September 29, 2025 • 49 mins
Seasonal staffing doesn’t have to be a yearly crisis. In this episode,
we sit down with Carly Eglin (CEO of Seasonal Connect) and
Keith Pabian (Founding Partner of Pabian Law) to break down how private clubs can finally get it right—from H-2B visa strategies to housing solutions, team culture, and compliance nightmares.
Whether you’re a general manager, HR director, or just tired of last-minute staffing chaos, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you attract, retain, and support seasonal workers the right way.
🔑 Topics covered:
- The 3 things seasonal workers care about most (and what clubs often miss)
- How to build housing partnerships with other clubs
- What clubs get wrong about H-2B visa planning (and how to avoid costly mistakes)
- Real talk on wages, culture, and the “break room test”
- How to legally protect your club as immigration enforcement ramps up
- The surprising ROI of treating seasonal staff like humans
Plus: The difference between clubs seasonal workers fight to return to… and the ones they run from.
If your club hires seasonal workers, this is the episode you can’t afford to skip.
🎧 Listen now and take your staffing strategy from reactive to rock-solid.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
(00:02):
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things, private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, never engagement
secrets, board governance, andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteran,just getting your feet wet, or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
I'm your host, Debbie Corby.
(00:22):
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am chattingwith Carly Eglin and Keith
Pabian, both from SeasonalConnect and Keith with Seasonal
Connect and Pabian Law, butwe're going over everything
seasonal staffing.
We're talking about what clubsusually get wrong before they
even start, what workers reallycare about, and spoiler alert,
it's wages, culture, and housingin that order.
(00:45):
But we also talk about how youcan get creative with your
housing solutions and what otherclubs are doing to get creative
and why it's not just aboutpaychecks, but also about break
rooms and culture and how youset up your H2B Visa program
without losing your mind.
So we are just diving all intoseasonal staffing, H2B, and how
(01:08):
to make the most out of thatprogram.
Now, I first got connected withCarly and Keith.
Well, we've known each other fora while, but they invited me to
their staffing summit, which isa really cool event.
Uh, it was in the summer.
I was the evening entertainmentthe one night.
Uh, but what they do is theybring together seasonal
hospitality organizations,clubs, hotels, and get people
(01:32):
chatting.
There's talks, there's breakoutsessions, there's there's
panels, and it's all thingscollaborating, solving
challenges, industry topics,everything about seasonal
staffing and hospitality.
So I got to pop into some of thesessions, and it was really cool
to see what they had cooking.
And it was an even cooler partto be a part of it.
(01:53):
But uh, once I saw what they hadgoing on, I was like, oh, we
have to do a fun episode on allthings seasonal staffing.
So this is what we have here.
Really great conversation.
Before we get to it, quick thankyou to some of our show
partners.
Without them, the show would notbe possible.
You're gonna hear their ads,you're gonna see us connect with
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If you're interested in theirproducts or their services,
(02:15):
reach out, let them know, hey,you appreciate their support on
private club radio.
And even if they're existingsuppliers and vendors and people
of yours, reach out and say,hey, we appreciate you
supporting private club radio.
In one shameless plug formyself, the Denny Corby
experience.
There's excitement, there'smystery, also there's magic,
mind reading, and comedy, a tonof laughs, gasps, and holy
(02:36):
craps.
2026 is booking and gettingfull.
2025, everything but December issold out.
Reach on out dennycorby.com.
Enough about that, though.
Let's get to the episode.
Private club radio listeners.
Let's welcome Carly Eglin andKeith Pavian from Seasonal
Connect and Pavian Law.
Give us a peek behind thecurtain of Seasonal Connect and
(02:58):
Pavian Law.
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
Sure.
So thanks so much for having us,Denny.
We're excited to be here.
Um I'm Carly Eglin.
I am the co-founder and CEO ofSeasonal Connect.
Um, Seasonal Connect launchedabout four years ago and um is
the sister company to PabianLaw.
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
And I am Keith Pabian.
Uh huge thanks, Denny.
Uh I am the only founder ofPabian Law.
Uh, we started back in 2013 andwe uh help private clubs and
other hospitality organizationswith H2B visas and year-round
options.
So we are a hospitalityimmigration law firm.
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
Got you.
What do you what do you thinkmost clubs get wrong about
seasonal staffing before theyeven start the entire process?
SPEAKER_03 (03:44):
I think a lot of them don't think they're
seasonal or don't realize howseasonal they are.
Um, a lot of people thinkseasonal and think that they
shut down for a portion of theyear, but um that's not
necessarily true at all.
And so I think that's one of thebiggest misconceptions.
And then also I think not allclubs understand what an H2B
(04:07):
visa is and what kind of peopleare working on them if they're
not familiar with that kind ofvisa.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Do you do you want to go oh god?
So I was gonna say, do you wantto go in quick and dive in?
Like what is that?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
Um I a lot of the clubs that they think that
there's more time to startplanning.
So, you know, it's so hard.
They they're grinding with withwhatever their season is, and
the season is either just comingto an end or still going when
they have to really startthinking about how to how to do
things, when to start, how tostart, how to do it right.
(04:39):
And then we can talk about thismore, but the there's so many
clubs that just continue tofollow the same way of doing
things that they think need tobe done, and there's a lot more
cost-effective and frankly justbetter ways of doing things if
the if they're open to tryingnew things.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
What are they what are they currently doing now, or
what what's a common I don'twant to say problem, but like
what's a common speed bump orhiccup that you kind of see
happening most most often?
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Well, it's crazy in this in this environment, right?
That the the p politically, uhthe government has allocated so
much money into immigrationenforcement and um I immigration
customs enforcement.
ICE is now the biggest federaluh enforcement agency at the
government.
And uh using recruiters and andusing these these agencies where
(05:33):
they're so focused on findingpeople, but they're not
necessarily paying to what therules are, paying attention to
what the rules are, is just suchuh oversight.
And and I think just it has thisantiquated model where you're
where some clubs are still usingrecruiters to do the legal work
or they're talking to them aboutuh they're they're the primary
interface between the club andthe worker, and they're not ever
(05:56):
actually talking to a law firmor they're not actually looking
at compliance on a day-to-daybasis.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
What are what are some of the repercussions, like
what are some things that couldhappen?
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
I mean under um in the first Trump administration,
uh just criminal prosecutionsalone quintupled.
Um, and in the first hundreddays, that same trend happened.
Um the government now has theability to use its discretion to
automatically deny petitions.
Um we're hearing about ICEcamping out outside of some
(06:26):
clubs and pulling workers overas they're leaving and making
sure they have papers.
Um raids are back in vogue after20-something years.
Uh there's a lot ofrepercussions, and there's a lot
of eyeballs on this on thisworld right now.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
The last thing you want is eyeballs on your club
with the big, big black Humveesand expeditions, and excursions,
and Taos.
SPEAKER_02 (06:49):
Yes, and helicopters apparently too.
SPEAKER_01 (06:52):
Blackhawks coming in.
SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
Well, and I think even the workers that are are
here legally are really nervous.
Um, we surveyed them last month,and I think it was over
two-thirds of them feel nervousworking in the US.
Um, and so I think that presencetoo is impacting the workers,
which is just further creating achallenge for the clubs in terms
(07:16):
of staffing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
So so what are some ways to ease that, or what are
you seeing, you know, in termsof like data and just where like
everything's going?
How are how are the good ones, Idon't want to say taking
advantage of a bad situation,but like how are they how are
they staying strong and makingsure that they don't feel that
and that it's a good successfulprogram?
SPEAKER_03 (07:38):
That's a good question.
I mean, I think knowledge ispower, and I think naming it for
the workers can be helpful.
I think if you're a club and youhave H2B workers, I think you
need to be talking about what'sgoing on right now.
And it doesn't have to beextremely political by any
means.
It can be pretty diplomatic, butjust making them aware of the
(07:59):
things they need to be doing inorder to um, you know, show that
they're here in legal status andyou know what to do if for some
reason I showed up at the cluband just kind of name that for
them and and reassure them andreally give them some guidelines
so that they um have a sense ofwhat would happen and and why
(08:20):
they're gonna be okay and whatthat looks like.
SPEAKER_02 (08:24):
Yeah, and I I also I mean, using a lawyer, right, for
any legal process that that goeswithout saying whether it's us
or someone else, even thoughthey should obviously use us.
Um but the other piece of it isand and it's it's it's engaging
in in programs like this.
People need to stay educated andthey need to understand what's
going on.
And uh I just think educationand and learning uh is just so
(08:49):
important right now.
It just it it's where we seeorganizations either either
succeed or fail on a dailybasis.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Yeah.
Do you mean even almost havelike I hate the word like
role-playing, but like, hey, ifsomething were to happen, here's
uh like here's the correctthings and what to say and what
to have ready and I think that Ithink it's yes, it's that, and
we're actually doing a webinaron that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
But even like I'm looking at it on my desk right
now, we every two weeks now wesend out to clients just all the
different things that havechanged in the last two weeks
because of government shifts andgovernment changes and new
policy implementations.
And just taking the time tolearn and to understand what's
happening is just so key, ratherthan just assuming like
nothing's changing andeverything's gonna always be the
(09:35):
same.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
What uh what's like another ho is is is wages and
housing a big a big topic?
SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Yes, um, absolutely.
I think wages, so it's funny, wewere hearing a lot about housing
and we were reading data thathousing had surpassed um just
staffing in general in terms ofwhat's giving clubs the most
trouble.
Um, but when Seasonal Connectsurveyed the workers in
particular, they were sayingwages are most important to
(10:07):
them, then their team culture,and then housing.
So I think there's a little bitof a mismatch with what the
workers are looking for and thenwhere the clubs are struggling.
Um but housing and wages aredefinitely in the top three.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Yeah, because cause you you guys collect all the
info on on that from like allthe parties also.
SPEAKER_03 (10:26):
Yes.
We're trying to get we're tryingto give members access to data
so they can understand how theystack up against other clubs and
you know, have some insight intowhat's going on in the industry
in general.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
Yeah.
