In this episode, I answer a question from a mom navigating intense bedtime struggles with her highly anxious daughter. When emotions escalate and her child feels panicked or overwhelmed, she questions whether enforcing boundaries might seem insensitive. I break down what’s really going on—how anxiety drives a need for control—and why bedtime often becomes the battleground.
Using child-centered strategies, I walk through how to respond in ways that honor both the child’s emotions and the parent's need for structure, sleep, and sanity. I explain how to set compassionate boundaries, return responsibility, and use empowering choices to build your child’s resilience and coping skills—without fueling the cycle of dependence.
Ask Me Questions: Call (813) 812-5525, or email: brenna@thekidcounselor.com
Podcast HQ: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/
My Newsletter Signup: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/newsletter/
My Podcast Partner, Gabb Wireless: https://www.playtherapyparenting.com/gabb/
Common References:
Landreth, G.L. (2023). Play Therapy: The Art of the Relationship (4th ed.). Routledge.
Bratton, S. C., Landreth, G. L., Kellam, T., & Blackard, S. R. (2006). Child parent relationship therapy (CPRT) treatment manual: A 10-session filial therapy model for training parents. Routledge/Taylor & Francis Group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
You're listening to the
Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you insight,
awareness,
and enlightenment about your parenting
and your relationship with your kids.
Today's episode,
I am answering a question from another Whitney.
(00:22):
That's not even a common name,
y'all,
and I've had two Whitney's email me in close proximity to each other.
So,
hello to you,
Whitney's out there.
One of my very good friends is Whitney,
but I only have one.
So
there's a very small group of you all and thank you to two of you for emailing me.
Brenna is another one,
you know,
I've only met maybe 10 or 11 brenna's in my whole life,
(00:44):
so it's always fun when you have a unique name and you meet someone else.
So Whitney meet Whitney,
and this is a different one than the one I answered a couple times ago.
This one is about bedtime struggles
and specifically
how to handle when the emotions get so high
and feeling like there's an insensitivity there.
(01:04):
So,
Whitney #2,
I really appreciate this email because this
is not just a question about how to handle it,
it's actually how to use these child-centered play therapy parenting approaches
with the wrestling of,
but is this actually helpful and and my feelings around it.
So
I think this is gonna be really helpful for all of us.
(01:25):
So let me read parts of the email and then we'll dive in.
Over the past 5 months,
my daughter has made enough progress to go to bed and allow me to go
downstairs or go to bed if I meet up with a friend in the evening.
She still gets worried,
but she's able to handle it herself.
However,
there are still nights where she gets overtired,
can't fall asleep,
and then begins to worry and comes to me to help her out.
(01:47):
She won't stay in her room,
but if I tell her that she's supposed to,
it exacerbates the issues because she feels locked in and then panics.
Without me,
she hyperventilates,
sobs,
and make makes big statements like I wish I weren't alive so I wouldn't feel this way.
Thank you for your podcast on those types of statements.
You're welcome,
Whitney.
I'm usually very consistent and clear.
I'm not one of those parents who gives in or gets embroiled in power struggles.
(02:10):
I'm well informed and reflective,
and I'm still struggling with this because of this one thing.
I'm worried that setting limits in a certain way in
this scenario is somehow punishing my daughter for her emotions.
She's at the point where she believes that she cannot calm down on her own.
I don't know how to help her get unstuck from there.
Once she's at an 8 or more on a 1 to 10 scale,
(02:31):
she seeks me out relentlessly.
She says she's scared and doesn't know why.
She sometimes says she's sad and overwhelmed.
I reflect her feelings.
I gently encourage.
I use choice language.
I remind her in the daytime when she's not flooded with
fear that she can't lean on me all the time.
And I still end up feeling like walking away from her
when she is so clearly out of control is insensitive.
(02:53):
And then I get frustrated in the moment because I'm not sure if
staying or going will further the larger goal of her confidence and independence,
not to mention the fact that I usually go to bed at 9 and her
problems seem to start then when I am at my most tired and least patient.
All right,
Whitney,
thank you so much.
So let's kind of make sense of this.
So first and foremost,
(03:15):
this is a very common
scenario,
so keep in mind kids have control over a handful of
things and they all fit on one of your hands,
not two.
