July 21, 2025 • 55 mins
Today’s Best of Features:
(00:00-23:12) – The Dean, Mike Chappell, from CBS4 and FOX59 joins the program and starts his conversation with Jake discussing his admiration for Bob Hammel with his passing being announced yesterday. Chappell reacts to what Jake is most curious about heading into training camp, compares how Carlie Irsay-Gordon operated to her father when he was starting to work his way up the organization, and notes the offensive line vs defensive line drills are some of the more underrated drills to watch in training camp.
(23:12-39:34) – Pat Knight joins Query & Company to share his memories about Bob Hammel and comment on his dad’s friendship with him. Pat shares a story as to how Bob Hammel and Bob Knight became friends, tells a story about the Coach Knight golf outtakes with Bob Hammel present, and explains how baseball bonded the three of them together when Pat was a kid.
(39:34-55:34) – Colts.com’s JJ Stankevitz joins Jake Query to kick off the final hour of the show to discuss his conversation with Colts owner Carlie Irsay-Gordon that was released earlier today. He shares what his biggest takeaway was from their two-hour conversation, couples what she said about Anthony Richardson to how the franchise has operated this offseason with him going into year three, and believes the storyline he will be monitoring during training camp will be how the defense comes together because he sees a lot of similarities between the defense that the Bengals had going to the Super Bowl to the Colts defense.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mike Chapple joining us on the program of course, from
WXI in Fox fifty nine and CBS four on this
the eve of report day for the Colts and then
everything getting underway ten o'clock in the morning practice number one.
We will get into all of that in just a minute,
but Mike, before we do that, I wanted to I
guess sidebar in this area. I talked about him earlier,
(00:23):
but as somebody who is yourself, you know, a giant
within the print broadcast world of sports media and Indiana,
the passing of Bob Hamill at the age of eighty
eight over the weekend, his family making that announcement, I
just wanted to give you the opportunity to share kind
of your recollection or just your thoughts on the passing
(00:46):
of Bob Hamil.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Normally with the media, we sort of stand in our
own little circles.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm in Indy and he was in Bloomington, and I
was her friend, no acquaintance, yes, but the admiration is undeniable.
And the thing that people have to understand about about
a bat Bob Hamil type person is he's covering the
(01:14):
beat in his city. I you basketball, and not only
that he's got to deal with Bob Knight. And if
you think that's easy, you're crazy. I did it from
the from the periphery with when I was ten years
at Anderson and we had the what we always call
it the Madison Heights Phil Buck pipeline. To I you,
(01:35):
Bobby Wilkerson and Ray Talbert who I ran into you
today was great, But Winston Morgan, Stu Robinson. Uh So
I dealt with Bob just kind of patty, how you doing,
about how you doing? But nothing nothing, you know, even
the remotely close. But people have to understand how hard
(01:57):
it is to maintain your reputation of objectivity when you're
covering the beat in your community and you have to
be fair objective and you have to deal with stuff.
You're right, maybe p O and the King. You know,
(02:22):
Bob Knight, So I thought you did a tremendous job.
And I never would have wanted to be in his shoes.
Had to do what he did because there had to
be times that he had to sort of just kind
of bows in and say whatever. But again, the footprints, well,
you know it's it's I always say, we all want
(02:44):
to leave some kind of footprints, just so the people
remember that you were there. Well, Bob hammil left footprints,
let me tell you. Uh, he helped so many people,
the Rick Bosices and people like that that I've dealt
with as well. And I, you know, David Hall. I
just think it's incredible and we knew he was not
(03:05):
in the greatest of health, but kind of just makes
me think how old I'm getting when people that I
grew up with and around aren't no longer with us.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Do you When you look at it, Chap, and you
look at Bob Hamill's career, and he came to Bloomington
in nineteen sixty six, which means that he got there
six years before Bob Knight. But been you know Bob
Knight certainly you know he went to the final four
and seventy three, so he was often running in terms
of his influence speaking of Bob Knight's and having to
(03:38):
balance and delicately balance exactly what you're talking about in
terms of objectivity, but at the same time access, I
mean truth be told. Sure did Bob Hamill at any
point to your recollection almost also serve not just as
the immediate window to Bob Knightights world, but also kind
(04:01):
of an intermediary between Bob Knight and the rest of
the media. In other words, was there did he almost
buy just proximity become the guy that had to kind
of serve as the middleman in the riffs that Knight
would have with the rest of the media world.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Probably, And that's what I say. The balancing act is
I can only imagine so tremendous, because you can't just
come out and rip the guy, I mean just totally
ripping him, because you need access the next day, the
next week, the next month. So it's very difficult to
keep your credibility while while calling you a spade a
(04:43):
spade when it comes to the many things that Knight
did good and bad, and there were plenty of both,
So I think it's really hard. I can't imagine. I
dealt with Jimersay for forty some years, and he respected
the fact that if he did something stupid, I'd calling
(05:03):
about it. You know, we didn't always agree. I just
think that when you when and and and that theirs
was about that level because again in Bloomington it was
IU basketball and oh, by the way, they played football. Yeah,
he sort of got you to the basketball season. So
I wouldn't have wanted that job. Seriously, during my time
(05:25):
at the Star, we went through three or four guys
that that dealt with IU as a beat and everybody
had horror stories of being yelled at or sent out
of the locker room or whatever. And again I was
when I'm covering him and Anderson with our guys that
were there, You're you're You're not one of the guys
(05:47):
like the Bloomington guys and even the indie guys. But
I saw how hard it was, how hard it could
be to deal with Bob Knight, how he just simply
talked down to people and dismissed people. And I think
he was hard on Bob Hammel at times, because that's
who Bob Knight was. Uh So, I again a legend,
(06:09):
and what he did was was helped so many people,
and he dealt was a very very difficult situation probably
about as well as you could. And did things maybe
go totally unreported, I don't know, but I thought he
handled it about as well as you could. Understanding that
(06:30):
while yes, I got this job as as the beat
guy and the guy always there, he had to he
had to keep in mind you always had to be
able to be there, so a difficult, difficult balancing act,
and I thought he did it about as well as
anybody could have. And we'll would do.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
By the way, Chap before we get to the Colts.
And I know that you and I have crossed this
bridge before, but sometimes it's worth doing again because it's fun.
And that is when you really think about, Like right now,
if you just stop and close your eyes and you
think about one of those games, you know of Stu
Robinson going up against you know, a young Troy Lewis,
(07:10):
or Madison Heights going to battle at the Wigwam against
Anderson or Highland coming in and taking on Madison Heights
or whatever it might be. The pack nature of the gym,
the frenzy, the level of play that was there, the
rivalry amongst all of it, and the town essentially shutting
down on a Friday or Saturday night for high school basketball.
(07:35):
In the moment that those things were taking place in
the late seventies early eighties, I don't know that any
of us realized that what we were seeing is something
that at some point two old guys on the radio
would be talking about him as the Glory years. But
it truly was a magical time that I don't know
that it ever comes back.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, and again I mentioned very tall. But my grandkids
participate in a basketball cam Mount Vernon Middle School last week.
Luke Levyan Anne and Ray Tolbert was one of the counselors,
one of the main guys, and I made it a
point to go over there and spent ten fifteen minutes
and we just talked. His eyes lit up. We go
(08:14):
back at he's a friend. He's the guy that through
the year. Jesus. Yeah. If I if I see somebody
walking in the ball like him, which stop and talk,
probably have lunch. But he he was the most dominant
high school player I ever covered. Not the best. Troy
Lewis was damn near the best. He was good.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
He was really good.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah. I still there were moments and I can still
remember a game his senior year and they're playing l
Woods and now what's got Evie Cotton name sticks in
my head and they said, we're not going to be
you know, in all Ray Talbert, We're gonna take it
to the lane. He blocked eighteen shots, eighteen shots and you
know so, but that was him, mister basketball that year.
(08:57):
One of the more talented Indian All Star teams with
Talburt and Drake Morris and Steve Risley and Rick Lance
and on and on, and it was totally blown up
because Drake Morris thought he should have been and probably
should have been mister Basketball. And it just went went
to hell when you left chemistry. But I still see
(09:18):
there were years in Madison County that I would have
taken our Madison County All Star team and given Indian
All Stars a hell of a game. I believe that
to this day with all the talent, and yeah, I
know I harp on that. But one of the things
I've got is on my key ring, I've got a
(09:39):
nineteen eighty one. It's a memorable thing when all those
little teat chain things in nineteen eighty one IU championship
and it was Ray. It was Ray and Isaiah Thomas
and Lanta Turner. I was there for the Bobby Wilkerson,
both of them into specthim in Philly. So those were
the glory days in Anderson and for a while for IU,
(10:00):
I mean really the unbeaten team and all that stuff.
So I never grow tired. You know, football is what
I do, and that's what I've come to be. But
for my ten years at Anderson, Glory Days of nine
thousand the Wigwam and four or five thousand at Highland
and Madsen Heights, and what great times, just great times.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
By the way, seventy six and eighty seven the bookends
of Bob Knight's titles. I always found it fascinating that
in both National Championship games, player number twenty suffered an
injury early in the game that knocked him out of
the game and left him scored us for the rest
of the game. Bobby Wilkerson in seventy six, Ricky Callaway
in eighty seven. My brain is really weird and I
have no idea how that even pops into it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And again I talked to our bosses, just sending me
to each to each National Championship in seventy six and
eighty one, and I get there and to Philly the Spectrum,
and thing's a buzz against Michigan and Bobby gets blown up,
gets knocked out, literally knocked out, I don't know, five
minutes in the game. Yep, WAYMN Brits elbow. So so
(11:02):
you know, it was really pretty amazing. And I think
in the semi finals Wilkerson had like twenty rebounds against UCLA.
So again I just think it's I know, people thinking, yeah,
move on, no, that's all gone. Those were great times
with the Kent Bensons. And I'm still p o that
Bobby Wilkerson didn't make the Olympic team. I really am
(11:23):
heat because he deserved it. But I'll never forget those times.
And and my son told me, said, I didn't know
you you missed high school basketball that much. I said, well,
back then it was. It was special for ten years.
And just some of that memories is now Mark Barnheiser.
You know, we said all this stuff with Brooks Barnheiser.
(11:45):
I covered Mark Barnheiser when he would drop thirty every
night for lapel. So it was this a great time.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Chap. Let's get to my chapel. Our guest by the way,
CBS four and w x I in Fox fifth tonight. Okay, Chap. Obviously,
Anderson did serve at one time as the home for
Colts Camp. It is now at Grand Park and Westfield.
Things get underway in terms of reporting tomorrow practice on Wednesday.
One of the things that I'm most curious about. We're
gonna talk plenty of plenty about the quarterback and other
(12:14):
such situations over the course of camp. But I really
am curious to see how, if in any way things
feel look or seem different now without Jim Irsay and I,
you know, listen, in terms of fan engagement, kind hearted connection, enthusiasm,
(12:37):
all of those things for Jim Rsay will be missed
without question as a man, But just in terms of
the operative standpoint of things and the way that things go.
Do you think this year we will see differences?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
No?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Well, I don't think we're going to have that sit
down with Harvey like we did with Jim every you
know whatever. It was a fifth or sixth day of
training camp when he comes out and a golf cart.
We talked for We talked for twenty minutes and he
answers three questions because that's what that's that's twenty minutes
with Jim. I don't think we're going to have that.
