July 7, 2025 • 35 mins
The ground is shifting beneath private golf clubs, and not everyone sees it coming. In this eye-opening conversation with Jason Becker, founder of Golf Life Navigators, we peel back the curtain on dramatic changes reshaping the private club landscape across the Sunbelt and beyond.
Remember those endless waitlists and lightning-fast home sales in golf communities? That reality is fading fast. Home prices have dropped 10-15% in many golf communities while inventory has doubled or even tripled. Buyers who once made decisions in weeks now spend months meticulously comparing options. The result? Clubs that proudly displayed "waitlist only" signs are suddenly scrambling to sell memberships again.
Jason reveals fascinating data points that club leaders need to understand: 90% of consumers combine their club and home search, yet nearly half prefer living outside community gates - a major shift from pandemic preferences. Today's buyers prioritize breakfast services, modern fitness facilities, wellness programming, and poolside amenities over traditional selling points like signature golf holes.
What's driving this transformation? We're more than halfway through the Baby Boomer retirement wave, with only 5-6 years remaining before Gen X becomes the primary market. Clubs clinging to reputation and tradition while ignoring changing preferences are setting themselves up for trouble. The solution isn't slashing initiation fees (a mistake many clubs made during the Great Recession), but rather crafting compelling value propositions centered on culture, community, and innovative service offerings.
Whether you're a club leader wondering why your waitlist is shrinking, a membership director seeking fresh marketing approaches, or simply curious about the future of private clubs, this conversation provides a roadmap for navigating the significant changes already underway. The clubs that thrive won't necessarily be those with the most prestigious golf courses, but those creating the most vibrant, service-oriented communities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode I am chattingwith a longtime friend of mine
and the show's here, jasonBecker from Golf Life Navigators
.
If you've been hearing whispersabout softening golf real
estate prices, explodinginventory and clubs quietly
freaking out behind there, we'vegot a waitlist sign because
(00:41):
today's episode is going toconfirm everything you suspected
and then some.
And the guy I call when I wantall the unfiltered scoop on
what's really happening in theworld of private golf real
estate, we have Jason Becker.
We get into it all the homeprices in golf communities,
especially across the Sunbelt,down 10 to 15 percent In 90
(01:03):
percent.
And buyers they are shoppingsmarter, slower and looking for
more than just manicuredfairways.
And jason walks us through whatthis all means for clubs,
especially those relying onreputation and tradition to
carry the day and, spoiler alert, it's not working like it used
to because we are diving intothe 2025 mid-year buying trends
report from golf life navigators, which, by the way, is stacked
with insights if you haven'tgotten it yet, you like it used
to, as we are diving into the2025 mid-year buying trends
(01:24):
report from Golf Life Navigators, which, by the way, is stacked
with insights.
If you haven't gotten it yet,you need to get it.
Eight out of 10 buyers arehunting for a club and a house
at the same time.
Nearly half of them want tolive outside the gates which is
interesting and they areprioritizing things like
breakfast services, modernfitness facilities, wellness
(01:45):
programming and even poolsidefood and beverage over
traditional selling points.
Jason is breaking it down whatclubs need to rethink, where the
opportunities are popping upand how to stay ahead of the
curve.
So buckle up.
This episode has got thestrategy market scoop and a few
hot takes you may or may notagree with.
Before we get to the episode,though, a quick shout out Thank
(02:08):
you to some of our show partners.
If you're interested inlearning about them more, make
sure you check them out.
We have Kenneth's membervetting Golf Life Navigators
Members First Concert GolfPartners, as well as myself, the
Denny Corby Experience.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading and comedy.
A ton of laughs, gasps and holycraps.
If you wanna learn more, headon over to dennycorbycom.
(02:32):
And, while you're searching thewebs, if you have not heard or
are thinking about coming toManagement in Motion my club
leadership and management eventhappening September 21st you
gotta check it out.
Privateclubcom slash MIM forManagement in Motion.
It's a full day of driving BMWs, autox, drag racing, drifting,
(02:54):
go-karts, so much more, withreal leadership, education in
management woven in perfectlyfrom other GMs, club
professionals who do stuff onthe track and how that relates
to club leadership andmanagement.
It is going to be absolutelyepic 50 seats and there's only
18 seats left.
Cannot wait.
Privateclubcom slash MIM.
(03:15):
Enough about all that, though.
Let's get straight to the goods.
Private Club Radio listeners,let's welcome back on the show
our friend from Golf LifeNavigators, jason Becker.
I'm not a real estate guy byany means.
I don't have a crystal ball.
I don't own a second or thirdhome in Naples I wish.
I barely understand mortgagemath.
But I'm here with Jason Becker,the guy behind Gulf Life
(03:39):
Navigators, and he sends me anemail that starts with hey,
there's been a shift.
And then I see news work.
Newsweek is basically screamingFlorida real estate is in
trouble, and now I am listening.
So basically, today I haveJason Becker golf life
navigators and we're diving intosomething that matters a lot
more than clubs probably realize, and this just isn't about home
(04:02):
prices.
It's about who's moving, wherethey're moving, who's buying,
how long they're taking to makea decision and what that means
for your club's growth strategyover the next 6, 12, 18 plus
months.
Jason Becker, welcome to theshow, thanks.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Happy to be here.
And full disclosure I'm not arealtor so I know just as much
about it as you do, but I knowwhat buyers want.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
No, you got the data, you got the scoop, you got the
rub, you got the skinny 100%.
So, yeah, all right.
What in particular?
Anything.
So what's the end goal here?
What are we?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think that for club officials you know, to
understand what's going on inthe marketplace is what we want
to get to, Because at the end ofthe day, that's what they're
not concerned about.
But watching really closely,for sure I think we go down that
road.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Let's talk about the email that you sent me, because
you did send me an email and Iwas like this seems important
and then I actually called youimmediately and I was like I'm
no, you know, I know enough tobe dangerous and I stick to my
lanes, but this sounds importantand you explained it to me and
can you just give the quickscoop on kind of what's going on
with private clubs and realestate right now?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Sure.
So, as you know, we'reconnected across the country
with what we call a golfcertified real estate agent, and
these eight real estate agentsare kind of specialized in golf
home sales and work with golfbuyers and listings and whatnot.
And so we have access to what'sgoing on in their world and so
we do a lot of survey work.
(05:43):
Access to what's going on intheir world and so we do a lot
of survey work.
So a couple of months ago westarted to feel from the
consumer side that thetransition times were getting a
little bit longer.
The past couple of years it'sbeen like 9 to 12 months
transition time.
Looking at the data, it wasgoing to like 12 to 16 months.
So that was a flag.
(06:03):
Why is that?
And so I reached out to theagents.
