In this episode of Private Club Radio, we chat with Rollie Carlson,
Managing Director of the Upper Midwest CMAA Chapter and a longtime leader in the private club industry.
With a career spanning from senior-level retail marketing to general management at top clubs, Rollie brings a rare mix of operational insight, people-first leadership, and a deep passion for mentorship.
We talk what makes a great club professional, not just in skills, but in mindset.
Rollie shares lessons from his time with American Golf Corporation, his years running Hudson Golf Club and St. Cloud Country Club, and how he’s spent the past decade growing one of CMAA’s most respected regional chapters.
Key themes include:
- Why “yes” should always be your starting point
- The biggest career mistake young professionals make
- How to build trust across teams and generations
- And why Rollie’s “management by wandering around” philosophy still works
You’ll also hear powerful insights on work-life synergy, creating culture from the ground up, and how to spot (and be) a great mentee.
Whether you’re a student, a mid-level manager, or a seasoned GM, this episode is full of real-world wisdom and practical leadership takeaways—delivered with warmth, wit, and Rollie’s signature sincerity.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show place.
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am joined byone of the most respected,
genuinely beloved figures in theclub space.
He's the guy who makes you feellike you belong.
The second you meet him, I amchatting with none other than
Raleigh Carlson.
He's been in the game fordecades, from retail and
(00:41):
marketing to regional operationswith American Golf to leading
private clubs in Wisconsin andMinnesota, and for the last 14
years he's been the beatingheart and managing director
behind the Upper Midwest CMAAchapter.
I first got to work withRaleigh and meet him as I was
emceeing and getting ready forthe Midwest Regional Educational
(01:01):
Forum with him and KathyCollins, and it was amazing
watching Raleigh do what he doesbest, which is make every
single person that he comes incontact with, feel welcomed,
valued and inspired to lead withpurpose.
So in this episode we talkabout him and his career and we
get into some big topics frommentorship to the danger of
(01:22):
chasing money over a mission andhow to build a career that
doesn't just grow but also givesback.
We also touch on the biggestmistakes people make when
changing jobs and we also talkabout the biggest mistakes
people make when changing jobs.
What makes somebody coachableand how and why helping others
without needing the creditsomehow gets you all the credit.
(01:44):
It's amazing.
I am so psyched and stoked likestokeded Now.
I'm very excited for thisepisode and cannot wait for you
guys to dive in.
But before we do, I just wantto give you a quick update If
you haven't heard about alreadya little fun management event I
am doing the end of September inMonticello, new York, at the
(02:07):
Monticello Motor Club.
It is going to be such anamazing time Management in
motion, racing, drifting,auto-axing, high-speed laps, but
also learning and gettingeducation from other GMs in the
(02:27):
space who spend time on thetrack and how that relates to
leadership and management andwhat we all do at clubs every
single day.
I am so excited for this If youwant to learn more, head on
over to privateclubradiocom.
Slash management in motion orjust privateclubradiocom slash
mim dot com.
Slash management in motion orjust private club radio dot com
slash mim.
It's affordable, it'sinexpensive and we are going to
(02:48):
have absolutely such an amazingtime.
Great people, great networking,great education, great fun,
great food and I know the guestlist so far.
It is packed with some reallyfun people from all over the
country.
We are limiting it to 50 spotsand there's over 30 taken so far
, so not too many left.
(03:09):
Make sure you register as well.
I just want to give a big thanksto all of our show partners
here on Private Club Radio.
It means the absolute world.
You're going to hear about themthroughout the ads and
throughout the episodes.
If you're in the market orlooking to learn a little bit
more about them, please hit themup and let them know that
you're reaching out because ofPrivate Club Radio.
Enough about all that.
Let's get to the episode.
Private Club Radio listeners,let's welcome to the show.
(03:31):
Raleigh Carlson, how are thingsin your world?
Where is Homebase for you again?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Homebase is a northwest Minneapolis suburb,
Twin City area suburb by thename of Maple Grove, Minnesota,
and we finally got a littlerelief from the scorching heat
the last three days.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
See, we finally are just getting heat here, like
we're just getting warm.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
We send it to you with our love, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Is that where you're born and raised?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, I grew up in Minnesota, lived in Denver for
15 years, came back to MinnesotaTwin City area in 2002.
Got you Because there was onegrandchild then and we assumed
there would be more, and now wehave five.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Wow, popping them out .
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, well, they range in age from 14 to 24.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
That's a fun age is.
It is the older they get, thebetter it is to engage with them
.
Yeah, do you get to see?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
them often.
Oh yeah, we do they.
They live fairly.
They live fairly close, so,yeah, we do get to see them
often that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Are any of them future club people?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't think they're going to be future club people.
A couple of them have, uh haveworked in hospitality.
In fact, uh, our middle son,chad's wife nicole, used to work
for me at the hudson golf clubin hudson, wisconsin, and that's
how they met.
Oh, no way, oh yeah, so seethat the club thing just keeps
(05:05):
coming back around.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah.
And now, how did you get intothe club space?
How did you find your way in?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I found my way into clubs when we were living in
Denver in the early 90s.
I went to work for AmericanGolf Corporation and at that
time American golf corporationwas the largest golf management
company well, at least theunited states, they alleged the
world.
But the united states and umstarted out working for them and
(05:34):
, in specific clubs, end upbeing the regional director
responsible for all of americangolf's private and daily fee
properties in Colorado and NewMexico.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Interesting.
And then what got you toexecutive director now?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
What was the rest of your career path like?
Well, I joined CMA in 2003 whenI was a general manager of the
Hudson Wisconsin Golf Club.
And when I was with AmericanGolf, they wouldn't support us
joining CMA because, you know,all of the programs within
American Golf to run the coursesand so on and so forth are, I
(06:15):
wouldn't say, proprietary, butthey're of their own birth and
so American Golf kind of sort ofdidn't want any outside
influence in the operations ofour properties.
But when we moved back here andended up at the Hudson Golf
Club, I ended up connecting witha longtime chapter member by
the name of Dick Haugen, who hassince retired, and he got me
(06:38):
involved.
And so here we are.
I was president of the chapterin 2010.
We are.
I was president of the chapterin 2010.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And when I retired in 2013, they asked me to be the
managing director.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
And I said, well, of course.
So yeah, been involved for along time.
It's a great opportunity tostay connected in our industry
and also another greatopportunity is to work with and
encourage young peopleinterested in hospitality to
consider entering the club world.
And we do a lot of that withthere in CMEA land.
(07:16):
There are a number of CMEAstudent chapters and our chapter
and Kathy Collins, who managesthe Wisconsin Badger chapter,
were the senior chapters for UWStout in Menominee, wisconsin,
for their CMEA chapter.
So we work closely with them.
We financially support the clubmanagement course in their
(07:37):
hospitality program in the fallsemester and I wouldn't say
we're recruiting, but by thetime they start the club
management class right afterLabor Day and finish after
Thanksgiving they know a gooddeal about the industry and a
good number of them end up goinginto the club industry.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
They are speaking fluent Clubbanese.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, they are.
Well, we involve them.
You know they get to, they getto meet.
You know of the 12 or 13Mondays in the fall semester,
depending on when Thanksgivingis, nine or 10 of those Monday
classes are.
I personally don't conduct allof them, but are conducted by
CMA members, whether they'relocal chapter members or
(08:22):
connected to CMA on a regionalbasis or even a national basis.
So we do a lot to really pullback the curtain on the club
industry for these students andthe maximum enrollment for those
classes is 30, and it's beenfull with a waiting list the
last three years.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Heck, yeah, yeah.
What sort of things do youthink that they are surprised by
when you quote unquote pullback the curtain, like.
What do you think is like thecommon misconception from
students to clubs?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I wouldn't call it a misconception.
The vast majority, if not allof the students in the class
really don't have a sense orvision or understanding of what
clubs are.
But as we go through the classand Kathy and I conduct a class
early in the semester to kind ofpull back the curtain and tell
them all about clubs, and so wego around the room and have
(09:17):
everybody tell us who they are,where they're from, why they're
here and what they want to do inhospitality.
And when they get all done andthey want to do any number of
things in hospitality when theyget all done, we tell them you
know what you can do any one ofthose or all of those in clubs,
and it's easier.
And the reason it's easier isbecause your customers are the
members and they're nottransient, and no disrespect to
(09:39):
restaurants or hotels or youknow, any other hospitality
venues, but their eyes light upwhen they hear that.
The fact that the people thatthey're going to be engaging
with if they go in clubs are nottransient.
They're the members and for themost part it leads to great
engagements.
If you know and understand them, the members themselves, then
(10:01):
in a lot of cases, if you payattention, you can actually
anticipate their needs.
And that goes a long way toconnecting.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Well, I think on the flip side, because there's
probably maybe some kids orpeople or personalities, whoever
who want more of that transient.
Maybe they don't want to be asin the relationship, they like
more of the hotel stuff.
So it also helps self-filterand find the right people, the
right kind of hotel stuff.
So it also helps self-filterand find the right people, the
right kind of.
I think it does take a certainpersonality, a certain person to
(10:32):
really lead in the club space.
There's many different areas inthe club space, but to really
lead and be a true consummateclub professional, I think it's
definitely a certain personality.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, that's definitely true, denny.