(13:13):
I just don't think barring this team, this thing going
downhill real quick. I'm talking one in six. I just
don't see any way there's any changes people will notice.
I just don't uh. Things are in place, and Carly
and the daughters, the sisters. We'll allow it to play out, barring,
(13:37):
like I said, a catastrophes to start the season. Now,
after the season, we'll see. But the changes that could
have been made or whatever, that time has passed, so
I don't I really don't think we're gonna see much.
I just don't know that Carly is going to be
(13:58):
every two months or what of her three months getting
together with the media. I just don't know that that's
going to be part of her operations. I really don't.
So beyond that, I just don't. And again, she's not
gonna beet there throwing many footballs with one hundred dollars
bills wrapped around them. That's where this time of the
(14:18):
year was so cool with with with Jim, because he
he understood more than anybody the importance of fan interaction
interaction during this time. He knew that during the season,
it's hard for people to spend four or five six
hundred dollars to go to a game, but maybe it
(14:40):
cost you five or ten bucks to go to Westfield
and the players are accessible. He understood that, and not
that Carbly doesn't. I think this is this, this will
be the operations moving forward. But he enjoyed going out
there and signing autographs and waving the fans and throwing
on a hundred bills, and we'll miss that. But I
(15:04):
just don't think. Maybe I'm way wrong and I'm missing something,
but I just don't know that there's an occasion to
where Carl can put her fingerprints on their franchise in
a public way. I just don't see it unless it
comes time for a move because things aren't working out,
and I don't foresee that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You know what's interesting, Chap and I made this reference
earlier we kind of fans, media whatever. And I'm not
going to say people made fun of it, but you
certainly saw people that kind of would raise the question
of why is Jim Mersey's daughter walking around with a
headset on? Why is she carrying a clipboard on the headset?
What's going on there? And people kind of rolled their
(15:47):
eyes at it. But now that she is the one
in charge, aren't you glad that that was taking place?
Because this is not I think that there is a
stereotype amongst billionaire family where the matriarch or the patriarch
of the family passes and then suddenly the kids take
(16:07):
over and in the movies or in the Netflix shows
when that happens, they air drop some trust fund kid
off of the ski slopes and Aspen and now suddenly
take over the company and the family business. And there
has to be some relief of knowing that there is
a level of competence and understanding of the behind the
(16:30):
scenes stuff because she's been preparing herself for this moment.
And I think now we can look back on those
things that people might have rolled their eyes at and say,
I'm glad it went that way. You agree with that sentiment.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, So all they all have all free had in
their own in their own lanes that they're at. But
with her, she's really done exactly what her dad did.
You remember how he started off. He did everything as
a go for early on, and he learned, and that's
how you do you learn. I don't think she's picked
up jocks like Jim did. I hope she's not. But
(17:05):
that's the way you you know, Reggie was Reggie Wade
told us how if she's in meetings, she's taking notes.
He said, you better be ready to answer questions if
she's got them. So and it wasn't being meddling, it
was learning and demanding that you learn. So everything that
she done, I don't know that the local media rolled
our eyes, but we noticed her. You know, you know
(17:26):
what's her on game that she's out there during practice
when we're out there, she's out there and she's paying attention,
and like like on game day, she doesn't. I think
her head sets one way, and I don't think she's
sending messages to the coaches. But I do believe like
on a Sunday or a Monday, whenever they talk, she
(17:48):
would she would say maybe why did you do this?
What were you thinking? And that's what that's what they
should and not to be critical, but to say, you know, understand.
So she's no other dad did as far as learning
as much as possible. Now, there will be moves in
the future where we scratch our head and say why
did you do that? It won't be because she doesn't
(18:09):
know what the hell she's doing. It won't be because
she she's prepared herself as much as possible for every
aspect of the job she has. Whether that's going to
be reinforcing the GM, the head coach player acquisition, I
don't know that she'll be. She'll have as much input
(18:29):
as Jim did because because that's her job now, cause
certainly I don't think to tell Chris Ballard, hey, let's
go get this guy. But when he comes to say,
we're really interested in this guy that guy, then she'll
know first, she'll know who the hell it is, and
then she can offer some intelligent input on why they should,
(18:50):
why they shouldn't, what's the price is going to be.
So everything you said I agree with, and she and
her daughter are sisters, are as prepared as possible for
this transition because it's being going on for a while,
for a decade at least in at a higher level
(19:11):
over the past couple of years when Jim's not been
in the greatest of help.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Chap let me ask you this as we head into camp,
and in conclusion here Mike Chapel, our guest on the
wildly popular and always busy and available again to be
sponsored guest line, chap when you watch training camp, and
you've seen a lot of them, I want you to
kind of speak to colts fans that might be going
out and watching practice, And it is great that people
(19:36):
have the access to go out and watch practice, but
when you look at position battles or players that either
camp is allowing them the opportunity to rise up and
cement a position on the team, or camp is all
of a sudden they fell short and it cost them
(19:58):
a position on the team. What are you looking for?
What tells you, as the trained eye that has been
through forty plus of these What little things, body, language wise,
whatever it might be. Can you see on a field
that tells you that a guy is having a good
or a bad camp, aside from simply the guy next
(20:19):
to him just ran faster than he did well.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And as much as we think we know, keep in
mind that ad Mitchell had a great training camp, a
great training camp, and then not so much in the
regular season. But where I really like to pay attention
is and yes, we're going to be charting completions and
incompletions by the quarterbacks because because but if the fans
get a chance, go down in the middle of the
(20:46):
two fiegals when they have the offensive line and defensive
lines going against each other, and this will be the
first chance because in the off season they don't you're
not hitting, you're not you know, really really going to
one hundred, you know, full speed. But go down and
watch the pass rushers go down and watch the U
blitzing linebacker take on a running back. That's where you
(21:08):
really see. That's when we're gonna see the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
What have you got?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Defensive line? You know, Samson ebucom Wordsey Allens is returning
Leo la to is he gonna make that big jump?
That's where you really see the spirited things. Offensive line,
defensive line, Yes, receivers and dbs. Yes, running backs. That's
really hard. You're gonna see Jonathan Taylor, you know, run
(21:34):
through a tackle and go fifty yards and the fans
go crazy and the linebacker says, I had him right here.
We just can't tackle these guys. The area that's most
enjoyable are our pass rushers interior and on the edge
going against the offensive line. Those are the two bedrocks
of a team. And it's really going to be cool
(21:56):
to see how well the edge guys are coming along
and up, how well the offensive line with losing Kelly
and Will Fryes adapts. This is the first chance to
see the lineman really go at it. That's where you
really see the sparks fly.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Really.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
The players will report tomorrow. Practice gets underway Wednesday at
ten Mike Chapel has been ready for it since like
nineteen eighty four. So everything getting underway out of you.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Just keep stacking him.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Listen, I got you a gift. I got your gift,
and I'll give it to you on Wednesday. Chap how's that?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I hear that. Until I see it, I just I'll
take your word.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
All right, Well, we'll present it to you on Wednesday.
If I see out there, chap all right.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
One thing, one thing just for factual. Rookies will start
reporting today. Rookies today, everybody tomorrow on first practice on Wednesday.
So first access for fans is is.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Wednesday, Wednesday, ten o'clock practice gets underway, first ball, A snap. Appreciate.
I had a Chapel talk here Mike Chapel, CBS four
wxin Fox fifty nine where you can see and hear
all of his coverage when it comes to the Colts
camp taking place halfway through the program here on a Monday,
(23:16):
Jay Query Eddie Garrison here as well, joining us now
on the program. He is the head basketball coach of
the Marrion Knights, and as we have been talking about
and a few occasions today, reflecting upon the life and
career of Bob Hamil. I figured that Pat Knight would
be able to share his thoughts on it because and Pat,
(23:36):
you tell me if I'm wrong in this. I don't
know what your relationship was with Bob Hamill growing up,
but I know what Bob Hamill meant to your father
and that working relationship that became a friendship between the
two of them. And my initial thought was I wonder
if Pat almost saw Bob as like an uncle type figure.
But thanks for joining us, and just wanted to give
(23:57):
you the chance to kind of upon what relationship you
might have had with Bob Hamil.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Well, you know the one thing you always got to remember,
your dad's friends are not necessarily your friends, especially when
you got a famous dad. I mean you find out quick.
You know you don't hear from guys man. You know
that bothered you always calling it because they couldn't get
a hold of your dad. But you know, mister Hamil,
(24:25):
though it was like one of my dad's true friends.
You know, my dad always had a saying and I'll
clean it up forget them all but six, And it
has to do with really your six best friends are
going to be your Paul Barrow and mister Hamil would
have been one of those you know, he's one of
(24:45):
those type guys with my dad and you know my
relationship now. He's always great to me. You know, his
son Babysip, sat my brother and I his son Rick,
who's a doctor, babysatus when we're kids. He worked my
dad's camps. He had actually took me to Star Wars.
I had to sit on Rick's lap to see Star
Wars when it was at the Vonley Theater in Bloomington
(25:06):
in like nineteen seventy seven. And so you know, I've
known the Hamills, you know, my whole life. And but
but then you know, I didn't see him for a
long time. Then when we brought Coach back to live
in Bloomington, you know, four or five years before he passed,
it was great to see mister Hamill again because he's
always coming in and every week having dinner with my
(25:29):
dad and checking up on him. And but from my standpoint,
just I don't know if my dad had a better friend,
you know, just because you know, mister Hamill could kind
of tell my dad's stuff that other people would be
scared to tell them. But just their love for sports,
I mean, you talk about two guys and they could
sit down and talk about baseball, football, basketball. I mean
(25:53):
it didn't matter. Most of the time. They didn't even
talk about Indiana basketball. I mean, it's usually you know,
my dad was a huge Yankees fan. Mister Hamil's a
Chicago White Sox fan. I mean, even towards the end,
even with my dad's Alzheimer's, he'd remember that. He'd always
wear his Yankees cap when mister Hamill would come visit.
And so it was just a great friend of my
(26:13):
dad's and helped my dad a lot, you know, just
through his whole life, just being one of those guys
my dad could talk to. He would never take anything personal,
just kind of knew how to handle my dad's temperament.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
What do you think it was pat that allowed you know,
I mean your father in particular, So Bob Hamill arrived
in Bloomington in nineteen sixty six. He grew up in Huntington,
wrote for the Huntington newspaper and then came to the
Bloomington Harald telephone now the Herald Times. What do you
think it was that allowed your dad, I guess to
trust him and let him in because you know, while
(26:48):
I did not know your father, well, obviously, I think
everybody knows that he didn't let a lot of people
in that inner circle. What do you think was the
source of the mutual respect between the two.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, you know, talking to mister Hamill, especially these last
few years, you know, when he'd come and check on
my dad and we talked about it. So, you know,
mister Hamill's brother was a really good high school coach,
and when my dad got the job, his brother actually
like called him up and said, Hey, this guy's gonna
be great for Indiana. You know, I look what he's
(27:22):
done at West Point. We're finally going to play defense. Well,
mister Hamill wrote a skating article how my dad was
going to be awfuled Indiana. No one was going to
like the defense. I love scoring games. And so they
actually ended up at the same gas station pumping gas
for their cars, and of course mister Hamil's like, can
(27:44):
I look over there and there's your dad And I'm like,
oh boy. And so of course my dad gave him,
you know, a little heck. And but mister Hamill kind
of apologized and said, hey, this is that was just
my my feelings, blah, blah blah, and you know, miss
Hamil said he was just upfront with you know, and
and my dad was just like, hey, you know what,
(28:05):
when we do a real interview, I'll come pick you
up and bring you know, bring you by the office
and listen, sit down. So mister Hamil thinks it was
just being honest. Even though he wrote a skating arracle,
he just told him the reasons why he wrote it,
what his feelings were. But you know, he'd like to
know why my dad thinks his style would work. And
(28:26):
so I think, you know, talking mister Hamil, it's just
his honesty. And you know he one lot favoritism. I
mean there's other stories like in seventy seven he wrote
an oracle. You know, guys were transferring, they didn't finish,
you know, had a down year after going on the
feed in seventy six, and my dad called him like, hey,
I thought we were friends, and you know, mister Hamil's like,
(28:47):
we are, but I have a job to do. So
I think my dad always appreciated that, you know, if
you were honest with him and upfront and didn't sugarcoat thanks.
