Best Of Query & Company - Tuesday 12/2/25 - Query & Company

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Stage is set. You just heard JAMV talking about it.
Indiana and Ohio State for the Big Ten Championship Lucas
Oil Stadium on Saturday night. It will be electric, especially
considering Indiana and Louisville and basketball Gamebridge Field House Saturday
afternoon and then the night cap is the big one
for all the marbles within the conference. And joining us

(00:20):
now in the Java House Peel and poor guest line.
Of course, you see him on the Big Ten Network
and they will have all kinds of coverage. We also
have fan Fest tickets for the Big Ten Championship to
give away. We will do that upcoming. But Dave Rebsen
joining me now, Dave, let's begin actually with this question
because I know you guys will be locked and loaded
the coverage from the Big Ten Network standpoint of all

(00:41):
of the happenings in Indianapolis. I'm sure our vast your
responsibilities will be what during the time that you're here, Hey.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Jack, Let's see, we're doing Big Tennis Today stuff from
down on the field on Fridays, so that is noon
Eastern time. Well, then I think head over to the
fan Fest and we're doing some hits from there which
will air on the show at night, the big show
on Friday night, and then Saturday we have an hour

(01:12):
long preview in the morning. I want to say that
that is at eleven o'clock Eastern I'm one hundred percent sure.
Maybe it's noon, and then we're on the air. We're
doing all the basketball halftimes from there. I believe we
have four basketball games during the course of the day
on Saturday, and so we'll be doing the halftimes from there,

(01:33):
and then we'll have some football content around that in
the fan Fest. So we've got you know, if you're
going to be at the FanFest on Saturday, we'll be
set up pretty much all day and people should come
on over and give it a listen that hour long show.
We'll have guests. And now while we're talking, I'll try
to get on my computer here and see if I
can figure out the time on that. But here we go. Yeah,

(01:56):
eleven o'clock Eastern time. We'll be on the air there
on Saturday.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
So Dave, let let's begin with this.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
This matchup is obviously fascinating between Ohio State and Indiana.
If you were to rank, okay, if between offense and
you know, Ohio State offense, Ohio State defense, Indiana offense,
Indiana defense. If you were to rank those one through four,
the unit rankings, they would rank what in terms of
this game going into it?

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Oh Man, I mean, I haven't thought of it in
those terms. It's interesting that you would ask. I think
I'd say, Ohio State defense, it's definitely the best unit.
I mean, I think you maybe have to argue that
Indiana's defense is the second best unit in this game.
You know, they's second in the nation in scoring defense.

(02:43):
I mean, they've been really good. They're so hard to
run the ball against. So I'd say that, you know,
both the defenses are probably the two best units in
the game. I don't know that we really know. I
know this sounds crazy because we're twelve games in, but
I thought it was pretty interesting thing that sig was
asked yesterday in his news conference, do you think Ohio

(03:05):
State may be holding some things back? And he said,
I think they might be on offense, like which was
a crazy idea to me. But like the more I
thought about it, the more I kind of thought, you know,
I wonder whether he is right. I do think Indiana's offense,
like what we've seen this year. I think Indiana's offense

(03:26):
is better than Ohio State's offense. Ohio State has the
best individual player in this game. Like, I just think
Jeremiah Smith is a different.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Way, agreed, I really do, David. I actually, and you
tell me if I'm wrong. Here, I told somebody Jeremiah Smith,
if he were to fall asleep and they were to
find him in Lucas Oil Stadium a week from Sunday,
he would be able to suit up and play in
an NFL game. I know he's not eligible to do so,
but his talent level is that. I mean, this is
an NFL receiver right now, right.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, no, he's He's really great. And again like the
Indiana receivers are amazing, so I you know, again, like
I think we're splitting hairs on this whole thing, Jake, like,
and I'm fascinated to see. You know, I don't know
if people have really talked about much, but the Angela
Pons was Jeremiah Smith's high school teammate. So like, the
Angela Pons is.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Covered jams and is a and is also a fabulous
player for Indiana, right, I mean he and cornerstones for.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Them incredible, So you know, he have a little bit
of a chif on his shoulder to go one on
one with him. I don't know. I mean it's certainly
an interesting storyline that again, I haven't seen people talk
about it a ton. Uh So I think we're splitting hairs.
Like again, I think Ohio States defense is as good

(04:46):
as any if seen, but Indiana's got like a national
championship level defense in any year.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
And then.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think Indiana's offense has shown us that to be
a little it better so far this year than Ohio
State's offense. But Ohio State may have the best individual player.
Does I think of the best individual player in the game.
I just I think it's really close. Like there's a
reason in their rank one and two in the country.
These are, in my opinion, the two best teams.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
You know it, David, feels to me Dave Repsen of
the Big Ten Network is my guest here on the
Java House Peel and poor guest line. It feels to
me like the only difference in twenty twenty five between
these two teams is the legacy you just and listen.
I went to Indiana, right, I grew up. I watched
Anthony Thompson I watched Steve Bradley, I watched Babe Lothenburg,

(05:38):
I watched Sam Whisch's teams, all of it.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
But but and having said that, it's still there's like
one little tenth of me that still is incredulous over
the fact that Indiana is the number two team in
the country and Ohio State feels like this behemoth. Right,
But yet they are kind of mirrors of one another,
are they not?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
They are? I mean, look, it's hard to ignore thirty
consecutive wins, right, I mean, you know, so at that
part of it. I mean I get why you would
think that way as an Indiana fan. I mean, we're
talking about this is the longest wind streak that any
program has had over any other program in the history

(06:25):
of the Big Ten. So I think as a as
an Indiana fan, you are conditioned to think that, no
matter how good you are, when you go up against
Ohio State, it's just not going to work out. And
last year I think kind of maybe reaffirm that. What's
interesting to me was kind of the notion that Indiana
said that they used what happened last year as a

(06:48):
tool to understand where they needed to get and that Signetti. Really,
you know, he's kind of from the get go. I
don't think he ever, like he hasn't ducked away from
the Ohio State game and after the Dinner Name game
last year saying we got to get better on the
line of scrimmage. These were we were beaten on the
line of scrimmage. They were just better. Both those teams

(07:08):
were just better than us there. And I think he
feeling I mean, they clearly are better on the offensive line,
but this will be a really good test. I mean, well,
we'll see. But again, like kind of to your original question, like,
I just think it's hard if you haven't done it.
I think it's hard for a fan not to look
at it and say, well, we just never beat those guys,

(07:31):
and no matter how good we are, they're always better
than us. I thought, like Adan Fisher, I thought put
it really well this week where he said, hey, we're
twelve and out for a reason, and you know, we
look at it as two great teams going head to head,
and I think that has to be the mentality and
if anyone can kind of get I don't think the
players have that same mentality that the fans have. I

(07:54):
really don't like, my sense is that Indiana looks at themselves,
they say, last year, we thought we're really good. We
went up against them, we realized we have some things
we need to work on, and now we've worked on them,
and now we're going to see how we match up.
But we have every belief that we're going to win.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Dave when Dave Repsen is my guest, when you you've
been around Kurt Signette, you guys have done obviously you
know preseason interviews and profiles and you know a number
of different aspects of it. And you mentioned last year,
you know there was and I get it. I mean
Kurt Signetti had to have and it's one of the
most remarkable stories in sports, the way he turned around

