Linsey M. - I Let My Degree Dissolve Under My Tounge - Podcast Recovery

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome back to Podcast Recovery, everyone.
We're your host, David O. And Eric B.
And today, we're joined by our longtime friend Lindsay.
How are you doing today? Good.
How are you doing doing? Very good.
How about you, Eric? I'm doing good, you know, can't
complain the. Man behind the curb.
Yeah, The wizard. Where are you from, Lindsay?
Oh God, I'm from kind of all over, but really, I guess

(00:25):
Catonsville. Yeah, yeah.
Old stomping grounds at Glen Burnie.
A little bit, but yeah. Yeah, a little cringe on that
one. I know.
Yeah, I kind of. Say Glen Burnie.
I'm sorry. Glen Burnie.
Yeah. It's better in Pasadena kind.
Of right, right, right. All right.
When were you first introduced to recovery?

(00:48):
Oh boy, when was I? I came in and out for a really
long time. I think I was first introduced,
man, coming out with some questions right off the bat, I
guess. I was first introduced when I
turned 21. I got a DWI on my 21st birthday.

(01:09):
Yeah, You know, I planned to like, oh, it's my 21st birthday.
I was I'm getting wrecked and you know, I ended up crashing my
car into a the big thing in the between the highway that like
separate there we go big concrete wall thing and I'm
pretty sure I fell asleep and they said then it was so much

(01:32):
easier. You know, the walls were so much
easier. So they said you can either lose
your license completely for 15 days or only drive back and
forth to work for 30 and you have six months of unsupervised
probation. We suggest you go to this place
called Narcotics Anonymous, go to meetings, whatever.

(01:54):
So that was and I never, I didn't go.
And then they said like, you know, unsupervised.
So that didn't really, I didn't have to show up and.
But before we get too far, yeah.Before we get too far, how much
clean time do you have? Nine years.
I just celebrated in September. September 2nd.
Hell yeah. Yeah.

(02:14):
Thank you. Congratulations on that and now
take it away. OK, right.
The floor is. Yours I I'm a talker, so you're
gonna have to cut me off. That's fine.
So God floors my so I just tell my story.
Tell your story and we will interject and we will have fun
the whole way. Yeah, I really like that.
It's like. Yeah, I'm not just going to

(02:35):
clinically sit here and stare atyou and write Quest.
Right. That's what I do.
And I'm like, you think, Tom, how does that make you feel?
Right. OK.
Right. And where do you think that came
from? Yeah, Dad.
Yeah, it's true every time. Fucking.
True. Bastard.
So so. You were born at a young age.
I was born at a young age to my mom.

(03:00):
Yeah. I mean, I remember honestly,
like, my mom and I have had thisconversation, you know, many
times. I never really felt comfortable
in my own skin. So you're 82?
I'm 19820. I was going to say damn dude, do
I look that old? Like I'm not like.
No, should be doing CrossFit. Maybe you don't.
Yeah. Oh Lord, I should never, No.

(03:22):
RJ, stop pressuring her. Yes.
Thank you. Peer pressure, you bastard.
Yeah, God, let me get there in my own time.
It's my process. That's the process.
So I was born in 81. OK, 81.
Yeah, so I might feel 82, but I'm not.
So do you identify as a millennial or?

(03:43):
A or. Gen.
X or. I don't really know, like what
the I I think I guess I'm on themillennial, but yeah.
Elder Millennial. You're on the cusp a bit.
Ohh she's just she what she justcusper everything now just.
Cusper. That's just yeah, go ahead,
label me with that. That's fine.
I yeah, I mean, all I know is that like, there was the Y2K

(04:07):
thing and the every the world was gonna end and the planes
were gonna fall. Outside the world has ended so
many times for our generations, yeah.
It's ridiculous. I don't really know what the all
and I know now that like I guessthe the kids just they don't
wanna work. Like nobody wants to work.
They wanna get paid a lot, but they don't wanna actually like
do anything, do shit. So I guess that's the
difference. I don't mind working.

(04:27):
I actually no. Yeah.
Works not bad. I need, I need me.
I need money so. Yes.
OK, so yeah, I think from a really young age, I did not feel
comfortable in my skin. I know like some people are
like, oh, remember before that, like life came along and kicked
your ass when things were easy and great and you felt like a,

(04:49):
you know, care for me. And no, I don't remember that.
Yeah, that was maybe like till Iwas like 5.
Yeah. And I don't remember most before
that. Right, right, right.
And yeah, I don't. I don't ever remember just
feeling like, OK, I always wanted to be somebody else.
I'm an only child. My you're reading my mind.
I was. Just about to ask that.

(05:12):
Yeah. And my mom, she says that she
got pregnant with me the first time she ever did that.
And, you know, it's like, OK, mom, but she was young and, you
know, they tried to, I guess it.Feels true.
What if it? Was she like swears by it?
I mean, they could. And then I'm like, see, and this

(05:33):
is what you got so. So I'd punished you.
Like. You.
Probably. Wish you never did that.
So yeah, I think that, you know,they tried to do what they
could. Like they ended up getting
married when she found out she was pregnant and they were just
too young. They shouldn't have.

(05:55):
And I think they would not have been, they wouldn't have gotten
married if it wasn't for that. But anyway, so, you know, it was
really like me and my mom, I remember like she worked a lot.
So I was alone a lot. I was in daycare for a little
while. In the beginning, it was like
going back and forth between mom's house, dad's on the

(06:17):
weekends and like, but I really,I didn't like it.
I did not feel comfortable at mydad's.
He did not want to be bothered. He was like, just go in your
room. There was a lot of like, you
know, just leave me alone. I want to do my thing.
He was young. He was like drinking and dating.

(06:37):
And I just kind of got in the way.
And I remember like, really feeling that on a deep level.
Like, so now it's like, Oh my God, being on someone's nerves
is like the worst thing ever. And if I'm not wanted somewhere,
like I'm out. So, you know, I learned at a
really, really young age how to like, keep myself busy.

(07:00):
I would so I've heard other people say this like fantasy was
definitely my friend because sometimes I would find myself
like in the closet just like, you know, off in a fairy tale
and I was, you know, this Princess or that Princess or
whatever. You watched a lot of Strawberry

(07:20):
Shortcake when you were a kid. I watched.
It was more like Care Bears, Jim.
Truly outrageous. Jim.
Yes, nobody knows. Jim, dude, Gem in the holograms.
Hell yeah. With the little ear.
Four sisters. I.
Got. My eldest sister was 78, my
other sister was 82. Yeah.
I think that you'd be like yearsold.

(07:42):
No, yeah, People are like, why are you fucking like how you
know? That was that was just a RIP off
of the Dazzler man dude. If you're talking shit.
About. Gem in the holograms.
Right now. He put I.
Did you hear what I just said? I said the dazzler.
I said it's a RIP off of the dazzler.
Come at me. Come at me.
Do you even know you even know you?
Can't see him right now, but. Say 1 bad word about the

(08:04):
Thundercats right now I. Swear to God.
Dude. Your cats don't got shit on the.
Chitara man on. Dude, Chitara.
Thank you dude. He man, he man would.
Just white man would like no we just wipe up the shit.
No, they wipe up the masters. Really.
We're gonna go masters in universes?
Where Tiger and man? Ram Man would just come in there

(08:26):
and. Be like ram ram panthro bro.
Ram Man was a real Ram Man was areal character.
Let's. Let's re look back.
Let's re look back. Let's send.
Ourselves, beast man. Let's enter ourselves.
Go back to the. 80s that was charged back to the 80s right
back. To these stories, Jen and the
holograms. Go ram man.
He had to have the last word. You're good.

(08:48):
It's OK. Except we're fun.
We're fun. So.
So. Yeah.
Care Bears. My Little Pony Care.
Bears stare you. Young kids.
Oh my gosh. We're going to heal the words
with our belly buttons. We'll heal the world.
That's how it was going to happen.
From it was great. So yeah, like I watched a lot of

(09:12):
that and mom was not really around because she was working.
Dad was not didn't want to have anything to do with me is what
it felt like. So I did like a lot of stuff by
myself. I would like go to the
playground. I was not supervised a lot.
I loved to climb trees and I waskind of like a tomboy.
So I just kind of like got into stuff and pretended.

(09:35):
To watch Kiki. So I did that for a while and I
remember like not really having a whole lot of friends.
I didn't have, you know, I was an only child.
So I was by myself a lot. So I just like was comfortable,
kind of like doing my own thing.I still am not like, I don't

(09:56):
like people a whole lot. I mean, I do like people, but
they scare me. Like honestly, I'm still kind of
afraid of people. So I got to be, I guess like in
first grade, 2nd grade, you know, like elementary school.
And I remember that like my dad found a girl who he wanted to

(10:21):
like, who basically wanted to take him to Florida.
So he said sure. And like he left and like
started over again with this newwoman in Florida.
And I remember, you know, like you're a narcissist at as a
child, everything is about you. And I remember just being like,
well, what is wrong with me? And like, why can't he stay for

(10:41):
me? And like so clearly it was like
I did this because I'm not something enough that and man, I
ran. I was.
Making a daddy joke earlier. And it's totally true.
But, you know, I ran with that. So did I.
Yeah. And like, you know, we, we have
to joke about it. You know what I mean?

(11:01):
There's no other way. Yeah, 'cause like it's.
Still puddle of tears. I was gonna say I still can.
Like, you know, I've I've done freaking step work and I
literally like. Especially now that I'm a dad
and I can like how much I love my little thing I.
Cannot imagine not a. Piece of shit could leave this.
Right. Like I could never.

(11:22):
So then, you know, yes, that everything does change when you
have a child. Like, it puts so many things in
perspective. But yeah, I remember, like, my
mom sort of at that point then like, she met a pastor.
She's like, very, very convictedin her faith.
I wish that I had that. Catholic.

(11:45):
Protestant. She's Lutheran.
Okay problem so okay yeah yeah yeah she she and to her like if
you're not Lutheran then like you're not doing it right yeah
it's like gotta be like this you.
Have the wrong flavor. You have the wrong.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you're giving your money to
the wrong. So yeah.
But she that, like, she found that because she had a rough

(12:06):
life, you know, she found that at a young age, and it really
helped her. So, you know, good for her that
like, that's where she turns forher strength.
And it's gotten her through a lot.
And she did that the whole time I was an active addiction.
So like, I have to give her a lot of respect for that.
But yeah. So she met this pastor.

(12:27):
He was actually the pastor that married my mom and my dad.
It's a little weird. Wow.
Yeah, can't make it up. And they started like, dating.
So it was like, you know, my dadleaves.
My mom's with this dude. So I'm like, everybody's leaving
Pastor dad. Yeah.

(12:49):
And so I'm like, and I didn't. And he was much older.
I think he was. He's like 14 years older than my
mom. So there was.
And I'm like, who are you? Like I already have a dad, you
know, So it was very like, you're taking my mom.
Yeah. He will be here any second.
It's only 24 hours. Away or whatever.

(13:12):
So basically, like it got to be very like lonely.
I remember just being very lonely and being very like,
something's wrong with me. So at a really young age, I
started self harm. That's kind of been like a thing
that has been there. That was the first, well, second
after fantasy. But, I mean, you know, through

(13:33):
step work, I've been able to identify, like, a lot of the
ways that I tried to get outsidemyself before drugs even came
along. Yeah.
And that was a big one. And it's so much like using
like, yeah, it's a rush. It's something I have control
over. It actually feels better.
Yeah, than everything else, yeah.
Mine was movies and like dude I literally when I saw hook and I

(13:56):
was like I am one of the lost. Boys.
Yeah, I was one of the lost boys100%.
And like my parents, I had plastic sword.
I would slide across the linoleum on my knee.
It's such a. Good movie.
Yeah. So good.
I know. Yeah.
So. So that was like my thing.
And oh, God, there was just always something wrong with me.

(14:17):
Like I really do look back and think like I was just never like
good coasting. You know, There was, you know, I
started having eating disorder issues.
Like I started noticing that like, obviously, you know, that
happens. Like you get older and it's
like, oh, hey, there's somethingchanging here.

(14:38):
And I became very aware of like how I looked And I so that was
like another thing that was a control thing.
It was like, I feel like I don't, I have no control over
what's going on around me, but Ican control this.
So, you know, mom and the pastorget married.
We combine families in this household and I guess, you know,

(15:00):
like, and none of it was againstmy man.
Named Brady. Right, right.
And that's what it was supposed.To be It was the Brady Bunch
minus all the other kids. My poor stepdad.
Like you're just. You're just.
Marsha all by herself. Yeah, swinging my hair, cutting
myself. Oh my.
God, so bad. I know that was that was

(15:21):
twisted, right? But that's seriously like, it
was, it was like my stepdad evensays like he was so naive.
You know, he thought it was going to be this easy thing.
And it was so hard having combined families because he had
his son who was like 88 or 10 years older than me.
Oh, OK. So there was just like all of a
sudden thrown together and I was, I was an ass.

(15:43):
Like I was not nice to him. So just basically like that was
kind of it until, you know, I told you before, like my mom
took me out of our beauty's middle because she's like, that
was your downfall because I was like trying to be the yo girl
with the Reebok Classics and thestarter.
Jacket. Yeah, you know, and like the big

(16:04):
hair and stuff. So this is Oh yeah, yeah, we're
talking what, 919293? I needed the Charlotte Hornet
starter jacket. No clue who they were, but I I'm
gonna. Give I love the Charlotte Hornet
starter jacket. Absolutely.
Yep. I, I, I had to defer to Eric.
I was like, Yep, the half zip. Are you kidding me?
Yeah. Yeah, I like zip.
I'm considering buying one like like recently.

(16:27):
The best color. I never got one either but it's
perfect. Every 90s kid needs a Charlotte
cornet. Thank you Charlotte to see that
be long my. Friend Brandon had a had a San
Francisco 49. Or so that's a big one, yeah.
The Oakland Raiders, that was one look, I dude, and wanted it
so bad, but then I realized you had to put it on over your head
and it messed up my bangs that Iwould spend hours teasing in the

(16:49):
morning. So then I was like, oh, this
isn't gonna work for me. No, it was so bad.
But yeah, you know, I was tryingto figure that, figure stuff
out. And I didn't even really start
doing drugs until like, 'cause then my mom took me out of
there, put me in Sudbrook. And then it was like music and
I'm gonna sing and like, you know, still not eat and keep

(17:11):
going, you know, with all this stuff.
And then when I went to high school, that was cool.
I did love high school. I guess if I could say if there
was like one time in my life growing up where I was good,
that was it. It was like 10th grade through
12th grade. Yeah.
I kind of found my my people. And I was like.
Really interesting enough. There's no responsibility.