Some of the things that we tellthem when Kathy and I are in
that first meeting with them, isthat wherever you go, you want
to be involved in the initialsteps of your career, where
there's potentially a goodtraining program so you can
learn and grow.
And we tell them flat out thebest training programs within
(11:07):
the entire hospitality industryare hotels.
They really have excellenttraining programs and we always
point out for an example and useMarriott or Hilton as examples
Wonderful, wonderful trainingprograms to help you develop, as
examples, wonderful, wonderfultraining programs to help you
develop.
But we do tell them, if yousucceed in hotels and you begin
(11:28):
to grow, you almost don't get tounpack your suitcase, because
if you're good in hotels, theywill move you along, and it's a
relative statement, but move youalong at a fairly rapid pace
Doesn't mean it's not a goodcareer, but we just share with
them.
You know that that's that'syou're going to.
You're going to be real mobileif you end up deciding to stay
(11:50):
in the hotel industry and keepgoing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah, and you've had quite, a you know,
unique background that includesboth ops and marketing.
How do you think that hasshaped?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
how you've led and kind of coached and mentored
others over the years.
Well, because it provides apretty broad horizon to what you
can do in clubs.
It helps me tap into what thereal hot buttons or interest
areas are with individuals andclubs, and not that I tell them
how to do it or what to do, butI can share examples of
(12:28):
experiences that help lead to agrowth career from that
standpoint.
And when it comes right down toit, this is the people business
and whether you're on themember side or the club
management side, it's the peoplebusiness.
The club management side it'sthe people business and if you
understand that, then it's easyand it's it's frankly, it's more
(12:52):
fun because and not everybodyyou connect with in clubs, as
far as members are concerned,are welcoming or interesting to,
to spend some time with, butit's the people business and
once, if you like people, thisis a great industry for us.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
If you like people, this is a great industry for us.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, Is there, you know kind of still on the
(13:31):
younger managers, or even justlike the younger professional
side?
Is there something, because youhave your ear to the ground
with them, is there anythingthat you know they maybe need to
hear right now that they don'twant to hear?
Is there any like common thingsthat are popping up, that or
trends that maybe need to stop?
Or that's a good.
That's a good, that's a goodquestion, because there's a
couple of things.
First of all, one of the thingsthat we help them understand
and hopefully they'll becomfortable with is to put
themselves out there.
In other words, you know, beopen, be conversant, smile,
engage with the members.
The key word in the clubbusiness today and with respect
(13:53):
to members is the experience,the word experience, and so, no
matter what level you are in amanagement career in a club, in
whatever area of the club, youplay, to varying degrees, a a
key role in the in, in providingthat experience and, um, you
know.
So we tell them, don't beafraid to put yourself out there
.
Um, we, you know.
(14:14):
We tell them various things,and I'm always kidded about this
because I always tell them.
I'll tell you what my motheralways told me you have two ears
and one mouth.
Make sure you use them in thatorder.
And when you engage with membersas a club, as part of the staff
of the club, you should don'thear what they say, listen to
(14:36):
what they say.
So if you're, you know,encountering a conversation that
maybe a member has not had areal good experience or doesn't
like something about the club,and again, no matter what you
level at, make sure you clearlyunderstand what they are trying
to bring to your attention andthen read it back to them to
make sure you have it.
And there's one word that can'tbe in a vocabulary when you're
(15:00):
in the club business, and thatword is no.
Never say no.
In most all cases, no matterwhat the club member is looking
for or sharing with you, find apath to yes, whether it's in
totality or various pieces of it, clear articulation and
engaging with members.
It's invaluable and the membersreally appreciate that too.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, you know I'm in the camp of going for.
Yes, I know there's otherpeople who have a, you know a
different point of view, whichis totally fine, but to me I
always love going for.
Like oh my, yes, of course wecan.
It's going to have to.
You know it's going to cost amillion, it's going to.
You know there's always a.
But there of course we can doit.
(15:46):
Yeah, it's going to have to.
You know it's going to cost amillion, it's going to.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know there's always a but there, of course we
can do it.
Yeah, of course we can totallydo that.
Yeah, Well, but that's not.
But you're not, you're not offtarget at all, because when you
get, when you get theconversation engaged like that,
you can help them as a path toyes, and it may be totally what
they're looking for, or acomponent of they're looking for
, or what we have to do to getto where the member thinks we
(16:08):
ought to go with something yeah,and you and you, you've coached
a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You've you've mentored a lot of people.
What's what, who?
Who's your favorite type ofperson to coach, to mentor, and
what makes somebody coachableand mentorable?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I think it's one key word and it's sincerity.
You know, if you've been arounda long time and I have and you
have you can tell if somebody'ssincere in what they want to
talk about or ask about or tellyou about, and that sincerity
thing is very important.
Once you understand that andthen you work closely with
(16:47):
somebody and you're on a youknow you're on a with your staff
members.
At least, my orientation wasthree priorities, in this order
member satisfaction or, excuseme, co-worker satisfaction.
Member satisfaction and thenmake your financial goals.
Because if you provide a good,safe, clean workplace that's
(17:07):
free of any harassment oranything from anybody and work
closely with your coworkerswhether it's a job or a career
and help them grow or succeed orfeel good about it, then that's
going to show through to themember experience.
And if you get those two right,you have an awfully good
opportunity to make yourfinancial goals.
And if you get those two right,you have an awfully good
opportunity to make yourfinancial goals.
(17:28):
But if you get those first twoturned around and don't have
coworker satisfaction number one, that's going to show through
to the members as well and thenyou've got a real challenge in
taking good care of your membersafter you've tried to take good
care of your coworkers.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, your, your vibe attracts your tribe.
That's good, Well put yeah, andhere here's a.
Here's a second one for you.
Be more interested thaninteresting.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That's right.
I like that one, that's rightand there and there's there's.
You know there's a therethere's.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
you know there's a subtext to that, and that is
you're not in a club, no matterwhat level you're serving as an
employee, to have the lightshine on you, and you don't want
to do that because members willsee through that right away and
it doesn't work Well, and Ithink you know to get
metaphorical I think is theright word is like when you
(18:23):
shine enough light on the peoplearound you, it brightens you in
different ways, like you'restill visible, you're still
there, you know, and it you know, the the older I get to, the
more it's like, the more youhelp others, and I think I don't
know if it's a Jim Rohn quoteor who you know who knows Brian
Tracy, but it's like you know,if you help enough people
achieve their goals, you'llachieve yours.
(18:45):
Like, so just the more you justhelp and put the spotlight in
front of other people.
It just comes back on youmultiple times over.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, you know, the best part, the most fun about
managing clubs and this appliesto me too, being the managing
director of a CMA chapter, andthis applies to me, too, being
the managing director of a CMEAchapter the best part about it
is helping people understand howto get to where they want to go
.
And I used to do one thing inclubs all the time, and I did it
(19:18):
every single morning, and Icalled it MBWA and it was
management by wandering around.
And you know, if you know yourco-workers' first names, and
before shift starts or whateverthe case may be, if you're just
present, you walk around and sayyou know, hi, bob, how you
doing, hi, denny, how's things,how's your son?
(19:39):
I understand he's playinghockey, or whatever the case may
be.
If you're just present, youwalk around and say you know, hi
, bob, how you doing, hi, denny,how's things, How's your son?
I understand he's playinghockey or whatever.
That way and do it sincerely.
That way is.
I mean, that's a pretty obviousway of showing that your
coworkers, you really do careabout them.
And you know the old sayingabout you know my door's always
open.
You know to come into my office.
The the the point.
(19:59):
The other point to that is ifyou develop that relationship,
then you're always open to themand they can come to you with
questions.
Now, if they come to you withquestions or challenges within a
department and you're the GM orthe AGM, you want to.
You want to understand whatthey tell you, but you don't
step on the toes of their boss,you know another supervisor,
(20:21):
point them in the rightdirection and then just
understand and see what happenswith it.
I mean, to me that's justcommon sense.
It's absolutely common sense totreat your co-workers that way
it's absolutely common sense totreat your co-workers that way.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, when it comes to mentors, mentees, what about
on the flip side is what can orwhat are some traits or
attributes or what are some waysthat a young person can look up
to or ask somebody like howdoes that relationship start
between mentor, mentoree and?
And what about if it's not eventhe person that they directly
work with?
So let's just say it's somebodythat they just admire from a
(21:00):
different club or whatever.
How do you start thatconnection, that relationship?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, there's a couple of ways to do it.
The first way is it doesn'tmatter what management position
you're in a club.
As I've said before, get toknow your people.
You don't have to know themintimately, but get to know them
to the point where, hopefully,they're comfortable coming to
you and saying so and so andsuch and such and the other you
(21:28):
know.
The other part of it you knowwithin, and I'll take it to
within our chapter.
It to within our chapter,within our chapter.
As a managing director, youdevelop various depths in the
relationships of all of yourmembers.
But if they believe what yousay and you're honest and
legitimate, then if they have aquestion or an issue, they'll
(21:49):
come to you.
It might be a question aboutsomething in club management
where could I go?
In other words, from step twoto step three or as they go
through their career.
Answer it based on what youknow.
