Step Working Guide - Step 1 - Part 1

In this episode, David O., Carly S., and Eric V. share their experience, strength, and hope.

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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome back to Podcaster Cover everyone, We are your host,
David O. Carly S.
And Eric B. He stresses the and so hard.
It's very weird. I stopped saying the end because
I need to let him do it, yeah. That's good.
And, you know, I accentuate it, you know?

(00:23):
Okay, anyway we are starting a brand new.
This will be a long running series where we are going to go.
It'll be primarily be the three of us, but I think occasionally
we'll bring in other people for,you know, little guest stints
along the way. But we are going to highlight
and go through not 100% of it, but the NA Step working Guide.

(00:46):
And if anybody you know, listening is familiar with the
12 step process, that's what we're going to get started with.
And like, you know, specificallythe NA 12 steps and yeah,
there's a wonderful book writtenby NA World Services many years
ago. And yeah, we're going to get.
Or, or as they would say, written for addicts by addicts.

(01:09):
Yeah, so actually, I'm, I was going to read right here at the
the end of the preface. It says, like every piece of any
literature, this was written by addicts for for addicts.
We hope that every member who uses this book will be
encouraged and inspired. We are grateful to have been
given this opportunity and thankyou for allowing us to be of
service. All right.
And everybody, who do you want to read what Step 1 is?

(01:32):
Sure. Step one is we admitted that we
were powerless over our addiction, that our lives have
become unmanageable. Fantastic.
And I, I skimmed this first partjust a little bit.
So I want to read just a couple things.
So a first of anything is a beginning.
So this is with so so it is withthe steps.

(01:54):
The first step is the beginning of the recovery process.
The healing starts here. And we can't go any further
until we've worked this step. And then I wasn't going to read
all that shit. And then the first little blurb
is called. That's too much.
We can't well. I.
I do I here I I actually have something highlighted from this
section. OK, a few a few different things
highlighted. Yeah, what do you got?

(02:14):
So let's let's see what my my old self thought of this.
So from second the second workaround because my first.
Workaround. Yeah, you highlighted in
different colors. Yes.
And then I underlined second workaround.
Our reasons for formerly workingstep one will vary from member
to member. I think that's very true.

(02:36):
Second paragraph. Oh, yeah, I see.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
Then in the fourth paragraph, our hope is to internalize the
principle of Step 1, to deepen our surrender, and to make the
principles of acceptance, humility, willingness, honesty,
and open mindedness as fundamental part of who we are.
So I think that's that. That those are at.
Yeah, those are our actual assets to gain from working the

(02:57):
step. Absolutely.
We first must always come to thepoint of surrender or else none
of this shit will work. Yeah, yeah.
And you know, I'll, I'll read the last, the last sentence.
If we've been clean a while and our first step is about our
powerlessness over some other behavior that's made our lives
unmanageable, we need to find a way to stop the behavior so that
our surrender isn't clouded by continued acting out.

(03:21):
Yeah. And I'll read that.
All right. Or do you want to read The
Disease of? Addiction I would like to read.
OK, read the disease of Addiction and then we'll get to
our first. Question and just just so you
know, Eric here crossed out disease and put illness, you can
do that too. I mean, yeah, sure if.
You want to get into the semantics.
I'm I'm not getting into the craziness.

(03:42):
If you want to get into the semantics of the difference
between what a disease. Go ahead, Carly, please.
Read Go ahead. OK, never mind, Eric.
The disease or illness of addiction.
What makes us addicts is the disease of addiction.
Not the drugs, not our behavior,but our disease.
There's something within us thatmakes us unable to control our

(04:05):
use of drugs. This same something also makes
us prone to obsession and compulsion in other areas of our
lives. How can we tell when our disease
is active? When we become trapped in
obsessive, compulsive, self-centered routines, endless
loops that lead nowhere but to physical, mental, spiritual and
emotional decay. I mean, yeah.

(04:25):
And then our first question. What does the disease of
addiction mean to me? Yeah, yeah, I you were like, I
don't even fucking know. It's.
Been. So long since I've looked at
this. Yeah, the disease of addiction,
there's very few wrong answers and there's a shit ton of right
answers. I, I think it's just the, the

(04:51):
best way I've heard it describedis by like my grand sponsor who
says it's, it's a disease that is all about more and now and it
doesn't. Like, yes, NA is focused on, you
know, narcotics, But when you, when you broaden your horizons a
little bit through recovery, yourealize it's about it.
It's about more. And now and whatever it is, you

(05:12):
know, it's, it's sex, it's gambling, it's spending it, it
can be video games, it can be sleep, it can be food, it can be
a lot of things. I like.
My brain just has some crossed wire in there that doesn't know
when enough is enough. And I constantly want more of

(05:33):
what makes me feel good. And for yeah, for a long time it
was based in, you know, running away from, you know, past
traumas and past feelings. But like, you know, through step
work and clean time, a lot of that has been healed.
But still, you like, if I'm having a shitty day, I'll, you
know, act out in some other way.I'm like, I don't know.

(05:56):
And it's, it's just about makingmyself feel good for as long as
possible because, you know, I, we don't like shitty emotions in
any way We can avoid them. We will.
What about you, Eric? What's the disease of addiction
mean to you? I just had a really good answer
and then I blanked on it. Let me think about fuck the

(06:20):
disease of addiction. What it means to me is fuck
what? I had a really good answer.
Wait, Carly, you go and let me think about this again.
I don't know much if I have an answer, but I was listening,
David, when I was listening to you talk, you said that like
your brain doesn't know when enough is enough.

(06:41):
I would say I think my brain knows when enough is enough, but
I just don't give a fuck. Yeah.
Like that's true. There's like, I know that I
shouldn't have more of whatever it is, but that obsession over
whatever it is at that time, it's like, yeah, fuck it, why
not 'cause I I think feeding that obsession is going to make

(07:04):
it stop, but it doesn't, no. And that's, I think part of it,
like. One of the best, like the best,
like little blurbs I've ever heard about addiction is calling
it the hungry Ghost. And I'm like, Oh my God, like
that is, it's such, I don't know.
That's just a very visual, palpable explanation for it.

(07:26):
Like I become fixated on something and.
And even when I get it, I thought, and it's like, cool, I
got it right, give me more of it.
Yeah, I'm like, I was so excitedand fixated and like, needed it.
And now I'm like what? Why?
And. Nine times out of 10, it's
disappointing. Yeah, it's disappointing.
You're like, I really want thesefucking shoes.
I really want these fucking shoes.
Then you get the shoes and they're like, yeah, there

(07:46):
aren't. Yeah, you.
Know, and I feel bad about myself too afterwards.
You feel bad? Exactly.
I just got some dope shoes and Ifeel great about it.
I I feel fucking awesome and like.
I also did just get some shoes that I'm very excited about.
Yeah, interesting. Second question, has my DS been
active? Recently, Eric, wait, wait,
wait. So First off, I'm going to
answer my first question, Yes. So what does the illness of

(08:09):
addiction mean to me? So essentially what it means to
me is an absence of connection in lieu of choosing inanimate
objects to impose a sense of a desired feeling.
Yeah, it's it's. It's filling in people, places
and things. It's a lack of connection at the

(08:31):
end of the day. I think that that's.
The emptiness inside you. Yeah, that's more of like
addiction than the I, I don't know, I, I feel like connection
is so important. Like I think it's more I think,
I think losing connection is actually.
Can I be honest more? Than like of an issue than doing
the drugs like it's. A little ironic hearing this
from you. It's funny, you know, I I

(08:54):
probably see and talk to more people than you do in a week,
but I I OK you. Didn't have to take it.
Just because you interact with people doesn't mean you connect
with people. Hey, I do connect with people,
Carly, OK, I I do connect with people, but you know, you know.
You can understand my my you know.

(09:16):
Ever. Ever.
Since Chicago, right when I wentto Chicago.
That's true. You were.
You were more of a lighthouse keeper before.
And I went to Chicago and like I, I relapsed in Chicago, but I
wasn't like at the same place where I was because of the
connection and the people I was.That was your into the wild
moment. Kind of, yeah.

(09:38):
I was like, oh, there's a girl I'm going to follow.
Oh, she broke up with me. Yeah, see, you're an idiot.
Yeah, just like I said, don't. Yeah, you know, doesn't matter.
You like it. Oh yeah, people.
People are a terrible drug. Like oh dude, for and vice versa
men are, I mean, just people, no.

(09:59):
Women can be obsessive, too. Women can like, Oh yeah, both
sides. Can be obsessive.
So I like of the three of us, I feel the least obsessive about
people I think would be Carly. Like I don't think.
And what do you mean? Correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know if like you were like, ever like really obsessed
with a guy. Like it doesn't seem like I
really want that guy. Short term.