So
sleeping is one of those
5 or less items.
And when we were just talking about toileting last episode,
right,
so toileting and sleeping are two of the majors.
(03:36):
In her case,
Yes,
this is a power grab.
Yes,
this is her fight for control,
but not in the truest sense.
This is something that I think is going to be really helpful for all of us.
When
kids or adults,
it doesn't matter,
when humans
have super high levels of anxiety,
(03:56):
unmanageable levels of anxiety.
Everything feels completely out of control
and you feel completely powerless.
So the unconscious says
take control over something,
grasp for power in some way.
So in your daughter's case,
Whitney,
this is more of a means to an end.
(04:17):
This is not truly a power and control thing.
This is,
I am so anxious.
I just want to feel like I have control.
So what can she control
insisting that you're in there with her.
And here's what I suspect happened.
I think this was an original
organic
true moment where you helped her feel better.
(04:39):
In other words,
she got so overwhelmed,
she was so disregulated,
her anxiety was so high,
you came in,
you were able to help her calm down.
So she associated you in that very original organic moment as mom makes this better.
That's the way that typically patterns begin.
It happened in a raw real way the first time,
(05:01):
first few times maybe.
So she associated,
mom makes this better.
Well,
now this has become a hat,
a habit,
and a pattern.
So now,
You said she believes that she cannot calm down on her own.
That's maladaptive and it's misinformed,
(05:21):
but she's been conditioned to think
that you are the security blanket,
you are the crutch,
you are the way that helps her feel better.
So she is capable of calming down on her own,
but she's never proven that to herself.
What has been proven is when you're there,
she feels better.
So you can see how this becomes a cycle and it started in a very real way.
(05:43):
I'm really scared,
Mom,
please stay.
You did,
she felt better.
Great.
Well now
it's,
I need you here because you are what makes me feel better.
So that's kind of the undercurrent of what's going on
and that's often the way patterns develop with children.
It happens naturally at first and then it becomes conditioned.
(06:03):
So when
she gets this overwhelmed
and you are returning responsibility to her and you're reminding
her that she needs to stay in her room,
etc.
she's grasping at power because that is the antidote to anxiety.
It's fascinating to think about this.
This is kind of a a sidebar related aside,
but important.
(06:25):
We cannot simultaneously feel fear and anger at the same time.
So one strategy,
I'm not saying you should teach this to your child,
because kids aren't rational.
I'm just letting you all know,
kind of as a public service announcement,
it's helpful to recognize that fear and anger cannot coexist.
And one of the things that often happens is
(06:48):
kids will get angry
about something because it takes away the fear.
So when kids are highly anxious,
they will all of a sudden get mad or they'll
yell or they'll seem really aggressive and you're like,
what in the world is going on?
It's actually their way of coping with the fear.
So just wanted to throw that in there as well.
(07:08):
But
as far as your daughter goes,
Whitney.
When she is trying to get rid of this anxiety,
she's gonna grasp at any measure of power and control that she can get
because that reduces anxiety.
I don't feel powerless,
I don't feel out of control
if I
can insist upon something.
She's insisting on you.
And there are times when her anxiety is probably less.
(07:32):
And those are the times when you said she can handle it,
but you already acknowledged it,
she gets over tired.
We go back to the podcast in season one ages ago.
What are natural causes of issues for children,
they're tired,
they're hungry,
they're bored.
So she gets overtired.
She has no bandwidth left.
(07:53):
She's not cognitive and rational anyway.
So emotions are going to be bigger,
anxiety is going to feel worse,
everything's going to ramp up and escalate,
and then she's at the mercy of all these big feelings.
She doesn't have abstract reasoning.
So of course,
if she's overtired,
everything gets worse.
And keep in mind too,
anxiety
(08:14):
is always the worst at night.
Across the board for every age.
During the day you have distractions.
During the day you can be busy doing other things,
thinking about other things,
ignoring it,
avoiding it,
whatever.
You lay down at night,
it's dark,
it's quiet,
and all you have are your thoughts.
So almost always anxiety rears its head
(08:36):
in the biggest ways
at night.
That's a standard.
So we,
we kind of have perfect storm,
right,
Whitney,
of all of these things.
