May 19, 2025 • 34 mins
What do bourbon, mentorship, and kitchen chaos have in common? Kevin Rice.
In this episode, we chat with Kevin Rice— ormer chef, current GM of Lexington Country Club, and certified executive bourbon steward—to talk about leading with flavor. They dive into what it takes to train young staff (even when they can’t legally taste the wine), how bourbon tastings became a secret weapon for member engagement, and why the best leaders don’t bark orders—they teach.
From redesigning kitchens to managing multi-million-dollar capital projects, Kevin blends people-first leadership with straight-up bourbon wisdom.
If you’ve ever wondered how to run a private club like a Michelin-starred operation—with a little Kentucky charm—this one’s for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light,whether you're a club veteran
just getting your feet wet orsomewhere in the middle, you are
in the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show In place.
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am hangingout with Kevin Rice, who is a
certified bourbon steward, alifelong chef and now general
manager of Lexington CountryClub in Lexington, kentucky,
where he's bringing the heat inmore ways than one.
He shares how his culinarybackground, which includes
working in restaurant groups,gave him the tools to manage
(00:43):
complexity, build resilientteams and think many, many steps
ahead.
From redesigning kitchens toleading capital projects, he's
blended practical know-how withpeople-first leadership and
added a splash of bourbonexpertise for good measure.
We dig into the realities ofyoung service staff especially
the young service staff whenthey're not quite old enough to
drink alcohol and taste alcoholand bourbons and wines, and how
(01:07):
to properly educate them on whatto tell the members.
And it's really neat because wetalk about how bourbon tastings
became a really cool secretweapon for member engagement
with Kevin and his members andwe also touch on why the best
leaders teach, mentor andinspire rather than micromanage.
The best leaders teach, mentorand inspire rather than
micromanage.
Kevin's take on club culture,continuing education and
(01:28):
evolving through the CMAA ispacked with insights and more
than a few sips of Kentuckywisdom.
This is really good and Icannot wait for us to dive in
Really quick.
A quick shout out Some of thepeople who make this show
possible, some of our showpartners we have Kennes, member
vetting golf life, navigators,members first concert golf
partners and club capital, aswell as myself the Denny Corby
(01:50):
experience.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also, there is magic, andavailable right now.
If you would like to learn howto put on the ultimate comedy
night, I have a free guide foryou the comedy night blueprint
how to knock it out of the parkevery single time with your
comedy night.
Head on over to DennyCorbycomslash comedy guide.
That's DennyCorbycom slashcomedy guide and I'll get that
(02:13):
straight to your inbox.
So, private Club Radiolisteners, let's welcome to the
show and raise a glass ofbourbon, kevin.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Rice, kevin rice.
So sun's out, uh and uh, uh.
We're at about 75 today, sogolf course is pretty full.
Uh, until this evening when thebasketball games start again,
and then we'll.
No one will be out there,they'll be in front of tvs can't
beat that getting away from theclub.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
No kidding, now you came from the chef side, right.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Absolutely.
I was a chef for about 30 years, I guess, before I transitioned
over, traded my chef coat for asuit coat.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, what's been the experience so far?
Good, bad.
Do you like it?
What's been any like unexpectedthings?
You were like oh, this isharder, this was easier uh, I
really enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Uh, I I really like uh getting to use uh all the
different skills that I'veacquired.
You know, over the years.
Before I started in the clubbusiness, I was managing smaller
independent restaurant groups,you know, so three or five
restaurants, as the chef for thegroup, so to speak.
(03:38):
After being recruited to a club, uh, it was kind of natural for
me, uh just to go ahead and bethe chef and the chef and the
food and beverage director andthe chef and the catering
director all at the same time.
You know, and uh, it's a lot ofwork just natural progression
(03:58):
through the continuing educationthat cmaa offers you know, uh,
and earning my CCM and stuff,and preparing me to go ahead and
continue to evolve and take onsome new role, a new role and
responsibilities.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, when did you?
When was that moment whenyou're like I'm not just running
food and beverage programsanymore, you know, I'm running
an entire operation.
You know, when did you stopthinking like a chef and more of
like a GM?
Like when did that start andwhy?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I would say that started about five years ago and
I just had some opportunitiesat the last club I was at to
step in and take on some rolesas natural attrition occurred
and then being able to, you knowI had.
(04:56):
I had redesigned severalkitchens and gone through all
the planning and processes withthat several kitchens and gone
through all the planning andprocesses with that.
And then, as projects werestarting to come up at the club,
you know, although different,it's, it's the same.
You know it's it, it'sfurniture instead of stoves and
(05:19):
ovens, but it's the planningprocess is the same.
Expectations are the same.
You know, knowing that you haveto just stay in constant
(05:43):
communication with the folksdoing the work, try not to
change plans because that's justgoing to slow everything down.
You know which is anyone who'srun any project within a private
club knows that.
Keep it.
It's generally not the generalmanagers that are trying trying
to change the plans, it'smembership changes at the last
minute, uh, but you want tominimize those because of cost
overruns you know and uh, whichmembers tend not to like at the
end of a project, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So yeah, do you remember any like advice you got
early on that actually helped?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
in in my chef career.
I was very lucky that the firstchef that, uh, I really worked
for, um joe castro uh god blesshis soul.
He's passed on now, uh, but hetaught everyone who ventured
through him.
He taught us how to have reallyhigh expectations but to
(06:36):
deliver on those expectations byteaching and mentoring.
You know, not by.
I know Chef made for TV.
You see a lot of yelling andscreaming and all of that, but
if you don't want people to workfor you, behave in that manner.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You know, and that is .
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It has always been that way.
