September 25, 2024 • 37 mins
Summary
In this episode, Matt Coffy and SEO expert Josh Bachynski dive into the rapidly evolving world of SEO, emphasizing how artificial intelligence (AI) is revolutionizing the field. They discuss why traditional SEO strategies are becoming obsolete and why agencies must embrace AI to stay relevant. From the importance of fresh website launches to the shifting focus on content quality and traffic authenticity, the conversation highlights key strategies for success in the new era of SEO. They also explore the changing costs of SEO and the need for businesses to adapt their expectations and budgets.
Highlights
- 🚀 SEO is not dead; it’s transforming with AI integration.
- 🤖 AI tools can analyze competitor data and generate quality content efficiently.
- 💸 SEO costs vary widely; businesses should expect $500 to $10,000 monthly based on complexity.
- 🛠️ Starting fresh with a new website may be more effective than fixing outdated ones.
- 📈 Traffic remains crucial, but Google is adept at detecting fake traffic.
- 📝 Content quality and relevance are now top ranking factors for Google.
- ⏱️ Efficiency is key; SEO should focus on speed and effectiveness in implementation.
Key Insights
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📊 AI’s Role in SEO: Artificial intelligence has transformed SEO practices, allowing for quicker analysis and content creation. This shift emphasizes the need for marketers to leverage AI tools effectively. 🤖
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💼 Market Expectations: Businesses need to understand current SEO costs and expectations. Investing in SEO services can range from $500 to $10,000 monthly, depending on the business’s needs and market competitiveness. 💸
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🔍 Value of Fresh Start: In many cases, launching a new site can be more beneficial than revamping an outdated one. This allows for the integration of modern SEO practices from the ground up. 🛠️
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📈 Importance of Traffic: While traffic remains essential, relying on dubious traffic generation methods can lead to penalties. Authentic engagement is necessary for long-term success. 🚦
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🏆 Content Quality: The focus has shifted to producing high-quality content that meets user intent. Google prioritizes content that is factual and well-researched. 📖
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⏱️ Efficiency in Implementation: Speed and efficiency in executing SEO strategies are critical. Using AI can significantly reduce the time required for research and content development. ⚡
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🌐 Adapting to Change: SEO professionals must continually adapt to the evolving landscape shaped by AI and changing algorithms to remain competitive. 📈
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
one of my favorite all-time SEO gurus and I will use the word Google Google has to process like in the neighborhood of trillions of spam pages every year and every single one of them is a default WordPress install generally that they've never done anything not thinking of artificial intelligence and the way that Google is looking at the content rank I'm sorry they're going to be out of business uh very very quick quite frankly I mean people have been uh proclaiming the the death now of SEO for some time now but really really it this
(00:01):
is this is the final nail in like the old way of doing it coffin for sure you are going to lose you cannot compete with a company that makes a hundred billion doll profit every year and has the smartest programmers in the world you're a fool to think otherwise if you go fix their page speed from Orange to Green don't expect a huge ranking Boost from that so SEO is dead hey I'm Matt hofe I'm the proud owner of profit engines we're a media and Marketing Solutions partner I've been at this for over 14 years I built
and sold a multi-million dollar AG I've cracked the Inc 5000 list I put seven figures in the bank I've done all the things that have created an expert level of understanding of marketing and sales systems I've worked with over a thousand different clients on different sizes and different shapes all throughout my career and help them successfully move their business through these phases of implementation growth to success profit engines is really about delivering sustainable profit boosting revenue and driving growth for
your business so let's take it to the new heights for you well will you looky he who popped up on the radar screen josh bachynski one of my favorite alltime SEO gurus and I will use the word guru because it's better than Dudu and I think the important thing is that you amongst Barry and all the rest of these people that have been in the SEO world you still to me have got the biggest gravitas I've ever seen and I mean that in a nice way because you have really captured which I think most people don't
really realize the essential part of this business is Simplicity you get to the point and I think that's what most people miss out is that SEO and all the things that we've done over the last years in fact I think I've been at this for now 15 years comes down to making decisions quickly doing things efficiently and not Dilly ding on the small stuff so welcome aboard tell me what's going on in the josh bachynski world today well thanks Matt for having me on um as we were talking just before the show as I was mentioning um uh I'm still
running my SEO Mastermind group called SE University uh and I've been running that for about 10 years now and I can't believe the time has flown by I like that uh and uh I'm also running on CEO of my new company SEO co-pilot which is uh what I think we're going to talk about today it's it's uh it we were talking before the show AI is crazy in what it can allow you to do uh we were talking about how uh uh the emails we're sending back and forth are not really us writing it it's the AI talking to each
other which I I I want I did a whole strew of uh a whole slew of uh podcasts last year and the year before and I said that's what's going to happen right that's the most available thing for large language models to do is to is to write content and that's what people are using it for in the SEO world is to write content but they don't realize that if you program it correctly you can get it to analyze content as well and I have our SEO co-pilot and that's what it is it's an SEO co-pilot it's your
co-pilot it's analyzing millions of of uh uh competitor analyses for difficulty it's analyzing uh thousands of lines of code to to see what uh code you should be using what uh it's analyzing uh thousands of sematic keywords and re building you models that Google uh needs if you to rank on on page and it does all this for you at a fraction of like a 1% of the cost that people were used to pay for for for on page if you have a a serious researcher and writer at the agency level that's what the tool is
it's for all of SEO but I also want to help the agencies and 1% of the cost at 1% of the time from 20 hours per page we're down to like 20 minutes so uh it's it's pretty nuts pretty pretty crazy uh time we live in uh so I'd love to dive into it let's talk about it so SEO is dead let's start there uh yes quite frankly I mean people have been uh proclaiming the the death now of SEO for some time now uh but really really it this is this is the final nail in like the old way of doing it coffin for sure
uh for for two reasons one and both of them the single reason is artificial intelligence and I'll tell you why in two ways one uh the artificial intelligence that we are using that we can rebuild to uh Outsource uh now now people always Outsourcing writing and and and quite often analysis to either uh uh uh high high level professionals or lowlevel professionals respectively uh uh but now we're Outsourcing that to AI which does it much more efficiently much faster uh and uh uh in a way that human beings really
never could there's no way no matter how good you are at SEO and I've been doing it for 25 years no matter how good you are at SEO you can't go through 10,000 lines of HTML to see what the machine learned statistical average is for the page type you're supposed to be using no we seos just break it down into dumb categories that quite frankly are a little little simple uh and not representative of what Google does at all we're like we have a review page and an e-commerce page and an information page a blog page that's all bull crap
that's not how Google looks at it right they they have a giant database of machine learned HTML and they're like okay for this query people want this kind of HTML for this query people want this kind of HTM there's no way humans could do that so artificial intelligence has reduced the time for analyses reduced the time for and also for high quality level generation we're doing human level quality content that is 99.9% factual uh because uh I adopted AI at a very early age very very early on I was able to use my uh my academic my
