December 2, 2025 • 40 mins
A hallway chat about flat earth lit the fuse—but the explosion wasn’t about science. It was about trust. We’ve all felt it: headlines that spin, institutions that protect themselves, and platforms that sound more “human” than the people in charge. That’s the current we wade into as we ask a harder question: when credibility sinks across the board, how can Christians rebuild it in public, practical ways that actually serve our neighbors?
We start by tracing the rise of alternative authorities—YouTube, TikTok, and influencers—explaining why confident clips often outrun careful research. Then we turn the mirror on the church. From money scandals to abuse coverups to celebrity meltdowns, these well-known failures amplify a broader suspicion: if institutions won’t be honest when it hurts, why should we trust their message when it heals? We share a moving story of someone wounded by church responses to sexuality, underscoring how pain, not just disagreement, drives people away from faith communities.
Rather than hand-wringing, we get practical. We outline five habits that rebuild credibility: be present in the community without an agenda; be open and accessible as leaders and neighbors; be transparent about personal struggles and church finances; be honest even when it costs popularity; and be a real community, not a one-person show. These aren’t PR tactics; they’re everyday practices that make the gospel plausible again. If you’ve wondered how to earn a hearing on hard topics—identity, ethics, purpose—this is your field guide to trust lived out loud.
Join us, try the one-week challenge to connect beyond your comfort zone, and tell us what you learn. If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find their way back to trustworthy community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
You're listening to practically Christian podcasts.
Taking all that information yougot all in your brain and giving
you real practical application.
(00:25):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thankyou so much for the applause and
the love.
Welcome to Hello.
Welcome to Practically ChristianPodcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:39):
So that was pretty loud, my bad.
So I have a new soundboardtoday?
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
All new sounds.
Oh gosh.
Because I was bored.
And I found stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
You get in trouble when you're bored.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Now that being said, well, everybody gets in trouble
when they're bored, let's behonest.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
That's true.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
Now that being said, that is not what we are
currently discussing on today'sepisode.
Um, just a little backstoryabout today's episode.
It was supposed to come out onWednesday.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
And we did record.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
And I absolutely hated it.
It was rough.
I don't want that to be a goodrepresent I I did not find that
a good representation of whatyou know to be true.
So so that one got deleted.
And you know, it's it's it's onthe same topic.
(01:32):
Have no fear.
It is.
Um not that you knew what thetopic was anyway.
You didn't.
Um but but anyway, this one'sgonna be much better.
I have I have made thatresolution as long as our dog
who is now joining us in thepodcast booth stays quiet.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Welcome, sir.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
He's probably not gonna add a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
But he doesn't add a lot.
He takes a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Today's topic is seriously, it's one that I was
really like super excited to do.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Um It just got away from us.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
It really did.
But um, just to give a littlebackground info, um I was
talking with another teacher atwork after work one day, and and
the conversation went throughlike at least ten different
topics.
And then it got two.
And then all of a sudden theywere like, Do you b do you
(02:29):
believe that the earth is flat?
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Which that really made the conversation an
extensive at first Well, atfirst I thought it was like Did
you okay when they said that toyou, because I walked away.
Did you giggle?
Did you think they were joking?
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
I did, and I started joking back, you know, and then
you felt bad.
Oh, how absurd.
SPEAKER_02 (02:53):
And then I realized you know, a couple of sentences
in.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
I was like, oh, they're serious, they're being
like serious.
And and and and the otherteacher I was talking to, like
they don't believe that theearth was flat.
They were just asking they well,they did a lot of research.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Um, and and they're not saying that the world is
flat.
They're not saying that theworld's not flat.
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
But they're questioning.
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
They're questioning.
Right.
Um, which yes, at first I didthink it was a joke because you
know You're going, there's noway.
Most people believe that umPythagoras in about 500 BC, the
guy that gave us the guess whattheorem.
Pythagorean.
(03:36):
Yeah, the Pythagorean theorem.
Yeah, that makes sense.
He um he had already came outand said in in 500 BC that the
earth is round.
Right.
Um, you know, in uh somesomewhere around there because
of eclipses of a lunar eclipse,and and they went, hey, if the
(03:56):
earth is putting a shadow on themoon, it has to it has to be
around because that's what theshadow is.
SPEAKER_03 (04:02):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Okay.
Now, fast forward, becauseobviously we are way past 500
BC.
Right.
Um, so fast forward some 2500years, and it's a resurgence
almost.
I mean, even if you you go backto you know, Christopher
Columbus's days, and I don'tknow if people out there
(04:23):
remember um learning about it,the reasons like people, you
know, the the whole theory wasyou couldn't sail anywhere
because if you went too close,you'd fall off the edge that the
earth was flat.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
That was the fear.
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
You know, because these ships would leave and not
come back and and never comeback.
So they these people must havegone somewhere.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Right.
They didn't re they didn't theyfigure they went off the side of
the the earth.
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
Right.
And and I'm gonna be honest, youknow, you you've already given
us four and a half minutes ofyour time.
So if you're waiting to hear ifit's flat or not.
Yes, proof of bump bum bump.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
If you're waiting to hear That was really loud.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
No answers.
We're not gonna get to it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:11):
Um That is not the point.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Yeah, the point isn't is the world flat or
round?
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
Um I think Of course he never barks, and then of
course now you're gonna bark.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Um he apparently decided uh-uh, go.
He apparently decided He wantedto um to um be a part of the
episode.
He did.
You we're not here to discusswhether or not the earth is
round or or flat.
Right.
Um I am a believer that it's notthat is round.
Um I think the majority ofevidence nowadays would support
(05:48):
that.
Right.
However, I do want to look intothis a little deeper because as
I started researching, once Ifound out that this other
teacher was being dead seriousand and it was an interesting
topic, um, I did start reading alot of articles about it.
I did start reading and watchingsome YouTube videos about it,
(06:08):
and and it is a much biggerphenomenon than I would have
ever given it credit for in theyear 2022.
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
And it's not just coming from people that don't
believe in Jesus because a lotof people think that's what
happens.
SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
This is coming from people who there are Christians
that that believe this as well,yes.
And according to uh the websitepursuit.university of Melbourne
dot edu.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Australia.
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
Yes, this is an Australian G'day, mate.
Throw another shrimp on theBobby.
SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
What?
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
Keep going.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Like there's not American stereotypes all over
the world.
SPEAKER_02 (06:49):
Of course there is McDonald's, franchise.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
I'm sure there's someone right now listening to
this episode going, I'm just ashoot my guns off.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Okay, keep coming.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Keep it coming.
But anyway, according to thewebsite, it says, you know,
concerning flat earth theory.
And it's getting more tractionthan some of the other
conspiracies out there.
Like chemtrails.
Right.
Which propose that a plane'slong-lasting condensation trail
is actually made up of chemicalor a biological agent.
(07:20):
Like, like there are conspiracy,like this is like a rabbit hole
of things to get lost.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
You can get lost in it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
Like most conspiracy theories.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
Oh yeah.
Like, you know, are aliens real?
You know, who shot Kennedy?
Um, you know, like, does theshould I am I allowed to say it?
Does the Illuminati exist?
You know, they're probablymonitoring this.
I mean, I know every bite ofinformation that that comes
through on the internet ismonitored somewhere.
(07:50):
I assume it is.
Um But when you really startdiving into this and you really
start looking at all thesedifferent things you can get
into, we understand that it'snot so much is the worst world
flat around.
It's, you know, according to thesame website, well, in part,
(08:11):
according to the School ofCulture and Communication
Lecturer, Dr.
Jennifer Beckett, it's due to ageneral shift towards populism
and a distrust in the views ofexperts and mainstream media.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
With reason.
In Spanish, we say con razón.
There's a reason people aremistrusting and disbelieving and
not, you know, not trusting whatthe higher, you know, the higher
what's the word I can't evensay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Well well, here, I'm gonna quote Dr.
Jennifer Beckett again umbecause she said it's really
about the power of knowledge andthat increasing distrust in what
we once considered to be thegatekeepers of knowledge, like
academics, scientific agencies,or the government.
SPEAKER_02 (08:57):
And honestly, you I'm not I'm not saying I buy
into any of these conspiracytheories, but I get I do get
where people are coming fromwith distrust.
I mean, me personally goingthrough things physically,
medically, having to go throughdoctor after doctor.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
And it's funny you bring that up because one of the
Pew studies I read today um wastalking about how doctors are
actually the most trustedprofession in America with
eighty-two percent of peopleblindly just trusting the
doctor.
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
I'm on the other side of that or you are the
eighteen percent.
I'm the eighteen percent thatI've had to go through so much
and you know, kind of telldoctors what's going on.
Um so I get going, I don't carewhat your degree is, I don't
care what you went to schoolfor, I don't I don't believe
you.
