September 27, 2019 • 34 mins
The guys discuss why the heat's already on Jay Gruden in Washington and Dan Quinn in Atlanta and give their early reviews of the work of a few rookie head coaches, including Green Bay's Matt LaFleur and Cincinnati's Zac Taylor. Plus, what we're watching in Week 4, including undefeated battle in Buffalo and a potential conference title preview in New Orleans.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to anotheredition of our Pro Football Weekly NFL podcast.
I am Hub ark actually executive editorand general manager at Pro Football Weekly.
I'm joined by our managing editor,Arthur Arkish and Arthur. Things starting
to settle down a little bit,I guess in the NFL as we get
to week four, we starting tohave an idea of maybe which of these
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undefeated two and one teams are forreal, which of the teams that are
struggling still have a chance to turnit around. But there's a couple franchises
where it looks like if something doesn'thappen quickly, there could be some coaching
changes coming. We always wonder aboutthese early season coaching moves and you know
who's going to jump first. Butparticularly in Washington where that club, I
(00:57):
don't want to say they were embarrassed, but clearly was not competitive for the
most part on Monday Night against aBear's team that a lot of people are
still trying to figure out as acoach in Jay Gruden, who is in
trouble. We're hearing reports from variousplaces. You know, we've talked a
lot, I think over the yearsand even this year on this podcast about
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the poor I don't want to saypoor, the frustrating ownership situation, their
front office situation. There not alot of consistency. Not one of the
best run NFL franchises, and itsounds like Daniel Snyder is looking for somebody
to blame and that Jay Gruden couldbe very much in trouble there. Who
was it one owner, I thinkit was Jed York one or two years
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ago that famously said, well,you can't fire the owner. If ever
there was an instance where that ownerdeserved to kind of put his own ad
on the platter, it would beDaniel Snyder in Washington. And if ever
there was the obvious pivot. Sincethat's not happening, you would think Bruce
Allen might be on the shopping blockbefore anyone else. But ability in Washington
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with football teams, in politics,wherever you're looking to discuss it seems to
really not exist. So Jay Gruden, Yeah, it was an embarrassing performance,
and yeah he did have case Keenumkind of thrown on him this year.
And the five turnovers certainly aren't allon Jay Gruden. All the injuries,
once again on this football team arenot on Jay Gruden. But there
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will be a fall guy. AndI don't know what Vegas is updated.
Odds are on the first one togo down, but my guests is probably
Gordon is a top this list,just as we've kind of mentioned him first
in this conversation. Well, what'sinteresting about it? Are there as you
look at their track record, ClearlyBruce Allen is not qualified to be in
charge of football operations. On thebusiness side, the you know, owners
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can have whatever executives they want,but Bruce Allen has control of this operation
and he is as unqualified and reallyincapable as Daniel Snyder. That's why this
franchise has had the results that ithas in recent years, in the couple
of decades since Snyder took the teamover. But what's interesting, and we're
not going to get into politics oror make any references or go anywhere else
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here, but just with people ingeneral, when we see these incredible egomaniacs
and narcissists like a Daniel Snyder,who is the owner of this franchise,
every one of them has a sycophanor two who's around them, you know
who also falls into the same category, and that appears to be Bruce Allen.
And that's why he is safe.You know, Snyder, you know,
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with Allen as his sidekick, hassomebody to deflect all of the blame
that the rightfully should go to Snyder, and so accorded reports that I'm hearing,
you know, Snyder not really lookingat Alan so much as the two
of them wondering if there's anything tobe salvaged by making a change. I
think it's unfortunate because I actually thinkJake Gruden is one of the most underrated
coaches in the league based on howcompetitive he has kept them for the most
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part in recent seasons with all ofthe dysfunction of the organization. But at
the end of the day, youknow, these guys get paid a lot
of money. They know what therisk is. Jake Ruden certainly understands who
he's working for and where he's workingand it does seem likely that unless something
turns quickly, that there is goingto be in change in Washington, and
whether it's going to a Cup.I mean, you were there covering the
(04:13):
game on Monday night. You sawthere was as many Bears fans in that
stadium, it seemed as there wereWashington fans, And I'm sure it wasn't
fifty fifty, but clearly the localsthe fan base has started to turn off
or unhappy, and that is alwaysthe worst sign for a head coach in
the NFL, regardless of whether it'sreally his fault or not. Yeah,
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there was a stunning number of emptyseats at kickoff, and certainly the reception
for you know, good and badBears plays that night was as noticeable as
anything on the Washington side. Beforewe kind of get to the next coach,
the obvious elephant in the room hereis Dwayne Haskins, the sixteenth overall
pick in the draft. That wouldbe the other sort of I don't know
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if irony is the word, butsort of unfortunate part of this if they
do pull the plug on Jay Gruden, because I think he's got a chance
to be a pretty good quarterback developertoo, and I know we both share
the opinion that Dwayne Haskins has gota good chance to be a really good
one. Interestingly, case Keenum,we're taping here Thursday, did not practice
the first availability this week. Iapologized. I don't know what the injury
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was. He got banged around prettygood by the Bears Monday night, and
of course they go to New Yorkwhere Daniel Jones will have his first home
start, Danny Dimes coming off thatbrilliant debut. It could be Dwayne Haskins
versus Daniel Jones. Remember Dwayne Haskins, the New Jersey boy who was very
disappointed not to be drafted by hishometown team. Well, and listen,
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I do like Haskins a lot asa prospect, and I agree with you
that Gruden has done a great jobworking with both veteran quarterbacks and rehabbing him
and working with young quarterbacks since hetook that job. But at the end
of the day, that just doesn'tseem to be the focus there. And
a lot of people believe that thereason that Haskins didn't go ahead to Jones
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and lasted to Washington in the middleof the first round is because of his
lack of experience At Ohio State.He had the one phenomenal season, but
you know, you see how MitchDrubiski is struggling in Chicago after just thirteen
college starts. I think Haskins hadfifteen or sixteen or something like that.
And that's the reason that Gruden hasnot wanted to rush him out there,
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and most of the football people thatI talked to tend to agree with that
that that's probably not the way togo right now. And I don't think
Jay Gruden, I really Obviously peoplecan hear from my conversation. I respect
the guy, and I think he'saccomplished quite a bit. I don't think
he's the kind of guy, fromwhat a little bit I know about him,
who's going to cave to pressure fromon top to save his own job,
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to do what is not right forthe young manner for the football team.
So if you do hear that Haskinsis going on the field for any
reason other than injury, obviously ifKeenom can't go, that becomes a different
story. Excuse me, but youknow, it just doesn't seem likely at
this stage of the season that Gruden'sgoing to go against what he thinks is
best for the player and for theteam by throwing him out there just to
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try and save his own job.No, I get it. I guess
I was kind of more alluding towhether hask You know, the best interests
for Haskins is having someone like theexperienced Gruden versus you know, putting Daniel
Snyder and Bruce Allen once again inthe lead of another coaching change and kind
of potentially moving Haskins backwards after he'sjust starting to learn one playbook. It's
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got a lot of hilarious of whatwe saw in Chicago a couple of years
ago with Mike Glennon getting the bigfree agent deal. Now Washington didn't have
to pay as much for Keenum,of course, but then it was the
quick hook after four weeks, andit will just have to see what happens
now with Keenum, of course,and Haskins and whether he can succeed given
what he's up against. The lastthing I'll say on this up it's disappointing
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only because I really liked what Washingtondid this offseason, and I don't if
I myself saying that very often.Terry McLaurin is playing awesome football mont Sweat.
There is a ton of excitement aroundhim. Again, I think we
can all agree. Value on DwayneHaskins is sixteenth overall pretty solid. They
got another receiver I liked there laterin the draft and Calvin Harmon. A
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lot of the moves made a lotof sense, and that's not something I
find myself saying often with this footballteam, it is a story we will
keep a close eye on. Again, there are rumors starting to pop all
over the league that Gruden seed isabout as hot as it can get,
and he is not alone. He'sjust at the top of the list.
