October 10, 2023 • 43 mins
What if you could tap into the ancient philosophy of eudaimonic happiness to create a thriving, engaged and productive work culture?
That's exactly what we're discussing with Dr. Alise Cortez interviewing Dr. Pelè, in this eye-opening episode.
Drawing on the lessons of resilience, joy, and determination from his war-torn African upbringing, Dr. Pelè shares his belief that happiness is not a result of success but the precursor to it.
As we navigate through the episode, we uncover Dr. Pelè's unique "H.A.P.P.Y." strategy - a remarkable model that leverages software to foster happiness, appreciation, pride, purpose, and a 'yes' mentality within teams.
Don't miss this enlightening conversation - it might just hold the keys to transforming your work culture!
Connect with Dr. Pelè online here:
website: https://drpele.com
Software: https://profitablehappiness.com
Book: https://amzn.to/3HGSsy3
Music: https://drpele.com/music
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/drpele
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Pelè (00:00):
Hello happy people.
Welcome to the ProfitableHappiness Podcast.
Dr. Alise Cortez (00:07):
Dr.
Pelè, welcome to Working OnPurpose.
Dr. Pelè (00:11):
How are you, Dr Alise?
Thank you so much for theinvitation.
I'm so excited to be here.
Dr. Alise Cortez (00:17):
It's so wonderful to talk to you again.
Book in my day with you.
We started the day together at7 am my time in Seattle, and now
here we are, 3 pm my time inSeattle.
So welcome back, pelle.
It's the, it's Alise and DrPelle's show.
Dr. Pelè (00:32):
There, you go.
Dr. Alise Cortez (00:33):
So first let me just celebrate, as I like to
do.
Dr Pelle, you know both of usare authors and you know this is
the latest thing that youbrought into the world.
It's beautiful.
I've read it.
You know, as an author, I'malways amazed what it takes to
actually bring a book into theworld.
So congratulations to you.
It is more than making a baby,just so you know.
I've done both.
(00:54):
So I like to say that anybodywho's been listening at all is
like all right, cortes, I knowyou were going to say that
that's fine.
All right, let's talk aboutwhere you came from, dr Pelle.
You have just a reallybeautiful history and background
that I really find delightful.
That go into the ingredients ofDr Pelle.
So if we can first talk aboutyou know your upbringing, your
(01:16):
background and specifically whatyou learned from your mother,
so I know there's a lot you canshare.
So if you could just do thatbriefly so we can get into the
meat of what you created.
Dr. Pelè (01:25):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
I like to think of myself assomeone who has decided that I
will burn all boats and focusall my energies on just one
topic, and that topic ishappiness.
However, in trying to find away in the world, it's not.
It's not as easy to just say,hey, I talk about happiness.
(01:46):
It's like you know what type ofhappiness?
What, what?
What happiness?
What do you really mean?
And so, luckily, there's a lotof evidence in research and
science about a type ofhappiness that is actually known
as eudaimonic happiness, whichis different from what most
people think about.
When they think of happiness,they think of having fun and rah
(02:06):
rah, and that's called hedonichappiness, seeking pleasure.
But this kind of happiness isactually well researched.
It goes all the way back toAristotle.
It's called eudaimonichappiness and it's about
engagement, about finding thatspace of flow where time
vanishes, but having meaning inthe work that you do.
And so I really, you know, sortof grabbed onto that, because
(02:30):
it made a lot of sense to me.
I'm a musician, as you can seefrom my guitar in the background
and maybe my keyboard over here, you can see some of these
things I do.
I've written albums and I evenhave an album called profitable
happiness that goes with thisbook.
I'm a little crazy that way, Ithink.
Dr. Alise Cortez (02:44):
Yes, you are.
Dr. Pelè (02:46):
Yeah, everything's called profitable happiness, and
so I decided to really focus inon the research.
You know, my PhD is inorganization and management, and
so I'm really in line with alot of the research I did way
back when I got my PhD, when I'mthinking about how do you get
organizations to have culturesof happy employees, how on earth
(03:07):
do you do that, when we knowthat happy employees do produce
profitable companies?
Well, how do you actually makethat happen?
So that's been the question ofmy career and my life.
And now the question that youasked is well, how did I get
here?
Well, if you don't mind, I'mgoing to take you all the way
back to a jungle in Africa.
Dr. Alise Cortez (03:27):
That's what I want.
Dr. Pelè (03:28):
I know I'm going to take you all the way back to a
jungle.
In Africa In the late 60s I wasa child, maybe two, three years
old, and there was a civil warthat had broken out between
Nigeria, which is the parentcountry, and a small little
tribe called the Ibo's that'smyself, I was an Ibo child and
(03:50):
the Ibo's are known for beingvery, I have to say,
entrepreneurial people, veryself very determined people.
They really believe inthemselves and they just didn't
want to stick around and be partof the larger country.
So they decided to secede.
Well, now that they did that,unfortunately the West did not
(04:15):
support them and it became abloodbath.
Nigeria was killing millionsand millions of people and I
don't know if you remember theseblack and white pictures with
you know little children, thebig stones of wash your or and
flies buzzing around their faces.
I was one of those children.
We were starving, we werehungry, we were afraid of bombs
(04:36):
killing us every day.
It was a terrible time to gothrough, but we survived that
war because of the strangestthing that my mother did.
You know, what my mother didwas, in the absence of food she
couldn't feed us just runningfrom refugee camp to refugee
camp in the absence of shelter.
She couldn't give us thesethings, but what she could do
(04:59):
was the only thing she did,which was to sing to me and I
say us because there were otherpeople.
You know it's kind of.
You know the whole.
It takes a village to raise achild.
Everybody's always around inthese refugee camps, and so my
mother would just sing, and shewould sing and she would take my
name, pelle, and put it insideof a song, as though the song
(05:19):
that she's written was writtenfor me.
And you know what this did tome.
Besides the fact that itprobably was where I started
becoming a musician at the ageof two or three, what it did was
it distracted me from the fearof dying, it distracted me from
the pain of hunger and it mademe happy.
(05:40):
And for some reason I foundthrough that experience that
happiness comes before success.
You know a lot of people.
You know Maslow's hierarchy.
A lot of people will say thatyou know, if you want to succeed
, you know, first you have toget your basic needs met.
Don't think about happiness yet.
That comes later.
Just work hard and just make alot of money and then someday
(06:03):
you'll be happy.
That is a misunderstanding ofwhat Maslow was really teaching.
In fact, I think that's one ofthe big misunderstandings in
literature.
He wasn't saying don't everthink about your happiness.
He was just giving a sort ofyou know hierarchy and timeframe
as a model.
So I found that if you actuallystart with happiness, you'll
(06:24):
end up with success.
A lot of people think you got tostart with success first, and
so, because we were happy, wewere able to form these positive
, cohesive teams, develop habitsas a community, support each
other, help each other, befriendly to each other, even
though people are dying left andright and over time, that
happiness was one of the thingsthat I think a lot of people
(06:46):
attribute that to my mother.
That really helped us tosurvive, as we were just a team
of people being happy eventhough we had nothing to be
happy about.
So that's where I reallygrabbed onto this concept of
happiness and music, and I'vebeen fortunate to become, you
know, a big podcaster like youand a PhD like you, and you and
(07:10):
I are really in the sameprofession of helping people
build cultures of purpose, asyou do, and myself happiness, as
I do, and all the tools thatcome with it.
So that's my background.
I got into this by the accidentof a civil war.
Dr. Alise Cortez (07:26):
Well, the reason I wanted you to share
that, dr Pillay, is for tworeasons.
One, I wanted listeners andviewers to know you a little bit
more.
Like I know you as a friend, Ialso consider you a friend and a
colleague and so they canunderstand just the very unique
perspective that you came from.
Because what you're drawing onis what Dr Soren Kaplan taught
us in a previous episodeexperiential intelligence and I
(07:47):
want each of our listeners andviewers to recognize that they
have something in theirbackground, something that
they've experienced that'sunique and special, that gives
them a view on the world that isvaluable and useful to teach to
others, just like you havegiven to us.
I wanted to do that first, so Iwanted them to understand where
you came from and then open thepathway for them and to invite
them to come with us.
Now, the second thing I want todo with your background is I
(08:09):
want you to say a little bitabout your father, his influence
, because there's at least twothings that I think he gave you
that I think are really, reallypowerful.
So, when you say a little bitabout your father's influence on
you, Dr Alise, may I just saythat you're an awesome
interviewer.
Dr. Pelè (08:24):
We've never had this exchange before.
I've always interviewed you onmy podcast and I love your
questions.
It's just powerful.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
You're so correct.
I always attribute my love ofmusic and happiness, my
embracing of those things, to mymother, but my father, who, he
(08:45):
himself, was actually a PhD fromthe University of Minnesota my
father was really the one whotaught me about the pursuit of
excellence in whatever one istrying to do.
Now, how did that happen?
Well, back to the Civil Waragain.
My father actually left Nigeriaright before the Civil War
broke out and came to America,to the University of Minnesota
(09:08):
to study.
So he did his undergrad, he gotall the way to a PhD and he was
basically stuck, couldn't comeback because during the Civil
War there was no way to comeback.
However, he had named me, givenme this fantastic name, before
he left, and the name is, ofcourse, as you know, pele.
(09:30):
I'm named after the greatestsoccer player on earth.
Now, how are you gonna do thatto your child?
Dr. Alise Cortez (09:37):
Right, best intentions.
Dr. Pelè (09:40):
How are you gonna give ?
I mean, come on, I'm not gonnabe.
You know, look, I tried.