(10:20):
Short term, yeah. Because I would make it a goal
be like, I really want to have sex with that guy.
She. Mentioned that a few.
Yeah, I did. Yeah.
And like, I'd make it a goal, and then I'd hit that goal and
be like, all right, see you later.
Hit that goal. I hit.
That goal? A man eater?
All right? Has my disease been active

(10:40):
recently? I mean Carly and I both just got
new tattoos, which is just a constant addiction.
Eric does not does not know the the feeling of ink in skin, but
well, I I scratching that dude scratching the.
Feeling of needles in skin, doesthat count?
Jesus, shut up. Now scratching, scratching the

(11:05):
tattoo itch is just an cause. Again, tell me you don't want
more. I'm OK right now.
I'm not, I'm not because it, dude, this is my first tattoo
I've had in three years. Well.
That's The thing is like I you. Got one recently.
Well, they were tiny and. Tiny tattoos suck.
Even this I was like it's 1/2 hour.

(11:26):
I like that. I like like Paris Jackson's
tattoos and stuff like that. Like the tiny tattoos.
I think they're kind of, I don'tknow, they're or Hilary Duff's
tattoos. They're all like super tiny.
Miley Cyrus is tattoo yes she's she's so many fucking yeah and I
like the tiny tattoos, but it didn't like no fill that that I

(11:48):
needed, which is why I needed ityesterday you.
Got a line and you wanted a bag?Yeah.
But I also that. Could be the underlining thing
of this this episode. You got a line, but you wanted a
bag. And The thing is, yesterday it
was like I justified it while wewere there.
Like I got my like tax refund. And.
Today I feel so guilty for spending that money I.

(12:10):
Know, but I have like I am the worst friend.
I will. I was like $400.00.
I was like, you can't. I was like you're not you're not
taking it with you to the grave.Fucking spend it.
He also was going to pay for my tattoo if I got What was it that
you were going to say? I'll pay you.
I'll pay for you to get. This was it, I think.
Was it the Dick Weasel? No, you wanted me.

(12:31):
You said you would get that. I would.
Get the Dick for it. I would get the Dick weasel.
I I think your tattoo is really.Oh my God, Eric, I I what did?
He say I. Think your tattoo is good,
Carly? Thank you.
Oh, it's. Fantastic.
It's a funny, weird, I love it, I know.
And it kind of works for you too, like.
I've been called Eeyore since I've been in high school.
Like, you know, demeanors sometimes, dude.

(12:53):
We've we've gone into this, they're like everybody is
somebody from the 100 Acre Woodsperiod.
MMI. Oh you're you're you're a mix
between Eeyore and Owl. Yeah, I like that. 100% you sit
in your tree, you read fucking books.
But like also you know, like cuzEeyore's saying is like he's
kind of melancholy but he still wants to be included.

(13:15):
And they include him. And they do.
They never leave him behind. They're like, oh, where the fuck
is Eeyore? And they like, they show up and
it's in like the one, the one thing that's tragic and kind of
like annoys me about Igor Eeyoreis OK.
Yeah, it's well, it's the same problem over and over again.
It's like, oh, what's wrong today?
It's like, God damn it, you idiot, sew it on.

(13:37):
I'll just use a nail, you fucking idiot Jackass.
I just use attack every. Yeah, me, I'm I'm very much a
Tigger. Yeah, I'm 100% a Tigger are.
You. You're not a rabbit, no.
Rabbit. Rabbit is very festivious and
like festivious. Yeah, maybe a good word.
He he's all he's goal oriented. He's like, I'm growing my

(13:58):
fucking carrots, get the fuck out of my garden, This is what
I'm doing. Like he's just a busy bee.
Is there? A little bit of rabbit in me
then. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I'm not saying everybody is one nest 1 character.
A lot of people are like an amalgam of of like two or three.
But I'm I'm not a poo. I've I've met some poos.
Weird. Poo.

(14:19):
Would Brad be a poo? Brad's a poo 100%.
Brad's a Who's a? Roo Roo's kind of weird.
Roo, I don't, I don't know how much like, I don't know, like a
helicopter mom. Anyway, we could.
We, we're in. We're we're digressing.
Yeah, OK, but was Roo the mom? I thought Roo was the baby.
I thought Roo was the baby too. Oh.
Yeah, it's Kanga and Roo. Yeah, yeah, Kanga's the mom.

(14:41):
Roo's the baby. I don't.
Know I'd have to look into that.But are we still on this?
Has my disease been active recently?
Are we still on this? Yeah, Yeah.
Because I feel like that's such a just loaded question.
Yeah, of course. Your turn, Carly.
It always is. Well.
We were just talking about tattoos, but I have been
spending a lot. I just buy a new pair of shoes.
What? Kind.
Sabrina's. Oh yo, I just got Sabrina's.

(15:02):
I just bought the new Stewie threes.
What? The fuck are you guys talking
about? I bought the new I bought.
I bought the Sabrina Stronger than gold I buy.
Chucks, I got the new Harry Potter 3 Sabrina threes or it's
not Sabrina Stewie threes. Nice.
So they have like a Horcrux going up the side of it.
It does sound awesome, but. They only had them in women's
sizes, so I had to, like, transfer whatever, dude, I had

(15:25):
to do the math. Dude I bought women shoes
before. They fit well.
They had basketball shoes like they a lot of times they'll have
it men's like women's 8 1/2, men's 7.
So like you would know, Yeah, I.Remember in.
Shoes like the women basketball shoes are kind of dope right
now. Dude, in middle school, they're
these bright ass orange running shoes and they were like, like,

(15:47):
fucking awesome, man. I was like, I don't give shit
that they're in fucking women's section.
I fucking bought them. Rock the shit out of those
orange shoes. But other than shopping recently
and spending money recently. I'm going to tie the next
question into this well, what isit?
What is it like when I'm obsessed with something?
Because that's they. Also kind of talked about that
though in the first question, like obsess and obsess obsess,

(16:10):
like fixate, need it, need it, need it.
And then I get it and I'm disappointed because.
The end and the obsession guiltyand the obsession pretty much
outweighs any any potential guilt like any any consequences
like are then overridden by the obsession and compulsion.
Until after the fact. Until after the fact.
Yeah. It's like post, not clarity.

(16:33):
Other than like materialistic things right now.
Not clarity. Wow, wow, that's oh, wow.
Don't tell me that's not a real thing.
I have never heard that but it is so fucking true.
Yes, it is never You've never heard of post nut.
Clarity, you guys let me know when I can get back to the
answer to my question. Sorry.
Hold on. Sorry, no.
We need to talk about this. Wow.

(16:55):
I'm gonna write. You ever had post nut clarity?
Carly. Have you Carly?
No. You've never hooked up with it.
You never like, you know, hit that mark and been like that was
that was not worth it or. Like it's.
Always worth it because if I setthat goal.
Yeah, I guess. Or masturbate it and felt guilty
about it afterwards. Or like, you know, anything like

(17:17):
that now. Title.
Of my sex tape that's I felt guilty about it afterwards.
OK. So that's a good.
Idea at the time that's a good that's.
It was a good idea at the time. Exactly.
Carly, back to you. Now you don't even know what
we're saying. No, no.
So you. 2 are so immature today,I know.

(17:39):
What is it like to be obsessed with something when, you know,
when our disease is back is active just like we.
Yeah, what you were saying, Yeah.
The, the obsession, It it Trump's everything.
Yeah. And when?
Yeah, just like you said, you know when your mind is set on
something, you're going to get it no matter what.

(18:01):
I mean, but there's good and badobsessions, right?
So like, like right now, like I have this, I have an obsession.
I posted about it on social media a few weeks ago.
I'm obsessed with racket sports.I know you are.
I know it's. So lame.
Like really obsessed. Like I know you are.
I played a tournament yesterday for most of the day.

(18:23):
My legs feel like Jelly right now.
That makes sense why you woke upthe way you did.
Yeah, my legs feel like just straight Jelly.
But you know that that could be like an example of a good
obsession where, you know, I mean, I can take it to an
unhealthy level, but I think where it's at right now is good.

(18:44):
But like, I guess like an example of an unhealthy
obsession for me right now wouldbe sugar.
Which I can never. I can never fucking figure that
fucking asshole out. But you know, I, I mean, I'll
try. I think I'm going to try again
to cut back on sugar. It's just, it's in everything.
It's just. So fucking difficult.

(19:06):
And I'm like, even in the natural sugar I'm like, well,
it's good. But like, this is still a lot of
fucking sugar. Yeah, it's still sugar.
Yeah. Like, oh, it's.
Stevia and it's like it's. No, I dude, Stevia, I can't do
stevia 'cause then I'm like, this just tastes like diet.
Like I, I don't like the taste of diet, you know.
So I, I think that's one that it's not, it's not all

(19:31):
consuming. It's not like an obsession where
like you have, like you're, you're, you're being lustful or
you want 'cause that can be bad.Like the lustful obsession.
Yeah, that's me, but. That's me.
It's more of this like thing in your mind that's just creeping,
like, Oh yeah, I want to eat those white chocolate chips.