Folks in Atlanta are starting to getrestless too. Dan Quinn blew everything up
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this offseason, fired all three ofhis coordinators, decided he was going to
handle his defense all by himself.Now, it's not as if they haven't
been competitive. That was kind ofa gut wrenching three point loss in Indianapolis
this last weekend, although it wasn'tas close as to suggests, because they
did get the last touchdown to closeto a three point margin and they did
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come home and get them must winover Philadelphia. That is why you find
dan Quinn not being discussed quite asmuch as Gruden. But there is no
question that the folks in Atlanta aredisappointed. They also, in my estimation,
had a very good off season interms of the approvements they tried to
make. A lot of their problemslast year seemed to be as much injuries
as they were lack of talent,and most of those injured players did return
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this year. Now, losing KeyanO'Neill again this year for the season,
it appears, is a devastating injurybecause he's one of the tour three most
important people on that defense. Butthat's still just one player. With everything
that's happened in the off season,expectations were for Atlanta to at least look
better because they really kind of embarrassedthemselves in the opener in Minnesota. To
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look better and be more competitive thanthey've been through the first three weeks of
the season. Yeah, And Ithink the key, as he said,
is at the top by Quinn makingthe same moves that he saw his old
buddy Pete Carroll cross country last year, and cleaning out the coordinators and kind
of putting more of the onus onhimself while he's put himself out there.
And you know, they're off tothe disappointing start obviously amiss the playoffs at
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seven and nine last year. Idon't know if it would surprise anyone if
Dan Quinn never truly recovers from twentyeight to three. I mean, just
look at the arc of his career, you know, five hundred and year
one goes to the super Bowl inthe year two, out in the divisional
round in year three, out ofthe playoffs last year, and looking toward
you know, it seems to beheading in that direction if things don't get
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turned around quickly. And we've beenhearing rumblings for a while that Arthur Blank
isn't going to have a ton ofpatients after seeing the way Queen Quinn His
you know, handled thing. Oneof the things that people have to keep
an eye on with these coaching changes, though, because it always is a
consideration is if you're going to dothis week three, week four, even
week eight of the season, unlessyou are promoting from within, who are
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you going to put in charge?Who's going to be that interim head coach?
Now in Washington that is a verysolid veteran staff, there are a
number of choices at least then anAlan As Snyder could make to make the
interim head coach. You know,Matt Cavana, Gregmanuski are guys who come
to mind right at the top ofmy head. Although you know, the
job Menuski is doing with that defenseis has been questionable. You look in
Atlanta and one of the byproduct ofwhat Quinn did this offseason is by bringing
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in three new coordinators. There isnowhere for Arthur Blank to go and say,
well, I'd feel much better withone of these guys. You know,
he doesn't know these guys all thatwell yet hasn't had them working for
him. So is there anybody onthe street. You know, people are
going to start ridiculous rumors about JimHarbaugh, who has his problems obviously the
University of Michigan, and could therebe an end season change. Jim Harbaugh
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could be back in the NFL nextyear. I don't think it's going to
happen, but it certainly is apossibility. But a coach of that illk
is not suddenly going to be availableweek three, week four, week five
to make a change like this.And in the case of the Falcons,
unlike Washington, a lot of peoplethought this could even be a playoff team,
and so Blank has to be verycareful. And I think as much
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because of circumstances as anything else,Quinn is going to continue to get a
longer leash than than Gruden is inWashington. And finally, there's a third
coach that we have to add tothis conversation. I mean, you could
probably talk about a dozen't but theguys that are really under tremendous pressure right
now. And this is the mostinteresting of all because, as we know,
if you know anything about the NFL, the Pittsburgh Steelers change head coaches
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about as often as people change houses. I mean, I mean, you
know, they just they get settled. They don't overreact, they don't make
quick moves over the last I don'tknow what thirty five. I'm just guessing
off the top of my head.I should look this up before we started,
but from Chuck Noll to Bill Kawerto Mike Tomlin, this is it.
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That's the less yeah, over thelast three four decades, And so
the idea that Tomlin is going tobe out week three, week four,
week five sees highly unlikely. Butyou certainly could make the argument that the
Pittsburgh Steelers at owe and three arethe most disappointing team right now in the
NFL. Yes, you could.And if anyone's totally stunned by it in
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watching everything that's unfolded there over theprevious handful of months, then I kind
of say shame on them. SoI don't know, this one would be
stunning to me. The Steelers justsigned Mike Tomlin to a two year extension
in July, signed him through twentytwenty one again to to try and turn
the page from Antonio Brown to youknow, try and make a change along
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that offensive line, to to reallymake a ton of changes on a defense
that's been sagging for a couple ofyears now. I don't know. I
think Mike Tomlin continues to be prettyimpressive in the way he is able to
handle personalities. You know, hisin game management maybe always will leave a
little bit to be desired, butI think this would be an instance.
Pub It's interesting because we're here inChicago and these are the final days of
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Joe Madden's tenure here. We're allassuming and I've maintained that the grass is
not going to be green around thisone, and I would feel very strong
in the same way if the Steelerswere to make a rast decision on Mike
Tomlin right now. You know,it's interesting when you look at NFL coaches,
there are some that are much betterXS and OS, strategic game managers,
the hardcore you know, technical coaches, and there are others who get
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by by their ability to build aculture, by motivation, by the way
they handle players. Tomlin is clearlyin that group of the ladder. You
know, there are many who havequestioned his actual football acumen versus his ability
to oversee a locker room in agroup, and it really I was talking
to one very well connected, highlyplaced the NFL executive just the other day
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about this one, and he hada really interesting comment for me. He
said, you know what, ifMike Munchak was still in Pittsburgh and not
in Denver, I think Mike Tomlinwould be in a lot more trouble right
now. But this again always getsback to what's the move that's going to
make you better? Not I mean, none of these teams, well,
Washington, I don't know, butAtlanta and Pittsburgh are not going to make
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coaching changes just to try and mollifyfans and sell a couple of tickets.
The ownership in these two organizations andthe front offices are much much too well
established and much too experienced to dosomething like that. So we are not
predicting the Mike Tomlin is going tobe an end season casualty, but there
is no question that the pressure ismounting dramatically there a ton of a segue
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here, aren't three? If youwill? And then we're gonna have to
take our break in a couple ofminutes. Is it is interesting to look
at all these young coaches and whatis happening there and who's hot out of
the box and who people are stillkeeping an eye on. And I think
you got to start in Green Bay, where the Packers are a surprising three
and oh they have played very wellon defense, but literally have had one
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good quarter of football on offense,and that was the first quarter against Minnesota
two weeks ago, and yet it'sbeen enough. And so certainly Matt Lafleur
is getting high marks in Green Bayfor being three and oh, but this
is also a team that we justhave to continue to keep an eye on
because the offense is not working yet. And with Adam Aaron Rodgers under center,
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that strikes a lot of people istough to get their arms around.
Yeah, not me totally though.Look at the defenses take play. I
mean the Bears, the Vikings,and the Broncos. Those are and I
know the Broncos numbers don't back itup right now, but look at the
coach, look at the personnel,that's a pretty unique opening slate for a
new offensive minded head coach to installa new offense. I hope there's more
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similarities to Chicago. Remember Matt Neggiegetting all these accolades last year right out
of the gate, and who didhe retain? It was a veteran defensive
mind whose unit he was leaning onearly in the season. Now, I
agree Mitch Terrbiski at Aaron Rodgers arekind of apples to oranges comparisons here,
but this, to me is thatsame setup. A rookie head coach has
that experienced sidekick on the other sideof the football, and it's a great
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situation to be able to lean onhim early. There's no doubt that's what
they're doing in Green Bay. Defenseis even exceeding expectations, and there's little
doubt in my mind anyway that thisoffense is going to awaken sooner than later.
And yeah, I think what MattLaflora has done thus far very impressive,
even if the offense is not,you know, reaches potential just yet.
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Yeah, I mean, I thinkthe interesting part of it though,
because your your analogy is certainly morethan fair. But when you go back
and compare the Bears offense under MitchDrubisky didn't struggle quite the way the Packers'
offense has these first three weeks withAaron Rodgers. That said, three and
OZ is three and o, andthe marks are very high on Matt Lafleur.
H. Now, let's talk abouta guy who's oh and three who
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has surprised people with how competitive histeam has been, and that is Zach
Taylor. You know, uh,you know when you go, I'm sorry,
Matt Taylor laid it right. That'show well we know this kid.
M The Bengals, uh, youknow, obviously going nowhere. But here's
a kid, and I'm sorry Isay kid, but I believe he's thirty
five thirty six years old, whichis a kid by NFL coaching standards,
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who has come in and taken ateam that pretty much everybody predicted to be
last in the AFC North, andthey are. They're probably going to be,
but but they have been in everygame, um and probably should have
beaten the two and one Seahawks andthe three and oh Bills, right and
yet to go on the road inboth of those instances, and hang tough.
