RIP Nancy Leonard. Kevin Pritchard, Mark Boyle, Mark Montieth, Bill Benner, Ralph Reiff, and Ted Karras join!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On a Wednesday, and on a Wednesday of a Colts
week typically a kind of a transitional day because we
go from talking about and breaking down what happened the
week before and moving into what may or may not
happen in the upcoming weekend as the Colts get set
for the Los Angeles Rams coming up this weekend, and

(00:21):
there is plenty to talk about with that, and certainly
normally we would be talking about the fact that Kenny Moore,
Shane Steichen saying earlier today that the calf injury that
was plaguing Kenny Moore now they have realized may in
fact be an Achilles focus and that certainly is not

(00:44):
promising when you hear that news. But and I don't
need to remind everyone in this town about the severity
of Achilles, But with Kenny Moore, they are assessing it.
They have not commented on, ruled out or ruled in
the possibility of an IR designation with Kenny Moore. Alec
Pierce with a concussion still in the protocol, and those

(01:07):
are storylines that we will monitor over the course of today. Obviously,
the fever last night a game in Las Vegas where
the Aces pretty much did what they wanted to do,
and that series now tied at a game a piece.
But we begin the show today and the vast majority
of the show today with a note of gratitude and

(01:30):
a city of gratitude. And admittedly, when it comes to
these sorts of situations and talking about the passing of
somebody that had the impact on this town that Nancy
Leonard did, I will admit to the fact that it
is always one of those where I'm not going to

(01:52):
say I don't trust myself, but you try your hardest
to make sure that you are properly addressing and paying
tribute and respect and a fashion that uplifts because in
this situation, with the passing of ninety three year old
Nancy Leonard and the announcement this morning from her family

(02:12):
that she has passed away, there is an obligation, in
my opinion, to celebrate, yes to mourn, but to celebrate
the life of Nancy Leonard and the impact of Nancy
Leonard and the gift that Nancy Leonard has given to
this city. And that's what I want to do today,

(02:34):
and I want to begin in doing so by simply
going back and telling a story and the reason why
I think it's an important story to tell, is because
I just mentioned the colts, I just mentioned the fever,
and the reality is this, there are countless numbers of

(02:55):
people or a countless number of people in the history
of this town that you can point towards and think
and say, we're pillars in building this city and the
fashion in which we know it today. It goes without
saying if you go all the way back and you

(03:15):
want to look at the Fortune family or Eli Lilly
in terms of the building of this town from a
business venture standpoint, if you want to go into the arts,
it goes without saying that you go back and you
think about, say James Wickham Riley from a poetry standpoint
and a heritage standpoint of what it means to be

(03:36):
a Hoosier and grow up and hearing about Little Orphanani
and all of those things. And if you are of
essentially my generation or younger, what you know of from
this town is that Indianapolis is a city, as I've
talked about on numerous occasions, that made a very distinct

(03:57):
decision years ago to build its foundation based on sports,
and that began before the Pan American Games, and that
began before the Final Fours started coming here with regularity
and before the NCAA moved here. And it began in

(04:17):
some part at a health class in the fall of
nineteen fifty in Bloomington, Indiana. And it was there in Bloomington, Indiana,
where a young somewhat awkward in the words that you
will hear naive basketball player from Terre Haute by the

(04:41):
name of Bob Leonard had yet to be known as slick.
But Bob Leonard was in Indiana to play basketball, and
he was sitting in the back of his class and
he saw this girl in his classroom and didn't know
at that time that she was from South Bend. Didn't
know at that time that you know, she had been

(05:02):
somebody with a more active social life. Only knew that
it was somebody that caught his eye, and he wanted
to make her attention, if you will, so Bob Leonard
simply put his foot out to try to trip her
to get her attention. It worked, and the two of

(05:23):
them ended up going on a few dates. And it
wasn't long after that that Bob Leonard immediately realized that
he was swept by Nancy and he was immediately in
love with Nancy and wanted to make sure that this
was more than just a freshman fling romance in Bloomington, Indiana.

(05:48):
This is Nancy Leonard talking about the initial meeting in
what would become one of the most powerful bonds in
this state's and cities history. Nancy Leonard on the early
meetings of Bob Leonard.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
It really was true that he had not dated in
high school, and a lot of that was because of
economic conditions.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
The clothes and things weren't there.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
And I had a really hard time believe in that
because I had, you know, one boyfriend after the other.
His idea of asking somebody to go with him after.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Two days, he looked at me and.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
He said, well will you And I said, well, what
do you mean? And he said, well, will you go
with me? And I said, oh, yeah, okay, and do
I have anything better to do? But I knew I
was in real trouble the third date when he started
talking about getting married, and I mean, I was really
in a panic. But it was the right thing, and

(06:48):
I really sincerely think that God put us together. I
was nerdy. I just studied all the time. We go
to the library and he pretend like he was studying.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Of course he wasn't.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Anyway, We got two four years that IU and the
lucky number was fifteen and got married on the fifteenth,
which was a Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
That Tuesday was June the fifteenth of nineteen fifty four.
And that was Nancy Leonard recalling those early days as
she spoke at the memorial and the celebration of life
of Bob Leonard Slick Leonard as we know him, who
preceded her in passing. During the time that she was
at Indiana, Nancy Leonard took business classes during the time

(07:35):
that Slick Leonard would ultimately not only help Indiana win
the nineteen fifty three National championship, but would go on
to play a professional career and then get into coaching
during that time Bob Leonard. Eventually Slick Leonard took a
job in Kocomo, Indiana, working for herf Jones, which of
course sells class rings and commemorative rings. But the business

(07:57):
acumen of Nancy Leonard began to show it so and
Slick knew it, and Slick saw it during the paperwork
that he would have to do for his job. She
was the one that was kind of I'm not going
to say, the brains behind all of it, but the
organization behind all of it. Not to say that she
didn't have brains I'm saying, I'm not saying that Slick
did not as well. But she was, by Slick Leonard's account,

(08:20):
absolutely the driving force behind the business aspect of all
things that Slick Leonard was involved with, which ultimately would
lead him to become, of course, the coach of the
ABA Indiana Pacers. And during that time when he was
the coach of the Indiana Pacers and then ultimately moved
into the front office of the Pacers, it was Nancy

(08:42):
Leonard who would become the assistant general manager from nineteen
seventy six to nineteen eighty and that meant the critical
time period in which the Pacers made the transition from
ABA franchise to NBA franchise. But that transition was not
one where the NBA was open necessarily just embracing the

(09:03):
San Antonio Spurs, the Nets, the Nuggets, and the Pacers
the four organizations making that transition. And Slick Leonard was
the first to tell you, as he does in the
clip that we're about to hear, that it was Nancy,
his wife, who in fact again was the driving force
behind a lot of the vision of the Indiana Pacers

(09:24):
and the acceptance by the NBA into the new league
for the team that was coming from the ABA.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
At that particular time, merger time ABA NBA, we were
in a financial situation where, you know, maybe they weren't
going to be able to pay a bunch of money out.
So Nancy and I we stepped forward and I said,
I'll coach the ball cop and Nancy can take all
the front office and all the dealings with the NBA

(09:54):
and everything. And she became very popular with the people
in the NBA. Fact, the one guy that hated me really.

Speaker 5 (10:03):
Liked Nancy, and that was our box.

Speaker 6 (10:05):
Yeah, and that funny.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah, she was the first general manager, and then at
a later time she became vice president of the whole
operation and general manager. So yeah, she was the first.
She was the first woman and did a wonderful job.
And I say that because the ball club was on
the brink, on the brink, we were totally out of money.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
On the brink. Indeed, because they played their first season
in the NBA in that nineteen seventy six nineteen seventy
seven season, and at that time yes there was interest
in the Pacers, and yes there were television broadcasts of
the Pacers, but they were still well short of the
money that was necessary and needed to survive and thrive

(10:54):
in the National Basketball Association. And it was Nancy Leonard
who who was the driving force behind so many things
that put the Pacers into the new stratosphere, if you would,
of what they needed to be in terms of their
recognition level. When the NBA decided that it wanted to
do a dunk contest, it was Nancy Leonard that went

(11:16):
to Darnelle Hillman and said, we're gonna have a dunk contest.
We're gonna put this together, and Darnell, you are going
to represent the Indiana Pacers. Even though he had been
traded by the time the dunk contest came around, he
still wore the colors of the Indiana Pacers. In the
dunk contest. It was Nancy Leonard who decided that perhaps
getting celebrities going door to door doing everything they could

(11:40):
to try to sell eight thousand additional season tickets after
that first season in which the Pacers had gone thirty
six and forty six. It was Nancy Leonard that knew
that the Indiana Pacers needed more. They needed to connect
with and cement with this town as an NBA franchise
and get people to buy in, even though people were

(12:00):
skeptical of how competitive they could be after finishing ten
games below five hundred and that initial season. So she
got together, along with Slick Leonard and members of the
Pacers organization with management at WTTV Channel four in July
of nineteen seventy seven, and beginning at ten o'clock at
night on July the third and running through until two
thirty on the afternoon of July the fourth, one year

(12:23):
after the Independence Day celebration of this country. It was,
for all intent and purposes, a celebration of what basketball
could be moving forward in this town. And with that
telethon that is now so famous, and they needed eight
thousand tickets, and they miscalculated the numbers a few times. Eventually,
an elated and emotional Nancy Leonard was able to make

(12:45):
the announcement to her husband, Bob Leonard, that they had
reached the magic number. And that's why it is important
today that we celebrate and we passed gratitude for Nancy Leonard,
because last night we had a women's basketball team playing

(13:08):
in this town and representing this town in Las Vegas
in the last four teams of the WNBA playoffs. We
have a Pacers run that was magical where Tyre's Halliburton
and Miles Turner made sure to pay tribute to the
woman that was sitting just behind their bench for each
and every game. And we have the Indianapolis Colts that

(13:28):
are getting set to go to Los Angeles coming up
on Sunday, a place where there was rumor at one
time that perhaps the franchise could go a place for
that matter, with the Rams that initially was traded with
Bob Ursay, as the Baltimore Colts and the Los Angeles
Rams would swap ownership and then ultimately Bob Ursay would

(13:48):
bring his franchise to Indianapolis. And the reason Bob Bursay
brought his franchise to Indianapolis, the reason the Indiana Fever
are here, is because of the initial vision that this
could be a big time sports town and the initial
vision and the backing not just of Slick Leonard, but
of the woman that was behind him driving from the

(14:09):
get go, Nancy Leonard, who in passing away leaves behind
a city that is far far better than that in
which she ever had that vision in nineteen seventy seven,
and at a time when a lot of people probably
thought that vision could not become reality. She was the
one with the business acumen. She was the one with
the vision, She was the one with the determination. And

(14:31):
Nancy Leonard is one of the biggest pillars of sports
in the history of this city and in business as well.
One of those who knew Nancy and was able to
see the cross breed not only from a sports standpoint,
but from the business standpoint as well. He is in
the Indiana Journalism Hall of Fame. He went on to become,
of course, a vice president for the Indiana Pacers. Bill Binner,

(14:53):
who also worked for the Indiana Sports Corps a number
of different capacities, saw the impact of Nancy Leonard. Joining
me on the show SHO today, Bill, let me begin
by saying my condolences to you, as I know that
Nancy Leonard was somebody that you were close to. But
I don't think that it is possible for us even
in the next three hours, next three weeks to talk

(15:14):
about the incredible impact she had on this city.

Speaker 7 (15:18):
Well, Jake, first of all. I'm honored that you would
you would have me on to talk about Nancy Uh,
the Leondard legacy. I always called her as our friendship
grew over the years. I always referred to as the
first Lady.

Speaker 5 (15:37):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (15:37):
And that was that was our little thing that we
had going between us. Because she was and I put
on a Facebook post she was, She's she's royalty, She's
Indiana Royalty.

Speaker 6 (15:51):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (15:52):
And everything you've just gone through in this history lesson
is so accurate and so found because without without that
Nancy's business acumen, without her being Slick's lifelong partner and
managing Slick, which took some took some doing from time

(16:16):
to time, without her influence on the Pacers and their
survival through the telephone, to the to the telethon, I
don't think it's too strong to say that Endianapolis might
not have evolved into the sports city that it is today.

(16:36):
And for all the things he just mentioned, the fever
of the Colts, the Pacers eventual success beginning with the
Donnie Walls Hears, but just our mere survival back in
nineteen seventy seven, I was I was the beat writer
back for the Pacers during the telethon days during their

(16:56):
transition to the NBA, and certainly I was aware of
the incredible financial difficulties that the franchise faced as it
transitioned into the NBA, and the impact of that telethon.
Had that night gone through, you could make the case, Jake,

(17:19):
as you just have so convincingly that our amateur sports movement,
our attraction of the Colts, our building of the Hoosier Dome,
or an eventual attraction of the n C A A,
and certainly the future of the Pacers, all of that
might not have taken place, or had it taken place,

(17:42):
it would have come at a much more as much
slower pace and perhaps scale. So you can trace it
all back to that. You know that that business clash
back back in Indiana years for the one nineteen fifty two,
it was just just a phenomenal couple. Uh, and she

(18:07):
was a phenomenal person. I got to say one more thing, Uh.
One of my best memories of Nancy, she was part
of they call it Murderer's Row and was her and
uh Paul Frensky's life and Jane Hammilgard's wife, Gena and

(18:29):
Gina and food they were on the food was the timer,
and Gene was on the scorer's table, and their whine
lives Fernski and Nevill and Himiergarden and Nancy Murderer's Row,
and they would they would hold nothing back during the
U to call out the officiating during the formative A

(18:53):
v A days. And so I remember them so family,
so fondly, and again Nancy and Slick and became fast
friends of ours purrently again just foundational aspects of the pieces,
franchise and everything that we are Indianapolis Indianapolis today. And so, Jake,

(19:15):
I so appreciate what you just did recalling the history
of Nancy's profound impact on on one is evolved.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
Bill, I think one of the things, Bill Benner is
my guest here, as we remember Nancy Leonard today, one
of the things I think, and I wanted to have
you on because you know, admittedly, Bill, a lot of
what I can opine share recall is going to be secondhand,
you know some of it. I mean, sure I met

(19:44):
Nancy Leonard, sure I knew her, but it would be
disingenuous to say that I had the relationship of say
yourself or Mark Boyle, who will be on later, or
Mark Monteith or you know Darnelle Hillman, for example, who
we may talk to later in the week. And I
certainly understand that a lot of people are grieving today
as well. But one of the aspects of it that
I wanted to to ask you about, or ask you

(20:05):
to expand upon, perhaps, and I mean this in the
most positive of ways, there was a level of endearment.
And you tell me if this is accurate. There was
a level of endearment about this fact, and that is
that you know, Slick Leonard grew into and became, of course,
this this gruff but loving character that was, you know,
just a huge figure within the game of basketball and

(20:28):
a larger than life personality in many many ways. But
to accomplish a lot of what he did was to
be kept in check. And there was one person that
he virtually and I'm going to say feared, for lack
of a better phrase, but that he made sure that
he always stayed in line with, and that he when

(20:48):
there were decisions to be made or things to be done,
that he always ran it past or basically checked off with,
and that was Nancy Leonard. She was the one person
that could not only usurp him, but also keep him
in line with things, and that combination became as powerful

(21:09):
a force as anything that we've seen from a business
standpoint in this town. Now, I want you to tell
me if that's inaccurate.