(19:51):
Yeah, it's just a tiny little goblin that's just like, just
poking you. Over and over again.
I want a Mexican Coke. You should get that.
You should get that. Oh, I want some juice.
You should. Get that juice is good for you.
You should get that. I think you should get.
That. Yeah.
All right. I think that this next question
we can answer real quick. When a thought occurs to me, do
I immediately act on it without considering the consequences?

(20:11):
No. No.
Eric I I don't immediately I, I always think about it.
Yeah, exactly. And now there was a time like
when I was fucked up, like when I was using drugs and alcohol.
It would be like, hey, do this pill.
Even early on in recovery. Even when I was fucked up, I
still went through some sort of like you're.

(20:34):
Different. Benefit Analysis.
Cost benefit What's the cost benefit analysis of this 8 ball
that I'm about to buy? What's the cost benefit
analysis? I definitely was.
I wasn't as careful as you, Eric, but I wasn't as reckless
as you. Yeah.
Yeah. I was somewhere in between, but
I would react out of whatever emotions I was feeling without
thinking. Oh yeah, no, I'm.

(20:55):
But I've gotten so much better at that.
I'm 3 sheets in the wind. Fuck it.
Does the self-centered part of my disease affect my life in the
lives of those around me? Not anymore.
It did. But not even like, I mean, well,
if you haven't figured that shitout in 12 years, you got a
fucking problem. Well, what I was going to say
earlier when you guys so rudely interrupted me, which we're

(21:17):
doing again. Go ahead.
Part of my, I would say disease being active recently is the
negative like thought process and the self talk, which I think
would be affecting the self-centered part of my disease
affecting my life currently about how just everything I do
was horrible. Like I'm not doing this right or

(21:39):
I'm not doing that right. And just the self doubt which I
think. And then if I'm so like have
that self doubt, I think then itis affecting those around me
because then I'm not. Self deprecation is actually
like it. It's an addiction with no
benefit. Yeah.

(21:59):
Well, no, there is no benefit. Like realistically, like sure.
Like yes, it's making. Myself feel bad, feels like a
benefit sometimes but. Yeah, Or like I can make a funny
joke at my own expense and it's like, ha, ha in the moment and
it's like funny, but then like it's like, that's true.
But like especially with my job where I'm supposed to be helping
others and caring for others. Like if I'm in that self like

(22:22):
negativity and thinking everything that I do is horrible
and a waste of time then I'm notable to.
Like give a. 100. Percent yeah yeah does myself
center part of my disease event yeah yeah because I'll like I'll
I'll still want like initially to point the finger at others

(22:45):
instead of looking at myself like my my initial brain will be
like oh it's fucking it's their fucking fault and that's that's.
Which question is this? The self-centered How does the
self-centered part of my diseaseaffect my life?
And like I'm self-centered stillin thinking that like other
people are at fault and not necessarily me.

(23:07):
Like you don't bear any responsibility.
Just initially, like my brain will say that, which I like, I
know it's bullshit and but like my brain will say like even with
even with, you know, my wife, I'll be like, well, she's doing
this so. No, no, no.
No, I don't, but my brain will still do that so that like and

(23:30):
it can sabotage me for a little while, but eventually like it's
within like sometimes it's minutes, sometimes it's hours,
occasionally it's days where I like I can reel back in that
that self-centered, you know, I'm I'm better than attitude or
whatever, like oh, I'm working on shit.

(23:51):
She's not working on nut like whatever diatribe my stupid
brain wants to go on. So that's how it it can affect
me. But it's it's really not bad,
but my brain still does it. I don't want to go into that.
Next question, does my disease affect me physically, mentally,
spiritually, emotionally? Do we want to do that one?

(24:13):
Yeah, well, I, I mean it's, it'sobvious.
Yeah, I think it's, it's obvious.
Did it affect me physically? Yes.
Did it affect me mentally? Absolutely.
That's all the questions we've just been answering.
Right. And so are the next two.
Yeah, about manifesting itself. You know, obsessing over people,
places and things. Well.
That is that about. What is the specific way my
addiction has been manifesting itself most recently?

(24:35):
We already answered that. No, we haven't.
Just has my disease been active recently?
I how is it? I didn't answer that.
OK. Would you like to answer that?
Well, it's money. It's the same as Carly.
Yeah, Yeah. It's just see.
You did. You did answer it.
How is it manifesting? You just bought shoes.
I and I did buy the new lamellasas well.

(24:56):
I I really. Like.
Them they're Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle theme shoes.
Those are the you. What?
Nice. They're teenage mutant.
What? I'll have to show them to you
upstairs. They're sick It's it's I got the
crank, you know crank crank yes,I know crank, so I got crank
like his shoes. That's dope.
And like they're I'm. Not even mad at that.

(25:17):
They're a pink suede that like looks like A and it looks like a
brain is the texture of the shoe.
OK, you'll have to show dude, and I'll show you the the tattoo
I almost got, which I actually in the future am going to get
because it's fucking hysterical.So yeah, even though I got, even
though I scratched my itch yesterday, I still want more.
Do you have a? Full sleeve yet?

(25:38):
Yeah. A full sleeve.
I mean full. Full full full.
I mean I I got some gaps but forthe most part like my my left
and right arm are covered exceptfor the inside of my right bicep
is still blank. Is.
That the goal though, eventuallyis.
That the sleeve. Is it going to be like are you
going to get work done over top of it to like make it gel
together or is it? Just going to be.

(26:00):
The inflammation of like all your top.
I mean, yes, so, so I mean, my half sleeve on my right, aside
from elbow to wrist is all one cohesive thing.
And then I have hodgepodge rightup and then my left arm, I mean,
I have Walt Whitman, The Lorax. I mean, and then, you know,
Marilyn carpet, yeah, a whole bunch of different shit.
So yeah, left arm is a little bit more of an amalgam than my

(26:20):
right, but yeah, that's, I mean,money and time.
Money and time, then, yeah. They call salami.
You get tattoos. Yeah.
It does. Denial.
Yeah. Eric, are you not done?
I'm done, I guess. Yeah.
All right. Well, it's have you been
obsessed with a person place their thing?
Well, how about this? Has anyone ever let's talk about

(26:42):
this, because we probably all have been obsessed with a person
Who's the person you've been obsessed with?
And like, how did that work out for you?
Carly, go first. I can't.
Carly go first or David go first.
I mean. 'Cause I think people are like

(27:04):
the most interesting thing to beobsessed with, 'cause they might
not be obsessed back. And that can create like real
weird situations. My shit with people is like a
it's sort of the idea of a person and not necessarily an
individual themselves. Are you?
Talking about redheads. Yes, just like the, you know,

(27:27):
the idea of something different.So it's not even necessarily
always a tangible, like individual.
It it, it's more of that. Yeah.
It's just that metaphysical ideaof like, you know, somebody else
for whatever reason, just because, just just like with
anything, like I have a wife, you know, it gets scratched, but

(27:52):
I still want more. From wherever you're an animal.
I am a goddamn you. Want to procreate with
everything? Oh, OK.
You're a gene at a biology. You're actually just calling me
an animal, which I am. At a biological rate like it
doesn't, monogamy doesn't reallymake that much sense.
But Carly. What?
You're next? I'm not next, you are.

(28:13):
Next, my story is last Let's talk about a time that you've
been obsessed with someone and it's been weird.
What if it hasn't been weird? I know it has been weird 'cause
you're laughing and you're you're having a very difficult
time talking about this. You've had to have had a
situation where you've been in the obsessive role.

(28:40):
I got nothing. David tell me that she has
something she's. I don't know dude.
I don't know everything. All.
Right, what have you got? I do OK, so obsessed with per
person right So before I'd say like after I broke up with this
one girl, like it was weird we broke up and like I was the

(29:06):
instigator for breaking up, but I was the one who was upset and
became obsessed. That's.
Not surprising. But it was more like in retro
and like after doing like step work on it and doing like mental
health work on it, I realized itwasn't really the girl that was
like what I was striving for. It was like the IT.

(29:31):
Was the idea it? Was it was the touch and the
feel and like the idea of a person can.
You some saxophone that's getting sexy.
Wanting, Yeah. No, keep going.
Don't stop. But but that turned out and then
and then that turned into a situation where I went and like

(29:51):
met a New Girl and I became obsessed with that girl and of.
Course, because it's people, places and things.
And I moved to Chicago for that person.
How'd that work out? I in.
Long. That's the thing.
Long. Long.
Term it worked out perfectly. It worked.
Out great. Yep, it worked out great.
Look where you look where you'reat.
Yep, you're like failing upwards.