I tried to play soccer, but Ican't play soccer to save my
life, okay.
But you know, what happened isthat in our culture and the Igbo
culture, if you want your childto achieve something, you give
them a name that they'll alwayshold on to and that name will
(10:00):
inspire them, even if you're notaround.
And that's just one of thethings that we do.
We give names that actuallymean something, that inspire
people.
So he gave me the name Pelebecause he wanted me to achieve
excellence in my life.
Okay, and that was his wholepurpose for me.
Well, it turns out that thereason why Pele.
Just for anyone who doesn'tknow soccer very well, I'll just
(10:21):
tell you why.
Pele is the greatest soccerplayer on earth.
He won massive.
You know, he was the biggestplayer.
He won the World Cup severaltimes with his team in Brazil,
and not only that.
He was a very courageous personwho always looked out for
people.
During that civil war, peleannounced that he was going to
(10:43):
come to do an exhibition matchin the middle of the civil war
in Nigeria.
He left the safety and comfortof Brazil and he just told, you
know, against all advice, hesaid I'm gonna go do that.
So the amazing thing and thiswas captured in Time Magazine,
even Henry Kissinger, the formerSecretary of State of the
(11:06):
United States, wrote an articleabout this amazing thing that
Pele did to go to a civil warand play a soccer match.
And so what he did was, youknow, seen as bravery and really
reaching out to you know, tothe masses, to help other people
.
But the amazing thing is thatboth Nigeria and Biafra the
civil war, you know the peoplefighting each other they agreed
(11:31):
to stop fighting for two days.
Dr. Alise Cortez (11:33):
Yeah.
Dr. Pelè (11:34):
For 48 hours so that Pele and his team could fly in,
play the match and fly out, andeverybody watched people who
were killing each other a daybefore decided to go watch this
match together in peace.
So that was amazing.
So that level of excellence isreally what my father was trying
to give me and tell me itshould be.
Now, when someone asked Pelethe soccer player why are you so
(11:59):
good?
What is it that you do?
Look, if you've ever seen thatpicture of him kicking a ball
backwards it's called a bicyclekick.
He was the only one doing stufflike that crazy, crazy stuff.
Jump in the air, kick a ballbackwards and the ball would go
into the goal, right Eyes, inthe back of the head.
It's crazy.
So someone asked him how is itthat you're so good?
(12:20):
And you know what Pele said.
He said everything is practiceThree words, and that's.
If you've watched anydocumentary about him and his
father and how he grew up,you'll see that he truly
believed that and he practicedthat.
That's how he became Pelé.
So he didn't become Pelébecause he was just the talented
(12:41):
guy right, there's a lot oftalented people.
He became Pelé because of hisdiscipline of repetition and
practice and building habits,habits, that's where I wanted
you to go so that's the wordthat Dr Alise has been trying to
get me to say all day.
Building habits is the path toany form of excellence, whether
(13:02):
it's excellence as a soccerplayer or excellence in an
organization.
And so I became a musicianinstead of a soccer player, and
I can tell you, as a musician,all we do all day is practice
our skills, practice and get ourhabits going in our fingers.
It's called muscle memory rightSame thing.
So that's my expertise.
(13:23):
I am a habit maker.
Dr. Alise Cortez (13:24):
All right, and so I wanna, just before we go
into our first break here,because I wanna send people off
with something specific I wannasituate what you say in your
book and what you and I talkedabout this morning on our call
here we are in 2023 now, andGallup's most recent polls
indicate that two of their mostrelated metrics around happiness
, engagement and well-beingremain at an all-time low, with
only 21% of employees engaged atwork and only 33% thriving in
(13:48):
terms of overall well-being.
As you said, as we talked aboutthis morning, those numbers have
pretty much stuck for the lastthree decades.
So this is what you and I areboth focused on.
So I want you, if you would, drPele, just to kind of quickly
briefly situate why thosenumbers are important, and then
we're gonna take our first break.
Dr. Pelè (14:06):
Okay.
So, first of all, they have notbeen fixed because people are
not focusing on the right things.
Right, I have a little parablethat I like to share.
It's the goose and the goldeneggs, if you remember how-.
Dr. Alise Cortez (14:18):
Yes, I do yes.
Dr. Pelè (14:20):
Yeah, the farmer had a goose giving him golden eggs
and he wanted to get the egg, sohe killed the goose.
Now that's terrible, but theanalogy is the golden eggs are
the results, the outcomes thatorganizations want, but instead
of taking care of the goose, theemployees, they focus only on
the outcomes, unfortunately.
So I think that's adebilitating challenge that all
(14:42):
organizations have to cross.
They have to start to focus onemployees, and when we come back
, I'll give you what I call thethree Hs, the HHH strategy of
focus that all organizationsneed to begin to look at if they
want to start taking care ofthe goose, the employees, to get
the golden eggs.
Dr. Alise Cortez (15:00):
That is beautiful, dr Pele, thank you.
Great way to go on to the break.
And what I wanna send you,ladies and gentlemen, into the
break thinking about is thepower of a name, since what
we're also talking about todayis intrinsic motivation I want
you to think about well, can youcall your team, what can you
call your company?
That would be compelling,something that actually just
makes you reach for excellence,or something beyond yourself, as
(15:21):
Dr Pele's name is given to him.
So if you would think aboutthat and let's go on our next
break, our first break, I'm yourhost, Dr.
Alise Cortez.
We're on the air with Dr Pele,who is an educator, a musician,
bestselling author and thefounder of Profitable Happiness.
We're talking a bit about wherehe came from, where his ideas
came from and why this is nowimportant.
Now we're gonna get into, afterthe break, some of his key
(15:41):
principles as to how to actuallymake it happen.
Stay with us, we'll be rightback.
Dr. Pelè (15:45):
Now, if you're just joining us my guest is Dr Pele.
Dr. Alise Cortez (15:48):
He's the founder of Profitable Happiness.
We're talking about his latestbook on the topic, in the system
and software he's devised toenable companies to achieve
Profitable Happiness.
I'm your host, Dr.
Alise Cortez, so let's getfurther into this, shall we?
I wanna start giving ourlisteners and viewers a little
bit more of the science and someof your methodology that you've
created.
Of course, you know I loveanything research-oriented.
(16:09):
I love your methodology.
You know I align with yourmethodology, so I wanna be able
to give our listeners andviewers some of the meat so they
can walk away already enabledto start to use this stuff.
So first, you, like me, do thisthing where you get research
because of the episodes that youdo, right?
So I read the books, you readthe books and that is a form of
(16:30):
your research.
So you have talked about howyou have developed some pitiful
insights from guests and thathas actually supported your
research, and that you actuallyhave found this model of an
acronym of happy that representsthese five key employee habits
that organizations need to buildcultures of high performance
around.
I think it makes sense to startthere.
(16:51):
What is this happy acronym allabout?
Dr. Pelè (16:56):
Yeah, no, no great question.
First of all, the happy acronymwhile some people may think
it's trite, is designedprecisely for the purpose of
making sure nobody forgets it,Right?
So it may be, oh, he's got anacronym called happy, yeah, but
you're never gonna forget that Ihave an acronym called happy,
(17:18):
right.
Dr. Alise Cortez (17:18):
It goes with you.
Dr. Pelè (17:20):
It just goes with you.
So that's the purpose ofdeveloping the menomic, the
acronym HAPPY.
Now, what it actually standsfor are the various elements
that create engagement, thevarious elements that create
positive well-being inorganizations, happier employees
(17:42):
and so on and so forth.
So, if you go back to theanalogy that we shared about the
goose and the golden eggs,think of the goose as the
employees and then, of course,the golden eggs as the outcome,
such as sales results, businessresults and so on, of employees.
If you kill the goose, you'regonna lose the outcomes.
(18:03):
Right, and that's what happenswhen leaders ignore the
well-being of their employees.
They're essentially killing thegoose.
So in order to make that goosehealthy, we need to focus on
five elements based on research.
Number one is, of course,happiness, but not hedonic
happiness, eudaimonic happiness,the kind of happiness that's
(18:25):
closer tied to engagement andflow and so on.
And if you wanna know the truth, I didn't wanna call my book
eudaimonic happiness.
I really lost the crowd.
I'm not sure it sounds verygood, but that's what the
science teaches us.
So I called it profitablehappiness.
That's where that name camefrom.
And then the next thing isappreciation.
(18:46):
So H is for profitablehappiness, eudaimonic happiness,
and A is for appreciation.
Research, study after studyshows, and even common sense
shows us, that when a humanbeing feels appreciated, they
will go the extra mile, theywill do better than they even
thought they were gonna do,because, guess what, somebody
(19:07):
cares about what I'm about to door about what I've been doing.
And the kind of appreciationthat carries the most weight
sure, peer appreciation is fineand so on, but the kind of
appreciation that reallyconnects with people is the type
that is given by managers.
Yes, now, appreciation isreally of two types.
You do a great job and you havedone a great job.
(19:31):
Right, there's what you've doneversus who you are.
And when managers are able toreally help their employees feel
appreciated as a daily practice, they are really creating a
productive employee, and that'san important number two.
Number three is pride.
Pride is another feeling, very,very under-researched, if I may
say that there's not a lot ofhard research on this, but a lot
(19:55):
of people have done great.
You know distributions on thisand I've read a lot of them, and
you know, we've found that if aperson feels by the way, again,
there are two types of pride.
There's a negative kind ofpride, right, a hubristic I'm
the best in the world, ha ha ha.
Type of pride, and we know someleaders who act that way.
Right, we're not gonna go there.
(20:17):
So there's the kind of pride.