I don't think you know whatyou're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Oh, I agree a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02 (09:50):
So I get it, but I'm not saying that just because a
few doctors I've gone to didn'tdo their due diligence that I'm
just gonna throw the baby outwith the bathwater.
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
Right.
Are you like we're not trying topropagate people don't trust the
medical professional?
SPEAKER_02 (10:10):
What I'm that's what I'm saying.
I'm not gonna just go, I don'tbelieve any of the doctors.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
Okay, okay.
Like what you misunderstand whatI was saying.
I might have missed the sentencein there.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
I said I'm not going to throw the baby away with the
bathwater.
Okay.
Just because some of you know,I've had a few mishaps over the
last decade.
SPEAKER_00 (10:27):
Well, and the problem that I foresaw and
everything that I've read andeverything I've seen, um, is and
again, like one of the firstepisodes we did, um in fact I
think it was the first episode,the Intro to Practically
Christian podcast.
Our our very first episode.
Do you pray when you poop?
No, that was our second episode.
Um I do.
(10:49):
But in uh in our first episode,we actually talked about this,
and and the example we gavethere was like, you know, could
you tell me who won the 1916?
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
Oh, yes, I remember that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Um see, part of the problem is right now there's so
much knowledge.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
Oh, there's so much, so many different avenues to get
information that anybody can putanything on the internet and you
could look it up and go You'relistening to what's going on.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
You're doing it right, you're listening to it
right now.
Like, you know, this is a formof information being shared.
Right.
And and part of the problem thatespecially, you know, that this
University of Melbourne sees isthey know that there's this
burgeoning movement that speaksto how so-called social media
influencers hold more sway thanexperts in the field, and that
(11:40):
people are turning to YouTube aswhere they're getting their
information from.
SPEAKER_02 (11:46):
And that's hard because there are places on
YouTube you like you've gone toYouTube to look at okay, how do
I do this or how do I do that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
You can check out Mission Scent on YouTube.
We have our own channel there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
We do, right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
With a lot of good information, right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Especially workout videos.
Anyway.
List goes on.
SPEAKER_00 (12:06):
Anyway, um but like you were saying, that's the
problem.
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
There is such good information out there, and then
you have we watched that thingtoday um on the relationship
expert who probably had likemillions and millions of views
on how to um get into a goodrelationship, how to find the
right partner.
I go, you're talking aboutsomebody who's like 15 years
old, like giving I mean,probably not that young.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
But not just that.
Don't go to TikTok for stufflike that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
But you you that but that's where people are going.
And and that again, that's thehard thing.
There are things on there thatis good and true and right, but
then you have 10, 15 people ontop of that one going you going
the wrong way with it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
You know, going the opposite way, giving you bad
information.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
So so I think, you know, the these problems that
we're seeing right now are moreof a mix of you know, people
going, I'm not gonna take itanymore.
SPEAKER_02 (13:08):
Because again, the I I can't say what Well where it
says YouTube becomes the contenthub, Facebook becomes an
administrative one-stop shop forthat hub, and twit Twitter
continue Twitter continuallypushing out the messaging.
Uh Dr.
Beckett says she's likingYouTube to a sort of alternative
(13:29):
documentary channel for flatearthers.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (13:33):
And and and flat earth isn't just the one thing
that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
Right.
It it's all sorts of thisdistrust because if you you keep
reading in there, right?
You see that Pew Research foundthat two-thirds of Americans
distrust the news media andbelieve they purposely mislead
Americans.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
And I get what they're saying.
I won't even like I have peoplesend me news articles and links,
and I go not even opening that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
I mean, you're talking about like 200 million
people in America that don'ttrust what the news is telling
us.
And then I mean, look at the warin Ukraine.
SPEAKER_03 (14:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
You know, obviously I'm against 100%, you know, uh
unnecessary loss of life.
Um but you know, you you can seeYouTube videos that are sitting
here going showing another sideof it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:20):
Yeah, that's so it's hard because we're not getting
all the information.
And I think we're gonna be bentone way or another towards
something.
Um you know, only only two inten Americans say they trust the
government in Washington to dowhat's right, just about always.
And then two percent Nonineteen.
(14:40):
Oh nineteen, I'm sorry, nineteenpercent most of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
I go, that's terrible.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
It is, but again, that in lies, like, and and
don't get me wrong, like you'renot talking about these well,
yeah, you are talking aboutlarge swaths of people when when
you're looking at distrust, butlike as far as like conspiracy
theorists and and you know, thethe quote you did say from the
deleted episode, I will throw inhere.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
Noah was a conspiracy theorist, and then it
rained, and then all of a suddenit's oh it was like oh hold on,
he was right.
So I I know a lot of moms thatum are I know a guy.
I know a guy.
Um, you know, they they use alot of natural herbs and
remedies at home.
SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
Um hang on, real quick, okay?
I I understand where you'regoing with this, and I have it's
not on here.
unknown (15:29):
Dang it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
Whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
Are you done?
SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
I don't oh well I guess this one kind of goes with
it.
Keep going.
Tell us about the oils.
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
You make fun of me because I use oils?
Because I use them on you too.
Keep it up.
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
No, I'm not.
I'm not making fun of you.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
Anyway, they they I'm done.
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
I was looking for the witch one.
Because that is the inside joke.
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
Are you done?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah.
Tell everyone about yourconcoctions with witchcraft.
SPEAKER_02 (16:07):
I don't even know where I was going from.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Deep blue.
SPEAKER_02 (16:09):
Anyway.
You know moms, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
So why is it for people easy for people like you
can't just first of all, thoseare my notes.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Then don't send them to me.
Because I won't use them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Then you complain when I don't send them to you.
No, you know a bunch of moms whouse oils.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
Natural herbs and remedies.
And holistic things.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
And yes, I'm joking because I'm giving Debbie a hard
time.
Um, yes, some of those thingsare amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
So they prove their points by going, the government
wants us to give our kids XYZ,but they're telling us that we
shouldn't give our children umteas and herbs and things that
people have been using forthousands of years.
So, you know, there's a jokethat elderberry has formaldehyde
(16:57):
and like there's this whole bigthing going against it, and it's
a bunch of moms going, ha, justkidding.
That's in the vaccine orwhatever.
Right.
So their point is you can't justgo with whatever people are
telling you.
SPEAKER_03 (17:09):
Oh, no, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
So I get it.
You threw me off before, sothat's what I was trying to say.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
I got an oil for that cough.
I do have an oil for it.
Get you some lemongrass, breathein some breathe.
And and again, I am just pokingfun at that.
Um you gotta do it right intothe microphone.
SPEAKER_02 (17:31):
I don't mean to.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
There we go.
We we just can turn your channeldown.
SPEAKER_02 (17:39):
Okay, thank you.
So sorry, you guys.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
I am just poking fun.
Um there are a lot of naturalremedies out there.
Um that yeah, I I think thereare corporations that that are
sitting here going, no, we wantto suppress this information.
Right.
Because in the end, we're gonnalose money.
It's gonna cost us money.
SPEAKER_02 (17:57):
Follow the money, follow the science, whatever.
Like sometimes they go together.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
So so in looking at that, and looking at the problem
is the distrust in institutions,that's why, you know, where
where you were going.
So why is it so easy for peopleto believe in flat Earth or
other conspiracy, you know,aliens, Area 50.
Remember a couple years ago theywere going to rush Area 50.
SPEAKER_02 (18:20):
Area 51, right?
It's because they don't trustmuch else besides themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
With reason.
Like it's it's not like there'snot reason.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Exactly.
And that's where I was Idefinitely want to make sure we
throw that in there.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
There is definitely so I go, you just give people a
little bit of reason not totrust, and by nature, we're
like, we don't want to trustanyway, especially in the day
and age we're living in.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:44):
And so you just find a little hole in something, and
then that's it.
I'm done.
I I know I'm like that with alot of things.
And I mean, am I not?
SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
Yeah, and I agree with that to a certain extent.
Um I do.
I am very skeptical by nature.
Right.
Um, and and let's be honest,being skeptical is not
necessarily a bad thing.
SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
There's nothing wrong with asking questions.
SPEAKER_00 (19:10):
No.
There's nothing wrong withgoing, hold on.
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
Hold on, what are you saying?
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
I this one might sound crazy to our listeners
today.
There's nothing wrong withhaving common sense and going,
does this make sense?
SPEAKER_02 (19:25):
And if it doesn't make sense, so to quote Dwight
Shrood.
SPEAKER_00 (19:30):
Oh gosh.
Before I do anything, I askmyself, would an idiot do this?
SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
Right, right.
Is does he have something in hismouth?
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
No, he's sh he's literally chewing on the door
jam.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Oh, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00 (19:45):
But but again, like there's nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
It's not a child chewing on the door jam.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
It's our dog.
There's nothing wrong withhaving skepticism.
There's nothing wrong withasking questions.
There's nothing wrong withdigging deeper.
In fact, I would argue asChristians, you're supposed to
that's what you're called to.
