September 12, 2023 • 34 mins
What does it mean to be a leader?
Rose Fass, the trailblazing founder and chairman of fassforward, invites us to unravel this complex question in our latest deep-dive episode.
Rose, a veteran leader and author, leverages her new book, "The Leadership Conversation" to help us demystify some common misconceptions about leadership, emphasizing the importance of listening and the critical idea that "leadership happens in conversations!"
This episode is a veritable gold mine for anyone yearning to bridge the leadership gap and lead more effectively.
To connect with Rose Fass online, please visit:
Website: https://www.fassforward.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosefass/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Pelè (00:00):
Hello happy people, welcome to the Profitable
Happiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr Pelèwith the Profitable Happiness
Podcast, and today it is mypleasure to introduce you to
Rose Fass, who is the founderand chairman of Fass Forward.
(00:21):
She's the author of the bookThe Leadership Conversation, and
let me tell you something I'mso excited to learn today.
It's a simple idea that whenleaders are trying to influence
other people, it's actually notabout influencing as much as it
is about listening to the people.
So, Rose, it is a pleasure tomeet you.
(00:42):
How are you doing today?
Rose Fass (00:43):
Actually, quite well, the sun is shining, your face
looks like you're shining andyou've got me smiling, so I
think it's a good day.
It's a good day, awesome,awesome.
Dr. Pelè (00:54):
All right.
Well, Rose, you know we talkeda little bit about some of the
topics that you're going toshare with us today, but I think
the one topic I want to startwith really is what is the
central challenge, what is theproblem that is really to be
solved in these companies?
Yeah, and it's the leadershipgap.
Rose Fass (01:12):
We have a significant leadership gap.
We have it on the public stagewith our government officials.
We have it in corporations.
We have it in businesses acrossthe world.
There's a leadership gap.
People there's no shortage ofpeople managing work.
There's no shortage of peoplespending a lot of time on masks
(01:35):
and getting things done, talkingnonstop and telling people your
point of view, but there's abig shortage in really leading
others and providing for others,a way in which they can raise
the bar level up and become thepeople they need to be.
So, if I have to say, the onesingle thing that has completely
(02:01):
changed my life is theopportunity to focus, with
C-level executives all the waythrough the frontline management
, on the leadership gap.
Dr. Pelè (02:12):
You know, it's interesting when you share that
focus, the idea of a leadershipgap, because so many people have
titles like director, vicepresident, executive, vice
president, and yet there's aleadership gap.
Is this sort of an insidiousproblem that organizations
aren't fully aware of?
Rose Fass (02:32):
And I don't know that .
They're not aware of it.
I know some wonderful leadersthat are aware of it.
They don't know how to closethat gap.
You've said it perfectly Atitle doesn't make you a leader.
You know what I always loved InGame of Thrones?
The little boy king that was sopersnickety and awful.
And the grandfather comes upand the little boy goes I'm the
(02:53):
king.
And he says if you have to tellpeople you're the king, you're
not the king.
So I think it's veryinteresting when people bring up
the fact that I'm in charge of,or I'm the EVP of, or I'm this.
If you've ever had to identifythat way, you've already lost.
(03:14):
Nobody wants large and incharge.
Dr. Pelè (03:20):
That is so powerful.
You know, when we first startedtalking, you shared with me a
little story about a musicianthat you went to see a few years
ago, and I was just so taken byyour passion around describing
the blues and the experiencethat you had.
I wonder can you take us backto who you are and what brought
(03:41):
you, through your lifeexperiences, to this idea of the
leadership conversation?
Rose Fass (03:47):
Well, if we talk about music and I'll spend a
minute on this my father playedthe harmonica and one of the
relatives I think that dad wastelling me about one of his
cousins and Bill Haley.
In the comments he sort ofwrote a couple of those songs,
one o'clock, two o'clock, threeo'clock, rock was piano player.
I had a cousin, jackie, whoused to play the sax late at
(04:09):
night and you could just sit andlisten to the tenor sax.
So music for me has always beena way to reach the heart
there's something about it.
I've had a lot of time inbusiness and I always say most
of my friends are in the artsbecause I have the opportunity
to change the channel and I loveentertaining people in my home.
(04:29):
I love playing music andlistening to it, and
particularly live music and theopportunity to understand that
there's so much of messagingthat goes on in music today,
even our rap artists.
They're telling it like it is.
They're having those leadershipconversations.
They're having it music andthey're sharing what we need to
(04:50):
be thinking about.
I think it's important tolisten.
Dr. Pelè (04:54):
I do.
Rose Fass (04:55):
And I think just reading business books is never
going to get you there.
There's a lot to be done withthat, but it's the stories on
Gates of Fire, a wonderful bookabout the Trojan Wars and the
incredible way in which thesepeople operated.
You can learn a lot from thisstuff.
You can learn a lot frompeople's lives, and so for me,
(05:18):
growing up in a relativelymodest family, my parents were
first generation Americans fromItalian immigrants and my father
was conversant in all theromance languages and he was
also a warrior.
He was a World War II Marine inthe Aviator Division and
(05:39):
mortality rate was very high.
The fact that he came home bythe grace of God, I'm here, and
my brothers as well.
And he had one principle thathe brought us up with the up at
0600 and ready for company 0600.
And so the thought was that youknow, you were dressed, you
(06:02):
were prepared to be there forpeople.
He taught me to listen and Isaid to him how'd you learn all
these languages?
Well, he knew Italian, so itwas easy to kind of.
But he said if you're speakingSpanish or you're listening to
someone speak Portuguese or evenFrench, he goes in these
neighborhoods just being heard,understood, know that you're
(06:23):
gotten.
That's the most important thingyou can give somebody.
And I grew up with that.
I grew up with an understandingthat it mattered.
It mattered that people getlistened to, that you remember
their stories and that you couldplay that back.
So for me, I think throughoutmy life and my career, I started
(06:46):
out an entrepreneur.
I've always been a person thatlistens to other people.
I love stories.
My husband always says Ieavesdrop in restaurants, I
listen to the table and he goeswell, do you want to go over
there and sit with those peopleat the time?
I'm fascinated.
I'm fascinated.
So I think you learn a lot fromlistening and I do think you
(07:08):
also learn what it is thatreally makes people tick and, as
a leader, you need tounderstand that.
You need to be able to readthat room as well as you read a
spreadsheet.
Dr. Pelè (07:22):
You know it's interesting that you have sort
of focused in on listening,because of course, there are
lots of people who've writtenabout active listening and
different strategies forlistening.
But I think that, you know,when I remember certain leaders
that I've worked with, I knowthere's this anxiousness to want
to speak and to influence andto tell people what to do, and
(07:46):
it's like, wow, you couldactually do these things even
more powerfully by doing it theother way around, by listening.
That seems to be what I'mhearing from your approach.
