July 25, 2023 • 26 mins
Ever wondered about the links between engaged employees, positive employee experiences, and organizational performance?
Well, tune in as we unravel this intriguing concept with our special guest, Christi Gilhoi, an Employee Experience Executive who designs data-responsive ‘people-first’ programs to ensure all employees feel valued, connected, empowered, and supported.
Christi enlightens us by emphasizing the crucial difference between employee engagement and experience, highlighting the significance of a holistic approach that factors in joy, meaningful experiences, and purpose.
To connect with Christi online, visit:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christi-gilhoi/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Pelè (00:00):
Hello happy people.
Welcome to the ProfitableHappiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr Pelèwith the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
Today, it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Christi Gilhoi,
who is an employee experienceexecutive.
She is someone who has done itall, from designing the data
(00:24):
responsive people first programsat huge companies like Qualcomm
, and even now in the work thatshe's doing on her own as a
consultant.
But there's one thing thatChristi has shared with me that
has me all giggly.
As you can see, Christi is amusician.
She's a bass player, she's amusician and singer, and her
(00:44):
family is all about music.
So I'm so excited to hear howyou fuse the worlds of music and
, of course, employee experienceand engagement and so on.
Christi, how are you doingtoday?
Christi Gilhoi (00:56):
I'm great, Dr Palay.
Thanks for having me excited tobe here and excited to share
stories of engagement andexperience and music and
happiness.
Yeah, I'm thrilled.
Dr. Pelè (01:06):
Oh, awesome.
And you know what, since you'vealready kind of gone to that
topic of happiness andengagement and so on, you know,
tell us what this is about.
You know, so many people inorganizations, especially
leaders, are focused on makingsure that there is the bottom
line we got the profits, we gotthe sales, we got the results,
all these things coming in andthen it seems like you're
(01:28):
proposing there's this thingcalled employee happiness and
engagement.
What is that all about?
Christi Gilhoi (01:35):
Yeah, I mean I've always seen especially as a
creative and a storyteller andsomeone who comes from a world
where we're looking to makethings and create things and
feel purpose and feel connectionwith people.
And so in the workplace I seethis all the time that we need
to think about the entireemployee.
Who are they outside of work?
What drives them?
What gets them excited?
(01:55):
How can we support them?
How can we delight employeeswho work for us?
Because if they feel delightedand connected, if they feel like
they have a purpose, if theyfeel like their work is
meaningful, they will do betterfor the bottom line.
They'll be better workers,They'll stay with the company
longer, They'll do discretionarywork after hours because
(02:16):
they're filled up and they'renot depleted.
So I love the space of employeeengagement, employee experience.
How can we find those frictionpoints in the employee life
cycle, those moments wherepeople feel like it's not
working for them and make itbetter, make a better process,
or have an inflection pointwhere they have an opportunity
for coaching or just call themout for great work?
(02:38):
So just really thinking acrossthat full journey from a
candidate to being someone whois an alumni, who's talking
about how great the company ishow can we make that better
along the way?
And that's what really gets meup in the morning and drives me
and, yeah, I'm excited aboutemployees.
Employees are my customers.
Dr. Pelè (02:57):
I love that and it's interesting that you are talking
about the question of how canwe make that better.
For 30 years, I think, galluphas had a poll that says what?
70% disengagement inorganizations meaning some are
engaged 30% but most people arejust making things not happen.
And you wonder why is it thatafter 30 years of measuring
(03:18):
things, that particular metric70% disengaged is still
happening, like why is thisstill a problem?
Tell us a little bit about theidea of engagement versus the
idea of experience, because Ithink there's a distinction and
you are an expert in thatdistinction.
So give us a sense of whatthose two things are and how can
(03:39):
we make them better.
Christi Gilhoi (03:41):
Yeah, I think, as we look at survey and data as
a company, from the companylevel, we're trying to figure
out how engaged are ouremployees?
What are the metrics?
Do they feel good about worklife balance?
Do they feel like they havepurpose?
Do they feel connected to theirmanager?
So engagement is really whatthe company wants.
We want engaged employees sothat we're not on the wrong side
of that gallop pool.
(04:02):
But employee experience isreally what's happening to me as
Christy, what's happening to meas Dr Pillay?
How am I feeling every day whenI come to work?
And so if I was sold, hey, thisis a big, innovative company
where you can change the world.
And then I come in and sit in acubicle farm and I have no
friends and my manager doesn'tcheck in with me and I don't
(04:23):
feel like my family isbenefiting from all of that time
away.
That engagement is going todrop because of my experience.
So I really like to think aboutengagement as the company lens
and experiences, that personalexperience that every employee
has on their small team, intheir company and in the work
that they do.
Dr. Pelè (04:44):
I have to say that's a masterclass definition.
It's probably the easiest, bestdefinition I've seen Like
you've made it crystal clear.
You know one is coming from theemployer and one is coming from
the employee and they aredifferent in that way and it's
important to understand the two.
You know, Christy, I'minterested in your background.
Tell us a little bit about yourstory, like what got you to be
(05:06):
the employee experience andengagement expert that you are
today.
Christi Gilhoi (05:11):
Well, it's a winding path, as many people
have.
I like to call myself sort ofthe Willy Wonka.
I like to help bring joy aspeople come into whatever
environment they're in.
But I actually started aneducation.
I worked for the University ofCalifornia for 10 years and I
worked with internationalstudents, international faculty
and really smart people who weregetting ready to go into the
(05:31):
workforce.
So I was really fortunate tosee how that early incubation
happens.
And all of them, as students,wanted, they wanted music,
concerts, they wanted ways toconnect with each other, they
wanted interesting events andspeakers and thought provoking
experiences in their education.