(30:12):
Like that girl, as much as she ruined my life, I needed to
happen. Yes.
You know, Yeah. But yeah.
Yeah. All right.
Denial. Denial.
Denial is the part of our disease.
You're going to answer that question.
Denial is the part of our disease that tells us we don't
have a disease. When we are in denial, we are

(30:33):
unable to see the reality of ouraddiction.
We minimize its effect. We blame others, see citing the
two high expectations of family,friends, employers.
We compare ourselves with other addicts whose addiction seems
quote UN quote worse than ours. We may blame one particular drug
if we have been absent abstinentfrom drugs for some time.
We might compare the current manifestation of our addiction

(30:53):
with our drug use rationalism, rationalizing that nothing we do
could possibly be as bad as thatwas.
One of the easiest ways to tell that we are in denial is when we
find ourselves giving plausible but untrue reasons for our
behavior. Have I given a plausible but
untrue reason for my behavior? Go ahead and take it away, Eric.

(31:18):
Yeah, I mean. Yeah.
Thanks Butthead. I mean from from a using
perspective like I think it was just all lies pretty much,
right? Yeah.
Where were you tonight, Eric? Oh, I was with John.
Oh, no, I was actually in the city doing cocaine with a bunch
of people. But.
John was there. John might have been there.
Who the? Fuck is John.

(31:41):
But like, everything, everythingwhen I was using was a lie,
right? Yeah, at least originally.
During my relapses I became muchmore like, abrasive and didn't
really give a fuck. And I'd just be like, I'm high,
I don't care. Good for you.
That's fair. Yeah, well, yeah, I was like,

(32:02):
honesty is the first part of thesteps, guys.
I need to be honest. Oh yeah, you were fully
surrendered to your disease. So I'm fully surrendered.
Yeah, we've talked about this, the surrendering to the disease.
But yeah, I mean, like the like they're just, you know, I guess
one of the big ones is like, whywere you in the bathroom so

(32:24):
long? Yeah.
Oh, I had some bad shellfish. Well, luckily I did have IBS, so
I always had that to fall back on, but there you go, you know?
Yeah, plausible. But untrue reasons for my
behavior. You got anything I'm thinking?
I'm thinking I mean. Yeah.
I mean, that was what act of addiction was.

(32:46):
Yeah, I mean. Like reasons, like everything.
Like you said, Eric was a lie. Yeah, it was a stat, but it was
finding like ways to cover up those lies that would make sense
so nobody would question my behavior.
Yeah. Oh, I woke up later.
Yeah, I. Overslept I.
Overslept. I got a flat tire.
My friend's dog died. Like, you know, anything.

(33:09):
Whatever plausible fucking reason I could come up with, cuz
yeah, that's what you have to do.
And the thing of it is like now being clean and like dealing
with people who are relapsers or, you know, whoa, people,
whoa, no, no, don't Hear me out.Hear me out.
Hear me out, hear me out. No, I mean like, I mean people

(33:32):
who like get 30 days and they smoke crack again, they're like
I, you know. You're talking about the the
revolving door people. Yeah, just like, you know, the
people that are just just scraping along the bottom, like
they're just like they get a little bit of clean time.
Shellfish of the. Yes, the crustaceans of of the
recovery world. You need to say that in a

(33:56):
meeting one day. The crustaceans of.
Work that into. I will do that for my
anniversary for you. I will be.
Like the? Crustaceans once a crusty.
Yes, I was once a crab and now Ican swim a bottom.
Feed it. Was a bottom.
I was a fucking bottom, Peter. But no, being on the other side
of it. And they're like, oh, you know,

(34:17):
life, life got difficult and you're like, OK, dude, just stop
smoking crack. For the love of God, just stop
smoking fucking crack. Have us compulsively acted on an
obsession and then acted as if it had actually planned to act
that way. Of course, of course like you

(34:38):
want. To talk about Craigslist, David.
What about Craigslist? A section that doesn't exist
anymore. I think that would be a probably
a section that relates to this. I mean, yeah, the fucking yeah.
Meeting people off Craigslist, yeah, just like, and that's the

(34:59):
thing. It was just like an idea of a
person to, you know. I think you're the only other
person I know who's done that besides me.
That was dude, that that was. Always felt.
Super dangerous. Oh, it always felt so dangerous.
And if you when you got in the car, it was like, am I going to
die? Yeah, I was like, what bad thing
is about to happen to me? And then yeah, ultimately that.

(35:23):
Was a good thing that happened to me.
Yeah, that was. A good thing that happened to
me. And then you're like, oh, that's
totally what I meant to happen. I totally meant to get into this
absolutely sketchy situation with this sketchy person and
just have a mildly decent outcome.
Yeah, yeah. I mean.
But I feel like that's a compulsive act, but that like.

(35:43):
That that goes back to what we just did, like the plausible
reasons for what we did 'cause then we rationalize it on top of
it. It's like, yeah, I just went
into Baltimore to like do some sketchy shit, but it but hey,
I'm alive now and I got my bag so.
Well, it's like, not. Even the bag it's, it's like the
obsession of like, I, I need to have sex.
I want to have sex. And the way that I'm going to do

(36:05):
that is I'm going. Is the sketchiest fucking way
possible. Going to go onto the what it
what was it called the personal section?
Yeah, the personal section of which they still have the missed
connection section, which dude, they go, they go into the missed
connection section every every Monday morning on 98 Rock and it
is hilarious. Probably all.
Do you even know about those? No, I love that.

(36:26):
Yeah, it was, it was, it was a grimy, grimy fucking place.
And. Oh man, everyone on it was grimy
too. It was so gross.
I was probably not much better. I mean, I was fine, I guess.
I don't know. But yeah.
Have I blamed other people for my behavior?
Yes. I dude and.
When did you stop blaming other people for your behavior?

(36:49):
How about that? When when when did you stop
doing that? In the first couple years of
recovery. So it took a few years.
In the first, I'd say the first two years I, I, I genuinely was
like, you know, that like it, itmight have precipitated my
behavior to a degree, but ultimately I made those two, I

(37:11):
made those choices and I, I did those things like and like
specifically like I blamed my dad for, you know, being an
abusive, neglectful, like emotionally scarring piece of
shit. It for a long fucking time.
And part of me to this day stillis like, they're still like, I
don't know, one or two percent, which is like, I mean, he has

(37:32):
some culpability there. Well, dude, you're, I mean, yes,
all those things are true, yes. All those things are true, but.
However. However, it did not like he
didn't make me fucking, you know, smoke coke.
Yeah, the choice was yours. I.
Did that, yes. The emotional damage was done.
What I did with that emotional damage was all on me.

(37:52):
But yeah, no, I, I, I, I blamed,you know, my mom and dad for my
drug problem for a long time because my rationalization was
like, what did, what did you want me to do?
Like I how else am I supposed tocope with this 'cause I didn't?
Blame my parents for my drug addiction.
Yeah. But like, but it gets to a point

(38:18):
where it's like, yeah, they did what they did, but I did what I
did. So like they were, yeah.
So they were a precipitating factor.
There are. Catalyst moment, yes.
So where like it could be, there's always this and people,
people might disagree with this,but I believe there's two types
of people who come into recovery.

(38:39):
There's those that have been manufactured and there are those
who are organic addicts and they're very different.
They're very different types of addicts.
Like I'm a manufactured addict. I mean, do you?
Understand what I'm trying to say though.
I do. Like I don't necessarily know

(39:00):
that's if I would have become anaddict.
That's tough. I don't know.
I know because my brain chemistry was so changed by all
of that shit. I know, but I don't know.
And because I say 100% what you're saying, but that
technically would put me into that same category of
manufactured. It could, because what if I did

(39:20):
have a, you know, loving, caringset of parents and shit just
happened anyway? Exactly.
So like that, that's. 'Cause you had a really good
upbringing, yeah. And like you became so like.
And I just like used to use for fun, but eventually that became
like not enough. So that was organic, the use for
fun, like you want it to feel like a, like that could almost

(39:43):
be a part of, right? Like.
So you didn't have this thing where there was a Doctor Who was
like, there's something wrong with that.
Here's a lot of medicine. But.
See also on the manufactured side.
Like with you, Carly, wasn't there always like a tiny voice
in your head that was always just like?
It's not good enough. Like what I'm doing is not good.
Enough all the time I. Don't really fucking belong

(40:05):
here. Like these people don't really
like so like, I'm not. Saying I'm just saying it's a
different way of coming, right? Like, that's like there's like
an organic way of coming to drugs and then there's a like a,
a way. There's like I'd.
Say, like the way my wife came to it.
To, to, to. Like mental health, like to to.
I think he'd like to rephrase ita little bit or reframe it a

(40:27):
little bit. Is internal and external, yeah.
Yeah, internal. Because I, I think yours was a
little bit more internal and mine was precipitated from
external and, and then became internal.
Like I was OK theoretically as akid.
And then, you know, my dad started fucking, you know,

(40:49):
punching me and throwing me intofucking walls as a very young,
at a very young age And like completely fucked my mind into
then I'm not good enough. Isn't throwing into walls isn't
that just like the worst? You know, like dude, that a fun
though it's a little fun I'll. Tell you what, the most money
fuck thing he would fucking do to me that like, that fucked me
up for a long time is like, he would come in like, and this is

(41:13):
this is not sexual, but he wouldcome into my bed and like I'd be
under the covers and he would just hold the covers down so
tight that I wouldn't be able tomove.
And like, then he would just verbally fucking berate me.
Like, what the fuck? Yeah.
So I had a real, like, I had a really big fucking thing with
like constraint and like tight spaces for a long time.

