December 9, 2025 • 14 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me now on the Java House Peel and Poor
Guest line. You hear him on this show, I would
say nearly weekly because there are always new injuries to
talk about. He is the foremost expert when it comes
to athletic training. Ralph Reef dot com r e i
f f dot com. You should go to the website
just to look at the different places in which Ralph
(00:20):
has worked as an athletic trainer and the different places
in which he's had an impact on that profession, because
that alone is impressive. But he joins us now in
the program, and Ralph, I want to begin with this.
I appreciate the time before we get into the Daniel
Jones injury. Riley Leonard, who is a player that trained
going into the draft with Philip Rivers, amongst other quarterbacks
(00:43):
who have done so. But Riley Leonard after his game
in Jacksonville with the Colts, now we know has a
Grade one PCL sprain. I have no idea what that means.
So that means roughly what and how severe is something
like that?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, well, good afternoon, Jake and Riley Leonards. So PCL
is the posterior cruciate ligament of the knee. There are
four substantial ligaments in the knee. The anterior cruciate ligament
a c L, we know, so the brother of that
is the PCL, and it does very little work compared
(01:25):
to what the ACLAN.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So that's the knee ligament. The Jake knee ligament is
the PCL ligament.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right, Yeah, So Jake, you're you're pretty much not needed
a lot of the time, okay, And until such time
that basically the knee might get hyper extended. And so
the big leg or the big bone on the bottom
of the leg, the tibia slides backwards a little bit
(01:55):
and in the knee joint and its sprains or stretches
that PCL. And that lines up with his what I read.
You know, he finished the game, he got on the plane,
he went home, walked into the complex Monday morning and said, hey,
my knee hurts. And so quite honestly, that's really good
(02:16):
news that he's got a Grade one sprain of the
post chair cruishit ligament that can be managed. There's a
lot of good ways to manage that in a short
period of.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Time, okay. And the so let me ask you this, Ralph,
when the average weekend warrior, and maybe there's no definitive
answer on this. I realize every situation is different. But
for the average person that just goes out and plays
some pickup ball with some buddies, or you know, does
some pickleball, whatever it might be, and they get they
(02:49):
simply get home and like, man, my knee was just
last night, I got to be honest with my knee
was kind of sore. Is that typically would the PCL
be the most likely of the injuries that the average
person and would.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
See, No, no, it's not, Jake. The PCL is it's
not high on the list of ligament injuries in the knee.
The MCL, the medio collateral ligament, is the most commonly
injured ligament of the knee. That's where your knee sort
of buckles in to the inside. So there's a lot
(03:23):
of things that support the back side of the knee.
The hamstring tendons come down and cross across the back
of the joint, and the calf muscles come up and
attach above the knee joints, so there's a lot of
bracing back there naturally, so the PCL has a lot
of protection. So I assume he got you know, It's
(03:44):
the NFL, right, So any hit is a big hit.
And so something occurred that jammed him either in the
lower leg or up in the quad the thigh area
that that forced that knee into its pretty sessive hyper extension.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
By the way, for the mcl I loved their bag Telapia,
Their big Telapia is fabulous. The cinnamon rolls at the
end of the day at mcl are also fantastic.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Ralph. For what say earth? They had some fish? What
was the almadine? The fish Almandine? I think was really good?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Fantastic, right, I mean no question. Ralph Reef is my
guest Java House, Peel and Port guest line. Okay, Ralph.
So the the Riley Leonard, I know that one thing
that I've learned in the discussions that we've had is
that when there are ligament injuries or stress to a ligament,
you always, as a trainer, like to see twenty one
days from day of impact. For lack of a better phrase,
(04:43):
would that be the case with Riley Leonard with a
Grade one PCL strain? Is it still under that? Look,
he's going to need three weeks before we bring it
back in and revisit it mode or is that a
shorter term injury.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, they graded this as a Grade one, which is
as mild as you can get on the grading scale.