And then as they got into theworkforce, that changed and it
(05:54):
was just a grind.
So when I came into theworkforce I saw that they were
saying, well, we have free foodor we have pool tables or
something like that, but that'snot the deep kind of meaningful
happiness that people arelooking for.
They're looking for can yousupport me when I become a
parent?
Do you understand that I needto go out and take a run every
(06:17):
day?
Can you help me develop skillsthat are important?
Do you care about me as aperson?
And so I think I hit the hightech career in employee
engagement right when it wasmoving from kind of a perks and
benefits and fun thing, and Ithink I love to have fun.
But it's not just about fun.
It's about deep meaning andpurpose and feeling valued and
(06:40):
feeling seen and heard andrecognized, and that's how I
moved into that field.
And then I've been working inhigh tech for the last 12 years
trying to put those things intopractice, whether it's benefits
or recognition programs or funcontests or campaigns or
opportunities for growth orcourses in L&D to really support
(07:01):
that mission.
Dr. Pelè (07:03):
I have to say you and I might be brother and sister
from another mother, because youhave just explained another
great difference that so manypeople need to hear, which is
the difference between sort ofthe pleasure seeking fun
happiness, or hedonic happinessas we like to call it, and the
more meaningful, engagement,focused happiness, called
eudaimonic happiness, rightwhich, by the way, I renamed
(07:26):
that to profitable happiness.
That's what this is all about?
Christi Gilhoi (07:29):
Oh, very nice yeah.
Dr. Pelè (07:31):
So the eudaimonic happiness is really a thing and
a lot of people need to hearthat there is that difference
which you've just called out acouple of times right now.
But before we go into thequestion of how this all plays
out and how we solve some ofthese challenges when you lack
happiness and you lackengagement and so on, how did
you bring music into the worldof work?
Your music, your fun love, thething that you do with your
(07:54):
family?
How did that influence you workfor you.
How did music come into playfor you?
Christi Gilhoi (08:00):
Oh, that's such a great question.
I mean I think it's always withme, dr Poulet it's like I know
what it's like to be in thatflow space.
So you pick up a guitar andmaybe you don't understand it
and then you learn a little andyou get feedback and you get
better, and you learn some moreand you get better, then maybe
you start singing and theneventually, hopefully, you get
the nerves up to be on stage.
So I know what that feels likeas a creative and as a musician
(08:24):
and so part of it is transposingthat into the workplace in
terms of how you grow people andhave them expand and give them
feedback and have them succeed.
But partly I also brought musica lot into the companies.
So I would hire bands and wewould do choreographed dances
and we would have clubs wherepeople could get together and
(08:45):
jam after work.
At Qualcomm in North Carolinawe had a room where people had a
music club and they would playrock and roll after work every
day.
So and I have to say, I haveone admission and I did abuse my
job a little bit once and wewere looking for bands for our
summer concert programs and Idid book my band Grotus, but we
(09:07):
did play too.
I think it's important to showthose hobbies and those things
that are joyful right back tothat happiness piece and have
people see the whole, all of you, so that brought it into
programs brought it into thingsthat we funded actually, and
then did a little singing myselfon the side, which was fun.
Dr. Pelè (09:29):
Well, I have to tell you that you and I are probably
the people who may not havebecome Michael Jackson or
Madonna.
Ok, so we're like gosh Darnit,we're going to take it to work.
So it's all good.
And I have to say, if I learnanything from music, it's really
the idea of the practice ofmusic, which is something that's
(09:49):
so important to you.
You understand that people haveto actually practice and
struggle to build that musclememory, not just with music, but
really with anything, and thatincludes employee engagement and
employee experience and all thethings that involve empowering
people in the culture of anorganization.
(10:09):
Tell us what that link is foryou the idea of, as you say,
building that, the muscle ofgood leadership and good
employees and all that goodstuff.
How do you do that?
Christi Gilhoi (10:20):
Well, I think in guitar you have to do the
scales Not always the most fun,but you need to know the scales.
You need to know thosefundamental pieces to make this
song, and I think what I've seenvery successfully in terms of
manager enablement and trainingis that some managers try to
come on stage and just singwithout knowing the scale or
(10:43):
having any practice, and so Ithink it's just about getting
some framework and even somescripts.
I see you, I see what you did.
Here's why it was important,here's how it made me feel and
here's how it connects to thecompany.
If you can codify that in termsof how managers are starting to
interact with their team, Ithink that that becomes the
(11:06):
scale in which you buildhigh-performing teams.
And then I think there's also alittle peer pressure.
You get the battle of the bandsgoing, where one manager is
doing really well and peoplewant to know what's her secret
sauce.
Well, bring her on, have hertalk about how she manages her
team, how she motivates heremployees, what she does to
(11:28):
really build the culture of anorganization, and then see if
that can start to bring newmanagers along, to let them know
that this is how we manage here.
This is how we build culturehere.
So really it's behavioral.
It's that behavior and thatmuscle to make sure that you're
putting people first instead ofthe workforce, because if you
(11:50):
take care of the people, you'llget the business results.
And I do think sometimesgenerationally as those of us
who came up as baby boomers andGen Xers, I think sometimes we
fall back on some of those oldhabits.
It should just be good enoughto have a good job and get a
paycheck, but I think thelessons that the millennials and
(12:10):
the Gen Z have taught us isit's also really important to
have balance and have constantfeedback and recognition and
crowdsourcing and community, andI think we need to work across
those generations.
To translate a little bit aboutthis isn't about giving
everybody trophies, but it'sabout seeing good work,
responding and then connectingthat to who you are and who I am
(12:31):
as a person.
