April 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Kevin Ehlert shares his journey from dishwasher to GM to consultant and certified coach, bringing a refreshing perspective on what leadership really looks like when you strip away the title, pressure, and 'always on' mentality that many GMs feel they must maintain.
• Starting as a dishwasher and working his way up through various city clubs
• The distinct differences between mentoring, coaching, and consulting
• Why leaders often feel isolated and unable to show vulnerability
• How curiosity may be the most important leadership trait
• The value of continuous learning through books and shared experiences
• Finding ways to create safe spaces for leaders to be authentic
• Why we should celebrate milestones along our leadership journey
• Approaching leadership like orienteering - having a map but being flexible with the route
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode I sit down withmy friend, kevin Ellert, all
the way from Wisconsin, fromWisconsin.
And what a great guy, what agreat person, a good human.
I've known Kevin can't tell youhow many years now five, six,
seven, pre-pandemic, for sure.
(00:41):
We met at a CMAA event theWisconsin Badger many, many
years ago and we got to chattingat CMAA and got to recording
and it almost turned into acoaching session for me.
It felt like, because then hestarted interviewing me and at
one point I was like wait,what's going on here?
But just a great person, a goodhuman, starting off as a
dishwasher to GM to nowconsultant and certified coach,
(01:06):
and he brings a real refreshingperspective to the club space.
We recorded this episode at theCMA conference back in Tampa
and we talk about whatleadership really looks like
when you strip away the title,the pressure and that always on
mentality that I think so manyGMs think that they have to have
.
We talk about the differencebetween mentoring, coaching and
(01:28):
just giving advice, why there'sa bunch of managers who feel
alone at the top and what we cando about that.
And one of my favorite thingsis why curiosity might be the
most important leadership traitof all.
I'm super stoked to bring thisepisode for you all.
We had a great conversation.
Before we get to that, a quickthanks to some of our show
(01:50):
partners Kenneth's Member,vetting Club, capital Group
Members, first Golf LifeNavigators and Concert Golf
Partners, as well as myself.
The Denny Corby Experiencethere's excitement, there's
mystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading, comedy and crowd work.
One of the most fun,interactive, engaging
experiences and shows you canbring to your members.
(02:11):
Want to learn more?
Head on over to dennycorbycom.
But enough about that, let'sget to the episode Private Club
(02:35):
Radio.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Let's welcome to the show.
Kevin Eller.
Kevin Ehlert Came over rightafter World War I and were
embarrassed about what washappening in Germany.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So I wish they had just changed.
You know American.
They refused to speak German.
My grandfather was born hereand never learned German.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
There's a lot of families that are like that.
There's some that will own andkeep their traditions.
Others are like we are going tomodernize and not learned
German.
There's a lot of families thatare like that.
There's some that will own andkeep their traditions, and
others are like we are going tomodernize and not adjust at all.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And so Wells, minnesota, was German-Polish,
and then I grew up in Bryson.
We were out in the farm country, so just how the lines were
drawn.
So I went to Bryson, which isNorwegian, but during World War
II there was a POW camp in Wells, just outside of town, and
German POWs came over and werethere and there was one guard at
(03:36):
the gate and people they eitherworked at.
So there was a Blue Bunnyfactory, there was a Del Monte
canning factory in town and theyhad all the farmers.
So there's a Blue Bunny factory, there was a Del Monte canning
factory in town and they had allthe farmers and they actually
came over to family and so theyhad to spend.
I think, if I remember they hadto spend Friday night at the
(04:01):
POW camp, otherwise Saturdaythrough and maybe it was
Saturday it was either Fridaynight night or saturday night.
Wow, so like life in a pew wcamp here was very different
than in germany and what?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
what year was that then?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
in 1940s and they made.
They had a hemp factory.
They made rope for initiallythe factory made rope hemp for
shipping and stuff and then itwas all for the war yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And then were you the first person in your family to
get in the clubs.
How did you find your way?
Was it school after school,during school?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I fell into it.
So I put my son like 15 yearsold, dad's, like you should have
a job in the wintertime.
I grew up on a farm so weworked, you know, spring through
fall, but like get some pocketmoney.
So I washed dishes at theLegion, no, at the pub.
So there's Bryson's, this tinytown, there's two bars in town,
(05:05):
and then the funny thing is aawas right behind it on the same,
you know, same front mainstreet pub, legion, aa on the
backside.
But so I'm 15, I'm washingdishes and about 10, 30 at night
somebody out of the bar isyelling, hey, can you come and
help?
And the bartender had passedout.
(05:26):
And so I, from 10, 30 till oneat night, all I really did was
open beer and pour straight.
With 15, statute of limitationsis gone.
I'm sure I'm fine at this point, yeah.
So in a sense, actually,truthfully, I got into this
business through Boy Scouts.
(05:48):
You know, you go to summer camp, yeah, you cook for four or
five, six hundred people or youcook for your small group, stuff
like that.
So I got into the hospitalityside that way.
And then in college I worked inbars, restaurants, clubs.
And then in college I worked inbars, restaurants, clubs, you
know, go serve banquet serverfor a club when they need help
(06:09):
and stuff like that.
So that's how I kind of fell inand I went to school for
physics and engineering.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And then music and dance for minors.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, I guess if you're going to properly jump,
you should know the propertrajectory to jump off the foot
and land properly.
So the college piece.
I thought I wanted to be anarchitect, be an engineer.
I was the first one in ourfamily to go to college Really
(06:54):
so and I realized, as I was kindof finishing up, that there's
no way I'm going to be adraftsman and an architect and
sit in some office and draw.
I'm an extrovert.
I'm not a functioning extrovert.
I'm not, you know.
I'm like I need this and I needto help people.
Where was your first managementgig?
It was at a little semi-privatenine-hole golf course west side
(07:14):
of the Twin Cities calledRiver's Edge.
They had a big banquetoperation.
They had a big restaurant and acute little nine-hole golf
course.
There's a river that ranthrough it Darn thing flooded
every spring, you know, becauseyou know rain runoff in
Minnesota was bad.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Were you always in?
No, because you were inColorado for a bit right.
No, no, you were always inMinnesota.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Minnesota, wisconsin, and then I did spend seven
years in California.
That's what I was thinkingCalifornia, so not in Folsom
Prison, but what was thedifference between?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Because it had to be a slight change of pace from
Minnesota to California.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I went from one city club to another.
So I mean, and I actually went,so I managed a woman's club,
the woman's club in Minneapolis,and then I went to the Sutter
Club club, which had been amen's only club, um, and then so
the state broke them and inthey said they, california can't
(08:16):
describe, yeah, you know.
And they, they hated the setterclub.
It was right across from thecapitol, very republican or very
conservative club, and so thestate said, fine, you can, um,
you can discriminate by by sexif you want.
And then they wrote a law thatsaid no organizations that
(08:38):
discriminate may have a liquorlicense.
And so then the club put to avote and it passed like 98%.
They had like 10 votes, no, sotheir liquor license was more
important than some stupidprinciple of not letting women
in, where the women's club letmen in in the 70s and actually I
(09:06):
kind of went back and I readthrough their history they never
prohibited men from joining,but in the 70s, you know,
somebody passed away and thehusband was like hey, can I keep
the membership?
You know our family's growingup here and they're like sure,
we don't care.
But yeah, it was a littledifferent, um, although
(09:29):
sacramento itself is a in a lotof senses, like the midwest.
Uh, it's why, uh, the kings gotall the crap about being a cow
town, you know when, rememberwhen, nba, all that.
But no, it was a littledifferent because Sacramento
(09:52):
itself was a government town,like there was not Minneapolis,
st Paul, twin Cities was so muchmore diverse, like you had
Medtronic, boston Scientific, 3m, honeywell, like, I think, the
biggest congregation of Fortune500 companies and maybe still
(10:12):
and so a very intellectuallydiverse, yeah, and not as much
banking as you do find out, likein Des Moines or stuff like
that.
So it actually was a little.
It wasn't nearly as diverse insome senses, and the pace of
(10:33):
life in Sacramento was actuallypretty slow.
Really, it's a government town,nothing happens, and I don't
mean to be disrespectful or mean, you know, and it was weird
Back then.
So it was 2008,.
Sacramento's marketing was we're90 minutes from San Francisco,
(10:54):
we're 90 minutes from Lake Tahoeand we're 90 minutes from Napa
Valley.
And I remember getting workingwith a chamber group in the city
.
I'm like, why are you puttingyour marketing on three other
places?
You're the sixth largesteconomy in the world.
It's here.
Sure, it all happens elsewhere.