graduate level credential to get the private demo of GPT before it was even chat GPT this is like six years ago now and I've been uh steadily using it and progressively programming with it uh since then the second way AI has changed uh SEO completely and SEO is dead is that that's all Google is using too people still think stop wordss is a thing and that links are a thing wrong links aren't even one of the top three ranking Al algorithms anymore they' fully admitted that uh multiple Google employees have admitted that our
scientific testing and university has confirmed that the biggest ranking factors and where Google is employing artificial intelligence completely is in quality uh uh uh uh onpage content on-site content uh those are the biggest ranking factors now and all that is AI all day every day as far as Google's concerned so if those people out there who are trying to do SEO are not using AI to generate the content and analyze the the the the competitors and not thinking of artificial intelligence in the way that Google is looking at the
content ranking it uh I'm sorry they're going to be out of business uh very very quickly but let's talk about traffic now it's always been a popularity contest right yeah so whoever the prettiest girl is they get all the attention so what about traffic as a part of this equation why many of the SEO gurus jockeys white hat Black Hat green hat purple hat are screaming hey let's artifici usally put traffic through your website your map location the ultimate gaze of Google's eyeballs are on how important is this property based
off of how you can bring traffic to it now some people and I even know one would actually go on to indeed create a bunch of job profiles that link back to a website that have a random keyword identifier that bring people to search boxes that create that random keyword identifier that link back to a website now I wouldn't of course be involved in this but there are people who are doing certain traffic analysis strategies that would propose that this website's important because a lot of people are going to it for whatever
reason what do you think yeah yeah um yes uh yeah yeah this is nothing new people have been doing uh this jobboard trick or variations of of it for 11 12 years at least um uh uh and a lot of people have done testing my group has done testing uh other groups have done testing uh and uh uh they found out there's a lot of different uh ranking factors and algorithms that are watching everything to do with traffic uh and if you've uh also perused the leaked API documentation that Google uh accidentally leaked we're not sure if
it's accidental or not but for two days on their a public GitHub the private repo of their a their their internal uh alphabet apis including all of the ranking factors were leaked and if you check that you'll see confirmation of various ways that people are using traffic tracking traffic things like that here's the problem with all those things Google is really really good at detecting fake traffic and every single test I've done and I've done a lot uh both the thing you mentioned and about 20 other ways of doing it 20 other ways
of doing that and 20 other ways of doing all the traffic things which you've only mentioned like one out of 10 that are ranking factors um Google is at the end of the day very very good at detecting fake traffic or B bot traffic uh no matter how good your cell phone stack is no matter how many you got in there no matter how good your CTR bot is Google is going to find that eventually if you make a technology bet against Google you are going to lose you are going to lose you cannot compete with a company that makes a
hundred billion do profit every year and as the smartest programmers in the world you're a fool to think otherwise as you mentioned I I I don't beat around the bush and I don't want to hear that I don't I don't want to see people lose their businesses because I get these emails from people Josh Josh Josh I bought this CTR bot or I bought these links or I did this my my my business is being destroyed can you help me and quite often I have to say no I'm sorry like you do you have enough money to pay me you
know 1,000 2,000 3,000 4,000 5,000 bucks a month to fix this no you're already below the red line well I'm not doing this for free you know I can give you some suggestions but you need some serious help you waited too long before you went to the hospital you waited too long before you went to the doctor right so um instead of using so people might be like well Josh you know what how do I get this then I need these signals to rank I I agree yes you do traffic has a very important ranking factor in the way
you mentioned in multiple other ways how do you do it well um how about the white hat way how about building 100 Pages a month and building up a huge site uh that you've already used the AI to analyze uh the low hanging fruit the most easy keywords to rank for that you would be surprised at this day and age that there are still huge Hidden Gem keywords because people are talking to their phone and so the keyword query is really weird or people are using the uh autocomplete so the keyword query is
(00:22):
very weird you know Everyone likes to think they know exactly what the users are typing no you don't no you don't it's all changed right and so if you're using artificial intelligence namely mine SEO co-pilot to analyze millions of competitors we we have over 1.6 million records in our database right now and over a thousand users if you use that tool to find the lowest hanging fruit we can guarantee to you a 60 70% indexation rate and about a 50 to 40% page one rate and a 30 to 20% uh one to Five Spot 1 to
five rate if you're following the tool correctly and you do all the things that you're supposed to do and then just do the math so where are you getting your traffic you're getting your traffic from Google you're getting your traffic from ranking in Google for actual keywords that are actually going to make you money because that's how our system works it puts up the ones that are easiest and make the most money we're not trying to rank you for eight eight word key longtail keywords that no one
types in one person types in a year look I got you rankings on an eight longtail an eight- word longtail keyword great but that's not making anyone any money you or your boss or your client and you're going to lose at the end of the day cuz as Matt Appley mentioned at the beginning it's all about efficiency I have a controversial statement uh uh let's see if you think it's controversial man you've probably heard me say it before uh ranking number one is not how you win at seo seo has nothing to do about ranking number one
that's not how you win at SEO how you win at SEO is ranking number one faster easier better more efficient ly and for a long term that's not risky in a way that you can iterate upon that's those six things that's how you win at seo seo is incorrectly lumped into marketing it's not if you if you wanted to talk about business philosophy and where they lump in SEO how they think about it from a an executive level uh position they lump it in the marketing ah wrong again it is a business process play it is all about
business efficiency and the most efficient SEO plan is the one that wins right if you have to spend 5 grand a month on newspaper links to rank for a keyword that only makes you $100 a month like with 20 other competitors who' been doing this for 25 years and already acrw all those signals you are going to lose right you have to get efficient you have to use AI you have to use AI to analyze all these things find the low hanging fruit the gem keywords find The Gem few hundred keywords out of the 20,000 keywords you you you got the
AI to generate for you and you need to build a bigger site faster better easier and give Google what they want make high level quality content like Josh I can't afford a writer who can do all this research to know you know I can't afford to do 24 studies but with AI you can with AI you can with AI you can get all the expert tips and tricks in 20 minutes right you don't your your your writer who's like well I've never written on this before I have to do 20 hours of research now they can do it 20 minutes
it's not required for that anymore right so um yeah I mean I I see a huge Revolution coming I see a huge AI Revolution coming and and I I I hope people listening can jump on the bandwagon at the right time which is now yes and I want to ask you real world applications so like you and I walk through our town we look at that place that business we look at this business over here and those businesses sometimes come to us and say hey Johnny marketer how you doing how about you help me with some SEO right and I'm not asking about
the lowball um let's just say pizza joint on the corner I'm talking about let's say a business that has a relatively okay budget has been doing marketing what should they expect to pay today what should they expect to pay for a general like a real business that has generating let's say whatever couple million 5 million whatever somewhere a real small General business that you see on your walk through your your town what should they expect to pay in order to get these results to help them solve these