(08:31):
Indiana and he had to have that exuding confidence that
Kurt Signetti has and it has worked right. But he
caught some heat after the Ohio State and Notre Dame games,
just in terms of the bravada going into the game
and then the coaching in game, et cetera. Have you
seen any difference whatsoever in Kurt Signetti from last year

(08:53):
to this year.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
I mean, I think there's a little less bravado than
there was last year, I happened to like, you know,
we were I was sitting next to him when he
came down. Your guests came up the day of his
press conference and sat there and told Jerry and Nicole
and me, you know, we're going to be back there
next year. And I was so flabbergasted. We hadn't seen

(09:17):
the press offense, so because we're you know, we were
working all day, I really didn't know what this guy was. Like,
I still say, I asked literally the worst follow up
question I've ever asked in my career, where he said
we're going to be back there next year, and like
Nicole and Jerry looked at me and I'm like, you
want to go on record with that, and he's like, yeah,
I just did.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah right.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Like I was so flabbergasted, Jacob like.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Totally and in Indiana too, right, you know what I mean,
I get.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
It, and yeah, and then like and like, you know, look,
I've been friends with Jerry for twenty years, right, I mean,
because we there's our nineteenth season the Big ten Network,
eighteenth year, and then we worked together for two years
of ESPN before that, as you know, And so I
don't have the utmost respect for Jerry, you know, and
I mean like he took over Indiana. I think he
has fifty.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Five places speaking by the way of Jerry DeNardo for
those yeah, yeah, coach.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
So so when Jerry took over in Indiana, right, he's
got I think fifty five players on scholarship. He'd know
the exact number. I think he went through like three
athletic career. I think he says it's like three athletic directors,
four presidents, and six mission statements or something. I mean
it was a disaster, right, like the place which is disorganized.
They weren't ready to win. And I like, I think
the world of him, and I think in different circumstances

(10:36):
he could have been a really successful coach there. And
and so like you're sitting next to a guy who
has washed in your shoes and I don't even think that.
I don't even know sig knew that, but like I
was almost this sounds so weird. It was almost protective
of Jerry in that moment, Like do you know a
hard this job?

Speaker 3 (10:53):
In no no question?

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah, Like you know what you're getting into.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Your sitting next to someone who's lived it, right, And
it's crazy to think you know, i'd say, hey, horseshoess
in haggard A. It's like he was wrong, man, he
was off by a year. But it's crazy to think
that he basically got it right. Like in that moment,
I thought to myself, this has no idea how hard

(11:19):
this job is, and I'm not saying you can't do it. Look,
Tom Allen had him in the top ten, you know,
like Tom Allen had two pretty good years there and
then it just kind of fell apart. So I certainly
never think I don't think any jobs impossible. I think
you'd be good administrative support, good alignment. They certainly had
that in speaking with Scott Dolson kind of subsequent to

(11:40):
the hire. I think I understood the logic of it,
but I never in a million years would have thought
that this was going to end up where it is
as quickly as it's ended up there. And so yeah,
that bravado and all that caught me off guard. I've
kind of gone down this whole path here back to
your original question of how he has handled a little

(12:00):
differently this year. But I love that about Signetty, like
I love that he has a process that he believes
in that has proven to work over time, and he
doesn't care where he's doing it, Like, as long as
he has the proper support administratively, he believes it, he
can get it done. And the proofs in the pudding
he has gotten it done.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
David, I think, ye, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
I was gonna say, I think the thing that's so
impressive about him, and you tell me if this, if
you've kind of observed the same type thing. You could
take the third string long snapper on the Indiana football
roster and Kurt Signetti would tell you what size shoe
the guy wears and what way he prefers to tie them. Like,
he just seems to know his personnel and how they

(12:44):
respond to every situation from top to bottom as well
as anybody I've seen in coaching.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I would agree. And look, I think he is a
football junkie, and so I think that that goes to
a lot of different levels. I think part of it
is the psychological aspect and understanding his team and you know,
having kind of a process that he believes in that

(13:13):
he has kind of gone through trial and air with that,
He's learned from people that he's adapted people forget. You know,
everyone has the saving connection. But his dad was an
incredible coach, a Hall of Fame coach, and so he's
been around him. And his brother is a good coach,
and so like there's there's a lot like coaching. It's
just in his blood. But I'll tell you a story,

(13:33):
Jake that really, like to me, is indicative of who
Kurt Signette is. And this is something goes back to
Tom Allen. Like when we go and do our camp
visit at Indiana every year, we go up into the
coach's office before the practice that day, and Jeff Tagger's
the great sid there. I'm sure you know, you know,

(13:56):
Like they are bagels and we have coffee and we
sit and talk to the coach and we did it
with Tom, and we've done it with seg here these
last two years. And both times we've gone in was
sig We have interrupted him watching film, and both years
it has interestingly been well like what are you watching? Well,

(14:17):
I have cut up some high red zone from across
the country and I'm watching high red zone clips and
it's just really interesting to me, like that's what he got,
Like that's who he is. And he's not again, he's
not watching his team. He's watching like you know whatever
Arizona you know, plays from the twenty three yard line

(14:39):
or eighteen yard line or whatever it is, right high
red zone. I guess so, and he's just like wow, okay,
you know, like it was one thing when he went
in the first year, and then the second year is like, hey,
he's doing the exact same thing. Like he can't get
enough football. And whether it's to your point, his team
and his players, or whether it's just the game in general,

(15:01):
Like he's always looking for something different. He's always looking
for the edge, and I think that's part of what
makes him great. Like he lives, eats, breathes this stuff,
and maybe other coaches are the same way.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
I'm not suggesting that he watches more than anyone else
or breethes it, eats it, drinks it more than anyone else.
I'm just saying like there's just something about it that
I think he finds endless Will fascinating and it's helped
a lot.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
I think there are a lot of coaches that view film.
I think Kurt Signette watches film. Does that make sense? Yeah,
you know what I mean. I think he just from
what I'm told as well, you know, it's it's the
nuance of discovering things in it that go past most people.
Let me ask you this, what bagel are you getting?
Like when they when Jeff kg orders the bagels and
he's like, okay, rep said Big ten Network, which one

(15:52):
are you going with?

Speaker 2 (15:52):
You?

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Blueberry bagel? Everything bagels says to me, bagel, what are
you going with?

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, I'm more like sess to me or everything? Blueberry
bagels kind of like a bagel.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Okay, bagel fare up in eighty sixth Street though they
got a blueberry bege with a slab of cream cheese.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
That is heaven, buddy.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Let me tell you that's like watching the White Sox
in late October, the total heaven. You don't see it
very often, but tell okay, Dave. Last thing is the
Heisman Trophy on the line Saturday. Is the Heisman going
to go to one of these two quarterbacks? And is
it going to be the quarterback that that statistically outperforms
the other?

Speaker 2 (16:28):
That is my feeling. I mean, I'm a Heisman voter.
I consider my obligation and you know, I try to
do this kind of down the stretch. I'm in the
process of doing this of watching everyone who is in
the Heisman Trophy contention play and EVR games, watch them back,
and so I have a pretty good sense from you know,

(16:49):
kind of where I sit as to how that's going
to play out, you know, with my vote. And I
would say this game will go a long long way
toward determining how my vote goes. I think there are
some other players who are really worthy. Jereman my loves unbelievable.
I think Bobby is really good. I come around about him,

(17:09):
but I think, you know, from where I sit, these
two have been have been pretty.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
And how does it work?