If you want to keep goodservice staff, if you want to
keep great kitchen staff and youwant people to evolve and grow
into positions that will comeavailable, you need to have
those really high expectations.
But you need to get to thatpoint by teaching and mentoring
(07:15):
people and allowing them to bethe best they can be for
themselves.
You know so.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So is it kind of like , when you have that person
coming in, who might be some youknow now I won't say rowdy, but
like you know more, that tvpersonality, that loud, whatever
do you kind of pull them aside,like listen, we don't do that
here, you know.
So is that what you mean by tryto like mentor?
It's like, hey, like listen,this is you know off, and then
either like buckle up or well,and, and that would be yeah yeah
(07:43):
you know, danny, that would begenerally with a more
experienced person you'rebringing in.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But I'm talking, you know, at the basic level.
You know, as new service staffcome in right, you know the
expectation, uh, especially whenthey're young kids.
You know, in kentucky now youcan hire an 18-year-old to be a
server You're going to need tospend.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Sorry, is that like a new thing?
Do they usually have to beolder?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yes, Before COVID you had to be 21.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Really.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Or I should say 20 in a day to serve alcohol.
Now you can be 18 to serve, andthat was due to the service
industry struggling to findstaff.
You know there are very few 18year olds but frankly, there's
very few 21 year olds who have alot of wine knowledge, you know
.
So you're going to have tospend a lot of time with those
(08:36):
individuals in terms of buildingthat You're going to have.
You know you're going to haveto arrange the education for
them.
When new line cooks come in evenif they're, they're coming as a
graduated culinary school, saythey may have some basic
knowledge, but how do they applythat then, you know, when they
(08:59):
get on the line and expectingpeople, you know what you really
need to expect from people isthat they're a little bit better
every day, right, that they'remaking progress.
You need to acknowledge thatprogress with them.
You know you can't just leave aline or a service staff and say
(09:21):
, hey, great job everybody.
You need to be very sure thatyou say great job for doing this
particular task.
Or you know, you succeeded morethan you did yesterday on this
and great job in terms of that,you know.
So pairing that praise alongwith what can we do better, you
(09:48):
know, and allowing individualsto start taking responsibility
for themselves.
When you get staff to takeresponsibility for their own
actions, shocking the resultsthat will come from that you
know, so.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So what are you doing ?
So now I'm so like, now I'minterested.
What are you doing that you canhire 18 year olds?
And how are you training themon wine, because technically,
they're not really supposed toeven be able to know what it's
like.
So how are you training them toengage and interact with the
members, to still have a niceexperience with that wine or,
(10:30):
you know, with those wines orwith that education?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Absolutely, you're correct.
We cannot have them sit downand do a wine tasting.
However, you know, and I thinkyou know, a manager is going to
sell that higher, higher endwine.
Most likely they're going to goout and they're going to do the
bottle service.
Uh, however, glass pours thingsof that nature, just teaching
(10:55):
them the different varietals.
And you're going to train themspecifically to your wine list,
right, you know, to begin withthose younger people, the last
thing you want is for a serverto walk to a table and someone
say you know what are your winesby the glass and then not be
able to at least run throughsome of those you know.
(11:19):
Do you like white wine?
You know, I know we haveSauvignon Blanc, chardonnay, all
of those sorts of things.
Uh, so you, you're correct, youwouldn't be.
You're not training them toconsume the wine, but you're
training them on tasting notes,on things of that nature,
understanding, you know the, thebasic wine knowledge.
And then, when you need anactual trained individual, then
(11:45):
a manager or whatever would begoing over there to sell a
higher-end bottle of wine tosomebody.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So it's what?
Just taking a little bit oftime every single day, just five
, ten minutes, hey, here's justabout this.
Here's this about this justslowly dripping education to
them.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Slowly dripping and bringing in the wine reps.
Wine reps love to come in andtalk to them, slowly dripping
and bringing in the wine reps.
Wine reps love to come in andtalk to staff.
You know, and they'll come, for, you know, pre-shift meetings,
20 minutes to sit down.
They obviously want your staffpouring their wines, you know,
and so leaning on your liquorand wine purveyors to come in
(12:24):
and give that, give thatbackground.
Uh, you know it.
It should be part of theironboarding and training process
to just getting getting themexposed to it and exposing them
just a little bit at a time, uh,and repeatedly.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah.
You know so you, you have a,you have a very you know
well-vers the biggest mistakeprivate clubs make when it comes
to their F&Bs being in it.
Now you know, and your wholebackground, you know what's your
philosophy when it comes to F&Band clubs.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, the biggest problem with F&B and clubs,
which has always been, is youknow why don't we make a profit?
And if you're running your F&Boperations appropriately in a
private club privatemember-owned club, right, not a
for-profit club you should belosing money because it's an
(13:26):
amenity.
However, you know you shouldonly be asking the membership to
subsidize that to a point.
So you still need to obviouslyvery much manage the expenses
that go along with that.
But if you're running itappropriately as an amenity,
(13:46):
then you're going to lose money.
You just don't want to belosing too much and you don't
want to lose too little becauseoftentimes that means that your
menu is not satisfying themembers needs.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Interesting.
So yeah, it's about findingthat nice sweet spot.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It's absolutely about finding that nice sweet spot
yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's one of those.
You probably don't.
It it's for each one it's alittle bit different.
You don't know it until you'vebeen there a year or two,
sometimes three.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
You know you finally get your feet wet, kind of you
know set in place uh, yeah, yeah, each club has has a different
uh, uh, say they'll, they'llstomach a different amount.
The members you know as to howmuch that is, you know and uh,
um, a lot of that is what istheir, what is their menu?
