August 29, 2023 • 27 mins
Ever been trapped in a pattern that's holding you back?
Our guest today, Tony Martignetti, a distinguished Leadership Coach and Chief Inspiration Officer, has turned this common dilemma into an opportunity for growth and transformation in today's organizations.
Tony deftly explains how even well-established patterns can be detrimental if they're not serving your purpose and underlines the importance of breaking free from these patterns to foster alignment with your organization and the people who surround you.
To connect with Tony Martignetti online, visit:
Website: https://www.inspiredpurposecoach.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonymartignett1/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Pelè (00:00):
Hello happy people, welcome to the Profitable
Happiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr.
Pelè with the ProfitableHappiness Podcast, and today it
is my pleasure to introduce youto Tony Martignetti, who is a
chief inspiration officer.
He's actually a leadershipcoach, a leadership development
(00:23):
facilitator, but you know,something that he brings to the
world that I really findfascinating is this idea of
grounded leadership.
So, tony, you're going to haveto tell us all about that.
How are you doing today?
Tony Martignetti (00:35):
I'm doing great.
Your energy is just making mefeel so like excited.
I'm thrilled.
Dr. Pelè (00:41):
Absolutely so excited to meet you and to get to talk
about your approaches, yourpoints of view and your book,
which is titled Climbing theRight Mountain Right.
So before we get started, Ihave one big question for you,
tony.
If you look at the work thatyou've done, the body of
knowledge that you've amassed Imean the book that you've
(01:03):
written, all the interactionsyou've had in organizations, if
you were to boil it all down tothe one challenge that you see
over and over I know that's abig question what would that
challenge be?
What do you see?
That's kind of troublingorganizations so much that they
have to bring in a TonyMartignetti to help them solve
it.
Tony Martignetti (01:22):
Yeah, I'm going to say it in a way that
will really resonate with a lotof people people getting stuck
in patterns that they think thatwhat they're doing is working,
but in reality it's that theyneed to break out of that
pattern that is not serving themany longer.
And let me explain a bit more.
(01:44):
They've got leaders who havestepped into these seats and
what's happened is they've usedwhat has gotten them into that
role and they continue to usethat same tried and true method
and then realize that it's notworking any longer.
They have to sometimes take astep away and say, hey, there's
(02:05):
another way of approaching thisand I need to maybe change
things up, adjust my approach,be more aligned with how this
organization works and how mypeople are wired.
Dr. Pelè (02:22):
What I find so fascinating about that is the
first thing you alluded to,which is this propensity for
people to be blind a little bit,to have these blind spots,
almost like an ostrich that hasits head in the sand.
Why can't we see everythingthat we're doing and it's
happening around us?
(02:42):
I think that's a fascinatingthing.
I'd like to see how youapproach that challenge, Tony.
Tell us how you got here.
How did you become the guywho's opening up these doors and
helping people see the realitythat they live in so they can be
the great grounded leaders thatthey need to be?
How'd you get?
here, what's your story?
Tony Martignetti (03:00):
Oh, I'm happy to share.
So I'm going to start a littleways back and I'm going to go
relatively fast to bring youmore in the present.
My journey started as a childwho loved to paint and draw.
The accent there wasn't quiteright, but I was an artist and I
(03:21):
spent a lot of time creatingenvironments and worlds that
were all about the emotionalexperience that people would
create.
And this is weird for a childbecause you usually think like
stick figures and dogs and catsand what have you.
Dr. Pelè (03:35):
Superman.
Tony Martignetti (03:36):
Yeah, exactly.
But no, I was a very differenttype of art that I created and I
was celebrated for it.
I won awards and all that andeventually I thought I'd be an
architect.
But as I got to this pointwhere people said, hey, you got
to think about where you'regoing to make some money.
We don't want to see me thestarving artist if you will, and
so.
(03:57):
So I changed gears, went andbecame a pre-med major.
That made sense, right.
But that didn't work out.
So because I'd you know I hadthis, didn't really want to cut
people open and go into business.
So shifted into business andthen ended up working for most
(04:17):
of my career and first onhigh-tech and then eventually in
biotech, which was an amazingjourney and an amazing career to
be part of, working in financeand strategy roles and, you know
, eventually doing reallyamazing work in rare diseases,
in oncology and in manydifferent disease areas.
(04:40):
I had a chance to meet patients.
It was really powerful stuffand I also had the sense of like
what good leadership is andwhat bad leadership is,
especially when the things aremost challenging.
So here I am, 25 years, youknow, working in this industry.
(05:00):
That is changing lives.
But what I along the way, Istarted to feel the sense of
like I'm just working so hard tobe something that I don't think
I was meant for and would tellme that all the time they said
you know, you're not the typical, you know finance person and
I'd be like, well, this is whatI do and this is how I'm, you
know, this is who I definemyself to be, until I realized
(05:23):
one day that I was burningmyself out to be something that
I'm not.
And and I said about breakingpatterns, you know, we we put
ourselves in these patternsbecause we think this is what
defines me, this is who I am andtherefore I need to continue to
to fit that mold.
But I had to break out of thatbox and say I'm more than this
(05:44):
I'm, I can do more, and that'swhat broke.
That's what is my, where mystory said it to evolve.
I decided to leave the corporateworld to become something
completely different In theminds of everyone else who knew
me, and that was become a coachand advisor and all the things I
do now, which has me being morecreative again, mmm.
Dr. Pelè (06:06):
Mmm, oh, what a story.