Is that correct?
Rose Fass (07:56):
Yeah, you know, it's very interesting.
One of the emotionalintelligence books, the first
one that I read.
It was so formulaic and Ithought, wow, we're talking
about emotion and we've got aformula for it.
We're active listening.
There's a formula, exactly.
I'm proud to say that I'vewritten two books.
One is the chocolateconversation, my older book, and
the newest one to be releasedis the leadership conversation.
(08:19):
Both of these books you can seethem on the shelf there's
stories.
There's stories.
They're not just formulas.
You know, we have tools in themand we call ourselves the Howe
Company and you do learn Howe.
Dr. Pelè (08:32):
But there's stories.
Rose Fass (08:33):
they're wonderful stories and those stories
communicate in a way that allowpeople to feel like they're
having an experience.
So we've got chapters like Gothere, you know that famous
thing Don't Go there when peopletell me that I'm like packed
(08:53):
and ready to roll, because itmeans that this isn't
discussable.
Something's wrong.
Don't say it.
And in business, we have to beable to find ways to have a
conflicted conversation.
I have a chapter calledAddicted to Relevance.
(09:13):
Why is it important for you tobe relevant?
You're very relevant.
You know.
You were kind enough to tell meyour age before we got started
and it made me feel a littlebetter.
I'm 74 years old.
I like to think of myself asstill pretty relevant.
Can I help people grow?
Can I help them scale theirleadership and management
(09:33):
practice?
Can I help them be moreproductive?
These are things that so theaddicted to relevance Stephen
Jobs, was addicted to relevance.
I speak about that.
I speak about the fact that wenever knew we needed a thousand
songs in our packet.
Now we can't live without it.
So there are many things that Italk about in this book that
(09:56):
help people to understand thatthere are ways in which the
conversation can literallytransform your company.
Dr. Pelè (10:07):
You talk about.
In fact, the subtitle of yourbook is Make Bold Change One
Conversation At A Time, you know.
I think that I would love toknow the how of that.
You mentioned that you're thehow company.
I like that tagline, by the way.
I'd like to know the how ofthat.
A lot of people, when writingbooks, they have the challenge
(10:28):
and I've done it myself, so Iunderstand this challenge.
They have the challenge thatthey've got to package and
simplify what they're sharing ina way that people can sort of
follow.
Do you have some nuggets youcan drop that?
Give us some steps on how touse leadership conversations to
build culture, to createinfluence and so on.
How would you do this?
Rose Fass (10:51):
So first I'd like to say that the that particular
phrase came from someone that Iworked with for many years.
It's a very famous CEO, billMcNermitt, and I want to put a
head off to him.
He endorsed my first book andhe said Rose has been the person
that knows how to make boldchange one conversation at a
(11:13):
time.
And Bill McNermitt is CEO ofServiceNow.
He's always on NBC and Kramerand all those places, and he was
one of those guys that could dothat.
So I wanted just an earlyfriend, colleague and mentor and
I put it out there.
I developed this framework thattalked about the technical,
(11:35):
social and political spheres.
In the technical sphere, drPili, it's what I know.
What I know In the socialsphere, it's who I know.
And in the political sphere it'swho knows me.
And in business you have tobuild that frame across all
(12:00):
three spheres.
Most people come in, they comeout of Harvard, they're
brilliant, they go into businessand they operate purely in that
technical sphere sharing theirknowledge, their know-how, their
experience, all of that.
People who operate in the socialsphere multiply a little bit of
that by putting things in acontext, by connecting with
(12:22):
others, by finding ways in whichthey can express the particular
idea or ways in which they wantthings done, whether they're
talking to a full auditorium orthey're having one-on-one
conversation in an office or onZoom remotely.
It's connecting the content tothe person and then bringing the
(12:47):
person to the content.
You can't do it by justhammering out the content in the
technical sphere, the politicalsphere, which people go oh, I
hate that Everybody's toopolitical today.
In fact they're not political,in fact they're horrible at it,
because posturing is not thesame as positioning.
(13:07):
And true, true politicalstanding is when a person can
position themselves in a realway.
And a CEO who has the capacityto position what they're saying,
or any leader in a way thatpeople can relate to it, they
(13:32):
understand why are you takingthat position?
What's the context we're livingin?
What business problems are wesolving?
Whatever On the public stage,you saw Zelinsky do it perfectly
when he was asked if he wantedan escape route and he said hey,
don't give me a ride, give meammunition so I can protect my
(13:54):
country because I'm the leaderand I'm going first.
You know that's not posturing.
Dr. Pelè (14:00):
That's not posturing.
Rose Fass (14:02):
And we see a lot of posturing today.
So the how of this is to alwayslook at your conversations and
saying am I covering all three?
Am I a credible expert in thetechnical sphere?
Am I a valued colleague?
In the social sphere, do peoplesee me as a team player?
Not only am I credible, but I'malso approachable.
(14:25):
And in the political sphere, amI an opinion shaper?
Do people want to hear what Ihave to say?
So those are the hows and I gothrough this quite extensively
in the book and it's a simpleframework.
You have a lot of techies.
I know you're a softwarespecialist, but I have a lot of
(14:47):
techies in IT.
Now that write it all down,because it's a little formula
for them.
Dr. Pelè (14:55):
Well, you know, as I listen to it, it is very easy to
follow it.
You know, I mean you've gotyour three buckets your
technical, your social and yourpolitical and you could spend
some good time just working onthose things, just mastering
that.
You do talk, in your body ofknowledge really, though, about
the idea that leaders need toshift from what they can do to
(15:17):
influence others, meaning I gotto get my technical and my
social and my political rightwhat they can do to what they
can do to listen.
Can we talk about somestrategies around the listening
side, because that, I think, isprobably harder for people to
even get their minds around.
Rose Fass (15:34):
You and I had a pre-conversation before we got
on this call and youacknowledged the fact that I
love music and it immediatelyconnected me to you.
I acknowledged the fact thatyou were in software because you
told me something about that.
When you acknowledge thatsomeone has shared something
(15:55):
with you, I always say to myhusband can you build off of
what I just said?
Because what we see today isnot conversation, we see dueling
monologues, and a dialoguerequires the acknowledgement of
what the other person has shared.
(16:16):
So I believe if we acknowledgemore than advocate, we can get
people gathered around us.
And it's such a simple tool.
It's like, I think to myself.
People get worried when they'reon a panel or they're going to
(16:36):
be making a presentation and Ialways say well, why are you
worried?
I just want to make sure I knowwhat to say.
I said don't worry about whatyou're going to say, ask
questions.
There you go, listen.
Dr. Pelè (16:50):
Yes.
Rose Fass (16:51):
And when you listen, feed back what you've heard.
Dr. Pelè (16:54):
Yeah.
