June 15, 2025 • 40 mins
Richard Offen - Historian, Author, Broadcaster - Convicts
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is remember when with Harvey Degan on Perth six pr.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Open the door, Richard, open the door and let me in.
Open the door, Richard, rich.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Don't you than that door?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And he has, and he's sitting opposite me in the studio, Richard.
Often a very good evening to yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Good evening to you. And I've got to ask, where
did you dredge those songs up before?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Then?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
They magnificent, magnificently appalling.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well they were, I think so, yeah, And I did
say before we played them all that they should constitute
the worst songs people have ever heard.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah, I think you're right there.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
There are some, Seriously, there are some one hit wonders
that are really nice songs, really wonderful. The fact that
there weren't any not those, Yeah, they weren't, no horrible
they but there are songs that are nice and we're
only we're one hit wonders. And they never ever sort
of replicated that with any other songs, but a particular
individual or a group.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm thinking of graud Show Marx's famous line as he
left to parties that I had a marvelous time, but
this was not it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Indeed, now I know that you have a special topic
tonight to discuss with us, and I do hope that
you deliver that topic with some conviction.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yes, it's actually this month one hundred and seventy fifth
anniversary of the first convicts arriving to the West an
Australian penal colony. But before we get into that, can
I put my Royal Western Australian Historical Society hat.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
On because something really important coming up.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
There is we've got our annual lecture which is on Wednesday,
the second of July six for six thirty pm. And
I can tell you I've heard this chap speak before.
It's an amazing topic. It's the title is Weaving History
into Filmmaking and it's from the LOGI winning Tracks of Glory,
(02:32):
which was made by Paul Barron who's a film and
television producer and writer. And I've heard him speak before.
He is fascinating and he has brought history alive with
these films. And it should be a really good evening
because he's very entertaining as well.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
He really is.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So as I say, it's Wednesday, the second of July
at the UWA Club Auditorium and big booking is essential.
The cost is forty dollars, but it'll be forty dollars
well spent, I can assure you, and that's for society funds.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And you can.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Book a ticket on our website Historywest dot org dot
au or by phoning the Lovely Leslie in our office
on nine three eight six three eight four one, So
that's nine three eight six three eight four one, and
we'd love to see you there.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And if you didn't quite get that number, kight, he's
got it, so give us a buzzer on one double
three eight eighty two and one as well. Then yeah'll
probably be what's the capacity of the auditorium well over
one hundred, so it probably need to because I think
that'll be rush because he is very good.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He is fantastic, he really is. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So back to the convicts, and I will speak with convictions.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You say.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
These convicts arrived on the I loved the story and
we'll go into it later on the first of June
eighteen fifty. But they actually weren't the first convicts to
come to the colony. There may have been lots of
others on boats that went round Western Australia, but the
first convicts actually arrived in King George Sound on Christmas
(04:21):
Day eighteen twenty six, and they were part of a
party of people from New South Wales to come here.
In the wake of the Napoleonic Wars, which finished in
eighteen fifteen, there were fears that France was going to
lay claim to the western seaboard of Australia, and in
(04:45):
March of eighteen twenty six, Henry Bathurst, the Secretary of
State for War and the Colonies, sent a letter to
the Governor of New South Wales and in it he
requested that, if found suitable, a settlement should be a
state bablished in King George Sound. Now several other British
explorers have been there, George Vancouver and Matthew Flinders in particular,
(05:09):
and this was because it was on the shipping route
between Britain and Port Jackson. This prompted Governor what Ralph
Darling to send Major Edmund Lockier to establish a settlement
in the area with twenty troops and twenty three convicts.
And I think I was searching the other day for it.
(05:32):
I think I read somewhere in total. With the civilians
that were coming here, it was a party of about
eighty but I might have dreamt that.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They arrived in King George Sound on Christmas Day. Od
data to arrive in a place, isn't there.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
A bit the shops want to open?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
No, I don't think they were actually and the settlement
was called Fredericktown after King George's son Frederick. They also
bought with them enough domestic animals, food crops and building
materials to start this small and very remote in those
(06:11):
days outpost, and the convict presence was maintained in the
settlement until about November of eighteen thirty so, after the
Swan River Colony had been formed, and at that time
the control of Frederictown was let over to the Swan
River Colony and the troops and convicts withdrew back to
(06:33):
New South Wales, and so that colony continued. The small
proportion of laborers in the colony meant that everything was slow,
and incidentally Fredericktown Sterling renamed Albany, and so Elbany celebrates
(06:54):
its two hundredth anniversary of its founding next year. Whereas
we have to wait until a nineteen no twenty twenty nine,
aren't we Yeah, I have to think about it, yep.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So the Swan River Colony had been formed, and for
the first fifteen years the people of the colony were
generally opposed to the idea of accepting convicts. Even though
there was a very small laboring force here and they
were making well. There weren't enough of them to make
(07:28):
any significant progress on building infrastructure like roads, bridges, fortresses
or whatever. But the idea of asking the British government
to send convicts was in constant circulation and discussion almost
from the start of the colony. As early as eighteen
(07:50):
thirty one, permission was requested by a colonial land owner
that three hundred swing rights swing riot. I can't even
say it convicts, and I haven't had anything to drink.
That's probably the problem. Three hundred swing Riot convicts were
requested to be brought here but refused.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Now it's interesting the swing.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Riots were widespread uprising in the agri between agricultural workers
back in the UK worried about the mechanization of farming.