You know you may not realizethis what we just met, so you
wouldn't know this, but you andI are almost precisely alike in
that story, because I alsostarted out as an artist.
I also went.
I went to architecture school.
I also decided I couldn't be astarving architect or starving
artist.
I also went into the corporateworld.
(06:28):
On and on and on.
And here here we both are, youknow, still designing, though,
still helping people create newrealities.
That's, that's really what it'salways been, isn't it for you?
Tony Martignetti (06:42):
You are a creative spirit at heart 100%,
and I think everyone has a hasthis inside of them to an extent
that they but they need to tapinto it in their own unique way,
and you know it's the mediumchanges, like how you actually
create is is Unique to you, butyou have to figure out how you
(07:02):
want to express yourself and andalso make sure that you're not
holding yourself back andDefining yourself based on what
everyone else wants to find youin.
I talk about this box ideabecause we do end up putting
ourselves into boxes Becauseit's so convenient and everyone
else wants to define us.
Dr. Pelè (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's, that's so true.
I have something on my wallhere.
I look at it every day and thatis a leader is one who knows
the way, goes the way and showsthe way.
And you, my friend, you embodythat, because you know all this,
all the things that you'veexperienced have really brought
you to this concept that youtalked about with me earlier,
(07:40):
this idea of grounded leadership.
Yeah, maybe you could lead usinto how you're shaping.
Your own historical shapingBrought you to this idea of
grounded leadership, and thenlet's talk about how we apply
that to, to these organizationalchallenges.
Tony Martignetti (07:55):
Absolutely yeah, and this idea of grounded
leadership really is somethingthat is.
It was something that peoplewere reflecting back to me and
then I realized, wait a minute,that is what I meant to give,
and so let me give you some,some context to that as I
started to show up in the worldin a different way.
I started to really connect withwho I really was and I I'll say
(08:17):
this in a way that is sayingthat when I started my business
as a coach and as an advisor, Ihad this quote that I worked
with, that it was Inspirationthrough honest conversations.
The first honest conversationwas with myself and this idea
that I had to really understandwho I was and what, what I was
out, what I was all about.
(08:37):
And when I did Kind of exploredeeper to understand who I am, I
realized that that's you know,the part that I need to start
with, this awareness of how Ishow up and how people will
receive me.
And that awareness allowed meto to have more conversations
that were a little more bold, alittle more courageous and and
(09:02):
also Without any ego, becausehere I am, showing up in a world
that I really didn't know muchabout but I had to like learn.
So, as I was having theseconversations, people would
reflect back to me and saying,every time I have a conversation
with you, I had the sense oflike, calmness and groundedness
in the sense that you, you, younever get, you know, un,
(09:27):
unflacked if you're, or kind oflike Moved in a way that feels
like you're not able to see past.
You know the present moment.
I won't say like I'm some guruor anything like that.
It's just a sense of like how Ishowed up and like that, those
moments that kept on showing upwhere people would say, my god,
(09:47):
I feel so much more possibility.
But I also feel a sense of like, calmness every time I have
this conversation with you.
It led me down this path ofexploring that deeper and that's
what grounded leadership it is.
It's a sense of creating thatcalm space for the people around
you and also being able to leaninto the future and know that
(10:09):
whatever we're gonna be creating, we're gonna be, we're gonna be
connected to an intentionalactions.
So we're gonna take that arecoming from a place of knowing
where we're headed, but also notletting the uncertainty of what
might show up Throw us offbalance.
Mmm, mmm.
Dr. Pelè (10:25):
Wow, you know you share quite a bit on LinkedIn.
I even follow you and you knowyou do.
You do project that sort ofcalm, you know, in difficult
seas, and sort of that reliablevoice that people can, can, can
hold on to.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe, the details of that, and
(10:45):
maybe this is where you couldbring in some ideas from your,
your body of knowledge, yourbook.
How exactly do we help leadersfind that calm space, that
grounded leadership approach?
I mean, do you have athree-step process, a 12-step
plan?
How do you actually get it donefor organizations?
Tony Martignetti (11:06):
Yeah, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna start by saying wealready know all the things we
need to know to be able to dothat.
Yeah, the things that we wethink that all the answers are
outside of us, but the realitiesare all inside of us.
We just need to unearth themand we have to be able to, to
listen to those and those thingsthat are inside of us and let
(11:26):
them come to the surface.
And so how do we do that?
Right, the reason why I saythis is because there is a sense
of like you know where the?
You know how do I move forwardfrom here?
What are the?
What's the path forward, how tobe resilient, that kind of
thing.
The reality is that we've donea lot of things in our past that
tell us how to move forward,but we're always thinking that
(11:48):
the answer must be some newanswer, you.
So here's how we do this.
It's called it's like a timetraveling exercise.
So the first thing you wanna dois you wanna look back and look
at.
You know what are the thingsthat have brought me to this
place, where I'm maybequestioning or, you know, maybe
challenged with where to moveforward.
(12:08):
So look back to what are thechallenges that brought me here,
what are the what's, theinventory of strengths and the
things that have brought me tocome to this spot where I am
today.
When you reflect back and youcollect those moments, you start
to build strength from that.
(12:29):
You get to see that, wait aminute, I've survived all the
things that have got me here.
Yeah, so that's not too bad.
Dr. Pelè (12:39):
That is so powerful.
You know so many people.
In fact.
There's a song by Stevie Wonder, I think it's called Pastime
Paradise.
Yeah, I hope that's one.
I hope that's what it's called.