Rose Fass (16:55):
Sound smarter than everybody in the room.
Dr. Pelè (16:58):
Because you're relevant.
Yes, yes, I have to say I'mtaking notes and I just really
love.
No, I'm serious.
Let me tell you some of mynotes.
You have some powerful sayingswhich I hope you've copywritten.
First of all, check this oneout, because posturing is not
the same as positioning.
That's deep.
(17:19):
Here's another one Acknowledgemore than you advocate, also
deep.
I'm going to keep writing themdown.
So let's just get maybe alittle bit into the maybe the
negative side of this.
Why is it that it's hard forpeople to get their heads around
some of these topics you'veshared?
(17:40):
I mean, is there a mindsetchallenge with that leader
person where she wakes up in themorning and has her priorities
about the business and what'sgot to happen and therefore,
what are you talking about?
Emotions, what are you talkingabout listening.
I have no time for this.
Now give me your perspective onwhy some of this stuff is hard
to implement in organizations.
Rose Fass (18:02):
I think it begins with fear Not being enough.
We all bio out of the wounds ofour moms with our brilliance
and our muddy shoes, and, if wecan understand that, nobody
there are no perfect people inthe world other than the one
that came down for a littlewhile and tried to demonstrate,
(18:22):
through the masters, our way oflife, the lack of a spiritual
connection.
And I'm not speaking aboutreligion.
I'm speaking about knowing thatthere are power greater than
yourself.
But there is a plan that thisuniverse has a reason for you to
be here, and we're not here tobe a big piece of stuff.
(18:42):
We're here to plug into a worldand be with one another and
make the progress we need tomake to become the people we
need to be.
So when you have out of bed inthe morning and you're not
thinking about being a big pieceof stuff or what's this one
going to think about me?
Or do I have the approval orvalidation?
(19:04):
I guess, as you get older, youstart to realize that it's the
things that people remember thatyou've actually contributed to
their lives that matter.
It's not all the stuff that youhired, accumulated, that
knowledge.
You have all of this.
You know, when my mom passed,my younger brother brought me to
(19:28):
his garage and he had herbelongings all in these little
boxes and I saw the little redcoat sticking out and I remember
the tears just dripping downbecause my mother, that little
bit of stuff that was left aftera whole life of my mother
living in beautiful homes andserving wonderful dinners, what
(19:49):
I remembered most was she coulddo more over a cup of tea,
listening and caring and beingthere for people than all that
mattered, because that's whatshe took with her to heaven, not
all this stuff that she hadaccumulated.
And so I felt that peace whenmy mother passed on her 95th
(20:12):
year, four days short of her96th birthday, on Mother's Day
in 2020, because she passed withpeace.
She knew she was there.
She raised a family.
She was there for her friends,for her family.
She wasn't educated, didn't goto college, was there and every
(20:35):
time you came home from school,that cup of tea was there and
that listening ear and it wasthere for everyone.
I learned a lot from that.
I learned a lot from that, so Ithink that's the thing that we
have to remember when we'rehopping out of bed and have our
little laundry list and ourpriorities and all the rest of
it.
When you leave this earth,you're not taking any of that
(20:56):
with you.
What you're taking with you isyour progress mm-hmm and what?
you've done for others mm-hmm.
Dr. Pelè (21:06):
You know I have to say you're lucky I didn't get all
teary-eyed in that little storyyou're sharing there.
Thank you very much, because Iwas like, oh, she's taking me
there.
But I'll tell you I have I havea strong connection to, with
the idea that we have to bepresent here because this life
is so short.
Yeah, this, this life is soshort.
(21:28):
You know, you talk about theidea that leadership happens in
the conversations.
Okay, you know, if you askanyone PhD school, all the way
down to the person on the streetwhat is leadership, they'll
tell you everything from hey,it's leadership is influence.
Or if nobody's following youand you're taking a walk, then
you're just taking a walk,you're not a leader, something
(21:51):
like that.
You know, everybody's got adefinition for leadership, but
you say leadership is in theconversations.
If we could switch topics alittle bit to the idea of
culture and how a culture isbuilt in an organization and how
employees what they actuallywant from their day-to-day
experiences, how can leadershipconversations sort of connect
(22:13):
with that and make that happen?
You know, a lot of people say,well, culture, it's this thing I
can't see, you know, and yetit's the thing that drives out
our performance, our success,it's everything.
How do we take this idea andreally make it happen
organization-wide?
Rose Fass (22:29):
yeah.
So I had a very dear friendthat I met along the way.
She's an anthropologist, josephplayed the harp, her family was
symphony musicians.
But she said to me she was ananthropologist PhD.
And she said to me Dr SusanAnderson, so wonderful, living
in Austin.
Hmm, rose, culture is the waywe do things around here.
(22:50):
So you try to do a bunch ofstuff, but at the end of the day
, she traveled with the PeaceCorps, she watched tribes, she
did everything.
Culture is the way we do thingsaround here.
I have a young man that I hireda lot of years ago, 15 years ago
, and he came to me and said youknow, I'm a mechanic.
I'm not educated, I, but I'mreally great with technology.
(23:14):
And we gave him a shot.
I had a founding partner, gavinMcMahon, and he and I met with
him.
He was British and so was Gavin, and we gave him a shot and I
just officiated his wedding, hmm, and he said to me it would be
my honor if you would be able todo this.
And I said to him no, it's mineand it's my first, because I
(23:37):
built a culture and we built aculture and fast-forward, where
we listen.
So if I pick up the phone and Icall someone who's you know, an
individual contributor, and Isay are you interruptible?
Just a simple thing, becauseI'm not the big piece of stuff.
Picking up the phone, callingyou and now you talk to it and
tell me what I need.
Are you interruptible?
(23:58):
Giving every person the respectand dignity they deserve to be
in your company because they aregiving of themselves to help
you grow your business?
That's a very important thingto remember.
So when every human being istreated with that level of
(24:21):
dignity and respect, they'regonna come back.
I don't have people leaving mycompany.
I don't.
I have them hanging around andthey don't make the most amount
of money, but we give time off.
We allow people to live theirlives.
We have good work, familybalance.
When we need them, they'rethere.
(24:42):
We do a week reboot in Augustin addition to vacation, so half
the company goes off the firsttwo weeks and the other half the
company goes off the last twoweeks and you're responsible to
get coverage.
We built a culture where peoplefeel like they're valued and
that they're treated fairly andthey've got the opportunity to
(25:06):
bring their ideas forth andwe're gonna work with them on.
I did this to be honest withyou, dr Paley, because I lived
in a corporate world where thatwasn't happening where people
were shut down, hiding in theircubes, didn't know.
You know what are they gonna donow?
It was survival, and it wassurviving rather than thriving.
(25:26):
And I saw the day that Istarted this business.
