February 7, 2025 • 21 mins
In this episode, I answer a question from Lauren, a mom struggling with her almost 3-year-old’s intense attachment to her father. Her daughter experiences severe separation anxiety, especially at bedtime, making it nearly impossible for mom to comfort her without dad’s presence. I walk through why this attachment has developed and what steps Lauren (and any parent in a similar situation) can take to break the cycle. From setting clear boundaries to using the "be-with" attitudes and remaining neutral through emotional storms, I offer a step-by-step approach to help children learn self-regulation while preserving the parent-child relationship. If bedtime battles are a challenge in your home, I hope this episode serves you!
Ask Me Questions: Call (813) 812-5525, or email: brenna@thekidcounselor.com
Podcast HQ: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/
My Newsletter Signup: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/newsletter/
My Podcast Partner, Gabb Wireless: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/gabb/
Common References:
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
You're listening to the
Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you insight,
awareness,
and enlightenment about your parenting
and your relationship with your kids.
In today's episode,
I am answering a question from Lauren.
(00:23):
And Lauren's question is about her almost 3 year old
with severe parental preference and separation anxiety from her father.
So,
the scenario,
I'm gonna read parts of her email,
but the scenario is that
the child is so
anxiously attached to dad,
that
(00:44):
it's a battle all the time because if dad is not present,
the child cannot regulate.
And this is actually something that we hear about and deal with a lot.
I work with quite a few families at my center that are in the same situation.
So Lauren,
thank you so much for the email.
Thank you for sharing the story so that we can talk through this together.
(01:04):
So let me read parts of her email and then we'll dive in.
My almost 3 year old has been dealing with separation anxiety from my husband.
We're both in the house the same amount.
No one travels or is away from her more than the other.
We also have an 8 month old at home.
I would assume that the attachment grew stronger because of me being with the baby.
Lauren,
I absolutely agree with that.
(01:25):
We'll process that a little bit.
Whenever anything uncomfortable happens to her,
she immediately screams and cries for daddy.
Additionally,
our biggest problem right now is bedtime.
It's very rare that I can get her to bed without my husband having to go into the room
to curb the crying and screaming.
To be honest,
he's at the end of his rope hearing her scream his name every night over and over.
She has deep feelings and will not give in or calm down on her own.
(01:48):
I've tried being present with her while she cries,
giving her space,
but staying in her room and letting her know that I'm here to lay with her or snuggle
or whatever it is that she wants Daddy to do.
But when we reach an hour and a half of continuous screaming for him,
it feels cruel,
and he goes in to hold her until she calms down and
gets tired enough to fall asleep with him sitting on her bed.
(02:09):
People keep telling me to just let her cry,
but I don't think they know what it's like to have a toddler with deep feelings
who doesn't give up.
How can we break this cycle?
We use validating words,
we try to hold our boundaries,
try choices,
try to story play her in her bed,
a new stuffed animal,
a new nightgown,
etc.
Funny but not,
my husband is her currency,
and we can't afford it anymore.
(02:31):
OK,
so let's look at,
there's lots of layers here.
So let's look at each of these pieces individually.
The first is,
I absolutely agree with you,
Lauren,
that when the baby was born,
you had to be very present and engaged with the baby
and therefore dad became
the easy.
(02:52):
Security blanket and crutch because you were occupied with the baby,
so dad became her person,
if you will.
That is the nature of being dethroned as an oldest child.
It's also the nature of a predisposition
for anxiety.
In other words,
this isn't something that emerged right when the baby was born.
There was always a predisposition toward anxiety.
(03:13):
It has just
escalated quite a bit since the birth of the baby.
So we know that kids often have the nature and the nurture components.
In other,
in other words,
she is likely
to be a more worried,
anxious child by predisposition.
And then now it has escalated to a point where she can no longer rein it back in.
But
these circumstances,
(03:34):
meaning the
nature,
sorry,
the nurture part of it,
did not
create this.
This is something that has been there as an undercurrent
all along,
and now it has just ramped up.
OK,
so now we'll talk through
what anything uncomfortable happens to her.
She immediately screams and cries for daddy.
(03:55):
So what we know about that
is
Dad
has become her regulator.