Dr. Pelè (12:32):
Oh my goodness, I'm just sitting here going.
Oh my goodness, because whatyou're saying in fact I think
that's a keynote speech becausecan you imagine?
You're in front of an audienceand you're letting them know
listen, when you see a greatmusician, you might think this
is magic.
It's not.
It's a framework that they havelabored over for years
(12:53):
repetitions, struggling overthese scales.
And guess what?
If you do that too, if you havea framework and then you get
really good at that framework,that framework can be what
delivers great employeeexperience, great employee
engagement and so on and soforth.
I just love the way youposition that.
And I have to say one morething.
I'm going to be selfish aboutthis.
I'm very proud of you becauseguess what?
(13:14):
You and I probably went to theUniversity of Minnesota at the
same time.
Where did you go?
Golden Gophers?
I am totally.
I got my bachelor's inarchitecture from the U of M and
you got your bachelor of arts,and we won't go into when this
all happened.
We'll leave that for people towonder.
Christi Gilhoi (13:32):
Oh, we definitely need to talk about
those cold winters.
It's good for practicing musicwhen you're stuck in doors all
winter.
Dr. Pelè (13:40):
That's why I'm in Texas and you're in San Diego,
right?
So I just really love just thejuxtaposition of music and the
practice of music and possiblythe practice of frameworks that
deliver the success that you arelooking for today.
Tell us a little bit more abouthow a person might build some
(14:01):
of these, as you say, muscles.
How do you get a culture tohave more engaged people or
people who feel that they arehaving a positive experience?
How do we go from here to there?
How do we get that donetangibly?
Christi Gilhoi (14:17):
It's a great question.
I think it has to have a lot ofmodalities, and so where I've
seen it be the most successfulis where you can define the
culture.
How do we want to treat eachother, how do we want to behave?
You can name those behaviorsand those cultures.
Those pillars are buildingblocks of culture, and then how
do you continually reinforcethem?
(14:37):
So if you say that we are atransparent culture or a culture
of learning, well, are youtelling stories that are
transparent to support that?
And are you a culture oflearning?
Are you giving people time awayto take some courses and to
really learn and to take somecreative time?
So I think it's really aboutbuilding the culture at that
(14:58):
level and then rewarding peoplewho demonstrate those behaviors.
So if people are cultureleaders, if they are
demonstrating the culture tocall that out, what gets
recognized gets repeated.
My friend, dr Bob Nelson alwayssays that.
So really trying to steer awayfrom maybe some of the negative
and the detractors becausethey're in every company, the
(15:19):
EORs and really focus on thosecore leaders that are doing it
right, amplify them, talk tothem, find out what their secret
sauce is and then start to putit into either videos or
soundbites or scripts orlearning courses so that other
people can take from thatlearning, and then it becomes
kind of a cultural feedback loop.
Dr. Pelè (15:41):
That's so awesome, and you mentioned our friend, bob
Nelson.
Dr Bob, I've done some workwith him and just an awesome guy
.
He's a great storyteller, asyou are.
And on the topic of stories, doyou have any favorite stories
that you like to share?
You don't have to mention thename of the company or anything,
(16:03):
but stories that talk aboutwhat it looks like when a
culture is being developed inthe right direction, when
employees are feeling like thisis a place they want to be and
it's beyond just the ping-pongtable in the foyer.
It's a real, deep, meaningfulhappiness and engagement.
What are your favorite storiesabout how that comes to be in
the world?
Christi Gilhoi (16:25):
Yeah, I think one of the things that was
really, really fun was doing ata big company, tech company
doing a lot of focus groups andmeeting with those frontline
engineers, those 23 year oldswho are a brand new and career
and talking about what wouldmake their work life meaningful.
And some of them said there weresuch simple things.
(16:48):
If only my VP, my vice president, could see the work I'm doing,
if only he or she would call meor stop by my office or, as we
had an online program put athumbs up on something that I
did, if I could be seen, thatwould be so impactful to me.
So I met with them on one side.
Then I went to the C-suite andthose VP's and I said to them
(17:10):
you know, you really need towalk around more and talk to
people about what they're doingand engage and give people
recognition.
And they said, oh, that's notthat, you know, that's not that
meaningful.
And then I started to tell thestory about this is this is what
your frontline engineers say,this is what your data says,
this is what people are sayingwould change their feeling about
(17:30):
work.
And so really being thetranslator between those two
groups, because those high-endbusiness leaders are focused on
running the business and they'refocused on the bottom line and
they're focused on the marketand they don't always understand
how much power that muscle,that daily just doing your
scales, every day, five minutesif they would call someone or
(17:50):
walk around or say something orshout out to someone can be so
impactful with early careerprofessionals.
Dr. Pelè (17:59):
Wow, the idea of a daily practice.
How amazing is that?
Like, isn't that a crazy thing?
Why don't we?
Let's have a daily practiceabout something good.
Let's do small things and thesmall things will somehow become
big.
You know, I always marvel at howsuch simple wisdom is sometimes
lost on some of the mostsuccessful people in the world.
(18:19):
In the world of work, it's likejust make some people around
you happy and maybe everythingworks right.
But you're right, if you couldencourage people and you're the
translator to do that, thingsjust happen and they're
successful.
I love that story and I thinkthat's something everyone should
sort of remember.
Let me ask you if you were togive people just maybe one.
(18:45):
Let's say you were on a desertisland.
You had one piece of advicethat you needed to give the
world and they said give us thisone piece of advice regarding
employee experience, employeeengagement and the business
results that must accompanyemployee experience and
engagement.