(17:34):
Yeah, and it was like those werethe.
And you know, then it's like. Oh, if these are glory.
Days then that's horrible, but like I I look back and I'm like
those were the fun. Those were fun days, yeah.
And then it was like, OK, you'regoing to go to college because
it was always just kind of like,this is what it's going to be
because. Then everything gets serious.

(17:55):
And then you go to school. I mean, then you go to college
and you're like, wait, you don'thave to go to class.
Yeah. I mean, I just, you know, so I
just. That's when it really took off
for me. I met a guy.
You know, it always happens whenof course, like, so I met a guy
and he was, we started like I was working at a restaurant.
I dropped out. Of class like oh fuck off.

(18:17):
Metro. Oh, yeah.
It was always like, yeah, it waslike Jeff, but it was like GEOF.
Oh God, that Jeff. Like G off.
Yeah, you know. Fuck.
I am less. Oh yeah, you should be.
Less get the fuck out of here. Yeah, fake Jeff.
Yeah, you wanna be Jeff? So he probably never had a

(18:38):
Charlotte Hornet started. Jeff, you suck.
You Charlotte's always pull over.
So anyway, so any. Any of our listeners out there,
if it is G if it is, there's no keep judgment.
Yeah, there is no. Keep living the dream, yeah?
Just change your name. So.
We'll send you a starter jacket.Right, right, right, right.
So like he that This is why an oxys like everybody was doing

(19:02):
oxys right cuz. So you graduated high school?
9999, OK and then 2000 and I remember like.
Hey, you're literally, Yeah, my sister, Emily Sage.
Yeah. We like, I was working as a
server cuz it was like that was the only job that, you know, you
like I qualified for. Yeah.
And that was great. 2G's at Carrabba's?
Yep, there a chain Yep, it was so easy you base you you take a

(19:28):
test where OK, I can remember what ingredients are in food
most of the time and then. Especially Italian food.
I talk to people, right? So I was actually like pretty
good at it and I was young, so Icould like party all night and
then go work a double the next day and it was fine.
Now, Oh my gosh, looking at people doing CrossFit, I'm like,
yeah, yeah, it just, yeah, it looks.

(19:50):
Terrible. So fit at what cost?
Yeah. Yeah.
Right. But but you're dead inside.
Dead inside. Yeah, so I basically like.
Started like taking oxys becauseall the people that I worked
with were and we would like hangout after work and you know, do
that and then like, I don't know, I didn't think anything of

(20:13):
it really. I like had smoked weed a few
times. I don't know, I smoked weed
before then, but it really was like weed and then oxys and
then, you know, snoring oxys andthen, you know, they had the 80s
then, which were like they were like magic.
And that just really took off. And I remember, like, I didn't

(20:37):
even know that, you know, I was physically addicted or what
withdrawal was until dude didn'tshow up one day and I had to go
to work and I was like crying atmy tables, like, oh, this is
awful. And I like, you know, felt hot
and then cold and my nose is running and I'm like, what is
going on? I'm like, really?

(20:57):
And somebody brought, yeah, likesomebody brought me up in 80.
And, you know, like, I was like,oh, cool.
And I did it. And then I'm, I remember being
like, I feel uh oh. But then like, right?
Oh, I see problems. Yeah, like literally though, as
soon as I was like, oh, this could be, it was like, OK, time
to do side work. Like that was it.
And that was how I dealt with everything.

(21:18):
Kind of go cut lemons. Yes, let's marry the ketchup and
you know, we're not going to think about this because you
know, and that was always my thing is like I'll deal with
that when I come when it when I come to it.
I didn't want to have anything to do with like
responsibilities. I didn't care about
consequences. I just never thought that far
into it. So your face, you're like, duh.

(21:43):
Like what? Like.
What's the cuts the. Scope of the future was
literally like paycheck hookup. That was it.
Next. One that was.
It like that, that that's as faras we could think.
It was like, what's the next thing?
Like when's the next fucking party?
There was no five year plan. No, and and seriously, the the
five minute plan was like get another one and then that was

(22:06):
the next 5 minute plan and then like and.
Then we're going to Stephanie's.And then right.
And then I got. To work there and.
Then I got to work and then, youknow, like sing happy birthday
in Italian to people that I don't know.
That was great. Can you still sing happy
Birthday in Italian? I mean, I still remember it, but

(22:27):
it was like. Tante Gorreate.
That's it. That's enough.
That's enough. That's.
Enough. That's perfect.
That's perfect voice. So, yeah.
And I went to school for singing, so that's bad.
Cracks really bad for your vocalcords by the way.
That's especially when the Choi gets sucked through.

(22:47):
Yes, yes. Oh God, those damn BP gas
stations know what they're doing.
Fucking rose stems. Yes, like you know that is not
used for anything else but that.Yeah, I thought you always kept
roses in little tiny glass stems.
That's not. Where you keep them right there
in the front, you know, where everyone can see them on
Wilkins. So, so yeah, it was like the the

(23:10):
the plan was just like, keep doing what I was doing.
And, you know, really, it was OKfor a while until people started
stealing from each other. And then, like, people started
getting really bad and it wasn'tfun anymore.
People, like, started going away.
And you know, some of these people, they're, they're not

(23:33):
here, you know what I mean? Like, they're, they're dead.
And obviously like what ended uphappening with a lot of people,
it's like, you know, they got tobe too expensive.
And so then people went. Yeah, you, you hear from one
person, mobile heroin's cheap. And it's like, oh, really?
I'll never do that, you know, But then it's like, well, wait,
yeah, man, when you get sick in the desperation, it's like.

(23:55):
And so that was pretty much like, I guess the beginning of a
almost 20 year long shit show, you know, so it, it really was
just kind of like that on repeat, you know, kind of
getting it together enough so that I could compare out.
So it was like, I have an apartment, but I am going to get

(24:16):
evicted. But mom's going to handle that.
You know, she always bails me out because she's the number one
enabler and I have. Thanks Jesus.
Yeah, you're solid. And you know, and I have a
stepdad who's a pastor, so I have connections with.
Oh yeah, the big man's totally looking out for you.

(24:38):
I'm gonna be fine. I'm I've got this.
Yeah, right. So then it's like, you know, get
fired from that job but get a different job as a server.
You know things are bad when bare bones, restaurant says.
We don't think you're bare bonesmaterial.
Bare bones, like bare bones on Route 40.
Bare bones. There's only one, yeah.

(24:59):
That's the one, and they fired me.
Wait, when were you? Oh God, I probably it would
probably be easier for me to mention to name the restaurants
I did not work at. No, just I'm just trying to
think of years. So I'm like, I definitely like.
Oh yeah, that G off and me. Yeah.
Jeff and you. Yeah, we were there.
Don't worry. I cheated on him with like every
other server there. Of course, you know, that's how

(25:20):
that was my thing too. I couldn't get enough drugs.
I couldn't get off. Brandon and just got frosted
tips. What's up?
Jeremiah. Jeremiah.
Yes. Yeah, there we go.
I'm just putting everybody out there.
Sorry guys. He's a brand new Celica.
It's a big deal. No dude, that's a Hyundai.
Get out. He's a Hyundai man.

(25:41):
He's a Hyundai dude. He's in.
He was actually a Mercury Cougar.
Of course he was. Of.
Course he was. Yeah, I'm.
Just thinking I'm like, did you remember that?
Serve me and Bear. I may have sure.
It's totally. Possible probably did.
So yeah, I worked at so many different places and that was
that was, you know, that was it.And then I'm trying to think of

(26:04):
like, well, so yeah, I started doing heroin, but I only snorted
it, which was like, OK. Oh.
Yeah, look down in your nose. Yeah, and you're using a needle,
you piece of shit. Yeah, not doing that.
I don't even know how, even though.
And then it's funny because like, I still continued, you
know, these things ever go away.Like the eating stuff that
doesn't ever go away. Yeah.
The cutting stuff that doesn't ever go away.

(26:26):
Yes. I don't act out in those areas
anymore, but damn, they get loudsometimes.
Yeah. So I'm like, I have have to
really be vigilant, you know what I mean?
And like, oh, thank God for Narcotics Anonymous because like
I nothing else worked. So I also like clearly I

(26:47):
struggle with depression and I had.
I think it's just the 80s. I think it's like if you were
born in the 80s. If.
You listen to Nirvana and STP and Sal Garden.
Oh yeah. Oh, Alice In Chains.
Yes, I loved that. Yeah.
If you like any of this music, you might have a problem.
Like, Yeah. You're fucked.

(27:08):
Yeah. And you're misunderstood, but we
get it. Yeah.
Did you identify with The Smashing Pumpkins?
Yeah, we have somebody who can talk.
Philly Corgan's a man So. So I actually did have a a
shirt, a smashing pumpkin shirt.Dude, they've been coming up so
much. Really have why though.
I don't know. But like, I, I was always like

(27:29):
a, you know, a temperate Smashing Pumpkins guy.
And for like the last, like for like the last month or so, I've
been like doing a deep dive and I'm like, I really like the
smashing company. I've been like, they've been on
total research. You can own it.
Yeah, I'm not. No, I'm not Anything from the
90s. I am not ashamed to love.
No, it's so true and I loved it all so.
The last time I was great. It and Pearl Jam, they're like

(27:52):
the only ones that are still around.
I know they're. All dead.
Except for Soul Asylum. Soul Asylum was just here last
week. Man, and I just only remember
them with a runaway train, that thing.
And then we dated Winona Ryder. Yes, he did.
And that was like, what I remember.
But. But yeah, like, I this is all
what I love. Cranberries.

(28:14):
Oh, my gosh. Linger.
Yes. RIP.
I know. Let's have a moment.
OK. So that was good.
So yeah, it it was just one of those things where like I felt
like I could, I could never get it, but I don't think I ever
really wanted to enough. Like I never got to that point
of desperation because I was always able to somehow like,

(28:38):
pull it out. Like I would have a car or I
would have car, I would have a car with no insurance and like
the tags would be old and like, you know, I would get, I
remember like one time, I mean, you know, there's a million
stories in between there. One time we moved into this one
girl's house 'cause we were always, I was always trying to,
I was with it was a dude. It's a transient.
Life, that's what it is. Yes.

(28:59):
Yeah. I was like, I'm a gypsy.
I'm a wanderer. Yeah.
And, you know, I was a fucking loser.
Yeah, you know, but that's how we dressed it up.
And I like stayed at this one girl's house in Skaggsville and
she let us stay there for free because we would move pot like
pounds of pot through her house.And I'm, I'm pretty sure she set

(29:21):
us up because the house got raided the night we were
supposed to get like 6 or 7 lbs.And the guy luckily like it, it
fell through and he was like, you know, Tran coming from, I
think it was Pittsburgh, like wewould drive up there and get it.
So like he didn't come through. And I remember like, you know,

(29:43):
hearing like boom, boom, boom police, you know, and this poor,
this poor dude was sleeping on the couch.
He's like. Man, I don't even live here.
I was. Just taking a nap like they
scared the fuck out of him and he's he.
Had the story of Jeff. That was a bad poor guy.
He was having a bad night. But like, you know, they come in

(30:04):
and they, they get there and they had like put your, their
feet on your neck with a gun. And I remember just being like,
I gotta hide the bong as if they're not gonna search the
whole house. Yeah, they're gonna tear this
place. Yeah, that was my first.
That was my best thinking was let me hide the bong.
Yeah, Yeah. So.
Did they zip tie you? Oh yeah, Zip tie me sat me down
and sat us out in the living room.

(30:25):
They really were uncomfortable. Yeah.
Worse than handcuffs. Handcuffs are not so.
Bad. Just give me a fucking handcuff.
Yeah, the zip tie would like cutinto my skin.
I swear to God my hands were. Then like.
I can't see them but I'm pretty sure my hands are dying.
Oh yeah. You couldn't feed there.
There was no circulation. Yep, Yep.
So they put us in the room, in the living room together and let
us watch them just, like, destroy the house.

(30:47):
Yeah, I don't really care because it wasn't my house.
Yeah. I just want to make sure my ball
was OK. Yeah, but.
Did the ball get a name? Oh God, it probably did, I don't
remember. It was a beautiful ball with an
ice catcher. It was perforated stem and all
that shit. Docs, you know, and that's like
what I did on my days off. I was like, let's go to docs and
get like something you know? Get some new glass.

(31:07):
Some new glass, Yeah. So, so basically, like, I
remember them like sitting us down.
They were going through everything and this girl.
Rolls up the most dirty, hairy lines.
Ever. Oh yeah.
Oh. Which one?
Do you? Of course.
Roll they said, of course you have a copy of Scarface, you
know, like and then you know thethe whizzinator, like the thing

(31:31):
that you they found, they found the whizzinator and they're
like, what kind of weird shit are you guys doing?
We were like, it's not what you think it is dumb cop like.
You fucking? Piss.
There's probably still piss in there.
I hope you got it on you fuck. You.
Dude. So yeah, so she came in like she
drove up in the middle of the raid, like with all these cops,

(31:51):
there's no way that like she didn't.
And then I remember she was verylike, can you not mess that up?
And like, did you let my cat out?
So she we got felony charges, but they didn't, they didn't
stick. So I had to get on this thing
called Break the Cycle where it was on probation.
This is when I was living now inEllicott City on top of the

(32:13):
little shop where I was telling you about and I was on methadone
and I remember I was so I was terrified that I wasn't gonna
get saw each other. Huh.
We did. We definitely So we just.
I know we did. Yeah, I was using it all the way
to the middle all the damn time.Oh, I was fucking messed.
Yeah. Ellicott City, dude.
And so. Yeah, so it was Eric, dude, that

(32:34):
was, that was the fucking part. That was the.
That was the bar crawl. That was that was 100% the
beauty. Was like they they had like what
ladies night and then. They actually what was White
Girl Wednesday was. White Girl Wednesday.
Oh my God, that was old. Elegant white girls would act
like black girls. It is what's out.
Dude, it's very. Depressing.
What happened to old Ellicott City?

(32:55):
Yeah it really is. Cause like now the bars close
it. Like the only bar that stays
open I think is Phoenix. I think everything else closes.
The scene and then well, and then this is way before the
whole blood happened where like the whole thing that was.
That's where that's what we're saying like the flood, the.
Flood killed the. Flood killed the night like.
Did it's 'cause? Dude, you couldn't.
You couldn't, Dr. Tersecles. Was.

