AH_ Dumb and Dumber Talk Late Season Call-ups

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
And welcome back to Amateur Hour. I'm Adam, and with
me as always, just my wonderful co host. It's Trevor.
Trevor Or coach Houth. How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm good, Coach Ruth, referring to me coaching junior high baseball.
Now the school's underway and we got that going. But
I'm doing good. Just rolled in from a game and
now we're podcasting, and you.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Got a third cat. I mean, it's been a big
couple weeks for you.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, Now I have Springrel, Sprout and Ethel Beaver's.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I do enjoy the names quite a bit. Those are
pretty good. Is that yours or fiance's name choice?

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Uh? So Springrel came with the name, Ethel Beavers came
with the name, and Sprout we decided on the name together.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Is that a hidden love for Brandon Sprout?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
That is, we had a spring Roll, so we decided
Bean Sprout would be a good name. Unfortunately no connection.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Not as fun, but still still an approved name over
here for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, I don't. She didn't go for like McGonagall or
Clark as a name.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
So just one more cat for Denzel Clark and I
feel like you've got enough.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
I was even thinking Max Clark. I wasn't even thinking
Denzel Clark. Where is my head at?

Speaker 1 (01:31):
We'll get another one in there by the end of
the episode, I'm sure of it.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Oh I'm out of practice.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
I think, well, we'll get you back into practice. I
have a small rant and I want your input. The
first question I have is do you understand the current
rules that are set up for who is and isn't
eligible to be a part of the lottery each year?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I trust many people to tell me who is in
the lottery once it comes No, I have no idea.
I have some idea, but I'm not enough to talk about.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
That is a very fair approach. I, on the other hand,
am sick in the head and like to know ahead
of time because the draft cycle is all year for
some of us weirdos. And it came out this week
that the Cardinals are actually eligible, which is against what
literally everyone thought at the beginning of the year. So

(02:27):
the Cardinals can suck for a good reason, which I'm
happy about. But how as an attorney can I read
a rule and not understand it is a little scary
for my clients and also worrysome for the people that
I paid a lot of money too. I'm just it's frustrating,
but also like you know, best outcome possible. The Cardinals

(02:50):
can get Rock Schlowski.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Now there you go, losing with the purpose.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Exactly, and that's all that we ask for as a
tanking team, I mean resetting team, I mean rebuilding runway.
Whatever the netword is the.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
What's the hashtags? I remember there being like tank for
torque back in the day. Is this like rock bottom?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
No, I don't know if that's the official one, but
it certainly will be used now. I love that. That
was really well done, right off the top of the head.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Thank you. Yes, I I try, I really do.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Those are the things that we we bring you on
here for. I'm sure that that's where the has.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Nothing to do with baseball. I'm just here for the puns.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Ross pays you the very mediocre bucks for your puns
for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Gotta be good at something.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Hey, exactly the other thing I wanted to talk about,
it's become quite the hot topic. And again this is
very barely bit related to prospects or baseball or whatsoever,
but the conference realignment. Do you have a strong opinion there?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
You know, no interesting to see how it would affect
postseason more than anything. I think that at a point
it would if you do it. You have to keep
the big rivalries intact, like you can't. You can't send
a rival to a different place in that realignment because

(04:16):
that would just it would take away from some of
what sports are about, some of what baseball is about.
So I think that'd be My big thing is you
have to do it very carefully if you do it.
In my mind, and I'm very weird, I think in
this regard, at the end of the day, it's nine
innings of baseball with two teams out there, So it

(04:37):
might affect your postseason. It might affect your chances in
the postseason. That's all fine. I am technically a Tigers fan.
I'm a baseball fan. I just like watching baseball. I
like watching prospects come through the system. So I think
you want to keep some of those big rivalries, like
you're obviously not going to send the Yankees and Red
Sox to different divisions or conferences or whatever they're going
to call them. And there's some other ones that I

(04:59):
think you want to keep you've intact. But overall, it's
to me, it's just nine innings and two teams every
time out.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
I don't fully disagree with your your flippant opinion towards
this thing. I think that I agree with you the
rivalry should have more of a consideration over geographical considerations.
What I don't love is the idea of shoving the
Mets and Yankees, Cups and White Sox, Dodgers and Angels
all in one division. It just feels clunky to me

(05:27):
and like the weird easy way out. But I'd also
understand if that's how it all played out. But I'm
with you. The Cubs, Cards, Red Sox, Yanks. I think
those are two of the handful of rivalries you absolutely
have to keep as a Tiger stand though, if you
had to pick a team that you know is a
quote unquote rival that had to follow you, what would

(05:49):
it be.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
The White Sox so you can keep winning. No, I would.
That's tough to me. It comes down between the It
comes down between the Guardians and the Twins. I kind
of always have had more of a disdain for the
Twins from a Tiger's lens, or not the Twins the Guardians.
I've had a more disdain for the Guardians from a
Tiger's lens, but a huge respect for them from a

(06:13):
prospect lens. It's kind of a weird line to walk.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
It's probably a hatred because of a respect for how
good they've been at developing the prospects and backfilling. I mean,
that would make a lot of sense. I thought it
was more twins, but maybe this is a twins find
the Tigers more rivals than the other way around situation.
I have to let my twins fans know, friends know
that that the Tigers don't respect them as much.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I don't know if that's the case. I just maybe
I see I don't know. I think the Guardians have
just been atop the division for so long, like they
just haven't taken time off. And part of that's a
week that, you know, week al Central over the last
few years, and it's gotten a lot better now. But
I think they've just been on top for so long
that to me, they're the team you're like, you have
to beat them.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, that's fair. I mean it comes down to which
teams do you hate because you see them too often.
You don't hate fourth.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Place, No, you don't, you really don't.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
We'll get back into talking about prospects here. I asked
you before we started that as a setup so that
I can make my own rant for you to bring
one prospect you just wanted to talk about for you know,
the sake of giving your own little spiel. You mentioned who,
and I'm very eager to hear your who and why

(07:32):
because I almost made a trade for him. So convince
me that I should go back and fix that and
actually make the trade happen.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah. So my prospect, and I have been super in
on him lately, is Trey Gregory Alfered from the Angels organization.
He recently this month, I believe, was promoted to single
A and it's upper nineties, will hit triple digits. He

(08:02):
was up to one oh two pitching on the complex,
so he has really good velocity already. Obviously that's something
that gets chased nowadays, and he has good secondary pitches
to go with it. He had a rough start to
the year, but he's really come on as of lately,
and it's when I watch him, it's all pretty easy.

(08:22):
The whole delivery, the whole operation is simple. And since
being promoted to single A, he's still nineteen. He's striking
out nine per nine. His walks at three per nine.
This is through twelve innings, so you know, take that
for what it's worth. But you know, a point seventy
five e too. He's just having success and he started

(08:45):
to throw more strikes lately, and that's kind of gonna
be the big thing because he has decent off speed
pitches that'll play. He's got a good breaking ball to meet.
It looks like a slider, but I've been wrong before,
and he has a changeup that's flashed. He have, in
my opinion, three pitches that our average or better, with

(09:06):
two of them being above average or better. And maybe
the changeup continues to progress. But his fastball is at
least plus, if not double plus. With that velocity, he
doesn't strain to get to it, and he's got the
makeup there. Now will he throw enough strikes long term?
He has been lately. I think that's why I've been
so in on him, because he's showing us, hey, this
is what it looks like when I have command, when
I'm in the zone and it's working really well. And

(09:30):
are the Angels the team that you bet on to
get consistent command? That is a question only you can
answer deep within yourself. But I'm doing it. I'm all
over Trey Grigory Alford lately. I think he has the
skills and I think that there's a lot of projection
there for him to become a really good pitcher.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
If you had to put a number to where you
would rank him, what put a bucket in overall prospects?

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Overall prospects, Let's say in a ooh, how wide can
I make the range?

Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think the closer you get to five hundred, the
wider it can be.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
So oh yeah, I'm like way above. I'm super in
on him. I probably have him in that like somewhere
in that one fifty to two hundred range in right.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
I think that that's a fair bucket to have, And
especially if you're really in on a pitching prospect, that's
kind of how you have to respect them if you
want them in these dynasty leagues. But we're more real
life oriented, and I think you've sold me on this.
I need to go make this offer and shape it,
make it happen. It's our wonderful friend Jake that has him,

(10:45):
so we'll see if I can make it happen.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah. Hey, I've been wrong before, but when I watch
him I get I'm seeing it. That's that's where it is.
I'm just seeing it. When I see it with the guy,
I'm willing to push them aggressively and say, hey, this
dude's going to be And I've been wrong. I mean,
I thought Isaac Pachiko was going to be really good
and he's still in single a, I think for the Tigers.
So I've been wrong before. But I really see it

(11:09):
with Trey Grigory Alford in a big way.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
To echo that sentiment, And this is one that I
think has a little bit more following and backing. But
the one I wanted to talk about was Hector Rodriguez,
the Red's outfielder. For those that read the Daily Sheet,
you saw my accountability post where I said that I
was the idiot and dropped him earlier this year and

(11:33):
felt like I let myself be blinded by the fact
that he's kind of boring, blind the fact that he's
a really exciting prospect. What I mean by that is
across the board, I think he's just pretty good. There's
the biggest flaw he has is likely the fact that
he is a free swinger. Best thing that I can

(11:57):
say to combat that is he is a across one
hundred plate appearances in triple A, so not a high
sample size, but still not a small one. He is
making ninety one point five percent contact in the zone,
which is great if he's going to be a free swinger.
That's kind of contact he has to make. You add

(12:18):
to that, it's enough speed to make it count. I mean,
he's probably given the opportunity of six hundred plate appearances
in the MLB, I think you can get fifteen to
twenty twenty five solen bags. You probably get twelve to
fifteen homers. He gets on base probably thirty one thirty
two percent of the time. Add that all together, and

(12:40):
that's a very good prospect and real life that can
play all three outfield positions. I think that this is
someone that really can be one of those complimentary pieces
to a team that's very, very good. And I don't
think that he's getting the love he should. The back
half of tops just are filled with guys that should

(13:03):
be like this, and the fact that he's not getting
more Top hundred love right now is kind of surprising
to me. Every time I watch him. I mean, this guy,
he only strikes out fourteen percent of the time. Even
as a free swinger, the contact rate is that good.
I'm just I'm all in on him. I was all
in on him when he was younger and hitting for

(13:24):
more power. He has finally rediscovered it, and I just
think the Reds got an absolute steel when they trade
it for him.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I am with you on Hector Rodriguez. I see the
vision you mentioned. He's a free swinger that translates to
still low or at triple A mid teens strikeout rates
this year, and that's upper miners. That's double it's high A,

(13:52):
double A and triple A. So it's not like he's
striking out a ton. I think with him, it's just
going to have to be is he going to hit
the ball on the ground too much? Because free swingers
can have a tendency to hit the ball weekly because
they're swinging it pitches that aren't necessarily the ones that

(14:14):
they're going to drive. So how often is he hitting
the ball on the ground. I think that's kind of
where my head's at with him, but I'm with you
that it's there. I think he should be getting more love.
I think he is getting a little bit more love
lately now that he's performing at triple A, but yeah,
it will the free swing hold him back against the
best pitchers in the world is yet to be seen,
but everything says so far based on his performance, that

(14:35):
he should be able to hold his own I would say.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
And to your point, the ground ball rate at triple
A is forty four percent, so it's not astronomical. You know,
it's not in those sixties where everyone's like, oh, hold
the phone, this really won't work in the next level.
But it certainly isn't some you know, shouldn't be concerned
won't translate to fifty fifty plus at the major league level.

(15:02):
We'll see how it is. And I kind of think
that he is a sneaky call up for the end
of the year, depending how the Reds playoff run translates.
And I think that that's a good transition into kind
of what we're going to talk about here, and that
is those that have already been called up and ones
that we kind of think might be called up later
this year, and what we think their impact will be.

(15:27):
I don't think that Hector is any guarantee, but we'll
start with the ones that are guaranteed because they're already up.
Trevor I've listed a bunch of names. Is there one
that's speaking to you?

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Yeah, because I'm going to force you to talk about
JJ Wetherholt immediately, and I have my thoughts I would
like to hear. Do you think that JJ Weatherholt is up?

Speaker 1 (15:51):
So I The first thing I wanted to point out is,
at least yesterday's game, he was not in the lineup.
I don't know if he was in the lineup today
or expected to play today, or why he was out
of the lineup. I didn't see much news on it,
but there is speculation that, oh, this could be it.
I think that the Cardinals have such a roster crunch

(16:14):
and for the first time have this Rule five roster crunch,
that they are going to be too scared to use
a roster spot on weather Hold unless they feel like
they're going to get real aggressive with how they operate
this offseason, the big thing being their goal is to

(16:35):
accumulate upper level depth and also figure out who is
part of their core. I don't think anyone's asking whether
or not JJ is part of the quote unquote core
right now. He very clearly will be if it works out, great.
If it doesn't work out, that's not what they're thinking
about right now. They got to figure out of the Donovans,

(16:59):
New bar Us and Donnie or Gorman, any name name,
any outfielder, which ones they're going to keep. And so
I think with all of those considerations, they will keep
him down through this year. If they decide that, hey,
this is what's going to bring fans to the ballpark,
get us, you know, a few thousand extra tickets sold

(17:21):
every game, maybe they make the call. I just would
be surprised if I would be surprised, just with how
risk averse they operate.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I was hoping for more optimism out of you. I
really was, because my question to you was going to be,
do you really think the Cardinals that play in Saint
Louis would make a move like that because they are
really risk averse. They don't do this. No, And if
they are going to decide what outfielders to send, the
other teams are just going to be like, Okay, yeah,
we'll take the ones you don't want, because you know

(17:52):
Randi ros Arena A Doly Scarcia.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Layne Thomas for having Thomas for a season, Oscar Gonzalez
for about ten fifteen games.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Luke Void for a couple of seasons. Is not an outfielder,
but still it works.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Hey, Luke Void, the Cardinals have never shied away from
putting a first basement in the outfield, Luke woit was
as much of an outfielder as Jose Martinez was.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, so as Matt Adams.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Exactly. You're getting it, Blaze Jordan. Outfield experiment is coming there,
you go.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Someone's got to right. No, I.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Understand that. I'm sorry. I didn't set up you, set
myself up for you. But I just think that the
very pragmatic view is that it won't happen. He deserves
to be up. Though to be very clear, he.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Does because he's hitting the cover off the ball in
triple A. I don't. I'm with you. Even without having
known the rule five stuff in the back of my head,
I just didn't think they would do it. That's just
not how they've been.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Well in the is. They have really raised their top prospects,
specifically the bats, to the majors, and it's burned them
a bunch of times. Recently. Gorman Walker, uh, Carlson, I mean,
the only wind did not look good for his last
first twenty twenty five games. He certainly found himself a role.

(19:16):
But I just don't think that this it's a perfect
storm for JJ weatherhol to stay in Memphis.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I will say, just from my eyes watching you talk
about Gorman and Walker and even Carlson, JJ is different.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Oh yeah, he's different.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
It's a lot different the operation at the plate, Like
he's different. He dropped this guy because he was different
than them, Yes, and and I mean different in that
if you rush him he could still find his feet. Now,
I will say, this is this is the game of
baseball we're talking about. And he is hitting the cover

(20:00):
off the ball in Triple A and everybody's clamoring for him,
and that is the perfect setup for him to struggle
against big league arms. The first time he sees him
and everybody go, oh, maybe he's not that good. And
I think that's another thing the Cardinals might want to
avoid because that seems like something they would do.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
They're very cognizant of because they have seen at him up.
They're very cognizant of that.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, because I have seen it with Walker and with Corman.
But but going through like if you put all three
of them in their Triple A time together and you
put them all on the same lineup. It would be
jj Weatherholt standing out in my opinion, and that wouldn't
be close.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yeah, we're we're talking about the best hitting prospect they've had. Uh.
You know, I'm not going to say the same phrase
that every prospect has had in the Cardinals system, which
is quote unquote best prospect since Albert Poohles. But he
certainly is the best hitter of the group. And I'm
with you. I if they shoved him Saint Louis, I