SPEAKER_02 (20:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Stop saying, oh, my pastor said, and start going,
oh, Jesus said.
SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
So you your question here is why don't people trust
the way they used to?
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
And and I think we kind of covered that though.
I mean, seriously, like we'reconsistently being lied to.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
And then why would we trust?
Right, and then leading into asChristians reasons people don't
trust in the church anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (20:27):
Well there was something else I need to talk
about before we jump to that,but but um it's not it's it's
not necessarily we don't trustindividuals.
Right.
As much as it's we don't trustinstitutions.
Right, right, right.
You know, why don't we trust thegovernment?
Well, I mean, we can go throughand look at all of the different
(20:50):
ways why we shouldn't trust thegovernment.
Right.
All of the lies.
I mean, you can go back andespecially in America.
I mean, you can go back, youknow, to the founding of America
and go.
This is why I don't trust.
Right.
You know.
Why don't we trust, you know, inin seriously, even and again,
I'm just gonna look at thisthrough the scope of America
(21:11):
because we live in America,right?
Um, so if you're listening tothis from somewhere else, we
would love to hear what you haveto say about it.
Um, especially I would love tohear what you have to say about
it, especially concerning whatyou think of America.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Of America, right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
Because that's been my new big thing on YouTube is
listening to news outlets fromother countries, yeah, other
countries in the world.
That's devastating heresometimes.
Um but I go, like, you know,when when you think of trusting
institutions and you look atlike the defund police movement,
I'm former law enforcement, I amvery pro law enforcement.
(21:46):
I think law enforcement is anecessity.
Right.
Um, because you sometimes needviolent people to do violence on
your behalf so that you cansleep well at night.
Right.
Okay, that's why we have amilitary, that's why we have law
enforcement.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
On the same note.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
On the same note is that power abused.
SPEAKER_02 (22:03):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:04):
Yes, there are many cases.
Okay, I'm not I'm not gonna saymajority, I think the vast
majority.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
They get into it to do good.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Yes, and and you know, genuinely have a desire
for justice.
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Are there exceptions to that rule?
SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
150%.
And and so when we start lookingat like why we don't trust
institutions, it's becausepeople have done things in those
institutions to cause thecommunity to not trust.
Now, since this is practicallyChristian podcast, yes, the
institution we're gonna focus onmost here is the church.
So, what are some reasons peopledon't trust the church?
(22:44):
Well, let's start with the mostobvious and plain one embezzling
money.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
I mean, look how many times it's come out.
I mean, the Vatican City.
Okay, and we're not Catholic,but Vatican City is actually the
richest city in the world.
Why?
Because the church went, this isall ours.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
Right.
Give us more money.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
You know, then you have, you know, people like um
Jim and Tammy Baker, is thattheir names?
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
You know, with their amusement park that they were
gonna do, and people weresending all this money, and oh
it wasn't an amusement park.
You know, you have pastors allday on TV that are like, hey,
send us a check for this andwe'll send you a blessing.
Send us a check for this andwe'll send you this.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
And then you come to find out that they're flying
around in private jets, spendingfifteen thousand dollars a night
going to Greek countries.
Yeah, they're wearing shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
I mean, Costi Hinn had an amazing uh an amazing
article uh maybe a a year or twoago that that he wrote about his
own experience in growing up.
Um, you know, you see uh HarvestFest uh was it Harvest Fest
Festival?
No, uh, I think that's parts andcorrect Harvest International,
(24:03):
maybe anyway.
Again, another big blow-up overmoney.
Right.
You know, sex scandals.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
Oh, that's all over the place.
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
Like we're most people are familiar with
Catholic priest and and theirsex scandals.
I just found out a couple ofmonths ago, you know, the
Southern Baptist Con uhConvention is doing an
investigation with from the DOJbecause of the same thing.
Right.
Because all of these things havebeen happening in churches and
(24:32):
it's being covered up.
Right.
Um abusive practices.
unknown (24:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
You know, we we we looked at it with law
enforcement, you know, butseriously, the church has been
doing this too.
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
You know, um the guy you met at um at the Ladybird uh
ladybug festival.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
That you were there for for oils.
I was there doing an oildisplay, and but but you wound
up talking to this guy and andwhat happened?
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
So um we were talking and he was he told me
how cool he thought I was, andwe were I mean he was he did.
He told me I was really cool andwe had a great conversation.
Um he's gay, and he I we weretalking, and it came up that you
were a pastor, and he said, Oh,I never would have imagined that
you were a Christian.
(25:17):
I said, Well, why?
Or he said, a Christian, or thatyou would be a Christian and
talk to me.
And I said, Why?
And he said, You're just so niceand welcoming, and you've made
me feel so comfortable.
And I said, Well, why wouldn'tI?
I mean, Jesus loves people, whywould I not love people?
And he told me when he wasgrowing up, he went to a church
and he came out and told one ofthe elders that he was
(25:39):
struggling with same-sexattraction and he didn't know
what to do, so they sent him tosome like camp to like camp it
out of him, straight camp orsomething, and then he came back
and scared straight somethinglike that, and then they like
held him down and did like somelike I don't it sounded like
like some type of exorcism onhim where all the men like held
(25:59):
him down to pray for where we'regonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
They were gonna pray it out of him, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:03):
And um, and then eventually they shunned him and
then kicked him out of thechurch, and he said he's never
stepped back into a churchagain.
And I I mean I had tears justfalling down my face, and I
hugged him and I said, I'm sosorry that people who claimed to
love Jesus treated you likethat.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
Because that's not what God calls us to do.
And he cried and he gave me ahug, and I've seen him around
town here and there, and healways waves to me, but it was
just like this interaction withpeople who are called to love
Christ and love people left himwounded for forever.
SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
And again, don't get me wrong, just like with law
enforcement, where I think thevast majority of law enforcement
want to do good are are tryingto do the right thing.
Or church planters, yes, and Ithink the vast majority of
people that go into ministry aretrying to do the right thing.
They mean well, right.
But again, what we have tounderstand is, you know, if you
(26:58):
look at this recently, okay, andand I'm not getting into it
because I am not like behindclosed doors with any of these
people, but you know, we haveyou know the rise and fall of
Mars Hill.
There's a whole podcast aboutthat, about you know, the rise
of Mart Driscoll, the fall ofMart Driscoll.
You you have um whatever Iforget the Hillsong thing that
we watched on TV, thedocumentary or whatever that
(27:20):
that I don't even remember whatit was called.
It was all about Carl Lentz andum you know the the the rise and
fall of uh Brian Houston.
Brian Houston, the Houstonfamily, right?
Rise and fall of of HillsongChurch, you know.
Then we have money, sex, drugs,and seriously, and one of the
most heartbreaking ones for me,you know, with with Matt
Chandler stepping down.
Again, I'm not talking into anyof these things because I don't
(27:41):
know you weren't even there.
I don't know the any of thesepeople personally.
What I do know is when otherpeople see that they go, aha,
that's why.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
That's why I don't go to church, that's why I don't
trust Christians.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Even though I don't know them, they don't know me,
all of that.
We have to understand that justlike with the small amount of
police that spurned this wholedefund police movement, it's the
same thing.
It's a small I I think the vastmajority of Christ followers
genuinely love Jesus and aregenuinely trying to do the right
(28:16):
thing.
Right.
But that small number that itruins it for everybody.
Everything we just talked about,that creates a lot of distrust
in people.
Right.
And and so if we're looking atthis, and and really when we get
into this conspiracy theoriesand and you know the flat earth
and and all of that stuff, isn'tthis really what we're talking
(28:37):
about?
Is distrust.
SPEAKER_02 (28:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Is sitting here going like your information may
be correct, it may be right, butI don't trust you.
I'm gonna listen to you becauseI don't trust you.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
Right.
And I don't trust you because ofall these other things that
happened.
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
I trust you, Phyllis.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Trust you, Phyllis.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Like, but isn't that really what it is?
So so I think the topic thenturns to, well, then how again,
practically Christian podcasts.
Here's some practical ways foryou to live out your faith.
How do we rebuild thecommunity's trust in the church?
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Well, Josh has written out a very clear way to
do that.
Number one.
SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Number one is be present.
You know, be present in thecommunity.
SPEAKER_02 (29:18):
We have a propensity to hide in little bubbles.
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
And and just we're just gonna eat at Chick-fil-A.
We're just gonna shop at HobbyLobby.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Barbecue at Four Rivers only.
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
First of all, although we would do that even
if we were yes, if you work atFour Rivers, I love you, and
thank you so much for yourdelicious food.
It is blessed.
It really is.
Yeah.
Um, the Lord's barbecue.
It is the Lord's barbecue.
I do think that's what we will Ithink it's gonna be a
combination Chick-fil-AChick-fil-A and Four Rivers at
(29:51):
the the wedding feast of thelamb.