But then there's another kind ofpride, which is a really strong
satisfaction and belief inpositive feeling around the work
one does or around the companythat one works for.
So I'm proud of my work, I'mproud of my company in a
positive way.
That's the kind of pride thatwe're talking about, and what
makes that pride possible againis when people give recognition,
(20:41):
especially when leaders andmanagers give recognition to
employees, that pride swells upwithin them and makes them wanna
even go beyond and do evengreater things.
So that's the HAP, and thefourth is the P, the second P,
which is participateparticipation.
A lot of people talk aboutemployee experience.
(21:03):
In fact, I would say there wasa battle between employee
experience and employeeengagement, and employee
experience is winning right now.
Dr. Alise Cortez (21:09):
Yes, it is.
Dr. Pelè (21:10):
People seem to see that as the more powerful force
of companies.
And it's all good, I saythey're all important.
But employee experience right,is impotent without employees
creating that experience.
This is the challenge that alot of organizations don't
understand.
You can't just command andcontrol, come down from the high
(21:31):
mountain and say this is yourexperience.
Guess what?
How about you invite thoseemployees to participate in
creating that employeeexperience?
When they take ownership of it,they will love it.
And that's the simple approachthat I take, with this idea of
participation being so important.
And the last thing, which is thewhy is for yardsticks, which
(21:54):
means measure everything,measure anything that you want
to turn into a culture or ahabit.
You gotta measure it.
Peter Drucker once said what wemeasure is what will be
improved.
I think I'm paraphrasing, buthe said what gets measured gets
improved.
I would agree, but I think amore powerful statement would be
(22:15):
what gets measured becomes ahabit Because you're always
thinking about it, you're alwaysdoing it, you're always
measuring it Before you know it.
The power of habits, thepsychological and cerebral and
brain power of habits, musclememory takes over and you now
have a thing that everybody justautomatically does.
(22:36):
So when you measure things allthe time.
You're building cultures,you're building habits, and so
that's what I have built.
My entire book, my software andmy practice around is helping
people implement HAPPY.
Dr. Alise Cortez (22:52):
Gorgeous, so beautiful.
You know I line with all that.
Okay, now I gotta tell you Ilearned so much from you and
your book about habit formation.
My friend, thank you for that.
So, if you would, I want you totake us into the ABC of habit
creation.
Dr. Pelè (23:06):
Wow, I love how you put it as ABC, because that is
really what it is.
Now, for those who don't thinkthey're as much of a nerd as Dr
Alise or myself, I'm gonna tryto talk about what ABC means,
because it is really the centerof habits, but not a lot of
people are aware of that.
(23:26):
In something calledorganizational behavior
management or OBM, or just thepractice of helping people
change behavior, even if it's ina home where people who are
challenged with behavior arebrought to, abc is applied to
them to help them build newhabits.
It's a well science backed,proven approach to behavior
(23:51):
change and creation andmodification.
Now, what does ABC stand for?
It stands for the three stagesof any behavior.
The first is what happensbefore a behavior.
It's called the antecedent A.
The second is the behavioritself and the third is what
happens after a behavior, whichis the consequence.
Now, if you go all the way backto Pavlov, for example, where
(24:12):
he was bringing dogs and I can'tremember what, monkeys, maybe
different animals, and maybe hewould give them a little
antecedent, here's the food andthat would act as the thing that
comes before the behavior thatPavlov wanted, and they would
get the food, do the behaviorand then they would get a good
consequence.
(24:32):
And if they didn't do the rightbehavior, they would get a bad
consequence.
So this is how you createbehavior in all, not only humans
, but animals.
So ABC is a well-known acronymand approach.
Now, if you want to build habitsproactively with human beings,
you got to go beyond ABC.
Now, this is what you will notfind in the literature, but you
(24:54):
will find it in my book.
What you need to do is you needto make every stage of the ABC
system desirable, because if youdon't do that, you're gonna
have apathy.
You're gonna have people notwanting to deal with making
habits.
Look, I gotta tell you, makinghabits is not easy.
It's hard work.
(25:14):
You have to challenge yourself.
Oh, I gotta get up right nowand go take that walk, or oh, I
gotta.
You know it's hard work, a lotof mental energy.
So if you don't make itdesirable, it'll never get done.
No habit will be formed.
So how do you make the ABCdesirable?
A, make it, get your attention.
So when it's time to do thatnew behavior, get their
(25:36):
attention.
Whether it's a loud bell thatrings or it's a sweetening of
the incentives that make youwant to do it, whatever it is,
get attention.
Then they do the behavior.
While they're doing the behavior, most people will quit because
they get tired, lack ofmotivation or something else.
So you need to provide them abelief that's the B, a belief
(25:58):
system, motivation to continue.
And then at the end, when it'stime for a consequence that'll
make them want to go back and dothe behavior, make sure it's a
positive consequence, make sureit's a celebration, because when
people celebrate, that's a C.
When people celebrate they getthe positive and the more
endorphins they feel the pride,they feel the appreciation.
All of those things make themwant to do that behavior again.
(26:21):
So if you want happy employees,use the ABC approach on the
concept of happiness.
If you want engagement, use ABCto build engagement habits and
so on and so forth.
And that's basically what mybook is about is how do you use
habits, which is like thesuperpower of human beings is
habits.
How do you use that to changeorganizations, from the employee
(26:43):
onward?
Dr. Alise Cortez (26:45):
That was so deliciously articulated.
Dr Pele, thank you, and I thinkthat's one of the most powerful
things about your book.
And you're right, what you havewritten is so crisp.
It delineates habits and accessto habits so beautifully and
compellingly.
I can't tell the number ofpeople that I've met who said,
oh, I got to get into anexercise program.
You're never going to get there, saying gotta.
Never going to get there.
(27:05):
So, ladies and gentlemen, ifyou care at all about habits,
it's really about creating aculture.
This is the book to pick up.
So, while I'm going to send youoff to Amazon or wherever it is
that you get your books, let'sgo on to our next break here and
then we'll carry on here.
I'm your host, Dr.
Alise Cortez.
We are the year of Dr Pele, whois an educator, musician,
bestselling author and thefounder of Profitable Happiness.
(27:26):
We've been talking a bit aboutsome of the guts of his book,
just what really makes theessence of it.
After the break, we're going toget into some of the more finer
details of it.
Stay with us, we'll be rightback and if you are just joining
us, he is my guest, dr Pele,the founder of Profitable
Happiness.
We're talking about his latestbook on the topic and the system
and software he's devised toenable companies to achieve
profitable happiness.
I'm your host, Dr.
(27:46):
Alise Cortez.
So for this last segment, drPele, I just want to, I want to
just dive into a few of theconcepts there were so many, but
just a few that I think arereally essential for listeners
of yours to understand why yourwork is so important.
So first we got to go into thiswhole idea of bidirectional
domino habit of listening.
I can virtually guarantee youthat this is a novel concept for
(28:09):
most organizations, as you know.
So could you talk a little bitabout this notion of listening
as an essential bidirectionaldomino habit?
Dr. Pelè (28:18):
Yeah, so first let's start with a domino habit.
So a habit is really a behaviorthat you have turned into an
automatic sequence using thepower of the brain.
I have right here a model ofthe brain, and the way it
basically works is, you know,inputs come in a sight, sound
(28:41):
and so on and so forth into theconscious brain, and if you want
to turn anything you'relearning whether it's riding a
bike or playing the piano or theguitar into a habit, then you
have to keep repeating it andkeep repeating it until you push
it down into the basal ganglia.
I'm looking, because I have amap on my wall.
It looks just like this.
(29:01):
I talk about this all the time,I love it, and so this idea of
habits, this idea of habits,it's really more than just oh, I
have a habit.
It's really a superpower thatwe humans have, and when people
know how to tap into habits,they can do amazing things,
things they didn't believe theycould do.
So how about we apply that toengagement?
(29:22):
How about we apply that tohappiness?
This is the thing that has notbeen done.
You know, we've tried manythings and, as we said, 30 years
have gone by and I don't thinkanybody has really brought the
power of habit making into thearena of engagement.
And so when we talk aboutlistening as a bi-directional
(29:42):
thing and as a domino habit, onehabit, one positive habit, will
create multiple positive habits.
That's what a domino habit is.
In my book I coined that term soI don't know if you'd see it
anywhere else so a domino habitreally is a big sort of a parent
habit that allows other greathabits to happen.
Let me give you an example.
(30:02):
If I say I'm going to loseweight, right, and I'm going to
have to maybe walk every morning, what might happen out of
walking every morning is I'llfeel when I come back, I got to
take a shower.
Now, if I was, because I'm hotand muggy or something after the
walk, if I was someone whodidn't like taking showers in
(30:24):
the morning, guess what I'mdoing now.
I'm building a habit abouttaking showers.
But that's not what startedthis.
I wanted to lose weight and Itook a walk.
So taking a walk is a dominohabit that gives me things like
brushing my teeth in the morning.
This is kind of an extremeexample, taking a shower but it
really is how you build otherhabits.
So in an organization, if wepick a habit and we say we want
(30:47):
to build engagement in order forpeople to be engaged, they're
going to start forming othersmall positive habits.
That's really how it works.
In order to support the parenthabit.
Now, the habit that I have foundin organizations creates the
best domino habits is listening.
Now you might say well, why,why listening?
(31:08):
Well, let's be honest, how welldo leaders really listen to
their employees and how well doemployees really listen to
leaders?
That's why it has to bebi-directional.
Now, leaders could say, hey,yeah, but we do these surveys,
we listen all the time, we getall these surveys and people.
But you want to know the truthEmployees don't like surveys
(31:30):
that much.