(41:37):
Like, I could not fucking deal with it for the longest time yet
'cause he would just, he would just, like, that was his, like,
control. Like he would, yeah, he would
just grab the blankets and just push me down, like into the bed.
Yeah, but it's the same thing with a wall.
But yeah, he would also do it like in my bed at night.
And it's like, he's fucked up, dude.
That's your dad sucks. My dad is a piece of shit.
I like, really hope nothing but the worst for that man.

(41:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, he he is the worst.
But yeah, so like, so, yeah, part of me like, but that I
can't use that as a rationalization.
Like, that's not like, that's not fair to me.
No, you can't use it as a rationalization, but you you can
give yourself some empathy and compassion.
For this situation, exactly like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not

(42:20):
like, and looking back on it now, it was it was it was a
defense mechanism. My my addiction was a defense
mechanism for a long time, just trying to cope and survive with.
David, the small child needs hope and compassion, right?
Like the that kid that back thenthat was scared, like that's
like, oh. I can't think about that right

(42:41):
now. That's the person that needs to
be like hugged, essentially. I like to.
Do that right now your. Child's self.
Please stop talking, OK? We're gonna move on to the next
question. How have I compared my addiction
to other people's addiction? Oh I love this question.
Did. You ever do that?
Feeling like in a way like mine wasn't bad enough because of

(43:05):
that up good upbringing that youtalked about like I didn't have.
I mean, there was some shit thathappened that I've but like not
within my family. So I always compared out
thinking that like my life wasn't bad enough to be here.
Yeah. Can I answer it for you a little
bit, Eric, go ahead because I think I have in the ballpark

(43:29):
which? Way do you want to answer it
but. Go ahead.
You want to go socioeconomic? No.
So the way you would compare your addiction is you would
compare quote UN quote. You know, theoretically people
that were lesser than you in NA were like you're here for weed.
Oh get the fuck out of here. You don't belong.
Well. You remember you were there for

(43:50):
my for my like my speech, my third, my third tradition
speech, right it. Was yeah.
And I was just like, why don't we just make a fucking hierarchy
in here? Like there should be a
hierarchy. Yeah, everybody smoked, just
smoked weed. Get in the fucking back in the
room. If you did dope and coke, you're
in the front row, OK, but if yousmoked weed you don't even get a

(44:10):
fucking chair. Go back there.
So that's how you compared your addiction to other people I.
Would still make it to the frontrow.
No, but also like, like I, I mean, to be fair, my first time
coming into the rooms I was like20.
We did notice the the DLC with alot of people.

(44:32):
Yes, yes, the DLC, we'll talk about that.
But I, when I first came in, I was only doing oxy and coke And
I, I specifically remember beinglike, I'm not like these people.
They do coke. I mean, they do heroin and
crack. And in order for me to be here,
I have to at least be able to bedoing heroin and crack.
So I went out and did heroin andcrack.

(44:56):
I felt like that's. A go get them type attitude.
Right there, like I belonged thenext time I came with.
A little crack and some can do attitude.
You can earn your seat in our Cox Anonymous.
Oh my God, I want to make a. Commercial like that?
Oh my God. That was pretty funny.
Oh, you threw me off a little bit there, but.

(45:17):
That was too good, but. I do I it's hard to compare
because like sometimes. Yeah.
Sometimes it's just like, dude, I, I was doing a cocktail of
like 6 to 9 drugs for years, youknow, like where some people are
like it's, it's, it's very different.
It's like, you know, so when I'mwithdrawing from benzos, I can

(45:41):
die. Like, you know, like there's
like real consequences to these actions.
And there are different levels of consequences and there's
different levels to what people can take.
And that's all well and good, but I'm always going to compare
how much I used to how much other people used.
And I, I think that's natural, right?
Yeah. But like, yeah, anybody who's

(46:02):
listening me, you know, if if you're still in this episode.
This is a great episode. It's a.
Fantastic episode. You should still be here.
You know, if you're feeling like, oh, I don't belong, keep
like keep coming back for a little while.
Like eventually you will and youdo.
Belong like you do have. Friends like you didn't, you
didn't happen into that room accidentally.

(46:22):
It's not like, oh, it's a Tuesday.
Let me go to a Narcotics Anonymous meeting.
Like there was something in yourbrain or your friend's brain
like thinking like, hey, we should, we should go to this.
We all do different levels of drugs too.
All of our friends, like we are all at different levels of like
what brought us. And ultimately, like, you know,
just the for just the weed smokers out there, we know some

(46:42):
weed, just strictly weed smokersthat are complete.
Like we know people that are ruthless.
We know people who belong. Yeah, right.
Like. Just off weed.
There's like, weed is absolutelya fucking drug.
Like I know plenty of people that just smoke weed and I'm
like, you're what are you doing?Like you are.
You are a fucking crustacean. But to be fair, weed is also in

(47:03):
medicine and it's. And that's why addiction like.
Addiction like because I had a roommate?
I. Had a roommate where you know he
couldn't even walk up the he couldn't figure how his way he
smoked so much weed that he. Forgot how stairs were.
He couldn't. Figure out how to get up the
stairs and I was like, how do you smoke that much?

(47:26):
Which? Is which is.
How like he said he smoked a glass blunt of 3.5g and I was
like, well, that's a lot. I think that's a that's a big
blunt. That's a big blunt.
And then it was like, but it waslike so funny watching him
because he was just trying to like walk, but he couldn't move.
I know exactly what I was talking about too.
Yeah, it's him, but it's just like, dude, like, like what?

(47:49):
Like there are people like that.Yeah.
And like that, that actually like brings me to another point,
like when you were saying like, oh, it depends on the person.
Like you think there's somebody out there who just like
literally once a year is like, Ido a little cocaine once a year.
I. Do I think there's like they're
like it's? It's New Year's.
I'm going to do some cocaine. No, I and like that's and like I

(48:11):
think there's would I necessarily consider them an
addict? I don't know.
David, I think there's more people like that than you could
imagine, probably. And I think there's people that
are like, oh, I'm just going to do heroin this week.
Yeah. Like, I think that the number of
people who successfully use is larger than.
Quote UN quote successfully use or.
Whatever, you know, like if because at the end of the day,

(48:32):
you're coming down to like what?It's up to, I mean, it's up to
their life and their unmanageability.
Yeah, but you're saying what is there the unmanageability, right
moderation management would we're just?
Ping ponging years. I'm just listening 'cause I
don't just think about Garrett well.
Moderation management would tellus.
Or some of his friends. It is more about what's your

(48:52):
bottom line, right? Yeah.
So where like where it doesn't matter about what drug you're
using necessarily, Where, where's my bottom line with like
that substance? Like, because if I, if I do
heroin necessarily, like it becomes a problem when I keep
doing it over and over again. It's not necessarily the first

(49:13):
time you do it. I, yeah, I have an opinion about
needles in general. I'm like, once you get to the
point of like even if you're, even if it's just once a year,
you're, you're sticking a needlein your skin.
And I'm like because. It can kill you.
Well, what about boofing? Because.
Once a year? Oh my God, no.
No. No, all right.

(49:34):
What did it about if it was sexual?
Like you boof something and tooka popper?
OK, I that is not the direction I thought you were going.
I thought you meant, like, somebody's like, addiction with
sex, Like, oh, I'm just going tocheat once a year.
Oh. No, no, no, no.
I'm I'm talking about like someone shoving boofing you

(49:57):
while you take a popper so that you know you're loosened up back
there. Am I comparing a current
manifestation of my addiction tothe way my life was before I got
clean? Am I plagued by the idea that I
should know better? Probably.

(50:17):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I have recently
especially like in within the last year, quitting cigarettes
finally because because for dude, for a year I went eleven
years clean, still smoking cigarettes.