Don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
There might be lamb there too, but anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
But we have this tendency to to just like
Surround ourselves with just us.
Yep.
And and and we're gonna keep allthe bad things out there and and
we're just gonna kind of hunkerdown.
SPEAKER_03 (30:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Understand when when Jesus talks about building the
church in Matthew 16, he says,you know, when you know Peter
declares him as the Christ, andand Jesus goes, you know, upon
this rock, I will build mychurch.
Upon the understanding that I amexactly who I claim to be, I
will build this my church.
Right.
And the gates of hell will notprevail.
SPEAKER_01 (30:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Okay, well, prevail in that sense is a defensive
language.
In other words, the church isgoing to be attacking the gates
of hell.
Not defending themselves.
They're not going to be able tostand up.
Right.
Where I think we take it theother way.
We want to hunker down and letthe gates of hell try to push
into us.
SPEAKER_02 (30:48):
And then we want to spring into action out of.
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
No, we don't.
SPEAKER_02 (30:52):
Sometimes we have to.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Sometimes we're forced to.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
That's what I'm saying.
Like that we have to dosomething now.
SPEAKER_00 (30:57):
But I go, you know, it's reactive not being
proactive.
Yeah, and by then you're you'reso behind, you're never going to
be able to run fast enough tocatch up.
So the first thing we need to doto rebuild the the community
trust in the church is we haveto, as the church, be present in
the community.
Be it games, be it footballgames.
(31:18):
Like, you know, volunteer.
Volunteer, you know, go to thefarmer's market, you know,
engage with the community.
SPEAKER_02 (31:26):
And don't engage with people speaking
Christianese.
Engage with them as a person.
As a human being, as a person.
Not not with your I mean, I'mnot saying tracks are bad, but
not, you know, you don't have tohave your Bible in one hand and
then, you know, your tract inthe other.
Just be there, haveconversations.
Yeah.
Buy somebody coffee.
Go to lunch with somebody thatyou don't know that well, or
(31:49):
that you just met at thefarmer's market.
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
So we're gonna be present.
The next one is we need to beopen.
Okay.
We we need to get out of thisidea that that the pastor and
church leaders are areunapproachable.
SPEAKER_02 (32:04):
They're not accessible.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
There is nothing special about me except for
except your um student loan loanbill that said they taught me
how to study the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Right.
And I mean, and there's there'sworth in that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
Um Right, but what I'm saying is that whole idea
about I'm the anointed one ofGod.
Right.
If we're looking at it in thesense that anointed just means
set apart for a specificpurpose.
SPEAKER_02 (32:28):
We all are.
Thank you.
Anyone that God has calledHimself, a royal priesthood of
Yep.
You know We are all set apart,ears and co-ears.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:36):
There's nothing intrinsically special about
that.
We need to be open.
We need to open up our houses.
We need to have our neighborsinside our houses.
We need to, you know, be able tohave our friends and our
coworkers and and you know, upin our house, eating dinner,
right, barbecuing, joking,swimming, doing all of those
(32:57):
things.
SPEAKER_02 (32:57):
Watching you discipline your kids, all of the
things.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
That sounds like being present.
Being present means being out inthe community, being open means
bringing the community to bepart of your life.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Right.
Doing the things that you do.
Or doing what they do.
Be transparent is your numberthree.
SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
Be transparent.
People learn, we have tounderstand, people learn from
watching our struggles just asmuch as they learn from watching
our triumphs.
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
So there's that shirt, it's fine, I'm fine,
everything's fine.
Um, it's not.
And it's okay that it's not.
You can go, yes, I'm hot messexpress today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
Well, and understand, people, you know,
people may be looking at yougoing, how do they keep it
together?
You know, be transparent though.
Like the there's nothing more Ihate.
In fact, you can be prtransparent when you go to
service this week.
Stop walking into the buildinggoing, Oh, but such a great
week.
(33:53):
Some of y'all didn't have a goodweek.
And it's okay.
SPEAKER_02 (33:57):
And somebody else might need to hear that you
didn't have a bad week so theycan go, oh my gosh, me either.
It was awful.
And then you may not want toshare, but that might be the
open opportunity for them toshare and get off of their chest
and be able to have that supportthat we own, like we all need to
have that support.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
And that's what I mean.
The more transparent we are.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
My spouse was driving me crazy, my kids were
driving me up the wall, the dogwouldn't stop barking at night,
I can't pay my bill.
This whatever, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
Can you overshare?
Yes.
Absolutely.
There is definitely a line.
SPEAKER_02 (34:27):
Use wisdom and discernment.
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
But like when it comes to money, we are a
nonprofit organization.
SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
Yeah, way on the money.
SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
Okay.
We have money coming in, but Ihave no problem.
Like, we are open with hey, thisis where our money is going too.
SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
Yep, anyone's welcome to look at it.
This is what comes in, this iswhat goes out.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
You know?
Number four, be honest.
This one should go withoutsaying.
But if you want people to trustyou, you gotta be honest.
Even when it's gonna cost yousome popularity points.
Yeah.
Like, can you define a woman?
(35:06):
Yes, I can.
SPEAKER_02 (35:08):
Moving on.
SPEAKER_00 (35:09):
But I'm just saying, like, be honest.
Be genuine, be real.
Like, you know, as far as honestgoes.
Like, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Be genuine, be real.
You know, don't put on thisfacade.
Don't play the part.
Like, understand the wordhypocrite literally translates
(35:30):
as an actor playing the part.
Like, the reason why people willstand here and go, You're a
hypocrite, is because you are.
So am I.
Like, we all go, okay, we havethese parts to play because
we're afraid that if we'rereally.
SPEAKER_02 (35:48):
I don't want people to see me and I don't want to be
vulnerable in front of people.
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
Right, and then they're not gonna like me.
SPEAKER_02 (35:53):
Or they might have something to hold over my head.
SPEAKER_00 (35:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (35:57):
Or I go, well, I mean, you've said it over.
What are you gonna hold over myhead?
I'm honest, I'm open.
SPEAKER_00 (36:02):
Right.
Build your own narrative.
Right.
You know?
And lastly, what we want to lookat is be a community.
We gotta get past the one-manshow.
Right.
Mission sent is not Josh Lively.
I am part of it.
I serve a role and a function ofit.
But every single person whogoes, This is my home, is just
(36:26):
as much a part of it.
Right.
And and like, you know, and Isay it at the end of every
service, we say it at the end ofevery podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
We love you, we need you.
You cannot do this without you.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
We love you, we thank you, and we can't do it
without you because we can't.
We're not called to do this byourselves.
SPEAKER_02 (36:44):
I was thinking the Golden Corral commercial, it
threw me off.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
We love you and we need you at the Golden
Commander.
But I go, we're not called to dothis alone.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
Like, and and some of the problem with what we see
in falls, like of big churchesand things like that, is because
when we get all secretive witheverything, if it's just me and
my ability to to determinewhat's right and wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
You're gonna get it wrong every time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Well, maybe not every time, but I'm definitely
gonna get shady at times too.
Like, I mean, we I I'll behonest, I cheat at board games
sometimes now.
No, like if like if JT's winningor something, like I might sneak
a card or two.
You know?
So I go sorry, son.
But I go, we have to be acommunity, we have to be, you
(37:37):
know, vulnerable with eachother, we have to be there for
each other, we have tounderstand that there is no one,
like the only amazing personthat is part of any church is
Jesus.
Other than that, everybody isreplaceable, right?
So I go, so that's why we we areconstantly going, let's look to
Jesus.
(37:57):
So why should we care?
Why should we, as asinstitutions go, we want to
build trust in our communitybecause Jesus cared.
Because our mission is to seekand save what is lost.
Right.
And we can't do that effectivelyif they don't trust us or our
(38:19):
message.
Like, understand that.
Like, how effective are you iflike the whole time you're
talking, the person in the backof their mind that you're
talking to is sitting heregoing, I don't trust you.
Like right out the gate.
And everybody you roan into,especially here in America, you
would be hard pressed to findsomeone who's never heard of
Jesus in America.
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
It seems like everybody has that story.
So they they're already on edge.
They already are sitting heregoing, you know, because of the
reasons we talked about earlier,we don't trust you.
So why would they listen to whatI have to say when it comes to,
I don't know, their view ofgender identity or their view of
(39:04):
abortion, or their view, likehow am I gonna enter into all of
these tough conversations?
Right.
These uncomfortable, murky,nasty conversations.
If they don't trust you.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (39:16):
Just I mean, off the bat.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
So it it's really hard to be able to seek and save
what is lost if they don't trustyou.
SPEAKER_03 (39:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
And so this week, that's what it is.
And that is really when we lookat conspiracy theories, what we
have to say, because this weekwe challenge you to have a
one-on-one conversation withsomeone outside of your comfort
zone.
Have the grace to understandthat they may not trust you or
your motives behind it, but atleast talk to them about it.
