Super Bowl LIX Preview + NFL Hall of Fame 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
How's going, guys, Thanks for tuning in to the Super
Bowl preview edition of the Phil Talk Sports podcast. I
got the band back together. Hank and Nick are both
here with me being Hanker going off of two weeks
of anxiety waiting for the damp game, and I think
Nick here for moral support. So guys, thanks for being here.
And we got a game here at about forty eight hours.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, we really do, man, And like I got to
tell you, like it it always feels like a little
too long, Like of all the games that you hope
is not two weeks of length, it is this, so
I understand your guys.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Pay I mean, it's it's one of those things where
it's like a double edged sword because you have to
wait so long. But then if you had guys injured
during like the conference championship game, they get meaningful time
to get better. And there were players on the Eagles who,
you know, one had a concussion and someone has a

(01:06):
broken back, and someone has a like I don't I
don't even know what's wrong with the dude's leg, but
they're all they're all supposed to play.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Carter is thick. It's like, oh great.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, I mean I think he's getting I think he's
getting better. To quote Monty Python, don't.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
So this is the fourth super Bowl of my lifetime
that the Eagles were in, and I just don't remember
this two weeks feeling this song, Not in twenty two,
not in seven, not in eighteen. I definitely not know four,
because I mean, when you're younger, you got more. I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
I don't think they had two weeks, you know, four.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Maybe that's why, but even even the past two of
modern time just didn't feel this as much of a weight.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I just I don't know, I could feel differently from
from from how Phil feels, but like I feel like
it's one of those things where I was super confident
in twenty two. I was also very super confident in seventeen,
and I think I was like too young to even know.

(02:09):
I was like four point fifteen. I think it was
too young to know how confident or not confident I was.
It was just like, we're in the super Bowl, and
we're happy to be here. I feel like this. I
feel like this time around, it's more like overthinking things
that could go wrong, Like you've we've already played this team.
We kind of know what to expect, but at the

(02:32):
same time, they're also trying to threepeat and the Eagles
are trying to obviously stop them from doing that, you know,
h So it's a lot oh four.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Definitely just happy to be there. Probably didn't even realize
how big I think. For me, it was just getting
over the hump of the NFC title Game loss. It
was more that than anything. Seventeen was like, how the
hell are we here with everything that happened? And then
two yeah, I will admit now. I mean you can
go back and watch the episodes. I was overly confident then,

(03:05):
and this year I'm just numb to it because I've
purposely not watched any preview stuff because like any one
opinion's gonna sway me right now, Like I've watched maybe
there's one particular Eagles podcast that I really like that
I try to listen to it, but it just gives
me anxiety right now, So I just haven't. And I
will say this, and Nick you can tell me you

(03:26):
think I'm crazy. I think this is a better team
than in twenty two for the Eagles. The Chiefs defense
probably better than twenty two, the offense way worse. Than
twenty two, and the field won't be a nice drink.
So that is why I am at least comfortably content that,
Like I don't know, obviously you can see the Chiefs

(03:49):
winning because you had to sit through it two years ago,
and then people are floating out like the Seahawks Denver
type Super Bowl thing that could happen, so and I
think it could be anything in between. So it would
be silly of me did just say, oh, yeah, we
got this, We've already played once, we know what to
correct Sirianni has said, like I have notes from two
years ago that if we ever saw them again at

(04:11):
what I would do differently. So I'm more reasonably confident
because I was irrationally confident in the first time. But
would you agree that the Eagles are overall better than
twenty two and the Chiefs are overall worse because the
offense is worse.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
I feel like I feel like there are some places
where the Eagles are better and there are some places
where the Eagles are worse. Like I don't think that
Jalen Hurts is as good this year as he was
in twenty twenty two, like obviously, like the stats back
that up. He had way more passing yards and missed
the same amount of games. He just felt like he

(04:48):
was a more prolific passer. But of course, like we
didn't have Saquon Barkley back then, and he adds so much.
I'm going to disagree with you and say that I
think that the Chiefs. I think that the Chiefs not
necessarily have the better offense, but I think that they
have more talent on their offense. Like last time, they

(05:10):
had like I probably couldn't even tell you what receiver
they had. They had like Sky Moore, he was like
their number one receiver and Juju Smith Schuster and Mahomes
was hobbled, I mean hobbled basically. Anytime Patrick Mahomes gets injured,
I'm just going to believe that it's it's more fake

(05:33):
than real. But this time they have they have DeAndre Hopkins, who, yeah,
he's getting older. They have Hollywood Brown who is probably
better than Juju Smith Schuster, and they have Xavier Worthy,
who is probably better than any receiver that they had.

(05:53):
So I think that they are better on offense, and
I think that their defense is a little bit more
deadly than it than it used to be. Like I
if you're gonna peg this as a super Bowl that's
gonna be somewhere in that both teams are gonna score
somewhere in the thirties. I think that that would be
like an incorrect assessment assessment. I think that this will
probably if it's a blowout, Sure one team might score

(06:16):
in the thirties, but I don't think both teams are
gonna score in the thirties. I think it's going to
be somewhere in the twenties.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, I can. I can second that. First, I just
want to let the audience know before we get too
far into this. I am with I'm sure you too.
There is too much pregame analysis. There comes a point
where we're all running in circles. I think, you know,
I think there's an advantage here and advantage there, and
here and there. It's like they're both really good teams.