So they did that via imaging, MRI et cetera. And
so so you shorten the clock. So because it's minor,
you're going to have need less time for that to
(05:17):
feel better. And really, from this standpoint, Jake, you're right,
and I appreciate you being a good student of the
biology of these things, but we're going to shorten that
timeframe for the PCL. Again, the hamstring, all that musculature
on the backside of the knee helps protect it and
(05:37):
it can sit there and sort of bathe in its
own inflammation and it'll heal pretty well with that. But again,
tight clock, and that PCL is going to heal up
quicker than the twenty one day clock that I usually
(05:58):
put on them.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay, let's get to the injury to Daniel Jones. And
again Ralph Rief is my guest, and I want to
be clear, you know, out of respect to Ralph, these
are not situations where you are the trainer on record
for them, So we're speaking in generalities here as opposed
to this. You know, a specific nature on say Daniel Jones.
(06:20):
But when we know that Daniel Jones had the torn
achilles and it was in a leg opposite of where
we had previously talked about the fibula fracture, is it
possible or even probable that that tear came from a
compensation of the way he was moving because of the
pain from the other side.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Your intelligence starts today, So yes, that is very much
a compensation issue. The first thought I had I happened
to be up in Green Bay and folks up there
came out and said, Hey, Daniel Jones, I think he
just tore his achilles. And I was like, which leg
(07:04):
is it? And and they said it was his right leg,
And I said, he's been limping. He's been putting all
his weight on that right leg ever since the injury
to the fibula, and so predictable. No, but ben once
should happen to say man, A high percentage of the
(07:25):
rationale of why has to go to the fact that
he was basically doing one leg at hops for this
entire injury period. You know, we mentioned last week talking
about how painful that intererossious membrane is between the fibula
and the tibia, and I watched him on television with
(07:46):
some of his warm up stuff and that they had on,
and I could just see, you know, hips lifted a
little higher on that left side. He was really putting
a lot of pressure on the right leg and didn't
anticipate it. But I'm not shocked that that compensation caused
that incident to occur.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
That's sort of an injury, Okay, And we're going to
speak again in generalities here, but a high level athlete
that is twenty eight years old and has the phibi
the issue on the left side, and now the achilles
on the right. The achilles is going to be the
longer term injury. If we are in December right now,
the a realistic time frame as to when Daniel Jones
(08:29):
will have complete range of movement and basically unimpeded movement
getting back onto the field would be what month.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, don't compare it to Tyrese because of the difference
in sports, right and so I would anticipate that between
now and camps in May. You know, that's six months
from now, he could very much be flat footed, no boot,
(08:56):
no restriction of flat footed movie sort of getting up
on his toes and throwing the football, and so I
would anticipate seeing that as well. That you know, come May,
I think people will be very excited and say, boy,
he looks great. He looks great, but there will be
(09:18):
an additional probably four months of time. So now we're
into ten months, which puts us into what October to
where sitting here in the cold of December and trying
to forecast this, I would say, ten months from now
you would have a very normal looking quarterback with both
(09:46):
legs available.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So would he be able to go the full rigor
of workout, say in August, in September you're saying, Ralph,
and then October is when he looks good or October
is when he can then finally begin to ramp that up.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, in generalities, and now Jake, in generalities, I would
see that as he would be a be able to jog,
be able to be in controlled settings, so you know,
he might mirror a coach or an athletic trainer that
sort of mirrors his tells him to move left, move right,
(10:20):
move backwards, forwards, backpedal, so forth, in controlled environment where
you can ask questions after each movement, how do you feel,
what's that look? Like, what's your heart rate at? And
so yeah, he'll have a lot of good controlled activity
throughout the summer months.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Ralph, Before I let you go, I wanted to ask
you this. You know, I had somebody that told me
once they were in the in the Air Force, and
their job in the Air Force is they were a
mechanic on the Air Force, you know, in the Air Force,
and they worked on some of the carriers out in
the you know, at sea. And he said, man, I'll
tell you what. He goes. There was there was always
(10:57):
such a cool thing when the pilots would take off
after we had done a routine maintenance on the plane.
They would kind of dip the wings as they took off,
kind of as a salute and a tip of the
cap to the guys that had worked on the planes.