Agents kind of agreed theirbuyers are slowing down, and so
we asked them why and it'sboiling down to that the prices
just got out of hand for a golfhome.
Um, and there was just a lackof inventory, so people who were
selling their golf homes wereable to put a hefty price tag on
(06:24):
it.
That was about a year ago.
Today Now, what they'rereporting is inventory has
doubled, if not even tripled ina lot of communities, so up 100%
.
A golf community last year whomight have had 10 homes for sale
now has 20 to 30.
(06:44):
Golf community last year whomight have had 10 homes for sale
now has 20 to 30.
Prices have fallen, notsignificantly for golf homes,
but around 5% to 10% in a lot ofcommunities because of more
inventory.
Why?
What's causing it?
Just because more options,right.
So if you were a consumer lastyear looking to buy a golf home
in Naples and there was onlyfive in a specific community
(07:06):
that you want to live in or aclub that you wanted to play,
you paid a premium because youwanted to move, you wanted to
make that you know that's yourretirement or a second home, so
you paid for it.
But now that we have so manymore listings, that gives the
buyers more options and thesellers aren't.
They've got to be a little bitmore, you know, have a little
(07:27):
bit more wiggle room with whatthey get out of their home.
So it might start to fall alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Is this more about sellers panicking or buyers
pulling back?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I don't think sellers are panicking, but buyers are
definitely say, okay, no onewants to pay the peak level for
anything.
So buyers have said, okay,we're going to wait this out.
A lot of it had to do with theelection last year.
They want to see what was goingto pan out from that the
macroeconomics of golf ingeneral, with wait lists and
initiation fees rising.
(07:58):
So consumers just want to watchthe market.
And now they're coming back infull force, you know, back into
the game of finding a golf homeand a membership.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Are buyers showing up differently now then?
Like are they more picky, moreprice sensitive?
Just confused.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, yeah, it's hard for the real estate agents,
especially so where, if youdon't have a lot of options for
the buyer, they can just chooseone and move on.
Well, no, there's tons ofoptions, so it's more showings.
It's well.
This one has a brand new airconditioning unit.
That one, the pool pump, isolder than most.
(08:40):
So the time of acquisition ofthese properties has gotten
longer.
It's like 60 to 90 days now,where a year or two years ago
was 30 days.
30 to 45 closings werehappening from person who finds
a home to you know, writing acheck and closing on yeah, yeah,
and this I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
is this like is this a dumb question, like our clubs
feeling this shift yet, or is itone of those?
It's coming just sort of waitsituations?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
wait lists have completely diluted.
In some cases clubs have gonefrom having a sizable wait list
(09:29):
to needing to sell membershipsthis year alone to make sure
that they're at cap to get thosemember dues.
So they're definitely seeing it, and real estate was kind of
driving that.
There was homes coming on themarket in these communities
which means that members wereposturing to leave and so now
they sell their home.
Okay, we're exiting the cluband so one by one, by one, the
(09:50):
wait list starts to get smaller.
So, which isn't a bad thing.
I was telling someone the otherday you know clubs for the last
couple of years their attritionrates were cut in half of what
they normally were before COVID,which was eight to 10% a year.
Um, there was three to 4% perclub benchmarking last couple of
years.
Well, that means you have lesspeople writing initiation checks
(10:13):
so you don't have that capitalcoming in.
So this kind of um, uh,increased, uh activity of people
buying into the club isactually a good thing for clubs
activity of people buying intothe club is actually a good
thing for clubs, yeah yeah.
The problem, though not really aproblem, but the concern for a
lot of club officials, though,is okay, we got all these homes
(10:33):
for sale.
Who's buying in here when wedon't really have control of
that, and how do we get controlof that To make sure that the
folks that are buying in thereare right for the club and the
culture?
And that's the tricky part.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That, yeah, that, that that I mean it's tricky
enough to find excuse me, theright culture fit when you don't
have that.
But when you have a place, acommunity where, as long as you
have a house, you can get a, youknow, you can become a member,
(11:06):
that's, that's tough.
That's tough.
Uh, just chatting with withsomeone on another episode we
just recently recorded sort oflike about that.
Um, you know just certain, youknow limitations and things and
what you can and can't do andwhat happens when there's, you
know, reprimations and when youhave to, you know, do a little
bit of, uh, you know, slappingon the wrist and when you're in
that tight community andeveryone's just kind of it's a
(11:27):
unique spot.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Oh yeah, well, it's that, and clubs historically
have never wanted to getinvolved in real estate, because
it's likely there's two orthree members that live in the
community that do all the sales,or most of them, and so you
don't want to upset that applecart either and and upset them
so.
But the club needs to have somesort of arms wrapped around.
(11:54):
Who's buying there and who'sselling.
It's the wave of the future,for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And shameless plug to our friends Kenneth's member
vetting Our club's looking toreally step up their member
vetting process.
So I also saw that Newsweekarticle.
It kind of just said like thehousing market in Florida, uh,
you know, the markets are introuble.
Um, I thought that was prettypretty.
You know that's a mood.
(12:23):
Uh, what is your take on that,especially since you live in
Florida right now?
Um, are you seeing the sametrend in your data?
Is it being a little dramatic?
What's what's the, what's thelay of the land?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well, Southwest Florida is kind of a bubble.
There's just so much wealththat comes here from people
around the world they're tryingto locate to South Florida in
general that we don't really getaffected at least in my market
anyway by that.
We're also studying the golfcourse markets markets and
they're still very strong interms of pricing, holding strong
(12:59):
for home sales.
I think it's the ancillarymarkets that are on the state
that probably are suffering alittle bit more, because Florida
is expensive to live in,especially if you're in the
resort and hospitality worldwhere you don't make a lot of
money for doing what you'redoing but yet you're living in
these markets where it's veryexpensive.
So yeah, it definitely is acause for concern, for sure, for
(13:23):
the state.
However, in the club side, theclubs still remain very strong
with demand.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Not seeing any sort of slowdown.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The only thing that I am seeing in the data is that
before COVID, roughly 40% or soof consumers did not want to
live in a golf community, whichis really alarming to me,
because if your members don'twant to live in a golf community
(13:52):
, then that means as a club, youhave to open up the gates to
non-resident memberships, andthat could not be a good thing.
If a majority of your membersin the future live outside the
gates and you're trying to passa $20 million capital
improvement plan on the club andthe amenities.
Non-residents vote yes for that.
Vote yes for that.
(14:19):
Maybe not so.
Um, that number then shifted toonly like 15 during covid did
not want to live in a golfcommunity.
They wanted to be inside thegates of a safe, controlled
environment.