Speaker 7 (21:16):
That is absolutely one hundred percent correct. He both loved
Nancy to the absolute integree. There isn't all but off
fear there for for Slick.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (21:32):
You know, he would he would often have a few
beers postgame, and then Nancy would drive him home and
Slick would rant, especially if they've lost. He would he
would rant all the way home, and Nancy would absorb
that and she would direct him h and she would

(21:52):
calm him when she kun. But that that pairing, the
Leonard Parry, Uh, they both made each other so much
better in so many many ways. And that effect went
beyond their own relationship, to the relationship to the Paces,

(22:13):
to the relationship with the Paces, to the city, to
the relationship of basketball in the state of Indiana. I mean,
it had so many levels, and absolutely Jake Nancy was
core to keeping Slick being Slick the slick that he
had to be, the slick that he was, but also

(22:35):
also standing off those those rough edges learned they needed
to be standing off and sometimes they needed to be
grated off because that was that was Slick's uh, Slick's personality. Yeah,
he Slick fair no one, but he he did. He

(22:56):
did fair Nancy, and it was a it was a
good thing that he did because she she would keep
him in his place. And all the time she was
doing that, she was raising the family. She was raising
a wonderful, great, great family. As she was becoming friends
to so many and she was championing others. I'll give

(23:19):
you another female, great female later leader that Nancy Letter
helped create and create the platform with Sandy Napp, the
first president of the Indiana Sports Corporation. Sandy was working
for the Pacers and working alongslide Nancy and Nancy created
the avenue for Sandy Napp to become one of the

(23:42):
great leaders not only in Annapolis amlish sports, but in
American amateur sports. And a female for runner. And that's
again let's go back to Nancy was a female for runner.
She was assistant general manager running the entire business offe
operation of an NBA franchise. Well, that simply didn't happen.

(24:04):
That simply didn't happen. Back in nineteen seventy six. In
nineteen seventy seven, she was the one, and purposely she
kept herself in the background because it was never about Nancy.
It was always about the Pacers, the franchise and doing
whatever she could to help make that a better franchise.

(24:29):
And then in Slick's later years, you know, when he
became boil sidekick and did the radio on television work,
and Nancy was steadfast, steadfast as his number one supporter,
his number one fan in just a face of the franchise. Again,

(24:50):
I always, every time my last step with Pacers the
last seven seasons, I was always so honored to great
Slick and Nancy when they came down the home, parked
the car and gun out, and I would always give
her a hug and greet her as the first lady.
And she would always smile and only the way she could,

(25:11):
and give me a hug back and so old Bill,
You're just so You're just so nice to call me that.
And I said, Nancy, I call you that because it's true.
You're the first lady.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Bill. Let me ask you. Bill Benner is my guest
as we reflect on Nancy Leonard, who the announcement this
morning that she passed away at the age of ninety three. Bill,
in this town, you know, you are, like myself, native
to Indianapolis. You from the far south side at Center
Grove area, and you know your brother David obviously worked

(25:42):
at the newspaper, worked for the Pacers. You are rooted
in this town and if anybody has, you know the
the validity of your Hoosier root goes to the fact
that you've sat through twenty four and sixty five dreadful
Indiana football games to which you're finally being rewarded. But
when you think about the evolution of this city, one

(26:05):
of the things to me that is special, and it
truly is special. All of the sports properties here. You know,
the Indianapolis Motor Speedway pays tribute to its legends. The
Indianapolis Colts has the Ring of Honor in which you
know Jim Mersey has gone in, but so too the
players and the executives before that, you know that have

(26:26):
helped shape the last forty years of football here. And
the Pacers having Nancy Leonard sitting behind the bench at
every game, continuing to give her tickets, doing the same
for you know, Donnie Walsh, the all of the different
organizations in town have great respect and pay great respect

(26:50):
to their pillars. And so I'm curious in your opinion,
as somebody who grew up here, that generosity, that appreciation,
that respect. Is that because it's who we are as
a people, or is it because it's the people that
deem that respect from us.

Speaker 7 (27:09):
Boy, that's a that's a that's a great you know,
that's a great question, Jake, And I think I think
it it comes from our We have a certain humility
here and we've always had a I don't want to
call it, I don't want to use naptoun, but we've

(27:30):
always had a certain self awareness of who we are,
how we got there, and what we've become. And I hope, again,
as an old guy, I hope we never lose sight
of the fact of the people who had the vision
to buy into an ABA, created create an American Basketball Association,

(27:56):
and then create the flag Ship franchise of the American
Basketball Association, and that had the dumption to make the
financial considerations to advance that franchise into the National Basketball Association.
Are true, not discarding the Indianapolis Olympians, but our truly

(28:17):
first step into the realm of major professional sports. And
so we can't ever forget those colors, as you say,
and Nancy Leonard and Slick Leonard certainly among those pillars,
Dick Tinkham, Mike Storn, you can go back to those
who had the vision of the Indian Pacers, certainly Bob

(28:41):
Versay and Jim Irsay, Jim Morris and Ted Bohm and.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
That group who And you know, Bill, we'd be remiss
if we didn't mention as well the Schumacher family and
what they've done from downtown Indianapolis and Victory Field and
the Indianapolis Indians, which are a staple of who we are.
There are just so many right and and the Homean family.

Speaker 7 (29:03):
I mean again, it's all part of who we were,
who we are and what we've become.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
You know it.

Speaker 7 (29:13):
I've said this so many times to so many groups.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
We're one.

Speaker 7 (29:16):
We're one of the great Americans success success stories. Indianapolis,
the Indianapolis and I grew up indian No place remember
that down oh yeah, uh. And to see what we've
evolved into and reflected as the things you just mentioned,
the Indiana Fever, the Indianapolis cults, uh, the Indiana Pacers,

(29:38):
making that magical run to the seventh game of the
NBA Finals, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and the Indians being
one of the top deep not the top Triple I
franchises in all in baseball. I mean, all of these
things that we've seen are the results of those people

(30:00):
such as the Letards, such as the people we've mentioned,
who had the vision, the gumption to say, this is
not who we are, this is who we're going to be,
and we're going to get there. And I'm blessed to
have I'm so blessed to have lived through it, to

(30:22):
have written about it during my time at the Star,
and then to have participated in it during my time
in the second half of my career with the sports
corporate with Visit Indy and Horizon League and then Pacer
Sports Entertainment. I am so blessed to have had my
lifespan encompassed this city's lifespan as it evolved.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
And Nancy Leonard a huge part of that. The Simon
family and Pacer Sports and Entertainment have issued statement as well.
We will get to that just a couple of minutes
from now, but Bill, I certainly sincerely want to thank
you today for being able to come on what is again,
I know, a difficult day, but at the same time
and I see it as a day of celebration. It's
a day to celebrate who we are and what we are.

(31:08):
And Nancy Leonard was the best of all of us,
certainly from a vision standpoint of this town. And I
appreciate you being able to expand on that today.

Speaker 7 (31:19):
Well, thanks again, Jake. I'm honored that you would you
would you would have me on and again, Nancy was
such a beloved Nancy A Slick, we're such beloved friends
of sharing and I and you know, I'm heartbroken, but
I'm happy that she's she's there with Slick and my
brother and Jim Morris and her and mel Simon and

(31:40):
all those who who have played a role in the
in the pace of franchise. And again, it's a tough day,
but I'm happy for her in that respect.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Bill, I appreciate it. Be well, all right, we'll talk
to you soon, Thanks Jack, Bill Betner joining me on
the program again. As I mentioned, the Simon family and
Sports and Entertainment have issued a statement. We will get
you to that and then take a look back as well.
Last night on what did happen with the fever, and
we will keep you abreast on what's going on with
the Colts today as well. On this day when we

(32:15):
reflect upon one of the great great pillars in Indianapolis,
Nancy Leonard WI the Simon Family and Pacer Sports and
Entertainment with the following statement quote, we are heartbroken to
hear of Nancy Leonard's passing. Quite simply, we would not
be here without her. From the earliest days of the franchise,
Nancy poured her heart and soul into the team, not

(32:37):
just as the wife of Slick Leonard, but as a
female trailblazer who rallied the community when we needed it
the most, from organizing the now legendary telethon that helps
save the team to be in a constant presence Courtside
as a true super fan. Her passion for the organization
made her beloved by generations of players, alumni, and staff.
She will always be a part of the PACER's family

(32:59):
and her legacy you will continue to shape who we are.
We extend our heartfelt condolences to the Leonard family and
all who were touched by Nancy's remarkable life. Quote that
from the Simon Family and Pacers' Sports and Entertainment. I
do agree. By the way, this is a fabulous idea.
Somebody just passed along. Fabulous idea where you can always

(33:22):
text the show by the way at two three nine
ten seventy. For that matter, you can even text, and
you can do so to my personal phone as well.
But you can even text if you want to send
things for example like this one. Oh my gosh, I
can't tell you how many times I gave up on
Jake Q to say anything. I just changed the channel.

(33:45):
For the love of God, get rid of him. Please
fire the blowhard Jake dude makes no sense. Even if
you want to send that, that's cool. I'm cool with it.
But I love this idea that was also sent more rationally.
Might I add this from Chris Nancy should get a
banner in the field House with the number eighty twenty eight.
That's a great call because Slick Leonard already has the

(34:07):
banner with this number of wins. Of course, Mel Simon,
of course, as owner, has a banner Jim Morris as well,
who is one of the pioneers in town. Nancy Leonard,
it would be perfectly fitting to have her with the
banner and the number eighty twenty eight would be perfectly,
perfectly symbolic. There is news to get to about the
Colt Shane Steiken saying that earlier today involving Kenny Moore,

(34:31):
Mark Boyle going to join us coming up in about
twenty but will get you caught up on what Shane
Steiken had to say about the injury to the Colts Nickel.
We'll do it next. Yes, by the way, the Pacers
have a new point guard. They obviously Eddie. When you
look at the upcoming season, and we'll get you up

(34:52):
on to date on Kenny Moore here in just second.
When you look at the upcoming season, they know that
it is a This is such a a weird thing
to say, But I keep going back to Tyre's Halliburton,
who had a very touching tribute to Nancy Leonard as
well earlier today on social media, where he essentially talked
about we could read it to you here in a bit,

(35:13):
but he to paraphrase it, he said, you know, it
was so special before every game, knowing that like he
would get that wink or a hug. Miles Turner obviously
paid tribute to her as well, when they went to
the Eastern Conference or when they won the Eastern Conference.
But Tyre's Halliburton also pointing out that she was, you know,
essentially the matriarch of Indianapolis or for the organization itself.

(35:35):
But you keep forgetting at least I do. Maybe I'm
the only one. I mean, I know that it's I
don't forget that Halliburton's hurt. But but you know, you, oh,
that's right. You know they're going to have to reassign
those duties if you will, and Andrew Nimhart will slide over,
and then TJ Mcconnald's your backup point guard. But now
they get a veteran to fill that number three point

(35:58):
guard role.

Speaker 8 (35:59):
Eddie potentially Jake gets a non guarantee go through camp
right for Monty Morris. Yes, the other player that is
on a non guaranteed deal going into camp is Tony Bradley,
So kind of like Kendall Brown last year, and I
forget who he was going up against, But last year
the Pacers had two players on non guaranteed deals going

(36:20):
into camp. They played it out and then they made
a determination who against that final spot. So Monte Morris
and Tony Bradley, now competing for that finals spot for
the Pacers roster.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
By the way, Tyre's Halliburton on Nancy Leonard on the
expost twitter quote, the first lady of Indiana basketball. Before
every game, I knew I could count on a wink
and a smile behind the bench. There is no Pacers
basketball without Nancy Leonard. Can't wait to see the day
her name is in the rafters where it belongs, rip
to a legend and a beautiful soul. And then a
video of him hugging her again after the Eastern Conference

(36:54):
Finals win for the Pacers. Kenny Moore, we thought it
was a calf in Eddie And this is a position
that is of obvious for the Colts, and I think
they've done a good job to this point dealing with
some of the injuries and attrition in their defensive backfield.
But Kenny Moore now Shane Styke and clarifying It's kind

(37:17):
of like, and I hate to use this analogy, but
when you take your car in and you think it
might just be a simple problem with the battery and
then you find out you know, well, no, actually there
could be We've got to look at your alternator. This
could be, and we hope this is not the case.
I'm knocking on wood.

Speaker 9 (37:30):
You know a firsthand about that problem.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
You're not kidding. My car was in five weeks.