What would that one big pieceof advice be?
And then we'll have to makesure they can make it a daily
(19:06):
practice down the road.
Christi Gilhoi (19:10):
I think it would be in the area of multiplier
effect.
You, Dr.
Pelè, can talk to people and dopodcasts.
I, Christi, can meet withpeople, but I'm limited right,
I'm limited but bandwidth ormaybe if there's a presentation.
So the most successful programsI have had have involved a
group of ambassadors or culturebearers or a group of other
(19:31):
people who have that same energyand that same love.
So if you can find those peoplein an organization, they could
be a security guard, they couldbe an engineer, they could be a
VP Really weaving that networkand finding those hundred people
in a 10,000 person company whocan be your ambassadors and
empowering them.
(19:52):
It's like that multiplier effect.
So I can affect those hundredpeople and those hundred people
can affect those 10,000.
So I've had great experience inmy last two companies of really
nurturing people who have thatnatural ability to bring that
happiness and joy to people andtrying to put that into actual
programs where they arerecognizing people and maybe
(20:13):
they're in Japan or maybethey're in Sweden, so you also
get that international impactwhere it's much harder to do
that from San Diego.
So I think intentionallybuilding that kind of positive
army of engagement folks canreally help with your programs
and strategy.
Dr. Pelè (20:30):
I think, that's just genius because I mean, come on,
it's one thing, as you said,it's one thing for you and I to
talk about this, but how aboutwe motivate and inspire so many
other people to be our voice onthis topic and, I think,
shifting a little bit about thequestion of happiness at work
and employees well-being andthings like that?
(20:53):
I wonder, in my experience I'llstart with this in my
experience, a lot of leadersmean well, but they don't get
this very simple thing I thinkyou're talking about.
Is there a way to help peopleunderstand the importance of
employee happiness?
I mean, look, I'll tell you, Ionce worked for a leader.
(21:14):
She said to me one day hey,listen, all this emotional stuff
you're talking about, dr Pillai, we don't need that here.
We just want people to get thisstuff done.
And I'm just wondering someonelike you might just know a good
way to help leaders connect atthis level.
What would you share about that?
Christi Gilhoi (21:35):
Two things, I think.
One you need someone leadingthe charge who's totally
determined and totally positive.
It's hard work trying to bringhappiness and satisfaction to an
employee base, so you have tohave a true believer.
So your energy is incredible.
I brought in Dr Bob and hadgreat ambassadors.
But you have to be a truebeliever If whoever's leading
(21:56):
the charge needs to reallybelieve that.
I would often say I'm putting onmy Iron man suit when I went
into some of those meetingsbecause a lot of people don't
believe it.
You've got a lot of detractorsand a lot of skepticism.
So determination, positivity,and then it's interesting
because one of the things, thestories I've been able to tell,
is a lot of time these leaderswho are further along in their
(22:18):
career have forgotten what it'slike to be 23, 25, new company
and they don't think it'simportant, like you said.
But if you tie it back,sometimes their kids or their
niece or their nephew arestruggling with this in their
life.
If you can get that personalstory, they're like oh, I get it
.
That's what my son or daughteror niece or nephew talk about.
Making it more personal and Ithink, seeing people as
(22:43):
individual humans versus sort ofthe employees right and seeing
them as having complex selvesand trying to address some of
the needs that we all have ascomplex humans.
Dr. Pelè (22:55):
Oh, that is just so true, and I think what you're
really saying is some empathy isrequired.
You know, leaders need torecognize that, yes, you're
focused this way on gettingthese results, but these
employees also kind of want tofeel a certain way, and it's
when those two sometimesopposing approaches come
(23:16):
together that we get the bestorganizations.
Christy, I want to ask you whatare you excited about right now
?
What are you working on?
What do you want to share andwhere can people find you online
to connect with you?
Christi Gilhoi (23:30):
Sure, I'm excited about putting together
programs for companies that aretrying to figure this out,
trying to crack this nut.
So I'm interested in helpingpeople put together recognition
programs where great work iscalled out.
I'm interested in puttingtogether successful onboarding
programs where people feel likewhen they come on board they
understand the culture and wherethey're working and they feel
(23:51):
fired up.
I'm interested in helpingcompanies talk about their
culture and tell the stories andhave the right language and
have that one levity, part ofthat stickiness of a company.
So doing a lot of consulting inthat area for small companies
and also for large institutionswhere I can come in and really
help them solve a problem Ithink post-pandemic.
(24:13):
We're all trying to figure itout.
Nobody has all the exactanswers and I think it's a great
time to experiment, to trythings, and so as a consultant
it's easy for me to come in, trysomething, see if it works and
then build on that, measure thedata and then see where to go
from there.
So confine me.
I'm linked in Christie Guilfoyand happy to share best
(24:34):
practices, stories, case studies, examples etc to help anyone
out there who's trying to figureout the next steps for their
employment strategy.
Dr. Pelè (24:45):
Quick question you betcha, yeah sure, I was going
to say how many Minnesota thingscan we talk into this
conversation there?
There was three right thereUftah, you betcha, and yeah sure
.
Christi Gilhoi (25:00):
That's amazing.
Dr. Pelè (25:01):
Yeah, so, Christie, I just have to say that, when it
comes to the idea of building apractice, as you said, best
practices, building thesemuscles, these habits of
employees getting what they wantand leaders also getting what
they want.
I want to wish you the verybest in everything you do and
thank you for bringing just sucha lively viewpoint about the
(25:22):
whole thing to the ProfitableHappiness Podcast.
I really appreciate meeting you.