But now that we're past it,that number's spiking back up.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Um, it's back to like 32 percent now so is there like
an age range you kind of see inthat because, like, I can
almost see and this is me justkind of like talking out loud
Like I would like if I was in,like, let's say, like Florida,
for example, it's like I don'tcare so much to like live right
there, so it's like I don't needto like live right at the club,
like I don't need to be likebehind the gate, like is that a
(14:51):
shift that you're seeing?
Like is that part of it?
Or like where?
Like do you have any more intelor data on like the the why
behind that?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
yeah, it's.
It's really kind of funny thethe, the intel that we have on
it just by asking consumers whydon't you want to live in a club
?
And our average consumer islike 58 years old, 59, um, it's
funny there.
You know, everyone's seenSeinfeld and Del Boca Vista and
where Jerry's parents live andthat's what they think that it
(15:20):
is Like.
It's all these old peoplesitting around a board.
To your point.
You know earlier writing nastygrams because you left your car
parked in the street overnightor the recycling bins out.
So that's the perception a lotof people have and they just
don't want to be part of that.
I want to be near shopping anddining, etc.
(15:40):
But then you have the otherspectrum, or other side of the
spectrum of people that aresaying, no, I want to live
inside the gates of the golfcommunity because I want to go
to the clubhouse, have somecocktails and drive my golf cart
back and not be out on the road.
And so there's differentreasonings for both sides of why
they either do or don't want tolive in there, but they're very
(16:03):
simple ones.
There's nothing major, there'snothing financial or anything
like that.
Yeah.
So, yeah, you wouldn't.
I don't think you'd last longin del boca vista, I feel like
you'd get excommunicated.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah how do you, how do you get clubs?
So I still think there's a alot of clubs that separate real
estate and membership in theirminds.
Uh, and just because you knowsome clubs don't have it, just
you know maybe immediately,immediately, right right there,
or you know whatever theirecosystem is, but like, how do
(16:40):
you get them to think morelinked?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
well, um, honestly, you know platforms like ours
with gln.
It gives them the opportunityto put homes are for sale in the
club on there so that whenconsumers are looking, we know
that 90% of consumers arecombining a search with club and
home.
So let's showcase it and putthose homes on there.
(17:06):
And that's just one way ofsubtly getting involved in that
space of the industry.
The other is just to have abrokerage on site, give them an
office, and it doesn't mean thatthe club has to get any sort of
compensation for part of thecommissions.
I've seen models where a clubwill give a broker an office
(17:29):
space and they're there with ateam of two or three for the
year.
And that broker needs to be inevery board meeting, needs to be
at every member event, justlike the head pro is and the
chef, to really be engaged withthe membership so that the
members use them when they sell.
And that's a way for the clubthen to control who's buying it
(17:49):
there or at least manage it.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And by that you mean having not having anybody in
every.
You know everybody and theirgrandmother being able to sell
in in your community.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And this is very like specific type of club also.
But yeah, no that that that issmart Cause I'm sure there are
clubs that just let anybody andeverybody come through.
It's just like, oh boy here wego.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Who's this Right?
Right, yeah, especially thequote unquote bundled
communities where you buy a homeand you're an automatic member.
They rely on the local realestate community to bring people
in there, and so is that a goodmodel.
I think it's done okay for themfor the last 20 years, 30 years
, but for the future I think youreally want people in there.
They're right for the culture.
This saves so much aggravationand you know, no club wants a
(18:44):
group of members that are nothappy, and you can.
If that's a way to avoid it,then certainly you should try to
.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So if, uh, if a club is in oneof these more bearish markets
right now, what are they, orwhat should they be doing
differently than they were, say,a year ago today?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
um, definitely keeping an eye on, you know the
homes are for sale in theircommunity or for directly around
it, because that's reallydictating how many people are
leaving and watching thatattrition rate or resignation
list.
It wouldn't surprise me at allif there's some clubs that have
an attrition rate that's 12% to15% this year, because I think
(19:31):
we talked about this in the pastbut my theory has always been
that the average attrition ratefor a club is eight to 10% a
year pre-COVID.
So in 2020, the 82-year-oldsaid, all right, we're going to
resign for natural reasons,downsides move whatever COVID
hits and it's like, okay, we'renot going to resign now, let's
(19:53):
keep what we have and getthrough this.
Well, here we are four yearslater.
That's why attrition dropped to3% to 4% over the last several
years.
Now that we're past it, that now86-year-old says, okay, we're
out now Home's going on themarket, going to resign for the
club.
And so you're coupling thatwith the natural attrition that
occurs the 8% to 10% a year.
(20:14):
Some clubs could be in a realpickle this year and we're
seeing it.
Club benchmarking is kind ofpredicting it as well.
Of the club should be on alertthat you could see, you know a
higher increase in peopleleaving, yeah, which, again,
it's not necessarily a bad thingbecause it reinvigorates the
(20:35):
membership with new members andnew capital coming in, etc.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's just the clubs have to have that Melissa Hansen
marketing plan in place to makesure that they're exposed to
the marketplace as people arelooking.
What's the first steps to that?
So you know you're, you're a gm, you're a membership director,
you know it's something thatthey, what's something they can
do this week, next week or assoon as possible to kind of
prepare and start for the shiftand like moving that or moving
their needle forward.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I think they definitely have to have plans
for some sort of marketingapproach.
It doesn't have to be massivecampaigns, but plugging into
environments like ours, orworking with Ed Heil and
Storyteller and that group, orMelissa Hansen, just for
consulting on social media andhow the club can tastefully
(21:29):
promote or advertise what theyhave without building a
billboard saying but join here.
So all of those things I thinkare really, really important to
get back in front of, because wehave I'm speaking just kind of
about the Sunbelt and, and youknow, the average buyer is 58 to
six years old we have roughlyfive to six years left of baby
(21:52):
boomers.
Um, retiring every day is 13000 people a day retire, so
that's going to last for aboutfive to six years.
Well then, you're entering genx and you know our generation.
So, um, is the club going toprepare for that?
And you have to start now forsure, because the baby boomer
run is going to slow.
We're more than halfway throughit.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, that's a big thing to start
thinking about.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Oh yeah and that's a whole conversation on its own
that clubs are starting toposture for.
It's like, okay, what amenitiescan we buy or build to compete
with everyone else?
And I don't think that there isanything specific.
I think that clubs are going tostart to shift to more service
oriented amenities detailingyour car, dry cleaning, daycare,
(22:43):
business centers.
That's what it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
You know, I'm, I'm surprised that's not more of a
thing it is a little your neckof the woods.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I think that a lot of the the private clubs offers
things some smaller things likethat, but not in the the sunbelt
at all.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Interesting all about the pool and the pickleball neo
big, expensive amenities yeahto me like it's like little
things, like knowing that if Ido x, y and and Z on Tuesdays I
always have lunch, I always dothis, I always play that, but
man, just when I drop my car off, oh, it's also going to get
detailed.