(50:40):
And yeah, the entire time I was like, I shouldn't be like I know
I'm fucking addicted. I'm I'm spending $10 a day for
for 11 dude, that's like I spentin in that 11 year span $30,000
so much on cigarettes so much. That's nuts.
Well, I would say vaping right now because in probably for the

(51:02):
past almost year now, I've wanted to quit, but then it runs
out and I'm like, OK, I'll go get more.
Yeah. And it's that it's that cycle.
And what's weird is like for thefor like a year I've been good,
but like I don't know what like the last month my brain has been
like cigarette would be nice. See.
I I dude, I hate the smell. I hate the.

(51:24):
News, that is. That is one of the biggest
things, dude. When I smell other people, I'm
like, oh, I can't believe that's.
What you used to smell like, that's.
What I used to smell like, I feel so guilty about that.
I'm like, I'm so sorry that I smelled that horrendous around
you guys for all that time. I.
Know like when I think back to my family and them like.
Not well. Fuck them.
But but complaining about the smell not.
My family, your family. The smell I'm like Oh yeah I get

(51:46):
it. The smell was pretty bad.
Especially this, like when it gets on like the end of your
shirt, whatever that fucking spell is your hand slash shirt.
It's so bad. Yeah.
It's pretty gross. Am I comparing a current
manifestation? Good on that one.
Yeah, OK. Have I been thinking that I have

(52:08):
enough information about addiction and recovery to get my
behavior under control before itgets out of hand?
Yes. No.
You don't have enough information.
Not about so OK, not about addiction and recovery.
I think I have, you know, a, a, a very good handle on the, you

(52:30):
know, the scope of both my enough information is I don't
have enough information about me.
Like I'm still learning and growing and, and life in
general. Like shit is shit's crazy.
And if something like really like out of left field comes

(52:50):
down the Pike, like, will I be able to handle it?
I don't know. And I know, and I know you know
what I'm talking about, Eric, 'cause you're a dad.
Oh, you're talking about that? Yeah, like if, if that like.
That to the reservation section yeah, I don't yeah, we'll.
Talk about that later. I I can't even think about it.
Think about that. It's OK, but it comes into my

(53:11):
brain every once in a while because I I do have to think
about that. Do you?
Know that actress. Because we're, we're also
married. Yeah.
But like, if something like happened to, you know, any of
our significant others like God forbid, like.
It's different than I don't knowhow I'm going to react.
It's different than with my kid.Absolutely, Absolutely.

(53:32):
My kid, like I know how I react with my wife.
My kid is a whole different ballgame.
Yeah, I mean, I mean. I don't know if I could survive
my kid, I could survive my wife.Yeah, Yeah.
Well, I know. And like I've thought about that
as well. It sucks, but like I'd have to
when it exactly when it's the wife, it's not.

(53:53):
I don't have a choice. I don't have a choice to break
down. I have to continue being a dad.
But yeah, if it's the other way,I've, I've literally instructed
Brad and Donnie, I'm like, you better chain me to a fucking
radiator for a while. Yeah, we'll get through.
I think I kill myself. I'm.
Sorry, you are you are correct. There's a reservation section in
about a page and a half, so holdyour thoughts.

(54:15):
OK, good, Good job. Have I been thinking about Oh so
yeah, I just don't know enough about my I still I'm I'm still
learning and growing about myself like I've I've been
actively working and finding outwho David is for 12 years.
That's not that's not a lot of time like I I've I've been

(54:37):
wondering about who this who this character is since I was 8.
So, you know, out of 29 years, I've spent 12 of them with a
decent clear headed mind as to who I am and where I'm going.
So do I have enough to think that I can control this?

(54:58):
No, I, I don't because that's, and that's why I do.
I does part of my brain think itis a possibility that I could
control smoking weed or drinking?
Yes, but there is also the the other side of that coin is I
could completely fuck up everything and lose everything

(55:19):
and am I willing to roll those dice and I'm not?
That's the doctorate program of recovery.
You know that takes a while to get to.
Shut up, bitch, and we'll go to our final question.
Carly, what is it? Am I avoiding action because I'm
afraid I will be ashamed when I face the results of my

(55:39):
addiction? Am I avoiding action because I'm
worried about what others will think?
No, sometimes. Sometimes about certain things.
What's your answer to this question?
No, OK. About certain things, maybe.
Well. Like wait wait I.

(56:00):
Feel like to A to a degree you are OK let.
Me. OK.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, please. Not so much the first part, but
the second part. Are you avoiding action?
Because I'm worried about what other people think to yes, to a
degree. And I, I think you're avoiding,
you know, getting, coming back and getting a Home group and

(56:23):
doing all that good shit, not, not because of what people think
necessarily, but more because fuck other people and they've
been Dicks to you, right? So it's, it's still kind of
involving people, but not because you're, you're not
ashamed resulting the face of none, none, none of that shit.

(56:44):
But I think, like, part of you is like, yeah, like, 'cause I
know part of you wants to get like, you know, be back more
involved, but then another part of you is like, well, fuck these
people. They're Dicks.
Yeah, I I like that second part.Yeah, I don't like the first
part. Yeah.
The first part I think is we allhave enough clean time now that

(57:05):
I don't think it's relevant. Fuck those people, they're
Dicks. Yeah, I mean, yeah, fuck those
people. They are Dicks.
I mean and sometimes that is thecase.
Most people like, I mean, if youreally think about it, like
truly think about it, how many people from recovery genuinely
affect your life? 5.

(57:30):
Maybe not even 5. I mean, I, I can, I I can name.
I mean, it's you 2 and it is Brad and Donnie.
Brad, Kim and Donnie. Yeah.
That's it for me. It's five.
Yeah. YouTube Brad, Donnie, Kim and
probably my two sponsees. Well.
Yeah, yeah. And your sponsor, right?

(57:51):
And my sponsor, yeah, urban hobby as well.
Urban hobby. So yeah, 7 less than 10 you.
Got you. Got good.
Less than 10. But.
Yeah, but like. But that's, that's the people
you're afraid of, like disappointing, right?
Like that's the I'm. Not.
Or like you're not afraid of disappointing, but they're that
I care. About your guys.
Opinions. People you care about.

(58:11):
Yeah, I like, yeah, if I got a scathing review from one of
those the, you know, 7 people, I'd be like, Oh my God, I need
to, I need to look at some shit like this.
This is fucking, this is what matters.
Yeah, if fucking Joe Schmo that,I don't know, it pops into a
meeting once and says, oh, well,you shouldn't do.

(58:32):
I'm like, oh, cool, I'll take that under advisement and you
have a nice day. Goodbye.
Yeah, yeah. The NPCS that I run into all the
fucking time, I don't give a shit.
I don't give a shit about them, no offense.
And and like, that's not to say that like I don't give a shit
when they're negative towards me.

(58:55):
Well, it's if it's a, if it's a total positive thing where
somebody's coming to my Home group for the first time,
they're like, oh, I'm really interested in that.
I'm like, cool. Yeah, absolutely.
Like here's my phone number. Please keep coming back.
You know, we'll meditate, we'll talk some more.
Like I, I genuinely like I I have an overreaching affection
and desire to be a positive influence on other people around

(59:16):
me. But as far as yeah, if you're
going to step into my bubble andbe a fucking Dick face, you can
kick rocks, dude. I don't have time for that shit.
Yeah, but I think that's it for,you know, this first series.
What the done? I think I was going to say we
could do one more. You want to do hitting bottom,
there's. Only three questions in that
one. OK.

(59:38):
Yeah. So hitting bottom, despair and
isolation. Our addiction finally brings us
to a place where we can no longer deny the nature of our
problem. All the lies, all the
rationalizations, all the illusions fall away.
As we stand face to face with what our lives have become.
We realize we've been living without hope.
We find we've become friendless or so completely disconnected
that our relationships are a sham, a parody of love and

(01:00:00):
intimacy. Wow.
Though it may seem that all is lost when we find ourselves in
this state, the truth is that wemust pass through this place
before we can embark upon a journey, our journey of
recovery. What crisis brought me to
recovery? I.
Want to That one ran. Out of drugs?
What do? You want to read No.

(01:00:21):
No, I want to read this. We we find that we've become
friendless or so completely disconnected that our
relationships are a sham. A so that goes back A.
Parody of love and intimacy. Well, that goes back to the
beginning point I made where it's all about connection.
Yeah. Yeah, like if you're
disconnected, then you know, you're, you're just by yourself,

(01:00:44):
like, yeah. Though it may seem all is lost
when we found ourselves in the state, the truth and we must
Pat. Yeah, it's true.
Like and and I know it's like cliche, like, oh, you go to hit
bottom before it, but but it's true.
Well, you don't. You don't remember.
We, we talked about this was it with Tara last time.