(21:00):
would be super thrilled. I'd love it. I think he
would perform better than any of them did in their debuts.
But the business of baseball is the reason he won't be.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Absolutely Yeah, and unfortunately unfortunate for him because he probably
is ready enough to see his first taste. And it
wouldn't even be a bad thing for the Cardinals to do.
Because we're past the deadline. They still have a chance
for him to win Rookie of the Year. They still
could get a pick if he does, and they I mean,
obviously they still can. But maybe getting him that cup

(21:32):
of coffee is what helps him see what he's going
to be up against next year, and that would be
the reason to perform better.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, that would absolutely be the reason they do it.
The dirty large elephant in the room that is Ronado.
Reports are that they are expecting him to come back
and play. This is not a you know, kneel out
the clock situation, so that does kind of compliment or
complicate his playing time as well.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
He's not Anthony Rendon, he is not.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Sorry, I just forget you reminded me of that website
the Anthony is Anthony Rendome playing dot com or whatever
it was that tracks the exact amount of dollars that
he is quote unquote wasted.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Many.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yes, I won't bash the angels this episode. I do
it frequently, so we'll avoid doing that. You mentioned that
we are past the incentive deadline, so this feels like
the right time to bring up. Owen Casey was technically
brought up with forty six days to go, and I
believe it's because he is from the Toronto area, so

(22:41):
they wanted him to fly out with them to Toronto,
which is very nice. That does mean he's likely to
get sent down at some point, But do you have
any thoughts on Owen Casey.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, he's a power bat who strikes out a lot
so I am not, nor have I ever been the
biggest Owen Casey fan, because that's just a profile that
scares me endlessly. It was cool to see him get
his debut, especially debuting at home, and that that kind
of stuff matters. If you want to talk about Denzel

(23:17):
Clark again, we can do that right now. He got
called up and he was like, oh, for twelve with
eleven strikeouts, and then they go on this road trip
to Toronto, where he's from, and all of a sudden,
he hits his first home run of the season minors
or majors, and puts together a few multi hit games
like that stuff matters. So it was cool to see

(23:37):
Casey get that in his debut, and I kind of
thought he'd be moved at the deadline, but it he didn't,
and they good move by the Cubs, I think, to
not reward it that they didn't trade him, but to
you know, not sit him in triple A forever. So

(23:58):
you know, with Owen Casey, you've seen him whin than
I have. I just I think that the strikeouts are
going to be a problem at the big league level
for him. That's always been my take on it. But
he does have a lot of power, and he can
be really good when it comes together.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Absolutely, I think that this is of the Cubs prospects. Ballying,
Oh and case Here are head and shoulders above. Even
the views that I got with Matt Shaw at Triple
A they kind of make I went to a night
Cups game this past weekend for my birthday, and I

(24:35):
was telling people, who, you know, are baseball fans, but
not in the sickoh way that I am. They were
asking about who was there. That was interesting. The password
was there got to see Christian Campbell. So I pointed
them out and then I said, well, Kevin Alcantara is also,
you know, a big name prospect as well, and someone
who'd been to a number of Cups games goes, really,

(24:55):
he's never looked good when I saw him, which I
thought was a little funny, but it kind of goes
to show that that Iowa Cubs team has two tiers
of prospects, and I think Owen Casey is above is
in the top one. I kind of agree with you
that there's going to be a ton of strikeouts, but
I'm more optimistic about it working out overall. I kind

(25:16):
of think that the Cubs also feel that way. With
the fact that they didn't trade him. I think that
speaks to their beliefs on Kyle Tucker's re signing. Sorry
to break the news to the Cubs fans obviously can
be wrong, but I wouldn't get your hopes up there
either way. I think he's going to be one of
the more impactful players in the race. With how bad

(25:39):
the offense in Chicago has been as of late, He's
already out rbi'ed Kyle Tucker in the month of August
in his short cup of coffee. Really yeah, uh huh.
Kyle Tucker is still dealing with that finger. I'm just
so confident of it. But that doesn't change the fact
that he is not been good. And I think, oh

(26:01):
in Casey has been a breath of fresh air for
that team. Now that they are I think they're like
winners of four of the last five or three in
a row something like that. They're on They're on their
own little tear.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Well and like I said, good for Casey. They have
a lot of fun prospects, you know in the upper miris.
I was sad to see the Jackson Wiggins as shut down,
and I don't know if it's injurying. I haven't see
any news, but I know that he is shut down,
has been shut down for a while.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
I haven't been able to get any any word either way,
which is worrisome to me. So I'm with you. I
thought Jackson Wiggins was going to get I thought I
was gonna get a couple of views of him this year.
So we'll have to wait and see what that news is.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
I think he was coming. Was he coming off of
injury this year first? You know, yeah, first second year
back from injury. So he hid an innings limit, which
was about all he threw last year. So they may
just be like, listen, you've shown us a lot, you've
shown everything you can, but arm health. We don't want
you to uh.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Take way out. Yeah, very well, good and it could
very well have been a you're not making it to Chicago.
Let's not ruin a good thing.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah. Still sad because he's been lights out this year.
Awesome to see.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, I think he kind of goes along with this.
But but Chandler being called up, the big question is
what are your thoughts on the fact that it's been
announced he will be a bulk.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Reliever, I mean, good for the Pirates making him a reliever.
Not that he's not good, and not that he doesn't
have all the tools and skills to be a top
end rotation guy. But when you have a twelve percent
walk rate in triple A, I don't think you should

(27:47):
be rewarded with a rotation spot just because you are
a big name prospect.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
And it's a brave take.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Hey, look, if he's not going to throw strikes, it's
going to do more harm than good for him. So
put him in a role where he can throw one, two,
three innings and let him figure it out, work with
the major league coaches, see major league hitters, and maybe
all of a sudden you find the zone and you
can force your way into rotation. It's not unheard of

(28:19):
Troy Milton after the trade deadline was supposed to be
a reliever of the rest of the season. That's what
Scott Harris said, and he's he did so well. He
was back in the rotation after I think one relief appearance.
So it's not like he's destined to the bullpen forever.
This is just, hey, let's see what you got to
the big league level. Let's get you working with our coaches.

(28:40):
And let's see if maybe we can, you know, have
you throw strikes instead of walking four point seven seven
batters per nine And I'm not even again, I'm not
dissing his talent or how good his fastball is, because
he has such a good fastball, but if you're not
gonna throw strikes, that is a problem.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that that's
I was interested to see if they were actually gonna
get it done, just because of how the numbers have
lined up. I know that he had a really rough start,
and I know that jump to the triple A robozone
has caused a lot of problems for a lot of
young arms, So we'll give him that opportunity to figure

(29:22):
it out. I'm with you that I think it was
the right move to put him in the bullpen. I
know that that is not what fantasy players and the
fans alike want, but we'll see. Obviously, this doesn't play
into any playoff race other than I saw this fun
little thing. The Pirates aren't aren't terrible or obviously haven't

(29:44):
been good, but they are terrible on the road. They're
like eighteen and forty four on the road. So that
does mean that if the Cubs or Brewers go to Pittsburgh,
that could impact the playoff race. Just a little f
statics while looking up things fall to prepare for the episode.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
That is interesting, and maybe he's the guy that'll they
turned to affect that playoff race. But yeah, again, it's
just a matter of cleaning up whatever needs to be
cleaned up. And he had it in twenty twenty four.
He did not have it any other professional season twenty
twenty three, twenty twenty two, and of now in twenty

(30:27):
twenty five. And by it, I mean command and the
ability to not walk guys. So if they can find
that again, great, and I think this is a great
way to do that that doesn't harm his long term
value because as you said, they're not going to win
right now. If they were in a winning situation, they
A wouldn't call it Bubba Chandler or B would say, listen,

(30:48):
you are going to be in the rotation because we
think you can help us. So I think this is
them saying we want you to get major league experience.
You have a lot of potential, but we know that
some stuff needs to be fixed, yeah, or cleaned up.
And the other thing is his career high in innings

(31:09):
was last year. It was just under one hundred and twenty.
He's at one hundred already this year, so this could
also be their way of extending him through the rest
of the season.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
It's a good point and considered that either, that's probably
a majority of the consideration more than anything else, So
kudos to you for coming up with that. We do
have a couple more arms that have been brought up
that I think need to be mentioned, and I'll let
you talk about whichever one you think is more interesting.
But Nolan McClain with the Mets has been called up,