(39:50):
Be present, open, transparent,honest, and start building
community.
We love you.
We thank you, and we can't dothis without the first time.
You're listening to practically Christian podcasts.
Taking all that information yougot all in your brain and giving
you real practical application.
(00:25):
Oh, thank you, thank you, thankyou so much for the applause and
the love.
Welcome to Hello.
Welcome to Practically ChristianPodcast.
SPEAKER_02 (00:37):
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:39):
So that was pretty loud, my bad.
So I have a new soundboardtoday?
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Why?
SPEAKER_00 (00:46):
All new sounds.
Oh gosh.
Because I was bored.
And I found stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
You get in trouble when you're bored.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
Now that being said, well, everybody gets in trouble
when they're bored, let's behonest.
SPEAKER_02 (00:57):
That's true.
SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
Now that being said, that is not what we are
currently discussing on today'sepisode.
Um, just a little backstoryabout today's episode.
It was supposed to come out onWednesday.
SPEAKER_02 (01:09):
And we did record.
SPEAKER_00 (01:11):
And I absolutely hated it.
It was rough.
I don't want that to be a goodrepresent I I did not find that
a good representation of whatyou know to be true.
So so that one got deleted.
And you know, it's it's it's onthe same topic.
(01:32):
Have no fear.
It is.
Um not that you knew what thetopic was anyway.
You didn't.
Um but but anyway, this one'sgonna be much better.
I have I have made thatresolution as long as our dog
who is now joining us in thepodcast booth stays quiet.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Welcome, sir.
SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
He's probably not gonna add a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
But he doesn't add a lot.
He takes a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Today's topic is seriously, it's one that I was
really like super excited to do.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Um It just got away from us.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
It really did.
But um, just to give a littlebackground info, um I was
talking with another teacher atwork after work one day, and and
the conversation went throughlike at least ten different
topics.
And then it got two.
And then all of a sudden theywere like, Do you b do you
(02:29):
believe that the earth is flat?
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Which that really made the conversation an
extensive at first Well, atfirst I thought it was like Did
you okay when they said that toyou, because I walked away.
Did you giggle?
Did you think they were joking?
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
I did, and I started joking back, you know, and then
you felt bad.
Oh, how absurd.
SPEAKER_02 (02:53):
And then I realized you know, a couple of sentences
in.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
I was like, oh, they're serious, they're being
like serious.
And and and and the otherteacher I was talking to, like
they don't believe that theearth was flat.
They were just asking they well,they did a lot of research.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Um, and and they're not saying that the world is
flat.
They're not saying that theworld's not flat.
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
But they're questioning.
SPEAKER_00 (03:16):
They're questioning.
Right.
Um, which yes, at first I didthink it was a joke because you
know You're going, there's noway.
Most people believe that umPythagoras in about 500 BC, the
guy that gave us the guess whattheorem.
Pythagorean.
(03:36):
Yeah, the Pythagorean theorem.
Yeah, that makes sense.
He um he had already came outand said in in 500 BC that the
earth is round.
Right.
Um, you know, in uh somesomewhere around there because
of eclipses of a lunar eclipse,and and they went, hey, if the
(03:56):
earth is putting a shadow on themoon, it has to it has to be
around because that's what theshadow is.
SPEAKER_03 (04:02):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Okay.
Now, fast forward, becauseobviously we are way past 500
BC.
Right.
Um, so fast forward some 2500years, and it's a resurgence
almost.
I mean, even if you you go backto you know, Christopher
Columbus's days, and I don'tknow if people out there
(04:23):
remember um learning about it,the reasons like people, you
know, the the whole theory wasyou couldn't sail anywhere
because if you went too close,you'd fall off the edge that the
earth was flat.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
That was the fear.
SPEAKER_00 (04:36):
You know, because these ships would leave and not
come back and and never comeback.
So they these people must havegone somewhere.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Right.
They didn't re they didn't theyfigure they went off the side of
the the earth.
SPEAKER_00 (04:46):
Right.
And and I'm gonna be honest, youknow, you you've already given
us four and a half minutes ofyour time.
So if you're waiting to hear ifit's flat or not.
Yes, proof of bump bum bump.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
If you're waiting to hear That was really loud.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
No answers.
We're not gonna get to it.
SPEAKER_02 (05:11):
Um That is not the point.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Yeah, the point isn't is the world flat or
round?
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
Um I think Of course he never barks, and then of
course now you're gonna bark.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Um he apparently decided uh-uh, go.
He apparently decided He wantedto um to um be a part of the
episode.
He did.
You we're not here to discusswhether or not the earth is
round or or flat.
Right.
Um I am a believer that it's notthat is round.
Um I think the majority ofevidence nowadays would support
(05:48):
that.
Right.
However, I do want to look intothis a little deeper because as
I started researching, once Ifound out that this other
teacher was being dead seriousand and it was an interesting
topic, um, I did start reading alot of articles about it.
I did start reading and watchingsome YouTube videos about it,
(06:08):
and and it is a much biggerphenomenon than I would have
ever given it credit for in theyear 2022.
SPEAKER_02 (06:17):
And it's not just coming from people that don't
believe in Jesus because a lotof people think that's what
happens.
SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
This is coming from people who there are Christians
that that believe this as well,yes.
And according to uh the websitepursuit.university of Melbourne
dot edu.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Australia.
SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
Yes, this is an Australian G'day, mate.
Throw another shrimp on theBobby.
SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
What?
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
Keep going.
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Like there's not American stereotypes all over
the world.
SPEAKER_02 (06:49):
Of course there is McDonald's, franchise.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
I'm sure there's someone right now listening to
this episode going, I'm just ashoot my guns off.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
Okay, keep coming.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Keep it coming.
But anyway, according to thewebsite, it says, you know,
concerning flat earth theory.
And it's getting more tractionthan some of the other
conspiracies out there.
Like chemtrails.
Right.
Which propose that a plane'slong-lasting condensation trail
is actually made up of chemicalor a biological agent.
(07:20):
Like, like there are conspiracy,like this is like a rabbit hole
of things to get lost.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
You can get lost in it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
Like most conspiracy theories.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
Oh yeah.
Like, you know, are aliens real?
You know, who shot Kennedy?
Um, you know, like, does theshould I am I allowed to say it?
Does the Illuminati exist?
You know, they're probablymonitoring this.
I mean, I know every bite ofinformation that that comes
through on the internet ismonitored somewhere.
(07:50):
I assume it is.
Um But when you really startdiving into this and you really
start looking at all thesedifferent things you can get
into, we understand that it'snot so much is the worst world
flat around.
It's, you know, according to thesame website, well, in part,
(08:11):
according to the School ofCulture and Communication
Lecturer, Dr.
Jennifer Beckett, it's due to ageneral shift towards populism
and a distrust in the views ofexperts and mainstream media.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
With reason.
In Spanish, we say con razón.
There's a reason people aremistrusting and disbelieving and
not, you know, not trusting whatthe higher, you know, the higher
what's the word I can't evensay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Well well, here, I'm gonna quote Dr.
Jennifer Beckett again umbecause she said it's really
about the power of knowledge andthat increasing distrust in what
we once considered to be thegatekeepers of knowledge, like
academics, scientific agencies,or the government.
SPEAKER_02 (08:57):
And honestly, you I'm not I'm not saying I buy
into any of these conspiracytheories, but I get I do get
where people are coming fromwith distrust.
I mean, me personally goingthrough things physically,
medically, having to go throughdoctor after doctor.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
And it's funny you bring that up because one of the
Pew studies I read today um wastalking about how doctors are
actually the most trustedprofession in America with
eighty-two percent of peopleblindly just trusting the
doctor.
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
I'm on the other side of that or you are the
eighteen percent.
I'm the eighteen percent thatI've had to go through so much
and you know, kind of telldoctors what's going on.
Um so I get going, I don't carewhat your degree is, I don't
care what you went to schoolfor, I don't I don't believe
you.
I don't think you know whatyou're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Oh, I agree a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02 (09:50):
So I get it, but I'm not saying that just because a
few doctors I've gone to didn'tdo their due diligence that I'm
just gonna throw the baby outwith the bathwater.
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
Right.
Are you like we're not trying topropagate people don't trust the
medical professional?
SPEAKER_02 (10:10):
What I'm that's what I'm saying.
I'm not gonna just go, I don'tbelieve any of the doctors.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
Okay, okay.
Like what you misunderstand whatI was saying.
I might have missed the sentencein there.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
I said I'm not going to throw the baby away with the
bathwater.
Okay.
Just because some of you know,I've had a few mishaps over the
last decade.
SPEAKER_00 (10:27):
Well, and the problem that I foresaw and
everything that I've read andeverything I've seen, um, is and
again, like one of the firstepisodes we did, um in fact I
think it was the first episode,the Intro to Practically
Christian podcast.
Our our very first episode.
Do you pray when you poop?