Or like the weekly, that's justlike little things.
(23:29):
And service value ads, I thinkcan just enhance the top bottom
lines or even just the memberexperience, just knowing your
people well and just havingthose different services and
offerings.
I mean I'm even working on anepisode, total, like pivot, you
know, total side quest.
But like I'm surprised moreclubs and maybe they do, it's
(23:50):
just not talked about but atleast from the people I talk to
it's not.
But like more liketransportation services for the
older members of just you know,a car just handling, making sure
the flight, the IT, because alot of them, you know it's a
pain in the butt to travelnowadays and it's a lot.
It's a lot and, like you know,getting there and arriving and
picking up and all that's allvery stressful.
(24:10):
So I think that's just evengoing to like a bigger city is
driving it.
I think that's like a, like atapped or untapped little like
thing.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, no, I think that that's the wave of the
private club future.
For sure, Stuff like that, um,especially with more virtual
jobs or people who are in theirforties, can live in Naples and
work, you know, and still be amember of the club.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, are there any clubs you've seen that are just
nailing it?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, are there any clubs you've seen that are just
nailing it?
Yeah, I mean, uh, the, the onesthat are really, really focused
on, um, the culture of the club.
So our data is still to thisday.
The friendly culture of theclub is the number one
motivating factor as to whatpeople are looking for in their
ideal club, and it drives mebananas.
I'll go to a private clubwebsite and it shows empty
(25:02):
dining rooms in this emptypractice facility, and I know
it's hard to stage a picture ofmembers, but you gotta have
people smiling and happiness andlaughter, cause that's what
people are looking for.
It's not about the signaturehole anymore.
It's that it's having a realestate presence on the website,
(25:24):
whether it's a portal.
The show homes for sale and theamenities Highlight them.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Any upcoming amenities or any amenities that
you're seeing is, like, anythingunique you see coming to light
more.
Is there something you're likeoh, I didn't see that coming.
Or, you know, I thinkpickleball, like you know,
probably padel at this point,but is there any like unique
stuff?
Like I don't know if this wouldbe considered an amenity, but
(25:53):
like I know a couple clubs arereally killing it with sound
bath and like that sort of thing.
So I guess it's more of justlike a feature, but like, are
you seeing any unique amenitiesthat you're like, oh, that's
something to be on the lookoutfor.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, there's a lot of, again service-based things
like that Cold plunges, thegardening at the clubs where
members can, you know, growtheir own farm to table food.
There's a club in texas I can'tthink of it now.
(26:24):
They have got a whole likeeducation program so they've got
, obviously, members who areexperts in their fields, whether
it's accounting or legal,whatever.
They've got a whole serieswhere you could take classes as
a member at night to learn thesespecific skills and I guess
it's just sold out Like everyevery class is full, it's
cooking, you know all thesethings.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So isn't that like the point of the club is to like
meet and engage in, like bewith your people, so like that's
just genius, it's great, ityeah, it's it's so simple.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It's just a matter of building it and, you know,
managing it to a degree.
Yeah, a club is a group oflike-minded individuals, you
know, who are focused on thesame thing, and that's what a
golf club and course is, youknow.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, are there any underrated markets or regions
for private club growth Right?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Right now that's a good question.
I for private club growth.
Right now that's a goodquestion.
I don't know if there'snecessarily underrated.
I know that consumers haveshifted gears over the last
couple of years because somemarkets are just sold out.
So, like Scottsdale is sold out, so let's go look at Tucson or
Flagstaff.
Same thing here in NaplesPeople are like okay, let's go
(27:37):
look at Sarasota and Venice.
We hear Tampa has some reallygood clubs, we're going to look
up there.
So yeah, all those second tiermarkets if you will have,
definitely, and does that affectand change the initiation fees?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
and things of that nature.
Should it Does it?
Should they just keep on track,like what's that lay of the
(28:13):
land to you, if anything thatyou've seen?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, no, it's a big question.
We did a conference a couplemonths ago where there's a lot
of general managers in there andthey were wondering did we get
too aggressive on initiationfees?
And the answer is no.
I mean, a lot of them, you know, had supply and demand Right,
so why not increase initiationfees?
I don't think they're going togo backwards.
That's a tough decision to makeas a board president to reduce
the initiation fee when someonejust bought one for, you know, a
hundred K and you're droppingto 50 K.
(28:46):
So I think that'll hold strongit's.
I think that clubs might justhave to get a little bit more
aggressive value, you know,delivery of services and just to
make it, you know, to theconsumer it's okay and I
understand we're at the higherlevel of the market with a
hundred thousand dollarmembership.
(29:06):
But this is what you're going toget here and this is the kind
of, you know, leadership that wehave and services and amenities
, so that way they can keepselling, if you will and then
without ever having it decreasetheir membership or initiation,
because that's something I knowclub wants to do.
Yeah no I've lived through that,actually that they, post the
(29:28):
great recession, the club thatwas at before the 2008 was
charging 110 000 to be a memberthere.
Just after the recession, youcould get into that club for
$15,000.
And so you can imagine the$100,000 members were just
beside themselves.
But then you also have twocultures of people that are much
(29:52):
different, and so expectationsare different.
Oh my goodness, and that wasfor clubs.
We were not rare.
That was for a lot of clubs.
Oh my goodness, and that wasfor clubs.
We were not rare for a lot ofclubs.
Wow, yeah, but I don't see thathappening in this scenario.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, no, that's a well and and it's okay to not
have a wait list and to justmaintain your, maintain your
ground, like that's okay, be whoyou are, that's what a club is,
and put on your sales hat andyou're.
Every club is not for everyperson, and right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
no, that's what's fun about marketing.
And I mean we know that 60 ofnew members come from existing
members.
So work with your folks thatget their friends of friends and
then focus on that 40.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
You know doing, you know sophisticated marketing
allowing more events for peopleto bring their guests and doing
more of that, yeah so that's,you know, I would have been, I,
I could, I can be in bothpeople's shoes, like I could
(30:58):
imagine being the person whojust paid a hundred, looking at
the person who just paid 15.
And I can, like I can just feelthe tension in both sides.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, it was.
It was stressful.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So it actually dropped right just from a
hundred to 15 grand.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Literally within a year.
Yeah, yeah it was very tough tomanage and it was a club where
there was no tea times so youhad both groups to get out at
once and you know conflict.
Um, our leadership team managedit great.
I mean they, they, they wereout in front of it but they club
(31:38):
owner had to do what he had todo to keep news you know I'm
good, I I understand all sides,but man, oh yeah, tough one, wow
, wow yeah, hopefully we'llnever go back to those dark days
.