(31:40):
and Parker Massik was called up and actually started today.
I don't know how Nolan McLain has done, but Massik
went six and two thirds, seven hit, one run, six
strikeouts in one walk.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, Nolan McClain's the more fun one. Like long term.
Parker Messick has had huge strikes out rates throughout his
entire journey in the minors. But to me, in my opinion,
that is the Guardians adding another Joey Cantilla, which they

(32:11):
actually sent down in order to make room for Parker Messick.
I think Parker Messic is better than Joey Cantillo is
a slightly better version of Joey Kntio than Joey Cantillo is,
but both of them have really good changeups. Both of
them are low v low lefties, and you know, the

(32:34):
walks have kind of hurt Canteo. So I just think
they already have it, and I think that's going to
be super interesting to see how they navigate that going forward. Again,
I do think Messick is the better of the two,
and I am a big Messic fan. I actually had
him just outside my top one hundred entering the season.
He's kind of moved down the more I've watched this year,
not because he hasn't had success, just because I just

(32:55):
started to continually see Joey Cantillo, which also isn't a
bad thing. He's had success the big league, so you know,
he's I'm glad he had a good debut. McLean also
had a good debut. He went five and a third,
gave up two hits, he did walk four, but he
struck out eight. And with McLean, you're talking about a
guy who is focusing just on pitching for the first

(33:16):
time this year. He had been a two way player
up until this year and finally just ditched the hitting
stuck on the mound, and he has such a good
breaking ball. In his debut it hit thirty three hundred rpm,
which is insane, and it's his stuff is just overall better.

(33:36):
He's going to be a guy who can I think
can strike out a lot of batters. Obviously four walks
isn't great, but it was his debut, so we'll see
how that progresses moving forward. I love Nolan MacLean, I
like Parker Messick. Both of them are really fun for
their organizations.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
I think you said it all. I'm with you on
mcleaim being really fun. Messik's a lefty with a with
a pretty changeup. I'm in a sucker for it. You
mentioned the compte Joey Cantillo before we started recording, and man,
that's one to It's hard to get out of my
head now now that you've mentioned it. So we'll move on,

(34:14):
you can. We'll move on before I get too sad
about it. We have four bats. We'll start real quickly,
just briefly to talk about these because I don't think
any of these guys are super uh, there's nothing super
interesting to stay beyond. Nathan Church is fun. I'm glad
he got the call up. I don't think he is

(34:34):
much of anything beyond a fourth guy, but good for him,
organizational soldier that got the call up because Victor Scott
went down with injury. Then we have CJ. Capas the
solo and Dylan Biver's so I'll let you talk about CJ. Capus.
I know that you've made opinions known beforehand or before.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
On this podcast, even several times. J. Capus was just
hitting the ball. I mean, he had a three hundred
average with fourteen home runs between Double A and Triple
A this year, and then he got the call. His
strikeout rate was it was great. In Double A it
was under twenty percent at seventeen and a half percent,

(35:15):
and Triple A it got way. It went way up
by ten percentage points. He was at twenty seven percent.
Now he's sitting at thirty in the big league level,
so certainly things to figure out. He's hitting two thirty
nine in his fifteen games at time of recording here.
But the guy just hit. That's all he did going
through the farm system, and I have hope that he

(35:40):
will continue to hit and he will figure it out.
Despite his slow start. I mean, the jump from Triple
A to the majors is not nothing.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Some might say it's it's the biggest it's ever been.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yes, I agree. So I think he'll figure it out.
He's not the most fun hitter that got called up,
but I do think he'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
No, I think he's very similar in what you can
expect role wise, as like a hect Rodriguez's going to
be a good or or has a really good chance
to be a really good supporting piece. He's not going
to be some anchor or some stud I think that
he is just going to be very very good for
a while. I I just my concern and my only

(36:21):
thought is what do they do with Manzarto? Now?

Speaker 2 (36:26):
I mean, Capus can play the outfield, so he's got
a little bit more mobility than Manzarto. I mean, I
know Manzarto had some prospect coming over from the Rays
and joining the Guardians, but I guess he's been hating
better than I thought. I got twenty one home runs
this year, So I guess you just throw him in

(36:49):
your DH spot maybe, And whenever Capus is going to
be in the lineup, I don't.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, it's an interesting, interesting question that the Guardians fans
can worry about, but one that I thought. Lastly we
got the two Orioles, Sam and Bisal. I just I'm
interested to see how much he actually catches and if
they are going to treat him like a catcher. But
he's going to have an impact in whatever playoff implications

(37:18):
the Orioles will have. Dylan Biever's is the only one
that I think is super interesting, just because I don't
have a strong opinion on him, do you.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
I did when he was in his draft year. He
was one of my favorite guys in that draft class,
like one of my very favorite guys. I loved him,
and I.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
He's become a power guy.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
He's become more of a power guy, but he hasn't
sacrificed speed. I mean, you look a guy who was
what eighteen and twenty three for home run stolen bases
in Triple A this year and I know, I'm just out,
you know, spewing stat lines at this point, but he
was hitting three or four like the dude was, and
he was doing a lot of things on a baseball field.

(38:04):
And I think I think he's been very underrated, and
that definitely came with reason, you know. But he has
a lot of skills, and he's showing the skills. I'm
interested to see how that translates long term at the
big league level. He's got what four games, five games,

(38:27):
so it's hard to say that right now how it will.
But with all the things he can do on a
baseball field, he is a really fun call up, to
say the least.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
I agree. I think that he is the fun one
of this whole group because I think we can learn
the most about an individual in this scenario just randomly.
I'm curious how much he's gotten to play. He's played
all four games that he's been up, so especially with

(38:58):
Dylan Carlson and Tyler One being his biggest competition, I'm
just hopul to see upfielders. We all know how dangerous
they can be. But I think that he's going to
have plenty of runway and I'm excited to see it
all and form a strong opinion. I guess I'm just
he's just one that it's that corner outfielder with a

(39:21):
bunch of power. I know that he has plenty of
speed that needs to be respected. I just I'm very
cautious of that strikes out or that strikeout rate. I
know it was only like eighteen percent Triple A, but
Triple A pitching to major league pitching, it's a big jump.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, and it's been higher than that in the past.
This is this is like he might have figured something out.
I know he was on an absolute tear, but usually
he's been in that low twenties range, with a couple
of really small sample sizes where he was much higher,
but we don't count those. So yeah, yeah, the strikeouts
may be there. He also could strike out a lot

(39:57):
in this cup of coffee, come up next year and
have figured something out and the strike out rates back
down around you know, that twenty maybe even high teens rate.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Is this an audition for being a valuable trade piece?

Speaker 2 (40:13):
That is a really good question.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
I certainly would depend on how he plays.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
It would depend on how he plays. And also I
think it depends on how much you believe in Heston Kurstad.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I mean, if you think that you can roll with
Tyler O'Neill as one of your outfielders next year and
he can be healthy, then I think, really you're not
worried about a whole lot. If you think maybe cursed
ad Beavers and Kowser is your outfield moving forward? That's

(40:52):
another story too. I don't know that it's necessarily an
audition for a trade, but I think it's an audition
to see what you have going for because you have.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Options, yeah, and looking at their depth charts, I don't
think it's wise to trade him unless you're planning on
signing a big bet, because as someone who's watched Tyler
re Neal plenty, expecting or hoping that he's going to
be healthy is not a smart decision by any means.