No, that was our second episode.
Um I do.
(10:49):
But in uh in our first episode,we actually talked about this,
and and the example we gavethere was like, you know, could
you tell me who won the 1916?
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
Oh, yes, I remember that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Um see, part of the problem is right now there's so
much knowledge.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
Oh, there's so much, so many different avenues to get
information that anybody can putanything on the internet and you
could look it up and go You'relistening to what's going on.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
You're doing it right, you're listening to it
right now.
Like, you know, this is a formof information being shared.
Right.
And and part of the problem thatespecially, you know, that this
University of Melbourne sees isthey know that there's this
burgeoning movement that speaksto how so-called social media
influencers hold more sway thanexperts in the field, and that
(11:40):
people are turning to YouTube aswhere they're getting their
information from.
SPEAKER_02 (11:46):
And that's hard because there are places on
YouTube you like you've gone toYouTube to look at okay, how do
I do this or how do I do that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
You can check out Mission Scent on YouTube.
We have our own channel there.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
We do, right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
With a lot of good information, right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:59):
Especially workout videos.
Anyway.
List goes on.
SPEAKER_00 (12:06):
Anyway, um but like you were saying, that's the
problem.
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
There is such good information out there, and then
you have we watched that thingtoday um on the relationship
expert who probably had likemillions and millions of views
on how to um get into a goodrelationship, how to find the
right partner.
I go, you're talking aboutsomebody who's like 15 years
old, like giving I mean,probably not that young.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
But not just that.
Don't go to TikTok for stufflike that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
But you you that but that's where people are going.
And and that again, that's thehard thing.
There are things on there thatis good and true and right, but
then you have 10, 15 people ontop of that one going you going
the wrong way with it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:49):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
You know, going the opposite way, giving you bad
information.
SPEAKER_00 (12:53):
So so I think, you know, the these problems that
we're seeing right now are moreof a mix of you know, people
going, I'm not gonna take itanymore.
SPEAKER_02 (13:08):
Because again, the I I can't say what Well where it
says YouTube becomes the contenthub, Facebook becomes an
administrative one-stop shop forthat hub, and twit Twitter
continue Twitter continuallypushing out the messaging.
Uh Dr.
Beckett says she's likingYouTube to a sort of alternative
(13:29):
documentary channel for flatearthers.
SPEAKER_00 (13:32):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (13:33):
And and and flat earth isn't just the one thing
that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
Right.
It it's all sorts of thisdistrust because if you you keep
reading in there, right?
You see that Pew Research foundthat two-thirds of Americans
distrust the news media andbelieve they purposely mislead
Americans.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
And I get what they're saying.
I won't even like I have peoplesend me news articles and links,
and I go not even opening that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
I mean, you're talking about like 200 million
people in America that don'ttrust what the news is telling
us.
And then I mean, look at the warin Ukraine.
SPEAKER_03 (14:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
You know, obviously I'm against 100%, you know, uh
unnecessary loss of life.
Um but you know, you you can seeYouTube videos that are sitting
here going showing another sideof it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:20):
Yeah, that's so it's hard because we're not getting
all the information.
And I think we're gonna be bentone way or another towards
something.
Um you know, only only two inten Americans say they trust the
government in Washington to dowhat's right, just about always.
And then two percent Nonineteen.
(14:40):
Oh nineteen, I'm sorry, nineteenpercent most of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
I go, that's terrible.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
It is, but again, that in lies, like, and and
don't get me wrong, like you'renot talking about these well,
yeah, you are talking aboutlarge swaths of people when when
you're looking at distrust, butlike as far as like conspiracy
theorists and and you know, thethe quote you did say from the
deleted episode, I will throw inhere.
SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
Noah was a conspiracy theorist, and then it
rained, and then all of a suddenit's oh it was like oh hold on,
he was right.
So I I know a lot of moms thatum are I know a guy.
I know a guy.
Um, you know, they they use alot of natural herbs and
remedies at home.
SPEAKER_00 (15:21):
Um hang on, real quick, okay?
I I understand where you'regoing with this, and I have it's
not on here.
unknown (15:29):
Dang it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
Whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
Are you done?
SPEAKER_00 (15:32):
I don't oh well I guess this one kind of goes with
it.
Keep going.
Tell us about the oils.
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
You make fun of me because I use oils?
Because I use them on you too.
Keep it up.
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
No, I'm not.
I'm not making fun of you.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
Anyway, they they I'm done.
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
I was looking for the witch one.
Because that is the inside joke.
SPEAKER_02 (16:01):
Are you done?
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah.
Tell everyone about yourconcoctions with witchcraft.
SPEAKER_02 (16:07):
I don't even know where I was going from.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Deep blue.
SPEAKER_02 (16:09):
Anyway.
You know moms, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
So why is it for people easy for people like you
can't just first of all, thoseare my notes.
Okay.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Then don't send them to me.
Because I won't use them.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Then you complain when I don't send them to you.
No, you know a bunch of moms whouse oils.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
Natural herbs and remedies.
And holistic things.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
And yes, I'm joking because I'm giving Debbie a hard
time.
Um, yes, some of those thingsare amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
So they prove their points by going, the government
wants us to give our kids XYZ,but they're telling us that we
shouldn't give our children umteas and herbs and things that
people have been using forthousands of years.
So, you know, there's a jokethat elderberry has formaldehyde
(16:57):
and like there's this whole bigthing going against it, and it's
a bunch of moms going, ha, justkidding.
That's in the vaccine orwhatever.
Right.
So their point is you can't justgo with whatever people are
telling you.
SPEAKER_03 (17:09):
Oh, no, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
So I get it.
You threw me off before, sothat's what I was trying to say.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
I got an oil for that cough.
I do have an oil for it.
Get you some lemongrass, breathein some breathe.
And and again, I am just pokingfun at that.
Um you gotta do it right intothe microphone.
SPEAKER_02 (17:31):
I don't mean to.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
There we go.
We we just can turn your channeldown.
SPEAKER_02 (17:39):
Okay, thank you.
So sorry, you guys.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
I am just poking fun.
Um there are a lot of naturalremedies out there.
Um that yeah, I I think thereare corporations that that are
sitting here going, no, we wantto suppress this information.
Right.
Because in the end, we're gonnalose money.
It's gonna cost us money.
SPEAKER_02 (17:57):
Follow the money, follow the science, whatever.
Like sometimes they go together.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
So so in looking at that, and looking at the problem
is the distrust in institutions,that's why, you know, where
where you were going.
So why is it so easy for peopleto believe in flat Earth or
other conspiracy, you know,aliens, Area 50.
Remember a couple years ago theywere going to rush Area 50.
SPEAKER_02 (18:20):
Area 51, right?
It's because they don't trustmuch else besides themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
With reason.
Like it's it's not like there'snot reason.
SPEAKER_00 (18:28):
Exactly.
And that's where I was Idefinitely want to make sure we
throw that in there.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
There is definitely so I go, you just give people a
little bit of reason not totrust, and by nature, we're
like, we don't want to trustanyway, especially in the day
and age we're living in.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:44):
And so you just find a little hole in something, and
then that's it.
I'm done.
I I know I'm like that with alot of things.
And I mean, am I not?
SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
Yeah, and I agree with that to a certain extent.
Um I do.
I am very skeptical by nature.
Right.
Um, and and let's be honest,being skeptical is not
necessarily a bad thing.
SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
There's nothing wrong with asking questions.
SPEAKER_00 (19:10):
No.
There's nothing wrong withgoing, hold on.
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
Hold on, what are you saying?
SPEAKER_00 (19:14):
I this one might sound crazy to our listeners
today.
There's nothing wrong withhaving common sense and going,
does this make sense?
SPEAKER_02 (19:25):
And if it doesn't make sense, so to quote Dwight
Shrood.
SPEAKER_00 (19:30):
Oh gosh.
Before I do anything, I askmyself, would an idiot do this?
SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
Right, right.
Is does he have something in hismouth?
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
No, he's sh he's literally chewing on the door
jam.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Oh, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00 (19:45):
But but again, like there's nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
It's not a child chewing on the door jam.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
It's our dog.
There's nothing wrong withhaving skepticism.
There's nothing wrong withasking questions.
There's nothing wrong withdigging deeper.
In fact, I would argue asChristians, you're supposed to
that's what you're called to.
SPEAKER_02 (20:03):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Stop saying, oh, my pastor said, and start going,
oh, Jesus said.
SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
So you your question here is why don't people trust
the way they used to?
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
And and I think we kind of covered that though.
I mean, seriously, like we'reconsistently being lied to.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
And then why would we trust?
Right, and then leading into asChristians reasons people don't
trust in the church anymore.
SPEAKER_00 (20:27):
Well there was something else I need to talk
about before we jump to that,but but um it's not it's it's
not necessarily we don't trustindividuals.
Right.
As much as it's we don't trustinstitutions.