Yeah, there was the forty nineers kind of ugly one at home
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in between, but Taylor is showingsome things, especially playing with a short
deck, especially defensively. But you'veseen signs of that LA offense, Andy
Dalton, I believe it's number twoor number three in the NFL. And
passing yardage, you know, TylerBoyd, he's kind of reinvented John Ross
a little bit. So there havebeen some encouraging signs on offense for sure,
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probably more than than many of usexpected coming out of Cincinnati. And
then maybe we wait until after thebreak, but obviously we have to stay
in the division and discuss another rookiehead coach who certainly is feeling the heat
already. Up. Welcome back everybody, and thank you for being with us
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again this week. We want tothank all of our great sponsors and of
course our outstanding executive producer Dan Mott, who does such a miraculous job for
us here at Pro Football Weekly inShaw Media with all things video, audio,
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do want to thank Arthur's buddies thatUmfrees McGee, the outstanding Chicago band who
(19:14):
is kind enough to let us usesome of their great work, some of
their music for our sound bumps andour intro beds. If you want to
check out um Frees McGee, getto their website. They appear pretty regularly
locally and we really appreciate the guyshelping us out. They're also a big
Bears fans guys, so maybe anotherreason to enjoy that band. Arthur,
where we left off, I believewith you either making reference to or alluding
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to a coming conversation about the ClevelandBrowns. You know, some people are
calling the Browns a disappointment. They'veactually been exactly what I expected them to
be. There's no way that thisteam was ever a super Bowl contender,
and I don't know if they're apotential Playoff contender or not. So far
they're not, but they do haveenough talent to get better. It's the
construction of that ball club that hasbothered me all along, when you talk
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about culture building and some of thesome of the interesting characters they've added,
but also the unknown about the coaches. Now, I do think the world
John Dorsey and he believes that FreddieKitchens is the guy. But as outside
analysts and observers, we didn't knowenough about Kitchens going in to be able
to have an opinion as to whetherhe was going to make an NFL head
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coach or not. And early onthe signs are mixed. At best,
I think you would say, yeah, you're putting it nicely. He's really
embarrassed himself on more than a fewoccasions, whether you're talking about play calling
or some of his curious explanations.Take the fourth and nine draw play last
Monday night, for instance. Thatwas about as bizarre as you'll ever see
in an NFL game. But hedoes not appear to be consistently maximizing what
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he has to work with. Itdoes appear hub that Baker Mayfield's leaky protection,
especially on the edges, are inhis head right now. He is
escaping the pocket way too early.It seems like he's seeing ghosts back there.
And he's almost always escaping to hisright too, which I'm quite sure
that defensive coordinators are taking note of. Oh yeah, the defensive coordinator he
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will now prepare for it come Sunday. That would be Don Martindale and the
Ravens. So that's what we needto point out here. Yes, the
Browns are one and two. Yes, they have been whole well, I
find them to have been wholly disappointing. I did pick them to win the
division. They haven't had a lotof you know, they haven't had a
lot of layoffs. They went outto the Jets and took care of business
and got their one win. Butthey've played some tough defenses in the Titans
and the Rams and now Baltimore.So if you're looking for that soft landing,
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I'm not quite sure it comes tothis Sunday either. Well, but
the flip side of it is weevaluate the head coach is the Titans defense
may not be that bad, butas a football team, they haven't looked
too good since they left their routeof the Browns on opening Day. And
you know, Arthur, you justtouched on it, though you kind of
touched on it when by it thereason they clearly were not a pick for
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me coming into the season, beyondsome of the questions about you know,
care some of their stars and youknow, the coaching questions that all we
need to learn about Freddy Kitchens,who may be fine by the way he's
had three games. You know,we'll see what happens. But you knew
coming in they were gonna have oneof the worst offensive lines in football.
It is the worst offensive line infootball. And you do not play playoff
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games with one of the worst offensivelines in football. You just don't get
there. Yeah, and John Dorsey, for all the good he's done,
let's call it like it is.He traded Kevin Zieler for Olivia Vernon,
who's given them nothing. He wentinto the season looking to protect the first
number first overall, picking last year'sdraft with Greg Robinson a bush several times
over. So these problems were foreseeable. I do want to add, though,
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too. Almost as rare as afourth and nine draw play in the
NFL is entering a game without yourentire starting secondary, as Cleveland did Monday
night versus the Rams. So somemight argue it was heroic for them to
remain in that football game and forJared Goff and the Rams offense to be
as discombobulated through the air as itwas. So I just want to make
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sure to point that out. Andthe hope, certainly in Cleveland has to
be that they're gonna be a lothealthier, that they're gonna have Denzel Ward
and Greedy Williams and Damarius Randall andthe whole crew back as Lamar as they
visit you know, Lamar and thatRavens offense. Well, yeah, let's
be clear. I mean, theCleveland Browns are not an outstanding football team.
They're not good football team yet,but they do have a number of
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outstanding players. They have some verygood players, and so there are going
to be ups and downs. They'removing in the right direction. I think
the world of John Dorsey is anevaluator, and I think that they're going
to get there. I just thinkthey've got a lot more work to do.
And it's interesting you look at thismatchup this week as they go to
Baltimore. The Ravens to me areanother team that is a bit overrated in
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my mind because those first two wins, while wildly impressive, were layups,
you know when you look at whothey were playing. And then they go
out to Kansas City and I knowit good in the end that it was
a five point game, but theywere never really a threat to win that
football game. And watching Lamar Jackson, some of his flaws as a passer
were exposed in that Kansas City game. He also did make some big throws.
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They definitely got away with an offensiveinterference on that fourth and forever play
that led to a touchdown. Butbeyond that, what you see with Jackson
is a lot of his big plays, and actually this is true with Patrick
Mahomes too. It all comes aftereverything's broken down. It's not as if
this guy has suddenly become a finishedquarterback in the NFL. He is a
great athlete, there's no question aboutthat. But when you're playing schoolyard football
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all the time, which is whatLamar Jackson is doing right now, sometimes
that's going to go as badly asit does go well. And so I
think the Ravens have still got plentyto prove too. Yeah, that's a
great point by you. It canbe a blessing and a curse, and
there's no doubt about it that theyhave a long ways to go and that
this is going to be an interestingearly look at what appeared to be the
two favorites in this division, evenwith the Browns at one and two,
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because I think we've all written offthe oen three, Steelers, the Bengals,
I don't know if you feel differently. I don't have much to say
about Brian Floor as their Kyler Murraybecause as rookie head coaches look at what
they're working with. But I dothink we need to very quickly mention Vic
Fangio and the O and three DenverBrocos and a stat that I just cannot
get over, how it's Vix defensein Denver that is the only one in
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the NFL without not only a takeaway, but a sack through three games.
To me, truly, it defieslogic. Well, I agree with you
that it is a bit surprising,maybe stunning, but I don't think it
defies logic. And I think wemay have talked about this Pro Football Weekly
Chicago podcast up to that Bears gamethat Denver defense is not as talented as
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people assume that it is, youknow, prior to Vis getting there and
that defense being very good in recentyears, it was really stacked at all
three levels, you know. Andyet when you look at the players that
have left there, either via freeagency or personnel decisions over the last couple
of years, they had the besttrio of cornerback in the NFL for three
or four seasons. They've only gotone now and Chris Harris Junior. They
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had some studs upfront, like MalikJackson, who wasn't the player that he
was in Denver once he left.But right now, other than Derek Wolfe,
they've got some youngsters up there thatthey're trying to develop. And then
most tellingly, even at linebacker,you know, clearly you've got a great
pair on the outside and Von Millerand Bradley Chubb, but they don't get
nearly as much help inside from ToddDavis and some of these other guys as
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they used to get when they hada Danny Trevivan and when they had a
Brandon Marshall there. So yeah,it's disappointing. But I hope that John
Elway understands, because I love VicFangio, that you got to give him
some more talent before you can expecthim to work the miracles with that defense
that he did in Chicago. Yeah, great points by you. I mean,
and look at some of the recentdrafts. I mean, I think
it was DeMarcus Walker, second roundpick. He's given them absolutely nothing in
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his first couple of seasons. Ifyou're gonna let a keep to leave and
Bradley Roby escape obviously trading to Leablast year to the Rams and Bradley Roby.