(06:46):
I mean, there's only so much to break down. But
with that said, to second on what you guys are
going on, I think the Eagles statistically are a better defense,
and I think shades I know, you know, both teams
are really good. I could see it going either way,
but shades of the first Mahomes Super Bowl against Tampa

(07:06):
when the chiefs Ole line was completely outmatched. I don't
think it's quite that severe this goal around. But Philly's
defensive front, if Carter is able to play, is a
legitimate D line, and they are not only really good,
but very deep, so I think that'll cause problems. And
while the chiefs ole line is very good, especially in
the middle with Creed Humphrey, the outside tackles have been

(07:29):
a problem all year, and I think they could take
advantage of it on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
So I think the reason I was overly confident the
first time was exactly what you just said, that the
blueprint on how to beat Kansas City in the Big
Game was forged by Tampa and not knowing what the
field was gonna feel like, you know, on that day,
I saw no reason we couldn't duplicate that game plan. Obviously,
that's gonna be easier to do this time around than

(07:56):
then because it's turf, so you can't really have any
surprises with turf, So that blueprint, I agree. I think
it's not outdated yet. I think you can still pull
a lot of stuff from what Tampa did back then,
and maybe I should be more confident now than I
was then, but after seeing you played ninety percent of
the game. I mean, I remember saying back then, Jalen
Hurts played a near perfect game, fumbled for no reason,

(08:19):
and then resumed playing a near perfect game, assuming that
fumble doesn't happen again or anything of the sort. You
pair that with, You pair that with the upgrade that
Miles Sanders, who fumbled on his first touch of the
Super Bowl, only touched the ball like seven more times
after that. You replace that running performance with Saquon Barkley
on any level, because obviously, if you are the Chiefs,

(08:42):
I could see people being like, all right, we have
to bottle up Barkley and make Hurts beat us. Most
people are gonna think that if you are going to
bottle up Barkley to that degree, that means you're one
on one on just about everybody else. And that's hell.
That's four hours a hell for those dbs out there,
for the receivers that we have. So I don't know
that you can be that black and white about it,
where like all you do is is bottle up Barkley

(09:04):
because even if you tried, I mean, most of his
long touchdowns this year are against loaded boxes. So it's
not like there isn't ways for him to still he
might not average eight yards ten yards of carry, but
he'll still break off the forty fifty sixty at some
point and then it softens everything up so much. Different
team and the execution will be much different. Like all

(09:25):
that goes out the window because the Chiefs have been,
on paper not the better team maybe a handful of
times this year, and even the way the game has
played out, I mean, Buffalo could have had them, maybe
should have had them, depending on how you spot a
football from here and there. And then you have the
game that we had against Washington with shout out to
Washington for a great season, but you could see the
difference of a team that is good maybe a year

(09:47):
or two early to where they should be and a
team that, you know, last year was the outlier. This
is how good we really are.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Also as also the Commanders, they really don't have as
good the defense as the Chiefs do. I think it's
like their run defense during the regular season is eight
and the Commander's run defense was like twenty eight. Yeah,
so like I do, I think that Saquon Barkley can

(10:16):
have a lot of success against the Chiefs. I do
think he can have a lot of success against the Chiefs,
but I don't think that it's a situation where he's
going to be ripping off multiple long runs because I
think the Chiefs are better at tackling and I think
that they they're better at containing. I think, like you said, Washington,

(10:37):
they had a great season, but even during that Lions game,
they still couldn't stop the run. And it was really
the Lions who took themselves out of the game by
by halting, giving it to Gibbs and giving it to Montgomery.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, you know, it does feel like a real distant
memory that game of Phil in Washington. But all I
remember in that game was just how incredible the Eagles
are up front, you know, defense that talked about, but
offense too. You know, it just felt like Herts had
time to pack the ball and check his Facebook and
Saekuon Barkley was just having wide open holes. I mean,

(11:16):
Philly literally waved the white flag in the fourth quarter.
It was such an incredible.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Game, and they did it. They did it with two
different centers.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
People don't understand, like our starting center was not even
supposed to play like before the game even started, there
were the media members were like, he's probably gonna be out,
and he ended up playing in the second half with
like a broken tailbone or something. I don't know what
he has, but like it's it's just one of those

(11:46):
situations where I think the Eagles this time have a
better offensive line. They don't have Isaac Sayamalu. I think
that that Mylatta is better, Jurgens is younger, and I
think that Beckton has played really well this season, and

(12:07):
they have more depth behind them with Steen who could
be like a decent player if need be.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Something lost in all this, in this particular playoff run
is Goddard our tight end is getting hot at the
right time. He's actually leading the team in receiving yards
in a team that has Aj Brown and DeVante Smith.
The one thing you don't have to worry about in
the passing game is Barkley doesn't really I mean you
can get like a wide open screen to him. He
might be in trouble, but he's not often gonna aid

(12:36):
the passing game the way in years past, like a
Darren Sproles would or even when you had Miles Sanders.
If you can say one thing about Miles Sanders. He
might have slightly better hands than Barkley, But when you're
a running back, that's not an overall positive. That's just
that stops you for being a negative in my opinion.
But if you broke down like position by position on offense,
at least quarterback and tight end are the only real

(12:57):
places that Kansas City beat Philly in my opinion. On defense,
I think you can go position for a position and
it might breakout pretty evenly.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Probably center.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Depends on which center and how healthy they are. Yeah,
I could see that as well.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, the thing is they and and Jalen Hurts is
a wonderful quarterback, but and and nixt Uriani is a
wonderful coach. But how big of the gap is Mahomes
and there and Reid versus them two? And that's all
respect of Mahomes and Reed, who are doing it at
such a high level.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Strangely enough, Mahomes and and Jalen Hurts have very similar
statistics in the postseason. I know that Hurts has played
an extra game, but I think Hurts has more touchdown
passes in the postseason than than that.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Seems to be all year two. It's like Mahomes. If
you did a blind reveal of him versus the league
average this year, he's pretty much that.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah. I mean if you put him between or next
to brock Party and you did a blind thing, I
bet you you wouldn't be able to figure out which
one was which in the middle of the season.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah. Or even if you combined the Justin fields and
Russell Wilson stats and just called like the Pittsburgh quarterback
be pretty similar, I would say too.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Right, But if you split it up fourth quarter between
Mahomes and literally the next best guy, that's what makes
him so different. Where it's like and that's where I
think it comes into play. Which is a huge advantage
of you guys being there two years ago, because Josh Allen,
like the first drive of the game and the last