(41:21):
But we'll move on from the those that have been
called up. I know that there's been a few more,
but I felt like those were the ones that deserved mentioning.
Now time to speculate a little bit again. I have
a big list here. We've added some that range from.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
The wrong list at the beginning well, and that's fine.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
I figured the excitement of JJ Weatherholt is plenty good
reason to skip. But we've got a bit long list
ranging from probably gonna get called up to almost no chance.
Where do you want to start here? Just a quick
PSA we required a few days ago, and some of
these takes were quickly proven wrong there outdate and with hindsight,

(42:07):
sound a little silly. I don't like to take myself
too seriously, and I feel like I speak for Trevor
here when I say neither does he. So I figured
this was a good opportunity to allow you guys to
laugh at how stupid we look now and also see
how quickly things can change in the matter of weeks,
especially this time of year. So yes, we know Carson

(42:29):
Williams got called up, even though you're about to hear that,
we didn't think that was going to happen. Jonah Tong
got the call up. A couple others either performed well
or didn't perform well. So just enjoy the opportunity to
laugh at a couple of knuckleheads and let us know
how stupid we sound.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
In your opinion, Robbie Snelling is an interesting case to
me because well, what do you think about Robbie Snelling.
Let's start there.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
I think that there was some There was a lot
of buzz for him for good reason. I think that
he is obviously very talented, arm his resurgence, to me,
has always felt very fragile, and that's a lot of
it comes down to the fact of how it kind

(43:23):
of collapsed back in twenty twenty four. So I don't
have again, I don't have a strong opinion other than
the fact that it's starting to look like that twenty
twenty four bump in the road was more bump in
the road than anything else, and that the Marlins had

(43:45):
a reason to want him, that they have figured something out.
We're talking about a guy that went from you know,
twenty percent strikeout rate, ten percent walk rate to currently
sitting at intripa a thirty three percent strikeout rate. Now granted,
thirty three innings. That's it's not a high sample size,

(44:06):
but that's not like two games and he threw he
struck out thirty three percent. That is plenty of batters
he has seen. And oh, by the way, with a
major league ball with robo umps this year, he is
only walking six point seven batters. So I'm starting to
believe that the Marlins figured something out with him.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, I'm with you on the resurgence being fragile, and
I you know, not to take again anything away from
his talent because he was showing early on in he
was one of the guys early on the fadres that
he was he had dude potential, like he was showing

(44:52):
that he could be really good. Actually, when I was
I rode him up because I was so interested for
the side I was working out at the time, and
I came way like, yeah, he's either going to be
really good or he's going to be a reliever. But
as it's progressed, like he is really good right now,
what scares me is, I'm pretty sure his blip last

(45:15):
year was a Velo drop, and I think it's back
up this year. And when there's just a random drop
in Villo and maybe I'm misremembering this, I'm gonna have
to look it up while you're talking next. But but
if it's if that is true and it is a
Velo drop, that's something that's really scary because there was
no news he was pitching through it, whatever it was.
And that's just something that's hard for me to buy into,

(45:38):
no matter how well he's doing in Triple A right now.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, I mean, we have plenty of these guys that
are very Velo dependent. Off the top of my head,
I don't know his Velo. I just know that his
fastball is not his best pitch. And you know, when
we talk about these lefties that have issues. It's the

(46:03):
Matthew Weber to a problem. If your fastball isn't good,
they could ignore everything that is good and wait for
you to throw a fastball so you I don't like
doubting him. I don't want to doubt him because when
you watch him when he's on, he does look like
someone who could be a dude. I think that the
general consensus that he is a dude is a little overstated,

(46:28):
and he's closer to back end in all things considered,
if that fastball isn't at least average, And I don't
know if I'm there.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
So he went from sitting like ninety three to ninety
five in twenty twenty three, according to what I'm seeing
right here on pipeline, when from ninety three to ninety five,
ninety two, ninety three to ninety five in twenty twenty three,
to ninety one to ninety three last year, which isn't
a huge drop, but it's not not a drop.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
So I've done some research on like done some research.
I have read others who have done research. Let me
be very clear there. It's good clarification, yes, very good clarification,
for many reasons. Those that are smarter than I have
done research and I have read what they have said,
and that is for right handers, the most important jump

(47:23):
in v low is from ninety four ninety five ninety six,
and for lefties it's ninety one, ninety ninety three ninety four.
If you can, you know, progress up to ninety four
as a lefty, you are better than those that are
under you. If you can get to ninety six as alrighty,
that is an important threshold for where your fastball velo

(47:46):
starts to become at least plus. Every step up beyond
that is less important than the ninety four and the
ninety six. So to go from ninety three to ninety
five or whatever that number was down to ninety one
to ninety three, it does make sense that he struggled
a bit more. And if it's if it was just

(48:07):
a blip, great, that does cause some concern for injury.
But again, like you said, there was nothing reported.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
I don't remember, yeah, I don't, and maybe again I
don't see everything, but I don't remember seeing anything other
than his velo was down and it's back up this year,
and when it's up, obviously, Robbie Snelling, is this this
is Robbie Snelling when he has his velo, and that's great.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
And I will say five days ago, I'm seeing an
article right now that says he hit ninety seven. That's
huge if true.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
And Pipeline sid he top ninety five in that blip year,
So like he's got that couple miles an hour back
whatever it was that was holding him back, And that's great.
And I want him to be good because he's really
fun when he's good, but just it just kills me.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
If he does get called up, which would be great
because we'll have better data and he can hold it
through starts, I would go into this off season very
excited if we see I don't like to plan for injury.
Even then that's probably the safest way to go about it.
And this is a little bit off topic, but I
don't want to plan for injury because if you plan

(49:15):
for injury for pitchers, you'll never like a pitcher. But
if we go into the off season he is showing
that he can hold ninety seven lad into starts because
he got called up and it goes well, I would
get unreasonable about him.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Yeah, I think that's fair. And even if he comes
this is I'm always more pessimistic in how I viewed
this stuff, so a pessimistic is the wrong word. I'm
just late on breakouts because I just want to see
it over an extended time. If he comes back next
year with the same velocity, this is a different conversation.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, I think we go back immediately back to it's
I don't want to say stud potential, but two three
potential where you start talking about how the Marlins did
it again they've developed another guy. Can it please be
noble Meyer next? Because my draft pick last year really
needs it to be. But I'm I would love for

(50:14):
him to get called up because I want to see it.
I want to watch him. I think he would be
the most interesting call up that can be made outside
of some stunner like Defrees getting called up or counographic
getting called up.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
I have Kevin McGonagall on the list with.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
You do. I'm gonna hold off on that one because again,
I think that's less far less likely. I think that
there is no The answer is definitely know, but I
would love it. I think he deserves it only because
number one prospect the second this offseason is potential. But

(50:51):
I think that's a different conversation. We have I think one, two, three,
four more pitchers that I think are on the more
likely side, Quinn Matthews, Brandon Sprote, Jonah Tong, and Andrew Painter.
Of those four, is there one that you really want
to talk about?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I want to know why I think Andrew Painter's likely.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Because they said at one point he'd be up mid July. Yeah, purely,
purely on that that they said he would be now
well and GMS and everyone lies all the time. They
they lie to your face and call you stupid for
believing them. But I think that that was purely just

(51:34):
if they needed something in the bullpen, this would be
a great chance. Now the results may not say that
that's going to be likely, but he he got put
in me likely just because someone said it was going
to happen a while ago.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah. So here's my thing with Painter, And we've actually
talked about this at length. I think as a as
a staff here in Prospects Live, and I was fully
in agreement. This is not Andrew Painter this year. This
is Andrew Painter the year after his injury. Next year
is Andrew Painter.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
For those that listen, because I talk about Bylows and
all that bylow Yeah, I love for sure, So I
would agree with he was.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Likely that he comes up this year, just because.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
I mean, we're talking about a ten percent walk right
in a twenty two percent strikeout right, So I.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
A north the PCL.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Well, it's a fair point. I this may be weird.
I don't get about triple adrash. I only care about
strikeout rates and v Low and all that stuff. I
should care more.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
But I'm with you. But when you're talking about a
guy who's the top prospect like Painter, I think era matters.
You want them I PCL. I will give the PCL
as much room to have a high ra as I can,
But in the international league, I feel like you want
him to have be dominant because that's who they're supposed
to be.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah, it's a fair counterpoint to Adam throwing things on
a page because he has exactly two thoughts at the
same time. So we'll call him less likely of the
three remaining. Who do you think is the most likely.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
One of the Mets? Gotta be one thing again.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
I almost think it's I and I haven't looked at
their forty man or their rule five or any of that.
I kind of think that they're going to cycle between
the three of them, find the one that's going to
perform the best, shove them into whatever role they need
in the playoffs, and the other two get to go
back to Triple A.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
I think Sprot's more likely than Tom because Tom has
just got the Triple A. Sprot was in the conversation
with McLean for the call up once they dfa'ed Paul Blackburn,
so I think Sprot is probably the next guy up.
I think McLean pitched way too well and they can't
just be like, no, we're going to try something else.
So I think there needs to be another opening. But

(54:00):
the second there is, or if they decide they need
a bullpen booth, I think it's Brandon's broke.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I think that's a that's a very fair thought process.
I personally wouldn't be surprised if the Mets, with who
is running their organization, with who owns them, would say,
screw it, let's see how all of them look.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Well at that point, just bring my guy Jack Wenninger up.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Honestly, looking at it, I mean, you're not going to
drop Frankie Montass, but you certainly can find that bullpen
does need help? Forgot how bad Ryan Helsley's been. I
think the Tiger's in trade for him.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Emma right, I mean, hey, Kyle Finigan's been pretty good
lately since the trade deadline. The Tigers have like the
fixed the best Bullpenny ra.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
How's how is fixing Paddock gone?