And it all began in my neck of the woods,
down in the Elam Valley in Kent, with the destruction
of a threshing machine. Obviously, before that, laborers had done
(08:38):
the threshing. This destruction was in the summer of eighteen
thirty and by December the riots had spread throughout the
South of England and East Anglia and caused a lot
of problems. And you can see their point. They were
worried that they were going to lose their jobs. Someone
(09:01):
that lost their freedom. They certainly did, and were sent
to all sorts of places. Even so, the idea of
convicts coming here was discussed at length, and there was
an editorial in the Freemantle Observer promoting the need for
convict labor.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And George Fletcher Moore, who was.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The Commissioner of the Civil Court in the early days
of the Swan River Colony, wrote in his diary mister Brown,
that was the colonial secretary called yesterday. He wants me
to sketch a plan for employing prisoners as a working gang,
the governor being anxious to occupy them in this way
(09:45):
if the settlers will pay for a superintendent. But that
came to nothing, and in eighteen thirty four Captain Frederick
Irwin of the sixty third Regiment suggested that they the
colony take in some Indian convicts. These would be used
for constructing roads and bridges and things like that, but
(10:09):
yet again that was pushed to one side. Also in
the same year, there was a meeting of settlers in
King George Sound, Albany, and they passed a motion that
labor was definitely needed. This was for the work of
clearing land around Albany and creating roads, but it was
(10:34):
defeated by the Western Australian Agricultural Society, who didn't like
the idea of convicts.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Just a few years later, in eighteen thirty nine, Governor
John Hutt, the second Governor of Western Australia, received a
letter from the Colonial Office in London asking the colony
to accept junior juvenile prisoners. These were young people who
(11:03):
had been first reformed in i quote penitentiaries especially adapted
for the purpose of their education and reformation. After seeking
comment from the agricultural society here, Hutt responded the majority
of the community would not object to boys above the
age of fifteen, but that the labor market could not
(11:27):
support more than thirty boys a year, and subsequently two
hundred and thirty four juvenile prisoners were transported here from
Parkhaus Prison. Incidentally, that's now a top security prison on
the Isle of Wight. They came between eighteen forty two
and eighteen forty nine, but they were classed as apprentices
(11:48):
here of course, no convict name whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And I guess we ought to take a break.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Caught we I think you need to make you're going great, Gunzi.
You can take a little sip of your cool clear
water and we shall be back before you've had a
chance to miss it.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
On Perth six PR. This is remember when with Harvey Degan.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And Richard Oftens in the studio with me, he's going
through the early days of the convicts here, just a
year or two after the settlement of the Swan River
colony and down albany Way. And you may have those
of you listening out there. You may have direct links
back to those convicts if you do give us a
call and have a chat about them. One double three
(12:31):
A to eighty two. Once upon a time you never
flush people out, it was, isn't it. Yeah, desperate to
find a convict in our ancestry.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Now, Just a funny little aside. A friend of mine,
an old teaching colleague of mine back in the UK,
when he first came to visit us here about ten
years ago. He remarked when he got here that they'd
given him the green immigration card on the plane to
fill in and he said, there was a question that said,
have you been convicted of anything? And he said, I
(13:05):
didn't know. It was still compulsory.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Lie. That was a great line that was dropped on
immigration by the great cricket commentator John Arlott.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Oh, yes, like that.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You remember from now.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I'm sure Stathan.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Coming in now from the northern end. And he was brilliant,
He was absolutely brilliant. And they said do you have
any previous conviction? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that was
still great line.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So getting back to these apprentices, the lads with the
best will in the world, you know, fifteen year olds
weren't going to set the world on fire with their
skills and knowledge of building roads.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
They'll be on their mobile phones all the time.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Well of course they would, yes, stupid boy.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And so it didn't help with the severe labor shortage
here and serious lobbying for Western Australia to become a
penal colony began in eighteen forty four and at that
time the members of the York Agricultural Society and they
were having the biggest problems because the road from York
(14:13):
to person Fremantle was virtually non existence, dust bowl in summer,
quagmire in winter, and absolutely useless. They brought forward emotion
stating that it is the opinion of this meeting that
inasmuch as the present land regulations have entirely destroyed our
labor fund, we conceived that the Home Government, that's the
(14:35):
English government, British government are bound in justice to supply
us with some kind of labor. And after mature deliberations,
we have come to the determination of petitioning the Secretary
of State for the Colonies for a gang of forty
convicts to be exclusively employed in public works. I just
(14:57):
love the words that are used.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
We've got a listener wishes to have a chat. Jeff
of Eastvic Parkers John.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Could I Jeff good Harvey? How are you welcome the
bushranger Moundine. Joe is a relative of mine.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Wow? How is his name?
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Was Joseph Bealitho John.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's right? Yes, from Barry in Wales.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
His mother was married Belitho and Belitho is an ancient
Cornish Homers in the Domestay book.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah it is, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
He wasn't a convict though, was he He was a
bush ranger.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
No, he was a convict to start.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
He was.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Transported here for stealing in I thought a little bit
about Moondan didn't know that bit, and he.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Kept gaping from Frio, so they built him a special
cell so he couldn't get out.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yes, he was the Houdini of the nineteenth century in
Western Australia.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
There's no doubt out it.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
So my surname is Blitho bl igh O and his
mother's name was Blo.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
That was too fantastic. Cool.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Yeah, what do you know?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Can you Are you good at escaping?
Speaker 5 (16:16):
I've never been in sight.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Well, just escaping the washing up in the evening is
a skill I find anyway.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I'm a bachelor of Well, there you go, the Moondine
Joe story.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That's my favorite Moondiine story. Just digressing. And he was
He was a British convict, of course, silly Harvey. What
he was doing at Fremantle Jail. He was sentenced to
hard labor and that meant breaking rocks. But because they're
a bit worried about him escaping, they brought the rocks
into the prison that's a true story. And so he
(16:50):
was breaking the rocks, and then when the guards weren't watching,
he was also whacking the walls of the fremental prison
with the sledgehammer. Sledgehow and that's how we escape. Amazing.
You must be very you must be very proud to
have to have him in your lineage. Jeff.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Yeah, well I only found out a couple of years ago.
I've had romas, but I'm still I actually go and
did not for a fact.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
No, Well, that's great, indeed, good only, thank you very much.
Anyone else has got links to any convince. It was
a buzz, yeah, certainly. So.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
The your agricultural society said that we really ought to
have convicts here, but there was still strenuous opposition to it.