(14:43):
drive of the game, he looked pretty nervous and like,
you know, shaking his hands, you know, throwing the ball
right to the defense, and I think hurts. Having been
there before and having been able to go over the
mistakes of the last game, I think that plays well.
We won't have to kind of get used to it.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable saying that the moment won't be
too big for anyone on offense. We do have some
young guys on defense that have played, you know, out
of their mind, the exciting Whites for example, But like
you know, Blanken Chip's been there already, so you know,
I just don't think the moment's going to be too big.
You mentioned what's the gap between Sirianni and Hurts, with

(15:22):
Andy Reid and Mahomes. As far as we can tell,
it's the difference is the last second field goal. So
maybe you just got to be the team that gets
that last second field goal.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Yeah, you know, like Hurts was a Pro Bowl player,
Hurts in the postseason of the year that you know,
you guys went twenty twenty two, same deal as numbers
were spectacular, you know.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
So and this year he's got a lot of supporting casts.
And you know, that's the funny thing about the narrative
this year with Jalen Hurts, where it's like he's not
like his passing yards are towards the bottom of all
postseason players, Like every quarterback that advanced was avoiding the turnover,

(16:04):
and it's all I'd almost rather have him have the
wherewithal to not throw the ball down the field when
he knows that that can only create bad things. The
Eagles have such an advantage anyways, so that's the other
part about it.

Speaker 3 (16:19):
I think the biggest frustrating thing the standpoint of an
Eagles fan in watching Jalen Hurts in some of these
postseason games is he had the chance to throw the
to pull the trigger and not put the ball in
harm's way, Like I feel like there was like a
safety against the Rams. There were a few sacks he

(16:39):
had against the Rams where he totally could have just
you know, he's being pulled it to the nearest receiver,
like in the ground or in the dirt, and the
Eagles probably would have gotten more points. There was a
point in time against the Commanders where he took a
really bad sack and it pulled them out of field
goal range. Elliot missed fifty five yard field goal. So

(17:02):
I think there's there's a difference between playing conservatively in
those situations and not wanting to make a mistake and
playing smart in the sense of not taking a sec
I think that's the major difference between Hurts and Mahomes.
Mahomes is the kind of guy. He probably would roll
a direction and just chuck the ball out of bounce

(17:23):
because he has the arm strength to do so. This
is something that I haven't really seen Jalen Hurts do.
I think Jalen Hurts his biggest weakness. It's not his
arm strength, it's not his passing ability. And this is
more than just his ability to read the defense. It's
the fact that in certain situations he can he has

(17:45):
enough speed to get the extra yard, but he won't
like he'll he's he'll he'll run to he'll run a
certain direction and he'll pull up a pull up right
before he gets to the line of scrimmage at a
bounds when we all know that you could just the
ball out of bounds if you wanted to, and you
wouldn't lose two yards. I think that as an Eagles fan,

(18:07):
that is the most frustrating thing about his game. It's
not that he doesn't pass a lot, it's not that
his ability to read the defense is not as good
as other people. It's just he doesn't have that sort
of quarterback that that behind the line of scrimmage awareness
that you know, a guy like Mahomes would probably just

(18:29):
chuck it out of bounds and be like, okay, I
lost this many yards instead of losing two.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
True, And I think the biggest difference, which kind of
alludes to everything you just broke down, is if we're
gonna win in twenty two, it's because Hurts had to
put on a Superman cape this year. Not the case
at all. Maybe Barkley has to put on the cape,
if anyone has to put on a cape. But this
team is well rounded enough that you don't have to
play with a cape on. You just have to play

(18:55):
up to your you know, regular ability. I think, if
again losing my voice, sorry, if Barkley has an average
game for Barkley standards, and that's still eighty seven yards
a touchdown, maybe thirty yards receiving off that's an average
game for him. If he does that, that should open

(19:16):
up the rest of the offense to play well enough
to win. Whether you win or not, whether there's a
call that makes you rip your hair out, whether they
just get the ball last, all this could not matter.
And the Chiefs can win that way because we've seen it.
We've seen it more times than we haven't really, because truthfully,
the Chiefs lost one legitimate time this year, not a

(19:36):
Carson winz start. Notwithstanding so and last year. It's important,
you know, it's not nothing that the Eagles are able
to beat them at Arrowhead in a game that mattered
as much as any regular season game is gonna matter.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
And by the way, the Chiefs had the ball last, Right,
Let's not forget the fact that the Chiefs had the
ball last, and there was there was a very questionable
roughing the passer call that ended up giving the Chiefs
more chances that they were not able to capitalize on. Understand,
the Chiefs were probably worse last year than they were

(20:12):
this year, and the Eagles were worse last year than
they were this year in almost every category that actually matters,
besides probably passing yards and passing touchdowns. So I mean,
let's not go off and say, like, we don't think
that Patrick Mahomes is unbeatable, right, but there are a

(20:37):
lot of things that the Chiefs do, and there are
a lot of ways that the Chiefs outsmart their opponents
in order to win football games. It's not like we
can all look at the Chiefs record this year fifteen
to two and a lot of people could say, well,
they got very lucky. Well, I hate to break into people,
but you need luck to win a championship. You can't

(21:00):
win a championship with just skill alone. No one has
in my mind, no one has ever done it. But
but you can look at the record and you could say, well,
in this game they had a block field goal, and
this game they had a double doink field goal, and
this game they had a very particular uh pass interference

(21:24):
call help them, you know, ice the game. And in
another game there was a past interference call that probably
should have been called that wasn't called. You could say, like, oh,
you know, maybe they have Isaiah likely big. They were
a likely was too big.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
But you might Or you throw a pass that bounces
off a Falcons defender's knee right into a receiver's hand
and picks up a U first down, or all goes
right through Julio Jones.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Hands exactly, or you know, uh, Matthew Stafford thinking that
Pukakua or whoever the receiver is is actually the line
you get. Or you know, a Packers return man fumbles
the ball and recovers his fumble, but the refs don't
are not able to see the upwards version of the play,

(22:12):
so every team gets lucky and the Chiefs are just
better than other teams at getting lucky.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, So I have two lightning ground questions for Hank
before we get our closing things in, and then we
were going to start with the Hall of Fame that
did not happen. We're going to end with the Hall
of Fame talk here today. I'm trying to remember what
the second question was. Oh okay, So first question, when
someone asks you what year did the Eagles win the

(22:42):
Super Bowl? What answer does your brain give you?