(33:16):
There, yeah, I think. Tersecles.
It was judges, bench, Diamondbacks, Coco, Coco, Lapas,
Lapas. Alka Mills.
Brewery, company and and the Phoenix all within what?
You could bear in. US St. 500 yards of each other
like it. Wasn't and they they.
Were so smart, but they were so.Smart on Wednesdays and how they

(33:39):
did their specials because it was like it was dollar rails and
dollar beers and they switched off the hours.
So they switched off the. Hours right at 9:00 always.
Like. Ten.
Yeah, we're going to diamonds. You have a good old.
Yeah, and you just slip into theone of the back of the alleys
and fucking I smoke hit A1 hitter, Yeah.
Oh yeah. And so yeah, like that was that

(34:00):
was like, you know, high school and them those were the.
The glory days. Yeah.
Yeah. So basically like I was on
methadone because I remember like thinking I just needed a
daily dose. I just needed to not be ill in
and you know, they let you control your dose.
Yeah, which is like really it's all that's just it's all that
money. So as long as I they got there

(34:21):
80 bucks a week, I could go up to 100 milligrams.
But I didn't want to go past that because then I would have
to see the doctor and that was too much worse.
Oh yeah. So I got, I was up at like 95
milligrams. I'm super, super sick all the
time. 99 milligrams. 99.9 point nine, yeah.
Did I catch a Niner in there? Are you ordering from a

(34:41):
walkie-talkie? Right now your head's got the
shell on it. So it was like go to oh, so when
we got when they raided the house, I was just terrified that
I wasn't going to get my dose. And that's what happened.
Like I went to jail. They were trying to get me to
roll, of course. And then?

(35:03):
They Howard County got rolled, yeah.
Yeah. And then I had to go to, you
know, I stayed overnight. They said you got to see the
commissioner and I got let out like right after the clinic
closed. So I was, I was like terrified,
you know, I illed that day. And then like the next day, they
always said, like, go to the hospital, right?
And I'm like, OK, you guys give me a medal because I'm going to

(35:25):
the hospital and doing the responsible thing.
I'm not going to cops. So like, give me my fucking
medal. Give me my methadone.
So I go to the hospital, never felt so shamed, like they looked
at me like such a piece of shit they stuck me in A room.
Which hospital? Howard.
Howard County general, probably.Yeah.
Oh my God. I should have gone to Bayview.

(35:47):
Like, I should have gone to Bayview.
Yeah. They'd have been like, here you
go. See ya.
Yup. Come all through.
Yeah. Next.
Yeah, it'd have been like a drive through, just like there.
You go, yeah, there. I mean, that that was bad choice
if I like thinking back, but like I literally they gave me,
they sat me in a room all day, gave me a shot of Clonidine and

(36:07):
I remember just thinking like, God, I'm trying to do the right
thing. I really don't want a cop.
And at this point, I might as well just like stick it out
because I can go there tomorrow.I like did the Hayes program.
You remember Doctor Hayes? That was like the thing
everybody was doing back. Remember Doctor Hayes?
OK. He comes out the woodwork.
Yeah, yeah, man, it was like. Yeah, you forget Erics here.

(36:28):
And then you said something and you're like, what the fuck?
I know it's my, I'm like, it's my voice, the voice in my head.
No, he's over there. Yes.
See, so I'm like, I'm like man, this guy was great.
You could go down there, give him cash.
You didn't have to have insurance.
He'd give you your 5 little envelopes and stuff and then,
you know, you'd go right back out and get high again.
But I tried all these different things, right?

(36:51):
And so I finally got off methadone because I was really
sick. Like I only was going to be on
it for like six weeks, ended up being on it for four years.
Of course. And they kept telling me like
how bad it was going to be getting off.
And here's my counselor, right? Like no, you know, no

(37:11):
disrespect, but like this guy that he had so many clients and
what he did his like idea of like therapy was like yo, I got
these these bootleg DVD's and these sneakers in my trunk if
you want to holler at me after you get your dope.
And that's what he did in the parking lot.
He sold bootleg DVD's for like $2.00 and sneakers real.

(37:35):
Real Island is the best, worst place on earth.
And I was like, what? And I would get one and I'd be
like, why are there like peep figures, like walking across the
screen? Oh, that's what a bootleg is.
I didn't even know. I was just like, OK, so I
finally got off of it. I like got down to like 30-40

(37:57):
milligrams. But every time I would go up to
the window like the fear I'd be like and I would like freeze
like I couldn't ask to go down because I was just so I I did do
not recommend this. I just literally like locked
myself in my apartment and just illed for like 3 months.
It was the most brutal withdrawal I've ever gone

(38:20):
through. Restless leg.
Oh, my God, I was pounding, likepunching my legs.
And I didn't sleep for like, at least a solid 30 days.
And then I would close my eyes and I would feel like I slept
for maybe like a couple hours and I'd look and been had been
like 10 minutes. And I'm like, what the fuck?
Cried every day. Yeah.

(38:42):
And then this thing, this break the system thing that I had
gotten, I had to go down to the courthouse every other day for a
year straight and pee in front of this big black lady.
And like, you know, I would get the stage fright and she'd be
like, you need to drink some water because you need to have
this at 11:00 AM. And I'm like, I can't do it.

(39:03):
So the only time I could actually pee is if I didn't take
my morning pee. So I run there right out of bed,
pee and then and it didn't breakshit.
Like the cycle continued, you know, So then I remember like I
couldn't smoke weed that whole time though.
And when they when that was over, I was so happy that I
could smoke weed again. I got super paranoid, but I

(39:25):
powered through and then like that's what helped me to get off
the methadone is I just smoked aton of weed.
So I did get off the methadone and that was the first time that
I actually tried like something.I went to a a because people
said it's more consistent. I was in Ellicott City and this
was like Columbia area, so it was close and I managed to get

(39:50):
like six months and you know, I got a sponsor.
I did AA step work. So like I did all of them in
like a. Week 72 hours, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I was cured. Yep.
And then did. You burn the four step.
Yes, I did the whole burning thing and I was like, this is
really bad for the environment. Like, should we be doing this?
But it was OK. I'm like, it was worth it

(40:11):
because now I'm free. And so then, you know, I
remember, like, getting that taste though, that hit of like,
hope and like, wow, maybe I can actually do this.
I really, really, you know, I had some good people around me.
We would go to a movie every Friday night.
I remember the first time I wentthrough a sobriety checkpoint,

(40:34):
the cop was like, you're he's like, hey, have you been
drinking tonight? I was like, no, yeah.
Not me, not. Me.
Not this time. Want to see my key tag?
Yeah, I went to a movie night and I was like, all right, keep
it moving, you know? But I was like, so happy.
And then I. Don't have those anymore.
I don't know. I don't think so, but I haven't

(40:55):
seen one in. 40 right where? Right where it dips down up
into. Oh, right, right, when it goes
out to like marriage. Between Normandy.
Where the woods? Are.
Yeah, yeah, right down there. That's always where it was.
Well, and now I. Avoided that road like a fucking
plague. It would be, yeah.
It was like 108, you know, And if if they see you turn around,
they're your. Father, Yeah.

(41:15):
They're gonna. Follow.
You, yeah. So, but yeah, I never see them.
But now thank God for like ways 'cause it'll be like speed trap
up ahead. I'm like, thank you.
Mothers Against Drunk Drivers. Ahead.
Yeah, I just got a speeding ticket and I'm like fuck, I
forgot that one was there cuz now I just speed, but I know
where they're at. So I slowed down when I'm, you

(41:36):
know, that's how I live life now.
So it basically was like, you know, a really good like
beginning and then I, you know, went and worked at PF Chang's
and they made me the bar manager.
And I remember thinking like anyany one of us do, It's like do.

(41:57):
You have changs in the Columbia?Mall.
Oh yeah, At the Columbia Mall, it was packed.
It was always jamming and I was like, I'm a manager, I'm
important. Wait, when did you work there?
Oh God, this is all a big blur. I guess it was probably like
like. 20. 2010 Yeah 8. So that's right around DID.
You work with Jack and all them working there, Yeah.

(42:18):
Yeah, yes. That's how I knew.
Jack, Brad and Kyle, we're all working at fucking PF chat.
My gosh, I love Jack. Hey, I love you.
That's I forgot just now I remembered how I knew him 'cause
I remember seeing him in meetings would be like I know I
fucking know him but I didn't have the balls to ask him where
PF chat where. Yep.
So that was, yes, it was a, it was a good crew.

(42:41):
And then I like. It's amazing that literally like
four people in recovery were working PF Chang's.
PF Chang, it was bad. Oh my gosh.
We would party. We would close PF Chang's and
we'd go next door to Champs, youknow, or we'd go to whatever the
place was. That was always.
Like whatever, yeah. Yeah, so I don't even think
cheesecake was up yet. It was something else.

(43:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but yeah, so that was like,
again, that was on repeat what we did.
And this time, though, I was off2007.
I was still using they so they were clean, but yeah.
And my girlfriend at the time worked at that Cheesecake
Factory, so no. So no, it definitely was.
Open it maybe this was like right before, yeah, 'cause I
think they were like starting toopen it.

(43:23):
And I remember thinking like, oh, maybe I can work there.
But the menu was absolutely, yeah, nuts.
And I was like, nuts. I'm not going somewhere to watch
slideshows for 8 hours. Like I'll just stay here or
whatever. Yeah, 'cause I was my
entitlement, you know, is very real.
Yeah, I'm entitled to my drugs. I'm entitled, yeah.
And I'm entitled to work whatever shitty restaurant I

(43:43):
choose. Yeah.
So my shitty restaurant of choice was PF Chang's at that
time, Yeah. And I.
Everybody tried the Bang Bang shrimp.
They're good. It was really good.
And the spicy chicken, Yeah, Poke, egg roll, spicy chicken,
spicy chicken. That was so good.
Bang. Bang.
Bang shrimp. Beef Mongorian.

(44:04):
Oh my God, so good. So anyway, I, I remember like
thinking, I just need to prove to myself that I can drink.
You know, that was never the problem.
So that's and I was a bar manager, so that's when that
happened. And you know, like obviously
like anybody like I didn't drinkfor the taste.

(44:25):
I was looking for the effect, I was looking for the feeling and
I would drink until, you know, it was disgusting.
It was and like for a while. What was it?
What did you go back to? What was the drinking?
I mean really like tell. Me, it was Rumble Mints.
Oh, I could not. I couldn't do Jaeger.
I loved Rumble. I could you.
You're the only person I've evermet that liked to actually know.

(44:46):
There was. One of so many of us.
It was Christmas in a shot and. It was.
There was. It was.
It was. Great.
It was Mary and it was mistletoe.
Yeah, it was like, it was. It was like tasting Bing Crosby
beating his children every time.Oh.
My God, I love it that. Is a horrible statement.
I can't believe I just said that.
It's terrible, yeah. I'm like, yeah.
No. That's terrible.
That's so funny. Yeah, I mean.

(45:08):
I don't even think anybody. I think I did.
Anymore, it was just our generation.
It's out of business now. And I would drink Yingling and
all what I tried to be sophisticated.
And I would drink Ramay with my pinky up.
Yes, of course. Do you know?
Yeah, that was. I had two or three years of
Grand Marnier 'cause my girlfriend at this time, Shayla.
Eric. Oh, she bought a bitch.
Dude, we we we loved Grand Marnier and.

(45:32):
He's the best little man together.
Peanut Gallery. Oh yeah, he's great.
He's the best hype man. What a bitch.
Yeah, yeah, Shayla was something.
He's the statler to my Waldorf. There we go, I know I love you
guys. So I do think that like I drank
like vodka really, it was like, because then that was less
calories and I loved wine and, you know, yeah, whatever I think

(45:56):
I drank like, you know, some Rickle off or some nasty shit,
whatever was real, just because it was cheap and hot.
And then Ricky, I remember like that led into this whole and
like my parents still thought I was clean and like that just
really, you know, as if it I mean, yes, it just kept getting

(46:18):
worse, right. So then I remember eventually,
like it always goes back to our drug of choice.
So I ended up getting back on like I was doing perks and then
like the Oxys weren't they stopped making the 80s, but then
Opanas were out and then like the other things.
So like I just went back to thatand then and then like, you

(46:41):
know, I had the same insane thinking of like I just need a
daily dose. So I started getting Suboxone
because it was new and it wasn'tas bad as methadone.
And actually I never once got itfrom a doctor.
I knew a guy and he always had it and I took I would only take

(47:02):
like 4 milligrams. Yeah, that was so weird when you
would go do a drug deal for Subs. 10 bucks, that was it,
like and like, so it was cheap. I always had enough money for it
and it allowed me to like function, you know, I went back
to school on those things. Like I got it.
Here's the best. I got a degree in chemical
dependency counseling, all in Suboxone.

(47:23):
That's. Amazing on the Dean's list.
So imagine how good I would havedone if I actually, like, wasn't
all fucked up. Yeah.
But then, like, then, you know, like I, I like, was on Suboxone
for a while and I actually wasn't doing too bad.
Like, yeah, I would drink. Yeah.
But it was like, I would wait until I started feeling a
littlest bit ill and then I would take that 4 milligrams and

(47:43):
like it. And I was with a guy who I was
with for four years and he had no clue I was on them four
years. I just I would put them in the
little Listerine. Yep, Yep, Yep.
Looked just like it and you know.
Can I get one of your Listerine packs?
Absolutely not. Sure, yeah, sure can't.

(48:06):
Yeah. Sure can't go walk your ass down
to 711. You can have an Altoid.
There you go. Right, I believe you have some
Aqua fresh in the. Get the fuck out of here.
You just throw some Binocca at him.
Yeah, here you go. Do they?
Use Binocca. Like what was that movie dumb
and dumb and where he's. Like, yeah, he sprays inside,

(48:26):
Yeah. Oh God.
So then essentially like that was towards the end where like
because then I found Xanax and Istarted.
So I took my degree and I went and got a job.
I snorted it. I let it dissolve OK under my
tongue, but I took my degree. That's the title.

(48:50):
What I let my degree dissolve over my tongue.
Please get it me. Yes, absolutely.
I let my degree dissolve under my tongue.
That's amazing. Yay, I love it.
I couldn't come up with that. It's a good video that's.
Fucking. Hilarious.
I love it. So I took it and went and worked

(49:13):
at Mountain Manor which. 1. The one.
Irvington. Yeah, Irvington.
No, the the one, the only one. Well, there's there's
Emmettsburg. Oh yeah, that was a good one.
They wouldn't hire. Good one.
Yeah, no. No, it was terrible.
Oh God. And like, so to continue like my
wonderful downfall, I was using at work, right?

(49:38):
I was using at work and that's asounds like a band.
That's an album. Yeah, wonderful.
Yes, brought row seats to my wonderful downfall.
Eric Wave band title. There you go, you guys.
What's the band title? My wonderful downfall.
That's like a song. It could be.
It could be an album. It's like My Chemical Romance,
you know? Shit on your band title.

