April 11, 2025 • 47 mins
Golf pro. Road warrior. Culture shifter. GM.
Rick Schultz has worn a lot of hats—and in this episode, he brings them all to the table.
We explore Rick’s evolution from a 22-year-old tour hopeful to a private club GM overseeing a sprawling Oregon property with 27 holes, indoor tennis, pickleball, mini golf, and more. But his real focus? People and purpose.
In this episode, we cover:
– What makes the leap from pro shop to GM actually work
– How a club re-centered its strategy around members—not luxury
– Spotting toxic board culture before it wrecks your team
– Why member guests raving about your club is the highest form of success
– And how Rick pulled off a 250-person candlelit dinner during a blackout
Rick’s down-to-earth leadership style is a masterclass in knowing your market, honoring your mission, and building a team that makes the whole thing run better.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, Frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, Denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am chattingwith Rick Schultz, who is the
general manager, COO of RogueValley Country Club and all the
way from the PGA Tour to theGM's office.
You know, some people plantheir careers, others take
opportunities as they come, andRick has done a little bit of
(00:40):
both.
He started off playing on theCanadian PGA Tour, working his
way through some of the bestclubs in the country before
making the leap to head pro tonow general manager, and he is
running Rogue Valley CountryClub.
And what a story, what ajourney.
And I'm excited to dive intothis episode because we talk
(01:01):
about the biggest lessons helearned from life on tour, what
made him realize he wanted torun clubs instead of just
working in them, and how henavigated from the jump to go
from golf operations to full-onclub management, and why
managing a team is the hardestand most important part of the
(01:22):
job.
It is a fantastic episode and Ireally enjoy these
conversations, hearing howpeople get to club leadership,
club management and, as you know, there's not always just
managers and leaders on here.
There's the whole gambit.
We have the whole wide spectrum.
But I love just the uniquepaths that people take to get to
where they're at, and I loveseeing how there's a lot of PGA
(01:45):
pros who are now making theirway to GMs or have been GMs, and
I just love that journey.
I love that story, so I'm superstoked to dive in and for you
to hear all about it Before wedo.
Big thanks to some of our showpartners Kenneth's member
vetting members first, andconcert golf partners, as well
(02:08):
as myself.
The Denny Corby experience.
If you are looking for one ofthe most fun member memorable
event nights your club can have,make sure you check out Denny
Corbycom.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading and comedy.
It is so much fun, but I am alittle bit biased.
If you want to learn more, headon over to DannyCorbycom.
(02:31):
Enough about that, though.
Let's get to this episode.
Private Club Radio listeners.
A welcome to the show.
Rick Schultz, you were on thePGA Tour.
You were touring.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You were from PGA.
Canadian PGA Never made it allthe way.
All the mini tours and all that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Really, back then they had just started, sort of
the Corn Fairy that secondary,so I forget what it was called.
Hogan Tour.
I think at first that had to becool to be on tour.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, it was good.
It's rough, you know, when youdon't play well.
And yeah, it was good.
It's rough when you don't playwell and you don't make money.
It's a struggle.
Living out at Motel 6s anddriving from place to place is a
lot different than staying atthe Ritz.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's very true, very true.
How old were you?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I was what 22?
Oh, that's a fun age to bedoing it then yeah, yeah, it was
fun.
I mean I met a lot of goodpeople, had a lot of great
stories and, and you know I'llnever take it back.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
But yeah, Any looking back, any like lessons like you
learned from it?
Was there anything like likelooking back now?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
were you like, oh, like you know, this helped me or
like that helped me, I don'tknow just any like lessons from
doing that whole thing I thinkjust the whole growing up and
living on your own, living inhotel room, I mean, you know, I
can't imagine my son's 27 nowand I'm thinking gosh, gosh, man
, if I told them hey, see youlater.
You're going to go travelacross the United States and in
(04:08):
Canada and be gone for 14 weeks.
You know that's kind of crazy.
So, but again, just you know,I've been in every state in the
union, so it's great.
Been all the way through Canada, spent some time in Mexico.
So North America, I've got totravel quite a bit through golf,
which is kind of cool andexciting.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, and you are one of few who have PGA to general
manager, especially with yourCCM.
How did you go from PGAprofessional to GM?
What was that shift?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, I think it was just a matter of responsibility.
Once I became a head pro andthen I was given an opportunity
to be sort of the GM when my GMleft and took on that
responsibility.
I've always been one who wantsto control things and take over,
right, yeah, total type a guy,so it's just a matter of uh, I
(05:10):
enjoy making the decisions, Ilike running the show and and uh
, so just casually, just kind ofmove forward.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know I was taking on more responsibility and then
once I got a gm position at thedeer creek golf club in
littleton, colorado, um, youknow, just that's where I wanted
to stay did you jump in likeright from golf pro to gm, like
with, oh, that that had to be a,uh, a pretty big leap, like
(05:39):
that was like, were you getting,were you learning and being
like groomed for it?
Did you kind of jump right in?
Were you starting to learnabout the management stuff
already?
Because I think there's not, orat least there wasn't, a lot of
educational resources availablefor PGAs to go into that
general manager position, if I'mnot mistaken.
(06:00):
Now, obviously there's a lotmore big focus on education.
So were you already gettinginto it or were you just kind of
like thrown in and then youstarted like learning more?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
No, it's definitely a sort of both.
I mean, I was a head pro for awhile and then you know at that
time there's sort of two tracks.
You sort of could go to acountry club and you know a
high-end club and you're anassistant and you know you
gradually wait for the guy aboveyou to retire to where you can
get more.
Or in this situation it wasAmerican Golf who they had over,
(06:36):
I think 200 courses at thattime and were really controlling
most of the management.
And we're really controllingmost of the management and so
with them you could go work forthem and you'd come in as a head
pro, assistant, general manager, and then how fast they were
(06:57):
growing and how they're goingthrough people.
You probably have a generalmanager job in six months.
So we sort of learn on the flythrough American golf.
And that's where I sort ofstarted.
It was more of a public golf,semi-private atmosphere and so
you just learn by fire gettingin it.
And the GM that I worked for,he ran a restaurant.
He wasn't a golfer at all, sohe taught me a lot of the food
(07:21):
and beverage side of things andI taught him more about the golf
side of things when it camethrough.
But then at that time my lovewas really golf and sort of.
I had another opportunity to goto Colorado and be a head pro
at a club that was just startingup and turning private, and it
was with my buddy, jason, who Ikind of mentioned before.
(07:43):
He runs Columbine Country Clubnow.
He was a GM and he said, hey,I've taken over this club, come
out to Colorado.
And I had family ties inEvergreen right above Denver, so
my wife and I said, heck, yeah,we'll take the leap and run out
there.
And then I became the head prothere and then over time he sort
of another job at at anothercountry club that the owner had
(08:07):
and I sort of took over gm andthat's where it all sort of
started.
Back in gosh.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
he was probably uh, 13, 2013 yeah, now that's a cool
, cool spot to be in and a coolfriend to pull you in like that
and give you that chance andopportunity.
That's a really coolprogression.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
River City Country Club in San Dimas, right out of
college.
And you know, when I took offto go play professionally, you
know he stayed back and starteda business.
So he got in earlier than I didand he went to go work for
American Golf and sort of.
(08:55):
You know he was their fixer.
So he kept moving from courseto course as they needed
somebody else to come in andclean up.
So he kept calling.
He said, hey, I'm in Tallest inMexico, you want to go there?
I'm like no, I'm going to passon that one.
Then it was San Bernardino andI was like no, I'm going to pass
.
And then when he got to ColoradoI said oh, that sounds like a
(09:16):
much better deal.
So that's how it sort ofhappened.
And then, you know, we kind ofnow even still talk weekly about
you know this situation or thatsituation, or what are you
doing.
That's a great thing about theclub managers and even the PGA
of America too, is, you knowwe're so open with each other
and we throw out ideas and whatare you doing about that, or
(09:39):
what event happened, or you knowwhat situation is going on with
you, human resources or othersituations.
So that's been great.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
What sort of like mental shifts did you have to
make, going from, you know, headgolf pro to now GM Cause that
that had to be like stressfulalso to now, you know, being
responsible for a lot morepeople, a lot more jobs, a lot
more responsibilitiesresponsible for a lot more
people, a lot more jobs, a lotmore responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, I mean, I tell all my managers you know, doing
the job is the easy part.
It's managing the people isalways the hardest part.
And even in the same way, Ithink they focus a lot more on
how to lead teams and how to beable to communicate with each.
You know your employees becauseeverybody sort of learns
different listens different.
Some need a kick in the butt,some need a pat on the back, and
(10:30):
it's learning how to, you know,achieve the goals by how it
works best for them.