The minute she has anything that she doesn't know how to handle.
She needs dad to calm her down.
And this is what happens in a lot of cases,
(04:15):
not necessarily about attachment,
but this will often happen with children whose parents
always swoop in and control their behavior for them.
Kids never learn what it feels like to regulate themselves.
So this is a very similar situation but with different circumstances,
obviously.
She quote needs dad to help her calm down.
(04:36):
She has no emotional regulation,
she has no self-control,
and she's reeling from these big feelings,
and she believes that her only way out
is for dad to fix it for her.
So let's pause there.
Let's go back to
play therapy principles.
The child-centered model says we are always communicating the 5 be-with attitudes.
(05:00):
For those of my vets that have been listening to me for a long time,
what are the 5 be-with attitudes?
I'm sure you all said them.
I'm here,
I hear you,
I understand,
I care and I delight in you.
So,
when we operationalize
those be with attitudes,
we are always trying to communicate and convey those five things to our children.
(05:23):
But here's what we do not convey,
and this is just as important.
It's just as important to think about what we want to communicate,
but also what we will not communicate,
and those three things,
less discussed,
so I won't pop quiz you on those.
Less discussed are
we will not always agree.
I cannot make you happy.
(05:43):
And I will not solve your problems.
So in this scenario.
We have 2 of the 3
in play.
She thinks that dad has to make her happy,
and she thinks that dad has to solve her problems.
The good news is,
and every single one of you that are in this scenario,
I know how prevalent this is,
(06:04):
so I know that many of you listening
have been in this situation with a child
for maybe a certain stretch of time or maybe
even right now or even in different circumstances,
but the scenario is the same.
Here's the good news.
She doesn't need
dad to solve her problems and she doesn't need dad to make her happy.
She just thinks so.
(06:26):
That's her default.
So the silver lining is she is fully capable
of solving her own problems and she's fully capable
of making herself happy.
But there needs to be a lot of skill building to get there.
So we'll talk about that in a moment.
Bedtime.
All right,
so now at this point,
what probably started as
(06:48):
an organic
genuine scenario.
She
went to bed,
she wanted dad.
Dad came in,
she fell asleep when he was in there.
That was just a circumstantial scenario.
Now it has become a conditioned habit and pattern of behavior.
Good news is
she can fall asleep without dad.
(07:10):
She's just defaulting to I have to have him.
He makes me happy.
He solves my problems.
We know that's not true.
We also know that any child is capable of falling asleep without someone in the room.
So,
we'll get there,
but
when
you go in
and
you are trying to
(07:31):
be there in his stead,
And you said she will not give in or calm down on her own.
Here's my pep talk for you,
Lauren,
at all,
all of you that
have
given in because you said your children will not give in.
Let me pep talk to you for a second.
I don't know if any of you watched the show Super Nanny,
(07:51):
but I loved that show.
Jo Frost,
she and I are kindred spirits.
I loved it.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about,
binge watch some episodes.
Supernanny had an episode
where it was the exact same scenario,
except it wasn't that the child wanted someone in the room,
the child would not stay in his bed.
(08:13):
Walked into mom and dad's room every night trying to sleep in mom and dad's bed.
So very similar circumstances.
Here's what happened.
Joe told Mom,
get ready for a long night.
I'm laughing because I vividly remember this episode.
Get ready for a long night.
(08:34):
And bedtime routine started,
put little boy in bed.
He got out of bed.
Mom walked him back to bed.
He got out of bed.
Mom walked him back to bed.
He got out of bed.
Mom walked him back to bed the whole time Joe was in her earpiece going.
You say
you'd really like to sleep in our bed,
but you're a big boy and your bed is where you sleep.
(08:55):
We're going back to your bed
and they time lapsed this
because it went on for hours in reality.
Time lapsed.
They kept a running counter at the bottom of the screen,
for how many times Mom put this child back in his bed.
And at one point she gave up even going back to her bedroom.
(09:16):
She slumped against the hallway wall right outside
his room with a pillow and a blanket,
and she was half asleep leaning up against the wall in the hallway,
and every time he came out of the room,
she got up and walked him back to his bed.