And I think that's what got their relationship off to
a great start.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Pat had once heard Pat Knight, our guest, the head
basketball coach at Marion, I had once heard that when
Woody Hayes was fired from Ohio State for punching Charlie
Bouman after the Gator Bowl, you know, with Clemson, that
it was your dad, Bob Knight that called Woody Hayes
and said, look, you've got to back down from this,
(29:20):
like you can't. You've got to apologize to the kid.
You've got to make amends here. And that that And
I don't know if that story is embellished or if
that was accurate that it was Bob Knight that called
Woody Hayes, But either way, I'm curious. Do you think
there were ever occasions where your dad may have crossed
the line or aired and Bob Hamil was the one
that spoke to him. Well, but well, I'm saying we
(29:43):
know that there were times he crossed the liner air,
But were there times where Bob Hamil was the one
that maybe was the one that had the ability to say, Bob,
you've got to You've got to walk this back.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Oh yeah, no, definitely. That's why I was talking about, like,
you know, the six Paul bears. He was one of
those guys and he could take it. You know, he'd
gotten kicked out of the office of the locker room,
but you know knew he was going to get a
phone call later, you know, if coach was wrong and apologized.
But he was one of those few guys that could
kind of you know, you may want to think about this,
(30:15):
you know, and that story is true about Coach Hayes,
by the way, but uh, yeah, mister Hamill is always
one of those guys that you know, when the crap
would hit the fan, you know it was coach. It
wouldn't even have to be on the basketball court, you know,
just you know, if he was upset with somebody or
did something. Yeah, mister Hamill is always one of those
(30:36):
guys that you know could kind of tell him in
a good way, knew how to approach it. But then
he didn't. But he knew that, you know, the messenger
could get killed at times, and but it never bothered him,
never held a grudge or anything because he knew deep
down that you know, my dad loved him, and you know,
eventually it may take a couple of good days. If
my dad was wrong, he would either stop by or
(30:58):
call him up. And but that was a great thing
about that relationship to have a guy like that and
not one of your assistants, not you know, an athletic director.
You know, mister Hamill was a writer and just a
guy kind of on the outside looking in. And so
I think my dad could even trust him even more
from that standpoint, because you know, he didn't work for
(31:19):
the university one on his staff, and so mister Hamill
won a yes man. And so yeah, I think that
that's a good question, and you hit it right. Other
than those, yeah, mister Hamil is one of those few
people you know that could really, you know, have those
conversations with my dad.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I'm curious, by the way, and I did not know, Pat.
Maybe I should have done this. I did not know
that your father, Bob Knight, was a big Yankees fan.
I would have assumed a Cardinals fan because of his
relationship with Larusa, or even a Red Sox fan because
of his admiration for Ted Williams. But when you were
growing up, one thing I don't recall you mentioning much
(31:56):
was baseball itself. Did you have a baseball team growing up?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah? So my dad, so the Reds were our team
growing up. I was bat boy for the Reds. We'd
go down to Tampa Bay, stay at the Reds Hotel.
We were really close to Sparky Anderson, the big Red Machine.
You know, I was only like five six years old,
but I used Pete Pete Rose gave me his glove.
My brother and I his glove down at spring training.
(32:23):
And I actually used Pete Rose glove for my whole
baseball career. Everyone thought I was full of it because
they had fourteen on the thumb and rose across the knuckles.
Everyone thought I took a sharpie and did that. But
it's actually Pete Rose's real glove. And so the Reds
were our team. And then of course my dad and
the Cardinals. We went over there all the time, and
(32:44):
LaRussa was there. But for him though as a kid,
it was always the Yankees through his whole life. And
then you know, he got to have a great relationship
with George Steinbrenner, and so his mom was a big
Cleveland Indians fan being there in Ohio. But my dad,
for some reason, just you know, it was probably because
they were so good, grew up just loving all the
(33:04):
Yankees and but when it came to us growing up.
That was the time he got to know Sparky Anderson.
So we were around the Breads a lot when when
when I was growing up, So that was my team.
But my dad always had that love for the Yankees though,
And so it's funny, you know, he and Hamill, even
my dad towards the end with the Alzheimer's, we could
get him going when it came to the Yankees and
(33:25):
the White Sox, and coach would put that hat on
when he knew mister Hamill was coming over. And uh.
But as one of the ways, you know, if he
was one having one of those bad days, we wasn't
talking a lot. We could always get him going with
something when it came to baseball.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And then what about from an NFL standpoint, I mean,
you and I grew up in an era where there
was no NFL team for the better part of our childhood.
Did you have an NFL team growing up?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
The Bengals. Yep, Cincinnati was because it's it's close by.
I actually got to tell my wife because we got
tickets to go to the Bengals Lions uh in October.
And I grew up, I actually got my dad got
me a Bengals helmet as a little kid for Christmas.
So it was the Bengals and the Reds when I
was growing up.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I would have thought he would have been your dad,
a Browns fan, just growing up in the proximity to Cleveland,
how big the Browns were, especially in that era.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
He was well for some reason when we got to Bloomington,
everything was the Reds and the Bengals. But you know,
he has great stories of you know, meeting Coach Brown
and you know Hablecheck. No one knows this. Haplecheck was
going to play for the Browns because right orback was
so cheap with his contracts. My dad actually went down
(34:38):
to training camp when Habilcheck was trying out for the
Browns and actually convinced him to sign the contract with
the Celtics. And so, but it's kind of funny. I
don't know what happened with my dad kind of leaving Ohio,
kind of left the Cleveland teams behind, and growing up
is always the Cincinnati days.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
You know, Pat, you should do you should have a
radio show. You should just do three hours of storytime
with that night, I'll take come in here and just
do it for three hours.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Wait, maybe if I have a job where you know,
I got where I don't have to be careful.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, here's the other thing, and I'm impressed by this,
and this is a sign of your maturation, which is impressive.
I don't know what, fifteen eighteen minutes here and this
time no swearing, which is impressive, right, I promise you.
I mean practice makes perfect, right.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
But I got a great handle story that honest got
So you've seen coaches out takes, the golf out takes,
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
So we were talking and this is just you know,
here was a few months before like coach passed, and
we were talking about the golf out takes, and I
was telling my stories about you know clubs and the
I mean clubs in the lakes, up in the trees.
And so that day when Coach picked him up to
(36:00):
do their first like real interview, they stopped off at
the IU course and they got out of the car
and mister Hamil was like, you know, what were we doing?
And my dad was like, hey, just walk with me.
So they went to this one hole and my dad
went in the woods, started climbing up the tree. You know,
(36:20):
Mister Hamil's like what are you doing. He's like, well,
I threw my putter up here the other day he
got stuck in the tree. My dad climbed up the
tree and mister Hamill said, right when he got up
to the limb, the girls golf team started coming through,
and so my dad was so embarrassed. He didn't want
the girls golf team to see the brand new basketball
(36:41):
coach up in the tree looking for his putter. Mister
Hamil said, he clung to that tree. Why, Like four
foursomes of girls went through, and mister Hamil said, mister
Hamil said, he just acted like he was going for
like a morning walk, you know. And he said, no,
I mean, I'd never even heard that story before. And
he said, my dad clung to life, didn't say a word,
(37:02):
and like four foursomes of the girls went through, and
never knew that the new basketball coaches up in the
tree getting this putter.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
If you had to guess, was that the only time
he ever had to go up in a tree and
get his putter?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Oh no, But when he got older, he'd send my
brother or the woods, the ponds, I mean, and not
just a club. I mean there were times where the
whole bag went into the water.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I do remember, and I'm not just making this up
for the sake of a radio show. The one thing
I remember when it comes to golf is during the
time that we were in college together. You one day
said you were going to go golfing with your dad.
It was in the off season, and you were back
home like forty five minutes later, and we're like, I
thought you were golfing today, and you said, yeah, my
dad had like a rough second hole, and that was.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
The end of it.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That we did not play a team.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Bro. You gotta ask Brian Evans. We went to Portugal
to play this one. We're at Tech. We take these.
We go to Ireland and Scotland to play golf with
a big group guys. Brian Evans was on the trip
until the last day. We got to play with coach
and I mean he first hole, shanks a shot and
he takes his iron and it's like he's cutting a tree,
(38:14):
cutting down a tree his golf bag with his iron. Well,
we get to the next hole, he pulls his driver out.
Half the driver comes out. He had broken all his
clubs by hammering, so he had to borrow Brian Evans
and mine's clubs for the next seventeen holes because he
totally cut all his clubs in half from one bad
(38:38):
shot on the first hole.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, it seemed as though, you know that the temper
was fairly famous. I mean, let's be honest, the temple.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
But yeah, I think that's another thing that what he
and mister Hamil relationship was so good. Now, mister Hamill
won an outdoorsman, so he didn't go fishing with the coach,
he didn't go golfing. I mean, their time spent together
was this, you know, two guys hanging out, telling stories
and talking about and so I think that even helped
their relationship more that you know, mister Hamil didn't have
(39:05):
to play golf with them, or tennis or go fishing
with us.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Marion basketball will be in season before we know it.
Pat Knight, the head coach, and Pat, I certainly appreciate
the time today, great stories as always, and your reflection
on Bob Hamil as well, and look forward to having
you back on to talk about everything you got going
on with the Night's basketball program, which will be here
before we know it.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I appreciate you guys have a good one.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
I appreciate it pat Night joining us on the program
Colts Rookies Report Today Veterans Tomorrow Practice getting underway, the
first one at Grand Park ten o'clock on Wednesday. That
holds true for Thursday as well, ten until eleven o'clock
in the morning practice, then Friday from ten until eleven
fifteen at Grand Park. Jjstankovitz of Colts dot com has
(39:54):
a column up after a long discussion interview. I guess
a glimpse into carly Er Gordon and exactly what carli
Ersa Gordon now with the unfortunate passing of her father,
but now becoming Even though all three of Jim Hersey's
daughters will entitle be listed as the directors or the
(40:17):
top brass for the Colts organization, carli Ersa Gordon is
ultimately the one of the three. I think where the
buck stops. But as the owner and CEO by title,
carli Ers Gordon with the article this is carli Ersa
Gordon's vision for the Colts. JJ wroate it joins us. Now, JJ,
let's begin with this. When you were preparing this particular story,
(40:42):
and I want to be you know, clear here to
offer for you. I guess the you know, this is
a situation where you're writing an article about and illuminating
the storyline of the person who is your boss, you know,
when it all comes down to it, so that there
has to be a delicate balance there. But what did
you learn when you were undergoing the process of just
(41:06):
kind of letting colts fans know exactly the vision of
leadership at this point?