And so when you said I'm worried that setting limits in this
way in this scenario is punishing her for her own emotions.
I understand why you feel that way,
but
that's absolutely not going to happen if this is executed
(08:58):
with
Accurate wording
The whole premise of limit setting
is you give your daughter alternatives
to get her original needs met.
So,
if her need is,
I want you in here.
But that's not part of the choice because A,
it's your bedtime too,
B,
(09:19):
you can't be her crutch forever.
C,
she goes to bed by herself,
you go to bed by yourself,
and that's the expectation in the home.
Therefore,
how do we provide alternatives
that allow her to get her need met
while still complying with the limit?
So you're going to say something like you'd really like me to stay in your room
(09:42):
or you'd really like me to be with you,
or you feel like you need me to help you calm down,
OK,
whatever it is,
those needs are going to change depending on the moment.
Whatever the need is,
but the limit is.
But I'm not for being in your room when it's bedtime.
Or
(10:02):
Your bedroom is for you to be in when it's time to go to sleep,
not me,
whatever,
however you want to phrase that.
So that is the A and the C,
acknowledge the need,
feeling,
desire,
wish,
and then communicate the limit.
OK.
So we've tackled the first two steps.
The third step is crucial here,
Whitney,
because
this is how she doesn't feel punished.
(10:25):
You give her alternatives that you're OK with,
that she's OK with,
and that meet the need.
So,
she really wants you to help her calm down.
So maybe the limit becomes you can choose for me to stay in here for
2 minutes or you can choose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes,
which do you choose?
She wants you to stay in the room until she falls asleep,
(10:46):
maybe.
You can choose for me to stay in here for 2 minutes or
you can choose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes.
She wants you to
make her feel better.
You can choose for me to talk to you,
or you can choose for me to sing to you.
Which do you choose?
Whatever the need,
desire,
intent,
or feeling is,
the alternatives
(11:07):
meet the need.
While making sure that the boundaries are in place.
You're not going to stay in there
for the rest of the night.
You're not going to stay in there when it's your bedtime.
You're not going to be responsible for
herself calming down.
So you're going to have to set
small choices in here.
Why?
Let's think about this.
(11:28):
Let's go back.
High levels of anxiety
creates need for power and control.
When you provide alternatives in a limit,
you're giving children measures of control.
She has a choice,
she has power.
So that's not insensitive at all.
It's actually empowering her.
It's helping her solve her own problem.
(11:49):
And she naturally has buy-in when she says I choose
for you to stay in here for 5 minutes.
She has solved her own problem,
so you stay for 5 minutes and then you say you chose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes.
The 5 minutes are up.
I love you,
and you walk out of the room.
And if she goes,
Hold on,
no,
you can't leave yet.
You'd really like me to stay,
(12:11):
but you chose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes and the 5 minutes are up.
No,
no,
no,
no,
no,
you'd really like me to stay,
but you chose 5 minutes.
And I'll,
you can choose that again tomorrow.
So the goal is small incremental shifts.
Now,
if she's so disregulated
(12:32):
that even after the 5 minutes,
it just ramps up again,
you might end up giving new alternatives.
So you will not stay in the room anymore because
she's already chosen that in 5 minutes you leave.
So then maybe the choices become,
you can choose for me to sit outside your door,
or you can choose for me to stay in the hallway
(12:53):
for 5 minutes,
which do you choose?
And no notice you're no longer in the room
because she already chose for 5 minutes and 5 minutes are up.
So you're choosing for me to stay in the hallway and then here's what I would add in.
But after this next 5 minutes,
if you choose for me to be outside your door or if you choose for me to be in the hallway,
(13:14):
when those 5 minutes are up,
I'm going to my bedroom.
So you can choose where you'd like me to stay for the next 5 minutes,
but in 5 minutes
I am going to my room.
Set very clear expectations.
It's not insensitive.
It's boundaries.
It's for your sanity's sake.
You already said I'm at my most tired and my least patient.
(13:37):
One of the things that we always ask ourselves what in this
moment will most preserve the relationship or do the least harm?
You don't want to be intolerant,
you don't want to be impatient,
you don't want to be frustrated,
you don't want to be angry and feel bitter that she's keeping you from going to bed.
So you have to have parameters and be really clear on expectations.