Because I was a big corporateexecutive, I did it all, but
when we started this company Isaid, no, we're gonna have a
culture where people feel likethey met and every contribution
matters.
It doesn't you know?
And that whole thought that, asleaders, what can we do?
(25:49):
Every conversation that youhave, either leadership is
happening in that conversationor not yeah because when you're
dismissive Arrogant, you tellsomeone, can I say this?
and you say no, no, you can'twe're done with this now and
I've actually heard this kind ofstuff that that that just
(26:12):
absolutely unacceptable.
You know you have to givepeople the opportunity to show
up.
Dr. Pelè (26:20):
Mmm-hmm, Mmm.
You know I have to say Ipromise y'all is gonna write
some more stuff down.
I just wrote one that I just Ijust love.
Um.
So you say that I love this andI hope this is this.
Is this has to be in your book,right?
Are you interruptible?
Is it in your book?
Rose Fass (26:39):
I don't know.
I do believe that I Allude toit, but it is something that I
talk about in the book as aconcept is a concept read others
.
I Always do that and I learnedthat from dr Susan Anderson.
She would always pick up thephone and say are you
interruptible?
Yeah, I thought, lovely way todo this, it's so good.
(27:01):
Yeah, or pick up a phone.
Even when I call a friend and Isay I'm bad time because I
don't want to just sell them tostop eating their dinner, to
talk to me.
Dr. Pelè (27:11):
Yeah, yeah, good time, bad time.
Rose Fass (27:14):
It's just that whole.
And being approachable, drBailey, you know If you walk
around with this sort of veryformal, you know no one's gonna
want to Approach you.
You got that.
Keep off the grass, and so whatif you're the smartest person
in the room?
Yeah, you know, yeah that in ayou know less than whatever
(27:34):
you're paying, you'll get on thesubway and get downtown.
That's not gonna help you.
It is.
It is your vulnerability, yourapproachability, likeability,
and At the same time, you cancarry yourself with dignity and
you earn your way by what youbring to the party.
Dr. Pelè (27:56):
Mmm, yeah, what a, what a powerful Little takeaway
that people can practice likeright now, right after listening
to this.
And I'll just say this I'vebeen in corporations where
there's a culture where peoplemight say got a minute.
Or there's another culturewhere people might say are you
free?
And the interesting is thething is that none of neither of
those carries the sort ofimplied respect and dignity, as
(28:21):
are you interruptible.
Rose Fass (28:22):
You know, it's almost like a.
Dr. Pelè (28:24):
I'm vulnerable.
I care about you.
It's.
It's a whole different level.
Anyway, let's let me ask you aquestion about Fast forward.
I've been waiting to ask youthis because I love the name.
I I hear what it sounds like,but I know it's spelled f as s
forward for your organization.
Tell us about your company.
What does fast forward mean?
(28:44):
How'd you get the name?
Rose Fass (28:46):
Yeah, so when we were starting the company.
As I said, gavin McMahon and Iworked together at Gartner with
Bill McDermott and I suggestedthat he joined me and and he
said I can you do this?
I said I think so.
So I went to estate water andthis wonderful man who was head
of research and development ofShahan Nazar he had worked with
(29:11):
me before and we were proposingto do some work with him in an
acquisition and he said Okay, soshould I send Gartner?
And I said, well, actually, no,we've started our own company.
And he's like you mean you,you're not there anymore.
No, no, he started off, what'sthe name of your company?
I said it's a surprise.
(29:32):
Yeah, so I was driving out toEast Hampton to visit some
friends and I went to bed thatnight and I had a dream that I
was walking through a forestkind of thing, and this
gentleman was walking ahead ofme, or this apparition was
walking ahead of me and clearingthe way, and I finally caught
(29:55):
up with him and he said come on,fast forward.
And I got up in the morning andI wrote the name in a lipstick
pencil.
Dr. Pelè (30:04):
Mmm I.
Rose Fass (30:06):
Had tried some other fast names fast lane, fast track
none of which they were alltaken.
So I thought last forward.
That's interesting, because weneed to move forward, we need to
be aware of our presence, wherewe are, in the presence, what
the past just taught us so wecan move forward.
And Sure enough, the namewasn't taken at the ST was.
(30:29):
But then I thought what awonderful play on my name your
last name exactly and and that'show it ended up being fast
forward consulting group, and Igot it in a dream.
Dr. Pelè (30:42):
Oh, that is that another powerful story.
Thank you for sharing that.
So, rose, what are you excitedabout next?
What's happening now?
How can people get your book?
Tell us all about what you'reexcited about now and how people
can read you.
Rose Fass (30:55):
Yeah.
So now I'm at that stage inlife where I'm avoiding the
founders dilemma and I'veannounced two CEOs One, gavin,
who had been with me since thebeginning.
The other, david Frost, whoI've known since he was a young
man, who's a powerful humanbeing with gorgeous Laura and
(31:18):
beautiful light, and they are coCEOs and I've taken on a
chairman role.
They are now Running theday-to-day and I'm involved in a
kind of an oversight, alongwith my oldest and dearest
friend and best colleague in theworld, sally Zeta, who's a vice
chair, who started at Xerox 45years ago, and the book is now
(31:42):
becoming a platform for me to goand spend time With leaders and
C-level executives.
In particular, I coach a numberof C-level executives To kind
of take the wisdom of the last45 years that I've been in
business and share what I can tohelp them become the leaders
(32:03):
they can be, and I'm stilllearning, participating on these
podcasts.
I work with a number of clientsand I very much enjoy our
Clients, but this is a time inmy life when I am now in my
wisdom years and I'm hoping thatI get to enjoy those and and
(32:26):
help the two gentlemen that aretaking on my position To be the
kind of leaders that listen,that care, they give people the
benefit of the doubt, that don'tjump up the ladder difference
you know all the things thatI've learned in my life and just
bring out the very best in ourcompany and that's what we're
(32:48):
hoping for.
And we've got Wonderful youngwomen now that are coming up the
the the scale.
I've got one woman who's comeback.
Pam Jennings, a Yale graduate,20 years in business, was with
us 20 years ago.
She's now joined us.
So lots of good thingshappening, lots of good things.
And the leadership conversationand the chocolate conversation
(33:10):
are fun reads.
Gonna bore you their fun reads.
You can actually take that withyou at night.
Dr. Pelè (33:17):
And what's the best way for people to contact you
online?
Would it be LinkedIn, which I'mgonna have on the show.
Rose Fass (33:23):
It is a perfect way to contact me and I will always
respond and Just love having youas part of my extended Family
and I want to keep talking toyou and let us continue the
conversation.
You know we need to keep havingthese conversations.
Dr. Pelè (33:41):
Absolutely, rose.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom, sharing your, your
core strategy of how theconversation is actually that
key to leadership.
And thank you for being on theprofitable happiness.