She didn't even go back to her room anymore because it was too far of a walk.
She was too exhausted.
The time lapse count.
If I remember correctly,
(09:36):
got to 180 something maybe.
The mom put him back in his bed 180 something times.
At some point did the little boy start crying?
Yes,
at some point did the little boy start screaming.
Yes,
at some point did the mom want to give in?
Absolutely.
At some point did the mom say this isn't worth it.
(09:58):
Yes,
at some point did the mom say he's not going to give up.
And guess what?
The little boy gave up on the 186th time.
And the whole point of me telling you the story,
Lauren,
et all,
is
when it's a battle of the wills,
one of you is going to give in
(10:18):
and it's not gonna be you.
This is the mentality that you have to have in a scenario like this.
I completely agree with you
that letting her cry it out is not an appropriate solution.
I've never once
believed that is helpful at any age for any reason with any child.
(10:40):
The whole mentality of let a child cry it out,
I absolutely hate it at its core.
I don't think that aligns with anything we know
about children and their needs and their wants,
and a child cries because they need something.
So to let them feel abandoned and just quote cry it out even as an infant,
this whole notion that leave an infant in their crib and let them cry it out,
(11:03):
it's nonsense,
in my opinion.
So I'm not in favor at all
of letting her cry it out.
But you're not going to give in.
This is the hinge pin.
She will eventually give in Lauren.
And I know you said several times
she doesn't give up
and she will not give in,
(11:24):
and she does not calm down on her own
and she will keep screaming and crying.
All of those are true,
and they have been true
to a point.
She will cry herself to sleep,
she will scream herself to sleep.
She will get so exhausted,
she will fall asleep standing up if she has to.
(11:44):
She will eventually
give in without Dad being in the room.
Now,
we don't abandon her,
we don't make her feel like she's alone.
We don't let her cry it out.
So here's where this comes in.
You go into the mental go in with the mentality,
one of us is going to give in and it's not going to be me.
Prepare yourself.
(12:05):
This is a battle.
Go into it saying no matter what happens I will not give in.
No matter what happens,
I will not give up.
You have to pep talk yourself.
I'm giving you one,
but you have to pep talk yourself too.
OK,
so once you've committed,
no matter what,
I will not give in.
(12:26):
I will win this battle,
and it will be my child that gives in.
OK,
so that's step 1,
step 2.
You very lovingly communicate the be with attitudes,
and you reflect her feelings,
and you help her feel heard and understood.
I'm here.
(12:47):
I hear you.
I understand,
I care,
and I delight in you.
You're sad,
you're angry,
you're upset.
You're irritated.
You're frustrated.
You wish Dad could be in here.
You really want to see him right now.
You validate,
(13:08):
validate,
validate.
Here's another thing that you can do
leading up to the night
that you are going to implement the I will not give up before she gives up strategy.
You may want to prepare her.
So,
I'm gonna say her name is Jane.
I don't know.
So you're going to say,
(13:29):
Jane,
you usually want to go to sleep with daddy in the room,
but
As of
such and such day,
such and such time,
such and such date,
whatever you want it to be,
as of this Friday,
as of tomorrow,
as of February 1st,
as of your birthday,
as of whenever,
the sooner the better,
(13:50):
but whatever date you want to pick,
Daddy's no longer going to be in the room every night with you.
And that's all you say.
You're setting an expectation,
you're letting her process it.
She's not even 3,
it will be a very emotional processing,
but she's at least aware this isn't going to catch her off guard.
And when said day comes.
(14:12):
You're going to
say,
OK,
tonight's the night that when you choose to go to bed,
dad's not gonna be in the room.
You can choose for me to be in the room or you can choose to go to sleep on your own.
Which do you choose?
Notice that you're giving her a choice.
You're returning responsibility.
(14:33):
You're letting her own
the consequences of her actions.
You're letting her understand that there are consequences.
All of those things are aligned with the child-centered approach.
And so you're gonna put her in bed,
Lauren
And whether she says she wants you to stay or she doesn't want you to stay.
(14:54):
The minute she calls for dad.
You start your
counter in the bottom of the screen.
