July 18, 2023 • 32 mins
Are you ready to challenge your traditional understanding of employee engagement and workplace productivity?
Strap in for a transformational conversation with renowned expert, Jason Lauritsen, who compels us to rethink our current systems and beliefs.
In a riveting analysis, we explore how legacy management and HR practices have led to low global engagement over the past 30 years.
Drawing an insightful parallel between these outdated perceptions and the Matrix, we dissect how this misplaced view impacts overall performance and employees' experience, underscoring the need for a radical shift in perspective.
To connect with Jason Lauritsen, please visit:
Website: https://jasonlauritsen.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonlauritsen/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Pelè (00:00):
Hello happy people, welcome to the Profitable
Happiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr Pelèwith the Profitable Happiness
Podcast, and today I am excitedto be speaking with Jason
Lauritsen, who works ontransforming work and changing
lives through the power ofrelationships.
(00:23):
Now you might think, well,relationships, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Yeah, I got really.
No, you don't, because you'regoing to hear his definitions.
You're going to understand thatwork itself is viewed as a
relationship by employees, andleaders need to understand how
great relationships work so thatwe can get the right work done.
Jason, it is my honor.
I'm just so excited to hearyour points of view.
(00:44):
How are you doing?
Jason Lauritsen (00:45):
today.
I am awesome.
I'm better now, right.
Your energy is infectious, so Iam delighted to be with you.
Dr. Pelè (00:54):
Same here Now.
Jason, you are the author of anawesome book called Unlocking
High Performance.
This is how I found you.
I've got this friend calledGoogle and I like to ask him
questions like hey, what's thebest book on performance, for
example?
And guess who showed up?
You.
So I am so excited to hear yourviewpoint.
(01:14):
Let's get to the beginning ofall this.
If you were to describe for ourlisteners or viewers exactly
what the challenge is you dealwith in organizations that
requires them to unlock highperformance I mean, why is it
locked in the first place?
How would you review or answerthat question?
Jason Lauritsen (01:33):
Well, I think, huh, so let me, let me, let me
do it this way, let me do itthis way, and then I promise I'm
going to start abstract and getless abstract.
But I'm sort of a weirdo in thesense that I have come to
understand or describe my workvery similarly or like through a
kind of metaphor of in themovie the Matrix.
(01:56):
Like in the movie the Matrixand not everybody's seen that,
but hopefully most people arefamiliar with this but the idea
is, there's these, the machineshave sort of captured the planet
and turned humans intobatteries essentially.
But they know they have to keeppeople's brains, you know, you
know, sort of stimulated inorder to for the body to grow,
(02:16):
stay alive.
And so they created this thingcalled the Matrix.
And we're all, all these humansare plugged into the Matrix and
they think the Matrix is real.
And so they exist in the Matrix.
They don't resist the Matrix,they just go on being happy
batteries for this.
And then there's this group ofrebels that are sort of finding
the people that are starting tonotice the glitches in the
(02:37):
Matrix, and they invite them.
You know, this guy, morpheusshows up with a red pill, blue
pill, moment.
He shows up and says I knowyou're asking questions and I
can show you the truth.
But you know, I can show youthe door, but you got to walk
through it and he presents youwith this.
You can take the red pill andeverything changes.
Go down the rabbit hole andyou'll learn the truth.
(02:58):
Or you can take the blue pilland go back.
You'll never.
You know, we never had thisconversation and and what I?
I guess the the core problemthat I would say back to the
Matrix is that the way that wesort of the, the legacy of
management, the legacy of theway that organizations treat
people and think about work, isvery much a matrix that was
(03:22):
created 130 years ago when worksort of first came into
existence as we understand itmodern work, modern management
through industrial, theindustrial revolution,
industrialization, and at thatpoint in time, management was
created because humans weredoing work that really machines
should have been doing, but themachines hadn't been invented
(03:43):
yet.
So you needed this, this groupof people who were going to get
people, as Gary Hamill says, tobehave like semi-programmable
robots for long periods of time.
And so that was the birth ofmanagement and all of management
practice for the first severaldecades of existence, or about
getting people to behave likemachines and treating them like
(04:05):
machines.
So this is the Matrix.
This is the Matrix that we, weexist in, and so, at its core,
the problem is we live in anentirely different world today,
where work is created throughingenuity and creativity and
intellect and all of thesedifferent things that were of
(04:26):
zero value at that point, andyet so many of the management
processes, hr systems, the waywe think about people, the way
we think about work haven'tshifted.
Wow, and so there's thisfundamental break there, and
that's why you look at Gallup'snumbers continues to be global
(04:48):
engagement.
Is what?
17 to 20% in the US, it's 30%,whatever it is, yeah, really low
.
So 30 years to for the past 30years, right, since they've been
measuring it, yeah, sincethey've been measuring it and so
, and so that is at the heart ofit.
And so I guess to put a finerpoint on that is that I think
(05:10):
there's a lot of organizationsthat are well intentions, that
you know they're.
They're trying to do theirthing, they're trying to succeed
, they're trying to serve theircustomers there.
They have to hire all thesepeople, they want to help these
people to succeed in doing theirwork, but yet they're trapped
inside of this damn matrix ofbullshit.
(05:30):
Yeah, that's that they can'tbreak free from, and it's not
working for employees, and theyjust can't figure it out.
So so you have low engagement.
Low engagement leads to lowperformance.
Dr. Pelè (05:42):
All the other stuff.
Jason Lauritsen (05:44):
The heart of the problem.
Dr. Pelè (05:46):
And what a great way of painting a picture about that
problem.
I love your matrix analogy andI'll tell you one saying that I
just love about this topic.
There's a saying that goes youcan't see the picture when
you're in the frame.
Right, you know, you can't tellyou're in the matrix.
So you're like this is normal,this is good, but but it's
(06:07):
destroying your business Ifyou're a leader, it's destroying
your employee experience Ifyou're an employee, and so on.
So I think you really make apoint here that you're someone
who has stepped outside of thepicture, outside of the matrix,
and therefore you can see thatchallenge, and I just, I just
love that as a sort of aplaceholder way of describing
(06:27):
where the world is.
Jason, can you tell us how youstepped outside the picture?
How did you become JasonLawrence and the guy who can see
this challenge from afar and isnow ready to help us?
Jason Lauritsen (06:40):
What's your story?
Well, I'll tell you that the Iactually have been.
I've been thinking a lot aboutthis lately and one of the
things that, as I've beenthinking about it, talking about
it, I've come to realize isthat I thought every time I kind
of thought I had pinned downwhere it started from.
I think it actually went backeven farther than that and I've
(07:03):
come to realize that I think itstarted.
I think it started when I wasin elementary school, to be
honestly, or maybe maybe juniorhigh, I guess.
I distinctly remember thisstory and I've told the story.