I know Houston's happier with him,you know, with the Texans.
Now, well, then you gottamake sure you restock the cupboard. And
you know we in Bryce Callahan.There's not a lot of guys you'd rather
root for a truly, really goodfootball player. But it's now going to
(27:11):
be another four to six weeks beforehe makes his Bronco's debut. With this
chronic foot issue. They're missing himdesperately. I love Drew Lock, I
love Dalton Risner. We'll see ifthose turn out to be the correct decisions,
trading back in round one, stockpilingto rebuild the offense in round two.
But I think that it's fair tosay that the Broncos probably could use
(27:32):
a Devin Bush in the middle ofthat defense right now. They've missed Todd
Davis obviously, let Brandon Marshall go, so as stew points by you.
And now that being said, Vick'sgoing to have to find some solutions because
there are no there's no help onthe way in the in the near horizon,
and now they got another tough onewith the Jaguars seemingly a bit reborn
under Gardner Minshew coming in and threateningto leave Denver at oh and four,
(27:55):
right, arthurw we're in a littleshort on time. I'm gonna moonwalk here
on you for just a minute beforewe take a look at one more big
game, arguably one of the biggestgames of the weekend. I am not
writing off Pittsburgh yet. I believeyou just did a couple of minutes ago.
I do think that it is avery early season four must win,
but they've got a must win Mondaynight at home against Cincinnati. This is
(28:15):
a game on primetime that they shouldbe able to find a way to win.
If they do, either the Ravensor the Browns are going to have
one more loss coming out of thisgame this weekend, and so at one
and three, if they can gethot, things are still salvageable. I'm
not predicting that so much as again, you know, when you look at
everything that's wrong with Cleveland, alot of that is what's right with Pittsburgh.
(28:37):
They've got one of the best offensivelines in football. They had enough
in James Connor at running back lastyear. You got to wonder if he
can't find it again. Clearly,Juju Smith Schuster is a number one wide
receiver, and there is more talenton defense than they've had in recent years.
Again, they're they're in trouble,there's no question about that. But
I think the Steelers in a mustwin Monday Night if they can get that
(29:00):
and get a little mojo going.I kind of like Mason Rudolph at quarterbacks,
So we'll see what happens there.But the other big game that I
wanted to get to, I believethe only battle of undefeated's this weekend.
You know, obviously Kansas City goingto Detroit Detroit at two oh and one,
so I guess technically that's a battleof undefeated's. But with the three
and New England Patriots taking on thethree and oh Buffalo Bills, it is
(29:26):
easy to point out that the combinedone loss record of Buffalo's opponents is one
and eight, I believe, oris it o and nine? It might
be it's either one in eight oroh and nine, But the Patriots opponents
have the same record. So whatyou come back to is the pedigrees and
the talent of these two teams.I'm sure the Patriots are a heavy favorite,
and I'm reasonably sure they're going towin this football game. But you
(29:48):
do have to ask the question,how many more injuries on the offensive line
can the Patriots handle? How oftencan they continue to rejigger this thing basically
now working with cast off from otherteams and continue to have that offense click
the way it has so far withBrady. Yeah, fair question. The
Bills haven't been a good team yet, but they did beat the Jets and
the Giants each too obviously have onewin, so you know, we'll see
(30:11):
a what happens with this Patriots offensiveline. It's pretty clear that it's affecting
Sony Michelle in that ground game.Fortunately for Bill Belichick and Tom Brady,
it doesn't seem to really be impedingBrady too much. He's still remaining upright
for the most part. As faras Buffalo goes, No, I don't
think they're ready for this yet,but I'm believing in Buffalo a little bit.
(30:32):
Josh Allen appears to be making somestrides. That defense has been great
all along, continues to be.I like the direction of this football team.
And when you look elsewhere in theAFC, we mentioned a team like
the Steelers and the brown too.You know a lot of people expected at
least be a little bit more inthis thing. At this point, you
look at a team like the disappointingChargers. The Bills have a chance to
(30:53):
separate a little bit in the wildcardrace if nothing else, although I don't
think Sean McDermott wants to talk wildcardright now. Three and oh, I
think he's thinking bigger things, haddinginto New England one Sunday. Is it
my early onset dementia or did youjust trip on one? Arthrow? Who
did the Jets be? I thinkthe Jets are? And three aren't they?
Yeah? My bad, which isneither here nor there. You just
stopped me there in my dress thatI feel so bad for Adam Gays that
(31:15):
I'm gifting him a victory years well, I mean they should be two and
one. Feel good those games havegone, but they're definitely in trouble,
there's no question about that. Shouldbe a lot of fun to watch,
really interesting weekend. We didn't touchon it, but as we go,
Arthur, I know, obviously thetwo and one Vikings and the two on
one Bears in Chicago is going tobe a huge game for the NFC North,
(31:37):
which is the best division in footballright now, and that'll be a
titanic defensive struggle. And then onSunday night, really looking forward to the
Dallas Cowboys visiting the New Orleans Saints. You know, I thought what the
Saints did going into Seattle and Bridgewaterwasn't great. He was good enough,
but winning in Seattle in September orever is practically impossible. And they really
(31:59):
were dominant for the first two anda half three quarters of that game.
And then you get Dallas coming in, who arguably has been the most dominant
team in the NFL through three weeks. But again you look at the opponents.
They haven't played anybody yet. Thisis going to be a really stiff
test for them after getting kind oflayups the first three weeks. Yeah,
excited for that one for sure.If the Saints, you know, pull
off another stunner and moved to twoand oh with Teddy behind center, then
(32:22):
I think things start to get alittle bit more real. The schedule remains
really difficult. Now that being said, I just I'm fascinated with the Dallas
Cowboys. I think this switched toKellen Moore, the rookie play caller who
has just had a profound effect onDAK Prescott and that entire offense has been
really neat. And then again,I mean I've been saying all along.
Obviously the defense is awesome, andwe'll see what it's able to do against
(32:44):
Alvin Kamara. That's going to bejust a really really fun matchup. Those
linebackers against Kamara, someone I mistakenlystarted to write off after the Drew Brees
injury. Kind of throw a fantasyfootball lens and then all Kamara does is
go out there and put his capeon and just put the Saints on his
Sunday. It'll be interesting, Arthur, I don't know. I think that
the Dallas offense actually has a chanceto be really good. I think Dak
(33:07):
Prescott is probably a hair overrated.He doesn't belong in the top echelon of
NFL quarterbacks, but he is playingvery well and is certainly good enough to
win big games with, including SuperBowls, if the rest of the team
can get you there. The offensiveline is not what we remember from a
couple of years ago, but stillone of the best in the NFL.
With Zeke Elliott, They're obviously solid. I know where you're going. You
(33:28):
don't believe in the defense as muchas I do. You're setting it up.
It's not that I don't believe init as much as you do.
I don't think they've really proven anythingyet, and I think the New Orleans
test is going to be really interestingbecause they have basically faced nobody so far.
Again, we know there are somestuds there, but there's also some
question marks on that defensive line andthere continue to be a couple of question
(33:49):
marks in the secondary. Going tobe a fascinating test, and they could
lose the game and still be afavorite in the NFC. There's but if
New Orleans has their way with thatdefense, I think that could be a
sign of some trouble to come fromsome other good offensive teams. So all
kinds of reasons to be excited aboutthe Sunday night game this week. Guys,
we're out of time. We reallyappreciate you joining us this week on
(34:09):
our Pro Football Weekly NFL podcast.I hope you will continue to join us
every week here as well as onour Pro Football Weekly Chicago podcasts. For
those of you who are Bears fans, Packers fans like the NFC North Our
thanks as always to our sponsors,Dan Mott, such an outstanding job producing
for us every week, the guysthat Numfrees McGee for helping us out with
(34:30):
some music to dress this thing upa little bit, but most of all,
thanks to all of you for listening. We'll talk to you again next
week on our Pro Football Weekly NFLpodcast
Hi, everybody. Welcome to anotheredition of our Pro Football Weekly NFL podcast.
I am Hub ark actually executive editorand general manager at Pro Football Weekly.