Right, right, right.
You know, why don't we trust thegovernment?
Well, I mean, we can go throughand look at all of the different
(20:50):
ways why we shouldn't trust thegovernment.
Right.
All of the lies.
I mean, you can go back andespecially in America.
I mean, you can go back, youknow, to the founding of America
and go.
This is why I don't trust.
Right.
You know.
Why don't we trust, you know, inin seriously, even and again,
I'm just gonna look at thisthrough the scope of America
(21:11):
because we live in America,right?
Um, so if you're listening tothis from somewhere else, we
would love to hear what you haveto say about it.
Um, especially I would love tohear what you have to say about
it, especially concerning whatyou think of America.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
Of America, right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
Because that's been my new big thing on YouTube is
listening to news outlets fromother countries, yeah, other
countries in the world.
That's devastating heresometimes.
Um but I go, like, you know,when when you think of trusting
institutions and you look atlike the defund police movement,
I'm former law enforcement, I amvery pro law enforcement.
(21:46):
I think law enforcement is anecessity.
Right.
Um, because you sometimes needviolent people to do violence on
your behalf so that you cansleep well at night.
Right.
Okay, that's why we have amilitary, that's why we have law
enforcement.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
On the same note.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
On the same note is that power abused.
SPEAKER_02 (22:03):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:04):
Yes, there are many cases.
Okay, I'm not I'm not gonna saymajority, I think the vast
majority.
SPEAKER_02 (22:11):
They get into it to do good.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Yes, and and you know, genuinely have a desire
for justice.
SPEAKER_02 (22:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Are there exceptions to that rule?
SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
150%.
And and so when we start lookingat like why we don't trust
institutions, it's becausepeople have done things in those
institutions to cause thecommunity to not trust.
Now, since this is practicallyChristian podcast, yes, the
institution we're gonna focus onmost here is the church.
So, what are some reasons peopledon't trust the church?
(22:44):
Well, let's start with the mostobvious and plain one embezzling
money.
SPEAKER_01 (22:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
I mean, look how many times it's come out.
I mean, the Vatican City.
Okay, and we're not Catholic,but Vatican City is actually the
richest city in the world.
Why?
Because the church went, this isall ours.
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
Right.
Give us more money.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
You know, then you have, you know, people like um
Jim and Tammy Baker, is thattheir names?
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
You know, with their amusement park that they were
gonna do, and people weresending all this money, and oh
it wasn't an amusement park.
You know, you have pastors allday on TV that are like, hey,
send us a check for this andwe'll send you a blessing.
Send us a check for this andwe'll send you this.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (23:31):
And then you come to find out that they're flying
around in private jets, spendingfifteen thousand dollars a night
going to Greek countries.
Yeah, they're wearing shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:40):
I mean, Costi Hinn had an amazing uh an amazing
article uh maybe a a year or twoago that that he wrote about his
own experience in growing up.
Um, you know, you see uh HarvestFest uh was it Harvest Fest
Festival?
No, uh, I think that's parts andcorrect Harvest International,
(24:03):
maybe anyway.
Again, another big blow-up overmoney.
Right.
You know, sex scandals.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
Oh, that's all over the place.
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
Like we're most people are familiar with
Catholic priest and and theirsex scandals.
I just found out a couple ofmonths ago, you know, the
Southern Baptist Con uhConvention is doing an
investigation with from the DOJbecause of the same thing.
Right.
Because all of these things havebeen happening in churches and
(24:32):
it's being covered up.
Right.
Um abusive practices.
unknown (24:37):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
You know, we we we looked at it with law
enforcement, you know, butseriously, the church has been
doing this too.
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
You know, um the guy you met at um at the Ladybird uh
ladybug festival.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
That you were there for for oils.
I was there doing an oildisplay, and but but you wound
up talking to this guy and andwhat happened?
SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
So um we were talking and he was he told me
how cool he thought I was, andwe were I mean he was he did.
He told me I was really cool andwe had a great conversation.
Um he's gay, and he I we weretalking, and it came up that you
were a pastor, and he said, Oh,I never would have imagined that
you were a Christian.
(25:17):
I said, Well, why?
Or he said, a Christian, or thatyou would be a Christian and
talk to me.
And I said, Why?
And he said, You're just so niceand welcoming, and you've made
me feel so comfortable.
And I said, Well, why wouldn'tI?
I mean, Jesus loves people, whywould I not love people?
And he told me when he wasgrowing up, he went to a church
and he came out and told one ofthe elders that he was
(25:39):
struggling with same-sexattraction and he didn't know
what to do, so they sent him tosome like camp to like camp it
out of him, straight camp orsomething, and then he came back
and scared straight somethinglike that, and then they like
held him down and did like somelike I don't it sounded like
like some type of exorcism onhim where all the men like held
(25:59):
him down to pray for where we'regonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
They were gonna pray it out of him, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:03):
And um, and then eventually they shunned him and
then kicked him out of thechurch, and he said he's never
stepped back into a churchagain.
And I I mean I had tears justfalling down my face, and I
hugged him and I said, I'm sosorry that people who claimed to
love Jesus treated you likethat.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
Because that's not what God calls us to do.
And he cried and he gave me ahug, and I've seen him around
town here and there, and healways waves to me, but it was
just like this interaction withpeople who are called to love
Christ and love people left himwounded for forever.
SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
And again, don't get me wrong, just like with law
enforcement, where I think thevast majority of law enforcement
want to do good are are tryingto do the right thing.
Or church planters, yes, and Ithink the vast majority of
people that go into ministry aretrying to do the right thing.
They mean well, right.
But again, what we have tounderstand is, you know, if you
(26:58):
look at this recently, okay, andand I'm not getting into it
because I am not like behindclosed doors with any of these
people, but you know, we haveyou know the rise and fall of
Mars Hill.
There's a whole podcast aboutthat, about you know, the rise
of Mart Driscoll, the fall ofMart Driscoll.
You you have um whatever Iforget the Hillsong thing that
we watched on TV, thedocumentary or whatever that
(27:20):
that I don't even remember whatit was called.
It was all about Carl Lentz andum you know the the the rise and
fall of uh Brian Houston.
Brian Houston, the Houstonfamily, right?
Rise and fall of of HillsongChurch, you know.
Then we have money, sex, drugs,and seriously, and one of the
most heartbreaking ones for me,you know, with with Matt
Chandler stepping down.
Again, I'm not talking into anyof these things because I don't
(27:41):
know you weren't even there.
I don't know the any of thesepeople personally.
What I do know is when otherpeople see that they go, aha,
that's why.
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
That's why I don't go to church, that's why I don't
trust Christians.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
Even though I don't know them, they don't know me,
all of that.
We have to understand that justlike with the small amount of
police that spurned this wholedefund police movement, it's the
same thing.
It's a small I I think the vastmajority of Christ followers
genuinely love Jesus and aregenuinely trying to do the right
(28:16):
thing.
Right.
But that small number that itruins it for everybody.
Everything we just talked about,that creates a lot of distrust
in people.
Right.
And and so if we're looking atthis, and and really when we get
into this conspiracy theoriesand and you know the flat earth
and and all of that stuff, isn'tthis really what we're talking
(28:37):
about?
Is distrust.
SPEAKER_02 (28:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (28:38):
Is sitting here going like your information may
be correct, it may be right, butI don't trust you.
I'm gonna listen to you becauseI don't trust you.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
Right.
And I don't trust you because ofall these other things that
happened.
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
I trust you, Phyllis.
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Trust you, Phyllis.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Like, but isn't that really what it is?
So so I think the topic thenturns to, well, then how again,
practically Christian podcasts.
Here's some practical ways foryou to live out your faith.
How do we rebuild thecommunity's trust in the church?
SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Well, Josh has written out a very clear way to
do that.
Number one.
SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Number one is be present.
You know, be present in thecommunity.
SPEAKER_02 (29:18):
We have a propensity to hide in little bubbles.
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
And and just we're just gonna eat at Chick-fil-A.
We're just gonna shop at HobbyLobby.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Barbecue at Four Rivers only.
SPEAKER_00 (29:30):
First of all, although we would do that even
if we were yes, if you work atFour Rivers, I love you, and
thank you so much for yourdelicious food.
It is blessed.
It really is.
Yeah.
Um, the Lord's barbecue.
It is the Lord's barbecue.
I do think that's what we will Ithink it's gonna be a
combination Chick-fil-AChick-fil-A and Four Rivers at
(29:51):
the the wedding feast of thelamb.
Don't get me wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
There might be lamb there too, but anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (29:55):
But we have this tendency to to just like
Surround ourselves with just us.
Yep.
And and and we're gonna keep allthe bad things out there and and
we're just gonna kind of hunkerdown.
SPEAKER_03 (30:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Understand when when Jesus talks about building the
church in Matthew 16, he says,you know, when you know Peter
declares him as the Christ, andand Jesus goes, you know, upon
this rock, I will build mychurch.