I've always loved this story.
I always thought it was aboutintegrity, and I think it is for
sure, but it's also about work.
It's my.
(07:23):
It was about my dad.
My dad was a cattle buyer and sowe lived in Northwest Iowa, so
rural Iowa, right Farm country.
My dad, my dad, worked for acompany that would buy the
cattle from from you know thefarmers or the ranchers that you
know they, they raise them andthen he buys them, sends them
off and and then they turn theminto all the products that we,
(07:45):
that we consume from the storesand and so he part of that job
was he'd go out and he had allthese relationships.
It was a relationship businessand they did business on a
handshake.
So he'd go out, guys want tosell them, he'd get his quote
price and he'd make the dealwith a farmer, shake their hand,
and then he'd call it in.
And then they'd figure out thepaperwork later.
(08:06):
Right, but they made the dealon the handshake.
Well, there was one day I therewas one day that he had called
in, got his price, he'd gone out, done a deal.
He went back to call it in.
He and his boss said no, we'renot doing that deal because the
price changed Since you calledthis morning.
And my dad's like and my dadlost it.
And he's like no, we, I madethe deal.
I shook, I shook his hand,that's the number you gave me.
(08:28):
That deal is done.
And his boss said no, we're nothonoring that deal.
You need to go tell him it's adifferent price.
And my dad on that day it was asnowstorm, like an ice snowstorm
in Iowa he called my mom andsaid I need you to get in the
car and follow me.
They drove 180 miles in thisweather.
So that my dad and his words Idon't know why and like the
(08:54):
colorful language, but you knowpeople forgive me.
He said.
He said I was driving downthere to tell him to take that
car and stick it up his ass,like that was.
That was what he said, but hewas going to quit.
By the time he got there hisboss had gone home.
Thankfully he quit, turned inhis car and that was it.
Because he's like my my word isnot for sale.
Like my, integrity is not forsale.
(09:15):
And so and but I'm like and itis so, that's an awesome lesson,
right.
I got that lesson and as Ithink back on it now, I remember
distinctly thinking man, thisis, this is screwed up, like,
this is like what is this?
And then I listened to my momshe was a school teacher
complaining about how she wastreated and people complaining
about it.
And then I get my first jobsand they're all kind of jacked
(09:38):
up and I'm treated in very weirdways, and so I think it was
just a journey of being likewhat is wrong with?
this yeah, and then fast forwardthrough.
I was a recruiter and you getto see all kind of dysfunction
there.
And then I think, finally I gotinto.
I went into corporate HR, gotinto corporate HR leadership
because I'm like I like therehas to be a way to fix this,
(09:59):
yeah.
And so I went in and starteddoing the work and we did some
really incredible things and Isaw it happen.
I saw it happen.
I'm like you can do this, itdoesn't have to be this way.
And so there was that piece ofit that kind of fueled me.
And then I think what got melike what?
Where, when I started tofinally see the matrix right,
(10:21):
when I could understand that itexisted, was and so, like my HR
time was like when, you know,like the Neo and the matrix,
that can kind of see theglitches and starts to ask
questions, yeah.
But then I got to a tech companycalled Quantum Workplace.
I worked for this is post my HRexecutive days and I was
(10:41):
leading the best places to workteam there and the best play.
They have a employee surveytechnologies, the research
engine behind a bunch of bestplaces to work contest.
So we gather like hundreds ofthousands of employees surveys.
We do all this analysis and atthe end of each year we do these
analysis to kind of see whatthe drivers were.
You know what are the thingsare driving engagement and, and,
(11:03):
and.
There were these.
At the end of each year we'dproduce this list.
Here's the things most highlycorrelated with employees.
You know, engagement,satisfaction, whatever.
And I began to notice thatevery year we did this there was
the same things on there.
And then I started looking atthe reports that have been done
before I got there and I startedlooking around and then all of
(11:25):
a sudden, it's like the matrixappeared, that's like on every
significant data set you canfind about engagement, what
engages employees, what getsthem to be more committed and
perform at a higher level andstick around.
All these things are thingslike I need to feel valued and
trusted and cared for andappreciated and accepted.
(11:46):
And it like it hit me Like ifyou take those things and just
wrote them down and looked atthem and said to someone, what
am I talking about there?
They're going to say, well,you're probably describing a
marriage or a relationship orsome kind something right?
They would say work doesn'tsound like work, sounds like a
relationship, and that's when ithit me work is a relationship
(12:08):
and that's when.
That's when it all appeared,that's how, for me, the
liberation happened.
Dr. Pelè (12:14):
I have to say the idea of the very simple sounding
idea of work as a relationshipis very profound.
I mean, I share your history inthat I was a human resources
executive.
I was vice president of HR at ahealthcare institution and I
saw firsthand that what leadersare thinking is not necessarily
(12:36):
what employees are thinking.
It's like we have, it's likewe're like, these people are
thinking about the world thisway and it's diametrically
opposed to how employees see theworld.
And how can you really doanything together if you can't
see the world, the right matrix,if you're using your analogy,
if you're in the wrong bubble,how do you know what to do
(12:59):
together?
So I wonder if maybe we couldbring it down to a level of sort
of you know nuts and bolts foranyone listening.
You know you've written a greatbook.
You know in your book calledUnlocking High Performance, you
have specific strategies.
Maybe you could give us somereal things that people, some
nuggets people can take away.
(13:20):
That would help them view workas a relationship and help their
employees do the same thing.
Jason Lauritsen (13:27):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I mean, when you stepback there's I'll give you my
favorite, most practical toolthat actually I'll give you, two
I'll give you to.
The first one is and this issomething I stumbled into I
started using myself and then Istarted teaching it to others.
And have sense, you know, I'vebeen talking about and teaching
(13:48):
it.
I taught right about in thebook something I call the
relationship test, and this is avery simple thing that people
can use, managers can use whenthey're thinking about how
they're going to show up with anemployee.
So if I have the way it worksis if I'm a manager and I'm
thinking I'm heading into aninteraction with an employee,
let's say maybe I have to.
I have to give them somefeedback and it's going to be
(14:11):
some feedback that maybe they'renot going to be really excited
about hearing.
What you do is.
You take a moment, you stepback and you consider, okay, how
would I?
You know, you probably have aninstinct about how you would
handle that, but you step backand you say, okay, what if?
What if the person on the otherside of this interaction was my
(14:33):
best friend, right person inthe world that I, somebody I
really care about that.
I would never want to harmtheir relationship, and who I
know would tell me the truth,probably if I did, and you put
that person on the other sideand you just think through, if I
had to do the same thing withthat person, how would I do it?
Would it change the approachthat I'm about to use with this
(14:56):
employee?
And, and as I think about youknow, and so I actually the
easier way is to say, if Iapproached it the same way with
that person as I'm about toapproach it with the employee,
how would that go right?