(14:00):
It's not insensitive at all
to make it known what's going to happen,
and then that happens.
She will get through this,
just like I mentioned in a podcast a couple times ago,
this too shall pass.
This is not a forever issue.
She has super high levels of anxiety right now and she's been conditioned
that it gets worse at night and she thinks she needs you.
(14:20):
She will learn that she doesn't reduction of anxiety,
increase in coping skills,
she will naturally sort this out.
I don't know if you've pursued it already,
but
finding a child-centered play therapist would really help in this scenario
because your daughter could work on this in the playroom
as well as at home.
(14:41):
The goal is that you remain adherent to the model
so that she knows what to expect.
And you said you're very consistent,
so I think you already have that pattern established,
Whitney.
We want to always be really clear,
clear is kind,
truthful is kind.
This
is what's going to happen.
And you may even want to set that expectation
(15:01):
earlier in the day.
You said you already do it when.
You know,
it's,
it's calm and it's not in the moment.
Do the same thing.
I want to let you know that tonight
the bedtime routine
is going to be 15 minutes or less.
Because it's my bedtime too,
and I'm tired.
So,
(15:22):
regardless of what happens,
15 minutes is the bedtime routine tonight.
And then you move on with your day.
You've set an expectation.
She will learn
that
there are boundaries,
and here's
the alternative.
And this is what actually often happens
when a child becomes really overwhelmed and anxious,
(15:45):
and it becomes a pattern of behavior.
Everyone in the family starts to concede
and tiptoe and walk around on eggshells and everything
becomes about making sure that it doesn't escalate.
Everything becomes about making sure that it doesn't blow up.
Everyone is always like,
well,
we don't want this to happen,
we don't want this to happen,
so
the whole family changes.
(16:08):
Because of a highly anxious child.
The goal is
the child learns to change.
The child learns to regulate,
the child learns to control emotions.
Reduction and anxiety will only come
from being forced to learn to cope.
If all we do is create an environment where someone can avoid their fear.
(16:30):
The fears get bigger and bigger and bigger.
If we create an environment where a
child knows there are expectations and boundaries,
and they have to confront some of those fears
and conquer them,
fears get better.
It's not insensitive at all
to provide alternatives that you're OK with and that she's OK with
and still operate within boundaries.
(16:52):
So I hope that's encouraging for you all.
I know many of you have sleeping issues.
I know many of you have highly anxious kids.
So Whitney,
thank you so much for the email.
I feel like that was really helpful.
If you want to reach out,
please do brenna@thekidcounselor.com
and
otherwise,
have a great week.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to
the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
(17:15):
For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.
You're listening to the
Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
Hi,
I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,
The Kid Counselor.
This is the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast where I give you insight,
awareness,
and enlightenment about your parenting
and your relationship with your kids.
Today's episode,
I am answering a question from another Whitney.
(00:22):
That's not even a common name,
y'all,
and I've had two Whitney's email me in close proximity to each other.
So,
hello to you,
Whitney's out there.
One of my very good friends is Whitney,
but I only have one.
So
there's a very small group of you all and thank you to two of you for emailing me.
Brenna is another one,
you know,
I've only met maybe 10 or 11 brenna's in my whole life,
(00:44):
so it's always fun when you have a unique name and you meet someone else.
So Whitney meet Whitney,
and this is a different one than the one I answered a couple times ago.
This one is about bedtime struggles
and specifically
how to handle when the emotions get so high
and feeling like there's an insensitivity there.
(01:04):
So,
Whitney #2,
I really appreciate this email because this
is not just a question about how to handle it,
it's actually how to use these child-centered play therapy parenting approaches
with the wrestling of,
but is this actually helpful and and my feelings around it.
So
I think this is gonna be really helpful for all of us.
(01:25):
So let me read parts of the email and then we'll dive in.
Over the past 5 months,
my daughter has made enough progress to go to bed and allow me to go
downstairs or go to bed if I meet up with a friend in the evening.
She still gets worried,
but she's able to handle it herself.
However,
there are still nights where she gets overtired,
can't fall asleep,
and then begins to worry and comes to me to help her out.
(01:47):
She won't stay in her room,
but if I tell her that she's supposed to,
it exacerbates the issues because she feels locked in and then panics.