But you know, other particularly the agricultural society, is cottoned
onto this, and they kept saying that the convicts would
(17:50):
provide much needed labor to help with the infrastructure. And
but that eighteen forty five petition was rejected you nanimously
by the Council, the Legislative Council. They stated that the
necessity for such an application is not apparent. No dearth
(18:11):
of labor can be so extreme as to call for
or warrant our having recourse to such a hazardous experiment
for a supply, so they weren't too keen on it. However,
to address the problems raised by the petition, the Legislative
Council asked, with great misgivings, for the British Government to
(18:35):
send out a small number of convicts for a limited term.
When the reports of the Council's debate on the introduction
of convicts arrived in Britain in eighteen forty eight, the
British government.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Took great interest in them.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Not surprisingly, by this time the only British colonies still
willing to accept convicts under protest were Canada and Van
Demon's Land now Tasmania. Even New South Wales had stopped.
By then. A tentative attempt to institute a penal system
(19:12):
within England had caused public outcry and had been dispen suspended.
With nowhere else to send convicts, the numbers of British
jails had in jails had increased, and there were serious
problems over there.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Well, what do you know, Steve of Beachbrook, That a
lot of story to tell us, could I.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Steve good Evening? Yes, Tarby and Richard. Hello, Yes, my
great great grandfather was a Parker's boy.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
He came out on the Cumberland in eighteen forty six. Yeah,
and he was of the ripe old age of nine
crust packers. Boy.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Is incredible, isn't it. What did he do steal a
handkerchief or a loaf?
Speaker 6 (20:00):
Me that I haven't found out what his crime was? Yes,
terrible really when you think about how old you could
send somebody like halfway around the world nowhere, yes, at nine?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, yeah, I mean how did you survive on the
ship for three or four months?
Speaker 4 (20:19):
As incredible? All that? All that?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, poor little blighter, Well it must have carved a
pretty good future for himself. You must have been a
lad of strong character.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Steve Well, Yes, I guess.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
I guess they put them to work pretty much down
at wherever it was done in the Southwest that they
hadn't and.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I think a lot of them were built.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, I think a lot of them were put into
domestic labor, weren't they, and things like gardeners and that
sort of thing, because a nine year old wouldn't be
up to building a bridge, I don't think.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Year. No, maybe apprenticed of some sort. I'm not sure.
I don't have all the story about his life because
I'm still looking into that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, that'll be interesting to you. What give us a
buzz back when you delve into PA. We'd love to
know the history of a nine year old who's made
good after being deported at that age. Good only stay.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Thanks for you, Colling, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Thank you. That's great.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, has got some good I thought it, thought it
might bring some people out tonight.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
So yet again the British government said, nap, We're not
doing that. We're not sending you them on a fixed term.
You either have them for life or not at all.
And that led to even more concern over here about
getting them, should we have them or not? And after
(21:47):
the break, I'll talk about a public meeting. In February
of eighteen forty nine.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
This remember when with Harvey Degan on Perth six PR.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Richard often talking about our early convicts. I suppose they're
all early weren't they?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Well they yes to tortoism, Yes, yes, So in February
of eighteen forty nine, this whole issue of are we
going to have convicts? Aren't we came to a head,
and there was a public meeting held in what we
now call the old Courthouse down in Sterling Gardens. Three
hundred attended it, and on they say there was a
(22:32):
hot debate, But on a February day with three hundred
in there.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I think everything was hot.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I think there were a few who fainted. I don't know,
but very soon a majority view emerged that in support
of a proposal put forward by Laronel Sampson, who of
course was a merchant in Fremantle. Sampson argued that the
colony needed both labor and capital, and he thought that
(23:03):
a penal colony would not only bring the labor, but
there would be some money coming with it from the
British government to help. They got the convicts, but not
a lot of money, and as a result, Governor Fitzgerald
(23:23):
was able to tell the Colonial Office that the colony
had decided that we could be turned into a convict
colony in May of eighteen forty nine. She's quite quick
after the February meeting. When you think that letters had
to go backwards and forwards by ship, I'm wondering whether
(23:47):
the British government had decided to impose the colony the
convicts on us, because there was an order in Council
that on the first day of June of eighteen forty
nine that Western Australia would become a penal colony.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Because we should remember that the whole philosophy behind convict
settlement of Australia from Britain was to clear out the
British jail.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
That's right, moved the dross somewhere well away from them.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, and it has to be said.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
In eighteen fifty anticipation of the first convicts arriving, the
Legislative Council debated a convict discipline bill and it didn't
get too far, the Inquirer reported on the second of January.
(24:40):
Notwithstanding the many alterations and amendments effected at the former sitting,
the bill had to undergo still further pruning, as it
was red clause by clause discussion. There was none rambling.