(49:59):
That's what it does. OK.
You're gonna need to find a new hype man.
He takes the wind out of my sails every day.
So we all need one of them, right?
Yes. Bring me back.
Down. Yeah, you brought me back down.
Thank you. You're my Xanax, Eric.
How many of him do you take a day?
Right, Because I took like. Sometimes too much, sometimes

(50:20):
not enough. I took like 5 bars like to start
out. It was cool yeah.
And yeah, you know, like, I lostmonths and months I'd be at
work, like doing intakes. Like, yeah.
So look, I'm going to get real honest.
I was a disgusting person. I used with a patient here.
They are coming to us for help. You're the first person to ever

(50:43):
do that. It felt like it was.
It a girl or a guy? It was a girl.
Interesting. I still really, really struggle
with that because it was an, it was while she was there, while
we were there at work. Like she came in for an
assessment and they all brought,Yeah, it wasn't like outside.
What did you use with her? Ativan.
She brought in her Ativan and like I did the assessments and

(51:05):
then like they would bring in the medication.
How did this even happen? I could just see like a
situation where you're just liketwiddling your fingers and
you're like, oh, Ativan, don't mind if I do.
Make one for you. One for me, yeah, that's
basically. One for you, 212 for me.
That's pretty much how it happened.
Am I gonna lie? Thank you Bugs Bunny for your
counting methods. I'm so sorry, whoever this girl

(51:27):
was. Yeah.
So, Eric, how did that happen? So I, she came in and they
always brought their medication with them.
I did their assessment, you know, like the, the, the BPS,
the biopsychosocial gave the meds to the nursing.
Once I got them, you know, afterthey saw me, they would go down
there and they would get medicated.
So we did the assessment and I started talking to her and, you

(51:48):
know, we took them and I. Also see you like doing like the
the BPS like talking to her and like OK, yeah everything and you
just start. Crossing it and you're like, oh,
what age were you and what was the root of administration?
Yeah, OK. I'm right, OK.

(52:09):
OK, actually, she said if you dissolve, if you let it dissolve
under your tongue, like my degree, Yeah.
Then that it lasted longer. So that's what we did.
Oh, OK. So.
So did you ever Booth? I'm just gonna ask it straight
up. Actually, no 'cause I never went
to jail long enough to have to. I.
Have I have an amazing fact about that?

(52:29):
About goofing, About boofing? Do you?
Do you know why it is called boofing?
Gives up your butt. Nobody, nobody, nobody goes good
because in in the late 1800s there was a French doctor named
Boufier who would medically put no would medically, yes, Boufier

(52:50):
would put heroin up your butt and and along your anus to cure
your headaches. What an awesome man.
What a good. It.
Actually it has a French it it has delineated from Doctor
Bouffier. Who would?
Who would rectally put? Maybe.
Up your butt, Doctor Bear. Remember heroin, Bear.

(53:10):
Bear started heroin. No, you're probably right,
Bouffier. That.
That's amazing. Would you like some?
Heroin in your I do so. I learned that fucking I learned
that like in a week. Ago your asshole.
I was like, no way. Like it came through on a meme
and I was like, I was like, no. Way and I.

(53:30):
Googled it, it was. Fucking Doctor.
Boo fuck Doctor Hayes like. She's fucking.
I mean, shit it's gonna give you.
This the is he? Gonna give you a prostate
massage at the same time. Shit, we'll get a happy ending.
Milk your frost prostate. Hell yeah.
Well, milk it with. Two fingers.
Away or make it 3 keep. OK, no boofing.
You did the Ativan. Keep going.

(53:52):
Yeah, so I did that and I also it's a really long.
It. Was a total boof.
We boof we. Oh my God.
Yeah. So that was I totally lost my
shared thought. I'm like, how else is the word
booth? I can just hear him.

(54:12):
Oh, let me give you some heroin.In your butt hole.
Oh, you want to say heroin? I'm.
Sorry you have a headache. Oh, so let me just prescribe
some heroin for your asshole. I need you just that thin pencil
mustache. You smoking a cigarette, The
whole would. You like a finger each dildo.
These won't. Do so.
I have plenty for you, wee wee. I hate you.

(54:35):
No, not the wee wee the other. Side not the wee wee the the the
booty. Jean Claude Buffier, I have two
service. Oh.
My God. OK, I put stuff up your.
Butt I had to put stuff up my butt and let it marinate.
So they I basically also like did I?

(54:56):
So I did that. I I was not functioning.
I was just like there and I alsowas not like, you know, I always
like wanted attention and validation from guys and like I
always had a guy and I'm of course, you know, I would not
leave one until I had one gearedup and right on deck to transfer

(55:16):
to and you're. Moving from Jeff to Jean Claude
Bouffier. Yeah.
And then? I mean, at least he puts stuff
up your metal. That's really true.
G off. Yeah, he he fake Jeff.
Yeah, fuck. Fake Jeff.
Yeah. So like, basically I started
like being inappropriate with myboss at Mountain Manor and he,

(55:39):
well, he started being inappropriate with me, right?
Yeah. And I allowed.
It to him, it's not your fault. It.
Takes 2 to. Take.
Definitely. It was, yeah.
Yeah, she's very much an adult. That's not the.
It wasn't like I'm not. Was there still a guy named Ken
working there? Yes, I Ken was my first ever
counselor. Okay, yeah, no, he wasn't a bad

(56:01):
guy. He was a cool dude, like he was
just a regular dude too like which I really liked.
He wasn't an addict, he was justa normal straight up guy.
Like the I had a really bad experience with it, but I know
like there are some good people there and like, you know, so
ultimately that just like all blew up, you know what I mean?
Like I was having an affair withthis guy who was married, who

(56:24):
was my boss, who you know, and like, so I was just I.
Think I know. He was not a good guy and and
like now looking back, it's likejust so disgusting.
Wow. 100%. Wow, OK.
All right, wait. Do I keep it moving?

(56:46):
Do I know the person? We'll talk about it after the
pod. I wrote it down because I
didn't, you know, that's. Yeah, fair, fair.
So sensitive information, right.So that was and like that is
100%. Like that was very clearly like
me going against my morals because the other stuff wasn't
as much. For some reason though, this was

(57:06):
I. Was you were a good pastor
stepdaughter? Yeah.
Like at least I would cheat withguys who were also single.
Like I never did this with a married person.
I don't know, for whatever reason, it really, I was
disgusted with myself. And at this point I was like,
I'm just a complete, you know, and the set, the shaming and the
self, the low, the negative selftalk, like all of that stuff.

(57:28):
It just really got loud. And so finally like I start,
this is when I was on Suboxone. I broke up with that guy, moved
back into my parents house, you know, got fired from there, but
they said it was for something else.
So luckily I didn't lose my license.
So but at that point, like I told my mom that I was on

(57:48):
Suboxone, I told them I finally wasn't clean.
I'm sure they figured it out. But then I went to Colmac.
Color me shocked. You went to Colmac?
Went to Colmac in Columbia and. I went there for a little.
Bit I mean, it was, it was the best that like that I could come
up with at the time because I was not about to like go in

(58:09):
inpatient anywhere. And so they, I got my, they were
doing this weird thing there where they would like treat
getting off of Suboxone with more Suboxone stimulants.
Oh, that's nice. Stimulants they were giving me
that's great. Ritalin and Adderall and the
thought process behind it. Yeah, We ever.
Snorted kratom you might want totry well.

(58:29):
Don't no, no, no, no. Don't listen to David.
Don't snort kratom. No, we're not.
We're not. Take it.
Orally, do not do not put it. Up your.
Boots. Put it up your boots.
Put. It up your boots.
That's what all the kids are gonna start saying.
Just put it up your boots. Have you tried boofing?
Yeah, yeah. So that was.

(58:50):
My wonderful downfall by documentation.
That was the thing that they said.
They said that because Suboxone like your dopamine is so
depleted that if they give you Ritalin then that will but it's
but you can't give an addict anything that take that feels so
I would take all 30 of them in aday.
All the Ritalin. Oh my.

(59:11):
God and be like what do you? See, that's what my glad that's
actually my good Lord, my wife. I mean, it was that too.
Yeah, glad stuff. Scary it was, but it was amazing
though. That's an amazing Spaceballs
reference, Eric. Right there.
Oh. Glad speed.
We hate that shit. What?
Good. Good job, Lindsay.
Actually, I know exactly what you're referencing.

(59:32):
Yeah, when they're combing the. Same the desert 2 blacks
troopers are using the pig. Then we found shit.
We are surprised. By assholes.
It's major asshole. Love where he's like we can't
stop. It's too dangerous.
That's the best. Movie he smashes his head, He

(59:54):
smashes his head and. He's like, have we stopped?
Great, great. Okay.
Coke in a cigar. Smoke him if you got him.
Falls over Rick Moranis, if you're listening to this, and I
hope you're not, if you're not adry.
And yeah, John, he's gone. Yeah, he's gone.
But Rick Moranis, you're a goddamn gem.
And thank you. Canada, yes, that is so true

(01:00:16):
man. Strange brew.
So yeah, I basically at that point, like they I was like, OK,
I'm just going to do this stuff.And then I started to like
really have a breakdown. Like this is, you know, after
all this time, I really started to unravel.
I couldn't like this point. I was just going to Colmac.

(01:00:39):
I don't even think I was working.
And like, I would literally likego in the woods, like around
where we were talking about before.
And I would just like, walk around and drink and cry And
like, there were plenty of times.
You were the Blair Witch. I was the fucking worst than the
Blair. I was the fucking mental.
Yeah. The twisted pathological player

(01:01:00):
which you. Was you were the one in Hell
House making the sounds? Yeah.
It was more like. That's.
That's that's Lynn's. Yeah.
Stay away from her, she'll cry herself.
Out she'll yeah, yeah, hopefullyshe'll eventually just jump.
That's what I would do. I would go down there and I
would just be like, this is fucking awful.
I could not get off that last milligram of Suboxone.

(01:01:22):
Oh, yeah. It was so hard.
And like nobody always talks. It was such a mental thing.
Finally, like I went, I, I had asponsor here.
I was like, you know, collectingfake clean time here.
I was going to meetings at West Side and like, there was a lot
of good recovery around here. I just was like.
You know what's a good way to get off it?
Actually just for people? No, no kratom.

(01:01:45):
Kratom is a good way to get off that last milligram for people
that are struggling with it. It's like it's legal and it
doesn't fuck you up as much as suboxone, but it is a good way
to get off of it. Just don't boof it.
It's crazy, yeah. It's actually crazy, though, how
many people are coming into treatment now for Cradle.
That's. Wild.
Yeah, you can't. You can, really.
You can't use. It but it is it is a very, it's

(01:02:06):
a nice natural opiate like, you know, maintenance medication
like it's natural. It's kind of cool, yeah.
We're not promoting it, though. No, no.
No, we're just saying if you're in the position of where you are
coming off of Suboxone, I would guess I would try this.
If your choice is kratom or heroin, go with the kratom.
Go with the kratom. Kratom do not.

(01:02:27):
Kill. You do not.
It won't kill you. No, I mean, I'm like.
Honestly, I went online and I googled these things and it was
saying like to get off Suboxone.Like literally it was saying
like do heroin for five days andthen take Xanax and then you
know, so. I I've done that there before.
Yeah, there were. Worse ways, of course, you know.
Well, benzos are a great way to get off, right?
Yeah, because you just. Fall sleep the whole time.

(01:02:49):
Yeah. Pretty much, yeah.
But yeah. So I ended up like saying to my
like my mom. And, you know, I was cutting
myself like, constantly. And they finally were.
Like we're gonna have to. Can I ask a question about that?
Where did you cut? All over like.
Where's your main spot though? In my inner thighs, but also all

(01:03:10):
over my arms, I mean. Upper arms.
All over there's pretty pretty bad ones like on my lower arms
too. I mean I got some tattoos to
cover up the upper arms but. Yeah, my upper arms are just
shredded. Yeah, I didn't really care,
honestly. Like I used to try to hide it,
but it was like and you know, obviously that whole like

(01:03:32):
thinking ahead thing because at some time I'm going to have to
explain this to my daughter, youknow, and like I didn't think
about that. So there is.
How do we get to the end? Let's.
You're like, you're like, hurry it up.
No, no, no, absolutely not. This is my this is my favorite
podcast of all time. This is amazing.
You probably say that to. All of them.

(01:03:55):
No. Do I look like Jeff to you?
I love it. So yeah, I, I basically said I'm
gonna kill myself. I went to the hospital, so I'm
gonna kill myself. They, you know, admitted me.
I told him I was on like .25 milligrams of Suboxone.
They said no, you're not. It's all in your head.

(01:04:15):
And they basically gave me like Ativan and they kept me a couple
days and they said do you want to stay here?
Do you want to go to Shepherd Pratt?
So I went to Shepherd Pratt. I hooked up with a guy in
Shepherd Pratt. Of course we got out.
We went to port recovery stop. I know see, I'm trying to speed
it up. It gets.
Creep stop stop because I hear about this all the time.
My wife hooked up with someone in a treatment center wants to

(01:04:37):
and I was like how do you fuck? Do you do that?
Because usually I keep boys and girls apart but I know there's
you find a way so. What finds away how they didn't?
Fuck, did you hook up with someone at Shepherd Pratt?
So they didn't keep us apart, really.
That's true. We were in our own rooms, but
like we would we didn't like, you know, bang.
We didn't have sex or anything in in the in shepherd do.
Though you said you hooked up though.

(01:04:57):
Well, we hooked up like, you know, made out.
OK, OK, so, but like then it waslike, here's my number.
You know, he got out, I got out,right?
And I paid for him to go to portrecovery because I was like,
here you go, I'll save you. Let me fix you because then I
don't focus on me. So that was my thing.

(01:05:18):
And then we did that. He ended up showing me the first
time to inject. Like it just got worse from
there. We moved to Florida.
Like, you know, we were in Glen Burnie.
We got tax returns, You know, wewere squatting.
Glen Burnie to Florida. That's a lateral move.
We were squatting in a house in Glen Burnie with one charge of
energy that we were stealing from the neighbors.

(01:05:40):
So there was like no hot water, Like, no.
Sound like my neighbor in Sykesville.
Maybe that's it was a. Year Have you ever been in Glen
Burnie? Right.
No, it was so bad, but I had a car that I had.
That was my saving grace since Ihad the car.
But then I sold the car for a gram of heroin, right?
Yeah. Pretty.
Much, pretty much. Maybe there was maybe it was

(01:06:01):
two. I'm.
Trying to think of how much a gram of heroin would cost like
that's. It was.
It was. Ripped off, I feel like it.
Was not. I didn't know.
Yeah, I'm sure I got ripped off.I'm sure the black drug dealer
that gave me the heroin knew he was ripping me off.
Yeah. For my car, Yeah.
But you know, I also was like, you know what kind of car it was
a Toyota. No.