problems which are generally that they've never done anything right yeah yeah that's a great question you know um uh uh I could answer it in a couple ways uh you know I always charge per the hour right and for a number of years now I've been charging for Consulting a th000 US per hour if you want to call me on the phone and have an hour conversation I would usually charge a th000 bucks for that I might I might low ball to 500 uh uh you know for whatever reason if I can use your content on my stream or something like that for my for
my uh my team however they bill out at 100 US per hour uh uh so a normal price there historically has been 100 to 150 but you know the the economy is changing uh there's been inflation lately although I think it's turning around now uh because I've seen some markers of that uh luckily uh thank goodness uh so what I would do is actually I'm going to ask chat GPT and I'm going to see what chat GPT thinks the the price for SEO should be right now do do you want to do this experiment do you mind if we do
this experiment I don't mind it at all I was just in general wondering what you thought of the market because we see a lot of let's just call it what it is there is a lot of marketing Bros out there today who are young who are aggressive and are running either Facebook ads or whatever they're doing right they're they're kind of saying hey I can get you X Y and Z results for X Y and Z cost I don't really follow the marketing Bros to the end conclusion to go test their theories out because I don't think it's really necessary but I
I'm curious just if you were to go to a customer to what they should expect today was a reasonable value of what they should pay and then we could reverse engineer maybe how we could come to that conclusion on what would be the right things to be doing for them either hourly which is sort of where you're taking this or task wise right which is there's certain tasks to be involved so that someone may be watching this could go to a customer and say I know Josh and I know his team can support your
challenge to try and find yourself in Google so we're going to come up with a plan that will be reasonable that I can come back to you and say hey it's going to take 20 hours a month which is $2,000 a month to solve your little red wagon and make sure that it goes through on the other side so that someone can find the Red Wagon as opposed to the blue wag but you can certainly ask chat GP I would be happy to do that in fact I'm excited to see what it would say sure okay so let me go here to chat GPT and I'll say hi
chat GPT I'm on uh a podcast now with my good friend Matt coffee and we're talking about SEO and uh we were wondering what lately the standard SEO retainer fee is per month what are seos charging these days per month and what kind of tasks or how many hours would that include what do you think would be reasonable for the customer to uh expect in that regard uh search Bing for this if if I say search Bing it usually says search bang so I have to spell out Bing search Bing yes so all right chat GPT is
thinking about it and I'll read it out for you it says SEO retainer fees can vary greatly based on factors such as the experience level of the provider the complexity of the website and the scope of work not to mention the competitiveness of the target market in general monthly retainers reso Service uh Services typically arranged between 500 and 5,000 per month that's indeed what what I would agree smaller businesses those with less competitive markets can expect to pay between 500 and 2500 per month this generally covers
basic SEO tasks like keyword research content optimization technical Audits and local SEO efforts midsize to larger businesses or those in highly competitive Industries usually pay 2500 to 10,000 per month and those campaigns often involve more complex services including National or International SEO strategies more extensive content creation link building technical SEO and conversion rate optimization so that's you got it there from the horse's mouth from Chad my friend Chad I call him Chad well what's interesting is that
that that really hasn't changed in a while I don't I think that that's been the sort of status quo which is is that you know and that's why I was saying like $22,000 is a pretty reasonable number for an expert to spend 20 hours per month on your let's just call it web properties because there might be multiple things involved here and I guess my question following that nice little Soliloquy you've put together from Chad is what do you think from your perspective execution tasks verse intelligent
conversations of that 20 hours per month let's say we're working on right now what would be the split because you need input yes yes yeah you're absolutely right because my time is is uh obviously I buil at a higher rate so for me I can't speak to anyone else but for me the way I do it and the way I would recommend my students in SEO University not all of them do Consulting many of them are in-house seos actually uh a lot of them started as Junior seos they moved to senior SEO and some have even
moved to marketing manager even two that I can think of moved to CEO they bought they bought shares they bought out the company and they became CEO but this is kind of this kind of is is true for any kind of SEO you're doing uh you always to start with an audit right you always have to start with a an an analysis if it already pre-exists or analysis of like a kind of like a SEO SWAT analysis the strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats if it doesn't exist yet they're going to be building it so I
always start with this analysis and usually the F the first month's cost is my time is me doing the analysis doing a very in-depth two three-hour analysis which I record on video and I have a full recording of and I also provide a plan they can join the video so we can discuss I also have some of my top students in SEO University they join as well uh so you get really good value for your buck and uh they notice things that maybe I might not notice and I've been doing these SEO audits oh geez for 15
years and I've gotten uh you know I'm I'm I I like to say that I'm an expert at it I've do done it a lot people who listen to my audits they always do get benefits I can think of like two audits off the top of my head of 15 years that that I did all I did everything and nothing happened you know I might have missed they had like a minus 100 penalty or something who knows those are back in really like more of the linking penguin days but but um yeah and so I start with an analysis portion uh and then I try to
(00:43):
uh uh you and one would do well to uh when selling SEO consulting services or even if you're an in-house SEO break it break down the system have an SEO system in terms of your workflow that uh kind of manages customer expectations and kind of runs itself right that way you know the the this the the CEO of the of the or the executive uh who's running the SEO project so to speak me in this case I don't have to jump in very much right I've already I already have standard operating procedures for all my
employees uh they're already learned up on all the SEO uh theories and and practices and so they can kind of just run on their own and and where that where the interesting thing is is where AI is really helping with that is before you know it would take again 20 hours to write a single page my my my writer uh she would have to research thing because she has she doesn't know anything about red sprockets or this you know she doesn't she doesn't know a uh uh divorc lawyer uh law from from this or that
right so she would obviously have to do a lot of research head hand a lot of client handholding a lot of stuff like that now with AI we can kind of just go and just generate we can generate dozens of pages of high quality good level content uh completely wh hat content right at a very very low cost in a very very very quick time so you know I'm not saying I try to get them to that as quickly as possible whatever I find in the audit is what we need to fix if it's all technical we need to do technical if
it's all back linking then we need to check that out if it's all this it's all that but quite frankly content velocity site size site structure site content onpage content uh uh query intent query interpretation uh helpful AI makeing sure you have helpful content review the review AI which applies to all Sites whether you're whether you think you're a review site or not the review applies to all sides because they want everyone to have expert tips and tricks and good content all that's on page anyway and all that's done by the AI all
that is greatly helped with the AI and down with the AI and uh so pretty much the the most important ranking factors and the most important steps in the project not to mention the uh keyword research portion before we even try to rank it for any Pages you know I I I don't let the client come to me quite often and say Josh I want to rank for chiropractor Winnipeg because I've been a chiropractor Winnipeg for 40 years and I know that's what they search no you don't no you don't keywords change all
the time we we it's our duty to find uh a winning situations for them uh I you know I I can't believe I have to give such an invective for this this used to be standard operating procedure 20 years ago everybody would fire up some tool and find the low hanging fruit right uh they still have to do that we still have to go do that and I okay look look here you thought chiropractor wpg was the the best one but actually the one that makes the most money and has the most searches and the one you need to be ranking for