So really I think being a GMyou went from just being the
head pro, where you're trying tomake everything the center of
happiness down in your pro shopand all the members you know
happy and you're teaching golfand running tournaments, to now
(10:51):
when general manager is moreabout leading each of the
department heads and then thecommunications with the members
and the board of directors andsometimes, you know, I just wish
, man, it would be kind of nicejust to go back to being a head
pro and think about playing golfand giving lessons and how many
less headaches I'd have andprobably how much better I'd
(11:13):
sleep at night, not worryingabout what happens the next day.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, what are some of the things that keep your
head scratching and keeping youup at night as a general manager
?
Keep your head scratching andkeeping you up at night as a
general manager.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, I mean you're always kind of looking ahead
what's happening, what's goingon at the club, what situations,
you know what member was upsetabout something, or you know how
do we keep the shit going inthe right direction.
And you know you're alwaysworried.
I mean gosh the economy.
The private country clubrevolves around the worried.
I mean gosh the economy.
The private country clubrevolves around the economy.
(11:46):
And I mean it goes down andthere's not much you can do
except sort of hold on andadjust and change.
I think COVID flipped the wholeworld on its end and then
trying to manage day by day bydifferent regulations and
different things that come downthe pipeline.
That's just so quick thatyou've got to be quick to change
(12:08):
and sort of ahead of the curveif you're going to be successful
in this business.
And really it's just where dowe go from here every day?
How do we get forward?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, do you guys have a good strategic plan in
place?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, do you guys have a good strategic plan in
place?
Yeah, we've definitely sort ofchanged our model from I think
we were headed in the directionof being trying to be too high
end of a club in a way.
You know you have to know yourmarket and the prettiest you
(12:45):
know clubhouse, nicest, great,unbelievable service and valet,
but yet not many members want topay for it and that's the fine
line that you run of what canthey afford and what will they
accept with that?
Yeah, with that, with the labormarket being so tough and then
minimum wages increasing so much, it's a tough deal for private
(13:14):
clubs because 70% of yourexpenses are really all labor
related and so when that minimumwage goes up a dollar, it truly
affects the bottom line for aprivate country club.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, was the club starting?
So was it trying just to do so?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
it was trying to be that really high Trying to be a
little higher right, a littlehigher end.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
So was it like just raising the initiation, raising
the dues like big capital, likeprojects?
Was it trying to do?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, a little bit of that.
Yeah, taking a step back.
It's more of trying to uh,increase the service levels to
the point where the dues linewouldn't really justify it.
Yeah, that's, that's.
The fine line with any club isthat you want to be able to
exceed their expectations but beable to live within their
budget.
And that was the sort ofsituation.
(14:05):
So I think with us.
You know, my goal and thoughtsare that you want to be the
friendliest club, the mostenjoyable, that you want to be
acceptable, that you know wedon't want to be the stuffiest
or most pretentious.
And you know our club wasfounded by two gentlemen,
(14:26):
basically, who wanted everydayMedford residents to be able to
join a private country club andsort of.
We were getting a little toofar away from that being trying
to be somebody much higher thanwe were, and I think it kind of
turned off the community andturned off the members a little
bit, because, mr Jackson, hewanted everybody to be able to
(14:49):
afford a membership.
It shouldn't be so I mean ourdues are full in our 778.
And with the amenities that wehave 27 holes, two practice
holes, double-ended range, wehave a fitness center pool,
indoor tennis facility,pickleball facility a miniature
(15:10):
golf course, batting cages,bocce courts yeah, we've got a
huge facility and anywhere elseyou'd be paying $1,000, $1,500
for, and paying $30,000 to$150,000 to get in, and we're
$3,000.
And the board's kept it.
(15:31):
Yeah, the board's kept us thatlow.
So, like anybody who's inPacific Palisades, this is rough
.
Maybe a little too early to sayand I hate that, but you know
it's really.
I think, uh, we were marketingtowards the bay area in
california because, I mean, theweather here is similar to
central california and, uh, forthree thousand dollars and 778 a
(15:55):
month and you get all theseamenities, it's, it's a
unbelievable value bargain inthe private club industry yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
No, that's really neat that the club looked at it,
took a step back.
You know I love that.
That's so cool.
I think a lot of I shouldn'tsay a lot of clubs, but there
are ones that you know clubs,organizations, whatever you want
who lose that mission, thatvalue, that like initial, what
Compass of where you're headedso it's so cool that?
(16:25):
so how?
How did that?
When did that start happening?
Was it the boards?
Was it some members like whatwas, what was that?
Because and and you can answeras best as you can because I
know you're new, ish, new, newer, uh and is is that part of the
reason why you were brought inis to help help you with this a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I think it's a general manager, you know, with
any club this is, I think, myseventh club that I've run and
sort of you come in and the GMsort of sets the tone and kind
of directs.
You know the way that he'strying to push the board and
club members in, and the last GMsort of was pushing a little
(17:04):
higher end, more than what Ithink the board and members
wanted.
So, uh, the change reallyhappened by the change in gms.
Uh, he took, he took a newposition at a super high-end
club in the desert and so hekind of fits that's what he
wanted and, yeah, you know.
So after that change, um, itcame in and brought, brought in
(17:28):
a golf guy.
He was not a golf guy, he was afood and beverage guy.
So their focus was really backon trying to get the golf course
.
Uh, the main focus and that'swhat we've done and just focus
on the fun and enjoyment of theclub and not necessarily that we
have to be the the premier clubin all of oregon.
Yeah, I don't think thatnecessarily means success.
(17:50):
Um, you know, in the privateclub industry I think happy
members who are inviting theirfriends to join is the true, you
know denominator of whetheryou're successful or not, and
that's what we're getting backto yeah, no, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I was, um, uh, it was uh, chatting with jim jim
miller.
He used to run the sona nelpclub in uh, california, colorado
, and he and he's, and when, uh,when we were chatting he was,
he was like it's it's one thingwhen, when the members will say,
oh, this was great, but he'slike it's another thing when the
(18:27):
members' guests go yo thisplace or when they start saying
stuff.
That's always when you're like,all right, it's a good little
pat on the back when you can getthe guests saying really good
things about it.
The members are your bestsalespeople.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean happy members inviting others, and that's the
key.
So getting that done is, youknow, the goal of every GM.
You shouldn't have to spendthousands of dollars on
marketing strategies andpublications and radio and TV.
I mean just happy membersinviting others is the core way
(19:08):
to increase your membership.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I think you know, going back to the reason, what
you guys are trying toaccomplish, to get back to your
roots, is when they can actuallyarticulate why they're a member
of their club too.
It's not just like oh, we're amember, how come you should join
, why?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Ah, it's a good club.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
But it's like when you know where the club's going,
why your member's there, andyeah, no, that's really really
cool.
What's been some of the hardeststuff about trying to maybe not
the hardest stuff, but what'sthat journey been like?
Now, going back to your roots,what's that been like?
How do you start that process?
(19:48):
Like so, now you, you know newgm, new, new kind of vision, or
getting the vision back on track.
What's your first order ofbusiness?
Now you know what I mean.
Like so, from your, yourperspective, how do you start
that?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
well, it's kind of the culture that you, you bring
into your team.
I mean, the most important jobof a GM, too, is to build a team
that supports you, that isthinking the same way, going in
the right direction, and it'ssort of having to, you know,
(20:22):
create that culture and thatfeelings.
Those feelings from thefrontline staff, you know, come
from the department heads, whichgoes from GM to department
heads to the frontline staff.
When the frontline staff arehappy and energetic and feel
great about what's going aroundat the club, well then that
emanates into the membership andthen from there the membership
(20:44):
emanates into their friends andfamily that want to be part of
the club.
You know that fear of missingout, FOMO yeah, that we all talk
about, but it is.
It's creating events andmemories that will last a
lifetime, that you want otherpeople to enjoy with you.
(21:07):
That's a great thing aboutprivate club industry able to
create those lifelong memoriesand generational memories.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, how will you know?
And when you know when you'vegot the ship back on track?
How will you know when it'sback on course and heading in
the right direction?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Oh, I think you just feel it within the membership.
You know they're happy, they'reenergetic, they're coming back,
they're visiting the club.
You know, my thought is themore times that person drives
down the driveway or drivestheir car to the club property,
(21:52):
I mean that brings value,whether it's eating and drinking
, it's working out, it's playinggolf, it's playing bocce,
bringing their kids, grandkids,to the pool.
I mean that's the goal Ifthey're starting to use the club
again.
I think that's the, you know,the telltale sign of success or
not, and then your membershipnumbers will increase because of
that.
I mean, some clubs are full andthat's great, um, but most
(22:14):
clubs, most average clubs, um,you know there's they're always
looking for the next set ofmembers.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
so how many?