So I think this economy's weirdright now.
I I was saying this to someonetoday that it's really hard to
figure it out, but in the worldof private clubs, it seems like
the people that have money arestill spending, and and that
means that the club still needsstaff.
But where I think the economy isweird is I think there's there
are more people available andlooking for jobs than there were
(11:01):
um a few years ago.
But I mean, Carly, you you talka lot about finding the right
worker and making sure thatclubs have the right individual
working for them has been huge.
SPEAKER_03 (11:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think one other thingthat's worth mentioning is um
for wages, these clubs haveraised their wages exponentially
since the pandemic, buthospitality still pays the
lowest wages in all of theindustries in the US.
So wages are huge, but I thinkhousing is a huge like up if
(11:35):
they're able to provide it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Denny, am I allowed to ask you questions?
Are you um are you hearing clubstalk about like the no tax on
tip policy at all?
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Uh not not in my conversations.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
Because I I think that's gonna be I know a lot of
clubs seem to be worried aboutthat.
And that's gonna be an issue,right?
It's already so hard to findgood hospitality workers.
But if if a club is nearer, andthey seem they all are, right?
If there's a high-end restaurantup the street, and that high-end
restaurant probably allowstipping, a lot of clubs do not
(12:13):
have uh tipping policies.
And so it's gonna make it reallyhard to attract good workers as
that policy keeps coming into oras it takes effect and as it
really I think as workersunderstand that they can make
more money if they go down thestreet and work for that
restaurant or that hotel.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Yeah.
I'm sure I I think some willprobably stick to their guns,
others might adapt, or you know,you I think just like anybody,
if you figure it out, each eachclub's a little bit different.
Uh you know.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
I've seen clubs already starting to shift.
So not all.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah.
Well, there I mean, there'sthere's always a creative
solution for everything.
Yes.
Um, so so how you know, sospeaking of creative solutions,
then how do you see and kind ofgoing back to like handling the
the housing, uh, how are clubshandling housing and like what
are maybe some creativeresources or solutions that
you've seen work for ones thathave had you know unique
(13:07):
situations or maybe not the bestscenarios?
SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
So some of them have housing, and I think those are
the lucky ones.
Um, others are building housingor building with other clubs in
the area.
Um, if these clubs are in anarea I'll use like Naples,
Florida, for example, wherethere's just so many clubs, you
know, together in this part ofthe country, um, some of them
are actually going in onproperties together and
(13:32):
splitting the cost and splittingthe rooms.
And so that's something we'veseen more and more of,
especially since the pandemic.
Um we also there's a number ofcompanies that help with
housing.
Um, Seasonal Connect has a fewpartners that help with it.
And then one thing that we'veseen with the workers is even if
the clubs don't have housing,just pointing them in the right
(13:54):
direction goes a long way.
Um, instead of just saying, hey,we don't have any, and kind of
leaving it to them, saying, youknow, the last year workers look
lived here, or we talked to thiscompany and they have rooms
available.
Just some kind of direction forthe workers.
SPEAKER_02 (14:10):
Yeah, we did at our staffing summit um that we do
every year, we we always do somelevel of polling and try to give
everyone a snapshot of what'sgoing on.
Um, I've noticed in the last fewyears we've seen a big increase
in clubs that own their ownhousing.
And so that's definitely beenbeen something that they've
looked at.
(14:30):
You know, it also depends onwhere the clubs are, right?
If there's publictransportation, it allows for a
larger circumference of where toput the workers.
Um but I always tellorganizations, I think it's a
mistake to go down any level ofinternational staffing if they
can't tell people where they'regonna live and how they're gonna
get to work, regardless of ifthey own their own housing.
SPEAKER_03 (14:50):
I agree.
And we are seeing um the commutetimes for workers getting longer
because housing may not be inthe same area as the club and
they have to push out um to findit.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
What are you know I it's kind of going into like the
world of like you know, values?
What do what do the what do theworkers themselves value the
most?
Like, you know, you you haveyour ear to the ground on both
the clubs and the workers.
What what are what are thethings that the workers value?
SPEAKER_03 (15:21):
In general, um, they were saying wages and we
surveyed them.
Wages was definitely number one.
Um and I thought housing wouldbe number two, but it was
actually their team culture.
A lot of them said they want towork with people who are kind
and are also hardworking.
They want to work with um peoplethat are motivating and really
just a team that they want tocome back to.
(15:42):
And then the third thing thatthey valued was housing.
Um, and whether it was havinghousing, affordable housing, or
just an employer that helps withhousing to some degree, even if
they don't have it, those werethe big three that the workers
really cared about.
Um, but we could talk abouthousing, that could be a whole
(16:03):
podcast.
Um there's so much there.
SPEAKER_02 (16:08):
When I go to different clubs, because I I
visit a lot as part of my job.
It's so easy to see who thesuccessful people are with
staffing, or the successfulclubs, who the successful ones
are with staffing, and who arethe ones that are struggling.
And the way I always look at itis you just look at the employee
breakers, right?
(16:28):
And um, the ones that thatreally value the workers and and
can and and have set up a roomwhere the workers can take that
breath and they feel comfortableand they're they're and they're
taking the time to also show offdifferent cultures, those are
the ones that every time doincredibly well with the
program.
And it's not because they makethey invest the money in the in
the in the break room, it'sbecause it the break room is
(16:50):
indicative of how they'retreating the workers overall.
But wages is always going to behuge, right?
Every every that is a hugething.
I would also say with wagescomes overtime, right?
Like how much overtime isavailable and the time and a
half and all that.
But even if a club is not thehighest paying one, if they take
the time to invest in thatworker, show them that they
(17:11):
care, treat them like a humanbeing, and really take that
extra step, they're they'redoing incredibly well with their
international program.
And frankly, they're juststaffing overall.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
Are people willing to take less if like housing and
culture are good?
So if a club knows it maybecan't pay the best, but it knows
it could at least give them goodhousing or good housing options
and they have a good culture,it's almost like it'll negate
number one.
They almost can like get awaywith sometimes not having you
know the the the best pay, butit's like, hey, we got a great
(17:42):
culture and like your housing'staken care of.
No.
Um what uh what's like what'slike the average cost of how to
house somebody or for someone topay?
Like, how does that work?
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
It's all over the map, Keith.
What are you hearing?
Because I feel like you mightsee this more than I do.
SPEAKER_02 (17:58):
Yeah, I mean, it depends on where you are, right?
So if you're in an area where umthere is no housing available,
like I always think of islands,come comes to mind with this.
Um, the club might be fullysubsidizing the cost of housing,
um, or charging very, very, verylittle.
Like it might be like 25 bucks apaper just to the worker has
some skin in the game.
(18:19):
Um but I would say it's usuallyabout like 800 to 1,000 a month,
is kind of what we see with forlike a double room.
Um, but that's on average, it'sit really is all over the place.
Um and Danny, to your questionfrom a second ago, it really is
like we always talk aboutrecruiting is also marketing.
You have to market your club.
(18:39):
That includes when you're tryingto hire staff, and it's
highlighting the good, it'sbeing honest about the bad, but
it's it's talking about you knowwhat what you're getting by
coming to us.
And I I always think of this.
We have um, you know, everyonehas their limitations.
Like it might be that housing isreally close to you versus like
another place where they have tobe in the car for two hours to
get to to work.
(19:00):
Um or it might be that um youcan dime you can you can show a
diagram of of when you're gonnaearn overtime and and all the
overtime amounts that you'regonna earn.
And so the more that you'rehighlighting your strengths
while also being strategic abouthighlighting your weaknesses as
well, so that you're beingtransparent and not running into
(19:21):
all these uh threats of uh ornot threats, but uh allegations
of false promises once theworker shows up, that that's how
you that's how you put your bestfoot forward.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
What are some what are the wages at?
What should people expect towhat are the what are the rates
that people are at now?
SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
It definitely varies by position.
What do you think, Keith?
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
I think the same answer is really geographically
uh uh dependent.
But yeah, go ahead, Curly.
SPEAKER_03 (19:49):
Yeah, and position dependent.
Um I think there's certainpositions that are on the higher
end, and then there's othersthat don't quite make as much.
But like you said, Keith, itdepends on where the club is
located.
Um and it depends, I think, howbig the club is.
Um that can have an effect andhow their their membership is
set up.
It really it's so individual tothe club.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah, but I'll say this to me, it goes back to your
US wages because with a lot ofthe international programs, you
have to pay them internationalsthe same as the Americans and
vice versa.
If you're underpaying in yourmarket and that's why you're not
attracting people, the work thethe international workers are
gonna know that you'reunderpaying in your market and
they're not gonna want to workwith you.
And so if you're paying fairwages, you're probably gonna be
(20:33):
okay, even because keep in minduh there are always there's
always gonna be clubs that arepaying more than you, right?
Everyone that that is gonnaalways be an issue.
But if you can also, as part ofthe marketing during during
hiring, if you can talk aboutcost of living and how you might
not be paying the most, but it'snot the most expensive to live
where you are and you're gonnabe able to put that money away,
(20:53):
that that's a huge key to bringthat the people into your club
as well.
SPEAKER_03 (20:57):
That's a massive thing.
If they if you can show them asa club, if you can show the
workers that the cost of livingis lower when your wages are
might be a little bit lower, youthey can kind of see that it
balances out.
And now we're hearing too, a lotof them have picked up on how
expensive medical um costs arehere.
So if you're offering that as abenefit, a lot of them are
(21:20):
looking for that as well, inaddition to the wage and the
housing costs.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
I was waiting for Keith to say something.
All right.
Um what's the hardest part abouta club starting or restarting an
H2B visa program?
Like, because I I I would assumea lot of clubs have bad first
experiences, or they try and youknow they've worked with just
you know people who are just offor just don't know how to do it
(21:46):
well themselves, so they justget like a bad, a bad taste in
their mouth.
If, or maybe it's a club justlike overwhelmed.
What are what are steps that aclub could take to like get the
ball rolling?
SPEAKER_02 (21:57):
Yeah, well, so two things.