And if you don't actually knowthe specific answer or want to
get something to them, tell themlet me find that out for sure
(22:16):
and let me get back to you.
Live up to what you say.
If you say you're going to getback to him, don't run into him
a week later and say oh yeah,that's right, I owe you an
answer.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You know, what's really funny is I was just
chatting with a GM today.
He's a longtime client, friend,just a good person, and I say
phone tag.
He's been meaning to call meback for a while now and he
thoroughly apologized today.
It's so weird that you justbrought that up because he made
it a point to say no, like I'vebeen trying to instill in myself
(22:45):
and my team, if somebody getsback to you within 24 hours,
like you, you get them some sortof response.
It might not be the the onethat everybody wants.
It might say, hey, I need somemore time, but like you, have to
within 24 hours.
So he's like I, he's like I.
Am very sorry, it's just soweird how you just brought that
up.
That's so weird.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And then the timely response is important.
You know, do what you say, whatyou're going to do when you say
you're going to do it, and thendo it.
If it's simply as simple as aPost-it note on your desk or
somewhere that says you know,make sure you hook up with Denny
at 2 o'clock on this Monday.
If it's just a quick answer orI'm not done yet, I'll get back
to you.
At least you didn't leave anydoubt in the mind of the
(23:44):
recipient that you were workingon or understood what they
wanted.
Again, it's common sense, butit's very, very simple to do it.
You can have a Post-it note.
You can write it on your hand.
Everybody's got a mobile phone,you have a calendar in there,
that'll, that'll, that'll dingand give you a notice of
something, and it's okay, justhave it right there, because
when you get mired in theday-to-day activity and the
minutiae and the dynamics, ifyou don't have a small reminder
(24:08):
somewhere to tell you, it's easyto get by it.
And then how do you feel anhour or two later when you were
supposed to connect withsomebody?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
yeah, but then again, the apology is very important
yeah, is that you've you're youget to see and deal and hear
with like a lot in the in theindustry, probably more than the
average person, just as for howmuch that that you do is there?
Are there any career mistakes?
You see over and over againthat maybe people, if they, you
(24:35):
know, took an extra second tomaybe think about or just wait,
you know, is there anything thatyou just see?
Maybe people make you know alittle misstep?
I think, even though it's alllearning curves, you know it's
all learning.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But I think I think the one that I see the most is
changing jobs from one club toanother and just making the move
for money.
It's not about the money andyou know, in our chapter in
Minnesota North South Dakota,part of Wisconsin the networking
component of our chaptermembers is very strong Because
(25:08):
in our business there's nosecrets.
Everybody knows what everyother club is doing.
I mean it's not like a secretstrategy or anything.
Everybody knows whateverybody's doing, whether it's
a club that's four miles fromyou or a club across town.
But the whole point is,especially in a position of a
managing director, you have apretty good, you have pretty
(25:30):
good insight into most, all ofthe clubs in your chapter and
how they operate or whatever.
Now, I mean you're not, youmight know some sensitive
information.
You don't share that.
But if you develop that trustlevel with your, with your
chapter members, and a chaptermember wants to go from club A
(25:50):
to club B and they call you andsay they call me and say Raleigh
, what do you think about club B?
And I and I don't, you know Idon't, I don and say they call
me and say Raleigh, what do youthink about Club B?
And I don't say, well, youdon't want to work there.
But I do tell them is that allright if you're going to go from
Club A to Club B and Club B?
Make sure you know all of thesethings A, b, c, d, e because
(26:12):
that could lead them to findthose things out.
It would be unprofessional ofme to share some of the
behind-the-scenes things that Iknow, but I want to point them
in the direction of make sureyou know these things before you
get ready.
But the biggest mistake theymake is making a move just for
the money.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, how do you help them balance that when money is
important?
When money is important, youknow, like, let's just say that
that big pay bump is, you know,hey, like how do you try to
guide somebody when you knowthat's a big?
You know, for what?
You know I'm trying to think oflike not devil's advocate, but
(26:49):
you know, sometimes it's alllike oh yeah, like that's great,
but like what about that person, that club professional, who's
you know, has maybe a new kit orsomething, whatever it is.
But they're like, hey, thatextra bump, that 5, 10, 15, 20
grand, however much, that's likegame changing for them.
How do you help them balance?
Or?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
well and it goes back to what I said earlier too,
danny is to to.
If you just chase the money,then you just basically make a
decision based on the money.
But if you've been offered theposition or you're like in
presumably the second to lastinterview, you should have those
(27:31):
questions ready and you cantell if you're paying attention.
You can tell if the recipientof your question is shooting the
moon, so to speak, or givingyou an honest answer, and even
an honest answer of saying, okay, we have a significant
challenge in this area of theclub and here's what we're doing
(27:51):
to try and solve it.
And that person might come backto you and ask you how would
you solve it?
But if you get into thatsincere conversation where you
feel confident that theiranswers are honest, that'll help
you make the decision.
And, by the way, even whenpeople do that, even when people
(28:12):
do that in a small number ofcases it doesn't work.
And the reason it doesn't work,when all is said and done, is
there ended up being apersonality conflict somewhere
in the management organizationand it might likely have
precluded that individual thatwent there to do their job
correctly, and it happens.
(28:33):
I mean it happens, but that'sas far as you can go to prepare
them to make the right decision.
You know, and the old sayings,like you know, the grass is
always greener on the other sideof the fence or all that
glitters is gold.
You just have to throw thosethings out for them to think
(28:53):
about it, because in alllikelihood they probably haven't
given it much thought, becausethey already have stars in their
eyes about this number.
I mean, it's other things youhave to do and there's a there's
a it's kind of a time worncliche or saying in today's
business world is work lifebalance?
(29:14):
I'm not so sure I like the wordbalance as opposed to work-life
synergy.
Now, if you're in the part ofthe world like we are in
Minnesota, there's a significantbell curve from a seasonality
standpoint.
So from, I'll say, from May 1stto the end of October, but
(29:34):
especially May, june and July,or June, july and August, you
know it's, you know everything'son deck, because that's the
peak of the season In that partof the country.
You have more time in the offseasons or the shoulder seasons
to have a little more personaltime, whether it's family time
or whatever the case may be.
So you have to try and figureout or understand that when
(29:58):
you're interviewing for thatposition, in other words, what
the expectations are and what'shappened in our business in the
last four or five years, is thatif a club, if a club, five, six
years ago had two food andbeverage managers, today they
have three or four, because thatyoung generation coming up,
(30:19):
it's not a soft work ethic thatthey have, but their mindset and
their expectation is, yeah,maybe 50 hours a week.
You know, a number of years agoit was 60 or 70 or you know,
until you fainted, went home,rested and came back.
But it's a generationalunderstanding that has to be
there.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, for me, genuinely it seems like love,
just helping others, helpingothers move forward.
Where does that come from?
Like was that?
Were you always that way?
Where does does that come from?
Like is that?
Was that, were you always thatway?
Was like where?
Where does all that come from?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, to a large degree it's always been that way
because my mom and dadinstilled it in me and I would
suggest when I was a lot youngerI wasn't listening real clearly
.
But my, my dad was a chamber ofCommerce executive for 40 or 50
years and so you know obviouslya member-oriented business, so
to speak.
(31:21):
But I watched a lot from thesidelines growing up and how my
dad you know how my dadinteracted and carried himself
in the Chamber of Commercebusiness.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Because it's.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I mean you're that visible business, because it's.
I mean you're that visible,it's, it's, it's, it's.
The visibility is on a, on a,on a, on a broader scope than
being the GM as an example of aclub.
But I think I just, just, youknow, just watching my dad and
paying attention and, like Isaid when I was younger, I'd say
wow, what's that?
But you know, it all comes backand my mom was well, she was
(31:56):
the best mom in the world, butas far as I was concerned,
obviously, but I had a closerelationship with my mother, but
just watching my dad, and then,of course, you know, being
alongside him or with him in mymuch younger days at a chamber
function or something of thatnature you just, if you're
paying attention, you know, ifyou're wide awake and paying
(32:17):
attention, you see things,whether you can define them or
not, that say, I think thatlooks like the right thing to do
.
You might not say it yourselfthat way, but just, you know,
just from that standpoint, and Ihad three or four great mentors
as I was growing up in thebusiness.
And you know, obviously Ihaven't been in the club
(32:38):
business my whole adult life,but, having been in the retail
business for a number of yearsbefore getting into the golf
industry and the club businesshad some great mentors.
They had incredible peopleskills but they didn't like wear
it on their sleeve, if youunderstand what I'm saying.
They were good mentors and theygave you good insights and good
(32:59):
direction and I'm honored toplay that role.
If it's a role I play with thepeople that I engage with,
whether they're studentsthinking about the hospitality
industry or members of ourchapter or CMA people across the
United States One of the greatthings about being being a
managing director of a chapteris you.
(33:21):
You have a lot of goodengagement with other chapters
and other members and you'vebeen to the CMA world conference
so I mean that's the Mecca of,you know, of networking and
education and professionaldevelopment and if you go to as
many of them as I have, you'dhave to be deaf, dumb and blind
not to meet great people and youknow you just develop a
(33:45):
connection that you're going torun into either at the next
world conference or in someother circumstance in the
business.
