May 26, 2025 • 40 mins
Jeff Wilson, veteran club pro and longtime GM, shares insights from decades in club leadership including extraordinary service moments, cultural development, and strategies for successful interim management.
• Once jumped into a pond to retrieve a member's submerged golf cart and purse
• Cleanliness is the first thing to check when walking into a new club – vents, picture frames, light bulbs
• Member expectations have risen as clubs are now viewed as second homes
• Boards must clearly define "who you want to be and what you want to be" before setting strategy
• Avoid agenda-driven board members focused on personal projects rather than strategic initiatives
• Involve team members in decision-making processes to gain better ideas and stronger buy-in
• Watch your language – eliminate negative phrases like "no," "can't," "don't" from communications
• Successful future clubs will create exceptional experiences for both members and employees
• Creative staff housing solutions help address ongoing hospitality workforce challenges
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show where we give you thescoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode I get to chatwith Jeff Wilson, who is a
veteran club pro, longtime GMand the kind of guy who doesn't
just talk about service, hedives headfirst into it,
literally.
Jeff once jumped into a pond toretrieve a submerged golf cart
but, more importantly, amember's purse and that story
(00:43):
it's somehow not even thewildest thing that we talk about
.
In the episode, jeff shareswhat decades in club leadership
have taught him about culture,expectations and little details
that make a big difference.
We get into the world ofinterim GM gigs how to walk into
a new club, assess morale andbuild trust without stepping on
toes.
Also, why clean vents, workinglight bulbs and straight picture
(01:06):
frames say everything about aclub's standards.
This episode is jam-packed withinsights, laugh-out-loud
moments and enough practicaltakeaways to last you for years.
Before we dive into this episode, a quick shout out to some of
our show partners Golf LifeNavigators, kennes Member,
vetting Members, first ConcertGolf Partners and Club Capital.
(01:26):
They are here to help supportyour club through calm, chaos
and golf cart extractions.
Also, myself, the Denny CorbyExperience.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading and comedy.
And I made something specialfor you all, club professionals,
even though my show is notstraight stand-up comedy, I have
experienced enough clubs andbeen in the business long enough
(01:46):
to know what a good comedynight looks like.
And I've seen and heard of toomany horror stories of clubs
having bad comedy nights.
And even though it's notexactly what I do, it still
reflects on the type of showthat I do.
So I came out with the ultimatecomedy night blueprint and I
want to give it to you for free.
Head on over to dennycorbycomslash comedy guide.
(02:07):
That's dennycorbycom slashcomedy guide.
Now it is time to dive inwithout goggles.
Private Club Radio listeners.
Let's welcome to the show, jeffWilson.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It rolled into the water on the ninth hole of the
Blue Monster.
It was completely submergedbecause all you could see is the
bubbles.
You know that's all you couldsee is the bubbles.
You know, that's all you couldsee, and you know so.
I mean, she was frantic, shehad a purse in there and all
that, and like it's a fridayafternoon, almost dusk is right
upon us, I said no one's gettingthis golf car out today.
(02:37):
So I dove in uh three times andunlatched her golf bag and
thank goodness her purse was inthe golf bag.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Was this a member or a guest?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
No, these were guests .
They were all staying at theJim McLean Learning Center and
of course I joked with McLeanlater.
I said, jim, you also got toteach him how to drive a golf
cart, you know, besides hittinga golf ball.
But yes, the couple that wasplaying with her, she was a
graphic artist.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So she put this picture together and sent it to
me and, of course, I'm thinkingmarketing one-on-one.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's a home run, but we all know about marketing
people If it's not their idea,it's never a good idea.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
That is hysterical.
Now, did she get in the like?
Was she in the water too, ordid she fall out before she got
to the water?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No, no, no.
She never hit her break, and soshe walked away from a golf
cart, and so it was way too lateto grab it.
Now, the good thing is there'sno alligators there.
We know that because that's aman-made pond.
We know it's in there.
There's some big fish in there,though, but I know there's no
(03:46):
alligators.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Otherwise I wouldn't have dove.
There's no way Now.
Did you have goggles oranything?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh hell no.
You were just no, it was real.
I stood on top of the golf cartwhen I got to it and my head
was just barely out of the waterand I'm six two, so I figured
that's five feet, you, you know.
So it's probably nine feet down, eight feet down at the, you
know, at the smallest.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah based on the size of the
golf cart so would you saythat's one of like, your biggest
like, wait what moments in your, in your club management
history?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
no, that was.
That was very early, early inthe beginning, you know.
Yeah, that was when I did someother crazy stuff, like playing
a marathon golf round, 280 holesin one day, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, did you get a Guinness World Record for that
or no?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
No, no, no, Just at that particular time it was the
most that anyone had done in theSouth Florida PGA and all that
happy stuff.
I played like 45 minutes everyround.
It was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
That's impressive.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I don't know if I could do it anymore.
The funny thing is, the nextday the golf club felt like it
was a sledgehammer because I hadto go give a lesson.
But your butt is the one thatis the source, because you don't
realize your buttocks, you knowthe golf swing, or your core,
those glutes, and that's why alot of tour players are always
working hard on their glutes andso forth to streak through that
(05:16):
area.
Yeah, there you go, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You've been in the business since the 80s.
What's changed?
More club operations or the waymembers express their opinions
to management?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I think it's both.
Yeah, that's a double-edgedsword.
Yeah, they both have a side tothem.
I mean, the operations haveobviously changed a lot.
You know a lot more technology,obviously.
You know, when I started, wewere still whipping clubs and
you know drivers and so forthand had to learn how to do that
(05:53):
as well.
That was part of yourapprenticeship process.
I don't even think they do thatanymore, but, yeah, it was a
completely different conceptbecause you know, you had
business school one, one,business school two, and then
you were done.
You had to, you know, give somekind of presentation and there
you go and you became a PJmember.
Yeah, and of course now it's,it's self-taught and so forth,
(06:14):
you know.
So there's there's pros andcons of both sides of it, yeah,
and then, as far as the themember vocal, it's it's more, I
think, their expectations.
You know I'm in this day andage.
You know everyone, regardlessof your income, every dollar you
spend, you want to justify thatdollar spent.
You know, do I go to McDonald'sor do I go to Poor Boys?
(06:36):
You know it's really about.
You know what kind ofexperience you want, and so when
you get, from a membershipperspective, this is your second
home, so they want to, you know, feel like you know it is their
second home and so, you know,their expectations, I think, are
higher.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
It's just, you know, can yougive that support mechanism in
(06:58):
order to initiate all thosethings that all the?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
members want yeah, yeah Now when we were talking in
florida.
You mentioned you've done a lotof interim gm work.
Um, yeah, what's the firstthing that you check when
walking into a new club?
Is it financials, employeemorale or you know?
Is it how the guests treat thecarts?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
no, it's the first thing I look at.
I look, I really I look atcleanliness.
You know, that's what I lookfor at first.
You know, front of the house,back of the house.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You are speaking to the choir, that is.
I actually did two episodes on.
One was on, just they were likemy only like solo episodes.
I've done very few soloepisodes where me just talking
to to the audience or to thepeople here, just me just
talking, there were no guests.
Uh, one was on cleaning yourvents, because I walk it.
(07:51):
So I uh, short story long, Icome from like a facilities
background, sort of it's like afamily business, so I it's just
I don't know if it's from likeworking for like my dad for
years and having to go to, likeyou know, do like quotes and
bids, and it do quotes and bids.
You'd count the vents.
I always look at the vents Insome of the clubs.
They're so filthy.
The one episode was clean yourvents because A, it's just gross
(08:15):
B.
And then the other one was noseblindness.
There's a lot of clubs I'vewalked in.
I'm like does no one else smellthis?
Is this?
Is it just me?
You guys have to.
A lot of clubs I've walked in.
I'm like does no one else smellthis Like?
Is this like?
Is it just me?
Like you?
You guys have to smell this.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Uh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So this is you're speaking my language of just
having a clean facility.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, I mean cause that.
You know that's the low linefruit aspect, because it doesn't
cost anything.
All it does is just have aneyesight and, you know, look
around.
I always tell the people thatwork with me I said there's only
one question I'm ever going toask you.