(11:17):
It's here.
Who cares about San Franciscoor Napa or Tahoe?
Own it Exactly, they didn't ownit.
Own it and exactly they didn'town it.
So the town was slow, like wewere a city club.
We closed at 5 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
We weren't open for dinner, because no one came.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
No one came.
You know, they went out to thesuburbs, went out to the country
clubs at night.
Lunch was booming, Yep,breakfast or no, we did
breakfast.
They shot themselves in thefoot because where they served
breakfast they required coat andtie.
And here was the crazy thing.
So we're in California, whichis already laid back, yeah, and
(11:59):
in town the lawyers didn't evenwear a suit, except they had
suits in their closets at workif they had to go to court.
And on Fridays we were so slow,even at lunch, because we
didn't allow jeans, andeverybody, and I mean everybody
in Sacramento, wore jeans onFriday.
So, but they still wanted to becoat and tie, yeah, in that
(12:24):
room, but yet they wouldn't comeand use it.
So, anyways.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So how many city clubs were you at?
Just those two.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Those two, and then I did work in San Francisco.
I did a year, a little over ayear, doing consulting at a
woman's club in San Francisco aswell.
So three big city clubs in mycareer.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And then what made you pivot, from management to
the consulting and things thatyou're doing now consulting and
coaching.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think finding you know one, finding a way to give
back.
I've always been a coach.
How so?
Even back in high school,people asked for help.
I'd see someone who needed helpwith something and I'm not
talking about they need helpwith math or stuff like that,
but life stuff and so I thinkpart of it.
(13:16):
I'll go back to Boy Scouts,because there, in some senses,
they teach you how to mentor.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
What's the difference between a mentor and a coach?
Is there?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Mentors usually don't get paid Coaches.
Do you know, a coach issomewhat transactional, it
doesn't mean you don't care forclients and things like that.
But with a mentor you'rebuilding a relationship and
usually it's someone older andsomeone younger, but you know
(13:56):
the the mentee is meant to havea built, have built trust and
have a safe space.
I guess that's the popular wordterm now.
But you know, hey, I don't knowhow to do this, or I'm scared
of this, or you know.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So is it more like tough love versus like.
So is it more like mentoring isa little bit more hand-holding,
whereas coaching is a littlebit more like, okay, shut up and
just do it.
Like a little bit more I wantto say no, shut up and do it is
consulting, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So I got Shut up and do it is consulting, okay.
Okay.
So I got certified as a coachthis year, like I've done this
forever, I've never beencertified.
And so I took this sabbatical.
My wife was like you should getcertified, you should.
You know, you've been doingthis forever.
(14:41):
And I found out I was doingabout 30% of it wrong.
You know, that's a big changeforever.
And I found out I was doingabout 30% of it wrong.
You know, and that's a big Sure.
And so here's the deal as aconsultant, you tell your client
or the company this is what'swrong, here's how you fix it.
As a coach, you ask questionsand truthfully, and then I'll
(15:02):
talk.
The mentee piece I'll talkabout as well.
So, as a coach, you ask somequestions, leading questions,
you listen and then you wantthem to have the aha moment or
the light bulb go off.
You know, sometimes be visit,but it.
And every once, while it opens,you know, the Sun comes out and
yeah, and the angels say, butyou.
(15:23):
And so what I was doing wrongis I was conflating coaching and
consulting a little bit.
I was too eager to tell youwhat was wrong.
You know, and sometimes youhave to the client has to
struggle through.
You know, really has tostruggle through.
Yeah, and I mean, all of ushave blocks.
I have blocks even to this day,and you want to help them work
(15:45):
through that block and it's bestfor them if they do it and
they're guided through, asopposed to you telling them
they're blocked.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Is that sort of like.
The difference too between likea, I guess, like a more
experienced coach is like whenyou're first you get it, you're
more eager and you want to justlike see them get the results
and like that's it.
But it's like as you kind ofgrow a little bit, you're like
oh no, this has to be right, anda coach is not a therapist,
like it's.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Like it's, it's very easy to get sucked in, um, and
so I mean, I have a couple oftherapists for people, um, like,
I always encourage them, hey,do you have someone that you
know if you're a spiritualperson, you know.
Do you have someone at your youknow if it's a church or
whatever that is?
You know.
But some of these things aretherapy, they're not coaching,
(16:34):
you know.
You know sometimes you'redealing with mental illness or
you know.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So the difference between coach, mentor and
consultant.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
So the mentor piece, I think it's both consulting and
coaching.
But I have a couple of peoplethat we have been.
They started off as a mentor,as a mentee, 10, 15 years ago 15
(17:04):
years ago the one I'm thinkingof specifically and we still
connect.
So here's the thing, I think,with a mentee the question what
do you want to be when you growup?
Magician, okay.
But now what does that mean?
Let's dig into that a littlebit.
(17:26):
What does that mean?
What do you want to be fiveyears from now?
Do you still want to be amagician?
If the answer is no, you wantto be something else.
Or do you want to have, fiveyears from now, I want to be on
Penn Teller, I want to befeatured, those types of things.
(17:48):
Five years from now, I want tohave kids, or I want to open up
a magic school, all those typesof things, and so having that
relationship, you're asked thatquestion all the time.
My youngest daughter came homefrom christmas and we've had our
(18:09):
first serious conversation.
She's like dad, what do youwant to be when you grow up?
She asked you, she asked me.
We still, we still do so.
I have some.
I grew up on a farm and mygrandmother said some very
inspiring things to me.
One God gave you two ears andone mouth.
Use them accordingly.
Two if you're not learning,you're dying, and unfortunately
(18:35):
she lost her eyesight later inlife and so she couldn't read
anymore, and that just was sohard for her.
But she's like you need tolearn and learn from books,
learn from people, and so I'vehad this thirst for knowledge.
You know it's something thatwas instilled in us as just and
(18:57):
it wasn't you have to do this.
It just, it was natural.
It was what our family did.
It was natural, it was what ourfamily did.
So I try to, as a mentor and asa coach, I try to instill that
in people.
Some people hate reading books.
I have one daughter.
It's hard sometimes, yeah, soshe listens to podcasts, she
(19:20):
listens to books on tape Yep Nowyou're dating yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Books on tape.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Audible.
Oh, my books on tape audible,oh my gosh.
I just did.
Books on cassette, oh my gosh,this is awesome.
I'm hey, I'm old, I'm oldactually, yeah, we won't go
there, but uh, you know, and Imean, my audible library is
monstrous, by the way.
So, but Do I compare?
No, no.
And then I have anotherdaughter she reads and she just
(19:51):
wants the book.
And then I have anotherdaughter She'll do podcasts and
stuff.
She doesn't have to pay tons ofattention, but she wants it on
Kindle, she wants it digital.
So three different daughters,three different types of
consuming knowledge.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Do any of them do the book and the audio.
So I'm a big fan of doing both,because sometimes, even though
I'll read or I'll listen, mybrain will just go off.
But I can.
If I read they're not alwayslike in in in perfect sync, but
like it'll just help me getthrough it, or I can just get
(20:31):
things a little bit betterinteresting or like sometimes,
if I know like what's alreadysort of coming, I can like
comprehend it and take it inlike a little bit differently
and better.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, like, for me like, and I don't have any
particular way, but I buy a lotof things on both.
It drives my wife crazy.
Why don't you One?
So I try to buy cheap usedbooks all the time, unless I
want one that I really think isimportant.
But I'll listen to the samething.
(21:00):
But I don't do it side by side.
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It's not always, because I know on Audible and
Kindle you can have them sync,so where you stop listening
it'll pick up on the kindle andvice versa.
Like it could, they can, but Ijust like I was like listen to
it, then I'll also like justread it, but I don't keep them
in like perfect, like harmonyyeah, I like.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I like writing in books, me too.
My books have notes and tags.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I wasn't for a while, I think, because growing up in
school they're like you can'truin the book, you can't do X, y
and Z, and I have someexpensive magic books.
And now, over the past coupleof years I'm just like screw it.
Now I'm just doggier pages,just writing them, some of the
real expensive ones, like it'slike post-it notes, like I won't
(21:49):
like destroy, but like it'sjust engaging with the book,
like just yeah, just I don'tknow.
And then there is somethinglike to be said like I have
friends with libraries or likein mint condition, they're just
like read it like it's a book,it's just paper, just engage
with it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Um, so yeah do you give books to people?
Yeah, do you write in them?
I do like like go in the middleof the book I, I have, so, so,
uh, uh, I got my first.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
The uh sean blile sent me up two books for
christmas and like there waswhere his business card was, was
like a highlighted section.