How many memberships do youhave?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
about 935 right now, with about 510 or so golfing and
400 social that is solid yeahyeah, it's real solid at the
height of uh coven.
They were up over a thousand,about 1100 um, but I, just as
other clubs, sort of that socialmembership and uh people who
(22:47):
joined do you have a capacity?
You have a limit, a cap uh,yeah, we have, about 1100 is our
is our limit.
Yeah, we have a cap on ourgolfing, but again, with 27
holes um, you know, we aredefinitely far from fully
utilized on our golf course.
It's the social membership thatwas kind of, I think, twofold.
(23:10):
At that 1,100 number youcouldn't get courts, it was hard
to get a sit at the pool.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So now we're sort of stabilized at that number and
that I think is where themembership really wants to be is
sort of at this number.
Yeah, is there or has therebeen thought of like lowering
the cap, like just going like,hey, if we keep it at this, and
then starting to maybe build amember like a list off that?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
yeah, I don't think we're sort of at that area right
now.
I think that's one of the toughdecisions uh the board's gonna
have to make.
Uh kind of now is, where do wesit?
Are we happy with our numbers?
If we are, you know, we mighthave to ask everybody to pay a
bit more.
And I think once you get tothat level of you know that
(24:01):
tipping point, you don't want tocharge too much and you want to
make sure the members feel likeYou're doing your part on the
backside as a GM, controllingexpenses, and not a bunch of
waste.
Once they feel that, then Ithink they're more willing to
pay, as long as they know it'sgoing to the right place.
Yeah, again, a lot of it is thetransparency that every GM and
(24:24):
every board Strives to have andevery member says they're never
transparent enough.
You know, and again it,transparency's there, but most
members, you know they just wantto enjoy their membership.
They don't want to be involvedwith the committee or on a board
.
You know they're great to aMonday morning quarterback, but
(24:45):
to step up and and lead isanother thing.
Actually, here I've seen a lotmore enthusiasm for
committee-level people and forthe board.
I think that kind of shows too,about the happiness of the club
members as a whole, thehappiness of of the club members
(25:06):
as a whole.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Um, they're excited and they're they're eager to to
help out.
Yeah, what, uh, do you haveadvice words to?
For?
What about, like, youngerpeople who are coming up through
PGA and all of that?
What, uh, you know?
A word to the wise a word tothe wise.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I think it kind of sits down where.
Well, you know, what do youwant her to do?
I mean, there's a lot of PGAguys coming up through the ranks
and they love golf and theywant to teach and and be head
pros.
You know, they don't want tohave quite of the responsibility
and, uh, all the extraheadaches, you know it's a, it's
a lot of of a lot of headaches.
(25:44):
And I had a lot of worriesabout, you know, each department
making sure things are runningright.
Um, so I think it depends onhow how far they want to go.
Um, you know, in this businessyou got to be a caregiver all
the way around and it's just amatter of what level do you want
?
And again, for me, I justwanted more responsibility, I
(26:05):
wanted to run the show, I wantedto be the boss.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
You know, that's sort of my mentality yeah so well, I
think it's it's probably neattoo that it at least there's.
There's that option likethere's that trajectory, it's
hey, there's this, and let'sjust say this doesn't work out.
I can start learning andeducating and starting to
maneuver lateral moves, diagonalmoves, but you could figure it
(26:31):
out.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The PGA of America and CMIA through CMA and hotel
restaurant other things you know.
both have a good ancillary setof classes that you can learn
which you're not as good at andthere's also great mentoring now
going on in both organizationsthat you know you can really
(27:02):
reach out to people and you knowlearn and again sort of goes to
that career path, whether youwant to be at that high end club
or you want to be at thatregular Joe club or do you want
to be the resort public, privateyou know whole thing.
What do you really want to beand then from there you sort of
have to pick your course whereyou want to be.
(27:25):
And you know some people justwant to run those daily fees and
you know, go that way.
And then others want to be moreof that relationship manager,
which comes with a lot moreheadaches, I think, but a lot
more rewards.
And you get to see, you knowyoung kids grow up from, you
(27:46):
know teenagers to going away tocollege, to come back and be
successful.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And they're still better than you.
No, it's like how in the world?
No.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah.
But, that's great.
I think with that it's just amatter of picking your poison,
really.
Yeah, At a point.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, it's just a matter of picking your, picking
your poison, really, yeah, at apoint, yeah, it's.
It's just neat that likethere's like what many, many,
many rooms in the house, ofclubs or whatever I forget that
saying many rooms in the houseor wherever, but like there's so
many cool, it's like that'sjust the path, like people have
so many different options andthey can just open up the doors
to so many different things.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think one great thing about private club
industry is that I've had a lotof people start as a bartender
or a barback or a cart guy andnow you see them running country
clubs or you see them beinghead pros at country clubs or
you see them running huge foodand beverage operations.
So I mean it's kind of neat inthat situation where we get to
touch a lot of young kids, youknow as they grow up and trying
(28:57):
to decide what they want to do.
You know what are you reallyexcited about?
What side?
I mean, if you like sales, youbecome a membership director.
If you really like the food andbeverage operations, you become
a food and beverage manager.
If you love the golf side of it,you become a golf.
Hey, if you like the fitnessand the tennis and the kids
activities and the other things,you could be a sports director.
(29:19):
So you got a million differentways to go and it's a great like
.
A club is just a great trainingprogram for young kids as they
start high school and go throughcollege.
You know you have a lot of kidsthat their first job is this,
because mom and dad said, hey,you've got to go get a job, go
ask if they need a car guy or abartender or a lifeguard or that
(29:43):
.
So we get to mold a lot ofyoung kids and that's again one
of the great parts of my job isgetting to see these kids grow
up into productive andsuccessful you know, young men
and women, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
It's.
It's clubs are almost the rightclub, the right GM, who like,
who thinks like this and seesthe vision and gives that vision
.
When you work at a club likethat, it's like you're having a
professional development planwith a pay plan attached to it.
There's more to it, but if youjust sift through a little bit
(30:23):
you can see the bigger pictureof it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
But like if you you know, just sift through a little
bit, you can see the biggerpicture of it Right.
A lot of times, I mean, we'reyou go to school to learn
education, but you come to aclub to learn life and how to
interact.
Again, I think so much of oursuccess comes from interaction,
of how we are able to interactwith others.
And again, having so manymembers and touch points with
(30:48):
members, you learn to yourcommunication skills, your
interpersonal skills, you knowhow to, how to talk, how to act,
how to stand and be confident.
And again, you see a lot ofkids who are sort of timid their
first job and then they sort ofget comfortable and get more
confidence in their, theirabilities and out front with
(31:11):
people.
And it's great, I mean I canthink of a couple of kids here
where last year when I saw them,you know kind of shy and timid
and now they're, you know, ayear in, or coming back from
college after, after going awayfor a year, and you see them
come back and they're standingup straighter and more confident
and reach across the table atyou to shake your hand, as
(31:34):
opposed to you know coming insort of shoulders down, head
down.
And again, just a great part ofof having so many young people
work under you, that you get toaffect so many lives yeah,
that's awesome.
I don't know Again, being veryfew of the PGA and CMAA, I think
(31:56):
it's likely.
I have both experience.
Not everybody has the wholegolf side of it.
I think that is a bigdifference for most clubs.
I think that, circling back, atfirst it was the CMAA and a lot
of clubs were hiring, you know,food and beverage people
(32:16):
because of almost every club thefood and beverage operations is
not very good.
You know, when you're lookingfor a new GM, it's usually
because people stop coming tothe restaurant and just the
food's not good.
So every time you know you'relooking at a new GM, they were
always constantly trying to workon the food and beverage side
of it and I think now it'scircled back to where now boards
(32:40):
are starting to look moretowards PGA guys, because the
golf course is the mostimportant part on clubs.
With golf, obviously, cityclubs and other things, it's
more about the food and beverage.
But any club with a golf coursenow I think that PGA initials
behind your name are reallygetting more and more powerful
(33:01):
in the industry.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, and it touches on what you said as well, and
it's something I've been, youknow, there's a couple of GMs
and just people I've beenchatting with too.
It's you know, each club is itsown thing.
It has its own culture, itsvalues, its own personality and,
just like you as a GM and as asclub professionals, everyone
has their own style and stufftoo.
(33:24):
And just because you applydoesn't mean you're the best fit
.
So it is also about like Ithink now there's a lot more
people like try going more withtheir guts and saying no to
things because they just knowit's not a good fit.
And on both ends theprofessional and the clubs and
the boards it's really now going.
Hey, this is our issue, let'stry to, not our issue, but
(33:46):
here's where we're going, here'swhere we want to be.