OK,
I'm going to remind her every single time.
Today is Saturday
and dad's not gonna be in your room every night when you go to sleep anymore.
You really want him to be here,
but I'm in here with you.
(15:15):
She's going to scream,
she's going to cry,
she's going to yell for dad.
If your husband has to leave
so that he doesn't have to suffer through it,
encourage him to do so.
Get in the shower,
drown out the noise,
blare the music in the garage,
whatever,
whatever needs to happen.
If he can't handle it,
he can leave.
(15:35):
But Lauren,
the goal is
you reflect,
you validate,
help her feel heard,
help her feel understood.
You
communicate the be with attitudes,
you give her choices,
you do everything that adheres to the
I
care about you and I'm preserving our relationship.
(15:57):
You certainly do not shut the door and let her cry it out.
You remind her over and over and over again,
you really wish that you could be with dad but dad's not gonna be in your room tonight.
I'm in here though.
She's going to do all the things she normally does.
She might even ramp up more than normal because
she's not getting the pattern that she's used to.
(16:18):
Remember,
whenever we make a change,
it forces someone else to change.
She's not choosing this change,
you're forcing this choice upon her.
It might unnerve her even more than normal.
It might disregulate her even more than normal.
Be prepared,
Lauren.
If it escalates,
it's normal and it's OK.
If it is the worst it has ever been,
(16:39):
you are not giving in.
You are going to continue to do all the things that we're talking about calmly,
neutrally.
You're not gonna start crying,
you're not gonna lose your stuff,
you're not going to get angry,
you're not going to yell,
you're not going to
say I can't do this anymore.
(17:00):
You're going to
Condition yourself
to be calm and neutral.
All the while
repeating to yourself.
I'm preserving the relationship by being present and using these skills.
I'm not going to give in.
And this is a necessary means to an end.
(17:22):
One of
the best phrases anyone ever told me.
When I was in grad school,
one of my professors said,
and this is a common phrase,
but I had heard it from her first.
People will change.
Our children will change.
When the pain of change
is less than the pain of things staying the same.
(17:43):
You don't want
the pain of things staying the same anymore.
So you're willingly choosing the pain of change.
So when she escalates,
when she screams,
when she cries,
when it is the worst it has ever been.
You know this is a means to an end,
to get rid of the pain of things staying the same.
She will eventually fall asleep.
(18:06):
She will eventually stop crying.
Our nervous systems can only handle that heightened state for so long.
We have a natural checks and balances in our nervous system,
which calms us down after a certain amount of time.
We cannot sustain
that level of intensity of emotions for very long.
She will eventually calm herself down
(18:28):
by default,
not because she wants to,
she just has to.
She will eventually fall asleep.
And the next night you will do it again,
and it will probably be less of a battle,
and the next night you will do it again,
and it might even not even be a battle by that point.
But she will have learned lots of things.
She will have learned that she can calm down.
(18:49):
She will have learned that she can give in when she's unhappy.
She will have learned that dad is not the
one that solves her problems and keeps her happy.
She will learn that she does not need Dad to fall asleep.
And she will have learned the beginning of an emotional vocabulary.
These are the things that we want for our kids anyway.
(19:12):
So Lauren
I hope that encourages you.
I hope that encourages all of you,
because
so many parents face a scenario like this.
We have to constantly be mindful.
That we are kind to our children.
When we keep boundaries.
When you set a boundary,
(19:33):
the dad is not for staying in your room every night before you fall asleep.
You keep it
Because their safety and security in the relationship
when we are true to our word.
And we remain present.
I'm here.
I hear you.
I understand.
I care and I delight in you,
and you're having a hard time and you are sad and you are angry.
We do all of the things that help her feel that we get it,
(19:56):
but we don't cave.
And we remain neutral all the while.
All right,
Lauren,
thank you so much for the email.
I hope that that's helpful for you.
Hope that's helpful for everyone.
If you would like to email me a question,
I'd love to hear from you brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
That's Brenna with two N's and singular kid.
So brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
If you're in the states,
(20:16):
you can leave a voicemail for me,
813-812-5525.
And I hope that
you continue to remind yourself of why.
