What if the rise of Apple also built modern China?
a16z’s Erik Torenberg is joined by board partner and former Microsoft Windows chief Steven Sinofsky to unpack how Apple’s pursuit of design excellence and supply chain scale catalyzed China’s manufacturing superpower status - and why that partnership is now under intense scrutiny.
Inspired by the book Apple in China (but not a book review), the episode dives deep into:
- The early days of Apple’s shift to Chinese manufacturing
- What experts got wrong in 1999 about trade, globalization, and China’s trajectory
- How Tim Cook’s operational playbook reshaped the global tech industry
- Behind-the-scenes stories from Microsoft’s own hardware battles and Surface launch
- Why Apple’s entanglement with China may now be a strategic liability
- What COVID revealed about fragile global dependencies — and where innovation goes next
- How national policy, intellectual property, and AI intersect in the new industrial era
The episode opens with a few reactions to WWDC: Apple’s new UI, the iPad’s evolving role, and why Apple’s AI story still feels unfinished - before zooming out into one of the most consequential tech and geopolitical stories of our time.
TImecodes:
00:00 Introduction
00:37 Guest Introduction: Steven Sinofsky
00:49 WWDC Reactions and Apple's AI Story
02:27 WWDC Highlights: Liquid Glass and iPad Updates
05:16 Apple's AI Strategy and Market Dynamics
06:34 Meta's AI Moves and Market Implications
13:30 Apple's Manufacturing Evolution: From Garage to Global
20:50 The Rise of ODMs and Global Manufacturing
26:32 Microsoft's Struggle with Piracy in China
27:19 Apple's Revolutionary MacBook Air
29:30 Challenges in PC Manufacturing
31:05 The Rise of Chinese Manufacturing Skills
32:07 The Point of No Return for Apple and China
32:59 Global Trade and Intellectual Property Issues
37:04 COVID-19's Impact on Global Manufacturing
41:19 Future of Innovation and Manufacturing
47:10 Navigating Intellectual Property in the AI Era
48:55 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Resources:
Find Steven on X: https://x.com/stevesi
Find Erik on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg
Stay Updated:
Let us know what you think: https://ratethispodcast.com/a16z
Find a16z on Twitter: https://twitter.com/a16z
Find a16z on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z
Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://a16z.simplecast.com/
Follow our host: https://x.com/eriktorenberg
Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. a16z and its affiliates may maintain investments in the companies discussed. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.