Speaker 4 (41:12):
You know, what I learned was the amount of time
and thought and energy that Carly has put into this,
you know, taking over ownership and handem with her sisters
for her dad.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It really is a mess.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
And you know, even in a you know, two hour
conversation I had with her, I still I probably didn't
get the whole scope of everything that she has done
to prepare for this. And the thing that I wanted
to come through in the article, Jake, was, you know,
I've talked with Carly before, and all my conversations with
her are very interesting. I really enjoy them. I think
(41:53):
she's a very thoughtful person. What I wanted to come
through in the article was just she is put a
tremendous amount of work into this moment, and you know,
I think, like the question I've been getting from a
lot of people is like, you know, well, how's it
going to be with you know, the daughters taking over
(42:14):
for their dad. And what I've told them and what
I wanted to get through in this article was like,
it's not like, you know, their dad passed away and
no one had any involvement in the organization, or they
were sort of nominally involved and you know, they were here,
but they weren't really doing a whole lot. It's like, no,
they've been involved, and they have really applied themselves into
certain areas of the organization, and Carly applying herself to
(42:38):
learn as much about football as possible, which really is
in the kind of in the vein of what her
dad did where you know, Jim he when the team
moved from Baltimore to Indianapolis, his dad said, Okay, you're
the GM now, or any of CARSI resigned, You're the GM.
And he was in that role for ten years and
he learned a lot about football through that role. And
(43:01):
I think Carly over the last probably twelve thirty fourteen,
fifteen years has had kind of a Souller education in
the sport. And what I think that allows her to
do is to operate an Antol franchise with certain guardrails
that come from her knowledge of football, which I think
is a big positive for an organization to have that
(43:24):
in ownership, you know, to again kind of set those
guardrails and lay the tracks from the vision for what
the organization is going to feel like without meddling or
you know, criticizing. I guess like unfairly certain aspects of
it that.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
That makes sense j J.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
One of the things that and I'm this is a reality, Okay,
I mean, I'm not going to be naive to realities. Okay,
there probably is a reality. I don't I don't think
amongst all, and I certainly don't think it's probably to
the number that it was, say thirty years ago. But
the reality is that there are those that are going
to say, like, well, you know, a female owner in sport.
(44:03):
I mean that alone is obviously somewhat unique, but a
female owner within the NFL, and then on top of that,
one that inherited the ownership just through familial tie as
opposed to you know, having a business empire elsewhere. Those
are two things that, albeit unfairly, are going to be
(44:26):
assumptions or stereotypes that are placed thereof from the outside.
Do you think that she is aware of that or
even you know what I mean, gets caught up in
that noise.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
I think, you know, sitting here as a man, I
would probably I would have to just guess that you
can't not be aware of it as a woman in
football circles, right, But she has done a very intentional
job of you know, belonging in those environments. And I mean, look'
(45:02):
to kind of your larger point about you know it
is you know, I would assume most ownership groups and
most principal owners are men. But a team right now
in the NFL that is viewed as a model franchise
and how they've built things is the Detroit Lions, whose
principal owner, Sheila Ford hamp is a woman who inherited
the team. So I don't think that is at all
(45:25):
a you know, I think some people might be biased,
but there is a direct example five hours to the
north of us of how a woman run franchise can
operate incredibly well and incredibly successfully. So, you know, and
that's not to say anything of you know, anything else
(45:48):
about the Lions or you know what with the cult situation,
but look, I mean, car Carly knows a lot about football,
she knows a lot about leadership, she knows a lot
about people, and those three things lend themselves very well
to the direction the franchise, an NFL franchise can take
under ownership, whether that owner is a man or a woman.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Do you get the impression jj jj Stekovic is our
guest Colts dot Com. We're talking about and we'll shift
into just a second from now, the fact that the
Colts training camp is getting underway. But Carli ers Gordon,
that is the lead story right now on the website,
and in talking to her or her sisters, you know,
any of the three of them, And I don't know
(46:29):
this answer. Clearly they grew up around football, But did
they did they grow up as big football fans or
is it something that you know, it was just more
the business aspect that was of interest to them.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
No, I mean, they are all very knowledgeable about football,
and the history of this organization means a great deal
to them.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
One of the things that did make the article was,
you know, Carly, Carly was talking about Dwight Spreeeney's Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Uh with this Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
Induction weekend and the kind of you know party they
had there and she something she mentioned was, you know,
I wish you could just bottle up the vibe in
that room and you know, kind of present it because
she was like, no one in that room was talking about,
you know, how shiny.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
The trophy they all won was.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
They were all talking about what it took to get there,
and you know, look, another part of it was, I
think it was at the Super Bowl year where you know,
mister Ersay was very intentional about involving his daughters within
team events, within team things. When you know, back then,
I think Carly would have been in an early twenty
(47:39):
Casey would have been maybe late teams. Calyn would have
been a team I don't you know know off the
top of my head on that, but you know, they're
all very involved and I think they all very much
took after their dad in terms of not just being
you know, involved in the business side, but if our
if our family business is football, you know, we also
(48:00):
really like football. And I think you couldn't spend five
minutes talking to Carly without understanding she loves football. She
is a football junkie. She can get as deep in
the weeds as anyone when it comes to talk and ball,
and you know that that is really cool. She's a
very curious person when it comes to the sport and
(48:20):
because of that, she has learned a lot and really, uh,
you know, really enjoys the intricacies of the game. And
you know, the conversation she's had with you know, coaches
who have been in this building about how do you know,
how do you coach a cover two versus you know,
an inverted cover two? And certain you know, deep in
the weeds details like she has that because she wants
(48:42):
to learn and she definitely loves the sports.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
One of the things I thought was interesting JJ in
your column is the quote and I'm not sure when
and where exactly she had said it, but when talking
about Anthony Richards, and maybe it was to you specifically,
but the quote where she basically said, and I'm paraphrasing,
you know, there is still time for him to to
learn everything that goes into being a starting quarterback in
(49:09):
the NFL. Is there a little bit of like a
desired motivation or push that comes with that quote?
Speaker 4 (49:16):
No, that I included that quote because it came at
the end of the section about you know, her kind
of talking about process and how you know, as an
owner you have to have a very a very broad
horizon to you know, look at things, and you know,
as part of that, she did say, you know that
there we still have time with Anthony, but competition is key,
(49:40):
and you know, nothing brings out the best and someone
like this, you know, having a sense of urgency, you know.
And I included that actually after she was talking about
you know, Grover Stewart and Nick Cross and their developmental
you know, curve, And I just think it was important
because that's what she said in the article. Is it
exactly how the Colts have operated this off season. It's
(50:03):
not like they they have thrown Anthony Richardson into the
number three spot or even the number two spot right
now in the quarterback depth chart. It's been we're bringing
in Daniel Jones to compete. We still believe in Anthony.
We think Daniel Jones has something he can bring to
this team. And at no point has Shane Styken or
Chris Ballard and said we've given up on Anthony Richardson
(50:25):
and Carl urthe Gordon Buttress bat by saying there's still
time everything that Chris Ballard and Shane Styken has said
this off season has been aligned with what she said
in the article. So I Drew, you know, I wanted
to put it in there because I thought it was
important for fans to hear what she had to say
about that situation. But it also came in the larger
(50:47):
context of having a process and you know, tolling that
fine line between being patient but not being too patient,
or you know, being reactionary but not being over reactionary,
you know, when it comes to issues with think organization.
So yeah, but again, Jake, it really was aligned with
everything else that we have heard from the coach and
(51:08):
the GM of the football team this offseason.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Jj, do we know you know, one of the favorite
things JJ Stankovic is our guest from Colts dot com
Colts Again, Rookies reporting today, Veterans tomorrow, and then practice
gets under a Wednesday ten o'clock in the morning from
ten until eleven. That same schedule Thursday and Friday, Friday
goes until eleven fifteen. You know, one of the things
(51:31):
I think that fans most enjoyed about training camp was,
in fact, the Jim Mersey access, the fact that he
was out there. He would you know fans could talk
to him. Also the fact that he would answer a
lot of questions to the media, you know, at some
point during camp and just kind of give almost like
a state of the Union type thing. Do we anticipate
that that continues?
Speaker 4 (51:52):
You know, I don't know that that that's you know,
probably above my pay grade here, but you know, I
do know like the press conference that currently ARTHSA Gordon
Casey Poyt and Kaylen Jackson had back in June. You know,
they they answered plenty of questions. I thought they all were,
you know, very impressive in that press conference. I don't
(52:15):
know what it will look like. And that's kind of
about all I can I can I can you know,
answer you on.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
That one, Jake JJ. In terms of the I guess
camp itself, the biggest storyline to you of intrigue, not
including the quarterback position would be.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
What okay, thank you, because I was like, if you
ask me the biggest storyline, you know you know what
it is.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Of course for me, I I'm really interested in.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
How the defense comes together. If you look at what
lou An Riumo had in Cincinnati when those defenses were
good back in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,
it was a lot of veterans, a lot of veterans
in the back end of that defense. You know, you
look at Von Bell and Jesse Bates at safety, Knobia
Wuzi a cornerbacks, and I think what you look at
what this Colts defense has in the back end are
(53:05):
a lot of veterans and a lot of guys who
I think it's the way lou Aroumo wants to play defense.
And that's not just Tarvarius Ward and Cambinen who came
in saf season very obviously targeted moves, but you know,
Kenny Moore has inside outside flexibility. You know, Nick Cross
really came on last year in a really impressive way.
(53:25):
I think there's some really interesting stuff that lou Aroumo
can do with those guys in the back end. And
then do we see more blitzes? You know, Louenarumo is
a guy who isn't you know, we're not talking about
Brian flora is here or you know, Link Martindale, but
a guy who is going to blitz more than Gus
Bradley did. And how do how do those blitzes look?
How does the personnel upfront. Look with being in more
(53:48):
dying situations where you've got six DB's on the field,
I just think there's a lot that I really can't
wait to unbox with that defense in camp, because I
do think they have a chance to be pretty good.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Night.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
We got to probably get the path trush to take
a step forward. I think that that kind of starts
with Layati Blotto taking a step forward.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
But defensively, man, there's gonna.
Speaker 4 (54:09):
Be some really interesting things that you know, I can't
wait to kind of track over the course of a
couple of weeks up a grand park.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
And again everything getting underway Wednesday at ten o'clock in
the morning. I assume JJ once again all of the
like the family fun events and the kid events and
everything else that is accessible just to the outside of
the camper as you walk in as all all back
there once again, right.
Speaker 4 (54:33):
It's back there. And I got to tell you can
find my kids at Blues trick Shot Zone where they
will be attempting to blues coming up with like a
new trick shot every day, you know, those like videos
that like blue and like Dude perfect to You can
find my kids there, and you might even find me
there if I need a little break from the eater
or something, will pop over there and try to do
(54:54):
a trick shot, which, by the way, when Blue had
that set up at our media day, I did hit
the trick shot. He had the little ping pong ball
pounds and only three tries.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
The only weird thing about that is your kids are
twenty six and twenty two.