If it would, if it would, youknow, maintain or build the
relationship.
You're probably fine.
If they would go like what'sthe matter with you and why are
(15:17):
you treating me this way?
Well, then it fails and youshould find a different way to
do it.
So, really, really simple.
So just put somebody, putsomebody that you really care
for on the other side, test it.
Just.
That's the easiest way torelationship.
Test it super practical, takes510 minutes, works in every
situation.
(15:38):
You know, if you're going tohave a team meeting to talk
about something that has somereal gravity to it, just imagine
, like, what if this was afamily meeting, or what if it
was a group of my friends?
How would I set the context?
How would I whateverrelationship test?
Yeah, that's number one.
The second thing I would say isthat that is profoundly
(15:59):
important and this is and Iwould guess that you and I share
this I would would have thesame type of advice, but for
years.
When organizations or leadersask me you know what?
What can we do practically?
What can we do to improveengagement, and without you know
?
The first question I would askthem is do you require managers
(16:23):
to have regularly scheduled oneon one conversations with their
people?
Because if the answer to thatis no, then it's like you don't
need to pay me anything else.
Go do that.
Your engagement will improve,because the reality is and I
mean even poor quality timetogether is better than no time
(16:49):
together.
I mean, this is you know.
I tell a story often about mydaughter when she was seven
years old.
Never forget this she taught meone of the most important
lessons of my life and of mybusiness is I was working on.
I think I was working on.
I was gonna write something IfI was when.
Like you, remember when FastCompany had love as the killer
app was kind of the headline allover the place.
(17:09):
So I was thinking about loveand the role of it, work,
whatever.
And so one day my daughter waswalking through she was seven at
the time and I'm like.
I said hey.
Bailey said how do you know ifsomebody loves you?
And she looked at me for aminute.
She thought she said number one, she goes.
She said they give me lots ofhugs and kisses, which is not HR
(17:33):
approved advice.
So that's scratch that Greatfor seven year olds and their
dad, but not for anybody else.
The second thing she said is thelesson I've never forgotten.
She just said very simply, theyspend time with me.
So you know, what struck me wasthat time is the currency of
(17:55):
relationships.
And so, organizationally, thisis really complicating, right?
Because as we're super busy andthings get busy, we squeeze for
efficiency, everybody's tryingto go faster, managers are very
tempted to cut out that time andthere's like I'm too busy to
make, like I've got 10 directreports.
How am I supposed to spend timewith each of them?
And I guess my response isalways at what cost are you not
(18:20):
spending time with them?
Because if you want to have arelationship with them, if you
want them to be engaged, if youwant them to perform that,
one-on-one conversation is themost important thing you can do,
and if you should have a way ora structure, an agenda, give
(18:40):
them an agenda to use.
But if even you don't have anagenda, just meet with people
and ask them this question whatis the most important thing we
need to talk about today?
That's it.
You ask that question.
Spend a half hour with thepeople on your team.
Engagement will increase,loyalty will increase, you'll
get better relationships, betterreturns.
(19:02):
It is really simple, but yougot to do the things that matter
.
Dr. Pelè (19:08):
Jason, I have to tell you that is a masterclass.
I mean, you have literallygiven away the farm.
I mean anyone you know.
Sometimes you hear that milliondollar idea and don't recognize
it.
This is one of them, and I'lltell you why, not to repeat what
you've said, but just to showyou how it so connects with me.
And I think that this is gonnabe similar for anyone listening.
(19:29):
Number one the relationship test.
That is so powerful for mebecause most of us look at the
world through our own hiddenbiases, meaning we have our
biases and we don't know thatthose biases are, you know,
guiding what we see.
That's the lens through whichwe see the world.
But when you force yourself totake those glasses off and put
(19:50):
that person or people in thecontext of if this was my best
friend, as you say, or, you know, through different glasses, all
of a sudden everything'sdifferent.
You're like, yeah, I wouldn'thave said that, would I?
I wouldn't have done this to mybest friend.
You know, that's just.
It's such a simple but powerfultest.
I love that.
And then the second one isreally personal to me, for
anyone, any father you talkedabout your father, your daughter
(20:12):
, for any father or mother, Isuppose, who has left you know a
relationship and you have an exand you're divorced and
therefore your child is nolonger spending time with you.
Anyone in that situation willtell you exactly what you just
said, which is time.
Time is the currency ofrelationships.
(20:35):
I mean, I can't tell you look,I got goosebumps just thinking
about it.
It's so powerful.
Thank you for sharing that.
I mean, what are your thoughtson my?
I'm sitting at a couch rightnow and you're my.
You're just guiding me, myfriend.
Jason Lauritsen (20:50):
No, listen, that's another, that's an even.
That's perhaps an even more, Ithink, salient or tangible way
to even grab on to it, becauseanybody that's been through that
knows and you really start tounderstand the value of time.
It's time or when you lose Ithink about one of the things
(21:13):
that just brought this intofocus for me.
In the last year had one of mybest friends in the world had a
disease very similar to ALS.
We lost him in the end of lastyear and he and I, though and
the thing is, as I reflected onour time together, like we were
(21:33):
very intentional about seeingeach other and to the point that
, like just a week before hedied, we had gotten together and
sat and talked and caught upand like that we invested time
and because of that, like Iregret not having the time with
(21:53):
him going forward, but I am sograteful that we invested that.
That's where relationshipshappen and we missed that.
Like we missed that.
When we start to understand andkind of the headline for me is
lead with relationship, when youstart putting relationship
first, you start understandingthings like, if I just invest
time in my people, so many otherthings, all this nonsense we
(22:18):
get distracted by at work and weget around the axle about how
do I, how do I give betterfeedback?
It's like, well, if you had abetter relationship with that
person, the way you give thefeedback wouldn't be as
important, because you wouldhave more trust and you would
have that bond.
And so relationship changeseverything, and so that's at the
(22:41):
heart of it.
Dr. Pelè (22:42):
It truly is, and I wonder what your viewpoint is on
the connection between theseintangibles like engagement,
like happiness, profitablehappiness in my case, these
intangibles that are really atthe core of what employees,
where they live, what they careabout, versus what leaders care
(23:03):
about, which is the bottom lineresults of an organization.
Give me some sales results, allof that stuff.
How do you bring those together?
How do you bring profitablehappiness?
How do you unlock profitablehappiness to create high
performance?
Jason Lauritsen (23:17):
Well, so I think there's a couple of things
Like in the way that I thinkabout all of this.
I think happiness is always areally that's a loaded word for
a lot of people, right?
Especially when?
Dr. Pelè (23:28):
you're talking about work.
Jason Lauritsen (23:31):
And I have that time said I would love my
employees to be happy, butthere's times where it's a
luxury, where they might not behappy all the time.