You're listening to this podcast
and why you're striving to be the best parent that you can be.
Because we want to preserve the relationship with our kids
for
(20:36):
our whole lives.
The relationship is at the heart of everything in parenting,
and the parent-child relationship sustains all.
So these are the ways that we sustain that.
So Lauren,
I appreciate you and thanks to all of you for listening.
Thanks to all of you for
the commitment you have to your family.
Hope that encourages you.
Talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to
(20:57):
the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.
You're listening to the
Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you insight,
awareness,
and enlightenment about your parenting
and your relationship with your kids.
In today's episode,
I am answering a question from Lauren.
(00:23):
And Lauren's question is about her almost 3 year old
with severe parental preference and separation anxiety from her father.
So,
the scenario,
I'm gonna read parts of her email,
but the scenario is that
the child is so
anxiously attached to dad,
that
(00:44):
it's a battle all the time because if dad is not present,
the child cannot regulate.
And this is actually something that we hear about and deal with a lot.
I work with quite a few families at my center that are in the same situation.
So Lauren,
thank you so much for the email.
Thank you for sharing the story so that we can talk through this together.
(01:04):
So let me read parts of her email and then we'll dive in.
My almost 3 year old has been dealing with separation anxiety from my husband.
We're both in the house the same amount.
No one travels or is away from her more than the other.
We also have an 8 month old at home.
I would assume that the attachment grew stronger because of me being with the baby.
Lauren,
I absolutely agree with that.
(01:25):
We'll process that a little bit.
Whenever anything uncomfortable happens to her,
she immediately screams and cries for daddy.
Additionally,
our biggest problem right now is bedtime.
It's very rare that I can get her to bed without my husband having to go into the room
to curb the crying and screaming.
To be honest,
he's at the end of his rope hearing her scream his name every night over and over.
She has deep feelings and will not give in or calm down on her own.
(01:48):
I've tried being present with her while she cries,
giving her space,
but staying in her room and letting her know that I'm here to lay with her or snuggle
or whatever it is that she wants Daddy to do.
But when we reach an hour and a half of continuous screaming for him,
it feels cruel,
and he goes in to hold her until she calms down and
gets tired enough to fall asleep with him sitting on her bed.
(02:09):
People keep telling me to just let her cry,
but I don't think they know what it's like to have a toddler with deep feelings
who doesn't give up.
How can we break this cycle?
We use validating words,
we try to hold our boundaries,
try choices,
try to story play her in her bed,
a new stuffed animal,
a new nightgown,
etc.
Funny but not,
my husband is her currency,
and we can't afford it anymore.
(02:31):
OK,
so let's look at,
there's lots of layers here.
So let's look at each of these pieces individually.
The first is,
I absolutely agree with you,
Lauren,
that when the baby was born,
you had to be very present and engaged with the baby
and therefore dad became
the easy.
(02:52):
Security blanket and crutch because you were occupied with the baby,
so dad became her person,
if you will.
That is the nature of being dethroned as an oldest child.
It's also the nature of a predisposition
for anxiety.
In other words,
this isn't something that emerged right when the baby was born.
There was always a predisposition toward anxiety.
(03:13):
It has just
escalated quite a bit since the birth of the baby.
So we know that kids often have the nature and the nurture components.
In other,
in other words,
she is likely
to be a more worried,
anxious child by predisposition.
And then now it has escalated to a point where she can no longer rein it back in.
But
these circumstances,
(03:34):
meaning the
nature,
sorry,
the nurture part of it,
did not
create this.
This is something that has been there as an undercurrent
all along,
and now it has just ramped up.
OK,
so now we'll talk through
what anything uncomfortable happens to her.
She immediately screams and cries for daddy.
(03:55):
So what we know about that
is
Dad
has become her regulator.
The minute she has anything that she doesn't know how to handle.
She needs dad to calm her down.
And this is what happens in a lot of cases,
(04:15):
not necessarily about attachment,
but this will often happen with children whose parents
always swoop in and control their behavior for them.
Kids never learn what it feels like to regulate themselves.
So this is a very similar situation but with different circumstances,
obviously.
She quote needs dad to help her calm down.