And he goes. It was always such a gratifying feeling
and it was so cool and it made my work
worth it. Do you, as a trainer feel that when
you see an athlete? And I know that as a trainer,
(11:19):
you know, you get to know individuals, but at the
same time, you still have a job to do, right,
which is just to treat to determine what's going on
and then to advise on how to get a player
healthy again. Do you get that feeling of a gratifying
feeling when you see an athlete going out and running
back out on the field for the first time.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
You captured it very well, Jake, And I'm almost emotional
as you talk about that, because i can recall so
many times where you assist an athlete as an athletic
trainer and you've got them at their most vulnerable time
when they're you know, initially injured, and you work with
them through the time going back and they're the ones
who can fight in you. Uh, they cry on your shoulder,
(12:06):
they cuss at you, there's all of that process. But yeah,
when they when they get back to their craft at
full go, there's there's an unbelievable amount of of of
pride and and so forth. I'll give you a true
story from this weekend. I was in Green Bay with
(12:28):
the Packers Chris Carr doctor Chris Carr sports psychologists. He's
worked with multiple organizations around the world. He's been with
the Packers the last six years full time, and their
quarterback Jordan Love, made a comment in the media this
week that he says, you know, the game goes well
when I get in the flow, and that comes exactly
(12:52):
from doctor Chris Carr sitting with him and teaching him
about mental toolkits and and how to manage the game.
And so I was with Chris and he shared that
comment with me and replayed the tape and Chris's eyes
watered up. I mean, yeah, we get pretty tied up
in these athletes and what they do. If it's a
(13:15):
driver getting behind a car, if it's a pit crew member,
if it's somebody coming back from any kind of injury
or mental health situation. It's very very gratifying that that's
what fires the engine each day.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Ralph Ralph excuse me, reef dot com r e i
F F Ralph reef dot com Executive Performance Solutions, and
you can read all about his incredible journey as a
trainer in the different work that he has done and
continues to do, which includes the biggest task of all,
and that is occasionally saying that I'm intelligent on this
radio program, which is very much appreciated, even if only
(13:51):
for a fleeting moment, and even if it's only over
the agreement of the fabulous food at MCL. Ralph appreciate
the time as always and certainly look forward to talking
to you again.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay, have a great day, Jake.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I appreciate it. Ralphreef joining me on the program on
the Java House, Peel and Poor Guest slot
Joining me now on the Java House Peel and Poor
Guest line. You hear him on this show, I would
say nearly weekly because there are always new injuries to
talk about. He is the foremost expert when it comes
to athletic training. Ralph Reef dot com r e i
f f dot com. You should go to the website
just to look at the different places in which Ralph
(00:20):
has worked as an athletic trainer and the different places
in which he's had an impact on that profession, because
that alone is impressive. But he joins us now in
the program, and Ralph, I want to begin with this.
I appreciate the time before we get into the Daniel
Jones injury. Riley Leonard, who is a player that trained
going into the draft with Philip Rivers, amongst other quarterbacks
(00:43):
who have done so. But Riley Leonard after his game
in Jacksonville with the Colts, now we know has a
Grade one PCL sprain. I have no idea what that means.
So that means roughly what and how severe is something
like that?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, well, good afternoon, Jake and Riley Leonards. So PCL
is the posterior cruciate ligament of the knee. There are
four substantial ligaments in the knee. The anterior cruciate ligament
a c L, we know, so the brother of that
is the PCL, and it does very little work compared
(01:25):
to what the ACLAN.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
So that's the knee ligament. The Jake knee ligament is
the PCL ligament.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right, Yeah, So Jake, you're you're pretty much not needed
a lot of the time, okay, And until such time
that basically the knee might get hyper extended. And so
the big leg or the big bone on the bottom
of the leg, the tibia slides backwards a little bit
(01:55):
and in the knee joint and its sprains or stretches
that PCL. And that lines up with his what I read.
You know, he finished the game, he got on the plane,
he went home, walked into the complex Monday morning and said, hey,
my knee hurts. And so quite honestly, that's really good
(02:16):
news that he's got a Grade one sprain of the
post chair cruishit ligament that can be managed. There's a
lot of good ways to manage that in a short
period of.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Time, okay. And the so let me ask you this, Ralph,
when the average weekend warrior, and maybe there's no definitive
answer on this. I realize every situation is different. But
for the average person that just goes out and plays
some pickup ball with some buddies, or you know, does
some pickleball, whatever it might be, and they get they
(02:49):
simply get home and like, man, my knee was just
last night, I got to be honest with my knee
was kind of sore. Is that typically would the PCL
be the most likely of the injuries that the average
person and would.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
See, No, no, it's not, Jake. The PCL is it's
not high on the list of ligament injuries in the knee.