(14:43):
Price sensitivity, like youknow do they really want a great
hamburger that still costs ninedollars today, with the side of
fries, even though you know,you know, at your local fast
food restaurant it's going tocost more than that?
But they still want an eightounce burger.
They just want it there.
They may say, just raise mydues, I just don't want to see
(15:03):
it on my bill.
You know so.
But you're correct, each clubis individual and unique in that
way, and you have to have aclear understanding of what the
membership wants and willtolerate.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So Bourbon GM?
I mean, I think I can kind ofunderstand the why this happened
and where it happened, but youknow, you're, you're an
executive bourbon steward, what,what is that?
Where it happened?
But you're an executive bourbonsteward.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
What is that?
So that is basically a bourbonsommelier, so to speak, not
quite as far, you know, as amaster sommelier, but tasting
along with, do the same,olfactory sense training.
(15:56):
So you got all the little vials, yeah, you learn to distill.
So you go through the entiredistilling process, looking at
storage of bourbon, where inwarehouses they're stored, how
you turn those, how you movethem throughout warehouses to
(16:18):
affect the end flavor, charring,levels, of barrels.
So mash builds all of thatalong with just a lot of history
of the industry you know.
So it is a huge segment of theeconomy of Kentucky, which I
(16:48):
call home, and likely will for avery long time and one of my
joys of driving through work towork.
I commute about an hour a dayand in that process I drive by
three major distilleries and asI'm on the highway many mornings
, depending on the weathercondition and which way the wind
blows, I can pass through andsmell those mash builds cooking,
(17:11):
you know.
I can pass through and smellthose mash builds cooking, you
know, and so it's a beautifulhappy place to smell some
bourbon being made and watchhorses run along fence lines as
you drive to work.
So, that sounds a lot betterthan driving to and from New
(17:33):
York City, and you know that'sbasically where as a child,
where I'm from, that's where myfamily is all from, just on the
other side of the Holland andLincoln Tunnels.
I much prefer it here also thanin that area.
I'll go visit all the time.
Love to visit.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I'm sure it's mentally a lot more relaxing,
like going to work.
You're not already amped up?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
you're like, oh, look at the horses and this smells
nice like yeah, it is it, it itis meditation, basically as you
go in, you know so yeah, yeah,that is so cool.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So like, are there are, how?
Like?
Are there like a lot ofexecutive bourbon stewards Like,
was that like a nice littleselling point as you came into a
new club, were they like, oh,we kind of like that.
(18:41):
You have all of the other stuff, but knowing your bourbons is
also like a nice touch.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Obviously in this area, in this region.
You know I had earned it, I, Iguess it was about six years ago
and then, uh, so so sorry so so, almost before, like I think
now bourbon's like even evenmore popular.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So it was like before bourbon became like super
popular, like I feel like youwere like ahead of the curve
with it.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yes, I won't say that I started my journey of
appreciation of bourbon before Iturned 21, but I may have
tasted it once or twice when Iwas in college here in Lexington
and back in Louisville.
But the bourbon industry as awhole has evolved so much
(19:35):
throughout my lifetime, goingfrom more of an afterthought to
obviously a very premium productwithin the marketplace, and it
has really helped the economy ofour state as it has become such
a high-end product and allowedfor certain areas.
(20:00):
And it benefits our farmers.
You know the amount of corn andbarley and stuff that they're
growing for it is very helpfulfor the economy and wheat that
they're growing, for it is veryhelpful for the economy and
wheat.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, what, um, for clubs who want to start
enhancing their bourbon program,how do they start?
I think like a lot of clubs aredoing it more and you can kind
of see some are gradually, someare even making their own kind
of like well, I'd say moreturning more like the men's
rooms into, uh, the men's roomsinto the bourbon area sometimes
when they have the space.
But I think a lot of clubs aregetting into a lot more bourbon
(20:40):
experiences and hopping on thewagon.
Also, how can clubs or like,what's your point of view or
your experience or advice forclubs that want to start getting
more bourbons and enhancingtheir program?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Just grow it gradually.
Don't try to, you know, go fromhaving 10 bourbons to 50
bourbons overnight.
You know, grow it gradually.
Introduce them to the members.
You might be able to start aclub, uh, of members who want to
(21:15):
come in for those tastings, youknow, pairing them with
appetizers or a full dinner,even Um but uh and and the your
liquor purveyors will also comein for those events, because not
only are they going to sellmore at the club, but they're
hoping that your members go andbuy a bottle at the liquor store
.
And so do it gradually.
(21:41):
Make sure, in addition, thatyour bar staff is able to make
the cocktails that would goalong with those cocktails that
would go along with those, andthat, as you bring in bourbon,
you're going to bring indifferent flavors of bitters to
go with those cocktails.
You know, gradually increase,always when you're introducing
(22:03):
people to bourbon, a new bourbondrinker, you know.
Denny was a new bourbon drinkerand went with me to the bar and
said Kevin, you know, show mesomething.
I am not going to introduce youto bourbon with a glass of Pappy
Van Winkle, even thougheverybody knows that name.
You're going to take a tasteweeded bourbon, whether that be
(22:27):
like a weller, a maker's mark,basil hayden is one of the
favorites that I like tointroduce people it's a little
bit lower alcohol by volume,obviously, and and to teach
(22:49):
people how to appreciate bourbonand and just sip on it Neat,
you generally need to start at alower proof and then you work
your way up to the 120 proofsand above, and even that you
need to learn how to drink that.