Speaker 9 (37:35):
They had it. It's like going through physical therapy, Jake.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
It was, it was, and it was one thing after
another right now. In the case of Kenny Moore though,
now Shane Stike and did give clarity, correct Eddie.

Speaker 8 (37:48):
Yeah, so he went. They did some further examination on
the quote unquote calf injury. They believed it to be
as you said, Jake, they now believe it's an achilles injury.
Injured reserve is not being discuss so that is an
encouraging sign. But you would still expect anymore to miss
a couple of weeks for the Indianapolis Colts.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, I just when you stay, and especially I don't
know Ralph Frief is going to join us coming up
at two o'clock hour, and we'll be able to specify.
I think a little bit more on what I'm about
to say, but I would assume I don't know this.
I'm not a doctor. I didn't even take a Sally
Struthers class. But I would assume I.

Speaker 9 (38:27):
Mean, for Pete's sake, You think we have four ankles, Yeah,
you're clearing not a doctor.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
We do have four ankles. No, But but the achilles,
I would think the range of motion or the way
that you have to move when you are spinning the
vast majority of your job running backwards as opposed to forward.
You know, Admittedly, I mean, obviously, I'm sure that muscle

(38:52):
strengthens itself based on that motion more than the average person,
et cetera. But I do wonder if that compromises it
more and puts him in more precarious position with that.
I maybe that's the dumbest thing anybody's ever said. I
don't know, But nonetheless that that is an area that
you know, it's kind of like the Pacers with Haliburton.

(39:13):
If Kenny Moore was not available or if he misses time,
then you got to move some people around a little bit,
because it's different than just putting somebody at you know,
when you're when you're getting into the nickel and you know,
et cetera, you start getting into areas there that you
got to get creative. But they've done a good job
so far with it. But the Rams are a team,
you know, Stafford likes to air it out, no question

(39:33):
about that.

Speaker 8 (39:33):
Sixty eight percent of his past attempts are going to
either Puka Nakua or Devonte Adams. So when he drives
back to pass, you know, pretty much seven out of
ten passes are going to go to one of those
six point eight I know, rounding up, Jake, pretty much,
you can't have six point eight percent of it?

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Do you do the round up thing when you when
and that's the big thing now when you go anywhere
and you use your card and then it's like, would
you like to round up for you know, charity or whatever?

Speaker 9 (39:57):
Do you do you do the round up? It depends
most of the time.

Speaker 6 (40:00):
I do.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I mean I you know what. A lot of times
the clerk will just automatically decline it for you and
you're like, well, no, I was it was eight cents.
I'm fine with that, you know.

Speaker 9 (40:11):
I want to help the Rally Children's Hospital or something. Yeah,
it's usually that or like Ronald McDonald house or something.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Like an animal shelter or something like that. You know,
I'm cool with it. The other thing, By the way,
Colts News Jonathan Taylor has been named the AFC Offensive
Player of the week. No big surprise there, and they
may need it. You know, Taylor may be big as
he is anyway, it goes without saying when you look

(40:38):
at their offense, but especially against the Rams, and I
know Stafford is not this is not the Matt Stafford
of five years ago, but I still think that you,
especially when you're on the road, if they find themselves
in position with the lead late, you know, you want
to kind of keep the ball out of his hands
because he is a guy that you get him in rhythm,
he can get go on a little bit.

Speaker 8 (40:57):
There should be a really good test for the Colts
offensive line. The Rams have one of the best front
sevens in the National Football League. They've got Jared Versus
on the end, and they've got a bunch of different
young guys that they rotate in and out of there
that can you know, create havoc.

Speaker 9 (41:10):
They did a really good.

Speaker 8 (41:11):
Job last week at limiting Saquon Barkley and it's ultimately
additionally the being down by you know, sixteen nineteen points
or whatever it was, but Philly to abandon the run
and go to the pass a little bit more. Their
secondary is very suspect and it is arguably one of
the worst secondaries in the league. That's why they're still
reliant on those guys up front getting after the quarterback.

(41:32):
So if the offensive line can hold up Daniel Jones,
if he has time to pass, he should be able
to shred the defense again.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Last night, Eddie, what time did you get out of here?
Because you had to do the postgame show of course
for the Fever broadcast. They were getting underway late last
night in Las Vegas and midnight thirty. They went two
different runs I thought last night. You know, they at
one point, I think they had an eleven to nothing
run at one point in the first half. But the
problem is they just they dug themselves twice too big

(42:00):
a hole. And you see that sometimes where teams get
down and then you exert so much energy to get
yourself back in that it just it maintains that way
and that becomes difficult, right.

Speaker 8 (42:12):
Yeah, they just struggled taking care of the basketball. Jake
twenty two or two overs last night. That was a
season high for any game. It was encouraging to see
Lexi Hill go five of eleven on three pointers, tied
to franchise record, and she was questionable playing into it
right Yeah, that's another thing too that you could tell
during the course of that game she was kind of
laboring when she was getting up off the floor when
she was getting knocked down with the back issue. It

(42:34):
was a late addition. Stephanie White even said that they
had to wait to see how she felt going through
pregamable warm ups before making a determination if she was
even going to be available. She was available in a very,
very physical game, and I know both coaches had, you know,
comments after the game last night about just how the
officiating needs to kind of get it in check in
terms of the physicality. Becky Hammond went as far to

(42:57):
say that if some of the stuff that was happening
in the WNBA that's happening in the stuff that was
happening in the WNBA happened in the NBA, it would
totally spark a fight or something on the court. So
there's kind of you get it in check a little bit,
and hopefully that can be discussed over the course of
the summer on the off season during CBA negotiations.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
So series tied at the game apiece. It is the
best of five, so still home court advantage for the Fever.
We come back he is the voice of the Indiana Pacers.
He worked alongside Slick Leonard, of course, which means that
I'm sure a tough day for Mark Boyle, but he's
going to join us to reflect on celebrate Nancy Leonard.
He's going to do it next. What I want to

(43:39):
revisit what I mentioned off the top of the show,
and that is that if you look right now at
you know, Indianapolis Sports, Colt's getting set at three to
zero to take on the Rams in Los Angeles on Sunday.
The Fever, as we just talked about, now tied at
a game apiece in the WNBA Playoffs with Vegas. The

(44:08):
the overall, you know, the NCAA is getting set to
have its basketball championships at each level Division one, Division two,
you know, each division here in Indianapolis coming up in March,
and so much of the foundation of this town. And
I know that we talk about the significance of the
Speedway and the Colts, and you know, obviously the Pacers,

(44:32):
and when you look at the Pacers aspect of it,
the from a professional standpoint, this is a city that
in the early to mid eighties made a very strong
decision to center itself around sports and first be the
amateur sports capital of the world, and then transition itself
into the building of the Convention Center and the expansion

(44:55):
into the Hoosier Dome and trying to recruit the NFL
to come here. It is my opinion, I'm not saying fact,
but it is my opinion that none of those things
get the footing and get the launch that they did
without the already existing Indiana Pacers and Association in basketball
with the top league in the NBA. And while yes,

(45:18):
we talk about the telethon and the fact that they
needed to sell eight thousand tickets, and Nancy Leonard was
such the spearhead behind that and the one that basically
went in after they had been thirty six and forty
six in their first year in the NBA, And it
was Nancy Leonard that went in and said, look, we've
got to change some things around here. We've got to
become we've got to get down to the brass tacks

(45:39):
and slick Leonard was such an important aspect in figure
and character to some extent within this town. But it
was Nancy Leonard that was behind him driving so much
of that in giving him business acumen and belief and
and you know, being the spearhead for the vision that

(46:00):
this could not just be a successful NBA town, but
then as a result of that, become a successful, big
time sports town. And of course, Slick Leonard went beyond
being a coach. He went into broadcasting. He was the
broadcast partner of our next guest, who is the radio
voice of the Indiana Pacers, Mark Boyle, joining me on

(46:20):
the program. And Mark, I will bring you on with
the same thing that I had said to Bill Benner,
and that is that I do offer condolences because it
would be my assumption that Nancy Leonard was someone who
was very on a personal level special and close to you.
But I also appreciate your time today in being able
to reflect upon and champion her.

Speaker 6 (46:41):
I appreciate that. And having heard your comments before I
came on, I will say this. You don't need me
to be your guest. You've already said it perfectly. Downtown
would not be again, in my opinion, would not be
what it is. Would the Colts be here? Maybe yes?
Maybe know when I'm here for the eighty eight eighty
nine season, there was a big giant hole in the

(47:01):
ground where the mall is now downtown was dead. One
of the differences. And this is just a microcosm back
in the day when I came into the NBA. The
guys that came in from the other teams in Indianapolis
really now they look forward to coming. There's stuff to do,
there's interesting venues, be at restaurants, be at bars, be

(47:23):
it whatever you like. And it's one of the more
particularly for a town this size, it's one of the
more vibrant towns in the entire league. Guys like coming
here now. And I would never be even with my
own bias, I would never be so bold as to
say that's because of Slick and Nancy, but there's certainly
key figures in that whole transition.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Well, and I want to go back to in Bill
and I talked about this mark, but I think you
would be You could offer a very unique perspective here,
almost perhaps one that is isolated to just you. And
that is in terms of from the business aspect of it.
In seeing you know Slick as the broadcaster and as
the your partner for so many years on the radio,

(48:03):
the significance of Nancy Leonard being behind him as a
stabilizing but also driving force into each area and aspect
with which he ventured in his professional career. I would
hope that people are aware of that, but I don't
think that we can overstate her impact on Slick and

(48:26):
the way that he admired, looked up to, and loved her.
And I was hoping that you could expand upon that.

Speaker 6 (48:34):
Well. It is technically accurate to say that Nancy was
Slick's wife and then Slick was Nancy's husband, both true statements,
but only to scratch the service of the entire equation.
They were partners in where Slick was not necessarily strong
Nancy was. To say that she was the driving force

(48:55):
behind Slick, I think would be a little bit not
insulting and be a little bit too dismissive of Slick.
He was a strong person on his own and a
vibrant personality and a big factor in what he did
and the people he influenced. But there's no question Nancy
was his partner, his equal, and they were a great team.

(49:16):
They were together for over sixty years and they were
such a perfect fit. Two great people who welcomed everybody
into their orbit, and they didn't have to, but they did.
They cared not just about each other and their family,
and not just about the Pacers either. They cared about
the city, they cared about the state, and they were

(49:38):
influentd in so many ways. I don't know that you
could actually quantify the difference they made or even make
an all encompassing statement, but I think on a general level,
it's safe to say that they were a great partnership
and two really wonderful people whose impact will never ever
be forgotten.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Of course, that partnership began, as I mentioned earlier in
nineteen fifty, in the fall of nineteen fifty at Indiana University,
when Bob Leonard as he was known then obviously the
promising basketball star from Terre Haute, and then Nancy being
from South Bend, and they met in I believe it
was a health class when they began dating, and then

(50:16):
the relationship, as Mark ha just mentioned, went on for
you know, sixty years beyond that the aspect, Mark, and
I guess the unique factor of Nancy and I know
that this was before your time here, but Nancy Leonard
being a basketball executive in the early NBA years, in

(50:38):
particular for the Pacers from nineteen seventy six to nineteen
eighty by definition the assistant general manager. But you know,
being there and involved in it, there had to be
a strength there, did there not, just based on the
fact that it was not necessarily at that time common
to see a woman in an executive role. But yet,

(50:59):
while well I was not around, it is my understanding
that she had instant respect from those that worked around her.
Is that also your understanding?

Speaker 6 (51:07):
It's my understanding. But like you, I wasn't here then,
but I ansay this. She was in the front office
of a professional basketball team at a time when the
only women around professionals were in the stands. Right now
we have women in the front office, we have women coaching,
as it should have been forever. But progress is slow.

(51:28):
But she was a pioneer, and I can't even begin
to imagine how difficult it must have been to be
the only woman. First of all, men I think probably
looked down on her, which made her job more difficult.
And that was in the days of sports. NBA included
their corporations. Now we have several hundred people, for example,

(51:50):
looking for the pacers. But back in those days, the
front office was three or four people and they had.

Speaker 5 (51:55):
To do everything.

Speaker 6 (51:56):
Now there wasn't some of the influence that we have now.
There was no digit marketing was essentially non existent. It
was just trying to get sponsors and ticket holders. That
doesn't diminish what she did, especially as the first female
she assumed such a position. But there's one example of
the influence that she had and that Slick had, because
Slick was the one that put her into the front office.

(52:19):
And it's I guess it's stuck there from the public perception,
but it's so much more significant and so deeper than
that that it's you know, we could talk about it
for hours and still only scratch the surface.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Mark. In terms of Nancy Leonard, Mark Boyles, my guest,
the radio play by play voice of course at the
Indiana Pacers, Nancy Leonard, the news coming this morning from
the Leonard family that she passed away at the age
of ninety three. In terms of this, you know, this
past spring and summer and the run that the Pacers had,
and you know, it was special to see Miles Turner

(52:52):
go down and immediately hug Nancy Leonard when they won
the Eastern Conference and Tyrese Haliburton today paying tribute on
social media and posting a video of him embracing her
as well.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
What was the.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Actual, I guess, timeline of how when a player would
come to Indiana, how it would come to be that
they would become aware of Nancy Leonard. Was it just
the fact that she was at every game and it's
kind of inevitable that you understand who that is or
was she introduced to different players as they came along.
Are you aware of perhaps just how those relationships formed.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
Well, they were formed differently over the court time. Now,
when I came, Slick was doing television and then he
started doing radio with me.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
The point is, though, that he.

Speaker 6 (53:40):
Was around all time, he traveled with us. He got
to know the players who considered him.

Speaker 5 (53:45):
As a father or a grandfather, and at.

