March 7, 2025 • 13 mins
In this episode, I answer a question from Sabrina about her 10-year-old daughter who suddenly refused to continue play therapy after just a few weeks. She now says she’d rather journal or talk with her mom instead. Sabrina wonders if play at home can bring the same results as therapy and how to navigate this resistance.
I explain the four phases of play therapy, why resistance is a natural and expected part of the process, and how avoiding therapy can reinforce anxiety rather than resolve it. I also discuss the key components that make play therapy effective—relationship, time, tools, and opportunity—and why results come from consistency and adherence to the process rather than just playing at home. Finally, I share how to approach this situation with validation and neutral limits, ensuring that her daughter continues therapy while still feeling a sense of control.
Ask Me Questions: Call (813) 812-5525, or email: brenna@thekidcounselor.com
Podcast HQ: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/
My Newsletter Signup: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/newsletter/
My Podcast Partner, Gabb Wireless: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/gabb/
Common References:
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
You're listening to the
Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you
insight,
awareness,
and enlightenment about your parenting and your relationship with your kids.
In today's episode,
I'm answering a question from Sabrina.
(00:25):
And Sabrina is asking about her daughter being in play therapy
and the process that has unfolded and some questions about it.
I know many of you are currently working with play therapists,
and I'm so happy about that.
And so I wanted to address this.
Sabrina,
thank you so much for the question.
So let me read parts of her email and then we'll dive in together.
(00:48):
My 10 year old daughter was going to therapy for less than a month.
She suddenly said she didn't want to go anymore,
but she would rather do journaling or the like with me.
I'm open to it,
but I'm unsure how to do this.
Listening to the episode on play therapy at home,
I find it hard to play because I don't know if I'm going
to get her to open up as she would in a therapy session
(01:08):
or see changes with just playing.
I've tried to encourage and remind about the time we allotted,
but it doesn't happen.
Will play really bring the results that I'm seeking?
Can you share your thoughts?
Sabrina,
this is a really helpful question,
so I'm really glad that you reached out.
So thank you.
OK.
So there's so many layers here.
So we're going to dive in and unpack them one at a time.
(01:29):
So let's start with the
main question that you're having is,
will play really bring the results that you're seeking?
So,
in the grand scheme of things,
the answer is yes,
but there are caveats.
So essentially
we do know that children work through everything that they need to
through their play.
So yes,
the,
(01:49):
the grand scheme answer is kids will work through stuff through their play.
However,
the missing component of a child playing
and not having other requirements
are the special relationship and the special environment.
So does your daughter have a special relationship with you?
Yes.
Can you create a special environment
(02:11):
in which she can
heal and sort through her things and process things?
Yes,
we call this the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity.
So there has to be consistent time,
there has to be tools which are
the playroom and the toys inside
and the opportunity created by the relationship.
So yes,
it's possible.
(02:32):
Without you being fully adherent and without you
really deeply understanding the skills and the principles
and interacting with her in therapeutic ways,
you will probably not get the results that you're seeking.
Now there is a filial program,
fancy word for family play therapy.
Which teaches parents
(02:52):
to use all of the skills and do play sessions at home.
That's called child parent relationship training.
Parents that complete that
and do play sessions at home,
there is success and they do see the results that they were hoping for,
but that's a 10 week parent training program
versus just
sitting down and playing.
So I wanna be really clear.
(03:14):
Does play heal?
Does play help?
Does play have significance for children?
Absolutely.
But
there are components that are required as well.
So they need to have the relationship,
they need to have the environment,
the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity.
OK,
so Sabrina,
you said that your 10 year old daughter was going to therapy for less than a month.
(03:34):
All right.
I'm not sure if you were
given the phases before you started play therapy,
but one of the things that we talk about a lot with parents.
Is that there are 4 phases of treatment.
The first is initiation and warm up.
We're essentially building rapport,
relationship,
bond,
trust,
all those things.
We're a stranger to your child when they first come to us.
(03:57):
So it typically takes 4 to 5 weeks
before the child knows what to expect,
feels comfortable with us,
has built a relationship with us,
feels connected enough that they can start the process.
However,
I'm hopeful that you were told that the second phase is resistance.
So for those of you that are actively working with a
play therapist or you're considering play therapy for your child,
(04:20):
which
most helpful thing you could do if your child is under 12,
by the way.
But
here's what I need you to know just in case this was missed or not communicated.
The second phase is resistance,
and resistance is
universal across all age ranges.
This is not just unique to children.