That's it, only one, and that'sall you got to remember.
Always ask yourself what'swrong with the picture, find
something wrong.
(08:56):
Is the picture not straightened?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I've seen that many times before it drives me crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's the little attention to detail things, that
that that I.
I think it's kind of lost a lot.
You know, um call that oldschool because of old school.
You know, we, we had to, we hadto, I.
I was even told here's a funnyone at lost tree.
You know, when I worked at losttree when I was an, that was my
(09:23):
second job and I got paid $30 aday when I worked for the pro,
which means I was in the bagroom for two days I was a low
man on the totem pole so I was aswing man, and the other two
days when I worked for the club,or the other four days, I got
paid $35 a day.
I was a starter.
And then I also would bring upon the weekends all the golf
(09:45):
carts because you had them, theywere three wheelers and you put
a hitch on them and you pullabout six or eight of them up at
a time and away you go.
But you know I'll never forgetone day it was kind of just kind
of a you know, misty, rainykind of day and so forth and the
head pro, joe Cannon, comes in.
He always had this high-pitchedvoice and he also always wore a
(10:07):
white shirt every single day,every single workday, always a
white shirt.
Never saw him in anything else.
And he looks at me and he says,jeff, this is a day where we
find things to do like dustingthe bag room.
And he went ahead and took hisfingers across an area of the
(10:27):
bag room storage and he pulledup dust.
So I dusted the bag room.
So you know, you don't see that.
So that's that attention todetail that I think is so low
lying fruit for staff.
It just always has yourself.
How would you perceive it Ifyou were walking in?
Don't, don't be the, you'd bethe guest.
(10:48):
Now you know.
So what do you see?
What's the first thing you see?
The straight is a clean, simplehold on, do you?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
at least say you know , good morning, good afternoon
and I forget who I was chattingwith.
The one, uh one, gm, and wewere, uh, like the first thing
he does so.
Like a similar thing is hefinds every light bulb that is
off or what, and we were, uh,like the first thing he does.
So, like a similar thing is hefinds every light bulb that is
off or what and just changesbecause, like that's like a very
visual thing that people think,oh, it looks brighter in here,
like it's always like littlethings that like people have
meet because, like, when youcome in, you know that has to be
(11:18):
tough.
Coming into, you know anexisting club, especially when
you know you're not going to bethere for a super extended
period of time, that has to betough for the staff and the
people because it's like youknow, we have to listen to this
guy.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
That could be a little bittough sometimes.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I think it's how you approach it from a leadership
perspective and you say it rightup front hey guys, here, I'm
here to help you.
You know forever however longI'm going to be here.
I'm here to help things and getthings going in whatever
direction we're going to go.
But that's what I'm here for.
And I think then it's not somuch like oh, you have to do
this or you have to do that.
You're there for support morethan anything.
(11:58):
You know, and trying to maybe,you know, bring that management
team together, even though theyrealize there's someone else
coming in, but at least givethem a sense of purpose, because
there's so many times wherethat management piece for them
previously wasn't even there.
So there was a lot of timeswhere you would see managers
where they never done their ownbudget, their own department
(12:21):
budget, that type of thing.
So from there it's really justa guidance and assistance more
than anything.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And, if I remember correctly, you also saw a lot of
clubs transition betweenmanagement groups, correct.
What mistakes do you see there?
What are the mistakes that yousee clubs make when changing
that sort of leadership?
What are the mistakes that you?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
see clubs make when changing that sort of leadership
.
Well, I think the big challengefor clubs is to really realize
you know what is their function.
I mean, you know.
First of all, I tell any boardthat says I only have two
questions for you who do youwant to be and what do you want
to be?
If you can't define those twothings, then you know you really
haven't defined what your clubis or what kind of culture you
want to have attached to thename of this club.
(13:07):
And so that's the first thing Ithink they have to understand
and what are their role.
And the big challenge is you doget some board members that
have been on there for 12, 13,15 years Believe it or not, I've
seen that model and they get soblindsided because they become
very agenda driven and not somuch strategic.
(13:30):
And so that's the big challengetoo, I think, when it comes to
management companies, and thatboard has to either let them do
it you hired them, let them dotheir job, and it's still hard,
I think, for some boards.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
So how do you get that board aligned?
And actually, maybe first, whatdid you mean by agenda?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Um, it could be something like you know, the GM
pissed me off three years agoand so now I'm going to go get
on the board and I'm going to goafter the GM.
I've seen that that happened,or it could be.
You know the person has a realaffinity for, you know,
something outside of the normwhen it comes to golf, and so
you know that person has wantsto implement that, or he wants
(14:18):
to build more pickleball courts,or, you know, or handball
courts.
Now, whatever it may be, youknow, instead of being strategic
, what is really benefit for theentire membership still
reinvesting into your facility?
But you know, do itstrategically, not based on what
your own personal opinion is.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So then, how do you get the board aligned when
everyone has maybe a differentagenda or a different vision, or
how do you get some of thoseold people off, or how do you
maybe try to transition them out, if that's even a thing?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, I think that it's the same thing that you're
doing with the people that workwith you.
You're you're educating andtraining them, so you're doing
the same thing, for that, I mean, you have to educate them as
well.
I mean, you're the guy who's inthe insider.
We've got all these connectionsfrom a CMAA standpoint and all
these resources from a writtenmaterial aspect, from a video
(15:10):
aspect as well, that can educatethem.
And I think it's important thatevery year, you know you do
have a board retreat you bringin someone from the outside too
to do their assessment from athird party set of view, whether
it be a KKW or a McMahon groupor whatever you know, a group, a
GSI, whoever it may be, thatoffers, you know, those kinds of
(15:31):
services.
Yeah, I think you have to havethat you know, from an outside
perspective at least once, youleast once every two years, and
then that way you keep the boardstill in line and you educate
them constantly, give them allthe material information you can
.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Where do you get that material, sorry?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Where do you get that material from?
Just common sense, really.
I mean life experiences, youknow, from what I've seen.
You know it's just, it's really.
It comes down to common sense.
I mean, you know, how doeseveryone want to be treated with
just kindness and respect?
I mean, you know, and that goesboth ways, it can't be just one
way.
(16:14):
And that's the whole idea too,in creating that culture where
you know people really do enjoycoming to work.
You know how many people cansay that.
Not everyone can say that, andso it's also finding, you know,
that group of individuals tohelp facilitate the whole member
experience.
You know I remember Jim James.
(16:36):
You know we were doing a seminaron the West Coast one year and
we broke out into small groupsand it was all about.
You know, how do you, how doyou motivate the generations?
But it's the same thing from aboard perspective too.
You know you're still, you know, massaging them and just like
in teaching golf, if you hadfive people I would know their
(16:57):
personality in five, ten minutesand I would teach them
accordingly.
So it's the same thing whenyou're board relations also,
that each individual is going tobe a little bit different.
One's going to need a littlebit more coaching.
One's going to be a little bitmore analytical.
One's going to be a numbersperson.
So you have to bend and modifyjust the same as teaching golf
(17:17):
five different ways, with theend result being the same.
I mean, that's how I approachit taught you.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Did you pick that up where?
Where did that come?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
yeah it just it just came from.
You know my own experiences.
You know seeing things.
You know and working for a lotof different people working for
gms, head pros when I wasearlier in my career, seeing it
from a different lens, fromtheir perspective.
And then you know picking.
You know a lot of differentpeople working for GMs, head
pros when I was earlier in mycareer, seeing it from a
(17:46):
different lens, from theirperspective, and then you know
picking, you know a little pieceof that person and keeping that
.
Oh, let me store that, let meremember that.
And the oh, I don't want toremember that Now, let's keep,
let's not do that area.
And you know, you just kind ofpick and choose and you know who
your resources are, and yourresources are always your life
experiences.
I mean, you can read as much asyou want in a book, but you know
it's only going to get you sofar.
(18:06):
It'll get you a ticket into theballgame, but you still haven't
got up to the plate yet, youknow.
And so it's the same conceptthere.
You know you have to experienceit.
You know, and then see thingsdifferently.
I mean, how many times, denny,have you ever gone to a hotel?
Okay, two things.
(18:27):
One how many times does thestaff acknowledge you?
