April 14, 2025 • 56 mins
In this episode, David O., Carly S., and Eric V. share their experience, strength, and hope.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome back to Podcast Recovery, everyone.
We're your hosts. David O.
Carly S. And Eric V It's getting worse.
Like it's getting worse. David hates it.
I like he hates it. It's too much.
All right, We're we're. Well, what about your beginning?
And welcome back to Podcast Recovery, everyone.
(00:26):
We are you. Right.
So, you know, thank. You, Carly.
Don't ever think it. Just leave Eric alone.
That's fine you. I have to though.
Somebody got to take him down a peg.
Thank you. All right, we are going back to
our second episode of our NA Step Working Guide.
(00:47):
So this will be an entire serieswhere we go one through 12
answering as many questions as we possibly can.
Some of them, you know, we'll skip here and there, but you
know, we're going to give you a comprehensive start on the step
working guide and also an extra glimpse on your hosts.
We did our first episode where the the big topics were the
(01:08):
disease of addiction, denial andhitting bottom, despair and
isolation. And right now we're about to get
into powerlessness. And I'm going to read the first
first quick paragraph of this because.
We are still on step one. We still are on, yes.
Thanks. So we admitted that we were
powerless over our addiction, that our lives have become
unmanageable. Perfect.
Thank you. Thank you.
(01:29):
That's very. Uh huh.
That's important. Good.
Yeah. Good shit.
I did not think about that at all.
That's very good. Thank you.
As addicts, we react to the wordquote UN quote powerless in a
variety of ways. Some of us recognize that a more
accurate description of our situation simply could not exist
and admit our powerless and withpowerlessness with a sense of
(01:49):
relief. Others recoil at the word,
connecting it with weakness or believing it to indicate some
kind of character deficiency. Understanding powerlessness and
how admitting our own powerlessness is essential to
our recovery will help us to getover any negative feelings we
may have about the concept. And we have a dog upstairs
(02:10):
barking. I don't know if you can hear
that, but we can. All right?
So we need to prove our own individual powerlessness to
ourselves on a deep level. First question over what exactly
am I powerless? Oh shit, you skipped a whole
bunch. Yeah, I'm not going to read the
whole the two extra paragraphs unless there's something in
(02:31):
there. Was there something you
highlighted in there, Eric that you'd like would?
Like to Yeah, let's so others recoil at the word connecting it
with weakness or believing it toindicate some kind of character
deficiency. And then the other part here is
we may have tried to abstain from drug use or other
(02:52):
compulsive behaviours, perhaps with some success for a period
of time without a program, only to find that our untreated
addiction eventually takes us right back to where we were
before. And I think something very
important to say about that right there.
And like, I, I, I've done this as well, but I, I still know
people who do this where they'lltake like a week off drinking,
(03:15):
right? And they'll be like, well, now
you know, I'm, I'm great. Look at me.
I January. I yeah, that, that, that sort of
shit, right? Where it's, it's like, OK, sure.
But like the fact that you had to actually consciously think
about it and do it and it says something, doesn't it?
You know, like you, you had to create a month for yourself.
(03:40):
So you know, Yeah, you know. Yep.
No, you're 100% right. All right, over.
So back to my back to the question over what exactly?
Am I powerlessness? Am I powerless?
Are we talking currently or before?
Yes. Both.
All right, who wants to go first?
(04:02):
I'll go fuck it over. What exactly?
Am I, powerless? The list goes on.
I'm powerless over, you know, how Eric decides to introduce
himself at the beginning of a podcast?
That's true. And I can either accept it or I
can't. And right now I can't accept it.
(04:24):
So no, I'm powerless over other people's actions, other people's
thoughts, behaviors. Anything outside myself?
Anything outside of myself, But yeah, but to, to put up like a
(04:45):
little bit of a finer pin on it,yeah.
Like how, how people talk to me.I'm to a degree powerless.
Like I can stand up for myself, I guess, or at least draw
boundaries to I, I guess better hone in on what I think is
(05:06):
acceptable for, for how I'm treated and talked to, but still
in. But beyond that, the, the
person's gonna act the way they're gonna act.
Probably the biggest thing powerlessness is, is people like
I the only thing like let me go to the shortlist.
(05:26):
What am I, what do? What do I have power over my own
actions and how and how I take whatever is going on in the
world or how I'm being treated or what, whatever the scenario
is, how I'm actually going to react to that, like what my
actual physical actions are. That's what I have power over.
(05:48):
Everything else is powerlessness.
Yeah. Dare.
So obviously before coming into recovery, I would say I was
powerless over drugs and alcoholand that there was a compulsive,
(06:09):
obsessive nature to their use. And that I mean that includes
many things like. Well, to interject real quick, I
like, I don't even know necessarily that that's so much
about the drugs that you like until you realize your own own
power in in the obsession and compulsion.
(06:32):
It's really more you're powerless to your obsession and
compulsion. Yes, yes, yes.
So like the obsession and compulsion, like overcame sense,
Yeah. Just like you.
Were saying, for example, we were before we were like before
we recorded another episode, we were talking about the
Craigslist personal section and I think this is a good area
(06:58):
where you know, I'm like, OK, I I'm being lustful, I am horny, I
want to have sex, but this is a terrible idea.
But I am powerless over that feeling of lust and like not
(07:19):
feeling 1. So like I'm powerless over that.
And yeah, that's I, I think that's like, that's an example,
I think besides drugs where, youknow, even though you have good
intent, like it might, it still like overrides.
(07:39):
And it's like, well, I'm going to do this because I need it.
And I'm and I'm glad you broughtit up that way because our first
thoughts and 1st emotions are generally.
Out of our control. Like you're like you're, you're
gonna feel and you're allowed tofeel.
Think about it however you feel.Think about an A rack, right?
(08:00):
A what? An A rack like do do you work
retail? The fuck is an A rack?
It's the rack right by the counter.
OK. It's put there for people to buy
impulsively and compulsive like it's an.
Yeah, OK. OK.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
You put stuff in in those racks and it's the same.
(08:23):
It's the same thing. It's like it's put right there
so that you can grab it. Yeah.
But yeah, like our you're not necessarily in control of your
thoughts at all times or your emotions, but it's it's how we
react to those thoughts and emotions that that is ultimately
(08:43):
good. That's where your power is.
It's. How you end up with a candy bar
at after you leave a conveniencestore and you're like how?
The fuck is this? I mean, yeah.
I don't like the word react wellrespond.
In recovery, I think we learn torespond because at least me, I
was very much reactionary like. It it it.
(09:07):
Yeah, I think all of us were. Yeah.
Like if we're upset, it's like, well, I don't want to be upset.
Like, let's let's go get drunk. Let's let's stop.
Let's, you know, let's nip this thought or be or emotion in the
bud before, you know, we the bud.
God, I just tickle my throat. Yeah, let's let's nip that as
(09:27):
fast as we possibly can by changing that emotion to
whatever manufactured feeling that that we want.
So, yeah. But yeah, that powerless.
Everything I've done, I've done things while acting out on my
addiction that I would never, I would never do when focusing on
(09:48):
recovery. What were they?
Snorting coke off the stomach ofsomeone.
You're in a mood, aren't you? Aren't you, bud?
You're kind of a, you're kind ofgoing there.
Well, you you asked what I wouldn't do, right?
Yeah, but there, there's a levelattacked here, buddy.
(10:11):
There's things I've done, thingsacting out on my addiction that
I would never do when focusing. On my recovery, here's one I,
and this is the one I feel probably the worst about
throughout my addiction is I stole from my cousin.
I stole two bongs from him and Iwas dumb.
(10:32):
I was like really into cocaine. I I sold them and bought more
coke. It was a rough time, but I it
was an action where I felt like just so bad.
And it's something that like I would never ever do.
He'd never steal a bomb, kid. Well.
Never. I wouldn't steal from like my
(10:54):
cousin or anyone really like that.
I didn't. Like if I wasn't if, if, if I
wasn't high or if I wasn't trying to get high.
Like I, I had a mission, like I had a mission to get coke
because I needed coke. I needed it.
It was like it wasn't a one, it was a need.
So like, it made me do things that I, it made me do things I
(11:16):
didn't want to do. Yeah, counter.
Yeah, counter to your, you know,moral, moral, whatever.
For to there's like, there's many things when it came to
cocaine that like I would do terrible things for.
Yeah, I, I I don't know if you can relate to that one, but
cocaine brought out a demon in me.
(11:37):
All right, so probably, yeah, since we're going into the worst
war, you know, the worst of the worst.
Yeah. Things that I've done while
acting out on my addiction, I'verobbed people with a broken gun.
That was your thing around around Catonsville.
Like this guy wanted drugs. He didn't have any money.
(11:58):
He was like, well, I have this broken gun.
And we're like, what? So yeah, he gave us like this
fucking Glock that was fucking broken and damaged and like
wouldn't fire and like we were never going to fix it up or
anything. So it had no bullets and it had
no ability to fire. But me and my fucking roommate
would go hold people and we onlydid it like a handful of times.
I think maybe maybe like 6 or 7,but yeah, like we sort of
(12:23):
thought it was like the like theFight Club thing.
We're like, oh, we're not reallygonna hurt somebody and like we.
Fight Club, Oh my God, you know,you're fucking what was beat,
what was Meatloafs characters. Bob, you're fucking Bob out
there trying to. No, like, remember when they
robbed that like convenience store guy and they're like
Raymond, what do you want to be?Shot in the head, man.
(12:45):
Yes, exactly. But but anyway, like we were as
conscientious as possible. We never stole people's wallets.
Like we would actually just taketheir cash.
We would never take their creditcards or their license.
Either way, it was a piece of shit thing to fucking do that I
knew was fucking wrong. And after the last time we did
it, both of us were like, we, we, for whatever reason, it
(13:05):
really hit us like that time. And we were like, we're, we're
getting rid of this gun. Right.
Were they like, yeah. Can I ask a question, David?
What? Did you hold up men or women?
Men. Only men.
Only men. OK, yeah, never rob women.
That was kind of you. Yeah, yeah, we only, we only
robbed dudes that were just alone by themselves.
Yeah. Invulnerable.
(13:27):
Yeah. I mean, anybody's vulnerable
when you have a fucking gun is ais a piece of shit thing to do.
And like, we tried to do it. Like my rationalization is
terrible. It's terrible.
So yeah, what what things did I do while acting out on my
addiction that I would never do?Everything.
(13:47):
Everything. I wish I would have brought like
the shit that I actually wrote in step one to like look back
and be like, Oh yeah, this is, yeah, this is what I wrote down
then. This is where actually that
would be really interesting. Yeah, I I should actually do
that. I have I have all my.
So do I somewhere, So do I. I'll have to because I.
Typed them all so you. Fucking nerd.
(14:09):
Of course, you nerd. So yeah, I mean, yeah,
Everything the answer is. Everything.
And that goes to the next question.
What things have I done to maintain my addiction that went
completely against all of my beliefs and values?
And so. Stealing that was.
That's my big one. Any anybody out there listening?
Stealing, lying, cheating. A lot of this in like, we're,
(14:30):
we're gonna be brutally honest in here.
Like some of these questions arerepetitive.
Oh yes. And there were times in my step
work where I would be like see question #7 me too.
Like I never wrote that but it would put so much self doubt in
my mind being like didn't I justanswer this?
Am I doing something wrong? I.
Remember, yeah, back in the day you would text me, be like,
(14:53):
didn't I just answer? I'm like.
Yes, I did the same thing David did.
I was like I just answered this.Question yeah, 'cause that's my,
that's what my sponsor told me as well.