Conversation took place, sometimes three or four speaking at once.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
That sounds like Premiers question.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Time to me. But anyway, and as later as late
January that year, the Birth Gazette was reporting that we
would get some convicts, and the first convict ship, of course,
arrived on the first of June eighteen fifty in Fremantle,
(25:24):
much to the surprise of everyone here. They weren't expecting them. Really, yeah,
it's lovely. I love the irony of this. You couldn't
make this up. It Nobody mentioned this in the articles
in the newspapers, but evidently the convict ship had overtaken
the ship bringing the message to say you're going to
(25:46):
receive convicts. So I don't think communications have got much
better in the last two hundred years.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Anyway.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
As a result, they'd got seventy five convicts and nowhere
to put them, so Daniel Scott, who was the Freemantle
harbor Master, rented out his wall store as a secure
place to keep them until they the convicts built their
own prison basically which is now Freemantle Prison. Now Captain
(26:19):
Edmund Henderson was responsible for the seventy five convicts on board,
as well as the pensioner guards and with the warders
and their families who accompanied them.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
So these these.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Pensioner guards were allowed to bring their family with them
free of free of charge. There was a total of
two hundred and seventy seven passengers on board, so they'd
found a place to lock the convicts up, but nobody
seems to have thought about where on Earth all of
the others were going to stay, so that must have
been a problem as well. And the Britain's penal colony
(26:59):
was great or penal system was gradually being reformed and
it began to deal with more of its minor offenders
at home, and this meant that UK transporter transported higher
proportion of serious offenders to wa and from eighteen fifty
(27:20):
one to eighteen fifty three the number of convicts arriving
in the colony increased quite considerably. The mood of the
free population changed from popular to support to one of
great concern. But it has to be said that the
(27:40):
vast proportion of the convicts who came here were pretty
well behaved. There were only a few, like Moondine Joe,
who were a problem. The colony, when it asked for
these convicts, set three conditions. Initially, no female convicts, no
political prisoners, and no convicts convicted of serious crimes should
(28:05):
be transported here. Well, the only one the British government
took notice of was no female convicts. We had quite
a few serious offenders and quite a good number of
political ones, particularly the Fenians. We know about the cat
helper rescue. The first one was as I say, the
(28:30):
ladies was kept throughout the second one until eighteen sixty
eight when the last it was the last convict ship
brought the sixty two Fenians to Western Australia, and the others,
as I said, really weren't too too badly behaved for
(28:51):
serious criminals. They were mainly thieves and that sort of thing. Well,
no bit worse than that, stealing really valuable stuff. I
think we had a few murderers, but not so many
of them. And between eighteen fifty and eighteen sixty eight,
(29:11):
when the last ship arrived here, almost ten thousand convicts
were transported in forty three convict ship voyages, so it
was quite amazing. Thirty seven of the voyages carried large
numbers of prisoners from England, with one voyage even collecting
(29:32):
convicts from Bermuda. I bet they were disappointed to leave
that rather nice place. And the remaining six ships brought
smaller car goes of military prisoners from amongst the ranks
of the British troops, particularly those in India, because that
was a bit closer and according to the dead persons
(29:53):
Society website. WA convicts had been sentenced to terms of
six to fifteen years. That's why we didn't get many murderers,
because they would have got a lot longer or generally hanged,
you know. So it was embezzlers and that sort of thing.
Some reports suggest that their literacy rate was around seventy
(30:14):
five percent, as opposed to only fifty percent of those
in the Eastern States.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
So we got clever convicts as well as and.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
About a third of the convicts left after serving their time,
but many of them also reconvicted locally later of minor
offenses and so on. And there were also four instances
of prisoners escaping and being sent back after they'd been recaptured.
(30:49):
For convicts who were nearing the end of their sentence,
of course, there was the ticket of leave introduced. This
was similar to our modern day parole and how provide
a labor, a labor for the development and expansion of agriculture.
And the effects of that convict era continued to be
felt for many years and quite a number of the
(31:14):
although the eighteen sixty eight they'd stopped sending the convicts
here because there'd been a huge penal reform in Britain,
and more large prisons had been built, quite a lot
of them that had sentences that ran into the eighties
and nineties. So they were still convicts and then ticket
(31:34):
of leave and then whatever. And it's interesting. In eighteen
seventy four, WA's Legislative Assembly lobbied the British government for
responsible government. Now, I know those two words together sound
like an oxymoron, but that means that instead of all
of the decisions made by the Legislative Council here having
(31:57):
to go back to Britain to be ratified and then
come back to say yes, you can do it, it
meant we could be responsible for our own work here.
I suspect an awful lot of decisions that were made
here were acted out before ever they got back to Britain.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
But that's another story. But the British government.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Refused this request for responsible government on the grounds that
the proportion of ex convicts in the colony was too high. Now,
if you look at the members of the houses of
Parliament at that time, that's pretty rich.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I can tell you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Most of the convicts spent very little time in prison,
and we'll perhaps talk a little bit about what they
did after the break.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
There were some great contributors to society certain that not
just in WI of course, Australia wide. Okay, looking forward.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
To that until midnight on Perth six PR This is
remember when with Harvey d again and.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Richard often has been well as in his usual manner
of enlightened the ass on all sorts of things, but
mainly to do with convicts. And as you mentioned before
the break, some really turned out to be a great citizen.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Yesterday certainly did. Yeah, yes, yeah, quite a few.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
There was one who managed the telegraphy set up in
Perth in eighteen sixty nine. And Greenaway isn't It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Francis Greenaway was the architect. Yeah, yeah, was he based here? Him?
I think he might have Beenston Stadium, he.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Might have been. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
But I think actually ironically he was a criminal and
of course he got his ticket of leave. I think
he built a courthouse, designed and built a I love
firsthand knowledge.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yes, he'd seen the inside of them before, so quite easily.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
So, as I said before the break, most WA convicts
didn't spend that much time actually in prison, those who
were stationed in Fremantle. Of course, were housed in the
convict establishment once they built it, which took a couple
of years, but most of the convicts were stationed in
other parts of the colony. There was no convict assignment
(34:16):
in Wa, a practice which was used in the other
penal colonies. This involved assigning convicts to work with private individuals,
which some considered was slavery, so they would be assigned
to a property owner for farm work and things like that.
(34:39):
But here initially and throughout the convict period, most convicts
worked on creating infrastructure first for the convict system and
then constructing other things later. For instance, in Perth, the
convicts built Perth Jail, which is now part of the
Wamus Zeum. That took two years to build, and some
(35:04):
were then housed to provide labor for other projects in
the cities, so they were housed in that jail, and
of course they built Perth Town Hall at the Canning
River Convict fence, which you can still see to this day.
Convict escapes did occur, especially those stationed to work in
(35:25):
remote areas out in the wheat belt and places like that.
These offered better opportunities for escape. But it's interesting there
were a group of convicts out in York and I
think it was eighteen sixty four, and they found some
flecks of gold and they decided to head off to
(35:46):
South Australia. I think they'd only gone about a day's journey,
and they went back and gave themselves up because they
realized that it wasn't going to work getting across the
Nullibore desert.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I don't think the ear Highway was fully sealed there.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
No, I don't think it was. No.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
And since the colony was pretty much surrounded by water
on one side and desert on the other, it was
almost impossible to leave. On some occasions, though escapees left
the colony, but most surrendered to avoid starvation. Notable the
exceptions was of course our friend's ancestor Moondine Joe, who
(36:29):
remained at large in the colony for about two years.