Thank you.
Rose Fass (33:54):
Thank you so much.
It's my great pleasure.
Dr. Pelè (33:58):
Thanks for tuning in to the profitable happiness
podcast.
For more episodes, visit drPillay.
Calm and remember Get happyfirst and success will follow.
Hello happy people, welcome to the Profitable
Happiness Podcast.
Hello everyone, this is Dr Pelèwith the Profitable Happiness
Podcast, and today it is mypleasure to introduce you to
Rose Fass, who is the founderand chairman of Fass Forward.
(00:21):
She's the author of the bookThe Leadership Conversation, and
let me tell you something I'mso excited to learn today.
It's a simple idea that whenleaders are trying to influence
other people, it's actually notabout influencing as much as it
is about listening to the people.
So, Rose, it is a pleasure tomeet you.
(00:42):
How are you doing today?
Rose Fass (00:43):
Actually, quite well, the sun is shining, your face
looks like you're shining andyou've got me smiling, so I
think it's a good day.
It's a good day, awesome,awesome.
Dr. Pelè (00:54):
All right.
Well, Rose, you know we talkeda little bit about some of the
topics that you're going toshare with us today, but I think
the one topic I want to startwith really is what is the
central challenge, what is theproblem that is really to be
solved in these companies?
Yeah, and it's the leadershipgap.
Rose Fass (01:12):
We have a significant leadership gap.
We have it on the public stagewith our government officials.
We have it in corporations.
We have it in businesses acrossthe world.
There's a leadership gap.
People there's no shortage ofpeople managing work.
There's no shortage of peoplespending a lot of time on masks
(01:35):
and getting things done, talkingnonstop and telling people your
point of view, but there's abig shortage in really leading
others and providing for others,a way in which they can raise
the bar level up and become thepeople they need to be.
So, if I have to say, the onesingle thing that has completely
(02:01):
changed my life is theopportunity to focus, with
C-level executives all the waythrough the frontline management
, on the leadership gap.
Dr. Pelè (02:12):
You know, it's interesting when you share that
focus, the idea of a leadershipgap, because so many people have
titles like director, vicepresident, executive, vice
president, and yet there's aleadership gap.
Is this sort of an insidiousproblem that organizations
aren't fully aware of?
Rose Fass (02:32):
And I don't know that .
They're not aware of it.
I know some wonderful leadersthat are aware of it.
They don't know how to closethat gap.
You've said it perfectly Atitle doesn't make you a leader.
You know what I always loved InGame of Thrones?
The little boy king that was sopersnickety and awful.
And the grandfather comes upand the little boy goes I'm the
(02:53):
king.
And he says if you have to tellpeople you're the king, you're
not the king.
So I think it's veryinteresting when people bring up
the fact that I'm in charge of,or I'm the EVP of, or I'm this.
If you've ever had to identifythat way, you've already lost.
(03:14):
Nobody wants large and incharge.
Dr. Pelè (03:20):
That is so powerful.
You know, when we first startedtalking, you shared with me a
little story about a musicianthat you went to see a few years
ago, and I was just so taken byyour passion around describing
the blues and the experiencethat you had.
I wonder can you take us backto who you are and what brought
(03:41):
you, through your lifeexperiences, to this idea of the
leadership conversation?
Rose Fass (03:47):
Well, if we talk about music and I'll spend a
minute on this my father playedthe harmonica and one of the
relatives I think that dad wastelling me about one of his
cousins and Bill Haley.
In the comments he sort ofwrote a couple of those songs,
one o'clock, two o'clock, threeo'clock, rock was piano player.
I had a cousin, jackie, whoused to play the sax late at
(04:09):
night and you could just sit andlisten to the tenor sax.
So music for me has always beena way to reach the heart
there's something about it.
I've had a lot of time inbusiness and I always say most
of my friends are in the artsbecause I have the opportunity
to change the channel and I loveentertaining people in my home.
(04:29):
I love playing music andlistening to it, and
particularly live music and theopportunity to understand that
there's so much of messagingthat goes on in music today,
even our rap artists.
They're telling it like it is.
They're having those leadershipconversations.
They're having it music andthey're sharing what we need to
(04:50):
be thinking about.
I think it's important tolisten.
Dr. Pelè (04:54):
I do.
Rose Fass (04:55):
And I think just reading business books is never
going to get you there.
There's a lot to be done withthat, but it's the stories on
Gates of Fire, a wonderful bookabout the Trojan Wars and the
incredible way in which thesepeople operated.
You can learn a lot from thisstuff.
You can learn a lot frompeople's lives, and so for me,
(05:18):
growing up in a relativelymodest family, my parents were
first generation Americans fromItalian immigrants and my father
was conversant in all theromance languages and he was
also a warrior.
He was a World War II Marine inthe Aviator Division and
(05:39):
mortality rate was very high.
The fact that he came home bythe grace of God, I'm here, and
my brothers as well.
And he had one principle thathe brought us up with the up at
0600 and ready for company 0600.
And so the thought was that youknow, you were dressed, you
(06:02):
were prepared to be there forpeople.
He taught me to listen and Isaid to him how'd you learn all
these languages?
Well, he knew Italian, so itwas easy to kind of.
But he said if you're speakingSpanish or you're listening to
someone speak Portuguese or evenFrench, he goes in these
neighborhoods just being heard,understood, know that you're
(06:23):
gotten.
That's the most important thingyou can give somebody.
And I grew up with that.
I grew up with an understandingthat it mattered.
It mattered that people getlistened to, that you remember
their stories and that you couldplay that back.
So for me, I think throughoutmy life and my career, I started
(06:46):
out an entrepreneur.
I've always been a person thatlistens to other people.
I love stories.
My husband always says Ieavesdrop in restaurants, I
listen to the table and he goeswell, do you want to go over
there and sit with those peopleat the time?
I'm fascinated.
I'm fascinated.
So I think you learn a lot fromlistening and I do think you
(07:08):
also learn what it is thatreally makes people tick and, as
a leader, you need tounderstand that.
You need to be able to readthat room as well as you read a
spreadsheet.
Dr. Pelè (07:22):
You know it's interesting that you have sort
of focused in on listening,because of course, there are
lots of people who've writtenabout active listening and
different strategies forlistening.
But I think that, you know,when I remember certain leaders
that I've worked with, I knowthere's this anxiousness to want
to speak and to influence andto tell people what to do, and
(07:46):
it's like, wow, you couldactually do these things even
more powerfully by doing it theother way around, by listening.
That seems to be what I'mhearing from your approach.
Is that correct?
Rose Fass (07:56):
Yeah, you know, it's very interesting.
One of the emotionalintelligence books, the first
one that I read.
It was so formulaic and Ithought, wow, we're talking
about emotion and we've got aformula for it.
We're active listening.