I'm joined by our managing editor,Arthur Arkish and Arthur. Things starting
to settle down a little bit,I guess in the NFL as we get
to week four, we starting tohave an idea of maybe which of these
(00:33):
undefeated two and one teams are forreal, which of the teams that are
struggling still have a chance to turnit around. But there's a couple franchises
where it looks like if something doesn'thappen quickly, there could be some coaching
changes coming. We always wonder aboutthese early season coaching moves and you know
who's going to jump first. Butparticularly in Washington where that club, I
(00:57):
don't want to say they were embarrassed, but clearly was not competitive for the
most part on Monday Night against aBear's team that a lot of people are
still trying to figure out as acoach in Jay Gruden, who is in
trouble. We're hearing reports from variousplaces. You know, we've talked a
lot, I think over the yearsand even this year on this podcast about
(01:17):
the poor I don't want to saypoor, the frustrating ownership situation, their
front office situation. There not alot of consistency. Not one of the
best run NFL franchises, and itsounds like Daniel Snyder is looking for somebody
to blame and that Jay Gruden couldbe very much in trouble there. Who
was it one owner, I thinkit was Jed York one or two years
(01:38):
ago that famously said, well,you can't fire the owner. If ever
there was an instance where that ownerdeserved to kind of put his own ad
on the platter, it would beDaniel Snyder in Washington. And if ever
there was the obvious pivot. Sincethat's not happening, you would think Bruce
Allen might be on the shopping blockbefore anyone else. But ability in Washington
(02:00):
with football teams, in politics,wherever you're looking to discuss it seems to
really not exist. So Jay Gruden, Yeah, it was an embarrassing performance,
and yeah he did have case Keenumkind of thrown on him this year.
And the five turnovers certainly aren't allon Jay Gruden. All the injuries,
once again on this football team arenot on Jay Gruden. But there
(02:23):
will be a fall guy. AndI don't know what Vegas is updated.
Odds are on the first one togo down, but my guests is probably
Gordon is a top this list,just as we've kind of mentioned him first
in this conversation. Well, what'sinteresting about it? Are there as you
look at their track record, ClearlyBruce Allen is not qualified to be in
charge of football operations. On thebusiness side, the you know, owners
(02:44):
can have whatever executives they want,but Bruce Allen has control of this operation
and he is as unqualified and reallyincapable as Daniel Snyder. That's why this
franchise has had the results that ithas in recent years, in the couple
of decades since Snyder took the teamover. But what's interesting, and we're
not going to get into politics oror make any references or go anywhere else
(03:07):
here, but just with people ingeneral, when we see these incredible egomaniacs
and narcissists like a Daniel Snyder,who is the owner of this franchise,
every one of them has a sycophanor two who's around them, you know
who also falls into the same category, and that appears to be Bruce Allen.
And that's why he is safe.You know, Snyder, you know,
(03:28):
with Allen as his sidekick, hassomebody to deflect all of the blame
that the rightfully should go to Snyder, and so accorded reports that I'm hearing,
you know, Snyder not really lookingat Alan so much as the two
of them wondering if there's anything tobe salvaged by making a change. I
think it's unfortunate because I actually thinkJake Gruden is one of the most underrated
coaches in the league based on howcompetitive he has kept them for the most
(03:52):
part in recent seasons with all ofthe dysfunction of the organization. But at
the end of the day, youknow, these guys get paid a lot
of money. They know what therisk is. Jake Ruden certainly understands who
he's working for and where he's workingand it does seem likely that unless something
turns quickly, that there is goingto be in change in Washington, and
whether it's going to a Cup.I mean, you were there covering the
(04:13):
game on Monday night. You sawthere was as many Bears fans in that
stadium, it seemed as there wereWashington fans, And I'm sure it wasn't
fifty fifty, but clearly the localsthe fan base has started to turn off
or unhappy, and that is alwaysthe worst sign for a head coach in
the NFL, regardless of whether it'sreally his fault or not. Yeah,
(04:34):
there was a stunning number of emptyseats at kickoff, and certainly the reception
for you know, good and badBears plays that night was as noticeable as
anything on the Washington side. Beforewe kind of get to the next coach,
the obvious elephant in the room hereis Dwayne Haskins, the sixteenth overall
pick in the draft. That wouldbe the other sort of I don't know
(04:55):
if irony is the word, butsort of unfortunate part of this if they
do pull the plug on Jay Gruden, because I think he's got a chance
to be a pretty good quarterback developertoo, and I know we both share
the opinion that Dwayne Haskins has gota good chance to be a really good
one. Interestingly, case Keenum,we're taping here Thursday, did not practice
the first availability this week. Iapologized. I don't know what the injury
(05:16):
was. He got banged around prettygood by the Bears Monday night, and
of course they go to New Yorkwhere Daniel Jones will have his first home
start, Danny Dimes coming off thatbrilliant debut. It could be Dwayne Haskins
versus Daniel Jones. Remember Dwayne Haskins, the New Jersey boy who was very
disappointed not to be drafted by hishometown team. Well, and listen,
(05:38):
I do like Haskins a lot asa prospect, and I agree with you
that Gruden has done a great jobworking with both veteran quarterbacks and rehabbing him
and working with young quarterbacks since hetook that job. But at the end
of the day, that just doesn'tseem to be the focus there. And
a lot of people believe that thereason that Haskins didn't go ahead to Jones
(06:00):
and lasted to Washington in the middleof the first round is because of his
lack of experience At Ohio State.He had the one phenomenal season, but
you know, you see how MitchDrubiski is struggling in Chicago after just thirteen
college starts. I think Haskins hadfifteen or sixteen or something like that.
And that's the reason that Gruden hasnot wanted to rush him out there,
(06:21):
and most of the football people thatI talked to tend to agree with that
that that's probably not the way togo right now. And I don't think
Jay Gruden, I really Obviously peoplecan hear from my conversation. I respect
the guy, and I think he'saccomplished quite a bit. I don't think
he's the kind of guy, fromwhat a little bit I know about him,
who's going to cave to pressure fromon top to save his own job,
(06:45):
to do what is not right forthe young manner for the football team.
So if you do hear that Haskinsis going on the field for any
reason other than injury, obviously ifKeenom can't go, that becomes a different
story. Excuse me, but youknow, it just doesn't seem likely at
this stage of the season that Gruden'sgoing to go against what he thinks is
best for the player and for theteam by throwing him out there just to
(07:08):
try and save his own job.No, I get it. I guess
I was kind of more alluding towhether hask You know, the best interests
for Haskins is having someone like theexperienced Gruden versus you know, putting Daniel
Snyder and Bruce Allen once again inthe lead of another coaching change and kind
of potentially moving Haskins backwards after he'sjust starting to learn one playbook. It's
(07:30):
got a lot of hilarious of whatwe saw in Chicago a couple of years
ago with Mike Glennon getting the bigfree agent deal. Now Washington didn't have
to pay as much for Keenum,of course, but then it was the
quick hook after four weeks, andit will just have to see what happens
now with Keenum, of course,and Haskins and whether he can succeed given
what he's up against. The lastthing I'll say on this up it's disappointing
(07:50):
only because I really liked what Washingtondid this offseason, and I don't if
I myself saying that very often.Terry McLaurin is playing awesome football mont Sweat.
There is a ton of excitement aroundhim. Again, I think we
can all agree. Value on DwayneHaskins is sixteenth overall pretty solid. They
got another receiver I liked there laterin the draft and Calvin Harmon. A
(08:11):
lot of the moves made a lotof sense, and that's not something I
find myself saying often with this footballteam, it is a story we will
keep a close eye on. Again, there are rumors starting to pop all
over the league that Gruden seed isabout as hot as it can get,
and he is not alone. He'sjust at the top of the list.
Folks in Atlanta are starting to getrestless too. Dan Quinn blew everything up
(08:31):
this offseason, fired all three ofhis coordinators, decided he was going to
handle his defense all by himself.Now, it's not as if they haven't
been competitive. That was kind ofa gut wrenching three point loss in Indianapolis
this last weekend, although it wasn'tas close as to suggests, because they
did get the last touchdown to closeto a three point margin and they did
(08:52):
come home and get them must winover Philadelphia. That is why you find
dan Quinn not being discussed quite asmuch as Gruden. But there is no
question that the folks in Atlanta aredisappointed. They also, in my estimation,
had a very good off season interms of the approvements they tried to
make. A lot of their problemslast year seemed to be as much injuries
as they were lack of talent,and most of those injured players did return
(09:13):
this year. Now, losing KeyanO'Neill again this year for the season,
it appears, is a devastating injurybecause he's one of the tour three most
important people on that defense. Butthat's still just one player. With everything
that's happened in the off season,expectations were for Atlanta to at least look
better because they really kind of embarrassedthemselves in the opener in Minnesota. To
(09:35):
look better and be more competitive thanthey've been through the first three weeks of
the season. Yeah, And Ithink the key, as he said,
is at the top by Quinn makingthe same moves that he saw his old
buddy Pete Carroll cross country last year, and cleaning out the coordinators and kind
of putting more of the onus onhimself while he's put himself out there.