And then of course there was John Boyle O'Reilly, the
Fenian prisoner, who managed to escape to the USA. But
as I said before, the convicts who were well behaved
look forward to obtaining a ticket of leave before completing
their sentence, and that permitted them to be able to
(36:53):
work for money, whereas the other convicts were just given
boordant lodgings basically and a few garets or something like that.
And this meant that complete freedom for them once they
got their ticket of leave and pardon, but they could
never return to England, so they were doomed, not that
(37:18):
it would be a doom really to be here. And
it also affected the children too, with neither ex convicts
nor their children, very few of them actually married into
settler families in the first instant. And that's probably why
we got to the stage some years ago when nobody
mentioned they'd got a convict background. Now, of course it's
(37:40):
a badge of honor.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Yes. One of the.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Ones who did very well, as I mentioned earlier, was
James Fleming, who was transported here in eighteen sixty four
for defrauding a Glaswegian tea merchant. Now I don't know how,
because he had telegraphic skills, he knew about the telegraphy system,
he'd learnt that in Scotland, and as a result he
(38:09):
was put in charge of all the technical aspects of
our first telegraph system and that came into being in
June of eighteen sixty nine. As a result, Fleming was
appointed the colony's Superintendent of telegraphs, So you know, he
was one of the ones that did very well. Indeed,
(38:30):
quite a number of ex convicts, interestingly were appointed teachers
and yeah, so they carried quite a responsible place in society,
and government posts, of course, were generally close to them,
with the notable exception of teaching. And once the convict
(38:54):
eer came to an end, Britain punished its own and
the last convict ship was the Hugemont, which arrived in
February and January of eighteen sixty eight. By then, wa
was strongly objecting to the cesation of transportation, but once
(39:18):
it became clear that the decision would not be altered,
they just gave up and said, okay, that's fair enough,
and it went its mery way.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Indeed it did well.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Well.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
We've learned so much about our early convict days. Tonight, now,
just before we let you go, Richard, and we have
people tuning in all the time, tell us about another
reminder about the Paul Baron Letcher. Yes, the Historical Society's
annual lecture weaving history into filmmaking. Paul Barron, who's a
(39:53):
film and television producer. He's giving a talk and he
is a very entertaining and interesting speaker. He's at the
UWA Club Auditorium on Wednesday, the second of July. It's
six for six thirty tickets of forty dollars. It will
be a fascinating evening. You can either get a booking
(40:17):
on the Historical Society's website or by phoning nine three
eight six three eight one four nine three eight six
three eight four to one sorry three eight four one,
No worries, we've got that number here and if you're
missed it faction you want a book, just give Katie
a call on one double three eight eighty two and
(40:37):
thank you for tonight. It was fantastic as it always is,
and we'll see you in a fortnight.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
Yes, indeed
This is remember when with Harvey Degan on Perth six pr.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Open the door, Richard, open the door and let me in.
Open the door, Richard, rich.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Don't you than that door?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
And he has, and he's sitting opposite me in the studio, Richard.
Often a very good evening to yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Good evening to you. And I've got to ask, where
did you dredge those songs up before?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Then?
Speaker 4 (00:50):
They magnificent, magnificently appalling.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well they were, I think so, yeah, And I did
say before we played them all that they should constitute
the worst songs people have ever heard.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Yeah, I think you're right there.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
There are some, Seriously, there are some one hit wonders
that are really nice songs, really wonderful. The fact that
there weren't any not those, Yeah, they weren't, no horrible
they but there are songs that are nice and we're
only we're one hit wonders. And they never ever sort
of replicated that with any other songs, but a particular
individual or a group.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm thinking of graud Show Marx's famous line as he
left to parties that I had a marvelous time, but
this was not it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Indeed, now I know that you have a special topic
tonight to discuss with us, and I do hope that
you deliver that topic with some conviction.
Speaker 4 (01:48):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yes, it's actually this month one hundred and seventy fifth
anniversary of the first convicts arriving to the West an
Australian penal colony. But before we get into that, can
I put my Royal Western Australian Historical Society hat.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
On because something really important coming up.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
There is we've got our annual lecture which is on Wednesday,
the second of July six for six thirty pm. And
I can tell you I've heard this chap speak before.
It's an amazing topic. It's the title is Weaving History
into Filmmaking and it's from the LOGI winning Tracks of Glory,
(02:32):
which was made by Paul Barron who's a film and
television producer and writer. And I've heard him speak before.
He is fascinating and he has brought history alive with
these films. And it should be a really good evening
because he's very entertaining as well.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
He really is.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So as I say, it's Wednesday, the second of July
at the UWA Club Auditorium and big booking is essential.
The cost is forty dollars, but it'll be forty dollars
well spent, I can assure you, and that's for society funds.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
And you can.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Book a ticket on our website Historywest dot org dot
au or by phoning the Lovely Leslie in our office
on nine three eight six three eight four one, So
that's nine three eight six three eight four one, and
we'd love to see you there.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And if you didn't quite get that number, kight, he's
got it, so give us a buzzer on one double
three eight eighty two and one as well. Then yeah'll
probably be what's the capacity of the auditorium well over
one hundred, so it probably need to because I think
that'll be rush because he is very good.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He is fantastic, he really is. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So back to the convicts, and I will speak with convictions.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
You say.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
These convicts arrived on the I loved the story and
we'll go into it later on the first of June
eighteen fifty. But they actually weren't the first convicts to
come to the colony. There may have been lots of
others on boats that went round Western Australia, but the
first convicts actually arrived in King George Sound on Christmas
(04:21):
Day eighteen twenty six, and they were part of a
party of people from New South Wales to come here.