But you know he talks about theidea of so many people being
stuck in a future paradise ofworries and they don't know,
(12:59):
they're unhappy about tomorrowand they're afraid of yesterday
and all the things thatyesterday, the failures and all
the things, and they forget tolive in the present.
And I know you said you're nota guru, but I have to tell you
the things you're talking aboutare guru level, powerful stuff.
So I wanna know more about thisidea that the past has a
(13:20):
positive power, not a negativeone, not something that we
should be afraid of and regret.
How do we get the positivepower out of the past?
Tony Martignetti (13:28):
Yeah, I mean, even if there's been traumatic
events, there's learnings fromthat that will allow us to kind
of guide forward.
And it starts with just kind ofsaying what was it about that
situation that I wanna take withme and I call it about?
This comes from Ken Wilbertranscend and include.
You wanna include things thatyou've done in the past, but
(13:50):
you're also in this moment ofhow can I use that to transcend
that past and use it as a forceof good into the future, which
we'll get to that because, we'resaid time traveling, there's
more steps to be taken, but theidea is that you're really
looking at what was it about mein those moments that I had to
(14:13):
that made me get through thosedark times?
What was it about me that Iutilize, what tools, strengths,
capacities that I was able totap into that got me through
challenging periods of my pastlife?
Dr. Pelè (14:28):
Yeah, yeah, take us deeper.
So now you sort of opened upthe premise where to start,
right, I know that you sharedwith me some of your
methodologies, like theconnection and the compassion
and things like that.
Take us deeper into that, nowthat we've maybe examined our
past and we have a sense of okay, now what Like?
(14:52):
How do I achieve groundedleadership so I can get happy
employees, productive andprofitable companies?
How do we bring it all together?
Tony Martignetti (15:00):
Yeah, and so I wanna jump right fast forward a
little bit and just say thereare really three big Cs that I
think about, three Cs that arethe foundation of grounded
leadership, and they areconnection, compassion and
curiosity.
And when you tap into thesethree Cs, they're a big part of
(15:21):
making sure that you're showingup in the most powerful way for
your employees and for yourself.
The curiosity part of this is asense of how can I get curious
about what this event, thismoment, this period in time that
we're going through, if it's achallenging period, what does it
mean and how can I learn fromit?
(15:41):
How can a potential obstaclebecome an opportunity?
And that's where the curiosityallows you to not freak out in
the moment, react instead, thinkof it as this could be fuel.
And if I'm lean into this andget curious, I might find that
Compassion is that, hey, we maymake a mistake, I have to be
(16:07):
okay with dealing with things,that we might stumble the
failures, things like that, andbeing able to own that and also
guide other people through thatprocess and check in with them,
because they're not necessarilyon the same journey as I am, but
I wanna be able to support themin that process of guiding them
(16:27):
through a challenging period ofwork in the company.
And then connection is realizingthat if you're not connecting
with other people on a deeperlevel and showing them who you
are in this process, and it'shard for them to follow along
with you because they may notunderstand your full intentions.
(16:51):
So connection is somethingthat's an ongoing journey, but
it's really important for you toreally connect deeply with your
employees and with the otherpeople on your journey so that
they understand that where isthis all coming from?
Where are we going?
Can I trust this person?
Well, if you're revealing moreof who you are in this process,
they'll reveal more of how theyfeel about you.
(17:13):
Connection is the best way tobuild trust powerful, powerful
stuff.
Dr. Pelè (17:20):
And I love the whole three C's thing because now I
can remember it.
You know, tony, tell us aboutclimbing the right mountain.
I can't tell you how manythings I've tried in my life and
done and someday you wake upand you're like wait a second,
all this hard work, is this theright thing to do?
Yeah, you wrote a whole bookabout that.
(17:42):
You know you talk about thisjourney.
Tell us what you mean byclimbing the right mountain.
Tony Martignetti (17:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
This was a book that I wrotebecause I was hearing so many
people who had come to me andsharing these stories.
But, like man, I don't knowlike I've done all the work I've
worked really hard, but I feelso unfulfilled.
Dr. Pelè (18:02):
I feel so unsatisfied.
Tony Martignetti (18:04):
And I, you know, feel so burnt out.
And I started to reflect backon that and said, you know, I
kind of feel the same way.
That was my experience and youknow this sense of working so
hard and sacrificing a lot toget to this place and then
realizing I didn't really likethe view that I was experiencing
.
And so, you know, the book isreally this idea of how can we
(18:29):
change the way we look at thingsso that we do do things in a
different way, and realizingthat it's never too late to
change the course you're on.
Change the mountain if you will.
And so at the core of all ofwhat the book's about.
It's really defining success onyour own terms, not by based on
what other people think successlooks like and that's the
(18:52):
mountain that you're climbing isthat it's going to be based on
what you truly want, not whatothers want for you, and not
what society says success shouldlook like and we're going to
talk about this a bit about.
You know, happiness, but I'm Ithink of this idea that
fulfillment is actually a muchmore.
(19:14):
It's a lasting effect ofhappiness.
It's like coming from a placeof, of seeing that I'm fulfilled
, not happy, not saying thatit's like bad to be happy, but
just saying filming is even adeeper sense of happiness and
it's a place to come from, not aplace to go to.
Dr. Pelè (19:36):
Ooh, I like that.
Yeah, we're gonna have to,you're gonna have to copyright
that one.
You know, tony, you've actuallybrought us to one of my
favorite topics, which ishappiness.