Speaker 6 (53:48):
Various events they meet nance It's different now Slick is passed.
We have players on this team whenever met Slick, and
I wouldn't be surprised if we have players on the
team who don't know who Nancy is. That's just generational.
But the way it started was Slick was far more
intimately involved as a broadcaster, and he knew everybody, all
the players, all the coaches. I still smile when I

(54:09):
think about some of the cards on the plane where
he'd be the oldest guy there, and he was like
taking their money like they were ATMs and chucked Paul
Socket and he took their money. But they still loved him.
He was just that kind of guy. He warm and
welcome to everyone, and Nancy the same, although on a

(54:30):
lower profile level as far as the.

Speaker 5 (54:31):
Players are concerned.

Speaker 6 (54:34):
But you saw it with Tyrese and Miles, if to
use an example, in the playoffs, the current roster of
guys that did know her obviously accepted her as part
of a family, and that's something when she's in their
nineties and they're in their twenties.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
By the way, it was card games on an airplane.
How Slick got his name right.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
Yes, and there's a bit of a misnomer about that.
My impression is the common wisdom is that the nickname
Slick was even to him by hot Rod Huntley, who
was his roommate with the Lakers and then went on
to be a broadcaster for the Lakers and the Jazz.
But Slick told me that that name was given to
him by George Micen. I think he was the coach

(55:13):
of the Lakers at the time when Slick was playing
and they weren't a card game, and according to Slick,
George said, man, you're just too slick for me, and
it stuck. So I'll bet you there's a whole bunch
of people that when we say Bobby Leonard, they don't
even know who that is.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah, No, o're right, yeah, correct? And you know you
are correct, Mark, in the fact that the variation or
the alternate version of that story is that he was
playing a card game and that hot Rod Huntley was
the one that warned somebody like, hey, don't don't don't
get too playing too far with that guy because he's
too slick, you know. So I but listen, you'd have

(55:51):
to go with if Slick says it's Mike and then
it's mikeen right, I mean, that's the version you got
to go with. If that Slicks variation of it, right.

Speaker 6 (55:58):
If Slick said God gave him the nickname, I'm buying that.
What tells me something that.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
It fair enough? Right? So Mark Boyle is our guest.
We're talking about Nancy Leonard and her impact on not
you know, the Pacers obviously, and and Mark, you began
doing radio with Slick in what year?

Speaker 6 (56:21):
Well, I worked with Clarik Kellogg my first year, and
then I worked solo for seven years that they would
always give me a guy in the playoffs.

Speaker 5 (56:29):
So I had Billy Keller, I.

Speaker 6 (56:30):
Had George McGinnis, I had Ceasting, I had Slick one time,
and then the first time the Pacers made a playoff
run was ninety three ninety four. Slick was my guy.
I'd worked solo the whole season. He was my playoff guy,
and the Pacers made a long run and they decided
they liked Sounded, and then he was my guy. Although

(56:52):
at the end he mostly either did it remotely or
just home games as his health started to sail. But
we were together in some way shape of for almost
thirty years.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
And during that time. In those thirty years, you know,
obviously Nancy Leonard was coming to the games and was
you know, for the better part of assuming that her
health would be good. She was ubiquitous down at games beforehand,
and those sorts of things. What did your personal relationship become,
not just with Slick but also with Nancy as well,

(57:25):
because you mentioned you know, they were partners. How did
they I guess impact you.

Speaker 6 (57:32):
Well, this isn't the whole story. But I'll give you
a story that illustrates the relationship.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
When I came here.

Speaker 6 (57:39):
I've been here for thirty seven years. But when I
came here and I was working my way to this
point in my career, I had seven jobs my first
nine years. Now each one was better, But I was
very trancy, so I signed on for two years. I
figured I'd stay and then move on to something else.
And from the day I met Slick, you always used
to tell me you got to own the ground and

(58:00):
you live on. Well, I'm not building a house here.
After seven or eight years, I decided maybe i'd be
here for a while, so I decided to build a house.
Nancy was my real estate agent. Their son Tommy built
my house. So that's an illustration of how far I
go back with the lesson. And by the way, Nancy

(58:20):
was the greatest real estate agent ever because she was
like a tiger. If you went into the cage with
her and you were properly armed, you were going to
get eaten. She was your advocate, you were I didn't
even need attention. She just handled everything.

Speaker 5 (58:34):
That's how she was. She was.

Speaker 6 (58:36):
The termis she was smart. She thought of all the angles.
She was just a really fantastic person. And beyond that,
she was smart, she was intuitive. I can't even think
of enough positive terms to stick next to her name,
because she is just magnificent.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Well, and she marked in that what you mentioned.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
I know that when when Slick Leonard, for example, began
working for HERF Jones and they were living in Kokomo,
she was I think working at the local high school,
you know. But in addition to that, she really helped
him out. And again to your point, I don't want
to undersell Slick Leonard's intellect by any stretch of the imagination.
You don't, you know, run an organization from a coaching

(59:23):
standpoint and win the number of games he did by
being a dummy. I mean, obviously the guy was a
smart guy, but from the business intuitive nature of this
is how things need to be done. Maybe she wasn't
the one that strong armed him in that regard, but
certainly was there to assist him in that regard. Fair statement.

Speaker 6 (59:44):
You know, I'm not there for those conversations. That seems
fair to me. And I know that he held her
advice and counsel in the highest possible esteem. So I'm
certain even though I wasn't there for those conversations. I'm
quite certain that you're onto.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Something mark when you you know, the summertime oftentime in
the off season, and this year the off season was
much shorter than in years past for the obvious reasons.
But you have always found different ways to fill the time,
whether it be going in broadcasting minor league baseball, whether
it be walking around the state raising money. You have
spent your time this offseason doing exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:00:17):
What, going to bed at night and hoping I wake
up in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
That's I've quoted the years. I guess right, that's listen, listen.
That seems like lofty goals each day, right.

Speaker 6 (01:00:34):
You get the loftier they are.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean. And here's the other thing. What
better reward each morning than to know you you succeeded
another day? Right?

Speaker 6 (01:00:44):
Well, I've been really blessed with genetics and such so
that I literally but almost never get sick. Now I'm
at the age and this happened to me this summer.
I got shingles, and at first, but like three days
in it said, okay, this is it. I'm glad, I
have I will written I'm dying.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I listen I've heard, and I'm not trying to make
light of it. I when I turned fifty, you know,
they're like, you got to get the shingles. It's a
two shot vaccine, and the second one was I mean,
it was pretty brutal. And then people said to me
that have had shingles, well, listen, that's better than the alternative.
Because I hear it's grueling, it's brutal.

Speaker 6 (01:01:24):
I can't really compare it because I've had it time
and I don't know how extreme it gets, but it's
not pleasant. I can tell you that. And I will
tell you this. You're on a good piece of land there.
Because I had chicken pox as a kid. I got
those vaccinations. And when I went in, when I realized
I had to go to my doctor, he said, I'm

(01:01:44):
surprised only three percent of the people and your circumstances
get it. I said, well, thanks, man, that doesn't really
help me Outdore.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Listen, there is no reason for you to buy a
powerball ticket ever again, because you just spent all your odds.

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
Oh yeah, so is the at least for me.

Speaker 6 (01:02:02):
I still feel great, I still have my health, and
I'm there's no day where I don't feel fortunate a
for that and be to have this job and see
for the people I work with and all of the
other things that are associated with that. But the reality
is this. I used to joke when I was a kid,
not a child, but in my twenties, I've always been Jake.

(01:02:22):
I've always been so forgetful, and I always joke with
my friends. Man, if I ever dementia, I'm not even
gonna know. Well, now, when I forget something, it's, oh
my god, Dementia's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Here, listen, it's I's You've never said anything in your
radio career that is more relatable to me than that, right,
it is. Every day it's oh my gosh, you know.
And here's the other thing with me, Mark, I think
that I'm cursed by it because everyone has told me

(01:02:55):
my entire life what a phenomenal memory I have, and
I'm like, shut up, don't chinse it right?

Speaker 6 (01:03:00):
Yeah, well, I never had that phenomenal memory. It was
good enough to get me where I needed to go.
But if you talk to anybody I've traveled with, even
back to my first years here, remember the time Mark
left his keys in Chicago. Remember the time he forgot
that suit in New York.

Speaker 5 (01:03:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:03:14):
Well I always forget stuff and so that's standard operating
procedure for me. But the point I'm making here is
the older you get, your perception is different, whereas I
just blew it off and I was in my thirties. Yeah,
I've been that way. Now I'm oh, I can see
the finish line.

Speaker 5 (01:03:32):
Yeah, so you overreact the other way.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Okay, lastly, Mark, and then I wanted to ask you
one more thing on Nancy. But you know, speaking of memory,
it obviously was a memorable run for the Pacers, and
now it comes at a season of intrigue because of
the injury to Halliburton and because of you know, some
different players that may be called upon to play in
different roles with the Miles Turner departure, for example. How

(01:03:57):
intrigued are you by the upcoming season, Erry, I.

Speaker 6 (01:04:01):
Don't see championship contention in the mix short term, although
if things developed we hope they might this season when
Haliburton comes back, assuming a complete recovery, then next season
will be really intriguing. For now, I don't see any
reason that this group of guys, particularly in a conference
that isn't that good, can at least contend for a

(01:04:23):
playoff spot, and I think that would be positive. Given
that you lost your player and one of the other tops,
say three players decided to go somewhere else, that's a
huge loss, and if you can overcome that by getting
to the playoffs, I think that would be an excellent
season mark.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
When I recall vividly when Slick Leonard passed, and I
know you know what an incredible impact he had on you,
both personally and professionally, and I would assume the same
is true of Nancy as you had talked about earlier.
But I remember you leading off your broadcast with an
incredible and articulate tribute to Slick and what he meant.

(01:05:01):
I wanted to give you the opportunity to simply let
our listeners know that may not have known of the impact,
the importance, the significance of Nancy Leonard, not just on
the Pacers franchise, but in this town from the vantage
point in which you saw it. If you could just
let people know exactly who or what Nancy Leonard was as.

Speaker 6 (01:05:22):
A person, well, I think we've already covered most of that,
so to capitalize it, I would say her impact on
our franchise on anyone that knew her on the city
and state is immeasurable personally if you ever get to
meet not one, but in my case two, and I'm

(01:05:43):
not suggesting I haven't met other great people, but if
you ever get to meet one person like Nancy Leonard
or one person like Slick Leonard, then consider yourself lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Mark. I appreciate the time, certainly. Help you feel better,
by the way, if you have not been feeling better yet, right,
just so you know, in three days I'll text you
to make sure you remember coming on the radio. How's that?

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
Who are you again?

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
I get that a lot anyway, I appreciate it, Mark,
Mark Boyle joining us the radio play by play voice
of the Indiana Pacers. Still a lot to get to today,
including Ralph Friefing to join us coming up in just
about an hour, as we will take a look over
some of the injuries around the NFL. And you know,
he actually is somebody that was touched by the impact

(01:06:32):
of Nancy Leonard's place within the Pacers as well, and
we will get to that. But those injuries that we
talked about again, Alec Pierce is in concussion protocol for
the Colts that has a pretty standard fare in terms
of the weight and see, and I think everybody understands
that aspect of it, but Kenny Moore as well. Now

(01:06:54):
we know that the calf injury is perhaps the Colts
looking at the possibility that it's more than and the
I'm not going to say more significant than a calf injury,
but could be one that has to be more delicate,
and I'm talking about the achilles. Shane Stikeen had mentioned
that earlier today that once they really started to look

(01:07:14):
at the injury of Kenny Moore, that they believe that
the achilles is something that may be where things are
and so that again we don't know the severity of that.
They said they have not begun discussing ir which is
good news because he is clearly a very important part
of their defense and in addition to that plays a position.

(01:07:35):
Does Kenny Moore that you know, it's kind of everywhere, right,
but that nickel spot is one that they may not
have the same level of depth that you see elsewhere.
But there are other injuries around the NFL that have
local impact. You know, Tyrone Tracy of course, the local
Purdue product and Eddie's old classmate from Decatur Central with
a dislocated shoulder. How long would he be out? There

(01:07:58):
are a lot of Ceedee Lamb who from a fantasy
football standpoint, would have impact on a lot of people.
We can discuss a lot of those things with Ralph
Reef and we plan on doing exactly that just about
an hour from now. But when we come back. He
is one of the more dynamic figures in terms of
football around Indiana and his team in action this weekend

(01:08:20):
talking about Ted Carris and Marion and we will talk
to him next. Big one on the near west Side.
I guess you'd call it the near west side, the
west side, whichever. We're gonna look at it over at
Marion this weekend. I'm talking about Saturday at one five
the Marrion Knights and Indiana Wesleyan number nineteen Marion and

(01:08:40):
number five Indiana Wesleyan and joining us now to talk
about that and more. He is the head coach of
the Knights who are coming off of a bye week. Now, Eddie,
I don't know about you, but for me, whenever like
you're coming off of, I'm not gonna say vacation. That's
the wrong way of saying it, but it takes a
second to get back into the swing of things, right Eddie.

Speaker 8 (01:08:58):
Sometimes, Jake, you never know, you could change things up
during the bye week, work on some stuff, figured things
out you're struggling on, and have an extra week to
prepare for a talent in Indiana Wesleyan team.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Well, we'll find out exactly as Mary and I hate
to say this, coach Ted Carris, but you know, the
your nights of Indiana Wesley's had your number of late.
You're coming off the buy. Let's begin with that. You're
two and one. What sort of things did you kind
of emphasize getting set for this one coming up on
Saturday to your guys.

Speaker 10 (01:09:26):
Well, like Atty said, you know, we worked on some
things we need to work on. We practiced for three
days last week. Coach tuts he called them that a
bye week of win week. You know, I think we
got some really good work done, got the team picture
and as well they did have the weekend off. We
had a really good practice yesterday and we're looking to
stack another one today. So you know, like you said,

(01:09:49):
you know, we practiced on some things we need to
work on and started preparing for a very talented Indiana
Wesley and from.