In the wake of the Napoleonic Wars, which finished in
eighteen fifteen, there were fears that France was going to
lay claim to the western seaboard of Australia, and in
(04:45):
March of eighteen twenty six, Henry Bathurst, the Secretary of
State for War and the Colonies, sent a letter to
the Governor of New South Wales and in it he
requested that, if found suitable, a settlement should be a
state bablished in King George Sound. Now several other British
explorers have been there, George Vancouver and Matthew Flinders in particular,
(05:09):
and this was because it was on the shipping route
between Britain and Port Jackson. This prompted Governor what Ralph
Darling to send Major Edmund Lockier to establish a settlement
in the area with twenty troops and twenty three convicts.
And I think I was searching the other day for it.
(05:32):
I think I read somewhere in total. With the civilians
that were coming here, it was a party of about
eighty but I might have dreamt that.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
They arrived in King George Sound on Christmas Day. Od
data to arrive in a place, isn't there.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
A bit the shops want to open?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
No, I don't think they were actually and the settlement
was called Fredericktown after King George's son Frederick. They also
bought with them enough domestic animals, food crops and building
materials to start this small and very remote in those
(06:11):
days outpost, and the convict presence was maintained in the
settlement until about November of eighteen thirty so, after the
Swan River Colony had been formed, and at that time
the control of Frederictown was let over to the Swan
River Colony and the troops and convicts withdrew back to
(06:33):
New South Wales, and so that colony continued. The small
proportion of laborers in the colony meant that everything was slow,
and incidentally Fredericktown Sterling renamed Albany, and so Elbany celebrates
(06:54):
its two hundredth anniversary of its founding next year. Whereas
we have to wait until a nineteen no twenty twenty nine,
aren't we Yeah, I have to think about it, yep.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So the Swan River Colony had been formed, and for
the first fifteen years the people of the colony were
generally opposed to the idea of accepting convicts. Even though
there was a very small laboring force here and they
were making well. There weren't enough of them to make
(07:28):
any significant progress on building infrastructure like roads, bridges, fortresses
or whatever. But the idea of asking the British government
to send convicts was in constant circulation and discussion almost
from the start of the colony. As early as eighteen
(07:50):
thirty one, permission was requested by a colonial land owner
that three hundred swing rights swing riot. I can't even
say it convicts, and I haven't had anything to drink.
That's probably the problem. Three hundred swing Riot convicts were
requested to be brought here but refused.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Now it's interesting the swing.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Riots were widespread uprising in the agri between agricultural workers
back in the UK worried about the mechanization of farming.
And it all began in my neck of the woods,
down in the Elam Valley in Kent, with the destruction
of a threshing machine. Obviously, before that, laborers had done
(08:38):
the threshing. This destruction was in the summer of eighteen
thirty and by December the riots had spread throughout the
South of England and East Anglia and caused a lot
of problems. And you can see their point. They were
worried that they were going to lose their jobs. Someone
(09:01):
that lost their freedom. They certainly did, and were sent
to all sorts of places. Even so, the idea of
convicts coming here was discussed at length, and there was
an editorial in the Freemantle Observer promoting the need for
convict labor.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And George Fletcher Moore, who was.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
The Commissioner of the Civil Court in the early days
of the Swan River Colony, wrote in his diary mister Brown,
that was the colonial secretary called yesterday. He wants me
to sketch a plan for employing prisoners as a working gang,
the governor being anxious to occupy them in this way
(09:45):
if the settlers will pay for a superintendent. But that
came to nothing, and in eighteen thirty four Captain Frederick
Irwin of the sixty third Regiment suggested that they the
colony take in some Indian convicts. These would be used
for constructing roads and bridges and things like that, but
(10:09):
yet again that was pushed to one side. Also in
the same year, there was a meeting of settlers in
King George Sound, Albany, and they passed a motion that
labor was definitely needed. This was for the work of
clearing land around Albany and creating roads, but it was
(10:34):
defeated by the Western Australian Agricultural Society, who didn't like
the idea of convicts.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Just a few years later, in eighteen thirty nine, Governor
John Hutt, the second Governor of Western Australia, received a
letter from the Colonial Office in London asking the colony
to accept junior juvenile prisoners. These were young people who
(11:03):
had been first reformed in i quote penitentiaries especially adapted
for the purpose of their education and reformation. After seeking
comment from the agricultural society here, Hutt responded the majority
of the community would not object to boys above the
age of fifteen, but that the labor market could not
(11:27):
support more than thirty boys a year, and subsequently two
hundred and thirty four juvenile prisoners were transported here from
Parkhaus Prison. Incidentally, that's now a top security prison on
the Isle of Wight. They came between eighteen forty two
and eighteen forty nine, but they were classed as apprentices
(11:48):
here of course, no convict name whatsoever.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
And I guess we ought to take a break.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Caught we I think you need to make you're going great, Gunzi.
You can take a little sip of your cool clear
water and we shall be back before you've had a
chance to miss it.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
On Perth six PR. This is remember when with Harvey Degan.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And Richard Oftens in the studio with me, he's going
through the early days of the convicts here, just a
year or two after the settlement of the Swan River
colony and down albany Way. And you may have those
of you listening out there. You may have direct links
back to those convicts if you do give us a
call and have a chat about them. One double three
(12:31):
A to eighty two. Once upon a time you never
flush people out, it was, isn't it. Yeah, desperate to
find a convict in our ancestry.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Now, Just a funny little aside. A friend of mine,
an old teaching colleague of mine back in the UK,
when he first came to visit us here about ten
years ago. He remarked when he got here that they'd
given him the green immigration card on the plane to
fill in and he said, there was a question that said,
have you been convicted of anything? And he said, I
(13:05):
didn't know. It was still compulsory.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Lie. That was a great line that was dropped on
immigration by the great cricket commentator John Arlott.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Oh, yes, like that.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You remember from now.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
I'm sure Stathan.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Coming in now from the northern end. And he was brilliant,
He was absolutely brilliant. And they said do you have
any previous conviction? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that was
still great line.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
So getting back to these apprentices, the lads with the
best will in the world, you know, fifteen year olds
weren't going to set the world on fire with their
skills and knowledge of building roads.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
They'll be on their mobile phones all the time.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Well of course they would, yes, stupid boy.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And so it didn't help with the severe labor shortage
here and serious lobbying for Western Australia to become a
penal colony began in eighteen forty four and at that
time the members of the York Agricultural Society and they
were having the biggest problems because the road from York
(14:13):
to person Fremantle was virtually non existence, dust bowl in summer,
quagmire in winter, and absolutely useless. They brought forward emotion
stating that it is the opinion of this meeting that
inasmuch as the present land regulations have entirely destroyed our
labor fund, we conceived that the Home Government, that's the
(14:35):
English government, British government are bound in justice to supply
us with some kind of labor. And after mature deliberations,
we have come to the determination of petitioning the Secretary
of State for the Colonies for a gang of forty
convicts to be exclusively employed in public works. I just
(14:57):
love the words that are used.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
We've got a listener wishes to have a chat. Jeff
of Eastvic Parkers John.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Could I Jeff good Harvey? How are you welcome the
bushranger Moundine. Joe is a relative of mine.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Wow? How is his name?