(01:06:21):
Yeah. Honda Civic stick shift.
I loved it was a great car. Yeah.
And I cried to my mom to get herto give.
Me. That thing is still probably
driving. It's killing it probably yeah no
5th gear, just go fast and forthyeah.
So I I essentially ended up completely unraveling.
Like that's the thing, like it took me a really long time to

(01:06:41):
hit the Nevers. But like once I, once I got with
this guy and I was completely cut off from like everyone, I,
you know, started injecting, I started smoking crack for the
first time. And then like we decided that
like we had burned all the bridges here.
So we said the best thing to do was move to Florida because we
needed to just get away from Baltimore, you know, and and

(01:07:05):
then really like, I remember like being in Florida and
calling my mom and she had finally, like she had been going
to Narnan and she had finally said, I'm done.
She was like everything with youwas so urgent.
Like I called her and I was like, I need to get out of here.
And she made me wait And I had to like figure out a recovery
house. You know, I've never been
homeless. I've never been jobless.

(01:07:25):
I was completely disgusting. And she said, you got to wait.
And I remember like being in Florida with nobody and like
they were still getting high andI would just go for walks.
And it was like that was torture.
Like it was absolute hell. I was just holding on trying to

(01:07:46):
get through each day like pleaseGod, Get Me Out of here.
I would come back, I would see them high.
It looked so good and like it was awful.
So then finally that's where allof the everything really
started. Like I came back here, I went to
the hen house with 14 other crazy bitches and but like,
thank God for them. And a lot of them are still

(01:08:08):
around. Yeah, the hen house actually.
What is the hen house? So it's one promise, but it's a,
it's one of the female houses. And it was like the girls were
like the graduating class of 2015.
Like they are still around a lotof them they are still like
sponsoring. It was a good group, yes, good

(01:08:28):
core group, which is like amazing And we really like held
each other up. I obviously did not listen to
the don't get in a relationship,of course, which, you know,
that's what I did. I knew what I knew how to do.
I did what I know how to do best.
So but he was totally different.I remember the first time I
heard RJ and he'll tell you thiscompletely differently.

(01:08:50):
But I remember him like sharing about feelings and he was
actually like rubbing Dalton's back, you know, like they were
being stupid together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, and but he was talkingabout feelings.
And I remember being like, whoa,like I nobody ever talked like
that. No.
And he actually like was talkingabout hope and he was talking
about like, I could tell he had some shit.
And I was like, wow. And I went up to him afterwards

(01:09:11):
because I didn't know the whole like, girls stick with girls,
guys stick with guys. And I said like.
RJ, when you do listen to this, I absolutely love you.
And I've always had just the up mount us the matter like respect
and admiration for you. So just yeah.
We're not stroking your beer. You're really your beer to them
off. Stroke your beer to that one.
Jeez, no, I love. I love, I love Rji, always have.
He's yeah. I mean, he he was saying some.

(01:09:33):
It was like this Sunday morning,step into the late meeting, and
that used to be the shit. So I went up to him and I said,
like, I really, really liked what you had to say.
And this month he hit me with a stiff arm and said, well, men
stick with the men and women stick with the women.
Yeah, I appreciate. That.
Yeah, he said. But you never have to use again.
And I remember being like, OK, first challenge accepted.

(01:09:54):
OK, I'm gonna get this now. Like, you're telling me not no.
OK, So I and I did. But I also was like, wow, I
never have to, you know? And I remember, like, Morgan was
my friend and like, Dalton was, she was dating Dalton.
And then, like, we ended up justlike, hanging out and Morgan and

(01:10:16):
I moved out together. She, you know, we got an
apartment. She continued to date Dalton.
Now they're married. They have a kid.
You know, we so like, you know, we really just started like
digging in. I remember my first sponsor was
amazing. I needed somebody to tell me,
like to control me, pretty much like to tell me exactly like you

(01:10:37):
need to do this at this time. And she was amazing.
I remember like thinking, Oh my God, I want to be like her.
You know Amy Patton. OK.
Yeah, so, but it was, you know, it, that was obviously like one
of the things that, you know, I put her on a pedestal and I

(01:10:58):
shouldn't have done that, you know what I mean?
And like, whatever she served her, she served like in my life,
the time that I needed her the most.
And I'm still so appreciative ofher.
But like, that ended and I had to move on.
I've had a few different sponsors.
Right now I have Lindsay Tucker and she's amazing.
I've had her for like 3 years and she's one of my best

(01:11:19):
friends. You.
You picked another Lindsay as your sponsor?
Yeah. Is she a Lindsay with ADD?
Yes. Oh, she gets the D.
Yeah, she gets the D, She gets the D, But honestly, I started
working steps. Like the steps are probably my
favorite part. I had 20 years worth of shit,
you know what I mean? I was carrying around 4th step.
Favorite step by far. I did the one from Hazleton and

(01:11:44):
like the, the, the whole thing and it was like intense, but
really like I finally, you know,I was able to like at my life
was clearly unmanageable. That was not hard for me to to
see. I did not want to surrender.
I still struggle with surrender,of course, on a daily basis
because I want what I want when I want it and I want my way.

(01:12:05):
Yep, even though I know my way, it's usually shit.
Yeah, I still want it cuz I convince myself that it's right.
It's mine, yeah. Right, I'm the one that thought
it up, right? I tell myself in the voice I'm
most likely to listen to. Puts us, yeah, it puts us in
control of the narrative. So I really like started to get

(01:12:26):
some things back. I started to feel better.
I started to like mend my relationships.
I started to, you know, I went back to school, I got a job that
that allowed me to get insuranceand like be like a productive
member of society. And I sort of what I realized is
that I sort of was making this list in my head, you know, like

(01:12:49):
I was 34. So I had just, I'm, I'm thinking
I got to make up for lost time, right?
Like I have enough time left that I can still live a very
happy and fulfilled life and make my mom proud.
It was all about like, I'm goingto, I make my mom proud and you
know, I still have enough time, but I got to get cracking, so
let's go. And it was like, all right, God,

(01:13:10):
here's the memo. Here's the list.
Like I'll turn it over to you, but this is how it needs to go.
And so I, I got the things, I got the husband, you know, we
got married, we got the house, Igot the job.
Like things were. So to me it was like, OK, if I
do recovery and I do the steps and I do this thing, I get what
I want, right? That is that really.

(01:13:33):
I got that twisted, and that's kind.
Of a manipulative, gaslighting way to go about recovery.
But I mean, it's not like the worst thing you can do, but it's
also like. Because then the shit hit the
fan and it was like next on the list have a baby, right?
And I have been pregnant before,you know, obviously, like I was
not, I lived very recklessly andI know I made the right

(01:13:57):
decisions then, but multiple times I had to have that done.
And you know, so I didn't think it would be a problem at all.
And it absolutely was. I have.
I had infertility issues big time.
We had to go through years of IVFI, can't even remember how
many rounds we did, but it was up and down, up and down.

(01:14:19):
That whole, like aside from the hormones, it's that whole like
just the unknown and the waiting, you know, is this going
to work this time? Is it not just like the roller
coaster? And that's when I really started
to use my recovery. Like, I do think that I did my
best up until then. But man, that so aside from the

(01:14:43):
fact that I'd always told myselfyou're a piece of shit, you
know, I was really, really good at beating myself up.
And I was always telling myself that I was broken and not good
enough and there was something wrong with me.
And that confirmed all those things.
Like you literally are broken. You cannot do the one thing that
a woman is made to do, right? So I felt, I felt horrible.

(01:15:07):
And I'm like, you know, David, I'm like this.
Like dude, I have four sisters. Like it hurts.
Yeah, it hurts. I could.
I mean, I could cry. Yeah.
You know, it's very, very deep, you know what I mean?
Absolutely. And it's like that it, it's not
helpful. I knew it wasn't helpful, but I

(01:15:28):
couldn't help thinking that. And I would also think you've,
you had your chance and you've ruined it.
You know, you had your chances before.
So like, Oh yeah, I'm so good atshaming myself.
And I really did like that was the, I was so mad at God.
I mean, I screamed at God. I wouldn't talk to God.
And why would I? I blamed God.

(01:15:49):
But it's like, you want to blamesomeone and I'm already blaming
myself. So who else is there?
You know, and like I would, I tried, I had, I didn't use.
So that's the good part. I but I mean like I really
fought through every day and then Covad happened and I'm
like, Oh my God, this is it, youknow, and we kind of said, OK,

(01:16:10):
let's try one more thing, we'll go to a different place.
So we went to Shady Grove and wewere able.
They told me like which? Sounds like a terrible place to
get a baby from. I know it's literally like the
number one place. Shady Grove.
Shady Grove Don't talk about it.The the what was that?
What was our band name? The, the, the, the wonderful
downfall. That's that's where I got my
baby. The wonderful.

(01:16:30):
The wonderful downfall. So go.
To the Alley. Talk to Doctor Boufier.
Yeah, he'll. Take care of you, Doctor
Boufier. Will take care of.
The baby up the baby. It won't.
Be in the butt hole, but he can maybe find the the entry somehow
find it so and the crazy thing is is that like when we went to
that. Do you know Yulia?
Yeah, of course. So they went we have the same

(01:16:51):
egg donor. Oh nice.
Like they went and she's OK withme talking about this.
Yeah, we need to have Yulia backon actually, because I
absolutely love. She, she's amazing, right?
And like she is, she was very, she's a freaking yeah.
She's very special. Julia, if you listen to this, I
absolutely love you. Every time.
Get your fucking husband on thispodcast.
I've been trying to get him for years man.
Logan, you know, they're just a little busy with having like a

(01:17:13):
baby A2 year old. I get it and you know, but I
found the time so. So did RJ.
So did we stop? I mean, I, I think we can relate
to the, you know, toddler Sir, you know.
But the the crazy thing was, is that like that was clear to me
that like, I've been so mad at God, but I could never have
orchestrated things happening the way that they did that

(01:17:34):
showed me like there had I had to be part of something bigger
than me. Yeah, because out of everyone in
the world, she was going throughthis the exact same time.
We had the same transfer date. We had the same due date.
Wow. We had, we were there the same
day she got transfer, her transfer right before I got my
transfer. We hugged each other in the
hallway before I went in. She got pregnant with a girl.

(01:17:56):
I got pregnant with a girl. You know, we had the same egg
donor. So it's just insane that like
out of all of the people, that'show that happened.
Yeah. And so now like you know, we've
talked about eventually them. Mystery Egg Donor 101 You are
also a gem. Yes, you're amazing.
You made my dreams come true. You know the egg donor's name?
I don't, they don't tell us her name.
That's fine. But she, you know, but she is an

(01:18:20):
Angel. And I know like, I can tell you
about her dental history and her, you know.
But I don't know her name. But she gave me like she made my
our dreams come true. And so that was like the most
beautiful thing. And I remember thinking like,
OK, our troubles are over, right?
Like that was my and thinking like, OK, this was the thing

(01:18:42):
that like, and I held on and I can help other women who have
infertility issues. And you know, then covic hit and
I got Covic and I got covic really, really bad.
I was 27 weeks pregnant and I stopped feeling her moving and I
had to, I had to go to the hospital.

(01:19:05):
And I remember them saying, oh, we're just going to admit you
and monitor you. And I'm thinking like, OK, the
food, the food sucks here and I'm really bored and there's
nothing to do. So like, look, just send me
home. You know, I thought everything
was fine. They don't really tell you
anything. And then on January 3rd, they
came in and said we've cleared out all the other C sections.

(01:19:28):
You need to have an emergency C-section right now. 97% do
survive. And I was like and all I
remember. Thinking what, 97%?
What survived? 97 of the babies do survive at
27 weeks. At Whoa.
Yeah. So.
So I I remember like and I this is COVID so I was isolated,

(01:19:54):
right? RJ is not even there. 27 weeks.
All by yourself. All by myself, very, very scary.
And I just remember thinking like.
Oh my God, my baby, you know, And it was really, really hard,
so. Hey, for this podcast we

(01:20:14):
actually have, we have. We have tissues this time,
sorry. No, because it was like, no,
like I'm finally, yeah, no, no, no, you know, I don't accept
this. But so.
And then everything happened really, really fast.
And I remember there was also a moment of, like, where I was
walking, they were Wheeling me down and there's like, these
reflective things, like on the ceiling.

(01:20:35):
And I was looking up. And I remember like, I started
rubbing my belly and I was like,this is the last time I'm going
to be pregnant. I wasn't ready yet.
Like I just felt so gypped. Jesus, you were in your second
trimester. Yeah.
Wow, I was so upset and like andbut everything that was
happening so fast, I couldn't even really like, I didn't even
really understand. And so then, you know, they gave

(01:20:57):
me the epidural and they she said like, she's going to be in
the NICU, right? But like, she's probably going
to be OK. So she was 2 lbs eight oz when
she was born. And they pulled her out and they
wish I couldn't even hold her. She was, she fit in my bra.
Like that's how I got my first skin to skin.
And they literally took her awayso fast.

(01:21:20):
They were talking about having to have her go to a different
hospital and I would be here. And so I was like, how are you
going to give my baby, put my baby somewhere else?
And I need her to be here with me.
And like I'm her mom, she's gonna need just all these things
going through my head. Finally, luckily, they were
cleaning out. I'm like trying to suck them
back. In they were trying to, they
were cleaning out a room at the same time as I was as they were

(01:21:45):
getting her. And so they took her up there
and they said beforehand, you know, just just as a side note,
we do have some blood on standbybecause COVID, your blood tends
not to clot correctly. And so there's a possibility
that we may need to give you blood transfusion, but you know,
they make everything seem like so, so I like thought everything

(01:22:07):
was fine. And then I remember feeling like
real light headed and woozy. And then, and I then I do not
remember anything. I remember like hearing numbers
being shouted out. I remember all these alarms
going off and people. I, I remember hearing the doctor
saying this isn't happening fastenough.
This isn't happening fast enough.
And I remember hearing RJ sniffling like next to me and I

(01:22:33):
was like, oh, there's RJ and I know like I don't remember, but
he does. And this poor guy had to be like
by himself with his wife is I, So I had to have massive blood
transfusion. He said.
She pulled back the covers and there was just like blood.