So it's a process for bourbon,you know you first you smell it,
(23:13):
it and then and then you takeaway, and then you just let it
touch your lips and then you,you let it take away and then
you take a little sip, and soyou need to numb your, numb your
palate before you actually evenbegin drinking it you know, to
enjoy it appropriately so yeah,now that's uh.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So when you say start it gradually, what do you think
is like you know if you canlike expand on that, like, like,
a like, a little bit like.
When you say it's like you knowhow long should it take, is it
like a new bottle, a month to amonth, Like, like, what does?
What does gradual mean?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, so I would you know wherever your starting
point is.
You know, I would try toprobably you know.
And then that following yearyou could double that again.
You know.
So if you have, say, 10 to 12bottles currently on your
bourbon menu then, or on yourbourbon list, then by the end of
(24:14):
the year you could have 20 to24.
By the following year you'vegot 40 to 48 bottles on there,
you know.
And so when I left my last clubI've been at my new club for a
year in my new position when Ileft my last club we were
generally somewhere between 135and 150 bottles of bourbon, you
(24:41):
know, to choose from.
And that was depending on howlong the allocations last all
those special bottles, so and ittook, though, several years to
get it there.
It was not an overnight process.
You need to understand thatmoney is money sitting on a
(25:02):
shelf, so you're likely going tohave to decrease, as you
increase, your inventory ofbourbon, you may need to be
decreasing your inventory ofother spirits so that you're
meeting those financial goals.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
What's a good, do you think, amount spend per year on
?
I'm sure it's all relative.
I'm trying to get at like, like, what are your top three
bourbons every club should have?
Like, if you can, if you canlay the land of, like the law,
every club has to have thesebottles on every shelf.
What are those three bourbons?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So, depending on where you are in the country,
but if we were to say the entirecountry, you know the easiest
way to look at it is thedifferent distilleries, because
each distillery has their ownmash build.
Okay, so my actual favoritebourbons, um, uh, come from the
(26:08):
Heaven Hill distillery.
Uh, so Henry McKenna and ElijahCraig uh, barrel proof are my,
are my two favorite and and I'mtalking bourbons that you can go
to the store and buy Okay, not,we'll take Pappy Van Winkle out
, because the likelihood isyou're not going to get it, but
you can buy these bourbonsthroughout the year and that
(26:33):
profile from their mash build Ijust enjoy very much now.
So, each individual distilleryafter you start tasting from
those distilleries, you're goingto start picking up on those
tasting notes that come fromthose mash builds, because
really what's changing thosebourbons is what warehouse
(26:55):
they're going into, what levelof that warehouse.
You know how many years they'resitting, whether it's in a
hotter area, cooler area, butmost likely they all have a very
similar char on the barrel.
Also, you know, and so I thinkthat's you know you need to pull
(27:18):
from those differentdistilleries so you don't want
to just go to say Buffalo Trace,which is going to have a very
large portfolio.
You don't want to pull yourentire bourbon list out of that
Buffalo Trace distillery.
You know you'd want probablyheavy on Buffalo Trace because
(27:39):
that's where your wellers aregoing to come from.
You know obviously your BuffaloTrace because that's where your
wellers are going to come from.
Obviously your Buffalo Trace.
They make all the Pappies,blantons, names like that that
people are going to recognize.
But you're also going to wantto pull stuff from wild turkey.
So you're going to want to getyour Russell Tans Wild turkey
(28:00):
makes a great rye.
Russell Tans Wild Turkey Makesa Great Rye.
Then the things I mentionedfrom Heaven Hill with the Elijah
Craigs and the Henry McKenna'sand then Maker's Mark is a
wonderful distillery.
That is that bourbon.
(28:20):
Although I drink very little ofit now that they have the cask
strength I could make a cocktailout of it.
But it is such a greatintroductory bourbon for people
and once you get people, all youwant to do is get people
drinking bourbon and then theywill naturally continue to enjoy
them and try other ones.
So I think that's the bestadvice I can give someone on
that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Okay.
So, all that being said, if youhad your choice, every club had
to have these three bottles.
What are your three favoritebottles?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Three favorite bottles.
Well, I gave you two ElijahCraig barrel proof.
Henry McKenna, tan, and then Iwould say, well, or full proof,
if you can get that.
That would be the three bottlesthat you would have to have.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And how come.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Just there.
I think all of those can bedrank alone, and the fact that
all of those can be made into avery good cocktail.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Versatility.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And you should also be able to get them, which is a
very important.
You have to be able to get them, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
And then if I had a bourbon that would make the
alternate list, that wouldprobably russell's 10 year out
of wild turkey so are there any,or have you been in any
instances where somebody ordersa cocktail, a very nice bourbon,
very expensive, rare bourbon,in a like cocktail, so to speak,
(29:49):
or in like a mixed drink?
Do you ever, have you everstopped anybody?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
you mean like, can you put diet coke on that, or?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
something like that, where, like it doesn't matter,
like they just want it, and ifthat's it's their money, they're
spending it right.
Do you?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
advise If you want to put.
You know you'll watch peoplewith a very nice glass of wine
put an ice cube in it.
You know, and, yes, you justsmile and walk away away.
You know, and um, um, I, Idon't.
(30:26):
Bourbon is not, and one of thefirst things they teach you when
you're going through yourexecutive bourbon program is
that bourbon is not set up to beabout snobbery.
We want everyone to enjoy it.
We, we want you to enjoy it,whether it's that you like it
neat, whether it's that you likeit neat with just a little bit
(30:48):
of orange peel in it, or if youneed just a touch of water in it
, it's.
How does it translate to yourpalate?
How do you enjoy it and whatwill bring you back again for
another glass?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I like that a lot.
I like that a lot.
I like that a lot.
This was awesome.