Within 10 feet, eye contact andwithin five, a good morning or
good afternoon, sir.
How many hotels do that Okay?
Number one doesn't.
How many hotels do that Okay?
Number one, doesn't costanything, doesn't cost anything.
Number two how many times doyou ever wake up in the morning
and you still see food trays inthe hallway at 830 in the
(18:51):
morning from the night before,or nine o'clock, 10 o'clock,
those?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
are those little things?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And that goes back to attention to detail.
You know I remember LeeCockrell talked about that.
You know it would drive himcrazy and he was from the Disney
concept.
It would drive him crazy seeingthose food trays.
So what do you do?
He had the night auditor at 530in the morning.
When they're getting ready topunch out the last half hour,
they go and do a sweep, get ridof all those and it's just again
(19:21):
.
It goes back to those littlethings.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I will say I think through some of my travel, some
of the best hotels experiencesI've had are like the little you
know, residence inns in likethe middle of nowhere.
Like they've had the bestcustomer service and customer
then like the most major top,you know granted, like ritz,
(19:43):
like that's what they're trainedfor, that's what they're,
that's what they're doing, butI've had some of the best
experiences of the nicest peoplein like the most random middle
of nowhere hotels oh yeah,absolutely, and you're exactly
right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And those are, those are those fun.
You know you got to stop withthose because again, again, like
you said, it's a little bitmore homely.
You know, I mean thatexperience in that environment.
They're there to really helpyou.
You can see it.
I mean they're really excitedto you know.
So I remember once interviewingfor a job in Wilmington, north
Carolina, many years ago.
I'll never forget the presidenttelling me a story that when he
(20:16):
went to Augusta the play atAugusta he got invited.
So he's all excited, he's allpumped, he's never played there.
So he's telling me the story.
So he gets there.
He says you know, whatmystified me, jeff, was the fact
that I was so excited to bethere to play there.
But they made me feel they wereso excited to have me there as
(20:39):
a guest.
And I said and so thispresident said that's the kind
of experience I want here atthis club.
You know, of course the guestis a little bit different, but
it's the same concept.
They can do things that no oneelse can do.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Does that boil down to training Like where, where
does that?
Where does that come from?
Because any, anybody can do it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It does come from training and it does come from,
I think, some people.
Obviously and you've seen this,denny.
You know some people are bettertraders than others.
You know, not everyone has thatgift of gab number.
Not everyone has that.
That that you know.
They have the leadership skills.
That's fine, but maybe theycan't verbally communicate it,
you know, openly, or you know,in a fashion that really gathers
(21:27):
everyone.
But you know, that's, I think,a trait that either you have or
you don't.
I don't think you'll learn thatin a textbook.
You know, I mean, you're goingto get it right and wrong.
You know, like you know, themichael jordan's of the world
and the kobe bryant's would sayI've missed more shots than I
made.
And that's the same thing inlife, you know, and the same
thing in this business.
You're, you're going to makesome mistakes and you gotta, you
(21:48):
know, just bone up to it andthe way you go and move forward,
how you can fix it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, I think the hard part too sometimes is you
don't know what's going to stickmore, that big win or that big
mistake, because sometimes youcan have one mistake bigger it
doesn't matter and a bunch ofwins, but people still just
attach to that one negativething.
Or it's total opposite you haveall these loses or all these
losses or all these failures,but people stick to the one win
(22:13):
and sometimes you just don'tknow what's going to stick
either.
So it's tough to be vulnerablesometimes and to go up to bat,
so to speak, so many times whenyou don't.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, I saw it once at Indian Creek.
You know the infamous IndianCreek.
You know Coach Shula livedthere and so forth.
And I'll never forget.
I was there for a function.
I'm talking to the executivechef and I said man, you guys
got to be really busy because hebrings in these chefs from
France and stuff for the winterseason.
It's like ridiculous.
But he says I can have 100people wedding and if one meal's
(22:50):
wrong, if one meal's wrong, wedidn't have success.
So that's how high thoseexpectations are.
One meal out of 100, wrong.
Yeah, that's pretty strong.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You've worked with a lot of teams.
You've worked with a lot ofmanagers.
You've experienced a lot.
What's one mistake maybe you'veseen managers make when trying
to implement something new?
Because that's what a lot ofthis kind of I don't want to say
failure can come from, butyou're trying new things.
So what's that biggest mistakeyou think some managers or just
(23:30):
club professionals make whentrying to implement that new
thing?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I think the first thing is they don't involve the
rest of the team members.
I mean, that's the wholeconcept when you talk about a
team.
That's what a team does.
The team leader facilitatesthat.
Hey guys, what do you thinkabout this?
Let's throw this up on thechalkboard.
What do you guys think?
Pros and cons?
Let's talk about it.
Now, you're getting that buy-in, so now those people?
(23:58):
say yeah it felt good.
You know we were part of thesolution.
Or you know, or we helped, ornow I see a different
perspective.
So now you know, now they'repart of that process.
Now you still may not go in thedirection that they're all
recommending, but that's okayyou know, because, being an
empathetic leader, you want tosolicit that input.
(24:18):
You know because, being anempathetic leader, you want to
solicit that input.
You know, because that's howthat person learns.
You know, it's like if I wereto show you how to build a car,
you know I would show you pieceby piece and why we were doing
it, you know.
So, in other words, thatlearning process is going to
stick with you.
You know immediately.
And it all goes back, Denny, tolife experiences.
You know, I think, from amanager's perspective, to the
(24:41):
employees that work with you,and I always get.
It irks me when I do hear somemanagers say I want to thank my
staff.
Well, yes, yes, nothing, notyour staff, you don't own them,
Just like fingernails on achalkboard for me.
Just say I want to thank theteam, you know.
I mean, you know it's like ifyou're a quarterback and I was a
quarterback as a kid you know,when we won a game, I didn't say
(25:04):
, oh, I want to thank my team,yeah, this is my team.
I didn't win, the team won,yeah.
And then sometimes I think thatgets lost.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
And if you get them involved in the process, man, I
think there's just so much moreyou get.
You bring that group together,yeah.
Yeah, the wording of stuff isimportant or can be important.
I think sometimes people willsay certain words or phrases
like like staff, where, likethey genuinely mean team and
they mean different.
(25:34):
But uh, those, those words canmake a big, big, big difference.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yes, I learned that from a seminar from Bill
McFarlane and he wrote a book,avoid Pink Elephants, and he
showed a lot of different audioscenarios, politicians and so
forth, of just pointing outthese words that you're not
supposed to say and basicallyyou never say the word no, can't
(26:01):
, don't, won't.
And then when, like he said letme give you an example and he
said one day I'm on the planeand you know, and also the pilot
says we'll be hopefully landingsafely soon, he says no,
there's no, hopefully landingsafely soon, we'll be landing.
You know I mean so it's the wordassociated in how you say it
and verbalize it, and like oneperson may hear it a different
(26:24):
way, the other person mightperceive it slightly different.
So you have to kind of, youknow, connect all the dots with
your verbiage and sometimesyou're going to get it right.
Sometimes, oh no, I didn'treally mean it that way, but
this is what I just thoughtwe're going to do it.
And oh no, I didn't really meanit that way, but this is what I
thought we're going to do itand it's probably one of those.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
for 90% of people it doesn't make a difference, but
it's those like 5%, 10%, what doyou mean?
There was a comedian, nateBargatze.
He had a thing like one of hisbits was the pilot gets on and
he's like you know, this is mylast flight ever.
You know blah blah blah.
And he's like you know, this ismy last flight ever.
You know, blah blah blah.
And he's like you don't have totell us that now.
(27:00):
Like you could have told us thatafter we landed, Like we didn't
need to know this was your lastflight.
Like, what does that even mean?
Like, is this for everybody?
It's like all of our last, it'sa whole bit.
It was so funny.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It's funny you mention it, because I did.
I had a friend of mine who Iwent on his last flight to
Mexico.
I had never been to Mexico, soI just flew there for like 28
hours and flew back.
It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I've done what they're called mileage runs,
back when flying meant you gotloyalty for actually flying and
not how much you spend on theircredit cards.
But the one time, the one year,was like a thousand miles off,
it was something like so small.