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
So that's the correct answer. But I swear in these
conversations they're interchangeable for most teams because the season is
one time, and the Super Bowl happens the year later,
and it gets I have this shirt, doesn't have it,
but I have shirts that say like twenty eighteen super
Bowl on it. Because that's not a lie. It's not

(23:09):
not true, but it's it's a very mind numbing thing
when you talk about it as much as you know
it gets talked about.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
Sometimes Kelly thinks the opposite way. She kind of thinks
the Madden way. Like Madden two thousand and five came
out in two thousand and four, it didn't come out
in two thousand and five, and Madden sixteen came out
in twenty fifteen. It did not come out in twenty sixteen,
So she would say a very similar thing.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Because in a way, the Madden matches the Super Bowl
of that year when you think about it.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, right, well until twenty five.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I was gonna say, wait until you give her the
PS three PS four version of Madden.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, this year should or next year should have been
Madden twenty five to two is what they should have
called it. But you know that's right. Yeah. Other question,
regardless of what happens on Sunday, were we wrong about
Jalen hurt Yes. I think we just have to say
that at this point because he's already done more than
either of us ever thought he would.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yeah. My first gut reaction to the Philadelphia Eagles drafting
Jalen Hurts was, what in the world are you doing
like we have Carson Wentz. He's two years removed from
the best season that anyone's ever had as a Philadelphia

(24:30):
Eagles quarterback in terms of passing touchdowns. He is one
season removed from having throwing for the only four thousand
yard season in Philadelphia Eagles history. With guys who the
Eagles picked off the streets, right, I'm thinking to myself,
what are you like, what are you thinking? Like? What

(24:52):
is in your head that you're thinking like, we need
to draft a quarterback in the second round. And the
explanation was, well, what if Carson Wentz gets injured again
and we need him. And at the time, I was
a Carson Wentz stan. Anytime anybody, any Cowboys fan on

(25:14):
the internet had anything negative about Carson Wentz to say,
you know, I was his public defender. I thought, why
in the world would you ever do this? You're just
killing this dude's confidence. You know, he didn't have a
bad season the previous year. He didn't have a great

(25:34):
The team didn't have a great season, but it wasn't
I didn't feel like it was just because of him.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, he dragged his kicking and screaming into the playoffs,
like he said, and I.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Was just I was I was just angry. I was
just angry at Howie Roseman. I thought that, you know,
he took a team that went to the super Bowl
that he made that I gave him credit for that.
He helped construct by himself, and he just tanked it right
into the toilet. And I was just incredibly mad, and

(26:02):
I was incredibly bitter. But I think it took me
throughout that whole season to think, to myself, you know,
this dude is just not it like Carson Wentz is
just he's just not playing well. I think he like
led all quarterbacks and turnovers. We had three wins with him.
I think that the biggest the biggest issue that I

(26:27):
think we both had with Jalen Hurts. And we've had
many conversations about this. You know, the Eagles social media,
they're very much like Jalen Hurts defenders. I there is
only one quarterback that I will ever defend in my
whole life, and his name is Nicholas Foles. That is
the only guy I will ever stand here to defend

(26:47):
to the death. Like there's just like there's probably someone
on the internet who defends Gardner Minshew to the death.
I don't know why, but I will say that, yeah,
he is he is he and he he lives in
a he lives in a van down the river. I
will say that that I that he's definitely played better

(27:12):
than I thought he was going to be. He hit
his draft stock. Most people would say that he was
probably anywhere between a third and a fifth rounder. He's
played better than I thought he was going to play.
I think he's a better leader than I ever thought,
than than Carson Wentz ever was. And you know, he helps

(27:34):
the team win games. But I think that the one
thing that Jalen Hurts is not that a lot of
these other quarterbacks are is for the whole season. They
are guys who the team can rely on. I I
think that, and I'm not going to discount Jalen Hurts

(27:55):
in any way. We've never had a quarterback do what
Jaylen Hurts did go to two Super Bowls, like not
even with McNabb, not even with Cunning some of the
best quarterbacks we've ever had in our team's history, right,
But I think that with the way that the team
is structured, with good receivers, really good line that he

(28:20):
is able to manage things more than just be the guy.
And even in even in twenty twenty one, where the
team where the like Devonte Smith was the team's best receiver,
they won nine games and he won eight of them.
But I'm I'm just going to stand here and say

(28:41):
that like I was wrong, I was wrong about him.
Even if he doesn't win the Super Bowl. I didn't
even I wouldn't have even expected him to go to
the Super Bowl. I was just so mad, right, but
with the fact that he has to go up against
the guy who is technically the goat right now, he
has a lot on his plate that he needs to

(29:02):
take care of to go up against that defense.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Nick, I appreciate your patience in this segment. I'll be
very quick with my answer to this. The best thing
about having a podcast, as long as I've had one
is that I don't have to keep my own receipts.
They're just there for me. And if I go back
far enough, for some people that'd be a problem. But
when you think before you speak, you really don't get
caught that much because you know you're being reasonable and
you're in your thoughts and you're feeling. Some people need

(29:26):
to take notes on that. Nobody on this screen, but
on other screens. I remember saying I don't listen because
I reacted everything Hank said. I felt as well, And
then I paused and said, I need to rephrase here.
I don't think the guy's a bum. I think he
could be a average quarterback, above average quarterback. He might
even make some pro Bowls, but he's not the guy