No, I don't know some might,some might, oh sure yeah, um
(32:06):
clubs that don't have goodleadership and you know they
definitely could get themselvesinto a pickle mr becca, thank
you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Really appreciate you sharing uh.
People want to learn more aboutyou and how you can help their
club.
Where do they go?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
GolfLifeNavigatorscom .
And that's it.
We're a spoke in the wheel forthe marketing effort.
Plug in.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
Want to learn more about myself?
Head on over to DennyCorbycom.
Want to learn more aboutmanagement in motion?
Over to dennycorbycom.
Want to learn more aboutmanagement in motion?
Head over toprivateclubradiocom.
Slash mim and make sure yousign up for our newsletter over
on privateclubradiocom.
That's this episode.
I'm your host, Denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode I am chattingwith a longtime friend of mine
and the show's here, jasonBecker from Golf Life Navigators
.
If you've been hearing whispersabout softening golf real
estate prices, explodinginventory and clubs quietly
freaking out behind there, we'vegot a waitlist sign because
(00:41):
today's episode is going toconfirm everything you suspected
and then some.
And the guy I call when I wantall the unfiltered scoop on
what's really happening in theworld of private golf real
estate, we have Jason Becker.
We get into it all the homeprices in golf communities,
especially across the Sunbelt,down 10 to 15 percent In 90
(01:03):
percent.
And buyers they are shoppingsmarter, slower and looking for
more than just manicuredfairways.
And jason walks us through whatthis all means for clubs,
especially those relying onreputation and tradition to
carry the day and, spoiler alert, it's not working like it used
to because we are diving intothe 2025 mid-year buying trends
report from golf life navigators, which, by the way, is stacked
with insights if you haven'tgotten it yet, you like it used
to, as we are diving into the2025 mid-year buying trends
(01:24):
report from Golf Life Navigators, which, by the way, is stacked
with insights.
If you haven't gotten it yet,you need to get it.
Eight out of 10 buyers arehunting for a club and a house
at the same time.
Nearly half of them want tolive outside the gates which is
interesting and they areprioritizing things like
breakfast services, modernfitness facilities, wellness
(01:45):
programming and even poolsidefood and beverage over
traditional selling points.
Jason is breaking it down whatclubs need to rethink, where the
opportunities are popping upand how to stay ahead of the
curve.
So buckle up.
This episode has got thestrategy market scoop and a few
hot takes you may or may notagree with.
Before we get to the episode,though, a quick shout out Thank
(02:08):
you to some of our show partners.
If you're interested inlearning about them more, make
sure you check them out.
We have Kenneth's membervetting Golf Life Navigators
Members First Concert GolfPartners, as well as myself, the
Denny Corby Experience.
There's excitement, there'smystery.
Also there's magic, mindreading and comedy.
A ton of laughs, gasps and holycraps.
If you wanna learn more, headon over to dennycorbycom.
(02:32):
And, while you're searching thewebs, if you have not heard or
are thinking about coming toManagement in Motion my club
leadership and management eventhappening September 21st you
gotta check it out.
Privateclubcom slash MIM forManagement in Motion.
It's a full day of driving BMWs, autox, drag racing, drifting,
(02:54):
go-karts, so much more, withreal leadership, education in
management woven in perfectlyfrom other GMs, club
professionals who do stuff onthe track and how that relates
to club leadership andmanagement.
It is going to be absolutelyepic 50 seats and there's only
18 seats left.
Cannot wait.
Privateclubcom slash MIM.
(03:15):
Enough about all that, though.
Let's get straight to the goods.
Private Club Radio listeners,let's welcome back on the show
our friend from Golf LifeNavigators, jason Becker.
I'm not a real estate guy byany means.
I don't have a crystal ball.
I don't own a second or thirdhome in Naples I wish.
I barely understand mortgagemath.
But I'm here with Jason Becker,the guy behind Gulf Life
(03:39):
Navigators, and he sends me anemail that starts with hey,
there's been a shift.
And then I see news work.
Newsweek is basically screamingFlorida real estate is in
trouble, and now I am listening.
So basically, today I haveJason Becker golf life
navigators and we're diving intosomething that matters a lot
more than clubs probably realize, and this just isn't about home
(04:02):
prices.
It's about who's moving, wherethey're moving, who's buying,
how long they're taking to makea decision and what that means
for your club's growth strategyover the next 6, 12, 18 plus
months.
Jason Becker, welcome to theshow, thanks.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Happy to be here.
And full disclosure I'm not arealtor so I know just as much
about it as you do, but I knowwhat buyers want.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
No, you got the data, you got the scoop, you got the
rub, you got the skinny 100%.
So, yeah, all right.
What in particular?
Anything.
So what's the end goal here?
What are we?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think that for club officials you know, to
understand what's going on inthe marketplace is what we want
to get to, Because at the end ofthe day, that's what they're
not concerned about.
But watching really closely,for sure I think we go down that
road.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Let's talk about the email that you sent me, because
you did send me an email and Iwas like this seems important
and then I actually called youimmediately and I was like I'm
no, you know, I know enough tobe dangerous and I stick to my
lanes, but this sounds importantand you explained it to me and
can you just give the quickscoop on kind of what's going on
with private clubs and realestate right now?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Sure.
So, as you know, we'reconnected across the country
with what we call a golfcertified real estate agent, and
these eight real estate agentsare kind of specialized in golf
home sales and work with golfbuyers and listings and whatnot.
And so we have access to what'sgoing on in their world and so
we do a lot of survey work.
(05:43):
Access to what's going on intheir world and so we do a lot
of survey work.
So a couple of months ago westarted to feel from the
consumer side that thetransition times were getting a
little bit longer.
The past couple of years it'sbeen like 9 to 12 months
transition time.
Looking at the data, it wasgoing to like 12 to 16 months.
So that was a flag.
(06:03):
Why is that?
And so I reached out to theagents.
Agents kind of agreed theirbuyers are slowing down, and so
we asked them why and it'sboiling down to that the prices
just got out of hand for a golfhome.
Um, and there was just a lackof inventory, so people who were
selling their golf homes wereable to put a hefty price tag on
(06:24):
it.
That was about a year ago.
Today Now, what they'rereporting is inventory has
doubled, if not even tripled ina lot of communities, so up 100%
.
A golf community last year whomight have had 10 homes for sale
now has 20 to 30.
(06:44):
Golf community last year whomight have had 10 homes for sale
now has 20 to 30.
Prices have fallen, notsignificantly for golf homes,
but around 5% to 10% in a lot ofcommunities because of more
inventory.
Why?
What's causing it?
Just because more options,right.