They're getting tired of them.
And so what they?
And, by the way, when they dofill out these surveys with
their suggestions and theirfeelings, nothing happens.
It's like their response isgood to this big corner office
in the sky to die and they'relike well, why am I giving you
all my great suggestions andfeedback and frustrations if
(31:52):
nobody does anything about them?
That's why you need thereciprocity, the bi-directional
listening.
I listen to you, you listen tome, I take action on what I've
listened to.
You can see that actiontransparently and we're doing a
back and forth.
Now guess who does a back andforth of listening and
responding and taking action?
A jazz band, right.
(32:14):
And so in my book, my centralanalogy is the idea of a jam
when impromptu jam, wheremusicians come together and they
listen to each other carefully.
They follow each other inwherever the music is going to
go, and that's how organizationscan improve their interactions
(32:34):
by finding ways to listen toeach other.
Now you will have to askquestions.
Pulse surveys are a good way todo that, but don't make them
long short.
Get to the point questions, butdo them more frequently and
you'll be getting that back andforth happening more like a jazz
band.
And that's what I've found tobe really powerful is
(32:54):
bi-directional listening thathas reciprocity and transparency
and accountability.
Dr. Alise Cortez (33:00):
Right, which is what allows.
Then the employees also startto weigh in with what workplace
do they actually want?
And the reason I wanted you tobring that up to Dr Palay is
that I've done many employeeengagement surveys with
organizations and I insist thatthey share those results, but
many organizations don't, soit's the black hole thing.
So now we need that circularpiece, that bi-directional piece
you're talking about.
(33:21):
So that's what I wanted you tofirst distinguish.
Now, second, if you would Iknow you'll know a lot about
this I want you to distinguishappreciation versus gratitude.
Dr. Pelè (33:33):
Now I don't know if I'm full down in a second.
I'm not sure I'm that qualifiedto appreciate, to talk about
the difference between gratitudeand appreciation, because
they're really they're reallyactually very different.
Appreciation is something thatyou can do to someone and maybe
there's another angle I'mmissing but you can actually
(33:53):
show appreciation to someone.
But gratitude is something youkind of have to generate
yourself.
You have to say you know what Ifeel.
I'm going to spend some timeand feel gratitude for this
thing that I have, and so it's apersonal, it's kind of a
personal action that you'retaking.
Versus appreciation really cancome from someone else.
(34:14):
Right, of course you canappreciate yourself too, but you
know other people can eitherappreciate you or not appreciate
you, and that can be a realproblem.
I think the big distinction isthe difference between
appreciation and recognition,which is another area where
people kind of don't really Okay, yeah, so for recognition, you
know recognition has been shownby a lot of research to be the
(34:36):
engine of pride.
This is what makes people feelproud of their work, is when
someone recognizes you.
Oh, wow, great job, that thingyou did.
And appreciation is really moresomething that people do to
show you about, to show you theyappreciate the quality of who
you are versus the quality ofwhat you've done.
Dr. Alise Cortez (34:56):
Yes.
Dr. Pelè (34:57):
So what you've done goes into recognition, camp
Appreciation.
Takes the who you are camp,right, it's sort of you know I'm
getting that personalconnection who I am.
And then the first one,gratitude, is what I need to
generate and feel by myself inorder to be happy.
In fact, the greatest tool ofhappiness is generating personal
(35:19):
gratitude for everything aroundyou.
So whether you're doing agratitude journal yourself or
you're just thinking about it,the blessings you have every
morning, that's how you createhappiness is through gratitude.
Dr. Alise Cortez (35:31):
Oh, I love that, and what's why I
appreciate that is you know, Italk to leaders and say you know
I do appreciate my people.
I tell them that and theyperform its duties every year.
Yeah, that's not it.
That's not what we're talkingabout here, okay.
So now I want to, if we can, Iwant to go a little bit layer
deeper here, this creating aculture of positive pride.
You give some tactics here andthere's about seven or eight of
(35:54):
them.
If you would just maybe speakto a few of them, because I want
people to understand that thisis actionable.
Dr. Pelè (36:00):
Yeah.
Dr. Alise Cortez (36:00):
How do we do this?
Dr. Pelè (36:02):
Yes, Now just to be clear, listening is on that list
, because listening is thatpowerful domino habit.
Yes, it is that makes peoplefeel, hey, if they're listening
to me, then maybe I can have.
I can feel psychological safetyhere, which is another one of
those items that you talkedabout.
Dr. Alise Cortez (36:18):
Yes.
Dr. Pelè (36:19):
Maybe I can feel free to give feedback, maybe I can be
, maybe I feel includes orinclusive or not.
I feel inclusive, maybe I feelincluded in this organization
regardless of my orientation orbackground, and so on and so
forth.
So all of these thingscontribute to a sense of
psychological safety.
It's hard for a person to feelpride when they don't feel safe
(36:43):
in an organization.
If you have a micromanagingboss, it's really difficult for
you to feel pride in the thingsthat you're doing, because guess
what they're doing?
It Right, yes, so all of thesethings are intertwined and I
highlight these things in mybook because the software that
I've built, called profitablehappiness, is a one-to-one
(37:06):
mapping of these concepts.
It's literally taking all ofthe science about psychological
safety and listening and allthese concepts and it's making
them tangible in software.
Why?
Because if you can go fromhappiness or feelings or
engagement to building habitsthat make those things real,
(37:28):
take action on them, that's howyou get high performance.
I call that the 3-H approach.
Happiness takes you to habits,takes you to high performance,
and the way you do that isthrough software.
Dr. Alise Cortez (37:41):
And I wanted you to talk about that, dr
Depele, because you and I havespoken over the few years that
we've known each other and then,most recently, about what
you've just recently created.
I mean, you've created aframework and supporting
software to help companiescreate these high performance
organizations through profitablehappiness.
So what I appreciate is it'sone thing to birth the concept,
the methodology.
(38:03):
It's quite another to go aheadand bolt on a whole software, to
actually engine it, if you will.
So would you say just a littlebit about how your software
works?
How does it map in and backinto your framework?
Dr. Pelè (38:18):
Precisely.
The first thing I would say isthat my software follows a
strategy.
I'm going to use anotheracronym called LEAP, and the
reason I'm going to use thisacronym is because it identifies
listening as the very firstthing that you have to do in an
organization.
The second thing is thatlistening has to activate
(38:41):
employee engagement.
By listening to people andmaking it reciprocal and making
sure that people know that we'rehere together, everybody
becomes more engaged.
So that's L and that's E.
That leads to action which,when repeated over and over,
creates these habits we've beentalking about.
So L E, a, and then, finally,it is when these actions start
(39:04):
to create the productivity thateverybody's looking for.
That's when we get highperformance, the P.
So my focus has been on how tobuild software that helps you
leap from where you are now towhere you need to be in your
organization, which is a cultureof happiness.
Now, how we do that is basicallywe help employees focus every
(39:25):
single week on one thing.
Now you may have heard, I think, they say whatever you focus on
is what will grow or what willbuild or whatever.
Right, that's just the way themind works.
The mind can't do two thingsreally at a time very well.
Despite what you've heard aboutmultitasking, the mind really
likes to focus and if it focuses, it does very well in that
(39:46):
thing.
So how do you help employeesfocus on something?
We ask them questions.
If I ask every time I see myson, hey, how you doing on that
math question there.
Next time I see him, hey, howyou doing on that math question.
Next time I see him, samequestion he's gonna go off
(40:09):
somewhere in his little worldand say you know what dad keeps
asking me about math?
What is this math thing?
And whether he likes it or not,he's gonna focus on math a
little bit more than he normallywould.
And that's how you get people tofocus.
So you build habits of focus onspecific things like engagement
, and that's how the softwareworks.
Every Friday you get an emailthat invites you to answer a
(40:31):
couple of questions aboutengagement, happiness or, if
we're using Dr Alise's book,purpose, and those questions
would help the employees overtime form habits and cultures
around those things.
And then from that data we takethat data about all these
questions we're asking over 52weeks of a year and then we give
(40:53):
them advice and that's where AIcomes in.
I know a lot of people arewondering whether AI is good or
bad.
Well, it's actually pretty goodbecause it can give you great
advice on what to do, given thedata that you have in your
organization.
So that's how our system works.
Dr. Alise Cortez (41:07):
Beautiful, and what a way to take us into the
finish.
My gosh, dr Pele.
That was so much Okay.
So you probably know by nowthat this show is listened to by
people around the world andthey are interested in helping
to create workplaces wherepeople actually thrive.
Wanna come to work and do theirbest, and we do business that
betters the world.
What would you like to leavethem with?
Dr. Pelè (41:25):
I would like to leave them with two things.
First of all, believe that it'spossible to build cultures of
profitable happiness, highengagement, high productivity,
purpose and meaning.
You do it using software likeI've just described.
And then the second thing I'dlike to leave them with is you
(41:46):
can get that software right nowfor free, because we are in a
pre-beta phase.
Our team has developed thesoftware and we are looking for
the right small to medium sizedenterprises or companies who
would want to implement it sothat we can track their progress
over time, because that databecomes the data we use to go to
(42:07):
market when we're ready.
So they become prototypetesters or beta testers for us.
So if anyone is interested inhaving software that really
helps you build your culture ofhigh performance, this is an
opportunity to get that withoutspending a dime.
That's my offer.
Dr. Alise Cortez (42:24):
That's a pretty good way to finish the
show, dr Pele Woo.
Bring it home.
All right listeners and viewers, you'll learn more about Dr
Pele and the work that he isdoing.
Where should they go, dr Pele?