(29:46):
you're gonna build the championship team around. And in a
way we did not in the sense that he's Superman,
not in the sense that he's Batman. We have two
Batman's on the outside, but evenan night Wing at best. Like,
you didn't build the team around him, but you build
a championship team with him at the center of it.
He may not be who the solar system evolves around,
but he's at least one of the planets. And that's

(30:07):
more than I ever thought. So win, loser, draw, lights
go out. We got to finish the game on Monday.
I was wrong about Jalen Hurts because I never expected
this trip and it's happened twice, so that much. I
gotta say, for sure, you.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Do this stuff long enough, you're going to be wrong
about to say. And yeah, it's not dead wrong, it's
not saying like you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
The time I was most wrong was when we drafted
Zach Ertz and I was like, guy, seems early athletic,
but we have Brent Selick. What are we doing? Fast
forward a couple of years. That same tight end catches
the game winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. So to
quote a certain Fox host, I don't care about being right.
I care about getting it right. So if they get
it right, and they have gotten it right, you know,
because how often do you go to two Super Bowls?

(30:54):
The only active coach there's what three active quarterbacks right now,
Russ Wilson, who's I don't know if he's active or
not because he just got released again, Mahomes being at
More and now Hurts is that's the only active quarterbacks
that have been to multiple Super Bowls. So that's you know,
that's that's some company right there.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Jimmy Garoppolo, did he go to two? I guess he's
a few times as a backup, that's true.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
And speaking of backups through and then I'm throw it
to Nick because I know we've had him sitting there
way too long. The Eagles are undefeated in super Bowls
where Carson Wentz is on the bench, So we'll hope
we keep that up.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Very interesting. Two things One we should also, I guess
I never vocally maybe I did about Nix to you
or Annie said I'm not quite sure about him, But yeah,
I was wrong for you as about it. I'm sure
I don't know how you guys felt about him, but
just his his antics off the field kind of bothered me.
I remember that first opening interview or I'm thinking, there's

(31:52):
no way a guy who struggles this much at a
simple press conference could be an elite coach, And I
was wrong about that.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
So I think I'm not even convinced it's the same
guy that was up there that first day, Like it's
not even I don't know, you hang out with big
Dom long enough, you just you know, that's the second
worst press conference to open it. I think that the
jackson new Jacksonville coach just just took the belt on
that one.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Kind of a chill guy. I wonder if he's gonna
be the next Sianic.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
I mean, if he takes into a super Bowl, all
A Duvall is gonna be saying it that way instead.
But I don't know how you screw that up. Like
I live close enough to Jacksonville that I know the
proper way to say that, and that's not that at all.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, I think he's just weird like Suryanic. I think
was just nervous, like that was the difference.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
And you know a lot of people say what you said,
They don't love his you know, attitude or whatever, but like,
you can't really have that much different of an attitude
and coach a team in Philly. Like Andy Reid was
different because he was already he was around the league
enough that people kind of already knew what he was about.
And he was a little more goofy and eccentric in
his early years too. People forget about that, like when

(33:02):
they won the division. When they won the division for
the first time, in the locker room, he's like, your
guys' heart's as big as my waist and everyone's you know,
laughing and throwing water on him. So he was a
little you know, he's he's buttoned up because he's got
nothing to prove anymore too, So that's that's part of that.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Yeah. Well, actually on that point real quick, me and
Hankin talked about it. I'm sure Hank has talked to
you about it too, about how Andy kind of a
lot of big games you really struggle. Yeah. I wonder
if Nick Sirianni's personality fits better in those close games
because he doesn't care that Philly media is going to
crush him for last year or whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
So I mean, he might fit someone like Doug Peterson
handled Philly media as good as anybody can handle it.
And he's not a you know, he's not a blue
chip coach. He's just a good coach that knew the
team he had and knew how to put him in
position to win.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
I think a lot of it had to do with
the fact that Andy Reid was kind of like a
Midwestern guy, you know, going to college at like BYU
and live in that area. But Nick Sirianni is literally
from New York, Like he went to college in New York,
and he's straight up Italian and like what like a

(34:09):
corll Philly fans are Italian, so like at least, but
I think that it's a situation where, you know, Andy
Reid also never had as much offensive talent as Nick
Sirianni did. Now, you know, you could argue that that's
his fault because he never brought that talent in and

(34:31):
the the real chance that he had to bring in
talent like Steve Smith or Chad Ocho Cinco or one
of those guys, he never He Instead, he drafted Freddie Mitchell.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
I mean, he did get better at that over time,
Drafting Sean Jackson Jeremy Macklin, the tight end, Sean McCoy.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Could get better at it, but by then it was
too late. Yeah, for sure, But by then it was
like he was getting to the end of his time.
And I I think that, I think that, you know,
he was in a city where you get often criticized
for anything that you do, whether you deserve it or not,

(35:13):
and I just don't think that he could really take
it anymore. And then his son son died, and then
he was just like, all right, I'll go to a
much smaller market, well where I'll be appreciated more and
have a really good platform of defensive players, to.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Oh, yeah, I don't I don't think that, or what
I don't think to this day, him losing his son
gets factored in enough about how everything shook out, Not
that it's something you want to bring up, but it's
a very important piece of that puzzle. But yeah, he
went from a guy who would have been known as like, damn,
he was so close, he like this close to greatness,

(35:51):
and now like he could have his own Hall of
Fame wing at this point, regardless of what happens on Sunday.
Speaking of the Hall of Fame, that's a pro segue.
Only remember is going into the hole this year. That's
the smallest class in like fifteen years or something. So
we're gonna run through this. I'd attempt to keep my
voice a little bit longer. The headliner, in my opinion,

(36:13):
is going to be the eagle in here. But when
you look at it, you know, just as a when
you look at it bluntly, the highlight here is, without
a doubt, Chargers tight end Antonio Gates. Nick had to
sit and listen to us talk for a minute. Nick,
take it away. What does this mean to you as
a charge of him?