So if you were a consumer lastyear looking to buy a golf home
in Naples and there was onlyfive in a specific community
(07:06):
that you want to live in or aclub that you wanted to play,
you paid a premium because youwanted to move, you wanted to
make that you know that's yourretirement or a second home, so
you paid for it.
But now that we have so manymore listings, that gives the
buyers more options and thesellers aren't.
They've got to be a little bitmore, you know, have a little
(07:27):
bit more wiggle room with whatthey get out of their home.
So it might start to fall alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Is this more about sellers panicking or buyers
pulling back?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I don't think sellers are panicking, but buyers are
definitely say, okay, no onewants to pay the peak level for
anything.
So buyers have said, okay,we're going to wait this out.
A lot of it had to do with theelection last year.
They want to see what was goingto pan out from that the
macroeconomics of golf ingeneral, with wait lists and
initiation fees rising.
(07:58):
So consumers just want to watchthe market.
And now they're coming back infull force, you know, back into
the game of finding a golf homeand a membership.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Are buyers showing up differently now then?
Like are they more picky, moreprice sensitive?
Just confused.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, yeah, it's hard for the real estate agents,
especially so where, if youdon't have a lot of options for
the buyer, they can just chooseone and move on.
Well, no, there's tons ofoptions, so it's more showings.
It's well.
This one has a brand new airconditioning unit.
That one, the pool pump, isolder than most.
(08:40):
So the time of acquisition ofthese properties has gotten
longer.
It's like 60 to 90 days now,where a year or two years ago
was 30 days.
30 to 45 closings werehappening from person who finds
a home to you know, writing acheck and closing on yeah, yeah,
and this I don't.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
is this like is this a dumb question, like our clubs
feeling this shift yet, or is itone of those?
It's coming just sort of waitsituations?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
wait lists have completely diluted.
In some cases clubs have gonefrom having a sizable wait list
(09:29):
to needing to sell membershipsthis year alone to make sure
that they're at cap to get thosemember dues.
So they're definitely seeing it, and real estate was kind of
driving that.
There was homes coming on themarket in these communities
which means that members wereposturing to leave and so now
they sell their home.
Okay, we're exiting the cluband so one by one, by one, the
(09:50):
wait list starts to get smaller.
So, which isn't a bad thing.
I was telling someone the otherday you know clubs for the last
couple of years their attritionrates were cut in half of what
they normally were before COVID,which was eight to 10% a year.
Um, there was three to 4% perclub benchmarking last couple of
years.
Well, that means you have lesspeople writing initiation checks
(10:13):
so you don't have that capitalcoming in.
So this kind of um, uh,increased, uh activity of people
buying into the club isactually a good thing for clubs
activity of people buying intothe club is actually a good
thing for clubs, yeah yeah.
The problem, though not really aproblem, but the concern for a
lot of club officials, though,is okay, we got all these homes
(10:33):
for sale.
Who's buying in here when wedon't really have control of
that, and how do we get controlof that To make sure that the
folks that are buying in thereare right for the club and the
culture?
And that's the tricky part.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
That, yeah, that, that that I mean it's tricky
enough to find excuse me, theright culture fit when you don't
have that.
But when you have a place, acommunity where, as long as you
have a house, you can get a, youknow, you can become a member,
(11:06):
that's, that's tough.
That's tough.
Uh, just chatting with withsomeone on another episode we
just recently recorded sort oflike about that.
Um, you know just certain, youknow limitations and things and
what you can and can't do andwhat happens when there's, you
know, reprimations and when youhave to, you know, do a little
bit of, uh, you know, slappingon the wrist and when you're in
that tight community andeveryone's just kind of it's a
(11:27):
unique spot.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Oh yeah, well, it's that, and clubs historically
have never wanted to getinvolved in real estate, because
it's likely there's two orthree members that live in the
community that do all the sales,or most of them, and so you
don't want to upset that applecart either and and upset them
so.
But the club needs to have somesort of arms wrapped around.
(11:54):
Who's buying there and who'sselling.
It's the wave of the future,for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
And shameless plug to our friends Kenneth's member
vetting Our club's looking toreally step up their member
vetting process.
So I also saw that Newsweekarticle.
It kind of just said like thehousing market in Florida, uh,
you know, the markets are introuble.
Um, I thought that was prettypretty.
You know that's a mood.
(12:23):
Uh, what is your take on that,especially since you live in
Florida right now?
Um, are you seeing the sametrend in your data?
Is it being a little dramatic?
What's what's the, what's thelay of the land?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Well, Southwest Florida is kind of a bubble.
There's just so much wealththat comes here from people
around the world they're tryingto locate to South Florida in
general that we don't really getaffected at least in my market
anyway by that.
We're also studying the golfcourse markets markets and
they're still very strong interms of pricing, holding strong
(12:59):
for home sales.
I think it's the ancillarymarkets that are on the state
that probably are suffering alittle bit more, because Florida
is expensive to live in,especially if you're in the
resort and hospitality worldwhere you don't make a lot of
money for doing what you'redoing but yet you're living in
these markets where it's veryexpensive.
So yeah, it definitely is acause for concern, for sure, for
(13:23):
the state.
However, in the club side, theclubs still remain very strong
with demand.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Not seeing any sort of slowdown.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
The only thing that I am seeing in the data is that
before COVID, roughly 40% or soof consumers did not want to
live in a golf community, whichis really alarming to me,
because if your members don'twant to live in a golf community
(13:52):
, then that means as a club, youhave to open up the gates to
non-resident memberships, andthat could not be a good thing.
If a majority of your membersin the future live outside the
gates and you're trying to passa $20 million capital
improvement plan on the club andthe amenities.
Non-residents vote yes for that.
Vote yes for that.
(14:19):
Maybe not so.
Um, that number then shifted toonly like 15 during covid did
not want to live in a golfcommunity.
They wanted to be inside thegates of a safe, controlled
environment.
But now that we're past it,that number's spiking back up.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Um, it's back to like 32 percent now so is there like
an age range you kind of see inthat because, like, I can
almost see and this is me justkind of like talking out loud
Like I would like if I was in,like, let's say, like Florida,
for example, it's like I don'tcare so much to like live right
there, so it's like I don't needto like live right at the club,
like I don't need to be likebehind the gate, like is that a
(14:51):
shift that you're seeing?
Like is that part of it?
Or like where?
Like do you have any more intelor data on like the the why
behind that?
Speaker 2 (14:59):
yeah, it's.
It's really kind of funny thethe, the intel that we have on
it just by asking consumers whydon't you want to live in a club
?
And our average consumer islike 58 years old, 59, um, it's
funny there.
You know, everyone's seenSeinfeld and Del Boca Vista and
where Jerry's parents live andthat's what they think that it
(15:20):
is Like.
It's all these old peoplesitting around a board.
To your point.