(01:22:53):
So they gave me like a like, I don't even know, you know, you
have like I think you have 3 liters or something in you and I
had lost like 2 1/2. So it was they, they said that
I, they thought I had passed away when they walked down there
because my heart rate shot up and my blood pressure like
tanked because my heart was trying to like hurry up and beat

(01:23:15):
more blood. And I and you know, so I
remember like coming in and out,in and out.
Apparently that happened all night long and but I pulled
through, you know, and then I when I woke up all I wanted was
my baby and I couldn't see her for the 1st 2:00.
Days like your first thought when you.
Came what happened to my baby, like immediately, like what

(01:23:38):
happened, you know, and so then I'm like really out of it
because like, I can't really remember, like what you know,
and I just remember. Yeah, I was here and now I'm
here. I'm.
Here and I'm here. It was like I time warped and I
didn't know where anybody was because I was by myself.
I looked like I got cut like from side to side because they

(01:24:01):
kept having to like take me backin and reopen and go in and
insert like try to patch it up. So what they opened me up like
another two or three times. So it was really kind of brutal.
They would have me on Dilaudid and I was getting that like
every hour. You had to be on that, Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I really did. And I think the crazy thing is,

(01:24:25):
though, I made a really miraculous quick recovery.
Like they were saying that I might be in there for a month,
you know, and I really like got on the mend super fast.
But I remember, well, I rememberthe so I was like, when can I
see my kid, you know? And the first time I saw her was
like the second day. I was still really out of it.

(01:24:46):
I was hooked up to all this stuff.
So they wheeled me up and I literally got to her room and I
just saw like this little thing in this, like Isolette, you
know, And I mean, I looked at her and I've never felt so much
guilt. Like I was just like, I'm so
sorry. Like that's all that I could
think was like, I'm so sorry. And like then they gave her to

(01:25:08):
me, which was like a big deal because they had to like she
was, you know, 2 lbs and she hadall these things and she was
intubated. But I got to hold her because
they said skin to skin is reallygood for her.
And I mean, I was just a mess, you know.
But I just sat there and like, Ijust sat there and, and I held
her and like, I remember saying like, like, we're going to,

(01:25:33):
we're going to get through this.Like we're going to do this.
This is not, you know, And then it was all just like, you know,
I, we couldn't see her together because it was Omicron.
So like when I left, I couldn't drive.
So my mom would pick me up and we would go to see her every
day. And it was just constant.
Some days she would do better, some days she didn't gain

(01:25:54):
weight. Then she needed a blood
transfusion. She needed three blood
transfusions all total. She had really bad GERD.
So like, what is it? GERD.
It's gastro esophageal reflux. Reflux.
So she kept having these bradycardias because she would
reflux and then she to protect her airway, she would stop

(01:26:15):
breathing. Yep.
Then her, my, my, my youngest, my youngest niece had that,
Yeah. And her heart rate would slow
down. And whenever her heart rate
slows down, all these alarms go off.
And then she would turn blue andthey would have to all those
nurses would run in and they would stimulate her and then it
would cause her to catch her breath and she'd wake back up.
And so like that was happening like 15 times a day.

(01:26:38):
You know, that kept happening and they couldn't figure out
why. And then like, and I remember
like advocating for her and being like, it's this, like, I
know it's this like she keeps onhaving these, like she can't
keep anything down. And then, you know, it was just,
I mean, I literally my days wereget up, go be there, be there

(01:26:59):
all day, pump, try to get, you know, the whole nursing thing
was not magical. The like, I couldn't be alone
with her. You know, I never got to like,
just be with my baby and how. Is nursing magical like how?
How is how is anyone like you know what I want this little
child to be like chopping down on their.

(01:27:20):
Tears. There are super producers out
there. There's super producers out
there. Thank God for that.
Great, they gave milk. Yes.
No, no, I know about those. Ladies, Yeah.
And if those ladies are listening, which I hope they're
not because I would make the Maddox, and I hope you're not
listening to this podcast, but if you are, you another pair of
angels. Thank you.
Very much they are the all of them at the NICU, they were
angels. I made them a shadow box that

(01:27:41):
said GBMC NICU angels because they just just knew exactly what
to say. When I would be like just
desperately crying. It was like another addict
talking to an addict. Like they would just hold my
hand and say like, because they knew, you know what I mean?
And they would just say like, you know, it's going to be, I
know this feels horrible and like you feel like you can't do

(01:28:02):
anything and like, but we're here with you and like just try
to get through the next hour andthen, you know, so like it was
such a roller coaster. And when they when she finally
really started getting better, she ended up staying past her
due date. And like it was just such a time

(01:28:23):
of I was angry. I was.
And like, that's when people really showed up in my life.
God put people in my life in order for before that happened.
And I can see that because I made a really solid group, like
my network had changed a really solid group of people because
that was one thing I always justhad RJ and I needed like my

(01:28:44):
people. And I needed like to be able, I
needed myself. Like, I needed to be able to
like just be OK with just me. And like, you know, a lot of
honestly, like that whole experience forced me to grow so
much. It forced me.
Like pain is a huge motivator. It forced me to just like re

(01:29:08):
evaluate everything, you know? Then she gets she gets sent home
on oxygen because she was still like having these Bradys, but
they were like she's she's like,OK, she could stay here for a
couple more weeks or we could send her home on oxygen and
pulse ox. So then like honestly, the hard
work was after like after she left the NICU, I had to stop
working. I had never not worked.

(01:29:29):
I had to basically become like anurse and figure out how to take
care of her. And I was home, isolated by
myself with this extremely needyhuman who was sick.
And I had no. And I know RJ work takes him

(01:29:50):
away. He was and he threw himself into
his work. He, he needed to focus on
something because he had PTSD. I mean, he was so traumatized
from that whole thing with it another way.
And that was another thing that really, you know, we were just
going through the motions and wereally had just become roommates
because we went through this awful thing together.

(01:30:11):
I felt like, Oh my God, we're we're here.
We lived. We had the best case scenario
and you're just working like we've worked so hard for this
family and like, now I'm beggingyou to love me.
And I felt like I was, I felt like I was asking him to love
me. Like I used to ask my dad to
love me, you know? And I felt like I was like, why

(01:30:32):
am I so unlovable, you know, Andthere's that negative self shit
again. But I felt that's really what
got me to be like, I can't do this.
And unfortunately, like, it tooksomething this big for us both
to, like, really look and evaluate things because he had
been coasting in his recovery for a long time.

(01:30:53):
He hadn't worked with a spot. I mean, he he knows all this
stuff. Yeah.
And he really needed to, like, find himself.
He had gotten lost. We both had gotten so lost.
Having a baby was a CrossFit. So true.
I'm. Sorry, I had to cut the tension.
Like. We had.
We. Had to bring bring bring back a
laugh. Get a little deeper over here.

(01:31:15):
Yeah. So I mean.
Thank you. CrossFit for helping my husband
find himself again, because it really has helped him.
And, you know, it helped. I needed to know that I could
take care of myself. Honestly, like I've never had
done that. I was like 4142 years old and
like, I just had this overwhelming need to like prove

(01:31:37):
that. Like I could live on my own.
You still pay, you still got it.I never had it, you know, I had
to. Find it, you know what I mean?
I had to. OK, I get it.
For the first time at 41, I. Had to get it for the.
First time but I did. I felt this like.
Crazy need to be like I could beOK like I just went through this
whole thing. I can be OK.

(01:31:57):
I have to find myself. I was so freaking lost.
And so like, I did do that and things lined up and like again,
God showed up in my life. Like I things fell into place
exactly at the right time and like IRJ found himself.
I was able to like prove to myself that I can like be an

(01:32:20):
adult, be a grown up. I never grew up, you know, and
with a little human and we always still had so much love.
It was just that like we had just gone through this like
awful thing. So we stayed apart for a year,
but we kept talking and like, you know, it's coming up on a
year now that we are back together.
Nice. Yeah, I moved out.

(01:32:44):
Where'd you? Go to.
To the same. Apartments that I.
Moved into when I left the the Hen House, Eagle's Walk, Eagle's
Walk apartments. Yes, $1600 a month for 832
square feet. It's crazy, right?
So but I did it and like it was fucking hard.

(01:33:05):
And you know, like, and I just kept praying for like my
feelings to come back for RJ andlike, for things to like I
wanted my family, you know, and so we've worked really hard.
We go to marriage counseling. Like she's amazing.
She only works with addicts thatare that need marriage
counseling. So she understands and you know,

(01:33:26):
like we're really getting to like communicate with each other
better. Like we were terrible at
communicating. I am a huge, I don't like
confrontation. I avoided at all costs and I
don't want to make ripples. Whereas he is can be very
critical. He's very regimented.
He's very like and so what's hissign?

(01:33:48):
His sign is. So his Is he a Taurus?
He's literally born on ChristmasDay.
He is. Jesus. 12:25 So what is that
Sagittarius or that's? Sagittarius.
OK. Yeah, Sagittarius, I know.
Nothing about them. It might be cuspy, but it's
Sagittarius. So.
He's. He is.
We're very. Opposite in a lot of ways, but

(01:34:08):
we kind of balance each other out, which helps and I think we
just, you know, he got Howard and Howard amazing and he really
connected. Wait, so he Howard response.
We literally just had him on thepodcast last.
Week Howard. Yes, I love Howard.
I love Howard. He's amazing.
Every time that. RJ would like common.
Apologize, I'd like. Yeah, he talked to Howard like,

(01:34:31):
yes. So shout out to Howard.
Thanks for coming on the podcastbuddy, He's amazing.
Thank God for him, really he. He was put in RJ, and I remember
RJ said I told him I wasn't going to be very needy.
And then this happened and I waslike Howard, man, like calling
him every day. So yeah, that's pretty much.
And now she's doing great. Oh yeah, she's thriving.

(01:34:53):
A little pee, a little pee. Now she's sassy.
As can be. I know and she's but she's like
so smart. She's got the best personality.
Like we're really trying hard tobe good parents and explain
things to her and like, you know, take be patient and take
the time and like no screen. You're not going to have a

(01:35:15):
phone, you're not going to no bewith us.
Play outside like, you know, she's our biggest achievement,
she's our miracle, you know, so like we but we also know how
important it is to take time outfor each other and that like we
really need to make our relationship a priority as well.
The hell was that? Open the door, those birds.

(01:35:37):
They're coming in, man. Fucking birds, I told.
You, I told you. Those fucking birds, God damn
it. OK, all right, all right, we.
Definitely. Have.
Questions for. You trip, trip, trip, God, I
feel. Like I talked.
Forever. I always do.
Trippy trip trip like I'm the. This is the best.
Podcast I've ever ever trippy trip trip.

(01:36:00):
I don't even know where to. Eric Trippy trip, Trippy trip.
Yeah, shut up. What do you got I?
Need to come on. OK, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna RJ. How old's RJ?
He's your age. He's like, I think I'm.
Eight years older than. Him OK, so that's.
What? I wanted to ask.
So you robbed the cradle? Pretty hard.
Did you like love it? That's your question.

(01:36:21):
That is my first. Question.
That was immediately. What I thought of too when you
start talking about all. That I was like.
Wait, how? It's RJ.
So, so you, you scooped in, you swooped in, robbed that cradle
and like, is this a trend or wasthis your first time robbing the
cradle? Like how, how?
No, I definitely fucking question.
I definitely I. Mean, I just asked, is it a

(01:36:41):
trend you know? Is it?
Something you know. Younger guys.
Younger guys, sure. Older.
Guys. Guys, I mean, OK.
I didn't really have, like, a, you know, does that make you a
cougar or what? Well, yeah, she's a cougar.
Though I'll take that. Yeah, Harry Cougar, I'll.
Take a cougar because you. You robbed.
I've been called way worse. Oh yeah.
You're like, yeah, because you're.

(01:37:02):
Eight years. He's older.
You're definitely. Like a cougar slash milk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and you know, because.
I'm so much older. I kept thinking like, he's not
going to be able to have a kid. I'm going to rob him of this
opportunity of having a baby, you know, like just there was
literally so many things that played into it that just like I
could mind my fuck, mind fuck myself with, you know?

(01:37:24):
Oh, you were geriatric too. I was considered geriatric.
Yeah, sorry, geriatric crazy. I always have to fuck with.
People and they sit and. They. #35.
Is considered geriatric? Yeah.
My wife's 40 my. Wife is still not considered a
geriatric. But let me tell you something.
Also that is amazing so. One of my best friends now, she

(01:37:44):
was my house manager in the hen house, right?
And you never know, like it's just crazy how God works because
I was terrified of this girl. She was real tough, Colleen.
She manipulate. She W Colleen.
Yes. Well, P now.
Oh, really? Yeah.
She I was so scared of her. I've seen her in years.

(01:38:05):
No, she's amazing. She's doing great.
She just had a baby and she, shehad, she struggled, right?
And so. I remember, like, I worked with
her. I was there for her.
She reached out. Yeah, she still works there.
Oh, nice. She reached out to me and I
remember being like, oh. My God.
I can now like This is why it I went through this, because now

(01:38:28):
this person who like I really was terrified of and I never
thought liked me. She's a badass, but it was all
up front, you know, like I know she's she is so sweet.
She put that up to. Survive.
She's a. Pitbull.
She will rip your throat out, but she will.
Offend you to the oh, she's so loyal and that's the thing, like
she. Does not just be friends with

(01:38:49):
anyone. Like she is very, you know,
she's like picks who she's goingto spend her time and energy on,
right. And so like, I feel so lucky and
blessed that like she reached out to me because she knew what
I went through and I was able tohelp her through her
miscarriage. I was able to help her through
so much. And now she just had a baby.

(01:39:10):
I mean, it's like, wow, you know, that was a beautiful thing
too, Because. And we also have the same
doctor, the Angel doctor that saved my life is her doctor and
that saved peace life. It's crazy, right?
Like that's the when I found that out, I, I busted out in
tears. I was like, Oh my God.
Unbelievable. Yeah.

(01:39:31):
But yeah, I'm a cougar. A cougar.
Wait, so Lindsay? Cougar who doesn't get Would
you? Prefer being called a cougar.
Or a MILF. That's my second question.
Oh man, I'll take either one. Either one.
What are some other terms I'm trying to think of?
Cougar milk. How about no?
Those are the only. Good ones.
Those are the good ones. The good ones.
How about you're done. What I'm taking that was a great

(01:39:52):
question on to my question, which was not a great.
Question you you have asked you.Eric, over the years you have
you have asked countless great questions.
That is not on the list. Are you a cougar naming MILF?
Mainly one of the. You ever boofed?
Anything. Yeah.
Great. Question.
That's a. Great question, I thought about
it way. Better question, Okay.
So. Only child.

(01:40:14):
So I have an only child and we're probably not going to have
a second one. You're probably going to have an
only child. You know how we feel about only
children. I I grew up because.
I have four sisters, so I. The exact opposite, right?
Grew up in a big family. I always wanted, not a big
family, but I wanted two. Yeah.
Just you know, brother, sister, have you know that connection?

(01:40:38):
What are the pros and cons of the only child life and are they
weird? Are they?
That's how I always thought I was like only children are
weird. I dated.
I dated an only child and I was like 1 only once.
And I was like, you're fucking weird.
Yeah, you're fucking so pros andcons of the only child life.
So OK. Pros.

