mavenus getting relegated a couple of years ago. They kind
of rebranded. They've kind of they embraced like their fashion
kind of culture. They redid their jersey. They signed Lewis
Nannie right out of Orlando City. He was kind of
the face. They went from C to B and then
B to A and then about a four year stretch,
I want to say, and it seems like that Gas

(23:10):
is kind of ran out and I think they they'll
settle in B for a while. They might be able
to get back up. But like a team that really
had some stuff going, turns out their war breaks on
that train, because it did end up didn't end up
too great for them.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
This year, I like Vanetsia. I like the whole social
media thing they do. I like the jerseys, I like
the fashion thing. I really wanted when when they first
got to City, I really wanted one of their jerseys
from that year, but it would be multiple hundreds of
dollars to get one, and I just I was like
that it ain't worth it. But also at least I'm

(23:44):
not sure if they are anymore, but at the time
they had an American owner and multiple American players John
Lucabusio and Tanner Tessaman are on the team right now.
I think of the contingent of Americans that used to
be on there, So I hoped for their continued success.
Kind of sorry to see them get relegated.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, I mean I've always had a like, Palermo has
always been my like the team that's kind of just
forever in Siri b you know, being out of Sicily
and everything. So they're they're kind of gonna fit into
that role I think for a while. And I could
see them getting back up because, like you said, if
when you have owners willing to spend, you know, they
I could see that that can turn around. But that
one was noteworthy to me looking down at that and

(24:24):
it's like, oh they were, they were like the talk
of the town there for a couple of years, or
if that's happened. Kind of have three little sub topics
that we can just give our our take on here
before we wrap up, because this is very enjoyable.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
We're coming up on leaving. Are we leaving European soccer?

Speaker 1 (24:40):
We can if you have any lasts or we're.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Okay, I want I want to talk about the Bundesliga
because the league, the league I watched most this year
was the Bundesliga because it's on ESPN Plus and then
every game is on the SPN Plus so I can
watch it whenever. It was a wild season with Budesliga.
I mean, Byron won the title going away, we all
knew that was kind of gonna happen there. Congrats to
Harry Kane. He finally wins a title with somebody. But

(25:06):
the battle for the rest of the European spots was insane.
Brucia Dortmund for most of the season looked to get
like they were not going to get anything close to
a European spot. And Brucia Dortmund, I mentioned earlier, that's
my team in the bundeseligas I was kind of sad.
Then they reel off five straight wins to close the

(25:27):
season to finish fourth and snag the final championship spot,
snatch it away from Freiburg by two points, and yeah,
that was a great close to the season. And then
Mines getting a win in their last two games to
bounce RB Leipzig from European places. And if you know
anything about German soccer, you know that if you're either

(25:49):
with RB Leipsig or against Arby Leipsig, they're like the
Yankees in that sense. So that was a really fun
close to the season that I had a good time watching.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
My biggest takeaway from that, because that's not a league.
I spent a lot of time mutching. I wish Siria
I was more like literally available for I wish it.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Was on me too. I would watch a ton of
If it was, i'd watch a ton of it.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, we like, we get lucky and it's on like
CBS Sports Network randomly or something. But that's not you know,
that's not the quality that you would want to watch stuff.
But that's that's where I look with that. Before I guess,
before we leave Europe completely another. You know, we talked
pro Rail some of these other teams. Wrexham is gonna
be in the Championship next year and you mentioned like

(26:31):
someone or hates someone that's kind of where people settle
with Wrexham. I'm someone that's kind of followed this journey
since it began. Where do you stay with Wrexham?

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I don't really have a big opinion on it. It's
another story of somebody rich buying a club and pouring
a bunch of money into it, and it's happens a
lot of times in a lot of different clubs. Look
at look at Newcastle right, look at Manchester City. Before
they got Middle East in investment, they were kind of
a mid tier bad to mid club and now they're

(27:05):
winning every year and have the most expensive roster in
the world. And the way soccer works is you can
do that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rexham in
the Premier League in two or three years because there's
that amount of funding in it. And I think why
that they've had such a polar opposite response to Wrexham.
I think because of the media campaign and because of

(27:27):
who owns the team and how much it's been kind
of forced down your throat as a soccer fan, like ooh,
look at Rexham, Ooh look at the documentary, look at
all this stuff. I think that's what people resent more
so than the actual story of them climbing the ranks
and being successful.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
To me, the hate isn't super well. We talked Sunderland
there for a minute, like a lot of people know
them because of that documentary series, The Sunderland Until I
Die think So, if you are a fan of a
small club, I think it's more jealousy, envy, whichever word
you want to use that that could have easily been
your team, like the first team they like Rob mclaney
wanted to get a team in Ireland, but they couldn't