Christi Gilhoi (25:27):
Oh, dr Pillay, I mean you know, when you come
away from something where youfeel energized and excited, that
it's been a good interaction.
So, thank you, it's been lovelyto see you and your audience
and I'd love to talk abouthappiness and employees.
That's my favorite thing.
Dr. Pelè (25:43):
Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
For more episodes, visitdrpillaycom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
Hello happy people.
Welcome to the ProfitableHappiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr Pelèwith the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
Today, it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Christi Gilhoi,
who is an employee experienceexecutive.
She is someone who has done itall, from designing the data
(00:24):
responsive people first programsat huge companies like Qualcomm
, and even now in the work thatshe's doing on her own as a
consultant.
But there's one thing thatChristi has shared with me that
has me all giggly.
As you can see, Christi is amusician.
She's a bass player, she's amusician and singer, and her
(00:44):
family is all about music.
So I'm so excited to hear howyou fuse the worlds of music and
, of course, employee experienceand engagement and so on.
Christi, how are you doingtoday?
Christi Gilhoi (00:56):
I'm great, Dr Palay.
Thanks for having me excited tobe here and excited to share
stories of engagement andexperience and music and
happiness.
Yeah, I'm thrilled.
Dr. Pelè (01:06):
Oh, awesome.
And you know what, since you'vealready kind of gone to that
topic of happiness andengagement and so on, you know,
tell us what this is about.
You know, so many people inorganizations, especially
leaders, are focused on makingsure that there is the bottom
line we got the profits, we gotthe sales, we got the results,
all these things coming in andthen it seems like you're
(01:28):
proposing there's this thingcalled employee happiness and
engagement.
What is that all about?
Christi Gilhoi (01:35):
Yeah, I mean I've always seen especially as a
creative and a storyteller andsomeone who comes from a world
where we're looking to makethings and create things and
feel purpose and feel connectionwith people.
And so in the workplace I seethis all the time that we need
to think about the entireemployee.
Who are they outside of work?
What drives them?
What gets them excited?
(01:55):
How can we support them?
How can we delight employeeswho work for us?
Because if they feel delightedand connected, if they feel like
they have a purpose, if theyfeel like their work is
meaningful, they will do betterfor the bottom line.
They'll be better workers,They'll stay with the company
longer, They'll do discretionarywork after hours because
(02:16):
they're filled up and they'renot depleted.
So I love the space of employeeengagement, employee experience.
How can we find those frictionpoints in the employee life
cycle, those moments wherepeople feel like it's not
working for them and make itbetter, make a better process,
or have an inflection pointwhere they have an opportunity
for coaching or just call themout for great work?
(02:38):
So just really thinking acrossthat full journey from a
candidate to being someone whois an alumni, who's talking
about how great the company ishow can we make that better
along the way?
And that's what really gets meup in the morning and drives me
and, yeah, I'm excited aboutemployees.
Employees are my customers.
Dr. Pelè (02:57):
I love that and it's interesting that you are talking
about the question of how canwe make that better.
For 30 years, I think, galluphas had a poll that says what?
70% disengagement inorganizations meaning some are
engaged 30% but most people arejust making things not happen.
And you wonder why is it thatafter 30 years of measuring
(03:18):
things, that particular metric70% disengaged is still
happening, like why is thisstill a problem?
Tell us a little bit about theidea of engagement versus the
idea of experience, because Ithink there's a distinction and
you are an expert in thatdistinction.
So give us a sense of whatthose two things are and how can
(03:39):
we make them better.
Christi Gilhoi (03:41):
Yeah, I think, as we look at survey and data as
a company, from the companylevel, we're trying to figure
out how engaged are ouremployees?
What are the metrics?
Do they feel good about worklife balance?
Do they feel like they havepurpose?
Do they feel connected to theirmanager?
So engagement is really whatthe company wants.
We want engaged employees sothat we're not on the wrong side
of that gallop pool.
(04:02):
But employee experience isreally what's happening to me as
Christy, what's happening to meas Dr Pillay?
How am I feeling every day whenI come to work?
And so if I was sold, hey, thisis a big, innovative company
where you can change the world.
And then I come in and sit in acubicle farm and I have no
friends and my manager doesn'tcheck in with me and I don't
(04:23):
feel like my family isbenefiting from all of that time
away.
That engagement is going todrop because of my experience.
So I really like to think aboutengagement as the company lens
and experiences, that personalexperience that every employee
has on their small team, intheir company and in the work
that they do.
Dr. Pelè (04:44):
I have to say that's a masterclass definition.
It's probably the easiest, bestdefinition I've seen Like
you've made it crystal clear.
You know one is coming from theemployer and one is coming from
the employee and they aredifferent in that way and it's
important to understand the two.
You know, Christy, I'minterested in your background.
Tell us a little bit about yourstory, like what got you to be
(05:06):
the employee experience andengagement expert that you are
today.
Christi Gilhoi (05:11):
Well, it's a winding path, as many people
have.
I like to call myself sort ofthe Willy Wonka.
I like to help bring joy aspeople come into whatever
environment they're in.
But I actually started aneducation.
I worked for the University ofCalifornia for 10 years and I
worked with internationalstudents, international faculty
and really smart people who weregetting ready to go into the
(05:31):
workforce.
So I was really fortunate tosee how that early incubation
happens.
And all of them, as students,wanted, they wanted music,
concerts, they wanted ways toconnect with each other, they
wanted interesting events andspeakers and thought provoking
experiences in their education.
And then as they got into theworkforce, that changed and it
(05:54):
was just a grind.
So when I came into theworkforce I saw that they were
saying, well, we have free foodor we have pool tables or
something like that, but that'snot the deep kind of meaningful
happiness that people arelooking for.