Things could be going great,could be not, but hey, let's
find that right person that is agood fit.
I think that's really importanttoo, because now it's like you
have a special set of skills andfor the right club you're a
really good fit.
So why not try to find that?
I think sometimes they go likethey just apply for a job and
get pissed if they don't get it.
(34:07):
It's like we're really good fit, though, and were you a good
fit for them, like maybe youjust weren't great Like, so it's
cool seeing that and knowingthat you know there's there's
more special fits for peoplelike that out there and just how
like what a what a specificproblem does to solve, and to
know that you can solve thatspecific problem, that is killer
(34:28):
.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, and again, I think, with the interviewing
process, as much as they werealways interviewing me, I was
interviewing them.
I mean I want that culture fromthem, I want that feeling from
them.
You know, I've felt that atdifferent clubs.
Every time you sort of get inand you sort of feel the board
(34:49):
and for GMs it really comes downto the board's really your boss
, not the members.
I mean they give you a lot ofinput but really, you know, your
job depends on whether theboard is behind you and thinking
the same way.
So you know, I took a job at aplace that I thought was going
to be, you know, higher andbetter and had more things, and
(35:12):
it was.
You know, I took it but knowingthat the board was not a good
working board.
It was very, it was very tough.
And again I found thatsituation where, even though the
members were great, it was sucha poor board that it was brutal
, it was horrible and a badsituation.
(35:32):
And a lot of us GMs find usfind in the same situation to
where you know you could have achange in board members and then
all of a sudden you go from aship that's sailing in the right
direction by the nine boardmembers in the GM and all of a
sudden you've got a couple ofpeople jump on there and now
(35:52):
they're turning the ship wayleft or right and you know you
find yourself in a differentsituation.
And again I think the clubs thatare most successful are those
that hire the right people, hirethe right GM and allow them to
do the job.
I was talking to a colleagueyesterday where, you know, in
the past year they've lost theirGM, their superintendent, they
(36:15):
went through two GMs, lost theirGM, their superintendent, they
went through two GMs, lost theirsuperintendent, their food and
beverage manager, theircontroller, their office manager
, and it's all because the boardis sort of taking over running
the club.
And again it goes back to thatwhole culture.
You know it's toxic there andthe board is beta toxic now and
you know nobody wants to workfor him.
(36:36):
Even I had a phone call fromone of my past employees who was
looking for another job becauseit just wasn't fun, it was
brutal, and you know the boardwas trying to run everything and
they just weren't allowingtheir skilled people to run the
club for them and and you seethat situation a lot, I'm afraid
, in the in the club business.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So can you?
Can you spot that though?
Like you as a or do or do someclubs hide that well?
Like do some boards hide itwell that they put on like, just
just like there's people whoput on a good, a great interview
and then they get to the job.
Who did we hire?
I'm sure?
I'm sure it's the same for forboards and clubs too.
I'm like, well, who did we hire?
I'm sure it's the same forboards and clubs too.
I'm sure some hide that verywell and look, oh look, come on
(37:18):
in.
The water is warm.
You get in.
You're like this is freezing.
What did you guys get me into?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well, and the club industry is kind of small too,
right, you know, if you see aclub that burns through three or
four GMs in a matter of years,you to work too hard.
But when it comes down to ityou got to think there's some
dysfunction in the board withinitself that's creating those.
And again I've had it to whereyou sort of the code for us
(37:45):
general managers and pros arelike, hey, would you put that
guy in your foursome?
Would you, you know hire?
Somebody calls hey, do you knowthis guy?
What do you think about him?
I don't think I'd invite him tomy foursome, you know, next
saturday, but uh, he's okay.
(38:05):
Yeah, um, so you, you find itboth ways in that.
But yeah, the board is reallythe determining factor on that,
on that club, whether it'senjoyable and fun or just brutal
yeah, that was good, that wasgood um the hard truth, right,
you know, and it's no, it's,it's, it is, it's um, no it.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
And it's so funny because other people have said
it.
It's like you have theseamazing people sometimes who run
successful.
You know they're successful intheir own right and run
extremely well-run companies,but for some reason you get them
into a board and some of themare on boards of other things
and you're like how in the worlddo you guys all function other
ways?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
but yeah, well, I think the private club is
industry in itself is sospecific.
You know that if you run a youknow manufacturing company or
you run even if you own arestaurant, right, all these
guys own restaurants and barsand they say, oh, my bar makes
money.
(39:04):
Like, well, yeah, your barisn't open from 5 am till 11 pm
every night and you don't havefive people waiting for the next
member to walk in.
I mean you can't set thosehours.
I mean it doesn't make sense,financial sense, to do a lot of
things we do in the food andbeverage industry and, you know,
in private clubs, but we do itbecause it's customer service,
(39:26):
it's not designed to be a profitcenter.
And that's where they lose.
You know their understanding ofwhat they think they know as a
private company owner ratherthan a board member of a private
country club.
So that's where you get.
(39:48):
You're always trying to findthe lawyer, the, you know the,
the insurance guy.
You've got to have thoseparticular professions.
So they, they help you with.
You know the situations at theclub, but yet you know some of
your best people are justregular Joes who aren't trying
to be, you know, the presidentof a club.
(40:10):
They just want to tell you whatthey love about the club and
and want to be supportive of theclub.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
So keep your hands out of the operations and just
make sure the numbers look good,and then we'll call it a day,
guys.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah what makes what makes your group happy?
Where do you want to take theclub?
I mean, if you guys all want tobe just the easiest, funnest
club and enjoyable, whereanimals can come anytime they,
you know, dogs or whatever.
I mean that's, that's thedirection, right?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
yeah, it's like I can't imagine some of them going
on a cruise ship, walking intothe captain's area, going what
does this button do?
Let me see that if I turn this,does it move the wheel like
stop, like, yeah yeah, tell mewhat kind of uh luau party you
want.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Uh, you know that's what we'll focus on.
Is the fun and enjoyment.
But it's, you know, it's great.
You know my wife says, well,what are you doing today at work
?
I'm like I don't know, we'llfind out it.
Just you walk in and you knowjust 100 things come at you
constantly during the day andyou just put out fires and try
(41:19):
to get ahead of things.
So it's kind of fun in the factthat you know it's not just day
to day.
I could never be an accountantor something where you're just
crunching numbers.
You know day after day.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
You know, it's just organized chaos, as I tell our
guys and guys.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You know, you know, on the back side, when you walk
behind in the kitchen, it'sorganized chaos.
But when you walk out into the,into the, room of the members
all's great, so yeah hey, uh, wethe power just went out, uh,
now what?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
out.
Uh, now what?
Guess what we're havingcandlelight tonight.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Uh, crazy, early valentine's day.
We have this big spaghetti feedthat the members throw at one
part at one club and it wascalled the olga spaghetti feed,
the oakdale ladies golfassociation.
So, you know, the ladies putthis all on and the guys, the
senior men, help in the back ofthe kitchen cooking the pasta
and doing all that and it's sortof all hands on to where it's
all members and sort of thisfundraiser that they do.
(42:24):
Well, you know, there's 250people in our building and the
lights go out.
Well, now it's like, oh my gosh, now I've got a bunch of
members you know who aren't mystaff.
I've only got like three staffmembers that night With the
knives in the kitchen, yeah.
And so you know what happens.
It's like, well, okay, let'sfind candles.
So it was great, we found abunch of candles.
(42:46):
Now they said, well, I mean, wehave gas, but we have no, we
have no water, because we're ona well, so we can't get any
water.
I'm like, well, we got ice inthe ice machine, so put a bunch
of ice in the pots and boil itand get it to where the water
and now we can make the pastaand the sauce.
(43:06):
So we ended up throwing a wholeparty, you know, with no
electricity, no running water.
And you know, after the event,the ladies came to me and said
do you think we could do it bycandlelight?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
next year.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I'm like, yes, candlelight, but yes,
electricity.
We could just turn off thelights, but again.
That's where, again, you haveto be quick on your feet.
As a GM, you know just how canyou make that organized chaos
work on the front side.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Limitations force creativity.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're fast thinkers.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
That's funny, that's really good.
Hey, thank you so much forcoming on.
This was such a greatconversation.
I really enjoyed theperspective and keep killing it.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I appreciate the opportunity to come out.
I mean grateful for the CMA,grateful for the PGA.
I just hope more and morepeople decide that they want to
come do this.
It's a great profession, agreat time.
I enjoy what I do and therehaven't been too many days when
I wake up and say, oh my gosh, Ihate, I don't want to go to
(44:12):
work.
You know, every day is just anew opportunity to learn
something new or meet somebodynew.
That's awesome, great industry.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
I hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
If you did enjoy it, guess what?