But before I ask you a questionabout it, I love what you just
said, which is there areactually competing definitions
of happiness out there and wehave to clarify what we mean by
(19:58):
happiness if we're going to havea real conversation.
So, for example, a lot of peoplesort of defaults to thinking
about happiness as the pleasureseeking type of happiness, the
kind of happiness where it'slike rah, rah, got office
parties, we got, we got a pingpong table in the foyer.
You know that's happy, butthat's actually not the kind of
(20:19):
happiness that promotes deeperengagement and fulfillment and
and you know that sense of flowand doing what you love.
I think that's what you'retalking about and that's
actually how I define profitablehappiness.
So, if you think about thestandard definitions of hedonic
happiness, which is what we justtalked about, the rah rah
(20:39):
versus eudaimonic happiness,which is the more engagement
focused happiness, that's whatwe mean by profitable happiness.
By the way, eudaimonichappiness is a big mouthful, I
didn't want to use that.
So, I coined profitablehappiness to replace the idea of
eudaimonic happiness.
So tell us, now that we've sortof I think we agree on these
(21:00):
definitions, tell us how, inyour work with grounded
leadership and in your work withorganizations, how have you
found it possible to helpleaders build both happy
employees and profitablecompanies at the same time,
which we know can be a tough, atough thing to do.
Tony Martignetti (21:17):
Yeah, I mean it comes down to really getting
to know people at a more, I'dsay a deeper level, and it
starts by sharing at a deeperlevel.
I have this methodology which Ijust recently shared in a TED
talk.
That hasn't been released yet,but it'll be released soon.
It's called the core method andit really comes from this idea
(21:41):
that we need to be able to becurious, open and release.
I won't get into the full gistof how this works, but release
any kind of tension aboutsharing who we are and then
expand.
This core methodology is reallyabout sharing more of ourselves
(22:04):
in the workplace so that we cancreate deeper connections with
other people.
When we do that, it creates anenvironment where people want to
bring more themselves into theworkplace.
Dr. Pelè (22:18):
What does that do?
Tony Martignetti (22:19):
It creates happy employees, it creates more
engagement and actuallysomething even more than
engagement it encrates a senseof enrichment and how people
feel about the organization.
I think that's something thatI've been toying with for a
while, which is this idea thatwe want to create workplaces
where people don't just come towork because they're like, oh, I
(22:41):
feel engaged, but they feellike when they come to work,
they're going to be better offbecause of it.
They may leave eventually, whichis fine, but they're going to
leave feeling like I feel muchbetter off having worked here.
Dr. Pelè (22:58):
Deep, Deep stuff.
I've always been concerned thatorganizations' leaders tend to
be more focused on theorganization, On the profit side
of the equation than on thehappy employees.
How do we help leaders reallymake that connection, to know in
their hearts and minds, ofcourse that by helping employees
(23:21):
find what they want, which iswell-being, happiness,
engagement, fulfillment, thesefuzzy soft things that will lead
to business profit?
How do we help them see thatlink?
Tony Martignetti (23:34):
Yeah, I mean it starts with our own
understanding of what it meansto us that if we're showing up
and we're feeling connected tothe fact that we're doing work
that's meaningful and we feelconnected to the people around
us I know we use that a lot thatit will make an impact.
I could show you countlessstudies.
Microsoft is a classic exampleof this.
(23:57):
When Satya Nadella came intothe CEO role, he had this shift
that he made, where he basicallygot into this mindset of let's
create a more connectedorganization, let's create a
more learn-it-all organization,where everyone learns instead of
knows everything.
Because of that, the employeeengagement went through the roof
(24:20):
and innovation went through theroof.
If you need a better examplethan that, there's countless
other ones out there, but that'sa great example to show you the
bottom line is improved as soonas you start to engage people
on this level.
That is about connection andnot all about competition.
(24:41):
When people are competingagainst each other, which seems
on the surface like oh, we'regoing to compete against each
other, then we end up gettingthe best out of everyone.
But no, that's not the case.
The best thing you can do ishow people get to know each
other on a level that's muchdeeper than just hey, we work on
(25:03):
the same team.
Dr. Pelè (25:05):
Powerful stuff, powerful stuff.
Tony, tell us what are youexcited about right now.
What are you working on.
Do you have a project coming up, something new that's got you
all buzzed up?
Let us know how people canactually find you online so that
they can learn more about thesethings that you're working on
right now.
Tony Martignetti (25:23):
Absolutely so.
first of all, the thing I'mworking on right now is I'm
working on my next book and it'scalled the Campfire Lessons for
Leaders and that'll be releasedin 2024, most likely Still
going to the publishers and allthat.
But the idea behind the book isit's based on my podcast, the
Virtual Campfire, and it's abook that shares some key
(25:48):
lessons that I've learnedthrough interviewing over 200
people on the podcast abouttheir journeys of transformation
, and some powerful lessons frompeople from all walks of life
that have shared some reallypowerful stories.
But what are the key thingsthat were common to all of them?
(26:08):
So that's one thing that I'mreally excited about and I can't
wait to get that out in theworld.
And then the best place to findme is on my website.
It's inspired.
It's inspired purpose partners,but the website is
ipurposepartnerscom.
Got that Definitely.
Dr. Pelè (26:29):
And so obviously I'm also going to add the LinkedIn
link, because that's where wemet, on LinkedIn, and I hope
that this powerful new approachthat you're bringing into the
world, the idea of groundedleadership, sort of that calm in
the storm I hope that that getsout there because I think I
(26:49):
find it to be very powerful.
There's too much chaos in ourworld and it just seems like the
way to go.