They're looking for can yousupport me when I become a
parent?
Do you understand that I needto go out and take a run every
(06:17):
day?
Can you help me develop skillsthat are important?
Do you care about me as aperson?
And so I think I hit the hightech career in employee
engagement right when it wasmoving from kind of a perks and
benefits and fun thing, and Ithink I love to have fun.
But it's not just about fun.
It's about deep meaning andpurpose and feeling valued and
(06:40):
feeling seen and heard andrecognized, and that's how I
moved into that field.
And then I've been working inhigh tech for the last 12 years
trying to put those things intopractice, whether it's benefits
or recognition programs or funcontests or campaigns or
opportunities for growth orcourses in L&D to really support
(07:01):
that mission.
Dr. Pelè (07:03):
I have to say you and I might be brother and sister
from another mother, because youhave just explained another
great difference that so manypeople need to hear, which is
the difference between sort ofthe pleasure seeking fun
happiness, or hedonic happinessas we like to call it, and the
more meaningful, engagement,focused happiness, called
eudaimonic happiness, rightwhich, by the way, I renamed
(07:26):
that to profitable happiness.
That's what this is all about?
Christi Gilhoi (07:29):
Oh, very nice yeah.
Dr. Pelè (07:31):
So the eudaimonic happiness is really a thing and
a lot of people need to hearthat there is that difference
which you've just called out acouple of times right now.
But before we go into thequestion of how this all plays
out and how we solve some ofthese challenges when you lack
happiness and you lackengagement and so on, how did
you bring music into the worldof work?
Your music, your fun love, thething that you do with your
(07:54):
family?
How did that influence you workfor you.
How did music come into playfor you?
Christi Gilhoi (08:00):
Oh, that's such a great question.
I mean I think it's always withme, dr Poulet it's like I know
what it's like to be in thatflow space.
So you pick up a guitar andmaybe you don't understand it
and then you learn a little andyou get feedback and you get
better, and you learn some moreand you get better, then maybe
you start singing and theneventually, hopefully, you get
the nerves up to be on stage.
So I know what that feels likeas a creative and as a musician
(08:24):
and so part of it is transposingthat into the workplace in
terms of how you grow people andhave them expand and give them
feedback and have them succeed.
But partly I also brought musica lot into the companies.
So I would hire bands and wewould do choreographed dances
and we would have clubs wherepeople could get together and
(08:45):
jam after work.
At Qualcomm in North Carolinawe had a room where people had a
music club and they would playrock and roll after work every
day.
So and I have to say, I haveone admission and I did abuse my
job a little bit once and wewere looking for bands for our
summer concert programs and Idid book my band Grotus, but we
(09:07):
did play too.
I think it's important to showthose hobbies and those things
that are joyful right back tothat happiness piece and have
people see the whole, all of you, so that brought it into
programs brought it into thingsthat we funded actually, and
then did a little singing myselfon the side, which was fun.
Dr. Pelè (09:29):
Well, I have to tell you that you and I are probably
the people who may not havebecome Michael Jackson or
Madonna.
Ok, so we're like gosh Darnit,we're going to take it to work.
So it's all good.
And I have to say, if I learnanything from music, it's really
the idea of the practice ofmusic, which is something that's
(09:49):
so important to you.
You understand that people haveto actually practice and
struggle to build that musclememory, not just with music, but
really with anything, and thatincludes employee engagement and
employee experience and all thethings that involve empowering
people in the culture of anorganization.
(10:09):
Tell us what that link is foryou the idea of, as you say,
building that, the muscle ofgood leadership and good
employees and all that goodstuff.
How do you do that?
Christi Gilhoi (10:20):
Well, I think in guitar you have to do the
scales Not always the most fun,but you need to know the scales.
You need to know thosefundamental pieces to make this
song, and I think what I've seenvery successfully in terms of
manager enablement and trainingis that some managers try to
come on stage and just singwithout knowing the scale or
(10:43):
having any practice, and so Ithink it's just about getting
some framework and even somescripts.
I see you, I see what you did.
Here's why it was important,here's how it made me feel and
here's how it connects to thecompany.
If you can codify that in termsof how managers are starting to
interact with their team, Ithink that that becomes the
(11:06):
scale in which you buildhigh-performing teams.
And then I think there's also alittle peer pressure.
You get the battle of the bandsgoing, where one manager is
doing really well and peoplewant to know what's her secret
sauce.
Well, bring her on, have hertalk about how she manages her
team, how she motivates heremployees, what she does to
(11:28):
really build the culture of anorganization, and then see if
that can start to bring newmanagers along, to let them know
that this is how we manage here.
This is how we build culturehere.
So really it's behavioral.
It's that behavior and thatmuscle to make sure that you're
putting people first instead ofthe workforce, because if you
(11:50):
take care of the people, you'llget the business results.
And I do think sometimesgenerationally as those of us
who came up as baby boomers andGen Xers, I think sometimes we
fall back on some of those oldhabits.
It should just be good enoughto have a good job and get a
paycheck, but I think thelessons that the millennials and
(12:10):
the Gen Z have taught us isit's also really important to
have balance and have constantfeedback and recognition and
crowdsourcing and community, andI think we need to work across
those generations.
To translate a little bit aboutthis isn't about giving
everybody trophies, but it'sabout seeing good work,
responding and then connectingthat to who you are and who I am
(12:31):
as a person.
Dr. Pelè (12:32):
Oh my goodness, I'm just sitting here going.
Oh my goodness, because whatyou're saying in fact I think
that's a keynote speech becausecan you imagine?