Thank you so much for coming onthis was such a good episode.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I love it.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
If you are enjoying the content, a like, share, subscribe.
Anything you can do to helpmove the channel forward means
the world.
If you would like to downloadthe ultimate comedy night
blueprint how to knock it out ofthe park every single time head
on over to dennycorbycom slashcomedy guide.
That's this episode.
(31:39):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light,whether you're a club veteran
just getting your feet wet orsomewhere in the middle, you are
in the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show In place.
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am hangingout with Kevin Rice, who is a
certified bourbon steward, alifelong chef and now general
manager of Lexington CountryClub in Lexington, kentucky,
where he's bringing the heat inmore ways than one.
He shares how his culinarybackground, which includes
working in restaurant groups,gave him the tools to manage
(00:43):
complexity, build resilientteams and think many, many steps
ahead.
From redesigning kitchens toleading capital projects, he's
blended practical know-how withpeople-first leadership and
added a splash of bourbonexpertise for good measure.
We dig into the realities ofyoung service staff especially
the young service staff whenthey're not quite old enough to
drink alcohol and taste alcoholand bourbons and wines, and how
(01:07):
to properly educate them on whatto tell the members.
And it's really neat because wetalk about how bourbon tastings
became a really cool secretweapon for member engagement
with Kevin and his members andwe also touch on why the best
leaders teach, mentor andinspire rather than micromanage.
The best leaders teach, mentorand inspire rather than
micromanage.
Kevin's take on club culture,continuing education and
(01:28):
evolving through the CMAA ispacked with insights and more
than a few sips of Kentuckywisdom.
This is really good and Icannot wait for us to dive in
Really quick.
A quick shout out Some of thepeople who make this show
possible, some of our showpartners we have Kennes, member
vetting golf life, navigators,members first concert golf
partners and club capital, aswell as myself the Denny Corby
(01:50):
experience.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also, there is magic, andavailable right now.
If you would like to learn howto put on the ultimate comedy
night, I have a free guide foryou the comedy night blueprint
how to knock it out of the parkevery single time with your
comedy night.
Head on over to DennyCorbycomslash comedy guide.
That's DennyCorbycom slashcomedy guide and I'll get that
(02:13):
straight to your inbox.
So, private Club Radiolisteners, let's welcome to the
show and raise a glass ofbourbon, kevin.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Rice, kevin rice.
So sun's out, uh and uh, uh.
We're at about 75 today, sogolf course is pretty full.
Uh, until this evening when thebasketball games start again,
and then we'll.
No one will be out there,they'll be in front of tvs can't
beat that getting away from theclub.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
No kidding, now you came from the chef side, right.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Absolutely.
I was a chef for about 30 years, I guess, before I transitioned
over, traded my chef coat for asuit coat.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, what's been the experience so far?
Good, bad.
Do you like it?
What's been any like unexpectedthings?
You were like oh, this isharder, this was easier uh, I
really enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Uh, I I really like uh getting to use uh all the
different skills that I'veacquired.
You know, over the years.
Before I started in the clubbusiness, I was managing smaller
independent restaurant groups,you know, so three or five
restaurants, as the chef for thegroup, so to speak.
(03:38):
After being recruited to a club, uh, it was kind of natural for
me, uh just to go ahead and bethe chef and the chef and the
food and beverage director andthe chef and the catering
director all at the same time.
You know, and uh, it's a lot ofwork just natural progression
(03:58):
through the continuing educationthat cmaa offers you know, uh,
and earning my CCM and stuff,and preparing me to go ahead and
continue to evolve and take onsome new role, a new role and
responsibilities.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, when did you?
When was that moment whenyou're like I'm not just running
food and beverage programsanymore, you know, I'm running
an entire operation.
You know, when did you stopthinking like a chef and more of
like a GM?
Like when did that start andwhy?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I would say that started about five years ago and
I just had some opportunitiesat the last club I was at to
step in and take on some rolesas natural attrition occurred
and then being able to, you knowI had.
(04:56):
I had redesigned severalkitchens and gone through all
the planning and processes withthat several kitchens and gone
through all the planning andprocesses with that.
And then, as projects werestarting to come up at the club,
you know, although different,it's, it's the same.
You know it's it, it'sfurniture instead of stoves and
(05:19):
ovens, but it's the planningprocess is the same.
Expectations are the same.
You know, knowing that you haveto just stay in constant
(05:43):
communication with the folksdoing the work, try not to
change plans because that's justgoing to slow everything down.
You know which is anyone who'srun any project within a private
club knows that.
Keep it.
It's generally not the generalmanagers that are trying trying
to change the plans, it'smembership changes at the last
minute, uh, but you want tominimize those because of cost
overruns you know and uh, whichmembers tend not to like at the
end of a project, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So yeah, do you remember any like advice you got
early on that actually helped?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
in in my chef career.
I was very lucky that the firstchef that, uh, I really worked
for, um joe castro uh god blesshis soul.
He's passed on now, uh, but hetaught everyone who ventured
through him.
He taught us how to have reallyhigh expectations but to
(06:36):
deliver on those expectations byteaching and mentoring.
You know, not by.
I know Chef made for TV.
You see a lot of yelling andscreaming and all of that, but
if you don't want people to workfor you, behave in that manner.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You know, and that is .
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It has always been that way.
If you want to keep goodservice staff, if you want to
keep great kitchen staff and youwant people to evolve and grow
into positions that will comeavailable, you need to have
those really high expectations.
But you need to get to thatpoint by teaching and mentoring
(07:15):
people and allowing them to bethe best they can be for
themselves.