(04:36):
She has no emotional regulation,
she has no self-control,
and she's reeling from these big feelings,
and she believes that her only way out
is for dad to fix it for her.
So let's pause there.
Let's go back to
play therapy principles.
The child-centered model says we are always communicating the 5 be-with attitudes.
(05:00):
For those of my vets that have been listening to me for a long time,
what are the 5 be-with attitudes?
I'm sure you all said them.
I'm here,
I hear you,
I understand,
I care and I delight in you.
So,
when we operationalize
those be with attitudes,
we are always trying to communicate and convey those five things to our children.
(05:23):
But here's what we do not convey,
and this is just as important.
It's just as important to think about what we want to communicate,
but also what we will not communicate,
and those three things,
less discussed,
so I won't pop quiz you on those.
Less discussed are
we will not always agree.
I cannot make you happy.
(05:43):
And I will not solve your problems.
So in this scenario.
We have 2 of the 3
in play.
She thinks that dad has to make her happy,
and she thinks that dad has to solve her problems.
The good news is,
and every single one of you that are in this scenario,
I know how prevalent this is,
(06:04):
so I know that many of you listening
have been in this situation with a child
for maybe a certain stretch of time or maybe
even right now or even in different circumstances,
but the scenario is the same.
Here's the good news.
She doesn't need
dad to solve her problems and she doesn't need dad to make her happy.
She just thinks so.
(06:26):
That's her default.
So the silver lining is she is fully capable
of solving her own problems and she's fully capable
of making herself happy.
But there needs to be a lot of skill building to get there.
So we'll talk about that in a moment.
Bedtime.
All right,
so now at this point,
what probably started as
(06:48):
an organic
genuine scenario.
She
went to bed,
she wanted dad.
Dad came in,
she fell asleep when he was in there.
That was just a circumstantial scenario.
Now it has become a conditioned habit and pattern of behavior.
Good news is
she can fall asleep without dad.
(07:10):
She's just defaulting to I have to have him.
He makes me happy.
He solves my problems.
We know that's not true.
We also know that any child is capable of falling asleep without someone in the room.
So,
we'll get there,
but
when
you go in
and
you are trying to
(07:31):
be there in his stead,
And you said she will not give in or calm down on her own.
Here's my pep talk for you,
Lauren,
at all,
all of you that
have
given in because you said your children will not give in.
Let me pep talk to you for a second.
I don't know if any of you watched the show Super Nanny,
(07:51):
but I loved that show.
Jo Frost,
she and I are kindred spirits.
I loved it.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about,
binge watch some episodes.
Supernanny had an episode
where it was the exact same scenario,
except it wasn't that the child wanted someone in the room,
the child would not stay in his bed.
(08:13):
Walked into mom and dad's room every night trying to sleep in mom and dad's bed.
So very similar circumstances.
Here's what happened.
Joe told Mom,
get ready for a long night.
I'm laughing because I vividly remember this episode.
Get ready for a long night.
(08:34):
And bedtime routine started,
put little boy in bed.
He got out of bed.
Mom walked him back to bed.
He got out of bed.
Mom walked him back to bed.
He got out of bed.
Mom walked him back to bed the whole time Joe was in her earpiece going.
You say
you'd really like to sleep in our bed,
but you're a big boy and your bed is where you sleep.
(08:55):
We're going back to your bed
and they time lapsed this
because it went on for hours in reality.
Time lapsed.
They kept a running counter at the bottom of the screen,
for how many times Mom put this child back in his bed.
And at one point she gave up even going back to her bedroom.
(09:16):
She slumped against the hallway wall right outside
his room with a pillow and a blanket,
and she was half asleep leaning up against the wall in the hallway,
and every time he came out of the room,
she got up and walked him back to his bed.
She didn't even go back to her room anymore because it was too far of a walk.
She was too exhausted.
The time lapse count.
If I remember correctly,
(09:36):
got to 180 something maybe.
The mom put him back in his bed 180 something times.
At some point did the little boy start crying?
Yes,
at some point did the little boy start screaming.
Yes,
at some point did the mom want to give in?
Absolutely.
At some point did the mom say this isn't worth it.