Speaker 2 (54:48):
That's great, It's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Is he back?

Speaker 2 (54:52):
He's so back?

Speaker 1 (54:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
I wonder what his stats are with the Packers, but.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
He's so back regardless, he's back. No. I I think
that that's that wraps up the Sprout and Tongue I
would agree. I wanted to make a better argument other
than tongue I think is a better picture. I can't
make a better argument just because of relative to how
long they've been in triple A, but tongu is. Is

(55:18):
Is it fair to say tong is a step above
McLean and Sprout and you can take his comments for later? Yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
I think it depends on how much you like McLean.
I like McLean quite a bit. Tong is probably better,
But to say a full step above, I don't.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Know that's fair. I added a couple bats that I
think are somewhat likely far less likely than the names
we've already mentioned, but I think that there's a chance
Bryce Eldridge comes up. He wouldn't deserve it with the
strikeout rates, but there's a chance because the Giants are
pretty far out of it now. I haven't looked at

(55:58):
the scenings, but I know that they've been one of
the worst teams since they traded for Rafael Devers and
then the Password himself. It's it's always been and it
always will be about an injury opening up playing time
for him. The last one that I think is sort
of likely but not really Suth Stewart of the Reds.
I think he's performed well enough to at least warrant

(56:20):
that discussion. Any comments on those bats.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
I don't, I don't know. I think you're right with Eldridge.
I don't think he deserves it. I'm with you on
the Password. He needs an injury. That's just a crowded
outfield to begin with. South Stewart is interesting.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Because he's looking at I didn't realize it was that good.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
And he's yeah, he's hid his way in And who's
I mean, are you really gonna miss key? Brian Hayes's
bat in your lineup. I know he's great defensively and
that's his value, but if you're.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
They certainly can't bench him after that trade, You're.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Right, they can't. That's a well, that's a point against
al Stewart.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Then I think you're talking about Gavin Lux needing to
be moved Miguel Andrew Harre. You certainly don't need Austin Hayes.
I mean the they have opportunity Miguel Andwar has performed
well enough that I'm sure that he won't be the answer.
But he's not part of your core and if you

(57:28):
really wanted to force him up, he could be dropped.
But there is opportunity for Sal Stewart, and I think
it's a fair conversation to have.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
That gets to move maybe steer to the outfield. You're
gonna have Stuart play first?

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know if that's it's what's gonna happen.
I think because of these issues and how unlikely it
is the Reds to make real noise in the postseason,
they probably won't want to risk it. But it's just
one of those where you look at how he's formed
and a he is another that isn't getting me attention

(58:04):
he deserves b I just looked it up. He is
not Rule five eligible until twenty twenty six, so it's
probably quite unlikely he gets called up, but he certainly
deserves it. How just in general as a prospect, where
are you at on Sal Steward?

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Honestly, I didn't realize how well he was doing. I
don't think that's a fair question for me to answer.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
That's fair. And it wasn't until earlier this week when
I was kind of looking at everything that I didn't
realize he was performing this well because I've always kind
of just thought it's forty five. It's forty five with power,
there's not a ton of speed, and it's a decent
hit tool. Probably I think he is more if the
power is a fifty five. I don't know if or

(58:48):
better as a fair statement to say on him either,
but if it's at least a fifty five, you could
you could have an impact bat that is probably a
fringe average to average hitter overall, and that's valuable obviously
for a team like the Reds. I just don't know
if he is someone that he's certainly not about to
put up a one to fifty WRC plus in the majors.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
No, so maybe I mean top of my head, he
maybe seventy five ish if you're just going based on
how well he's doing, if you're super in on him,
maybe pushing top fifty ish.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
And I guess my comments on his head tool aren't
fair because the man has not had a history of
striking out a lot, and he walks average or better
at every level. I'm the more I'm staring at this man,
the more in I am. And I've never been in
on him. So I think top seventy five prospect and

(59:46):
with a bullet is a fair comment. I just don't
know what the ceiling is, and that's probably what caps
his prospect status. I know that he has guys that
are really really in on him. Don't get me wrong.
I have seen him put in people. Was like top fifties.
I just didn't realize how well it was up to
this point. This year.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Oh my gosh, Aver GV ninety two point six, Max
EV won thirteen point seven. Maybe better. Yeah, Hard hits
forty nine percent just in triple A.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
But this is great podcasting from two very prepared individuals.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
I didn't expect to sell Stuart conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Now, and I will say to our credit here, the
quality of contact is a question just because he has
a high infield fly rate and a high home run
to fly ball ratio that I don't think sticks around.
I mean, it's been twenty two percent in triple A.
That is wild.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
And in my defense, I have an obsession with a
ball pitchers. That's what I like watching more than anything,
So that's what I spend most of my time at,
like your Jacob resna Han's and your Trey Gregory Alford's
and people like that. I just I can't get enough.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Yeah, I to wrap up the south Stewart, I just
I would love for him to get a call up
because he's another one of those where I think getting
to see what he is against the top pitchers in
the world would do us as fans service. But we'll
move on to the ones that are I think less likely,
and for the benefit of everyone listening, those that have

(01:01:21):
made it this long, I'll list them off. I think
that they are in a fair likely to unlikely order.
I will change one order here just slightly. But Trey
is savage, uh, Emmanuel Rodriguez, Carson Williams, Denser Guzman, Slash,
Nelson Raeda, Justin Crawford, and Kevin McGonagall. How many of

(01:01:44):
these do you think actually debut? Oh? None, Yeah, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
I put I put Guzman and Rada there because they're
the they're in the Angels organization, so I think that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
They have a Guzman I think has a chance.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
I think it's similar to Emmanuel Rodriguez, just purely out
of he could fit a need. And also the team's
not good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Yeah, but with the Manuel Rodriguez, wouldn't you be better
or equally as good as putting a statue up there?
He does not swing the bat. Yes, And I only
put Justin Crawford on here. I only put Justin Crawford
on here. I did that mid podcast because we were
talking about back to Rodriguez. You mentioned he's not like
he has that sixty percent ground ball rates. You know

(01:02:26):
who he does, and I'd be.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Like, that is exactly who I was referencing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
But I feel like he doesn't get dinged for it.
Everybody's still so interested in him. I get that he's
fast and he's putting up good numbers, but like he's
had a sixty percent ground ball rate at like every level.
This is not something that is new. And yes, he's
hitting three thirty four in triple A and you know
has stolen forty one bases, Like he has his skill
set for sure, but like, can we look at the

(01:02:52):
ground ball rate for a minute.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
I I'm one percent with you here on Justin Crawford
not being my cup tee, and I think that he
gets a lot of love. I do think that he
could fit a bench roll if the Phillies desperately needed
him to, I certainly would bank on it. I do
have a question for you, what is the strikeout to

(01:03:17):
walk ratio you would accept as some as a person
who swings less than forty percent of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Oh my gosh, is this an Emmanuel Rodriguez question?