Whatever he's like, I thinkyou'll like whatever it was.
And I was like, oh man, likethat was just powerful, like it
was like oh, oh, still gives methe chills.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
No, so, and I don't necessarily do this to be sneaky
, but, like with some of mycoaching clients, I put a ten
dollar bill in the book.
I give them and and and a note.
You know, hey, you know,starbucks on me, or well,
there's no jamba juice in themidwest, you know.
But, yeah, you know, you know,and if and if I know that they
(22:55):
like some somewhere, I'm like,you know, hey, fiddleheads on on
me, um, and then, becausesometimes we're doing some of
the coaching through, you know,excerpts in the book, I give
them a book that's meaningful,not not just a random book, and
then you know we're talking.
I can tell a little bit thatthey're, you know, giving me a
snow job because they haven't.
Yeah, you got to do thehomework, yeah, and I'm like, so
(23:20):
how'd you enjoy the coffee orthe jamba juice?
And then, and then they realize, and so they go home and yeah
you know, they're like oh that'sfunny.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
What are some of your favorite books to recommend?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
um, so I'm going to give a shameless plug.
Um three and jack.
Jackie carpenter wrote a greatbook called people first.
You know from a, you know ifyou're, if you're looking to
help your team, jackie Carpenterwrote a great book called
People First.
If you're looking to help yourteam, take care of people.
It's fabulous, darn it.
Why didn't I write this book?
Yes, yes, yes, we've neededthis for so long.
(23:59):
There's an interesting onecalled the One Thing, so that's
a good one Chewing Through.
So I've read UnreasonableHospitality several times and
listened to that several timesso, and I've become a coach and
(24:24):
a consultant with them.
But I highly recommend that ifyou're looking to elevate your
business and I don't care whatyour business is- it's a good,
it's just good.
You can take it intomanufacturing dog grooming.
Certainly it's hospitality.
Every business is hospitality.
(24:45):
No, they think well, and yes,it is exactly yeah, because in
the end I don't care about allthis technology.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
In the end it's going to come down to this, so but so
, yeah, one of my uh actually aguest I just had on had chadman,
he was downstairs um, we'rerecording live at cmaa show.
We uh he recommended the theart of possibility and it's uh,
it's like a conductor and and apsychologist when you listen to
(25:17):
it.
The interlude music is like hismusic.
My oldest daughter is listeningto it.
Yeah, it's really good.
It's really good uh, andsometimes you ever just you
don't like I don't fullyremember the book, but just
knowing what the title is justgives you like enough, like good
to great.
You just got to know, like,what the title is and you're
like all right, it's stillpretty good.
(25:38):
Uh, one of my favorites I giveit out a lot is uh, the.
It's called the third door.
It's by alex benignan and, uh,if you listen to it, it's a
great story.
The short story long is hehacked his way onto the Price is
Right and it just talks abouthow, in life and anything,
there's three ways to get intosomething.
(26:00):
So if there's like a nightclub,there's the front door that
everybody goes through.
There's the VIP door that youmight have to know some people
pay actually to goes through.
There's the VIP door that youknow you might have to know some
people who pay actually to getthrough.
But you know there's a third wayin which you might have to
crawl through the kitchen windowand then put on a chef's outfit
and pretend like you work thereand get through, but like you
can find your way in.
So it's just like there'salways a way in.
There's always like a thirddoor, so kind of like the art of
(26:22):
possibility.
It's just like there's always away.
But it's a great story and justhow he connected and just how
he just worked his way up to nowa best-selling author, it's
just a great story.
The Third Door it's one ofthose two.
It's easy to read.
Sometimes you read a businessbook or something you're like.
(26:42):
Cut it with the big words, weget it.
It's just a great, great story.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Brian Dodge wrote a book.
Book, I don't know if you knowwho brian dodge is sounds
familiar.
Um, he hates this.
If, if he ever caught thispodcast, I'd get yelled at, and
it's not like I know himpersonally really, but, um, he's
a motivational speaker, okay,and and it's common sense stuff.
But he wrote a book called thegood life rules and I'll send
(27:10):
you one.
I think I've got two copies.
I'll send you one when I getback to milwaukee.
Um, and then what else have Iread?
That's good, I don't know.
I've read like 12 books in thelast four weeks or five weeks,
so I that's what an averageperson reads.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
An average person reads one a week.
The average person reads likeone a year.
The average CEO or successfulleader reads like 52 or even
like 26 or something like whatit is.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
So I was slouching a little because I was doing some
certifications and a lot ofstudying and stuff.
So I was playing some catch upover Christmas.
But my oldest daughter, twoyears ago, three years ago, she
set a goal to read a hundredbooks in the year and she did
(28:02):
extra pleasure reading.
That wasn't and she's avoracious reader.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I'm a fast reader, as is she One of those people who
can finish Harry Potter in afull day?
How?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
in the world.
She did that actually in booktwo or three or something.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I started reading when I was younger.
I got the first one and I readit.
It took me a minute and then Istarted reading the second one.
When I started reading thesecond one, the third one was
coming out and I just saw howprogressively thicker they were
getting.
I was like I'm going to waitfor the movies.
Sometimes, when the too big,too many stories, my brain, I
(28:40):
don't read.
Well, when there's too manycharacters like I, too many
characters, I start, I can'talways focus.
So sometimes I like to evenlike, sometimes even like I know
people hate it but likewatching a movie or something
first and then I can read it,cause then I could, like, I
could, I can grasp andunderstand, like the ideas and
(29:01):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Have you, have you heard of Donald Miller?
There's a couple Donald Millers.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Building a story brand Yep.
Are you talking about adifferent?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
one, yep, no, actually that's the one.
Yeah, there's a book, blue LikeJazz, and he wrote it a long
time ago.
Blue Like Jazz, yep, and it'sreally his life story in some
senses.
It's really his life story insome senses.
But it's funny, the woman thatis in his book, actually we knew
(29:35):
what when we moved toCalifornia this is an old book,
sorry yeah, she was thegirlfriend in that book and she
had, you know, they they hadseparated, she'd married someone
else.
Their kids and our kids are thesame age.
They were doing theater in thetheater group that my wife
(29:56):
helped start out in Sacramentoand and I said to her, I
happened to mention to heractually, actually Cheryl did,
we had gone to the Orangeconference in atlanta.
It was for, like, children'sministries and they had donald
miller speaking there and, um, Imet him, I was in a couple of
his classes, um, and we weredoing we interact a little bit
(30:19):
afterwards and then I read hisbook blue like jazz, and cheryl
was was raving about how greatthis conference was, and Donald
Miller and she goes, what?
And I'm like, yeah, it's theguy who wrote Blue Like Jazz.
And she kind of was like I haveto tell you something?
It was me, well, and she hadn'tread the book, so she didn't,
(30:43):
you know, and there's nothingbad in it, but it's just like,
how small a world is it?
And then now, all these yearslater, I've kind of circled back
and I'm working with theirorganization a little bit.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
As we wrap up, what are the common I don't want to
say themes, but issues thatmaybe you've run across with
your coaching people and thecommon solution?
Is there one common thing thatyou've run into a lot, and then
what do you see as the relief tothat?
Okay, I don't know if I phrasedthat right.
(31:22):
I think you're picking up whatI'm putting down.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I have some non-club management clients I
guess I call them and some clubmanagement clients.
There's a common theme,regardless of this industry, and
if they're the person at thetop, they're lonely, they can't
(31:47):
be vulnerable like.
I can't let my board know, um,that I'm scared, hurt, stressed.
I can't let my staff know,because I gotta be the pillar, I
you know, um, and the like, thebusiness owner or the you know,
and if they don't own thebusiness but they're running the
business for someone else, like, like, they can't be vulnerable
(32:07):
you know, and they're lonely,like that's.
It's a lonely position.
And it's even worse is if youcan't be vulnerable with your
spouse or partner or whateverthat is, if you don't have
someone out there, and if you'rea good German Lutheran farm
stock, you stuff it all inside.
Oh, that was me, but you knowyou stuff it all inside.
(32:28):
Oh, that was me, but you know,you stuff it all inside.
And you know there's somethingyou know I'm not trying to get
on a soapbox on American culture, but until recently it hasn't
been cool to you know, shareyour emotions.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Even now, here at the conference, I feel like a big
theme is, you know, cerebralwellness.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
This is a much needed , welcome, drastic change.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I mean almost from main sessions to on stage, to
the breakouts, to even thelittle tiny little.