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Was Joseph Bealitho John.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
That's right? Yes, from Barry in Wales.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
His mother was married Belitho and Belitho is an ancient
Cornish Homers in the Domestay book.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah it is, yes.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
He wasn't a convict though, was he He was a
bush ranger.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
No, he was a convict to start.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
He was.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Transported here for stealing in I thought a little bit
about Moondan didn't know that bit, and he.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Kept gaping from Frio, so they built him a special
cell so he couldn't get out.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yes, he was the Houdini of the nineteenth century in
Western Australia.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
There's no doubt out it.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
So my surname is Blitho bl igh O and his
mother's name was Blo.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
That was too fantastic. Cool.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Yeah, what do you know?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Can you Are you good at escaping?
Speaker 5 (16:16):
I've never been in sight.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Well, just escaping the washing up in the evening is
a skill I find anyway.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I'm a bachelor of Well, there you go, the Moondine
Joe story.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
That's my favorite Moondiine story. Just digressing. And he was
He was a British convict, of course, silly Harvey. What
he was doing at Fremantle Jail. He was sentenced to
hard labor and that meant breaking rocks. But because they're
a bit worried about him escaping, they brought the rocks
into the prison that's a true story. And so he
(16:50):
was breaking the rocks, and then when the guards weren't watching,
he was also whacking the walls of the fremental prison
with the sledgehammer. Sledgehow and that's how we escape. Amazing.
You must be very you must be very proud to
have to have him in your lineage. Jeff.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Yeah, well I only found out a couple of years ago.
I've had romas, but I'm still I actually go and
did not for a fact.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
No, Well, that's great, indeed, good only, thank you very much.
Anyone else has got links to any convince. It was
a buzz, yeah, certainly. So.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
The your agricultural society said that we really ought to
have convicts here, but there was still strenuous opposition to it.
But you know, other particularly the agricultural society, is cottoned
onto this, and they kept saying that the convicts would
(17:50):
provide much needed labor to help with the infrastructure. And
but that eighteen forty five petition was rejected you nanimously
by the Council, the Legislative Council. They stated that the
necessity for such an application is not apparent. No dearth
(18:11):
of labor can be so extreme as to call for
or warrant our having recourse to such a hazardous experiment
for a supply, so they weren't too keen on it. However,
to address the problems raised by the petition, the Legislative
Council asked, with great misgivings, for the British Government to
(18:35):
send out a small number of convicts for a limited term.
When the reports of the Council's debate on the introduction
of convicts arrived in Britain in eighteen forty eight, the
British government.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Took great interest in them.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Not surprisingly, by this time the only British colonies still
willing to accept convicts under protest were Canada and Van
Demon's Land now Tasmania. Even New South Wales had stopped.
By then. A tentative attempt to institute a penal system
(19:12):
within England had caused public outcry and had been dispen suspended.
With nowhere else to send convicts, the numbers of British
jails had in jails had increased, and there were serious
problems over there.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Well, what do you know, Steve of Beachbrook, That a
lot of story to tell us, could I.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Steve good Evening? Yes, Tarby and Richard. Hello, Yes, my
great great grandfather was a Parker's boy.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Wow.
Speaker 6 (19:45):
He came out on the Cumberland in eighteen forty six. Yeah,
and he was of the ripe old age of nine
crust packers. Boy.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Is incredible, isn't it. What did he do steal a
handkerchief or a loaf?
Speaker 6 (20:00):
Me that I haven't found out what his crime was? Yes,
terrible really when you think about how old you could
send somebody like halfway around the world nowhere, yes, at nine?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, yeah, I mean how did you survive on the
ship for three or four months?
Speaker 4 (20:19):
As incredible? All that? All that?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, poor little blighter, Well it must have carved a
pretty good future for himself. You must have been a
lad of strong character.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Steve Well, Yes, I guess.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
I guess they put them to work pretty much down
at wherever it was done in the Southwest that they
hadn't and.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I think a lot of them were built.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, I think a lot of them were put into
domestic labor, weren't they, and things like gardeners and that
sort of thing, because a nine year old wouldn't be
up to building a bridge, I don't think.
Speaker 6 (20:55):
Year. No, maybe apprenticed of some sort. I'm not sure.
I don't have all the story about his life because
I'm still looking into that.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, that'll be interesting to you. What give us a
buzz back when you delve into PA. We'd love to
know the history of a nine year old who's made
good after being deported at that age. Good only stay.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Thanks for you, Colling, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Thank you. That's great.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, has got some good I thought it, thought it
might bring some people out tonight.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
So yet again the British government said, nap, We're not
doing that. We're not sending you them on a fixed term.
You either have them for life or not at all.
And that led to even more concern over here about
getting them, should we have them or not? And after
(21:47):
the break, I'll talk about a public meeting. In February
of eighteen forty nine.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
This remember when with Harvey Degan on Perth six PR.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Richard often talking about our early convicts. I suppose they're
all early weren't they?