He was like sometimes and he waslike even further, there's some
questions that are flat out not going to apply to you.
Yeah, at all. He was like don't try and do
some mental gymnastics or write some bullshit that isn't real.
If it does not like if it's likeif it's a question about sexual
(15:17):
abuse and you have no history ofit, don't try to make something
up. Just say that you not
applicable. Move on, move on.
Like it's better to just be honest with the step work and be
like, you know, sexual abuse is not a part of my story.
I can move past this question instead of being like, oh, well,
(15:38):
one time a girl rejected. No, don't, don't make something
up. Just keep moving on.
And if you genuinely think you've answered that question
before, it's OK to say that. Like if you, if you're like, I,
I feel like I just like, I mean,these questions are very
similar. The things I've done while
acting out on my addictions thatI would never do.
What things have I done to maintain my addiction that were
completely against my beliefs and morals?
(16:00):
To me, it's the same fucking question.
Yeah, it really is. Like I I don't think we need to
answer it a second time. So.
Right. Yeah.
Am I wrong? OK, so we'll move forward.
How does my personality change when I'm acting out on my
addiction? Do I become arrogant,
self-centered, mean tempered, passive to the point where I
can't protect myself? Manipulative.
(16:20):
Whiny. I think I'm a little bit of
passive but also also manipulative.
I could see that with you. I don't know what that means,
but yeah, I can see you and justbe like, no, we should totally
do this. And I'd be like, OK, all right,
it sounds cool. But oh, man, Eric, you were
(16:43):
definitely arrogant. Arrogance.
Arrogance has got to be in there.
Well, with coke, I mean, like, Ibecame a demon.
Like I said, like very, very arrogant, very abrasive.
I was mean tempered. But like, dude, people.
Always told me they were like how are you the only person that
can smoke weed and get angry? Well, no, every every other drug
(17:04):
I'm super chill. I'm really nice, like all of
that. But for some reason with cocaine
I just want to fuck anything and.
That's. True.
Just like you know, I don't know.
It's it's a crazy. I've told you about how cocaine
made me get a boner, right? The boner.
Yeah. I'm like 9090% of the time I
would, I would do coke and I just, I would just get a boner.
(17:26):
I'd be in a room like with dudes, they'd be like, dude, do
you, are you like full torque right now?
I'm like, yeah, I am. Do you want to make something of
it or are we just, could we justcontinue doing what we're doing?
It's like, all right, we'll justdon't let it bring up just be
like KDR, right? Now you're the weird one for
calling it out. Yeah, why are you looking at my
Dick, dude? My Dick dude.
(17:46):
No, I'll dude, my the the one word that I is on here that is
not on here that IA 100% word was belligerent whole like I'm
pretty belligerent as it is dude, especially walking into
the tattoo convention yesterday.I don't know what.
I don't know what set you off, but you were.
Coming set me off and I just I just went on like this 5 minute
(18:10):
tire. Oh, I do.
So Eric, I was talking about parents.
Coming up, I I don't know why itcame up.
I don't know. It came up out of nowhere.
Parents doing what? Parents coming and talking to me
and while picking my son up fromdaycare and I was just like I
fucking hate it. Like some dude was like oh so
you're Magnus is dead. I was like, I don't know who the
fuck you are. You have to make small talk with
(18:31):
those people. Yeah.
Yes, but he got so angry talkingabout it yesterday.
We don't, I'm, we don't have to do that.
I've never talked to. And I, I don't have to, but they
come and talk to me like we'll we'll be there at the same time
you. Don't seem that friendly though.
No, thank you. Like I, I have carefully crafted
(18:53):
this persona and and this visualimage to be like do not talk to
me. I'm.
Approachable. You know, like.
That's what I've been putting off for years.
But like, the thing that's funnyabout that, like in like the
juxtaposition is if you do come and talk to me, I actually am
very nice and respectful and like, I'm not just like an
outward Dick to you. So this dad comes up to me.
(19:16):
He's like, oh, I'm Trent's dad. I'm like, in my mind, I'm like,
I don't know, Trent. I don't know who the fuck you
are. Why are you talking to me?
Oh, your Magnus is dead. Yep.
How do you know that? Well, Trent told him.
Trent told. Him.
Well, Magnus bit Trent last week.
Compared on Magnus bit Trent. Last week bit Trent.
Yes, which is very weird becauseMagnus does not bite at home.
Magnus is a biter. It's the first time it's
(19:38):
happened so I'm not worried. OK.
OK. He's like, Oh yeah.
So I heard Magnus, Magnus bit Trent last week.
I was like, Oh yeah, I heard that.
And like in my mind, I'm like, what did Trent do?
I'm like, what? I'm like, did Magnus have a car?
And Trent was trying to take hiscar, in which case Magnus bid
(20:00):
him. Mind your fucking business,
Trent. Take your Take your hands off
Magnus's car. That's true.
There is, there is. If you're not, if you, if you
nice, if you ask nicely and you're like, hey Magnus, can I
see your car? He will give it to you 99% of
the time, but if you take it from him, he's going to look at
you in a way of like, what are you doing?
(20:21):
That was in my hand. Why are you now?
Why is it now in your hand? So I, I don't know how we got
onto this. Understandable.
Your belligerent. Belligerent.
Yes. My see everybody listening.
That's my belligerence. Don't.
Worry I've got the starting point.
Thank you. Thank you.
I Yeah, I I became verbally belligerent and I I was, I was a
miserable person. Most people would not like me
(20:42):
when I was doing drugs. Next question.
Who must read it? Do I manipulate other people to
maintain my addiction? Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah. Is there another way?
I mean I I literally stayed withmy girlfriend for years because
(21:04):
her family and I like traded drugs to each other.
Like, well, that's not, that's not a manipulation.
That's just a good business tactic.
Well, that that that was it was a matter of convenience.
That's manipulating yourself bud.
But it was like OK so I get fromfrom her I get benzos from her
mom OK I get Adderall from her brothers they sell me weed like
(21:26):
I also. Do it's a quid.
That's a quid pro quo situation.You know, so it's like I got to
keep this one. Around, which is actually my
favorite Latin to use. I use that all the time.
Once I actually figured out, like once I actually like,
learned what it meant, I was like, oh, that's really useful.
Anyway, yeah. How?
Is there another way to maintainyour addiction other than
(21:49):
manipulation? Find out a way to get rid.
Of it is there, is there like a rational way to it's?
Called it's called money. No, but like to not manipulate.
Honesty. Yeah, honesty.
Like exactly. That's the, that's the
antithesis to manipulation, is honesty.
It's like I'm gonna go in the bathroom and do some cocaine.
OK, We're good. All right, Cool.
And like that's that's the opposite and there's not.
(22:11):
Actually running to the store I'm running to buy some more
coke, yeah. And you're like, oh, hey, Carly,
where you going? Oh, I'm.
And then I had to get gas, and then I had to go do this.
And then I had to go do that. Yeah.
Just took longer. Yeah, it just took longer than I
meant it to. Yeah, the only it's the only
way. There is no other way to
maintain your addiction unless you're in some bizarro fucking
(22:34):
world where you literally just tell people like hey I'm going
to go get some meth and then smoke it for the next three days
and not answer my phone. Get a nuts for you.
Do you want some meth? Because honestly, I'm not going
to share it with you, or if I do, I'm only going to give you a
little bit and I'm going to takea lot.
Like what the fuck is happening?I feel like.
(22:57):
Carly and I are having a conversation and you're having
Tourette's Bizarro. What's the next question?
Eric, why don't you go ahead andread it?
Did you not get that reference? Oh man, did you not watch Adult
Swim in? The Do you have the book in
front of you? Yeah, I do.
OK, so we just did the person, how does their personality
(23:17):
change? Then and do I manipulate?
It So have I tried to quit usingand found that I couldn't have.
I quit using on my own and foundthat my life was so painful
without drugs that my abstinencedidn't last very long.
What were these times like? Well, I don't know.
(23:38):
If I actively tried to quit using, I would tell myself that
I was going to quit using. I'm not doing this anymore.
Right. And then I would do it again.
So or like I'd quit using one drug just to go on to the next.
Yeah, but like there was times where I did have to quit using
(23:59):
like in college for sports. My shit was usually for
probation. My, I think it was my senior
year they implemented in like inhouse drug testing where we
could get drug tested any time of the year.
Salisbury, yeah. Dicks.
Yeah, so come. On.
So. I just have to take a test to
tell you I'm doing. Drugs.
So I was able to maintain that and I was happy because I did
(24:22):
get drug tested. So I was like, all right, it
wasn't for nothing. OK, that.
Makes sense? But I wouldn't say it was like,
I never, it wasn't painful at that time, but like later on it
was, yeah, it was, oh, I'm goingto quit using or I have to stop,
quit like I have to quit using. And I just told myself that.
But then the next day it was thesame shit over and over again.
(24:44):
Yeah. So when I was on probation, that
was the only time, like for the first times.
The first couple times on probation I would stop doing
drugs, but like I would still drink.
Yeah. 'Cause they wouldn't test for
alcohol. So it, it, it was just, you
know, a switcheroo. Like it was just, oh, well, I
can't smoke weed. Like, was I miserable and like,
(25:05):
wanted to smoke weed? Yeah, for sure.
But I was just like, well, at least I can get fucked up
somehow. Yeah.
See, yeah, that's but as far as trying to quit by myself, fuck
no, I never tried. I.
Even though I knew had a problemand going well, going to the
(25:27):
point of like life was too painful without drugs.
Yes, that was very much the casefor me because like my, my, you
know, my brain was just a cobwebof bullshit from my life that I
was like, I don't want to, I don't want to deal with any of
that. So yeah, yeah, my brain and life
(25:49):
and emotions were very painful. So I was like, drugs is the only
way to cope with us. So I mean, I think mine is like,
the easiest one for me to remember is cigarettes and how
many times I would throw away, like half a pack of cigarettes,
right? Like the night, like I'm like
going to sleep. I'm like, this is my last
(26:09):
cigarette. I'm like, I break the, like the
rest of the pack in half. You know, you flush it.
Yeah, I've done that. And then the next morning I wake
up. OK.
So yeah, we're talking about store.
And buy a new I'm glad. You broke that, Yeah.
And that fucking habit happened.Oh my God.
So many times, yeah, with with cigarettes it took for I mean,
(26:32):
yeah. Years and years and years and
years of me looking in the mirror being like this is the
last fucking time. And I, yeah, I smoked
consistently for 16 years. I I smoked.
God, that's bad. For 12.
For 12 years. Yeah, no.
And. Oh dude, I was.
(26:53):
So fucking angry every time I tried to quit smoking
cigarettes. I was just kidding.
I my temper was, you know, like there's my fuse.
There's an uncomfortability in those first three days that's
like undescribable. Yeah, you know, Yeah, yeah,
because the yeah, it it. Nicotine's a motherfucker.
Nicotine sucks, dude. And honestly, I like my body has
(27:16):
not felt right since. Not smoking?
Well, now you've smoked for. 16 years like my like.
Well, honestly, you've been smoking longer than that, right?
Like on like. Yes, but like consistent like I
was a pack a day smoker as of 19before that I was still like you
know, I was smoking when I couldand you all the way back till
like age 11 day. Right.
(27:38):
Some like. Some days, yes.
Oh yeah, if we had a bonfire I'msmoking 2 packs.
Because you I've seen you like. Dude, I would have fucking.
Charged through cigarettes. Dude, I had a fucking problem.
You and Brad. Dude, we go.
Dude I swear to God me and Brad had an unspoken competition.
It's 15 minutes. You guys are on cigarette three.