You know, that's where a coachcomes in.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And as a coach like I , have to build your trust.
You have to trust me to ever bevulnerable, and so it's been
good for me too.
I mean, you know, I have to bereal with them.
If I'm fake with you, knowsomeone, whether it's, you know,
a mentee, a business owner inconsulting or a coach if I'm
fake, they pick up on it.
(33:31):
Oh easy.
We were just having aconversation with a manager
downstairs about neuroscienceand not being aware.
For some people it comes easyThank goodness for me it's come
easy but other people it comeseasy Thank goodness for me it's
come easy but other people itdoesn't.
(33:51):
And you don't pick up on thosecues and some people are really
good at hiding.
And so I think, working throughproblems with people and
helping them know and I don'tnecessarily have all the answers
on it, but I can be a resourceand help you find the answer for
(34:11):
that particular thing um, youknow, help them.
A lot of this is identify theproblem.
Um, what do you want to doabout the problem?
Set goals, um, make a plan andwork the plan.
You know, it's kind of a five,six-step piece and then
(34:31):
celebrate when you're done,actually celebrate every one of
those goals.
When you accomplish them,celebrate every one of those
milestones.
I mean, have you ever done?
Do you know what orienteeringis?
No, so it's lost art because ofMapQuest and Google Maps and
all those things, but it'staking a map and a compass and
(34:56):
going from point A to point Bwithout getting lost.
So, and there's lots of ways,like you know, I'm going to
circle all the way back to BoyScouts.
You know we did a lot of hiking,yeah, and we're hiking through
the black hills and we had likefour routes that we could take
to get there.
It doesn't no route was right.
(35:16):
Each one had a pitfall that wassomewhat major.
You know we're carrying 50pound packs and sometimes canoes
and stuff like that and likesome routes you shouldn't take,
like especially if you hadyounger kids who didn't have as
much strength.
Um, and other routes.
You know you're climbing or,however you go, make a plan to
(35:40):
get there.
If you have to make a detour,fine, make it purposefully, not
just willy-nilly.
You know, and if you have thatplan, you know that map, that
compass to guide you through.
I try to give imagery to peopleon how to use you know how to
use that and if you knowsomebody's into something else.
(36:02):
You know that's relatable.
I try to use that as opposed toyou know orienteering.
People are like what the hellis that?
You know that doesn't makesense, but orienteering.
But so when you were little,what did you aspire to be?
Do you want to be a footballplayer or basketball player?
Yeah, okay.
(36:23):
So did you make a plan?
No, okay, I think you didWithout knowing you did.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
No, I mean.
So I worked for my familybusiness and they were the ones
that because to me I didn't knowfrom my family business, and
they were the ones that becauseto me I I didn't know it was, so
I wasn't around the rightpeople or the magicians I saw
weren't quote-unquote successful.
But once I was like, oh,there's people who do make a
(36:52):
good living at it and they don'tdo kid shows.
There's, like others, there'sother avenues with it.
Once I saw that, even even evenwith that, I was still like,
wasn't sure it was my familypushed me.
I was working for the familybusiness, like, listen, we know
you love the entertainment.
We don't want you to be 30, 40,50.
Go and try it.
You can always come back here.
We just don't want you to belike what if I would have tried?
So then I, you know, once Ipushed off the ledge, jumped
(37:18):
without the parachute and aftera year of putting up a website,
going, oh, people booked me andrealized you have to put work in
.
So like there was.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I guess once it was in place, but, like earlier on,
it wasn't.
I'm going to ask a couplequestions.
So how did I have a suspicionI'm going to make a guess first
that you watched as manymagicians as you could always?
Yeah, okay, so, and you knewwhen somebody was going to be on
or how to get some, so you madesome plans to watch that like
(37:49):
the world's greatest magic, bestshow.
Yeah, okay.
How did you learn the sleightof hand stuff?
Like you bought books or youbought resources?
Um, I don't know a lot about it, but there's kits that I know
that you can buy.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
It's like once you get past the kits, there's magic
shop.
There's books on everythingwith magic, so there's books.
Now there used to be videos,now it's streaming.
There's people who you can justlearn, so just like a similar
coach, whatever.
There's other magicians thatyou can learn that they teach
there.
There's other magicians thatare phenomenal sleight of hands
(38:24):
and great with routines, butthey suck as performers, so like
they make routines.
There's magic consultants.
They help with like your stuff,with your shtick and all that
jazz.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So how much?
I'm interviewing you now.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
in some senses I know I might have to edit this down.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Or use more of it somewhere else, but like.
So you knew always that youwanted to be a magician, I think
so, Okay, or so it wasentertainment of probably some
sort.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
It's like I'm a very outgoing person.
So just that you know, I usedto work in retail, retail stuff
when I was just in high schooltoo, and so just that you know,
I used to work in retail stuffwhen I was just in high school
too, Even though I worked for mydad but always had little weird
jobs and stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Like I think you just one, you love performing.
I would say you're a performerfirst.
You're an entertainer.
Yeah, entertainer, you know.
And magic is the way you.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It's just a tool.
It's just how I can stay onstage without being boring.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I don't know that you'd ever be boring.
So we met in 2018, maybe Ithink it was 17 or 18.
You were up in Milwaukee, yep,and you brought me up because I
had a $100 bill my favoritetrick and I'm like, oh crap, I'm
losing a hundred dollar bill,my favorite trick.
And I'm like, oh crap, I'mlosing a hundred dollar bill.
And you had me write my name inthis wide old red sharpie,
(39:44):
kevin, and I watched you do thetrick and and I like figuring
stuff out, yeah, and I had kindof figured it out, I just BS.
No, I can tell you, I can telloff camera, off camera, but I
camera.
But I still, even though Ithought I still was like, oh my
gosh, this is so amazing, but Ijust got rid of that $100 bill.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Really.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yes, not on purpose.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It only happened recently Twice in less than two
months.
Everyone always like two peoplewere like can I trade you, I
don't want?
They were like afraid.
Two people were like can Itrade you, I don't want?
They were like afraid it wasn'tlike usable.
So I actually have one in mybag, that's.
So I had to trade I think itwas at St Pete Yacht Club Like
someone's written $100.
(40:30):
It's red.
I know I still use a red marker.
Well, because red is easy.
It's easy to see, right.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
So when you're on skates, and I didn't get rid of
it on purpose, like one of thekids was running to get some
stuff and I'm like, oh, I'm like, did that have the?
I was keeping that in, butanyway, that was fun yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I forget where we were going with that I don't
know.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
It kind of went rabbit trail.
I know, but I mean, in somesenses, you've created a path
for your life and you have goalson where you want to go, and so
that's a lot of what a coachwill help someone do.
Yeah, you know, and I mean,there's some people in life who
don't know what they want to bewhen they grow up and they've
been doing whatever they'redoing for 20 years or 30 years.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And so it's who you surround yourself with.
It's what the other people aretelling you, whether they're
affirming or reinforcing thebeliefs or limited beliefs or
whatever BS you have going on inyour head.
You are some of the top fivepeople that you surround
yourself with yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So I have a kind of a closing story.
So I have a daughter and whenwe moved to Wisconsin we were
looking at some houses and theyhad an open house thing and Fred
Astaire Dance Studio was givingaway coupons for a free lesson
(41:56):
and she had been in dance andtheater all her life.
She's a fabulous dancer.
And so she went and pretty soon, you know, and being in dance
is like ballroom dancing isexpensive and they're on her to
go pro and for the last four orfive years, like cal, you should
be a pro dancer.
And she came to the realizationI love this.
(42:19):
I don't want to do itprofessionally because then it
won't become fun, you know, andI'm like that's so powerful and
to realize that a young age yeah, yeah, so yeah, anyways, you
know that's a piece she.
You know she figured that outabout herself and I mean, you
(42:40):
know his parents are.
We were in, we were encouragingher to do that, not trying to
push, but that's like you havean employee.
You see potential for them thatthey don't see in themselves.
Go back to high school Kineticenergy, potential energy.
Potential energy is just a rocksitting there.
A piece of uranium isn't doinganything if it's just sitting
(43:01):
there molded into something else.
And so many people don't knowwhat they want in life, so they
just do what they think theyhave to do or what somebody else
thinks they have to do.
So you know, midlife crisis aremanifestations of being unhappy
(43:21):
with who you are, and somepeople go and reinvent
themselves and some people buy.
If they're old white men, theybuy a Corvette, or you know.
Oh my gosh, you know.
So, yeah, do you know that theynow have quarter-life crisis?
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I think I had one, yeah, so, anyways, thanks for
coming on, bud Sure.