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Do you literally just get a ballot and you write down,
say your top five or your top three? I mean
what obviously they come up with the finalists then, right
and they send it to you or how does it
all work?

Speaker 2 (17:26):
No, it's just your top three. You can vote for
anyone in the country. It's electronic. They did change it
this year, which is interesting. There used to be a
ten day voting window, which would have already begun. And
those of us who are you know, like who take
it really seriously? I mean, I think there's sponsibility very very.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Seriously, which is appreciate.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Who in the world would.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Vote now, right, right, Like you have to wait until
championship weekend to see every data point for every player,
so they change it this year you cannot vote.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I think it's open Sunday and Monday are It's basically
open for like forty eight hours, So you cannot go
before the championship weekend, which I think is a really
positive step because you shouldn't. I mean, if you're gonna
do this what I would perceive to be the right way,
you need to wait until you've been able to watch

(18:21):
every player at every possible situation.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Dave and the Big ten Network crew will all be
in Indianapolis with coverage beginning you said Friday, everything gets underway, right,
and then basically wall to wall Friday and Saturday, including
in the intermission of basketball games and all of it
to cover Indiana and Ohio State.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Right. Absolutely, you got it, Dave.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Safe travels down here by all means, and we look
forward to all of the coverage on the Big Ten
Network with Indiana and Ohio State. But I certainly appreciate
the time.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
I know you're busy as always, my friend, see you soon.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Appreciate it. Dave Revsen joining us on the Java House
Peel and Port guest line.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
This happens when more regularity than I care to admit. Okay, Eddie, premonition.
You hear it right there from Ricky. Who is this
Ricky Martin? Ricky Martin, thank you. Been like twenty five
years since I've heard the song. So I always have
this premonition. I always have this clarity of thought where

(19:19):
I think to myself, Okay, I would mention this on
the radio, but it is so incredibly obvious that there's
It would be ridiculous for me to talk about it
because I'm just It would be like me going on
the air and saying, hey, breaking news, Indianapolis is the
capital of Indiana. Well everybody knows that, right, there's no
point in.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
Me doing that.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
So and well, thank you.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
This just in courtA no longer the state capital. It's
now Indianapolis, by the way, where you're living. So with that, Eddie,
I will have something that comes to my mind and
I think to myself, it is very obvious. Then I'll
mention it to a couple of people and they will say,
that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You're the only
person that thinks that. And one of the difficulties of

(20:03):
my life is the fact that sometimes something that is
so incredibly obvious to me apparently is the opposite to
the rest of the civilized world. For example, here is
the opinion that I'm going to guess in our people's
court version here as you are Judge Wattner and Doug
Lewell in both, that you are going to rule against
me in this. Okay, okay, but hear me out. I'm worried.

(20:26):
This is my unpopular opinion. As I'm driving last night
to go to the Pacer game, I start to see
and you can tell this with the JW. Marriott when
they get the crews up there that are putting up
the big stickers.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
And everything else. Right, And then I'm driving down today
and I see on the JW. Marriott there is a huge,
like four to six story high sticker whatever you want
to call it, that says never Daunted, and it's the
Indiana football helmet. Okay, Indiana is playing in the Big
Ten Championship game on Saturday evening at Lucas Oil Stadium

(20:59):
in the shadows of the JW. Marriott. The JW.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Marriott has long now been the epicenter if you will,
of hospitality and of promotion and celebration of event in Indianapolis.
When the Indy five hundred is here in running, obviously
it's here every year the borg Warner Trophy goes up.
When the NCAA Final Four is here, they put the
entire bracket up on the JW.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Marriott.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
When any event comes to town, it is promoted on
the JW Marriott. Now Here is my unpopular opinion for you,
Eddie Garrison, in my question, what fundamentally is the problem
with a huge poster of Indiana football on the JW
Marriott Right now?

Speaker 6 (21:40):
I don't know what is it? You tell me?

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Okay? I hate Ohio State. I hate them.

Speaker 6 (21:49):
Right, just like everyone outside of Ohio.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
There is nothing more borish and obnoxious than the Ohio
State fan base.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
I hate them.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I love that they come here and spend all their money,
and I think they're people because the rest of the
year I actually am akin to them because I'm a
Reds fan and so too are a lot of them.
But when it comes to the way that they choose
their football team, they all air.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Now, having said that, the Big Ten Championship game, Indianapolis
has been selected as the host city of the Big
Ten Championship Game. As the host city of the Big
Ten Championship Game, that means that if you're going to
put something up on the JW Barriott, it needs to
be celebration and champion of the event itself, not with

(22:32):
a bias towards one team. And while I understand that
Indiana is the athletic program that is indigenous to the
state in which the JW Marriott sits, the reality is
that putting that up on the JW Marriott where mind you,
probably the majority of people staying there this weekend are
fans of, wait for it, Ohio State. But nonetheless, it

(22:54):
is the responsibility of whether it be the sports core
unless that was paid for by ind University. There needs
to be an objectivity and not a bias shown. Even
though we all assume that most people in Indianapolis and
for that matter, the civilized world are rooting for Indiana
to bet Ohio State, while we all assume that it

(23:16):
is the responsibility of the promotion of the event to
do so to celebrate the fact that the Big Ten
Championship Game is being housed in Indianapolis, and not to
show favoritism towards one team or the other, and I
think it's actually somewhat irresponsible to show a favoritism towards
one team. Now that maybe that the graphics incomplete and

(23:36):
have yet to put the Ohio State helmet up, and
then they're going to put a Big Ten trophy in
the middle of it. I don't know, but I think
they should celebrate and champion the fact that we are
hosting the event and that as the epicenter of hospitality,
that JW Marriott should show a welcome of all to
the championship event.

Speaker 6 (23:53):
I guess it all depends Jake on who's buying the space, Like,
is I you buy.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
If I'm buying it, I get that, But in any
other capacity, even if it's the JW, they should be
showing it as an equal fifty to fifty of celebrating
the fact that we are privileged as a city to
welcome all for the Big ten title.

Speaker 6 (24:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Now, Scott Agnes joins us on the Java House Peel
and poor guest line. Fieldhouse Files has coverage of the Pacers.
We'll let Scott, who just had to sit through that
entire soliloquy, opine and way in Scott, am I right
or wrong on this?

Speaker 7 (24:26):
I think you guys are hitting it completely right there,
as if it suggests to me that it's eye you purchase.
They've leaned into this never daunted theme over the last
couple of years, and so if they sought it out
and commissioned it, no big deal with that. But certainly
if it's something put on by the city or anything
like that, I don't think they would have done that.
They would have done something neutral.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Okay, that's and that's my thought because now it's different.
When the Pacers were in the NBA Finals, they put
up the Pacers graphic, but that's different because the Pacers
the NBA Finals were only in Indianapolis. Because of the Pacers,
it was not selected. So in other words, if Indianapolis
was the Super Bowl host city and the Colts happened

(25:08):
to be in it, I still would anticipate that it
would have the Lombardi on it, and then the Colts
helmet and the NFC helmet both both on there. You know,
you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 7 (25:16):
I guess it depends who's the highest bidder, right with
that space, because we've seen advertisements in terms of you know,
Gatorade putting Caitlin Clark up there, correct, Or when it
was Indy's All Star Game, they put Tyrese Haliburton up there,
but it was advertising how everyone could get involved with
All Star erect that.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Like when Caitlin Clark during the All Star Weekend for
the WNBA, Nike put her up there, but it said
from downtown in my hometown, like welcome all, you.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
It was like she was the ambassador and he was
the ambassador welcoming everyone, regardless of allegiance.