So and people do they're calledmileage runs where basically
you just fly somewhere in themorning, eat breakfast, lunch or
(27:50):
dinner or whatever, and thenjust like fly back home, just to
like maintain your status.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
So wow, wow.
So you were.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You weren't like mark cuban, where you spend 175 000
and you get the flight free therest of your life 250 000 and
they took it away from them.
Oh, did they.
It was either him or somebodyelse, because he like they he
gave it to his father did he?
Yeah, I think he had given itto his dad, I think I think, I
(28:17):
don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, no, that was, that was probably expensive, but
the deal of the century.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I think he had given it to his dad, I think.
I think I don't know, that wasprobably expensive, but the deal
of the century, oh yeah, forsure.
Now, people would kill for that.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
It's still an interesting concept.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
And for those people listening, it is Don't Drop or
Drop the Pink Elephant.
Yeah, bill McFarlane.
Yeah, no, I was just Googlingit and just added it to my
Amazon cart, to the ever-growinglist of books that I need and
want to read.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh, it's a great book because as soon as you read it
you know and it resonates to younow.
So I'm very careful about thosewords no, can't, don't, won't,
even my signage.
You ever seen like a sign thatsays no parking?
Does that bother you?
It bothers me, the word no.
So what would you say instead?
(29:11):
Parking unavailable Softer tone, parking prohibited.
Stronger tone tone versus noparking.
It's like you're telling you todo something, like when you
were a kid and your parentswould tell you not to do
something.
You went ahead and did itanyway.
But when you take out thoseno's, when you see signs
(29:32):
everywhere no smoking, no, justput that circle with the cross
on it with the smoking, and thenthat just shows the sign.
So when you start thinkingabout that and then you start
realizing, well, let's make sureI don't type no, don't, can't,
won't, you know.
So it's really interestingbecause it really grabbed and
(29:54):
resonated to me when I read thatbook or actually saw him, you
know, in person.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
And probably more for the club space also.
Like that, phrasing and wordingis very important, whereas
maybe something and I'm justplaying devil's advocate a
little bit, you know where it'slike no parking this net
sometimes, or maybe, like youknow, city public places, you
have to be that more abrupt andblunt and honest and just kind
of like no part because peopleare nuts, so no, but you know.
(30:21):
So I think, especially for theclub space, where the work
people, I think, appreciatethings like that more, or they
take notice and mention ofthings like that, of how things
are worded, worded, phrased andexpressed oh, yeah, I mean, you
got to cover all your bases.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
well, would someone interpret it this way?
Yeah, oops, well, they wouldinterpret it that way.
So you've got to blend it allin to make sure you're dotting
your i's, you know, cross yourt's because someone well, what
does that mean, you know?
Is that the time it starts, oris that the time we're supposed
to be there, you know?
Or or is that the priceincluding tax and tip, or is it
(30:59):
not including tax and tip?
So you got to make sure thatinformation that you send out
answers everyone's checks,everyone's box for questions and
hopefully, sometimes someonewill still stump you, because
that's what they look for.
They look to find somethingwrong.
And if they find somethingwrong, look what I found and
(31:20):
they get to brag about it.
So it happens.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
As we're getting into 2025, you know, 2026, just
looking forward into the clubspace or just into the world.
What do you think the moresuccessful clubs of the next
decade or so will do differently?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, I think the ones that can obviously do it
when it comes to help, I mean,that's still, you know the
hospitality business, orindustry in general, you know,
still has taken a big you knowgank from COVID days and so we
haven't seen that whole you knowshift of everyone staying in
the hospitality business orjumping around ship is what we
see now and what few there are.
(32:06):
So I think, in general, you knowsome of these clubs, you know
they're doing some kind ofcreative things because they
have they can financially isthey're buying like old motels
and turn them into you knowliving quarters for staff, and I
think that's a real keyinitiative.
And you know you see some clubsthat you know set the bar for,
you know, for foreign assistance, and you know they treat them
(32:29):
like, you know, just like everyhuman being should be treated, I
mean, and they come back andthey create this sense of
culture that man, it's almostlike you're learning I get to
stay there, I get to save somemoney, send it back home, you
know.
So I think in general, I thinkthe more clubs can still do for
employees, that and what's goingto make them unique, you know,
(32:54):
what is that employee experiencegoing to be why this club
versus the club down the road?
Is that employee experiencegoing to be why this club versus
the club down the road?
What's going to make our clubor this club unique with that
employee experience?
And I think that's when youstart answering those questions,
like Augusta, you startchecking all the boxes, man.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
You know, success is a lot easier.
Yeah, now, you brought up, youknow how they treat, you know
the foreign staff, the H2 beastI mean I love, because you have
some of these people coming overwho are hungry, hungry for
success, and they are killing itand just see the opportunity at
hand, more than the people whoyou know are here and are just
(33:36):
kind of like you know diddly,daddling, you know whatever,
through through it and they'regetting surpassed.
I mean, I was, uh, I've had uhKyle, uh Hill house on here, who
came over through the H2B visaand is now I think he's at Boca
woods now and he's killing it,uh, uh.
I just chatted with Linnell andI'm blanking on his last name,
(33:58):
but he, he's the GM now atMonticello motor club and I'm
actually going to be.
He invited me.
We're going to be recording inperson, like there, I think, I
think either driving in a car orjust like in a car.
But he came over like 14 yearsago and is now GM, like he was,
like it's a total flip and justlike came over it.
(34:20):
Like he was like it's a totalflip and just like came over,
was hungry, knew what he wanted,and like it was a great
personality and just like killedit and just worked his way.
Worked his way, one thing ledto another and now, you know,
less than 15 years, he's runninga amazing, you know, in in very
unique club.
Uh, so it's, it's uh, yeah.
And I think a lot of them areseeing like, hey, if you treat
these people, I mean as youshould but should, but treat
(34:40):
them well, give them goodaccommodation, you know, treat
it as an experience and you knowjust, the fruits of that are
huge, tremendous.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, yeah, and that's become a nice little new
industry world in itself isproviding those services.
New industry world in itself isproviding those services.
And I got a friend of mine thatI see all the time at
conference because he and I wentto BMI school together and he's
in that business where heprovides those services.
And that's like you said, ifyou can provide their
(35:14):
transportation because, remember, they come in groups of friends
and so forth for the most partand they don't have any
transportation, theirtransportation because, remember
, they come in groups of friendsand so forth for the most part
and, uh, you know, they don'thave any transportation, so if
you could provide that to workand provide a bed for them, man,
you get a lot of loyalty there.
Oh, they want to come back thefollowing year Huge, Um yeah,
huge, huge, huge.
Yeah.
So I think really that's thebig challenge in 2025.
(35:43):
And I think it's going tocontinue.
It's still finding you knowenough, because if you look at
some of the job bulletins, foryou know daily staff in any of
the golf management companies ohmy God, the list is forever
Whether it be a dishwasher or aserver or a bartender.
I mean, there's so many ofthose positions that they
haven't been able to fill, andso when you look from a human
(36:06):
capital standpoint, you're stillshort-handed.
So you're still trying to offerall these great services, but
you're still not fully staffedand that makes it even harder
for the rest of the team.
So you've got to work throughthat as well.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You've had a really incredible career in club
management and still do.
When you look back what's beenthe most rewarding part of it
all?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
The most rewarding part was actually having a
student.
He was a part-time worker up inWisconsin and he was a banquet
server and he was a risingsenior and I was only supposed
to be there for 60 days and Iended up being there for five
months helping this club,overseeing like 40 weddings in
(36:54):
four or five months.
It was ridiculous, yeah, it wascrazy.
In four or five months, it wasridiculous, yeah, it was crazy.
And so this young gentlemancame to me about two days before
I was leaving the kitchen.
He says Jeff, I talked aboutyou today at school.
Why would you do that?
He said well, we all had to getup in class and tell us about
(37:14):
someone who's made an impact inour thoughts and our philosophy,
and I chose you.
Now I'm floored.
I'm like you know, jesus.
I mean I forget any awards.
I've gotten Throw those out thewindow, throw them in the
garbage.
This is a life experience.
And I said well, I'm curious,you know what did you say?
And he said well, I told him.
You know how many times you puton the apron.