(01:01:04):
You don't necessarily have to hit your own bottom, but someone
might have to force you to go tothat bottom.
Yeah, Judge or whatever. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I mean, there, there has to be a, but that is a bottom.
A bottom bottom is when I mean you stop going lower.
I think I think of bottoms as usually.
I think of bottoms as like internalized individual things

(01:01:27):
usually not judge enforced things.
It, it, it, it, it depends. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there's, there's a lot of different types of bottoms
and you know, sometimes it's like Donnie getting a 0.0 in
fucking college and realizing he's kind of a turd.
I mean my bottom I was given pretty much 2 choices like
either continue using and destroy your life right or

(01:01:50):
figure it the fuck out and we'llhelp you out.
Yeah, yeah. And, and me, it was pretty much
very similar, just a different location.
Mary, my yours was being taught to talked about like with
colleagues and, and friends and people who you cared about.
Mine was from police officers and judges who were like,
listen, this could get a lot fucking worse.

(01:02:12):
Or you can straighten your shit out and move forward.
Mine was getting into a, gettingspeared by my dad and then like
getting into a fist fight, you got a.
Full Goldberg spear. Oh yeah, my dad.
My dad speared the shit out of me.
Did you deserve it? No OK I just took a bottle of
pills in front of him and he gotmad or it was the rest of the

(01:02:35):
bottle. There was only like 7 pills in
there. What were the pills?
They were Klonopin. OK, well, it wasn't Klonidine,
which is good. Well, you eat that, right?
If it's a patch, if it's in patch form, probably.
What crisis brought me to recovery?
Yeah, I don't know. From age 15 to age 25.

(01:02:55):
That was my 11th arrest. Like I I couldn't.
I couldn't. Stay out of jail.
Fuck. Did you get arrested?
I wasn't fucking good. I got arrested.
Once. I got arrested zero times.
I. Was not fucking good.
I was because just like you guyssaid, I was fucking reckless.
You were brazen. I would, yes.

(01:03:16):
I was I, I. Didn't give a fuck the fucking
asshole who would be like I'm going to smoke a joint right
here. I did that on, I did that on the
sidewalk of old Ellicott City all the time.
Exactly. And for anybody, any of you
younger generation listening, itused to be illegal.
You used to not be able to do that.
That was frowned upon. So yeah, I did.

(01:03:41):
I I dude, I was an angry little fucking crusty punk kid living
in. A.
Dodge Durango and a Pontiac I. Did why you would be angry
though your family life was rough.
Yeah, so like, and I like, and Ihad no desire to even attempt to
cope with any of it. I just said fuck the fucking
world. I'm going to do whatever I want,

(01:04:02):
whenever I want, and fuck you ifyou want to stop me.
And it just so happened that, you know, they stopped me 11
times. Oh my God, 11 times. 11 times
and. Was it all possession?
It was dude I got 3P BJSI, don'tknow how.
So wait, every, every, everything was possession
though. Everything.

(01:04:22):
Yeah, yeah. Oh, all the Major Crimes that I
committed, I never got caught for, which is.
Well, I know, I know about those, yes.
Which is amazing. But yeah, 'cause I could, yeah,
I could not talk. I could have been in jail for a
long. We're not talking about.
I could have been in jail for a No, I could have been in jail
for a long fucking time. What's the next question?

(01:04:43):
What situation led me to formally work step one?
Oh, fun fun fun. I like this question so.
OK. I want to go back to my, I mean,
you know, I'm going to go back to 2014.
No, 2013. My first sponsor was Nick P did
not work out. Nice guy.

(01:05:04):
I'm gonna put this on the record.
Fuck you, Nick P. Oh, that's rude.
I will not say that. And when you come on this show,
eventually, if you ever do, eventhough you're so wishy washy
about it, I will. I will intently interview.
You Jesus. He was my first sponsor.
He's not a bad guy. So anyway, he was my first

(01:05:28):
sponsor. He wanted me to call him every
day, which I did. And then one day I slipped up
and he wouldn't allow me to start working step one until I
called him every day for 90 daysand I got to like day like 45
and he would and I like slipped up one day and I didn't because
I would call him. I'm like, I don't know what the

(01:05:48):
fuck I'm saying this. I was like today was good
Tuesday, I don't know. And one day I slipped up and he
was like, all right, we got to start over.
And I was like, you just let me start fucking working steps.
So I like developed a resentmentagainst him.
Talked to us, some other people and they were like, dude, if you
want to work steps, find somebody who will work steps
with you. Talking to somebody on the phone
for 90 days doesn't mean shit stupid.

(01:06:08):
And I was like, thank you. So I got my real first, not my
second sponsor, who was then Tyler, who I worked my very
first I. Would say Tyler is your real
first sponsor he. Is my real real first sponsor
cause yeah like if. You didn't work any steps with.
Nick. Nick was my sponsor for those
first 45, like those first 45 days.
And then he wouldn't let me start wearing steps.

(01:06:30):
I was like, all right. So he was here like what?
What is it like? Dipping my toe in the water,
Yeah. But they have a name for that,
right? Like you're, I don't.
Know he was my trial period anyway, so I, I get with Tyler
Tyler, you know, he's like fucking run through it, dude.
So I start writing and I, I, I, I finished my first step pretty

(01:06:51):
fucking quick after that, I think I hadn't, I don't know,
maybe just a few months at that point.
And yeah, work, work my first step with him on the park bench
outside of the Serenity Center in Columbia.
And we actually got to the reservation section, which I'll,
I'll, I'll get to in the reservation section.

(01:07:12):
But he had, he had some brilliant stuff to say and he
like he, so he was 25 or 24 at the time and had two or three
years clean. He had originally had two or
three years clean from age 1819 and 20.
And then he turned 21 and relapsed for a couple years

(01:07:33):
because he had that. Oh, I drank, I drank and I never
got a legal drink and had that, but then came back and had I
think 2 years clean at that time.
And when all of us were coming in, two years clean was a shit
ton, shit ton of time. And yeah, so that was.
And then a year later, Tyler wasdead.

(01:07:53):
Yeah, it was murdered at the Columbia Mall.
But yeah, that that that's what,you know, led me to formally
working. The first step is I wanted to do
it. And, you know, Nick didn't want
to, and Tyler did. About you I.
Don't know, that's very detailedthat you remember all that I.
Did well. I, I dude, I fucking love Tyler,
Yeah. Tyler.

(01:08:13):
Was he was so influential to that like first year of recovery
for me it's also. So sad what happened.
Dude, like it's, it's still fucking sucks because it's been
11 years and, and like the he's still on my, he his, you know,
the, the handbill that I got at his funeral is still on my

(01:08:35):
refrigerator. And I look at Tyler every
fucking day, man. Fucking love that dude.
Forever. I keep those in my special
place. But that's, yeah, Tyler, man, He
didn't deserve that. No, no he did not, and it's
fucking unbelievable. Just working his job.
And yeah, some crazy fucking dude with an obsession.

(01:08:56):
And I did that girl did that girl maybe didn't even know that
guy, right? Yeah.
Like that guy just had a completely random obsession.
Like the fuck? Fuck, dude.
The world's fucked up. Anyway, what's so Carly?
First first step. I don't remember really.
I mean, I came in Danny, I honestly didn't know if I was

(01:09:18):
going to stay, but. There was a really cool guy at
your at your. He was all right.
And then I met Allie, like probably the second or third
week that I started coming to meetings, like I think it was
Donnie that pushed me to like, go talk to her probably.

(01:09:38):
And I started reaching out to her and when we got lunch and I
asked her to be my sponsor. And then it was just kind of
from there, like getting the Home group had the sponsor
laying a foundation. And then I don't think she was
like, oh, you need, you're required to start working or
this or that. I think it was just like I there

(01:10:00):
was a time where I became ready to start working it.
And yeah, that was that, yeah. How about you were was it Tim V.
Tim, Tim V man, great guy. So I came in to recovery like
that time when I was 24 with like a fire under me 'cause

(01:10:22):
like, I don't know when I, like,I was at a point in my life
where I was pretty sure I was gonna die.
Yes. I weighed like 120 lbs.
I was starting to kind of get that grayish color.
Yep and my face was all fucked up.

(01:10:42):
I the week before I went into rehab I took a knife and started
cutting out freckles for my knee.
Well, the crack or either the crack or the heroin I was
getting was laced with PCP. We came to find out.
So it makes. A lot of sense now, but I like

(01:11:04):
the what led me to formally likework Step 1 is like not being
able. I was finally came to a point
where I was like, I don't know what else to do.
I was like, I can't do it. I know that I don't think you
know, and it's like, I like don't always agree with certain
parts of the thing, but I I think an important part which

(01:11:25):
helped me work step one is dude.Gung ho NA Eric was a totally
different dude. Was that we admitted that we
were powerless like and I think if that's lost, if that wasn't
in the step, I don't think I'd be able to work the step.
So I'm very grateful that oh. Yeah, that that one word is very

(01:11:46):
powerful is. There cuz I, I don't think I
like it's like with the God thing, like there's certain
things I'm not gonna be able to get over because like they're
core to me. There are my core.
It's kind of crazy to think people to.
Your core memory just to get it or.
No, not core memory, but core beliefs, core belief, core value
system. You have the No God island.