And you know I mean reallywhat's more fun than engaging
with people that appreciate, youknow, your friendship or
fellowship Because, again, younever know when you might have
to call them up and say, hey, soit's worth a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, yeah, If you can give, if you can give every
maybe CMAA chapter, every CMAmember a challenge to focus on
for the rest of this year, whatwould it be?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Well, I'll talk about what CMA gives them to make
sure they understand it.
And it's education,professional development and
networking, and those are notvertical priorities, they're
horizontal.
So the thought that I wouldshare with them is that
understand the value that youcan capture from all three of
(34:48):
those, of all three of thosetenants of what CMEA is all
about, and take the time, go tothe meetings, go to go to the
world conference or go to yourlocal chapter meetings.
Engage with, engage with otherpeople, because it's amazing how
much you can learn by justhanging out with people that are
in this, in the same industryor vocation that you are.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think a lot it's taking thatextra step, putting in that
little bit of extra work,putting yourself out there
trying to connect with peoplewho you don't know, step outside
your circle a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Well, you have to, and the easy part about it is,
as an example, at CMA, at theWorld Conference, you have this
very large name tag hangingright in front of your body.
And even if you run intosomebody that you might have met
before, all you got to do islook up and see their name tag
and you can address them byfirst name.
But again, you, you, you get achance to build those
(35:46):
relationships.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And you gave me the, you gave me my favorite one runs
with scissors which is not toofar from the truth.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, I mean, how easy is that?
And I'm not so sure I'd sayputting yourself out there.
But when you're in those crowdsor the chapter meetings or
World Conference or whatever theopportunity to say hi to
somebody by their first name andyou're not being not genuine by
doing it, is saying hi, denny,how are you People like that?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
People love their name.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, that's exactly right.
But there's been an interestingevolution over a number of
years in the club industry, andwhat I always tell people that
are either just getting into itor going from club to club, one
of the first things well, whatyou have to do is you have to
figure out how to adapt to thatclub's culture.
(36:51):
If you're a new GM going in,you don't get to set the culture
.
It's been there to learn how toadapt to it.
But one of the first things youwant to a couple, two things
you want to find out Do you wantme to wear a tie or not?
And second of all, should Iaddress the members by first
name or by Mr or Mrs or Ms?
Because that really helps youget off to a good start of
(37:15):
adapting to the culture and justdoing what is expected from a
culture standpoint.
Pretty important stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah.
Is there a small behavior orlike a habit, you think that can
completely change someone'scareer?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, a lot of the things.
Yeah, if they're not willing toengage or a little afraid of it
or intimidated by engaging,they have to do it.
They absolutely have to do it.
And a good way to witness theright kind of engagement if it's
a club coworker and engagingwith members hang out and watch
(37:57):
what other people do that do it.
It's not that difficult.
You know they're not going toask you for your social security
number, so you know you don'thave to be guarded.
But what I've seen is when and Ihad the good fortune of having
some very talented people on mystaff over the years that
weren't quite sure how to engagewith members because they
(38:21):
hadn't come from the clubbusiness and I would always
point out to them because youcould tell, just kind of keeping
an eye on them, you know whenthey get started in whatever
they're doing, you can tell ifthey have, you know, a fluid
feeling for engaging or not, andso you can.
You know you can, just inpassing in the break room or
(38:41):
whatever you can say.
You know you, if you, if youwant to feel more comfortable
engaging with members, keep aneye on Bob and see how he does
it, because it's it, it, it'snot that difficult.
But I, you know, I understandhow young people getting in the
industry can be intimidated orfeel a little intimidated, but
that can also go back.
(39:02):
And maybe this may soundself-serving but that can go
back to when Kathy and I teachthat class at UW-Stout in the
beginning of the semester, sothey see that we're genuine and
approachable.
From that standpoint it's well,you know, I've done it for many
years.
But you need to help.
You need to help people thatneed help in that area, but you
(39:23):
also need to help people thatare too verbose or overbearing,
you know, and you have to findthe right way to, to comfort,
comfort, comfortably tell themhey, turn that down a little bit
.
You know what I mean.
And of course you don't.
You don't do it that way, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Give them a little.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah what I mean and of course you don't.
You don't do it that way.
Yeah, give them a little, yeah,but I mean you, you know, you,
um, I wouldn't say you're onguard, but it's pay attention to
what's going on around you.
It's, it's uh, it's veryimportant, it's very important
to uh to do that, becausethat'll help you grow yeah, was.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Was there anything you wanted to talk about or any
questions you wanted me to askyou?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
No, but I want to tell you something.
I had a nice meet and greetwith a new member of the chapter
.
He's previously been in one ofthe clubs in our chapter and so
we were chatting this morning.
I just want to go out and sayhi and welcome back to the
neighborhood and everything.
And he said well, what's yourday like?
And I said well, I'm going tochat with Danny Corby this
(40:29):
afternoon.
He said isn't that the guy withall the spiked hair?
And I said, if I'm not mistaken, the last couple of years he's
toned it down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I mean the hair.
I'm only talking about the hair.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Well, I mean, come on Now you talk about engaging
with people.
When you were the emcee of ourMidwest Regional Education Forum
, you know between, first of all, so Kathy and I didn't have to
keep running back and forth tothe microphone, but your
friendly demeanor, your comedicattitude and not a bad magician,
by the way, either but you madepeople feel comfortable all the
(41:11):
time and that's why when Kathyfirst reached out to you and
then you and I and Kathy had achance to chat I don't know if
you're a household word, butyou're pretty well known in our
industry but what you created asthe emcee, that also that
created a culture at thatthree-day meeting of everybody's
(41:34):
relaxed and this is friendlyand everybody's welcome Well
done.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Thank you so much for that.
Thanks for doing that on therecord as well.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So I didn't know if there was anything you wanted to
talk about or anything you'reexcited about.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Well, what I'm excited about just is how our
industry has evolved and I'vebeen in the industry for a
little over 20 years but howit's evolved not only well,
first of all, position-wise,cmea changed their name from
Club Managers Association toClub Management Association in
(42:12):
2018.
And the message was or themessage got through to the
leadership at CMA on a nationalbasis that this isn't just for
general managers In themid-management segment where are
the future leaders in ourindustry going to come from?
But from middle managers, andI've seen that evolve and our
(42:37):
membership growth in our chapter.
As far as middle managers areconcerned, I would tell you that
10, 15 years ago, the vastmajority of our members were
general managers.
Right now, just a tinge over 50%of our chapter membership are
middle managers of all levels,and you have to know how to
(42:59):
complement that.
In the past, we've always donea general manager's roundtable,
but we didn't call it generalmanagers, we just call it a
roundtable.
So a lot of GMs would come andsome middle managers would come,
but they were intimidated totalk in a room full with GMs.
(43:20):
So we're having our and we maybe a little late to the party
we're having our first evermid-manager roundtable on July
10th.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Ooh, very fun.
Is it in person?
Oh yeah, oh, absolutely inperson.
Oh, it'd be interesting if youblindfolded all the people, so
then people wouldn't know atfirst like who is talking.
You know if they're like alittle bit hesitant, uh, yeah,
and we have.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
We have the edict that's been sent out not only by
myself but our chapterpresident, bridget eckert, who's
the assistant gm at the townand country club, is that no gms
are allowed.
We're doing it at Bridget'sclub and I made sure that her
general manager, carl Granberg,knows that no, he cannot come in
the room.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
That is cool.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
You know, if you have a good peer group together in a
roundtable meeting, youprobably only have to start the
conversation with one particularthing or item and it'll take
off to get them engaged and themiddle managers will feel more
comfortable being in a room fullof their peers.
So that's important.
And the gender balance in ourbusiness the gender balance has
(44:34):
become more balanced and that'spretty important.
We have our gender balance inour chapter.
Right now is about 60-40 maleto female, but that's grown.
I mean, that's come a long way.
And the gender part of ourbusiness is very important.
(44:56):
We have several dozen, or alittle more than two dozen very
talented females that are inleadership roles at the clubs in
our chapter.
In fact, it was amazing,there's a publication in our
area called the Minneapolis StPaul Business Journal, somehow
or another.
The reporter that covers clubswanted to do an article on women
(45:21):
in, you know, women in clubleadership, but also, just, you
know, women in our business, andhe called me and said he was
going to do it and I said, wow,it's about time.
But what he ended up doing ishe wrote a terrific article and,
(45:41):
uh, name names.
Because I gave names to him.
I mean we have.
We have um a dozen ladies inour chapter that are general
managers like yeah and uh and,and so they're.
they're very talented, and youknow what?
Again, it doesn't matter, thegender irrelevant.
And if the gender is relevantas it relates to any position in
(46:01):
our industry, then it's wrongat that club.
It doesn't matter.
I just want talented peoplethat understand the drill, to be
able to take good care of theircoworkers, the members, and
make their financial goals 100%Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
This was so good.
This is amazing well.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I'm honored.
I'm honored to be on with you.
I watch your episodes, so Iappreciate it.
Well, it's good.
I'm glad that you do this,denny, because again it's
another opportunity for all ofour peers in our business to be
able to tune into variousindividuals across the country,
(46:44):
and you have that timeframe of40 minutes or so to find out how
we as individuals think aboutand address and see our business
, and that's important.