So thank you for being a partof this podcast.
Tony Martignetti (27:00):
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
I've really had fun, absolutely.
Dr. Pelè (27:05):
Thanks for tuning in to the profitable happiness
podcast.
For more episodes, visitDrPalletcom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
Hello happy people, welcome to the Profitable
Happiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr.
Pelè with the ProfitableHappiness Podcast, and today it
is my pleasure to introduce youto Tony Martignetti, who is a
chief inspiration officer.
He's actually a leadershipcoach, a leadership development
(00:23):
facilitator, but you know,something that he brings to the
world that I really findfascinating is this idea of
grounded leadership.
So, tony, you're going to haveto tell us all about that.
How are you doing today?
Tony Martignetti (00:35):
I'm doing great.
Your energy is just making mefeel so like excited.
I'm thrilled.
Dr. Pelè (00:41):
Absolutely so excited to meet you and to get to talk
about your approaches, yourpoints of view and your book,
which is titled Climbing theRight Mountain Right.
So before we get started, Ihave one big question for you,
tony.
If you look at the work thatyou've done, the body of
knowledge that you've amassed Imean the book that you've
(01:03):
written, all the interactionsyou've had in organizations, if
you were to boil it all down tothe one challenge that you see
over and over I know that's abig question what would that
challenge be?
What do you see?
That's kind of troublingorganizations so much that they
have to bring in a TonyMartignetti to help them solve
it.
Tony Martignetti (01:22):
Yeah, I'm going to say it in a way that
will really resonate with a lotof people people getting stuck
in patterns that they think thatwhat they're doing is working,
but in reality it's that theyneed to break out of that
pattern that is not serving themany longer.
And let me explain a bit more.
(01:44):
They've got leaders who havestepped into these seats and
what's happened is they've usedwhat has gotten them into that
role and they continue to usethat same tried and true method
and then realize that it's notworking any longer.
They have to sometimes take astep away and say, hey, there's
(02:05):
another way of approaching thisand I need to maybe change
things up, adjust my approach,be more aligned with how this
organization works and how mypeople are wired.
Dr. Pelè (02:22):
What I find so fascinating about that is the
first thing you alluded to,which is this propensity for
people to be blind a little bit,to have these blind spots,
almost like an ostrich that hasits head in the sand.
Why can't we see everythingthat we're doing and it's
happening around us?
(02:42):
I think that's a fascinatingthing.
I'd like to see how youapproach that challenge, Tony.
Tell us how you got here.
How did you become the guywho's opening up these doors and
helping people see the realitythat they live in so they can be
the great grounded leaders thatthey need to be?
How'd you get?
here, what's your story?
Tony Martignetti (03:00):
Oh, I'm happy to share.
So I'm going to start a littleways back and I'm going to go
relatively fast to bring youmore in the present.
My journey started as a childwho loved to paint and draw.
The accent there wasn't quiteright, but I was an artist and I
(03:21):
spent a lot of time creatingenvironments and worlds that
were all about the emotionalexperience that people would
create.
And this is weird for a childbecause you usually think like
stick figures and dogs and catsand what have you.
Dr. Pelè (03:35):
Superman.
Tony Martignetti (03:36):
Yeah, exactly.
But no, I was a very differenttype of art that I created and I
was celebrated for it.
I won awards and all that andeventually I thought I'd be an
architect.
But as I got to this pointwhere people said, hey, you got
to think about where you'regoing to make some money.
We don't want to see me thestarving artist if you will, and
so.
(03:57):
So I changed gears, went andbecame a pre-med major.
That made sense, right.
But that didn't work out.
So because I'd you know I hadthis, didn't really want to cut
people open and go into business.
So shifted into business andthen ended up working for most
(04:17):
of my career and first onhigh-tech and then eventually in
biotech, which was an amazingjourney and an amazing career to
be part of, working in financeand strategy roles and, you know
, eventually doing reallyamazing work in rare diseases,
in oncology and in manydifferent disease areas.
(04:40):
I had a chance to meet patients.
It was really powerful stuffand I also had the sense of like
what good leadership is andwhat bad leadership is,
especially when the things aremost challenging.
So here I am, 25 years, youknow, working in this industry.
(05:00):
That is changing lives.
But what I along the way, Istarted to feel the sense of
like I'm just working so hard tobe something that I don't think
I was meant for and would tellme that all the time they said
you know, you're not the typical, you know finance person and
I'd be like, well, this is whatI do and this is how I'm, you
know, this is who I definemyself to be, until I realized
(05:23):
one day that I was burningmyself out to be something that
I'm not.
And and I said about breakingpatterns, you know, we we put
ourselves in these patternsbecause we think this is what
defines me, this is who I am andtherefore I need to continue to
to fit that mold.
But I had to break out of thatbox and say I'm more than this
(05:44):
I'm, I can do more, and that'swhat broke.
That's what is my, where mystory said it to evolve.
I decided to leave the corporateworld to become something
completely different In theminds of everyone else who knew
me, and that was become a coachand advisor and all the things I
do now, which has me being morecreative again, mmm.
Dr. Pelè (06:06):
Mmm, oh, what a story.
You know you may not realizethis what we just met, so you
wouldn't know this, but you andI are almost precisely alike in
that story, because I alsostarted out as an artist.
I also went.
I went to architecture school.
I also decided I couldn't be astarving architect or starving
artist.
I also went into the corporateworld.
(06:28):
On and on and on.
And here here we both are, youknow, still designing, though,
still helping people create newrealities.