Speaker 4 (55:05):
Right, no, they are five years old, But as a
thirty six year old, I would happily spend some time there.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Let's go, right, yeah, why not?
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
All right? Everything getting underway Wednesday, it will be we
will be out there doing the show Wednesday, Thursday and
Friday again Colts dot com, where you can read not
just that story, but all the coverage as it relates
to Colts Camp. JJ appreciate it as always.
Speaker 4 (55:29):
Yeah, thanks for haarving me on, Jake appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
I appreciate it. JJ Stankovi. It's joining us from Colts
dot Com.
Mike Chapple joining us on the program of course, from
WXI in Fox fifty nine and CBS four on this
the eve of report day for the Colts and then
everything getting underway ten o'clock in the morning practice number one.
We will get into all of that in just a minute,
but Mike, before we do that, I wanted to I
guess sidebar in this area. I talked about him earlier,
(00:23):
but as somebody who is yourself, you know, a giant
within the print broadcast world of sports media and Indiana,
the passing of Bob Hamill at the age of eighty
eight over the weekend, his family making that announcement, I
just wanted to give you the opportunity to share kind
of your recollection or just your thoughts on the passing
(00:46):
of Bob Hamil.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Normally with the media, we sort of stand in our
own little circles.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I'm in Indy and he was in Bloomington, and I
was her friend, no acquaintance, yes, but the admiration is undeniable.
And the thing that people have to understand about about
a bat Bob Hamil type person is he's covering the
(01:14):
beat in his city. I you basketball, and not only
that he's got to deal with Bob Knight. And if
you think that's easy, you're crazy. I did it from
the from the periphery with when I was ten years
at Anderson and we had the what we always call
it the Madison Heights Phil Buck pipeline. To I you,
(01:35):
Bobby Wilkerson and Ray Talbert who I ran into you
today was great, But Winston Morgan, Stu Robinson. Uh So
I dealt with Bob just kind of patty, how you doing,
about how you doing? But nothing nothing, you know, even
the remotely close. But people have to understand how hard
(01:57):
it is to maintain your reputation of objectivity when you're
covering the beat in your community and you have to
be fair objective and you have to deal with stuff.
You're right, maybe p O and the King. You know,
(02:22):
Bob Knight, So I thought you did a tremendous job.
And I never would have wanted to be in his shoes.
Had to do what he did because there had to
be times that he had to sort of just kind
of bows in and say whatever. But again, the footprints, well,
you know it's it's I always say, we all want
(02:44):
to leave some kind of footprints, just so the people
remember that you were there. Well, Bob hammil left footprints,
let me tell you. Uh, he helped so many people,
the Rick Bosices and people like that that I've dealt
with as well. And I, you know, David Hall. I
just think it's incredible and we knew he was not
(03:05):
in the greatest of health, but kind of just makes
me think how old I'm getting when people that I
grew up with and around aren't no longer with us.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Do you When you look at it, Chap, and you
look at Bob Hamill's career, and he came to Bloomington
in nineteen sixty six, which means that he got there
six years before Bob Knight. But been you know Bob
Knight certainly you know he went to the final four
and seventy three, so he was often running in terms
of his influence speaking of Bob Knight's and having to
(03:38):
balance and delicately balance exactly what you're talking about in
terms of objectivity, but at the same time access, I
mean truth be told. Sure did Bob Hamill at any
point to your recollection almost also serve not just as
the immediate window to Bob Knightights world, but also kind
(04:01):
of an intermediary between Bob Knight and the rest of
the media. In other words, was there did he almost
buy just proximity become the guy that had to kind
of serve as the middleman in the riffs that Knight
would have with the rest of the media world.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Probably, And that's what I say. The balancing act is
I can only imagine so tremendous, because you can't just
come out and rip the guy, I mean just totally
ripping him, because you need access the next day, the
next week, the next month. So it's very difficult to
keep your credibility while while calling you a spade a
(04:43):
spade when it comes to the many things that Knight
did good and bad, and there were plenty of both,
So I think it's really hard. I can't imagine. I
dealt with Jimersay for forty some years, and he respected
the fact that if he did something stupid, I'd calling
(05:03):
about it. You know, we didn't always agree. I just
think that when you when and and and that theirs
was about that level because again in Bloomington it was
IU basketball and oh, by the way, they played football. Yeah,
he sort of got you to the basketball season. So
I wouldn't have wanted that job. Seriously, during my time
(05:25):
at the Star, we went through three or four guys
that that dealt with IU as a beat and everybody
had horror stories of being yelled at or sent out
of the locker room or whatever. And again I was
when I'm covering him and Anderson with our guys that
were there, You're you're You're not one of the guys
(05:47):
like the Bloomington guys and even the indie guys. But
I saw how hard it was, how hard it could
be to deal with Bob Knight, how he just simply
talked down to people and dismissed people. And I think
he was hard on Bob Hammel at times, because that's
who Bob Knight was. Uh So, I again a legend,
(06:09):
and what he did was was helped so many people,
and he dealt was a very very difficult situation probably
about as well as you could. And did things maybe
go totally unreported, I don't know, but I thought he
handled it about as well as you could. Understanding that
(06:30):
while yes, I got this job as as the beat
guy and the guy always there, he had to he
had to keep in mind you always had to be
able to be there, so a difficult, difficult balancing act,
and I thought he did it about as well as
anybody could have. And we'll would do.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
By the way, Chap before we get to the Colts.
And I know that you and I have crossed this
bridge before, but sometimes it's worth doing again because it's fun.
And that is when you really think about, Like right now,
if you just stop and close your eyes and you
think about one of those games, you know of Stu
Robinson going up against you know, a young Troy Lewis,
(07:10):
or Madison Heights going to battle at the Wigwam against
Anderson or Highland coming in and taking on Madison Heights
or whatever it might be. The pack nature of the gym,
the frenzy, the level of play that was there, the
rivalry amongst all of it, and the town essentially shutting
down on a Friday or Saturday night for high school basketball.
(07:35):
In the moment that those things were taking place in
the late seventies early eighties, I don't know that any
of us realized that what we were seeing is something
that at some point two old guys on the radio
would be talking about him as the Glory years. But
it truly was a magical time that I don't know
that it ever comes back.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, and again I mentioned very tall. But my grandkids
participate in a basketball cam Mount Vernon Middle School last week.
Luke Levyan Anne and Ray Tolbert was one of the counselors,
one of the main guys, and I made it a
point to go over there and spent ten fifteen minutes
and we just talked. His eyes lit up. We go
(08:14):
back at he's a friend. He's the guy that through
the year. Jesus. Yeah. If I if I see somebody
walking in the ball like him, which stop and talk,
probably have lunch. But he he was the most dominant
high school player I ever covered. Not the best. Troy
Lewis was damn near the best. He was good.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
He was really good.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah. I still there were moments and I can still
remember a game his senior year and they're playing l
Woods and now what's got Evie Cotton name sticks in
my head and they said, we're not going to be
you know, in all Ray Talbert, We're gonna take it
to the lane. He blocked eighteen shots, eighteen shots and you
know so, but that was him, mister basketball that year.
(08:57):
One of the more talented Indian All Star teams with
Talburt and Drake Morris and Steve Risley and Rick Lance
and on and on, and it was totally blown up
because Drake Morris thought he should have been and probably
should have been mister Basketball. And it just went went
to hell when you left chemistry. But I still see
(09:18):
there were years in Madison County that I would have
taken our Madison County All Star team and given Indian
All Stars a hell of a game. I believe that
to this day with all the talent, and yeah, I
know I harp on that. But one of the things
I've got is on my key ring, I've got a
(09:39):
nineteen eighty one. It's a memorable thing when all those
little teat chain things in nineteen eighty one IU championship
and it was Ray. It was Ray and Isaiah Thomas
and Lanta Turner. I was there for the Bobby Wilkerson,
both of them into specthim in Philly. So those were
the glory days in Anderson and for a while for IU,
(10:00):
I mean really the unbeaten team and all that stuff.
So I never grow tired. You know, football is what
I do, and that's what I've come to be. But
for my ten years at Anderson, Glory Days of nine
thousand the Wigwam and four or five thousand at Highland
and Madsen Heights, and what great times, just great times.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
By the way, seventy six and eighty seven the bookends
of Bob Knight's titles. I always found it fascinating that
in both National Championship games, player number twenty suffered an
injury early in the game that knocked him out of
the game and left him scored us for the rest
of the game. Bobby Wilkerson in seventy six, Ricky Callaway
in eighty seven. My brain is really weird and I
have no idea how that even pops into it.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And again I talked to our bosses, just sending me
to each to each National Championship in seventy six and
eighty one, and I get there and to Philly the Spectrum,
and thing's a buzz against Michigan and Bobby gets blown up,
gets knocked out, literally knocked out, I don't know, five
minutes in the game. Yep, WAYMN Brits elbow. So so
(11:02):
you know, it was really pretty amazing. And I think
in the semi finals Wilkerson had like twenty rebounds against UCLA.
So again I just think it's I know, people thinking, yeah,
move on, no, that's all gone. Those were great times
with the Kent Bensons. And I'm still p o that
Bobby Wilkerson didn't make the Olympic team. I really am
(11:23):
heat because he deserved it. But I'll never forget those times.
And and my son told me, said, I didn't know
you you missed high school basketball that much. I said, well,
back then it was. It was special for ten years.
And just some of that memories is now Mark Barnheiser.
You know, we said all this stuff with Brooks Barnheiser.
(11:45):
I covered Mark Barnheiser when he would drop thirty every
night for lapel. So it was this a great time.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Chap. Let's get to my chapel. Our guest by the way,
CBS four and w x I in Fox fifth tonight. Okay, Chap. Obviously,
Anderson did serve at one time as the home for
Colts Camp. It is now at Grand Park and Westfield.
Things get underway in terms of reporting tomorrow practice on Wednesday.
One of the things that I'm most curious about. We're
gonna talk plenty of plenty about the quarterback and other
(12:14):
such situations over the course of camp. But I really
am curious to see how, if in any way things
feel look or seem different now without Jim Irsay and I,
you know, listen, in terms of fan engagement, kind hearted connection, enthusiasm,
(12:37):
all of those things for Jim Rsay will be missed
without question as a man, But just in terms of
the operative standpoint of things and the way that things go.
Do you think this year we will see differences?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
No?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Well, I don't think we're going to have that sit
down with Harvey like we did with Jim every you
know whatever. It was a fifth or sixth day of
training camp when he comes out and a golf cart.
We talked for We talked for twenty minutes and he
answers three questions because that's what that's that's twenty minutes
with Jim. I don't think we're going to have that.
(13:13):
I just don't think barring this team, this thing going
downhill real quick. I'm talking one in six. I just
don't see any way there's any changes people will notice.
I just don't uh. Things are in place, and Carly
and the daughters, the sisters. We'll allow it to play out, barring,
(13:37):
like I said, a catastrophes to start the season. Now,
after the season, we'll see. But the changes that could
have been made or whatever, that time has passed, so
I don't I really don't think we're gonna see much.
I just don't know that Carly is going to be
(13:58):
every two months or what of her three months getting
together with the media. I just don't know that that's
going to be part of her operations. I really don't.