And you know, they're off tothe disappointing start obviously amiss the playoffs at
(09:56):
seven and nine last year. Idon't know if it would surprise anyone if
Dan Quinn never truly recovers from twentyeight to three. I mean, just
look at the arc of his career, you know, five hundred and year
one goes to the super Bowl inthe year two, out in the divisional
round in year three, out ofthe playoffs last year, and looking toward
you know, it seems to beheading in that direction if things don't get
(10:16):
turned around quickly. And we've beenhearing rumblings for a while that Arthur Blank
isn't going to have a ton ofpatients after seeing the way Queen Quinn His
you know, handled thing. Oneof the things that people have to keep
an eye on with these coaching changes, though, because it always is a
consideration is if you're going to dothis week three, week four, even
week eight of the season, unlessyou are promoting from within, who are
(10:37):
you going to put in charge?Who's going to be that interim head coach?
Now in Washington that is a verysolid veteran staff, there are a
number of choices at least then anAlan As Snyder could make to make the
interim head coach. You know,Matt Cavana, Gregmanuski are guys who come
to mind right at the top ofmy head. Although you know, the
job Menuski is doing with that defenseis has been questionable. You look in
Atlanta and one of the byproduct ofwhat Quinn did this offseason is by bringing
(11:03):
in three new coordinators. There isnowhere for Arthur Blank to go and say,
well, I'd feel much better withone of these guys. You know,
he doesn't know these guys all thatwell yet hasn't had them working for
him. So is there anybody onthe street. You know, people are
going to start ridiculous rumors about JimHarbaugh, who has his problems obviously the
University of Michigan, and could therebe an end season change. Jim Harbaugh
(11:26):
could be back in the NFL nextyear. I don't think it's going to
happen, but it certainly is apossibility. But a coach of that illk
is not suddenly going to be availableweek three, week four, week five
to make a change like this.And in the case of the Falcons,
unlike Washington, a lot of peoplethought this could even be a playoff team,
and so Blank has to be verycareful. And I think as much
(11:48):
because of circumstances as anything else,Quinn is going to continue to get a
longer leash than than Gruden is inWashington. And finally, there's a third
coach that we have to add tothis conversation. I mean, you could
probably talk about a dozen't but theguys that are really under tremendous pressure right
now. And this is the mostinteresting of all because, as we know,
if you know anything about the NFL, the Pittsburgh Steelers change head coaches
(12:11):
about as often as people change houses. I mean, I mean, you
know, they just they get settled. They don't overreact, they don't make
quick moves over the last I don'tknow what thirty five. I'm just guessing
off the top of my head.I should look this up before we started,
but from Chuck Noll to Bill Kawerto Mike Tomlin, this is it.
(12:31):
That's the less yeah, over thelast three four decades, And so
the idea that Tomlin is going tobe out week three, week four,
week five sees highly unlikely. Butyou certainly could make the argument that the
Pittsburgh Steelers at owe and three arethe most disappointing team right now in the
NFL. Yes, you could.And if anyone's totally stunned by it in
(12:54):
watching everything that's unfolded there over theprevious handful of months, then I kind
of say shame on them. SoI don't know, this one would be
stunning to me. The Steelers justsigned Mike Tomlin to a two year extension
in July, signed him through twentytwenty one again to to try and turn
the page from Antonio Brown to youknow, try and make a change along
(13:16):
that offensive line, to to reallymake a ton of changes on a defense
that's been sagging for a couple ofyears now. I don't know. I
think Mike Tomlin continues to be prettyimpressive in the way he is able to
handle personalities. You know, hisin game management maybe always will leave a
little bit to be desired, butI think this would be an instance.
Pub It's interesting because we're here inChicago and these are the final days of
(13:39):
Joe Madden's tenure here. We're allassuming and I've maintained that the grass is
not going to be green around thisone, and I would feel very strong
in the same way if the Steelerswere to make a rast decision on Mike
Tomlin right now. You know,it's interesting when you look at NFL coaches,
there are some that are much betterXS and OS, strategic game managers,
the hardcore you know, technical coaches, and there are others who get
(14:03):
by by their ability to build aculture, by motivation, by the way
they handle players. Tomlin is clearlyin that group of the ladder. You
know, there are many who havequestioned his actual football acumen versus his ability
to oversee a locker room in agroup, and it really I was talking
to one very well connected, highlyplaced the NFL executive just the other day
(14:26):
about this one, and he hada really interesting comment for me. He
said, you know what, ifMike Munchak was still in Pittsburgh and not
in Denver, I think Mike Tomlinwould be in a lot more trouble right
now. But this again always getsback to what's the move that's going to
make you better? Not I mean, none of these teams, well,
Washington, I don't know, butAtlanta and Pittsburgh are not going to make
(14:46):
coaching changes just to try and mollifyfans and sell a couple of tickets.
The ownership in these two organizations andthe front offices are much much too well
established and much too experienced to dosomething like that. So we are not
predicting the Mike Tomlin is going tobe an end season casualty, but there
is no question that the pressure ismounting dramatically there a ton of a segue
(15:07):
here, aren't three? If youwill? And then we're gonna have to
take our break in a couple ofminutes. Is it is interesting to look
at all these young coaches and whatis happening there and who's hot out of
the box and who people are stillkeeping an eye on. And I think
you got to start in Green Bay, where the Packers are a surprising three
and oh they have played very wellon defense, but literally have had one
(15:30):
good quarter of football on offense,and that was the first quarter against Minnesota
two weeks ago, and yet it'sbeen enough. And so certainly Matt Lafleur
is getting high marks in Green Bayfor being three and oh, but this
is also a team that we justhave to continue to keep an eye on
because the offense is not working yet. And with Adam Aaron Rodgers under center,
(15:52):
that strikes a lot of people istough to get their arms around.
Yeah, not me totally though.Look at the defenses take play. I
mean the Bears, the Vikings,and the Broncos. Those are and I
know the Broncos numbers don't back itup right now, but look at the
coach, look at the personnel,that's a pretty unique opening slate for a
new offensive minded head coach to installa new offense. I hope there's more
(16:15):
similarities to Chicago. Remember Matt Neggiegetting all these accolades last year right out
of the gate, and who didhe retain? It was a veteran defensive
mind whose unit he was leaning onearly in the season. Now, I
agree Mitch Terrbiski at Aaron Rodgers arekind of apples to oranges comparisons here,
but this, to me is thatsame setup. A rookie head coach has
that experienced sidekick on the other sideof the football, and it's a great
(16:38):
situation to be able to lean onhim early. There's no doubt that's what
they're doing in Green Bay. Defenseis even exceeding expectations, and there's little
doubt in my mind anyway that thisoffense is going to awaken sooner than later.
And yeah, I think what MattLaflora has done thus far very impressive,
even if the offense is not,you know, reaches potential just yet.
(16:59):
Yeah, I mean, I thinkthe interesting part of it though,
because your your analogy is certainly morethan fair. But when you go back
and compare the Bears offense under MitchDrubisky didn't struggle quite the way the Packers'
offense has these first three weeks withAaron Rodgers. That said, three and
OZ is three and o, andthe marks are very high on Matt Lafleur.
H. Now, let's talk abouta guy who's oh and three who
(17:22):
has surprised people with how competitive histeam has been, and that is Zach
Taylor. You know, uh,you know when you go, I'm sorry,
Matt Taylor laid it right. That'show well we know this kid.
M The Bengals, uh, youknow, obviously going nowhere. But here's
a kid, and I'm sorry Isay kid, but I believe he's thirty
five thirty six years old, whichis a kid by NFL coaching standards,
(17:45):
who has come in and taken ateam that pretty much everybody predicted to be
last in the AFC North, andthey are. They're probably going to be,
but but they have been in everygame, um and probably should have
beaten the two and one Seahawks andthe three and oh Bills, right and
yet to go on the road inboth of those instances, and hang tough.