That's, that's really what it'salways been, isn't it for you?
Tony Martignetti (06:42):
You are a creative spirit at heart 100%,
and I think everyone has a hasthis inside of them to an extent
that they but they need to tapinto it in their own unique way,
and you know it's the mediumchanges, like how you actually
create is is Unique to you, butyou have to figure out how you
(07:02):
want to express yourself and andalso make sure that you're not
holding yourself back andDefining yourself based on what
everyone else wants to find youin.
I talk about this box ideabecause we do end up putting
ourselves into boxes Becauseit's so convenient and everyone
else wants to define us.
Dr. Pelè (07:18):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's, that's so true.
I have something on my wallhere.
I look at it every day and thatis a leader is one who knows
the way, goes the way and showsthe way.
And you, my friend, you embodythat, because you know all this,
all the things that you'veexperienced have really brought
you to this concept that youtalked about with me earlier,
(07:40):
this idea of grounded leadership.
Yeah, maybe you could lead usinto how you're shaping.
Your own historical shapingBrought you to this idea of
grounded leadership, and thenlet's talk about how we apply
that to, to these organizationalchallenges.
Tony Martignetti (07:55):
Absolutely yeah, and this idea of grounded
leadership really is somethingthat is.
It was something that peoplewere reflecting back to me and
then I realized, wait a minute,that is what I meant to give,
and so let me give you some,some context to that as I
started to show up in the worldin a different way.
I started to really connect withwho I really was and I I'll say
(08:17):
this in a way that is sayingthat when I started my business
as a coach and as an advisor, Ihad this quote that I worked
with, that it was Inspirationthrough honest conversations.
The first honest conversationwas with myself and this idea
that I had to really understandwho I was and what, what I was
out, what I was all about.
(08:37):
And when I did Kind of exploredeeper to understand who I am, I
realized that that's you know,the part that I need to start
with, this awareness of how Ishow up and how people will
receive me.
And that awareness allowed meto to have more conversations
that were a little more bold, alittle more courageous and and
(09:02):
also Without any ego, becausehere I am, showing up in a world
that I really didn't know muchabout but I had to like learn.
So, as I was having theseconversations, people would
reflect back to me and saying,every time I have a conversation
with you, I had the sense oflike, calmness and groundedness
in the sense that you, you, younever get, you know, un,
(09:27):
unflacked if you're, or kind oflike Moved in a way that feels
like you're not able to see past.
You know the present moment.
I won't say like I'm some guruor anything like that.
It's just a sense of like how Ishowed up and like that, those
moments that kept on showing upwhere people would say, my god,
(09:47):
I feel so much more possibility.
But I also feel a sense of like, calmness every time I have
this conversation with you.
It led me down this path ofexploring that deeper and that's
what grounded leadership it is.
It's a sense of creating thatcalm space for the people around
you and also being able to leaninto the future and know that
(10:09):
whatever we're gonna be creating, we're gonna be, we're gonna be
connected to an intentionalactions.
So we're gonna take that arecoming from a place of knowing
where we're headed, but also notletting the uncertainty of what
might show up Throw us offbalance.
Mmm, mmm.
Dr. Pelè (10:25):
Wow, you know you share quite a bit on LinkedIn.
I even follow you and you knowyou do.
You do project that sort ofcalm, you know, in difficult
seas, and sort of that reliablevoice that people can, can, can
hold on to.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe, the details of that, and
(10:45):
maybe this is where you couldbring in some ideas from your,
your body of knowledge, yourbook.
How exactly do we help leadersfind that calm space, that
grounded leadership approach?
I mean, do you have athree-step process, a 12-step
plan?
How do you actually get it donefor organizations?
Tony Martignetti (11:06):
Yeah, I'm gonna.
I'm gonna start by saying wealready know all the things we
need to know to be able to dothat.
Yeah, the things that we wethink that all the answers are
outside of us, but the realitiesare all inside of us.
We just need to unearth themand we have to be able to, to
listen to those and those thingsthat are inside of us and let
(11:26):
them come to the surface.
And so how do we do that?
Right, the reason why I saythis is because there is a sense
of like you know where the?
You know how do I move forwardfrom here?
What are the?
What's the path forward, how tobe resilient, that kind of
thing.
The reality is that we've donea lot of things in our past that
tell us how to move forward,but we're always thinking that
(11:48):
the answer must be some newanswer, you.
So here's how we do this.
It's called it's like a timetraveling exercise.
So the first thing you wanna dois you wanna look back and look
at.
You know what are the thingsthat have brought me to this
place, where I'm maybequestioning or, you know, maybe
challenged with where to moveforward.
(12:08):
So look back to what are thechallenges that brought me here,
what are the what's, theinventory of strengths and the
things that have brought me tocome to this spot where I am
today.
When you reflect back and youcollect those moments, you start
to build strength from that.
(12:29):
You get to see that, wait aminute, I've survived all the
things that have got me here.
Yeah, so that's not too bad.
Dr. Pelè (12:39):
That is so powerful.
You know so many people.
In fact.
There's a song by Stevie Wonder, I think it's called Pastime
Paradise.
Yeah, I hope that's one.
I hope that's what it's called.
But you know he talks about theidea of so many people being
stuck in a future paradise ofworries and they don't know,
(12:59):
they're unhappy about tomorrowand they're afraid of yesterday
and all the things thatyesterday, the failures and all
the things, and they forget tolive in the present.
And I know you said you're nota guru, but I have to tell you
the things you're talking aboutare guru level, powerful stuff.