You know so.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So is it kind of like , when you have that person
coming in, who might be some youknow now I won't say rowdy, but
like you know more, that tvpersonality, that loud, whatever
do you kind of pull them aside,like listen, we don't do that
here, you know.
So is that what you mean by tryto like mentor?
It's like, hey, like listen,this is you know off, and then
either like buckle up or well,and, and that would be yeah yeah
(07:43):
you know, danny, that would begenerally with a more
experienced person you'rebringing in.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
But I'm talking, you know, at the basic level.
You know, as new service staffcome in right, you know the
expectation, uh, especially whenthey're young kids.
You know, in kentucky now youcan hire an 18-year-old to be a
server You're going to need tospend.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Sorry, is that like a new thing?
Do they usually have to beolder?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yes, Before COVID you had to be 21.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Really.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Or I should say 20 in a day to serve alcohol.
Now you can be 18 to serve, andthat was due to the service
industry struggling to findstaff.
You know there are very few 18year olds but frankly, there's
very few 21 year olds who have alot of wine knowledge, you know
.
So you're going to have tospend a lot of time with those
(08:36):
individuals in terms of buildingthat You're going to have.
You know you're going to haveto arrange the education for
them.
When new line cooks come in evenif they're, they're coming as a
graduated culinary school, saythey may have some basic
knowledge, but how do they applythat then, you know, when they
(08:59):
get on the line and expectingpeople, you know what you really
need to expect from people isthat they're a little bit better
every day, right, that they'remaking progress.
You need to acknowledge thatprogress with them.
You know you can't just leave aline or a service staff and say
(09:21):
, hey, great job everybody.
You need to be very sure thatyou say great job for doing this
particular task.
Or you know, you succeeded morethan you did yesterday on this
and great job in terms of that,you know.
So pairing that praise alongwith what can we do better, you
(09:48):
know, and allowing individualsto start taking responsibility
for themselves.
When you get staff to takeresponsibility for their own
actions, shocking the resultsthat will come from that you
know, so.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So what are you doing ?
So now I'm so like, now I'minterested.
What are you doing that you canhire 18 year olds?
And how are you training themon wine, because technically,
they're not really supposed toeven be able to know what it's
like.
So how are you training them toengage and interact with the
members, to still have a niceexperience with that wine or,
(10:30):
you know, with those wines orwith that education?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Absolutely, you're correct.
We cannot have them sit downand do a wine tasting.
However, you know, and I thinkyou know, a manager is going to
sell that higher, higher endwine.
Most likely they're going to goout and they're going to do the
bottle service.
Uh, however, glass pours thingsof that nature, just teaching
(10:55):
them the different varietals.
And you're going to train themspecifically to your wine list,
right, you know, to begin withthose younger people, the last
thing you want is for a serverto walk to a table and someone
say you know what are your winesby the glass and then not be
able to at least run throughsome of those you know.
(11:19):
Do you like white wine?
You know, I know we haveSauvignon Blanc, chardonnay, all
of those sorts of things.
Uh, so you, you're correct, youwouldn't be.
You're not training them toconsume the wine, but you're
training them on tasting notes,on things of that nature,
understanding, you know the, thebasic wine knowledge.
And then, when you need anactual trained individual, then
(11:45):
a manager or whatever would begoing over there to sell a
higher-end bottle of wine tosomebody.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
So it's what?
Just taking a little bit oftime every single day, just five
, ten minutes, hey, here's justabout this.
Here's this about this justslowly dripping education to
them.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Slowly dripping and bringing in the wine reps.
Wine reps love to come in andtalk to them, slowly dripping
and bringing in the wine reps.
Wine reps love to come in andtalk to staff.
You know, and they'll come, for, you know, pre-shift meetings,
20 minutes to sit down.
They obviously want your staffpouring their wines, you know,
and so leaning on your liquorand wine purveyors to come in
(12:24):
and give that, give thatbackground.
Uh, you know it.
It should be part of theironboarding and training process
to just getting getting themexposed to it and exposing them
just a little bit at a time, uh,and repeatedly.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah.
You know so you, you have a,you have a very you know
well-vers the biggest mistakeprivate clubs make when it comes
to their F&Bs being in it.
Now you know, and your wholebackground, you know what's your
philosophy when it comes to F&Band clubs.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, the biggest problem with F&B and clubs,
which has always been, is youknow why don't we make a profit?
And if you're running your F&Boperations appropriately in a
private club privatemember-owned club, right, not a
for-profit club you should belosing money because it's an
(13:26):
amenity.
However, you know you shouldonly be asking the membership to
subsidize that to a point.
So you still need to obviouslyvery much manage the expenses
that go along with that.
But if you're running itappropriately as an amenity,
(13:46):
then you're going to lose money.
You just don't want to belosing too much and you don't
want to lose too little becauseoftentimes that means that your
menu is not satisfying themembers needs.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Interesting.
So yeah, it's about findingthat nice sweet spot.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
It's absolutely about finding that nice sweet spot
yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
It's one of those.
You probably don't.
It it's for each one it's alittle bit different.
You don't know it until you'vebeen there a year or two,
sometimes three.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
You know you finally get your feet wet, kind of you
know set in place uh, yeah, yeah, each club has has a different
uh, uh, say they'll, they'llstomach a different amount.
The members you know as to howmuch that is, you know and uh,
um, a lot of that is what istheir, what is their menu?
(14:43):
Price sensitivity, like youknow do they really want a great
hamburger that still costs ninedollars today, with the side of
fries, even though you know,you know, at your local fast
food restaurant it's going tocost more than that?
But they still want an eightounce burger.
They just want it there.
They may say, just raise mydues, I just don't want to see
(15:03):
it on my bill.