(28:07):
find one that really fit the vision that they wanted.
So just because that's where they happened to pick, and
they picked it for the community and the fact like
they saw potential in it. Could you have technically done
this anywhere, Yes, But I don't think to this extent,
I think it is a perfect match. I think it's
worked out the way it is. I am happy to
see them succeed and I think it's helped with what

(28:31):
we're gonna talk about next and it's like it shows
the story from the America because it's basically, you know,
European soccer through the American eyes, the whole show and
the way everything works, and like we can't really watch
League one or League two or the National League. But
now that they're in the Championship, like as an American,
we're gonna get to watch them on ESPN Plus whenever

(28:51):
we want. So don't be sho. I remember watching it
was a Rob mclaney interview and someone he wouldn't say
the team, but if somebody who works in analytics for
a Premier League team, and they did like a case
study on what are the most meaningful soccer brands to Americans?
And he said when I got the list back, and
made me want to jump out the window because number

(29:13):
one and two were Man United in Manchester City, that's
to be expected. Four was Wrexham and three was AFC Richmond.
So that just shows how America that exist. Yes, come on, guys,
it exists right here though it exists in our heart.
But so that's an example of like, you know, I
don't I don't think the hate is warranted. I think

(29:35):
if you're a fan of a small club. You just
wish it was you that was picked, and I think
it's a perfect And they've actually, I don't know where
this will go, but they've recently they're investing in a
team in Mexico. So are they going to do a
whole other welcome to whatever club that is, and is
that going to get the side? Yeah, I'd have to
look up the name of it, but yeah, they've recently.

(29:57):
It might just be robbed this time. I don't know.
I don't know if it's both. I don't know if
you got Deadpool to do it a second time. But
we'll see.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
But you're talking about small clubs, right. And my dad
is a really big fan of York City who's currently
in the National League North and has been for a while.
And he became a fan of them because they were
in the third division or fourth division or whatever, and
he whenever we played FIFA, he would always pick York

(30:26):
City for some reason. I don't know why, but he
and then he started following them for real, and because
they were in the third or fourth division, their games
were streamed. He could watch them. They dropped to the
National League and then the National League North and they
might be actually back in the National League, but it's
impossible to watch their games here and he's watched maybe

(30:48):
one game in the last four years because you just
don't stream it or it's not available here anywhere. And
you know, I can't imagine if York City suddenly got
the estate that Rexham did and just shut up the ranks.
I mean, he'd be over the moon, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
I mean to me, it's it's the version of you know,
like when when the Dodgers go from Brooklyn to the
West Coast, like people had to pick another team because
there was no conceivable way to follow them at the time,
Like you can get the box score in the paper,
but like I forget the quote who just came down
to like you can't just root for a box score,
so team, you know, people were forced to choose other teams.
I think because like Premier League and all that has

(31:27):
become so commercialized for some too commercialized for some fans.
They like the idea of like, yeah, if I'm a
Man United fan, that didn't really change, but I am
going to take some of the energy I used to
follow Man United with and find one of these smaller
clubs because it's a more pure version of like if
someone it's like over here, if someone took to like, oh,

(31:48):
I'm an LSU fan, but like I'm gonna watch Youngstown
State in the FCS and I'm gonna be, you know,
invested in their win wins and losses. I think a
lot of people are starting to do that, and they're like,
while they exist in the same universe, they don't really
so there's really no shame outside of a rare, rare
FA Cup matchup, you don't have to worry about it.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
And bringing it back to the American side, which is
probably where we'll go next. Looking at the at the
rundown of the show, Yeah, is I kind of feel
the same way about Orlando City.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
When they started, right they were they were they had
moved from Austin. They were the Austin Aztecs of USL two,
and they came in and they were good, and then
they were Orlando. At first they were the Orlando Lions,
and then then then they were the Orlando City and
Lions became their nickname. And then in in USL Premiere

(32:44):
I think was the name of the league at the time,
the league that it is now USL Championship I fell
in love with it because it kind of gave me
the minor league baseball feel of like, yeah, this is
this is our team, and the only way to follow
it really is by going to games or watching small
YouTube broadcasts, and you kind of feel the sense of