There's a formula, exactly.
I'm proud to say that I'vewritten two books.
One is the chocolateconversation, my older book, and
the newest one to be releasedis the leadership conversation.
(08:19):
Both of these books you can seethem on the shelf there's
stories.
There's stories.
They're not just formulas.
You know, we have tools in themand we call ourselves the Howe
Company and you do learn Howe.
Dr. Pelè (08:32):
But there's stories.
Rose Fass (08:33):
they're wonderful stories and those stories
communicate in a way that allowpeople to feel like they're
having an experience.
So we've got chapters like Gothere, you know that famous
thing Don't Go there when peopletell me that I'm like packed
(08:53):
and ready to roll, because itmeans that this isn't
discussable.
Something's wrong.
Don't say it.
And in business, we have to beable to find ways to have a
conflicted conversation.
I have a chapter calledAddicted to Relevance.
(09:13):
Why is it important for you tobe relevant?
You're very relevant.
You know.
You were kind enough to tell meyour age before we got started
and it made me feel a littlebetter.
I'm 74 years old.
I like to think of myself asstill pretty relevant.
Can I help people grow?
Can I help them scale theirleadership and management
(09:33):
practice?
Can I help them be moreproductive?
These are things that so theaddicted to relevance Stephen
Jobs, was addicted to relevance.
I speak about that.
I speak about the fact that wenever knew we needed a thousand
songs in our packet.
Now we can't live without it.
So there are many things that Italk about in this book that
(09:56):
help people to understand thatthere are ways in which the
conversation can literallytransform your company.
Dr. Pelè (10:07):
You talk about.
In fact, the subtitle of yourbook is Make Bold Change One
Conversation At A Time, you know.
I think that I would love toknow the how of that.
You mentioned that you're thehow company.
I like that tagline, by the way.
I'd like to know the how ofthat.
A lot of people, when writingbooks, they have the challenge
(10:28):
and I've done it myself, so Iunderstand this challenge.
They have the challenge thatthey've got to package and
simplify what they're sharing ina way that people can sort of
follow.
Do you have some nuggets youcan drop that?
Give us some steps on how touse leadership conversations to
build culture, to createinfluence and so on.
How would you do this?
Rose Fass (10:51):
So first I'd like to say that the that particular
phrase came from someone that Iworked with for many years.
It's a very famous CEO, billMcNermitt, and I want to put a
head off to him.
He endorsed my first book andhe said Rose has been the person
that knows how to make boldchange one conversation at a
(11:13):
time.
And Bill McNermitt is CEO ofServiceNow.
He's always on NBC and Kramerand all those places, and he was
one of those guys that could dothat.
So I wanted just an earlyfriend, colleague and mentor and
I put it out there.
I developed this framework thattalked about the technical,
(11:35):
social and political spheres.
In the technical sphere, drPili, it's what I know.
What I know In the socialsphere, it's who I know.
And in the political sphere it'swho knows me.
And in business you have tobuild that frame across all
(12:00):
three spheres.
Most people come in, they comeout of Harvard, they're
brilliant, they go into businessand they operate purely in that
technical sphere sharing theirknowledge, their know-how, their
experience, all of that.
People who operate in the socialsphere multiply a little bit of
that by putting things in acontext, by connecting with
(12:22):
others, by finding ways in whichthey can express the particular
idea or ways in which they wantthings done, whether they're
talking to a full auditorium orthey're having one-on-one
conversation in an office or onZoom remotely.
It's connecting the content tothe person and then bringing the
(12:47):
person to the content.
You can't do it by justhammering out the content in the
technical sphere, the politicalsphere, which people go oh, I
hate that Everybody's toopolitical today.
In fact they're not political,in fact they're horrible at it,
because posturing is not thesame as positioning.
(13:07):
And true, true politicalstanding is when a person can
position themselves in a realway.
And a CEO who has the capacityto position what they're saying,
or any leader in a way thatpeople can relate to it, they
(13:32):
understand why are you takingthat position?
What's the context we're livingin?
What business problems are wesolving?
Whatever On the public stage,you saw Zelinsky do it perfectly
when he was asked if he wantedan escape route and he said hey,
don't give me a ride, give meammunition so I can protect my
(13:54):
country because I'm the leaderand I'm going first.
You know that's not posturing.
Dr. Pelè (14:00):
That's not posturing.
Rose Fass (14:02):
And we see a lot of posturing today.
So the how of this is to alwayslook at your conversations and
saying am I covering all three?
Am I a credible expert in thetechnical sphere?
Am I a valued colleague?
In the social sphere, do peoplesee me as a team player?
Not only am I credible, but I'malso approachable.
(14:25):
And in the political sphere, amI an opinion shaper?
Do people want to hear what Ihave to say?
So those are the hows and I gothrough this quite extensively
in the book and it's a simpleframework.
You have a lot of techies.
I know you're a softwarespecialist, but I have a lot of
(14:47):
techies in IT.
Now that write it all down,because it's a little formula
for them.
Dr. Pelè (14:55):
Well, you know, as I listen to it, it is very easy to
follow it.
You know, I mean you've gotyour three buckets your
technical, your social and yourpolitical and you could spend
some good time just working onthose things, just mastering
that.
You do talk, in your body ofknowledge really, though, about
the idea that leaders need toshift from what they can do to
(15:17):
influence others, meaning I gotto get my technical and my
social and my political rightwhat they can do to what they
can do to listen.
Can we talk about somestrategies around the listening
side, because that, I think, isprobably harder for people to
even get their minds around.
Rose Fass (15:34):
You and I had a pre-conversation before we got
on this call and youacknowledged the fact that I
love music and it immediatelyconnected me to you.
I acknowledged the fact thatyou were in software because you
told me something about that.
When you acknowledge thatsomeone has shared something
(15:55):
with you, I always say to myhusband can you build off of
what I just said?
Because what we see today isnot conversation, we see dueling
monologues, and a dialoguerequires the acknowledgement of
what the other person has shared.
(16:16):
So I believe if we acknowledgemore than advocate, we can get
people gathered around us.
And it's such a simple tool.
It's like, I think to myself.
People get worried when they'reon a panel or they're going to
(16:36):
be making a presentation and Ialways say well, why are you
worried?
I just want to make sure I knowwhat to say.
I said don't worry about whatyou're going to say, ask
questions.
There you go, listen.
Dr. Pelè (16:50):
Yes.
Rose Fass (16:51):
And when you listen, feed back what you've heard.
Dr. Pelè (16:54):
Yeah.
Rose Fass (16:55):
Sound smarter than everybody in the room.
Dr. Pelè (16:58):
Because you're relevant.
Yes, yes, I have to say I'mtaking notes and I just really
love.
No, I'm serious.
Let me tell you some of mynotes.
You have some powerful sayingswhich I hope you've copywritten.