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Well, first of all, I should have gotten in last year.
I mean, there was rumors on social media like, oh
maybe I think he got suspended once for taking some
sort of ped or whatever. I don't know if that's true.
Even if it was, it is so silly most touchdowns
among a tight end ever, And like I say this
to you guys now, now, maybe maybe it's not true.

(36:51):
But at the time, when I was watching Gates and
LP and Rivers and all that stuff, I did not
know how good I had it. Granted I was young
as a fan, but to this day that was the
best I mean, I would set my alarm to watch
Charger games. Now if I miss it, that stinks, but

(37:12):
I'm not losing sleep. I lost sleep over missing a
Charger game before because we had this incredible talent. It
just Antonio Gates. You had to watch him every weekend.
The guy seemingly was always dealing with a turf toe
or some weird nagging injury, but he always played and
was just always open. He reminds me of like a
young Travis Kelcey where he's you look at him on TV,

(37:36):
he looks slower than the average player, but somehow he's
always open. And that was Antonio Gates. Just what a
special time it was watching the Chargers and watching Gates
because that guy was awesome and he brought his own
flavors being a former Kent State basketball player. Because those
jump balls in the end zone, man, it was not
a fifty to fifty ball, It was eighty twenty and

(37:56):
he was coming down fit.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Hank, your thoughts, wasn't he undrafted too?

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah, completely undrafted. Guy who comes from out of nowhere,
comes onto the scene in two thousand and three, and
it doesn't he become a pro bowler in two seasons,
and you know, he's got some really good passers throw
into him, Philip Rivers and Drew Brees, and you know,
I think that it's one of those things where the Chargers,

(38:28):
you know, do have quite a few Hall of famers,
and they are guys who we will all remember, you know,
straight down the line.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
But I feel like with Antonio Gates, he is the
one who you can say literally came out of nowhere
and no one. No one would have expected it, or
they probably would have. He probably would have been a
first or a second round draft pick. I mean you
put him and you put LT, and LT was like
the second or third overall pick in the two thousand

(39:01):
and one NFL draft. So I feel like if he
would if you made a Mount Rushmore of undrafted players,
he would probably of like the last thirty years, he
would probably be on there.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Actually, to that point, Mount Rushmore a tight ends to me.
He's on. There's Tony g and Travis Kelcey, and then
I'm forgetting the name.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I mean maybe Gronk, maybe Gronk Tony g engaged to me.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
And then you know, for old schoolers, maybe you can
go Mackie or new some of the Browns, but you
know those guys Gates revolutionized the position.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, in the modern NFL, everyone's looking at basketball players
to be their tight end. Like I said, just broke
the mold. Everybody even now is looking for that. And
you know this is more common in baseball where some
people maybe they don't live in a in a baseball
city and they just watched it for the love of
the sport and they have like an American League team
and a National League team. In the NFL, fans aren't like, oh,

(40:06):
I have an NFC team and an AFC team. But
growing up, if I did, it was one thousand percent
the Chargers because, like you said, they we must watch
television like if your team, if the Eagles lost that week,
I at least forgot about it for a couple of
minutes because the Chargers were the late game and I
get to watch something. I get to watch Rivers and
Tomlinson and Sean Merriman and Antonio Gates. So just like people,

(40:32):
to me, they're like the greatest show on turf without
the ring. Like they're like, they're very comparable in teams
in my opinion. And he was at the forefront of that.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, man, it just really is unfortunate, you know. And
Gates was part of that too, that the Chargers had
so many failed playoff runs. I can't remember one playoff
moment of Antonio Gates been in the regular season. Dube
was unguardable, So congratulations to him. To me, it's a
year overdue. He should have been in last year. Shout
out to Sterling Sharp. He was more than a year overdue.

(41:03):
That guy was crazy good. Eric Allen I never saw
much of him, but Jared Allen I saw a lot of. So,
you know, the four guys fantastic additions and obviously my
favorite skates.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, we'll touch on the other three in a minute.
But to wrap this one up, three first team All Pros,
two second team, eight Pro Bowlers, He's in the All
Decade Team for the two thousands Chargers fiftieth Anniversary in
the Chargers Hall of Fame, and his number forty four
is retired at Kent State. So these Jared Allen is

(41:37):
the next one on this list. This is someone that
he's from the era that we pretty much saw his
entire career, and I think this is a guy that
gets in off of volume and longevity, and he was
easily one of the best d ends of his time,
which I think to get in the Hall of Fame
in any sport, it's an unperfect system, right. Some guys

(41:57):
get in for one reason, some get in for another.
He is somebody that I don't think. One thing you
shouldn't get in for is if you were never at
least like a top three at your position at any
given time. And I think there was a there was
a speck of time there. Maybe it's only two three
years that that he is that, And I think he
gets in off of he gets in off his Vikings career.

(42:19):
You know, he played for what the Panthers. He started
with the Chiefs back when that wasn't a good place
to be. A few other played the Bears, I think.
But really he's in because of his time in Minnesota.
You could cut off the beginning and end of his career,
and I think the Minnesota is why he's there. I
would not have stopped my feet if he didn't get in.
But I have no real qualms about Jared Allen getting in.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, no, me neither. I'm a little bug that if
you let Jared Allen in that some other guys didn't
make it this year that I'm sure we'll touch on.
But yeah, we played him a couple of times and
he and the Chargers did and he really was a
nightmare to cover. I don't think he ever maybe he
led the league in side time at most one. I

(43:02):
don't think he led at all, to be honest, but
you know he was. He was a huge difference maker.
I can't even think of anyone else in that D line.
It was. It was all Jared Allen for a lot
of that Minnesota career, so you had to think he
was being double teamed and focused on, and he still
was very productive. So totally, I don't, like you said,
I'm not bothered by it.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Ank what you got for Jared Allen.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
I think you guys, you guys touched on I mean,
you know, face of the defensive line for like three
or four years, like what two thousand and eight, all
the way to like twenty eleven. He was an amazing
defensive end and you know, didn't get to a Super Bowl,

(43:48):
but got to I think I believe he got to
an NFC Championship game. And I do know that a
lot of Vikings fans they they if you didn't have
an Adrian Peterson Jersey. You probably had Jared Allen Jersey.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, that's a great way to look at that. For sure.
I think the only a distant third would be like
Antonio Winfield senior maybe in that era. But yeah, it's
definitely the one or two Jared Allen. Four first team
Pro Bowls, five Pro Bowlers, two times sack leader, nick
O seven and eleven. Wow, he was on the Rookie
All Rookie Team and four disrespecting Minnesota Vikings Ring of Honor.