So beyond that, I just don't. And again, she's not
gonna beet there throwing many footballs with one hundred dollars
bills wrapped around them. That's where this time of the
(14:18):
year was so cool with with with Jim, because he
he understood more than anybody the importance of fan interaction
interaction during this time. He knew that during the season,
it's hard for people to spend four or five six
hundred dollars to go to a game, but maybe it
(14:40):
cost you five or ten bucks to go to Westfield
and the players are accessible. He understood that, and not
that Carbly doesn't. I think this is this, this will
be the operations moving forward. But he enjoyed going out
there and signing autographs and waving the fans and throwing
on a hundred bills, and we'll miss that. But I
(15:04):
just don't think. Maybe I'm way wrong and I'm missing something,
but I just don't know that there's an occasion to
where Carl can put her fingerprints on their franchise in
a public way. I just don't see it unless it
comes time for a move because things aren't working out,
and I don't foresee that.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You know what's interesting, Chap and I made this reference
earlier we kind of fans, media whatever. And I'm not
going to say people made fun of it, but you
certainly saw people that kind of would raise the question
of why is Jim Mersey's daughter walking around with a
headset on? Why is she carrying a clipboard on the headset?
What's going on there? And people kind of rolled their
(15:47):
eyes at it. But now that she is the one
in charge, aren't you glad that that was taking place?
Because this is not I think that there is a
stereotype amongst billionaire family where the matriarch or the patriarch
of the family passes and then suddenly the kids take
(16:07):
over and in the movies or in the Netflix shows
when that happens, they air drop some trust fund kid
off of the ski slopes and Aspen and now suddenly
take over the company and the family business. And there
has to be some relief of knowing that there is
a level of competence and understanding of the behind the
(16:30):
scenes stuff because she's been preparing herself for this moment.
And I think now we can look back on those
things that people might have rolled their eyes at and say,
I'm glad it went that way. You agree with that sentiment.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, So all they all have all free had in
their own in their own lanes that they're at. But
with her, she's really done exactly what her dad did.
You remember how he started off. He did everything as
a go for early on, and he learned, and that's
how you do you learn. I don't think she's picked
up jocks like Jim did. I hope she's not. But
(17:05):
that's the way you you know, Reggie was Reggie Wade
told us how if she's in meetings, she's taking notes.
He said, you better be ready to answer questions if
she's got them. So and it wasn't being meddling, it
was learning and demanding that you learn. So everything that
she done, I don't know that the local media rolled
our eyes, but we noticed her. You know, you know
(17:26):
what's her on game that she's out there during practice
when we're out there, she's out there and she's paying attention,
and like like on game day, she doesn't. I think
her head sets one way, and I don't think she's
sending messages to the coaches. But I do believe like
on a Sunday or a Monday, whenever they talk, she
(17:48):
would she would say maybe why did you do this?
What were you thinking? And that's what that's what they
should and not to be critical, but to say, you know, understand.
So she's no other dad did as far as learning
as much as possible. Now, there will be moves in
the future where we scratch our head and say why
did you do that? It won't be because she doesn't
(18:09):
know what the hell she's doing. It won't be because
she she's prepared herself as much as possible for every
aspect of the job she has. Whether that's going to
be reinforcing the GM, the head coach player acquisition, I
don't know that she'll be. She'll have as much input
(18:29):
as Jim did because because that's her job now, cause
certainly I don't think to tell Chris Ballard, hey, let's
go get this guy. But when he comes to say,
we're really interested in this guy that guy, then she'll
know first, she'll know who the hell it is, and
then she can offer some intelligent input on why they should,
(18:50):
why they shouldn't, what's the price is going to be.
So everything you said I agree with, and she and
her daughter are sisters, are as prepared as possible for
this transition because it's being going on for a while,
for a decade at least in at a higher level
(19:11):
over the past couple of years when Jim's not been
in the greatest of help.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Chap let me ask you this as we head into camp,
and in conclusion here Mike Chapel, our guest on the
wildly popular and always busy and available again to be
sponsored guest line, chap when you watch training camp, and
you've seen a lot of them, I want you to
kind of speak to colts fans that might be going
out and watching practice, And it is great that people
(19:36):
have the access to go out and watch practice, but
when you look at position battles or players that either
camp is allowing them the opportunity to rise up and
cement a position on the team, or camp is all
of a sudden they fell short and it cost them
(19:58):
a position on the team. What are you looking for?
What tells you, as the trained eye that has been
through forty plus of these What little things, body, language wise,
whatever it might be. Can you see on a field
that tells you that a guy is having a good
or a bad camp, aside from simply the guy next
(20:19):
to him just ran faster than he did well.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And as much as we think we know, keep in
mind that ad Mitchell had a great training camp, a
great training camp, and then not so much in the
regular season. But where I really like to pay attention
is and yes, we're going to be charting completions and
incompletions by the quarterbacks because because but if the fans
get a chance, go down in the middle of the
(20:46):
two fiegals when they have the offensive line and defensive
lines going against each other, and this will be the
first chance because in the off season they don't you're
not hitting, you're not you know, really really going to
one hundred, you know, full speed. But go down and
watch the pass rushers go down and watch the U
blitzing linebacker take on a running back. That's where you
(21:08):
really see. That's when we're gonna see the offensive line.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
What have you got?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Defensive line? You know, Samson ebucom Wordsey Allens is returning
Leo la to is he gonna make that big jump?
That's where you really see the spirited things. Offensive line,
defensive line, Yes, receivers and dbs. Yes, running backs. That's
really hard. You're gonna see Jonathan Taylor, you know, run
(21:34):
through a tackle and go fifty yards and the fans
go crazy and the linebacker says, I had him right here.
We just can't tackle these guys. The area that's most
enjoyable are our pass rushers interior and on the edge
going against the offensive line. Those are the two bedrocks
of a team. And it's really going to be cool
(21:56):
to see how well the edge guys are coming along
and up, how well the offensive line with losing Kelly
and Will Fryes adapts. This is the first chance to
see the lineman really go at it. That's where you
really see the sparks fly.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Really.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
The players will report tomorrow. Practice gets underway Wednesday at
ten Mike Chapel has been ready for it since like
nineteen eighty four. So everything getting underway out of you.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Just keep stacking him.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Listen, I got you a gift. I got your gift,
and I'll give it to you on Wednesday. Chap how's that?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I hear that. Until I see it, I just I'll
take your word.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
All right, Well, we'll present it to you on Wednesday.
If I see out there, chap all right.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
One thing, one thing just for factual. Rookies will start
reporting today. Rookies today, everybody tomorrow on first practice on Wednesday.
So first access for fans is is.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Wednesday, Wednesday, ten o'clock practice gets underway, first ball, A snap. Appreciate.
I had a Chapel talk here Mike Chapel, CBS four
wxin Fox fifty nine where you can see and hear
all of his coverage when it comes to the Colts
camp taking place halfway through the program here on a Monday,
(23:16):
Jay Query Eddie Garrison here as well, joining us now
on the program. He is the head basketball coach of
the Marrion Knights, and as we have been talking about
and a few occasions today, reflecting upon the life and
career of Bob Hamil. I figured that Pat Knight would
be able to share his thoughts on it because and Pat,
(23:36):
you tell me if I'm wrong in this. I don't
know what your relationship was with Bob Hamill growing up,
but I know what Bob Hamill meant to your father
and that working relationship that became a friendship between the
two of them. And my initial thought was I wonder
if Pat almost saw Bob as like an uncle type figure.
But thanks for joining us, and just wanted to give
(23:57):
you the chance to kind of upon what relationship you
might have had with Bob Hamil.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Well, you know the one thing you always got to remember,
your dad's friends are not necessarily your friends, especially when
you got a famous dad. I mean you find out quick.
You know you don't hear from guys man. You know
that bothered you always calling it because they couldn't get
a hold of your dad. But you know, mister Hamil,
(24:25):
though it was like one of my dad's true friends.
You know, my dad always had a saying and I'll
clean it up forget them all but six, And it
has to do with really your six best friends are
going to be your Paul Barrow and mister Hamil would
have been one of those you know, he's one of
(24:45):
those type guys with my dad and you know my
relationship now. He's always great to me. You know, his
son Babysip, sat my brother and I his son Rick,
who's a doctor, babysatus when we're kids. He worked my
dad's camps. He had actually took me to Star Wars.
I had to sit on Rick's lap to see Star
Wars when it was at the Vonley Theater in Bloomington
(25:06):
in like nineteen seventy seven. And so you know, I've
known the Hamills, you know, my whole life. And but
but then you know, I didn't see him for a
long time. Then when we brought Coach back to live
in Bloomington, you know, four or five years before he passed,
it was great to see mister Hamill again because he's
always coming in and every week having dinner with my
(25:29):
dad and checking up on him. And but from my standpoint,
just I don't know if my dad had a better friend,
you know, just because you know, mister Hamill could kind
of tell my dad's stuff that other people would be
scared to tell them. But just their love for sports,
I mean, you talk about two guys and they could
sit down and talk about baseball, football, basketball. I mean
(25:53):
it didn't matter. Most of the time. They didn't even
talk about Indiana basketball. I mean, it's usually you know,
my dad was a huge Yankees fan. Mister Hamil's a
Chicago White Sox fan. I mean, even towards the end,
even with my dad's Alzheimer's, he'd remember that. He'd always
wear his Yankees cap when mister Hamill would come visit.
And so it was just a great friend of my
(26:13):
dad's and helped my dad a lot, you know, just
through his whole life, just being one of those guys
my dad could talk to. He would never take anything personal,
just kind of knew how to handle my dad's temperament.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
What do you think it was pat that allowed you know,
I mean your father in particular, So Bob Hamill arrived
in Bloomington in nineteen sixty six. He grew up in Huntington,
wrote for the Huntington newspaper and then came to the
Bloomington Harald telephone now the Herald Times. What do you
think it was that allowed your dad, I guess to
trust him and let him in because you know, while
(26:48):
I did not know your father, well, obviously, I think
everybody knows that he didn't let a lot of people
in that inner circle. What do you think was the
source of the mutual respect between the two.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Well, you know, talking to mister Hamill, especially these last
few years, you know, when he'd come and check on
my dad and we talked about it. So, you know,
mister Hamill's brother was a really good high school coach,
and when my dad got the job, his brother actually
like called him up and said, Hey, this guy's gonna
be great for Indiana. You know, I look what he's
(27:22):
done at West Point. We're finally going to play defense. Well,
mister Hamill wrote a skating article how my dad was
going to be awfuled Indiana. No one was going to
like the defense. I love scoring games. And so they
actually ended up at the same gas station pumping gas
for their cars, and of course mister Hamil's like, can
(27:44):
I look over there and there's your dad And I'm like,
oh boy. And so of course my dad gave him,
you know, a little heck. And but mister Hamill kind
of apologized and said, hey, this is that was just
my my feelings, blah, blah blah, and you know, miss
Hamil said he was just upfront with you know, and
and my dad was just like, hey, you know what,
(28:05):
when we do a real interview, I'll come pick you
up and bring you know, bring you by the office
and listen, sit down. So mister Hamil thinks it was
just being honest. Even though he wrote a skating arracle,
he just told him the reasons why he wrote it,
what his feelings were. But you know, he'd like to
know why my dad thinks his style would work. And
(28:26):
so I think, you know, talking mister Hamil, it's just
his honesty. And you know he one lot favoritism. I
mean there's other stories like in seventy seven he wrote
an oracle. You know, guys were transferring, they didn't finish,
you know, had a down year after going on the
feed in seventy six, and my dad called him like, hey,
I thought we were friends, and you know, mister Hamil's like,
(28:47):
we are, but I have a job to do. So
I think my dad always appreciated that, you know, if
you were honest with him and upfront and didn't sugarcoat thanks.