What website?
Dr. Pelè (42:36):
Profitablehappinesscom is the software.
My personal speaking website ifanybody wants to bring me in to
come do a little speech is DrPelecom.
And then, of course, I'm onLinkedIn and my handle is Dr
Pele D-R-P-E-L-E.
Dr. Alise Cortez (42:52):
Thank you.
Dr. Pelè (42:54):
Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
For more episodes, visitdrpelecom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
Hello happy people.
Welcome to the ProfitableHappiness Podcast.
Dr. Alise Cortez (00:07):
Dr.
Pelè, welcome to Working OnPurpose.
Dr. Pelè (00:11):
How are you, Dr Alise?
Thank you so much for theinvitation.
I'm so excited to be here.
Dr. Alise Cortez (00:17):
It's so wonderful to talk to you again.
Book in my day with you.
We started the day together at7 am my time in Seattle, and now
here we are, 3 pm my time inSeattle.
So welcome back, pelle.
It's the, it's Alise and DrPelle's show.
Dr. Pelè (00:32):
There, you go.
Dr. Alise Cortez (00:33):
So first let me just celebrate, as I like to
do.
Dr Pelle, you know both of usare authors and you know this is
the latest thing that youbrought into the world.
It's beautiful.
I've read it.
You know, as an author, I'malways amazed what it takes to
actually bring a book into theworld.
So congratulations to you.
It is more than making a baby,just so you know.
I've done both.
(00:54):
So I like to say that anybodywho's been listening at all is
like all right, cortes, I knowyou were going to say that
that's fine.
All right, let's talk aboutwhere you came from, dr Pelle.
You have just a reallybeautiful history and background
that I really find delightful.
That go into the ingredients ofDr Pelle.
So if we can first talk aboutyou know your upbringing, your
(01:16):
background and specifically whatyou learned from your mother,
so I know there's a lot you canshare.
So if you could just do thatbriefly so we can get into the
meat of what you created.
Dr. Pelè (01:25):
Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
I like to think of myself assomeone who has decided that I
will burn all boats and focusall my energies on just one
topic, and that topic ishappiness.
However, in trying to find away in the world, it's not.
It's not as easy to just say,hey, I talk about happiness.
(01:46):
It's like you know what type ofhappiness?
What, what?
What happiness?
What do you really mean?
And so, luckily, there's a lotof evidence in research and
science about a type ofhappiness that is actually known
as eudaimonic happiness, whichis different from what most
people think about.
When they think of happiness,they think of having fun and rah
(02:06):
rah, and that's called hedonichappiness, seeking pleasure.
But this kind of happiness isactually well researched.
It goes all the way back toAristotle.
It's called eudaimonichappiness and it's about
engagement, about finding thatspace of flow where time
vanishes, but having meaning inthe work that you do.
And so I really, you know, sortof grabbed onto that, because
(02:30):
it made a lot of sense to me.
I'm a musician, as you can seefrom my guitar in the background
and maybe my keyboard over here, you can see some of these
things I do.
I've written albums and I evenhave an album called profitable
happiness that goes with thisbook.
I'm a little crazy that way, Ithink.
Dr. Alise Cortez (02:44):
Yes, you are.
Dr. Pelè (02:46):
Yeah, everything's called profitable happiness, and
so I decided to really focus inon the research.
You know, my PhD is inorganization and management, and
so I'm really in line with alot of the research I did way
back when I got my PhD, when I'mthinking about how do you get
organizations to have culturesof happy employees, how on earth
(03:07):
do you do that, when we knowthat happy employees do produce
profitable companies?
Well, how do you actually makethat happen?
So that's been the question ofmy career and my life.
And now the question that youasked is well, how did I get
here?
Well, if you don't mind, I'mgoing to take you all the way
back to a jungle in Africa.
Dr. Alise Cortez (03:27):
That's what I want.
Dr. Pelè (03:28):
I know I'm going to take you all the way back to a
jungle.
In Africa In the late 60s I wasa child, maybe two, three years
old, and there was a civil warthat had broken out between
Nigeria, which is the parentcountry, and a small little
tribe called the Ibo's that'smyself, I was an Ibo child and
(03:50):
the Ibo's are known for beingvery, I have to say,
entrepreneurial people, veryself very determined people.
They really believe inthemselves and they just didn't
want to stick around and be partof the larger country.
So they decided to secede.
Well, now that they did that,unfortunately the West did not
(04:15):
support them and it became abloodbath.
Nigeria was killing millionsand millions of people and I
don't know if you remember theseblack and white pictures with
you know little children, thebig stones of wash your or and
flies buzzing around their faces.
I was one of those children.
We were starving, we werehungry, we were afraid of bombs
(04:36):
killing us every day.
It was a terrible time to gothrough, but we survived that
war because of the strangestthing that my mother did.
You know, what my mother didwas, in the absence of food she
couldn't feed us just runningfrom refugee camp to refugee
camp in the absence of shelter.
She couldn't give us thesethings, but what she could do
(04:59):
was the only thing she did,which was to sing to me and I
say us because there were otherpeople.
You know it's kind of.
You know the whole.
It takes a village to raise achild.
Everybody's always around inthese refugee camps, and so my
mother would just sing, and shewould sing and she would take my
name, pelle, and put it insideof a song, as though the song
(05:19):
that she's written was writtenfor me.
And you know what this did tome.
Besides the fact that itprobably was where I started
becoming a musician at the ageof two or three, what it did was
it distracted me from the fearof dying, it distracted me from
the pain of hunger and it mademe happy.
(05:40):
And for some reason I foundthrough that experience that
happiness comes before success.
You know a lot of people.
You know Maslow's hierarchy.
A lot of people will say thatyou know, if you want to succeed
, you know, first you have toget your basic needs met.
Don't think about happiness yet.
That comes later.
Just work hard and just make alot of money and then someday
(06:03):
you'll be happy.
That is a misunderstanding ofwhat Maslow was really teaching.
In fact, I think that's one ofthe big misunderstandings in
literature.
He wasn't saying don't everthink about your happiness.
He was just giving a sort ofyou know hierarchy and timeframe
as a model.
So I found that if you actuallystart with happiness, you'll
(06:24):
end up with success.
A lot of people think you got tostart with success first, and
so, because we were happy, wewere able to form these positive
, cohesive teams, develop habitsas a community, support each
other, help each other, befriendly to each other, even
though people are dying left andright and over time, that
happiness was one of the thingsthat I think a lot of people
(06:46):
attribute that to my mother.
That really helped us tosurvive, as we were just a team
of people being happy eventhough we had nothing to be
happy about.
So that's where I reallygrabbed onto this concept of
happiness and music, and I'vebeen fortunate to become, you
know, a big podcaster like youand a PhD like you, and you and
(07:10):
I are really in the sameprofession of helping people
build cultures of purpose, asyou do, and myself happiness, as
I do, and all the tools thatcome with it.
So that's my background.
I got into this by the accidentof a civil war.
Dr. Alise Cortez (07:26):
Well, the reason I wanted you to share
that, dr Pillay, is for tworeasons.
One, I wanted listeners andviewers to know you a little bit
more.
Like I know you as a friend, Ialso consider you a friend and a
colleague and so they canunderstand just the very unique
perspective that you came from.
Because what you're drawing onis what Dr Soren Kaplan taught
us in a previous episodeexperiential intelligence and I
(07:47):
want each of our listeners andviewers to recognize that they
have something in theirbackground, something that
they've experienced that'sunique and special, that gives
them a view on the world that isvaluable and useful to teach to
others, just like you havegiven to us.
I wanted to do that first, so Iwanted them to understand where
you came from and then open thepathway for them and to invite
them to come with us.
Now, the second thing I want todo with your background is I
(08:09):
want you to say a little bitabout your father, his influence
, because there's at least twothings that I think he gave you
that I think are really, reallypowerful.
So, when you say a little bitabout your father's influence on
you, Dr Alise, may I just saythat you're an awesome
interviewer.
Dr. Pelè (08:24):
We've never had this exchange before.
I've always interviewed you onmy podcast and I love your
questions.
It's just powerful.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
You're so correct.
I always attribute my love ofmusic and happiness, my
embracing of those things, to mymother, but my father, who, he
(08:45):
himself, was actually a PhD fromthe University of Minnesota my
father was really the one whotaught me about the pursuit of
excellence in whatever one istrying to do.
Now, how did that happen?
Well, back to the Civil Waragain.
My father actually left Nigeriaright before the Civil War
broke out and came to America,to the University of Minnesota
(09:08):
to study.
So he did his undergrad, he gotall the way to a PhD and he was
basically stuck, couldn't comeback because during the Civil
War there was no way to comeback.
However, he had named me, givenme this fantastic name, before
he left, and the name is, ofcourse, as you know, pele.
(09:30):
I'm named after the greatestsoccer player on earth.
Now, how are you gonna do thatto your child?
Dr. Alise Cortez (09:37):
Right, best intentions.
Dr. Pelè (09:40):
How are you gonna give ?
I mean, come on, I'm not gonnabe.
You know, look, I tried.
I tried to play soccer, but Ican't play soccer to save my
life, okay.
But you know, what happened isthat in our culture and the Igbo
culture, if you want your childto achieve something, you give
them a name that they'll alwayshold on to and that name will
(10:00):
inspire them, even if you're notaround.
And that's just one of thethings that we do.
We give names that actuallymean something, that inspire
people.
So he gave me the name Pelebecause he wanted me to achieve
excellence in my life.
Okay, and that was his wholepurpose for me.
Well, it turns out that thereason why Pele.