Speaker 7 (25:49):
I think the best example of this would be Taylor Swift.
I can't believe Taylor commissioned a a big portrait of
her on the side of the JW right that had
to be presumably downtown Indy or visit India to welcome
all the Indie fans, and so that was a neutral contributor.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, I mean, I.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Mean, I just I think that when you have Indianapolis
should push its chest out about the fact that it
has been selected for years now as the host city
regardless of who the opponent is. It just happens to
be fantastic that it's Indiana University. But maybe you're right,
I mean, if I you bought it themselves. That's different.

(26:27):
And if that's the case, then no issue, no problem,
all right, Scott, Let's get to last night at Gambridge
field House the Pacers in Cleveland. I I saw a
slow and late arriving crowd and I thought to myself,
maybe this crowd is not here because people have accepted
the fact that the Pacers this year are on the

(26:50):
struggle bus. But obviously it was weather impacted, because the
crowd then was pretty good. I think people have figured
out in our understanding patient to the fact of they're
struggling because everyone is hurt, right, But there are some
players that you look at, Scott and you say, Okay,

(27:10):
this is going to be a net positive in the
long run because this player's X and Y are getting
significant minutes that are then going to help them acclimate
once the Pacers are back full throttle. And then other
guys I call them empty calorie guys. There are some
guys that are empty calorie guys. You just need calories
and they're not providing you anything, but you just need

(27:31):
them because you're hungry.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
So that said, give me a player or two so
far this year that you look at and you say,
they're taking advantage of showing what they can do, and
they're going to be part of a rotation once everybody's healthy.

Speaker 7 (27:43):
Yeah, I would say as a whole, the first guy
that jumps out to me it was Jay Huff as
a reserve. I don't know if he's your starter full time,
but I think he's really now settled in Jake over
the last three weeks or so and showed exactly how
productive he can be in the minutes that he's given.
I mean, is block shot ability has been as good
or better than advertised. So he's the number one guy

(28:06):
I think of making a mark because I bet not
one Pacer fan had heard of him before he was
acquired here. The trouble is, the list isn't very long
right now. Jake, We've had moments. We've seen Isaiah Jackson.
There's been moments for Jaris Walker and Benedict Mathern. I
would say, as the whole, he's been very good. Obviously

(28:26):
last night a little bit of an off night, just
eleven points three of nine was not a big factor
in this. But overall, I mean, Mathern's been able to
be counted on for about twenty points per game. And
continues to grow within his game still on his rookie deal.
So I would also put him in that conversation.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
What is the contractual status, because I think they got
a hardship last year kids he was out. Where do
things stand contractually with Isaiah Jackson?

Speaker 7 (28:52):
Isaiah Jackson just came off his rookie deal last year.
It was the same situation. We should note as Benedict Mathern,
they not reach an agreement in the fall before the season,
and so he went into a contract year into the
detriment and Isaiah Jackson standpoint, he suffered that a torn achilles,
which obviously negatively impacts your value just because it's the

(29:14):
injury that it is. So the Pacers re signed him
this past offseason a three year deal worth twenty one million.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Okay I couldn't remember.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
So he is in for three years because Scott, I'll
be honest, and I like Isaiah Jackson a great deal.
But I have wanted to see more than I have
seen thus far. Am I too critical considering the injury?

Speaker 7 (29:38):
I would just say a little bit.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
No.

Speaker 7 (29:39):
I think he's obviously he's absolutely left want us all
wanting for more out there. But I also didn't expect
for him to be thrown into the starting lineup immediately
or be asked to play twenty five minutes in some circumstances.
And you know, last night I think was their fifth
game in seven days something like that. And so that's why,
for example, you a veteran like TJ McConnell held out.

(30:02):
They just according to Rick Carlisle postgame, he said, it's
no new injury. We just didn't feel like with all
these games that he looked sharp at the beginning of
the game, so we cut them off for the rest
of the game. Well now I'm factoring that. Okay, Isaiah
Jackson coming off the worst injury. All of us really
agree that you can have. Okay, we got to be
a little bit delicate with it, but also he's a
professional and paid at this level, so we should expect more.

(30:26):
But yeah, there's definitely a lot to be desired still.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Scott Agnes is our guest Joba House, Peel and Port
guest line where you hear him Field House Files, where
you can read his work and coverage. Scott, let's go
back to Jay huff I said earlier, and I want
your thought on this. Do you see Jay Huff as
somebody that is still auditioning to be a long term

(30:53):
starter for the Pacers, or is Jay Huff a guy
that is realistically in eighteen to twenty one minute off
bench solid piece once everybody's there guy.

Speaker 7 (31:06):
Sad part is I think it's both. Realistically, it's the latter.
It's played that eighteen minutes per game off the bench.
Being an energy guy. He's really showed some consistency from
beyond the arc. He plays in that respect in his
blocking like Miles Turner. So for fans it's probably a
comfort blanket. It's familiar in what they get from a center,
whereas Isaiah Jackson very different from that respect. But right

(31:28):
now they don't, in my opinion, have a starting caliber center,
no one playing at that level. Therefore, I think they're
all starting for that or trying for that long term
gig for this season.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
The the thing about Jay Huff, I agree with you,
and he is really in the last i don't know,
week or two, I think, become more active around the rim.
He just seems more comfortable in the flow of what
they want. But you tell me this, Scott, do you
feel that he has the same high post passing and

(32:00):
facilitating ability. That and I hate to compare everything to
Miles Turner, but that's what you're replacing, right. Does he
have the same facilitating nature that Miles Turner had.

Speaker 7 (32:10):
I'm not sure they asked Miles to do a lot
of that facilitating. There was certainly some picking pops a
lot where he was coming up to set the screen.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I think Turner would come up at the beginning of
a possession. Turner would you know. Obviously a lot of
times he was coming down, he was the last one
down because he was starting a break off of a
block or whatever else. But a lot of times he
would flash up, he'd get the ball on the high
post and then they would kind of start that weave,
if you will, And he was usually the first guy
that would kind of pop it out to one of

(32:40):
those two and then he flashes back down.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Right.

Speaker 7 (32:44):
He had a lot of movement. Yeah, from the top
of the ark. He would get it first, then switch
it to the other side, and then go move off
the ball.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
You're right, So do you feel that that Huff can
be that kind.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Of a guy?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
I do, Yeah, I think so. He's agile.

Speaker 7 (32:57):
I think you're right, he's gotten not only a lot
more comfortable and confident in the know how of this
system and what is being asked if him from Carlisle.
But I also think he's gotten his conditioning, and that
was such a big thing early on. Without that, you're
always playing ketchup and huffing and puffing out there. And
so now he's at the point where, yeah, I think
you can flow or facilitate if you will, because right

(33:18):
now they don't have that dominant guard or dominant guy
that they are playing through. They need to play through
Siakam as much as possible. But yeah, I think Jay
Huff can be utilized in many of the similar ways.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
I saw last night. Scott, were you down of the
game last night by chance?