Like slow your roll. Like I you don't need it.
(28:01):
Like you literally don't need that nicotine right now.
But it did. How has my addiction caused me
to hurt myself or others? It's like all these questions
are like, count it off like. Yeah.
When do you want me to stop talking?
(28:24):
Like which? Which time?
Yeah dude fucking my addiction caused me to fucking huff duster
for a month. EW, that was the worst.
I mean I did nitrous but EW. Duster dude, I and the last time
(28:45):
it was coming like the can was coming up to my lips, I was
literally like I fucking hate myself.
This is gosh, I'm like this is disgusting and I like I was just
I just threw it away. I was like, I am this is fucking
horrible. Shout out to Allison out there
from the episode of InterventionI.
Can see sunshine. What was she huffing Duster?
(29:09):
Oh my God, season 1 one of the best.
Episodes ever loved that one of the.
Best one of the best episodes. Dude, I used to.
She used to judge the shit out of people, right?
I used. To sit there highest fuck and
watch it like my life's not as bad as you ever saw.
Dude I'd always be getting high,usually on oxy and then be like
oh they're like smoking fucking black tar, I'm fine.
(29:30):
Yeah, these guys are losers. Fucking assholes.
Shameless was also one that I watched while I was getting
high. Watch that.
Show I mean. I mean, me too.
I was like, my life is a lot better than theirs.
I mean, to be fair, though, I was living in a car for several
years, so I didn't exactly have,you know, TVTV.
(29:50):
All right, we're on to unmanageability.
How was your wait? How's your addiction hurt?
Hurt yourself and others. I mean, obviously like the
physical harm we just caused to like put it.
I mean, Garrett talked about it last night, which was probably
the most he'd pulled the veil down that I've ever heard.
Like he was talking about her when she used to do coke and
like, he would just go out and get crabs just to make himself
(30:12):
feel better. And I was like.
Oh. My God, yeah, he had never said
that before. No, what a Baltimore thing.
To do he would just, he would, he would come, he said he would
just eat crabs and then he wouldgo to sleep because at that
point he had to like work on Saturday morning.
So he would just get crabs on a Friday night and eat them and
he'd wake up on Saturday morning.
Stop. Stop, he would.
(30:32):
Still be awake playing? Video Did he go to ships?
No, he likes craving crabs. But the fact that, yeah, I had
never heard of like, you know, pull the curtain back like that
before, and I was like, oh, shit, I'm like this.
Is right. Wow.
Yeah. So I don't know, I'm sure that
there's a lot of pain that I called caused others, but.
(30:54):
I want, wait, hold on. Can I can, can we Fast forward a
little bit? Have you made amends to Garrett?
No. Have you thought about it?
No, OK, I mean. I know you didn't get that to
get that part, Yeah. Living in a men's every single
fucking day. The things I do for that man.
(31:15):
Touché point. Yep, absolutely.
You're 100% right. You do not owe him in a men's.
No, I do definitely living. In a men's, which is like which
is better? That's better.
Than but I mean, even early on in recovery, like he made a
comment and was just like, this is like it's night and day with
how you are now and how you werebefore.
(31:36):
Nice. Like, and that was like very
early on in my recovery. So like, yeah, there's a lot of
harm done, but there's a lot of people that like my family and I
don't really talk about it. Occasionally I'll get the I'm
really proud of you and that's just like it.
Yeah, I got. I got that.
Last. But we don't.
We don't talk about it. Did you ever like say you
(31:57):
haven't done anything like with your sisters, like formally or
anything? No.
You ever thought about it? No, not really.
Honestly, our relationship now is, I mean, speaks for itself of
how great it is. But to like, there were so many
resentments that I had against them that I don't know, but
(32:18):
that, yeah, we're not there. I wish I was.
Honestly, I wish I was closer with Melissa.
I feel like I would like Melissa.
Melissa's pretty fucking awesome.
Melissa, she's pretty cool. And I didn't realize we were the
exact. We were both 87, so that's
pretty cool. Unmanageability.
Who wants to take those one? I can read it.
Not the whole thing. Are we reading?
Yeah. Read your important parts there,
Yeah. I don't have important.
(32:39):
Parts OK. Read the first, Read the first
paragraph all. Right.
So unmanageability. The first step, asks us to admit
two things. One, that we were powerless over
our addiction, and two, that ourlives had become that our lives
have. Become manageable well that's
true because yeah, they. Actually, we would be hard
(33:00):
pressed to admit one and not theother.
Our unmanageability is the outward evidence of our
powerlessness. There are two general types of
unmanageability. Outward unmanageability, the
kind that you can see can be seen by others, an inner or
personal unmanageability. What does unmanageability mean
(33:20):
to you? This was actually, I remember
this, I remember this reading this for the first time, the
difference between outward and inward unmanageability because I
had no, I had no concept of inward unmanageability because I
(33:44):
had, you know, either run away from anything internal or just
numbed it out for so long that I, I had no relationship with
myself or with my thoughts or with my emotions.
So the out I was, I was very much focused coming into
recovery on the outward of manageability because it says,
like right here, it says often unidentified as arrests, job
(34:08):
losses and family problems. Some of our members are being
incarcerated. Some of us can't, can't maintain
a relationship. Some of us are cut off from our
families. Bingo, check, check, check.
All three of those coming into recovery, I had just gotten out
of jail. I couldn't hold a fucking job
and my sister and would no longer talk to me or let me see
(34:29):
my nieces. I had all three fucking checked
off so early in the step work. I was like, OK, I fucking belong
here because this is. And I really felt like I was
like, OK, this is, this is speaking to me.
This is, this is telling my fucking story.
But I was focused on that outward unmanageability and then
inward unmanageability. You know, we may, we may believe
(34:50):
that the world revolves around us, not that it should, but that
it does. And you know, emotional
volatility is often one of the most obvious ways we can
identify personal unmanageability.
I, I didn't know that that was part of like how unmanageable my
life was. And it absolutely was.
So we like I had a lot of work to do in order to just like get
(35:12):
to that point of admitting that I had in order on manageability.
I had never felt much of the outward unmanageability until
the very like end. Like yeah, there was family
problems, but it wasn't caused because of me.
Do you think that wasn't a thing?
And but like and then it was therisk of that outward it
(35:34):
unmanageability of possibly losing my job, but I had a lot
of personal or inner because. You were actually outwardly very
successful. Both of you were.
Both of you were very outwardly successful.
So like that I think. Was me?
Not so much. Again, part of the reason why it
was so hard to identify as an addict because I wasn't losing
(35:56):
anything on the outside, but like I was dead on the inside,
like fully dead. And the there's a sentence in
here, we may believe that the responsibilities the average
person takes on as a matter of course are just too large a
burden for us to bear. And like that's, I felt that,
(36:17):
yeah, so much of the time. Yeah, especially at the end of
your story where, like, you knoweverything.
Your world. Yeah.
Yeah, like, I honestly felt likeI had to be superwoman.
Like, obviously probably nobody else really thought that but me,
right? But that was part of what drove
me to, like, keep pushing by like, yeah, I have so much
(36:38):
responsibility. I have to do cocaine to stay
awake all the time. Have you seen Encanto?
Yes, I love Encanto. Tell me you're not.
I haven't, I've only watched it once and I haven't seen it in a
while. Oh, so the Louisa the strong
sister like her. Song, OH.
I love that song. First, oh, first time I saw it,
(36:58):
I was like, Oh my God. So many other songs in Canto are
great. But yeah, she always felt like
she had to hold on to the world and order to keep things
together. She always had to be the strong.
One yeah and I still sometimes feel that or like that on myself
I. Mean, that's just that.
That's Carly. Carly always has to be the
(37:19):
strong one. And I know that about you, which
I love. I like, I love.
And I'm also like very sad aboutit.
So I'm like, you don't, you don't have to do that.
And you're and but see, that's the fucked up part of our minds
is you know that, Like you know that you don't have to hold on
to the world. But then the other part of your
fucking brain says, yeah, you doif you don't, because if you
(37:40):
don't, everything's going to collapse.
Everything's going to fucking fall apart.
What about you, Eric? Outward and inward and
unmanageability. Well, I'm going to say this is a
different way, actually. So I'm going to talk about how
unmanageability has changed for me kind of over time because
like this, this doesn't mean thesame thing that it meant to me
when I was 20 and it. Shouldn't, Yeah.
(38:00):
So like when I was 24, like, my unmanageability was like, I, I
can literally not stop doing drugs.
Yeah. Like, literally like.
I mean, if that was still the case 12 years from 12 years in,
it's like, I mean, some people it is anyway.
I'm sorry. Yeah, I mean like, but that was,
that was like that was the unmanageability was like I, I
(38:24):
and there and like there were tricks to it too, like where I
was like, well, I can control this and I can control that and
I could, I mean I could control it.
So like, but I think as it changes, like what it becomes is
like, it's not really on like the hard part about the
unmanageability and what it saysis like for a lot of people,
(38:45):
it's like, OK, I do drugs, I lose everything.
I become, you know, XX like, youknow, and you, you kind of just
said like, oh, you, you know, you guys were successful, right?
Like in a, you know. Quote UN quote.
Quote UN quote like so when I came back at 27 into the rooms,
(39:06):
that was really, it was this question was impossible for me
to answer because it was like what?
Like how are you know what is unmanageable for you?
And it's like, well, I just bought a house.
Yeah, you know, and it's like I have like.
I have a career. I have a career.
I have like this. I have XXXXX.
And yeah, I have a degree. It's like I've made this
(39:28):
decision. To I have a four O 1 Ki am not I
am not destitute. Well, it's like, it's like I've
made a decision to come back into recovery to do this work.
And, and, and, and it's even evolved since then where it's
like, what does unmanageability mean to me?
While I'm more in, you know, I'mless into an abstinence based
program and more into a moderation based program because
(39:51):
then you're thinking more of bottom lines.
And. Manageability and like, what is
the bottom line compared to likeyou know, how far are you
willing to take something to before it becomes unmanageable?
Yeah. Which is like, it gets a fine
line and you really have to be very, very conscious of it.
(40:11):
Oh, yeah, yeah. Vigilance has to be, you know,
paramount at all times. All right, That was it.
That was it. Great answers.
Great answers. Well done. 505 hundred points to
Gryffindor all around. Are you Gryffindor?
You're Gryffindor. I think, I think if we were, if
we were being honest, like I think we'd all be like more
(40:34):
collectively Ravenclaw. OK, can we digress for just a
second? Is it bullshit that like you can
never change the like, come on, at age 11, like you don't go
through a couple years and like in the then at 13 or 14, you're
like, I'm I don't, I don't, I'm not so much a Hufflepuff.
Anymore but I think the house. Shapes you?
(40:56):
Yeah, the house does shape you too.
Yeah, so. But aren't there some like like
Snape? Like yes, he was a Slytherin.
But really not. Not all Slytherins are bad.
Yeah, but when you look at like what he did, you're like, oh,
that's Gryffindor shit. Well yeah, that's totally
Gryffindor shit, but again, not all Slytherins are bad.
(41:17):
Or or is just the sorting hat just so fucking like magical and
like all seeing that it like knows that like him being a
slither and has to be a part of the story in order for him to,
you know, be able to do what he.Did is omnipresent?
I guess it's. Omnipresent.
I guess it's like. God, it knows.
It knows. It knows now.
It knows yesterday. It knows tomorrow.
(41:38):
And also, one thing I thought ofwhile you were talking about
that, Eric, another Harry Potterreference, is that
unmanageability and the disease of addiction a little bit is a
fucking boggart. You know it's a shapeshift.