(44:25):
He's listed as a top fifty Viking of all time,
number forty one. Retired at Idaho State. Shout out to
the Bengals there. This one's intriguing. He holds two NFL records.
He has the most safeties in a career with four
and most in a season with two. Those are both.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Does not count.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I don't think that's it.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
I don't think yeah, because he was Jason was.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
If anything, that's a quarterback rush. I don't. We'd have
to early research.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Would be able to look at that.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
That would take a minute. I We'll have that for
the next episode. You have all right, cool, cool, cool,
next up, trying to steal away?

Speaker 2 (45:06):
I mean, yeah, it technically shouldn't count, but I don't
think that would be his.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
But we'll have to That's gonna take a board day
at work for me to dig into that information. Yeah,
the next we have Packers wide receivers throwing Sharp. This
guy I saw like late in his career, definitely didn't
see him in his prime. I have Packers fans of
my family, so I've seen the ninety five Super Bowl
enough times to like see what he was. Granted he

(45:31):
retired right before that actually, so he was not on
that championship team. I think if he stayed one more year,
regardless of like how well he plays, that ring projects
him in a couple of years earlier. But you know,
early favorite for Brett Favre. And you know, shit, when
Shannon Sharp got in the Hall of Fame, he said
in his speech, you know, I'm the first guy to

(45:53):
make the Hall of Fame and be the second best
football player in my own family. That's how much you
know he he looked at. And in modern time, you
know when guys getting ducted, it used to be that
same guy, I forget his name from NFL films that
would surprise guys let him know they're in now that
he's no longer with us. You know, they find fun,
creative ways to do it. LT did it for Gates

(46:14):
and then they had Shannon do it for Sterling, which
was really cool. If you haven't seen that video, definitely
searched that out. But yeah, just a really good receiver.
Like I said, I think like he couldn't be denied.
I don't like moving the goalpost on Hall of Fames.
I think you're a Hall of Famer. If you're not,
it shouldn't be like if you're not a first ballot
you're less than for some reason. Because it's an imperfect

(46:35):
system anyway, So over the years, his plaque isn't gonna say,
you know, Hall of Famer took five years to get
in or whatever the case. So that's that's not the case.
But you guys, I said, this one was a little hard.
This is just outside of our generation of watching. But
if you guys got anything on Sterling chart.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, I guess just like there has to be a limit,
and I think for me, my comfort is he's right
at the limit. Like you gotta play at least seven
years six seven years in the league, Like even if
you're the best at your position, there you know, because
how valuable is someone who's amazing for a couple of years,
Like there's a limit there. I think he's right at

(47:13):
the limit. So I would have been find him going
in a long time ago. But you know, certainly no
one is mad that he's not in. He totally deserves it.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I think that there's I think there's one player in
the in NFL history who was in the league for
five years and he got into the Hall of Fame,
that Jaguars offensive lineman.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
I think he's the only one who's been in the
he was in the league for five years. I think
he got what that's it. He got. He got two things.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
For you to look at Phil during your board.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
I will give you a little bit on BISSELLI real quick.
He was the first signed player to the Jaguars. He
has that fame when they were an expansion team, and
then in two thousand and two he was the first
ever Houston Texan as well, so he does have and
he has now been added to the Jaguars front office too,
So that's what he's doing these days.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Yeah, and O line is so hard, right, you don't
have stats to go off of. You do have all
Pros and Pro Bowls. But that's a really different It's
a really hard one to argue too. Like I can't
imagine someone getting on the they're no great about an
alignment because like if they played long enough, which in
this case he didn't. But in general, like if you
start for a decade and a half, you're probably good
at it. Like they're not gonna keep you in if

(48:25):
you're if you're not. But back to throwing, sharp, real quick,
three All Pros, five time Pro Bowler, three time receptions
leader eighty nine ninety two and ninety three receiving yards
leader in ninety two, two time receiving touchdown leader ninety two,
ninety four Packers Hall of Fame. His number two jersey
is retired at South Carolina. This now leads to the

(48:47):
main event for US again. I feel Gates is probably
the headliner in this class. Eric Allen Eagles cornerback of
you know, Yester year definitely before my time. But you
don't become an Eagles fan without hearing about the greatness
of Eric Allen. I always thought, you know, i'm around
Eagles fans, they're gonna tell me how great he was.
I didn't realize it was appreciated by the league as

(49:10):
the whole, and maybe it took a little longer than
I would have thought, but it was really cool to, like,
we love Brian Dawkins in Philly. The fact, I didn't
think the rest of the league was gonna look at
him as like the first ballot, second ballot Hall of
Famer that he is. So that was really nice to see,
you know, back in seventeen. It's kind of like that
with this Eric Allen is like he's in the early

(49:32):
nineties as the team was good before Kinna Ham got
hurt or whatever. He was a big part of that
defense in ninety two. That was the first defense I
think to be number one overall in pass and rushed
in the same year. He had a lot to do
with that secondary. There was other great guys on that secondary.
I don't know that any of them will get in
the Hall of Fame. So he kind of represents that
era of Eagles defense, just guys on the line, Reggie White,