Speaker 9 (01:09:56):
I can do the coach speak too.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
I like that. I definitely, I think coach, you're coming
off of and I know that you obviously you know
the vibe. But in terms of your last outing, big
time offensive explosion against Defiance, what did you see and
look you put up. Your offense played well against Lawrence
Tech as well, So what have you seen? Let's begin
with the offensive side of the football that you have

(01:10:19):
liked or the areas that you've been able to capitalize well.

Speaker 10 (01:10:22):
I like the way the play of our offensive line
credit Dan Smith, our o line.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
Coach.

Speaker 10 (01:10:26):
I think we're running the ball really effectively. You mentioned Defiance.
You know, we didn't have Keaton LeBell that game, but
we had other guys that stepped up.

Speaker 9 (01:10:33):
CJ.

Speaker 5 (01:10:34):
Harris for Boff Product, you know, ripped off.

Speaker 10 (01:10:36):
A touchdown, Avery Garlock, Todd Hickman, Elijah Price out of
Ben Davis. So we're deep in the running back room.
So offensively, I think we're running the football really good.
I think that's that's some things that we have to,
you know, hang our head on this hip this year.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Do you like where you are defensively?

Speaker 6 (01:10:55):
Yeah, so far, so good.

Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
You know, we've I think we've improved defensively big time.

Speaker 10 (01:11:00):
You know, at the end of Week three of the
college football season, we're leading the nation in sacks at eighteen.
We didn't play last week, so we did to number two.
I think guys are sounding our run fits. We're playing
better pass defense.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
So yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:11:14):
But the biggest I think improvement has been on the
d line.

Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
Credit coach decords two for that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Guys.

Speaker 10 (01:11:19):
We have some guys that have really done. Ozzie Pollard,
freshman out of Carmel's come into and a heck of
a job. You know, our captain, Dean Dean Petterford three
point five sacks, and we have a lot of guys
contributing on the d line.

Speaker 6 (01:11:33):
We played ten.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
You know, when I look at this matchup, and again
when you're talking about Marion and Ted Carriss, by the way,
their head football coach is our guest. When you look
at Marion football Indiana Wesley and it is a great rivalry,
you know, at least from the outside. That's how I
see it. Coach, now, I don't know about it if
you see it as a rivalry, but you're talking about
a team that's in the top five. They like you

(01:11:55):
have had games where offensively they have really put up
some big numbers, but it looks like defensively there you
do have the ability to score against them. What jumps
out at you about Indiana Wesley and the areas that maybe,
to use a Rick Ventury term, is giving you ambient
keeping you up at night.

Speaker 10 (01:12:14):
Well, I think some of their movements, some of their
bliss packs just keep me up at night. You know,
they're a season group defensively, but some things that could
you know, neutralize those things as effectively running the football.

Speaker 6 (01:12:26):
And that's what I believe we.

Speaker 4 (01:12:27):
Have to do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Coach. When you look at your team, and let's go
back to the last time we talked. You're getting ready
to you know, kick things off against you Indy, and
now three games in, then the bye and then this one.
How are you different? And I know I've asked you
this before, but as a coach, do you find yourself
looking at your team saying, you know, what, our identity
is going to be different than what I thought at

(01:12:49):
the beginning of the year. Let me tweak or adjust
a little bit. Are you a different team than what
you thought you were going to be at the beginning
of the year.

Speaker 10 (01:12:59):
I don't know necessary were a different team than what
I thought. But I mean we've played some different players,
We've made some moves, different personnel groups, especially on the
defensive line, which I think have helped.

Speaker 5 (01:13:12):
So I you know, I don't really I don't really
go and and see what I think we're gonna be.

Speaker 10 (01:13:15):
You know, I live in a moment and what we
are and what we are right now with a pretty solid,
good defensive team, good team running the ball. We got
to keep improving in the passing game.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
When you talk about when you talk about the personnel
changes you've made, who who has jumped out at you
when you've looked at it and said, you know what,
this guy really has stepped up for me.

Speaker 10 (01:13:33):
Ozzie Poward has to be number one. You know, coming
into the freshman you know, had an injury his senior
year at Carmel, but he's really come in and you
know he you know, as a freshman on the D
line that's not easy to do, and he's really done
an excellent job. As well as Elijah Price out of
Ben Davis, he's come in and filled in well. H
He also he turns kicks for us. Those are two

(01:13:54):
guys that have really jumped.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
Out to me.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
That's what I love about it, the fact that you've
got local guys. You know, it's an opportunity to great atmosphere.
It's going to be a great atmosphere coming up again
at the Ascension State Vincent Field over at one o'clock
Marion on Saturday against Indiana Wesleyan and local guys, local players.
Oftentimes those that went somewhere came back wanted to be
closer to home, or in this case guys that came

(01:14:16):
straight out of high school and are contributing for you, coach.
I always enjoy the conversation. Certainly, I know it'll be
a good atmosphere and tough team coming in, but we
wished the best of lot coming up on Saturday.

Speaker 10 (01:14:27):
I appreciate you, Jake for having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Appreciate Ted ted kaas the head coach of the Nights.
By the way, October ninth, back nine Golf outing for
the basketball side of things with Pat Knight on October ninth.
I will put that up on the expost Twitter as well.
We've been talking about Nancy Leonard and the impact she
had on the Pacers organization. One who would know that
better than anyone. Kevin Pritchard, the team president, joins us next.

(01:14:53):
I will begin by saying what I have been saying
throughout the course of today, and that is that, as
somebody who grew up in this town, I have such
a pride for the teams in this city and in
addition to that, the way that this city has embraced
sports and really built its identity around sports. And it

(01:15:14):
is my belief that perhaps the strongest pillar in all
of that was Nancy Leonard. And without Nancy Leonard and
her vision for the Pacers, her vision for being able
to cement them within the NBA coming from the ABA,
I don't know that you get expansion of the Convention
Center and the building of the Hoosier Dome and eventually
an NFL franchise and all of the things that we

(01:15:36):
now enjoy. And it is a sad day, but the
day that we celebrate Nancy Leonard here in Indianapolis and
joining me now on the program, he is the president
of basketball Operations for the Indiana Pacers. Kevin Pritchard joining us,
Kevin on what I know is again a sad day,
but at the same time a celebratory day. I appreciate
your time in being able to reflect on Nancy Leonard.

Speaker 5 (01:16:00):
Glad to be on Jake, and congratulations to you and
your success. And you know, coming from Indianapolis and growing
up in Lawrence and Noblesville, I remember going to a
fifth grade basketball camp with the Pacers and meeting Nancy

(01:16:20):
and Slick at that time, and they were just they
were bigger than life. And you know, if you've met him,
you'd think that you were their best friends. And you know,
throughout my tenure, I've been very blessed to work with
Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird and like the foundational piece
that they're about is people first. And you know, I'm

(01:16:44):
getting a little sad talking about it because it's such
a blow to not just the Pacers organization, but what
the Leonards and specifically Nancy has done for this community.
It can't be measured, you just statistically, can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
Yeah? Sorry about that, Go ahead, Kevin.

Speaker 6 (01:17:11):
She just she just was a.

Speaker 5 (01:17:13):
Pillar of this community. And the one thing you knew
about Nancy is there's nothing more and she didn't have
any more pride than the Pacers, and it was because
she was the original. She was the og general manager.
And you know, we hired Kelly Cross Golf as one
of the you know, top females in the business a

(01:17:35):
few years ago to be an executive for the Pacers,
but the original was Nancy. And it's a really, really
sad day. I'm proud on one thing, and that is,
you know, she came to some playoff games this year
and I would see her after a big home win

(01:17:57):
and it just you could tell there was just this
amount of pride that can't be described in words. And
I wish we could have won a championship because today
I could have said that she would have won a championship,
you know, another championship for the organization. So it's a

(01:18:18):
tough loss. It's a really tough loss.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
You know, Kevin, I was thinking about this in life
in general, and no matter what realm or relationship you
have with people, oftentimes you know you look back, whether
it be they're passing or you know, you go to
another job, whatever it may be, there are always times
where you look back and you think I should have
said this, or I wish I'd done that.

Speaker 5 (01:18:39):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
That kind of a thing for you personally and for
the organization. What is the element of pride or can
you speak to it in knowing that you are right?
I mean, it was a half away from a title,
I get that, but yet it was such an incredible
run of joy in Euphoria and this town that cemented
again relationship between this town and that organization and professional

(01:19:04):
basketball in the Indiana Pacers and Nancy Leonard being able
to hug Myles Turner, to hug Tyree's Halliburton, to soak
in and see the fruits of her labor before her
almost feels like it was this town's way of saying
thank you, job well done. What does it mean for
you to know that you were somebody who helped facilitate

(01:19:24):
that and be able to have her enjoy that?

Speaker 5 (01:19:28):
Well, I can tell you this that I do remember
hugging her after some playoff games, and you know, you see,
you can just you know, you can see when somebody's
all in right, Like there's people that are fans, are
people that come to the games. But she was the
queen of the Pacers, and you know, you always, you

(01:19:54):
always felt her presence, no matter whether she was at
the game or not. She would always walk by the
management room and say hello. And you know, I remember
many times seeing her, you know, throughout the community at
a golf event or or you know, any any out
to dinner, and I was keavy, you know, I wasn't

(01:20:17):
you know, mister Pritchard or anything like that. I was
heavy to her. And you know, they had a great
feel of making you feel like you were part of
their family. And I think I think that trickles down
today to the Pacers. And you know, again, I'm not
sure you could measure that. That'smeasurable in terms of influence

(01:20:40):
and love and caring. And it wasn't a team, it
wasn't an organization. It was a family to her. And
you know, as I'm reflecting back, I hope in some
ways that I can do that and make people around
us and in the organization and our fan base know that, yeah,

(01:21:00):
we want to win as much, but we do this together.
We win together, and we lose together. And I think
that's what I felt, because during tough times she was
the same way as she was during a championship run.
So I think that's the one thing that I will
remember about her is no matter what, I was part
of her.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Family, Kevin. When you look back, Kevin Pritchard is our
guest from the Pacers. We're remembering Nancy Leonard today. The partnership,
I mean, obviously, as I've talked about with others today
goes without saying the incredible bond of love between Nancy
and Slick Leonard. And you know you could see that immediately.
But also, you know, going back to the telethon the

(01:21:41):
partnership that the two of them had, and her ability,
her business acumen, her vision for the franchise, all of
those things. Did you witness firsthand or can you illuminate
us on something you might have seen in terms of
the influence on a day to day that she had
on Slick Leonard?

Speaker 5 (01:22:01):
Well, I think you know, how do I say this politely?
Flick had a lot of passion, and sometimes when you
have that passion, sometimes you need to have someone right
next to your side saying it's going to be okay,
We're going to figure this out. And the other thing
I would tell you about Nancy is, you know, I

(01:22:24):
just there was no way she was going to accept no.
I mean, she she had a way of, you know,
being influential in a very positive way. But the last
thing I ever felt like I could do is theay
no to her, and she did it in a way
that was her own way, with her own words and
her own feel and her own touch, and that's a

(01:22:47):
special touch. But her and Slick were you know, I
don't know if you could talk about Slick without talking
about Nancy. It's just they were the Leonards. They were
the king and Queen of the Pacers, and you know
that's that's immeasurable.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Again, had you not grown up here, Kevin and been
around at what you did, I mean obviously as you
mentioned at the outset, but if you had come here
from an organization where you didn't have ties to Indiana
other than taking the job here, would you have immediately
known of the impact of the Leonards. Was it the
kind of thing that's introduced to people when they come

(01:23:23):
here or do you just kind of see it from
the immediacy?

Speaker 5 (01:23:28):
No, I think you know, any any official events, whether
it's a banquet or a meeting, or you know where
they were involved, you knew the Leonards like you know,
I lived here until I was twelve or thirteen, and
then I moved away, and then I came back and
immediately the first thing I do is, you know, communicate

(01:23:51):
with the Leonards and touch base with those would both
slick in Nancy, but I always just felt like they
were they were my family, and they may be part
of the family whether I was, you know, five thousand
miles away or a mile away. They just they embodied
what the Pacers are today and what they were back then.

(01:24:13):
And I remember specifically the telethon, and you know, I
was a really young boy when that happened, but you know,
I grew up knowing who who the Pacers were, who
was the face of the franchise for many years and
still are.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
You know, Chris texted in a listener Kevin and pointed
this out. I thought it was a fabulous idea. If
Nancy Leonard's name goes up in the rafters, which you know, Tyre's.
Haliburton even mentioned that he'd love to see it. I
realized that that's above both of us for that matter,
but in terms of those decisions. But each person that's
in the rafters, excluding mel Simon and Jim Morris, you know,

(01:24:55):
there's a number attached to them in some way, and
slicks case, it's the number of career wins. I think
it should say Nancy Leonard eighty twenty eight, because that's
the number of season tickets that were needed from the telethon,
and that's the number. She was so joyous in being
able to announce that essentially, quote unquote save the Pacers. Now,
I give that a thumbs up, idea your thoughts.

Speaker 5 (01:25:14):
I completely agree thumbs up. And I wasn't aware of
that exactly, remember, but god, that back then. You know,
it seems like a low number today, but when you
were growing up, that was monumental and just saved the Pacers.
And like you said earlier heard in the segment, you know,

(01:25:36):
the Pacers led to the Convention Center and the Colts
and then you know it just it's snowballed into this
incredible sports town. And whether you go anywhere in the
United States, the first thing people say, well, Indianapolis is
an incredible sportstown. And I think we all from Indiana.

(01:25:57):
We take a lot of times.