Without me,
she hyperventilates,
sobs,
and make makes big statements like I wish I weren't alive so I wouldn't feel this way.
Thank you for your podcast on those types of statements.
You're welcome,
Whitney.
I'm usually very consistent and clear.
I'm not one of those parents who gives in or gets embroiled in power struggles.
(02:10):
I'm well informed and reflective,
and I'm still struggling with this because of this one thing.
I'm worried that setting limits in a certain way in
this scenario is somehow punishing my daughter for her emotions.
She's at the point where she believes that she cannot calm down on her own.
I don't know how to help her get unstuck from there.
Once she's at an 8 or more on a 1 to 10 scale,
(02:31):
she seeks me out relentlessly.
She says she's scared and doesn't know why.
She sometimes says she's sad and overwhelmed.
I reflect her feelings.
I gently encourage.
I use choice language.
I remind her in the daytime when she's not flooded with
fear that she can't lean on me all the time.
And I still end up feeling like walking away from her
when she is so clearly out of control is insensitive.
(02:53):
And then I get frustrated in the moment because I'm not sure if
staying or going will further the larger goal of her confidence and independence,
not to mention the fact that I usually go to bed at 9 and her
problems seem to start then when I am at my most tired and least patient.
All right,
Whitney,
thank you so much.
So let's kind of make sense of this.
So first and foremost,
(03:15):
this is a very common
scenario,
so keep in mind kids have control over a handful of
things and they all fit on one of your hands,
not two.
So
sleeping is one of those
5 or less items.
And when we were just talking about toileting last episode,
right,
so toileting and sleeping are two of the majors.
(03:36):
In her case,
Yes,
this is a power grab.
Yes,
this is her fight for control,
but not in the truest sense.
This is something that I think is going to be really helpful for all of us.
When
kids or adults,
it doesn't matter,
when humans
have super high levels of anxiety,
(03:56):
unmanageable levels of anxiety.
Everything feels completely out of control
and you feel completely powerless.
So the unconscious says
take control over something,
grasp for power in some way.
So in your daughter's case,
Whitney,
this is more of a means to an end.
(04:17):
This is not truly a power and control thing.
This is,
I am so anxious.
I just want to feel like I have control.
So what can she control
insisting that you're in there with her.
And here's what I suspect happened.
I think this was an original
organic
true moment where you helped her feel better.
(04:39):
In other words,
she got so overwhelmed,
she was so disregulated,
her anxiety was so high,
you came in,
you were able to help her calm down.
So she associated you in that very original organic moment as mom makes this better.
That's the way that typically patterns begin.
It happened in a raw real way the first time,
(05:01):
first few times maybe.
So she associated,
mom makes this better.
Well,
now this has become a hat,
a habit,
and a pattern.
So now,
You said she believes that she cannot calm down on her own.
That's maladaptive and it's misinformed,
(05:21):
but she's been conditioned to think
that you are the security blanket,
you are the crutch,
you are the way that helps her feel better.
So she is capable of calming down on her own,
but she's never proven that to herself.
What has been proven is when you're there,
she feels better.
So you can see how this becomes a cycle and it started in a very real way.
(05:43):
I'm really scared,
Mom,
please stay.
You did,
she felt better.
Great.
Well now
it's,
I need you here because you are what makes me feel better.
So that's kind of the undercurrent of what's going on
and that's often the way patterns develop with children.
It happens naturally at first and then it becomes conditioned.
(06:03):
So when
she gets this overwhelmed
and you are returning responsibility to her and you're reminding
her that she needs to stay in her room,
etc.
she's grasping at power because that is the antidote to anxiety.
It's fascinating to think about this.
This is kind of a a sidebar related aside,
but important.
(06:25):
We cannot simultaneously feel fear and anger at the same time.
So one strategy,
I'm not saying you should teach this to your child,
because kids aren't rational.
I'm just letting you all know,
kind of as a public service announcement,
it's helpful to recognize that fear and anger cannot coexist.
And one of the things that often happens is
(06:48):
kids will get angry
about something because it takes away the fear.
So when kids are highly anxious,
they will all of a sudden get mad or they'll
yell or they'll seem really aggressive and you're like,
what in the world is going on?
It's actually their way of coping with the fear.