Speaker 7 (33:36):
Still?

Speaker 4 (33:36):
No?

Speaker 3 (33:36):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (33:37):
There was a late in the game, mid fourth quarter,
I think, and I don't know if they if the
broadcast caught this or not, mather and missed a blockout
and Carlile called a timeout. I can't remember if he
called the timeout because of the miss blockout or if
it just so happened there was like an out of

(33:58):
ball or you know, maybe even called the time out.
But Rick Carlyle like got down almost like on a
stool across from Benedict Matheren to get in his grill
basically about the miss blockout and kind of gave the
riot act to the entire roster sitting there for the
for almost the totality of the time out, and everybody

(34:21):
responded fine, he didn't pull anybody out. They went back out.
It wasn't like some ugly situation, but it was a
unique situation. I don't know that I've seen Rick Carlyle
get that agitated in vociferus during a timeout during the
course of a game. Am I missing something or is
that out of character?

Speaker 2 (34:40):
No?

Speaker 7 (34:40):
I think that's on brand. How many times do we
see him call those quick timeouts like start of the
second score that, But then he usually it's short bursts
will and he kind of like the assistance then handle
it right like for him, what I'm saying is, yes,
usually he'll call the time out and then he goes
up high and like Jenny will come out and they'll
talk for a second, and Lloyd Pierce or somebody will
go and kind of handle things, and then he kind

(35:01):
of comes down and goes over what needs to be
done for him to call it, specifically to undress everybody.
He wasn't wrong, and I applaud it, but I just
to me that jumped out at me.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (35:13):
I think normally what he'll do, mostly for like an
individual blowing a coverage or something, he'll erupt on them, briefly,
make the point and then go right into the timeout,
like you said, and everybody these guys are smart enough
they know exactly where they just messed up and why
that timeout was called, and so it kind of goes
without saying there. But yeah, you're seeing a lot of
that coaching, a lot of that emotion I think come

(35:33):
out from all of them because there is no margin
for air right now for this team.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Do you think Pascal Siakam that game winner that he
hit Scott to see that bench erupt and you know,
basically cross the mid court stripe with him and everyone
around him, that to me looked like a roster that
was understanding of the the toll that things were taking

(36:01):
on Pascal Siakam because he's a guy that's used to
winning and now he's like the lone soldier out there
at no fault of anybody's because of the attrition. Do
you think that emotionally it is wearing on Pascal Siakam.

Speaker 7 (36:15):
I think absolutely, how could it not? And I think
it's weighing on all of them, but no one more
than him, given how much of a burden he's had
to shoulder, especially as is the running mate with Andrew
Nemhard missed a lot of time with injury, and so
they he was the one guy you could count on
for about twenty five minutes per game, even Matheren miss
time with that turf toe. He was the one stable

(36:36):
point that this team had, and for him to contribute
like he did, to play the big minutes like he
was playing. He was playing like thirty six minutes per
game back when more guys were out, and so yeah,
I think you just saw that pent up frustration and
just the team losing, be like, look, I finally got
some luck, we finally got a win, and it boiled

(36:58):
over to the point where you could how they talk
about his leadership being a big deal. I thought you
could see that here where they all just wanted to
celebrate him in so many different ways. I mean pouring
water on his head and taking his headband and those
things you don't do for a guy you don't like.
They love Pascal and the levels in which he's contributing
to this team on and off the court.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Scott, what's the latest on field House files and what
you're working on?

Speaker 7 (37:23):
Yeah, Lloyd Pierce is hosting a coat drive this afternoon
at three point thirty there at Horizon House. So looking
back at last year and looking ahead and hopefully a
big contributions to that, Scott.

Speaker 6 (37:34):
Did you go to the Noblesville Boom game on Saturday
to watch them take on the Wisconsin Herd.

Speaker 7 (37:39):
I did, and I'm actually yeah, I did. I saw
them get the win over the Herd. And more to that,
I had a long postgame conversation with Victor O Ladipo.
I was the only one there covering it and had
an opportunity to catch up with him, and he expanded
on so many different ways that he has changed, and
his simple message to Pacers fans is judge me for

(38:00):
who I am now, not what I was. I've changed
a ton since then. He expressed some remorse for a
lot of different things, and now he's just not ready
to call basketball quits just yet, and so that's why
he's staying after it.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Do you believe that in that conversation, And that's interesting, Scott,
that Oladipo would say that he was at the game
the night before, right, I mean, he was there kind
of incognito. Actually I looked over and I'm like, is
that Oladiepo over there? But do you think that, in fact,
he does regret just kind of the way things were

(38:33):
handled and the way that he left here.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
I do.

Speaker 7 (38:36):
I think how he handled the situation as.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
A whole, and I can't remember how it was the
exact situation. I pardon my ignorance and asking that. I
just know that he was injured. And then did he
ask for a trade? Is that what it was?

Speaker 7 (38:48):
It was one of those writings on the wall here
that I'm not kind of happy here and so you
should kind of move me. And eventually he made it
clear he wanted to get to Miami, and so they
dealt him in that deal, if I remember correctly, to Houston,
which brought back Karris LeVert in a four team trade.
And the biggest issue we found it was more so

(39:10):
the lead up and how everything was handled while he
was still here mostly since his injury, and he chose
the doctor and went to Miami and rehabbed away from
the team, and he didn't guess.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
What remember that during the playoffs, he the first they
played Boston in the playoffs, if I'm not mistaken, and
he missed he missed the first game, like missed his flight,
didn't make it back for the first game.

Speaker 7 (39:35):
There is weather delays on the tarmac and his playing
his private jet couldn't get out in time. That ain't
going yeah, and then uh, that delayed him if I
remember right, to a shoot around. And so he finally
saw the guys and met up shortly a couple hours
before the game, and they just wanted to focus on
the game. They just trying to get a win and
prevent a sweep here, and so that that was a

(39:56):
little messy. But the overriding theme I think in all
this is the doctor didn't do the surgery correct Jake,
and then that quad ten and ruptured again, and then
he changed agents two or three different times. To me,
it fundamentally comes down to what he wants, who he
trusts in the circle of trust that he allows around
or within him, and that that was bad for him

(40:20):
down the stretch and has led them down this path
where you know, he's had these injuries and now is
on the outside looking in for an NBA contract, but
I think he'll make it back. It's just he's got
to embrace this role of being that veteran like a
James Johnson who can contribute at times, but can he
lead in other ways and find out other ways to
contribute on a veteran minimum heat?

Speaker 3 (40:38):
And has he gained weight? He looked bigger. He looked
thicker to me.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
I'm not saying fat, and maybe it's muscle, but he
looked bigger to me.

Speaker 7 (40:45):
Maybe a little. I didn't notice anything substantial in that level.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Scott Agnesfield House files, Jaba House, Peel and Poor Guest line,
and you can read all about Oladipo and the rest
of it on the website.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Scott appreciate the time as always.

Speaker 7 (40:58):
Of course, thanks guys.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
Scott Agnes us.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
You know, I don't know if you know this and
not Eddie, but this song adequately describes my the three
favorite people on earth, so.