So keep it up.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Thank you, sir.
All right, hope you all enjoyedthat episode.
I know I did.
Raleigh, thank you so much forcoming on.
Thank you for being such afriend and a partner to so many
and for all you do for theindustry.
It means the absolute world.
Hope you all enjoyed that.
I'm your host, danny Corby.
That's this episode.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, member engagement
secrets, board governance andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteranjust getting your feet wet or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
(00:20):
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show place.
I'm your host, denny Corby.
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am joined byone of the most respected,
genuinely beloved figures in theclub space.
He's the guy who makes you feellike you belong.
The second you meet him, I amchatting with none other than
Raleigh Carlson.
He's been in the game fordecades, from retail and
(00:41):
marketing to regional operationswith American Golf to leading
private clubs in Wisconsin andMinnesota, and for the last 14
years he's been the beatingheart and managing director
behind the Upper Midwest CMAAchapter.
I first got to work withRaleigh and meet him as I was
emceeing and getting ready forthe Midwest Regional Educational
(01:01):
Forum with him and KathyCollins, and it was amazing
watching Raleigh do what he doesbest, which is make every
single person that he comes incontact with, feel welcomed,
valued and inspired to lead withpurpose.
So in this episode we talkabout him and his career and we
get into some big topics frommentorship to the danger of
(01:22):
chasing money over a mission andhow to build a career that
doesn't just grow but also givesback.
We also touch on the biggestmistakes people make when
changing jobs and we also talkabout the biggest mistakes
people make when changing jobs.
What makes somebody coachableand how and why helping others
without needing the creditsomehow gets you all the credit.
(01:44):
It's amazing.
I am so psyched and stoked likestokeded Now.
I'm very excited for thisepisode and cannot wait for you
guys to dive in.
But before we do, I just wantto give you a quick update If
you haven't heard about alreadya little fun management event I
am doing the end of September inMonticello, new York, at the
(02:07):
Monticello Motor Club.
It is going to be such anamazing time Management in
motion, racing, drifting,auto-axing, high-speed laps, but
also learning and gettingeducation from other GMs in the
(02:27):
space who spend time on thetrack and how that relates to
leadership and management andwhat we all do at clubs every
single day.
I am so excited for this If youwant to learn more, head on
over to privateclubradiocom.
Slash management in motion orjust privateclubradiocom slash
mim dot com.
Slash management in motion orjust private club radio dot com
slash mim.
It's affordable, it'sinexpensive and we are going to
(02:48):
have absolutely such an amazingtime.
Great people, great networking,great education, great fun,
great food and I know the guestlist so far.
It is packed with some reallyfun people from all over the
country.
We are limiting it to 50 spotsand there's over 30 taken so far
, so not too many left.
(03:09):
Make sure you register as well.
I just want to give a big thanksto all of our show partners
here on Private Club Radio.
It means the absolute world.
You're going to hear about themthroughout the ads and
throughout the episodes.
If you're in the market orlooking to learn a little bit
more about them, please hit themup and let them know that
you're reaching out because ofPrivate Club Radio.
Enough about all that.
Let's get to the episode.
Private Club Radio listeners,let's welcome to the show.
(03:31):
Raleigh Carlson, how are thingsin your world?
Where is Homebase for you again?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Homebase is a northwest Minneapolis suburb,
Twin City area suburb by thename of Maple Grove, Minnesota,
and we finally got a littlerelief from the scorching heat
the last three days.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
See, we finally are just getting heat here, like
we're just getting warm.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
We send it to you with our love, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Is that where you're born and raised?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Well, I grew up in Minnesota, lived in Denver for
15 years, came back to MinnesotaTwin City area in 2002.
Got you Because there was onegrandchild then and we assumed
there would be more, and now wehave five.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Wow, popping them out .
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, well, they range in age from 14 to 24.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
That's a fun age is.
It is the older they get, thebetter it is to engage with them
.
Yeah, do you get to see?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
them often.
Oh yeah, we do they.
They live fairly.
They live fairly close, so,yeah, we do get to see them
often that's cool.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Are any of them future club people?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I don't think they're going to be future club people.
A couple of them have, uh haveworked in hospitality.
In fact, uh, our middle son,chad's wife nicole, used to work
for me at the hudson golf clubin hudson, wisconsin, and that's
how they met.
Oh, no way, oh yeah, so seethat the club thing just keeps
(05:05):
coming back around.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah.
And now, how did you get intothe club space?
How did you find your way in?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
I found my way into clubs when we were living in
Denver in the early 90s.
I went to work for AmericanGolf Corporation and at that
time American golf corporationwas the largest golf management
company well, at least theunited states, they alleged the
world.
But the united states and umstarted out working for them and
(05:34):
, in specific clubs, end upbeing the regional director
responsible for all of americangolf's private and daily fee
properties in Colorado and NewMexico.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Interesting.
And then what got you toexecutive director now?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
What was the rest of your career path like?
Well, I joined CMA in 2003 whenI was a general manager of the
Hudson Wisconsin Golf Club.
And when I was with AmericanGolf, they wouldn't support us
joining CMA because, you know,all of the programs within
American Golf to run the coursesand so on and so forth are, I
(06:15):
wouldn't say, proprietary, butthey're of their own birth and
so American Golf kind of sort ofdidn't want any outside
influence in the operations ofour properties.
But when we moved back here andended up at the Hudson Golf
Club, I ended up connecting witha longtime chapter member by
the name of Dick Haugen, who hassince retired, and he got me
(06:38):
involved.
And so here we are.
I was president of the chapterin 2010.
We are.
I was president of the chapterin 2010.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And when I retired in 2013, they asked me to be the
managing director.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
And I said, well, of course.
So yeah, been involved for along time.
It's a great opportunity tostay connected in our industry
and also another greatopportunity is to work with and
encourage young peopleinterested in hospitality to
consider entering the club world.
And we do a lot of that withthere in CMEA land.
(07:16):
There are a number of CMEAstudent chapters and our chapter
and Kathy Collins, who managesthe Wisconsin Badger chapter,
were the senior chapters for UWStout in Menominee, wisconsin,
for their CMEA chapter.
So we work closely with them.
We financially support the clubmanagement course in their
(07:37):
hospitality program in the fallsemester and I wouldn't say
we're recruiting, but by thetime they start the club
management class right afterLabor Day and finish after
Thanksgiving they know a gooddeal about the industry and a
good number of them end up goinginto the club industry.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
They are speaking fluent Clubbanese.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yes, they are.
Well, we involve them.
You know they get to, they getto meet.
You know of the 12 or 13Mondays in the fall semester,
depending on when Thanksgivingis, nine or 10 of those Monday
classes are.
I personally don't conduct allof them, but are conducted by
CMA members, whether they'relocal chapter members or
(08:22):
connected to CMA on a regionalbasis or even a national basis.
So we do a lot to really pullback the curtain on the club
industry for these students andthe maximum enrollment for those
classes is 30, and it's beenfull with a waiting list the
last three years.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Heck, yeah, yeah.
What sort of things do youthink that they are surprised by
when you quote unquote pullback the curtain, like.
What do you think is like thecommon misconception from
students to clubs?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I wouldn't call it a misconception.
The vast majority, if not allof the students in the class
really don't have a sense orvision or understanding of what
clubs are.
But as we go through the classand Kathy and I conduct a class
early in the semester to kind ofpull back the curtain and tell
them all about clubs, and so wego around the room and have
(09:17):
everybody tell us who they are,where they're from, why they're
here and what they want to do inhospitality.
And when they get all done andthey want to do any number of
things in hospitality when theyget all done, we tell them you
know what you can do any one ofthose or all of those in clubs,
and it's easier.
And the reason it's easier isbecause your customers are the
members and they're nottransient, and no disrespect to
(09:39):
restaurants or hotels or youknow, any other hospitality
venues, but their eyes light upwhen they hear that.
The fact that the people thatthey're going to be engaging
with if they go in clubs are nottransient.
They're the members and for themost part it leads to great
engagements.
If you know and understand them, the members themselves, then
(10:01):
in a lot of cases, if you payattention, you can actually
anticipate their needs.
And that goes a long way toconnecting.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Well, I think on the flip side, because there's
probably maybe some kids orpeople or personalities, whoever
who want more of that transient.
Maybe they don't want to be asin the relationship, they like
more of the hotel stuff.
So it also helps self-filterand find the right people, the
right kind of hotel stuff.
So it also helps self-filterand find the right people, the
right kind of.
I think it does take a certainpersonality, a certain person to
(10:32):
really lead in the club space.
There's many different areas inthe club space, but to really
lead and be a true consummateclub professional, I think it's
definitely a certain personality.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, that's definitely true, denny.
Some of the things that we tellthem when Kathy and I are in
that first meeting with them, isthat wherever you go, you want
to be involved in the initialsteps of your career, where
there's potentially a goodtraining program so you can
learn and grow.
And we tell them flat out thebest training programs within
(11:07):
the entire hospitality industryare hotels.
They really have excellenttraining programs and we always
point out for an example and useMarriott or Hilton as examples
Wonderful, wonderful trainingprograms to help you develop, as
examples, wonderful, wonderfultraining programs to help you
develop.