So what's your boggart? Right now, yeah.
I mean redheads I. I think lust would be my boggart
(42:07):
right now. Lust is definitely a boggart for
me right now. Yeah, like, but also like the
future. The future is very much
something that like I'm I'm tenuously struggling with.
So yeah, that would that would kind of be, you know, the
manifestation or the OR the, the, the, the, it would be the
(42:29):
form of the monster. But I also like thinking about
that it it's very apropos because like just depending how
or where we are in our lives, how that monster is going to
manifest. What's your bogger, Carly?
I don't know. Shoes.
(42:50):
No giant pair of shoes, No. To being alone.
No, I love being alone. But you don't like being left
out. I don't like being left out, but
I love being alone. Like I love to make it's my
(43:13):
active choice to be alone. Yes, but when?
Yeah. When I'm not included, that's
hurtful. Yeah, yeah.
So is your, is your bogger then like dis interest in you?
I guess it yeah, you would have to be just, I don't know, just.
(43:34):
Interest in Carly from others. Sure.
OK, we'll go with that. Sure.
Somebody read the next question,I'm going to grab Pellegrino.
Have I ever been arrested or hadlegal trouble as a result of my
addiction? No, that's a no.
I so before wait, that's not thewhole.
Question Have I ever done anything that I could have been
(43:56):
arrested for? If only I recall?
Sure. And what have those things been?
Cocaine. So wait, before we get into
David and I who have been arrested.
Carly, what is the worst thing you have done?
Sorry, trigger for the Alcoholics.
That would have gotten you arrested.
That was rude. I'm sorry.
That was funny. Though I don't, I don't think
(44:17):
there's like a worst. I think it's just basic like.
You're terrible. Nike story doing the drugs Well,
that wasn't even illegal. I mean defrauding people out of
money, technically. Sure.
Oh my God, when you put it like that.
Cancers that I forgot. Yeah.
Holy shit that's like seventh level of hell stuff, Carly.
(44:38):
Yeah, but I don't think it was like something I would have been
arrested for. No, it's just.
Morally like. Jesus.
Jeez. No, I wasn't.
See, I wasn't big on like stealing or vandalizing or doing
any of that shit. I just like.
Degenerate. Like did right?
I just. Drank and did drugs and drove my
(45:01):
car and so that would have been.Yeah.
Like. Duis is probably the most
readily, yeah. Duis.
For or like. Duis in possession was.
Just or the amount of times thatI should have probably gotten
pulled over because I like smoking and driving like.
That was, but you were on the burn run roads.
You're fine. Yeah.
(45:21):
Except there was one time a cop car pulled out behind us and I
thought my life was over. Yeah, we always, always.
I still think my life is over when I fucking cop is behind.
Me dude I ate an entire blunt once.
I just ate it. But he wasn't.
He pulled out of the neighborhood on a college.
College Ave. Yeah, but we went right on to
(45:44):
what was that Bonnie branch or whatever, and he went left.
So we were good. Yeah, was it Howard County cop?
Yeah. Oh, you're in trouble.
Yeah, that, that. And I've also gotten stopped
like we were trying to. I was trying to pick up drugs
from someone in Howard County, and they told us to pull into a
parking lot and there were cops in that parking lot.
So I turned around and pulled out and like went down the road
(46:07):
road and pulled some in somewhere else.
And they must have thought we look sketchy and followed us and
then like, pulled in behind my car, but I had nothing on me.
So they were like, what are you doing?
I was like, I'm trying to like find, like I'm trying to go to
my friend's house. I've never been there before.
Like, I lost. And obviously it was a bullshit
(46:29):
story. He probably didn't believe me.
But our car didn't smell like I had nothing on me.
And it was just like, get out ofhere.
That was one thing I figured outlater is like, yeah, doing shit
in public places is sketchy. But like when you're in that
scenario where you like, like pull into a Barnes and Noble and
there's a bunch of cops, get outand go into Barnes and Noble.
(46:50):
Yeah, like just always, you always make yeah.
Get out. Just get out and look like
you're just going about. You're like, Oh yeah, I'm
meeting in the the parking lot of a fucking Safeway.
Well, there's a cop here. I'm going grocery shopping.
Yeah, but I don't even know whattime it was.
Yeah, like it was later. I don't know if the stores were
open. Yeah.
And why whoever it was told us to pull into it'd?
(47:11):
Be funny if you were just all zooted on coke and, you know,
like Barnes and Noble is clearlyclosed and they're like, what
are you doing here? I just really needed a magazine
officer like I was. I was like, I weren't.
A. This was when I was in high
school, so. OK, Yeah.
So, all right, Eric, what do youwant to take the arrested in
legal trouble? So I've been arrested once if it
(47:34):
like you. Badass.
Besides getting like whatever like the drinking citations.
And. Like trespassing charges.
I did get an alcohol citation incollege, but.
I had a that's. Still on your record?
My trespassing is still on my record too, I trust.
Yeah, the fucking governor has to get rid of that shit.
My sister bought us the alcohol.But I got arrested in Howard
(47:57):
County. Yeah, right across from the
Enchanted Forest. I had just bought some coke from
this dude from Bippy's that dudeand that dude's dead today, POD
Ed. And just a reminder, you know,
(48:18):
and then. As long as we don't go down that
death hole again. Yeah.
No, no, we've moved on. We're continuing.
Now in the lost hole. So that sounded bad.
So now I'm going to go into yourlost hole, but the fucking so I
like this, this guy. We were making a trade I met.
So I was working at Sam Goody atthe time and like working at Sam
(48:40):
Goody People. Would tell me you're old without
telling me you're old. Sometimes.
Oh yeah, there sometimes. I know what Sam Goody is.
Sometimes people would just giveus drugs, like at the counter,
they'd be like, yeah, here's like a bag of weed if you guys
are interested. And it's like, oh, cool, thanks,
man. So I met this guy who was
essentially like, he's like, I'minterested.
He was like, I'm essentially like a pharmacist and blah blah,
(49:01):
blah, and like I can get you anytype of pill and I was like
you're useful. So I was going to trade like
like this guy weed from this onedealer who I just bought coke
from to then. Trade dude I did that so many
times. And then I did that so many
times to the other dealer. Yep.
And like luckily I left the cokewith my dealer and I was like OK
(49:23):
I'll get the rest of this when Icome back because I had a busted
tail light. Got.
Pulled over immediately as I pulled out and they they were
just like pigs and shit man there were so many of them.
Like I got charged with distribution, 4 counts of
possession and four counts of paraphernalia.
(49:43):
How can you get, I don't know. That's what I've never
understood. Like I'm one person, how can you
get me 4 counts of possession? Well, I had four different
drugs. Does that.
Make sense? Yeah, there you go.
Scratch that, they took, they, they cut it down to just
district, they cut it down to just possession and they got rid
of all the other charges. But yeah, that was the only time
(50:05):
I've ever been arrested. And I had to go to Columbia
Addiction Center like everyone else does in Howard County.
And, you know, it was six monthsof dry or seven, nine months of
like being dry, essentially. But yeah.
Do we have time for David's arrest record?
I I mean what, what can we just,can we have the best 1I?
(50:27):
Guess. Or can they be condensed?
Like how many times were you arrested on possession?
11 times. All 11 possession.
Everyone was a possession charge, yeah.
Was there anything else? I did get a fireworks citation,
but that was a. Citation.
But was there distribution or like intent to sell?
(50:50):
Like Nope, just possession, no. How are you that bad at like?
I was reckless, really. Yes.
Yes, dude. You're like Jane Silent Bob
smoking out in front of the store or something.
Three of them were before I was 18, so those ones got wiped away
(51:12):
because that was a minor. So technically only eight in a
matter of seven years. So that's really bad.
Yeah. So I had, yeah, I had, I had
more charges than I did years using as an adult technically.
The one in Pennsylvania, too, was just possession.
Yeah, Yep. They wanted to get me for
(51:35):
distribution, but they had, I didn't have any Baggies, I
didn't have a scale. I I was and they were like, this
is all for you. I was like.
Yep. How much was it?
An ounce. Of.
An ounce OK an. Oz and I so I actually had just
gotten a root canal done. So I had oxys on me too, but I
had a prescription. I had the actual like I had
(51:56):
gotten the root canal the day before.
So I actually had the the prescription with me and I was
like, dude, I was like, you can look in my mouth because he was
like, you look fucked up. I was like, I just got a fucking
root canal done, dude, and I waslike, here's the script from
then. He was like it may called the
doctor like this guy just get itall checked out.
So they they couldn't get me forthe the oxys and all And dude,
(52:19):
they were like, where's the heroin?
I was like, what do you mean? Where's the fucking heroin?
What are you talking about? They were like, this is the
heroin highway. Didn't you know that?
And I was like, no, I was like, yeah, I totally knew that, but I
didn't do heroin. And then they they said the
rudest thing that I've ever beenfucking said to me ever.
They were like, well, you have the heroin body.
I was like, what the fuck does that mean?
It's not rude. That is very rude.
(52:41):
I, I, I think that's a compliment.
That means that you have been. What I was skin and bones.
It was terrible. I looked.
Awful. No, I looked awful and they knew
it. And we've.
Talked about this the heroin addicts usually are the ones who
look good when in a. Heroin chic.
It was terrible. It was rude.
It was rude. How young I look.
It was rude. I was doing cocaine, oxys and
(53:03):
and you know, weed and alcohol and whatever hallucinogens I
could do It's rude. I'm not a heroin addict.
See. Yeah, those those are my last
two. I did 15 days in jail between
Howard County and Pennsylvania and Philly and it it was awful.
It was fucking miserable. What's that?
(53:25):
Have I ever done anything that Icould have been arrested?
We don't. Have time for that?
Yeah, we don't have time for that.
Yes, I did Big crimes. I I do not want to talk about
them. I will not incriminate myself on
those. Let.
Me think about one of mine that I did that is like not.
With Lord, what is? Happening this afternoon
upstairs. Well, we're gonna, we're gonna
probably shut it down, I think now, now.
(53:46):
Well, yeah, on this part of on, we'll do the rest of on
manageability. OK, we'll do the other.
We're already at an hour, dude. Surprisingly, yeah.
So we're not going to go into more on manageability.
No, we're going to do that when we come back.
All right, all right, all right.Yeah, Yeah.
Wait, let me see man, a lot of these are fucking we'll.
(54:10):
Come, we'll come back to them. Yeah, the next one.
All right. I like this.
This is really fun. Oh, it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, I hope you. Guys, so we only got through
2469 questions. The fuck's wrong with us?
We went on a lot of YEAH, there was a lot of digression.
And we're, yeah, we're, we're answering these thoroughly.
Like, yeah, we did. We did do we did go a little bit
(54:32):
more thorough into these ones. And that's what you're supposed
to do when you go through the steps.
You don't microwave them, you know, make sure you, you get in
there and, and, and like, it's like a pot roast, slow roast
that shit. You know, you had it and then
you just kept going and. You.
Yeah, I think this is a good time to yeah, to wrap it.
Up. Yeah, you said don't microwave
them. And yeah, that was good.
All right, so everybody, thank you for joining us.
(54:54):
Apparently, we have a three-yearold making a big noise upstairs.
So thank you for joining us onceagain on our second episode on
the 12 steps of Narcotics Anonymous.
We are still in step one. We'll be coming back with
unmanageability next time. So TuneIn, same bat time, same
bat channel. That's a great reference.
(55:16):
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go to our merch page and buy some shit because we need help
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have a Patreon that you can join.
So most importantly, everybody out there.
Stay safe and stay clean. Very nice.