is actually chiropractor wiip Pig Manitoba or or uh uh chiropractor and acupuncture Winnipeg Manitoba or some variation right and and they're like wow I never thought of that of course well you're not an SEO that's our jobs to go in and do this research and this analysis and our AI can go through 20 or 30,000 keywords in the space of like five minutes and find you hundreds of gem keywords that people just haven't thought of optimizing for or it's a new change in searching and so humans are now talking to their phone
and that that how that's how the query comes out and so yeah you got to kind of manage the customer expectations obviously and I do I I do and I would suggest everyone does the most important things first cuz you know you know if you if you go fix their page speed from from Orange to Green don't expect a huge ranking Boost from that right but if their on-site structure is bad or their internal linking is bad or some or or their on page structure is bad or they chose the wrong keywords to begin with
that's a huge pound-for-pound that's a huge ranking boost you're getting them in one move like all those three four things you're getting really big nice ranking boosts and that's why you should of course do those first to get them as much money as quickly as possible so then of course they can keep paying you uh and they can also uh have a much more successful business sooner faster better great fifth question for you final question for you so my thought has always been most companies that we go to
see including our own uh should basically just start over because the fact that we're running into a domain that's been sitting there for 10 years without any activity on it um has probably been built by someone who is either in kindergarten or in uh the first sixth grade uh class that taught some sort of um basic HTML um or WordPress uh outdated plug-in structure that basically is you know firing on all cylinders uh one out of 10 and I've always curious because I think I'm going through this and I'm being a
little bit more maybe selfish on this question I almost feel like we should just build from scratch based off of hey AI here's my business here's the things I want to rank for build me X to get to Y it almost feels like that should be kind of like the first step now and Aesthetics aside because I know that's a big concern for a lot of clients because they anticipate that people are looking at their website from a beautiful 49in screen uh in the middle of downtown Manhattan and making critiques on whether or not they should
have chosen blue or light blue in their header format but I think the question mark is are we really thinking now that hey let's start from where you should be and go from there because you'll probably be better off than trying to resurrect this dead body with one limb left on it and basically not any heart to it because that seems to be the issue that we're running into is that people are very interested in having a very nice website but that's not what solves the problem what solves the problem is
getting them revenue and it's almost an argument that I put up to say we don't want this what you want is to do it correctly and start from scratch because reality is that now we can do it with the snap of a finger using AI so pay the extra fee to have us do it correctly and you'll be rewarded what is your concern questions responses and overall general theory on this that's a great question uh and uh actually I just I guess this is on people's minds because I actually answered this question a number of times this week uh
including uh should I resurrect domains from the the internet archive or the Wayback machine or something like that um my answer it should should should I stay or should I go now uh should I should I keep this site or should I or should I make a new one uh I'm going to have a a fairly uh a a revolutionary answer I think I think the answer is both with AI you could easily generate 100 Pages a month 200 Pages a month 300 Pages a month and I'm not talking lowquality spam content I'm talking high quality
expert written eat content that is 99.9% factual that's the age we're living in so I'm like why have your cake and eat it too do both um if if if people are like I I don't you know that that if that's blowing people's minds I will I will fall back to to the next position but I'll say the first answer is the best one I'll fall back to the second position which is okay if the existing site has any current rankings on the topic on the topic you want to rank for in general then I would save that fixing
sites is not that hard if you already have some rankings of Google if you already have some good graces with Google they're already ranking you on page one for I don't know out out of 400 queries uh they're ranking 10 or 12 then keep it then keep it we'll fix it right don't throw the baby out with the bath water right however if the site is that goes the same with with something that you resurrect if you resurrect it and Google indexes it right away it starts ranking you know not great queries but
some queries in on the topic you want to rank for it has to be on the topic you want to rank for if it's ranked ring for for red apples and you want to uh uh rank uh best bicycles then no then then that's not the topic you want to rank for Google already knows this entity is about bicycles you you don't want to or red red apples whatever you don't the two do not meet right but if it's generally in your area and the same level of commerciality I'll use that as an actual word if you check the API
documentation it's an actual ranking Factor they have an integer it's a whole number a score for commerciality and so it's like it can't be this EAS and this mistake it's made all the time from people making too many blogs and stuff like that like you're ranking for all the informational queries on red apples but when you try to sell red apples you're not ranking for anything you're like on page four or dead okay that's not the same thing right so the topic you're trying to rank for is selling red
apples that level of commerciality is exact exact thing they call an API documentation if you have that already either on the old site when you renew it or the existing site keep it if you don't then then then uh do both or blow it away blowing it away can be dangerous they definitely do like brands that have been around for a while so if there's any way you can keep it and if you are uh uh uh on the right topic and level of commerciality then I would recommend keeping it but there's no reason why you
can't do both these days absolutely no reason it takes 20 minutes to register a domain name another 10 minutes to install WordPress without all the crap plugins and turn off all the crap blog things so you don't look like a spam footprint and don't put it at SL blog either if you're starting new don't put it at SL blog either just have everything come off the rout or if you need to have a directory make sure it's some directory that has something to do with what you were selling like uh uh uh not articles everyone says what what if
I call it articles yes everybody calls it SL articles so Google knows that's a synony for blog don't do that right again if you if it exists and you're at SL blog and you have rankings don't change it don't throw the baby out the bath water but if you're starting new make make sure you don't look like the like the Google has to process like in the neighborhood of trillions of spam pages every year and every single one of them is a default WordPress install with the blog roles and the tag categories
(01:04):
and all that at SL blog right so don't make yourself look like a Spam footprint would be another great really great suggestion uh and build both you could build both up at the same time and then if Google likes one and doesn't like the other 301 that one to the other one perfect okay so let's wrap this up we talked about the fact that SEO is not dead we talked about traffic we talked about pricing we talked about whether or not you should live or die with a new site and is there anything I should have
asked you that might have escaped my let's just say almost jaw likee brain uh that collapses down with ideas immediately on uh things that you have in your head did I miss something that was so obvious or something that you should have asked or responded to that maybe is important to this conversation uh it's a very self-serving uh question for me that you that you didn't ask and is do I have any coupon discounts for your listeners and the answer is yes I have 25% off coupon discounts for all of your listeners on
our main uh Flagship product SEO co-pilot all you have to do is email me at Josh bashinsky ata.com and say hey I saw you on Matt coffee show uh and uh I want the 25% discount and I'd be happy to to hand them out uh they're they're limited there's only 15 left so the first 15 people who email me I can give you a 25% discount uh and you could see how the AI works for yourself uh it really is a new age uh uh we're going to see AI in everything right uh but uh I'm happy to say that this is one of the