But we do tell them, if yousucceed in hotels and you begin
(11:28):
to grow, you almost don't get tounpack your suitcase, because
if you're good in hotels, theywill move you along, and it's a
relative statement, but move youalong at a fairly rapid pace
Doesn't mean it's not a goodcareer, but we just share with
them.
You know that that's that'syou're going to.
You're going to be real mobileif you end up deciding to stay
(11:50):
in the hotel industry and keepgoing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah, and you've had quite, a you know,
unique background that includesboth ops and marketing.
How do you think that hasshaped?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
how you've led and kind of coached and mentored
others over the years.
Well, because it provides apretty broad horizon to what you
can do in clubs.
It helps me tap into what thereal hot buttons or interest
areas are with individuals andclubs, and not that I tell them
how to do it or what to do, butI can share examples of
(12:28):
experiences that help lead to agrowth career from that
standpoint.
And when it comes right down toit, this is the people business
and whether you're on themember side or the club
management side, it's the peoplebusiness.
The club management side it'sthe people business and if you
understand that, then it's easyand it's it's frankly, it's more
(12:52):
fun because and not everybodyyou connect with in clubs, as
far as members are concerned,are welcoming or interesting to,
to spend some time with, butit's the people business and
once, if you like people, thisis a great industry for us.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
If you like people, this is a great industry for us.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, Is there, you know kind of still on the
(13:31):
younger managers, or even justlike the younger professional
side?
Is there something, because youhave your ear to the ground
with them, is there anythingthat you know they maybe need to
hear right now that they don'twant to hear?
Is there any like common thingsthat are popping up, that or
trends that maybe need to stop?
Or that's a good.
That's a good, that's a goodquestion, because there's a
couple of things.
First of all, one of the thingsthat we help them understand
and hopefully they'll becomfortable with is to put
themselves out there.
In other words, you know, beopen, be conversant, smile,
engage with the members.
The key word in the clubbusiness today and with respect
(13:53):
to members is the experience,the word experience, and so, no
matter what level you are in amanagement career in a club, in
whatever area of the club, youplay, to varying degrees, a a
key role in the in, in providingthat experience and, um, you
know.
So we tell them, don't beafraid to put yourself out there
.
Um, we, you know.
(14:14):
We tell them various things,and I'm always kidded about this
because I always tell them.
I'll tell you what my motheralways told me you have two ears
and one mouth.
Make sure you use them in thatorder.
And when you engage with membersas a club, as part of the staff
of the club, you should don'thear what they say, listen to
(14:36):
what they say.
So if you're, you know,encountering a conversation that
maybe a member has not had areal good experience or doesn't
like something about the club,and again, no matter what you
level at, make sure you clearlyunderstand what they are trying
to bring to your attention andthen read it back to them to
make sure you have it.
And there's one word that can'tbe in a vocabulary when you're
(15:00):
in the club business, and thatword is no.
Never say no.
In most all cases, no matterwhat the club member is looking
for or sharing with you, find apath to yes, whether it's in
totality or various pieces of it, clear articulation and
engaging with members.
It's invaluable and the membersreally appreciate that too.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, you know I'm in the camp of going for.
Yes, I know there's otherpeople who have a, you know a
different point of view, whichis totally fine, but to me I
always love going for.
Like oh my, yes, of course wecan.
It's going to have to.
You know it's going to cost amillion, it's going to.
You know there's always a.
But there of course we can doit.
(15:46):
Yeah, it's going to have to.
You know it's going to cost amillion, it's going to.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know there's always a but there, of course we
can do it.
Yeah, of course we can totallydo that.
Yeah, Well, but that's not.
But you're not, you're not offtarget at all, because when you
get, when you get theconversation engaged like that,
you can help them as a path toyes, and it may be totally what
they're looking for, or acomponent of they're looking for
, or what we have to do to getto where the member thinks we
(16:08):
ought to go with something yeah,and you and you, you've coached
a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You've you've mentored a lot of people.
What's what, who?
Who's your favorite type ofperson to coach, to mentor, and
what makes somebody coachableand mentorable?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I think it's one key word and it's sincerity.
You know, if you've been arounda long time and I have and you
have you can tell if somebody'ssincere in what they want to
talk about or ask about or tellyou about, and that sincerity
thing is very important.
Once you understand that andthen you work closely with
(16:47):
somebody and you're on a youknow you're on a with your staff
members.
At least, my orientation wasthree priorities, in this order
member satisfaction or, excuseme, co-worker satisfaction.
Member satisfaction and thenmake your financial goals.
Because if you provide a good,safe, clean workplace that's
(17:07):
free of any harassment oranything from anybody and work
closely with your coworkerswhether it's a job or a career
and help them grow or succeed orfeel good about it, then that's
going to show through to themember experience.
And if you get those two right,you have an awfully good
opportunity to make yourfinancial goals.
And if you get those two right,you have an awfully good
opportunity to make yourfinancial goals.
(17:28):
But if you get those first twoturned around and don't have
coworker satisfaction number one, that's going to show through
to the members as well and thenyou've got a real challenge in
taking good care of your membersafter you've tried to take good
care of your coworkers.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, your, your vibe attracts your tribe.
That's good, Well put yeah, andhere here's a.
Here's a second one for you.
Be more interested thaninteresting.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That's right.
I like that one, that's rightand there and there's there's.
You know there's a therethere's.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
you know there's a subtext to that, and that is
you're not in a club, no matterwhat level you're serving as an
employee, to have the lightshine on you, and you don't want
to do that because members willsee through that right away and
it doesn't work Well, and Ithink you know to get
metaphorical I think is theright word is like when you
(18:23):
shine enough light on the peoplearound you, it brightens you in
different ways, like you'restill visible, you're still
there, you know, and it you know, the the older I get to, the
more it's like, the more youhelp others, and I think I don't
know if it's a Jim Rohn quoteor who you know who knows Brian
Tracy, but it's like you know,if you help enough people
achieve their goals, you'llachieve yours.
(18:45):
Like, so just the more you justhelp and put the spotlight in
front of other people.
It just comes back on youmultiple times over.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, you know, the best part, the most fun about
managing clubs and this appliesto me too, being the managing
director of a CMA chapter, andthis applies to me, too, being
the managing director of a CMEAchapter the best part about it
is helping people understand howto get to where they want to go
.
And I used to do one thing inclubs all the time, and I did it
(19:18):
every single morning, and Icalled it MBWA and it was
management by wandering around.
And you know, if you know yourco-workers' first names, and
before shift starts or whateverthe case may be, if you're just
present, you walk around and sayyou know, hi, bob, how you
doing, hi, denny, how's things,how's your son?
(19:39):
I understand he's playinghockey, or whatever the case may
be.
If you're just present, youwalk around and say you know, hi
, bob, how you doing, hi, denny,how's things, How's your son?
I understand he's playinghockey or whatever.
That way and do it sincerely.
That way is.
I mean, that's a pretty obviousway of showing that your
coworkers, you really do careabout them.
And you know the old sayingabout you know my door's always
open.
You know to come into my office.
The the the point.
(19:59):
The other point to that is ifyou develop that relationship,
then you're always open to themand they can come to you with
questions.
Now, if they come to you withquestions or challenges within a
department and you're the GM orthe AGM, you want to.
You want to understand whatthey tell you, but you don't
step on the toes of their boss,you know another supervisor,
(20:21):
point them in the rightdirection and then just
understand and see what happenswith it.
I mean, to me that's justcommon sense.
It's absolutely common sense totreat your co-workers that way
it's absolutely common sense totreat your co-workers that way.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, when it comes to mentors, mentees, what about
on the flip side is what can orwhat are some traits or
attributes or what are some waysthat a young person can look up
to or ask somebody like howdoes that relationship start
between mentor, mentoree and?
And what about if it's not eventhe person that they directly
work with?
So let's just say it's somebodythat they just admire from a
(21:00):
different club or whatever.
How do you start thatconnection, that relationship?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, there's a couple of ways to do it.
The first way is it doesn'tmatter what management position
you're in a club.
As I've said before, get toknow your people.
You don't have to know themintimately, but get to know them
to the point where, hopefully,they're comfortable coming to
you and saying so and so andsuch and such and the other you
(21:28):
know.
The other part of it you knowwithin, and I'll take it to
within our chapter.
It to within our chapter,within our chapter.
As a managing director, youdevelop various depths in the
relationships of all of yourmembers.
But if they believe what yousay and you're honest and
legitimate, then if they have aquestion or an issue, they'll
(21:49):
come to you.
It might be a question aboutsomething in club management
where could I go?
In other words, from step twoto step three or as they go
through their career.
Answer it based on what youknow.
And if you don't actually knowthe specific answer or want to
get something to them, tell themlet me find that out for sure
(22:16):
and let me get back to you.
Live up to what you say.
If you say you're going to getback to him, don't run into him
a week later and say oh yeah,that's right, I owe you an
answer.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
You know, what's really funny is I was just
chatting with a GM today.
He's a longtime client, friend,just a good person, and I say
phone tag.
He's been meaning to call meback for a while now and he
thoroughly apologized today.