(37:36):
You're the dishwasher, which Ilike doing because you know the
dishes.
Don't talk back to you.
You helped us, you know bustables and did all the things
that we do.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
If you're interested in gettingthe Comedy Night blueprint,
head on over to DennyCorbycomslash comedy guide.
That's DennyCorbycom slashcomedy guide.
I know you're going to enjoy itand get something out of it,
hopefully an amazing comedynight.
That's this episode.
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show where we give you thescoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode I get to chatwith Jeff Wilson, who is a
veteran club pro, longtime GMand the kind of guy who doesn't
just talk about service, hedives headfirst into it,
literally.
Jeff once jumped into a pond toretrieve a submerged golf cart
but, more importantly, amember's purse and that story
(00:43):
it's somehow not even thewildest thing that we talk about
.
In the episode, jeff shareswhat decades in club leadership
have taught him about culture,expectations and little details
that make a big difference.
We get into the world ofinterim GM gigs how to walk into
a new club, assess morale andbuild trust without stepping on
toes.
Also, why clean vents, workinglight bulbs and straight picture
(01:06):
frames say everything about aclub's standards.
This episode is jam-packed withinsights, laugh-out-loud
moments and enough practicaltakeaways to last you for years.
Before we dive into this episode, a quick shout out to some of
our show partners Golf LifeNavigators, kennes Member,
vetting Members, first ConcertGolf Partners and Club Capital.
(01:26):
They are here to help supportyour club through calm, chaos
and golf cart extractions.
Also, myself, the Denny CorbyExperience.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading and comedy.
And I made something specialfor you all, club professionals,
even though my show is notstraight stand-up comedy, I have
experienced enough clubs andbeen in the business long enough
(01:46):
to know what a good comedynight looks like.
And I've seen and heard of toomany horror stories of clubs
having bad comedy nights.
And even though it's notexactly what I do, it still
reflects on the type of showthat I do.
So I came out with the ultimatecomedy night blueprint and I
want to give it to you for free.
Head on over to dennycorbycomslash comedy guide.
(02:07):
That's dennycorbycom slashcomedy guide.
Now it is time to dive inwithout goggles.
Private Club Radio listeners.
Let's welcome to the show, jeffWilson.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It rolled into the water on the ninth hole of the
Blue Monster.
It was completely submergedbecause all you could see is the
bubbles.
You know that's all you couldsee is the bubbles.
You know, that's all you couldsee, and you know so.
I mean, she was frantic, shehad a purse in there and all
that, and like it's a fridayafternoon, almost dusk is right
upon us, I said no one's gettingthis golf car out today.
(02:37):
So I dove in uh three times andunlatched her golf bag and
thank goodness her purse was inthe golf bag.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Was this a member or a guest?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
No, these were guests .
They were all staying at theJim McLean Learning Center and
of course I joked with McLeanlater.
I said, jim, you also got toteach him how to drive a golf
cart, you know, besides hittinga golf ball.
But yes, the couple that wasplaying with her, she was a
graphic artist.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So she put this picture together and sent it to
me and, of course, I'm thinkingmarketing one-on-one.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It's a home run, but we all know about marketing
people If it's not their idea,it's never a good idea.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
That is hysterical.
Now, did she get in the like?
Was she in the water too, ordid she fall out before she got
to the water?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
No, no, no.
She never hit her break, and soshe walked away from a golf
cart, and so it was way too lateto grab it.
Now, the good thing is there'sno alligators there.
We know that because that's aman-made pond.
We know it's in there.
There's some big fish in there,though, but I know there's no
(03:46):
alligators.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Otherwise I wouldn't have dove.
There's no way Now.
Did you have goggles oranything?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh hell no.
You were just no, it was real.
I stood on top of the golf cartwhen I got to it and my head
was just barely out of the waterand I'm six two, so I figured
that's five feet, you, you know.
So it's probably nine feet down, eight feet down at the, you
know, at the smallest.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah based on the size of the
golf cart so would you saythat's one of like, your biggest
like, wait what moments in your, in your club management
history?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
no, that was.
That was very early, early inthe beginning, you know.
Yeah, that was when I did someother crazy stuff, like playing
a marathon golf round, 280 holesin one day, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, did you get a Guinness World Record for that
or no?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
No, no, no, Just at that particular time it was the
most that anyone had done in theSouth Florida PGA and all that
happy stuff.
I played like 45 minutes everyround.
It was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
That's impressive.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I don't know if I could do it anymore.
The funny thing is, the nextday the golf club felt like it
was a sledgehammer because I hadto go give a lesson.
But your butt is the one thatis the source, because you don't
realize your buttocks, you knowthe golf swing, or your core,
those glutes, and that's why alot of tour players are always
working hard on their glutes andso forth to streak through that
(05:16):
area.
Yeah, there you go, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
You've been in the business since the 80s.
What's changed?
More club operations or the waymembers express their opinions
to management?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I think it's both.
Yeah, that's a double-edgedsword.
Yeah, they both have a side tothem.
I mean, the operations haveobviously changed a lot.
You know a lot more technology,obviously.
You know, when I started, wewere still whipping clubs and
you know drivers and so forthand had to learn how to do that
(05:53):
as well.
That was part of yourapprenticeship process.
I don't even think they do thatanymore, but, yeah, it was a
completely different conceptbecause you know, you had
business school one, one,business school two, and then
you were done.
You had to, you know, give somekind of presentation and there
you go and you became a PJmember.
Yeah, and of course now it's,it's self-taught and so forth,
(06:14):
you know.
So there's there's pros andcons of both sides of it, yeah,
and then, as far as the themember vocal, it's it's more, I
think, their expectations.
You know I'm in this day andage.
You know everyone, regardlessof your income, every dollar you
spend, you want to justify thatdollar spent.
You know, do I go to McDonald'sor do I go to Poor Boys?
(06:36):
You know it's really about.
You know what kind ofexperience you want, and so when
you get, from a membershipperspective, this is your second
home, so they want to, you know, feel like you know it is their
second home and so, you know,their expectations, I think, are
higher.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
It's just, you know, can yougive that support mechanism in
(06:58):
order to initiate all thosethings that all the?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
members want yeah, yeah Now when we were talking in
florida.
You mentioned you've done a lotof interim gm work.
Um, yeah, what's the firstthing that you check when
walking into a new club?
Is it financials, employeemorale or you know?
Is it how the guests treat thecarts?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
no, it's the first thing I look at.
I look, I really I look atcleanliness.
You know, that's what I lookfor at first.
You know, front of the house,back of the house.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
You are speaking to the choir, that is.
I actually did two episodes on.
One was on, just they were likemy only like solo episodes.
I've done very few soloepisodes where me just talking
to to the audience or to thepeople here, just me just
talking, there were no guests.
Uh, one was on cleaning yourvents, because I walk it.
(07:51):
So I uh, short story long, Icome from like a facilities
background, sort of it's like afamily business, so I it's just
I don't know if it's from likeworking for like my dad for
years and having to go to, likeyou know, do like quotes and
bids, and it do quotes and bids.
You'd count the vents.
I always look at the vents Insome of the clubs.
They're so filthy.
The one episode was clean yourvents because A, it's just gross
(08:15):
B.
And then the other one was noseblindness.
There's a lot of clubs I'vewalked in.
I'm like does no one else smellthis?
Is this?
Is it just me?
You guys have to.
A lot of clubs I've walked in.
I'm like does no one else smellthis Like?
Is this like?
Is it just me?
Like you?
You guys have to smell this.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Uh yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So this is you're speaking my language of just
having a clean facility.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, I mean cause that.
You know that's the low linefruit aspect, because it doesn't
cost anything.
All it does is just have aneyesight and, you know, look
around.
I always tell the people thatwork with me I said there's only
one question I'm ever going toask you.
That's it, only one, and that'sall you got to remember.
Always ask yourself what'swrong with the picture, find
something wrong.
(08:56):
Is the picture not straightened?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I've seen that many times before it drives me crazy.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
It's the little attention to detail things, that
that that I.
I think it's kind of lost a lot.
You know, um call that oldschool because of old school.
You know, we, we had to, we hadto, I.
I was even told here's a funnyone at lost tree.