So I wanna know more about thisidea that the past has a
(13:20):
positive power, not a negativeone, not something that we
should be afraid of and regret.
How do we get the positivepower out of the past?
Tony Martignetti (13:28):
Yeah, I mean, even if there's been traumatic
events, there's learnings fromthat that will allow us to kind
of guide forward.
And it starts with just kind ofsaying what was it about that
situation that I wanna take withme and I call it about?
This comes from Ken Wilbertranscend and include.
You wanna include things thatyou've done in the past, but
(13:50):
you're also in this moment ofhow can I use that to transcend
that past and use it as a forceof good into the future, which
we'll get to that because, we'resaid time traveling, there's
more steps to be taken, but theidea is that you're really
looking at what was it about mein those moments that I had to
(14:13):
that made me get through thosedark times?
What was it about me that Iutilize, what tools, strengths,
capacities that I was able totap into that got me through
challenging periods of my pastlife?
Dr. Pelè (14:28):
Yeah, yeah, take us deeper.
So now you sort of opened upthe premise where to start,
right, I know that you sharedwith me some of your
methodologies, like theconnection and the compassion
and things like that.
Take us deeper into that, nowthat we've maybe examined our
past and we have a sense of okay, now what Like?
(14:52):
How do I achieve groundedleadership so I can get happy
employees, productive andprofitable companies?
How do we bring it all together?
Tony Martignetti (15:00):
Yeah, and so I wanna jump right fast forward a
little bit and just say thereare really three big Cs that I
think about, three Cs that arethe foundation of grounded
leadership, and they areconnection, compassion and
curiosity.
And when you tap into thesethree Cs, they're a big part of
(15:21):
making sure that you're showingup in the most powerful way for
your employees and for yourself.
The curiosity part of this is asense of how can I get curious
about what this event, thismoment, this period in time that
we're going through, if it's achallenging period, what does it
mean and how can I learn fromit?
(15:41):
How can a potential obstaclebecome an opportunity?
And that's where the curiosityallows you to not freak out in
the moment, react instead, thinkof it as this could be fuel.
And if I'm lean into this andget curious, I might find that
Compassion is that, hey, we maymake a mistake, I have to be
(16:07):
okay with dealing with things,that we might stumble the
failures, things like that, andbeing able to own that and also
guide other people through thatprocess and check in with them,
because they're not necessarilyon the same journey as I am, but
I wanna be able to support themin that process of guiding them
(16:27):
through a challenging period ofwork in the company.
And then connection is realizingthat if you're not connecting
with other people on a deeperlevel and showing them who you
are in this process, and it'shard for them to follow along
with you because they may notunderstand your full intentions.
(16:51):
So connection is somethingthat's an ongoing journey, but
it's really important for you toreally connect deeply with your
employees and with the otherpeople on your journey so that
they understand that where isthis all coming from?
Where are we going?
Can I trust this person?
Well, if you're revealing moreof who you are in this process,
they'll reveal more of how theyfeel about you.
(17:13):
Connection is the best way tobuild trust powerful, powerful
stuff.
Dr. Pelè (17:20):
And I love the whole three C's thing because now I
can remember it.
You know, tony, tell us aboutclimbing the right mountain.
I can't tell you how manythings I've tried in my life and
done and someday you wake upand you're like wait a second,
all this hard work, is this theright thing to do?
Yeah, you wrote a whole bookabout that.
(17:42):
You know you talk about thisjourney.
Tell us what you mean byclimbing the right mountain.
Tony Martignetti (17:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
This was a book that I wrotebecause I was hearing so many
people who had come to me andsharing these stories.
But, like man, I don't knowlike I've done all the work I've
worked really hard, but I feelso unfulfilled.
Dr. Pelè (18:02):
I feel so unsatisfied.
Tony Martignetti (18:04):
And I, you know, feel so burnt out.
And I started to reflect backon that and said, you know, I
kind of feel the same way.
That was my experience and youknow this sense of working so
hard and sacrificing a lot toget to this place and then
realizing I didn't really likethe view that I was experiencing
.
And so, you know, the book isreally this idea of how can we
(18:29):
change the way we look at thingsso that we do do things in a
different way, and realizingthat it's never too late to
change the course you're on.
Change the mountain if you will.
And so at the core of all ofwhat the book's about.
It's really defining success onyour own terms, not by based on
what other people think successlooks like and that's the
(18:52):
mountain that you're climbing isthat it's going to be based on
what you truly want, not whatothers want for you, and not
what society says success shouldlook like and we're going to
talk about this a bit about.
You know, happiness, but I'm Ithink of this idea that
fulfillment is actually a muchmore.
(19:14):
It's a lasting effect ofhappiness.
It's like coming from a placeof, of seeing that I'm fulfilled
, not happy, not saying thatit's like bad to be happy, but
just saying filming is even adeeper sense of happiness and
it's a place to come from, not aplace to go to.
Dr. Pelè (19:36):
Ooh, I like that.
Yeah, we're gonna have to,you're gonna have to copyright
that one.
You know, tony, you've actuallybrought us to one of my
favorite topics, which ishappiness.
But before I ask you a questionabout it, I love what you just
said, which is there areactually competing definitions
of happiness out there and wehave to clarify what we mean by
(19:58):
happiness if we're going to havea real conversation.
So, for example, a lot of peoplesort of defaults to thinking
about happiness as the pleasureseeking type of happiness, the
kind of happiness where it'slike rah, rah, got office
parties, we got, we got a pingpong table in the foyer.