First of all, check this oneout, because posturing is not
the same as positioning.
That's deep.
(17:19):
Here's another one Acknowledgemore than you advocate, also
deep.
I'm going to keep writing themdown.
So let's just get maybe alittle bit into the maybe the
negative side of this.
Why is it that it's hard forpeople to get their heads around
some of these topics you'veshared?
(17:40):
I mean, is there a mindsetchallenge with that leader
person where she wakes up in themorning and has her priorities
about the business and what'sgot to happen and therefore,
what are you talking about?
Emotions, what are you talkingabout listening.
I have no time for this.
Now give me your perspective onwhy some of this stuff is hard
to implement in organizations.
Rose Fass (18:02):
I think it begins with fear Not being enough.
We all bio out of the wounds ofour moms with our brilliance
and our muddy shoes, and, if wecan understand that, nobody
there are no perfect people inthe world other than the one
that came down for a littlewhile and tried to demonstrate,
(18:22):
through the masters, our way oflife, the lack of a spiritual
connection.
And I'm not speaking aboutreligion.
I'm speaking about knowing thatthere are power greater than
yourself.
But there is a plan that thisuniverse has a reason for you to
be here, and we're not here tobe a big piece of stuff.
(18:42):
We're here to plug into a worldand be with one another and
make the progress we need tomake to become the people we
need to be.
So when you have out of bed inthe morning and you're not
thinking about being a big pieceof stuff or what's this one
going to think about me?
Or do I have the approval orvalidation?
(19:04):
I guess, as you get older, youstart to realize that it's the
things that people remember thatyou've actually contributed to
their lives that matter.
It's not all the stuff that youhired, accumulated, that
knowledge.
You have all of this.
You know, when my mom passed,my younger brother brought me to
(19:28):
his garage and he had herbelongings all in these little
boxes and I saw the little redcoat sticking out and I remember
the tears just dripping downbecause my mother, that little
bit of stuff that was left aftera whole life of my mother
living in beautiful homes andserving wonderful dinners, what
(19:49):
I remembered most was she coulddo more over a cup of tea,
listening and caring and beingthere for people than all that
mattered, because that's whatshe took with her to heaven, not
all this stuff that she hadaccumulated.
And so I felt that peace whenmy mother passed on her 95th
(20:12):
year, four days short of her96th birthday, on Mother's Day
in 2020, because she passed withpeace.
She knew she was there.
She raised a family.
She was there for her friends,for her family.
She wasn't educated, didn't goto college, was there and every
(20:35):
time you came home from school,that cup of tea was there and
that listening ear and it wasthere for everyone.
I learned a lot from that.
I learned a lot from that, so Ithink that's the thing that we
have to remember when we'rehopping out of bed and have our
little laundry list and ourpriorities and all the rest of
it.
When you leave this earth,you're not taking any of that
(20:56):
with you.
What you're taking with you isyour progress mm-hmm and what?
you've done for others mm-hmm.
Dr. Pelè (21:06):
You know I have to say you're lucky I didn't get all
teary-eyed in that little storyyou're sharing there.
Thank you very much, because Iwas like, oh, she's taking me
there.
But I'll tell you I have I havea strong connection to, with
the idea that we have to bepresent here because this life
is so short.
Yeah, this, this life is soshort.
(21:28):
You know, you talk about theidea that leadership happens in
the conversations.
Okay, you know, if you askanyone PhD school, all the way
down to the person on the streetwhat is leadership, they'll
tell you everything from hey,it's leadership is influence.
Or if nobody's following youand you're taking a walk, then
you're just taking a walk,you're not a leader, something
(21:51):
like that.
You know, everybody's got adefinition for leadership, but
you say leadership is in theconversations.
If we could switch topics alittle bit to the idea of
culture and how a culture isbuilt in an organization and how
employees what they actuallywant from their day-to-day
experiences, how can leadershipconversations sort of connect
(22:13):
with that and make that happen?
You know, a lot of people say,well, culture, it's this thing I
can't see, you know, and yetit's the thing that drives out
our performance, our success,it's everything.
How do we take this idea andreally make it happen
organization-wide?
Rose Fass (22:29):
yeah.
So I had a very dear friendthat I met along the way.
She's an anthropologist, josephplayed the harp, her family was
symphony musicians.
But she said to me she was ananthropologist PhD.
And she said to me Dr SusanAnderson, so wonderful, living
in Austin.
Hmm, rose, culture is the waywe do things around here.
(22:50):
So you try to do a bunch ofstuff, but at the end of the day
, she traveled with the PeaceCorps, she watched tribes, she
did everything.
Culture is the way we do thingsaround here.
I have a young man that I hireda lot of years ago, 15 years ago
, and he came to me and said youknow, I'm a mechanic.
I'm not educated, I, but I'mreally great with technology.
(23:14):
And we gave him a shot.
I had a founding partner, gavinMcMahon, and he and I met with
him.
He was British and so was Gavin, and we gave him a shot and I
just officiated his wedding, hmm, and he said to me it would be
my honor if you would be able todo this.
And I said to him no, it's mineand it's my first, because I
(23:37):
built a culture and we built aculture and fast-forward, where
we listen.
So if I pick up the phone and Icall someone who's you know, an
individual contributor, and Isay are you interruptible?
Just a simple thing, becauseI'm not the big piece of stuff.
Picking up the phone, callingyou and now you talk to it and
tell me what I need.
Are you interruptible?
(23:58):
Giving every person the respectand dignity they deserve to be
in your company because they aregiving of themselves to help
you grow your business?
That's a very important thingto remember.
So when every human being istreated with that level of
(24:21):
dignity and respect, they'regonna come back.
I don't have people leaving mycompany.
I don't.
I have them hanging around andthey don't make the most amount
of money, but we give time off.
We allow people to live theirlives.
We have good work, familybalance.
When we need them, they'rethere.
(24:42):
We do a week reboot in Augustin addition to vacation, so half
the company goes off the firsttwo weeks and the other half the
company goes off the last twoweeks and you're responsible to
get coverage.
We built a culture where peoplefeel like they're valued and
that they're treated fairly andthey've got the opportunity to
(25:06):
bring their ideas forth andwe're gonna work with them on.
I did this to be honest withyou, dr Paley, because I lived
in a corporate world where thatwasn't happening where people
were shut down, hiding in theircubes, didn't know.
You know what are they gonna donow?
It was survival, and it wassurviving rather than thriving.
(25:26):
And I saw the day that Istarted this business.
Because I was a big corporateexecutive, I did it all, but
when we started this company Isaid, no, we're gonna have a
culture where people feel likethey met and every contribution
matters.
It doesn't you know?
And that whole thought that, asleaders, what can we do?