Hope you all enjoyed thatepisode.
I know I did, kevin, thank youso much for coming on.
Means the world If you'reenjoying the content.
A like, share, subscribe Costsnothing and does so much for the
channel.
(43:59):
That's this episode.
Until next time.
I'm your host, danny Corby.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode I sit down withmy friend, kevin Ellert, all
the way from Wisconsin, fromWisconsin.
And what a great guy, what agreat person, a good human.
I've known Kevin can't tell youhow many years now five, six,
seven, pre-pandemic, for sure.
(00:41):
We met at a CMAA event theWisconsin Badger many, many
years ago and we got to chattingat CMAA and got to recording
and it almost turned into acoaching session for me.
It felt like, because then hestarted interviewing me and at
one point I was like wait,what's going on here?
But just a great person, a goodhuman, starting off as a
dishwasher to GM to nowconsultant and certified coach,
(01:06):
and he brings a real refreshingperspective to the club space.
We recorded this episode at theCMA conference back in Tampa
and we talk about whatleadership really looks like
when you strip away the title,the pressure and that always on
mentality that I think so manyGMs think that they have to have
.
We talk about the differencebetween mentoring, coaching and
(01:28):
just giving advice, why there'sa bunch of managers who feel
alone at the top and what we cando about that.
And one of my favorite thingsis why curiosity might be the
most important leadership traitof all.
I'm super stoked to bring thisepisode for you all.
We had a great conversation.
Before we get to that, a quickthanks to some of our show
(01:50):
partners Kenneth's Member,vetting Club, capital Group
Members, first Golf LifeNavigators and Concert Golf
Partners, as well as myself.
The Denny Corby Experiencethere's excitement, there's
mystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading, comedy and crowd work.
One of the most fun,interactive, engaging
experiences and shows you canbring to your members.
(02:11):
Want to learn more?
Head on over to dennycorbycom.
But enough about that, let'sget to the episode Private Club
(02:35):
Radio.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Let's welcome to the show.
Kevin Eller.
Kevin Ehlert Came over rightafter World War I and were
embarrassed about what washappening in Germany.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So I wish they had just changed.
You know American.
They refused to speak German.
My grandfather was born hereand never learned German.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
There's a lot of families that are like that.
There's some that will own andkeep their traditions.
Others are like we are going tomodernize and not learned
German.
There's a lot of families thatare like that.
There's some that will own andkeep their traditions, and
others are like we are going tomodernize and not adjust at all.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And so Wells, minnesota, was German-Polish,
and then I grew up in Bryson.
We were out in the farm country, so just how the lines were
drawn.
So I went to Bryson, which isNorwegian, but during World War
II there was a POW camp in Wells, just outside of town, and
German POWs came over and werethere and there was one guard at
(03:36):
the gate and people they eitherworked at.
So there was a Blue Bunnyfactory, there was a Del Monte
canning factory in town and theyhad all the farmers.
So there's a Blue Bunny factory, there was a Del Monte canning
factory in town and they had allthe farmers and they actually
came over to family and so theyhad to spend.
I think, if I remember they hadto spend Friday night at the
(04:01):
POW camp, otherwise Saturdaythrough and maybe it was
Saturday it was either Fridaynight night or saturday night.
Wow, so like life in a pew wcamp here was very different
than in germany and what?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
what year was that then?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
in 1940s and they made.
They had a hemp factory.
They made rope for initiallythe factory made rope hemp for
shipping and stuff and then itwas all for the war yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And then were you the first person in your family to
get in the clubs.
How did you find your way?
Was it school after school,during school?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I fell into it.
So I put my son like 15 yearsold, dad's, like you should have
a job in the wintertime.
I grew up on a farm so weworked, you know, spring through
fall, but like get some pocketmoney.
So I washed dishes at theLegion, no, at the pub.
So there's Bryson's, this tinytown, there's two bars in town,
(05:05):
and then the funny thing is aawas right behind it on the same,
you know, same front mainstreet pub, legion, aa on the
backside.
But so I'm 15, I'm washingdishes and about 10, 30 at night
somebody out of the bar isyelling, hey, can you come and
help?
And the bartender had passedout.
(05:26):
And so I, from 10, 30 till oneat night, all I really did was
open beer and pour straight.
With 15, statute of limitationsis gone.
I'm sure I'm fine at this point, yeah.
So in a sense, actually,truthfully, I got into this
business through Boy Scouts.
(05:48):
You know, you go to summer camp, yeah, you cook for four or
five, six hundred people or youcook for your small group, stuff
like that.
So I got into the hospitalityside that way.
And then in college I worked inbars, restaurants, clubs.
And then in college I worked inbars, restaurants, clubs, you
know, go serve banquet serverfor a club when they need help
(06:09):
and stuff like that.
So that's how I kind of fell inand I went to school for
physics and engineering.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And then music and dance for minors.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, I guess if you're going to properly jump,
you should know the propertrajectory to jump off the foot
and land properly.
So the college piece.
I thought I wanted to be anarchitect, be an engineer.
I was the first one in ourfamily to go to college Really
(06:54):
so and I realized, as I was kindof finishing up, that there's
no way I'm going to be adraftsman and an architect and
sit in some office and draw.
I'm an extrovert.
I'm not a functioning extrovert.
I'm not, you know.
I'm like I need this and I needto help people.
Where was your first managementgig?
It was at a little semi-privatenine-hole golf course west side
(07:14):
of the Twin Cities calledRiver's Edge.
They had a big banquetoperation.
They had a big restaurant and acute little nine-hole golf
course.
There's a river that ranthrough it Darn thing flooded
every spring, you know, becauseyou know rain runoff in
Minnesota was bad.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Were you always in?
No, because you were inColorado for a bit right.
No, no, you were always inMinnesota.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Minnesota, wisconsin, and then I did spend seven
years in California.
That's what I was thinkingCalifornia, so not in Folsom
Prison, but what was thedifference between?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Because it had to be a slight change of pace from
Minnesota to California.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I went from one city club to another.
So I mean, and I actually went,so I managed a woman's club,
the woman's club in Minneapolis,and then I went to the Sutter
Club club, which had been amen's only club, um, and then so
the state broke them and inthey said they, california can't
(08:16):
describe, yeah, you know.
And they, they hated the setterclub.
It was right across from thecapitol, very republican or very
conservative club, and so thestate said, fine, you can, um,
you can discriminate by by sexif you want.
And then they wrote a law thatsaid no organizations that
(08:38):
discriminate may have a liquorlicense.
And so then the club put to avote and it passed like 98%.
They had like 10 votes, no, sotheir liquor license was more
important than some stupidprinciple of not letting women
in, where the women's club letmen in in the 70s and actually I
(09:06):
kind of went back and I readthrough their history they never
prohibited men from joining,but in the 70s, you know,
somebody passed away and thehusband was like hey, can I keep
the membership?
You know our family's growingup here and they're like sure,
we don't care.
But yeah, it was a littledifferent, um, although
(09:29):
sacramento itself is a in a lotof senses, like the midwest.
Uh, it's why, uh, the kings gotall the crap about being a cow
town, you know when, rememberwhen, nba, all that.
But no, it was a littledifferent because Sacramento
(09:52):
itself was a government town,like there was not Minneapolis,
st Paul, twin Cities was so muchmore diverse, like you had
Medtronic, boston Scientific, 3m, honeywell, like, I think, the
biggest congregation of Fortune500 companies and maybe still
(10:12):
and so a very intellectuallydiverse, yeah, and not as much
banking as you do find out, likein Des Moines or stuff like
that.
So it actually was a little.
It wasn't nearly as diverse insome senses, and the pace of
(10:33):
life in Sacramento was actuallypretty slow.
Really, it's a government town,nothing happens, and I don't
mean to be disrespectful or mean, you know, and it was weird
Back then.
So it was 2008,.
Sacramento's marketing was we're90 minutes from San Francisco,
(10:54):
we're 90 minutes from Lake Tahoeand we're 90 minutes from Napa
Valley.
And I remember getting workingwith a chamber group in the city
.
I'm like, why are you puttingyour marketing on three other
places?
You're the sixth largesteconomy in the world.
It's here.
Sure, it all happens elsewhere.
(11:17):
It's here.
Who cares about San Franciscoor Napa or Tahoe?
Own it Exactly, they didn't ownit.
Own it and exactly they didn'town it.
So the town was slow, like wewere a city club.
We closed at 5 o'clock.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
We weren't open for dinner, because no one came.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
No one came.
You know, they went out to thesuburbs, went out to the country
clubs at night.