first I think AI tools that actually is worth using using complex what it's called Chain of Thought IDE ideation to actually think like an SEO consultant uh I was actually able to use my graduate work of psychology I like wow I never thought I'd ever get to use this but I did I got to put it in there and uh uh it's it's thinking on a higher level and it's called CP that's the name I called it short for co-pilot and it's a it also a chat B that helps you do SEO it explains to you but also builds it
through a normal ux tool I think it's quite revolutionary and I think your listeners are going to love it thank you Josh and again I have just for people who are watching or listening this for you the listener Josh and I have worked for a long time together and I'm talking like stuff back when the book with the hummingbird was on it that we were talking about and so Josh would only know that framework because it's probably still stuck in his library at some point um and so if you are an SEO let's say jockey just because I
think that that term is still still part of our vernacular in the marketing SL business world this is the guy and if you want some help please reach out to him and uh I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with next in our next installment so we'll catch up at some point in some further time down the road for a 2025 discussion awesome thank you Josh for joining me thanks mat e
one of my favorite all-time SEO gurus and I will use the word Google Google has to process like in the neighborhood of trillions of spam pages every year and every single one of them is a default WordPress install generally that they've never done anything not thinking of artificial intelligence and the way that Google is looking at the content rank I'm sorry they're going to be out of business uh very very quick quite frankly I mean people have been uh proclaiming the the death now of SEO for some time now but really really it this
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is this is the final nail in like the old way of doing it coffin for sure you are going to lose you cannot compete with a company that makes a hundred billion doll profit every year and has the smartest programmers in the world you're a fool to think otherwise if you go fix their page speed from Orange to Green don't expect a huge ranking Boost from that so SEO is dead hey I'm Matt hofe I'm the proud owner of profit engines we're a media and Marketing Solutions partner I've been at this for over 14 years I built
and sold a multi-million dollar AG I've cracked the Inc 5000 list I put seven figures in the bank I've done all the things that have created an expert level of understanding of marketing and sales systems I've worked with over a thousand different clients on different sizes and different shapes all throughout my career and help them successfully move their business through these phases of implementation growth to success profit engines is really about delivering sustainable profit boosting revenue and driving growth for
your business so let's take it to the new heights for you well will you looky he who popped up on the radar screen josh bachynski one of my favorite alltime SEO gurus and I will use the word guru because it's better than Dudu and I think the important thing is that you amongst Barry and all the rest of these people that have been in the SEO world you still to me have got the biggest gravitas I've ever seen and I mean that in a nice way because you have really captured which I think most people don't
really realize the essential part of this business is Simplicity you get to the point and I think that's what most people miss out is that SEO and all the things that we've done over the last years in fact I think I've been at this for now 15 years comes down to making decisions quickly doing things efficiently and not Dilly ding on the small stuff so welcome aboard tell me what's going on in the josh bachynski world today well thanks Matt for having me on um as we were talking just before the show as I was mentioning um uh I'm still
running my SEO Mastermind group called SE University uh and I've been running that for about 10 years now and I can't believe the time has flown by I like that uh and uh I'm also running on CEO of my new company SEO co-pilot which is uh what I think we're going to talk about today it's it's uh it we were talking before the show AI is crazy in what it can allow you to do uh we were talking about how uh uh the emails we're sending back and forth are not really us writing it it's the AI talking to each
other which I I I want I did a whole strew of uh a whole slew of uh podcasts last year and the year before and I said that's what's going to happen right that's the most available thing for large language models to do is to is to write content and that's what people are using it for in the SEO world is to write content but they don't realize that if you program it correctly you can get it to analyze content as well and I have our SEO co-pilot and that's what it is it's an SEO co-pilot it's your
co-pilot it's analyzing millions of of uh uh competitor analyses for difficulty it's analyzing uh thousands of lines of code to to see what uh code you should be using what uh it's analyzing uh thousands of sematic keywords and re building you models that Google uh needs if you to rank on on page and it does all this for you at a fraction of like a 1% of the cost that people were used to pay for for for on page if you have a a serious researcher and writer at the agency level that's what the tool is
it's for all of SEO but I also want to help the agencies and 1% of the cost at 1% of the time from 20 hours per page we're down to like 20 minutes so uh it's it's pretty nuts pretty pretty crazy uh time we live in uh so I'd love to dive into it let's talk about it so SEO is dead let's start there uh yes quite frankly I mean people have been uh proclaiming the the death now of SEO for some time now uh but really really it this is this is the final nail in like the old way of doing it coffin for sure
uh for for two reasons one and both of them the single reason is artificial intelligence and I'll tell you why in two ways one uh the artificial intelligence that we are using that we can rebuild to uh Outsource uh now now people always Outsourcing writing and and and quite often analysis to either uh uh uh high high level professionals or lowlevel professionals respectively uh uh but now we're Outsourcing that to AI which does it much more efficiently much faster uh and uh uh in a way that human beings really
never could there's no way no matter how good you are at SEO and I've been doing it for 25 years no matter how good you are at SEO you can't go through 10,000 lines of HTML to see what the machine learned statistical average is for the page type you're supposed to be using no we seos just break it down into dumb categories that quite frankly are a little little simple uh and not representative of what Google does at all we're like we have a review page and an e-commerce page and an information page a blog page that's all bull crap
that's not how Google looks at it right they they have a giant database of machine learned HTML and they're like okay for this query people want this kind of HTML for this query people want this kind of HTM there's no way humans could do that so artificial intelligence has reduced the time for analyses reduced the time for and also for high quality level generation we're doing human level quality content that is 99.9% factual uh because uh I adopted AI at a very early age very very early on I was able to use my uh my academic my
graduate level credential to get the private demo of GPT before it was even chat GPT this is like six years ago now and I've been uh steadily using it and progressively programming with it uh since then the second way AI has changed uh SEO completely and SEO is dead is that that's all Google is using too people still think stop wordss is a thing and that links are a thing wrong links aren't even one of the top three ranking Al algorithms anymore they' fully admitted that uh multiple Google employees have admitted that our
scientific testing and university has confirmed that the biggest ranking factors and where Google is employing artificial intelligence completely is in quality uh uh uh uh onpage content on-site content uh those are the biggest ranking factors now and all that is AI all day every day as far as Google's concerned so if those people out there who are trying to do SEO are not using AI to generate the content and analyze the the the the competitors and not thinking of artificial intelligence in the way that Google is looking at the
content ranking it uh I'm sorry they're going to be out of business uh very very quickly but let's talk about traffic now it's always been a popularity contest right yeah so whoever the prettiest girl is they get all the attention so what about traffic as a part of this equation why many of the SEO gurus jockeys white hat Black Hat green hat purple hat are screaming hey let's artifici usally put traffic through your website your map location the ultimate gaze of Google's eyeballs are on how important is this property based