Welcome back to Podcast Recovery, everyone.
We're your hosts. David O.
Carly S. And Eric V It's getting worse.
Like it's getting worse. David hates it.
I like he hates it. It's too much.
All right, We're we're. Well, what about your beginning?
And welcome back to Podcast Recovery, everyone.
(00:26):
We are you. Right.
So, you know, thank. You, Carly.
Don't ever think it. Just leave Eric alone.
That's fine you. I have to though.
Somebody got to take him down a peg.
Thank you. All right, we are going back to
our second episode of our NA Step Working Guide.
(00:47):
So this will be an entire serieswhere we go one through 12
answering as many questions as we possibly can.
Some of them, you know, we'll skip here and there, but you
know, we're going to give you a comprehensive start on the step
working guide and also an extra glimpse on your hosts.
We did our first episode where the the big topics were the
(01:08):
disease of addiction, denial andhitting bottom, despair and
isolation. And right now we're about to get
into powerlessness. And I'm going to read the first
first quick paragraph of this because.
We are still on step one. We still are on, yes.
Thanks. So we admitted that we were
powerless over our addiction, that our lives have become
unmanageable. Perfect.
Thank you. Thank you.
(01:29):
That's very. Uh huh.
That's important. Good.
Yeah. Good shit.
I did not think about that at all.
That's very good. Thank you.
As addicts, we react to the wordquote UN quote powerless in a
variety of ways. Some of us recognize that a more
accurate description of our situation simply could not exist
and admit our powerless and withpowerlessness with a sense of
(01:49):
relief. Others recoil at the word,
connecting it with weakness or believing it to indicate some
kind of character deficiency. Understanding powerlessness and
how admitting our own powerlessness is essential to
our recovery will help us to getover any negative feelings we
may have about the concept. And we have a dog upstairs
(02:10):
barking. I don't know if you can hear
that, but we can. All right?
So we need to prove our own individual powerlessness to
ourselves on a deep level. First question over what exactly
am I powerless? Oh shit, you skipped a whole
bunch. Yeah, I'm not going to read the
whole the two extra paragraphs unless there's something in
(02:31):
there. Was there something you
highlighted in there, Eric that you'd like would?
Like to Yeah, let's so others recoil at the word connecting it
with weakness or believing it toindicate some kind of character
deficiency. And then the other part here is
we may have tried to abstain from drug use or other
(02:52):
compulsive behaviours, perhaps with some success for a period
of time without a program, only to find that our untreated
addiction eventually takes us right back to where we were
before. And I think something very
important to say about that right there.
And like, I, I, I've done this as well, but I, I still know
people who do this where they'lltake like a week off drinking,
(03:15):
right? And they'll be like, well, now
you know, I'm, I'm great. Look at me.
I January. I yeah, that, that, that sort of
shit, right? Where it's, it's like, OK, sure.
But like the fact that you had to actually consciously think
about it and do it and it says something, doesn't it?
You know, like you, you had to create a month for yourself.
(03:40):
So you know, Yeah, you know. Yep.
No, you're 100% right. All right, over.
So back to my back to the question over what exactly?
Am I powerlessness? Am I powerless?
Are we talking currently or before?
Yes. Both.
All right, who wants to go first?
(04:02):
I'll go fuck it over. What exactly?
Am I, powerless? The list goes on.
I'm powerless over, you know, how Eric decides to introduce
himself at the beginning of a podcast?
That's true. And I can either accept it or I
can't. And right now I can't accept it.
(04:24):
So no, I'm powerless over other people's actions, other people's
thoughts, behaviors. Anything outside myself?
Anything outside of myself, But yeah, but to, to put up like a
(04:45):
little bit of a finer pin on it,yeah.
Like how, how people talk to me.I'm to a degree powerless.
Like I can stand up for myself, I guess, or at least draw
boundaries to I, I guess better hone in on what I think is
(05:06):
acceptable for, for how I'm treated and talked to, but still
in. But beyond that, the, the
person's gonna act the way they're gonna act.
Probably the biggest thing powerlessness is, is people like
I the only thing like let me go to the shortlist.
(05:26):
What am I, what do? What do I have power over my own
actions and how and how I take whatever is going on in the
world or how I'm being treated or what, whatever the scenario
is, how I'm actually going to react to that, like what my
actual physical actions are. That's what I have power over.
(05:48):
Everything else is powerlessness.
Yeah. Dare.
So obviously before coming into recovery, I would say I was
powerless over drugs and alcoholand that there was a compulsive,
(06:09):
obsessive nature to their use. And that I mean that includes
many things like. Well, to interject real quick, I
like, I don't even know necessarily that that's so much
about the drugs that you like until you realize your own own
power in in the obsession and compulsion.
(06:32):
It's really more you're powerless to your obsession and
compulsion. Yes, yes, yes.
So like the obsession and compulsion, like overcame sense,
Yeah. Just like you.
Were saying, for example, we were before we were like before
we recorded another episode, we were talking about the
Craigslist personal section and I think this is a good area
(06:58):
where you know, I'm like, OK, I I'm being lustful, I am horny, I
want to have sex, but this is a terrible idea.
But I am powerless over that feeling of lust and like not
(07:19):
feeling 1. So like I'm powerless over that.
And yeah, that's I, I think that's like, that's an example,
I think besides drugs where, youknow, even though you have good
intent, like it might, it still like overrides.
(07:39):
And it's like, well, I'm going to do this because I need it.
And I'm and I'm glad you broughtit up that way because our first
thoughts and 1st emotions are generally.
Out of our control. Like you're like you're, you're
gonna feel and you're allowed tofeel.
Think about it however you feel.Think about an A rack, right?
(08:00):
A what? An A rack like do do you work
retail? The fuck is an A rack?
It's the rack right by the counter.
OK. It's put there for people to buy
impulsively and compulsive like it's an.
Yeah, OK. OK.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
You put stuff in in those racks and it's the same.
(08:23):
It's the same thing. It's like it's put right there
so that you can grab it. Yeah.
But yeah, like our you're not necessarily in control of your
thoughts at all times or your emotions, but it's it's how we
react to those thoughts and emotions that that is ultimately
(08:43):
good. That's where your power is.
It's. How you end up with a candy bar
at after you leave a conveniencestore and you're like how?
The fuck is this? I mean, yeah.
I don't like the word react wellrespond.
In recovery, I think we learn torespond because at least me, I
was very much reactionary like. It it it.
(09:07):
Yeah, I think all of us were. Yeah.
Like if we're upset, it's like, well, I don't want to be upset.
Like, let's let's go get drunk. Let's let's stop.
Let's, you know, let's nip this thought or be or emotion in the
bud before, you know, we the bud.
God, I just tickle my throat. Yeah, let's let's nip that as
(09:27):
fast as we possibly can by changing that emotion to
whatever manufactured feeling that that we want.
So, yeah. But yeah, that powerless.
Everything I've done, I've done things while acting out on my
addiction that I would never, I would never do when focusing on
(09:48):
recovery. What were they?
Snorting coke off the stomach ofsomeone.
You're in a mood, aren't you? Aren't you, bud?
You're kind of a, you're kind ofgoing there.
Well, you you asked what I wouldn't do, right?
Yeah, but there, there's a levelattacked here, buddy.
(10:11):
There's things I've done, thingsacting out on my addiction that
I would never do when focusing. On my recovery, here's one I,
and this is the one I feel probably the worst about
throughout my addiction is I stole from my cousin.
I stole two bongs from him and Iwas dumb.
(10:32):
I was like really into cocaine. I I sold them and bought more
coke. It was a rough time, but I it
was an action where I felt like just so bad.
And it's something that like I would never ever do.
He'd never steal a bomb, kid. Well.
Never. I wouldn't steal from like my
(10:54):
cousin or anyone really like that.
I didn't. Like if I wasn't if, if, if I
wasn't high or if I wasn't trying to get high.
Like I, I had a mission, like I had a mission to get coke
because I needed coke. I needed it.
It was like it wasn't a one, it was a need.
So like, it made me do things that I, it made me do things I
(11:16):
didn't want to do. Yeah, counter.
Yeah, counter to your, you know,moral, moral, whatever.
For to there's like, there's many things when it came to
cocaine that like I would do terrible things for.
Yeah, I, I I don't know if you can relate to that one, but
cocaine brought out a demon in me.
(11:37):
All right, so probably, yeah, since we're going into the worst
war, you know, the worst of the worst.
Yeah. Things that I've done while
acting out on my addiction, I'verobbed people with a broken gun.
That was your thing around around Catonsville.
Like this guy wanted drugs. He didn't have any money.
(11:58):
He was like, well, I have this broken gun.
And we're like, what? So yeah, he gave us like this
fucking Glock that was fucking broken and damaged and like
wouldn't fire and like we were never going to fix it up or
anything. So it had no bullets and it had
no ability to fire. But me and my fucking roommate
would go hold people and we onlydid it like a handful of times.
I think maybe maybe like 6 or 7,but yeah, like we sort of
(12:23):
thought it was like the like theFight Club thing.
We're like, oh, we're not reallygonna hurt somebody and like we.
Fight Club, Oh my God, you know,you're fucking what was beat,
what was Meatloafs characters. Bob, you're fucking Bob out
there trying to. No, like, remember when they
robbed that like convenience store guy and they're like
Raymond, what do you want to be?Shot in the head, man.
(12:45):
Yes, exactly. But but anyway, like we were as
conscientious as possible. We never stole people's wallets.
Like we would actually just taketheir cash.
We would never take their creditcards or their license.
Either way, it was a piece of shit thing to fucking do that I
knew was fucking wrong. And after the last time we did
it, both of us were like, we, we, for whatever reason, it
(13:05):
really hit us like that time. And we were like, we're, we're
getting rid of this gun. Right.
Were they like, yeah. Can I ask a question, David?
What? Did you hold up men or women?
Men. Only men.
Only men. OK, yeah, never rob women.
That was kind of you. Yeah, yeah, we only, we only
robbed dudes that were just alone by themselves.
Yeah. Invulnerable.
(13:27):
Yeah. I mean, anybody's vulnerable
when you have a fucking gun is ais a piece of shit thing to do.
And like, we tried to do it. Like my rationalization is
terrible. It's terrible.
So yeah, what what things did I do while acting out on my
addiction that I would never do?Everything.
(13:47):
Everything. I wish I would have brought like
the shit that I actually wrote in step one to like look back
and be like, Oh yeah, this is, yeah, this is what I wrote down
then. This is where actually that
would be really interesting. Yeah, I I should actually do
that. I have I have all my.
So do I somewhere, So do I. I'll have to because I.
Typed them all so you. Fucking nerd.
(14:09):
Of course, you nerd. So yeah, I mean, yeah,
Everything the answer is. Everything.
And that goes to the next question.
What things have I done to maintain my addiction that went
completely against all of my beliefs and values?
And so. Stealing that was.
That's my big one. Any anybody out there listening?
Stealing, lying, cheating. A lot of this in like, we're,
(14:30):
we're gonna be brutally honest in here.
Like some of these questions arerepetitive.
Oh yes. And there were times in my step
work where I would be like see question #7 me too.
Like I never wrote that but it would put so much self doubt in
my mind being like didn't I justanswer this?
Am I doing something wrong? I.
Remember, yeah, back in the day you would text me, be like,
(14:53):
didn't I just answer? I'm like.
Yes, I did the same thing David did.
I was like I just answered this.Question yeah, 'cause that's my,
that's what my sponsor told me as well.
He was like sometimes and he waslike even further, there's some
questions that are flat out not going to apply to you.