It's so weird that you justbrought that up because he made
it a point to say no, like I'vebeen trying to instill in myself
(22:45):
and my team, if somebody getsback to you within 24 hours,
like you, you get them some sortof response.
It might not be the the onethat everybody wants.
It might say, hey, I need somemore time, but like you, have to
within 24 hours.
So he's like I, he's like I.
Am very sorry, it's just soweird how you just brought that
up.
That's so weird.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And then the timely response is important.
You know, do what you say, whatyou're going to do when you say
you're going to do it, and thendo it.
If it's simply as simple as aPost-it note on your desk or
somewhere that says you know,make sure you hook up with Denny
at 2 o'clock on this Monday.
If it's just a quick answer orI'm not done yet, I'll get back
to you.
At least you didn't leave anydoubt in the mind of the
(23:44):
recipient that you were workingon or understood what they
wanted.
Again, it's common sense, butit's very, very simple to do it.
You can have a Post-it note.
You can write it on your hand.
Everybody's got a mobile phone,you have a calendar in there,
that'll, that'll, that'll dingand give you a notice of
something, and it's okay, justhave it right there, because
when you get mired in theday-to-day activity and the
minutiae and the dynamics, ifyou don't have a small reminder
(24:08):
somewhere to tell you, it's easyto get by it.
And then how do you feel anhour or two later when you were
supposed to connect withsomebody?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
yeah, but then again, the apology is very important
yeah, is that you've you're youget to see and deal and hear
with like a lot in the in theindustry, probably more than the
average person, just as for howmuch that that you do is there?
Are there any career mistakes?
You see over and over againthat maybe people, if they, you
(24:35):
know, took an extra second tomaybe think about or just wait,
you know, is there anything thatyou just see?
Maybe people make you know alittle misstep?
I think, even though it's alllearning curves, you know it's
all learning.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
But I think I think the one that I see the most is
changing jobs from one club toanother and just making the move
for money.
It's not about the money andyou know, in our chapter in
Minnesota North South Dakota,part of Wisconsin the networking
component of our chaptermembers is very strong Because
(25:08):
in our business there's nosecrets.
Everybody knows what everyother club is doing.
I mean it's not like a secretstrategy or anything.
Everybody knows whateverybody's doing, whether it's
a club that's four miles fromyou or a club across town.
But the whole point is,especially in a position of a
managing director, you have apretty good, you have pretty
(25:30):
good insight into most, all ofthe clubs in your chapter and
how they operate or whatever.
Now, I mean you're not, youmight know some sensitive
information.
You don't share that.
But if you develop that trustlevel with your, with your
chapter members, and a chaptermember wants to go from club A
(25:50):
to club B and they call you andsay they call me and say Raleigh
, what do you think about club B?
And I and I don't, you know Idon't, I don and say they call
me and say Raleigh, what do youthink about Club B?
And I don't say, well, youdon't want to work there.
But I do tell them is that allright if you're going to go from
Club A to Club B and Club B?
Make sure you know all of thesethings A, b, c, d, e because
(26:12):
that could lead them to findthose things out.
It would be unprofessional ofme to share some of the
behind-the-scenes things that Iknow, but I want to point them
in the direction of make sureyou know these things before you
get ready.
But the biggest mistake theymake is making a move just for
the money.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, how do you help them balance that when money is
important?
When money is important, youknow, like, let's just say that
that big pay bump is, you know,hey, like how do you try to
guide somebody when you knowthat's a big?
You know, for what?
You know I'm trying to think oflike not devil's advocate, but
(26:49):
you know, sometimes it's alllike oh yeah, like that's great,
but like what about that person, that club professional, who's
you know, has maybe a new kit orsomething, whatever it is.
But they're like, hey, thatextra bump, that 5, 10, 15, 20
grand, however much, that's likegame changing for them.
How do you help them balance?
Or?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
well and it goes back to what I said earlier too,
danny is to to.
If you just chase the money,then you just basically make a
decision based on the money.
But if you've been offered theposition or you're like in
presumably the second to lastinterview, you should have those
(27:31):
questions ready and you cantell if you're paying attention.
You can tell if the recipientof your question is shooting the
moon, so to speak, or givingyou an honest answer, and even
an honest answer of saying, okay, we have a significant
challenge in this area of theclub and here's what we're doing
(27:51):
to try and solve it.
And that person might come backto you and ask you how would
you solve it?
But if you get into thatsincere conversation where you
feel confident that theiranswers are honest, that'll help
you make the decision.
And, by the way, even whenpeople do that, even when people
(28:12):
do that in a small number ofcases it doesn't work.
And the reason it doesn't work,when all is said and done, is
there ended up being apersonality conflict somewhere
in the management organizationand it might likely have
precluded that individual thatwent there to do their job
correctly, and it happens.
(28:33):
I mean it happens, but that'sas far as you can go to prepare
them to make the right decision.
You know, and the old sayings,like you know, the grass is
always greener on the other sideof the fence or all that
glitters is gold.
You just have to throw thosethings out for them to think
(28:53):
about it, because in alllikelihood they probably haven't
given it much thought, becausethey already have stars in their
eyes about this number.
I mean, it's other things youhave to do and there's a there's
a it's kind of a time worncliche or saying in today's
business world is work lifebalance?
(29:14):
I'm not so sure I like the wordbalance as opposed to work-life
synergy.
Now, if you're in the part ofthe world like we are in
Minnesota, there's a significantbell curve from a seasonality
standpoint.
So from, I'll say, from May 1stto the end of October, but
(29:34):
especially May, june and July,or June, july and August, you
know it's, you know everything'son deck, because that's the
peak of the season In that partof the country.
You have more time in the offseasons or the shoulder seasons
to have a little more personaltime, whether it's family time
or whatever the case may be.
So you have to try and figureout or understand that when
(29:58):
you're interviewing for thatposition, in other words, what
the expectations are and what'shappened in our business in the
last four or five years, is thatif a club, if a club, five, six
years ago had two food andbeverage managers, today they
have three or four, because thatyoung generation coming up,
(30:19):
it's not a soft work ethic thatthey have, but their mindset and
their expectation is, yeah,maybe 50 hours a week.
You know, a number of years agoit was 60 or 70 or you know,
until you fainted, went home,rested and came back.
But it's a generationalunderstanding that has to be
there.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, for me, genuinely it seems like love,
just helping others, helpingothers move forward.
Where does that come from?
Like was that?
Were you always that way?
Where does does that come from?
Like is that?
Was that, were you always thatway?
Was like where?
Where does all that come from?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Well, to a large degree it's always been that way
because my mom and dadinstilled it in me and I would
suggest when I was a lot youngerI wasn't listening real clearly
.
But my, my dad was a chamber ofCommerce executive for 40 or 50
years and so you know obviouslya member-oriented business, so
to speak.
(31:21):
But I watched a lot from thesidelines growing up and how my
dad you know how my dadinteracted and carried himself
in the Chamber of Commercebusiness.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Because it's.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I mean you're that visible business, because it's.
I mean you're that visible,it's, it's, it's, it's.
The visibility is on a, on a,on a, on a broader scope than
being the GM as an example of aclub.
But I think I just, just, youknow, just watching my dad and
paying attention and, like Isaid when I was younger, I'd say
wow, what's that?
But you know, it all comes backand my mom was well, she was
(31:56):
the best mom in the world, butas far as I was concerned,
obviously, but I had a closerelationship with my mother, but
just watching my dad, and then,of course, you know, being
alongside him or with him in mymuch younger days at a chamber
function or something of thatnature you just, if you're
paying attention, you know, ifyou're wide awake and paying
(32:17):
attention, you see things,whether you can define them or
not, that say, I think thatlooks like the right thing to do
.
You might not say it yourselfthat way, but just, you know,
just from that standpoint, and Ihad three or four great mentors
as I was growing up in thebusiness.
And you know, obviously Ihaven't been in the club
(32:38):
business my whole adult life,but, having been in the retail
business for a number of yearsbefore getting into the golf
industry and the club businesshad some great mentors.
They had incredible peopleskills but they didn't like wear
it on their sleeve, if youunderstand what I'm saying.
They were good mentors and theygave you good insights and good
(32:59):
direction and I'm honored toplay that role.
If it's a role I play with thepeople that I engage with,
whether they're studentsthinking about the hospitality
industry or members of ourchapter or CMA people across the
United States One of the greatthings about being being a
managing director of a chapteris you.
(33:21):
You have a lot of goodengagement with other chapters
and other members and you'vebeen to the CMA world conference
so I mean that's the Mecca of,you know, of networking and
education and professionaldevelopment and if you go to as
many of them as I have, you'dhave to be deaf, dumb and blind
not to meet great people and youknow you just develop a
(33:45):
connection that you're going torun into either at the next
world conference or in someother circumstance in the
business.
And you know I mean reallywhat's more fun than engaging
with people that appreciate, youknow, your friendship or
fellowship Because, again, younever know when you might have
to call them up and say, hey, soit's worth a lot.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, yeah, If you can give, if you can give every
maybe CMAA chapter, every CMAmember a challenge to focus on
for the rest of this year, whatwould it be?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Well, I'll talk about what CMA gives them to make
sure they understand it.