Speaker 6 (01:25:58):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:25:59):
I remember back when the NCAA tournament was going to
be canceled and Indianapolis popped up and said, hey, we
will host all these basketball games for the NCAA tournament.
And then everybody was like, holy cow, what an incredible
job Indianapolis did. And you think about that that doesn't
happen if the Pacers aren't here, and if that, if

(01:26:19):
the Pacers are here, and again how that transcended into
other things. There'd be no way the NCAAA is here.
There'd be no way that tournament could have gotten played
in Indianapolis. So it was a snowball effect and I
think it still grows. And for me, as a steward
of a team in this town, alls we want to

(01:26:41):
do is keep it going and keeping Indianapolis great, an
amazing place where sports not only as important, it's part
of our culture. So I hope in some way that
we can be good stewards of that helmet that she created.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Lastly, Kevin, when it comes to Nancy Leonard, I'm curious
of this when you come in and you know you're
in that position and you are the president of basketball
operations and you have a woman sitting there near you
at the games that was one of the original, the
original as you mentioned, you know, pioneer executives of the franchise.

(01:27:25):
Did she carry with her a confidence or exude any
sort of a belief of her knowing her own standing
or was there an elegance about it where you just
kind of knew it and she didn't have to say it.

Speaker 11 (01:27:41):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (01:27:42):
I think that's a difficult question because she had an
amazing elegance. I just I just think that the Leonard's
presence was always felt. And you know, you could and
remove the Pacers and the Leonards. It just it goes
in the same sentence. It's attached and it's it's meaningful.

(01:28:08):
But when when when I would hug her, it wasn't like,
oh hi, you know, a little side hugged. When you
hugged Flick and Nancy, it was an embrace and it
was meaningful. And they just had a way of touching everybody,
you know, like again calling me Kevy, and you know

(01:28:30):
they did that with a lot of people. But for
some reason, it just made you feel like you were home.
And that's irreplaceable. You don't feel the fill those shoes ever.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Kevin, obviously, you know on this program the season is
getting ready to get underway. There was a transaction that
took place yesterday that was announced in adding a point
guard in Money Morris. There are a lot of things
in that aspect. I could ask you about it. Probably
in the eyes of many would be remissive me to
not do so. However, when I asked you to come

(01:29:03):
on the program today, it was under the guys of
being able to talk about and reflect upon and celebrate
the life of Nancy Leonard. And I think in the
integrity of that, I keep it to that and certainly
would welcome it back on another time from a basketball standpoint,
but I appreciate the perspectives today.

Speaker 5 (01:29:21):
Yep. Glad to do it and keep up the great work.

Speaker 1 (01:29:24):
Jay, appreciate it. Kevin Pritcher joining us, the president of
basketball Operations for the Indiana Pacers, as we celebrate today
the life of Nancy Leonard at the age of ninety
three years old. All right, we have more to get to.
Mark Bonteeth is one that is a historian not only
of sports and Indiana, but the Pacers in general. He
will join us on the other side, and I'll let

(01:29:44):
you hear a little bit more from Nancy Leonard as
we did earlier in terms of that connection we talked
about with Slick Leonard. We'll do it on the other side.
Here you're listening to Quarrying Company on the fan Woes
on a Wednesday, and today, as I mentioned earlier that Typic,
we are starting to look towards what the Colts have upcoming.
They're going to be obviously in Los Angeles against the

(01:30:06):
Rams on Sunday. Kenny Moore, if you are just joining
us and have not heard, they are now looking at
what was thought to be a calf injury as possibly
an achilles for Kenny Moore, but they are not discussing
I are as of now, Alec Pierce still in the
concussion protocol, the fever last night on the very short
end against the Las Vegas Aces, that series now tied

(01:30:28):
at one game a piece. And it is interesting and
fitting that we would talk about the Colts and the
Rams coming up on Sunday. And let me explain why.
Those are two organizations that have had female owners at
the helm in the Rams case Georgia Frontier of course

(01:30:49):
before they moved back to Los Angeles, and in the
Colts case now all three of Jim Mersey's daughters as
the owners and of course the CEO being Carlier Gordon
as the CEO and co owner of the Indianapolis Colts
and those two organizations. Also when Bob Ursay purchased initially

(01:31:09):
the Los Angeles Rams, he made an ownership change with
Carol Rosenbloom to then get the Baltimore Colts, and Bob
Ursay moved the Baltimore Colts from Baltimore to Indianapolis in
nineteen eighty four, and he did so because it was
a city that was on the precipice of becoming a
big time sports town, and that was initially footprinted by

(01:31:33):
something that happened in nineteen fifty. In nineteen fifty, what
happened is a basketball player who had been a very
good player in Terre Hate was in his freshman year
at Indiana University. He was an all basketball guy that
didn't necessarily have a lot of experience in terms of
asking out girls and going on dates. But he saw
a girl that caught his eye in his health class,

(01:31:55):
and he did what any shy guy would do. He
stuck out his foot and tried to trip or as
she walked past, which forced her to have to kind
of look at him. And that is how Bobby later
known as Slick Leonard of Terre Haute met Nancy later
known as Nancy Leonard, his wife from South Bend, and

(01:32:15):
their relationship initially was an awkward or naive Slick Leonard
asking her out on a date, But as Nancy Leonard
told everyone at the tribute to Slick Leonard upon his passing,
it was a relationship and later a partnership from a
business standpoint and a family standpoint that took hold on

(01:32:41):
that moment and became strong for a very long time.

Speaker 2 (01:32:45):
Naive person when we met. It really was true that
he had not dated in high school, and a lot
of that was because of the economic conditions.

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
The clothes and things weren't there.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
And I had a really hard time even that because
I had, you know, one boyfriend after the other. His
idea of asking somebody to go with him. After two days,
he looked at me and he said, well will you
And I said, well, what do you mean? And he said,

(01:33:18):
well will you go with me? And I said, oh, yeah, okay,
and don't have anything better to do. But I knew
I was in real trouble the third date when he
started talking about getting married, and I mean, I was
really in a panic. But it was the right thing,
and I really sincerely think that God put us together.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40):
I was nerdy.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
I just studied all the time. We go to the
library and he pretend like he was studying.

Speaker 3 (01:33:46):
Of course, he wasn't anyway. We got through four years
at IU and.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
The lucky number was fifteen and got married on the fifteenth,
which was a Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
June fifteenth of nineteen fifty four, specifically on the Indiana
campuses where they would marry. And Nancy Leonard was more
than just the wife of Slick Leonard. She was an executive,
She was a business mind. She was oftentimes the business
person behind Slick Leonard as he worked at herf Jones
before he got back into coaching, when they were living

(01:34:22):
in Kokomo, and then of course when Slickland became the
head coach of the Pacers and they made the transition
from ABA into NBA, it was Nancy Leonard that was
the assistant general manager at that time. But they were
ten games under five hundred in that first year in
the NBA thirty six and forty six, and Nancy Leonard

(01:34:43):
is the one that said, guys, we've got to get
this in order here, We've got to pick up the
pace here if we want to survive as an NBA franchise.
And while Slick Leonard was the face of the franchise
at that time, publicly speaking, it was Nancy that was
behind the scenes, often in terms of the business actualities

(01:35:04):
of the Indiana Pacers. Here is Slick Leonard talking about
the impact of Nancy Leonard in that transition from ABA
to NBA and the fledgling financials of that era.

Speaker 4 (01:35:14):
At that particular time, merger time ABA NBA, we were
in a financial situation where you know, they weren't going
to be able to pay a bunch of money out.
So Nancy and I we stepped forward and I said,
I'll coach the ball club and Nancy can take all
the front office and all the dealings with the NBA

(01:35:37):
and everything. And she became very popular with the people
in the NBA. As a matter of fact, the one guy.

Speaker 6 (01:35:44):
That hated me really liked Nancy, and that was our box.
That funny.

Speaker 4 (01:35:50):
She was the first general manager, and then at a
later time she became vice president of the whole operation
and general manager. So yeah, she was the first. She
was the first woman. They did a wonderful job. And
I say that because the ball club.

Speaker 5 (01:36:08):
Was on the bridge, on the brink.

Speaker 4 (01:36:10):
We were totally out of money.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
And of course that led to the telethon of nineteen
seventy seven. After that first season of the NBA. It
was Nancy Leonard that essentially got together with the management
at WTTV Channel four at that time, on July the
third of nineteen seventy seven, beginning at ten o'clock at night,
the telethon to try to raise the money that was

(01:36:34):
necessary and symbolically, certainly at the very least the number
of season tickets they needed to sell eight thousand season
tickets in order to break financially even to the point
where they could get into and maintain and continue their
existence in the NBA. And it was during the telethon
when a jubulant and almost incredulous Nancy Leonard reported to

(01:36:56):
Slick Leonard that yes, in fact, the magic number had
been hit that would allow the Pacers franchise to remain
as an NBA franchise in Indianapolis in nineteen seventy seven.
And as we talk to you today and we talk
about the Colts and the Rams, and we talk about

(01:37:18):
the fever, and we talk about the Indianapolis Indians, and
we talk about the NCAA headquarters and putting on the
basketball championships for multiple divisions in Indianapolis upcoming this spring,
all of that, all of it is because of the
initial vision and the pillars in this town in terms
of the sports executives, and Nancy Leonard was the giant

(01:37:41):
among all of them. Joining me now on the program
somebody who knew Nancy Well, who knew Slickwell, who was
a historian not only of Indianapolis, but obviously a published
author in the history of the Indiana Pacers as well.
His website is Markmonteeth dot com. Mark joins me on
the show. Mark, Good afternoon. How are you good, Jake,
Good to be with you.

Speaker 10 (01:38:03):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
I want to begin with this, and you know, the
things that I was just talking about. I wanted to
kind of lay that for you to take off with.
And that is I think that we know about the
colorful caricature of Slick Leonard, and we know about the
the ABA Championships, and you know, just the wild and crazy,

(01:38:23):
good old fun days, if you will, of the Pacers.
But I know that people know of the impact that
Nancy Leonard had. But I don't think we can overstate it.
Can you illuminate for listeners just how centralized and important
a figure she was?

Speaker 12 (01:38:39):
Yeah, I would say on both a professional and personal level,
the support and the backbone that she provided for, first
of all, Slick in their family and then the Pacers
was absolutely essential. I used to have jokingly say, hey,
Slick would have died a long time ago if it
wasn't for Nancy. Really, I think that's true, because she

(01:39:01):
kept him organized and under control, as well as anybody
to keep Slick under control, and just kept him going,
you know, providing support. Slick once told me that he
never wrote a check in his life, you know, he never.
He didn't know how to work his phone. Really, he
didn't know how to work computers. He didn't know how
to balance books or anything. He was the front man,

(01:39:25):
you know, when he worked for her Jones selling those
graduation supplies. He made the calls. She was the personality.
Nancy ran the business back home. She was a business
teacher at Cocomona Taylor High School. When Slick became the
pater coach, she was the one capable of doing that
kind of thing. And then later when he's the coach
and GM of the Pacers, she's the one running the

(01:39:46):
front office like a twelve man group of people who
worked like crazy to keep the doors open. And she
was very bold and decisive and demanding, and I kept
the franchise going behind the scenes when he was out
there coaching and making trades. And some people believe she
had a hand in some of the personnel moves too,

(01:40:08):
and I wouldn't be surprised by that. She kind of
denied it, but I really think she occasionally had an
opinion that was followed on certain personnel matters. So a
very strong personality, but a very nice, generous person. At
the same time. I was with her once and she'd
had a glass or to a wine and she said,

(01:40:28):
I wish I were a nicer person, and I kind
of laughed at her. I think you're plenty nice. But
I know what she meant, because she could be very
stern as well. You did not want to cross her,
you know, you didn't want her to get mad at
she But at the same time, she was a very generous,
good hearted person and that certainly came through day to day.

Speaker 1 (01:40:46):
You know, Mark, it's interesting. There were so many people
in the life. And I want to go back to
something I said earlier, and I said this to Bill
Benner off the top of the show, Mark, and I'll
say it to you as well. I on a personal
or selfish level, which maybe I'm guilty of too often.
But you know, for me, it would be disingenuous to

(01:41:09):
say that I was around in this capacity when Nancy
Leonard and Slick Leonard were, you know, at their apex.
I mean, I did not know them in those days,
nor did I know either of them well anything other
than professional. And for that reason, it is with the
utmost gratitude that I have the access to ask Bill
Benner or yourself or others. And I'm not saying that

(01:41:30):
because you say that you're older than high. I don't
mean it that way. But you have covered it from
so many different areas and angles, and so I wanted
you to expand upon your understanding or what you saw
firsthand in terms of her ability. Nancy Leonard's to be
somebody who, as I understand it, was one that Slick

(01:41:53):
Leonard and there probably were not a lot of people
that Slick Leonard would defer to, but theoretically she was
one of them. Did you witness that firsthand?

Speaker 5 (01:42:03):
Yeah, no question, no question.

Speaker 12 (01:42:05):
I wrote about her an Slick at length various stops
along the way, and I did a one on one
episode with Nancy as well in their living room one time.
So did see a lot of things firsthand. I could
tell you one time I was sitting in the living
room interviewing both and Slick admitted that he was a

(01:42:27):
little afraid of her. I know, you and Bill talked
about this a little bit earlier, and Nancy kind of
laughed at that, and the Stick also got a little
choked up just talking about what she meant to him.
But she ran the show at home, no questions about it.
I could tell you another time, Stick and I went
down to Louisville to play golf with Ralph Beard, who
was a three time All American, the Kentucky and member

(01:42:48):
of the Indianapolis Olympians, and that he and Stick were
in the army together, so they were friends, and I
kind of got them reunited, and Stick and I went
to a riverboat casino after we played golf, but Spick
was afraid to tell Nancy what he was doing, so
he said, yeah, we went to dinner, and I ran
into Tom Jerry. She's the athletic director at Louisville at
the times that, you know, so we hung around. So

(01:43:10):
we're just getting back down, you know. But he was
afraid to tell her that he'd gone gabbling after we
played golf, you know, and that shows you're really kind
of the respect he had for her and her ability
to kind of keep him in line because he didn't
want to get her mad at him, you know, And
I'm sure there were plenty of times she did get
mad at him, you know, but Slick needed that because,

(01:43:31):
you know, he was just a guy from the opposite
side of the tracks that Nancy was from. She grew
up in an our middle class family in South Bend.
Her dad had a construction company. Slick grew up poor
in Terra Haute, and you know, they never would have
hooked up in the normal situation. But I know the

(01:43:52):
story you have told it already, how they met and
health class the freshman year at IU and stick wonder
over with his persistence in naivity. And she was a
big sports fan, so the fact that he was on
the basketball team really meant a lot to her, and
that was part of his appeal as well. So in fact,
when I won the national championship in nineteen fifty three,

(01:44:12):
they came back to Bloomington and there's a parade there
around the town square in Bloombeten and flicks in a
convertible and Nancy hopped in the car with him. You know,
she's riding around in the parade with him. And she
was in the parade the pacer parades for winning ABA
championships with him as well at times. So she was
always part of the organization. People knew of her, but

(01:44:32):
they didn't really have an idea of how important she
was to the operation of the franchise and just too
slicks existence.