If you can share it withsomeone who you think might also
enjoy it, that means theabsolute world.
You can also give us a rating,five stars and a comment on any
of the platforms that you areconsuming podcasts on.
It means the absolute world.
It costs nothing.
(44:40):
I'm your host, danny Corby.
That's this episode.
Until next time, catch you allon the Flippity Flip.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, Frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, Denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am chattingwith Rick Schultz, who is the
general manager, COO of RogueValley Country Club and all the
way from the PGA Tour to theGM's office.
You know, some people plantheir careers, others take
opportunities as they come, andRick has done a little bit of
(00:40):
both.
He started off playing on theCanadian PGA Tour, working his
way through some of the bestclubs in the country before
making the leap to head pro tonow general manager, and he is
running Rogue Valley CountryClub.
And what a story, what ajourney.
And I'm excited to dive intothis episode because we talk
(01:01):
about the biggest lessons helearned from life on tour, what
made him realize he wanted torun clubs instead of just
working in them, and how henavigated from the jump to go
from golf operations to full-onclub management, and why
managing a team is the hardestand most important part of the
(01:22):
job.
It is a fantastic episode and Ireally enjoy these
conversations, hearing howpeople get to club leadership,
club management and, as you know, there's not always just
managers and leaders on here.
There's the whole gambit.
We have the whole wide spectrum.
But I love just the uniquepaths that people take to get to
where they're at, and I loveseeing how there's a lot of PGA
(01:45):
pros who are now making theirway to GMs or have been GMs, and
I just love that journey.
I love that story, so I'm superstoked to dive in and for you
to hear all about it Before wedo.
Big thanks to some of our showpartners Kenneth's member
vetting members first, andconcert golf partners, as well
(02:08):
as myself.
The Denny Corby experience.
If you are looking for one ofthe most fun member memorable
event nights your club can have,make sure you check out Denny
Corbycom.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading and comedy.
It is so much fun, but I am alittle bit biased.
If you want to learn more, headon over to DannyCorbycom.
(02:31):
Enough about that, though.
Let's get to this episode.
Private Club Radio listeners.
A welcome to the show.
Rick Schultz, you were on thePGA Tour.
You were touring.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
You were from PGA.
Canadian PGA Never made it allthe way.
All the mini tours and all that.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Really, back then they had just started, sort of
the Corn Fairy that secondary,so I forget what it was called.
Hogan Tour.
I think at first that had to becool to be on tour.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, it was good.
It's rough, you know, when youdon't play well.
And yeah, it was good.
It's rough when you don't playwell and you don't make money.
It's a struggle.
Living out at Motel 6s anddriving from place to place is a
lot different than staying atthe Ritz.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's very true, very true.
How old were you?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I was what 22?
Oh, that's a fun age to bedoing it then yeah, yeah, it was
fun.
I mean I met a lot of goodpeople, had a lot of great
stories and, and you know I'llnever take it back.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
But yeah, Any looking back, any like lessons like you
learned from it?
Was there anything like likelooking back now?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
were you like, oh, like you know, this helped me or
like that helped me, I don'tknow just any like lessons from
doing that whole thing I thinkjust the whole growing up and
living on your own, living inhotel room, I mean, you know, I
can't imagine my son's 27 nowand I'm thinking gosh, gosh, man
, if I told them hey, see youlater.
You're going to go travelacross the United States and in
(04:08):
Canada and be gone for 14 weeks.
You know that's kind of crazy.
So, but again, just you know,I've been in every state in the
union, so it's great.
Been all the way through Canada, spent some time in Mexico.
So North America, I've got totravel quite a bit through golf,
which is kind of cool andexciting.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, and you are one of few who have PGA to general
manager, especially with yourCCM.
How did you go from PGAprofessional to GM?
What was that shift?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Well, I think it was just a matter of responsibility.
Once I became a head pro andthen I was given an opportunity
to be sort of the GM when my GMleft and took on that
responsibility.
I've always been one who wantsto control things and take over,
right, yeah, total type a guy,so it's just a matter of uh, I
(05:10):
enjoy making the decisions, Ilike running the show and and uh
, so just casually, just kind ofmove forward.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know I was taking on more responsibility and then
once I got a gm position at thedeer creek golf club in
littleton, colorado, um, youknow, just that's where I wanted
to stay did you jump in likeright from golf pro to gm, like
with, oh, that that had to be a,uh, a pretty big leap, like
(05:39):
that was like, were you getting,were you learning and being
like groomed for it?
Did you kind of jump right in?
Were you starting to learnabout the management stuff
already?
Because I think there's not, orat least there wasn't, a lot of
educational resources availablefor PGAs to go into that
general manager position, if I'mnot mistaken.
(06:00):
Now, obviously there's a lotmore big focus on education.
So were you already gettinginto it or were you just kind of
like thrown in and then youstarted like learning more?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
No, it's definitely a sort of both.
I mean, I was a head pro for awhile and then you know at that
time there's sort of two tracks.
You sort of could go to acountry club and you know a
high-end club and you're anassistant and you know you
gradually wait for the guy aboveyou to retire to where you can
get more.
Or in this situation it wasAmerican Golf who they had over,
(06:36):
I think 200 courses at thattime and were really controlling
most of the management.
And we're really controllingmost of the management and so
with them you could go work forthem and you'd come in as a head
pro, assistant, general manager, and then how fast they were
(06:57):
growing and how they're goingthrough people.
You probably have a generalmanager job in six months.
So we sort of learn on the flythrough American golf.
And that's where I sort ofstarted.
It was more of a public golf,semi-private atmosphere and so
you just learn by fire gettingin it.
And the GM that I worked for,he ran a restaurant.
He wasn't a golfer at all, sohe taught me a lot of the food
(07:21):
and beverage side of things andI taught him more about the golf
side of things when it camethrough.
But then at that time my lovewas really golf and sort of.
I had another opportunity to goto Colorado and be a head pro
at a club that was just startingup and turning private, and it
was with my buddy, jason, who Ikind of mentioned before.
(07:43):
He runs Columbine Country Clubnow.
He was a GM and he said, hey,I've taken over this club, come
out to Colorado.
And I had family ties inEvergreen right above Denver, so
my wife and I said, heck, yeah,we'll take the leap and run out
there.
And then I became the head prothere and then over time he sort
of another job at at anothercountry club that the owner had
(08:07):
and I sort of took over gm andthat's where it all sort of
started.
Back in gosh.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
he was probably uh, 13, 2013 yeah, now that's a cool
, cool spot to be in and a coolfriend to pull you in like that
and give you that chance andopportunity.
That's a really coolprogression.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
River City Country Club in San Dimas, right out of
college.
And you know, when I took offto go play professionally, you
know he stayed back and starteda business.
So he got in earlier than I didand he went to go work for
American Golf and sort of.
(08:55):
You know he was their fixer.
So he kept moving from courseto course as they needed
somebody else to come in andclean up.
So he kept calling.
He said, hey, I'm in Tallest inMexico, you want to go there?
I'm like no, I'm going to passon that one.
Then it was San Bernardino andI was like no, I'm going to pass
.
And then when he got to ColoradoI said oh, that sounds like a
(09:16):
much better deal.
So that's how it sort ofhappened.
And then, you know, we kind ofnow even still talk weekly about
you know this situation or thatsituation, or what are you
doing.
That's a great thing about theclub managers and even the PGA
of America too, is, you knowwe're so open with each other
and we throw out ideas and whatare you doing about that, or
(09:39):
what event happened, or you knowwhat situation is going on with
you, human resources or othersituations.
So that's been great.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
What sort of like mental shifts did you have to
make, going from, you know, headgolf pro to now GM Cause that
that had to be like stressfulalso to now, you know, being
responsible for a lot morepeople, a lot more jobs, a lot
more responsibilitiesresponsible for a lot more
people, a lot more jobs, a lotmore responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, I mean, I tell all my managers you know, doing
the job is the easy part.
It's managing the people isalways the hardest part.
And even in the same way, Ithink they focus a lot more on
how to lead teams and how to beable to communicate with each.
You know your employees becauseeverybody sort of learns
different listens different.
Some need a kick in the butt,some need a pat on the back, and
(10:30):
it's learning how to, you know,achieve the goals by how it
works best for them.
So really I think being a GMyou went from just being the
head pro, where you're trying tomake everything the center of
happiness down in your pro shopand all the members you know
happy and you're teaching golfand running tournaments, to now
(10:51):
when general manager is moreabout leading each of the
department heads and then thecommunications with the members
and the board of directors andsometimes, you know, I just wish
, man, it would be kind of nicejust to go back to being a head
pro and think about playing golfand giving lessons and how many
less headaches I'd have andprobably how much better I'd
(11:13):
sleep at night, not worryingabout what happens the next day.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, what are some of the things that keep your
head scratching and keeping youup at night as a general manager
?