You know that's happy, butthat's actually not the kind of
(20:19):
happiness that promotes deeperengagement and fulfillment and
and you know that sense of flowand doing what you love.
I think that's what you'retalking about and that's
actually how I define profitablehappiness.
So, if you think about thestandard definitions of hedonic
happiness, which is what we justtalked about, the rah rah
(20:39):
versus eudaimonic happiness,which is the more engagement
focused happiness, that's whatwe mean by profitable happiness.
By the way, eudaimonichappiness is a big mouthful, I
didn't want to use that.
So, I coined profitablehappiness to replace the idea of
eudaimonic happiness.
So tell us, now that we've sortof I think we agree on these
(21:00):
definitions, tell us how, inyour work with grounded
leadership and in your work withorganizations, how have you
found it possible to helpleaders build both happy
employees and profitablecompanies at the same time,
which we know can be a tough, atough thing to do.
Tony Martignetti (21:17):
Yeah, I mean it comes down to really getting
to know people at a more, I'dsay a deeper level, and it
starts by sharing at a deeperlevel.
I have this methodology which Ijust recently shared in a TED
talk.
That hasn't been released yet,but it'll be released soon.
It's called the core method andit really comes from this idea
(21:41):
that we need to be able to becurious, open and release.
I won't get into the full gistof how this works, but release
any kind of tension aboutsharing who we are and then
expand.
This core methodology is reallyabout sharing more of ourselves
(22:04):
in the workplace so that we cancreate deeper connections with
other people.
When we do that, it creates anenvironment where people want to
bring more themselves into theworkplace.
Dr. Pelè (22:18):
What does that do?
Tony Martignetti (22:19):
It creates happy employees, it creates more
engagement and actuallysomething even more than
engagement it encrates a senseof enrichment and how people
feel about the organization.
I think that's something thatI've been toying with for a
while, which is this idea thatwe want to create workplaces
where people don't just come towork because they're like, oh, I
(22:41):
feel engaged, but they feellike when they come to work,
they're going to be better offbecause of it.
They may leave eventually, whichis fine, but they're going to
leave feeling like I feel muchbetter off having worked here.
Dr. Pelè (22:58):
Deep, Deep stuff.
I've always been concerned thatorganizations' leaders tend to
be more focused on theorganization, On the profit side
of the equation than on thehappy employees.
How do we help leaders reallymake that connection, to know in
their hearts and minds, ofcourse that by helping employees
(23:21):
find what they want, which iswell-being, happiness,
engagement, fulfillment, thesefuzzy soft things that will lead
to business profit?
How do we help them see thatlink?
Tony Martignetti (23:34):
Yeah, I mean it starts with our own
understanding of what it meansto us that if we're showing up
and we're feeling connected tothe fact that we're doing work
that's meaningful and we feelconnected to the people around
us I know we use that a lot thatit will make an impact.
I could show you countlessstudies.
Microsoft is a classic exampleof this.
(23:57):
When Satya Nadella came intothe CEO role, he had this shift
that he made, where he basicallygot into this mindset of let's
create a more connectedorganization, let's create a
more learn-it-all organization,where everyone learns instead of
knows everything.
Because of that, the employeeengagement went through the roof
(24:20):
and innovation went through theroof.
If you need a better examplethan that, there's countless
other ones out there, but that'sa great example to show you the
bottom line is improved as soonas you start to engage people
on this level.
That is about connection andnot all about competition.
(24:41):
When people are competingagainst each other, which seems
on the surface like oh, we'regoing to compete against each
other, then we end up gettingthe best out of everyone.
But no, that's not the case.
The best thing you can do ishow people get to know each
other on a level that's muchdeeper than just hey, we work on
(25:03):
the same team.
Dr. Pelè (25:05):
Powerful stuff, powerful stuff.
Tony, tell us what are youexcited about right now.
What are you working on.
Do you have a project coming up, something new that's got you
all buzzed up?
Let us know how people canactually find you online so that
they can learn more about thesethings that you're working on
right now.
Tony Martignetti (25:23):
Absolutely so.
first of all, the thing I'mworking on right now is I'm
working on my next book and it'scalled the Campfire Lessons for
Leaders and that'll be releasedin 2024, most likely Still
going to the publishers and allthat.
But the idea behind the book isit's based on my podcast, the
Virtual Campfire, and it's abook that shares some key
(25:48):
lessons that I've learnedthrough interviewing over 200
people on the podcast abouttheir journeys of transformation
, and some powerful lessons frompeople from all walks of life
that have shared some reallypowerful stories.
But what are the key thingsthat were common to all of them?
(26:08):
So that's one thing that I'mreally excited about and I can't
wait to get that out in theworld.
And then the best place to findme is on my website.
It's inspired.
It's inspired purpose partners,but the website is
ipurposepartnerscom.
Got that Definitely.
Dr. Pelè (26:29):
And so obviously I'm also going to add the LinkedIn
link, because that's where wemet, on LinkedIn, and I hope
that this powerful new approachthat you're bringing into the
world, the idea of groundedleadership, sort of that calm in
the storm I hope that that getsout there because I think I
(26:49):
find it to be very powerful.
There's too much chaos in ourworld and it just seems like the
way to go.
So thank you for being a partof this podcast.
Tony Martignetti (27:00):
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
I've really had fun, absolutely.
Dr. Pelè (27:05):
Thanks for tuning in to the profitable happiness
podcast.
For more episodes, visitDrPalletcom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
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