You know earlier writing nastygrams because you left your car
parked in the street overnightor the recycling bins out.
So that's the perception a lotof people have and they just
don't want to be part of that.
I want to be near shopping anddining, etc.
(15:40):
But then you have the otherspectrum, or other side of the
spectrum of people that aresaying, no, I want to live
inside the gates of the golfcommunity because I want to go
to the clubhouse, have somecocktails and drive my golf cart
back and not be out on the road.
And so there's differentreasonings for both sides of why
they either do or don't want tolive in there, but they're very
(16:03):
simple ones.
There's nothing major, there'snothing financial or anything
like that.
Yeah.
So, yeah, you wouldn't.
I don't think you'd last longin del boca vista, I feel like
you'd get excommunicated.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah how do you, how do you get clubs?
So I still think there's a alot of clubs that separate real
estate and membership in theirminds.
Uh, and just because you knowsome clubs don't have it, just
you know maybe immediately,immediately, right right there,
or you know whatever theirecosystem is, but like, how do
(16:40):
you get them to think morelinked?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
well, um, honestly, you know platforms like ours
with gln.
It gives them the opportunityto put homes are for sale in the
club on there so that whenconsumers are looking, we know
that 90% of consumers arecombining a search with club and
home.
So let's showcase it and putthose homes on there.
(17:06):
And that's just one way ofsubtly getting involved in that
space of the industry.
The other is just to have abrokerage on site, give them an
office, and it doesn't mean thatthe club has to get any sort of
compensation for part of thecommissions.
I've seen models where a clubwill give a broker an office
(17:29):
space and they're there with ateam of two or three for the
year.
And that broker needs to be inevery board meeting, needs to be
at every member event, justlike the head pro is and the
chef, to really be engaged withthe membership so that the
members use them when they sell.
And that's a way for the clubthen to control who's buying it
(17:49):
there or at least manage it.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And by that you mean having not having anybody in
every.
You know everybody and theirgrandmother being able to sell
in in your community.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And this is very like specific type of club also.
But yeah, no that that that issmart Cause I'm sure there are
clubs that just let anybody andeverybody come through.
It's just like, oh boy here wego.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Who's this Right?
Right, yeah, especially thequote unquote bundled
communities where you buy a homeand you're an automatic member.
They rely on the local realestate community to bring people
in there, and so is that a goodmodel.
I think it's done okay for themfor the last 20 years, 30 years
, but for the future I think youreally want people in there.
They're right for the culture.
This saves so much aggravationand you know, no club wants a
(18:44):
group of members that are nothappy, and you can.
If that's a way to avoid it,then certainly you should try to
.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So if, uh, if a club is in oneof these more bearish markets
right now, what are they, orwhat should they be doing
differently than they were, say,a year ago today?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
um, definitely keeping an eye on, you know the
homes are for sale in theircommunity or for directly around
it, because that's reallydictating how many people are
leaving and watching thatattrition rate or resignation
list.
It wouldn't surprise me at allif there's some clubs that have
an attrition rate that's 12% to15% this year, because I think
(19:31):
we talked about this in the pastbut my theory has always been
that the average attrition ratefor a club is eight to 10% a
year pre-COVID.
So in 2020, the 82-year-oldsaid, all right, we're going to
resign for natural reasons,downsides move whatever COVID
hits and it's like, okay, we'renot going to resign now, let's
(19:53):
keep what we have and getthrough this.
Well, here we are four yearslater.
That's why attrition dropped to3% to 4% over the last several
years.
Now that we're past it, that now86-year-old says, okay, we're
out now Home's going on themarket, going to resign for the
club.
And so you're coupling thatwith the natural attrition that
occurs the 8% to 10% a year.
(20:14):
Some clubs could be in a realpickle this year and we're
seeing it.
Club benchmarking is kind ofpredicting it as well.
Of the club should be on alertthat you could see, you know a
higher increase in peopleleaving, yeah, which, again,
it's not necessarily a bad thingbecause it reinvigorates the
(20:35):
membership with new members andnew capital coming in, etc.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
It's just the clubs have to have that Melissa Hansen
marketing plan in place to makesure that they're exposed to
the marketplace as people arelooking.
What's the first steps to that?
So you know you're, you're a gm, you're a membership director,
you know it's something thatthey, what's something they can
do this week, next week or assoon as possible to kind of
prepare and start for the shiftand like moving that or moving
their needle forward.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I think they definitely have to have plans
for some sort of marketingapproach.
It doesn't have to be massivecampaigns, but plugging into
environments like ours, orworking with Ed Heil and
Storyteller and that group, orMelissa Hansen, just for
consulting on social media andhow the club can tastefully
(21:29):
promote or advertise what theyhave without building a
billboard saying but join here.
So all of those things I thinkare really, really important to
get back in front of, because wehave I'm speaking just kind of
about the Sunbelt and, and youknow, the average buyer is 58 to
six years old we have roughlyfive to six years left of baby
(21:52):
boomers.
Um, retiring every day is 13000 people a day retire, so
that's going to last for aboutfive to six years.
Well then, you're entering genx and you know our generation.
So, um, is the club going toprepare for that?
And you have to start now forsure, because the baby boomer
run is going to slow.
We're more than halfway throughit.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, that's a big thing to start
thinking about.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Oh yeah and that's a whole conversation on its own
that clubs are starting toposture for.
It's like, okay, what amenitiescan we buy or build to compete
with everyone else?
And I don't think that there isanything specific.
I think that clubs are going tostart to shift to more service
oriented amenities detailingyour car, dry cleaning, daycare,
(22:43):
business centers.
That's what it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
You know, I'm, I'm surprised that's not more of a
thing it is a little your neckof the woods.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I think that a lot of the the private clubs offers
things some smaller things likethat, but not in the the sunbelt
at all.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Interesting all about the pool and the pickleball neo
big, expensive amenities yeahto me like it's like little
things, like knowing that if Ido x, y and and Z on Tuesdays I
always have lunch, I always dothis, I always play that, but
man, just when I drop my car off, oh, it's also going to get
detailed.
Or like the weekly, that's justlike little things.
(23:29):
And service value ads, I thinkcan just enhance the top bottom
lines or even just the memberexperience, just knowing your
people well and just havingthose different services and
offerings.
I mean I'm even working on anepisode, total, like pivot, you
know, total side quest.
But like I'm surprised moreclubs and maybe they do, it's
(23:50):
just not talked about but atleast from the people I talk to
it's not.
But like more liketransportation services for the
older members of just you know,a car just handling, making sure
the flight, the IT, because alot of them, you know it's a
pain in the butt to travelnowadays and it's a lot.
It's a lot and, like you know,getting there and arriving and
picking up and all that's allvery stressful.