off of how you can bring traffic to it now some people and I even know one would actually go on to indeed create a bunch of job profiles that link back to a website that have a random keyword identifier that bring people to search boxes that create that random keyword identifier that link back to a website now I wouldn't of course be involved in this but there are people who are doing certain traffic analysis strategies that would propose that this website's important because a lot of people are going to it for whatever
reason what do you think yeah yeah um yes uh yeah yeah this is nothing new people have been doing uh this jobboard trick or variations of of it for 11 12 years at least um uh uh and a lot of people have done testing my group has done testing uh other groups have done testing uh and uh uh they found out there's a lot of different uh ranking factors and algorithms that are watching everything to do with traffic uh and if you've uh also perused the leaked API documentation that Google uh accidentally leaked we're not sure if
it's accidental or not but for two days on their a public GitHub the private repo of their a their their internal uh alphabet apis including all of the ranking factors were leaked and if you check that you'll see confirmation of various ways that people are using traffic tracking traffic things like that here's the problem with all those things Google is really really good at detecting fake traffic and every single test I've done and I've done a lot uh both the thing you mentioned and about 20 other ways of doing it 20 other ways
of doing that and 20 other ways of doing all the traffic things which you've only mentioned like one out of 10 that are ranking factors um Google is at the end of the day very very good at detecting fake traffic or B bot traffic uh no matter how good your cell phone stack is no matter how many you got in there no matter how good your CTR bot is Google is going to find that eventually if you make a technology bet against Google you are going to lose you are going to lose you cannot compete with a company that makes a
hundred billion do profit every year and as the smartest programmers in the world you're a fool to think otherwise as you mentioned I I I don't beat around the bush and I don't want to hear that I don't I don't want to see people lose their businesses because I get these emails from people Josh Josh Josh I bought this CTR bot or I bought these links or I did this my my my business is being destroyed can you help me and quite often I have to say no I'm sorry like you do you have enough money to pay me you
know 1,000 2,000 3,000 4,000 5,000 bucks a month to fix this no you're already below the red line well I'm not doing this for free you know I can give you some suggestions but you need some serious help you waited too long before you went to the hospital you waited too long before you went to the doctor right so um instead of using so people might be like well Josh you know what how do I get this then I need these signals to rank I I agree yes you do traffic has a very important ranking factor in the way
you mentioned in multiple other ways how do you do it well um how about the white hat way how about building 100 Pages a month and building up a huge site uh that you've already used the AI to analyze uh the low hanging fruit the most easy keywords to rank for that you would be surprised at this day and age that there are still huge Hidden Gem keywords because people are talking to their phone and so the keyword query is really weird or people are using the uh autocomplete so the keyword query is
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very weird you know Everyone likes to think they know exactly what the users are typing no you don't no you don't it's all changed right and so if you're using artificial intelligence namely mine SEO co-pilot to analyze millions of competitors we we have over 1.6 million records in our database right now and over a thousand users if you use that tool to find the lowest hanging fruit we can guarantee to you a 60 70% indexation rate and about a 50 to 40% page one rate and a 30 to 20% uh one to Five Spot 1 to
five rate if you're following the tool correctly and you do all the things that you're supposed to do and then just do the math so where are you getting your traffic you're getting your traffic from Google you're getting your traffic from ranking in Google for actual keywords that are actually going to make you money because that's how our system works it puts up the ones that are easiest and make the most money we're not trying to rank you for eight eight word key longtail keywords that no one
types in one person types in a year look I got you rankings on an eight longtail an eight- word longtail keyword great but that's not making anyone any money you or your boss or your client and you're going to lose at the end of the day cuz as Matt Appley mentioned at the beginning it's all about efficiency I have a controversial statement uh uh let's see if you think it's controversial man you've probably heard me say it before uh ranking number one is not how you win at seo seo has nothing to do about ranking number one
that's not how you win at SEO how you win at SEO is ranking number one faster easier better more efficient ly and for a long term that's not risky in a way that you can iterate upon that's those six things that's how you win at seo seo is incorrectly lumped into marketing it's not if you if you wanted to talk about business philosophy and where they lump in SEO how they think about it from a an executive level uh position they lump it in the marketing ah wrong again it is a business process play it is all about
business efficiency and the most efficient SEO plan is the one that wins right if you have to spend 5 grand a month on newspaper links to rank for a keyword that only makes you $100 a month like with 20 other competitors who' been doing this for 25 years and already acrw all those signals you are going to lose right you have to get efficient you have to use AI you have to use AI to analyze all these things find the low hanging fruit the gem keywords find The Gem few hundred keywords out of the 20,000 keywords you you you got the
AI to generate for you and you need to build a bigger site faster better easier and give Google what they want make high level quality content like Josh I can't afford a writer who can do all this research to know you know I can't afford to do 24 studies but with AI you can with AI you can with AI you can get all the expert tips and tricks in 20 minutes right you don't your your your writer who's like well I've never written on this before I have to do 20 hours of research now they can do it 20 minutes
it's not required for that anymore right so um yeah I mean I I see a huge Revolution coming I see a huge AI Revolution coming and and I I I hope people listening can jump on the bandwagon at the right time which is now yes and I want to ask you real world applications so like you and I walk through our town we look at that place that business we look at this business over here and those businesses sometimes come to us and say hey Johnny marketer how you doing how about you help me with some SEO right and I'm not asking about
the lowball um let's just say pizza joint on the corner I'm talking about let's say a business that has a relatively okay budget has been doing marketing what should they expect to pay today what should they expect to pay for a general like a real business that has generating let's say whatever couple million 5 million whatever somewhere a real small General business that you see on your walk through your your town what should they expect to pay in order to get these results to help them solve these
problems which are generally that they've never done anything right yeah yeah that's a great question you know um uh uh I could answer it in a couple ways uh you know I always charge per the hour right and for a number of years now I've been charging for Consulting a th000 US per hour if you want to call me on the phone and have an hour conversation I would usually charge a th000 bucks for that I might I might low ball to 500 uh uh you know for whatever reason if I can use your content on my stream or something like that for my for
my uh my team however they bill out at 100 US per hour uh uh so a normal price there historically has been 100 to 150 but you know the the economy is changing uh there's been inflation lately although I think it's turning around now uh because I've seen some markers of that uh luckily uh thank goodness uh so what I would do is actually I'm going to ask chat GPT and I'm going to see what chat GPT thinks the the price for SEO should be right now do do you want to do this experiment do you mind if we do
this experiment I don't mind it at all I was just in general wondering what you thought of the market because we see a lot of let's just call it what it is there is a lot of marketing Bros out there today who are young who are aggressive and are running either Facebook ads or whatever they're doing right they're they're kind of saying hey I can get you X Y and Z results for X Y and Z cost I don't really follow the marketing Bros to the end conclusion to go test their theories out because I don't think it's really necessary but I