And I think that's what got their relationship off to
a great start.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Pat had once heard Pat Knight, our guest, the head
basketball coach at Marion, I had once heard that when
Woody Hayes was fired from Ohio State for punching Charlie
Bouman after the Gator Bowl, you know, with Clemson, that
it was your dad, Bob Knight that called Woody Hayes
and said, look, you've got to back down from this,
(29:20):
like you can't. You've got to apologize to the kid.
You've got to make amends here. And that that And
I don't know if that story is embellished or if
that was accurate that it was Bob Knight that called
Woody Hayes, But either way, I'm curious. Do you think
there were ever occasions where your dad may have crossed
the line or aired and Bob Hamil was the one
that spoke to him. Well, but well, I'm saying we
(29:43):
know that there were times he crossed the liner air,
But were there times where Bob Hamil was the one
that maybe was the one that had the ability to say, Bob,
you've got to You've got to walk this back.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Oh yeah, no, definitely. That's why I was talking about, like,
you know, the six Paul bears. He was one of
those guys and he could take it. You know, he'd
gotten kicked out of the office of the locker room,
but you know knew he was going to get a
phone call later, you know, if coach was wrong and apologized.
But he was one of those few guys that could
kind of you know, you may want to think about this,
(30:15):
you know, and that story is true about Coach Hayes,
by the way, but uh, yeah, mister Hamill is always
one of those guys that you know, when the crap
would hit the fan, you know it was coach. It
wouldn't even have to be on the basketball court, you know,
just you know, if he was upset with somebody or
did something. Yeah, mister Hamill is always one of those
(30:36):
guys that you know could kind of tell him in
a good way, knew how to approach it. But then
he didn't. But he knew that, you know, the messenger
could get killed at times, and but it never bothered him,
never held a grudge or anything because he knew deep
down that you know, my dad loved him, and you know,
eventually it may take a couple of good days. If
my dad was wrong, he would either stop by or
(30:58):
call him up. And but that was a great thing
about that relationship to have a guy like that and
not one of your assistants, not you know, an athletic director.
You know, mister Hamill was a writer and just a
guy kind of on the outside looking in. And so
I think my dad could even trust him even more
from that standpoint, because you know, he didn't work for
(31:19):
the university one on his staff, and so mister Hamill
won a yes man. And so yeah, I think that
that's a good question, and you hit it right. Other
than those, yeah, mister Hamil is one of those few
people you know that could really, you know, have those
conversations with my dad.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I'm curious, by the way, and I did not know, Pat.
Maybe I should have done this. I did not know
that your father, Bob Knight, was a big Yankees fan.
I would have assumed a Cardinals fan because of his
relationship with Larusa, or even a Red Sox fan because
of his admiration for Ted Williams. But when you were
growing up, one thing I don't recall you mentioning much
(31:56):
was baseball itself. Did you have a baseball team growing up?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah? So my dad, so the Reds were our team
growing up. I was bat boy for the Reds. We'd
go down to Tampa Bay, stay at the Reds Hotel.
We were really close to Sparky Anderson, the big Red Machine.
You know, I was only like five six years old,
but I used Pete Pete Rose gave me his glove.
My brother and I his glove down at spring training.
(32:23):
And I actually used Pete Rose glove for my whole
baseball career. Everyone thought I was full of it because
they had fourteen on the thumb and rose across the knuckles.
Everyone thought I took a sharpie and did that. But
it's actually Pete Rose's real glove. And so the Reds
were our team. And then of course my dad and
the Cardinals. We went over there all the time, and
(32:44):
LaRussa was there. But for him though as a kid,
it was always the Yankees through his whole life. And
then you know, he got to have a great relationship
with George Steinbrenner, and so his mom was a big
Cleveland Indians fan being there in Ohio. But my dad,
for some reason, just you know, it was probably because
they were so good, grew up just loving all the
(33:04):
Yankees and but when it came to us growing up.
That was the time he got to know Sparky Anderson.
So we were around the Breads a lot when when
when I was growing up, So that was my team.
But my dad always had that love for the Yankees though,
And so it's funny, you know, he and Hamill, even
my dad towards the end with the Alzheimer's, we could
get him going when it came to the Yankees and
(33:25):
the White Sox, and coach would put that hat on
when he knew mister Hamill was coming over. And uh.
But as one of the ways, you know, if he
was one having one of those bad days, we wasn't
talking a lot. We could always get him going with
something when it came to baseball.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And then what about from an NFL standpoint, I mean,
you and I grew up in an era where there
was no NFL team for the better part of our childhood.
Did you have an NFL team growing up?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
The Bengals. Yep, Cincinnati was because it's it's close by.
I actually got to tell my wife because we got
tickets to go to the Bengals Lions uh in October.
And I grew up, I actually got my dad got
me a Bengals helmet as a little kid for Christmas.
So it was the Bengals and the Reds when I
was growing up.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I would have thought he would have been your dad,
a Browns fan, just growing up in the proximity to Cleveland,
how big the Browns were, especially in that era.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
He was well for some reason when we got to Bloomington,
everything was the Reds and the Bengals. But you know,
he has great stories of you know, meeting Coach Brown
and you know Hablecheck. No one knows this. Haplecheck was
going to play for the Browns because right orback was
so cheap with his contracts. My dad actually went down
(34:38):
to training camp when Habilcheck was trying out for the
Browns and actually convinced him to sign the contract with
the Celtics. And so, but it's kind of funny. I
don't know what happened with my dad kind of leaving Ohio,
kind of left the Cleveland teams behind, and growing up
is always the Cincinnati days.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
You know, Pat, you should do you should have a
radio show. You should just do three hours of storytime
with that night, I'll take come in here and just
do it for three hours.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Wait, maybe if I have a job where you know,
I got where I don't have to be careful.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, here's the other thing, and I'm impressed by this,
and this is a sign of your maturation, which is impressive.
I don't know what, fifteen eighteen minutes here and this
time no swearing, which is impressive, right, I promise you.
I mean practice makes perfect, right.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
But I got a great handle story that honest got
So you've seen coaches out takes, the golf out takes,
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
So we were talking and this is just you know,
here was a few months before like coach passed, and
we were talking about the golf out takes, and I
was telling my stories about you know clubs and the
I mean clubs in the lakes, up in the trees.
And so that day when Coach picked him up to
(36:00):
do their first like real interview, they stopped off at
the IU course and they got out of the car
and mister Hamil was like, you know, what were we doing?
And my dad was like, hey, just walk with me.
So they went to this one hole and my dad
went in the woods, started climbing up the tree. You know,
(36:20):
Mister Hamil's like what are you doing. He's like, well,
I threw my putter up here the other day he
got stuck in the tree. My dad climbed up the
tree and mister Hamill said, right when he got up
to the limb, the girls golf team started coming through,
and so my dad was so embarrassed. He didn't want
the girls golf team to see the brand new basketball
(36:41):
coach up in the tree looking for his putter. Mister
Hamil said, he clung to that tree. Why, Like four
foursomes of girls went through, and mister Hamil said, mister
Hamil said, he just acted like he was going for
like a morning walk, you know. And he said, no,
I mean, I'd never even heard that story before. And
he said, my dad clung to life, didn't say a word,
(37:02):
and like four foursomes of the girls went through, and
never knew that the new basketball coaches up in the
tree getting this putter.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
If you had to guess, was that the only time
he ever had to go up in a tree and
get his putter?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Oh no, But when he got older, he'd send my
brother or the woods, the ponds, I mean, and not
just a club. I mean there were times where the
whole bag went into the water.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I do remember, and I'm not just making this up
for the sake of a radio show. The one thing
I remember when it comes to golf is during the
time that we were in college together. You one day
said you were going to go golfing with your dad.
It was in the off season, and you were back
home like forty five minutes later, and we're like, I
thought you were golfing today, and you said, yeah, my
dad had like a rough second hole, and that was.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
The end of it.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That we did not play a team.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Bro. You gotta ask Brian Evans. We went to Portugal
to play this one. We're at Tech. We take these.
We go to Ireland and Scotland to play golf with
a big group guys. Brian Evans was on the trip
until the last day. We got to play with coach
and I mean he first hole, shanks a shot and
he takes his iron and it's like he's cutting a tree,
(38:14):
cutting down a tree his golf bag with his iron. Well,
we get to the next hole, he pulls his driver out.
Half the driver comes out. He had broken all his
clubs by hammering, so he had to borrow Brian Evans
and mine's clubs for the next seventeen holes because he
totally cut all his clubs in half from one bad
(38:38):
shot on the first hole.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, it seemed as though, you know that the temper
was fairly famous. I mean, let's be honest, the temple.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
But yeah, I think that's another thing that what he
and mister Hamil relationship was so good. Now, mister Hamill
won an outdoorsman, so he didn't go fishing with the coach,
he didn't go golfing. I mean, their time spent together
was this, you know, two guys hanging out, telling stories
and talking about and so I think that even helped
their relationship more that you know, mister Hamil didn't have
(39:05):
to play golf with them, or tennis or go fishing
with us.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Marion basketball will be in season before we know it.
Pat Knight, the head coach, and Pat, I certainly appreciate
the time today, great stories as always, and your reflection
on Bob Hamil as well, and look forward to having
you back on to talk about everything you got going
on with the Night's basketball program, which will be here
before we know it.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I appreciate you guys have a good one.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
I appreciate it pat Night joining us on the program
Colts Rookies Report Today Veterans Tomorrow Practice getting underway, the
first one at Grand Park ten o'clock on Wednesday. That
holds true for Thursday as well, ten until eleven o'clock
in the morning practice, then Friday from ten until eleven
fifteen at Grand Park. Jjstankovitz of Colts dot com has
(39:54):
a column up after a long discussion interview. I guess
a glimpse into carly Er Gordon and exactly what carli
Ersa Gordon now with the unfortunate passing of her father,
but now becoming Even though all three of Jim Hersey's
daughters will entitle be listed as the directors or the
(40:17):
top brass for the Colts organization, carli Ersa Gordon is
ultimately the one of the three. I think where the
buck stops. But as the owner and CEO by title,
carli Ers Gordon with the article this is carli Ersa
Gordon's vision for the Colts. JJ wroate it joins us. Now, JJ,
let's begin with this. When you were preparing this particular story,
(40:42):
and I want to be you know, clear here to
offer for you. I guess the you know, this is
a situation where you're writing an article about and illuminating
the storyline of the person who is your boss, you know,
when it all comes down to it, so that there
has to be a delicate balance there. But what did
you learn when you were undergoing the process of just
(41:06):
kind of letting colts fans know exactly the vision of
leadership at this point?