(33:04):
community because it's not so big and commercialized. It feels
like a grassroots thing. And that's one of the reasons
they got to MLS is because they got so much
grassroots support. But since they've gotten to MLS, it's kind
of felt like the club that I grew up loving
has kind of gone away a little bit because they've
got to I mean, the new ownership has been great,

(33:27):
the investment of the club has been great. There's great
players there, Oscar Pereja is a great coach, the product
on the field is terrific. Just everything around it kind
of feels less genuine than it used to when I
was when I was growing up, And I feel that
way about MLS as a whole.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Really, Yeah, I tend to agree with you, like I
still love Orlando City. Has the shine come off a
little bit? I would? I tend to agree with you.
I would say yes, those USL days, like I never
made it to a game in those days, because I
couldn't convince, like trying to sell a buddy to go
to what I'd have to describe as minor league soccer,

(34:03):
what you know as a hard sell, which I understand
nowadays it is not all like especially in the early
MLS days, I'd bring friends that, you know, I don't
know if think' spell soccer let alone really knew what
it was, but on the on the way home they be, hey,
so when's the next time you're going? You know, I
would recruit people, and like I still look forward to
the one or two games a year I make, but
like it does feel a little different than those USL days,

(34:26):
watching it on YouTube and all that stuff. And if
I had to pick a team in there now, like
when when Orlando City went to MLS, it opened up
a spot and I guess they sold their rights to
a USL club to Louisville, which is why Louisville City
has very similar color scheme, and if you squint, they
kind of look their jerseys still kind of look like that.
They're kind of in these ten years, since it's crazy

(34:46):
it's been ten years in the MLS already, they've kind
of worked on their own identity, and they weirdly have
a rivalry with the rowdies just because of who their
DNA is built in. Yeah, I might not have a
USL team to cheer for, but I have a USL
team the cheer against.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
That's for sure, I know that.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
But yeah, I agree one hundred percent. It does not
mean I love the club any less, but the mystique
in the sense of community has dwindled a little bit.
It's become I don't want to say commercialized, just more
like it's your buddy used to be in a bandwidth
but now he has a full time job, and like
you still love the guy. You guys still my jam
on the weekend, but it's not the same thing.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
And I don't know, maybe you can speak about this.
Being involved with a small local soccer team now down
in New Smyrna, do you get even a little bit.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Of that sense of community back So as someone who's
five games six if you count the women's game, that
I worked for them as well because they have a
women's team. Back in the summer of nineteen, we had
a USL two team in Daytona. Daytona Soccer club, I
was involved in starting a supporters group with that with
Cody Perkin. Shout out to Cody, and that was such

(35:57):
a fun summer. I was dog tired because I was
also working to Tortuga, So if I wasn't at the
tort Ugoz, I was at one of these games. First
year went great. They finished like third in the division,
which was unheard of for a first year team. They
then got a sponsor. They were going to be sponsored
by Rush Athletics. They were going to be Daytona Rush
going into the next year. Uh then COVID happened and
the club did not survive.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, I have a buddy that worked for the front
office for that team.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
So when this came around last year, different league upsl
of course I wanted to get involved. Immediately. I was like, hey,
we need to stream these games and you do something.
There's no Wi Fi at the stadium currently. Didn't really
make that happen. Then, when Cookman gave me the chance to, like,
you know, do some PA stuff, I started putting that
on my LinkedIn. They're like, hey, that is something we
need you know right now. So that that's where that

(36:43):
journey started. But that's a long way to answer your
question of yes, I feel and the people that would
go to those Daytona Soccer Club games. I have totally
you need to come to these. This is our second
chance at at a hometown club like that, So I
one feel it that way. If there's one hundred people
at this game, like if you feel it, you feel
all one hundred of those people. And this is only

(37:05):
their second year in existence. They've already racked up about
four trophies across all their all their teams that they field,
and it is something that I'm glad I get to
be a small part of because I feel it as
like the magic of what Daytona Soccer Club was for
that one year and Oruna City was for that like
five year stretch. It is a very similar feel to
answer your question, So I UPSL. There's aspirations to make

(37:29):
them USL two squad. Oh, I'm here for all of it.
I'm just I'm glad I get to be a small
part of it. So that's definitely I say all that's
saying you need to make it to a game one
of these days.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I mean, yeah, if my schedule ever permits it, I'll
be down there. Yeah. Well, you talked about the maybe
being maybe in USL, and I think what the final
point we want to touch on is potential pro well
in USL. So if they ever get a USL two team, hey,
we might be talking about a future USL champion hip

(38:00):
first division club in the little loone newsmit of Beach.
If if it goes our way.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
And the work these guys put into it, it would not
shock me. We were going to talk Club World Cup,
but I think the only thing I want to say
on that, I'm gonna phrase it more as a question
why does nobody care about the Club World Cup? What's
your theory?