You're in front of an audienceand you're letting them know
listen, when you see a greatmusician, you might think this
is magic.
It's not.
It's a framework that they havelabored over for years
(12:53):
repetitions, struggling overthese scales.
And guess what?
If you do that too, if you havea framework and then you get
really good at that framework,that framework can be what
delivers great employeeexperience, great employee
engagement and so on and soforth.
I just love the way youposition that.
And I have to say one morething.
I'm going to be selfish aboutthis.
I'm very proud of you becauseguess what?
(13:14):
You and I probably went to theUniversity of Minnesota at the
same time.
Where did you go?
Golden Gophers?
I am totally.
I got my bachelor's inarchitecture from the U of M and
you got your bachelor of arts,and we won't go into when this
all happened.
We'll leave that for people towonder.
Christi Gilhoi (13:32):
Oh, we definitely need to talk about
those cold winters.
It's good for practicing musicwhen you're stuck in doors all
winter.
Dr. Pelè (13:40):
That's why I'm in Texas and you're in San Diego,
right?
So I just really love just thejuxtaposition of music and the
practice of music and possiblythe practice of frameworks that
deliver the success that you arelooking for today.
Tell us a little bit more abouthow a person might build some
(14:01):
of these, as you say, muscles.
How do you get a culture tohave more engaged people or
people who feel that they arehaving a positive experience?
How do we go from here to there?
How do we get that donetangibly?
Christi Gilhoi (14:17):
It's a great question.
I think it has to have a lot ofmodalities, and so where I've
seen it be the most successfulis where you can define the
culture.
How do we want to treat eachother, how do we want to behave?
You can name those behaviorsand those cultures.
Those pillars are buildingblocks of culture, and then how
do you continually reinforcethem?
(14:37):
So if you say that we are atransparent culture or a culture
of learning, well, are youtelling stories that are
transparent to support that?
And are you a culture oflearning?
Are you giving people time awayto take some courses and to
really learn and to take somecreative time?
So I think it's really aboutbuilding the culture at that
(14:58):
level and then rewarding peoplewho demonstrate those behaviors.
So if people are cultureleaders, if they are
demonstrating the culture tocall that out, what gets
recognized gets repeated.
My friend, dr Bob Nelson alwayssays that.
So really trying to steer awayfrom maybe some of the negative
and the detractors becausethey're in every company, the
(15:19):
EORs and really focus on thosecore leaders that are doing it
right, amplify them, talk tothem, find out what their secret
sauce is and then start to putit into either videos or
soundbites or scripts orlearning courses so that other
people can take from thatlearning, and then it becomes
kind of a cultural feedback loop.
Dr. Pelè (15:41):
That's so awesome, and you mentioned our friend, bob
Nelson.
Dr Bob, I've done some workwith him and just an awesome guy
.
He's a great storyteller, asyou are.
And on the topic of stories, doyou have any favorite stories
that you like to share?
You don't have to mention thename of the company or anything,
(16:03):
but stories that talk aboutwhat it looks like when a
culture is being developed inthe right direction, when
employees are feeling like thisis a place they want to be and
it's beyond just the ping-pongtable in the foyer.
It's a real, deep, meaningfulhappiness and engagement.
What are your favorite storiesabout how that comes to be in
the world?
Christi Gilhoi (16:25):
Yeah, I think one of the things that was
really, really fun was doing ata big company, tech company
doing a lot of focus groups andmeeting with those frontline
engineers, those 23 year oldswho are a brand new and career
and talking about what wouldmake their work life meaningful.
And some of them said there weresuch simple things.
(16:48):
If only my VP, my vice president, could see the work I'm doing,
if only he or she would call meor stop by my office or, as we
had an online program put athumbs up on something that I
did, if I could be seen, thatwould be so impactful to me.
So I met with them on one side.
Then I went to the C-suite andthose VP's and I said to them
(17:10):
you know, you really need towalk around more and talk to
people about what they're doingand engage and give people
recognition.
And they said, oh, that's notthat, you know, that's not that
meaningful.
And then I started to tell thestory about this is this is what
your frontline engineers say,this is what your data says,
this is what people are sayingwould change their feeling about
(17:30):
work.
And so really being thetranslator between those two
groups, because those high-endbusiness leaders are focused on
running the business and they'refocused on the bottom line and
they're focused on the marketand they don't always understand
how much power that muscle,that daily just doing your
scales, every day, five minutesif they would call someone or
(17:50):
walk around or say something orshout out to someone can be so
impactful with early careerprofessionals.
Dr. Pelè (17:59):
Wow, the idea of a daily practice.
How amazing is that?
Like, isn't that a crazy thing?
Why don't we?
Let's have a daily practiceabout something good.
Let's do small things and thesmall things will somehow become
big.
You know, I always marvel at howsuch simple wisdom is sometimes
lost on some of the mostsuccessful people in the world.
(18:19):
In the world of work, it's likejust make some people around
you happy and maybe everythingworks right.
But you're right, if you couldencourage people and you're the
translator to do that, thingsjust happen and they're
successful.
I love that story and I thinkthat's something everyone should
sort of remember.
Let me ask you if you were togive people just maybe one.
(18:45):
Let's say you were on a desertisland.
You had one piece of advicethat you needed to give the
world and they said give us thisone piece of advice regarding
employee experience, employeeengagement and the business
results that must accompanyemployee experience and
engagement.
What would that one big pieceof advice be?
And then we'll have to makesure they can make it a daily
(19:06):
practice down the road.
Christi Gilhoi (19:10):
I think it would be in the area of multiplier
effect.
You, Dr.
Pelè, can talk to people and dopodcasts.