Yeah, at all. He was like don't try and do
some mental gymnastics or write some bullshit that isn't real.
If it does not like if it's likeif it's a question about sexual
(15:17):
abuse and you have no history ofit, don't try to make something
up. Just say that you not
applicable. Move on, move on.
Like it's better to just be honest with the step work and be
like, you know, sexual abuse is not a part of my story.
I can move past this question instead of being like, oh, well,
(15:38):
one time a girl rejected. No, don't, don't make something
up. Just keep moving on.
And if you genuinely think you've answered that question
before, it's OK to say that. Like if you, if you're like, I,
I feel like I just like, I mean,these questions are very
similar. The things I've done while
acting out on my addictions thatI would never do.
What things have I done to maintain my addiction that were
completely against my beliefs and morals?
(16:00):
To me, it's the same fucking question.
Yeah, it really is. Like I I don't think we need to
answer it a second time. So.
Right. Yeah.
Am I wrong? OK, so we'll move forward.
How does my personality change when I'm acting out on my
addiction? Do I become arrogant,
self-centered, mean tempered, passive to the point where I
can't protect myself? Manipulative.
(16:20):
Whiny. I think I'm a little bit of
passive but also also manipulative.
I could see that with you. I don't know what that means,
but yeah, I can see you and justbe like, no, we should totally
do this. And I'd be like, OK, all right,
it sounds cool. But oh, man, Eric, you were
(16:43):
definitely arrogant. Arrogance.
Arrogance has got to be in there.
Well, with coke, I mean, like, Ibecame a demon.
Like I said, like very, very arrogant, very abrasive.
I was mean tempered. But like, dude, people.
Always told me they were like how are you the only person that
can smoke weed and get angry? Well, no, every every other drug
(17:04):
I'm super chill. I'm really nice, like all of
that. But for some reason with cocaine
I just want to fuck anything and.
That's. True.
Just like you know, I don't know.
It's it's a crazy. I've told you about how cocaine
made me get a boner, right? The boner.
Yeah. I'm like 9090% of the time I
would, I would do coke and I just, I would just get a boner.
(17:26):
I'd be in a room like with dudes, they'd be like, dude, do
you, are you like full torque right now?
I'm like, yeah, I am. Do you want to make something of
it or are we just, could we justcontinue doing what we're doing?
It's like, all right, we'll justdon't let it bring up just be
like KDR, right? Now you're the weird one for
calling it out. Yeah, why are you looking at my
Dick, dude? My Dick dude.
(17:46):
No, I'll dude, my the the one word that I is on here that is
not on here that IA 100% word was belligerent whole like I'm
pretty belligerent as it is dude, especially walking into
the tattoo convention yesterday.I don't know what.
I don't know what set you off, but you were.
Coming set me off and I just I just went on like this 5 minute
(18:10):
tire. Oh, I do.
So Eric, I was talking about parents.
Coming up, I I don't know why itcame up.
I don't know. It came up out of nowhere.
Parents doing what? Parents coming and talking to me
and while picking my son up fromdaycare and I was just like I
fucking hate it. Like some dude was like oh so
you're Magnus is dead. I was like, I don't know who the
fuck you are. You have to make small talk with
(18:31):
those people. Yeah.
Yes, but he got so angry talkingabout it yesterday.
We don't, I'm, we don't have to do that.
I've never talked to. And I, I don't have to, but they
come and talk to me like we'll we'll be there at the same time
you. Don't seem that friendly though.
No, thank you. Like I, I have carefully crafted
(18:53):
this persona and and this visualimage to be like do not talk to
me. I'm.
Approachable. You know, like.
That's what I've been putting off for years.
But like, the thing that's funnyabout that, like in like the
juxtaposition is if you do come and talk to me, I actually am
very nice and respectful and like, I'm not just like an
outward Dick to you. So this dad comes up to me.
(19:16):
He's like, oh, I'm Trent's dad. I'm like, in my mind, I'm like,
I don't know, Trent. I don't know who the fuck you
are. Why are you talking to me?
Oh, your Magnus is dead. Yep.
How do you know that? Well, Trent told him.
Trent told. Him.
Well, Magnus bit Trent last week.
Compared on Magnus bit Trent. Last week bit Trent.
Yes, which is very weird becauseMagnus does not bite at home.
Magnus is a biter. It's the first time it's
(19:38):
happened so I'm not worried. OK.
OK. He's like, Oh yeah.
So I heard Magnus, Magnus bit Trent last week.
I was like, Oh yeah, I heard that.
And like in my mind, I'm like, what did Trent do?
I'm like, what? I'm like, did Magnus have a car?
And Trent was trying to take hiscar, in which case Magnus bid
(20:00):
him. Mind your fucking business,
Trent. Take your Take your hands off
Magnus's car. That's true.
There is, there is. If you're not, if you, if you
nice, if you ask nicely and you're like, hey Magnus, can I
see your car? He will give it to you 99% of
the time, but if you take it from him, he's going to look at
you in a way of like, what are you doing?
(20:21):
That was in my hand. Why are you now?
Why is it now in your hand? So I, I don't know how we got
onto this. Understandable.
Your belligerent. Belligerent.
Yes. My see everybody listening.
That's my belligerence. Don't.
Worry I've got the starting point.
Thank you. Thank you.
I Yeah, I I became verbally belligerent and I I was, I was a
miserable person. Most people would not like me
(20:42):
when I was doing drugs. Next question.
Who must read it? Do I manipulate other people to
maintain my addiction? Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah. Is there another way?
I mean I I literally stayed withmy girlfriend for years because
(21:04):
her family and I like traded drugs to each other.
Like, well, that's not, that's not a manipulation.
That's just a good business tactic.
Well, that that that was it was a matter of convenience.
That's manipulating yourself bud.
But it was like OK so I get fromfrom her I get benzos from her
mom OK I get Adderall from her brothers they sell me weed like
(21:26):
I also. Do it's a quid.
That's a quid pro quo situation.You know, so it's like I got to
keep this one. Around, which is actually my
favorite Latin to use. I use that all the time.
Once I actually figured out, like once I actually like,
learned what it meant, I was like, oh, that's really useful.
Anyway, yeah. How?
Is there another way to maintainyour addiction other than
(21:49):
manipulation? Find out a way to get rid.
Of it is there, is there like a rational way to it's?
Called it's called money. No, but like to not manipulate.
Honesty. Yeah, honesty.
Like exactly. That's the, that's the
antithesis to manipulation, is honesty.
It's like I'm gonna go in the bathroom and do some cocaine.
OK, We're good. All right, Cool.
And like that's that's the opposite and there's not.
(22:11):
Actually running to the store I'm running to buy some more
coke, yeah. And you're like, oh, hey, Carly,
where you going? Oh, I'm.
And then I had to get gas, and then I had to go do this.
And then I had to go do that. Yeah.
Just took longer. Yeah, it just took longer than I
meant it to. Yeah, the only it's the only
way. There is no other way to
maintain your addiction unless you're in some bizarro fucking
(22:34):
world where you literally just tell people like hey I'm going
to go get some meth and then smoke it for the next three days
and not answer my phone. Get a nuts for you.
Do you want some meth? Because honestly, I'm not going
to share it with you, or if I do, I'm only going to give you a
little bit and I'm going to takea lot.
Like what the fuck is happening?I feel like.
(22:57):
Carly and I are having a conversation and you're having
Tourette's Bizarro. What's the next question?
Eric, why don't you go ahead andread it?
Did you not get that reference? Oh man, did you not watch Adult
Swim in? The Do you have the book in
front of you? Yeah, I do.
OK, so we just did the person, how does their personality
(23:17):
change? Then and do I manipulate?
It So have I tried to quit usingand found that I couldn't have.
I quit using on my own and foundthat my life was so painful
without drugs that my abstinencedidn't last very long.
What were these times like? Well, I don't know.
(23:38):
If I actively tried to quit using, I would tell myself that
I was going to quit using. I'm not doing this anymore.
Right. And then I would do it again.
So or like I'd quit using one drug just to go on to the next.
Yeah, but like there was times where I did have to quit using
(23:59):
like in college for sports. My shit was usually for
probation. My, I think it was my senior
year they implemented in like inhouse drug testing where we
could get drug tested any time of the year.
Salisbury, yeah. Dicks.
Yeah, so come. On.
So. I just have to take a test to
tell you I'm doing. Drugs.
So I was able to maintain that and I was happy because I did
(24:22):
get drug tested. So I was like, all right, it
wasn't for nothing. OK, that.
Makes sense? But I wouldn't say it was like,
I never, it wasn't painful at that time, but like later on it
was, yeah, it was, oh, I'm goingto quit using or I have to stop,
quit like I have to quit using. And I just told myself that.
But then the next day it was thesame shit over and over again.
(24:44):
Yeah. So when I was on probation, that
was the only time, like for the first times.
The first couple times on probation I would stop doing
drugs, but like I would still drink.
Yeah. 'Cause they wouldn't test for
alcohol. So it, it, it was just, you
know, a switcheroo. Like it was just, oh, well, I
can't smoke weed. Like, was I miserable and like,
(25:05):
wanted to smoke weed? Yeah, for sure.
But I was just like, well, at least I can get fucked up
somehow. Yeah.
See, yeah, that's but as far as trying to quit by myself, fuck
no, I never tried. I.
Even though I knew had a problemand going well, going to the
(25:27):
point of like life was too painful without drugs.
Yes, that was very much the casefor me because like my, my, you
know, my brain was just a cobwebof bullshit from my life that I
was like, I don't want to, I don't want to deal with any of
that. So yeah, yeah, my brain and life
(25:49):
and emotions were very painful. So I was like, drugs is the only
way to cope with us. So I mean, I think mine is like,
the easiest one for me to remember is cigarettes and how
many times I would throw away, like half a pack of cigarettes,
right? Like the night, like I'm like
going to sleep. I'm like, this is my last
(26:09):
cigarette. I'm like, I break the, like the
rest of the pack in half. You know, you flush it.
Yeah, I've done that. And then the next morning I wake
up. OK.
So yeah, we're talking about store.
And buy a new I'm glad. You broke that, Yeah.
And that fucking habit happened.Oh my God.
So many times, yeah, with with cigarettes it took for I mean,
(26:32):
yeah. Years and years and years and
years of me looking in the mirror being like this is the
last fucking time. And I, yeah, I smoked
consistently for 16 years. I I smoked.
God, that's bad. For 12.
For 12 years. Yeah, no.
And. Oh dude, I was.
(26:53):
So fucking angry every time I tried to quit smoking
cigarettes. I was just kidding.
I my temper was, you know, like there's my fuse.
There's an uncomfortability in those first three days that's
like undescribable. Yeah, you know, Yeah, yeah,
because the yeah, it it. Nicotine's a motherfucker.
Nicotine sucks, dude. And honestly, I like my body has
(27:16):
not felt right since. Not smoking?
Well, now you've smoked for. 16 years like my like.
Well, honestly, you've been smoking longer than that, right?
Like on like. Yes, but like consistent like I
was a pack a day smoker as of 19before that I was still like you
know, I was smoking when I couldand you all the way back till
like age 11 day. Right.
(27:38):
Some like. Some days, yes.
Oh yeah, if we had a bonfire I'msmoking 2 packs.
Because you I've seen you like. Dude, I would have fucking.
Charged through cigarettes. Dude, I had a fucking problem.
You and Brad. Dude, we go.
Dude I swear to God me and Brad had an unspoken competition.
It's 15 minutes. You guys are on cigarette three.
Like slow your roll. Like I you don't need it.
(28:01):
Like you literally don't need that nicotine right now.