Keep your head scratching andkeeping you up at night as a
general manager.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well, I mean you're always kind of looking ahead
what's happening, what's goingon at the club, what situations,
you know what member was upsetabout something, or you know how
do we keep the shit going inthe right direction.
And you know you're alwaysworried.
I mean gosh the economy.
The private country clubrevolves around the worried.
I mean gosh the economy.
The private country clubrevolves around the economy.
(11:46):
And I mean it goes down andthere's not much you can do
except sort of hold on andadjust and change.
I think COVID flipped the wholeworld on its end and then
trying to manage day by day bydifferent regulations and
different things that come downthe pipeline.
That's just so quick thatyou've got to be quick to change
(12:08):
and sort of ahead of the curveif you're going to be successful
in this business.
And really it's just where dowe go from here every day?
How do we get forward?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, do you guys have a good strategic plan in
place?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, do you guys have a good strategic plan in
place?
Yeah, we've definitely sort ofchanged our model from I think
we were headed in the directionof being trying to be too high
end of a club in a way.
You know you have to know yourmarket and the prettiest you
(12:45):
know clubhouse, nicest, great,unbelievable service and valet,
but yet not many members want topay for it and that's the fine
line that you run of what canthey afford and what will they
accept with that?
Yeah, with that, with the labormarket being so tough and then
minimum wages increasing so much, it's a tough deal for private
(13:14):
clubs because 70% of yourexpenses are really all labor
related and so when that minimumwage goes up a dollar, it truly
affects the bottom line for aprivate country club.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, was the club starting?
So was it trying just to do so?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
it was trying to be that really high Trying to be a
little higher right, a littlehigher end.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
So was it like just raising the initiation, raising
the dues like big capital, likeprojects?
Was it trying to do?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, a little bit of that.
Yeah, taking a step back.
It's more of trying to uh,increase the service levels to
the point where the dues linewouldn't really justify it.
Yeah, that's, that's.
The fine line with any club isthat you want to be able to
exceed their expectations but beable to live within their
budget.
And that was the sort ofsituation.
(14:05):
So I think with us.
You know, my goal and thoughtsare that you want to be the
friendliest club, the mostenjoyable, that you want to be
acceptable, that you know wedon't want to be the stuffiest
or most pretentious.
And you know our club wasfounded by two gentlemen,
(14:26):
basically, who wanted everydayMedford residents to be able to
join a private country club andsort of.
We were getting a little toofar away from that being trying
to be somebody much higher thanwe were, and I think it kind of
turned off the community andturned off the members a little
bit, because, mr Jackson, hewanted everybody to be able to
(14:49):
afford a membership.
It shouldn't be so I mean ourdues are full in our 778.
And with the amenities that wehave 27 holes, two practice
holes, double-ended range, wehave a fitness center pool,
indoor tennis facility,pickleball facility a miniature
(15:10):
golf course, batting cages,bocce courts yeah, we've got a
huge facility and anywhere elseyou'd be paying $1,000, $1,500
for, and paying $30,000 to$150,000 to get in, and we're
$3,000.
And the board's kept it.
(15:31):
Yeah, the board's kept us thatlow.
So, like anybody who's inPacific Palisades, this is rough
.
Maybe a little too early to sayand I hate that, but you know
it's really.
I think, uh, we were marketingtowards the bay area in
california because, I mean, theweather here is similar to
central california and, uh, forthree thousand dollars and 778 a
(15:55):
month and you get all theseamenities, it's, it's a
unbelievable value bargain inthe private club industry yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
No, that's really neat that the club looked at it,
took a step back.
You know I love that.
That's so cool.
I think a lot of I shouldn'tsay a lot of clubs, but there
are ones that you know clubs,organizations, whatever you want
who lose that mission, thatvalue, that like initial, what
Compass of where you're headedso it's so cool that?
(16:25):
so how?
How did that?
When did that start happening?
Was it the boards?
Was it some members like whatwas, what was that?
Because and and you can answeras best as you can because I
know you're new, ish, new, newer, uh and is is that part of the
reason why you were brought inis to help help you with this a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I think it's a general manager, you know, with
any club this is, I think, myseventh club that I've run and
sort of you come in and the GMsort of sets the tone and kind
of directs.
You know the way that he'strying to push the board and
club members in, and the last GMsort of was pushing a little
(17:04):
higher end, more than what Ithink the board and members
wanted.
So, uh, the change reallyhappened by the change in gms.
Uh, he took, he took a newposition at a super high-end
club in the desert and so hekind of fits that's what he
wanted and, yeah, you know.
So after that change, um, itcame in and brought, brought in
(17:28):
a golf guy.
He was not a golf guy, he was afood and beverage guy.
So their focus was really backon trying to get the golf course
.
Uh, the main focus and that'swhat we've done and just focus
on the fun and enjoyment of theclub and not necessarily that we
have to be the the premier clubin all of oregon.
Yeah, I don't think thatnecessarily means success.
(17:50):
Um, you know, in the privateclub industry I think happy
members who are inviting theirfriends to join is the true, you
know denominator of whetheryou're successful or not, and
that's what we're getting backto yeah, no, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I was, um, uh, it was uh, chatting with jim jim
miller.
He used to run the sona nelpclub in uh, california, colorado
, and he and he's, and when, uh,when we were chatting he was,
he was like it's it's one thingwhen, when the members will say,
oh, this was great, but he'slike it's another thing when the
(18:27):
members' guests go yo thisplace or when they start saying
stuff.
That's always when you're like,all right, it's a good little
pat on the back when you can getthe guests saying really good
things about it.
The members are your bestsalespeople.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean happy members inviting others, and that's the
key.
So getting that done is, youknow, the goal of every GM.
You shouldn't have to spendthousands of dollars on
marketing strategies andpublications and radio and TV.
I mean just happy membersinviting others is the core way
(19:08):
to increase your membership.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I think you know, going back to the reason, what
you guys are trying toaccomplish, to get back to your
roots, is when they can actuallyarticulate why they're a member
of their club too.
It's not just like oh, we're amember, how come you should join
, why?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Ah, it's a good club.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
But it's like when you know where the club's going,
why your member's there, andyeah, no, that's really really
cool.
What's been some of the hardeststuff about trying to maybe not
the hardest stuff, but what'sthat journey been like?
Now, going back to your roots,what's that been like?
How do you start that process?
(19:48):
Like so, now you, you know newgm, new, new kind of vision, or
getting the vision back on track.
What's your first order ofbusiness?
Now you know what I mean.
Like so, from your, yourperspective, how do you start
that?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
well, it's kind of the culture that you, you bring
into your team.
I mean, the most important jobof a GM, too, is to build a team
that supports you, that isthinking the same way, going in
the right direction, and it'ssort of having to, you know,
(20:22):
create that culture and thatfeelings.
Those feelings from thefrontline staff, you know, come
from the department heads, whichgoes from GM to department
heads to the frontline staff.
When the frontline staff arehappy and energetic and feel
great about what's going aroundat the club, well then that
emanates into the membership andthen from there the membership
(20:44):
emanates into their friends andfamily that want to be part of
the club.
You know that fear of missingout, FOMO yeah, that we all talk
about, but it is.
It's creating events andmemories that will last a
lifetime, that you want otherpeople to enjoy with you.
(21:07):
That's a great thing aboutprivate club industry able to
create those lifelong memoriesand generational memories.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, how will you know?
And when you know when you'vegot the ship back on track?
How will you know when it'sback on course and heading in
the right direction?
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Oh, I think you just feel it within the membership.
You know they're happy, they'reenergetic, they're coming back,
they're visiting the club.
You know, my thought is themore times that person drives
down the driveway or drivestheir car to the club property,
(21:52):
I mean that brings value,whether it's eating and drinking
, it's working out, it's playinggolf, it's playing bocce,
bringing their kids, grandkids,to the pool.
I mean that's the goal Ifthey're starting to use the club
again.
I think that's the, you know,the telltale sign of success or
not, and then your membershipnumbers will increase because of
that.
I mean, some clubs are full andthat's great, um, but most
(22:14):
clubs, most average clubs, um,you know there's they're always
looking for the next set ofmembers.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
so how many?
How many memberships do youhave?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
about 935 right now, with about 510 or so golfing and
400 social that is solid yeahyeah, it's real solid at the
height of uh coven.
They were up over a thousand,about 1100 um, but I, just as
other clubs, sort of that socialmembership and uh people who
(22:47):
joined do you have a capacity?
You have a limit, a cap uh,yeah, we have, about 1100 is our
is our limit.