Just for anyone who doesn'tknow soccer very well, I'll just
(10:21):
tell you why.
Pele is the greatest soccerplayer on earth.
He won massive.
You know, he was the biggestplayer.
He won the World Cup severaltimes with his team in Brazil,
and not only that.
He was a very courageous personwho always looked out for
people.
During that civil war, peleannounced that he was going to
(10:43):
come to do an exhibition matchin the middle of the civil war
in Nigeria.
He left the safety and comfortof Brazil and he just told, you
know, against all advice, hesaid I'm gonna go do that.
So the amazing thing and thiswas captured in Time Magazine,
even Henry Kissinger, the formerSecretary of State of the
(11:06):
United States, wrote an articleabout this amazing thing that
Pele did to go to a civil warand play a soccer match.
And so what he did was, youknow, seen as bravery and really
reaching out to you know, tothe masses, to help other people
.
But the amazing thing is thatboth Nigeria and Biafra the
civil war, you know the peoplefighting each other they agreed
(11:31):
to stop fighting for two days.
Dr. Alise Cortez (11:33):
Yeah.
Dr. Pelè (11:34):
For 48 hours so that Pele and his team could fly in,
play the match and fly out, andeverybody watched people who
were killing each other a daybefore decided to go watch this
match together in peace.
So that was amazing.
So that level of excellence isreally what my father was trying
to give me and tell me itshould be.
Now, when someone asked Pelethe soccer player why are you so
(11:59):
good?
What is it that you do?
Look, if you've ever seen thatpicture of him kicking a ball
backwards it's called a bicyclekick.
He was the only one doing stufflike that crazy, crazy stuff.
Jump in the air, kick a ballbackwards and the ball would go
into the goal, right Eyes, inthe back of the head.
It's crazy.
So someone asked him how is itthat you're so good?
(12:20):
And you know what Pele said.
He said everything is practiceThree words, and that's.
If you've watched anydocumentary about him and his
father and how he grew up,you'll see that he truly
believed that and he practicedthat.
That's how he became Pelé.
So he didn't become Pelébecause he was just the talented
(12:41):
guy right, there's a lot oftalented people.
He became Pelé because of hisdiscipline of repetition and
practice and building habits,habits, that's where I wanted
you to go so that's the wordthat Dr Alise has been trying to
get me to say all day.
Building habits is the path toany form of excellence, whether
(13:02):
it's excellence as a soccerplayer or excellence in an
organization.
And so I became a musicianinstead of a soccer player, and
I can tell you, as a musician,all we do all day is practice
our skills, practice and get ourhabits going in our fingers.
It's called muscle memory rightSame thing.
So that's my expertise.
(13:23):
I am a habit maker.
Dr. Alise Cortez (13:24):
All right, and so I wanna, just before we go
into our first break here,because I wanna send people off
with something specific I wannasituate what you say in your
book and what you and I talkedabout this morning on our call
here we are in 2023 now, andGallup's most recent polls
indicate that two of their mostrelated metrics around happiness
, engagement and well-beingremain at an all-time low, with
only 21% of employees engaged atwork and only 33% thriving in
(13:48):
terms of overall well-being.
As you said, as we talked aboutthis morning, those numbers have
pretty much stuck for the lastthree decades.
So this is what you and I areboth focused on.
So I want you, if you would, drPele, just to kind of quickly
briefly situate why thosenumbers are important, and then
we're gonna take our first break.
Dr. Pelè (14:06):
Okay.
So, first of all, they have notbeen fixed because people are
not focusing on the right things.
Right, I have a little parablethat I like to share.
It's the goose and the goldeneggs, if you remember how-.
Dr. Alise Cortez (14:18):
Yes, I do yes.
Dr. Pelè (14:20):
Yeah, the farmer had a goose giving him golden eggs
and he wanted to get the egg, sohe killed the goose.
Now that's terrible, but theanalogy is the golden eggs are
the results, the outcomes thatorganizations want, but instead
of taking care of the goose, theemployees, they focus only on
the outcomes, unfortunately.
So I think that's adebilitating challenge that all
(14:42):
organizations have to cross.
They have to start to focus onemployees, and when we come back
, I'll give you what I call thethree Hs, the HHH strategy of
focus that all organizationsneed to begin to look at if they
want to start taking care ofthe goose, the employees, to get
the golden eggs.
Dr. Alise Cortez (15:00):
That is beautiful, dr Pele, thank you.
Great way to go on to the break.
And what I wanna send you,ladies and gentlemen, into the
break thinking about is thepower of a name, since what
we're also talking about todayis intrinsic motivation I want
you to think about well, can youcall your team, what can you
call your company?
That would be compelling,something that actually just
makes you reach for excellence,or something beyond yourself, as
(15:21):
Dr Pele's name is given to him.
So if you would think aboutthat and let's go on our next
break, our first break, I'm yourhost, Dr.
Alise Cortez.
We're on the air with Dr Pele,who is an educator, a musician,
bestselling author and thefounder of Profitable Happiness.
We're talking a bit about wherehe came from, where his ideas
came from and why this is nowimportant.
Now we're gonna get into, afterthe break, some of his key
(15:41):
principles as to how to actuallymake it happen.
Stay with us, we'll be rightback.
Dr. Pelè (15:45):
Now, if you're just joining us my guest is Dr Pele.
Dr. Alise Cortez (15:48):
He's the founder of Profitable Happiness.
We're talking about his latestbook on the topic, in the system
and software he's devised toenable companies to achieve
Profitable Happiness.
I'm your host, Dr.
Alise Cortez, so let's getfurther into this, shall we?
I wanna start giving ourlisteners and viewers a little
bit more of the science and someof your methodology that you've
created.
Of course, you know I loveanything research-oriented.
(16:09):
I love your methodology.
You know I align with yourmethodology, so I wanna be able
to give our listeners andviewers some of the meat so they
can walk away already enabledto start to use this stuff.
So first, you, like me, do thisthing where you get research
because of the episodes that youdo, right?
So I read the books, you readthe books and that is a form of
(16:30):
your research.
So you have talked about howyou have developed some pitiful
insights from guests and thathas actually supported your
research, and that you actuallyhave found this model of an
acronym of happy that representsthese five key employee habits
that organizations need to buildcultures of high performance
around.
I think it makes sense to startthere.
(16:51):
What is this happy acronym allabout?
Dr. Pelè (16:56):
Yeah, no, no great question.
First of all, the happy acronymwhile some people may think
it's trite, is designedprecisely for the purpose of
making sure nobody forgets it,Right?
So it may be, oh, he's got anacronym called happy, yeah, but
you're never gonna forget that Ihave an acronym called happy,
(17:18):
right.
Dr. Alise Cortez (17:18):
It goes with you.
Dr. Pelè (17:20):
It just goes with you.
So that's the purpose ofdeveloping the menomic, the
acronym HAPPY.
Now, what it actually standsfor are the various elements
that create engagement, thevarious elements that create
positive well-being inorganizations, happier employees
(17:42):
and so on and so forth.
So, if you go back to theanalogy that we shared about the
goose and the golden eggs,think of the goose as the
employees and then, of course,the golden eggs as the outcome,
such as sales results, businessresults and so on, of employees.
If you kill the goose, you'regonna lose the outcomes.
(18:03):
Right, and that's what happenswhen leaders ignore the
well-being of their employees.
They're essentially killing thegoose.
So in order to make that goosehealthy, we need to focus on
five elements based on research.
Number one is, of course,happiness, but not hedonic
happiness, eudaimonic happiness,the kind of happiness that's
(18:25):
closer tied to engagement andflow and so on.
And if you wanna know the truth, I didn't wanna call my book
eudaimonic happiness.
I really lost the crowd.
I'm not sure it sounds verygood, but that's what the
science teaches us.
So I called it profitablehappiness.
That's where that name camefrom.
And then the next thing isappreciation.
(18:46):
So H is for profitablehappiness, eudaimonic happiness,
and A is for appreciation.
Research, study after studyshows, and even common sense
shows us, that when a humanbeing feels appreciated, they
will go the extra mile, theywill do better than they even
thought they were gonna do,because, guess what, somebody
(19:07):
cares about what I'm about to door about what I've been doing.
And the kind of appreciationthat carries the most weight
sure, peer appreciation is fineand so on, but the kind of
appreciation that reallyconnects with people is the type
that is given by managers.
Yes, now, appreciation isreally of two types.
You do a great job and you havedone a great job.
(19:31):
Right, there's what you've doneversus who you are.
And when managers are able toreally help their employees feel
appreciated as a daily practice, they are really creating a
productive employee, and that'san important number two.
Number three is pride.
Pride is another feeling, very,very under-researched, if I may
say that there's not a lot ofhard research on this, but a lot
(19:55):
of people have done great.
You know distributions on thisand I've read a lot of them, and
you know, we've found that if aperson feels by the way, again,
there are two types of pride.
There's a negative kind ofpride, right, a hubristic I'm
the best in the world, ha ha ha.
Type of pride, and we know someleaders who act that way.
Right, we're not gonna go there.
(20:17):
So there's the kind of pride.
But then there's another kind ofpride, which is a really strong
satisfaction and belief inpositive feeling around the work
one does or around the companythat one works for.
So I'm proud of my work, I'mproud of my company in a
positive way.
That's the kind of pride thatwe're talking about, and what
makes that pride possible againis when people give recognition,
(20:41):
especially when leaders andmanagers give recognition to
employees, that pride swells upwithin them and makes them wanna
even go beyond and do evengreater things.
So that's the HAP, and thefourth is the P, the second P,
which is participateparticipation.
A lot of people talk aboutemployee experience.