But what I really really wantis I want them to thrive.
That's at the end of the day.
I want them to be thriving atwork, I want them to be thriving
in their personal life, andthriving just means they're sort
of maximizing on, they're sortof moving in the direction of
(23:54):
the things that matter the mostto them, right?
And so the way that works forme is so, first off, the way I
define engagement.
Engagement's kind of at theheart of things.
So this worked for me.
The way I define engagement isthe degree to which an employee
is willing and able to performup to their potential at work.
(24:15):
So it's a willingness, which istheir decision, a commitment,
and the ability, which is theyhave the stuff they need to
perform at the level they'recapable of, or at least close to
that potential at that giventime.
So that's the output that we'relooking at.
To me, that is that's theprofitable.
Happiness is, if we can getengagement, then we get this
(24:37):
performance.
But in order to get thewillingness, there's three
variables, and so this is how Iteach engagement to leaders that
I learned over the years, likeengagement is this mystical
thing?
Leaders are like well, I knowit's important, I don't really
understand what it is.
I'm like it's simple, threevariables, and one of the
variables until recently washidden.
(24:58):
People didn't realize it wasthere Three variables.
The first one is satisfaction.
So that's the degree to whichmy experience of work, how my
experience of work, compareswith my expectations.
So that's what we measure insurveys and all that is like how
does what's happening to mecompared with what I expected or
hoped would happen?
(25:18):
Satisfaction.
The second is drive, which isdo I understand what we need to
get done and am I motivated todo that?
So that is drive.
That's where a lot of ourperformance management stuff
comes in, so a lot of work thathappens there.
The third variable, which isvital, is well-being, because
(25:40):
well-being is essentially it's aperformance capacity issue, and
so the degree to which I amwell affects what I even have to
offer and well-being.
That's true in any context.
And so this is really.
I call it the engagementequation.
You could call it a performanceequation for anything right
Well-being times, satisfaction,times, drive equals performance
(26:03):
outcomes, and so that's whereall of this matters.
And, inside of all of thesethings, the power of
relationship and connection thisis what makes it so powerful is
that when you buildrelationship, when you have
strong connection, it positivelyamplifies all of those
variables.
(26:23):
And, by the way, the importantthing about this is I put this
in a thing called the engagementequation is how I teach it.
So it's well-being, times,satisfaction, times, drive
equals engagement, and theimportant thing in that is that
if any one of those threevariables is diminished, it
zeros out the whole equation.
Yeah Right, so if my well-beingis in the dumpster, it doesn't
(26:46):
matter.
If you have world-classengagement practices or you have
the best performance managementin the world, I show up to work
and I've only got 10% to giveyou.
You only get in 10%.
That's if everything's perfect.
But relationships andconnection lifts all boats.
(27:06):
It's like putting a littleturbo charger on all three of
those variables.
That's how it ties together, atleast in my mind.
Dr. Pelè (27:16):
Not only in your mind.
I'm sold.
I'm literally like the choiryou're preaching to.
I love it.
I'll tell you one thing, infact, that I really like about
what you just did here is youstarted by defining things a
little bit better than what mostof us understand.
For example, you're verycorrect Most people don't
understand what happiness is.
They see it as this frivoloussort of hey, I feel good today,
(27:40):
or we got ping pong tables inthe foyer or something like that
.
And the truth is well, ofcourse, that's called hedonic
happiness.
The truth is, we're talkingabout eudaimonic happiness,
which is more closely related toengagement and focus and all
the things you've describedsatisfaction, for example.
So I think just defining thingsbetter and your engagement
(28:04):
formula and definition, it helpspeople understand things.
When you start, you take themback to definitions.
I think that's so powerful.
Jason.
What are you excited aboutright now?
What are you sharing with theworld and how can people get a
hold of you to be connected withthis, with whatever you're
sharing right now?
Jason Lauritsen (28:22):
Well, I mean I think well, I'll tell you what's
coming up that I'm excitedabout is so about, I don't know.
Not too long ago, a month ortwo ago, I had this sort of as I
am prone to do.
I've seen things coming acrossmy radar and I was seeing a lot
(28:46):
of nonsense about the battlesthat are waging over return to
office and hybrid work andremote work and what works and
what doesn't, and seeing ElonMusk and all of his genius
telling us that remote work isnonsense and all these silly
things and it's like, and so Iwas getting irritated about it.
(29:08):
And the media, of course, lovesthe clickbait, and so all the
articles are kind of likeclickbaity and they're very
polarizing.
And so I was like I knowthere's more to this story.
I know there is, but I want totalk to some people.
And so I threw out aninvitation to the folks on my
email list and asked them hey,has anybody else bothered by
this?
(29:28):
Would you like to have aconversation?
I put an open call for just a30-minute meeting and I had over
50 people book time in two days.
Like all the times I had weregone, and I was like, ok, well,
apparently people are feelingtension around this, and so I
spent a month doing theseconversations.
Downside is I got nothing elsedone.
(29:51):
The upside is I got a lot ofreally great information, and
I'm going to be unpacking what Ilearned through that and, I
think, trying to paint a morenuanced and accurate picture of
what's actually happening andwhat we need to be doing if we
want to really thrive.
I think we're in the secondinning of a nine inning ballgame
when it comes to the evolutionof work post-pandemic and
(30:14):
post-disruption to work and soI'm excited about that.
So that's what's coming overthe next several months.
If you want to be in on that,you can find me at my website,
jasonlortzencom, as we do, as wehave to do.
If you visit my website, you'regoing to get assaulted by
pop-ups and all kinds of ways.
You can sign up for mynewsletter.
You can just email me, jason,at JasonLortzencom.
(30:37):
You can hit me up as you did onLinkedIn.
I'm very responsive there.
If you can spell my last name,you can find me.
If you can't, then I'm terribleat the job.
Dr. Pelè (30:48):
It's got an E in it, Lorettson.
Jason Lauritsen (30:53):
Yes, L-A-U-R-I-T-S-E-N.
Dr. Pelè (30:55):
It's there, E-N.
Yes, oh, my goodness, Jason, Ihave really enjoyed learning
from you, talking about you andeven experiencing this last
thing you talked about, which isyou taking the red pill,
because you're opening up thewillingness for people to
understand maybe some truthsthat are you know.
You're just helping people seethe light.
(31:17):
That's the matrix thing, evenin what you're doing today.
That's powerful.
If people want to connect withyou, LinkedIn is obviously the
place that I'll share, but doyou have any other places that
you'd like people to go?
Find you on social media?
LinkedIn is the primary placewhere I like to connect with
people, so go to.
Jason Lauritsen (31:34):
LinkedIn.
That's where I post the most.
That's where you'll see themost of me.
Dr. Pelè (31:38):
All right.