Yeah, we have a cap on ourgolfing, but again, with 27
holes um, you know, we aredefinitely far from fully
utilized on our golf course.
It's the social membership thatwas kind of, I think, twofold.
(23:10):
At that 1,100 number youcouldn't get courts, it was hard
to get a sit at the pool.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So now we're sort of stabilized at that number and
that I think is where themembership really wants to be is
sort of at this number.
Yeah, is there or has therebeen thought of like lowering
the cap, like just going like,hey, if we keep it at this, and
then starting to maybe build amember like a list off that?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
yeah, I don't think we're sort of at that area right
now.
I think that's one of the toughdecisions uh the board's gonna
have to make.
Uh kind of now is, where do wesit?
Are we happy with our numbers?
If we are, you know, we mighthave to ask everybody to pay a
bit more.
And I think once you get tothat level of you know that
(24:01):
tipping point, you don't want tocharge too much and you want to
make sure the members feel likeYou're doing your part on the
backside as a GM, controllingexpenses, and not a bunch of
waste.
Once they feel that, then Ithink they're more willing to
pay, as long as they know it'sgoing to the right place.
Yeah, again, a lot of it is thetransparency that every GM and
(24:24):
every board Strives to have andevery member says they're never
transparent enough.
You know, and again it,transparency's there, but most
members, you know they just wantto enjoy their membership.
They don't want to be involvedwith the committee or on a board
.
You know they're great to aMonday morning quarterback, but
(24:45):
to step up and and lead isanother thing.
Actually, here I've seen a lotmore enthusiasm for
committee-level people and forthe board.
I think that kind of shows too,about the happiness of the club
members as a whole, thehappiness of of the club members
(25:06):
as a whole.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Um, they're excited and they're they're eager to to
help out.
Yeah, what, uh, do you haveadvice words to?
For?
What about, like, youngerpeople who are coming up through
PGA and all of that?
What, uh, you know?
A word to the wise a word tothe wise.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I think it kind of sits down where.
Well, you know, what do youwant her to do?
I mean, there's a lot of PGAguys coming up through the ranks
and they love golf and theywant to teach and and be head
pros.
You know, they don't want tohave quite of the responsibility
and, uh, all the extraheadaches, you know it's a, it's
a lot of of a lot of headaches.
(25:44):
And I had a lot of worriesabout, you know, each department
making sure things are runningright.
Um, so I think it depends onhow how far they want to go.
Um, you know, in this businessyou got to be a caregiver all
the way around and it's just amatter of what level do you want
?
And again, for me, I justwanted more responsibility, I
(26:05):
wanted to run the show, I wantedto be the boss.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
You know, that's sort of my mentality yeah so well, I
think it's it's probably neattoo that it at least there's.
There's that option likethere's that trajectory, it's
hey, there's this, and let'sjust say this doesn't work out.
I can start learning andeducating and starting to
maneuver lateral moves, diagonalmoves, but you could figure it
(26:31):
out.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
The PGA of America and CMIA through CMA and hotel
restaurant other things you know.
both have a good ancillary setof classes that you can learn
which you're not as good at andthere's also great mentoring now
going on in both organizationsthat you know you can really
(27:02):
reach out to people and you knowlearn and again sort of goes to
that career path, whether youwant to be at that high end club
or you want to be at thatregular Joe club or do you want
to be the resort public, privateyou know whole thing.
What do you really want to beand then from there you sort of
have to pick your course whereyou want to be.
(27:25):
And you know some people justwant to run those daily fees and
you know, go that way.
And then others want to be moreof that relationship manager,
which comes with a lot moreheadaches, I think, but a lot
more rewards.
And you get to see, you knowyoung kids grow up from, you
(27:46):
know teenagers to going away tocollege, to come back and be
successful.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
And they're still better than you.
No, it's like how in the world?
No.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah.
But, that's great.
I think with that it's just amatter of picking your poison,
really.
Yeah, At a point.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, it's just a matter of picking your, picking
your poison, really, yeah, at apoint, yeah, it's.
It's just neat that likethere's like what many, many,
many rooms in the house, ofclubs or whatever I forget that
saying many rooms in the houseor wherever, but like there's so
many cool, it's like that'sjust the path, like people have
so many different options andthey can just open up the doors
to so many different things.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think one great thing about private club
industry is that I've had a lotof people start as a bartender
or a barback or a cart guy andnow you see them running country
clubs or you see them beinghead pros at country clubs or
you see them running huge foodand beverage operations.
So I mean it's kind of neat inthat situation where we get to
touch a lot of young kids, youknow as they grow up and trying
(28:57):
to decide what they want to do.
You know what are you reallyexcited about?
What side?
I mean, if you like sales, youbecome a membership director.
If you really like the food andbeverage operations, you become
a food and beverage manager.
If you love the golf side of it,you become a golf.
Hey, if you like the fitnessand the tennis and the kids
activities and the other things,you could be a sports director.
(29:19):
So you got a million differentways to go and it's a great like
.
A club is just a great trainingprogram for young kids as they
start high school and go throughcollege.
You know you have a lot of kidsthat their first job is this,
because mom and dad said, hey,you've got to go get a job, go
ask if they need a car guy or abartender or a lifeguard or that
(29:43):
.
So we get to mold a lot ofyoung kids and that's again one
of the great parts of my job isgetting to see these kids grow
up into productive andsuccessful you know, young men
and women, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
It's.
It's clubs are almost the rightclub, the right GM, who like,
who thinks like this and seesthe vision and gives that vision
.
When you work at a club likethat, it's like you're having a
professional development planwith a pay plan attached to it.
There's more to it, but if youjust sift through a little bit
(30:23):
you can see the bigger pictureof it.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
But like if you you know, just sift through a little
bit, you can see the biggerpicture of it Right.
A lot of times, I mean, we'reyou go to school to learn
education, but you come to aclub to learn life and how to
interact.
Again, I think so much of oursuccess comes from interaction,
of how we are able to interactwith others.
And again, having so manymembers and touch points with
(30:48):
members, you learn to yourcommunication skills, your
interpersonal skills, you knowhow to, how to talk, how to act,
how to stand and be confident.
And again, you see a lot ofkids who are sort of timid their
first job and then they sort ofget comfortable and get more
confidence in their, theirabilities and out front with
(31:11):
people.
And it's great, I mean I canthink of a couple of kids here
where last year when I saw them,you know kind of shy and timid
and now they're, you know, ayear in, or coming back from
college after, after going awayfor a year, and you see them
come back and they're standingup straighter and more confident
and reach across the table atyou to shake your hand, as
(31:34):
opposed to you know coming insort of shoulders down, head
down.
And again, just a great part ofof having so many young people
work under you, that you get toaffect so many lives yeah,
that's awesome.
I don't know Again, being veryfew of the PGA and CMAA, I think
(31:56):
it's likely.
I have both experience.
Not everybody has the wholegolf side of it.
I think that is a bigdifference for most clubs.
I think that, circling back, atfirst it was the CMAA and a lot
of clubs were hiring, you know,food and beverage people
(32:16):
because of almost every club thefood and beverage operations is
not very good.
You know, when you're lookingfor a new GM, it's usually
because people stop coming tothe restaurant and just the
food's not good.
So every time you know you'relooking at a new GM, they were
always constantly trying to workon the food and beverage side
of it and I think now it'scircled back to where now boards
(32:40):
are starting to look moretowards PGA guys, because the
golf course is the mostimportant part on clubs.
With golf, obviously, cityclubs and other things, it's
more about the food and beverage.
But any club with a golf coursenow I think that PGA initials
behind your name are reallygetting more and more powerful
(33:01):
in the industry.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, and it touches on what you said as well, and
it's something I've been, youknow, there's a couple of GMs
and just people I've beenchatting with too.
It's you know, each club is itsown thing.
It has its own culture, itsvalues, its own personality and,
just like you as a GM and as asclub professionals, everyone
has their own style and stufftoo.
(33:24):
And just because you applydoesn't mean you're the best fit
.
So it is also about like Ithink now there's a lot more
people like try going more withtheir guts and saying no to
things because they just knowit's not a good fit.
And on both ends theprofessional and the clubs and
the boards it's really now going.
Hey, this is our issue, let'stry to, not our issue, but
(33:46):
here's where we're going, here'swhere we want to be.
Things could be going great,could be not, but hey, let's
find that right person that is agood fit.
I think that's really importanttoo, because now it's like you
have a special set of skills andfor the right club you're a
really good fit.
So why not try to find that?
I think sometimes they go likethey just apply for a job and
get pissed if they don't get it.