So one is the timelines areincredibly important.
And if you start too late, itjust piles up on you, and
there's a point that you justcan't move forward because
there's all these deadlines.
So I always say if you're asummer season club, right, like
April, May, June start date, wealways start work in
mid-September, which is verysoon.
Um, if you are a winter seasonclub, like South Florida,
(22:20):
Southern Arizona, NarraskiMountain, Ana Ski Mountain, um,
we start those in mid-March.
So mid-September for summer,mid-March for winter.
Second thing is when you'restarting the program, one of the
hardest parts for a neworganization is you have to take
leaps of faith while you'restarting the program.
And so meaning that if we'restarting the process in
(22:42):
mid-September for an April orMay start date, and a club is
just starting out, unless theyalready have staff housing,
they're not gonna know wherepeople are gonna live.
They might not know how muchhousing is gonna cost, they're
not gonna have all the answers,right?
And and one of the things Ialways say is the process kind
of just builds upon itself, likelayer by layer.
And so you don't need all theanswers when you start.
But taking that leap of faiththat we know we're gonna do the
(23:04):
program and we're gonna takesteps together, but we might not
know all the answers right now,including who the workers are,
that is, I think, just it itgoes against like common sense a
little bit, and it's hard towrap your head around the first
year.
SPEAKER_03 (23:17):
I would say too, they need to have a learning
mindset.
The process is so nuanced, andif clubs or the people working
on the H2B petitions from theclub are hungry for information
and you know, keeping up on thewebinars that Pavy and Law
offers or what's going on withH2Bs, I think they're more
(23:41):
likely to grasp the biggerconcepts of the program because
they're kind of immersingthemselves in that that world
and really rather than just youknow rapid firing some answers
over to their attorney, they'rereally trying to understand the
why behind why we're askingthese things, which can help
(24:02):
them.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
That's where seasonal connect is so helpful.
I I I I I wish that we couldforce clubs to sign up like
right at the start, becausegetting a a lay for the land is
so helpful, and that's wherethat that that platform can
really give clubs that leg up asthey're trying to learn
modeling.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
What are like then questions managers should be
then asking themselves aboutseasonal staffing?
Because you know, you you you'rekind of touching on it.
They're like, what are like theimportant questions they should
be asking themselves aboutthemselves, their staffing,
their program, their club?
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
So I always start with where are you hurting the
most?
Um I'm a huge advocate ofstarting small and not just like
rushing into the program.
So where are you hurting most?
What are the roles that you'rehurting most with?
Um they're usually the samepositions.
Um it's usually grounds, foodand beverage, um, you know,
front desk has been a big onethis year.
(24:56):
Um and then it's what do youwant?
Like forget about everything youknow or any preconceived
notions.
Like, what do you what do youwant?
What would allow you to giveyour members and their guests
the the experience that you wantto be giving them and that they
that they that they want?
And then let's talk about it.
And and um, you know, it goesinto when do you want the
(25:19):
workers with you?
You know, do you have peoplethey already want?
Do you have partners and in inin the opposite season in terms
of other clubs, in terms ofother organizations?
But to me, it always goes backto you know, where are you
struggling?
What do you want?
And then obviously budget alwayscomes into mind or comes into
play pretty soon thereafter.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
You you kind of you know uh started talking about
it, you know, uh opposite seasonpartner clubs.
What makes a good oppositeseason partner club?
SPEAKER_03 (25:51):
I'll take that one because it's the core of what
Seasonal Connect does.
Um so when when clubs arelooking for an opposite season
recruiting partner, um, there'sa few things they should look
for.
The first, which I think is themost obvious and usually what
people are focusing on, is thattheir dates lineup.
So, you know, if I work at aclub um in New England from
(26:14):
April 1st, I have workers fromApril 1st to October 31st.
Ideally, I'm finding, you know,a ski mountain that has that
starts um November 1st and endsMarch 31st.
Now that's hard to find.
It's hard to find people thatline up exactly with you.
Um, but that's what everyone'slooking for.
From there, though, I thinkthere's a few other things.
(26:36):
Um, the first is beingcommunicative, so making sure
your partner's willing to chatwith you about how things are
going and what they need.
Um, and also listening to whatyour club needs as well is
important.
Um, I also think for thesepartnerships, it's talking about
the the culture and making surethat the right workers for your
(26:57):
club um are working at yourpartner club.
So it may it your dates mightline up, but if they're just
warm bodies that aren't gonnafit nicely into your club, it's
it's not gonna work long term.
If you have similar philosophiesand are looking for, you know,
similar um calipers of workersand and have a good cohesive
(27:18):
team, I think that goes a longway and could really create this
long-standing relationshipbetween your club and your your
partner club.
SPEAKER_01 (27:28):
How do you how do clubs then how do you avoid
competing with like yourfriends' clubs for the same
workers?
SPEAKER_03 (27:36):
That's a good question.
I mean, one thing we always sayis not to put all of your eggs
in one basket.
And that that's kind of twofold.
Sometimes when we're sayingthat, we're saying don't just
work with a recruiter, don'tjust work with seasonal connect,
don't just go out on your own.
It is like a a puzzle.
I think there's different waysto recruit.
Um, but in terms of yourpartners, it's also don't just
(27:58):
partner with one or two clubsand assume that their needs are
gonna be the same every yearbecause people's dates change,
they might um decrease thenumber of HTB workers that they
they need in the future, and soreally just spreading that net
wide and partnering with amyriad of clubs can can help
diversify that staffing.
And then I think you're nottaking uh your partner club's
(28:21):
entire staff, you know.
Maybe you're you're able to takethree servers and they might
have ten working there, and sothen your your friends at other
clubs could maybe have the otherseven servers that that work
there.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Well, and the reality is you're totally
competing against your friends,right?
Like that's that's the reality.
Because the the workers havefree will, and so you can't take
that away from them and youcan't force where they go.
Um, and so understanding that insome ways it is a free-for-all.
You have to be your ownadvocate, you have to go get the
(28:56):
workers.
And so, um, because your friendis totally trying to come in,
and and whether or not they knowyou're also trying to get the
same workers, they're they'reall everyone's trying to do it.
So one of the other mistakes Imake that I see made a lot in
the club world is um I'm gonnastart that over, Denny.
One of the one of the bigmistakes that I see in the club
world is uh that there arecertain clubs that I think are
(29:21):
just very well known.
And they're kind of like theseuh goal, like a lot of
organizations and clubs havethese goals of getting to know
them and recruit with them.
And what I watch is that we havethe same we see the same clubs
going after the same feworganizations to recruit with.
And if they spread out their neta little bit uh a little bit
(29:44):
wider and they talk to someother organizations and got to
know some new people, they wouldbe in a such such a better place
because even if a club files forhundreds of people, if if
everyone's trying to get thesame hundred people, that the
people go pretty quickly.
So you are recruiting.
As your friends, having a widenetwork is incredibly important.
And you got to sell yourselfbecause there's no way to just
(30:06):
go to one club and say, hey,Carly, I want all your workers.
It just doesn't work that way.
SPEAKER_03 (30:11):
Well, and be a good partner, right?
I think if you're a good partnerclub to your opposite seasoned
recruiting partner, then the perthe club that you are working
with can really advocate foryou.
And of course the workers havefree will, as Teese mentioned,
but um I think a lot of theworkers listen to what their
(30:32):
club says about other clubs.
And so your partner can reallyspeak to the culture at your
club or how responsive you areor how wonderful it is to work
there.
So I think just being a goodgood employer and good partner
in general can also go a longway.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Yeah.
Which is also, you know, I'malways an advocate for clubs
posting on social media anddoing all, you know, having good
cultures and promoting it andtalking about it.
So I'm sure that just helps.
Um and I'm sure there's probablysome clubs where you have people
fighting to work there, and I'msure you have clubs that people
are fighting to leave and theycan't get people.
I'm sure you have the wholegambit.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Yes, absolutely.
It goes back to that same focus,right?
Like the ones who are takingthat time to post on social
media are probably really greatplaces to work.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
If if a club had had a choose, you know, really
investing in one area forretention, housing culture,
wages, career path, you know,what do you think has the
highest ROI?
Wages.
SPEAKER_03 (31:34):
Wages up there, and then very closely behind, I
would say, culture.
I think a lot of what we hear isemployers weren't treating them
well, the club, you know, theclub didn't care about them.
Um, and then they leave andthey're more than likely not
gonna come back.
And not only that, but this is anetwork that is huge on word of
(31:57):
mouth.
And so if you don't treatworkers well, they're gonna tell
their friends, they're gonnatell their family, and that
spreads like wildfire.
So I think team culture and justtreatment of workers is is
closely behind wages.
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
Yeah, I don't think you're gonna have the
conversation about culturethough, if the wages doesn't
have some level of fairness andequity to it.
But I agree with what Carlysaid.
Wages to me is kind of a it goeswithout saying.
You have to pay peoplecompetitively in your market.
It doesn't mean that you have topay the most in the industry,
but you have to pay peoplefairly in your market.
(32:31):
But then it immediately goes toculture.
Because I'm saying this as animmigration lawyer.
Right now it's really hard forpeople to go home.
And it's very hard, I shouldn'tsay that, it's actually very
easy to go home.
It's very hard to come back.
And so to get back into theUnited States.
And so a lot of the workers arechoosing to stay right now, and
if they're not feeling likeyou're watching out for them and
(32:51):
you're gonna take care of k takecare of them, and frankly, just
most of all feel valued, thewhole thing falls apart.
I don't care how much you'repaying people.
It uh you gotta treat peoplewell.
SPEAKER_01 (33:01):
Do you ever just like separate yourself from some
clubs or some clients or somedoes it can it or has it gotten
to a point where you just theculture was just bad, you
couldn't like literally couldnot get people to go and go
there and work?
SPEAKER_02 (33:15):
So we do.
We actually we we do.
I don't talk about it a lot.
We we we do um we do fireclients pretty regularly at this
point.