Well, jason, thank you so much.
I've learned so much and Ireally enjoy talking with you.
It's been great to have you asa guest on Profitable Happiness.
Thank you.
Jason Lauritsen (31:46):
Thank you.
Dr. Pelè (31:49):
Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
For more episodes, visitDrPalletcom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
Hello happy people, welcome to the Profitable
Happiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr Pelèwith the Profitable Happiness
Podcast, and today I am excitedto be speaking with Jason
Lauritsen, who works ontransforming work and changing
lives through the power ofrelationships.
(00:23):
Now you might think, well,relationships, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
Yeah, I got really.
No, you don't, because you'regoing to hear his definitions.
You're going to understand thatwork itself is viewed as a
relationship by employees, andleaders need to understand how
great relationships work so thatwe can get the right work done.
Jason, it is my honor.
I'm just so excited to hearyour points of view.
(00:44):
How are you doing?
Jason Lauritsen (00:45):
today.
I am awesome.
I'm better now, right.
Your energy is infectious, so Iam delighted to be with you.
Dr. Pelè (00:54):
Same here Now.
Jason, you are the author of anawesome book called Unlocking
High Performance.
This is how I found you.
I've got this friend calledGoogle and I like to ask him
questions like hey, what's thebest book on performance, for
example?
And guess who showed up?
You.
So I am so excited to hear yourviewpoint.
(01:14):
Let's get to the beginning ofall this.
If you were to describe for ourlisteners or viewers exactly
what the challenge is you dealwith in organizations that
requires them to unlock highperformance I mean, why is it
locked in the first place?
How would you review or answerthat question?
Jason Lauritsen (01:33):
Well, I think, huh, so let me, let me, let me
do it this way, let me do itthis way, and then I promise I'm
going to start abstract and getless abstract.
But I'm sort of a weirdo in thesense that I have come to
understand or describe my workvery similarly or like through a
kind of metaphor of in themovie the Matrix.
(01:56):
Like in the movie the Matrixand not everybody's seen that,
but hopefully most people arefamiliar with this but the idea
is, there's these, the machineshave sort of captured the planet
and turned humans intobatteries essentially.
But they know they have to keeppeople's brains, you know, you
know, sort of stimulated inorder to for the body to grow,
(02:16):
stay alive.
And so they created this thingcalled the Matrix.
And we're all, all these humansare plugged into the Matrix and
they think the Matrix is real.
And so they exist in the Matrix.
They don't resist the Matrix,they just go on being happy
batteries for this.
And then there's this group ofrebels that are sort of finding
the people that are starting tonotice the glitches in the
(02:37):
Matrix, and they invite them.
You know, this guy, morpheusshows up with a red pill, blue
pill, moment.
He shows up and says I knowyou're asking questions and I
can show you the truth.
But you know, I can show youthe door, but you got to walk
through it and he presents youwith this.
You can take the red pill andeverything changes.
Go down the rabbit hole andyou'll learn the truth.
(02:58):
Or you can take the blue pilland go back.
You'll never.
You know, we never had thisconversation and and what I?
I guess the the core problemthat I would say back to the
Matrix is that the way that wesort of the, the legacy of
management, the legacy of theway that organizations treat
people and think about work, isvery much a matrix that was
(03:22):
created 130 years ago when worksort of first came into
existence as we understand itmodern work, modern management
through industrial, theindustrial revolution,
industrialization, and at thatpoint in time, management was
created because humans weredoing work that really machines
should have been doing, but themachines hadn't been invented
(03:43):
yet.
So you needed this, this groupof people who were going to get
people, as Gary Hamill says, tobehave like semi-programmable
robots for long periods of time.
And so that was the birth ofmanagement and all of management
practice for the first severaldecades of existence, or about
getting people to behave likemachines and treating them like
(04:05):
machines.
So this is the Matrix.
This is the Matrix that we, weexist in, and so, at its core,
the problem is we live in anentirely different world today,
where work is created throughingenuity and creativity and
intellect and all of thesedifferent things that were of
(04:26):
zero value at that point, andyet so many of the management
processes, hr systems, the waywe think about people, the way
we think about work haven'tshifted.
Wow, and so there's thisfundamental break there, and
that's why you look at Gallup'snumbers continues to be global
(04:48):
engagement.
Is what?
17 to 20% in the US, it's 30%,whatever it is, yeah, really low
.
So 30 years to for the past 30years, right, since they've been
measuring it, yeah, sincethey've been measuring it and so
, and so that is at the heart ofit.
And so I guess to put a finerpoint on that is that I think
(05:10):
there's a lot of organizationsthat are well intentions, that
you know they're.
They're trying to do theirthing, they're trying to succeed
, they're trying to serve theircustomers there.
They have to hire all thesepeople, they want to help these
people to succeed in doing theirwork, but yet they're trapped
inside of this damn matrix ofbullshit.
(05:30):
Yeah, that's that they can'tbreak free from, and it's not
working for employees, and theyjust can't figure it out.
So so you have low engagement.
Low engagement leads to lowperformance.
Dr. Pelè (05:42):
All the other stuff.
Jason Lauritsen (05:44):
The heart of the problem.
Dr. Pelè (05:46):
And what a great way of painting a picture about that
problem.
I love your matrix analogy andI'll tell you one saying that I
just love about this topic.
There's a saying that goes youcan't see the picture when
you're in the frame.
Right, you know, you can't tellyou're in the matrix.
So you're like this is normal,this is good, but but it's
(06:07):
destroying your business Ifyou're a leader, it's destroying
your employee experience Ifyou're an employee, and so on.
So I think you really make apoint here that you're someone
who has stepped outside of thepicture, outside of the matrix,
and therefore you can see thatchallenge, and I just, I just
love that as a sort of aplaceholder way of describing
(06:27):
where the world is.
Jason, can you tell us how youstepped outside the picture?
How did you become JasonLawrence and the guy who can see
this challenge from afar and isnow ready to help us?
Jason Lauritsen (06:40):
What's your story?
Well, I'll tell you that the Iactually have been.
I've been thinking a lot aboutthis lately and one of the
things that, as I've beenthinking about it, talking about
it, I've come to realize isthat I thought every time I kind
of thought I had pinned downwhere it started from.
I think it actually went backeven farther than that and I've
(07:03):
come to realize that I think itstarted.
I think it started when I wasin elementary school, to be
honestly, or maybe maybe juniorhigh, I guess.
I distinctly remember thisstory and I've told the story.
I've always loved this story.
I always thought it was aboutintegrity, and I think it is for
sure, but it's also about work.
It's my.
(07:23):
It was about my dad.
My dad was a cattle buyer and sowe lived in Northwest Iowa, so
rural Iowa, right Farm country.