(34:07):
It's like we're really good fit, though, and were you a good
fit for them, like maybe youjust weren't great Like, so it's
cool seeing that and knowingthat you know there's there's
more special fits for peoplelike that out there and just how
like what a what a specificproblem does to solve, and to
know that you can solve thatspecific problem, that is killer
(34:28):
.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, and again, I think, with the interviewing
process, as much as they werealways interviewing me, I was
interviewing them.
I mean I want that culture fromthem, I want that feeling from
them.
You know, I've felt that atdifferent clubs.
Every time you sort of get inand you sort of feel the board
(34:49):
and for GMs it really comes downto the board's really your boss
, not the members.
I mean they give you a lot ofinput but really, you know, your
job depends on whether theboard is behind you and thinking
the same way.
So you know, I took a job at aplace that I thought was going
to be, you know, higher andbetter and had more things, and
(35:12):
it was.
You know, I took it but knowingthat the board was not a good
working board.
It was very, it was very tough.
And again I found thatsituation where, even though the
members were great, it was sucha poor board that it was brutal
, it was horrible and a badsituation.
(35:32):
And a lot of us GMs find usfind in the same situation to
where you know you could have achange in board members and then
all of a sudden you go from aship that's sailing in the right
direction by the nine boardmembers in the GM and all of a
sudden you've got a couple ofpeople jump on there and now
(35:52):
they're turning the ship wayleft or right and you know you
find yourself in a differentsituation.
And again I think the clubs thatare most successful are those
that hire the right people, hirethe right GM and allow them to
do the job.
I was talking to a colleagueyesterday where, you know, in
the past year they've lost theirGM, their superintendent, they
(36:15):
went through two GMs, lost theirGM, their superintendent, they
went through two GMs, lost theirsuperintendent, their food and
beverage manager, theircontroller, their office manager
, and it's all because the boardis sort of taking over running
the club.
And again it goes back to thatwhole culture.
You know it's toxic there andthe board is beta toxic now and
you know nobody wants to workfor him.
(36:36):
Even I had a phone call fromone of my past employees who was
looking for another job becauseit just wasn't fun, it was
brutal, and you know the boardwas trying to run everything and
they just weren't allowingtheir skilled people to run the
club for them and and you seethat situation a lot, I'm afraid
, in the in the club business.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So can you?
Can you spot that though?
Like you as a or do or do someclubs hide that well?
Like do some boards hide itwell that they put on like, just
just like there's people whoput on a good, a great interview
and then they get to the job.
Who did we hire?
I'm sure?
I'm sure it's the same for forboards and clubs too.
I'm like, well, who did we hire?
I'm sure it's the same forboards and clubs too.
I'm sure some hide that verywell and look, oh look, come on
(37:18):
in.
The water is warm.
You get in.
You're like this is freezing.
What did you guys get me into?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Well, and the club industry is kind of small too,
right, you know, if you see aclub that burns through three or
four GMs in a matter of years,you to work too hard.
But when it comes down to ityou got to think there's some
dysfunction in the board withinitself that's creating those.
And again I've had it to whereyou sort of the code for us
(37:45):
general managers and pros arelike, hey, would you put that
guy in your foursome?
Would you, you know hire?
Somebody calls hey, do you knowthis guy?
What do you think about him?
I don't think I'd invite him tomy foursome, you know, next
saturday, but uh, he's okay.
(38:05):
Yeah, um, so you, you find itboth ways in that.
But yeah, the board is reallythe determining factor on that,
on that club, whether it'senjoyable and fun or just brutal
yeah, that was good, that wasgood um the hard truth, right,
you know, and it's no, it's,it's, it is, it's um, no it.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
And it's so funny because other people have said
it.
It's like you have theseamazing people sometimes who run
successful.
You know they're successful intheir own right and run
extremely well-run companies,but for some reason you get them
into a board and some of themare on boards of other things
and you're like how in the worlddo you guys all function other
ways?
Speaker 2 (38:44):
but yeah, well, I think the private club is
industry in itself is sospecific.
You know that if you run a youknow manufacturing company or
you run even if you own arestaurant, right, all these
guys own restaurants and barsand they say, oh, my bar makes
money.
(39:04):
Like, well, yeah, your barisn't open from 5 am till 11 pm
every night and you don't havefive people waiting for the next
member to walk in.
I mean you can't set thosehours.
I mean it doesn't make sense,financial sense, to do a lot of
things we do in the food andbeverage industry and, you know,
in private clubs, but we do itbecause it's customer service,
(39:26):
it's not designed to be a profitcenter.
And that's where they lose.
You know their understanding ofwhat they think they know as a
private company owner ratherthan a board member of a private
country club.
So that's where you get.
(39:48):
You're always trying to findthe lawyer, the, you know the,
the insurance guy.
You've got to have thoseparticular professions.
So they, they help you with.
You know the situations at theclub, but yet you know some of
your best people are justregular Joes who aren't trying
to be, you know, the presidentof a club.
(40:10):
They just want to tell you whatthey love about the club and
and want to be supportive of theclub.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
So keep your hands out of the operations and just
make sure the numbers look good,and then we'll call it a day,
guys.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah what makes what makes your group happy?
Where do you want to take theclub?
I mean, if you guys all want tobe just the easiest, funnest
club and enjoyable, whereanimals can come anytime they,
you know, dogs or whatever.
I mean that's, that's thedirection, right?
Speaker 1 (40:41):
yeah, it's like I can't imagine some of them going
on a cruise ship, walking intothe captain's area, going what
does this button do?
Let me see that if I turn this,does it move the wheel like
stop, like, yeah yeah, tell mewhat kind of uh luau party you
want.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Uh, you know that's what we'll focus on.
Is the fun and enjoyment.
But it's, you know, it's great.
You know my wife says, well,what are you doing today at work
?
I'm like I don't know, we'llfind out it.
Just you walk in and you knowjust 100 things come at you
constantly during the day andyou just put out fires and try
(41:19):
to get ahead of things.
So it's kind of fun in the factthat you know it's not just day
to day.
I could never be an accountantor something where you're just
crunching numbers.
You know day after day.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
You know, it's just organized chaos, as I tell our
guys and guys.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
You know, you know, on the back side, when you walk
behind in the kitchen, it'sorganized chaos.
But when you walk out into the,into the, room of the members
all's great, so yeah hey, uh, wethe power just went out, uh,
now what?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
out.
Uh, now what?
Guess what we're havingcandlelight tonight.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Uh, crazy, early valentine's day.
We have this big spaghetti feedthat the members throw at one
part at one club and it wascalled the olga spaghetti feed,
the oakdale ladies golfassociation.
So, you know, the ladies putthis all on and the guys, the
senior men, help in the back ofthe kitchen cooking the pasta
and doing all that and it's sortof all hands on to where it's
all members and sort of thisfundraiser that they do.
(42:24):
Well, you know, there's 250people in our building and the
lights go out.
Well, now it's like, oh my gosh, now I've got a bunch of
members you know who aren't mystaff.
I've only got like three staffmembers that night With the
knives in the kitchen, yeah.
And so you know what happens.
It's like, well, okay, let'sfind candles.
So it was great, we found abunch of candles.
(42:46):
Now they said, well, I mean, wehave gas, but we have no, we
have no water, because we're ona well, so we can't get any
water.
I'm like, well, we got ice inthe ice machine, so put a bunch
of ice in the pots and boil itand get it to where the water
and now we can make the pastaand the sauce.
(43:06):
So we ended up throwing a wholeparty, you know, with no
electricity, no running water.
And you know, after the event,the ladies came to me and said
do you think we could do it bycandlelight?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
next year.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
I'm like, yes, candlelight, but yes,
electricity.
We could just turn off thelights, but again.
That's where, again, you haveto be quick on your feet.
As a GM, you know just how canyou make that organized chaos
work on the front side.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Limitations force creativity.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're fast thinkers.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
That's funny, that's really good.
Hey, thank you so much forcoming on.
This was such a greatconversation.
I really enjoyed theperspective and keep killing it.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I appreciate the opportunity to come out.
I mean grateful for the CMA,grateful for the PGA.
I just hope more and morepeople decide that they want to
come do this.
It's a great profession, agreat time.
I enjoy what I do and therehaven't been too many days when
I wake up and say, oh my gosh, Ihate, I don't want to go to
(44:12):
work.
You know, every day is just anew opportunity to learn
something new or meet somebodynew.
That's awesome, great industry.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
I hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
If you did enjoy it, guess what?
If you can share it withsomeone who you think might also
enjoy it, that means theabsolute world.
You can also give us a rating,five stars and a comment on any
of the platforms that you areconsuming podcasts on.
It means the absolute world.
It costs nothing.
(44:40):
I'm your host, danny Corby.
That's this episode.
Until next time, catch you allon the Flippity Flip.
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