But it did. How has my addiction caused me
to hurt myself or others? It's like all these questions
are like, count it off like. Yeah.
When do you want me to stop talking?
(28:24):
Like which? Which time?
Yeah dude fucking my addiction caused me to fucking huff duster
for a month. EW, that was the worst.
I mean I did nitrous but EW. Duster dude, I and the last time
(28:45):
it was coming like the can was coming up to my lips, I was
literally like I fucking hate myself.
This is gosh, I'm like this is disgusting and I like I was just
I just threw it away. I was like, I am this is fucking
horrible. Shout out to Allison out there
from the episode of InterventionI.
Can see sunshine. What was she huffing Duster?
(29:09):
Oh my God, season 1 one of the best.
Episodes ever loved that one of the.
Best one of the best episodes. Dude, I used to.
She used to judge the shit out of people, right?
I used. To sit there highest fuck and
watch it like my life's not as bad as you ever saw.
Dude I'd always be getting high,usually on oxy and then be like
oh they're like smoking fucking black tar, I'm fine.
(29:30):
Yeah, these guys are losers. Fucking assholes.
Shameless was also one that I watched while I was getting
high. Watch that.
Show I mean. I mean, me too.
I was like, my life is a lot better than theirs.
I mean, to be fair, though, I was living in a car for several
years, so I didn't exactly have,you know, TVTV.
(29:50):
All right, we're on to unmanageability.
How was your wait? How's your addiction hurt?
Hurt yourself and others. I mean, obviously like the
physical harm we just caused to like put it.
I mean, Garrett talked about it last night, which was probably
the most he'd pulled the veil down that I've ever heard.
Like he was talking about her when she used to do coke and
like, he would just go out and get crabs just to make himself
(30:12):
feel better. And I was like.
Oh. My God, yeah, he had never said
that before. No, what a Baltimore thing.
To do he would just, he would, he would come, he said he would
just eat crabs and then he wouldgo to sleep because at that
point he had to like work on Saturday morning.
So he would just get crabs on a Friday night and eat them and
he'd wake up on Saturday morning.
Stop. Stop, he would.
(30:32):
Still be awake playing? Video Did he go to ships?
No, he likes craving crabs. But the fact that, yeah, I had
never heard of like, you know, pull the curtain back like that
before, and I was like, oh, shit, I'm like this.
Is right. Wow.
Yeah. So I don't know, I'm sure that
there's a lot of pain that I called caused others, but.
(30:54):
I want, wait, hold on. Can I can, can we Fast forward a
little bit? Have you made amends to Garrett?
No. Have you thought about it?
No, OK, I mean. I know you didn't get that to
get that part, Yeah. Living in a men's every single
fucking day. The things I do for that man.
(31:15):
Touché point. Yep, absolutely.
You're 100% right. You do not owe him in a men's.
No, I do definitely living. In a men's, which is like which
is better? That's better.
Than but I mean, even early on in recovery, like he made a
comment and was just like, this is like it's night and day with
how you are now and how you werebefore.
(31:36):
Nice. Like, and that was like very
early on in my recovery. So like, yeah, there's a lot of
harm done, but there's a lot of people that like my family and I
don't really talk about it. Occasionally I'll get the I'm
really proud of you and that's just like it.
Yeah, I got. I got that.
Last. But we don't.
We don't talk about it. Did you ever like say you
(31:57):
haven't done anything like with your sisters, like formally or
anything? No.
You ever thought about it? No, not really.
Honestly, our relationship now is, I mean, speaks for itself of
how great it is. But to like, there were so many
resentments that I had against them that I don't know, but
(32:18):
that, yeah, we're not there. I wish I was.
Honestly, I wish I was closer with Melissa.
I feel like I would like Melissa.
Melissa's pretty fucking awesome.
Melissa, she's pretty cool. And I didn't realize we were the
exact. We were both 87, so that's
pretty cool. Unmanageability.
Who wants to take those one? I can read it.
Not the whole thing. Are we reading?
Yeah. Read your important parts there,
Yeah. I don't have important.
(32:39):
Parts OK. Read the first, Read the first
paragraph all. Right.
So unmanageability. The first step, asks us to admit
two things. One, that we were powerless over
our addiction, and two, that ourlives had become that our lives
have. Become manageable well that's
true because yeah, they. Actually, we would be hard
(33:00):
pressed to admit one and not theother.
Our unmanageability is the outward evidence of our
powerlessness. There are two general types of
unmanageability. Outward unmanageability, the
kind that you can see can be seen by others, an inner or
personal unmanageability. What does unmanageability mean
(33:20):
to you? This was actually, I remember
this, I remember this reading this for the first time, the
difference between outward and inward unmanageability because I
had no, I had no concept of inward unmanageability because I
(33:44):
had, you know, either run away from anything internal or just
numbed it out for so long that I, I had no relationship with
myself or with my thoughts or with my emotions.
So the out I was, I was very much focused coming into
recovery on the outward of manageability because it says,
like right here, it says often unidentified as arrests, job
(34:08):
losses and family problems. Some of our members are being
incarcerated. Some of us can't, can't maintain
a relationship. Some of us are cut off from our
families. Bingo, check, check, check.
All three of those coming into recovery, I had just gotten out
of jail. I couldn't hold a fucking job
and my sister and would no longer talk to me or let me see
(34:29):
my nieces. I had all three fucking checked
off so early in the step work. I was like, OK, I fucking belong
here because this is. And I really felt like I was
like, OK, this is, this is speaking to me.
This is, this is telling my fucking story.
But I was focused on that outward unmanageability and then
inward unmanageability. You know, we may, we may believe
(34:50):
that the world revolves around us, not that it should, but that
it does. And you know, emotional
volatility is often one of the most obvious ways we can
identify personal unmanageability.
I, I didn't know that that was part of like how unmanageable my
life was. And it absolutely was.
So we like I had a lot of work to do in order to just like get
(35:12):
to that point of admitting that I had in order on manageability.
I had never felt much of the outward unmanageability until
the very like end. Like yeah, there was family
problems, but it wasn't caused because of me.
Do you think that wasn't a thing?
And but like and then it was therisk of that outward it
(35:34):
unmanageability of possibly losing my job, but I had a lot
of personal or inner because. You were actually outwardly very
successful. Both of you were.
Both of you were very outwardly successful.
So like that I think. Was me?
Not so much. Again, part of the reason why it
was so hard to identify as an addict because I wasn't losing
(35:56):
anything on the outside, but like I was dead on the inside,
like fully dead. And the there's a sentence in
here, we may believe that the responsibilities the average
person takes on as a matter of course are just too large a
burden for us to bear. And like that's, I felt that,
(36:17):
yeah, so much of the time. Yeah, especially at the end of
your story where, like, you knoweverything.
Your world. Yeah.
Yeah, like, I honestly felt likeI had to be superwoman.
Like, obviously probably nobody else really thought that but me,
right? But that was part of what drove
me to, like, keep pushing by like, yeah, I have so much
(36:38):
responsibility. I have to do cocaine to stay
awake all the time. Have you seen Encanto?
Yes, I love Encanto. Tell me you're not.
I haven't, I've only watched it once and I haven't seen it in a
while. Oh, so the Louisa the strong
sister like her. Song, OH.
I love that song. First, oh, first time I saw it,
(36:58):
I was like, Oh my God. So many other songs in Canto are
great. But yeah, she always felt like
she had to hold on to the world and order to keep things
together. She always had to be the strong.
One yeah and I still sometimes feel that or like that on myself
I. Mean, that's just that.
That's Carly. Carly always has to be the
(37:19):
strong one. And I know that about you, which
I love. I like, I love.
And I'm also like very sad aboutit.
So I'm like, you don't, you don't have to do that.
And you're and but see, that's the fucked up part of our minds
is you know that, Like you know that you don't have to hold on
to the world. But then the other part of your
fucking brain says, yeah, you doif you don't, because if you
(37:40):
don't, everything's going to collapse.
Everything's going to fucking fall apart.
What about you, Eric? Outward and inward and
unmanageability. Well, I'm going to say this is a
different way, actually. So I'm going to talk about how
unmanageability has changed for me kind of over time because
like this, this doesn't mean thesame thing that it meant to me
when I was 20 and it. Shouldn't, Yeah.
(38:00):
So like when I was 24, like, my unmanageability was like, I, I
can literally not stop doing drugs.
Yeah. Like, literally like.
I mean, if that was still the case 12 years from 12 years in,
it's like, I mean, some people it is anyway.
I'm sorry. Yeah, I mean like, but that was,
that was like that was the unmanageability was like I, I
(38:24):
and there and like there were tricks to it too, like where I
was like, well, I can control this and I can control that and
I could, I mean I could control it.
So like, but I think as it changes, like what it becomes is
like, it's not really on like the hard part about the
unmanageability and what it saysis like for a lot of people,
(38:45):
it's like, OK, I do drugs, I lose everything.
I become, you know, XX like, youknow, and you, you kind of just
said like, oh, you, you know, you guys were successful, right?
Like in a, you know. Quote UN quote.
Quote UN quote like so when I came back at 27 into the rooms,
(39:06):
that was really, it was this question was impossible for me
to answer because it was like what?
Like how are you know what is unmanageable for you?
And it's like, well, I just bought a house.
Yeah, you know, and it's like I have like.
I have a career. I have a career.
I have like this. I have XXXXX.
And yeah, I have a degree. It's like I've made this
(39:28):
decision. To I have a four O 1 Ki am not I
am not destitute. Well, it's like, it's like I've
made a decision to come back into recovery to do this work.
And, and, and, and it's even evolved since then where it's
like, what does unmanageability mean to me?
While I'm more in, you know, I'mless into an abstinence based
program and more into a moderation based program because
(39:51):
then you're thinking more of bottom lines.
And. Manageability and like, what is
the bottom line compared to likeyou know, how far are you
willing to take something to before it becomes unmanageable?
Yeah. Which is like, it gets a fine
line and you really have to be very, very conscious of it.
(40:11):
Oh, yeah, yeah. Vigilance has to be, you know,
paramount at all times. All right, That was it.
That was it. Great answers.
Great answers. Well done. 505 hundred points to
Gryffindor all around. Are you Gryffindor?
You're Gryffindor. I think, I think if we were, if
we were being honest, like I think we'd all be like more
(40:34):
collectively Ravenclaw. OK, can we digress for just a
second? Is it bullshit that like you can
never change the like, come on, at age 11, like you don't go
through a couple years and like in the then at 13 or 14, you're
like, I'm I don't, I don't, I'm not so much a Hufflepuff.
Anymore but I think the house. Shapes you?
(40:56):
Yeah, the house does shape you too.
Yeah, so. But aren't there some like like
Snape? Like yes, he was a Slytherin.
But really not. Not all Slytherins are bad.
Yeah, but when you look at like what he did, you're like, oh,
that's Gryffindor shit. Well yeah, that's totally
Gryffindor shit, but again, not all Slytherins are bad.
(41:17):
Or or is just the sorting hat just so fucking like magical and
like all seeing that it like knows that like him being a
slither and has to be a part of the story in order for him to,
you know, be able to do what he.Did is omnipresent?
I guess it's. Omnipresent.
I guess it's like. God, it knows.
It knows. It knows now.
It knows yesterday. It knows tomorrow.
(41:38):
And also, one thing I thought ofwhile you were talking about
that, Eric, another Harry Potterreference, is that
unmanageability and the disease of addiction a little bit is a
fucking boggart. You know it's a shapeshift.
So what's your boggart? Right now, yeah.