My dad, my dad, worked for acompany that would buy the
cattle from from you know thefarmers or the ranchers that you
know they, they raise them andthen he buys them, sends them
off and and then they turn theminto all the products that we,
(07:45):
that we consume from the storesand and so he part of that job
was he'd go out and he had allthese relationships.
It was a relationship businessand they did business on a
handshake.
So he'd go out, guys want tosell them, he'd get his quote
price and he'd make the dealwith a farmer, shake their hand,
and then he'd call it in.
And then they'd figure out thepaperwork later.
(08:06):
Right, but they made the dealon the handshake.
Well, there was one day I therewas one day that he had called
in, got his price, he'd gone out, done a deal.
He went back to call it in.
He and his boss said no, we'renot doing that deal because the
price changed Since you calledthis morning.
And my dad's like and my dadlost it.
And he's like no, we, I madethe deal.
I shook, I shook his hand,that's the number you gave me.
(08:28):
That deal is done.
And his boss said no, we're nothonoring that deal.
You need to go tell him it's adifferent price.
And my dad on that day it was asnowstorm, like an ice snowstorm
in Iowa he called my mom andsaid I need you to get in the
car and follow me.
They drove 180 miles in thisweather.
So that my dad and his words Idon't know why and like the
(08:54):
colorful language, but you knowpeople forgive me.
He said.
He said I was driving downthere to tell him to take that
car and stick it up his ass,like that was.
That was what he said, but hewas going to quit.
By the time he got there hisboss had gone home.
Thankfully he quit, turned inhis car and that was it.
Because he's like my my word isnot for sale.
Like my, integrity is not forsale.
(09:15):
And so and but I'm like and itis so, that's an awesome lesson,
right.
I got that lesson and as Ithink back on it now, I remember
distinctly thinking man, thisis, this is screwed up, like,
this is like what is this?
And then I listened to my momshe was a school teacher
complaining about how she wastreated and people complaining
about it.
And then I get my first jobsand they're all kind of jacked
(09:38):
up and I'm treated in very weirdways, and so I think it was
just a journey of being likewhat is wrong with?
this yeah, and then fast forwardthrough.
I was a recruiter and you getto see all kind of dysfunction
there.
And then I think, finally I gotinto.
I went into corporate HR, gotinto corporate HR leadership
because I'm like I like therehas to be a way to fix this,
(09:59):
yeah.
And so I went in and starteddoing the work and we did some
really incredible things and Isaw it happen.
I saw it happen.
I'm like you can do this, itdoesn't have to be this way.
And so there was that piece ofit that kind of fueled me.
And then I think what got melike what?
Where, when I started tofinally see the matrix right,
(10:21):
when I could understand that itexisted, was and so, like my HR
time was like when, you know,like the Neo and the matrix,
that can kind of see theglitches and starts to ask
questions, yeah.
But then I got to a tech companycalled Quantum Workplace.
I worked for this is post my HRexecutive days and I was
(10:41):
leading the best places to workteam there and the best play.
They have a employee surveytechnologies, the research
engine behind a bunch of bestplaces to work contest.
So we gather like hundreds ofthousands of employees surveys.
We do all this analysis and atthe end of each year we do these
analysis to kind of see whatthe drivers were.
You know what are the thingsare driving engagement and, and,
(11:03):
and.
There were these.
At the end of each year we'dproduce this list.
Here's the things most highlycorrelated with employees.
You know, engagement,satisfaction, whatever.
And I began to notice thatevery year we did this there was
the same things on there.
And then I started looking atthe reports that have been done
before I got there and I startedlooking around and then all of
(11:25):
a sudden, it's like the matrixappeared, that's like on every
significant data set you canfind about engagement, what
engages employees, what getsthem to be more committed and
perform at a higher level andstick around.
All these things are thingslike I need to feel valued and
trusted and cared for andappreciated and accepted.
(11:46):
And it like it hit me Like ifyou take those things and just
wrote them down and looked atthem and said to someone, what
am I talking about there?
They're going to say, well,you're probably describing a
marriage or a relationship orsome kind something right?
They would say work doesn'tsound like work, sounds like a
relationship, and that's when ithit me work is a relationship
(12:08):
and that's when.
That's when it all appeared,that's how, for me, the
liberation happened.
Dr. Pelè (12:14):
I have to say the idea of the very simple sounding
idea of work as a relationshipis very profound.
I mean, I share your history inthat I was a human resources
executive.
I was vice president of HR at ahealthcare institution and I
saw firsthand that what leadersare thinking is not necessarily
(12:36):
what employees are thinking.
It's like we have, it's likewe're like, these people are
thinking about the world thisway and it's diametrically
opposed to how employees see theworld.
And how can you really doanything together if you can't
see the world, the right matrix,if you're using your analogy,
if you're in the wrong bubble,how do you know what to do
(12:59):
together?
So I wonder if maybe we couldbring it down to a level of sort
of you know nuts and bolts foranyone listening.
You know you've written a greatbook.
You know in your book calledUnlocking High Performance, you
have specific strategies.
Maybe you could give us somereal things that people, some
nuggets people can take away.
(13:20):
That would help them view workas a relationship and help their
employees do the same thing.
Jason Lauritsen (13:27):
Yeah, I think.
Well, I mean, when you stepback there's I'll give you my
favorite, most practical toolthat actually I'll give you, two
I'll give you to.
The first one is and this issomething I stumbled into I
started using myself and then Istarted teaching it to others.
And have sense, you know, I'vebeen talking about and teaching
(13:48):
it.
I taught right about in thebook something I call the
relationship test, and this is avery simple thing that people
can use, managers can use whenthey're thinking about how
they're going to show up with anemployee.
So if I have the way it worksis if I'm a manager and I'm
thinking I'm heading into aninteraction with an employee,
let's say maybe I have to.
I have to give them somefeedback and it's going to be
(14:11):
some feedback that maybe they'renot going to be really excited
about hearing.
What you do is.
You take a moment, you stepback and you consider, okay, how
would I?
You know, you probably have aninstinct about how you would
handle that, but you step backand you say, okay, what if?
What if the person on the otherside of this interaction was my
(14:33):
best friend, right person inthe world that I, somebody I
really care about that.
I would never want to harmtheir relationship, and who I
know would tell me the truth,probably if I did, and you put
that person on the other sideand you just think through, if I
had to do the same thing withthat person, how would I do it?
Would it change the approachthat I'm about to use with this
(14:56):
employee?
And, and as I think about youknow, and so I actually the
easier way is to say, if Iapproached it the same way with
that person as I'm about toapproach it with the employee,
how would that go right?
If it would, if it would, youknow, maintain or build the
relationship.
You're probably fine.
If they would go like what'sthe matter with you and why are
(15:17):
you treating me this way?
Well, then it fails and youshould find a different way to
do it.
So, really, really simple.