So just wanted to throw that in there as well.
(07:08):
But
as far as your daughter goes,
Whitney.
When she is trying to get rid of this anxiety,
she's gonna grasp at any measure of power and control that she can get
because that reduces anxiety.
I don't feel powerless,
I don't feel out of control
if I
can insist upon something.
She's insisting on you.
And there are times when her anxiety is probably less.
(07:32):
And those are the times when you said she can handle it,
but you already acknowledged it,
she gets over tired.
We go back to the podcast in season one ages ago.
What are natural causes of issues for children,
they're tired,
they're hungry,
they're bored.
So she gets overtired.
She has no bandwidth left.
(07:53):
She's not cognitive and rational anyway.
So emotions are going to be bigger,
anxiety is going to feel worse,
everything's going to ramp up and escalate,
and then she's at the mercy of all these big feelings.
She doesn't have abstract reasoning.
So of course,
if she's overtired,
everything gets worse.
And keep in mind too,
anxiety
(08:14):
is always the worst at night.
Across the board for every age.
During the day you have distractions.
During the day you can be busy doing other things,
thinking about other things,
ignoring it,
avoiding it,
whatever.
You lay down at night,
it's dark,
it's quiet,
and all you have are your thoughts.
So almost always anxiety rears its head
(08:36):
in the biggest ways
at night.
That's a standard.
So we,
we kind of have perfect storm,
right,
Whitney,
of all of these things.
And so when you said I'm worried that setting limits in this
way in this scenario is punishing her for her own emotions.
I understand why you feel that way,
but
that's absolutely not going to happen if this is executed
(08:58):
with
Accurate wording
The whole premise of limit setting
is you give your daughter alternatives
to get her original needs met.
So,
if her need is,
I want you in here.
But that's not part of the choice because A,
it's your bedtime too,
B,
(09:19):
you can't be her crutch forever.
C,
she goes to bed by herself,
you go to bed by yourself,
and that's the expectation in the home.
Therefore,
how do we provide alternatives
that allow her to get her need met
while still complying with the limit?
So you're going to say something like you'd really like me to stay in your room
(09:42):
or you'd really like me to be with you,
or you feel like you need me to help you calm down,
OK,
whatever it is,
those needs are going to change depending on the moment.
Whatever the need is,
but the limit is.
But I'm not for being in your room when it's bedtime.
Or
(10:02):
Your bedroom is for you to be in when it's time to go to sleep,
not me,
whatever,
however you want to phrase that.
So that is the A and the C,
acknowledge the need,
feeling,
desire,
wish,
and then communicate the limit.
OK.
So we've tackled the first two steps.
The third step is crucial here,
Whitney,
because
this is how she doesn't feel punished.
(10:25):
You give her alternatives that you're OK with,
that she's OK with,
and that meet the need.
So,
she really wants you to help her calm down.
So maybe the limit becomes you can choose for me to stay in here for
2 minutes or you can choose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes,
which do you choose?
She wants you to stay in the room until she falls asleep,
(10:46):
maybe.
You can choose for me to stay in here for 2 minutes or
you can choose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes.
She wants you to
make her feel better.
You can choose for me to talk to you,
or you can choose for me to sing to you.
Which do you choose?
Whatever the need,
desire,
intent,
or feeling is,
the alternatives
(11:07):
meet the need.
While making sure that the boundaries are in place.
You're not going to stay in there
for the rest of the night.
You're not going to stay in there when it's your bedtime.
You're not going to be responsible for
herself calming down.
So you're going to have to set
small choices in here.
Why?
Let's think about this.
(11:28):
Let's go back.
High levels of anxiety
creates need for power and control.
When you provide alternatives in a limit,
you're giving children measures of control.
She has a choice,
she has power.
So that's not insensitive at all.
It's actually empowering her.
It's helping her solve her own problem.
(11:49):
And she naturally has buy-in when she says I choose
for you to stay in here for 5 minutes.
She has solved her own problem,
so you stay for 5 minutes and then you say you chose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes.
The 5 minutes are up.
I love you,
and you walk out of the room.
And if she goes,
Hold on,
no,
you can't leave yet.
You'd really like me to stay,
(12:11):
but you chose for me to stay in here for 5 minutes and the 5 minutes are up.