Adults do it too in therapy.
(04:41):
We say,
I don't wanna do this.
This is too hard,
this is too much.
This is too difficult,
this is too deep.
This is too scary,
this is too overwhelming.
I hate these feelings.
I hate having to go through this.
I'd rather just avoid it altogether.
We all do this
when we're in therapy.
So,
Sabrina,
it sounds very much so like your daughter hit resistance
(05:04):
and says,
I don't want to go anymore because it seemed too much.
This is a normal,
natural,
appropriate part of the process.
And when we think about phases,
so we have initiation,
then we have resistance.
Resistance is the gateway.
Resistance is something that we have to overcome.
(05:24):
And once we realize
I'm strong enough,
I'm brave enough,
I'm capable enough I can face this I trust myself.
I know that I need to do this,
all of those things.
It's a wrestling.
It's an internal battle that goes on.
And once the child says,
OK,
yes,
I can handle this.
Then
that's when they dive into the 3rd phase,
(05:46):
which is work.
And this is where the bigger changes start to take place.
So Sabrina,
it sounds as though your daughter hit resistance pretty hard after the 4th week,
which is very closely aligned to the standard.
So it's usually 4 to 5 weeks for initiation
and then resistance hits.
So when she says she doesn't want to go,
(06:08):
she'd rather do journaling with you or just hang out with you.
That's safe.
That's easy.
That is avoiding,
and it's an escape
from facing what she needs to face.
Kids know what they need to work on.
But it's hard and it's scary and it's too much sometimes.
So she says,
I don't want to do this
(06:28):
and
by
her saying I don't want to go to therapy anymore,
she is avoiding
the work that she needs to do.
Now,
I'm going out on a limb here,
Sabrina,
you did not share this with me.
But I've worked with kids for 20 years and I know patterns and I know how things go.
My gut tells me she's a highly anxious child.
(06:48):
And so when you have high levels of anxiety,
you try to control what you have control over
so she doesn't have control over her anxiety,
she doesn't have control over her feelings,
she doesn't have control over the circumstances,
but she can control
not
making everything worse in her mind.
So no,
I'm just not gonna do this therapy thing.
(07:10):
High levels of anxiety almost always have high levels of resistance.
So when a child just says,
no,
I'm not doing this.
I'm never coming back.
I'm not getting out of the car.
I'm not going in there.
I will not play.
I will not talk,
I will not do anything.
It's a grasp at control
because control
is the mitigation of anxiety.
(07:31):
Anxiety makes you feel powerless.
Taking control where you can makes you feel that you have some power.
So Sabrina,
it sounds as though
I,
I suspect she was highly anxious.
She used her control to say,
I don't want to do this anymore,
but here's what we need to know as parents.
This is really important.
If you all are considering play therapy or you're actively in
(07:51):
play therapy and or if you have a highly anxious child,
this is really important.
What happens is when we have highly anxious people in our lives,
specifically children.
The entire family structure starts to bend
to the anxiety.
We learn to concede,
we learn to give in,
we learn to not fight certain battles,
(08:12):
we learn to walk on eggshells,
we learn to tiptoe.
And all we want is for the big feelings and the high
levels of anxiety to go away cause it makes everything easier.
So what we end up doing is,
OK,
OK,
OK,
that's fine.
Because forcing her to go
would cause upheaval,
forcing her to go would cause a meltdown.
(08:32):
Forcing her to go would cause an hour-long fight.
So we learn
to acquiesce and just say,
OK,
OK,
OK,
that's fine.
And
with good intentions and
for preservation of sanity,
I completely understand.
But here's what happens when we do that.
When you have a highly anxious kid,
a big feeling kid,
(08:52):
avoiding doing something that's scary.
By saying,
OK,
you don't have to do that.
We are reinforcing the anxiety.
We are reinforcing the power grab.
And we are communicating to children
that they don't have to face the things that are overwhelming to them.
They develop learned helplessness.
(09:13):
They developed no sense of their own problem
solving and their own capacity to address things.
And
we actually become complicit
in the idea of
fight or flight.
So,
Sabrina,
the most helpful thing that you can do.
(09:33):
Is to get her back in therapy.
Because
allowing her to avoid it,
allowing her to resist it,
and just,
she doesn't have to go anymore.
You can see how that reinforces when something feels too big,
too scary,
too overwhelming,
just run the other way.
And that's not coping,
it's not resilience,
it's not problem solving,
(09:54):
it's not trusting herself.