(21:03):
In fact, I would say there wasa battle between employee
experience and employeeengagement, and employee
experience is winning right now.
Dr. Alise Cortez (21:09):
Yes, it is.
Dr. Pelè (21:10):
People seem to see that as the more powerful force
of companies.
And it's all good, I saythey're all important.
But employee experience right,is impotent without employees
creating that experience.
This is the challenge that alot of organizations don't
understand.
You can't just command andcontrol, come down from the high
(21:31):
mountain and say this is yourexperience.
Guess what?
How about you invite thoseemployees to participate in
creating that employeeexperience?
When they take ownership of it,they will love it.
And that's the simple approachthat I take, with this idea of
participation being so important.
And the last thing, which is thewhy is for yardsticks, which
(21:54):
means measure everything,measure anything that you want
to turn into a culture or ahabit.
You gotta measure it.
Peter Drucker once said what wemeasure is what will be
improved.
I think I'm paraphrasing, buthe said what gets measured gets
improved.
I would agree, but I think amore powerful statement would be
(22:15):
what gets measured becomes ahabit Because you're always
thinking about it, you're alwaysdoing it, you're always
measuring it Before you know it.
The power of habits, thepsychological and cerebral and
brain power of habits, musclememory takes over and you now
have a thing that everybody justautomatically does.
(22:36):
So when you measure things allthe time.
You're building cultures,you're building habits, and so
that's what I have built.
My entire book, my software andmy practice around is helping
people implement HAPPY.
Dr. Alise Cortez (22:52):
Gorgeous, so beautiful.
You know I line with all that.
Okay, now I gotta tell you Ilearned so much from you and
your book about habit formation.
My friend, thank you for that.
So, if you would, I want you totake us into the ABC of habit
creation.
Dr. Pelè (23:06):
Wow, I love how you put it as ABC, because that is
really what it is.
Now, for those who don't thinkthey're as much of a nerd as Dr
Alise or myself, I'm gonna tryto talk about what ABC means,
because it is really the centerof habits, but not a lot of
people are aware of that.
(23:26):
In something calledorganizational behavior
management or OBM, or just thepractice of helping people
change behavior, even if it's ina home where people who are
challenged with behavior arebrought to, abc is applied to
them to help them build newhabits.
It's a well science backed,proven approach to behavior
(23:51):
change and creation andmodification.
Now, what does ABC stand for?
It stands for the three stagesof any behavior.
The first is what happensbefore a behavior.
It's called the antecedent A.
The second is the behavioritself and the third is what
happens after a behavior, whichis the consequence.
Now, if you go all the way backto Pavlov, for example, where
(24:12):
he was bringing dogs and I can'tremember what, monkeys, maybe
different animals, and maybe hewould give them a little
antecedent, here's the food andthat would act as the thing that
comes before the behavior thatPavlov wanted, and they would
get the food, do the behaviorand then they would get a good
consequence.
(24:32):
And if they didn't do the rightbehavior, they would get a bad
consequence.
So this is how you createbehavior in all, not only humans
, but animals.
So ABC is a well-known acronymand approach.
Now, if you want to build habitsproactively with human beings,
you got to go beyond ABC.
Now, this is what you will notfind in the literature, but you
(24:54):
will find it in my book.
What you need to do is you needto make every stage of the ABC
system desirable, because if youdon't do that, you're gonna
have apathy.
You're gonna have people notwanting to deal with making
habits.
Look, I gotta tell you, makinghabits is not easy.
It's hard work.
(25:14):
You have to challenge yourself.
Oh, I gotta get up right nowand go take that walk, or oh, I
gotta.
You know it's hard work, a lotof mental energy.
So if you don't make itdesirable, it'll never get done.
No habit will be formed.
So how do you make the ABCdesirable?
A, make it, get your attention.
So when it's time to do thatnew behavior, get their
(25:36):
attention.
Whether it's a loud bell thatrings or it's a sweetening of
the incentives that make youwant to do it, whatever it is,
get attention.
Then they do the behavior.
While they're doing the behavior, most people will quit because
they get tired, lack ofmotivation or something else.
So you need to provide them abelief that's the B, a belief
(25:58):
system, motivation to continue.
And then at the end, when it'stime for a consequence that'll
make them want to go back and dothe behavior, make sure it's a
positive consequence, make sureit's a celebration, because when
people celebrate, that's a C.
When people celebrate they getthe positive and the more
endorphins they feel the pride,they feel the appreciation.
All of those things make themwant to do that behavior again.
(26:21):
So if you want happy employees,use the ABC approach on the
concept of happiness.
If you want engagement, use ABCto build engagement habits and
so on and so forth.
And that's basically what mybook is about is how do you use
habits, which is like thesuperpower of human beings is
habits.
How do you use that to changeorganizations, from the employee
(26:43):
onward?
Dr. Alise Cortez (26:45):
That was so deliciously articulated.
Dr Pele, thank you, and I thinkthat's one of the most powerful
things about your book.
And you're right, what you havewritten is so crisp.
It delineates habits and accessto habits so beautifully and
compellingly.
I can't tell the number ofpeople that I've met who said,
oh, I got to get into anexercise program.
You're never going to get there, saying gotta.
Never going to get there.
(27:05):
So, ladies and gentlemen, ifyou care at all about habits,
it's really about creating aculture.
This is the book to pick up.
So, while I'm going to send youoff to Amazon or wherever it is
that you get your books, let'sgo on to our next break here and
then we'll carry on here.
I'm your host, Dr.
Alise Cortez.
We are the year of Dr Pele, whois an educator, musician,
bestselling author and thefounder of Profitable Happiness.
(27:26):
We've been talking a bit aboutsome of the guts of his book,
just what really makes theessence of it.
After the break, we're going toget into some of the more finer
details of it.
Stay with us, we'll be rightback and if you are just joining
us, he is my guest, dr Pele,the founder of Profitable
Happiness.
We're talking about his latestbook on the topic and the system
and software he's devised toenable companies to achieve
profitable happiness.
I'm your host, Dr.
(27:46):
Alise Cortez.
So for this last segment, drPele, I just want to, I want to
just dive into a few of theconcepts there were so many, but
just a few that I think arereally essential for listeners
of yours to understand why yourwork is so important.
So first we got to go into thiswhole idea of bidirectional
domino habit of listening.
I can virtually guarantee youthat this is a novel concept for
(28:09):
most organizations, as you know.
So could you talk a little bitabout this notion of listening
as an essential bidirectionaldomino habit?
Dr. Pelè (28:18):
Yeah, so first let's start with a domino habit.
So a habit is really a behaviorthat you have turned into an
automatic sequence using thepower of the brain.
I have right here a model ofthe brain, and the way it
basically works is, you know,inputs come in a sight, sound
(28:41):
and so on and so forth into theconscious brain, and if you want
to turn anything you'relearning whether it's riding a
bike or playing the piano or theguitar into a habit, then you
have to keep repeating it andkeep repeating it until you push
it down into the basal ganglia.
I'm looking, because I have amap on my wall.
It looks just like this.
(29:01):
I talk about this all the time,I love it, and so this idea of
habits, this idea of habits,it's really more than just oh, I
have a habit.
It's really a superpower thatwe humans have, and when people
know how to tap into habits,they can do amazing things,
things they didn't believe theycould do.
So how about we apply that toengagement?
(29:22):
How about we apply that tohappiness?
This is the thing that has notbeen done.
You know, we've tried manythings and, as we said, 30 years
have gone by and I don't thinkanybody has really brought the
power of habit making into thearena of engagement.
And so when we talk aboutlistening as a bi-directional
(29:42):
thing and as a domino habit, onehabit, one positive habit, will
create multiple positive habits.
That's what a domino habit is.
In my book I coined that term soI don't know if you'd see it
anywhere else so a domino habitreally is a big sort of a parent
habit that allows other greathabits to happen.
Let me give you an example.
(30:02):
If I say I'm going to loseweight, right, and I'm going to
have to maybe walk every morning, what might happen out of
walking every morning is I'llfeel when I come back, I got to
take a shower.
Now, if I was, because I'm hotand muggy or something after the
walk, if I was someone whodidn't like taking showers in
(30:24):
the morning, guess what I'mdoing now.
I'm building a habit abouttaking showers.
But that's not what startedthis.
I wanted to lose weight and Itook a walk.
So taking a walk is a dominohabit that gives me things like
brushing my teeth in the morning.
This is kind of an extremeexample, taking a shower but it
really is how you build otherhabits.
So in an organization, if wepick a habit and we say we want
(30:47):
to build engagement in order forpeople to be engaged, they're
going to start forming othersmall positive habits.
That's really how it works.
In order to support the parenthabit.
Now, the habit that I have foundin organizations creates the
best domino habits is listening.
Now you might say well, why,why listening?
(31:08):
Well, let's be honest, how welldo leaders really listen to
their employees and how well doemployees really listen to
leaders?
That's why it has to bebi-directional.
Now, leaders could say, hey,yeah, but we do these surveys,
we listen all the time, we getall these surveys and people.
But you want to know the truthEmployees don't like surveys
(31:30):
that much.
They're getting tired of them.
And so what they?
And, by the way, when they dofill out these surveys with
their suggestions and theirfeelings, nothing happens.
It's like their response isgood to this big corner office
in the sky to die and they'relike well, why am I giving you
all my great suggestions andfeedback and frustrations if
(31:52):
nobody does anything about them?
That's why you need thereciprocity, the bi-directional
listening.
I listen to you, you listen tome, I take action on what I've
listened to.
You can see that actiontransparently and we're doing a
back and forth.