You know, when I worked at losttree when I was an, that was my
(09:23):
second job and I got paid $30 aday when I worked for the pro,
which means I was in the bagroom for two days I was a low
man on the totem pole so I was aswing man, and the other two
days when I worked for the club,or the other four days, I got
paid $35 a day.
I was a starter.
And then I also would bring upon the weekends all the golf
(09:45):
carts because you had them, theywere three wheelers and you put
a hitch on them and you pullabout six or eight of them up at
a time and away you go.
But you know I'll never forgetone day it was kind of just kind
of a you know, misty, rainykind of day and so forth and the
head pro, joe Cannon, comes in.
He always had this high-pitchedvoice and he also always wore a
(10:07):
white shirt every single day,every single workday, always a
white shirt.
Never saw him in anything else.
And he looks at me and he says,jeff, this is a day where we
find things to do like dustingthe bag room.
And he went ahead and took hisfingers across an area of the
(10:27):
bag room storage and he pulledup dust.
So I dusted the bag room.
So you know, you don't see that.
So that's that attention todetail that I think is so low
lying fruit for staff.
It just always has yourself.
How would you perceive it Ifyou were walking in?
Don't, don't be the, you'd bethe guest.
(10:48):
Now you know.
So what do you see?
What's the first thing you see?
The straight is a clean, simplehold on, do you?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
at least say you know , good morning, good afternoon
and I forget who I was chattingwith.
The one, uh one, gm, and wewere, uh, like the first thing
he does so.
Like a similar thing is hefinds every light bulb that is
off or what, and we were, uh,like the first thing he does.
So, like a similar thing is hefinds every light bulb that is
off or what and just changesbecause, like that's like a very
visual thing that people think,oh, it looks brighter in here,
like it's always like littlethings that like people have
meet because, like, when youcome in, you know that has to be
(11:18):
tough.
Coming into, you know anexisting club, especially when
you know you're not going to bethere for a super extended
period of time, that has to betough for the staff and the
people because it's like youknow, we have to listen to this
guy.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
That could be a little bittough sometimes.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I think it's how you approach it from a leadership
perspective and you say it rightup front hey guys, here, I'm
here to help you.
You know forever however longI'm going to be here.
I'm here to help things and getthings going in whatever
direction we're going to go.
But that's what I'm here for.
And I think then it's not somuch like oh, you have to do
this or you have to do that.
You're there for support morethan anything.
(11:58):
You know, and trying to maybe,you know, bring that management
team together, even though theyrealize there's someone else
coming in, but at least givethem a sense of purpose, because
there's so many times wherethat management piece for them
previously wasn't even there.
So there was a lot of timeswhere you would see managers
where they never done their ownbudget, their own department
(12:21):
budget, that type of thing.
So from there it's really justa guidance and assistance more
than anything.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
And, if I remember correctly, you also saw a lot of
clubs transition betweenmanagement groups, correct.
What mistakes do you see there?
What are the mistakes that yousee clubs make when changing
that sort of leadership?
What are the mistakes that you?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
see clubs make when changing that sort of leadership
.
Well, I think the big challengefor clubs is to really realize
you know what is their function.
I mean, you know.
First of all, I tell any boardthat says I only have two
questions for you who do youwant to be and what do you want
to be?
If you can't define those twothings, then you know you really
haven't defined what your clubis or what kind of culture you
want to have attached to thename of this club.
(13:07):
And so that's the first thing Ithink they have to understand
and what are their role.
And the big challenge is you doget some board members that
have been on there for 12, 13,15 years Believe it or not, I've
seen that model and they get soblindsided because they become
very agenda driven and not somuch strategic.
(13:30):
And so that's the big challengetoo, I think, when it comes to
management companies, and thatboard has to either let them do
it you hired them, let them dotheir job, and it's still hard,
I think, for some boards.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
So how do you get that board aligned?
And actually, maybe first, whatdid you mean by agenda?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Um, it could be something like you know, the GM
pissed me off three years agoand so now I'm going to go get
on the board and I'm going to goafter the GM.
I've seen that that happened,or it could be.
You know the person has a realaffinity for, you know,
something outside of the normwhen it comes to golf, and so
you know that person has wantsto implement that, or he wants
(14:18):
to build more pickleball courts,or, you know, or handball
courts.
Now, whatever it may be, youknow, instead of being strategic
, what is really benefit for theentire membership still
reinvesting into your facility?
But you know, do itstrategically, not based on what
your own personal opinion is.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So then, how do you get the board aligned when
everyone has maybe a differentagenda or a different vision, or
how do you get some of thoseold people off, or how do you
maybe try to transition them out, if that's even a thing?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, I think that it's the same thing that you're
doing with the people that workwith you.
You're you're educating andtraining them, so you're doing
the same thing, for that, I mean, you have to educate them as
well.
I mean, you're the guy who's inthe insider.
We've got all these connectionsfrom a CMAA standpoint and all
these resources from a writtenmaterial aspect, from a video
(15:10):
aspect as well, that can educatethem.
And I think it's important thatevery year, you know you do
have a board retreat you bringin someone from the outside too
to do their assessment from athird party set of view, whether
it be a KKW or a McMahon groupor whatever you know, a group, a
GSI, whoever it may be, thatoffers, you know, those kinds of
(15:31):
services.
Yeah, I think you have to havethat you know, from an outside
perspective at least once, youleast once every two years, and
then that way you keep the boardstill in line and you educate
them constantly, give them allthe material information you can
.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Where do you get that material, sorry?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Where do you get that material from?
Just common sense, really.
I mean life experiences, youknow, from what I've seen.
You know it's just, it's really.
It comes down to common sense.
I mean, you know, how doeseveryone want to be treated with
just kindness and respect?
I mean, you know, and that goesboth ways, it can't be just one
way.
(16:14):
And that's the whole idea too,in creating that culture where
you know people really do enjoycoming to work.
You know how many people cansay that.
Not everyone can say that, andso it's also finding, you know,
that group of individuals tohelp facilitate the whole member
experience.
You know I remember Jim James.
(16:36):
You know we were doing a seminaron the West Coast one year and
we broke out into small groupsand it was all about.
You know, how do you, how doyou motivate the generations?
But it's the same thing from aboard perspective too.
You know you're still, you know, massaging them and just like
in teaching golf, if you hadfive people I would know their
(16:57):
personality in five, ten minutesand I would teach them
accordingly.
So it's the same thing whenyou're board relations also,
that each individual is going tobe a little bit different.
One's going to need a littlebit more coaching.
One's going to be a little bitmore analytical.
One's going to be a numbersperson.
So you have to bend and modifyjust the same as teaching golf
(17:17):
five different ways, with theend result being the same.
I mean, that's how I approachit taught you.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Did you pick that up where?
Where did that come?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
yeah it just it just came from.
You know my own experiences.
You know seeing things.
You know and working for a lotof different people working for
gms, head pros when I wasearlier in my career, seeing it
from a different lens, fromtheir perspective.
And then you know picking.
You know a lot of differentpeople working for GMs, head
pros when I was earlier in mycareer, seeing it from a
(17:46):
different lens, from theirperspective, and then you know
picking, you know a little pieceof that person and keeping that
.
Oh, let me store that, let meremember that.
And the oh, I don't want toremember that Now, let's keep,
let's not do that area.
And you know, you just kind ofpick and choose and you know who
your resources are, and yourresources are always your life
experiences.
I mean, you can read as much asyou want in a book, but you know
it's only going to get you sofar.
(18:06):
It'll get you a ticket into theballgame, but you still haven't
got up to the plate yet, youknow.
And so it's the same conceptthere.
You know you have to experienceit.
You know, and then see thingsdifferently.
I mean, how many times, denny,have you ever gone to a hotel?
Okay, two things.
(18:27):
One how many times does thestaff acknowledge you?
Within 10 feet, eye contact andwithin five, a good morning or
good afternoon, sir.
How many hotels do that Okay?
Number one doesn't.
How many hotels do that Okay?
Number one, doesn't costanything, doesn't cost anything.
Number two how many times doyou ever wake up in the morning
and you still see food trays inthe hallway at 830 in the
(18:51):
morning from the night before,or nine o'clock, 10 o'clock,
those?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
are those little things?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
And that goes back to attention to detail.