Speaker 1 (01:44:42):
Mark, you grew up in this town. Mark Monteeth, is
my guest. You grew up in this town, you know,
on the on the west side. You're a graduate of
Pike High School, so you were like in Bill and
I talked about this earlier for those that are listening,
and I don't mean to belabor the point, but I
think on a day like today, it's an import and
want to recognize, and that is that we love the

(01:45:04):
luxury in this town. You love the luxury being able
to cover sports and write about it and run a
website and do interviews. And I love being able to
do a sports talk radio show and talk about the
Colts and Rams and the Fever and the Indians and
the NCAA here in town. And you know, the the
eleven and the igniting, all the different things that go on.
In your opinion, Mark, without Nancy and Slick Leonard, and

(01:45:29):
without that telethon in nineteen seventy seven, I'm not here
to say that all of a sudden we're Doomsday and
we instantly become fort Wayne overnight. But it's not as
far fetched as people would think. Would you agree with.

Speaker 12 (01:45:41):
That, Yeah, I would.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
I would.

Speaker 12 (01:45:43):
I mean, the Pacers Survival has done so much for
the city, and certainly you could argue that without sticking Nancy,
they wouldn't be here today. I think it's about a
dozen people you can point to and say without that person,
the Pacers would not exist. Certainly Alvin Herbert Simon would
fall into that category. I think the group that doesn't

(01:46:03):
get enough respect are the original investors in nineteen sixty
seven and eight who kicked in twenty thirds thirty thousand
dollars apiece just to keep the doors open. That includes
some people in.

Speaker 5 (01:46:14):
Lafayette as well.

Speaker 12 (01:46:16):
The PACER's first president was Joe Bannon, president at Lafayette Bank.
You had these people who sought no glory and didn't
really expect to make any money, kicking in money just
to get the franchise started, you know, so you have
people like that Yugosaathe had not made that trade for
mel Daniel in nineteen sixty eight, that they never would
have been above a five hundred team and never would

(01:46:36):
have survived. You know, there's a lot of people you
can point to, but certainly Slick and Nancy are absolutely
essential to the existence of the franchise today. And really,
you know that telethon that people talk about so much.
You know, Sick and Nancy were in Hawaii and there
was like a postseason All Star game and they were
scouting and taking the vacation and word came back from

(01:46:59):
the absentee owner they had Sam Nascy. The work came
back that hey, if we don't raise a certain amount
of money or get a guarantee of season ticket sales,
we're going to be sold. So they came back and
Nancy had a week to ten days to put together
a telethon, which is something that usually takes about a
year to organize, but she got it done in about

(01:47:20):
a week to ten days. The Convincement Center donated space,
RB's donated food. The telethone was aired on three of
the four local TV channels. I mean the whole city
combined to kick in and contributed to somehow people came
in over at three in the morning and played guitar
or whatever to have something to look at, you know, overnight,

(01:47:40):
because the thing aired for nearly twenty four hours. It
was on three and four in the morning. And she's
the one who was able to organize that in such
a short amount of time. And then the story of
how she became the assistant GM.

Speaker 5 (01:47:54):
You know, she wasn't the GM, but.

Speaker 12 (01:47:55):
She was the assistant GM who ran the front office.
And she told me that, you know, there was a
meeting with the owners. This is in nineteen seventy six
when the pacers are entering the NBA from the ABA,
and again there's a man who kicked in three point
two million dollars to meet the fee enter the NBA.
But they're at a meeting with the owners and they're

(01:48:17):
talking about, well, who's going to run the front office?
Now you know, Splick will be the GM, but who
we got to run the front office? And they seem
to be intimidated by it. And Andy said, look, guys,
there's a league and they have a set of rules,
and you just follow those rules and guidelines. And do
whatever you're supposed to do. It's not that hard, and
somebody who wants you do it. And she claims that

(01:48:40):
she had not even thought about that, and Slick said, well,
she could do it, and lo and behold, she became
the assistant GM of the Pacers that day in such
a haphazard way, and she was accepted. You know, I
don't think I don't know of any occasions where people
were saying, oh, this is crazy to have a woman

(01:49:01):
running the front office.

Speaker 5 (01:49:02):
What's that all about.

Speaker 12 (01:49:03):
She told the story of how Bob Collins, the sports
editor of the Star, called her up and went her
to meet her for lunch, and she was worried that,
oh man, he's probably gonna rip me. He's going to
tell me that I have no business doing this job.
And in fact, when they met, Colin said, look, you're
going to do great, and if anybody gives you a
hard time, you send them my way. I'll take care
of it, that kind of thing. So she got a

(01:49:25):
lot of support and it all worked out. You know,
she had that twelve person staff back in the late
seventies when the Pacers weren't any good, and kept that
thing going and you know, and then she every game
that Flick was at, she was at, you know, and
she I other than Slick. She has attended more Pacer

(01:49:47):
home games than anybody ever alive, because she was always
there in whatever capacity she was serving, even if it
was just as a fan.

Speaker 1 (01:49:55):
Mark, when you look back in talking to players, talking
to people around it, Mark Monteeth is my guest. We're
talking about Nancy Leonard, who passes away at the age
of ninety three. When you from the recollection, the interviews
you've done, the people you've talked to, what was the
relationship that Nancy Leonard had with players in that time

(01:50:17):
and I on even necessarily mean those that were playing
for Slick, but rather like as they were transitioning into
the NBA for example, or both in that crossover. In
terms of how players received having a female executive that
was there and was around.

Speaker 5 (01:50:32):
Yeah, I think that.

Speaker 12 (01:50:33):
When she was the assistant GM, I think they all
accepted her and respected her because again, she was very
authoritative and very decisive. Darnell Hillman told me the story
that when the NBA or wasn't the NBA, CBS had
an NBA Slam Dunk contest. You know, we know Darnell
was the winner of the first NBA Slam Dunk contest,

(01:50:55):
not put on by the league but by CBS Television,
completely different.

Speaker 5 (01:50:59):
Format what they have today.

Speaker 12 (01:51:01):
And Darnell tells the story they were warming up before
practice one day and Nancy came down to the floor
and say, look, guys, there's going to be a slam
dunk contest on CBS. It's going to work like this,
YadA yah YadA, and Darnell, you'll represent the Pacers. It
wasn't like, hey, you guys figured out, or let's have
a team competition to see who wins and represents the Pacers.

(01:51:22):
Darnell tough, and she was gone. You know, she made
that decision and no time at all and went on.
So I think the players respected that authority, and they
knew that Slick respected her and again was a little
afraid of her. So for that reason, you know, they
respected her as well. And then later years, when you

(01:51:42):
know Slick's a broadcaster, you know she would be at
the golf outings and other events.

Speaker 1 (01:51:46):
And she was like a mom.

Speaker 12 (01:51:48):
You know, I've got a picture of my phone of
her hugging Lance Stevenson, and you know we've all seen
pictures of her with guys like Miles Turner and Hadlerburton
and all through the year. I got a picture of
my phone of her with Darnell Hillman and Billy Kelder.
I mean, she was that grandmotherly or motherly figure who
everybody enjoyed being around. And again they respected her, but

(01:52:10):
it was in a different way because she wasn't their
boss at that time, But she was just somebody who
obviously liked people and cared about the franchise and cared
about them.

Speaker 1 (01:52:20):
Mark one other thing before I let you go. That's
interesting about that when you talk about the Darnell Hillman
will represent the Pacers in the Dunk Contest, it led
to one of the great shirts of all time because
by the time it came around, he wasn't a Pacer, right.

Speaker 12 (01:52:32):
Yeah, yeah, the bottle Shop. Darnell had been traded late
that season to New Jersey and he really wasn't yet
under contract with either team, I believe so from remembering this, right,
he knew he was going to be with New Jersey,
but he hadn't signed this deal yet or whatever, and

(01:52:53):
so he was kind of free. So he had played
on a softball team in the summer sponsored by the
Bottle Shop, which still exists today on North College around
what fifty fourth forty nine?

Speaker 5 (01:53:05):
There you go.

Speaker 12 (01:53:06):
Yeah, my buddy Tom Bovas owns it now. And so
Darnell wore a Bottle Shop shirt as his warm up
He didn't dunk in it, but he wore it as
his warm up shirt. And yeah, we have sold and
you came by to buy one. I know, we have
sold Bottle Shop shirts that are exact replicas of the
softball jersey that they wore then. And you can go

(01:53:28):
on YouTube and search for I guess it'd be like
nineteen seventy seven NBA Slam Dunk or just put in
Darnell Hillman's name and you can see him being interviewed
by Don Kricky after winning the Slam Dunk competition out
in Portland in that Bottle Shop shirt.

Speaker 5 (01:53:44):
So it's a pretty cool thing.

Speaker 12 (01:53:46):
It's awes Yeah, And Nancy is the one who made
sure Darnell was representing the Pacers because nobody knew better
than her he was a dunker.

Speaker 1 (01:53:54):
And when it comes to talking the history of the Pacers,
there are others that may be on par but nobody
knows more certainly than Mark Monteeth on short notice. Mark,
I always appreciate your willingness to come on, hop on
and certainly shed perspectives far beyond my capability, and so
therefore it's greatly appreciated.

Speaker 12 (01:54:13):
But I appreciate the opportunity, Jake, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:54:15):
Mark Monteeth joining us on the program. We come back.
There are plenty of injuries to talk about, including the
latest on Kenny Moore and a guy that knows a
little bit about those specific injuries. I don't mean specific
to the player, but how exactly you come back from those,
including Kenny Moore and calf or Achilles. Ralphrief will join
us next. What Ralph Reef worked underneath David Craig, who

(01:54:42):
is one that of course was close with both Bob
and Nancy Leonard. We can get into that as well,
and of course Ralph Reef with Reef Executive Performance Solutions
a long time noted. I would go so far as
to say the most note where the athletic trainer within

(01:55:03):
the area joining us on the program, because there are injuries.
There are always injuries in the NFL. I guess actually,
Ralph when it comes to just sports training in general
and high level sports. You're in the right business right
because you never want to see players get injured. Don't
get me wrong, but I mean it is a natural
product of what takes place within high, high level competition sports.

(01:55:26):
Good afternoon, Good to.

Speaker 5 (01:55:27):
Have you on well, thank you, Jake.

Speaker 11 (01:55:29):
And yes, injuries managing the body through an NFL season
or NBA or Major League Baseball, but specific to the NFL.
You know, I often knock on wood.

Speaker 12 (01:55:41):
The Colts had a very short injury list a couple
of weeks ago, and I think there was one day
where everybody on the rocker.

Speaker 3 (01:55:49):
Was at practice.

Speaker 11 (01:55:52):
But I know how much work goes into those players
to get them on the field for practice and manage
their bodies and so forth. It's a heavy load on
those the healthcare teams, and you try to keep them
out of the coaches interviews. But yes, significant injuries occur.

Speaker 1 (01:56:14):
Okay, let's begin with Kenny Moore. And again I want
to be clear everybody for in the case with Ralph,
I appreciate his expertise and his understanding and being able
to talk to you know, someone like me who flunked
algebra seven times to speak medically, But these are not
specific to these players. In other words, Ralph is not
the treating trainer for these players. We're speaking in generality

(01:56:36):
of injuries in general. For example, Kenny Moore, which initially
they thought was a calf strain, and now Shane Steichen
said they're actually going to look at the achilles and
see if perhaps the injury for Kenny Moore is not there.
I guess my first question Ralph would be, is it
common that the symptoms would be similar from one injury
to the other, which would cause for you know, initially

(01:56:59):
thinking it's one and then finding out, oh gosh, this
might be the achilles instead.

Speaker 12 (01:57:04):
Well, it's what it tells me is that the injury
that took Kenny down to the field on Sunday and
had to be assisted off and so forth occurred sort
of mid lower legs. So somewhere in that junction between
the Achilles tendon and the calf muffles is probably where

(01:57:26):
his initial injury occurred, where he was telling the medical staff,
and then as got into diagnostics sweaters MRI high high
resolution imaging, they realized that the portion of the Achilles
tendon was involved in that injury. So this is a

(01:57:47):
sort of middle of the lower leg versus something like
kyer Reese Haliburton had, which was down near the heel
where you're just dealing with the cord of.

Speaker 11 (01:57:57):
The Achilles tendon. This injury appears, from what they're presenting
in the media, is happened up in the muscle muscle area.

Speaker 1 (01:58:06):
Ralph, I'm going to show my ignorance here. Is it
true to say that, like if the calf is Indiana,
the achilles is Kentucky. In other words, are these two
muscles that border one another directly?

Speaker 11 (01:58:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 12 (01:58:19):
Absolutely, So the calf muscle there are two of them,
and the plantariffs, and then there's the muscular that you
can feel when you grab the back of your lower leg,
the big calf muscles.

Speaker 11 (01:58:35):
Those are attached to the body by the Achilles tendon.
So it's Achilles tendon that keeps those muscles in place.