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Because uh, oh, that's actually a tougher question than I
You bring it up right, because it's been in the
news that like, oh, they're struggling to sell tickets and
nobody's going and ticket prices are down and blah blah blah.
I think the main thing that I think why nobody

(38:37):
cares is because it's not an established competition. It feels
like it has appeared out of nowhere. And look, all
of these clubs are now in the US playing games
that FIFA tells us are meaningful, but we as the fans,
don't believe are meaningful because it's just a there hasn't

(38:57):
been enough marketing, in my opinion, especially targeted at the
cities where it's gonna be. There are four games scheduled
for Orlando, and I had to tell my friend the
other day who's a diehard soccer fan, that they were
gonna be there. And two, why should we care about
this extra competition that has never existed before?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah? I mean there was a guy at Current FC
that huge Man City fan had no idea they were
in Orlando. Brian Harvey, huge huge Man City fan, had
no idea. I wanted to go to Man City and
Juventus here in Orlando. Even if it doesn't really mean anything,
it's a step above a friendly. I wanted to go.
That game is at three o'clock on a Thursday. You're

(39:42):
you're going out of your way to make people not go,
Like I, me and my brother in law were gonna go.
You know, we assume it was at least at like
six where you got to get off work and book
it there. I was fine with that, but three o'clock, yeah,
they this is this is worse than the League's Cup,
because at least the League's Cup. I knew why it
was invented. It was so mess in Miami could win
a trophy this we still don't know who and what

(40:03):
the reason is. So that's really my only touch on that.
I'd much rather spend the last couple of minutes here
talking about USL. But the tournament has just started. Maybe
when it gets to the knockout round, maybe there's some
exciting games. Maybe we're up on here next time saying like,
you know what that worked out towards the end, But
until I see it, I don't. I don't have a
lot of faith.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, so let's talk about about USL.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Truth be told the main I've told you this before
we recorded. Once they announced this, I immediately wanted to
have you on, but it was right in the thick
of that Withoon Cookman run. So this this is our
last topic because we want to give you know, all
the all the time to it. I've always said they
already had the structure in place to give this a shot.
Where USL is gonna do you know attempt pro rail?
Do you think this actually comes to fruition? I don't

(40:47):
want to be cynical, but there is a way that
this all just crumbles before it even starts.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Oh of course, there's a way it crumbles before it
even starts. The way it crumbles is all the owners
get cold feet and go, eh, maybe maybe we don't
want to do this, But I think they're committed to it.
A friend of mine used to work for the USL
front office. I'll keep his name private and what he
did private because there's a bunch of NDAs and stuff,
but he told me that this was in the works

(41:13):
even back in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen when
he worked there, So it's been thought about for a
long time. They have the system in place. They have
the three full professional leagues, Championship, League one, and League two,
and then there's I know they're going to try and
do it for women. Maybe in twenty thirty is when
they're aiming to do it for the women's side, but

(41:34):
they're still trying to develop that women's professional league.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And that'll probably just be one up like two levels,
probably won't be three.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Yeah, but the morst language mouth please. The most important
thing is that they are going for FIFA Division I
sanction under the US Soccer Federation as kind of like
an equal to MLS rather than a league below MLS.

(42:06):
And if they get that that will make it more
incentivized for the clubs that are being formed to choose
USL over MLS or MLS Next Pro or whatever thing
that they're doing over there in their closed system. Right,

(42:26):
because let's use newsommer to BEACHFC as an example or
the wave. Right, we said, if they join USL two,
they can get promoted to USL one and the USL Championship.
And if USL Championship is a Division one league, they
could qualify for it. So let's say a Club World
Cup because they could be a domestic champion. That is
the kind of top end you want your leagues to have.