Lunch was booming, Yep,breakfast or no, we did
breakfast.
They shot themselves in thefoot because where they served
breakfast they required coat andtie.
And here was the crazy thing.
So we're in California, whichis already laid back, yeah, and
(11:59):
in town the lawyers didn't evenwear a suit, except they had
suits in their closets at workif they had to go to court.
And on Fridays we were so slow,even at lunch, because we
didn't allow jeans, andeverybody, and I mean everybody
in Sacramento, wore jeans onFriday.
So, but they still wanted to becoat and tie, yeah, in that
(12:24):
room, but yet they wouldn't comeand use it.
So, anyways.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So how many city clubs were you at?
Just those two.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Those two, and then I did work in San Francisco.
I did a year, a little over ayear, doing consulting at a
woman's club in San Francisco aswell.
So three big city clubs in mycareer.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
And then what made you pivot, from management to
the consulting and things thatyou're doing now consulting and
coaching.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think finding you know one, finding a way to give
back.
I've always been a coach.
How so?
Even back in high school,people asked for help.
I'd see someone who needed helpwith something and I'm not
talking about they need helpwith math or stuff like that,
but life stuff and so I thinkpart of it.
(13:16):
I'll go back to Boy Scouts,because there, in some senses,
they teach you how to mentor.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
What's the difference between a mentor and a coach?
Is there?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Mentors usually don't get paid Coaches.
Do you know, a coach issomewhat transactional, it
doesn't mean you don't care forclients and things like that.
But with a mentor you'rebuilding a relationship and
usually it's someone older andsomeone younger, but you know
(13:56):
the the mentee is meant to havea built, have built trust and
have a safe space.
I guess that's the popular wordterm now.
But you know, hey, I don't knowhow to do this, or I'm scared
of this, or you know.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So is it more like tough love versus like.
So is it more like mentoring isa little bit more hand-holding,
whereas coaching is a littlebit more like, okay, shut up and
just do it.
Like a little bit more I wantto say no, shut up and do it is
consulting, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So I got Shut up and do it is consulting, okay.
Okay.
So I got certified as a coachthis year, like I've done this
forever, I've never beencertified.
And so I took this sabbatical.
My wife was like you should getcertified, you should.
You know, you've been doingthis forever.
(14:41):
And I found out I was doingabout 30% of it wrong.
You know, that's a big changeforever.
And I found out I was doingabout 30% of it wrong.
You know, and that's a big Sure.
And so here's the deal as aconsultant, you tell your client
or the company this is what'swrong, here's how you fix it.
As a coach, you ask questionsand truthfully, and then I'll
(15:02):
talk.
The mentee piece I'll talkabout as well.
So, as a coach, you ask somequestions, leading questions,
you listen and then you wantthem to have the aha moment or
the light bulb go off.
You know, sometimes be visit,but it.
And every once, while it opens,you know, the Sun comes out and
yeah, and the angels say, butyou.
(15:23):
And so what I was doing wrongis I was conflating coaching and
consulting a little bit.
I was too eager to tell youwhat was wrong.
You know, and sometimes youhave to the client has to
struggle through.
You know, really has tostruggle through.
Yeah, and I mean, all of ushave blocks.
I have blocks even to this day,and you want to help them work
(15:45):
through that block and it's bestfor them if they do it and
they're guided through, asopposed to you telling them
they're blocked.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Is that sort of like.
The difference too between likea, I guess, like a more
experienced coach is like whenyou're first you get it, you're
more eager and you want to justlike see them get the results
and like that's it.
But it's like as you kind ofgrow a little bit, you're like
oh no, this has to be right, anda coach is not a therapist,
like it's.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Like it's, it's very easy to get sucked in, um, and
so I mean, I have a couple oftherapists for people, um, like,
I always encourage them, hey,do you have someone that you
know if you're a spiritualperson, you know.
Do you have someone at your youknow if it's a church or
whatever that is?
You know.
But some of these things aretherapy, they're not coaching,
(16:34):
you know.
You know sometimes you'redealing with mental illness or
you know.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So the difference between coach, mentor and
consultant.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
So the mentor piece, I think it's both consulting and
coaching.
But I have a couple of peoplethat we have been.
They started off as a mentor,as a mentee, 10, 15 years ago 15
(17:04):
years ago the one I'm thinkingof specifically and we still
connect.
So here's the thing, I think,with a mentee the question what
do you want to be when you growup?
Magician, okay.
But now what does that mean?
Let's dig into that a littlebit.
(17:26):
What does that mean?
What do you want to be fiveyears from now?
Do you still want to be amagician?
If the answer is no, you wantto be something else.
Or do you want to have, fiveyears from now, I want to be on
Penn Teller, I want to befeatured, those types of things.
(17:48):
Five years from now, I want tohave kids, or I want to open up
a magic school, all those typesof things, and so having that
relationship, you're asked thatquestion all the time.
My youngest daughter came homefrom christmas and we've had our
(18:09):
first serious conversation.
She's like dad, what do youwant to be when you grow up?
She asked you, she asked me.
We still, we still do so.
I have some.
I grew up on a farm and mygrandmother said some very
inspiring things to me.
One God gave you two ears andone mouth.
Use them accordingly.
Two if you're not learning,you're dying, and unfortunately
(18:35):
she lost her eyesight later inlife and so she couldn't read
anymore, and that just was sohard for her.
But she's like you need tolearn and learn from books,
learn from people, and so I'vehad this thirst for knowledge.
You know it's something thatwas instilled in us as just and
(18:57):
it wasn't you have to do this.
It just, it was natural.
It was what our family did.
It was natural, it was what ourfamily did.
So I try to, as a mentor and asa coach, I try to instill that
in people.
Some people hate reading books.
I have one daughter.
It's hard sometimes, yeah, soshe listens to podcasts, she
(19:20):
listens to books on tape Yep Nowyou're dating yourself.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Books on tape.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Audible.
Oh, my books on tape audible,oh my gosh.
I just did.
Books on cassette, oh my gosh,this is awesome.
I'm hey, I'm old, I'm oldactually, yeah, we won't go
there, but uh, you know, and Imean, my audible library is
monstrous, by the way.
So, but Do I compare?
No, no.
And then I have anotherdaughter she reads and she just
(19:51):
wants the book.
And then I have anotherdaughter She'll do podcasts and
stuff.
She doesn't have to pay tons ofattention, but she wants it on
Kindle, she wants it digital.
So three different daughters,three different types of
consuming knowledge.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Do any of them do the book and the audio.
So I'm a big fan of doing both,because sometimes, even though
I'll read or I'll listen, mybrain will just go off.
But I can.
If I read they're not alwayslike in in in perfect sync, but
like it'll just help me getthrough it, or I can just get
(20:31):
things a little bit betterinteresting or like sometimes,
if I know like what's alreadysort of coming, I can like
comprehend it and take it inlike a little bit differently
and better.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, like, for me like, and I don't have any
particular way, but I buy a lotof things on both.
It drives my wife crazy.
Why don't you One?
So I try to buy cheap usedbooks all the time, unless I
want one that I really think isimportant.
But I'll listen to the samething.
(21:00):
But I don't do it side by side.
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
It's not always, because I know on Audible and
Kindle you can have them sync,so where you stop listening
it'll pick up on the kindle andvice versa.
Like it could, they can, but Ijust like I was like listen to
it, then I'll also like justread it, but I don't keep them
in like perfect, like harmonyyeah, I like.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I like writing in books, me too.
My books have notes and tags.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I wasn't for a while, I think, because growing up in
school they're like you can'truin the book, you can't do X, y
and Z, and I have someexpensive magic books.
And now, over the past coupleof years I'm just like screw it.
Now I'm just doggier pages,just writing them, some of the
real expensive ones, like it'slike post-it notes, like I won't
(21:49):
like destroy, but like it'sjust engaging with the book,
like just yeah, just I don'tknow.
And then there is somethinglike to be said like I have
friends with libraries or likein mint condition, they're just
like read it like it's a book,it's just paper, just engage
with it.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Um, so yeah do you give books to people?
Yeah, do you write in them?
I do like like go in the middleof the book I, I have, so, so,
uh, uh, I got my first.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
The uh sean blile sent me up two books for
christmas and like there waswhere his business card was, was
like a highlighted section.
Whatever he's like, I thinkyou'll like whatever it was.
And I was like, oh man, likethat was just powerful, like it
was like oh, oh, still gives methe chills.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
No, so, and I don't necessarily do this to be sneaky
, but, like with some of mycoaching clients, I put a ten
dollar bill in the book.