(25:49):
Every conversation that youhave, either leadership is
happening in that conversationor not yeah because when you're
dismissive Arrogant, you tellsomeone, can I say this?
and you say no, no, you can'twe're done with this now and
I've actually heard this kind ofstuff that that that just
(26:12):
absolutely unacceptable.
You know you have to givepeople the opportunity to show
up.
Dr. Pelè (26:20):
Mmm-hmm, Mmm.
You know I have to say Ipromise y'all is gonna write
some more stuff down.
I just wrote one that I just Ijust love.
Um.
So you say that I love this andI hope this is this.
Is this has to be in your book,right?
Are you interruptible?
Is it in your book?
Rose Fass (26:39):
I don't know.
I do believe that I Allude toit, but it is something that I
talk about in the book as aconcept is a concept read others
.
I Always do that and I learnedthat from dr Susan Anderson.
She would always pick up thephone and say are you
interruptible?
Yeah, I thought, lovely way todo this, it's so good.
(27:01):
Yeah, or pick up a phone.
Even when I call a friend and Isay I'm bad time because I
don't want to just sell them tostop eating their dinner, to
talk to me.
Dr. Pelè (27:11):
Yeah, yeah, good time, bad time.
Rose Fass (27:14):
It's just that whole.
And being approachable, drBailey, you know If you walk
around with this sort of veryformal, you know no one's gonna
want to Approach you.
You got that.
Keep off the grass, and so whatif you're the smartest person
in the room?
Yeah, you know, yeah that in ayou know less than whatever
(27:34):
you're paying, you'll get on thesubway and get downtown.
That's not gonna help you.
It is.
It is your vulnerability, yourapproachability, likeability,
and At the same time, you cancarry yourself with dignity and
you earn your way by what youbring to the party.
Dr. Pelè (27:56):
Mmm, yeah, what a, what a powerful Little takeaway
that people can practice likeright now, right after listening
to this.
And I'll just say this I'vebeen in corporations where
there's a culture where peoplemight say got a minute.
Or there's another culturewhere people might say are you
free?
And the interesting is thething is that none of neither of
those carries the sort ofimplied respect and dignity, as
(28:21):
are you interruptible.
Rose Fass (28:22):
You know, it's almost like a.
Dr. Pelè (28:24):
I'm vulnerable.
I care about you.
It's.
It's a whole different level.
Anyway, let's let me ask you aquestion about Fast forward.
I've been waiting to ask youthis because I love the name.
I I hear what it sounds like,but I know it's spelled f as s
forward for your organization.
Tell us about your company.
What does fast forward mean?
(28:44):
How'd you get the name?
Rose Fass (28:46):
Yeah, so when we were starting the company.
As I said, gavin McMahon and Iworked together at Gartner with
Bill McDermott and I suggestedthat he joined me and and he
said I can you do this?
I said I think so.
So I went to estate water andthis wonderful man who was head
of research and development ofShahan Nazar he had worked with
(29:11):
me before and we were proposingto do some work with him in an
acquisition and he said Okay, soshould I send Gartner?
And I said, well, actually, no,we've started our own company.
And he's like you mean you,you're not there anymore.
No, no, he started off, what'sthe name of your company?
I said it's a surprise.
(29:32):
Yeah, so I was driving out toEast Hampton to visit some
friends and I went to bed thatnight and I had a dream that I
was walking through a forestkind of thing, and this
gentleman was walking ahead ofme, or this apparition was
walking ahead of me and clearingthe way, and I finally caught
(29:55):
up with him and he said come on,fast forward.
And I got up in the morning andI wrote the name in a lipstick
pencil.
Dr. Pelè (30:04):
Mmm I.
Rose Fass (30:06):
Had tried some other fast names fast lane, fast track
none of which they were alltaken.
So I thought last forward.
That's interesting, because weneed to move forward, we need to
be aware of our presence, wherewe are, in the presence, what
the past just taught us so wecan move forward.
And Sure enough, the namewasn't taken at the ST was.
(30:29):
But then I thought what awonderful play on my name your
last name exactly and and that'show it ended up being fast
forward consulting group, and Igot it in a dream.
Dr. Pelè (30:42):
Oh, that is that another powerful story.
Thank you for sharing that.
So, rose, what are you excitedabout next?
What's happening now?
How can people get your book?
Tell us all about what you'reexcited about now and how people
can read you.
Rose Fass (30:55):
Yeah.
So now I'm at that stage inlife where I'm avoiding the
founders dilemma and I'veannounced two CEOs One, gavin,
who had been with me since thebeginning.
The other, david Frost, whoI've known since he was a young
man, who's a powerful humanbeing with gorgeous Laura and
(31:18):
beautiful light, and they are coCEOs and I've taken on a
chairman role.
They are now Running theday-to-day and I'm involved in a
kind of an oversight, alongwith my oldest and dearest
friend and best colleague in theworld, sally Zeta, who's a vice
chair, who started at Xerox 45years ago, and the book is now
(31:42):
becoming a platform for me to goand spend time With leaders and
C-level executives.
In particular, I coach a numberof C-level executives To kind
of take the wisdom of the last45 years that I've been in
business and share what I can tohelp them become the leaders
(32:03):
they can be, and I'm stilllearning, participating on these
podcasts.
I work with a number of clientsand I very much enjoy our
Clients, but this is a time inmy life when I am now in my
wisdom years and I'm hoping thatI get to enjoy those and and
(32:26):
help the two gentlemen that aretaking on my position To be the
kind of leaders that listen,that care, they give people the
benefit of the doubt, that don'tjump up the ladder difference
you know all the things thatI've learned in my life and just
bring out the very best in ourcompany and that's what we're
(32:48):
hoping for.
And we've got Wonderful youngwomen now that are coming up the
the the scale.
I've got one woman who's comeback.
Pam Jennings, a Yale graduate,20 years in business, was with
us 20 years ago.
She's now joined us.
So lots of good thingshappening, lots of good things.
And the leadership conversationand the chocolate conversation
(33:10):
are fun reads.
Gonna bore you their fun reads.
You can actually take that withyou at night.
Dr. Pelè (33:17):
And what's the best way for people to contact you
online?
Would it be LinkedIn, which I'mgonna have on the show.
Rose Fass (33:23):
It is a perfect way to contact me and I will always
respond and Just love having youas part of my extended Family
and I want to keep talking toyou and let us continue the
conversation.
You know we need to keep havingthese conversations.
Dr. Pelè (33:41):
Absolutely, rose.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom, sharing your, your
core strategy of how theconversation is actually that
key to leadership.
And thank you for being on theprofitable happiness.
Thank you.
Rose Fass (33:54):
Thank you so much.
It's my great pleasure.
Dr. Pelè (33:58):
Thanks for tuning in to the profitable happiness
podcast.
For more episodes, visit drPillay.
Calm and remember Get happyfirst and success will follow.
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