Now guess who does a back andforth of listening and
responding and taking action?
A jazz band, right.
(32:14):
And so in my book, my centralanalogy is the idea of a jam
when impromptu jam, wheremusicians come together and they
listen to each other carefully.
They follow each other inwherever the music is going to
go, and that's how organizationscan improve their interactions
(32:34):
by finding ways to listen toeach other.
Now you will have to askquestions.
Pulse surveys are a good way todo that, but don't make them
long short.
Get to the point questions, butdo them more frequently and
you'll be getting that back andforth happening more like a jazz
band.
And that's what I've found tobe really powerful is
(32:54):
bi-directional listening thathas reciprocity and transparency
and accountability.
Dr. Alise Cortez (33:00):
Right, which is what allows.
Then the employees also startto weigh in with what workplace
do they actually want?
And the reason I wanted you tobring that up to Dr Palay is
that I've done many employeeengagement surveys with
organizations and I insist thatthey share those results, but
many organizations don't, soit's the black hole thing.
So now we need that circularpiece, that bi-directional piece
you're talking about.
(33:21):
So that's what I wanted you tofirst distinguish.
Now, second, if you would Iknow you'll know a lot about
this I want you to distinguishappreciation versus gratitude.
Dr. Pelè (33:33):
Now I don't know if I'm full down in a second.
I'm not sure I'm that qualifiedto appreciate, to talk about
the difference between gratitudeand appreciation, because
they're really they're reallyactually very different.
Appreciation is something thatyou can do to someone and maybe
there's another angle I'mmissing but you can actually
(33:53):
show appreciation to someone.
But gratitude is something youkind of have to generate
yourself.
You have to say you know what Ifeel.
I'm going to spend some timeand feel gratitude for this
thing that I have, and so it's apersonal, it's kind of a
personal action that you'retaking.
Versus appreciation really cancome from someone else.
(34:14):
Right, of course you canappreciate yourself too, but you
know other people can eitherappreciate you or not appreciate
you, and that can be a realproblem.
I think the big distinction isthe difference between
appreciation and recognition,which is another area where
people kind of don't really Okay, yeah, so for recognition, you
know recognition has been shownby a lot of research to be the
(34:36):
engine of pride.
This is what makes people feelproud of their work, is when
someone recognizes you.
Oh, wow, great job, that thingyou did.
And appreciation is really moresomething that people do to
show you about, to show you theyappreciate the quality of who
you are versus the quality ofwhat you've done.
Dr. Alise Cortez (34:56):
Yes.
Dr. Pelè (34:57):
So what you've done goes into recognition, camp
Appreciation.
Takes the who you are camp,right, it's sort of you know I'm
getting that personalconnection who I am.
And then the first one,gratitude, is what I need to
generate and feel by myself inorder to be happy.
In fact, the greatest tool ofhappiness is generating personal
(35:19):
gratitude for everything aroundyou.
So whether you're doing agratitude journal yourself or
you're just thinking about it,the blessings you have every
morning, that's how you createhappiness is through gratitude.
Dr. Alise Cortez (35:31):
Oh, I love that, and what's why I
appreciate that is you know, Italk to leaders and say you know
I do appreciate my people.
I tell them that and theyperform its duties every year.
Yeah, that's not it.
That's not what we're talkingabout here, okay.
So now I want to, if we can, Iwant to go a little bit layer
deeper here, this creating aculture of positive pride.
You give some tactics here andthere's about seven or eight of
(35:54):
them.
If you would just maybe speakto a few of them, because I want
people to understand that thisis actionable.
Dr. Pelè (36:00):
Yeah.
Dr. Alise Cortez (36:00):
How do we do this?
Dr. Pelè (36:02):
Yes, Now just to be clear, listening is on that list
, because listening is thatpowerful domino habit.
Yes, it is that makes peoplefeel, hey, if they're listening
to me, then maybe I can have.
I can feel psychological safetyhere, which is another one of
those items that you talkedabout.
Dr. Alise Cortez (36:18):
Yes.
Dr. Pelè (36:19):
Maybe I can feel free to give feedback, maybe I can be
, maybe I feel includes orinclusive or not.
I feel inclusive, maybe I feelincluded in this organization
regardless of my orientation orbackground, and so on and so
forth.
So all of these thingscontribute to a sense of
psychological safety.
It's hard for a person to feelpride when they don't feel safe
(36:43):
in an organization.
If you have a micromanagingboss, it's really difficult for
you to feel pride in the thingsthat you're doing, because guess
what they're doing?
It Right, yes, so all of thesethings are intertwined and I
highlight these things in mybook because the software that
I've built, called profitablehappiness, is a one-to-one
(37:06):
mapping of these concepts.
It's literally taking all ofthe science about psychological
safety and listening and allthese concepts and it's making
them tangible in software.
Why?
Because if you can go fromhappiness or feelings or
engagement to building habitsthat make those things real,
(37:28):
take action on them, that's howyou get high performance.
I call that the 3-H approach.
Happiness takes you to habits,takes you to high performance,
and the way you do that isthrough software.
Dr. Alise Cortez (37:41):
And I wanted you to talk about that, dr
Depele, because you and I havespoken over the few years that
we've known each other and then,most recently, about what
you've just recently created.
I mean, you've created aframework and supporting
software to help companiescreate these high performance
organizations through profitablehappiness.
So what I appreciate is it'sone thing to birth the concept,
the methodology.
(38:03):
It's quite another to go aheadand bolt on a whole software, to
actually engine it, if you will.
So would you say just a littlebit about how your software
works?
How does it map in and backinto your framework?
Dr. Pelè (38:18):
Precisely.
The first thing I would say isthat my software follows a
strategy.
I'm going to use anotheracronym called LEAP, and the
reason I'm going to use thisacronym is because it identifies
listening as the very firstthing that you have to do in an
organization.
The second thing is thatlistening has to activate
(38:41):
employee engagement.
By listening to people andmaking it reciprocal and making
sure that people know that we'rehere together, everybody
becomes more engaged.
So that's L and that's E.
That leads to action which,when repeated over and over,
creates these habits we've beentalking about.
So L E, a, and then, finally,it is when these actions start
(39:04):
to create the productivity thateverybody's looking for.
That's when we get highperformance, the P.
So my focus has been on how tobuild software that helps you
leap from where you are now towhere you need to be in your
organization, which is a cultureof happiness.
Now, how we do that is basicallywe help employees focus every
(39:25):
single week on one thing.
Now you may have heard, I think, they say whatever you focus on
is what will grow or what willbuild or whatever.
Right, that's just the way themind works.
The mind can't do two thingsreally at a time very well.
Despite what you've heard aboutmultitasking, the mind really
likes to focus and if it focuses, it does very well in that
(39:46):
thing.
So how do you help employeesfocus on something?
We ask them questions.
If I ask every time I see myson, hey, how you doing on that
math question there.
Next time I see him, hey, howyou doing on that math question.
Next time I see him, samequestion he's gonna go off
(40:09):
somewhere in his little worldand say you know what dad keeps
asking me about math?
What is this math thing?
And whether he likes it or not,he's gonna focus on math a
little bit more than he normallywould.
And that's how you get people tofocus.
So you build habits of focus onspecific things like engagement
, and that's how the softwareworks.
Every Friday you get an emailthat invites you to answer a
(40:31):
couple of questions aboutengagement, happiness or, if
we're using Dr Alise's book,purpose, and those questions
would help the employees overtime form habits and cultures
around those things.
And then from that data we takethat data about all these
questions we're asking over 52weeks of a year and then we give
(40:53):
them advice and that's where AIcomes in.
I know a lot of people arewondering whether AI is good or
bad.
Well, it's actually pretty goodbecause it can give you great
advice on what to do, given thedata that you have in your
organization.
So that's how our system works.
Dr. Alise Cortez (41:07):
Beautiful, and what a way to take us into the
finish.
My gosh, dr Pele.
That was so much Okay.
So you probably know by nowthat this show is listened to by
people around the world andthey are interested in helping
to create workplaces wherepeople actually thrive.
Wanna come to work and do theirbest, and we do business that
betters the world.
What would you like to leavethem with?
Dr. Pelè (41:25):
I would like to leave them with two things.
First of all, believe that it'spossible to build cultures of
profitable happiness, highengagement, high productivity,
purpose and meaning.
You do it using software likeI've just described.
And then the second thing I'dlike to leave them with is you
(41:46):
can get that software right nowfor free, because we are in a
pre-beta phase.
Our team has developed thesoftware and we are looking for
the right small to medium sizedenterprises or companies who
would want to implement it sothat we can track their progress
over time, because that databecomes the data we use to go to
(42:07):
market when we're ready.
So they become prototypetesters or beta testers for us.
So if anyone is interested inhaving software that really
helps you build your culture ofhigh performance, this is an
opportunity to get that withoutspending a dime.
That's my offer.
Dr. Alise Cortez (42:24):
That's a pretty good way to finish the
show, dr Pele Woo.
Bring it home.
All right listeners and viewers, you'll learn more about Dr
Pele and the work that he isdoing.
Where should they go, dr Pele?
What website?
Dr. Pelè (42:36):
Profitablehappinesscom is the software.
My personal speaking website ifanybody wants to bring me in to
come do a little speech is DrPelecom.
And then, of course, I'm onLinkedIn and my handle is Dr
Pele D-R-P-E-L-E.
Dr. Alise Cortez (42:52):
Thank you.
Dr. Pelè (42:54):
Thanks for tuning in to the Profitable Happiness
Podcast.
For more episodes, visitdrpelecom.
And remember get happy firstand success will follow.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.