I mean redheads I. I think lust would be my boggart
(42:07):
right now. Lust is definitely a boggart for
me right now. Yeah, like, but also like the
future. The future is very much
something that like I'm I'm tenuously struggling with.
So yeah, that would that would kind of be, you know, the
manifestation or the OR the, the, the, the, it would be the
(42:29):
form of the monster. But I also like thinking about
that it it's very apropos because like just depending how
or where we are in our lives, how that monster is going to
manifest. What's your bogger, Carly?
I don't know. Shoes.
(42:50):
No giant pair of shoes, No. To being alone.
No, I love being alone. But you don't like being left
out. I don't like being left out, but
I love being alone. Like I love to make it's my
(43:13):
active choice to be alone. Yes, but when?
Yeah. When I'm not included, that's
hurtful. Yeah, yeah.
So is your, is your bogger then like dis interest in you?
I guess it yeah, you would have to be just, I don't know, just.
(43:34):
Interest in Carly from others. Sure.
OK, we'll go with that. Sure.
Somebody read the next question,I'm going to grab Pellegrino.
Have I ever been arrested or hadlegal trouble as a result of my
addiction? No, that's a no.
I so before wait, that's not thewhole.
Question Have I ever done anything that I could have been
(43:56):
arrested for? If only I recall?
Sure. And what have those things been?
Cocaine. So wait, before we get into
David and I who have been arrested.
Carly, what is the worst thing you have done?
Sorry, trigger for the Alcoholics.
That would have gotten you arrested.
That was rude. I'm sorry.
That was funny. Though I don't, I don't think
(44:17):
there's like a worst. I think it's just basic like.
You're terrible. Nike story doing the drugs Well,
that wasn't even illegal. I mean defrauding people out of
money, technically. Sure.
Oh my God, when you put it like that.
Cancers that I forgot. Yeah.
Holy shit that's like seventh level of hell stuff, Carly.
(44:38):
Yeah, but I don't think it was like something I would have been
arrested for. No, it's just.
Morally like. Jesus.
Jeez. No, I wasn't.
See, I wasn't big on like stealing or vandalizing or doing
any of that shit. I just like.
Degenerate. Like did right?
I just. Drank and did drugs and drove my
(45:01):
car and so that would have been.Yeah.
Like. Duis is probably the most
readily, yeah. Duis.
For or like. Duis in possession was.
Just or the amount of times thatI should have probably gotten
pulled over because I like smoking and driving like.
That was, but you were on the burn run roads.
You're fine. Yeah.
(45:21):
Except there was one time a cop car pulled out behind us and I
thought my life was over. Yeah, we always, always.
I still think my life is over when I fucking cop is behind.
Me dude I ate an entire blunt once.
I just ate it. But he wasn't.
He pulled out of the neighborhood on a college.
College Ave. Yeah, but we went right on to
(45:44):
what was that Bonnie branch or whatever, and he went left.
So we were good. Yeah, was it Howard County cop?
Yeah. Oh, you're in trouble.
Yeah, that, that. And I've also gotten stopped
like we were trying to. I was trying to pick up drugs
from someone in Howard County, and they told us to pull into a
parking lot and there were cops in that parking lot.
So I turned around and pulled out and like went down the road
(46:07):
road and pulled some in somewhere else.
And they must have thought we look sketchy and followed us and
then like, pulled in behind my car, but I had nothing on me.
So they were like, what are you doing?
I was like, I'm trying to like find, like I'm trying to go to
my friend's house. I've never been there before.
Like, I lost. And obviously it was a bullshit
(46:29):
story. He probably didn't believe me.
But our car didn't smell like I had nothing on me.
And it was just like, get out ofhere.
That was one thing I figured outlater is like, yeah, doing shit
in public places is sketchy. But like when you're in that
scenario where you like, like pull into a Barnes and Noble and
there's a bunch of cops, get outand go into Barnes and Noble.
(46:50):
Yeah, like just always, you always make yeah.
Get out. Just get out and look like
you're just going about. You're like, Oh yeah, I'm
meeting in the the parking lot of a fucking Safeway.
Well, there's a cop here. I'm going grocery shopping.
Yeah, but I don't even know whattime it was.
Yeah, like it was later. I don't know if the stores were
open. Yeah.
And why whoever it was told us to pull into it'd?
(47:11):
Be funny if you were just all zooted on coke and, you know,
like Barnes and Noble is clearlyclosed and they're like, what
are you doing here? I just really needed a magazine
officer like I was. I was like, I weren't.
A. This was when I was in high
school, so. OK, Yeah.
So, all right, Eric, what do youwant to take the arrested in
legal trouble? So I've been arrested once if it
(47:34):
like you. Badass.
Besides getting like whatever like the drinking citations.
And. Like trespassing charges.
I did get an alcohol citation incollege, but.
I had a that's. Still on your record?
My trespassing is still on my record too, I trust.
Yeah, the fucking governor has to get rid of that shit.
My sister bought us the alcohol.But I got arrested in Howard
(47:57):
County. Yeah, right across from the
Enchanted Forest. I had just bought some coke from
this dude from Bippy's that dudeand that dude's dead today, POD
Ed. And just a reminder, you know,
(48:18):
and then. As long as we don't go down that
death hole again. Yeah.
No, no, we've moved on. We're continuing.
Now in the lost hole. So that sounded bad.
So now I'm going to go into yourlost hole, but the fucking so I
like this, this guy. We were making a trade I met.
So I was working at Sam Goody atthe time and like working at Sam
(48:40):
Goody People. Would tell me you're old without
telling me you're old. Sometimes.
Oh yeah, there sometimes. I know what Sam Goody is.
Sometimes people would just giveus drugs, like at the counter,
they'd be like, yeah, here's like a bag of weed if you guys
are interested. And it's like, oh, cool, thanks,
man. So I met this guy who was
essentially like, he's like, I'minterested.
He was like, I'm essentially like a pharmacist and blah blah,
(49:01):
blah, and like I can get you anytype of pill and I was like
you're useful. So I was going to trade like
like this guy weed from this onedealer who I just bought coke
from to then. Trade dude I did that so many
times. And then I did that so many
times to the other dealer. Yep.
And like luckily I left the cokewith my dealer and I was like OK
(49:23):
I'll get the rest of this when Icome back because I had a busted
tail light. Got.
Pulled over immediately as I pulled out and they they were
just like pigs and shit man there were so many of them.
Like I got charged with distribution, 4 counts of
possession and four counts of paraphernalia.
(49:43):
How can you get, I don't know. That's what I've never
understood. Like I'm one person, how can you
get me 4 counts of possession? Well, I had four different
drugs. Does that.
Make sense? Yeah, there you go.
Scratch that, they took, they, they cut it down to just
district, they cut it down to just possession and they got rid
of all the other charges. But yeah, that was the only time
(50:05):
I've ever been arrested. And I had to go to Columbia
Addiction Center like everyone else does in Howard County.
And, you know, it was six monthsof dry or seven, nine months of
like being dry, essentially. But yeah.
Do we have time for David's arrest record?
I I mean what, what can we just,can we have the best 1I?
(50:27):
Guess. Or can they be condensed?
Like how many times were you arrested on possession?
11 times. All 11 possession.
Everyone was a possession charge, yeah.
Was there anything else? I did get a fireworks citation,
but that was a. Citation.
But was there distribution or like intent to sell?
(50:50):
Like Nope, just possession, no. How are you that bad at like?
I was reckless, really. Yes.
Yes, dude. You're like Jane Silent Bob
smoking out in front of the store or something.
Three of them were before I was 18, so those ones got wiped away
(51:12):
because that was a minor. So technically only eight in a
matter of seven years. So that's really bad.
Yeah. So I had, yeah, I had, I had
more charges than I did years using as an adult technically.
The one in Pennsylvania, too, was just possession.
Yeah, Yep. They wanted to get me for
(51:35):
distribution, but they had, I didn't have any Baggies, I
didn't have a scale. I I was and they were like, this
is all for you. I was like.
Yep. How much was it?
An ounce. Of.
An ounce OK an. Oz and I so I actually had just
gotten a root canal done. So I had oxys on me too, but I
had a prescription. I had the actual like I had
(51:56):
gotten the root canal the day before.
So I actually had the the prescription with me and I was
like, dude, I was like, you can look in my mouth because he was
like, you look fucked up. I was like, I just got a fucking
root canal done, dude, and I waslike, here's the script from
then. He was like it may called the
doctor like this guy just get itall checked out.
So they they couldn't get me forthe the oxys and all And dude,
(52:19):
they were like, where's the heroin?
I was like, what do you mean? Where's the fucking heroin?
What are you talking about? They were like, this is the
heroin highway. Didn't you know that?
And I was like, no, I was like, yeah, I totally knew that, but I
didn't do heroin. And then they they said the
rudest thing that I've ever beenfucking said to me ever.
They were like, well, you have the heroin body.
I was like, what the fuck does that mean?
It's not rude. That is very rude.
(52:41):
I, I, I think that's a compliment.
That means that you have been. What I was skin and bones.
It was terrible. I looked.
Awful. No, I looked awful and they knew
it. And we've.
Talked about this the heroin addicts usually are the ones who
look good when in a. Heroin chic.
It was terrible. It was rude.
It was rude. How young I look.
It was rude. I was doing cocaine, oxys and
(53:03):
and you know, weed and alcohol and whatever hallucinogens I
could do It's rude. I'm not a heroin addict.
See. Yeah, those those are my last
two. I did 15 days in jail between
Howard County and Pennsylvania and Philly and it it was awful.
It was fucking miserable. What's that?
(53:25):
Have I ever done anything that Icould have been arrested?
We don't. Have time for that?
Yeah, we don't have time for that.
Yes, I did Big crimes. I I do not want to talk about
them. I will not incriminate myself on
those. Let.
Me think about one of mine that I did that is like not.
With Lord, what is? Happening this afternoon
upstairs. Well, we're gonna, we're gonna
probably shut it down, I think now, now.
(53:46):
Well, yeah, on this part of on, we'll do the rest of on
manageability. OK, we'll do the other.
We're already at an hour, dude. Surprisingly, yeah.
So we're not going to go into more on manageability.
No, we're going to do that when we come back.
All right, all right, all right.Yeah, Yeah.
Wait, let me see man, a lot of these are fucking we'll.
(54:10):
Come, we'll come back to them. Yeah, the next one.
All right. I like this.
This is really fun. Oh, it's a lot of fun.
Yeah, I hope you. Guys, so we only got through
2469 questions. The fuck's wrong with us?
We went on a lot of YEAH, there was a lot of digression.
And we're, yeah, we're, we're answering these thoroughly.
Like, yeah, we did. We did do we did go a little bit
(54:32):
more thorough into these ones. And that's what you're supposed
to do when you go through the steps.
You don't microwave them, you know, make sure you, you get in
there and, and, and like, it's like a pot roast, slow roast
that shit. You know, you had it and then
you just kept going and. You.
Yeah, I think this is a good time to yeah, to wrap it.
Up. Yeah, you said don't microwave
them. And yeah, that was good.
All right, so everybody, thank you for joining us.
(54:54):
Apparently, we have a three-yearold making a big noise upstairs.
So thank you for joining us onceagain on our second episode on
the 12 steps of Narcotics Anonymous.
We are still in step one. We'll be coming back with
unmanageability next time. So TuneIn, same bat time, same
bat channel. That's a great reference.
(55:16):
Everybody keep going to all of our social media outlets,
Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, like share, subscribe,
go to our merch page and buy some shit because we need help
keeping the mics on. So we do have merch and we do
have a Patreon that you can join.
So most importantly, everybody out there.
Stay safe and stay clean. Very nice.
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