It,
it's so many things that we need as adults we to be functional adults,
we need to know that we can face difficult things.
We need to know that we have the capacity to handle
situations.
We need to know that we can problem solve.
We need to know that we can trust ourselves.
We need to believe in our coping skills.
There are so many lifelong lessons that are
(10:16):
learned when kids have to face their stuff.
And so,
Sabrina,
I really appreciate the question.
I think this is helpful for so many people
and
we really just have to
reflect feelings.
And set neutral limits.
So here's what that would look like.
You really don't want to go to therapy,
(10:36):
but we have
weekly appointments on Tuesdays at 4.
You can choose what you do when we're there,
but we're going to the appointment.
So when you get there,
if she chooses not to go back to the playroom,
if she chooses to sit in the lobby,
if she chooses not to speak,
if she chooses to cry,
if she chooses to throw herself on the floor and kick and scream,
(10:57):
whatever it is,
she is ultimately in control of what happens at play therapy,
but
going
is a necessity.
In other words,
that's not part of the choice.
It's not you can choose to go or you can choose not to go.
It's we're going.
But you can choose to play or not to play when we get there.
You can choose to talk or not to talk when we get there.
(11:20):
So it shifts to a neutral limit,
but she needs to feel heard and validated.
It's scary
to go and
and do stuff that is new.
It feels like it's a lot
to go and play with this person every week.
You're not sure if you like this.
You're upset about going.
You feel unsure.
(11:41):
Etc.
etc.
She needs to be validated,
but then neutral limit is we have appointments scheduled on Tuesdays at 4
and that becomes the non-negotiable.
So Sabrina,
I hope that's helpful to you and everyone else.
Thank you so much for the question.
If you all would like to reach out to me,
I'd love to hear from you,
brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
(12:02):
By the way,
I don't mention this often,
but I know there are new podcast listeners all the time.
So first of all,
welcome.
So glad that you're here.
Season 2
is about almost 40 episodes in,
so if you are a new listener and you've been listening to season 2,
we did a little bit of a primer refresher at the beginning of season 2,
and we've been answering a lot of questions,
(12:23):
but
season one has more than 100 episodes
of all things play therapy,
child-centered play therapy,
parenting approaches,
tips,
strategies,
tricks.
So if you would like to go back and listen to season one,
there's a wealth of information there.
You can just search for episodes and topics,
and then you're able to pinpoint specific
(12:44):
things that have been addressed and discussed.
So if you're struggling
and you're wondering if there's a podcast episode,
there likely is.
So just search what you're curious about and see if in season 1 or season 2,
there will be an episode for you.
All right,
I appreciate you all so much.
Thank you for hanging out with me each week.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to
the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
(13:08):
For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.
You're listening to the
Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you
insight,
awareness,
and enlightenment about your parenting and your relationship with your kids.
In today's episode,
I'm answering a question from Sabrina.
(00:25):
And Sabrina is asking about her daughter being in play therapy
and the process that has unfolded and some questions about it.
I know many of you are currently working with play therapists,
and I'm so happy about that.
And so I wanted to address this.
Sabrina,
thank you so much for the question.
So let me read parts of her email and then we'll dive in together.
(00:48):
My 10 year old daughter was going to therapy for less than a month.
She suddenly said she didn't want to go anymore,
but she would rather do journaling or the like with me.
I'm open to it,
but I'm unsure how to do this.
Listening to the episode on play therapy at home,
I find it hard to play because I don't know if I'm going
to get her to open up as she would in a therapy session
(01:08):
or see changes with just playing.
I've tried to encourage and remind about the time we allotted,
but it doesn't happen.
Will play really bring the results that I'm seeking?
Can you share your thoughts?
Sabrina,
this is a really helpful question,
so I'm really glad that you reached out.
So thank you.
OK.
So there's so many layers here.
So we're going to dive in and unpack them one at a time.
(01:29):
So let's start with the
main question that you're having is,
will play really bring the results that you're seeking?
So,
in the grand scheme of things,
the answer is yes,
but there are caveats.
So essentially
we do know that children work through everything that they need to
through their play.
So yes,
the,
(01:49):
the grand scheme answer is kids will work through stuff through their play.
However,
the missing component of a child playing
and not having other requirements
are the special relationship and the special environment.
So does your daughter have a special relationship with you?
Yes.
Can you create a special environment
(02:11):
in which she can
heal and sort through her things and process things?
Yes,
we call this the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity.