(49:55):
Jerome Brown, will Drome Brown didn't play long enough for
Reggie White, Seth Joyner potentially you know, on the line
or whatever. So he really represents the secondary of those
legendary early nineties Eagles defense. Hank, what about you, I
think you might have a little more memory of Eric
Allen than me.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Honestly, I probably don't. I think we probably started watching
it around the same time, like in the mid nineties.
I honestly, I just have I just have old film
of viewing of Eric Allen. I think that the highlight
of Eric Allen's career was the interception return for a

(50:34):
touchdown against the New York Jets in the ninety season,
where he probably he ran probably two times more than
the touchdown in yardage on the field that he actually
ended up returning it for Like he was like running
up the field down, like up the sideline, down the sideline,

(50:55):
and he like it was kind of like a video game,
if I can really explain it the best way. And
I think, like what he had like four interceptions in
one game or something like some something super ridiculous like that,
Like he had like the most interceptions in a game
in Eagles history. And I remember thinking, like, he's definitely

(51:17):
not a big name. Like if you asked the average
like if you asked the Chiefs fan, who who's Eric Allen?
They'd probably be like, I don't know. Some guy. You know,
some guy down the street make me a sandwich. I
don't know, but but like, like he's just one of
those guys who it is probably the closest thing to

(51:42):
Dion Sanders that the Eagles had at cornerback, Like not
not like a super big guy, but like a fast
guy who knew how to catch the ball. Like I'm
not saying that Eric Allen is Dion Sanders or Prime
Time or co Prime, but he's he was a fast

(52:02):
guy who could catch the ball and score and intercept
the ball and score touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Yeah, I would call him the blueprint for guys like
Darrell Reeves and a Sante Samuel that came a decade later.
I think he was kind of like that those that's
the kind of guy that those players grew up to
be were watching at the time. And Nick, here's a
little connection for you from San Diego. Went to Arizona

(52:28):
State and is in the Where do you go the
San Diego Hall of Champions which is apparently a sports
museum in.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
St that's for every sports, high school, college, pro Yeah
they haven't.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
It's at It's at pet Goo Park. It's connected to
where the where the Padres play.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
Yeah, that's that's so cool. I've only seen one. Now,
I really like the guy, but like our you know,
Eric Allen. I've only seen one clip and it was
that return against the Jets, and I figure any other
clip I'm gonna watch is not gonna be anywhere near
as amazing as that. I mean, that is the most
amazing pick six I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah, I was labeled as sorry. It was labeled as
the greatest interception return for a touchdown in history by
NFL films at the time. He played for the Saints
and Raiders late in his career, but this is clearly
due to his Eagles stint from Ada to ninety four.

(53:28):
One time first team All Pro, two times second team
All pros, six time Pro Bowlers, was on the All
Rookie Team Eagles Hall of Fame Eagles seventy fifth anniversary team.
Maybe the shortest resume of anyone that got in this year.
But I don't know if it I don't want to
call it like nepotism, but he has worked closely in
the NFL. He's on the NFL PA board. I think

(53:50):
he was the chairman during the last CBA thing. I
don't know if he's still on that level, but you know,
maybe working close with the league. You know, when they
do his Hall of Fame thing, well they mentioned that
because you know, some guys get in in like baseball,
they were a pretty dang good player and then they're
an accomplished coach and that's kind of all mushed together,

(54:11):
kind of like in like basketball Hall of Fame too.
So I think just like an overall positive to the
game of football is why someone like Eric Allen gets in.
I think that's a good place to leave that.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think what we noticed this
year was the class other than Gates. To be honest,
every other player has a imperfect resume, and I think
Eric Allen was one. And you know guys that didn't
get in, Vinitary Keithley and Eli Manning, I mean they
all have imperfect resumes and the guys that got into too.

(54:43):
And I think the voters figured, yeah, you're gonna be
in the log jam next year because your resume is
it's really good, but we don't love it enough to
say you gotta be in.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
I think it's a I think it's commendable to only
put in four. While it's weird to look at such
a small class. It's better than oh, we're gonna throw
some people in so the class is bigger, you know,
I think that would have been a disservice as well.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Are they going to add in coaches and like other guys?

Speaker 2 (55:13):
I hope So I heard there was a guy. I
mean I not and yet I think there's guys that's
like they gotta be in.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
I mean, they're they're going in tomorrow, so they would
have announced it by Ana the time of recording. They're
going to go in on Saturday, so it would have
announced it. I would think.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Usually like seven players, seven right exactly?

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah, usually seven and up to nine in the past.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yeah, I heard you got to hit a requirement to
like a certain voting eighty per approval or something like this. Yeah,
but but yeah, to the coaches are totally logjam. I
don't even know the list, but I know the list
is crazy.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
They should do a coaches one at like mid season
to get the coaches done, because you don't have to
get players out that they I don't know they they
could do a whole separate one for the coaches in
my opinion if they're really that log jam. But and
I think that'd be a good idea. But guys, this
has been pretty therapeutic for me. I am slightly less
anxious now for what will happen in twenty four.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Our Giants fans, No therapy for you tonight. Okay, you
can argue all year about.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Eli and we would talk about the Luca trade, but
we are out of time. So maybe maybe next time
we can get into that. But I am very hoping
the next time I see these faces on my screen,
or the next time this face is on anybody's screen,
we have broken into our inner excellence. And I'm the
fan of a team that has two super Bowl championships.
That's why we play the game. We will find out.

(56:39):
No matter what happens, there will be tears and there
will be beers. So give them hell fly, Eagles fly.
Thank you guys for listening, and we'll see what happens
next time. Thanks guys, Cooper.

Speaker 5 (56:50):
They didn't bring us here to change the past. Say
that again, they didn't bring us here to change the past.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
That I at my strather, No no.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Prods. H m hm.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
H m hm m m h m hm