(01:12:07):
And people, well, it's not that necessarily no God, it's just, I
don't know. And you know I'm.
Just like seeing that like in Inside Out, just animated in
your head and they're like, there's Atheist Island, which is
great. We love Atheist Island.
It's Deist Island. That would be Deist.
But it's like, what's going on over there?

(01:12:28):
Nobody knows. Yeah, nobody knows.
Nobody knows. It's just an island.
It's an island unto itself. It's a silhouette, so we can't
really see what's on the island,you know, but it's there.
So back-to-back to step one. So that's what that's what did
it. You just didn't.
You just said you didn't know. What else to do?
Where like, yeah, dude, I was shooting heroin and smoking

(01:12:49):
crack every day and I ran out ofmoney.
And I was at a point where I waslike, missing work because of my
addiction. And I was running out of drugs.
And I got to a point where I ranout of money and I ran out of
drugs. And that's why I went to rehab.
So and then after that, like that led me to like, I want to

(01:13:12):
get better. And the step, Step 1 was like,
you know, the first step that. Was the begin better?
Yeah. All right.
Coming to our last question of this episode also, I just want
to say I think this is gone. I'm really excited about the
future of this, this whole series.
I really like this a lot. And yeah, occasionally we'll get
some people to, you know, weigh in with us.

(01:13:34):
Or maybe not. Fuck them.
When did I first recognize my addiction as a problem?
Did I try to correct it? If so, how?
If not, why? When did I first recognize?
I was 17. OK.

(01:13:54):
I It was the end of my junior year for summer and I'd been
drinking the entire summer. Me and my friend would usually
go through about 1/5 a night. What were you drinking?
Captains yeah, you know, 1617 year old drink right there.
Best run. So we'd be drinking Captains or?

(01:14:18):
Anybody out? No, Never.
No. I was going to say something.
Never mind. But we, I remember very, very
vividly, it's the first, it's one of the first times I ever
like acknowledged my addiction is like I was by myself.
I was drinking. It was a school night.
Nice you. Know I was playing pool in the

(01:14:38):
basement and I I just. By yourself.
By myself and I just remember like just slamming the stick on
the ground and just being like, you're a fucking fucking
alcoholic piece of shit, you know, like, and just like, like
it was like I, I realized like Icouldn't do anything without

(01:15:00):
drinking, you know, like that was the first time I realized
like in order for me to have fun, I needed to drink.
But my rationale to that was to start smoking more.
So I just became a Stoner instead.
All right. Yeah.

(01:15:21):
I don't know. OK.
Was this just the last date? Using you were like, no yeah,
this might be a problem. Well because I like I said, I
started fun socially, whatever. It wasn't a problem through high
school. I mean I should have realized it
was a problem because I was likesmoking weed everyday but

(01:15:43):
college again didn't think it was a problem because I was
functional. I did you ever?
Play a softball game like Coked Up.
Practice. Yes.
Oh my God, do you? Use crush balls.
Wait, we've talked about this dude.
We. Have.
Sports high miserable is miserable.
The best I hated it. The best like.

(01:16:03):
Dude, I didn't like taking walksout.
And I just like thought it was fun.
It wasn't like that. I needed to do it before I went
to practice. I was like, why not do some coke
before I go to practice? Sounds took a great time.
Well. Everything slows down a little
bit. Won't cook, everything slows.
Everything just felt so much slower, yeah.
Yeah. And like, I went to basketball,

(01:16:23):
like I smoked weed before basketball practice in high
school. My thing is I was like, I was
slower like everything else. See, when I was high, I was
like, everything else was movingsuper fast and I was.
I'll tell you my. Reaction sucked.
I could shoot a basketball high as shit on weed.
I couldn't because my focus was like zeroed in on that basket.
It just felt differently. Driving was amazing.

(01:16:45):
I could. Drive fucked up all day.
But like so I was functional, I had I went to school every day,
high school, college, went to myclasses, had good grades like it
never affected anything that I did.
So I never saw it as a problem. And then if I found if like
there was a time in college whenI was doing heroin and crack and
stuff like that, but I would like just replace it with

(01:17:07):
something else. Like I would recognize like, oh,
this drug is a problem, let's dosomething else.
So it was just continuous replace replacing it.
And it was probably not until like the last year of using like
some people like mentioned it tome and of course, like the
manipulation, like I know like Ican stop if I want to, blah,

(01:17:28):
blah, blah, like knowing full onthat I couldn't.
And it was just like I then it was like this need like every
single day I needed to go out and get somewhere.
It was like The Saturdays and Sundays turned into a Friday,
Saturday, Sunday to Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday to
Mondays and Tuesdays too. And it was so it it took a

(01:17:48):
while. Yeah, mine was very early on,
probably when I was about 15 years old, getting arrested for
the first time at about 2:00 in the morning in the cul-de-sac
where I lived. Like, my house was 30 feet away.
And oh, God, so fucking stupid shit.
And like, I didn't know that I was in a stolen car at the time,

(01:18:11):
but I was, well, he took it fromhis dad, so it wasn't like,
stolen, stolen. But yeah, this kid in that kid
took his dad's car and his dad woke up and like, whatever and
looked outside and he was like, where the fuck is my car?
And reported it stolen. And you know, we're in it
driving around smoking weed likea bunch of fucking idiots and
that like. Is this the time that you took

(01:18:33):
the hit? What are your friends?
No, no, no, that was later. That was later.
That was junior year. No, all three of us got arrested
that night and it like the the thing I didn't mind getting
arrested. Like I was like bummer, like I

(01:18:54):
was like this is a shitty. I, I feel like you're like, John
Benson would be proud. I will not like I was Bender
Bender. I I didn't care and I think that
was like the like I knew like I knew I didn't care and I was
like, I feel like I should care that I just got fucking arrested
and like my parents are picking me up in jail at age 15, but I

(01:19:18):
didn't I didn't give a fuck. I like and like my dad tried
like I remember the drive home and my parents talking at me but
hey, I'm high second. Like secondly, I didn't give a
fuck what they had to say so I was just like all right,
whatever. And they like attempted to
fucking ground me or whatever. Nothing.

(01:19:40):
Nothing stuck. Because family.
Grounded. You they tried, but they were My
mom got home late and so did my dad.
So I, I, I was free reign. I I got off school and I would
go get high because my parents were at fucking work.
What the fuck are they going to do?
They couldn't. It was before like I didn't have
a cell phone at the time. What did?
Your dad do out of curiosity he did a.

(01:20:02):
Variety of fucking jobs like he was an insurance salesman for a
while I because. He was in a cult for a while
too, right? Sort of, kind of.
I don't know. I thought he was.
I thought he like stole a bunch of money and went to a call.
No, no, no. He went to a commune which

(01:20:25):
hippies are pretty much called. Same thing.
Yeah, he stole, yeah, $60,000 from, you know, my mom's bank
account and fucking absconded tobackwoods Tennessee to go to
this hippie commune where they promptly kicked him out after
like six or nine months. And my mom took him back for
whatever fucking reason. But yeah, I, I knew I had a

(01:20:47):
fucking problem early because I was like, I would, I, I was
just, you know, committing a crime, knowing I was commit like
didn't know how bad the crime was.
But the fact that I got, I didn't care, Like I, I didn't
care and I was like, all right, I'm this isn't going to stop me
from doing drugs for even like it might have stopped me for
like 48 hours, but yeah, did I try to correct it?

(01:21:11):
No, cuz fuck everybody. And if not, why not?
Because I, yeah, I, I didn't care.
I was better than my, my parentswould have blamed not me.
It wasn't my problem. It was my dad's problem.
And you know, it was all the parents that had failed me in
the system and like whatever a fucking 15 year old idiot
thinks. But yeah, so we will stop there

(01:21:35):
for this episode and thank all of us for doing a great job.
Great job. So next on our next episode, we
will be tackling powerless and probably just powerlessness and
unmanageability because those are a bit long.
And then around reservations, reservations, surrender and

(01:21:56):
spiritual principles are at the end.
And then moving on. And then we'll go on to Step 2.
But so far, I'm very excited about this.
I thought it went very well. I thought we were, I think we'll
probably jump around more. I think those, those first
formative questions were all very crucial.
So we answered them as to the best of our ability.

(01:22:18):
And yeah, that's what it's a little extra.
Look into your hosts and into the Narcotics Anonymous program.
So everybody, thank you for joining us once again Keep, you
know, tuning in for further information about the NA 12
steps go to all our social mediaoutlets like share subscribe on
Facebook, Instagram, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, join our

(01:22:40):
Patreon, because we do need helpkeeping the mics on as we are
self supporting, but most of all, everybody out there.
Stay safe and stay clean.