So there has to be consistent time,
there has to be tools which are
the playroom and the toys inside
and the opportunity created by the relationship.
So yes,
it's possible.
(02:32):
Without you being fully adherent and without you
really deeply understanding the skills and the principles
and interacting with her in therapeutic ways,
you will probably not get the results that you're seeking.
Now there is a filial program,
fancy word for family play therapy.
Which teaches parents
(02:52):
to use all of the skills and do play sessions at home.
That's called child parent relationship training.
Parents that complete that
and do play sessions at home,
there is success and they do see the results that they were hoping for,
but that's a 10 week parent training program
versus just
sitting down and playing.
So I wanna be really clear.
(03:14):
Does play heal?
Does play help?
Does play have significance for children?
Absolutely.
But
there are components that are required as well.
So they need to have the relationship,
they need to have the environment,
the time,
the tools,
and the opportunity.
OK,
so Sabrina,
you said that your 10 year old daughter was going to therapy for less than a month.
(03:34):
All right.
I'm not sure if you were
given the phases before you started play therapy,
but one of the things that we talk about a lot with parents.
Is that there are 4 phases of treatment.
The first is initiation and warm up.
We're essentially building rapport,
relationship,
bond,
trust,
all those things.
We're a stranger to your child when they first come to us.
(03:57):
So it typically takes 4 to 5 weeks
before the child knows what to expect,
feels comfortable with us,
has built a relationship with us,
feels connected enough that they can start the process.
However,
I'm hopeful that you were told that the second phase is resistance.
So for those of you that are actively working with a
play therapist or you're considering play therapy for your child,
(04:20):
which
most helpful thing you could do if your child is under 12,
by the way.
But
here's what I need you to know just in case this was missed or not communicated.
The second phase is resistance,
and resistance is
universal across all age ranges.
This is not just unique to children.
Adults do it too in therapy.
(04:41):
We say,
I don't wanna do this.
This is too hard,
this is too much.
This is too difficult,
this is too deep.
This is too scary,
this is too overwhelming.
I hate these feelings.
I hate having to go through this.
I'd rather just avoid it altogether.
We all do this
when we're in therapy.
So,
Sabrina,
it sounds very much so like your daughter hit resistance
(05:04):
and says,
I don't want to go anymore because it seemed too much.
This is a normal,
natural,
appropriate part of the process.
And when we think about phases,
so we have initiation,
then we have resistance.
Resistance is the gateway.
Resistance is something that we have to overcome.
(05:24):
And once we realize
I'm strong enough,
I'm brave enough,
I'm capable enough I can face this I trust myself.
I know that I need to do this,
all of those things.
It's a wrestling.
It's an internal battle that goes on.
And once the child says,
OK,
yes,
I can handle this.
Then
that's when they dive into the 3rd phase,
(05:46):
which is work.
And this is where the bigger changes start to take place.
So Sabrina,
it sounds as though your daughter hit resistance pretty hard after the 4th week,
which is very closely aligned to the standard.
So it's usually 4 to 5 weeks for initiation
and then resistance hits.
So when she says she doesn't want to go,
(06:08):
she'd rather do journaling with you or just hang out with you.
That's safe.
That's easy.
That is avoiding,
and it's an escape
from facing what she needs to face.
Kids know what they need to work on.
But it's hard and it's scary and it's too much sometimes.
So she says,
I don't want to do this
(06:28):
and
by
her saying I don't want to go to therapy anymore,
she is avoiding
the work that she needs to do.
Now,
I'm going out on a limb here,
Sabrina,
you did not share this with me.
But I've worked with kids for 20 years and I know patterns and I know how things go.
My gut tells me she's a highly anxious child.
(06:48):
And so when you have high levels of anxiety,
you try to control what you have control over
so she doesn't have control over her anxiety,
she doesn't have control over her feelings,
she doesn't have control over the circumstances,
but she can control
not
making everything worse in her mind.
So no,
I'm just not gonna do this therapy thing.
(07:10):
High levels of anxiety almost always have high levels of resistance.
So when a child just says,
no,
I'm not doing this.
I'm never coming back.
I'm not getting out of the car.
I'm not going in there.
I will not play.
I will not talk,
I will not do anything.
It's a grasp at control
because control
is the mitigation of anxiety.
(07:31):
Anxiety makes you feel powerless.
Taking control where you can makes you feel that you have some power.
So Sabrina,
it sounds as though
I,
I suspect she was highly anxious.
She used her control to say,
I don't want to do this anymore,
but here's what we need to know as parents.