The MCL, the medio collateral ligament, is the most commonly
injured ligament of the knee. That's where your knee sort
of buckles in to the inside. So there's a lot
(03:23):
of things that support the back side of the knee.
The hamstring tendons come down and cross across the back
of the joint, and the calf muscles come up and
attach above the knee joints, so there's a lot of
bracing back there naturally, so the PCL has a lot
of protection. So I assume he got you know, It's
(03:44):
the NFL, right, So any hit is a big hit.
And so something occurred that jammed him either in the
lower leg or up in the quad the thigh area
that that forced that knee into its pretty sessive hyper extension.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
By the way, for the mcl I loved their bag Telapia,
Their big Telapia is fabulous. The cinnamon rolls at the
end of the day at mcl are also fantastic.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Ralph. For what say earth? They had some fish? What
was the almadine? The fish Almandine? I think was really good?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Fantastic, right, I mean no question. Ralph Reef is my
guest Java House, Peel and Port guest line. Okay, Ralph.
So the the Riley Leonard, I know that one thing
that I've learned in the discussions that we've had is
that when there are ligament injuries or stress to a ligament,
you always, as a trainer, like to see twenty one
days from day of impact. For lack of a better phrase,
(04:43):
would that be the case with Riley Leonard with a
Grade one PCL strain? Is it still under that? Look,
he's going to need three weeks before we bring it
back in and revisit it mode or is that a
shorter term injury.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, they graded this as a Grade one, which is
as mild as you can get on the grading scale.
So they did that via imaging, MRI et cetera. And
so so you shorten the clock. So because it's minor,
you're going to have need less time for that to
(05:17):
feel better. And really, from this standpoint, Jake, you're right,
and I appreciate you being a good student of the
biology of these things, but we're going to shorten that
timeframe for the PCL. Again, the hamstring, all that musculature
on the backside of the knee helps protect it and
(05:37):
it can sit there and sort of bathe in its
own inflammation and it'll heal pretty well with that. But again,
tight clock, and that PCL is going to heal up
quicker than the twenty one day clock that I usually
(05:58):
put on them.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay, let's get to the injury to Daniel Jones. And
again Ralph Rief is my guest, and I want to
be clear, you know, out of respect to Ralph, these
are not situations where you are the trainer on record
for them, So we're speaking in generalities here as opposed
to this. You know, a specific nature on say Daniel Jones.
(06:20):
But when we know that Daniel Jones had the torn
achilles and it was in a leg opposite of where
we had previously talked about the fibula fracture, is it
possible or even probable that that tear came from a
compensation of the way he was moving because of the
pain from the other side.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Your intelligence starts today, So yes, that is very much
a compensation issue. The first thought I had I happened
to be up in Green Bay and folks up there
came out and said, Hey, Daniel Jones, I think he
just tore his achilles. And I was like, which leg
(07:04):
is it? And and they said it was his right leg,
And I said, he's been limping. He's been putting all
his weight on that right leg ever since the injury
to the fibula, and so predictable. No, but ben once
should happen to say man, A high percentage of the
(07:25):
rationale of why has to go to the fact that
he was basically doing one leg at hops for this
entire injury period. You know, we mentioned last week talking
about how painful that intererossious membrane is between the fibula
and the tibia, and I watched him on television with
(07:46):
some of his warm up stuff and that they had on,
and I could just see, you know, hips lifted a
little higher on that left side. He was really putting
a lot of pressure on the right leg and didn't
anticipate it. But I'm not shocked that that compensation caused
that incident to occur.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
That's sort of an injury, Okay, And we're going to
speak again in generalities here, but a high level athlete
that is twenty eight years old and has the phibi
the issue on the left side, and now the achilles
on the right. The achilles is going to be the
longer term injury. If we are in December right now,
the a realistic time frame as to when Daniel Jones
(08:29):
will have complete range of movement and basically unimpeded movement
getting back onto the field would be what month.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, don't compare it to Tyrese because of the difference
in sports, right and so I would anticipate that between
now and camps in May. You know, that's six months
from now, he could very much be flat footed, no boot,