So just put somebody, putsomebody that you really care
for on the other side, test it.
Just.
That's the easiest way torelationship.
Test it super practical, takes510 minutes, works in every
situation.
(15:38):
You know, if you're going tohave a team meeting to talk
about something that has somereal gravity to it, just imagine
, like, what if this was afamily meeting, or what if it
was a group of my friends?
How would I set the context?
How would I whateverrelationship test?
Yeah, that's number one.
The second thing I would say isthat that is profoundly
(15:59):
important and this is and Iwould guess that you and I share
this I would would have thesame type of advice, but for
years.
When organizations or leadersask me you know what?
What can we do practically?
What can we do to improveengagement, and without you know
?
The first question I would askthem is do you require managers
(16:23):
to have regularly scheduled oneon one conversations with their
people?
Because if the answer to thatis no, then it's like you don't
need to pay me anything else.
Go do that.
Your engagement will improve,because the reality is and I
mean even poor quality timetogether is better than no time
(16:49):
together.
I mean, this is you know.
I tell a story often about mydaughter when she was seven
years old.
Never forget this she taught meone of the most important
lessons of my life and of mybusiness is I was working on.
I think I was working on.
I was gonna write something IfI was when.
Like you, remember when FastCompany had love as the killer
app was kind of the headline allover the place.
(17:09):
So I was thinking about loveand the role of it, work,
whatever.
And so one day my daughter waswalking through she was seven at
the time and I'm like.
I said hey.
Bailey said how do you know ifsomebody loves you?
And she looked at me for aminute.
She thought she said number one, she goes.
She said they give me lots ofhugs and kisses, which is not HR
(17:33):
approved advice.
So that's scratch that Greatfor seven year olds and their
dad, but not for anybody else.
The second thing she said is thelesson I've never forgotten.
She just said very simply, theyspend time with me.
So you know, what struck me wasthat time is the currency of
(17:55):
relationships.
And so, organizationally, thisis really complicating, right?
Because as we're super busy andthings get busy, we squeeze for
efficiency, everybody's tryingto go faster, managers are very
tempted to cut out that time andthere's like I'm too busy to
make, like I've got 10 directreports.
How am I supposed to spend timewith each of them?
And I guess my response isalways at what cost are you not
(18:20):
spending time with them?
Because if you want to have arelationship with them, if you
want them to be engaged, if youwant them to perform that,
one-on-one conversation is themost important thing you can do,
and if you should have a way ora structure, an agenda, give
(18:40):
them an agenda to use.
But if even you don't have anagenda, just meet with people
and ask them this question whatis the most important thing we
need to talk about today?
That's it.
You ask that question.
Spend a half hour with thepeople on your team.
Engagement will increase,loyalty will increase, you'll
get better relationships, betterreturns.
(19:02):
It is really simple, but yougot to do the things that matter
.
Dr. Pelè (19:08):
Jason, I have to tell you that is a masterclass.
I mean, you have literallygiven away the farm.
I mean anyone you know.
Sometimes you hear that milliondollar idea and don't recognize
it.
This is one of them, and I'lltell you why, not to repeat what
you've said, but just to showyou how it so connects with me.
And I think that this is gonnabe similar for anyone listening.
(19:29):
Number one the relationship test.
That is so powerful for mebecause most of us look at the
world through our own hiddenbiases, meaning we have our
biases and we don't know thatthose biases are, you know,
guiding what we see.
That's the lens through whichwe see the world.
But when you force yourself totake those glasses off and put
(19:50):
that person or people in thecontext of if this was my best
friend, as you say, or, you know, through different glasses, all
of a sudden everything'sdifferent.
You're like, yeah, I wouldn'thave said that, would I?
I wouldn't have done this to mybest friend.
You know, that's just.
It's such a simple but powerfultest.
I love that.
And then the second one isreally personal to me, for
anyone, any father you talkedabout your father, your daughter
(20:12):
, for any father or mother, Isuppose, who has left you know a
relationship and you have an exand you're divorced and
therefore your child is nolonger spending time with you.
Anyone in that situation willtell you exactly what you just
said, which is time.
Time is the currency ofrelationships.
(20:35):
I mean, I can't tell you look,I got goosebumps just thinking
about it.
It's so powerful.
Thank you for sharing that.
I mean, what are your thoughtson my?
I'm sitting at a couch rightnow and you're my.
You're just guiding me, myfriend.
Jason Lauritsen (20:50):
No, listen, that's another, that's an even.
That's perhaps an even more, Ithink, salient or tangible way
to even grab on to it, becauseanybody that's been through that
knows and you really start tounderstand the value of time.
It's time or when you lose Ithink about one of the things
(21:13):
that just brought this intofocus for me.
In the last year had one of mybest friends in the world had a
disease very similar to ALS.
We lost him in the end of lastyear and he and I, though and
the thing is, as I reflected onour time together, like we were
(21:33):
very intentional about seeingeach other and to the point that
, like just a week before hedied, we had gotten together and
sat and talked and caught upand like that we invested time
and because of that, like Iregret not having the time with
(21:53):
him going forward, but I am sograteful that we invested that.
That's where relationshipshappen and we missed that.
Like we missed that.
When we start to understand andkind of the headline for me is
lead with relationship, when youstart putting relationship
first, you start understandingthings like, if I just invest
time in my people, so many otherthings, all this nonsense we
(22:18):
get distracted by at work and weget around the axle about how
do I, how do I give betterfeedback?
It's like, well, if you had abetter relationship with that
person, the way you give thefeedback wouldn't be as
important, because you wouldhave more trust and you would
have that bond.
And so relationship changeseverything, and so that's at the
(22:41):
heart of it.
Dr. Pelè (22:42):
It truly is, and I wonder what your viewpoint is on
the connection between theseintangibles like engagement,
like happiness, profitablehappiness in my case, these
intangibles that are really atthe core of what employees,
where they live, what they careabout, versus what leaders care
(23:03):
about, which is the bottom lineresults of an organization.
Give me some sales results, allof that stuff.
How do you bring those together?
How do you bring profitablehappiness?
How do you unlock profitablehappiness to create high
performance?
Jason Lauritsen (23:17):
Well, so I think there's a couple of things
Like in the way that I thinkabout all of this.
I think happiness is always areally that's a loaded word for
a lot of people, right?
Especially when?
Dr. Pelè (23:28):
you're talking about work.
Jason Lauritsen (23:31):
And I have that time said I would love my
employees to be happy, butthere's times where it's a
luxury, where they might not behappy all the time.
But what I really really wantis I want them to thrive.
That's at the end of the day.
I want them to be thriving atwork, I want them to be thriving
in their personal life, andthriving just means they're sort
of maximizing on, they're sortof moving in the direction of
(23:54):
the things that matter the mostto them, right?