And it's education,professional development and
networking, and those are notvertical priorities, they're
horizontal.
So the thought that I wouldshare with them is that
understand the value that youcan capture from all three of
(34:48):
those, of all three of thosetenants of what CMEA is all
about, and take the time, go tothe meetings, go to go to the
world conference or go to yourlocal chapter meetings.
Engage with, engage with otherpeople, because it's amazing how
much you can learn by justhanging out with people that are
in this, in the same industryor vocation that you are.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think a lot it's taking thatextra step, putting in that
little bit of extra work,putting yourself out there
trying to connect with peoplewho you don't know, step outside
your circle a little bit.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Well, you have to, and the easy part about it is,
as an example, at CMA, at theWorld Conference, you have this
very large name tag hangingright in front of your body.
And even if you run intosomebody that you might have met
before, all you got to do islook up and see their name tag
and you can address them byfirst name.
But again, you, you, you get achance to build those
(35:46):
relationships.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
And you gave me the, you gave me my favorite one runs
with scissors which is not toofar from the truth.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, I mean, how easy is that?
And I'm not so sure I'd sayputting yourself out there.
But when you're in those crowdsor the chapter meetings or
World Conference or whatever theopportunity to say hi to
somebody by their first name andyou're not being not genuine by
doing it, is saying hi, denny,how are you People like that?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
People love their name.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, that's exactly right.
But there's been an interestingevolution over a number of
years in the club industry, andwhat I always tell people that
are either just getting into itor going from club to club, one
of the first things well, whatyou have to do is you have to
figure out how to adapt to thatclub's culture.
(36:51):
If you're a new GM going in,you don't get to set the culture
.
It's been there to learn how toadapt to it.
But one of the first things youwant to a couple, two things
you want to find out Do you wantme to wear a tie or not?
And second of all, should Iaddress the members by first
name or by Mr or Mrs or Ms?
Because that really helps youget off to a good start of
(37:15):
adapting to the culture and justdoing what is expected from a
culture standpoint.
Pretty important stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah.
Is there a small behavior orlike a habit, you think that can
completely change someone'scareer?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Yeah, a lot of the things.
Yeah, if they're not willing toengage or a little afraid of it
or intimidated by engaging,they have to do it.
They absolutely have to do it.
And a good way to witness theright kind of engagement if it's
a club coworker and engagingwith members hang out and watch
(37:57):
what other people do that do it.
It's not that difficult.
You know they're not going toask you for your social security
number, so you know you don'thave to be guarded.
But what I've seen is when and Ihad the good fortune of having
some very talented people on mystaff over the years that
weren't quite sure how to engagewith members because they
(38:21):
hadn't come from the clubbusiness and I would always
point out to them because youcould tell, just kind of keeping
an eye on them, you know whenthey get started in whatever
they're doing, you can tell ifthey have, you know, a fluid
feeling for engaging or not, andso you can.
You know you can, just inpassing in the break room or
(38:41):
whatever you can say.
You know you, if you, if youwant to feel more comfortable
engaging with members, keep aneye on Bob and see how he does
it, because it's it, it, it'snot that difficult.
But I, you know, I understandhow young people getting in the
industry can be intimidated orfeel a little intimidated, but
that can also go back.
(39:02):
And maybe this may soundself-serving but that can go
back to when Kathy and I teachthat class at UW-Stout in the
beginning of the semester, sothey see that we're genuine and
approachable.
From that standpoint it's well,you know, I've done it for many
years.
But you need to help.
You need to help people thatneed help in that area, but you
(39:23):
also need to help people thatare too verbose or overbearing,
you know, and you have to findthe right way to, to comfort,
comfort, comfortably tell themhey, turn that down a little bit
.
You know what I mean.
And of course you don't.
You don't do it that way, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Give them a little.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Yeah what I mean and of course you don't.
You don't do it that way.
Yeah, give them a little, yeah,but I mean you, you know, you,
um, I wouldn't say you're onguard, but it's pay attention to
what's going on around you.
It's, it's uh, it's veryimportant, it's very important
to uh to do that, becausethat'll help you grow yeah, was.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Was there anything you wanted to talk about or any
questions you wanted me to askyou?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
No, but I want to tell you something.
I had a nice meet and greetwith a new member of the chapter
.
He's previously been in one ofthe clubs in our chapter and so
we were chatting this morning.
I just want to go out and sayhi and welcome back to the
neighborhood and everything.
And he said well, what's yourday like?
And I said well, I'm going tochat with Danny Corby this
(40:29):
afternoon.
He said isn't that the guy withall the spiked hair?
And I said, if I'm not mistaken, the last couple of years he's
toned it down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
I mean the hair.
I'm only talking about the hair.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Well, I mean, come on Now you talk about engaging
with people.
When you were the emcee of ourMidwest Regional Education Forum
, you know between, first of all, so Kathy and I didn't have to
keep running back and forth tothe microphone, but your
friendly demeanor, your comedicattitude and not a bad magician,
by the way, either but you madepeople feel comfortable all the
(41:11):
time and that's why when Kathyfirst reached out to you and
then you and I and Kathy had achance to chat I don't know if
you're a household word, butyou're pretty well known in our
industry but what you created asthe emcee, that also that
created a culture at thatthree-day meeting of everybody's
(41:34):
relaxed and this is friendlyand everybody's welcome Well
done.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Thank you so much for that.
Thanks for doing that on therecord as well.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So I didn't know if there was anything you wanted to
talk about or anything you'reexcited about.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Well, what I'm excited about just is how our
industry has evolved and I'vebeen in the industry for a
little over 20 years but howit's evolved not only well,
first of all, position-wise,cmea changed their name from
Club Managers Association toClub Management Association in
(42:12):
2018.
And the message was or themessage got through to the
leadership at CMA on a nationalbasis that this isn't just for
general managers In themid-management segment where are
the future leaders in ourindustry going to come from?
But from middle managers, andI've seen that evolve and our
(42:37):
membership growth in our chapter.
As far as middle managers areconcerned, I would tell you that
10, 15 years ago, the vastmajority of our members were
general managers.
Right now, just a tinge over 50%of our chapter membership are
middle managers of all levels,and you have to know how to
(42:59):
complement that.
In the past, we've always donea general manager's roundtable,
but we didn't call it generalmanagers, we just call it a
roundtable.
So a lot of GMs would come andsome middle managers would come,
but they were intimidated totalk in a room full with GMs.
(43:20):
So we're having our and we maybe a little late to the party
we're having our first evermid-manager roundtable on July
10th.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Ooh, very fun.
Is it in person?
Oh yeah, oh, absolutely inperson.
Oh, it'd be interesting if youblindfolded all the people, so
then people wouldn't know atfirst like who is talking.
You know if they're like alittle bit hesitant, uh, yeah,
and we have.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
We have the edict that's been sent out not only by
myself but our chapterpresident, bridget eckert, who's
the assistant gm at the townand country club, is that no gms
are allowed.
We're doing it at Bridget'sclub and I made sure that her
general manager, carl Granberg,knows that no, he cannot come in
the room.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
That is cool.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
You know, if you have a good peer group together in a
roundtable meeting, youprobably only have to start the
conversation with one particularthing or item and it'll take
off to get them engaged and themiddle managers will feel more
comfortable being in a room fullof their peers.
So that's important.
And the gender balance in ourbusiness the gender balance has
(44:34):
become more balanced and that'spretty important.
We have our gender balance inour chapter.
Right now is about 60-40 maleto female, but that's grown.
I mean, that's come a long way.
And the gender part of ourbusiness is very important.
(44:56):
We have several dozen, or alittle more than two dozen very
talented females that are inleadership roles at the clubs in
our chapter.
In fact, it was amazing,there's a publication in our
area called the Minneapolis StPaul Business Journal, somehow
or another.
The reporter that covers clubswanted to do an article on women
(45:21):
in, you know, women in clubleadership, but also, just, you
know, women in our business, andhe called me and said he was
going to do it and I said, wow,it's about time.
But what he ended up doing ishe wrote a terrific article and,
(45:41):
uh, name names.
Because I gave names to him.
I mean we have.
We have um a dozen ladies inour chapter that are general
managers like yeah and uh and,and so they're.
they're very talented, and youknow what?
Again, it doesn't matter, thegender irrelevant.
And if the gender is relevantas it relates to any position in
(46:01):
our industry, then it's wrongat that club.
It doesn't matter.
I just want talented peoplethat understand the drill, to be
able to take good care of theircoworkers, the members, and
make their financial goals 100%Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
This was so good.
This is amazing well.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
I'm honored.
I'm honored to be on with you.
I watch your episodes, so Iappreciate it.
Well, it's good.
I'm glad that you do this,denny, because again it's
another opportunity for all ofour peers in our business to be
able to tune into variousindividuals across the country,
(46:44):
and you have that timeframe of40 minutes or so to find out how
we as individuals think aboutand address and see our business
, and that's important.
So keep it up.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Thank you, sir.
All right, hope you all enjoyedthat episode.
I know I did.
Raleigh, thank you so much forcoming on.
Thank you for being such afriend and a partner to so many
and for all you do for theindustry.
It means the absolute world.
Hope you all enjoyed that.
I'm your host, danny Corby.
That's this episode.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
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