Yeah, there was the forty nineers kind of ugly one at home
(18:07):
in between, but Taylor is showingsome things, especially playing with a short
deck, especially defensively. But you'veseen signs of that LA offense, Andy
Dalton, I believe it's number twoor number three in the NFL. And
passing yardage, you know, TylerBoyd, he's kind of reinvented John Ross
a little bit. So there havebeen some encouraging signs on offense for sure,
(18:30):
probably more than than many of usexpected coming out of Cincinnati. And
then maybe we wait until after thebreak, but obviously we have to stay
in the division and discuss another rookiehead coach who certainly is feeling the heat
already. Up. Welcome back everybody, and thank you for being with us
(18:51):
again this week. We want tothank all of our great sponsors and of
course our outstanding executive producer Dan Mott, who does such a miraculous job for
us here at Pro Football Weekly inShaw Media with all things video, audio,
anything that needs engineering. We wouldbe lost without Mott, and we
do want to thank Arthur's buddies thatUmfrees McGee, the outstanding Chicago band who
(19:14):
is kind enough to let us usesome of their great work, some of
their music for our sound bumps andour intro beds. If you want to
check out um Frees McGee, getto their website. They appear pretty regularly
locally and we really appreciate the guyshelping us out. They're also a big
Bears fans guys, so maybe anotherreason to enjoy that band. Arthur,
where we left off, I believewith you either making reference to or alluding
(19:40):
to a coming conversation about the ClevelandBrowns. You know, some people are
calling the Browns a disappointment. They'veactually been exactly what I expected them to
be. There's no way that thisteam was ever a super Bowl contender,
and I don't know if they're apotential Playoff contender or not. So far
they're not, but they do haveenough talent to get better. It's the
construction of that ball club that hasbothered me all along, when you talk
(20:00):
about culture building and some of thesome of the interesting characters they've added,
but also the unknown about the coaches. Now, I do think the world
John Dorsey and he believes that FreddieKitchens is the guy. But as outside
analysts and observers, we didn't knowenough about Kitchens going in to be able
to have an opinion as to whetherhe was going to make an NFL head
(20:22):
coach or not. And early onthe signs are mixed. At best,
I think you would say, yeah, you're putting it nicely. He's really
embarrassed himself on more than a fewoccasions, whether you're talking about play calling
or some of his curious explanations.Take the fourth and nine draw play last
Monday night, for instance. Thatwas about as bizarre as you'll ever see
in an NFL game. But hedoes not appear to be consistently maximizing what
(20:49):
he has to work with. Itdoes appear hub that Baker Mayfield's leaky protection,
especially on the edges, are inhis head right now. He is
escaping the pocket way too early.It seems like he's seeing ghosts back there.
And he's almost always escaping to hisright too, which I'm quite sure
that defensive coordinators are taking note of. Oh yeah, the defensive coordinator he
(21:10):
will now prepare for it come Sunday. That would be Don Martindale and the
Ravens. So that's what we needto point out here. Yes, the
Browns are one and two. Yes, they have been whole well, I
find them to have been wholly disappointing. I did pick them to win the
division. They haven't had a lotof you know, they haven't had a
lot of layoffs. They went outto the Jets and took care of business
and got their one win. Butthey've played some tough defenses in the Titans
and the Rams and now Baltimore.So if you're looking for that soft landing,
(21:34):
I'm not quite sure it comes tothis Sunday either. Well, but
the flip side of it is weevaluate the head coach is the Titans defense
may not be that bad, butas a football team, they haven't looked
too good since they left their routeof the Browns on opening Day. And
you know, Arthur, you justtouched on it, though you kind of
touched on it when by it thereason they clearly were not a pick for
(21:55):
me coming into the season, beyondsome of the questions about you know,
care some of their stars and youknow, the coaching questions that all we
need to learn about Freddy Kitchens,who may be fine by the way he's
had three games. You know,we'll see what happens. But you knew
coming in they were gonna have oneof the worst offensive lines in football.
It is the worst offensive line infootball. And you do not play playoff
(22:18):
games with one of the worst offensivelines in football. You just don't get
there. Yeah, and John Dorsey, for all the good he's done,
let's call it like it is.He traded Kevin Zieler for Olivia Vernon,
who's given them nothing. He wentinto the season looking to protect the first
number first overall, picking last year'sdraft with Greg Robinson a bush several times
over. So these problems were foreseeable. I do want to add, though,
(22:42):
too. Almost as rare as afourth and nine draw play in the
NFL is entering a game without yourentire starting secondary, as Cleveland did Monday
night versus the Rams. So somemight argue it was heroic for them to
remain in that football game and forJared Goff and the Rams offense to be
as discombobulated through the air as itwas. So I just want to make
(23:03):
sure to point that out. Andthe hope, certainly in Cleveland has to
be that they're gonna be a lothealthier, that they're gonna have Denzel Ward
and Greedy Williams and Damarius Randall andthe whole crew back as Lamar as they
visit you know, Lamar and thatRavens offense. Well, yeah, let's
be clear. I mean, theCleveland Browns are not an outstanding football team.
They're not good football team yet,but they do have a number of
(23:26):
outstanding players. They have some verygood players, and so there are going
to be ups and downs. They'removing in the right direction. I think
the world of John Dorsey is anevaluator, and I think that they're going
to get there. I just thinkthey've got a lot more work to do.
And it's interesting you look at thismatchup this week as they go to
Baltimore. The Ravens to me areanother team that is a bit overrated in
(23:48):
my mind because those first two wins, while wildly impressive, were layups,
you know when you look at whothey were playing. And then they go
out to Kansas City and I knowit good in the end that it was
a five point game, but theywere never really a threat to win that
football game. And watching Lamar Jackson, some of his flaws as a passer
were exposed in that Kansas City game. He also did make some big throws.
(24:11):
They definitely got away with an offensiveinterference on that fourth and forever play
that led to a touchdown. Butbeyond that, what you see with Jackson
is a lot of his big plays, and actually this is true with Patrick
Mahomes too. It all comes aftereverything's broken down. It's not as if
this guy has suddenly become a finishedquarterback in the NFL. He is a
great athlete, there's no question aboutthat. But when you're playing schoolyard football
(24:33):
all the time, which is whatLamar Jackson is doing right now, sometimes
that's going to go as badly asit does go well. And so I
think the Ravens have still got plentyto prove too. Yeah, that's a
great point by you. It canbe a blessing and a curse, and
there's no doubt about it that theyhave a long ways to go and that
this is going to be an interestingearly look at what appeared to be the
two favorites in this division, evenwith the Browns at one and two,
(24:56):
because I think we've all written offthe oen three, Steelers, the Bengals,
I don't know if you feel differently. I don't have much to say
about Brian Floor as their Kyler Murraybecause as rookie head coaches look at what
they're working with. But I dothink we need to very quickly mention Vic
Fangio and the O and three DenverBrocos and a stat that I just cannot
get over, how it's Vix defensein Denver that is the only one in
(25:18):
the NFL without not only a takeaway, but a sack through three games.
To me, truly, it defieslogic. Well, I agree with you
that it is a bit surprising,maybe stunning, but I don't think it
defies logic. And I think wemay have talked about this Pro Football Weekly
Chicago podcast up to that Bears gamethat Denver defense is not as talented as
(25:41):
people assume that it is, youknow, prior to Vis getting there and
that defense being very good in recentyears, it was really stacked at all
three levels, you know. Andyet when you look at the players that
have left there, either via freeagency or personnel decisions over the last couple
of years, they had the besttrio of cornerback in the NFL for three
or four seasons. They've only gotone now and Chris Harris Junior. They
(26:03):
had some studs upfront, like MalikJackson, who wasn't the player that he
was in Denver once he left.But right now, other than Derek Wolfe,
they've got some youngsters up there thatthey're trying to develop. And then
most tellingly, even at linebacker,you know, clearly you've got a great
pair on the outside and Von Millerand Bradley Chubb, but they don't get
nearly as much help inside from ToddDavis and some of these other guys as
(26:25):
they used to get when they hada Danny Trevivan and when they had a
Brandon Marshall there. So yeah,it's disappointing. But I hope that John
Elway understands, because I love VicFangio, that you got to give him
some more talent before you can expecthim to work the miracles with that defense
that he did in Chicago. Yeah, great points by you. I mean,
and look at some of the recentdrafts. I mean, I think
it was DeMarcus Walker, second roundpick. He's given them absolutely nothing in
(26:48):
his first couple of seasons. Ifyou're gonna let a keep to leave and
Bradley Roby escape obviously trading to Leablast year to the Rams and Bradley Roby.