(09:58):
Yes,
at some point did the mom say he's not going to give up.
And guess what?
The little boy gave up on the 186th time.
And the whole point of me telling you the story,
Lauren,
et all,
is
when it's a battle of the wills,
one of you is going to give in
(10:18):
and it's not gonna be you.
This is the mentality that you have to have in a scenario like this.
I completely agree with you
that letting her cry it out is not an appropriate solution.
I've never once
believed that is helpful at any age for any reason with any child.
(10:40):
The whole mentality of let a child cry it out,
I absolutely hate it at its core.
I don't think that aligns with anything we know
about children and their needs and their wants,
and a child cries because they need something.
So to let them feel abandoned and just quote cry it out even as an infant,
this whole notion that leave an infant in their crib and let them cry it out,
(11:03):
it's nonsense,
in my opinion.
So I'm not in favor at all
of letting her cry it out.
But you're not going to give in.
This is the hinge pin.
She will eventually give in Lauren.
And I know you said several times
she doesn't give up
and she will not give in,
(11:24):
and she does not calm down on her own
and she will keep screaming and crying.
All of those are true,
and they have been true
to a point.
She will cry herself to sleep,
she will scream herself to sleep.
She will get so exhausted,
she will fall asleep standing up if she has to.
(11:44):
She will eventually
give in without Dad being in the room.
Now,
we don't abandon her,
we don't make her feel like she's alone.
We don't let her cry it out.
So here's where this comes in.
You go into the mental go in with the mentality,
one of us is going to give in and it's not going to be me.
Prepare yourself.
(12:05):
This is a battle.
Go into it saying no matter what happens I will not give in.
No matter what happens,
I will not give up.
You have to pep talk yourself.
I'm giving you one,
but you have to pep talk yourself too.
OK,
so once you've committed,
no matter what,
I will not give in.
(12:26):
I will win this battle,
and it will be my child that gives in.
OK,
so that's step 1,
step 2.
You very lovingly communicate the be with attitudes,
and you reflect her feelings,
and you help her feel heard and understood.
I'm here.
(12:47):
I hear you.
I understand,
I care,
and I delight in you.
You're sad,
you're angry,
you're upset.
You're irritated.
You're frustrated.
You wish Dad could be in here.
You really want to see him right now.
You validate,
(13:08):
validate,
validate.
Here's another thing that you can do
leading up to the night
that you are going to implement the I will not give up before she gives up strategy.
You may want to prepare her.
So,
I'm gonna say her name is Jane.
I don't know.
So you're going to say,
(13:29):
Jane,
you usually want to go to sleep with daddy in the room,
but
As of
such and such day,
such and such time,
such and such date,
whatever you want it to be,
as of this Friday,
as of tomorrow,
as of February 1st,
as of your birthday,
as of whenever,
the sooner the better,
(13:50):
but whatever date you want to pick,
Daddy's no longer going to be in the room every night with you.
And that's all you say.
You're setting an expectation,
you're letting her process it.
She's not even 3,
it will be a very emotional processing,
but she's at least aware this isn't going to catch her off guard.
And when said day comes.
(14:12):
You're going to
say,
OK,
tonight's the night that when you choose to go to bed,
dad's not gonna be in the room.
You can choose for me to be in the room or you can choose to go to sleep on your own.
Which do you choose?
Notice that you're giving her a choice.
You're returning responsibility.
(14:33):
You're letting her own
the consequences of her actions.
You're letting her understand that there are consequences.
All of those things are aligned with the child-centered approach.
And so you're gonna put her in bed,
Lauren
And whether she says she wants you to stay or she doesn't want you to stay.
(14:54):
The minute she calls for dad.
You start your
counter in the bottom of the screen.
OK,
I'm going to remind her every single time.
Today is Saturday
and dad's not gonna be in your room every night when you go to sleep anymore.
You really want him to be here,
but I'm in here with you.
(15:15):
She's going to scream,
she's going to cry,
she's going to yell for dad.
If your husband has to leave
so that he doesn't have to suffer through it,
encourage him to do so.
Get in the shower,
drown out the noise,
blare the music in the garage,
whatever,
whatever needs to happen.