Speaker 1 (01:58:43):
Okay, Now the another question I had on this injury
with Kenny Moore and Ralph, I'm giving you full permission
to tell me that this is the dumbest question that's
ever been asked of you, Okay, or to you, I
should say, when you're talking about the achille for example,
and I know this wasn't the case of how Kenny Moore,

(01:59:03):
to use that specific example, was injured per se. We
don't you know, who knows exactly what the moment was
of an injury. But when you are working with athletes
and you're talking about the achilles or a calf strain,
either one of them in any way, shape or form,
is it different or more susceptible an injury at or

(01:59:24):
risk of complication of injury for a player like a
defensive back in the NFL that has to run predominantly
backwards as opposed to forwards. And feel free to tell
me that that's the dumbest thing you've ever been asked.

Speaker 11 (01:59:38):
No, it's actually quite bright, Jake, because when you think
about and everybody always tries after the fact of thinking
how did this thing happen? What predisposed this injury to
occur on this particular Sunday, this far into his career,
and so on and so forth. But there's two different

(01:59:59):
motions that really get into the movement of the foot
and ankle. And there's there's I'm going to speak in
terms of when you hit the accelerator that's called plant REFLEXI. Okay,
you're going to plant your foot, you push the accelerator
down in your vehicle, and that is the motion that
requires most of the effort to come from your calf

(02:00:21):
and your achilles tendon to do that. Door suflection is
when you lift your foot up and you take your
foot off the accelerator and hit the brake, all right,
And so door suflection is a is a smaller range
of motion, and so when you're backpedaling, you're actually doing
a little bit more door suflection than you are plant reflection.

(02:00:44):
And so, to answer your question or put it this perspective,
about ninety two percent of all sports achilles injuries occur
in plant reflection. So when you're pushing the accelerator, when
you're when you're changing direction and you're making that first
step of acceleration, that's when most of these injuries occur.

(02:01:08):
So being a defensive back does not predispose someone to
having more of a heightened occurrence of achilles or calf injuries.

Speaker 1 (02:01:19):
Ralph Reef is our guest again. Reef Executive Performance Solutions
the company now and Ralphreef dot com is the website Ralph.
Before we get into it, I do want to talk
to you about the loss of a sports pillar today.
But I do want to again get to a couple
of injuries as it relates to the NFL, Tyrone Tracy,

(02:01:41):
local product, decater Central and Purdue. A shoulder dislocation. The
typical prognosis for that, in terms of length of time
before somebody would be back at one hundred percent would be.

Speaker 12 (02:01:51):
What, well, it can be pretty short two weeks to
depending upon the severity of the dislocation. Has he had
it before, did it truly fully dislocate or did it
just sort of partially dislocate, which is referred to as
a sublization, or it's less severe. And then with imaging

(02:02:13):
that they can look inside the joint, was there any
damage to the cartilage within the shoulder? And was there
any injury to the rotator cuff muscles that hold that
shoulder in place. So even if that's damaged a lot,
you know he's playing running back now, I believe you know,

(02:02:36):
you can put that in a brace and you can
be pretty functional pretty quickly.

Speaker 5 (02:02:42):
So while he may not.

Speaker 12 (02:02:44):
Heal and very few NFL players actually heal throughout the
course of the season, there are there are really good
methods to strengthen the tissue, the muscles, the big muscles
around the shoulder and and the bracing it's available today
could really shorten his time out unless there's something that

(02:03:07):
needs to really be attended to. From a severity issue,
he could have had maybe a small crack on the
head of the of the shoulder bone, the humorous all
of those things, but none of that's being reported.

Speaker 1 (02:03:20):
Okay, Ceedee Lamb. And this is noted for a lot
of people from a fantasy football standpoint because he's a
dynamic receiver, no doubt. In Dallas he has a quad strain.
Now you know you hear quad spray like strain or tear?
Is there a difference between the two? What what kind
of timeline typically is a quad strain?

Speaker 11 (02:03:38):
Well, now, Ceedee Lamb. I think he has a high
ankle sprain.

Speaker 1 (02:03:43):
Is it high ankle sprain?

Speaker 9 (02:03:44):
CD's got the high ankle tear Chlorin Sorry about that.
They can't really identify.

Speaker 11 (02:03:49):
Well, back to this fantasy league, it's going to be
a while before he catches passes, and so what what
is for a while. So if it's in the true
definition of a high ankle sprain, you really have three
things that happen and you can see it in the
video very clearly. He gets landed on the outside of

(02:04:11):
his lower leg and it causes his inside of his ankle.

Speaker 12 (02:04:17):
To take the brunt of the force. And so there's
a ligament there, really big ligament. Matter of fact, it's
the strongest ligament in the body, ligament old bone to bone,
the deltoid ligament. And that's been injured, all right. So
for to injure the deltoid ligament takes a lot of force.
The second part of a high ankle sprain is up

(02:04:38):
between the two bones of the lower leg, the tibia,
which is the main weight bearing bone of the lower leg,
and the fibula.

Speaker 11 (02:04:47):
And between those two bones there's tissue that I refer
to a lot like it's like saran wrap, all right.
It doesn't have a lot of blood flow. It's just
connective tissue, fibrous that hold those two bones together throughout
the length of the lower leg. In a high ankle sprain.
The way it looked for him, that innerossius or that

(02:05:10):
that membrane more than likely was ripped. And and if
you're cringing right now, yeah, you should cringe, because it
literally just rips and then it has to scar and
heal on its own and then the other part. The
third part of that is there the muscle tissue up
the inside or the media side. The inside of that

(02:05:33):
lower leg gets stretched, and that's really minimal compared to
the other two. The deltoi ligament and that innerossius membering
that's really hard. It's really easy to run straight early,
but to decelerate, cut rotations, jump in the air, land,
take off again, that's a lengthy return.

Speaker 1 (02:05:53):
Okay, quickly quad strain For Terry McLaurin, the kid out
of Cathedral who's now in Washington, obviously dynamic player, I'm
frame on that as usually what.

Speaker 11 (02:06:02):
Yeah, I think they're going to be very precautious, would
be my sense. You know, this is the first injury
that he's had where he might miss a game since
the twenty twenty season. He's resilient, and so I have
a sense that, and I know his agent personally. I
know they're going to get second opinions, if not third opinions,

(02:06:23):
and he's going to be well taken care of. I
think they're going to guard him, probably more than somebody
who'd be early in their career who wants to put
it so, depending upon the severity of this, This could
be three games, three to five games potentially, Ralph.

Speaker 1 (02:06:42):
I know that you in your vast career and you
are one who has been around for a variety of sports,
not just in Indianapolis but obviously worldwide, but in particular,
I believe, probably even earlier in your career, like many
your career was impacted by Nancy Leonard. I wanted to
give you the opportunity to speak to what she meant
to you.

Speaker 5 (02:07:02):
Yeah, how wild is this that you know?

Speaker 11 (02:07:06):
I listened to your show and just Bill Benner and folks,
and I just immediately think of the person who who
was there also with Nancy and Flick all along was
David Craig. David still living on the South side of
Indianapolis at longtime athletic trainer, and he had me. I

(02:07:29):
became his student assistant when I was a sophomore in
college at the University of Indianapolis nineteen seventy seven, and
so David took me under his wing and hanging around
Marcus Square arena, I became very familiar with Nancy Leonard
and the biggest impact that two impacts that Nancy Leonard

(02:07:51):
had on me, and I believe on numerous people David
Craig as well. She was encouraging and she she helped
me gain self confidence. She was encouraging, She paid attention
to me. She realized that I was a part of

(02:08:12):
the process as a college kid helping David, and she
just made me feel valued and it was something that
made an impact on me when I was eighteen years old,
nineteen years old, and then to watch her and then
to watch the city explode with sports and women in

(02:08:35):
sports leadership positions, I think nothing of it because Nancy
was there and so.

Speaker 12 (02:08:41):
That was my model.

Speaker 11 (02:08:42):
And then along come Standy Napp and others who are
well documented, and.

Speaker 12 (02:08:47):
Yeah, she made a big impact on me.

Speaker 11 (02:08:50):
And I know that there's a lot of people hurting
today just because of those great, great memories.

Speaker 1 (02:08:56):
Ralph, I appreciate the time as always and the expertise,
and the next time that we chat, I will give
you then the platform to verify my intellect by telling
Eddie that we have four ankles and not two.

Speaker 5 (02:09:07):
Okay, I'll work on that, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:09:08):
I appreciate it. Ralph Reef joining us on the program again.
Ralph Reef dot com r E I f F. By
the way, the spelling on the last name. We'll take
a quick break, we'll come back. We'll get set with
a crossover with JMV. Brought to you by the good
guys at Love Heating and Air Love dash HVAC dot com.
What pickle on pen? I heard JAMV talking yesterday. He

(02:09:30):
has been like running around all over all parts of Indiana.
I think taking pickleball lessons because he's going to be
hitting around the pickle today. JMV joined us part of
the crossover here, brought to you by the good guys
that love Heating and Air Love dash HVAC dot com
is the website. Three one seven, three five three twenty
one forty one is the telephone number. John. Let's begin

(02:09:51):
with that. You are now an expert pickleball player. Correct.

Speaker 13 (02:09:55):
It was awesome. That was my first time out there.
Earlier today with Steve Bodner and Kelly is here. I
think Corey was the pro that was with me, Austin
and then Maddie played a little bit too. This is
an excellent facility off a pin in Carmel. Get off
of one sixteen and find your way to pin. It's
right off of one sixteen. We'll talk about a little
bit later. On, but I'd never played before. The only

(02:10:18):
thing that I had to try to get used to,
Jake was being able to navigate through the rules.

Speaker 1 (02:10:24):
That's always kind of felt like I was in the
wrong spot. When you can and cannot go into the kitchen,
to me is the most confusing thing. The kitchen's an
area on the court by the way for those unfamiliar.
But but John, you can understand why and see why.
You know you're seeing more and more people playing this
and Austin facilities like that, you know are are viable

(02:10:45):
because it is super fun, man, and it's before you
know it. You've got to work out going.

Speaker 13 (02:10:50):
No, No, I went down there, played for We played
for about an hour or so. Hit the showers here
afterwards too. I'm up in the kitchen. They have a
great restaurant and bar up here. We're gonna have beers
and cocked and Jake, I should remind people you can
play for free while I'm here, and you can play me.
I'll come down whenever I'm done and play people. I
got my clothes right out of rock and good to go,
and I'm not hooping tonight, so I'm good to go

(02:11:12):
with pickleball.

Speaker 3 (02:11:12):
But I had a blast.

Speaker 13 (02:11:14):
It's just trying to learn the rules, which was a
little bit awkward.

Speaker 9 (02:11:18):
So you're Calf doing okay, John?

Speaker 13 (02:11:21):
Uh Yeah, I wrapped it up like I was playing.
See the Kinney Moore stuff scares me, like you wouldn't believe.
I mean, because it's Calf two Achilles, which they're talking
about today, and that is that's that's the danger zone
right there, as we saw with Tyree Salibert. But I
wrapped it up like I normally would play basketball, and
everything was fine.

Speaker 1 (02:11:41):
John. In terms of today's program, obviously, you know today
a big storyline as well, Nancy Leonard, and I don't
think that you know, you and I could sit here
and do three months worth and not be able to
talk to the incredible impact of magnitude she had in
the city of Indianapolis.

Speaker 13 (02:11:58):
There's no question. I mean, I was seven years old
whenever they ran the telethon, and I do remember it
because I've always been a basketball fan. But we all
understand the impact and just how Indianapolis, Jake would not
be Seriously, we wouldn't be doing this right because this
wouldn't exist. It simply would not exist what we're doing

(02:12:20):
right now, and you wouldn't have the Pacers, no NBA,
and we'd be talking about you know, IU athletics all
the time and some produced stuff. But we wouldn't be
talking about it because this wouldn't have happened without Nancy
and without Slick. And I heard your conversation with Bill Benner,
who was the beat writer for the Pacers back then.

(02:12:41):
Of very good stuff there. Mark Patrick, whom I used
to work with long ago, is going to join me
coming up at the four o'clock hour and go over
you know, obviously the very early stages. I think he
was still Jake, maybe at the tail end of high
school in nineteen seventy seven when they had the telethon,
but profound memories that he has had, and he's going

(02:13:02):
to join.

Speaker 9 (02:13:02):
Us for the first time in a long time.

Speaker 13 (02:13:04):
Mark Patrick is going to be on the show.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
The two of you are talking though, it's always awesome.
I mean, it's in depth. He's awesome, awesome.

Speaker 13 (02:13:12):
I mean it's just like you if you were talking
to Ted Sorenson. The memories just just flow and and
they're vivid still. And I'm gonna try to get Redporter
on here as well. Rep called on the show in
the summer a long time in arena announce her called
in the summertime. But we're going to try to see
if he wanted to drop in and share thoughts. And
I thought you worked out this as well as as

(02:13:34):
anybody could with those that have direct impact with the
Leonard family, with Nancy in particular here and get their
thoughts because you stated this to Bill Benner Jake, you
said that that we kind of hear all this secondhand
and when you go to those that actually were around it.

Speaker 9 (02:13:51):
That's why R.

Speaker 13 (02:13:52):
Miller, you know, for the was so spectacular in being
able to vividly recreate the time both you know, what
we know and what we didn't know about these stories
was so great. But we'll do as best we can.
You did an outstanding job in three hours on the
show today, though well.

Speaker 1 (02:14:10):
Appreciate it, John, and certainly have fun out there today.
I know, awesome facility and for you to have the
chance also to play some pickleball with folks will be fun.
And the conversation with Mark as well at four o'clock.
Appreciate it, all right.

Speaker 9 (02:14:22):
You got it, brother?

Speaker 1 (02:14:23):
All right? That's JMV who is up at again pickle
on pen. We will throw it out to him and
he will be with you. Mark Patrick four o'clock today
with John I Think Again, Bill Benner as well, Kevin Pritchard,
Mark Monteith, Mark Boyle, all for joining today, Ralph Reef
as well and sharing memories and condolences to the entire

(02:14:44):
Leonard family in the city of Indianapolis today. Thank you
for listening to a querying company.

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