You know so.
But you're correct, each clubis individual and unique in that
way, and you have to have aclear understanding of what the
membership wants and willtolerate.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
So Bourbon GM?
I mean, I think I can kind ofunderstand the why this happened
and where it happened, but youknow, you're, you're an
executive bourbon steward, what,what is that?
Where it happened?
But you're an executive bourbonsteward.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
What is that?
So that is basically a bourbonsommelier, so to speak, not
quite as far, you know, as amaster sommelier, but tasting
along with, do the same,olfactory sense training.
(15:56):
So you got all the little vials, yeah, you learn to distill.
So you go through the entiredistilling process, looking at
storage of bourbon, where inwarehouses they're stored, how
you turn those, how you movethem throughout warehouses to
(16:18):
affect the end flavor, charring,levels, of barrels.
So mash builds all of thatalong with just a lot of history
of the industry you know.
So it is a huge segment of theeconomy of Kentucky, which I
(16:48):
call home, and likely will for avery long time and one of my
joys of driving through work towork.
I commute about an hour a dayand in that process I drive by
three major distilleries and asI'm on the highway many mornings
, depending on the weathercondition and which way the wind
blows, I can pass through andsmell those mash builds cooking,
(17:11):
you know.
I can pass through and smellthose mash builds cooking, you
know, and so it's a beautifulhappy place to smell some
bourbon being made and watchhorses run along fence lines as
you drive to work.
So, that sounds a lot betterthan driving to and from New
(17:33):
York City, and you know that'sbasically where as a child,
where I'm from, that's where myfamily is all from, just on the
other side of the Holland andLincoln Tunnels.
I much prefer it here also thanin that area.
I'll go visit all the time.
Love to visit.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I'm sure it's mentally a lot more relaxing,
like going to work.
You're not already amped up?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
you're like, oh, look at the horses and this smells
nice like yeah, it is it, it itis meditation, basically as you
go in, you know so yeah, yeah,that is so cool.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So like, are there are, how?
Like?
Are there like a lot ofexecutive bourbon stewards Like,
was that like a nice littleselling point as you came into a
new club, were they like, oh,we kind of like that.
(18:41):
You have all of the other stuff, but knowing your bourbons is
also like a nice touch.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Obviously in this area, in this region.
You know I had earned it, I, Iguess it was about six years ago
and then, uh, so so sorry so so, almost before, like I think
now bourbon's like even evenmore popular.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
So it was like before bourbon became like super
popular, like I feel like youwere like ahead of the curve
with it.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yes, I won't say that I started my journey of
appreciation of bourbon before Iturned 21, but I may have
tasted it once or twice when Iwas in college here in Lexington
and back in Louisville.
But the bourbon industry as awhole has evolved so much
(19:35):
throughout my lifetime, goingfrom more of an afterthought to
obviously a very premium productwithin the marketplace, and it
has really helped the economy ofour state as it has become such
a high-end product and allowedfor certain areas.
(20:00):
And it benefits our farmers.
You know the amount of corn andbarley and stuff that they're
growing for it is very helpfulfor the economy and wheat that
they're growing, for it is veryhelpful for the economy and
wheat.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, what, um, for clubs who want to start
enhancing their bourbon program,how do they start?
I think like a lot of clubs aredoing it more and you can kind
of see some are gradually, someare even making their own kind
of like well, I'd say moreturning more like the men's
rooms into, uh, the men's roomsinto the bourbon area sometimes
when they have the space.
But I think a lot of clubs aregetting into a lot more bourbon
(20:40):
experiences and hopping on thewagon.
Also, how can clubs or like,what's your point of view or
your experience or advice forclubs that want to start getting
more bourbons and enhancingtheir program?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Just grow it gradually.
Don't try to, you know, go fromhaving 10 bourbons to 50
bourbons overnight.
You know, grow it gradually.
Introduce them to the members.
You might be able to start aclub, uh, of members who want to
(21:15):
come in for those tastings, youknow, pairing them with
appetizers or a full dinner,even Um but uh and and the your
liquor purveyors will also comein for those events, because not
only are they going to sellmore at the club, but they're
hoping that your members go andbuy a bottle at the liquor store
.
And so do it gradually.
(21:41):
Make sure, in addition, thatyour bar staff is able to make
the cocktails that would goalong with those cocktails that
would go along with those, andthat, as you bring in bourbon,
you're going to bring indifferent flavors of bitters to
go with those cocktails.
You know, gradually increase,always when you're introducing
(22:03):
people to bourbon, a new bourbondrinker, you know.
Denny was a new bourbon drinkerand went with me to the bar and
said Kevin, you know, show mesomething.
I am not going to introduce youto bourbon with a glass of Pappy
Van Winkle, even thougheverybody knows that name.
You're going to take a tasteweeded bourbon, whether that be
(22:27):
like a weller, a maker's mark,basil hayden is one of the
favorites that I like tointroduce people it's a little
bit lower alcohol by volume,obviously, and and to teach
(22:49):
people how to appreciate bourbonand and just sip on it Neat,
you generally need to start at alower proof and then you work
your way up to the 120 proofsand above, and even that you
need to learn how to drink that.
So it's a process for bourbon,you know you first you smell it,
(23:13):
it and then and then you takeaway, and then you just let it
touch your lips and then you,you let it take away and then
you take a little sip, and soyou need to numb your, numb your
palate before you actually evenbegin drinking it you know, to
enjoy it appropriately so yeah,now that's uh.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So when you say start it gradually, what do you think
is like you know if you canlike expand on that, like, like,
a like, a little bit like.
When you say it's like you knowhow long should it take, is it
like a new bottle, a month to amonth, Like, like, what does?