I, Christi, can meet withpeople, but I'm limited right,
I'm limited but bandwidth ormaybe if there's a presentation.
So the most successful programsI have had have involved a
group of ambassadors or culturebearers or a group of other
(19:31):
people who have that same energyand that same love.
So if you can find those peoplein an organization, they could
be a security guard, they couldbe an engineer, they could be a
VP Really weaving that networkand finding those hundred people
in a 10,000 person company whocan be your ambassadors and
empowering them.
(19:52):
It's like that multiplier effect.
So I can affect those hundredpeople and those hundred people
can affect those 10,000.
So I've had great experience inmy last two companies of really
nurturing people who have thatnatural ability to bring that
happiness and joy to people andtrying to put that into actual
programs where they arerecognizing people and maybe
(20:13):
they're in Japan or maybethey're in Sweden, so you also
get that international impactwhere it's much harder to do
that from San Diego.
So I think intentionallybuilding that kind of positive
army of engagement folks canreally help with your programs
and strategy.
Dr. Pelè (20:30):
I think, that's just genius because I mean, come on,
it's one thing, as you said,it's one thing for you and I to
talk about this, but how aboutwe motivate and inspire so many
other people to be our voice onthis topic and, I think,
shifting a little bit about thequestion of happiness at work
and employees well-being andthings like that?
(20:53):
I wonder, in my experience I'llstart with this in my
experience, a lot of leadersmean well, but they don't get
this very simple thing I thinkyou're talking about.
Is there a way to help peopleunderstand the importance of
employee happiness?
I mean, look, I'll tell you, Ionce worked for a leader.
(21:14):
She said to me one day hey,listen, all this emotional stuff
you're talking about, dr Pillai, we don't need that here.
We just want people to get thisstuff done.
And I'm just wondering someonelike you might just know a good
way to help leaders connect atthis level.
What would you share about that?
Christi Gilhoi (21:35):
Two things, I think.
One you need someone leadingthe charge who's totally
determined and totally positive.
It's hard work trying to bringhappiness and satisfaction to an
employee base, so you have tohave a true believer.
So your energy is incredible.
I brought in Dr Bob and hadgreat ambassadors.
But you have to be a truebeliever If whoever's leading
(21:56):
the charge needs to reallybelieve that.
I would often say I'm putting onmy Iron man suit when I went
into some of those meetingsbecause a lot of people don't
believe it.
You've got a lot of detractorsand a lot of skepticism.
So determination, positivity,and then it's interesting
because one of the things, thestories I've been able to tell,
is a lot of time these leaderswho are further along in their
(22:18):
career have forgotten what it'slike to be 23, 25, new company
and they don't think it'simportant, like you said.
But if you tie it back,sometimes their kids or their
niece or their nephew arestruggling with this in their
life.
If you can get that personalstory, they're like oh, I get it
.
That's what my son or daughteror niece or nephew talk about.
Making it more personal and Ithink, seeing people as
(22:43):
individual humans versus sort ofthe employees right and seeing
them as having complex selvesand trying to address some of
the needs that we all have ascomplex humans.
Dr. Pelè (22:55):
Oh, that is just so true, and I think what you're
really saying is some empathy isrequired.
You know, leaders need torecognize that, yes, you're
focused this way on gettingthese results, but these
employees also kind of want tofeel a certain way, and it's
when those two sometimesopposing approaches come
(23:16):
together that we get the bestorganizations.
Christy, I want to ask you whatare you excited about right now
?
What are you working on?
What do you want to share andwhere can people find you online
to connect with you?
Christi Gilhoi (23:30):
Sure, I'm excited about putting together
programs for companies that aretrying to figure this out,
trying to crack this nut.
So I'm interested in helpingpeople put together recognition
programs where great work iscalled out.
I'm interested in puttingtogether successful onboarding
programs where people feel likewhen they come on board they
understand the culture and wherethey're working and they feel
(23:51):
fired up.
I'm interested in helpingcompanies talk about their
culture and tell the stories andhave the right language and
have that one levity, part ofthat stickiness of a company.
So doing a lot of consulting inthat area for small companies
and also for large institutionswhere I can come in and really
help them solve a problem Ithink post-pandemic.
(24:13):
We're all trying to figure itout.
Nobody has all the exactanswers and I think it's a great
time to experiment, to trythings, and so as a consultant
it's easy for me to come in, trysomething, see if it works and
then build on that, measure thedata and then see where to go
from there.
So confine me.
I'm linked in Christie Guilfoyand happy to share best
(24:34):
practices, stories, case studies, examples etc to help anyone
out there who's trying to figureout the next steps for their
employment strategy.
Dr. Pelè (24:45):
Quick question you betcha, yeah sure, I was going
to say how many Minnesota thingscan we talk into this
conversation there?
There was three right thereUftah, you betcha, and yeah sure
.
Christi Gilhoi (25:00):
That's amazing.
Dr. Pelè (25:01):
Yeah, so, Christie, I just have to say that, when it
comes to the idea of building apractice, as you said, best
practices, building thesemuscles, these habits of
employees getting what they wantand leaders also getting what
they want.
I want to wish you the verybest in everything you do and
thank you for bringing just sucha lively viewpoint about the
(25:22):
whole thing to the ProfitableHappiness Podcast.
I really appreciate meeting you.
Christi Gilhoi (25:27):
Oh, dr Pillay, I mean you know, when you come
away from something where youfeel energized and excited, that
it's been a good interaction.
So, thank you, it's been lovelyto see you and your audience
and I'd love to talk abouthappiness and employees.
That's my favorite thing.
Dr. Pelè (25:43):
Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
For more episodes, visitdrpillaycom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
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