Speaker 6 (41:09):
He, myself and I am.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
I love me some me man, no question about that.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Joining us now in the Java House, Peel and Poor
Guest line from ESPN dot com.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Stephen Holder is our guest. Steven.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Let's begin with this kicker situation for the colts. We
were just discussing there apparently is one who is going
to be in the building at some point today. Do
we have any idea how many might be in or
where things stand.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
No, but but keep in mind they have likely been
kind of keeping tabs on the kicking market for the
last couple of months, you know, seeing how they lost
their kicker. They did do a workout with several kickers
earlier this year, so they have a pretty good feel
for what's out there and at least some options of

(41:59):
what's out out there. So I think they can probably
move pretty quickly. I thought they might have some I
thought they might have a workout yesterday, and I did
not see any visits listed for the folks on the
NFL transactions, so that didn't happen. So what I took
from that was they probably have an idea of what
they want to do, if that makes sense, So we

(42:21):
will see. But I fully expect some movement there, or
at least it seems likely at this point. Let's put
it that way.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Now, let's get to a couple of items from a
health standpoint, Steven, and we'll start with sauce gardener. I
have not heard any specific today. Yesterday we talked to
Ralph Reef and he wasn't speaking of Sauce Gardner's case specifically,
but rather in generalities and simply saying that Gardner in

(42:51):
the type of injury, if it is what we thought
it was going to be a cap strained that that's
probably a three week deal.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Where do things standard? Do we have any more information?

Speaker 4 (43:01):
No, we don't, but I think we can kind of
ballpark it based on what we do know, which is
we have some sense about the injury. The exact severity,
the exact diagnosis in particular we haven't gotten, but we can,
you know, just piece it together. The other thing that
we can, I think take some direction from is shame

(43:24):
Stikeen being very adamant that he does expect him to
play at some point before the end of the regular season.
There are five games left, so that that's not a
big window, and that they are not as of right now,
there are no plans to put them on injured reserve,
which is four games a minimum, So the three game window,

(43:47):
you know, is a ballpark guess I would say. The
other thing I can throw out there, I don't know
if their injuries are exactly the same, but Kenny Moore
earlier this year had what we thought was a achilles
tear initially, if you recall, he went down on the field,
also a non contact injury, and we feared the worst.

(44:08):
It turned out it was a strain and I don't
know if it was more of the same area as Gardner.
He said it's more in his cap rather than the achilles,
So I don't know. I didn't do the MRI, obviously,
but all I can tell you is that Kenny Moore
with something kind of sort of similar. He missed three

(44:29):
weeks and then was back, So hopefully that is a
good guy post for us.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
We played earlier Steven Stephen Holders my guest Jaba House
Peel and Port guest line. He's from ESPN dot com.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Shaverius Ward Mooney.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Ward, you know, obviously is a very good player and
has had the concussions, came back.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
He had a big play against Kansas City.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
But I think he's looked a little off and I
know that he had the personal tragic loss of his daughter.
And I believe that we just arked, you know the
I always hate to use the word anniversary because I
think of anniversary is a celebration, but you get my
point of that of that happening in his life. But
we played an audio clip from him where he was

(45:12):
saying that he just doesn't play as well when his
head is cloudy and his body is cloudy. And I
took that as him talking about because he was so
open and transparent of coming off of the concussion and
how close he was to thinking he would never play again.
Do we have reason to believe that that? And I

(45:35):
don't know if he was just somebody said, no, Jake,
he was talking about his daughter there. But I think
he's been so open about the fact that coming off
that concussion just really set him back a little bit.
Do we think he's even close to one hundred percent?

Speaker 4 (45:49):
So I think he's probably one hundred percent physically. I
think he was talking about his mindset. Of course, we're
all just interpreting, of course, right, But you are correct
the one year, you know, Mark, for lack of a
better word, of his daughter's passing, I believe it was just
a couple of weeks ago. He he had some really

(46:12):
I think, really I would say, sort of painful remarks
that he or I guess posts that he had on
Instagram around that time that I think spoke to his
state of mind, and it was not great. To be
completely honest, it was really hard to read some of
the things that he posted, and none of us can

(46:33):
even imagine unless we've been through that, right, So I
get it in terms of, like, I understand why he'd
why he would be so so real and so raw
and saying things like that publicly. So I in light
of all of that, I think he's just talking about that.
I think he's still processing what happened, and especially in

(46:55):
light of the time of year. I remember when he
signed his contract, he even said that going back to
San Francisco was not an option for him, and not
because of anything the forty nine ers did, not because
they're not a good team or an organization. He said,
there's just too much history there. I can't go back,
And and his daughter's mom was like his girlfriends, like,

(47:18):
I can't be back there. She she left, in fact
and went back home to Texas. If I'm not mistaken,
after the little girl passed away. So I just think
this is a young man who's just been through a lot,
and I hope that he's getting the help that he needs.
I don't know. I stay away from the topics from him,

(47:39):
because he has been clear that it's hard to talk about,
so I try not to go there, but I do
hope that he's that he's getting the help he needs because,
you know, having seen it happen in my own family,
I don't want to get like super off the topic here,
but like having seen family members go through that, you
never heal. There's no healing. It's just like you just
deal with it. You know, there's no I'll be better.

(48:02):
I'm going to get over it. You don't. You just don't.
You just get a little bit better and you cope.
So I just hope he's.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Doing okay from a health standpoint. Daniel Jones is the
other player that obviously we now know, and I thought
his mobility looked very compromised. Steven, has there been any
indication of I guess a two part question. Can this
from now to the end of the year and any

(48:31):
way get better? Is the first question, and the second
is would the Colts explore the possibility of getting him rest?

Speaker 4 (48:41):
So the first question in terms of it getting better,
all I can tell you is what they believe the Colts,
and that answer is yes, they believe there will be improvements.
And for whatever it's worth, Daniel Jones himself said that
in the Texans game he felt better than he did

(49:02):
in the Chiefs game. I'm with you. I do agree
he was compromised some And I have said this a
few times and people got to have and said, oh,
I think he did a good job and he's he's
fighting it out and toughing it out. Yes, that's true,
but we can also admit that like he's not one
hundred percent. They can't call all of the plays available

(49:25):
to them in the playbooks because some of them require
him to use his legs and they're not going to
do that right now. So they are compromised. There's no
question about that. And they're not going to admit it.
They're not going to talk about it, but they are.
It is a fact, and you can do with that
whatever you want. But that is true and there's nothing
to argue about. As for your second question, will they

(49:48):
consider sending him down? No, not unless something drastically changes.
There is absolutely zero, zero intent to play Riley Leonard.
And if they did, I think you would see you
would see a very very very basic approach to the

(50:09):
game plan and it would not be it would not
be one that would put you in position to win.
They're they're not they're not ready for him to play.
They don't think he's ready to play. Let's put it
that way.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Should they be going to a more basic offensive game
plan anyway of more featuring Jonathan Taylor, Well, I hear you.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
I think I think there's a there's some merit to that,
but there's a difference. Though there's a difference. I think
there's there's gonna be times when we talked about the
complexity of their offense and and all the things that
they want to do to attack defenses, which is what
led to Daniel Jones becoming the starter. So given all

(50:52):
of the I don't think you're going to be able
to have Riley Leonard come in there. Who who doesn't
have Frankly doesn't have the physical skill set that either
of the other two quarterbacks have. Anthony Richardson being the other.
He's not available, but I'm just throwing him in there.
Riley Leonard's physical skill set is it's far below I

(51:14):
believe either Daniel Jones or Anthony Richardson. So even though yes,
I hear your question, should they simplify the offense, Yes,
and no, you it's still the NFL, and you've got
to come out there with a full menu because defenses
are too good. Because if if they if you are
too predictable, you're dead. You're dead, sober, you're gonna lose.