No,
no,
no,
no,
no,
you'd really like me to stay,
but you chose 5 minutes.
And I'll,
you can choose that again tomorrow.
So the goal is small incremental shifts.
Now,
if she's so disregulated
(12:32):
that even after the 5 minutes,
it just ramps up again,
you might end up giving new alternatives.
So you will not stay in the room anymore because
she's already chosen that in 5 minutes you leave.
So then maybe the choices become,
you can choose for me to sit outside your door,
or you can choose for me to stay in the hallway
(12:53):
for 5 minutes,
which do you choose?
And no notice you're no longer in the room
because she already chose for 5 minutes and 5 minutes are up.
So you're choosing for me to stay in the hallway and then here's what I would add in.
But after this next 5 minutes,
if you choose for me to be outside your door or if you choose for me to be in the hallway,
(13:14):
when those 5 minutes are up,
I'm going to my bedroom.
So you can choose where you'd like me to stay for the next 5 minutes,
but in 5 minutes
I am going to my room.
Set very clear expectations.
It's not insensitive.
It's boundaries.
It's for your sanity's sake.
You already said I'm at my most tired and my least patient.
(13:37):
One of the things that we always ask ourselves what in this
moment will most preserve the relationship or do the least harm?
You don't want to be intolerant,
you don't want to be impatient,
you don't want to be frustrated,
you don't want to be angry and feel bitter that she's keeping you from going to bed.
So you have to have parameters and be really clear on expectations.
(14:00):
It's not insensitive at all
to make it known what's going to happen,
and then that happens.
She will get through this,
just like I mentioned in a podcast a couple times ago,
this too shall pass.
This is not a forever issue.
She has super high levels of anxiety right now and she's been conditioned
that it gets worse at night and she thinks she needs you.
(14:20):
She will learn that she doesn't reduction of anxiety,
increase in coping skills,
she will naturally sort this out.
I don't know if you've pursued it already,
but
finding a child-centered play therapist would really help in this scenario
because your daughter could work on this in the playroom
as well as at home.
(14:41):
The goal is that you remain adherent to the model
so that she knows what to expect.
And you said you're very consistent,
so I think you already have that pattern established,
Whitney.
We want to always be really clear,
clear is kind,
truthful is kind.
This
is what's going to happen.
And you may even want to set that expectation
(15:01):
earlier in the day.
You said you already do it when.
You know,
it's,
it's calm and it's not in the moment.
Do the same thing.
I want to let you know that tonight
the bedtime routine
is going to be 15 minutes or less.
Because it's my bedtime too,
and I'm tired.
So,
(15:22):
regardless of what happens,
15 minutes is the bedtime routine tonight.
And then you move on with your day.
You've set an expectation.
She will learn
that
there are boundaries,
and here's
the alternative.
And this is what actually often happens
when a child becomes really overwhelmed and anxious,
(15:45):
and it becomes a pattern of behavior.
Everyone in the family starts to concede
and tiptoe and walk around on eggshells and everything
becomes about making sure that it doesn't escalate.
Everything becomes about making sure that it doesn't blow up.
Everyone is always like,
well,
we don't want this to happen,
we don't want this to happen,
so
the whole family changes.
(16:08):
Because of a highly anxious child.
The goal is
the child learns to change.
The child learns to regulate,
the child learns to control emotions.
Reduction and anxiety will only come
from being forced to learn to cope.
If all we do is create an environment where someone can avoid their fear.
(16:30):
The fears get bigger and bigger and bigger.
If we create an environment where a
child knows there are expectations and boundaries,
and they have to confront some of those fears
and conquer them,
fears get better.
It's not insensitive at all
to provide alternatives that you're OK with and that she's OK with
and still operate within boundaries.
(16:52):
So I hope that's encouraging for you all.
I know many of you have sleeping issues.
I know many of you have highly anxious kids.
So Whitney,
thank you so much for the email.
I feel like that was really helpful.
If you want to reach out,
please do brenna@thekidcounselor.com
and
otherwise,
have a great week.
We'll talk again soon.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to
the Play Therapy Parenting Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.
(17:15):
For more episodes and just subscribe to our newsletter,
please go to www.playtherapyparenting.com.
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