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
It is. I want to luck to see what the
actual swing percentage is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
I mean, if you're not swinging, this is why his
walk grade was so high at the lower levels and
everybody was so like, oh my god, look at this.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
Guy walk right still.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Yeah, and his strikeout rate's going to be upper twenties
to thirty percent. It's got to be, And especially at
the big league level, if he's not going to take
these cuts, they're not going to throw him four straight balls,
like unless they're having a real bad day.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
So you imagine that these numbers at the big against
big league arms could go to the extremes where he's
walking like five percent of the time and striking out
thirty five percent of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Yeah, it's a twenty percent walk right in, a thirty
three percent strikeout rate over one hundred and seventy five
plate pants as a triple A this year. That's pretty
consistent with his brief stint in twenty twenty four. So
this isn't like, oh, it's it's just this year. No,
this is pretty consistent. Numbers really, forty percent.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Oh my gosh. So you think that's let's say four
it bats a game average of what four or five pitches, Yeah,
something like. So you're you're at sixteen to twenty total
pitches and you're swinging less than fifty percent of the time.
So you need, if you need to have a you

(01:04:53):
would need to have elite knowledge of the strike zones
where you never chase in order to make that work well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
In the his contact percentage is sixty six percent, his
zone contact rate seventy eight percent. None of this is
like elite number. His O swing twenty percent, which is
it was fair. But when you talk about a forty
percent swing rate overall, it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
A profile that works unless you are elite strikes on knowledge,
you never chase, and when you do swing, you make
contact and you make good contact.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
He is his I always one seventy four, so he
he is doing the quote unquote above average damage. That's
only five home runs though, because he doesn't swing well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Yeah, the power has always been there, even when I
saw him in Peoria, like if there's no doubt he's
a powerful hitter, but he didn't swing. He just doesn't
swing the bat. And that's you'd think.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
It'd be like I need to make Amo Rodriguez but
bit here, but.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
It's called the Twins. At some point you'd be like, hey, man,
do he want us to just take the bat from
you when you walk up there, or are you gonna
use it this time?

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Just give him a larger elbow guard.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
And I guess so he may walk a lot, But again,
I don't know that that plays at the big league
level because those guys aren't just gonna be missing by
a lot. They're not you know, you're there getting on
them to miss the corner when you have a three
and two count.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
And also if you have a history of not swinging,
they're gonna dare you to swing. Yeah, I mean, these
are just the best pictures in the world on purpose,
the best organizations with the smartest people telling pictures what
to do and what not to do. You're the best
catchers who could frame on the corners. I mean, this
is just again, I don't mean to go on an e.
Rod rant. I've never loved the profile, and after watching

(01:06:44):
him a couple of times, it really is wild. How
like going back to the one the most recent game
I saw of him in Des Moines, I think I
saw him swing twice. Just of four at bats, I
saw him swing twice.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
So and and I would love because he was the
inaugural Trevor hate your favorite prospect he was. I would
love to see his stats against Tampa Bay Ray's organization
because they're very much roll the ball down the middle
and let your stuff play a joke. His strikeout rate

(01:07:19):
has to be enormous against that organization.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Yeah, I he is another I would love to see
debut just to see what the numbers look like, because
I think that'd be But we have three of these
names that I think are two of them AO East
names that I think would quote unquote impact the playoff
race if actually called up Trey A. Savage and Carson Williams.

(01:07:43):
Which one do you actually think has a chance?

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Uh, Treya Savage?

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Do you think they throw him into the bullpen? Or
is he is he knocking someone out of the fifth
starter role out of the rotation that's been quite good.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
I think you put him in the bullpen mm hmm.
Just I mean he's climbed. He started the season in
what single a like, he's climbed the entire organization just
this year with good reason. And he is a good
option long term, like he's he has a lot of potential.
I'm a big Tray Savage guy. I mean that's ECU

(01:08:17):
all the way go pirates and I love that school
for never having attended anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
So he.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Has good impact, But he also has a really weird
delivery or delivery angle, and I think that'll play really
well out of the bullpen for what you need him for.
I don't think you need the starter right now if
you're Toronto, because you got a bunch of guys doing
better than they probably should be, and his weird angle

(01:08:45):
will help him out of the bullpen in short stints
and it gets him the experience, so I think the
bullpenner will be better for him. Carson Williams just to
touch on him. His strikeout rate is the only reason
I think maybe he doesn't get the call, and it
would scare me if he did.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Yeah, it would be a break glass in case of
emergency for the Rays. I think. I do think that
of those list, and there's the reason why he was
the name closest closely listed to salth Sewart is that
he's the only one that really has a chance. I
think when you brought up Denser Gruzeban, I think that
there's a small chance there. But I would love to

(01:09:20):
see him debut just because again go pirates, but I'm
excited to see what they can do. It's it's unfortunate
that the Blue Jays just have a collection of just
a weird collection of starters, all performing. Who would have
known Burrio's Gossman, Schuzer, Bassett and now Bieber would be

(01:09:41):
all on the same team at this point in their
careers and also performing quite well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
And if you had told me beginning of the season
that a rotation of Jose Burrio's, Kevin Gossman, Max sus
or Chris Bassett and you know, eventually Shane Bieber and
at different points I think, you know, Bouden Francis maybe,
but like I would have told you that, Yeah, I mean,
Trey Savage can make that rotation no problem without doing well.
Like it's not like they're doing poorly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Yeah, it's it's performance. And that's why when people were
talking about it at the deadline that the Blue Jays
were gonna add an arm, it was kind of seen
as a chakra, but my god, they did. We'll see
how that Shane Bieber's Toronto debut goes, but I think
that that kind of wraps up the speculative portion of

(01:10:26):
the call ups. There will certainly be more that happened
in the coming days. We did delay this episode specifically
A to see if weather hol would get called up,
and B to get as many as these in, but
we'll talk about more as they do arrive.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
The dichotomy of waiting on this episode to see if
weather Holk gets called up in neither one of us
thinking it's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Yeah, I just I thought that this. If the series
was gonna happen, they would announce it going with against
Miami and or we'd have an announcement shortly after the
Miami game tonight, and I just, yeah, I don't think
it's gonna happen, But either way, we're gonna go on
to a bit that we had done previously, and and

(01:11:06):
since with the draft and everything, we kind of had
long winded episodes that took away from this bring it
back it is Flashes plus and today I kind of
decided that I wanted to talk about arm as a tool.
I alluded to you beforehand that the purpose of this
is I had a conversation, a less than casual conversation

(01:11:29):
with someone about catcher arm strength specifically because Ivan Herrera
deserves better than what he's gotten. I don't think ketcher
arm specifically is as valuable as it used to be
now that all the new steel rules or steel rules
are in place. Outfield arm is still super important, shortstop,
third base arm, don't get me wrong, very important, but

(01:11:50):
the catcher arm specifically is one the one that I
had a gripe on. What are your opinions on the
arm tool? You know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
We've both written our fair share of prospect reports for
prospects live right, Yeah, how much does someone's arm play
into what you decide their OFP? Is whatever?

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Purely? The only time I really consider it it genuinely
is catchers up to this point. This is the year
where I've started to have that opinion, thanks Ivan Herrera.
Second basement slash shortstops. It determines if I think that
they need to move over to second and then corner outfielders,
So it goes more into positional viability rather than the OFP.

(01:12:42):
I don't think I've ever said, oh my god, look
at that seventy great arm, bump them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Up, And that's kind of where I'm at. It can
be exciting to have a good arm, like your Mason
Wins and your O'Neal cruises and your Ellie da La
cruise is. And it can also just be like a, hey,
this dude plays shortstop right now. He's got a strong
arm that means he could probably handle third or maybe
right field down the line if his you know body,

(01:13:09):
your actions don't allow him to wind up a shortstop.
And I think that's more what arm plays into. It's
always been more of a like seasoning to a profile
if they have it for me, not that it's not important.
It's obviously one of the five tools. But if somebody's
got a fringe arm and can hit the ball really

(01:13:32):
well and they take good routes, what you can find
a spot for. So, in my opinion, unless it's a
noodle arm, a thirty arm or a twenty arm, or
it's a sixty arm or a you know, seventy arm,
I just don't know that it's ever been that much
of a thought process for me when thinking about prospects

(01:13:53):
in general. And go ahead, Yeah, And it's just because
it helps if you have it. It's like speed. It
helps if you have it. It's notable if you have it,
it's not detrimental if you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Do you consider it as more of like a floor
raising or lowering rather than a ceiling raising slash.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Lowering probably floor yeah, yeah, because it's it raises the
floor of the defense, which raises the floor of the profile.
As much as everything publicly, because a lot of prospecting
publicly is fantasy baseball related, but as much as everything