This is really important.
If you all are considering play therapy or you're actively in
(07:51):
play therapy and or if you have a highly anxious child,
this is really important.
What happens is when we have highly anxious people in our lives,
specifically children.
The entire family structure starts to bend
to the anxiety.
We learn to concede,
we learn to give in,
we learn to not fight certain battles,
(08:12):
we learn to walk on eggshells,
we learn to tiptoe.
And all we want is for the big feelings and the high
levels of anxiety to go away cause it makes everything easier.
So what we end up doing is,
OK,
OK,
OK,
that's fine.
Because forcing her to go
would cause upheaval,
forcing her to go would cause a meltdown.
(08:32):
Forcing her to go would cause an hour-long fight.
So we learn
to acquiesce and just say,
OK,
OK,
OK,
that's fine.
And
with good intentions and
for preservation of sanity,
I completely understand.
But here's what happens when we do that.
When you have a highly anxious kid,
a big feeling kid,
(08:52):
avoiding doing something that's scary.
By saying,
OK,
you don't have to do that.
We are reinforcing the anxiety.
We are reinforcing the power grab.
And we are communicating to children
that they don't have to face the things that are overwhelming to them.
They develop learned helplessness.
(09:13):
They developed no sense of their own problem
solving and their own capacity to address things.
And
we actually become complicit
in the idea of
fight or flight.
So,
Sabrina,
the most helpful thing that you can do.
(09:33):
Is to get her back in therapy.
Because
allowing her to avoid it,
allowing her to resist it,
and just,
she doesn't have to go anymore.
You can see how that reinforces when something feels too big,
too scary,
too overwhelming,
just run the other way.
And that's not coping,
it's not resilience,
it's not problem solving,
(09:54):
it's not trusting herself.
It,
it's so many things that we need as adults we to be functional adults,
we need to know that we can face difficult things.
We need to know that we have the capacity to handle
situations.
We need to know that we can problem solve.
We need to know that we can trust ourselves.
We need to believe in our coping skills.
There are so many lifelong lessons that are
(10:16):
learned when kids have to face their stuff.
And so,
Sabrina,
I really appreciate the question.
I think this is helpful for so many people
and
we really just have to
reflect feelings.
And set neutral limits.
So here's what that would look like.
You really don't want to go to therapy,
(10:36):
but we have
weekly appointments on Tuesdays at 4.
You can choose what you do when we're there,
but we're going to the appointment.
So when you get there,
if she chooses not to go back to the playroom,
if she chooses to sit in the lobby,
if she chooses not to speak,
if she chooses to cry,
if she chooses to throw herself on the floor and kick and scream,
(10:57):
whatever it is,
she is ultimately in control of what happens at play therapy,
but
going
is a necessity.
In other words,
that's not part of the choice.
It's not you can choose to go or you can choose not to go.
It's we're going.
But you can choose to play or not to play when we get there.
You can choose to talk or not to talk when we get there.
(11:20):
So it shifts to a neutral limit,
but she needs to feel heard and validated.
It's scary
to go and
and do stuff that is new.
It feels like it's a lot
to go and play with this person every week.
You're not sure if you like this.
You're upset about going.
You feel unsure.
(11:41):
Etc.
etc.
She needs to be validated,
but then neutral limit is we have appointments scheduled on Tuesdays at 4
and that becomes the non-negotiable.
So Sabrina,
I hope that's helpful to you and everyone else.
Thank you so much for the question.
If you all would like to reach out to me,
I'd love to hear from you,
brenna@thekidcounselor.com.
(12:02):
By the way,
I don't mention this often,
but I know there are new podcast listeners all the time.
So first of all,
welcome.
So glad that you're here.
Season 2
is about almost 40 episodes in,
so if you are a new listener and you've been listening to season 2,
we did a little bit of a primer refresher at the beginning of season 2,
and we've been answering a lot of questions,
(12:23):
but
season one has more than 100 episodes
of all things play therapy,
child-centered play therapy,
parenting approaches,
tips,
strategies,
tricks.
So if you would like to go back and listen to season one,
there's a wealth of information there.
You can just search for episodes and topics,
and then you're able to pinpoint specific
(12:44):
things that have been addressed and discussed.
So if you're struggling
and you're wondering if there's a podcast episode,
there likely is.
So just search what you're curious about and see if in season 1 or season 2,
there will be an episode for you.
All right,
I appreciate you all so much.
Thank you for hanging out with me each week.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to
the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
(13:08):
For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.