Um what I will we do it for wedon't we I can think of maybe
one or two situations where wehave fired a client because of
(33:35):
the way that they treat workers.
Generally, I try I think I'm I'ma pretty good judge of that at
the outset in terms of of peoplebeing nice people, and that's
always one of my prerequisites.
I I don't want to work withjerks.
Um I want to work with nice,nice and smart people is who we
hire and who we want to workwith.
(33:57):
Um where we've where we let goof clients is when they're not
treating my team well.
And I think that's usually agood barometer anyway, of just
internal culture.
I think there's usually somehabits that you see, but um we
try to I I would say the betteranswer is probably we really try
to flush that out at the outsetbecause I don't I think we uh I
(34:22):
don't think any of us want towork with jerks, and I think
that we want to work withorganizations that really do
view people as human beings.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
Are there any like red flags that you see or that
are kind of like what are yourlike things you're like, eh,
it's probably not gonna be agood fit.
SPEAKER_02 (34:40):
Do you have any, Carly, while I try to think of
some answers?
SPEAKER_03 (34:42):
Yeah, I was gonna say on on my end, I think it's
people that work at the club,the HR folks that are, you know,
gonna be in charge of workingwith the the immigration law
firm on HGBs, talking aboutworkers like their cattle or
objects, saying, you know,saying things like, um, I need I
(35:04):
need 30 of them, or you know,like I think they I don't know
how to phrase it better, but wehear we hear people talk about
them like they're not humanbeings, and to me that is a huge
red flag.
That shows me that you want awarm body, you don't care who it
is, and you're not gonna betaking very good care of them.
So for me, that's I think whatstands out the most.
SPEAKER_02 (35:25):
Yeah, I I feel like so much of my vetting is how
people talk, how peoplecommunicate, responsiveness
right from the start is big tome.
But I'm also watching a lot ofhow serious are people about
learning and about ongoingeducation and then as kind of
(35:47):
working towards the compliancepiece.
Because it it just it all goestogether towards having a good
program.
Like if if you're not gonnalearn and care about the rules,
you're also not setting yourprogram up to be successful in
any way, including having a goodexperience for the workers.
So um, but yeah, I think uhCarl, I think you made some
great points.
But I think we're I think we'rewe're both very attuned at the
(36:10):
outset to what's gonna make areally good partnership and a
good relationship from a clientside.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
This stuff goes like deep.
SPEAKER_03 (36:25):
It does.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work, and um justto add to what Keith said too, I
think it's knowing that nomatter how long you do this
process, you have to be investedyear after year to continue to
work to improve it, to continueto get feedback and to evolve
and change as the needs of theworkers change and as the
(36:47):
environment that you're you'reoperating in changes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
Yeah.
What what do you think, or whatdo you wish maybe m GMs or
boards understood before theystarted the the the process of
it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:03):
We can't control everything.
And we are operating in a veryum really tough immigration
world right now that that thingsare constantly shifting.
So like I know at this year'sevent we talked a lot about at
our staffing summit this year,we talked about um you know,
just understanding that thingsshift and and that you need to
(37:26):
just keep learning and and andparticipating.
Um also there are certain timesin the program where you do have
to pivot or at least like haveconversations and see if you do
need to pivot.
Um I always think of the theprogram as a game of shoots and
ladders, and sometimes you doneed to take a step backwards to
take the the many steps forwardafter that.
(37:49):
And you know, it's not just youfill out a forum and you get
workers tomorrow.
Like I I think GMs and boardsmiss out on that a lot, and I
shouldn't say a lot.
I think clubs are usually prettygood, so the boards, right?
Like when you have like retiredlawyers, it's it's sometimes
they have opinions on how thingsshould work.
But it it really process.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
We're also in a very like you know, you can get
things quick culture.
Yes, it doesn't matter how oldyou are, young or old, you know,
we have that's like, oh, can'tget it in like a day or two,
it's gonna take weeks?
Yeah, weeks?
Like, you know, so I think forthem to people have to wait for
like a weeks or like a month,like what?
SPEAKER_02 (38:28):
Totally, totally.
Yeah, there's no instantgratification here.
Um but the other thing, I'll sayfrom a GM standpoint, and most
most private club GMs arefantastic at this, but the GM
needs to know what's going on,but they should not be the one
doing this process.
They need to trust their HRperson, their controller.
Uh when the GM is involved, Ijust I always cringe, not
(38:51):
because I mean GMs arefantastic, but they have so many
other things that they should bedoing versus a process that's
pretty work-intensive on anongoing basis for six months of
the year.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
GM stay out.
SPEAKER_02 (39:07):
GM stay out.
Be part of the planning and thenstep out.
SPEAKER_01 (39:13):
And and and I'm sure there must be some amazing
rewarding aspects to all ofthis, too.
You know, between helping clubssolve the problem and then also,
you know, when you have likethat really great connection of
people, you know, staff andworkers, you really create that
like bond and that experiencethat's just great for everybody.
(39:34):
It's like, uh, like the thetrifecta, you know, it's like
everybody wins and everyone'shappy.
And Power Rangers unite, likeeveryone puts their fists in.
SPEAKER_03 (39:45):
It's so true though, because the club, then the club
has what they need to operatesmoothly.
They're giving a greatexperience, the members are
happy.
And then for the workers, Imean, these clubs are changing
their lives.
A lot of these workers arecoming here and sending every
dime they make home.
And it's, you know, this is areal um, a really important
(40:06):
situation for them to be in.
And they're they're sacrificinga lot to come to the US and do
these jobs.
And so I think when a clubtreats them well and does a good
job of the program, they'rechanging the lives of these
people that are here um on theHTB visa.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Well, and it's changing the lives of the people
on staff, right?
All these all the people who arealready there get to meet all
these incredible people.
The workers that come aregenerally some of the best and
hardworking people they have.
And all of a sudden, even duringvery busy seasons for the
seasonal clubs, people get to gohome at night and see their
families, and they're notworking a trillion hours.
Um, except for the workaholicswho work a trillion hours no
(40:45):
matter what.
But everyone gets to everyonegets some help and it creates
stability, it createsreliability in in service and in
on a daily basis with staffing.
And I don't know, it's it'swin-win-win.
SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
Once somebody is at a club, do they have the ability
and option to like keep couldyou can they keep going back?
Can people keep re-requestingthe same ones?
SPEAKER_02 (41:09):
And theoretically, there are some barriers more and
more for everybody becausethere's numerical caps and
limits, but that's wherestrategy comes into play, and
that's where this program isdefinitely the HTB program,
especially, is it's designed forthat.
It's just that it takes somestrategy and sometimes requires
some flexibility, or maybetaking a year away from that
(41:30):
person hoping to bring them backto the self-support season.
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
Gotcha.
Anything uh you guys wanted toadd or bring up.
SPEAKER_03 (41:45):
That's a good question.
Uh no, I think for me it'sreally just I can't stress
enough the importance of theserecruiting relationships with
clubs that have the oppositebusy season.
I think sometimes when peopleare new to this, they think it's
(42:07):
like any old recruiting wherethey're just gonna post a job
and get workers and it's you'regonna fail, in my opinion, if
you do that.
Um it's important to form theserelationships and to network and
to find clubs that are that havea similar mindset and and treat
their workers, you know, well,so that you're creating you're
(42:27):
finding them in the workers inlarger numbers, but you're also
providing, like you said, thatum ability for them to come back
and go back and forth and havesome stability as a worker as
well.
And so I think um you're savingyourself time in the future
essentially by forming thosepartnerships early on and
continuing to grow them.
SPEAKER_02 (42:47):
I'll say one thing.
From my perspective, there'sthis perception sometimes that
HTBs are really hard or the HTBprocess is really hard.
And I'm not minimizing thatsentiment.
It is a lot of work, it's it cancost a decent amount of money.
(43:07):
But what we've been doing overthe last few years, and Carly
alluded to this, and you usedsome some really interesting
statistics, Carly, what when youwere talking today.
If when we're watching clientsuse data and information and
kind of take things as they comeand then look reflecting back on
that data and information, it'sallowing organizations to have
(43:31):
so much more predictability andsuccess in the program.
And so we've really been tryingto share as much as we can with
our clients around statisticsand information and data.
And I have never seen clients beso happy and so and feel like
this program is going so well,even though demand for HTVs is
(43:54):
at an all-time high.
So it's this weird paradox wherethere's more organizations
applying than ever before.
But if you're understandingwhat's happening on an ongoing
basis and using that data andinformation, there's real
opportunities to make this asuccess a successful program for
someone's club.
SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
It's definitely not a set it in and forget it, it's
gonna take work.
SPEAKER_02 (44:16):
Yeah, but but it's it doesn't have to be too much.
It just as long as they'reparticipating on an ongoing
basis, it's that.
It's not like you have to sitdown with a buck and every night
it's multiple hours of homework.
SPEAKER_03 (44:28):
But it's the same sentiment with recruiting.
Like they can't just post a joband walk away.
I think because there's so muchcompetition for these workers,
it really it's an ongoingprocess they need to invest in
and continue investing in ifthey want to be successful.
SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
That was that was all of my my my my goodies.
Um anything else?
SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
I assume this is gonna be the best webinar ever,
in your opinion?
SPEAKER_03 (45:01):
Podcast, but yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
Sorry, um, I did a lot of things.
SPEAKER_02 (45:09):
Wow.
Can we call this the ocho?
SPEAKER_03 (45:13):
The ocho.
The H2B Ocho.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
The Ocho.
Sounds like a bad like linedance at like the honky chunk or
something.
The olcho.
What's that?
That's the olcho.
SPEAKER_03 (45:30):
Oh, it really does.
SPEAKER_01 (45:34):
Oh man.
As much as I I might make it theocho, that'd be really funny.
SPEAKER_03 (45:39):
That'd be hilarious.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
That's really good.
Uh so okay, so I'm I'm justgonna wrap it up, but don't
leave.
Uh thank you guys so much forcoming on.
Thank you for sharing abouteach.
I just love learning about likenew stuff too, and you answer
some of my questions, and gladyou're able to come on and share
with the other Club World spaceas well.