(01:14:38):
publicly is geared towards offensive stuff, it just as it
kind of gets swept under the rug that if a
guy plays really good defense, he can be Cabrian Hayes.
He can have a role, he can have a sustained
role at the big league level, even if the offense
isn't well good or isn't as good as you want

(01:15:00):
it to be. So I think it raises the floor
of them as a potential major leaguer as long as
they can hit enough. Because you know, I don't mean
to bring up Delvin Perez again, but let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Yeah, it just is something that helps raise their floor,
like you said, because it gives them a role at
the big league level in some way, even if it
is just for defense or just for speed. It gives
them something to do, and it gives them something to
be good at while they try to prove, hey, I
can hit the ball too.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Yeah, and I think that it's again like speed, it's
one of those tools you can watch and admire in
person more than you really can in the numbers of everything.
I've never once gone looking for outfield assists when when
I want to, you know, consider a player for whatever.
But I certainly do notice when and not to go

(01:15:48):
to the same well that I always do. But they're
the ones I watch live. Kevin at Kantara has a
good arm. You watch it skip off the grass when
he's thrown it in and you know it's coming in
off a rope. It's fun when they at least make
a play that you don't expect because it's a good arm.
And inversely, I do notice when I'm watching a video

(01:16:09):
and I go ooh, that's not a great throw one.
Specifically this draft cycle, Dax Kilby was one that I
really like him. I'm excited to see. I think there's
a ton of projection. I think offensively he could be
a really fun prospect. That man is not a shortstop.
He is a second baseman. That arm is not good.

(01:16:29):
It's an awkward angle, and I don't think it's very strong,
and therefore not that I knocked him down by any
in any of my FYPD or draft rankings. It was
just more of I noted it and thought, no shot
at shortstop. This is a second basement and you're not
gonna love watching him throw.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
So I think it is noticable for sure. When I
was right after Max months he got traded to the A's,
he debuted in Lansing, and I saw his throwing motion
I'm like, that's a little weird, Like he probably is
just a second basement, so he is noticeable. And you
know when you're there live, whether you're a player, coach,
or eventually you know they're scouting, you know who has

(01:17:12):
the strong arm, and it's fun to see somebody with
a strong arm, even at the big league level. We
could probably list off everybody who has the strong arms
at the big league level, but that wasn't what we
talked about when they were prospects coming up the ladder.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Now you're not going to talk about Jonis Espadis's arm.
Everyone's seen the video of him throwing layers out from
right field. We're going to talk about the bor attack
or the fact that he hit tanks. So I don't know.
I just wanted to bring it up, mainly because as
a gotcha to the person that I was debating on
the arm discussion, getting my last words in, because I

(01:17:48):
am an attorney and I love to do that, but
also because I think that it's an interesting tool that
not a lot of people appreciate. But to your point,
I've never once considered it as changes the profile, like
if there's seventy power, that changes the profile. If there's
a seventy hit that changed the profile. If there's seventy

(01:18:09):
speed that Chandler Simpson's profile doesn't work without seventy speed.
You give him seventy arm and fifty speed. He's never
touched the majors.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Yeah, absolutely, So.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Well, unless you have any other thoughts, we'll move again
to our next segment, which is my favorite. You can
all say it with me. It's Trevor hates your favorite prospect. Trevor,
who did you bring for us tonight?

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
We need more guests I had. I had several weeks
off of this and it was just the best time
of my life. So today I bring you Jonah Hong
and that is probably like not a good one to bring,
but that's who I brought, So we're gonna have. You
just got to sit through it. Jonatong has ridiculous strikeout

(01:19:03):
rates and an enormous ceiling and long term, Jonahtong looks
like a very very talented arm. This is not me
saying Jonahtong is not as good as you think he is.
Jonahtong is exactly as good as you think he is.
He has the swing and miss stuff and he's shown
it time and time again, he has like a thirty
three percent strikeout rate. I struck out four times just

(01:19:25):
during this rambling that I've done. Now. The reason that
I bring him for this segment today is that if
he does get the promotion, and you know, you see
all the buzz that the fans want him up, they
want to see Jonahtong, I do think it is going
to take a minute. I don't think this is going
to be instant success at the big league level. I

(01:19:48):
don't think the command is quite there for him to
be the Jonahtong that we all want to see. Pulled
up a start just before this to make sure that
I knew what I was talking about, and the first
two winnings he spiked two balls. Like It's just there's
something there that I think needs to be figured out
from a command standpoint. And I think he absolutely can

(01:20:10):
get there, and I think he absolutely will have plenty
of strikeouts, but I'm I'm concerned a little bit, and
I when I say a little bit, I mean just
a little bit about how the how the command will
play in his first taste of major league baseball against
these hitters. I hate this segment just to go on

(01:20:31):
the on the record because I do like Jonahtong, and
I do think Jonahtong is going to be a very
good major league pitcher. I just don't think it's going
to be as quickly as everybody says. And that is
why I brought Jonah Tong today.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
It is impressive to have a thirty plus K minus
BB while also walking nine percent of batters. It's just
it just is. That is in his triple A start.
So again it's the one start, but that's still a
fun outing. We can go back to the double A

(01:21:05):
out double A numbers, which is one hundred and two
innings from this year, and oh, look at that, it's
still roughly thirty percent if we round up, which we
do here, uh for k rate, that is astonished. That
is Mason Miller out of the bullpen numbers and an
eleven point one percent walk rate. So that it brings

(01:21:27):
up the point we talked about it a little earlier,
and you said that you think it's unlikely if the
Mets had, let's say, Ryan Helsley's arm issue, or Ryan
Helsley pops up a shoulder issue and they decide that
sprote isn't the answer in the bullpen. McLain isn't going
to the bullpen, and they go screw it. Jonah Thom,
do you think his you know, a strategy of throw

(01:21:51):
it down the middle, let it eat and make them
hit it would work out of the bullpen for a
short run.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
I do. I do think that would not be the
worst thing for him, because he can see how his
stuff plays against big league hitters, and he has the
swing and miss stuff, like you can't debate he has
swing and miss stuff. I would never come out here
and tell you he doesn't have swing and miss stuff
because forty percent is bonkers.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
You can't fake that intrip a right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
So, and the other thing is, you know, he's got
that big delivery where everything comes all the way around
the world and he reaches out so far with his
glove and his front foot like it is weird. It
is a little weird. And so I think that in
short spurts that will absolutely work. While he figures out
how to use his stuff against big league hitters, he

(01:22:41):
figures out where to put his stuff against big league hitters,
and frankly figures out how to just throw the strikes
he needs to throw against big league's hitters.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
Yeah, I kind of I agree with you. And that's
what I was trying to elicit it out of you,
was that a bullpen stint could be really, really fun
for him. It also could be the inverse of the
e Rod situation, where you're going to have major leaguers say,
I dare you to throw a strike before I swing
at it. And and this is not to say this

(01:23:11):
is someone with some ridiculous like eighteen percent walk rates.
It's nine. It averages out two. An eleven percent walk rate.
It's not good, but pitchers have succeeded with walk rates
that high in the minors.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
We has on and we made joke about Gene Martinez
and not knowing where the ball's going. That's not that
is not Jonatong. He just has a higher walk rate,
and I think that's going to hinder his immediate success
at the big league level.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
He's not my only point here.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
This is my only point here.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
He's not going to break your apartment window. He might
break your car with you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
No, I I just think I think I'm glad you
brought him because I think it's a it's a good
point of Hey, there is zero proof that this man
can't strike batters out, he will strike batters out. It's
going to be a lot of fun the majors. If
the walk rate isn't something that he can get below,
you know, keep below the eleven percent. At the major

(01:24:09):
league level, very few get to stay that long. He'll
be given every opportunity to but it certainly won't be
this year. And if it doesn't work out the Mets,
they have unlimited resources. They will buy someone that can't
take his spot. Yeah, you heard it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
He as good as you think he is. I cannot
stress that enough. He is as good and as talented
as you think he is. It's just prospect development is
not a straight line.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
You heard it here. First, Trevor thinks Jonah Than is
a reliever and nothing more.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
With that, we'll wrap it up. Trevor. I appreciate your time. Everyone,
thanks for listening. I'm Adam. That's Trevor. We'll see you
next time.

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