You know I remember LeeCockrell talked about that.
You know it would drive himcrazy and he was from the Disney
concept.
It would drive him crazy seeingthose food trays.
So what do you do?
He had the night auditor at 530in the morning.
When they're getting ready topunch out the last half hour,
they go and do a sweep, get ridof all those and it's just again
(19:21):
.
It goes back to those littlethings.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I will say I think through some of my travel, some
of the best hotels experiencesI've had are like the little you
know, residence inns in likethe middle of nowhere.
Like they've had the bestcustomer service and customer
then like the most major top,you know granted, like ritz,
(19:43):
like that's what they're trainedfor, that's what they're,
that's what they're doing, butI've had some of the best
experiences of the nicest peoplein like the most random middle
of nowhere hotels oh yeah,absolutely, and you're exactly
right.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And those are, those are those fun.
You know you got to stop withthose because again, again, like
you said, it's a little bitmore homely.
You know, I mean thatexperience in that environment.
They're there to really helpyou.
You can see it.
I mean they're really excitedto you know.
So I remember once interviewingfor a job in Wilmington, north
Carolina, many years ago.
I'll never forget the presidenttelling me a story that when he
(20:16):
went to Augusta the play atAugusta he got invited.
So he's all excited, he's allpumped, he's never played there.
So he's telling me the story.
So he gets there.
He says you know, whatmystified me, jeff, was the fact
that I was so excited to bethere to play there.
But they made me feel they wereso excited to have me there as
(20:39):
a guest.
And I said and so thispresident said that's the kind
of experience I want here atthis club.
You know, of course the guestis a little bit different, but
it's the same concept.
They can do things that no oneelse can do.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Does that boil down to training Like where, where
does that?
Where does that come from?
Because any, anybody can do it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It does come from training and it does come from,
I think, some people.
Obviously and you've seen this,denny.
You know some people are bettertraders than others.
You know, not everyone has thatgift of gab number.
Not everyone has that.
That that you know.
They have the leadership skills.
That's fine, but maybe theycan't verbally communicate it,
you know, openly, or you know,in a fashion that really gathers
(21:27):
everyone.
But you know, that's, I think,a trait that either you have or
you don't.
I don't think you'll learn thatin a textbook.
You know, I mean, you're goingto get it right and wrong.
You know, like you know, themichael jordan's of the world
and the kobe bryant's would sayI've missed more shots than I
made.
And that's the same thing inlife, you know, and the same
thing in this business.
You're, you're going to makesome mistakes and you gotta, you
(21:48):
know, just bone up to it andthe way you go and move forward,
how you can fix it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, I think the hard part too sometimes is you
don't know what's going to stickmore, that big win or that big
mistake, because sometimes youcan have one mistake bigger it
doesn't matter and a bunch ofwins, but people still just
attach to that one negativething.
Or it's total opposite you haveall these loses or all these
losses or all these failures,but people stick to the one win
(22:13):
and sometimes you just don'tknow what's going to stick
either.
So it's tough to be vulnerablesometimes and to go up to bat,
so to speak, so many times whenyou don't.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, I saw it once at Indian Creek.
You know the infamous IndianCreek.
You know Coach Shula livedthere and so forth.
And I'll never forget.
I was there for a function.
I'm talking to the executivechef and I said man, you guys
got to be really busy because hebrings in these chefs from
France and stuff for the winterseason.
It's like ridiculous.
But he says I can have 100people wedding and if one meal's
(22:50):
wrong, if one meal's wrong, wedidn't have success.
So that's how high thoseexpectations are.
One meal out of 100, wrong.
Yeah, that's pretty strong.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You've worked with a lot of teams.
You've worked with a lot ofmanagers.
You've experienced a lot.
What's one mistake maybe you'veseen managers make when trying
to implement something new?
Because that's what a lot ofthis kind of I don't want to say
failure can come from, butyou're trying new things.
So what's that biggest mistakeyou think some managers or just
(23:30):
club professionals make whentrying to implement that new
thing?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I think the first thing is they don't involve the
rest of the team members.
I mean, that's the wholeconcept when you talk about a
team.
That's what a team does.
The team leader facilitatesthat.
Hey guys, what do you thinkabout this?
Let's throw this up on thechalkboard.
What do you guys think?
Pros and cons?
Let's talk about it.
Now, you're getting that buy-in, so now those people?
(23:58):
say yeah it felt good.
You know we were part of thesolution.
Or you know, or we helped, ornow I see a different
perspective.
So now you know, now they'repart of that process.
Now you still may not go in thedirection that they're all
recommending, but that's okayyou know, because, being an
empathetic leader, you want tosolicit that input.
(24:18):
You know because, being anempathetic leader, you want to
solicit that input.
You know, because that's howthat person learns.
You know, it's like if I wereto show you how to build a car,
you know I would show you pieceby piece and why we were doing
it, you know.
So, in other words, thatlearning process is going to
stick with you.
You know immediately.
And it all goes back, Denny, tolife experiences.
You know, I think, from amanager's perspective, to the
(24:41):
employees that work with you,and I always get.
It irks me when I do hear somemanagers say I want to thank my
staff.
Well, yes, yes, nothing, notyour staff, you don't own them,
Just like fingernails on achalkboard for me.
Just say I want to thank theteam, you know.
I mean, you know it's like ifyou're a quarterback and I was a
quarterback as a kid you know,when we won a game, I didn't say
(25:04):
, oh, I want to thank my team,yeah, this is my team.
I didn't win, the team won,yeah.
And then sometimes I think thatgets lost.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
And if you get them involved in the process, man, I
think there's just so much moreyou get.
You bring that group together,yeah.
Yeah, the wording of stuff isimportant or can be important.
I think sometimes people willsay certain words or phrases
like like staff, where, likethey genuinely mean team and
they mean different.
(25:34):
But uh, those, those words canmake a big, big, big difference.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yes, I learned that from a seminar from Bill
McFarlane and he wrote a book,avoid Pink Elephants, and he
showed a lot of different audioscenarios, politicians and so
forth, of just pointing outthese words that you're not
supposed to say and basicallyyou never say the word no, can't
(26:01):
, don't, won't.
And then when, like he said letme give you an example and he
said one day I'm on the planeand you know, and also the pilot
says we'll be hopefully landingsafely soon, he says no,
there's no, hopefully landingsafely soon, we'll be landing.
You know I mean so it's the wordassociated in how you say it
and verbalize it, and like oneperson may hear it a different
(26:24):
way, the other person mightperceive it slightly different.
So you have to kind of, youknow, connect all the dots with
your verbiage and sometimesyou're going to get it right.
Sometimes, oh no, I didn'treally mean it that way, but
this is what I just thoughtwe're going to do it.
And oh no, I didn't really meanit that way, but this is what I
thought we're going to do itand it's probably one of those.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
for 90% of people it doesn't make a difference, but
it's those like 5%, 10%, what doyou mean?
There was a comedian, nateBargatze.
He had a thing like one of hisbits was the pilot gets on and
he's like you know, this is mylast flight ever.
You know blah blah blah.
And he's like you know, this ismy last flight ever.
You know, blah blah blah.
And he's like you don't have totell us that now.
(27:00):
Like you could have told us thatafter we landed, Like we didn't
need to know this was your lastflight.
Like, what does that even mean?
Like, is this for everybody?
It's like all of our last, it'sa whole bit.
It was so funny.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It's funny you mention it, because I did.
I had a friend of mine who Iwent on his last flight to
Mexico.
I had never been to Mexico, soI just flew there for like 28
hours and flew back.
It's kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I've done what they're called mileage runs,
back when flying meant you gotloyalty for actually flying and
not how much you spend on theircredit cards.
But the one time, the one year,was like a thousand miles off,
it was something like so small.
So and people do they're calledmileage runs where basically
you just fly somewhere in themorning, eat breakfast, lunch or
(27:50):
dinner or whatever, and thenjust like fly back home, just to
like maintain your status.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
So wow, wow.
So you were.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You weren't like mark cuban, where you spend 175 000
and you get the flight free therest of your life 250 000 and
they took it away from them.
Oh, did they.
It was either him or somebodyelse, because he like they he
gave it to his father did he?