I give them and and and a note.
You know, hey, you know,starbucks on me, or well,
there's no jamba juice in themidwest, you know.
But, yeah, you know, you know,and if and if I know that they
(22:55):
like some somewhere, I'm like,you know, hey, fiddleheads on on
me, um, and then, becausesometimes we're doing some of
the coaching through, you know,excerpts in the book, I give
them a book that's meaningful,not not just a random book, and
then you know we're talking.
I can tell a little bit thatthey're, you know, giving me a
snow job because they haven't.
Yeah, you got to do thehomework, yeah, and I'm like, so
(23:20):
how'd you enjoy the coffee orthe jamba juice?
And then, and then they realize, and so they go home and yeah
you know, they're like oh that'sfunny.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
What are some of your favorite books to recommend?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
um, so I'm going to give a shameless plug.
Um three and jack.
Jackie carpenter wrote a greatbook called people first.
You know from a, you know ifyou're, if you're looking to
help your team, jackie Carpenterwrote a great book called
People First.
If you're looking to help yourteam, take care of people.
It's fabulous, darn it.
Why didn't I write this book?
Yes, yes, yes, we've neededthis for so long.
(23:59):
There's an interesting onecalled the One Thing, so that's
a good one Chewing Through.
So I've read UnreasonableHospitality several times and
listened to that several timesso, and I've become a coach and
(24:24):
a consultant with them.
But I highly recommend that ifyou're looking to elevate your
business and I don't care whatyour business is- it's a good,
it's just good.
You can take it intomanufacturing dog grooming.
Certainly it's hospitality.
Every business is hospitality.
(24:45):
No, they think well, and yes,it is exactly yeah, because in
the end I don't care about allthis technology.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
In the end it's going to come down to this, so but so
, yeah, one of my uh actually aguest I just had on had chadman,
he was downstairs um, we'rerecording live at cmaa show.
We uh he recommended the theart of possibility and it's uh,
it's like a conductor and and apsychologist when you listen to
(25:17):
it.
The interlude music is like hismusic.
My oldest daughter is listeningto it.
Yeah, it's really good.
It's really good uh, andsometimes you ever just you
don't like I don't fullyremember the book, but just
knowing what the title is justgives you like enough, like good
to great.
You just got to know, like,what the title is and you're
like all right, it's stillpretty good.
(25:38):
Uh, one of my favorites I giveit out a lot is uh, the.
It's called the third door.
It's by alex benignan and, uh,if you listen to it, it's a
great story.
The short story long is hehacked his way onto the Price is
Right and it just talks abouthow, in life and anything,
there's three ways to get intosomething.
(26:00):
So if there's like a nightclub,there's the front door that
everybody goes through.
There's the VIP door that youmight have to know some people
pay actually to goes through.
There's the VIP door that youknow you might have to know some
people who pay actually to getthrough.
But you know there's a third wayin which you might have to
crawl through the kitchen windowand then put on a chef's outfit
and pretend like you work thereand get through, but like you
can find your way in.
So it's just like there'salways a way in.
There's always like a thirddoor, so kind of like the art of
(26:22):
possibility.
It's just like there's always away.
But it's a great story and justhow he connected and just how
he just worked his way up to nowa best-selling author, it's
just a great story.
The Third Door it's one ofthose two.
It's easy to read.
Sometimes you read a businessbook or something you're like.
(26:42):
Cut it with the big words, weget it.
It's just a great, great story.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Brian Dodge wrote a book.
Book, I don't know if you knowwho brian dodge is sounds
familiar.
Um, he hates this.
If, if he ever caught thispodcast, I'd get yelled at, and
it's not like I know himpersonally really, but, um, he's
a motivational speaker, okay,and and it's common sense stuff.
But he wrote a book called thegood life rules and I'll send
(27:10):
you one.
I think I've got two copies.
I'll send you one when I getback to milwaukee.
Um, and then what else have Iread?
That's good, I don't know.
I've read like 12 books in thelast four weeks or five weeks,
so I that's what an averageperson reads.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
An average person reads one a week.
The average person reads likeone a year.
The average CEO or successfulleader reads like 52 or even
like 26 or something like whatit is.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
So I was slouching a little because I was doing some
certifications and a lot ofstudying and stuff.
So I was playing some catch upover Christmas.
But my oldest daughter, twoyears ago, three years ago, she
set a goal to read a hundredbooks in the year and she did
(28:02):
extra pleasure reading.
That wasn't and she's avoracious reader.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I'm a fast reader, as is she One of those people who
can finish Harry Potter in afull day?
How?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
in the world.
She did that actually in booktwo or three or something.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I started reading when I was younger.
I got the first one and I readit.
It took me a minute and then Istarted reading the second one.
When I started reading thesecond one, the third one was
coming out and I just saw howprogressively thicker they were
getting.
I was like I'm going to waitfor the movies.
Sometimes, when the too big,too many stories, my brain, I
(28:40):
don't read.
Well, when there's too manycharacters like I, too many
characters, I start, I can'talways focus.
So sometimes I like to evenlike, sometimes even like I know
people hate it but likewatching a movie or something
first and then I can read it,cause then I could, like, I
could, I can grasp andunderstand, like the ideas and
(29:01):
stuff.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Have you, have you heard of Donald Miller?
There's a couple Donald Millers.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Building a story brand Yep.
Are you talking about adifferent?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
one, yep, no, actually that's the one.
Yeah, there's a book, blue LikeJazz, and he wrote it a long
time ago.
Blue Like Jazz, yep, and it'sreally his life story in some
senses.
It's really his life story insome senses.
But it's funny, the woman thatis in his book, actually we knew
(29:35):
what when we moved toCalifornia this is an old book,
sorry yeah, she was thegirlfriend in that book and she
had, you know, they they hadseparated, she'd married someone
else.
Their kids and our kids are thesame age.
They were doing theater in thetheater group that my wife
(29:56):
helped start out in Sacramentoand and I said to her, I
happened to mention to heractually, actually Cheryl did,
we had gone to the Orangeconference in atlanta.
It was for, like, children'sministries and they had donald
miller speaking there and, um, Imet him, I was in a couple of
his classes, um, and we weredoing we interact a little bit
(30:19):
afterwards and then I read hisbook blue like jazz, and cheryl
was was raving about how greatthis conference was, and Donald
Miller and she goes, what?
And I'm like, yeah, it's theguy who wrote Blue Like Jazz.
And she kind of was like I haveto tell you something?
It was me, well, and she hadn'tread the book, so she didn't,
(30:43):
you know, and there's nothingbad in it, but it's just like,
how small a world is it?
And then now, all these yearslater, I've kind of circled back
and I'm working with theirorganization a little bit.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
As we wrap up, what are the common I don't want to
say themes, but issues thatmaybe you've run across with
your coaching people and thecommon solution?
Is there one common thing thatyou've run into a lot, and then
what do you see as the relief tothat?
Okay, I don't know if I phrasedthat right.
(31:22):
I think you're picking up whatI'm putting down.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So I have some non-club management clients I
guess I call them and some clubmanagement clients.
There's a common theme,regardless of this industry, and
if they're the person at thetop, they're lonely, they can't
(31:47):
be vulnerable like.
I can't let my board know, um,that I'm scared, hurt, stressed.
I can't let my staff know,because I gotta be the pillar, I
you know, um, and the like, thebusiness owner or the you know,
and if they don't own thebusiness but they're running the
business for someone else, like, like, they can't be vulnerable
(32:07):
you know, and they're lonely,like that's.
It's a lonely position.
And it's even worse is if youcan't be vulnerable with your
spouse or partner or whateverthat is, if you don't have
someone out there, and if you'rea good German Lutheran farm
stock, you stuff it all inside.
Oh, that was me, but you knowyou stuff it all inside.
(32:28):
Oh, that was me, but you know,you stuff it all inside.
And you know there's somethingyou know I'm not trying to get
on a soapbox on American culture, but until recently it hasn't
been cool to you know, shareyour emotions.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Even now, here at the conference, I feel like a big
theme is, you know, cerebralwellness.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
This is a much needed , welcome, drastic change.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I mean almost from main sessions to on stage, to
the breakouts, to even thelittle tiny little.
You know, that's where a coachcomes in.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
And as a coach like I , have to build your trust.
You have to trust me to ever bevulnerable, and so it's been
good for me too.
I mean, you know, I have to bereal with them.
If I'm fake with you, knowsomeone, whether it's, you know,
a mentee, a business owner inconsulting or a coach if I'm
fake, they pick up on it.
(33:31):
Oh easy.