(42:51):
The big questions when it comes to proral not can
they do it, not should they do it? But is
it sustainable? And that is where it will either succeed
or fail in the first five years. And I'll explain
why I mean that. Let's take a team from the
USL Championship. I'll think of one off the top of
my head, Sacramento Republic. Sacramento Republic is very good on

(43:15):
the field, They're very well supported in the community, and
they are very well financially backed. They have chased MLS
a couple of times in their history, and I've wanted
them to get it a couple of times in their history.
Let's say they have a bad season, a coach leaves,
players get hurt, they get relegated to USL one. How
much money do they lose and how much money does

(43:39):
the league give them to offset those losses to make
sure they remain in business. And that's the thing that
the Premier League does, maybe more than any league in
the world. The parachute payments for teams to go down
to keep them afloat. And it's even more important when
you were going down from a fashional league to a

(44:01):
league that is potentially semi professional. You need to keep
those clubs in business. You need to focus on getting
fans out to those lower division clubs. You need to
invest in those in the lower division clubs in the community.
You need to make sure people are aware that they exist,
that they're still playing games even though they got relegated.
You need to inform the American soccer public that they

(44:22):
to support those clubs because they might go right back
up again they and then they'll be back. So that's
the big thing of where it's going to succeed or fail.
And it's not going to succeed or fail in one
year or two years. It's going to be five, six,
seven years if they can sustain it for that long
and make sure clubs don't go out of business. I'm
not saying no club is going to go out of

(44:44):
business from this. We might lose one or two that
if they drop down to USL two, or maybe they
just decide it's not worth it. But you have to
have a group of owners that are willing to sustain
the losses if they go down, and I think if
they play their cards right, this could be a new
era of American soccer and a great era of American soccer.

(45:06):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I think there are teams that are safe. You mentioned Sacramento,
I think Oakland Roots. I think had one more here,
Phoenix Rising. Teams like that that if they went down,
their attendance will take a little bit of a hit.
But the people that like to go to those games
like to go to those games already in a second
tier system anyway, they're just gonna view it as a

(45:27):
second tier system that's broken up a little bit more now.
Would like I'm just irish. Remember this team because Hodgy
Berry played there, and he played at UCF. But like
the Colorado Spring switchbacks, Like that's a team that maybe
they go down, you know, you don't just because like
they he was chasing like the USL goal record and
they're still good. Crowds were only decent, you know, so

(45:50):
but to give you us O credit, we have not
heard of a team folding in a long time, with
the exception of San Diego. But they really just kind
of tapped out before the match started because they're like,
all right, they they passed over us and created a
new team for MLS where they could have just pulled
us up. So like we're out of it. I think
the guy running and he was basically created it himself,

(46:11):
so it was his call to make basically you know,
tapped out at that point. But other than that, we
don't really hear about their teams folding. So they have
been somewhat sustainable in the levels that they have right now.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
And I think the USL has done a really good
job of targeting markets that MLS doesn't. I mean, you
think of one of the great stories right now is
Rhode Island FC brand new stadium up there, a smaller market, Hartford, Hertford,
even Vermont it's in USL one or two right now.

(46:44):
The Vermont team is so much support. Look at the
game they're playing at like a high school stadium, and
it's standing room only for these games.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
I mean it helps when you're when you're college up
there wins the national championship.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, it kind of it's tapping into these communities that
maybe are not being served by the tier one league
quote unquote in this country. I think of Oklahoma City
and Tulsa Toys in Oklahoma that have had very good

(47:17):
USL support in the past. I think of Austin before
they got the MLS team. Austin Bold was very well supported.
That's another one that folded because an MLS team came
and plopped down on top of them. Birmingham very good.
And then you have Pittsburgh, yes, and then you have
the teams like Pittsburgh that are historic teams, not new

(47:40):
teams popping up in communities that are served. But I
think Charleston Battery is the Yes, the poster child of
that Charleston Battery with all the history they have, they
should be a Division one team.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
I mean I remember them playing Orlando City in those
early early USL years too.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Tommy Rowdies is the same way.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, and that is a team that, despite my disdain
for them, like it's like the USF situation. If they
weren't so they didn't fumble with the goal line so
many times, they'd be in a much better scenario on
on where they are on their perspective pyramids. But I
want to and I want to kind of keep this
story in the forefront as we get updates on this.

(48:21):
I want to bring Michael back in and we'll kind
of discuss as information rolls out. This was kind of
the ground zero of it all because it's really only
been a few months. You know, we sit here want
to like, all right, so what's next? What are you
doing next? When really it is a process, So we'll
see where it goes. I want to end it on
these two questions. Actually, one's a question, one's a statement.
The statement is the biggest issue with it so far
is the names of these divisions are stupid. I think

(48:44):
it's gonna be USL Division one.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
I have it won USL Division one, USL Championship, and
USL League One. I don't like it either.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Fix it while you have time. This is championship.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I like it what it is now, Championship Division one,
Division two. Keep it like that? Yeah, do that?