Yeah, I think he had given itto his dad, I think I think, I
(28:17):
don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, no, that was, that was probably expensive, but
the deal of the century.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I think he had given it to his dad, I think.
I think I don't know, that wasprobably expensive, but the deal
of the century, oh yeah, forsure.
Now, people would kill for that.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
It's still an interesting concept.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
And for those people listening, it is Don't Drop or
Drop the Pink Elephant.
Yeah, bill McFarlane.
Yeah, no, I was just Googlingit and just added it to my
Amazon cart, to the ever-growinglist of books that I need and
want to read.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh, it's a great book because as soon as you read it
you know and it resonates to younow.
So I'm very careful about thosewords no, can't, don't, won't,
even my signage.
You ever seen like a sign thatsays no parking?
Does that bother you?
It bothers me, the word no.
So what would you say instead?
(29:11):
Parking unavailable Softer tone, parking prohibited.
Stronger tone tone versus noparking.
It's like you're telling you todo something, like when you
were a kid and your parentswould tell you not to do
something.
You went ahead and did itanyway.
But when you take out thoseno's, when you see signs
(29:32):
everywhere no smoking, no, justput that circle with the cross
on it with the smoking, and thenthat just shows the sign.
So when you start thinkingabout that and then you start
realizing, well, let's make sureI don't type no, don't, can't,
won't, you know.
So it's really interestingbecause it really grabbed and
(29:54):
resonated to me when I read thatbook or actually saw him, you
know, in person.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
And probably more for the club space also.
Like that, phrasing and wordingis very important, whereas
maybe something and I'm justplaying devil's advocate a
little bit, you know where it'slike no parking this net
sometimes, or maybe, like youknow, city public places, you
have to be that more abrupt andblunt and honest and just kind
of like no part because peopleare nuts, so no, but you know.
(30:21):
So I think, especially for theclub space, where the work
people, I think, appreciatethings like that more, or they
take notice and mention ofthings like that, of how things
are worded, worded, phrased andexpressed oh, yeah, I mean, you
got to cover all your bases.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
well, would someone interpret it this way?
Yeah, oops, well, they wouldinterpret it that way.
So you've got to blend it allin to make sure you're dotting
your i's, you know, cross yourt's because someone well, what
does that mean, you know?
Is that the time it starts, oris that the time we're supposed
to be there, you know?
Or or is that the priceincluding tax and tip, or is it
(30:59):
not including tax and tip?
So you got to make sure thatinformation that you send out
answers everyone's checks,everyone's box for questions and
hopefully, sometimes someonewill still stump you, because
that's what they look for.
They look to find somethingwrong.
And if they find somethingwrong, look what I found and
(31:20):
they get to brag about it.
So it happens.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
As we're getting into 2025, you know, 2026, just
looking forward into the clubspace or just into the world.
What do you think the moresuccessful clubs of the next
decade or so will do differently?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, I think the ones that can obviously do it
when it comes to help, I mean,that's still, you know the
hospitality business, orindustry in general, you know,
still has taken a big you knowgank from COVID days and so we
haven't seen that whole you knowshift of everyone staying in
the hospitality business orjumping around ship is what we
see now and what few there are.
(32:06):
So I think, in general, you knowsome of these clubs, you know
they're doing some kind ofcreative things because they
have they can financially isthey're buying like old motels
and turn them into you knowliving quarters for staff, and I
think that's a real keyinitiative.
And you know you see some clubsthat you know set the bar for,
you know, for foreign assistance, and you know they treat them
(32:29):
like, you know, just like everyhuman being should be treated, I
mean, and they come back andthey create this sense of
culture that man, it's almostlike you're learning I get to
stay there, I get to save somemoney, send it back home, you
know.
So I think in general, I thinkthe more clubs can still do for
employees, that and what's goingto make them unique, you know,
(32:54):
what is that employee experiencegoing to be why this club
versus the club down the road?
Is that employee experiencegoing to be why this club versus
the club down the road?
What's going to make our clubor this club unique with that
employee experience?
And I think that's when youstart answering those questions,
like Augusta, you startchecking all the boxes, man.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
You know, success is a lot easier.
Yeah, now, you brought up, youknow how they treat, you know
the foreign staff, the H2 beastI mean I love, because you have
some of these people coming overwho are hungry, hungry for
success, and they are killing itand just see the opportunity at
hand, more than the people whoyou know are here and are just
(33:36):
kind of like you know diddly,daddling, you know whatever,
through through it and they'regetting surpassed.
I mean, I was, uh, I've had uhKyle, uh Hill house on here, who
came over through the H2B visaand is now I think he's at Boca
woods now and he's killing it,uh, uh.
I just chatted with Linnell andI'm blanking on his last name,
(33:58):
but he, he's the GM now atMonticello motor club and I'm
actually going to be.
He invited me.
We're going to be recording inperson, like there, I think, I
think either driving in a car orjust like in a car.
But he came over like 14 yearsago and is now GM, like he was,
like it's a total flip and justlike came over it.
(34:20):
Like he was like it's a totalflip and just like came over,
was hungry, knew what he wanted,and like it was a great
personality and just like killedit and just worked his way.
Worked his way, one thing ledto another and now, you know,
less than 15 years, he's runninga amazing, you know, in in very
unique club.
Uh, so it's, it's uh, yeah.
And I think a lot of them areseeing like, hey, if you treat
these people, I mean as youshould but should, but treat
(34:40):
them well, give them goodaccommodation, you know, treat
it as an experience and you knowjust, the fruits of that are
huge, tremendous.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, yeah, and that's become a nice little new
industry world in itself isproviding those services.
New industry world in itself isproviding those services.
And I got a friend of mine thatI see all the time at
conference because he and I wentto BMI school together and he's
in that business where heprovides those services.
And that's like you said, ifyou can provide their
(35:14):
transportation because, remember, they come in groups of friends
and so forth for the most partand they don't have any
transportation, theirtransportation because, remember
, they come in groups of friendsand so forth for the most part
and, uh, you know, they don'thave any transportation, so if
you could provide that to workand provide a bed for them, man,
you get a lot of loyalty there.
Oh, they want to come back thefollowing year Huge, Um yeah,
huge, huge, huge.
Yeah.
So I think really that's thebig challenge in 2025.
(35:43):
And I think it's going tocontinue.
It's still finding you knowenough, because if you look at
some of the job bulletins, foryou know daily staff in any of
the golf management companies ohmy God, the list is forever
Whether it be a dishwasher or aserver or a bartender.
I mean, there's so many ofthose positions that they
haven't been able to fill, andso when you look from a human
(36:06):
capital standpoint, you're stillshort-handed.
So you're still trying to offerall these great services, but
you're still not fully staffedand that makes it even harder
for the rest of the team.
So you've got to work throughthat as well.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You've had a really incredible career in club
management and still do.
When you look back what's beenthe most rewarding part of it
all?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
The most rewarding part was actually having a
student.
He was a part-time worker up inWisconsin and he was a banquet
server and he was a risingsenior and I was only supposed
to be there for 60 days and Iended up being there for five
months helping this club,overseeing like 40 weddings in
(36:54):
four or five months.
It was ridiculous, yeah, it wascrazy.
In four or five months, it wasridiculous, yeah, it was crazy.
And so this young gentlemancame to me about two days before
I was leaving the kitchen.
He says Jeff, I talked aboutyou today at school.
Why would you do that?
He said well, we all had to getup in class and tell us about
(37:14):
someone who's made an impact inour thoughts and our philosophy,
and I chose you.
Now I'm floored.
I'm like you know, jesus.
I mean I forget any awards.
I've gotten Throw those out thewindow, throw them in the
garbage.
This is a life experience.
And I said well, I'm curious,you know what did you say?
And he said well, I told him.
You know how many times you puton the apron.
(37:36):
You're the dishwasher, which Ilike doing because you know the
dishes.
Don't talk back to you.
You helped us, you know bustables and did all the things
that we do.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
If you're interested in gettingthe Comedy Night blueprint,
head on over to DennyCorbycomslash comedy guide.
That's DennyCorbycom slashcomedy guide.
I know you're going to enjoy itand get something out of it,
hopefully an amazing comedynight.
That's this episode.
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
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