SPEAKER_02 (45:58):
Thank you for having us.
Thanks so much, Denny.
SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
Carly and Keith, thank you forcoming on and sharing and giving
back to the community.
That's this episode.
I'm your host, Denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club
(00:02):
Radio Show, where we give youthe scoop on all things, private
golf and country clubs, frommastering leadership and
management, food and beverageexcellence, never engagement
secrets, board governance, andeverything in between, all while
keeping it fun and light.
Whether you're a club veteran,just getting your feet wet, or
somewhere in the middle, you arein the right place.
I'm your host, Debbie Corby.
(00:22):
Welcome to the show.
In this episode, I am chattingwith Carly Eglin and Keith
Pabian, both from SeasonalConnect and Keith with Seasonal
Connect and Pabian Law, butwe're going over everything
seasonal staffing.
We're talking about what clubsusually get wrong before they
even start, what workers reallycare about, and spoiler alert,
it's wages, culture, and housingin that order.
(00:45):
But we also talk about how youcan get creative with your
housing solutions and what otherclubs are doing to get creative
and why it's not just aboutpaychecks, but also about break
rooms and culture and how youset up your H2B Visa program
without losing your mind.
So we are just diving all intoseasonal staffing, H2B, and how
(01:08):
to make the most out of thatprogram.
Now, I first got connected withCarly and Keith.
Well, we've known each other fora while, but they invited me to
their staffing summit, which isa really cool event.
Uh, it was in the summer.
I was the evening entertainmentthe one night.
Uh, but what they do is theybring together seasonal
hospitality organizations,clubs, hotels, and get people
(01:32):
chatting.
There's talks, there's breakoutsessions, there's there's
panels, and it's all thingscollaborating, solving
challenges, industry topics,everything about seasonal
staffing and hospitality.
So I got to pop into some of thesessions, and it was really cool
to see what they had cooking.
And it was an even cooler partto be a part of it.
(01:53):
But uh, once I saw what they hadgoing on, I was like, oh, we
have to do a fun episode on allthings seasonal staffing.
So this is what we have here.
Really great conversation.
Before we get to it, quick thankyou to some of our show
partners.
Without them, the show would notbe possible.
You're gonna hear their ads,you're gonna see us connect with
them.
If you're interested in theirproducts or their services,
(02:15):
reach out, let them know, hey,you appreciate their support on
private club radio.
And even if they're existingsuppliers and vendors and people
of yours, reach out and say,hey, we appreciate you
supporting private club radio.
In one shameless plug formyself, the Denny Corby
experience.
There's excitement, there'smystery, also there's magic,
mind reading, and comedy, a tonof laughs, gasps, and holy
(02:36):
craps.
2026 is booking and gettingfull.
2025, everything but December issold out.
Reach on out dennycorby.com.
Enough about that, though.
Let's get to the episode.
Private club radio listeners.
Let's welcome Carly Eglin andKeith Pavian from Seasonal
Connect and Pavian Law.
Give us a peek behind thecurtain of Seasonal Connect and
(02:58):
Pavian Law.
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
Sure.
So thanks so much for having us,Denny.
We're excited to be here.
Um I'm Carly Eglin.
I am the co-founder and CEO ofSeasonal Connect.
Um, Seasonal Connect launchedabout four years ago and um is
the sister company to PabianLaw.
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
And I am Keith Pabian.
Uh huge thanks, Denny.
Uh I am the only founder ofPabian Law.
Uh, we started back in 2013 andwe uh help private clubs and
other hospitality organizationswith H2B visas and year-round
options.
So we are a hospitalityimmigration law firm.
SPEAKER_01 (03:36):
Got you.
What do you what do you thinkmost clubs get wrong about
seasonal staffing before theyeven start the entire process?
SPEAKER_03 (03:44):
I think a lot of them don't think they're
seasonal or don't realize howseasonal they are.
Um, a lot of people thinkseasonal and think that they
shut down for a portion of theyear, but um that's not
necessarily true at all.
And so I think that's one of thebiggest misconceptions.
And then also I think not allclubs understand what an H2B
(04:07):
visa is and what kind of peopleare working on them if they're
not familiar with that kind ofvisa.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Do you do you want to go oh god?
So I was gonna say, do you wantto go in quick and dive in?
Like what is that?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
Um I a lot of the clubs that they think that
there's more time to startplanning.
So, you know, it's so hard.
They they're grinding with withwhatever their season is, and
the season is either just comingto an end or still going when
they have to really startthinking about how to how to do
things, when to start, how tostart, how to do it right.
(04:39):
And then we can talk about thismore, but the there's so many
clubs that just continue tofollow the same way of doing
things that they think need tobe done, and there's a lot more
cost-effective and frankly justbetter ways of doing things if
the if they're open to tryingnew things.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
What are they what are they currently doing now, or
what what's a common I don'twant to say problem, but like
what's a common speed bump orhiccup that you kind of see
happening most most often?
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
Well, it's crazy in this in this environment, right?
That the the p politically, uhthe government has allocated so
much money into immigrationenforcement and um I immigration
customs enforcement.
ICE is now the biggest federaluh enforcement agency at the
government.
And uh using recruiters and andusing these these agencies where
(05:33):
they're so focused on findingpeople, but they're not
necessarily paying to what therules are, paying attention to
what the rules are, is just suchuh oversight.
And and I think just it has thisantiquated model where you're
where some clubs are still usingrecruiters to do the legal work
or they're talking to them aboutuh they're they're the primary
interface between the club andthe worker, and they're not ever
(05:56):
actually talking to a law firmor they're not actually looking
at compliance on a day-to-daybasis.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
What are what are some of the repercussions, like
what are some things that couldhappen?
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
I mean under um in the first Trump administration,
uh just criminal prosecutionsalone quintupled.
Um, and in the first hundreddays, that same trend happened.
Um the government now has theability to use its discretion to
automatically deny petitions.
Um we're hearing about ICEcamping out outside of some
(06:26):
clubs and pulling workers overas they're leaving and making
sure they have papers.
Um raids are back in vogue after20-something years.
Uh there's a lot ofrepercussions, and there's a lot
of eyeballs on this on thisworld right now.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
The last thing you want is eyeballs on your club
with the big, big black Humveesand expeditions, and excursions,
and Taos.
SPEAKER_02 (06:49):
Yes, and helicopters apparently too.
SPEAKER_01 (06:52):
Blackhawks coming in.
SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
Well, and I think even the workers that are are
here legally are really nervous.
Um, we surveyed them last month,and I think it was over
two-thirds of them feel nervousworking in the US.
Um, and so I think that presencetoo is impacting the workers,
which is just further creating achallenge for the clubs in terms
(07:16):
of staffing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
So so what are some ways to ease that, or what are
you seeing, you know, in termsof like data and just where like
everything's going?
How are how are the good ones, Idon't want to say taking
advantage of a bad situation,but like how are they how are
they staying strong and makingsure that they don't feel that
and that it's a good successfulprogram?
SPEAKER_03 (07:38):
That's a good question.
I mean, I think knowledge ispower, and I think naming it for
the workers can be helpful.
I think if you're a club and youhave H2B workers, I think you
need to be talking about what'sgoing on right now.
And it doesn't have to beextremely political by any
means.
It can be pretty diplomatic, butjust making them aware of the
(07:59):
things they need to be doing inorder to um, you know, show that
they're here in legal status andyou know what to do if for some
reason I showed up at the cluband just kind of name that for
them and and reassure them andreally give them some guidelines
so that they um have a sense ofwhat would happen and and why
(08:20):
they're gonna be okay and whatthat looks like.
SPEAKER_02 (08:24):
Yeah, and I I also I mean, using a lawyer, right, for
any legal process that that goeswithout saying whether it's us
or someone else, even thoughthey should obviously use us.
Um but the other piece of it isand and it's it's it's engaging
in in programs like this.
People need to stay educated andthey need to understand what's
going on.
And uh I just think educationand and learning uh is just so
(08:49):
important right now.
It just it it's where we seeorganizations either either
succeed or fail on a dailybasis.
SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Yeah.
Do you mean even almost havelike I hate the word like
role-playing, but like, hey, ifsomething were to happen, here's
uh like here's the correctthings and what to say and what
to have ready and I think that Ithink it's yes, it's that, and
we're actually doing a webinaron that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
But even like I'm looking at it on my desk right
now, we every two weeks now wesend out to clients just all the
different things that havechanged in the last two weeks
because of government shifts andgovernment changes and new
policy implementations.
And just taking the time tolearn and to understand what's
happening is just so key, ratherthan just assuming like
nothing's changing andeverything's gonna always be the
(09:35):
same.
Interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
What uh what's like another ho is is is wages and
housing a big a big topic?
SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Yes, um, absolutely.
I think wages, so it's funny, wewere hearing a lot about housing
and we were reading data thathousing had surpassed um just
staffing in general in terms ofwhat's giving clubs the most
trouble.
Um, but when Seasonal Connectsurveyed the workers in
particular, they were sayingwages are most important to
(10:07):
them, then their team culture,and then housing.
So I think there's a little bitof a mismatch with what the
workers are looking for and thenwhere the clubs are struggling.
Um but housing and wages aredefinitely in the top three.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
Yeah, because cause you you guys collect all the
info on on that from like allthe parties also.
SPEAKER_03 (10:26):
Yes.
We're trying to get we're tryingto give members access to data
so they can understand how theystack up against other clubs and
you know, have some insight intowhat's going on in the industry
in general.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
Yeah.
So I think this economy's weirdright now.
I I was saying this to someonetoday that it's really hard to
figure it out, but in the worldof private clubs, it seems like
the people that have money arestill spending, and and that
means that the club still needsstaff.
But where I think the economy isweird is I think there's there
are more people available andlooking for jobs than there were
(11:01):
um a few years ago.
But I mean, Carly, you you talka lot about finding the right
worker and making sure thatclubs have the right individual
working for them has been huge.