Upon the understanding that I amexactly who I claim to be, I
will build this my church.
Right.
And the gates of hell will notprevail.
SPEAKER_01 (30:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Okay, well, prevail in that sense is a defensive
language.
In other words, the church isgoing to be attacking the gates
of hell.
Not defending themselves.
They're not going to be able tostand up.
Right.
Where I think we take it theother way.
We want to hunker down and letthe gates of hell try to push
into us.
SPEAKER_02 (30:48):
And then we want to spring into action out of.
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
No, we don't.
SPEAKER_02 (30:52):
Sometimes we have to.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Sometimes we're forced to.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
That's what I'm saying.
Like that we have to dosomething now.
SPEAKER_00 (30:57):
But I go, you know, it's reactive not being
proactive.
Yeah, and by then you're you'reso behind, you're never going to
be able to run fast enough tocatch up.
So the first thing we need to doto rebuild the the community
trust in the church is we haveto, as the church, be present in
the community.
Be it games, be it footballgames.
(31:18):
Like, you know, volunteer.
Volunteer, you know, go to thefarmer's market, you know,
engage with the community.
SPEAKER_02 (31:26):
And don't engage with people speaking
Christianese.
Engage with them as a person.
As a human being, as a person.
Not not with your I mean, I'mnot saying tracks are bad, but
not, you know, you don't have tohave your Bible in one hand and
then, you know, your tract inthe other.
Just be there, haveconversations.
Yeah.
Buy somebody coffee.
Go to lunch with somebody thatyou don't know that well, or
(31:49):
that you just met at thefarmer's market.
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
So we're gonna be present.
The next one is we need to beopen.
Okay.
We we need to get out of thisidea that that the pastor and
church leaders are areunapproachable.
SPEAKER_02 (32:04):
They're not accessible.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
There is nothing special about me except for
except your um student loan loanbill that said they taught me
how to study the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Right.
And I mean, and there's there'sworth in that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
Um Right, but what I'm saying is that whole idea
about I'm the anointed one ofGod.
Right.
If we're looking at it in thesense that anointed just means
set apart for a specificpurpose.
SPEAKER_02 (32:28):
We all are.
Thank you.
Anyone that God has calledHimself, a royal priesthood of
Yep.
You know We are all set apart,ears and co-ears.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (32:36):
There's nothing intrinsically special about
that.
We need to be open.
We need to open up our houses.
We need to have our neighborsinside our houses.
We need to, you know, be able tohave our friends and our
coworkers and and you know, upin our house, eating dinner,
right, barbecuing, joking,swimming, doing all of those
(32:57):
things.
SPEAKER_02 (32:57):
Watching you discipline your kids, all of the
things.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
That sounds like being present.
Being present means being out inthe community, being open means
bringing the community to bepart of your life.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Right.
Doing the things that you do.
Or doing what they do.
Be transparent is your numberthree.
SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
Be transparent.
People learn, we have tounderstand, people learn from
watching our struggles just asmuch as they learn from watching
our triumphs.
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
So there's that shirt, it's fine, I'm fine,
everything's fine.
Um, it's not.
And it's okay that it's not.
You can go, yes, I'm hot messexpress today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:33):
Well, and understand, people, you know,
people may be looking at yougoing, how do they keep it
together?
You know, be transparent though.
Like the there's nothing more Ihate.
In fact, you can be prtransparent when you go to
service this week.
Stop walking into the buildinggoing, Oh, but such a great
week.
(33:53):
Some of y'all didn't have a goodweek.
And it's okay.
SPEAKER_02 (33:57):
And somebody else might need to hear that you
didn't have a bad week so theycan go, oh my gosh, me either.
It was awful.
And then you may not want toshare, but that might be the
open opportunity for them toshare and get off of their chest
and be able to have that supportthat we own, like we all need to
have that support.
SPEAKER_00 (34:14):
And that's what I mean.
The more transparent we are.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
My spouse was driving me crazy, my kids were
driving me up the wall, the dogwouldn't stop barking at night,
I can't pay my bill.
This whatever, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
Can you overshare?
Yes.
Absolutely.
There is definitely a line.
SPEAKER_02 (34:27):
Use wisdom and discernment.
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
But like when it comes to money, we are a
nonprofit organization.
SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
Yeah, way on the money.
SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
Okay.
We have money coming in, but Ihave no problem.
Like, we are open with hey, thisis where our money is going too.
SPEAKER_02 (34:41):
Yep, anyone's welcome to look at it.
This is what comes in, this iswhat goes out.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
You know?
Number four, be honest.
This one should go withoutsaying.
But if you want people to trustyou, you gotta be honest.
Even when it's gonna cost yousome popularity points.
Yeah.
Like, can you define a woman?
(35:06):
Yes, I can.
SPEAKER_02 (35:08):
Moving on.
SPEAKER_00 (35:09):
But I'm just saying, like, be honest.
Be genuine, be real.
Like, you know, as far as honestgoes.
Like, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Be genuine, be real.
You know, don't put on thisfacade.
Don't play the part.
Like, understand the wordhypocrite literally translates
(35:30):
as an actor playing the part.
Like, the reason why people willstand here and go, You're a
hypocrite, is because you are.
So am I.
Like, we all go, okay, we havethese parts to play because
we're afraid that if we'rereally.
SPEAKER_02 (35:48):
I don't want people to see me and I don't want to be
vulnerable in front of people.
SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
Right, and then they're not gonna like me.
SPEAKER_02 (35:53):
Or they might have something to hold over my head.
SPEAKER_00 (35:57):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (35:57):
Or I go, well, I mean, you've said it over.
What are you gonna hold over myhead?
I'm honest, I'm open.
SPEAKER_00 (36:02):
Right.
Build your own narrative.
Right.
You know?
And lastly, what we want to lookat is be a community.
We gotta get past the one-manshow.
Right.
Mission sent is not Josh Lively.
I am part of it.
I serve a role and a function ofit.
But every single person whogoes, This is my home, is just
(36:26):
as much a part of it.
Right.
And and like, you know, and Isay it at the end of every
service, we say it at the end ofevery podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
We love you, we need you.
You cannot do this without you.
SPEAKER_00 (36:36):
We love you, we thank you, and we can't do it
without you because we can't.
We're not called to do this byourselves.
SPEAKER_02 (36:44):
I was thinking the Golden Corral commercial, it
threw me off.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
We love you and we need you at the Golden
Commander.
But I go, we're not called to dothis alone.
SPEAKER_01 (36:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (36:54):
Like, and and some of the problem with what we see
in falls, like of big churchesand things like that, is because
when we get all secretive witheverything, if it's just me and
my ability to to determinewhat's right and wrong.
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
You're gonna get it wrong every time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Well, maybe not every time, but I'm definitely
gonna get shady at times too.
Like, I mean, we I I'll behonest, I cheat at board games
sometimes now.
No, like if like if JT's winningor something, like I might sneak
a card or two.
You know?
So I go sorry, son.
But I go, we have to be acommunity, we have to be, you
(37:37):
know, vulnerable with eachother, we have to be there for
each other, we have tounderstand that there is no one,
like the only amazing personthat is part of any church is
Jesus.
Other than that, everybody isreplaceable, right?
So I go, so that's why we we areconstantly going, let's look to
Jesus.
(37:57):
So why should we care?
Why should we, as asinstitutions go, we want to
build trust in our communitybecause Jesus cared.
Because our mission is to seekand save what is lost.
Right.
And we can't do that effectivelyif they don't trust us or our
(38:19):
message.
Like, understand that.
Like, how effective are you iflike the whole time you're
talking, the person in the backof their mind that you're
talking to is sitting heregoing, I don't trust you.
Like right out the gate.
And everybody you roan into,especially here in America, you
would be hard pressed to findsomeone who's never heard of
Jesus in America.
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
It seems like everybody has that story.
So they they're already on edge.
They already are sitting heregoing, you know, because of the
reasons we talked about earlier,we don't trust you.
So why would they listen to whatI have to say when it comes to,
I don't know, their view ofgender identity or their view of
(39:04):
abortion, or their view, likehow am I gonna enter into all of
these tough conversations?
Right.
These uncomfortable, murky,nasty conversations.
If they don't trust you.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (39:16):
Just I mean, off the bat.
SPEAKER_00 (39:18):
So it it's really hard to be able to seek and save
what is lost if they don't trustyou.
SPEAKER_03 (39:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
And so this week, that's what it is.
And that is really when we lookat conspiracy theories, what we
have to say, because this weekwe challenge you to have a
one-on-one conversation withsomeone outside of your comfort
zone.
Have the grace to understandthat they may not trust you or
your motives behind it, but atleast talk to them about it.
(39:50):
Be present, open, transparent,honest, and start building
community.
We love you.
We thank you, and we can't dothis without the first time.
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