Speaker 4 (41:12):
You know, what I learned was the amount of time
and thought and energy that Carly has put into this,
you know, taking over ownership and handem with her sisters
for her dad.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It really is a mess.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
And you know, even in a you know, two hour
conversation I had with her, I still I probably didn't
get the whole scope of everything that she has done
to prepare for this. And the thing that I wanted
to come through in the article, Jake, was, you know,
I've talked with Carly before, and all my conversations with
her are very interesting. I really enjoy them. I think
(41:53):
she's a very thoughtful person. What I wanted to come
through in the article was just she is put a
tremendous amount of work into this moment, and you know,
I think, like the question I've been getting from a
lot of people is like, you know, well, how's it
going to be with you know, the daughters taking over
(42:14):
for their dad. And what I've told them and what
I wanted to get through in this article was like,
it's not like, you know, their dad passed away and
no one had any involvement in the organization, or they
were sort of nominally involved and you know, they were here,
but they weren't really doing a whole lot. It's like, no,
they've been involved, and they have really applied themselves into
certain areas of the organization, and Carly applying herself to
(42:38):
learn as much about football as possible, which really is
in the kind of in the vein of what her
dad did where you know, Jim he when the team
moved from Baltimore to Indianapolis, his dad said, Okay, you're
the GM now, or any of CARSI resigned, You're the GM.
And he was in that role for ten years and
he learned a lot about football through that role. And
(43:01):
I think Carly over the last probably twelve thirty fourteen,
fifteen years has had kind of a Souller education in
the sport. And what I think that allows her to
do is to operate an Antol franchise with certain guardrails
that come from her knowledge of football, which I think
is a big positive for an organization to have that
(43:24):
in ownership, you know, to again kind of set those
guardrails and lay the tracks from the vision for what
the organization is going to feel like without meddling or
you know, criticizing. I guess like unfairly certain aspects of
it that.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
That makes sense j J.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
One of the things that and I'm this is a reality, Okay,
I mean, I'm not going to be naive to realities. Okay,
there probably is a reality. I don't I don't think
amongst all, and I certainly don't think it's probably to
the number that it was, say thirty years ago. But
the reality is that there are those that are going
to say, like, well, you know, a female owner in sport.
(44:03):
I mean that alone is obviously somewhat unique, but a
female owner within the NFL, and then on top of that,
one that inherited the ownership just through familial tie as
opposed to you know, having a business empire elsewhere. Those
are two things that, albeit unfairly, are going to be
(44:26):
assumptions or stereotypes that are placed thereof from the outside.
Do you think that she is aware of that or
even you know what I mean, gets caught up in
that noise.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
I think, you know, sitting here as a man, I
would probably I would have to just guess that you
can't not be aware of it as a woman in
football circles, right, But she has done a very intentional
job of you know, belonging in those environments. And I mean, look'
(45:02):
to kind of your larger point about you know it
is you know, I would assume most ownership groups and
most principal owners are men. But a team right now
in the NFL that is viewed as a model franchise
and how they've built things is the Detroit Lions, whose
principal owner, Sheila Ford hamp is a woman who inherited
the team. So I don't think that is at all
(45:25):
a you know, I think some people might be biased,
but there is a direct example five hours to the
north of us of how a woman run franchise can
operate incredibly well and incredibly successfully. So, you know, and
that's not to say anything of you know, anything else
(45:48):
about the Lions or you know what with the cult situation,
but look, I mean, car Carly knows a lot about football,
she knows a lot about leadership, she knows a lot
about people, and those three things lend themselves very well
to the direction the franchise, an NFL franchise can take
under ownership, whether that owner is a man or a woman.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Do you get the impression jj jj Stekovic is our
guest Colts dot Com. We're talking about and we'll shift
into just a second from now, the fact that the
Colts training camp is getting underway. But Carli ers Gordon,
that is the lead story right now on the website,
and in talking to her or her sisters, you know,
any of the three of them, And I don't know
(46:29):
this answer. Clearly they grew up around football, But did
they did they grow up as big football fans or
is it something that you know, it was just more
the business aspect that was of interest to them.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
No, I mean, they are all very knowledgeable about football,
and the history of this organization means a great deal
to them.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
One of the things that did make the article was,
you know, Carly, Carly was talking about Dwight Spreeeney's Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Uh with this Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (47:00):
Induction weekend and the kind of you know party they
had there and she something she mentioned was, you know,
I wish you could just bottle up the vibe in
that room and you know, kind of present it because
she was like, no one in that room was talking about,
you know, how shiny.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
The trophy they all won was.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
They were all talking about what it took to get there,
and you know, look, another part of it was, I
think it was at the Super Bowl year where you know,
mister Ersay was very intentional about involving his daughters within
team events, within team things. When you know, back then,
I think Carly would have been in an early twenty
(47:39):
Casey would have been maybe late teams. Calyn would have
been a team I don't you know know off the
top of my head on that, but you know, they're
all very involved and I think they all very much
took after their dad in terms of not just being
you know, involved in the business side, but if our
if our family business is football, you know, we also
(48:00):
really like football. And I think you couldn't spend five
minutes talking to Carly without understanding she loves football. She
is a football junkie. She can get as deep in
the weeds as anyone when it comes to talk and ball,
and you know that that is really cool. She's a
very curious person when it comes to the sport and
(48:20):
because of that, she has learned a lot and really, uh,
you know, really enjoys the intricacies of the game. And
you know, the conversation she's had with you know, coaches
who have been in this building about how do you know,
how do you coach a cover two versus you know,
an inverted cover two? And certain you know, deep in
the weeds details like she has that because she wants
(48:42):
to learn and she definitely loves the sports.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
You know.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
One of the things I thought was interesting JJ in
your column is the quote and I'm not sure when
and where exactly she had said it, but when talking
about Anthony Richards, and maybe it was to you specifically,
but the quote where she basically said, and I'm paraphrasing,
you know, there is still time for him to to
learn everything that goes into being a starting quarterback in
(49:09):
the NFL. Is there a little bit of like a
desired motivation or push that comes with that quote?
Speaker 4 (49:16):
No, that I included that quote because it came at
the end of the section about you know, her kind
of talking about process and how you know, as an
owner you have to have a very a very broad
horizon to you know, look at things, and you know,
as part of that, she did say, you know that
there we still have time with Anthony, but competition is key,
(49:40):
and you know, nothing brings out the best and someone
like this, you know, having a sense of urgency, you know.
And I included that actually after she was talking about
you know, Grover Stewart and Nick Cross and their developmental
you know, curve, And I just think it was important
because that's what she said in the article. Is it
exactly how the Colts have operated this off season. It's
(50:03):
not like they they have thrown Anthony Richardson into the
number three spot or even the number two spot right
now in the quarterback depth chart. It's been we're bringing
in Daniel Jones to compete. We still believe in Anthony.
We think Daniel Jones has something he can bring to
this team. And at no point has Shane Styken or
Chris Ballard and said we've given up on Anthony Richardson
(50:25):
and Carl urthe Gordon Buttress bat by saying there's still
time everything that Chris Ballard and Shane Styken has said
this off season has been aligned with what she said
in the article. So I Drew, you know, I wanted
to put it in there because I thought it was
important for fans to hear what she had to say
about that situation. But it also came in the larger
(50:47):
context of having a process and you know, tolling that
fine line between being patient but not being too patient,
or you know, being reactionary but not being over reactionary,
you know, when it comes to issues with think organization.
So yeah, but again, Jake, it really was aligned with
everything else that we have heard from the coach and
(51:08):
the GM of the football team this offseason.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Jj, do we know you know, one of the favorite
things JJ Stankovic is our guest from Colts dot com
Colts Again, Rookies reporting today, Veterans tomorrow, and then practice
gets under a Wednesday ten o'clock in the morning from
ten until eleven. That same schedule Thursday and Friday, Friday
goes until eleven fifteen. You know, one of the things
(51:31):
I think that fans most enjoyed about training camp was,
in fact, the Jim Mersey access, the fact that he
was out there. He would you know fans could talk
to him. Also the fact that he would answer a
lot of questions to the media, you know, at some
point during camp and just kind of give almost like
a state of the Union type thing. Do we anticipate
that that continues?
Speaker 4 (51:52):
You know, I don't know that that that's you know,
probably above my pay grade here, but you know, I
do know like the press conference that currently ARTHSA Gordon
Casey Poyt and Kaylen Jackson had back in June. You know,
they they answered plenty of questions. I thought they all were,
you know, very impressive in that press conference. I don't
(52:15):
know what it will look like. And that's kind of
about all I can I can I can you know,
answer you on.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
That one, Jake JJ. In terms of the I guess
camp itself, the biggest storyline to you of intrigue, not
including the quarterback position would be.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
What okay, thank you, because I was like, if you
ask me the biggest storyline, you know you know what
it is.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Of course for me, I I'm really interested in.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
How the defense comes together. If you look at what
lou An Riumo had in Cincinnati when those defenses were
good back in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,
it was a lot of veterans, a lot of veterans
in the back end of that defense. You know, you
look at Von Bell and Jesse Bates at safety, Knobia
Wuzi a cornerbacks, and I think what you look at
what this Colts defense has in the back end are
(53:05):
a lot of veterans and a lot of guys who
I think it's the way lou Aroumo wants to play defense.
And that's not just Tarvarius Ward and Cambinen who came
in saf season very obviously targeted moves, but you know,
Kenny Moore has inside outside flexibility. You know, Nick Cross
really came on last year in a really impressive way.
(53:25):
I think there's some really interesting stuff that lou Aroumo
can do with those guys in the back end. And
then do we see more blitzes? You know, Louenarumo is
a guy who isn't you know, we're not talking about
Brian flora is here or you know, Link Martindale, but
a guy who is going to blitz more than Gus
Bradley did. And how do how do those blitzes look?
How does the personnel upfront. Look with being in more
(53:48):
dying situations where you've got six DB's on the field,
I just think there's a lot that I really can't
wait to unbox with that defense in camp, because I
do think they have a chance to be pretty good.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Night.
Speaker 4 (54:00):
We got to probably get the path trush to take
a step forward. I think that that kind of starts
with Layati Blotto taking a step forward.
Speaker 2 (54:07):
But defensively, man, there's gonna.
Speaker 4 (54:09):
Be some really interesting things that you know, I can't
wait to kind of track over the course of a
couple of weeks up a grand park.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
And again everything getting underway Wednesday at ten o'clock in
the morning. I assume JJ once again all of the
like the family fun events and the kid events and
everything else that is accessible just to the outside of
the camper as you walk in as all all back
there once again, right.
Speaker 4 (54:33):
It's back there. And I got to tell you can
find my kids at Blues trick Shot Zone where they
will be attempting to blues coming up with like a
new trick shot every day, you know, those like videos
that like blue and like Dude perfect to You can
find my kids there, and you might even find me
there if I need a little break from the eater
or something, will pop over there and try to do
(54:54):
a trick shot, which, by the way, when Blue had
that set up at our media day, I did hit
the trick shot. He had the little ping pong ball
pounds and only three tries.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
You know.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
The only weird thing about that is your kids are
twenty six and twenty two.
Speaker 4 (55:05):
Right, no, they are five years old, But as a
thirty six year old, I would happily spend some time there.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Let's go, right, yeah, why not?
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Right?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
All right? Everything getting underway Wednesday, it will be we
will be out there doing the show Wednesday, Thursday and
Friday again Colts dot com, where you can read not
just that story, but all the coverage as it relates
to Colts Camp. JJ appreciate it as always.
Speaker 4 (55:29):
Yeah, thanks for haarving me on, Jake appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
I appreciate it. JJ Stankovi. It's joining us from Colts
dot Com.
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