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Or do I mean, if you really want to USL
Premiere USL Championship USL, well even that's fine.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
I like the idea better USL Premiere. You could bring
it back.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
So that that is my big statement. Fix it while
you have time. I feel like I'm watching the trailer
to the Sonic movie again, but my last thing. And
we may agree with this and we may not. If
this was happened, it's twenty twenty five, this was happening,
and maybe it was a little bit further along. If
this was happening in twenty thirteen fourteen, if you're a

(49:34):
team like Orlando City that is dominating USL at that time,
do are you still putting your efforts into going to
MLS or are you sitting around saying not sitting around,
but like I'm gonna be We're gonna be heavily involved
on how this works out. Because this might make us
you kind of touched on in a minute ago, makes
us want to stay in USL to be a part

(49:55):
of this system. Then joining the closed system of MLS,
you think it'll stop teams from doing because to me
or one of the many things I love about Atlanta City.
It's the closest we've seen to like a true pro
promotion in this country, when you dominate the league below
for so long, for half a decade, that you finally
get pulled up. So they kind of did it the

(50:16):
most legit way our country offers. But if it was
if this was now and that was then, do you
think that a team like that just looks at it like,
all right, we're gonna we're gonna be around for this
ride Instead.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I don't think you can really say that because you're
taking too many statements. If this was happening, then Wood
Orlando City do that, I'm gonna I'm gonna avoid that
question entirely. I'm gonna say, Okay, let's take Louisville. Yeah,
Louisville has a legit shot at MLS expansion. They have

(50:52):
a great stadium, they have a great fan base. It's
in an area of the country that MLS is not
tapped into yet. Ye does Louisville now if MLS comes
knocking at the door, say no, we're gonna stay with
usl and be part of this model that they're building.
That's the key point in that question, right, not that

(51:12):
it not could it have happened in the past, because
it didn't, it will it happen in the future, And
will MLS make some move to try and stop it
if it starts becoming too big, which I think they will.
And that's a whole other topic that I'm gonna save
maybe for the next time.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
I think that's a good idea. So I'll rephrase the
question once on our way out here. If in the
next five years, as this takes shape, Louisville wins three
shields and two cups in that five year stretch, and
then MLS is interested. But at that point this is
pretty fleshed out. You know what it is and what
it isn't. Is it at least a harder decision than
it would be now because right now the answer is like, absolutely,

(51:51):
I want to go up.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
I'd like to say, yes, it's a harder decision. M hm.
But it depends on where the money is. Yeah, that's
that's the be all and end all, that it depends
on where the money is. If they think that they
can get more money going MLS, they will. If they
can think they they'll make more money in the long
term staying with USL. They will, and that's the crux
of the whole debate.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I think that's that's
gonna be the final whistle on this. Then almost right
at an hour and a half two, ironically enough, so
that's almost full soccer game here. I like I said,
I want to continue this cover. I'm going to follow
this a lot closely, and whenever there's any updates, I
want to bring Michael back on and we're going to
just kind of dissect what we get and move forward.
Cause I wanted to succeed. I've always had maybe because

(52:34):
they're in the city, started there, I've always had a
soft spot for USL. If it creates the identity of like, oh,
they're doing it like the rest of the world, I
think they can co exist even if they're I would
like for them to be on the top level like MLS.
But if that makes it sticky for everything, like you
can leave it at two like that only affects the
money aspect, which of course rules everything. But I'm rooting

(52:56):
for it. I'm rooting for the success. I guess is
where I want to end this there. Do you have
any any closing remarks before we get out of here.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Yeah, I agree. I'm rooting for the success. I hope
they succeed, and I hope I hope a lot of
small towns across the country suddenly have interest in starting
a soccer team because then they could potentially get into
this pyramid system and move up the ladder.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah. I think it's I think between people seeing the
Sunderland documentary years ago, Wrexham being as popular as it
is to being able to and you're if you're sitting
there in you're a soccer fan and you watch Welcome
to Rexham and then you learn that in your hometown
of Hartford, Connecticut, you could be a part of a
similar journey. I think. I think it's gonna make it's
gonna bring people out to the park. I think I
think it really is. So we're gonna we're gonna hope

(53:38):
for more of that. But Mike, I appreciate your time,
and I know you've got a vacation plan later this week,
so hope you have a good time on your your
rare time off and look forward to having you back
on soon.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Thanks again, thank you so much for having me. I
appreciate get the chance.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
To talk to you and thanks for clicking on guys,
thanks for watching the listen and go support your local club,
whoever that might be, so we'll see you next time.
Take care,