(01:40:58):
They, I guess pros would be thatlike, we can be, we have a very
active imagination, you know, like I and I can.
Yes, I am. Oddly enough, though, I hated
being alone in active addiction because I did not want to have
to sit with myself and in my head.
And I felt incredibly uncomfortable in my skin.

(01:41:19):
But most only children do very well-being by themselves.
They can entertain themselves. Oh, I know.
Yeah. My son Magnus.
Yeah, and and. They.
You know, cons. Like obviously they can be
selfish. They're not.
She's not used to sharing. So like, we wanted to get her.
She does. She does so now.

(01:41:40):
She loves. Sharing.
Because of daycare, but I don't know if she loves it 'cause she
tolerates. Well, he's been in.
Daycare like for since the like very beginning.
Since like 90 days he was in. Wow.
OK, well, that's probably good for him, you know what I mean?
Because I was concerned that, you know, we always want our
kids not to have to go through pain that we went through.

(01:42:03):
And I was concerned I our plan was always to have more than
one. But after that, that was that
was a wrap. Yeah.
So you can always adopt or foster or any of those things.
Like those are always options. Too we we actually looked into a
lot of that stuff like during the.
Whole journey and it is hard, itis expensive and it is hard and
it takes a long. Fucking time, Jesus.

(01:42:26):
Extremely so. And then, well, egg.
Donors I. Had someone who paid off their
masters. Who's our Who's our guest here?
Well, I'm just saying like if you want to sell your.
Eggs like you. Know make some good money Oh
they do they totally do I thought one in action one thing
I thought that's. One thing my you know what my
you don't know sperm is worthful.
Nothing. I know I'm a.
Little resentful about that too.If they gave me a $2.00 bill for

(01:42:49):
my, they'd be overpaying. By a dollar, you know.
You know what it was worth to mylike ex, my friend's
ex-girlfriend. She paid off her Notre Dame
masters, what, with your sperm? With her egg?
Oh yeah, she slid an egg and paid for.
Her. 10 grand for she gets. A bunch of eggs are worth.
She got like 50. 40 or 50 eggs are worth something.
Well, because they have to take.They have to.
Take they have to take hormones.Uh huh.

(01:43:10):
It was actually stimulating themselves.
Yeah, this girl was a machine. Dude she made like 40.
Jeez one round. Just what?
Is she a salmon? Exactly what?
The. Exactly what are you, a salmon?
I'm sorry, what are are? You a fish?
Yeah, so. Only.
Child pros and cons so I I really do think.
That like. It depends on the situation.

(01:43:31):
You know, and maybe like, you don't know until everything's
said and done because I'm bummedout that like my son too, I'm
not going to have, you know, because.
I have. I have four sisters.
Yeah, you know, I. Can call my.
Sister and be like, hey, remember that time?
When Mom. Did this, but here's one thing
she will never have to know whether we loved.
Another child more than her. Oh, that's what's so great.
I'm the most loved. I'm the biggest piece of shit.

(01:43:54):
I'm the only dude. There you go.
And all my sisters know it. They were like, we know you were
the favorite. We know it.
And like my mom said it to, that's great to their face.
Like that's why. David is my favorite and I was
like fuck yeah. You're like, see, I told you all
those years. I told you.
Brett. Yeah.
I mean, I do think that's one. Thing is like people are, I

(01:44:15):
don't know if they will admit itor not, but like, I really do
think that when you have that many kids, you'll probably have
one that you tend to like. Oh yeah.
Favor. Yeah.
And so she will never in different in different aspects
for sure. Like, yeah, they're like.
Oh, if I'm actually going to like.
Talk to one that's and obviouslyone also personality and in

(01:44:35):
that. Case like one of them is done.
Than the rest. Like it it just has to be like,
they can't. Oh, they're all equally
intelligent, right? No, they're not, right.
No, one of them might be like a bore.
Yeah, like I know exactly she's.She's super smart, but she
can't. Play.
Sports at. All No social.
Yeah, she has no social. Yeah, exactly.
And so, yeah. And I like.
I see. That with my three nieces and

(01:44:56):
three nephews and like they're all, you know, varying different
talent, intelligence, some kids who are who are only children
and they're so. Glad that they were only
children or parents who are like, like, no, I'm glad I
didn't have to like, you know, and nowadays they're so
expensive I. Can't even.
Imagine. I mean we literally our.

(01:45:16):
NICU bill after that was $357,000.
Here you go. Glad you're feeling better.
God Bless America. Go home.
You know, so there was that and.We've probably spent.
A million on her? Yeah.
Wow. She's $1,000,000, baby.
Yeah. Whoa.
That's like. Whoa, dude.
And. And just over over for the years

(01:45:37):
just all. All the updates and everything I
see on Facebook, I'm just like heart, heart, heart, heart,
heart. I was like, can I get a bigger
heart? I get a bigger Zuckerberg,
bigger heart button. I need more, more of the love
and getting just because we likeall of us.
We've all had babies right around the same time and it's,
it's just, I know you guys, we've gotten so much support and
like. It is in the opposite though.
Like I don't post pictures, I don't, I don't I'm.

(01:45:58):
I don't always love. I'm sorry.
He does it for us and I was justFacebook.
Stalking. You, Lindsay, and I don't see
any. Pills of no child.
No, it's RJ. Here's The funny thing that
Facebook I don't. Even think I think the last
picture I put up was maybe when we got married.
Yeah. But like, I don't get on there
ever. No, In fact, I tell people I
don't have it and I'm looking for your child.

(01:46:20):
I'm like, where's your child? I can't.
You're such an. You're such an early 80s baby.
I do Instagram. Because somebody was like, yeah,
what do you mean on? Instagram like get with the 20th
century and I'll get on there just to like, you know, scroll
things and then they get me every time They're of course,
you know, you need this new facecream.
I'm like, I do need this new face cream.
Well, your daughter is adorable.Thank you.

(01:46:41):
She is. She is perfect you.
Know I mean she's beautiful her Big Blue eyes I mean I see them
like RJ, she looks like yes everyone.
Says like Oh my God, she looks like RJ.
But you know, there's a thing called epigenetics which they
talk to us about, which I think is like amazing that like gene

(01:47:04):
expression. So the the genes can actually
form, they can change and they can she has some things that are
me even though her so her DNA does not change.
Yes, but the expression of a gene express genetics is
actually super. Fascinating, because Even so,

(01:47:24):
even like very weird things thatwe do, like the way we cross our
arms. Yeah.
Is genetic. That's a genetic.
Yes, it is a genetic trait. Yep.
If you can roll your tongue, it's.
Genetic you can whistle or not. It's genetic and it's not like
I'm going to learn to whistle. It's like, no part.
Not everybody can. Your personality.
Yeah. So like.
Even though her DNA is. Not mine.

(01:47:45):
There are. She has a lot of my mannerisms.
She has a gap in her teeth like I do like we're coming, I'm
coming to you and you did carry.I did carry you know so but your
DNA does like get imprinted on her I'm sure in some.
Some sort of like, I've always been curious about that.
Your blood was her blood. Yeah.
Like, yeah. I mean, you know, I, I.
Struggle with that because. It's like she's not, but you

(01:48:07):
carried her. It's she's yours.
Yeah, like. You know I'm talking right to
that stupid voice in your. Brain right now.
You shut the. Fuck up.
I know you shut the fuck up, right?
Look, but that's us, right? Like we're never.
Satisfied. It's like, oh, of course you
know something's not right. I'm gonna 99.9% of this is.
A beautiful miracle but point 1%of it is not how I fucking

(01:48:28):
planned it with God and God wants to fuck with me in my
brain. Well, you and you and whoever,
like all the all the the donor moms out there and like you are
amazing and that is your fuckingbaby.
And don't let anybody ever tell you different.
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, so that's
something that. That's something that I didn't
see common and that I work on. You know what I mean?

(01:48:51):
Cuz I think, well, maybe sometimes it gets there's a bond
with her and RJ and I'm like, that's because that's her.
You know what I mean? It's, it's crazy.
But I do deal with that, you know?
So it's off. They're so fucked up.
There's this one comedian who's like.
Our brains. Are assholes because they have
all the good chemicals are in there the the the dopamine, the

(01:49:13):
serotonin, the norepinephrine the like all of those when you
take meds like me and they're sequestered in some.
Fucking corner. Of your fucking brain and it
says go for a walk then I'll give you some and it's like fuck
you give me the good to me now belong to give me the good shit
right I won't give you. Yeah, I get.
The same, right? No.

(01:49:33):
Nope. Yeah, you know, it's.
Interesting, because I've been like, you know, I.
Recently started a job like of my dreams and I've been reading
like about neuroplasticity, epigenetics.
Your wedding dress is dope by the way.
Thanks. It's my grandmother's.
It's. Fucking rad.
It was my. Grandmother's I was so thank.
You so much. That's really nice to say.
It's pretty cool. It was a way to make an amends

(01:49:55):
to my stepdad. Because she.
She her I always saw that and was like, this is so beautiful,
but she was so tiny. I thought there was no fucking
way. I never be able to wear it.
Yeah. And it worked.
So I'm like, it's a beautiful. Thank you.
Yeah. They they.
Kept it in. Really.
Good shape so and RJ's hair looks gorgeous.

(01:50:16):
Oh, he is the longest flowingest.
Locks, you know. I mean, he, he knows it too.
I thought of his staples. Yeah, yeah, if he had short.
Hair, he'd be he'd. I think he'd look weird.
He had to find his look. That's what he says.
Yeah, You know, didn't he used to have?
Short hair. He did have short hair.
He doesn't even look like the same.
Person it's. Crazy.
No. Well, yeah, When he came in, he

(01:50:38):
looked like Chunk from the Goonies.
He did. He had.
No beard, He looked like chunky goonies.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, RJ.
If you're still listening to this podcast.
You look like Chunk. You do.
If anybody ever made you do the Truffle Shuffle, they're
assholes. Like I'm looking at him standing
in front of the Batmobile from it looks.
Like one of the bat movies. And yeah, he looks, he looks

(01:50:59):
like he's from The Goonies. Right up.
All right, what do you what question you got here?
Let's get a good one. What was I going to ask you
again? I had, AI had.
A good question to follow up on,but but I talked to him, but I
talked so. Let's let's talk about the
affair with your. Boss no.

(01:51:20):
Oh God. Pick another question.
Why? No.
I'm. Vetoing.
That why? Why?
Why? Why?
Veto. Why?
Veto. Questions.
That's terrible. Well, it's a question that we,
you know, it was in poor. Taste.
Then let's let's see we already.Talked about robbing the.
Cradle, I'll share a little bit scandal, so I'll share a little

(01:51:40):
bit about my. Like.
Experience with my daughter too and then ask the birth question.
There we go. So my wife had a very difficult
pregnancy as. Well, our.
Daughter had the cord wrapped around her neck three times and
my wife's cervix like wouldn't open up fully.
So she was like in labor for like 20-3 hours trying to and

(01:52:01):
they were like push, push and like luckily her cervix didn't
open up or else our daughter would have like, you know, had
the cord around her neck. So we had to do an emergency
C-section as well. Things like went wrong during
the C-section. And I remember the doctor like
turning to me and being like, don't worry, we'll save the baby
first. And just being like, whoa, what
the fuck, where are we now? Wow.

(01:52:23):
So. Like hey can.
I have a say in this. I was like, wait a second.
What? I mean what and actually?
No, you don't. I'm like my body.
You don't stare. In it, you know, and I was
staring at her like stomach lining.
Essentially at that point and being like, 'cause I was seeing
all the insides on the outsides is.
A hell of a RJ would. RJ loved it.
I'm. How like you don't have to look.

(01:52:44):
He's like, Oh yes. I do so I so I've I have if you
listen to my episode. That comes out soon.
You'll hear that I have had a lot of experience with
hospitals. And so I, I actually had to go
through the whole, like, recovery process with my wife
because it got infected. So she actually had to have an
open wound recovery. So I had to clean out her wound

(01:53:05):
every day and then put new gallsin and pack it and clean it.
She used to become like a nurse,too.
I had to become a nurse for her.Yeah, so.
That, but luckily for me. Like, I had open wounds during
my surgery, so I know how to clean them and do all that.
Yeah. So like, how was that recovery
process? Like, 'cause I mean, you talked
about the recovery process for your daughter, but I mean, you

(01:53:26):
had fucking serious surgery. Like, you know, what's the, what
was the recovery process for you?
Like man, I mean, it was intense.
Like I do remember. The first couple days just not
even really being able to like form a sentence and they like
wanted me to talk about insurance and stuff and I was
like, I'm like, I don't even know what my.

(01:53:49):
Name is right now. But I do remember, like, you
know, I was terrified of gettinga habit again because I knew I
was going to be in there for a while.
You know, like our brains don't know the difference and like I
have had to go into, I've had multiple surgeries clean because
of the endometriosis and all theissues that I've had there.

(01:54:11):
And it is very scary knowing that you have to take pain meds
because you have to take them. But like it's just going to
suck. And like I know now like what
the day is going to come where Ihave to stop.
It's going to suck. With this one, I was so I was so
distracted with Michaela that I think, you know, I didn't even

(01:54:33):
care about. I was just like full 100% just
get me to the NICU. They were like the nurses were
like you need to go take a shower, like you need to go
home. And I'm like, I can't leave.
So it was just like, but for fora little while in the very
beginning, I do remember becauseI ended up being they, they had

(01:54:54):
me on that in the hospital and then they sent me home with like
perc fives or something, which were green by the way.
I was like, when did they turn green?
But yeah, it was weird. But I definitely would get out
of the game too long. I know, right?
I I'm like this is not. What I remember when?
These were blue, right? And like.

(01:55:15):
They, I did kind of like have a little bit of withdrawal, but I
remember like they kept on telling me that like they, I
wanted Flexeril. I was like, just give me some
Flexeril to help me like with the muscles and stuff.
And they were like, that's not how we treat this.
We treat it with, you know, narcotics.

(01:55:36):
So like we'll give you another prescription of Percocet, but
we're not going to give. So they called in another
prescription without I didn't even need that because I had a
full one. Yeah.
And I remember like we when whenI stopped, like I remember RJ
was like, you have to, we have to go to the pharmacy and tell
them like you can't, you don't need this.