What does gradual mean?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, so I would you know wherever your starting
point is.
You know, I would try toprobably you know.
And then that following yearyou could double that again.
You know.
So if you have, say, 10 to 12bottles currently on your
bourbon menu then, or on yourbourbon list, then by the end of
(24:14):
the year you could have 20 to24.
By the following year you'vegot 40 to 48 bottles on there,
you know.
And so when I left my last clubI've been at my new club for a
year in my new position when Ileft my last club we were
generally somewhere between 135and 150 bottles of bourbon, you
(24:41):
know, to choose from.
And that was depending on howlong the allocations last all
those special bottles, so and ittook, though, several years to
get it there.
It was not an overnight process.
You need to understand thatmoney is money sitting on a
(25:02):
shelf, so you're likely going tohave to decrease, as you
increase, your inventory ofbourbon, you may need to be
decreasing your inventory ofother spirits so that you're
meeting those financial goals.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
What's a good, do you think, amount spend per year on
?
I'm sure it's all relative.
I'm trying to get at like, like, what are your top three
bourbons every club should have?
Like, if you can, if you canlay the land of, like the law,
every club has to have thesebottles on every shelf.
What are those three bourbons?
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So, depending on where you are in the country,
but if we were to say the entirecountry, you know the easiest
way to look at it is thedifferent distilleries, because
each distillery has their ownmash build.
Okay, so my actual favoritebourbons, um, uh, come from the
(26:08):
Heaven Hill distillery.
Uh, so Henry McKenna and ElijahCraig uh, barrel proof are my,
are my two favorite and and I'mtalking bourbons that you can go
to the store and buy Okay, not,we'll take Pappy Van Winkle out
, because the likelihood isyou're not going to get it, but
you can buy these bourbonsthroughout the year and that
(26:33):
profile from their mash build Ijust enjoy very much now.
So, each individual distilleryafter you start tasting from
those distilleries, you're goingto start picking up on those
tasting notes that come fromthose mash builds, because
really what's changing thosebourbons is what warehouse
(26:55):
they're going into, what levelof that warehouse.
You know how many years they'resitting, whether it's in a
hotter area, cooler area, butmost likely they all have a very
similar char on the barrel.
Also, you know, and so I thinkthat's you know you need to pull
(27:18):
from those differentdistilleries so you don't want
to just go to say Buffalo Trace,which is going to have a very
large portfolio.
You don't want to pull yourentire bourbon list out of that
Buffalo Trace distillery.
You know you'd want probablyheavy on Buffalo Trace because
(27:39):
that's where your wellers aregoing to come from.
You know obviously your BuffaloTrace because that's where your
wellers are going to come from.
Obviously your Buffalo Trace.
They make all the Pappies,blantons, names like that that
people are going to recognize.
But you're also going to wantto pull stuff from wild turkey.
So you're going to want to getyour Russell Tans Wild turkey
(28:00):
makes a great rye.
Russell Tans Wild Turkey Makesa Great Rye.
Then the things I mentionedfrom Heaven Hill with the Elijah
Craigs and the Henry McKenna'sand then Maker's Mark is a
wonderful distillery.
That is that bourbon.
(28:20):
Although I drink very little ofit now that they have the cask
strength I could make a cocktailout of it.
But it is such a greatintroductory bourbon for people
and once you get people, all youwant to do is get people
drinking bourbon and then theywill naturally continue to enjoy
them and try other ones.
So I think that's the bestadvice I can give someone on
that.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Okay.
So, all that being said, if youhad your choice, every club had
to have these three bottles.
What are your three favoritebottles?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Three favorite bottles.
Well, I gave you two ElijahCraig barrel proof.
Henry McKenna, tan, and then Iwould say, well, or full proof,
if you can get that.
That would be the three bottlesthat you would have to have.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
And how come.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Just there.
I think all of those can bedrank alone, and the fact that
all of those can be made into avery good cocktail.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Versatility.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And you should also be able to get them, which is a
very important.
You have to be able to get them, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
And then if I had a bourbon that would make the
alternate list, that wouldprobably russell's 10 year out
of wild turkey so are there any,or have you been in any
instances where somebody ordersa cocktail, a very nice bourbon,
very expensive, rare bourbon,in a like cocktail, so to speak,
(29:49):
or in like a mixed drink?
Do you ever, have you everstopped anybody?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
you mean like, can you put diet coke on that, or?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
something like that, where, like it doesn't matter,
like they just want it, and ifthat's it's their money, they're
spending it right.
Do you?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
advise If you want to put.
You know you'll watch peoplewith a very nice glass of wine
put an ice cube in it.
You know, and, yes, you justsmile and walk away away.
You know, and um, um, I, Idon't.
(30:26):
Bourbon is not, and one of thefirst things they teach you when
you're going through yourexecutive bourbon program is
that bourbon is not set up to beabout snobbery.
We want everyone to enjoy it.
We, we want you to enjoy it,whether it's that you like it
neat, whether it's that you likeit neat with just a little bit
(30:48):
of orange peel in it, or if youneed just a touch of water in it
, it's.
How does it translate to yourpalate?
How do you enjoy it and whatwill bring you back again for
another glass?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
I like that a lot.
I like that a lot.
I like that a lot.
This was awesome.
Thank you so much for coming onthis was such a good episode.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I love it.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
If you are enjoying the content, a like, share, subscribe.
Anything you can do to helpmove the channel forward means
the world.
If you would like to downloadthe ultimate comedy night
blueprint how to knock it out ofthe park every single time head
on over to dennycorbycom slashcomedy guide.
That's this episode.
(31:39):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
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