And so the way that works forme is so, first off, the way I
define engagement.
Engagement's kind of at theheart of things.
So this worked for me.
The way I define engagement isthe degree to which an employee
is willing and able to performup to their potential at work.
(24:15):
So it's a willingness, which istheir decision, a commitment,
and the ability, which is theyhave the stuff they need to
perform at the level they'recapable of, or at least close to
that potential at that giventime.
So that's the output that we'relooking at.
To me, that is that's theprofitable.
Happiness is, if we can getengagement, then we get this
(24:37):
performance.
But in order to get thewillingness, there's three
variables, and so this is how Iteach engagement to leaders that
I learned over the years, likeengagement is this mystical
thing?
Leaders are like well, I knowit's important, I don't really
understand what it is.
I'm like it's simple, threevariables, and one of the
variables until recently washidden.
(24:58):
People didn't realize it wasthere Three variables.
The first one is satisfaction.
So that's the degree to whichmy experience of work, how my
experience of work, compareswith my expectations.
So that's what we measure insurveys and all that is like how
does what's happening to mecompared with what I expected or
hoped would happen?
(25:18):
Satisfaction.
The second is drive, which isdo I understand what we need to
get done and am I motivated todo that?
So that is drive.
That's where a lot of ourperformance management stuff
comes in, so a lot of work thathappens there.
The third variable, which isvital, is well-being, because
(25:40):
well-being is essentially it's aperformance capacity issue, and
so the degree to which I amwell affects what I even have to
offer and well-being.
That's true in any context.
And so this is really.
I call it the engagementequation.
You could call it a performanceequation for anything right
Well-being times, satisfaction,times, drive equals performance
(26:03):
outcomes, and so that's whereall of this matters.
And, inside of all of thesethings, the power of
relationship and connection thisis what makes it so powerful is
that when you buildrelationship, when you have
strong connection, it positivelyamplifies all of those
variables.
(26:23):
And, by the way, the importantthing about this is I put this
in a thing called the engagementequation is how I teach it.
So it's well-being, times,satisfaction, times, drive
equals engagement, and theimportant thing in that is that
if any one of those threevariables is diminished, it
zeros out the whole equation.
Yeah Right, so if my well-beingis in the dumpster, it doesn't
(26:46):
matter.
If you have world-classengagement practices or you have
the best performance managementin the world, I show up to work
and I've only got 10% to giveyou.
You only get in 10%.
That's if everything's perfect.
But relationships andconnection lifts all boats.
(27:06):
It's like putting a littleturbo charger on all three of
those variables.
That's how it ties together, atleast in my mind.
Dr. Pelè (27:16):
Not only in your mind.
I'm sold.
I'm literally like the choiryou're preaching to.
I love it.
I'll tell you one thing, infact, that I really like about
what you just did here is youstarted by defining things a
little bit better than what mostof us understand.
For example, you're verycorrect Most people don't
understand what happiness is.
They see it as this frivoloussort of hey, I feel good today,
(27:40):
or we got ping pong tables inthe foyer or something like that
.
And the truth is well, ofcourse, that's called hedonic
happiness.
The truth is, we're talkingabout eudaimonic happiness,
which is more closely related toengagement and focus and all
the things you've describedsatisfaction, for example.
So I think just defining thingsbetter and your engagement
(28:04):
formula and definition, it helpspeople understand things.
When you start, you take themback to definitions.
I think that's so powerful.
Jason.
What are you excited aboutright now?
What are you sharing with theworld and how can people get a
hold of you to be connected withthis, with whatever you're
sharing right now?
Jason Lauritsen (28:22):
Well, I mean I think well, I'll tell you what's
coming up that I'm excitedabout is so about, I don't know.
Not too long ago, a month ortwo ago, I had this sort of as I
am prone to do.
I've seen things coming acrossmy radar and I was seeing a lot
(28:46):
of nonsense about the battlesthat are waging over return to
office and hybrid work andremote work and what works and
what doesn't, and seeing ElonMusk and all of his genius
telling us that remote work isnonsense and all these silly
things and it's like, and so Iwas getting irritated about it.
(29:08):
And the media, of course, lovesthe clickbait, and so all the
articles are kind of likeclickbaity and they're very
polarizing.
And so I was like I knowthere's more to this story.
I know there is, but I want totalk to some people.
And so I threw out aninvitation to the folks on my
email list and asked them hey,has anybody else bothered by
this?
(29:28):
Would you like to have aconversation?
I put an open call for just a30-minute meeting and I had over
50 people book time in two days.
Like all the times I had weregone, and I was like, ok, well,
apparently people are feelingtension around this, and so I
spent a month doing theseconversations.
Downside is I got nothing elsedone.
(29:51):
The upside is I got a lot ofreally great information, and
I'm going to be unpacking what Ilearned through that and, I
think, trying to paint a morenuanced and accurate picture of
what's actually happening andwhat we need to be doing if we
want to really thrive.
I think we're in the secondinning of a nine inning ballgame
when it comes to the evolutionof work post-pandemic and
(30:14):
post-disruption to work and soI'm excited about that.
So that's what's coming overthe next several months.
If you want to be in on that,you can find me at my website,
jasonlortzencom, as we do, as wehave to do.
If you visit my website, you'regoing to get assaulted by
pop-ups and all kinds of ways.
You can sign up for mynewsletter.
You can just email me, jason,at JasonLortzencom.
(30:37):
You can hit me up as you did onLinkedIn.
I'm very responsive there.
If you can spell my last name,you can find me.
If you can't, then I'm terribleat the job.
Dr. Pelè (30:48):
It's got an E in it, Lorettson.
Jason Lauritsen (30:53):
Yes, L-A-U-R-I-T-S-E-N.
Dr. Pelè (30:55):
It's there, E-N.
Yes, oh, my goodness, Jason, Ihave really enjoyed learning
from you, talking about you andeven experiencing this last
thing you talked about, which isyou taking the red pill,
because you're opening up thewillingness for people to
understand maybe some truthsthat are you know.
You're just helping people seethe light.
(31:17):
That's the matrix thing, evenin what you're doing today.
That's powerful.
If people want to connect withyou, LinkedIn is obviously the
place that I'll share, but doyou have any other places that
you'd like people to go?
Find you on social media?
LinkedIn is the primary placewhere I like to connect with
people, so go to.
Jason Lauritsen (31:34):
LinkedIn.
That's where I post the most.
That's where you'll see themost of me.
Dr. Pelè (31:38):
All right.
Well, jason, thank you so much.
I've learned so much and Ireally enjoy talking with you.
It's been great to have you asa guest on Profitable Happiness.
Thank you.
Jason Lauritsen (31:46):
Thank you.
Dr. Pelè (31:49):
Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
For more episodes, visitDrPalletcom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
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