SPEAKER_03 (11:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think one other thingthat's worth mentioning is um
for wages, these clubs haveraised their wages exponentially
since the pandemic, buthospitality still pays the
lowest wages in all of theindustries in the US.
So wages are huge, but I thinkhousing is a huge like up if
(11:35):
they're able to provide it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Denny, am I allowed to ask you questions?
Are you um are you hearing clubstalk about like the no tax on
tip policy at all?
SPEAKER_01 (11:47):
Uh not not in my conversations.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
Because I I think that's gonna be I know a lot of
clubs seem to be worried aboutthat.
And that's gonna be an issue,right?
It's already so hard to findgood hospitality workers.
But if if a club is nearer, andthey seem they all are, right?
If there's a high-end restaurantup the street, and that high-end
restaurant probably allowstipping, a lot of clubs do not
(12:13):
have uh tipping policies.
And so it's gonna make it reallyhard to attract good workers as
that policy keeps coming into oras it takes effect and as it
really I think as workersunderstand that they can make
more money if they go down thestreet and work for that
restaurant or that hotel.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Yeah.
I'm sure I I think some willprobably stick to their guns,
others might adapt, or you know,you I think just like anybody,
if you figure it out, each eachclub's a little bit different.
Uh you know.
SPEAKER_02 (12:43):
I've seen clubs already starting to shift.
So not all.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Yeah.
Well, there I mean, there'sthere's always a creative
solution for everything.
Yes.
Um, so so how you know, sospeaking of creative solutions,
then how do you see and kind ofgoing back to like handling the
the housing, uh, how are clubshandling housing and like what
are maybe some creativeresources or solutions that
you've seen work for ones thathave had you know unique
(13:07):
situations or maybe not the bestscenarios?
SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
So some of them have housing, and I think those are
the lucky ones.
Um, others are building housingor building with other clubs in
the area.
Um, if these clubs are in anarea I'll use like Naples,
Florida, for example, wherethere's just so many clubs, you
know, together in this part ofthe country, um, some of them
are actually going in onproperties together and
(13:32):
splitting the cost and splittingthe rooms.
And so that's something we'veseen more and more of,
especially since the pandemic.
Um we also there's a number ofcompanies that help with
housing.
Um, Seasonal Connect has a fewpartners that help with it.
And then one thing that we'veseen with the workers is even if
the clubs don't have housing,just pointing them in the right
(13:54):
direction goes a long way.
Um, instead of just saying, hey,we don't have any, and kind of
leaving it to them, saying, youknow, the last year workers look
lived here, or we talked to thiscompany and they have rooms
available.
Just some kind of direction forthe workers.
SPEAKER_02 (14:10):
Yeah, we did at our staffing summit um that we do
every year, we we always do somelevel of polling and try to give
everyone a snapshot of what'sgoing on.
Um, I've noticed in the last fewyears we've seen a big increase
in clubs that own their ownhousing.
And so that's definitely beenbeen something that they've
looked at.
(14:30):
You know, it also depends onwhere the clubs are, right?
If there's publictransportation, it allows for a
larger circumference of where toput the workers.
Um but I always tellorganizations, I think it's a
mistake to go down any level ofinternational staffing if they
can't tell people where they'regonna live and how they're gonna
get to work, regardless of ifthey own their own housing.
SPEAKER_03 (14:50):
I agree.
And we are seeing um the commutetimes for workers getting longer
because housing may not be inthe same area as the club and
they have to push out um to findit.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
What are you know I it's kind of going into like the
world of like you know, values?
What do what do the what do theworkers themselves value the
most?
Like, you know, you you haveyour ear to the ground on both
the clubs and the workers.
What what are what are thethings that the workers value?
SPEAKER_03 (15:21):
In general, um, they were saying wages and we
surveyed them.
Wages was definitely number one.
Um and I thought housing wouldbe number two, but it was
actually their team culture.
A lot of them said they want towork with people who are kind
and are also hardworking.
They want to work with um peoplethat are motivating and really
just a team that they want tocome back to.
(15:42):
And then the third thing thatthey valued was housing.
Um, and whether it was havinghousing, affordable housing, or
just an employer that helps withhousing to some degree, even if
they don't have it, those werethe big three that the workers
really cared about.
Um, but we could talk abouthousing, that could be a whole
(16:03):
podcast.
Um there's so much there.
SPEAKER_02 (16:08):
When I go to different clubs, because I I
visit a lot as part of my job.
It's so easy to see who thesuccessful people are with
staffing, or the successfulclubs, who the successful ones
are with staffing, and who arethe ones that are struggling.
And the way I always look at itis you just look at the employee
breakers, right?
(16:28):
And um, the ones that thatreally value the workers and and
can and and have set up a roomwhere the workers can take that
breath and they feel comfortableand they're they're and they're
taking the time to also show offdifferent cultures, those are
the ones that every time doincredibly well with the
program.
And it's not because they makethey invest the money in the in
the in the break room, it'sbecause it the break room is
(16:50):
indicative of how they'retreating the workers overall.
But wages is always going to behuge, right?
Every every that is a hugething.
I would also say with wagescomes overtime, right?
Like how much overtime isavailable and the time and a
half and all that.
But even if a club is not thehighest paying one, if they take
the time to invest in thatworker, show them that they
(17:11):
care, treat them like a humanbeing, and really take that
extra step, they're they'redoing incredibly well with their
international program.
And frankly, they're juststaffing overall.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
Are people willing to take less if like housing and
culture are good?
So if a club knows it maybecan't pay the best, but it knows
it could at least give them goodhousing or good housing options
and they have a good culture,it's almost like it'll negate
number one.
They almost can like get awaywith sometimes not having you
know the the the best pay, butit's like, hey, we got a great
(17:42):
culture and like your housing'staken care of.
No.
Um what uh what's like what'slike the average cost of how to
house somebody or for someone topay?
Like, how does that work?
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
It's all over the map, Keith.
What are you hearing?
Because I feel like you mightsee this more than I do.
SPEAKER_02 (17:58):
Yeah, I mean, it depends on where you are, right?
So if you're in an area where umthere is no housing available,
like I always think of islands,come comes to mind with this.
Um, the club might be fullysubsidizing the cost of housing,
um, or charging very, very, verylittle.
Like it might be like 25 bucks apaper just to the worker has
some skin in the game.
(18:19):
Um but I would say it's usuallyabout like 800 to 1,000 a month,
is kind of what we see with forlike a double room.
Um, but that's on average, it'sit really is all over the place.
Um and Danny, to your questionfrom a second ago, it really is
like we always talk aboutrecruiting is also marketing.
You have to market your club.
(18:39):
That includes when you're tryingto hire staff, and it's
highlighting the good, it'sbeing honest about the bad, but
it's it's talking about you knowwhat what you're getting by
coming to us.
And I I always think of this.
We have um, you know, everyonehas their limitations.
Like it might be that housing isreally close to you versus like
another place where they have tobe in the car for two hours to
get to to work.
(19:00):
Um or it might be that um youcan dime you can you can show a
diagram of of when you're gonnaearn overtime and and all the
overtime amounts that you'regonna earn.
And so the more that you'rehighlighting your strengths
while also being strategic abouthighlighting your weaknesses as
well, so that you're beingtransparent and not running into
(19:21):
all these uh threats of uh ornot threats, but uh allegations
of false promises once theworker shows up, that that's how
you that's how you put your bestfoot forward.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
What are some what are the wages at?
What should people expect towhat are the what are the rates
that people are at now?
SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
It definitely varies by position.
What do you think, Keith?
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
I think the same answer is really geographically
uh uh dependent.
But yeah, go ahead, Curly.
SPEAKER_03 (19:49):
Yeah, and position dependent.
Um I think there's certainpositions that are on the higher
end, and then there's othersthat don't quite make as much.
But like you said, Keith, itdepends on where the club is
located.
Um and it depends, I think, howbig the club is.
Um that can have an effect andhow their their membership is
set up.
It really it's so individual tothe club.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah, but I'll say this to me, it goes back to your
US wages because with a lot ofthe international programs, you
have to pay them internationalsthe same as the Americans and
vice versa.
If you're underpaying in yourmarket and that's why you're not
attracting people, the work thethe international workers are
gonna know that you'reunderpaying in your market and
they're not gonna want to workwith you.
And so if you're paying fairwages, you're probably gonna be
(20:33):
okay, even because keep in minduh there are always there's
always gonna be clubs that arepaying more than you, right?
Everyone that that is gonnaalways be an issue.
But if you can also, as part ofthe marketing during during
hiring, if you can talk aboutcost of living and how you might
not be paying the most, but it'snot the most expensive to live
where you are and you're gonnabe able to put that money away,
(20:53):
that that's a huge key to bringthat the people into your club
as well.
SPEAKER_03 (20:57):
That's a massive thing.
If they if you can show them asa club, if you can show the
workers that the cost of livingis lower when your wages are
might be a little bit lower, youthey can kind of see that it
balances out.
And now we're hearing too, a lotof them have picked up on how
expensive medical um costs arehere.
So if you're offering that as abenefit, a lot of them are
(21:20):
looking for that as well, inaddition to the wage and the
housing costs.
SPEAKER_01 (21:24):
I was waiting for Keith to say something.
All right.
Um what's the hardest part abouta club starting or restarting an
H2B visa program?
Like, because I I I would assumea lot of clubs have bad first
experiences, or they try and youknow they've worked with just
you know people who are just offor just don't know how to do it
(21:46):
well themselves, so they justget like a bad, a bad taste in
their mouth.
If, or maybe it's a club justlike overwhelmed.
What are what are steps that aclub could take to like get the
ball rolling?
SPEAKER_02 (21:57):
Yeah, well, so two things.
So one is the timelines areincredibly important.
And if you start too late, itjust piles up on you, and
there's a point that you justcan't move forward because
there's all these deadlines.
So I always say if you're asummer season club, right, like
April, May, June start date, wealways start work in
mid-September, which is verysoon.
Um, if you are a winter seasonclub, like South Florida,
(22:20):
Southern Arizona, NarraskiMountain, Ana Ski Mountain, um,
we start those in mid-March.