I'm curious just if you were to go to a customer to what they should expect today was a reasonable value of what they should pay and then we could reverse engineer maybe how we could come to that conclusion on what would be the right things to be doing for them either hourly which is sort of where you're taking this or task wise right which is there's certain tasks to be involved so that someone may be watching this could go to a customer and say I know Josh and I know his team can support your
challenge to try and find yourself in Google so we're going to come up with a plan that will be reasonable that I can come back to you and say hey it's going to take 20 hours a month which is $2,000 a month to solve your little red wagon and make sure that it goes through on the other side so that someone can find the Red Wagon as opposed to the blue wag but you can certainly ask chat GP I would be happy to do that in fact I'm excited to see what it would say sure okay so let me go here to chat GPT and I'll say hi
chat GPT I'm on uh a podcast now with my good friend Matt coffee and we're talking about SEO and uh we were wondering what lately the standard SEO retainer fee is per month what are seos charging these days per month and what kind of tasks or how many hours would that include what do you think would be reasonable for the customer to uh expect in that regard uh search Bing for this if if I say search Bing it usually says search bang so I have to spell out Bing search Bing yes so all right chat GPT is
thinking about it and I'll read it out for you it says SEO retainer fees can vary greatly based on factors such as the experience level of the provider the complexity of the website and the scope of work not to mention the competitiveness of the target market in general monthly retainers reso Service uh Services typically arranged between 500 and 5,000 per month that's indeed what what I would agree smaller businesses those with less competitive markets can expect to pay between 500 and 2500 per month this generally covers
basic SEO tasks like keyword research content optimization technical Audits and local SEO efforts midsize to larger businesses or those in highly competitive Industries usually pay 2500 to 10,000 per month and those campaigns often involve more complex services including National or International SEO strategies more extensive content creation link building technical SEO and conversion rate optimization so that's you got it there from the horse's mouth from Chad my friend Chad I call him Chad well what's interesting is that
that that really hasn't changed in a while I don't I think that that's been the sort of status quo which is is that you know and that's why I was saying like $22,000 is a pretty reasonable number for an expert to spend 20 hours per month on your let's just call it web properties because there might be multiple things involved here and I guess my question following that nice little Soliloquy you've put together from Chad is what do you think from your perspective execution tasks verse intelligent
conversations of that 20 hours per month let's say we're working on right now what would be the split because you need input yes yes yeah you're absolutely right because my time is is uh obviously I buil at a higher rate so for me I can't speak to anyone else but for me the way I do it and the way I would recommend my students in SEO University not all of them do Consulting many of them are in-house seos actually uh a lot of them started as Junior seos they moved to senior SEO and some have even
moved to marketing manager even two that I can think of moved to CEO they bought they bought shares they bought out the company and they became CEO but this is kind of this kind of is is true for any kind of SEO you're doing uh you always to start with an audit right you always have to start with a an an analysis if it already pre-exists or analysis of like a kind of like a SEO SWAT analysis the strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats if it doesn't exist yet they're going to be building it so I
always start with this analysis and usually the F the first month's cost is my time is me doing the analysis doing a very in-depth two three-hour analysis which I record on video and I have a full recording of and I also provide a plan they can join the video so we can discuss I also have some of my top students in SEO University they join as well uh so you get really good value for your buck and uh they notice things that maybe I might not notice and I've been doing these SEO audits oh geez for 15
years and I've gotten uh you know I'm I'm I I like to say that I'm an expert at it I've do done it a lot people who listen to my audits they always do get benefits I can think of like two audits off the top of my head of 15 years that that I did all I did everything and nothing happened you know I might have missed they had like a minus 100 penalty or something who knows those are back in really like more of the linking penguin days but but um yeah and so I start with an analysis portion uh and then I try to
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uh uh you and one would do well to uh when selling SEO consulting services or even if you're an in-house SEO break it break down the system have an SEO system in terms of your workflow that uh kind of manages customer expectations and kind of runs itself right that way you know the the this the the CEO of the of the or the executive uh who's running the SEO project so to speak me in this case I don't have to jump in very much right I've already I already have standard operating procedures for all my
employees uh they're already learned up on all the SEO uh theories and and practices and so they can kind of just run on their own and and where that where the interesting thing is is where AI is really helping with that is before you know it would take again 20 hours to write a single page my my my writer uh she would have to research thing because she has she doesn't know anything about red sprockets or this you know she doesn't she doesn't know a uh uh divorc lawyer uh law from from this or that
right so she would obviously have to do a lot of research head hand a lot of client handholding a lot of stuff like that now with AI we can kind of just go and just generate we can generate dozens of pages of high quality good level content uh completely wh hat content right at a very very low cost in a very very very quick time so you know I'm not saying I try to get them to that as quickly as possible whatever I find in the audit is what we need to fix if it's all technical we need to do technical if
it's all back linking then we need to check that out if it's all this it's all that but quite frankly content velocity site size site structure site content onpage content uh uh query intent query interpretation uh helpful AI makeing sure you have helpful content review the review AI which applies to all Sites whether you're whether you think you're a review site or not the review applies to all sides because they want everyone to have expert tips and tricks and good content all that's on page anyway and all that's done by the AI all
that is greatly helped with the AI and down with the AI and uh so pretty much the the most important ranking factors and the most important steps in the project not to mention the uh keyword research portion before we even try to rank it for any Pages you know I I I don't let the client come to me quite often and say Josh I want to rank for chiropractor Winnipeg because I've been a chiropractor Winnipeg for 40 years and I know that's what they search no you don't no you don't keywords change all
the time we we it's our duty to find uh a winning situations for them uh I you know I I can't believe I have to give such an invective for this this used to be standard operating procedure 20 years ago everybody would fire up some tool and find the low hanging fruit right uh they still have to do that we still have to go do that and I okay look look here you thought chiropractor wpg was the the best one but actually the one that makes the most money and has the most searches and the one you need to be ranking for
is actually chiropractor wiip Pig Manitoba or or uh uh chiropractor and acupuncture Winnipeg Manitoba or some variation right and and they're like wow I never thought of that of course well you're not an SEO that's our jobs to go in and do this research and this analysis and our AI can go through 20 or 30,000 keywords in the space of like five minutes and find you hundreds of gem keywords that people just haven't thought of optimizing for or it's a new change in searching and so humans are now talking to their phone
and that that how that's how the query comes out and so yeah you got to kind of manage the customer expectations obviously and I do I I do and I would suggest everyone does the most important things first cuz you know you know if you if you go fix their page speed from from Orange to Green don't expect a huge ranking Boost from that right but if their on-site structure is bad or their internal linking is bad or some or or their on page structure is bad or they chose the wrong keywords to begin with
that's a huge pound-for-pound that's a huge ranking boost you're getting them in one move like all those three four things you're getting really big nice ranking boosts and that's why you should of course do those first to get them as much money as quickly as possible so then of course they can keep paying you uh and they can also uh have a much more successful business sooner faster better great fifth question for you final question for you so my thought has always been most companies that we go to