(08:56):
no restriction of flat footed movie sort of getting up
on his toes and throwing the football, and so I
would anticipate seeing that as well. That you know, come May,
I think people will be very excited and say, boy,
he looks great. He looks great, but there will be
(09:18):
an additional probably four months of time. So now we're
into ten months, which puts us into what October to
where sitting here in the cold of December and trying
to forecast this, I would say, ten months from now
you would have a very normal looking quarterback with both
(09:46):
legs available.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
So would he be able to go the full rigor
of workout, say in August, in September you're saying, Ralph,
and then October is when he looks good or October
is when he can then finally begin to ramp that up.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, in generalities, and now Jake, in generalities, I would
see that as he would be a be able to jog,
be able to be in controlled settings, so you know,
he might mirror a coach or an athletic trainer that
sort of mirrors his tells him to move left, move right,
(10:20):
move backwards, forwards, backpedal, so forth, in controlled environment where
you can ask questions after each movement, how do you feel,
what's that look? Like, what's your heart rate at? And
so yeah, he'll have a lot of good controlled activity
throughout the summer months.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Ralph, Before I let you go, I wanted to ask
you this. You know, I had somebody that told me
once they were in the in the Air Force, and
their job in the Air Force is they were a
mechanic on the Air Force, you know, in the Air Force,
and they worked on some of the carriers out in
the you know, at sea. And he said, man, I'll
tell you what. He goes. There was there was always
(10:57):
such a cool thing when the pilots would take off
after we had done a routine maintenance on the plane.
They would kind of dip the wings as they took off,
kind of as a salute and a tip of the
cap to the guys that had worked on the planes.
And he goes. It was always such a gratifying feeling
and it was so cool and it made my work
worth it. Do you, as a trainer feel that when
you see an athlete? And I know that as a trainer,
(11:19):
you know, you get to know individuals, but at the
same time, you still have a job to do, right,
which is just to treat to determine what's going on
and then to advise on how to get a player
healthy again. Do you get that feeling of a gratifying
feeling when you see an athlete going out and running
back out on the field for the first time.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
You captured it very well, Jake, And I'm almost emotional
as you talk about that, because i can recall so
many times where you assist an athlete as an athletic
trainer and you've got them at their most vulnerable time
when they're you know, initially injured, and you work with
them through the time going back and they're the ones
who can fight in you. Uh, they cry on your shoulder,
(12:06):
they cuss at you, there's all of that process. But yeah,
when they when they get back to their craft at
full go, there's there's an unbelievable amount of of of
pride and and so forth. I'll give you a true
story from this weekend. I was in Green Bay with
(12:28):
the Packers Chris Carr doctor Chris Carr sports psychologists. He's
worked with multiple organizations around the world. He's been with
the Packers the last six years full time, and their
quarterback Jordan Love, made a comment in the media this
week that he says, you know, the game goes well
when I get in the flow, and that comes exactly
(12:52):
from doctor Chris Carr sitting with him and teaching him
about mental toolkits and and how to manage the game.
And so I was with Chris and he shared that
comment with me and replayed the tape and Chris's eyes
watered up. I mean, yeah, we get pretty tied up
in these athletes and what they do. If it's a
(13:15):
driver getting behind a car, if it's a pit crew member,
if it's somebody coming back from any kind of injury
or mental health situation. It's very very gratifying that that's
what fires the engine each day.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Ralph Ralph excuse me, reef dot com r e i
F F Ralph reef dot com Executive Performance Solutions, and
you can read all about his incredible journey as a
trainer in the different work that he has done and
continues to do, which includes the biggest task of all,
and that is occasionally saying that I'm intelligent on this
radio program, which is very much appreciated, even if only
(13:51):
for a fleeting moment, and even if it's only over
the agreement of the fabulous food at MCL. Ralph appreciate
the time as always and certainly look forward to talking
to you again.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Okay, have a great day, Jake.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I appreciate it. Ralphreef joining me on the program on
the Java House, Peel and Poor Guest slot
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