(01:55:56):
And like as you know, this is just it's so mental.
Like as we were going to it so much yes.
So like, we don't have to. Like yes.
That could happen. Why did some?
Extra we could sell. We could sell this shit.
I. Literally I.
Know and I'm like. So we walked.
I'm sure you guys actually like joked about it, like in the car,
like we could sell this. Bed like and I was quiet but

(01:56:19):
serious silence. I know right?
Like. Yeah.
So basically we got. Into the to the grocery.
Store and we're like walking along and he like as we were
getting closer I was getting more and more quiet and you're
like he's like he's going like what should we get?
What kind of dressing should we get for, you know, mom's dinner

(01:56:41):
or salad tomorrow night or whatever?
And I finally went, I can't think about dressing at a time
like this. And he was like, whoa, he goes,
listen. This is fear.
Based. Right.
And he had to like, hit me with some shit.
And then we went up to her and Isaid I I don't need this.
And she goes, wait, wait, wait. What?
You don't need this. You actually just screamed it
out. I don't need this.

(01:57:02):
Yeah. That's basically what?
And then she. Said you don't need this.
Wait, you're talking? About this prescription here,
you don't want this. And I had to repeat myself, you
know? And then finally it was like,
OK, I'm done at RJ. Walk as we walk.
When he goes, I'm proud of you. I said shut up, Shut the fuck
up. Shut the fuck up RJ, you stupid
beard. And then it was hair with your

(01:57:22):
hair and your. CrossFit.
Shut up, you know, because this is a pre workout, you bitch.
Yeah, yeah, go take some supplements, all right.
All right, I'm going to go. Back to.
When you were a kid, So this wassomething that like was a parent

(01:57:42):
like that went through my mind as a kid is I thought now and
like all all of my like acting out and symptoms and everything
like that, Like I'm listening tofucking Slipknot and shit and
I'm like, why? Like how does?
How is nobody picking up on thislike?
Like I. Was like kind of like suddenly
like, hey, red flags, anybody seeing I'm waiting red flags and

(01:58:08):
and my brain. I was just like, where are the
adults? Did you ever like have that
feeling of. Like.
When like, 'cause you're cuttingyourself, like you're, you're
going through a whole bunch of shit and it's just like it.
Cause at one point, 'cause it got to a point in my life where
I was just like, they don't givea fuck if they don't give a
fuck. I'm not going to give a fuck.

(01:58:29):
And it just, and it went on fromthere.
So like, was there ever like a moment of like, where are the
adults? Where are my parents?
Where are my advocates? Yeah, so I do remember.
I mean, I was obviously. Like, extremely sad and angry
with my dad. Mm hmm.
Yeah, it's like my dad laughed and yeah, he was an abusive
piece of shit. Yeah, totally.

(01:58:50):
Right and and I, I do. I fully believe that, you know,
the things that we don't remember from ages one to three,
like the things that happened tous, then we do remember them.
It we just can't recall them. It's like an emotional imprint.
Yeah. And things that we can't recall,
like an inside out moment with the recall tube.
Oh my gosh. Yes, and like my dad did.

(01:59:13):
Some horrible shit to me when I was a baby, you know what I
mean? And so like, I think that that
almost like core sense of I'm shit, that's when that that's
where that came from. And like, that's so hard to get
rid of when that's like such a part of who you are.
And so I do remember thinking like that there was just no hope

(01:59:34):
for me. Like not my mom was always
there. She just was very naive, but she
would be like, she sent me to Shepard Pratt multiple times.
I'm like, it's my alma mater. I loved it.
Can I have my old room, please? Thank you.
You know, like, that was my first day at Shepard Pratt.
And, you know, while I was there, you're, like, talking to

(01:59:57):
the newbies with a cigarette, Like, yeah, yeah, I remember
that. Let me show you the ropes.
Guys, Yeah, yeah, OK, that room is garbage.
Yeah, there's. No pool on the roof, just so you
know. Don't don't believe the lie.
Like, you know, just crazy. I do remember, like thinking
that I was just like a lost cause, you know what I mean?
And like, yeah, I was just like,this is who I am.

(02:00:18):
Yes. And I remember always.
And I just remember thinking like.
There is always something wrong with me.
I'm always falling apart and being like my poor mom.
Like why can't I just get it together for her?
I was always just trying to like, get it together for her.
Like when I couldn't eat, they'dbe like, you're killing your
mother, you know, And I had to go to a nutritionist and all

(02:00:39):
this shit. And she'd be like, please, just
eat this piece of pizza. And I would stare at it and I
would not be able, you know, it's like the same thing as
drugs, the opposite of drugs. Yeah.
Instead of not being able to eat, I.
Couldn't stop myself. Yes, it's great.
It's like there was just that somehow, like.
I could not bring myself to do that as much as I wanted to for

(02:01:01):
my mom. It wasn't until I was like, I'm
going to eat then, you know whatI mean?
So it's it's been just like thatwith me in so many ways for so
long. I truly accepted that I was
never going to get clean. You know, once I and The thing
is, is I don't remember ever being like, Oh my God, this is

(02:01:22):
like I took it and this you knowhow people say the clouds parted
it. This is what's been missing and
did it. And the angels are trumping.
Out of your ass. Yeah, it was not boofing.
All that, all that thing, everything.
There's no. Reverse finally came out.
No reverse. The reverse boof?
Never. Happened.
Oh man, Archie's gonna be. Like so would you talk about

(02:01:43):
boofing a lot of. Boofing a lot of boof talk like.
He loves boofing, of course he. Does.
He ate a Clonidine. Patch like a psychopath.
Oh yes, I remember. Yeah, not clonic.
Three of them on a Yeah, I like.Three of them I I remember
laughing at. Who?
Throws a. Shoe because he thought he was
thinking it was fentanyl. No, he was.

(02:02:03):
No, he thought it was. Kalana Pin But he thought, yeah,
but it was. Kalana Dean, But he was fucking
but. He was thinking.
Of it like fentanyl. I think he thought that if he
ate it that it would hit him allat once.
And give him some kind of feeling like, but he dude, he
had to, he had to reverse boot. He had to boot that.
Out how did you poop? RJ, we're gonna need, we're

(02:02:23):
gonna declare. How did you poop out multiple
patches? How did this happen or are they
still in there? Did you are they still just
stuck her and like if we get an X-ray or just that's where those
are. They took a wrong turn in
Albuquerque. Oh my God, yeah, I but I do
remember. Just like I'm never going to get

(02:02:45):
this and that. Like when I started taking
drugs, I just sort of fell into it.
It wasn't like it was like everyone's doing it.
I want to be accepted. I always, I care way too much
about what other people thought about me because I hated myself.
So I always needed validation. I wanted to feel like I
belonged. I wanted to feel like a part of
everything that I finally found in NA, you know, that I was

(02:03:09):
looking for, you know, I finallyfound in NA and I was looking
for throughout throughout my whole life in the wrong places.
And it's so funny because like, you know, I always have to do
everything the hard way and learn everything the hard way.
But like, I would have, I had noproblem, like going downtown on

(02:03:31):
Fulton, you know, And so really direct to traffic, dude, getting
some shit. No problem.
If you dumped it, lower a bucketdown, put $5 in it, then
somebody's going take it, fill it with something.
And I'm gonna yeah, that's one of the biggest things I try to
like. Hit into the heads of of like
young people or like new people recover.
When you're on the street, somebody literally hands you

(02:03:53):
something and suggests that you take it and you take and you
take, no question. Then you come into these fucking
rooms and people like, hey, let me suggest, whoa, whoa, hey, let
me ask some fucking questions about this.
I'm like, who the fuck do you think you are?
And it's so funny. Do you ask questions about the
people that are trying? To help you.
Right, right. You don't get to.
Decide how you get your help. Yep, you know what I mean.

(02:04:14):
So and like I work in treatment now and some of the stuff that
these guys like literally the the other day somebody said
like, oh, well, I was a cheater.And the guy, the guy goes, yeah,
well, you had a disease. You don't get to blame the
disease only when it's convenient.
Yeah, exactly. Like you had a disease.
Yes. Now, if you have to, you have to
take on the whole scope of it. Yes, exactly so.

(02:04:38):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
All right. Last question, Eric.
No, no, I think, I think that. Was it all right I want?
To ask one. More thing.
So, you know, you kind of had the thought of, you know,
sticking with the things outsideof ourselves, fixing ourselves,
you know, baby pee, you know, little like a lot of those

(02:05:00):
things, 'cause I had like the same thing as well.
They, you know, like when you have a kid, things are like
these are going to be the puzzlepieces that fall in place and
everything's going to be perfectand hunky Dory from here on out.
And, you know, like he's three years old and we're finally
getting him to talk. Like he's been speech delayed
and we've had, you know, audiologists and speech speech

(02:05:24):
therapists and occupational therapist and, you know, now
he's waving and saying bye when we leave the and like, and this
has just happened this week. Wow, this week.
And any like, do they say why no?
OK, no and like. He and like he, we, we got him.
Tested for like the. Spectrum and they're like, no,
they're like no. They're like he'll do it when
he's ready. They're like he has a couple

(02:05:45):
markers but no. And you?
Know there's a couple other likeNathan C, like his son is a
couple months older than mine. He's talking like he's been
talking, but his oldest, you know, but anyway, so we think
these things are going to like fix ourselves.
So they're like, how is it when you know the the miracle baby,

(02:06:05):
which is still an amazing miracle, you know, isn't like
what you thought it was? Yeah, that was a low blow.
You know, because my God, what the fuck I was because I
remember being like, how can I be so wrong?
Like I thought. You could not tell me that this

(02:06:27):
baby was not going to be the greatest drug of all.
Yes, it was going to just fix. Every single thing that was
wrong with. Me and I mean like I would not
accept not having a baby. I mean, that was my obsession,
right? That was my addiction at that
time to getting pregnant. And I, you know, so like I
really went through a lot, but Ithink I did like lose focus,

(02:06:48):
obviously. And that I, it wasn't just
another way of me being like, I want what I want when I want it.
And it was a clear way for me towow.
It's not, it's so not about the drugs.
It's so is about me and like me trying to take something
external to fix what's internal.And I've always been like that
just gotta do this. I just gotta get this.

(02:07:08):
I just gotta make this person happy and did it.
And I think that and I still do it to this day.
Now it's like if I can just helpthis person at work.
A lot of my validation comes from work now, Eric, but I'm
like, at least it could at. Least it's coming.
From a good place, but. I have to be.
Careful and not be a workaholic and now and ignore the family.

(02:07:32):
I've worked so hard to me. So I do think that like when I
realized that it was like, Oh myGod, people, a people were
telling me like, be careful. But again, we can't, we can't
learn anything. And I can't take anybody's word
for it. I got to go through it myself.
It has to be my hard won experience, right?

(02:07:52):
And so aside from the fact of like people were telling me like
I didn't want to hear it. And then the only way that I
could have heard it is when it didn't work.
And then it's like, Oh my God, not only is it the only, the
only way we know that the rattlesnake is there is when it
bites us. Yes, and then I and then my
marriage falls apart. And then I have to like move out

(02:08:13):
and then, you know, all these things.
And it's like, wow. And I, I still think like, did
this happen because I forced this?
Was this my will? And I sit there and think about
that a lot. Like, did all of this happen
because I could not just surrender and like, you know,
but I don't think God works likethat.

(02:08:34):
I don't think that he wants me to go through so much pain and
wants Michaela to go through pain.
So like I kind of tap out at like, you know, this is where
I'm at today. You know what I mean?
And like, thank God that like this is where I'm at today and
I've been willing to put the work in.
That's one thing I'll give myself credit for is like, I

(02:08:55):
will fucking dig. I will write things.
I will do step work. I'm like, I'm on my 4th step
again. I'm like, I will research, I
will read. I love Gabor, mate.
He's like my hero. I listen to his stuff.
I read his books. I agree with what he says.
I think that, you know, so much of the pressure that we put on

(02:09:16):
ourselves is because of trauma and then society on top of it
and generations of just shit layering expectations on
ourselves that come from. Nowhere and arbitrary we can you
we get to. Say how you get to kill
yourself. You can kill yourself with
alcohol, but you can't kill yourself with heroin.

(02:09:37):
Just, you know, alcohol's worse,but like, you know what I mean?
And it just doesn't make sense. And and you know, we're gonna
shame you and we're gonna basically we're we're shaming
and separating the people who are traumatized, right?
It's like a jail's full of a bunch of traumatized kids that
never got over this shit. And you know, you know, fixing

(02:09:57):
addiction is is not. With an institution or a jail or
or a maintenance drug or any of that, I've tried it all right,
it, it, it, it's fixing homes, it, it's.
Fixing relationships. It's fixing communication, it's
fixing, you know, it's fixing jobs and affordability like it
yeah, it's fixing, it's fixing the fucking system yes and the

(02:10:18):
system is so broken, fucking broken no one like.
No wonder there's so many fucking addicts there's.
It's just getting worse and worse.
Exactly. Yeah.
And I what do you like? I I.
It's. Just a fucking.
Mystery. What do you expect us to do?
Like what do you expect to exactly like?
Like when you know you're? These fathers.
Are you know, they're even if they're doing the right thing

(02:10:40):
and they're they're out of the house for 14 hours a day,
working double S to try and provide, but they but they can't
be there for their son. So when it well like right And
then son feels and it doesn't matter how much they love, it's
the message. That the kid receives.
Yeah. And guess what?
We're so stressed the fuck out in this society.
How can the kid not take that one?

(02:11:00):
And it's like, and it's a miracle that like we clean.
Are getting through it right. I know.
I think it's just, you know, it's a coping mechanism.
You know what I mean? It's like we got to figure out
how to get through this pain andhow to get relief.
And like that works. And those systems in our brain
that are developing, you know, our brains develop after we're

(02:11:21):
born mostly. Oh, yeah.
And so like we're not get, we'renot set up in the right
environment. I think that addiction is an
adaptation to the environment and you're brought up in a
shitty environment that's a stressed out world and that
works. And that's what it is.
That's why it keeps getting worse.

(02:11:42):
You know what I mean? I could go on and on and on
about that. That's like my passion right
now. And I tell all my patients,
first of all, we're totally going to have you back on the
podcast, so be prepared. For that, good.
Okay, we're going to this. No, no.
We don't, and there's actually been a couple.
Podcasts where we recorded it and we're like, we're dumping

(02:12:02):
them. That's no way.
And that makes sense. We'll get into.
That, yeah. Lindsay, thank.
You. Thank you for joining us.
Today. Yeah.
Something to see you again, yeah. 11.
Quick minute talk to anybody outthere struggling needs.
To hear a message of hope. What do you say directly to
that? Oh God, just hang on, you know,

(02:12:23):
I mean like. It there is a solution, you know
what I mean? All of this stuff like just give
yourself a chance. You know this stuff is free.
The only I love my favorite saying the suggestions are free.
The only ones you pay for are the ones you don't take.
Such a good one. All right, everybody.

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Linsey M. - I Let My Degree Dissolve Under My Tounge

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Linsey M. - I Let My Degree Dissolve Under My Tounge