So mid-September for summer,mid-March for winter.
Second thing is when you'restarting the program, one of the
hardest parts for a neworganization is you have to take
leaps of faith while you'restarting the program.
And so meaning that if we'restarting the process in
(22:42):
mid-September for an April orMay start date, and a club is
just starting out, unless theyalready have staff housing,
they're not gonna know wherepeople are gonna live.
They might not know how muchhousing is gonna cost, they're
not gonna have all the answers,right?
And and one of the things Ialways say is the process kind
of just builds upon itself, likelayer by layer.
And so you don't need all theanswers when you start.
But taking that leap of faiththat we know we're gonna do the
(23:04):
program and we're gonna takesteps together, but we might not
know all the answers right now,including who the workers are,
that is, I think, just it itgoes against like common sense a
little bit, and it's hard towrap your head around the first
year.
SPEAKER_03 (23:17):
I would say too, they need to have a learning
mindset.
The process is so nuanced, andif clubs or the people working
on the H2B petitions from theclub are hungry for information
and you know, keeping up on thewebinars that Pavy and Law
offers or what's going on withH2Bs, I think they're more
(23:41):
likely to grasp the biggerconcepts of the program because
they're kind of immersingthemselves in that that world
and really rather than just youknow rapid firing some answers
over to their attorney, they'rereally trying to understand the
why behind why we're askingthese things, which can help
(24:02):
them.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
That's where seasonal connect is so helpful.
I I I I I wish that we couldforce clubs to sign up like
right at the start, becausegetting a a lay for the land is
so helpful, and that's wherethat that that platform can
really give clubs that leg up asthey're trying to learn
modeling.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
What are like then questions managers should be
then asking themselves aboutseasonal staffing?
Because you know, you you you'rekind of touching on it.
They're like, what are like theimportant questions they should
be asking themselves aboutthemselves, their staffing,
their program, their club?
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
So I always start with where are you hurting the
most?
Um I'm a huge advocate ofstarting small and not just like
rushing into the program.
So where are you hurting most?
What are the roles that you'rehurting most with?
Um they're usually the samepositions.
Um it's usually grounds, foodand beverage, um, you know,
front desk has been a big onethis year.
(24:56):
Um and then it's what do youwant?
Like forget about everything youknow or any preconceived
notions.
Like, what do you what do youwant?
What would allow you to giveyour members and their guests
the the experience that you wantto be giving them and that they
that they that they want?
And then let's talk about it.
And and um, you know, it goesinto when do you want the
(25:19):
workers with you?
You know, do you have peoplethey already want?
Do you have partners and in inin the opposite season in terms
of other clubs, in terms ofother organizations?
But to me, it always goes backto you know, where are you
struggling?
What do you want?
And then obviously budget alwayscomes into mind or comes into
play pretty soon thereafter.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
You you kind of you know uh started talking about
it, you know, uh opposite seasonpartner clubs.
What makes a good oppositeseason partner club?
SPEAKER_03 (25:51):
I'll take that one because it's the core of what
Seasonal Connect does.
Um so when when clubs arelooking for an opposite season
recruiting partner, um, there'sa few things they should look
for.
The first, which I think is themost obvious and usually what
people are focusing on, is thattheir dates lineup.
So, you know, if I work at aclub um in New England from
(26:14):
April 1st, I have workers fromApril 1st to October 31st.
Ideally, I'm finding, you know,a ski mountain that has that
starts um November 1st and endsMarch 31st.
Now that's hard to find.
It's hard to find people thatline up exactly with you.
Um, but that's what everyone'slooking for.
From there, though, I thinkthere's a few other things.
(26:36):
Um, the first is beingcommunicative, so making sure
your partner's willing to chatwith you about how things are
going and what they need.
Um, and also listening to whatyour club needs as well is
important.
Um, I also think for thesepartnerships, it's talking about
the the culture and making surethat the right workers for your
(26:57):
club um are working at yourpartner club.
So it may it your dates mightline up, but if they're just
warm bodies that aren't gonnafit nicely into your club, it's
it's not gonna work long term.
If you have similar philosophiesand are looking for, you know,
similar um calipers of workersand and have a good cohesive
(27:18):
team, I think that goes a longway and could really create this
long-standing relationshipbetween your club and your your
partner club.
SPEAKER_01 (27:28):
How do you how do clubs then how do you avoid
competing with like yourfriends' clubs for the same
workers?
SPEAKER_03 (27:36):
That's a good question.
I mean, one thing we always sayis not to put all of your eggs
in one basket.
And that that's kind of twofold.
Sometimes when we're sayingthat, we're saying don't just
work with a recruiter, don'tjust work with seasonal connect,
don't just go out on your own.
It is like a a puzzle.
I think there's different waysto recruit.
Um, but in terms of yourpartners, it's also don't just
(27:58):
partner with one or two clubsand assume that their needs are
gonna be the same every yearbecause people's dates change,
they might um decrease thenumber of HTB workers that they
they need in the future, and soreally just spreading that net
wide and partnering with amyriad of clubs can can help
diversify that staffing.
And then I think you're nottaking uh your partner club's
(28:21):
entire staff, you know.
Maybe you're you're able to takethree servers and they might
have ten working there, and sothen your your friends at other
clubs could maybe have the otherseven servers that that work
there.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
Well, and the reality is you're totally
competing against your friends,right?
Like that's that's the reality.
Because the the workers havefree will, and so you can't take
that away from them and youcan't force where they go.
Um, and so understanding that insome ways it is a free-for-all.
You have to be your ownadvocate, you have to go get the
(28:56):
workers.
And so, um, because your friendis totally trying to come in,
and and whether or not they knowyou're also trying to get the
same workers, they're they'reall everyone's trying to do it.
So one of the other mistakes Imake that I see made a lot in
the club world is um I'm gonnastart that over, Denny.
One of the one of the bigmistakes that I see in the club
world is uh that there arecertain clubs that I think are
(29:21):
just very well known.
And they're kind of like theseuh goal, like a lot of
organizations and clubs havethese goals of getting to know
them and recruit with them.
And what I watch is that we havethe same we see the same clubs
going after the same feworganizations to recruit with.
And if they spread out their neta little bit uh a little bit
(29:44):
wider and they talk to someother organizations and got to
know some new people, they wouldbe in a such such a better place
because even if a club files forhundreds of people, if if
everyone's trying to get thesame hundred people, that the
people go pretty quickly.
So you are recruiting.
As your friends, having a widenetwork is incredibly important.
And you got to sell yourselfbecause there's no way to just
(30:06):
go to one club and say, hey,Carly, I want all your workers.
It just doesn't work that way.
SPEAKER_03 (30:11):
Well, and be a good partner, right?
I think if you're a good partnerclub to your opposite seasoned
recruiting partner, then the perthe club that you are working
with can really advocate foryou.
And of course the workers havefree will, as Teese mentioned,
but um I think a lot of theworkers listen to what their
(30:32):
club says about other clubs.
And so your partner can reallyspeak to the culture at your
club or how responsive you areor how wonderful it is to work
there.
So I think just being a goodgood employer and good partner
in general can also go a longway.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Yeah.
Which is also, you know, I'malways an advocate for clubs
posting on social media anddoing all, you know, having good
cultures and promoting it andtalking about it.
So I'm sure that just helps.
Um and I'm sure there's probablysome clubs where you have people
fighting to work there, and I'msure you have clubs that people
are fighting to leave and theycan't get people.
I'm sure you have the wholegambit.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Yes, absolutely.
It goes back to that same focus,right?
Like the ones who are takingthat time to post on social
media are probably really greatplaces to work.
SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
If if a club had had a choose, you know, really
investing in one area forretention, housing culture,
wages, career path, you know,what do you think has the
highest ROI?
Wages.
SPEAKER_03 (31:34):
Wages up there, and then very closely behind, I
would say, culture.
I think a lot of what we hear isemployers weren't treating them
well, the club, you know, theclub didn't care about them.
Um, and then they leave andthey're more than likely not
gonna come back.
And not only that, but this is anetwork that is huge on word of
(31:57):
mouth.
And so if you don't treatworkers well, they're gonna tell
their friends, they're gonnatell their family, and that
spreads like wildfire.
So I think team culture and justtreatment of workers is is
closely behind wages.
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
Yeah, I don't think you're gonna have the
conversation about culturethough, if the wages doesn't
have some level of fairness andequity to it.
But I agree with what Carlysaid.
Wages to me is kind of a it goeswithout saying.
You have to pay peoplecompetitively in your market.
It doesn't mean that you have topay the most in the industry,
but you have to pay peoplefairly in your market.
(32:31):
But then it immediately goes toculture.
Because I'm saying this as animmigration lawyer.
Right now it's really hard forpeople to go home.
And it's very hard, I shouldn'tsay that, it's actually very
easy to go home.
It's very hard to come back.
And so to get back into theUnited States.
And so a lot of the workers arechoosing to stay right now, and
if they're not feeling likeyou're watching out for them and
(32:51):
you're gonna take care of k takecare of them, and frankly, just
most of all feel valued, thewhole thing falls apart.
I don't care how much you'repaying people.
It uh you gotta treat peoplewell.
SPEAKER_01 (33:01):
Do you ever just like separate yourself from some
clubs or some clients or somedoes it can it or has it gotten
to a point where you just theculture was just bad, you
couldn't like literally couldnot get people to go and go
there and work?
SPEAKER_02 (33:15):
So we do.
We actually we we do.
I don't talk about it a lot.
We we we do um we do fireclients pretty regularly at this
point.
Um what I will we do it for wedon't we I can think of maybe
one or two situations where wehave fired a client because of
(33:35):
the way that they treat workers.
Generally, I try I think I'm I'ma pretty good judge of that at
the outset in terms of of peoplebeing nice people, and that's
always one of my prerequisites.
I I don't want to work withjerks.
Um I want to work with nice,nice and smart people is who we
hire and who we want to workwith.