(51:35):
You've got to have a menu that challenges defense and
keeps them on their toes and make unpredictable. So that's just.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Kind of where they are, Uh, Steven, what we talked
about this last week and then you know, even yesterday
and I didn't know this, Stephen.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Def con.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
You know, you always hear people say like, we're def
con for deaf Con three. Where so apparently the lower
the number, the more the the pucker factor. Okay, so
deaf Con one means that like there's a huge mushroom cloud,
and then deaf Con four means like, you know, we're
we're okay here, right, So the culture at what level
of death con?

Speaker 4 (52:15):
Well, Uh, I think the answer would be different. We
were talking about the state of the world, but that's
not the question.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Everything we're speaking, we're speaking in terms of the cold
season itself.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Yeah, yeah, everything's fine. Uh, I'd stay it's I think
def Con three. I ask me again on Monday. I
might have a different answer, but I think they have
an opportunity. I think it was it might have been
Mooney Ward who said this. I think he's right about this.

(52:50):
He said, everything we want to achieve is still in
front of us. He is right about that. Like they're
not going to be the number one seed in the AFC.
I don't anticipate. Excuse me, but but he's not wrong.
I mean, they can still control their own destiny, they
can still handle their business. The problem is they have

(53:11):
some challenges that are going to be difficult to deal with,
as as we already outline, and most of them has
to do an injury, and and that just is what
it is. But I do think if they win this game,
puts you at what nine and four, It takes a
little bit of the pressure off and lets you reset
a little bit, and and then you've just got to
finish decent. They don't have to win out or anything,

(53:34):
but they got to win. They got to win some.
They got to win two or three of these to
really be in position to win this division. So I
think it's stepcon three unless and until they lose this game,
or if they win this game, maybe it goes down
a little. You know.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
It's the curious thing here, I think partially Steven and
I'm guilty of this because the Colts got out to
the blazing start at seven and one, you know, and
just every literally every button they pushed was unlocking every door.
It was just fabulous. You kind of didn't pay a
lot of attention to what Houston and Jacksonville were doing. Houston, clearly,

(54:17):
you know, we just saw it. I mean, we know
what Houston is and defensively their outstanding. But Jacksonville has
won because the Colts have yet to see them, and
they got to go down there this weekend that I've
not paid as much attention to other than I keep
waiting for Trevor Lawrence to show me why he's Trevor Lawrence.
That said, what challenges does Jacksonville present and what is

(54:40):
Jacksonville doing that has now put themselves in this stick
along with Indianapolis.

Speaker 4 (54:46):
Well, I mean, for one, I would say their schedule
was not favorable early on, which is kind of the
opposite of what the Colts had going on. Right, So
sometimes you know, it is difficult to know what you're
looking at, you know, when you're when you're assessing teams
early in the season. It's not always that easy. And

(55:08):
I've always stressed this, like, don't make staff decisions after
a few weeks, you know, because you just don't know
what you're dealing with. So that's that's one thing. And
I'd also say, like their defense is definitely gonna get
a challenge. That that's real. I think that they they
have a quarterback who is capable. I don't I don't

(55:30):
think that Trevor Lawrence came up at night. But he's
also like a guy that if you if you make
mistakes on defense, like he'll beat you. You know, he'll
make the plays to beat you. That's just what it is,
you know. I just think they're they're also from everything
I can tell, And I'm like you, like I have
I paid a lot of attention to the Jaguars. No,

(55:51):
I mean because there didn't seem to be a good
reason to do that. But they do seem to have
more depth than they have had. They do seem to
be well coached this year. I got to give Liam
Cohen credit. I didn't know what to expect from him.
That that's underwhelming. Duval that he gave in his press conference,

(56:14):
he gave me bad vibes. I was like, I don't
know if I can take this guy seriously, but you know, look,
Nick Sirianni also had an awful opening he did.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Sirianni was like, they were ready to run him out
of town, right listen.

Speaker 4 (56:29):
I got calls from colleagues around the NFL after that
press conference like who is this crown? I was like, look,
I know I watched it. It was bad, but hear
me out, hear me out, and I actually I didn't
know if it would work, but I really liked Nick
and I really thought that that he had some kind
of some kind of magic to him. But anyhow, he's

(56:49):
he's got a Super Bowl. So despite where they are now,
you know that that tells you something. But anyhow, back
to the Jags and Liam Cohen, Yeah, I think they're
an interesting team because like, what's the one thing you
think about when you think about that team about going
to play the Jaguars. The answer is nothing, really.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Yeah, historically I always think that they and I'm going
way back right and just branding. Historically, Steven, I always
think of Jacksonville as being very defensively sound up front.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
Now that's not to say they are. Now that's just
what I you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
Yeah, yeah, but that's about it. I mean, you know,
they're just kind of they're just kind of, you know, solid,
That's that's what i'd say. And solid though, can get
you to eight and four, which is where they are.
But I don't think you fare the Jaguars in any respect,
which is kind of why it's impressive that they are
where they are. Yeah, I don't. I don't have a

(57:43):
lot for you. There's really not a lot there. Frankly,
They're just they're just kind of plucky and solid and
you better show up. It's all I can to tell you.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
You know.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
The when you look at the schedule remaining Steven Holder's
my guest. ESPN dot com is where you can read
his work, and of course he's on the job house
Peel and poor guest line. The schedule is there is
really no break here, Steven, you know, I mean, you're.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Not that there ever is in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
But if you look at it, you go to Jacksonville,
then you come back, and you got to go to Seattle,
which you kind of wait for Seattle.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
To come back down to Earth.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I don't think it's going to happen now, right, and
then the Niners Jacksonville again, and then you got to
finish in Houston. So there's just it seemingly when we
go back to Daniel Jones, I'm kind of fixed on
that if there's an area where they need to just
kind of take a game where they slow things down
a little bit for him, I just don't know where
it's going to be. I mean, they they this seems

(58:40):
very backloaded to me, But talk me off that ledge.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
No, I mean I can't. It is what it is.
I mean, you see the schedule. I see the schedule,
and I do think I will say early on, I
think we all knew that they were playing somewhat of
a light schedule, and I don't think we ever denied that.
But I also felt like, all right, they are so

(59:06):
good offensively that I kind of don't care who they play,
you know, like it didn't matter to me. The games
would get harder, clearly, and that that was a given.
But I still like them in terms of favoring them
because I think when you're beating bad teams by thirty
literally thirty points, you're better than just about every team

(59:29):
out there. Right, So this is the NFL. It's not college,
you know what I mean, No one should be beating
anybody by thirty points. So I thought, look, this is
a really good team. But I do think I don't.
I think it's a combination of things. It is the injuries,
it is the way defenses are attacking them right now.
They're really they're blitzing heavy, They're they're really attacking the runs.