I know Houston's happier with him,you know, with the Texans.
Now, well, then you gottamake sure you restock the cupboard. And
you know we in Bryce Callahan.There's not a lot of guys you'd rather
root for a truly, really goodfootball player. But it's now going to
(27:11):
be another four to six weeks beforehe makes his Bronco's debut. With this
chronic foot issue. They're missing himdesperately. I love Drew Lock, I
love Dalton Risner. We'll see ifthose turn out to be the correct decisions,
trading back in round one, stockpilingto rebuild the offense in round two.
But I think that it's fair tosay that the Broncos probably could use
(27:32):
a Devin Bush in the middle ofthat defense right now. They've missed Todd
Davis obviously, let Brandon Marshall go, so as stew points by you.
And now that being said, Vick'sgoing to have to find some solutions because
there are no there's no help onthe way in the in the near horizon,
and now they got another tough onewith the Jaguars seemingly a bit reborn
under Gardner Minshew coming in and threateningto leave Denver at oh and four,
(27:55):
right, arthurw we're in a littleshort on time. I'm gonna moonwalk here
on you for just a minute beforewe take a look at one more big
game, arguably one of the biggestgames of the weekend. I am not
writing off Pittsburgh yet. I believeyou just did a couple of minutes ago.
I do think that it is avery early season four must win,
but they've got a must win Mondaynight at home against Cincinnati. This is
(28:15):
a game on primetime that they shouldbe able to find a way to win.
If they do, either the Ravensor the Browns are going to have
one more loss coming out of thisgame this weekend, and so at one
and three, if they can gethot, things are still salvageable. I'm
not predicting that so much as again, you know, when you look at
everything that's wrong with Cleveland, alot of that is what's right with Pittsburgh.
(28:37):
They've got one of the best offensivelines in football. They had enough
in James Connor at running back lastyear. You got to wonder if he
can't find it again. Clearly,Juju Smith Schuster is a number one wide
receiver, and there is more talenton defense than they've had in recent years.
Again, they're they're in trouble,there's no question about that. But
I think the Steelers in a mustwin Monday Night if they can get that
(29:00):
and get a little mojo going.I kind of like Mason Rudolph at quarterbacks,
So we'll see what happens there.But the other big game that I
wanted to get to, I believethe only battle of undefeated's this weekend.
You know, obviously Kansas City goingto Detroit Detroit at two oh and one,
so I guess technically that's a battleof undefeated's. But with the three
and New England Patriots taking on thethree and oh Buffalo Bills, it is
(29:26):
easy to point out that the combinedone loss record of Buffalo's opponents is one
and eight, I believe, oris it o and nine? It might
be it's either one in eight oroh and nine, But the Patriots opponents
have the same record. So whatyou come back to is the pedigrees and
the talent of these two teams.I'm sure the Patriots are a heavy favorite,
and I'm reasonably sure they're going towin this football game. But you
(29:48):
do have to ask the question,how many more injuries on the offensive line
can the Patriots handle? How oftencan they continue to rejigger this thing basically
now working with cast off from otherteams and continue to have that offense click
the way it has so far withBrady. Yeah, fair question. The
Bills haven't been a good team yet, but they did beat the Jets and
the Giants each too obviously have onewin, so you know, we'll see
(30:11):
a what happens with this Patriots offensiveline. It's pretty clear that it's affecting
Sony Michelle in that ground game.Fortunately for Bill Belichick and Tom Brady,
it doesn't seem to really be impedingBrady too much. He's still remaining upright
for the most part. As faras Buffalo goes, No, I don't
think they're ready for this yet,but I'm believing in Buffalo a little bit.
(30:32):
Josh Allen appears to be making somestrides. That defense has been great
all along, continues to be.I like the direction of this football team.
And when you look elsewhere in theAFC, we mentioned a team like
the Steelers and the brown too.You know a lot of people expected at
least be a little bit more inthis thing. At this point, you
look at a team like the disappointingChargers. The Bills have a chance to
(30:53):
separate a little bit in the wildcardrace if nothing else, although I don't
think Sean McDermott wants to talk wildcardright now. Three and oh, I
think he's thinking bigger things, haddinginto New England one Sunday. Is it
my early onset dementia or did youjust trip on one? Arthrow? Who
did the Jets be? I thinkthe Jets are? And three aren't they?
Yeah? My bad, which isneither here nor there. You just
stopped me there in my dress thatI feel so bad for Adam Gays that
(31:15):
I'm gifting him a victory years well, I mean they should be two and
one. Feel good those games havegone, but they're definitely in trouble,
there's no question about that. Shouldbe a lot of fun to watch,
really interesting weekend. We didn't touchon it, but as we go,
Arthur, I know, obviously thetwo and one Vikings and the two on
one Bears in Chicago is going tobe a huge game for the NFC North,
(31:37):
which is the best division in footballright now, and that'll be a
titanic defensive struggle. And then onSunday night, really looking forward to the
Dallas Cowboys visiting the New Orleans Saints. You know, I thought what the
Saints did going into Seattle and Bridgewaterwasn't great. He was good enough,
but winning in Seattle in September orever is practically impossible. And they really
(31:59):
were dominant for the first two anda half three quarters of that game.
And then you get Dallas coming in, who arguably has been the most dominant
team in the NFL through three weeks. But again you look at the opponents.
They haven't played anybody yet. Thisis going to be a really stiff
test for them after getting kind oflayups the first three weeks. Yeah,
excited for that one for sure.If the Saints, you know, pull
off another stunner and moved to twoand oh with Teddy behind center, then
(32:22):
I think things start to get alittle bit more real. The schedule remains
really difficult. Now that being said, I just I'm fascinated with the Dallas
Cowboys. I think this switched toKellen Moore, the rookie play caller who
has just had a profound effect onDAK Prescott and that entire offense has been
really neat. And then again,I mean I've been saying all along.
Obviously the defense is awesome, andwe'll see what it's able to do against
(32:44):
Alvin Kamara. That's going to bejust a really really fun matchup. Those
linebackers against Kamara, someone I mistakenlystarted to write off after the Drew Brees
injury. Kind of throw a fantasyfootball lens and then all Kamara does is
go out there and put his capeon and just put the Saints on his
Sunday. It'll be interesting, Arthur, I don't know. I think that
the Dallas offense actually has a chanceto be really good. I think Dak
(33:07):
Prescott is probably a hair overrated.He doesn't belong in the top echelon of
NFL quarterbacks, but he is playingvery well and is certainly good enough to
win big games with, including SuperBowls, if the rest of the team
can get you there. The offensiveline is not what we remember from a
couple of years ago, but stillone of the best in the NFL.
With Zeke Elliott, They're obviously solid. I know where you're going. You
(33:28):
don't believe in the defense as muchas I do. You're setting it up.
It's not that I don't believe init as much as you do.
I don't think they've really proven anythingyet, and I think the New Orleans
test is going to be really interestingbecause they have basically faced nobody so far.
Again, we know there are somestuds there, but there's also some
question marks on that defensive line andthere continue to be a couple of question
(33:49):
marks in the secondary. Going tobe a fascinating test, and they could
lose the game and still be afavorite in the NFC. There's but if
New Orleans has their way with thatdefense, I think that could be a
sign of some trouble to come fromsome other good offensive teams. So all
kinds of reasons to be excited aboutthe Sunday night game this week. Guys,
we're out of time. We reallyappreciate you joining us this week on
(34:09):
our Pro Football Weekly NFL podcast.I hope you will continue to join us
every week here as well as onour Pro Football Weekly Chicago podcasts. For
those of you who are Bears fans, Packers fans like the NFC North Our
thanks as always to our sponsors,Dan Mott, such an outstanding job producing
for us every week, the guysthat Numfrees McGee for helping us out with
(34:30):
some music to dress this thing upa little bit, but most of all,
thanks to all of you for listening. We'll talk to you again next
week on our Pro Football Weekly NFLpodcast
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