see including our own uh should basically just start over because the fact that we're running into a domain that's been sitting there for 10 years without any activity on it um has probably been built by someone who is either in kindergarten or in uh the first sixth grade uh class that taught some sort of um basic HTML um or WordPress uh outdated plug-in structure that basically is you know firing on all cylinders uh one out of 10 and I've always curious because I think I'm going through this and I'm being a
little bit more maybe selfish on this question I almost feel like we should just build from scratch based off of hey AI here's my business here's the things I want to rank for build me X to get to Y it almost feels like that should be kind of like the first step now and Aesthetics aside because I know that's a big concern for a lot of clients because they anticipate that people are looking at their website from a beautiful 49in screen uh in the middle of downtown Manhattan and making critiques on whether or not they should
have chosen blue or light blue in their header format but I think the question mark is are we really thinking now that hey let's start from where you should be and go from there because you'll probably be better off than trying to resurrect this dead body with one limb left on it and basically not any heart to it because that seems to be the issue that we're running into is that people are very interested in having a very nice website but that's not what solves the problem what solves the problem is
getting them revenue and it's almost an argument that I put up to say we don't want this what you want is to do it correctly and start from scratch because reality is that now we can do it with the snap of a finger using AI so pay the extra fee to have us do it correctly and you'll be rewarded what is your concern questions responses and overall general theory on this that's a great question uh and uh actually I just I guess this is on people's minds because I actually answered this question a number of times this week uh
including uh should I resurrect domains from the the internet archive or the Wayback machine or something like that um my answer it should should should I stay or should I go now uh should I should I keep this site or should I or should I make a new one uh I'm going to have a a fairly uh a a revolutionary answer I think I think the answer is both with AI you could easily generate 100 Pages a month 200 Pages a month 300 Pages a month and I'm not talking lowquality spam content I'm talking high quality
expert written eat content that is 99.9% factual that's the age we're living in so I'm like why have your cake and eat it too do both um if if if people are like I I don't you know that that if that's blowing people's minds I will I will fall back to to the next position but I'll say the first answer is the best one I'll fall back to the second position which is okay if the existing site has any current rankings on the topic on the topic you want to rank for in general then I would save that fixing
sites is not that hard if you already have some rankings of Google if you already have some good graces with Google they're already ranking you on page one for I don't know out out of 400 queries uh they're ranking 10 or 12 then keep it then keep it we'll fix it right don't throw the baby out with the bath water right however if the site is that goes the same with with something that you resurrect if you resurrect it and Google indexes it right away it starts ranking you know not great queries but
some queries in on the topic you want to rank for it has to be on the topic you want to rank for if it's ranked ring for for red apples and you want to uh uh rank uh best bicycles then no then then that's not the topic you want to rank for Google already knows this entity is about bicycles you you don't want to or red red apples whatever you don't the two do not meet right but if it's generally in your area and the same level of commerciality I'll use that as an actual word if you check the API
documentation it's an actual ranking Factor they have an integer it's a whole number a score for commerciality and so it's like it can't be this EAS and this mistake it's made all the time from people making too many blogs and stuff like that like you're ranking for all the informational queries on red apples but when you try to sell red apples you're not ranking for anything you're like on page four or dead okay that's not the same thing right so the topic you're trying to rank for is selling red
apples that level of commerciality is exact exact thing they call an API documentation if you have that already either on the old site when you renew it or the existing site keep it if you don't then then then uh do both or blow it away blowing it away can be dangerous they definitely do like brands that have been around for a while so if there's any way you can keep it and if you are uh uh uh on the right topic and level of commerciality then I would recommend keeping it but there's no reason why you
can't do both these days absolutely no reason it takes 20 minutes to register a domain name another 10 minutes to install WordPress without all the crap plugins and turn off all the crap blog things so you don't look like a spam footprint and don't put it at SL blog either if you're starting new don't put it at SL blog either just have everything come off the rout or if you need to have a directory make sure it's some directory that has something to do with what you were selling like uh uh uh not articles everyone says what what if
I call it articles yes everybody calls it SL articles so Google knows that's a synony for blog don't do that right again if you if it exists and you're at SL blog and you have rankings don't change it don't throw the baby out the bath water but if you're starting new make make sure you don't look like the like the Google has to process like in the neighborhood of trillions of spam pages every year and every single one of them is a default WordPress install with the blog roles and the tag categories
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and all that at SL blog right so don't make yourself look like a Spam footprint would be another great really great suggestion uh and build both you could build both up at the same time and then if Google likes one and doesn't like the other 301 that one to the other one perfect okay so let's wrap this up we talked about the fact that SEO is not dead we talked about traffic we talked about pricing we talked about whether or not you should live or die with a new site and is there anything I should have
asked you that might have escaped my let's just say almost jaw likee brain uh that collapses down with ideas immediately on uh things that you have in your head did I miss something that was so obvious or something that you should have asked or responded to that maybe is important to this conversation uh it's a very self-serving uh question for me that you that you didn't ask and is do I have any coupon discounts for your listeners and the answer is yes I have 25% off coupon discounts for all of your listeners on
our main uh Flagship product SEO co-pilot all you have to do is email me at Josh bashinsky ata.com and say hey I saw you on Matt coffee show uh and uh I want the 25% discount and I'd be happy to to hand them out uh they're they're limited there's only 15 left so the first 15 people who email me I can give you a 25% discount uh and you could see how the AI works for yourself uh it really is a new age uh uh we're going to see AI in everything right uh but uh I'm happy to say that this is one of the
first I think AI tools that actually is worth using using complex what it's called Chain of Thought IDE ideation to actually think like an SEO consultant uh I was actually able to use my graduate work of psychology I like wow I never thought I'd ever get to use this but I did I got to put it in there and uh uh it's it's thinking on a higher level and it's called CP that's the name I called it short for co-pilot and it's a it also a chat B that helps you do SEO it explains to you but also builds it
through a normal ux tool I think it's quite revolutionary and I think your listeners are going to love it thank you Josh and again I have just for people who are watching or listening this for you the listener Josh and I have worked for a long time together and I'm talking like stuff back when the book with the hummingbird was on it that we were talking about and so Josh would only know that framework because it's probably still stuck in his library at some point um and so if you are an SEO let's say jockey just because I
think that that term is still still part of our vernacular in the marketing SL business world this is the guy and if you want some help please reach out to him and uh I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with next in our next installment so we'll catch up at some point in some further time down the road for a 2025 discussion awesome thank you Josh for joining me thanks mat e
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