(59:55):
It's not just sainings that ike and being stubborn about
running the football. Defense is no. You got a compromise
quarterback and you got the best running back in the NFL. Huh,
So you know it's not that hard, but they they
have to overcome it. Man, if you're good, you'll overcome it.
And and they've got to figure that out. But it
ain't gonna get easier. Losing Sauce hurts. You saw what

(01:00:16):
happened immediately on Sunday. Sauce goes down. They had a
plan and yeah, Sauce, you're on the you're on the
left side. Excuse me, you're on the right side. Mooney,
you're on the left and you guys just stay there.
So wherever Nico Collins is, you get a little bit
of a break when maybe you get the number three
or four receiver on your side, right well, Sauce goes down.

(01:00:38):
They said, mooney, you got the big guy, go get him.
And then he's on them all day long. That's a
long day, man, So you know, it just doesn't get easier,
and the taxing nature of that, it's just really tough
to deal with.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Stephen.

Speaker 8 (01:00:50):
What is it going to take or what is it about?
You know Makhai Blackman that lou Anirumo loves because I
watch him play and I'm like the guys getting beat
or they ran to his side on the Nico Collins
touchdown Ryan and he looked like a kid in like
Walmart or something when they lose track of their parents.
Their arms are out to the side and completely befuddled

(01:01:11):
on where they're supposed to be. And he's the guy
that's in the backfield right there with a chance to
either stop or slow down Woody Marks. And he looked
like he wanted to know business of doing that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
So when the Colts did for him, because remember that
was a trade in the I think right before the
start of the regular season, the Colts made that trade
with the Vikings and brought him here. I asked a
I asked a reporter in Minnesota for a scouting report.
The scouting report was as follows, He's not very good.

(01:01:45):
That was it, and that has proven to be true.
It's proven to be true. I hate to say it,
and I'm beating up on the guy, but I agree,
I wholeheartedly agree. I do not know why he's playing
over Dylan Jones, and I vehemently disagree. Now, bluan Umo
doesn't give a damn, But I'm just telling you if

(01:02:07):
he asked, that's what i'd tell him. I don't know,
and I just think Jalen Jones. I'm not saying that
he's Deonn Sanders in his prime, but I mean, just
look at the physical differences. Right. One guy that's undersized,
really undersized in Blackman. The other guy looks like he
was made in a lab where they make defensive backs.

(01:02:29):
So and the other guy has also started an entire
season and a half since he was drafted. I can't
say that for Makai Blackman. I can say either one
of those things. So it's very big to me. I'll
tell you this is a thing you tend to see
with Anna Rumo. Though this happened in Cincinnati as well,

(01:02:53):
which is he has some very strong preferences when it
comes to personnel, and it might just come down to, like,
I trust this guy to execute three or four coverages
that I like a lot, so I'm going to play him,
whereas the other guy's a better player. But maybe he
has he's basing his decision on one little aspect of

(01:03:15):
the situation and the rest of us might see it
a lot differently. But that's that's what he has done
in his.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
History, Steven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
I realize what the standings are, okay, but I want
you to tell me in your thought, in your gut
when you analyze top to bottom. And I know that
this is fluid over the course of a year, but
right now, to start December, tell me the four best
teams in the AFC.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
H all right, I put New England in there. I
don't think they're as good as eleven and two, Okay,
I think the records are will inflated, but you know, look,
it is what it is, right, eleven and two Patriots
Broncos I think because I I just think that much

(01:04:01):
of Sean Payton. I mean that's Tendon too anyway. But
I'm just saying, like I think Sean Payton is is
the real deal. Okay, beyond that, it gets murky. I say, hmm,
it really is tough. I mean I think I want
to put the Colts in there, but I don't. It

(01:04:23):
just doesn't feel like the trajectory is there. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Let me give you a couple of teams, and I
want you to tell me if you think the Colts
are better, same as or below?

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Right now? You ready?

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Yeah, the Chargers, and I don't know they beat them,
I get it, right, Chargers above.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
Such an underwhelming team, they're the.

Speaker 9 (01:04:43):
Same, okay, ravens uh, I would say, uh, same because
they have they both have lost.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
And then lastly the Buffalo Bills.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
Hmm, I like the Bills better. Just the quarterback is
just the quarterback, frankly, I mean, comparable running game and
much superior quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
I just feel like the AFC and that's why it's
wide open. It's wide open. Yeah, I mean, there's just this.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
And that's they have that going for them. So so
that is that's the beauty of this, right, Like you
want to play at home, so you want to win
the division. But at the same time, you know, like
if they Let's say, you know, Baltimore wins the AFC
North or something, and you got to go play Baltimore
on the road in the as a wildcard. This is
a totally hypothetical situation, right, but like, say you got

(01:05:46):
to go play Baltimore on the road as a wildcard.
I mean, okay, all right, bring it on, you know
what I mean. I mean, it's not the it's not
the scenario that you want. All I'm saying is I
think you make a great point. You know, New England's
probably getting that by unless the Broncos pulled out, so
you're gonna avoid them for a little bit. That first

(01:06:08):
round is gonna be a very winnable game no matter
who it is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
I feel like now, at the beginning of the year, Eddie,
we both had to pick the team that we thought
was going to be surprisingly good. You said, New England.
They're eleven and two. I said the Raiders. It looks
like you won that one, right, ye.

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
Wow. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
I last missed between Pete Carroll.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
I just I felt like the Raiders, you know, Rock
Bowers and I don't know, I thought the.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Raiders would be decent. That's a train wreck, right, it is.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Well, look, they missed on two things. They missed on
the quarterback on Gino, which no one necessarily predicted, but
they missed on the quarterback and they missed on the
offensive coordinator Trip Kelly. The stories that came out after
he got fired were hilarious that like he was calling
stuff that wasn't even on the place.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
She yeah, it took Bob stories right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
Gino Smith looking looking at the sideline, I'm like, what
the hell are you talking about? It's incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
How did that's the coordinator of the offense not know
the offense?

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
I don't know. I have no idea. He's like, we
didn't even talk about that play this week? Why are
you calling that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
That's incredible, incredible story. So you know, that's that's what
happens after people getting fired. You you finally learned the truth.
You know, maybe there's some exaggeration, but I choose to
believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
What's the latest that you're working on at ESPN dot com?

Speaker 4 (01:07:29):
So how did we get here? What happened to the Colts?
I think there's I highlighted five different things that I
think have have contributed to where they are, and one
I'll give you one real quick. We're probably coming up
on a break, but one of them is if you
go back early in the season on first downs, the

(01:07:51):
Colts were absolutely murdering people seven point two yards per
play on first down, which is the second highest in
the last fifteen years. Okay, that has fallen dramatically, and
that's how you end up in third and long all
day long and you go three for ten on third down.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
I was gonna say their third down efficiency on Sunday
was terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
Awful, awful. So look, the only team, by the way
I'm talking about through eight weeks, the only team in
the last fifteen years to have a better first down
performance is the twenty sixteen Falcons.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
Think about that, the twenty sixteen Falcons.

Speaker 4 (01:08:31):
Yep, that's the super Bowl team. Yep. That was twenty
eight to three.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Twenty eight to three, baby, twenty eight to three, back
when Matt Ryan was Matt Ryan, before he was Colts
Matt Ryan.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
And now, and that's what I hate to say this man.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
I thought Daniel Jones looked like Matt Ryan Colts mobility
on Sunday. But that's the Lenk I get it right,
And we got to say out there fair enough overcome that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
All right, Steven appreciate the time as

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Always, all right, you got it, all right, Steven Holder
joining us ESPN dot com

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