(24:10):
So I think that's just evengoing to like a bigger city is
driving it.
I think that's like a, like atapped or untapped little like
thing.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, no, I think that that's the wave of the
private club future.
For sure, Stuff like that, um,especially with more virtual
jobs or people who are in theirforties, can live in Naples and
work, you know, and still be amember of the club.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, are there any clubs you've seen that are just
nailing it?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, are there any clubs you've seen that are just
nailing it?
Yeah, I mean, uh, the, the onesthat are really, really focused
on, um, the culture of the club.
So our data is still to thisday.
The friendly culture of theclub is the number one
motivating factor as to whatpeople are looking for in their
ideal club, and it drives mebananas.
I'll go to a private clubwebsite and it shows empty
(25:02):
dining rooms in this emptypractice facility, and I know
it's hard to stage a picture ofmembers, but you gotta have
people smiling and happiness andlaughter, cause that's what
people are looking for.
It's not about the signaturehole anymore.
It's that it's having a realestate presence on the website,
(25:24):
whether it's a portal.
The show homes for sale and theamenities Highlight them.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Any upcoming amenities or any amenities that
you're seeing is, like, anythingunique you see coming to light
more.
Is there something you're likeoh, I didn't see that coming.
Or, you know, I thinkpickleball, like you know,
probably padel at this point,but is there any like unique
stuff?
Like I don't know if this wouldbe considered an amenity, but
(25:53):
like I know a couple clubs arereally killing it with sound
bath and like that sort of thing.
So I guess it's more of justlike a feature, but like, are
you seeing any unique amenitiesthat you're like, oh, that's
something to be on the lookoutfor.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, there's a lot of, again service-based things
like that Cold plunges, thegardening at the clubs where
members can, you know, growtheir own farm to table food.
There's a club in texas I can'tthink of it now.
(26:24):
They have got a whole likeeducation program so they've got
, obviously, members who areexperts in their fields, whether
it's accounting or legal,whatever.
They've got a whole serieswhere you could take classes as
a member at night to learn thesespecific skills and I guess
it's just sold out Like everyevery class is full, it's
cooking, you know all thesethings.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So isn't that like the point of the club is to like
meet and engage in, like bewith your people, so like that's
just genius, it's great, ityeah, it's it's so simple.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It's just a matter of building it and, you know,
managing it to a degree.
Yeah, a club is a group oflike-minded individuals, you
know, who are focused on thesame thing, and that's what a
golf club and course is, youknow.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, are there any underrated markets or regions
for private club growth Right?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Right now that's a good question.
I for private club growth.
Right now that's a goodquestion.
I don't know if there'snecessarily underrated.
I know that consumers haveshifted gears over the last
couple of years because somemarkets are just sold out.
So, like Scottsdale is sold out, so let's go look at Tucson or
Flagstaff.
Same thing here in NaplesPeople are like okay, let's go
(27:37):
look at Sarasota and Venice.
We hear Tampa has some reallygood clubs, we're going to look
up there.
So yeah, all those second tiermarkets if you will have,
definitely, and does that affectand change the initiation fees?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
and things of that nature.
Should it Does it?
Should they just keep on track,like what's that lay of the
(28:13):
land to you, if anything thatyou've seen?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, no, it's a big question.
We did a conference a couplemonths ago where there's a lot
of general managers in there andthey were wondering did we get
too aggressive on initiationfees?
And the answer is no.
I mean, a lot of them, you know, had supply and demand Right,
so why not increase initiationfees?
I don't think they're going togo backwards.
That's a tough decision to makeas a board president to reduce
the initiation fee when someonejust bought one for, you know, a
hundred K and you're droppingto 50 K.
(28:46):
So I think that'll hold strongit's.
I think that clubs might justhave to get a little bit more
aggressive value, you know,delivery of services and just to
make it, you know, to theconsumer it's okay and I
understand we're at the higherlevel of the market with a
hundred thousand dollarmembership.
(29:06):
But this is what you're going toget here and this is the kind
of, you know, leadership that wehave and services and amenities
, so that way they can keepselling, if you will and then
without ever having it decreasetheir membership or initiation,
because that's something I knowclub wants to do.
Yeah no I've lived through that,actually that they, post the
(29:28):
great recession, the club thatwas at before the 2008 was
charging 110 000 to be a memberthere.
Just after the recession, youcould get into that club for
$15,000.
And so you can imagine the$100,000 members were just
beside themselves.
But then you also have twocultures of people that are much
(29:52):
different, and so expectationsare different.
Oh my goodness, and that wasfor clubs.
We were not rare.
That was for a lot of clubs.
Oh my goodness, and that wasfor clubs.
We were not rare for a lot ofclubs.
Wow, yeah, but I don't see thathappening in this scenario.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, no, that's a well and and it's okay to not
have a wait list and to justmaintain your, maintain your
ground, like that's okay, be whoyou are, that's what a club is,
and put on your sales hat andyou're.
Every club is not for everyperson, and right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
no, that's what's fun about marketing.
And I mean we know that 60 ofnew members come from existing
members.
So work with your folks thatget their friends of friends and
then focus on that 40.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
You know doing, you know sophisticated marketing
allowing more events for peopleto bring their guests and doing
more of that, yeah so that's,you know, I would have been, I,
I could, I can be in bothpeople's shoes, like I could
(30:58):
imagine being the person whojust paid a hundred, looking at
the person who just paid 15.
And I can, like I can just feelthe tension in both sides.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, it was.
It was stressful.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
So it actually dropped right just from a
hundred to 15 grand.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Literally within a year.
Yeah, yeah it was very tough tomanage and it was a club where
there was no tea times so youhad both groups to get out at
once and you know conflict.
Um, our leadership team managedit great.
I mean they, they, they wereout in front of it but they club
(31:38):
owner had to do what he had todo to keep news you know I'm
good, I I understand all sides,but man, oh yeah, tough one, wow
, wow yeah, hopefully we'llnever go back to those dark days
.
No, I don't know some might,some might, oh sure yeah, um
(32:06):
clubs that don't have goodleadership and you know they
definitely could get themselvesinto a pickle mr becca, thank
you so much for coming on.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Really appreciate you sharing uh.
People want to learn more aboutyou and how you can help their
club.
Where do they go?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
GolfLifeNavigatorscom .
And that's it.
We're a spoke in the wheel forthe marketing effort.
Plug in.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
Want to learn more about myself?
Head on over to DennyCorbycom.
Want to learn more aboutmanagement in motion?
Over to dennycorbycom.
Want to learn more aboutmanagement in motion?
Head over toprivateclubradiocom.
Slash mim and make sure yousign up for our newsletter over
on privateclubradiocom.
That's this episode.
I'm your host, Denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
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