(33:57):
Um where we've where we let goof clients is when they're not
treating my team well.
And I think that's usually agood barometer anyway, of just
internal culture.
I think there's usually somehabits that you see, but um we
try to I I would say the betteranswer is probably we really try
to flush that out at the outsetbecause I don't I think we uh I
(34:22):
don't think any of us want towork with jerks, and I think
that we want to work withorganizations that really do
view people as human beings.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
Are there any like red flags that you see or that
are kind of like what are yourlike things you're like, eh,
it's probably not gonna be agood fit.
SPEAKER_02 (34:40):
Do you have any, Carly, while I try to think of
some answers?
SPEAKER_03 (34:42):
Yeah, I was gonna say on on my end, I think it's
people that work at the club,the HR folks that are, you know,
gonna be in charge of workingwith the the immigration law
firm on HGBs, talking aboutworkers like their cattle or
objects, saying, you know,saying things like, um, I need I
(35:04):
need 30 of them, or you know,like I think they I don't know
how to phrase it better, but wehear we hear people talk about
them like they're not humanbeings, and to me that is a huge
red flag.
That shows me that you want awarm body, you don't care who it
is, and you're not gonna betaking very good care of them.
So for me, that's I think whatstands out the most.
SPEAKER_02 (35:25):
Yeah, I I feel like so much of my vetting is how
people talk, how peoplecommunicate, responsiveness
right from the start is big tome.
But I'm also watching a lot ofhow serious are people about
learning and about ongoingeducation and then as kind of
(35:47):
working towards the compliancepiece.
Because it it just it all goestogether towards having a good
program.
Like if if you're not gonnalearn and care about the rules,
you're also not setting yourprogram up to be successful in
any way, including having a goodexperience for the workers.
So um, but yeah, I think uhCarl, I think you made some
great points.
But I think we're I think we'rewe're both very attuned at the
(36:10):
outset to what's gonna make areally good partnership and a
good relationship from a clientside.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
This stuff goes like deep.
SPEAKER_03 (36:25):
It does.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work, and um justto add to what Keith said too, I
think it's knowing that nomatter how long you do this
process, you have to be investedyear after year to continue to
work to improve it, to continueto get feedback and to evolve
and change as the needs of theworkers change and as the
(36:47):
environment that you're you'reoperating in changes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
Yeah.
What what do you think, or whatdo you wish maybe m GMs or
boards understood before theystarted the the the process of
it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:03):
We can't control everything.
And we are operating in a veryum really tough immigration
world right now that that thingsare constantly shifting.
So like I know at this year'sevent we talked a lot about at
our staffing summit this year,we talked about um you know,
just understanding that thingsshift and and that you need to
(37:26):
just keep learning and and andparticipating.
Um also there are certain timesin the program where you do have
to pivot or at least like haveconversations and see if you do
need to pivot.
Um I always think of the theprogram as a game of shoots and
ladders, and sometimes you doneed to take a step backwards to
take the the many steps forwardafter that.
(37:49):
And you know, it's not just youfill out a forum and you get
workers tomorrow.
Like I I think GMs and boardsmiss out on that a lot, and I
shouldn't say a lot.
I think clubs are usually prettygood, so the boards, right?
Like when you have like retiredlawyers, it's it's sometimes
they have opinions on how thingsshould work.
But it it really process.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
We're also in a very like you know, you can get
things quick culture.
Yes, it doesn't matter how oldyou are, young or old, you know,
we have that's like, oh, can'tget it in like a day or two,
it's gonna take weeks?
Yeah, weeks?
Like, you know, so I think forthem to people have to wait for
like a weeks or like a month,like what?
SPEAKER_02 (38:28):
Totally, totally.
Yeah, there's no instantgratification here.
Um but the other thing, I'll sayfrom a GM standpoint, and most
most private club GMs arefantastic at this, but the GM
needs to know what's going on,but they should not be the one
doing this process.
They need to trust their HRperson, their controller.
Uh when the GM is involved, Ijust I always cringe, not
(38:51):
because I mean GMs arefantastic, but they have so many
other things that they should bedoing versus a process that's
pretty work-intensive on anongoing basis for six months of
the year.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
GM stay out.
SPEAKER_02 (39:07):
GM stay out.
Be part of the planning and thenstep out.
SPEAKER_01 (39:13):
And and and I'm sure there must be some amazing
rewarding aspects to all ofthis, too.
You know, between helping clubssolve the problem and then also,
you know, when you have likethat really great connection of
people, you know, staff andworkers, you really create that
like bond and that experiencethat's just great for everybody.
(39:34):
It's like, uh, like the thetrifecta, you know, it's like
everybody wins and everyone'shappy.
And Power Rangers unite, likeeveryone puts their fists in.
SPEAKER_03 (39:45):
It's so true though, because the club, then the club
has what they need to operatesmoothly.
They're giving a greatexperience, the members are
happy.
And then for the workers, Imean, these clubs are changing
their lives.
A lot of these workers arecoming here and sending every
dime they make home.
And it's, you know, this is areal um, a really important
(40:06):
situation for them to be in.
And they're they're sacrificinga lot to come to the US and do
these jobs.
And so I think when a clubtreats them well and does a good
job of the program, they'rechanging the lives of these
people that are here um on theHTB visa.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Well, and it's changing the lives of the people
on staff, right?
All these all the people who arealready there get to meet all
these incredible people.
The workers that come aregenerally some of the best and
hardworking people they have.
And all of a sudden, even duringvery busy seasons for the
seasonal clubs, people get to gohome at night and see their
families, and they're notworking a trillion hours.
Um, except for the workaholicswho work a trillion hours no
(40:45):
matter what.
But everyone gets to everyonegets some help and it creates
stability, it createsreliability in in service and in
on a daily basis with staffing.
And I don't know, it's it'swin-win-win.
SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
Once somebody is at a club, do they have the ability
and option to like keep couldyou can they keep going back?
Can people keep re-requestingthe same ones?
SPEAKER_02 (41:09):
And theoretically, there are some barriers more and
more for everybody becausethere's numerical caps and
limits, but that's wherestrategy comes into play, and
that's where this program isdefinitely the HTB program,
especially, is it's designed forthat.
It's just that it takes somestrategy and sometimes requires
some flexibility, or maybetaking a year away from that
(41:30):
person hoping to bring them backto the self-support season.
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
Gotcha.
Anything uh you guys wanted toadd or bring up.
SPEAKER_03 (41:45):
That's a good question.
Uh no, I think for me it'sreally just I can't stress
enough the importance of theserecruiting relationships with
clubs that have the oppositebusy season.
I think sometimes when peopleare new to this, they think it's
(42:07):
like any old recruiting wherethey're just gonna post a job
and get workers and it's you'regonna fail, in my opinion, if
you do that.
Um it's important to form theserelationships and to network and
to find clubs that are that havea similar mindset and and treat
their workers, you know, well,so that you're creating you're
(42:27):
finding them in the workers inlarger numbers, but you're also
providing, like you said, thatum ability for them to come back
and go back and forth and havesome stability as a worker as
well.
And so I think um you're savingyourself time in the future
essentially by forming thosepartnerships early on and
continuing to grow them.
SPEAKER_02 (42:47):
I'll say one thing.
From my perspective, there'sthis perception sometimes that
HTBs are really hard or the HTBprocess is really hard.
And I'm not minimizing thatsentiment.
It is a lot of work, it's it cancost a decent amount of money.
(43:07):
But what we've been doing overthe last few years, and Carly
alluded to this, and you usedsome some really interesting
statistics, Carly, what when youwere talking today.
If when we're watching clientsuse data and information and
kind of take things as they comeand then look reflecting back on
that data and information, it'sallowing organizations to have
(43:31):
so much more predictability andsuccess in the program.
And so we've really been tryingto share as much as we can with
our clients around statisticsand information and data.
And I have never seen clients beso happy and so and feel like
this program is going so well,even though demand for HTVs is
(43:54):
at an all-time high.
So it's this weird paradox wherethere's more organizations
applying than ever before.
But if you're understandingwhat's happening on an ongoing
basis and using that data andinformation, there's real
opportunities to make this asuccess a successful program for
someone's club.
SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
It's definitely not a set it in and forget it, it's
gonna take work.
SPEAKER_02 (44:16):
Yeah, but but it's it doesn't have to be too much.
It just as long as they'reparticipating on an ongoing
basis, it's that.
It's not like you have to sitdown with a buck and every night
it's multiple hours of homework.
SPEAKER_03 (44:28):
But it's the same sentiment with recruiting.
Like they can't just post a joband walk away.
I think because there's so muchcompetition for these workers,
it really it's an ongoingprocess they need to invest in
and continue investing in ifthey want to be successful.
SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
That was that was all of my my my my goodies.
Um anything else?
SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
I assume this is gonna be the best webinar ever,
in your opinion?
SPEAKER_03 (45:01):
Podcast, but yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
Sorry, um, I did a lot of things.
SPEAKER_02 (45:09):
Wow.
Can we call this the ocho?
SPEAKER_03 (45:13):
The ocho.
The H2B Ocho.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
The Ocho.
Sounds like a bad like linedance at like the honky chunk or
something.
The olcho.
What's that?
That's the olcho.
SPEAKER_03 (45:30):
Oh, it really does.
SPEAKER_01 (45:34):
Oh man.
As much as I I might make it theocho, that'd be really funny.
SPEAKER_03 (45:39):
That'd be hilarious.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
That's really good.
Uh so okay, so I'm I'm justgonna wrap it up, but don't
leave.
Uh thank you guys so much forcoming on.
Thank you for sharing abouteach.
I just love learning about likenew stuff too, and you answer
some of my questions, and gladyou're able to come on and share
with the other Club World spaceas well.
SPEAKER_02 (45:58):
Thank you for having us.
Thanks so much, Denny.
SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
Hope you all enjoyed that episode.
I know I did.
Carly and Keith, thank you forcoming on and sharing and giving
back to the community.
That's this episode.
I'm your host, Denny Corby.
Until next time, catch y'all onthe flippity flip.
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