If he can't handle it,
he can leave.
(15:35):
But Lauren,
the goal is
you reflect,
you validate,
help her feel heard,
help her feel understood.
You
communicate the be with attitudes,
you give her choices,
you do everything that adheres to the
I
care about you and I'm preserving our relationship.
(15:57):
You certainly do not shut the door and let her cry it out.
You remind her over and over and over again,
you really wish that you could be with dad but dad's not gonna be in your room tonight.
I'm in here though.
She's going to do all the things she normally does.
She might even ramp up more than normal because
she's not getting the pattern that she's used to.
(16:18):
Remember,
whenever we make a change,
it forces someone else to change.
She's not choosing this change,
you're forcing this choice upon her.
It might unnerve her even more than normal.
It might disregulate her even more than normal.
Be prepared,
Lauren.
If it escalates,
it's normal and it's OK.
If it is the worst it has ever been,
(16:39):
you are not giving in.
You are going to continue to do all the things that we're talking about calmly,
neutrally.
You're not gonna start crying,
you're not gonna lose your stuff,
you're not going to get angry,
you're not going to yell,
you're not going to
say I can't do this anymore.
(17:00):
You're going to
Condition yourself
to be calm and neutral.
All the while
repeating to yourself.
I'm preserving the relationship by being present and using these skills.
I'm not going to give in.
And this is a necessary means to an end.
(17:22):
One of
the best phrases anyone ever told me.
When I was in grad school,
one of my professors said,
and this is a common phrase,
but I had heard it from her first.
People will change.
Our children will change.
When the pain of change
is less than the pain of things staying the same.
(17:43):
You don't want
the pain of things staying the same anymore.
So you're willingly choosing the pain of change.
So when she escalates,
when she screams,
when she cries,
when it is the worst it has ever been.
You know this is a means to an end,
to get rid of the pain of things staying the same.
She will eventually fall asleep.
(18:06):
She will eventually stop crying.
Our nervous systems can only handle that heightened state for so long.
We have a natural checks and balances in our nervous system,
which calms us down after a certain amount of time.
We cannot sustain
that level of intensity of emotions for very long.
She will eventually calm herself down
(18:28):
by default,
not because she wants to,
she just has to.
She will eventually fall asleep.
And the next night you will do it again,
and it will probably be less of a battle,
and the next night you will do it again,
and it might even not even be a battle by that point.
But she will have learned lots of things.
She will have learned that she can calm down.
(18:49):
She will have learned that she can give in when she's unhappy.
She will have learned that dad is not the
one that solves her problems and keeps her happy.
She will learn that she does not need Dad to fall asleep.
And she will have learned the beginning of an emotional vocabulary.
These are the things that we want for our kids anyway.
(19:12):
So Lauren
I hope that encourages you.
I hope that encourages all of you,
because
so many parents face a scenario like this.
We have to constantly be mindful.
That we are kind to our children.
When we keep boundaries.
When you set a boundary,
(19:33):
the dad is not for staying in your room every night before you fall asleep.
You keep it
Because their safety and security in the relationship
when we are true to our word.
And we remain present.
I'm here.
I hear you.
I understand.
I care and I delight in you,
and you're having a hard time and you are sad and you are angry.
We do all of the things that help her feel that we get it,
(19:56):
but we don't cave.
And we remain neutral all the while.
All right,
Lauren,
thank you so much for the email.
I hope that that's helpful for you.
Hope that's helpful for everyone.
If you would like to email me a question,
I'd love to hear from you brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
That's Brenna with two N's and singular kid.
So brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
If you're in the states,
(20:16):
you can leave a voicemail for me,
813-812-5525.
And I hope that
you continue to remind yourself of why.
You're listening to this podcast
and why you're striving to be the best parent that you can be.
Because we want to preserve the relationship with our kids
for
(20:36):
our whole lives.
The relationship is at the heart of everything in parenting,
and the parent-child relationship sustains all.
So these are the ways that we sustain that.
So Lauren,
I appreciate you and thanks to all of you for listening.
Thanks to all of you for
the commitment you have to your family.
Hope that encourages you.
Talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to
(20:57):
the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.
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