We were just having aconversation with a manager
downstairs about neuroscienceand not being aware.
For some people it comes easyThank goodness for me it's come
easy but other people it comeseasy Thank goodness for me it's
come easy but other people itdoesn't.
(33:51):
And you don't pick up on thosecues and some people are really
good at hiding.
And so I think, working throughproblems with people and
helping them know and I don'tnecessarily have all the answers
on it, but I can be a resourceand help you find the answer for
(34:11):
that particular thing um, youknow, help them.
A lot of this is identify theproblem.
Um, what do you want to doabout the problem?
Set goals, um, make a plan andwork the plan.
You know, it's kind of a five,six-step piece and then
(34:31):
celebrate when you're done,actually celebrate every one of
those goals.
When you accomplish them,celebrate every one of those
milestones.
I mean, have you ever done?
Do you know what orienteeringis?
No, so it's lost art because ofMapQuest and Google Maps and
all those things, but it'staking a map and a compass and
(34:56):
going from point A to point Bwithout getting lost.
So, and there's lots of ways,like you know, I'm going to
circle all the way back to BoyScouts.
You know we did a lot of hiking,yeah, and we're hiking through
the black hills and we had likefour routes that we could take
to get there.
It doesn't no route was right.
(35:16):
Each one had a pitfall that wassomewhat major.
You know we're carrying 50pound packs and sometimes canoes
and stuff like that and likesome routes you shouldn't take,
like especially if you hadyounger kids who didn't have as
much strength.
Um, and other routes.
You know you're climbing or,however you go, make a plan to
(35:40):
get there.
If you have to make a detour,fine, make it purposefully, not
just willy-nilly.
You know, and if you have thatplan, you know that map, that
compass to guide you through.
I try to give imagery to peopleon how to use you know how to
use that and if you knowsomebody's into something else.
(36:02):
You know that's relatable.
I try to use that as opposed toyou know orienteering.
People are like what the hellis that?
You know that doesn't makesense, but orienteering.
But so when you were little,what did you aspire to be?
Do you want to be a footballplayer or basketball player?
Yeah, okay.
(36:23):
So did you make a plan?
No, okay, I think you didWithout knowing you did.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
No, I mean.
So I worked for my familybusiness and they were the ones
that because to me I didn't knowfrom my family business, and
they were the ones that becauseto me I I didn't know it was, so
I wasn't around the rightpeople or the magicians I saw
weren't quote-unquote successful.
But once I was like, oh,there's people who do make a
(36:52):
good living at it and they don'tdo kid shows.
There's, like others, there'sother avenues with it.
Once I saw that, even even evenwith that, I was still like,
wasn't sure it was my familypushed me.
I was working for the familybusiness, like, listen, we know
you love the entertainment.
We don't want you to be 30, 40,50.
Go and try it.
You can always come back here.
We just don't want you to belike what if I would have tried?
So then I, you know, once Ipushed off the ledge, jumped
(37:18):
without the parachute and aftera year of putting up a website,
going, oh, people booked me andrealized you have to put work in
.
So like there was.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I guess once it was in place, but, like earlier on,
it wasn't.
I'm going to ask a couplequestions.
So how did I have a suspicionI'm going to make a guess first
that you watched as manymagicians as you could always?
Yeah, okay, so, and you knewwhen somebody was going to be on
or how to get some, so you madesome plans to watch that like
(37:49):
the world's greatest magic, bestshow.
Yeah, okay.
How did you learn the sleightof hand stuff?
Like you bought books or youbought resources?
Um, I don't know a lot about it, but there's kits that I know
that you can buy.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
It's like once you get past the kits, there's magic
shop.
There's books on everythingwith magic, so there's books.
Now there used to be videos,now it's streaming.
There's people who you can justlearn, so just like a similar
coach, whatever.
There's other magicians thatyou can learn that they teach
there.
There's other magicians thatare phenomenal sleight of hands
(38:24):
and great with routines, butthey suck as performers, so like
they make routines.
There's magic consultants.
They help with like your stuff,with your shtick and all that
jazz.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So how much?
I'm interviewing you now.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
in some senses I know I might have to edit this down.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Or use more of it somewhere else, but like.
So you knew always that youwanted to be a magician, I think
so, Okay, or so it wasentertainment of probably some
sort.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
It's like I'm a very outgoing person.
So just that you know, I usedto work in retail, retail stuff
when I was just in high schooltoo, and so just that you know,
I used to work in retail stuffwhen I was just in high school
too, Even though I worked for mydad but always had little weird
jobs and stuff.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Like I think you just one, you love performing.
I would say you're a performerfirst.
You're an entertainer.
Yeah, entertainer, you know.
And magic is the way you.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It's just a tool.
It's just how I can stay onstage without being boring.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I don't know that you'd ever be boring.
So we met in 2018, maybe Ithink it was 17 or 18.
You were up in Milwaukee, yep,and you brought me up because I
had a $100 bill my favoritetrick and I'm like, oh crap, I'm
losing a hundred dollar bill,my favorite trick.
And I'm like, oh crap, I'mlosing a hundred dollar bill.
And you had me write my name inthis wide old red sharpie,
(39:44):
kevin, and I watched you do thetrick and and I like figuring
stuff out, yeah, and I had kindof figured it out, I just BS.
No, I can tell you, I can telloff camera, off camera, but I
camera.
But I still, even though Ithought I still was like, oh my
gosh, this is so amazing, but Ijust got rid of that $100 bill.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Really.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yes, not on purpose.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
It only happened recently Twice in less than two
months.
Everyone always like two peoplewere like can I trade you, I
don't want?
They were like afraid.
Two people were like can Itrade you, I don't want?
They were like afraid it wasn'tlike usable.
So I actually have one in mybag, that's.
So I had to trade I think itwas at St Pete Yacht Club Like
someone's written $100.
(40:30):
It's red.
I know I still use a red marker.
Well, because red is easy.
It's easy to see, right.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
So when you're on skates, and I didn't get rid of
it on purpose, like one of thekids was running to get some
stuff and I'm like, oh, I'm like, did that have the?
I was keeping that in, butanyway, that was fun yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I forget where we were going with that I don't
know.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
It kind of went rabbit trail.
I know, but I mean, in somesenses, you've created a path
for your life and you have goalson where you want to go, and so
that's a lot of what a coachwill help someone do.
Yeah, you know, and I mean,there's some people in life who
don't know what they want to bewhen they grow up and they've
been doing whatever they'redoing for 20 years or 30 years.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And so it's who you surround yourself with.
It's what the other people aretelling you, whether they're
affirming or reinforcing thebeliefs or limited beliefs or
whatever BS you have going on inyour head.
You are some of the top fivepeople that you surround
yourself with yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So I have a kind of a closing story.
So I have a daughter and whenwe moved to Wisconsin we were
looking at some houses and theyhad an open house thing and Fred
Astaire Dance Studio was givingaway coupons for a free lesson
(41:56):
and she had been in dance andtheater all her life.
She's a fabulous dancer.
And so she went and pretty soon, you know, and being in dance
is like ballroom dancing isexpensive and they're on her to
go pro and for the last four orfive years, like cal, you should
be a pro dancer.
And she came to the realizationI love this.
(42:19):
I don't want to do itprofessionally because then it
won't become fun, you know, andI'm like that's so powerful and
to realize that a young age yeah, yeah, so yeah, anyways, you
know that's a piece she.
You know she figured that outabout herself and I mean, you
(42:40):
know his parents are.
We were in, we were encouragingher to do that, not trying to
push, but that's like you havean employee.
You see potential for them thatthey don't see in themselves.
Go back to high school Kineticenergy, potential energy.
Potential energy is just a rocksitting there.
A piece of uranium isn't doinganything if it's just sitting
(43:01):
there molded into something else.
And so many people don't knowwhat they want in life, so they
just do what they think theyhave to do or what somebody else
thinks they have to do.
So you know, midlife crisis aremanifestations of being unhappy
(43:21):
with who you are, and somepeople go and reinvent
themselves and some people buy.
If they're old white men, theybuy a Corvette, or you know.
Oh my gosh, you know.
So, yeah, do you know that theynow have quarter-life crisis?
Speaker 1 (43:39):
I think I had one, yeah, so, anyways, thanks for
coming on, bud Sure.
Hope you all enjoyed thatepisode.
I know I did, kevin, thank youso much for coming on.
Means the world If you'reenjoying the content.
A like, share, subscribe Costsnothing and does so much for the
channel.
(43:59):
That's this episode.
Until next time.
I'm your host, danny Corby.
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