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Well they yes to tortoism, Yes, yes, So in February
of eighteen forty nine, this whole issue of are we
going to have convicts? Aren't we came to a head,
and there was a public meeting held in what we
now call the old Courthouse down in Sterling Gardens. Three
hundred attended it, and on they say there was a
(22:32):
hot debate, But on a February day with three hundred
in there.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
I think everything was hot.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I think there were a few who fainted. I don't know,
but very soon a majority view emerged that in support
of a proposal put forward by Laronel Sampson, who of
course was a merchant in Fremantle. Sampson argued that the
colony needed both labor and capital, and he thought that
(23:03):
a penal colony would not only bring the labor, but
there would be some money coming with it from the
British government to help. They got the convicts, but not
a lot of money, and as a result, Governor Fitzgerald
(23:23):
was able to tell the Colonial Office that the colony
had decided that we could be turned into a convict
colony in May of eighteen forty nine. She's quite quick
after the February meeting. When you think that letters had
to go backwards and forwards by ship, I'm wondering whether
(23:47):
the British government had decided to impose the colony the
convicts on us, because there was an order in Council
that on the first day of June of eighteen forty
nine that Western Australia would become a penal colony.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Because we should remember that the whole philosophy behind convict
settlement of Australia from Britain was to clear out the
British jail.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
That's right, moved the dross somewhere well away from them.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
Yeah, and it has to be said.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
In eighteen fifty anticipation of the first convicts arriving, the
Legislative Council debated a convict discipline bill and it didn't
get too far, the Inquirer reported on the second of January.
(24:40):
Notwithstanding the many alterations and amendments effected at the former sitting,
the bill had to undergo still further pruning, as it
was red clause by clause discussion. There was none rambling.
Conversation took place, sometimes three or four speaking at once.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
That sounds like Premiers question.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Time to me. But anyway, and as later as late
January that year, the Birth Gazette was reporting that we
would get some convicts, and the first convict ship, of course,
arrived on the first of June eighteen fifty in Fremantle,
(25:24):
much to the surprise of everyone here. They weren't expecting them. Really, yeah,
it's lovely. I love the irony of this. You couldn't
make this up. It Nobody mentioned this in the articles
in the newspapers, but evidently the convict ship had overtaken
the ship bringing the message to say you're going to
(25:46):
receive convicts. So I don't think communications have got much
better in the last two hundred years.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Anyway.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
As a result, they'd got seventy five convicts and nowhere
to put them, so Daniel Scott, who was the Freemantle
harbor Master, rented out his wall store as a secure
place to keep them until they the convicts built their
own prison basically which is now Freemantle Prison. Now Captain
(26:19):
Edmund Henderson was responsible for the seventy five convicts on board,
as well as the pensioner guards and with the warders
and their families who accompanied them.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
So these these.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Pensioner guards were allowed to bring their family with them
free of free of charge. There was a total of
two hundred and seventy seven passengers on board, so they'd
found a place to lock the convicts up, but nobody
seems to have thought about where on Earth all of
the others were going to stay, so that must have
been a problem as well. And the Britain's penal colony
(26:59):
was great or penal system was gradually being reformed and
it began to deal with more of its minor offenders
at home, and this meant that UK transporter transported higher
proportion of serious offenders to wa and from eighteen fifty
(27:20):
one to eighteen fifty three the number of convicts arriving
in the colony increased quite considerably. The mood of the
free population changed from popular to support to one of
great concern. But it has to be said that the
(27:40):
vast proportion of the convicts who came here were pretty
well behaved. There were only a few, like Moondine Joe,
who were a problem. The colony, when it asked for
these convicts, set three conditions. Initially, no female convicts, no
political prisoners, and no convicts convicted of serious crimes should
(28:05):
be transported here. Well, the only one the British government
took notice of was no female convicts. We had quite
a few serious offenders and quite a good number of
political ones, particularly the Fenians. We know about the cat
helper rescue. The first one was as I say, the
(28:30):
ladies was kept throughout the second one until eighteen sixty
eight when the last it was the last convict ship
brought the sixty two Fenians to Western Australia, and the others,
as I said, really weren't too too badly behaved for
(28:51):
serious criminals. They were mainly thieves and that sort of thing. Well,
no bit worse than that, stealing really valuable stuff. I
think we had a few murderers, but not so many
of them. And between eighteen fifty and eighteen sixty eight,
(29:11):
when the last ship arrived here, almost ten thousand convicts
were transported in forty three convict ship voyages, so it
was quite amazing. Thirty seven of the voyages carried large
numbers of prisoners from England, with one voyage even collecting
(29:32):
convicts from Bermuda. I bet they were disappointed to leave
that rather nice place. And the remaining six ships brought
smaller car goes of military prisoners from amongst the ranks
of the British troops, particularly those in India, because that
was a bit closer and according to the dead persons
(29:53):
Society website. WA convicts had been sentenced to terms of
six to fifteen years. That's why we didn't get many murderers,
because they would have got a lot longer or generally hanged,
you know. So it was embezzlers and that sort of thing.
Some reports suggest that their literacy rate was around seventy
(30:14):
five percent, as opposed to only fifty percent of those
in the Eastern States.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
So we got clever convicts as well as and.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
About a third of the convicts left after serving their time,
but many of them also reconvicted locally later of minor
offenses and so on. And there were also four instances
of prisoners escaping and being sent back after they'd been recaptured.
(30:49):
For convicts who were nearing the end of their sentence,
of course, there was the ticket of leave introduced. This
was similar to our modern day parole and how provide
a labor, a labor for the development and expansion of agriculture.
And the effects of that convict era continued to be
felt for many years and quite a number of the
(31:14):
although the eighteen sixty eight they'd stopped sending the convicts
here because there'd been a huge penal reform in Britain,
and more large prisons had been built, quite a lot
of them that had sentences that ran into the eighties
and nineties. So they were still convicts and then ticket
(31:34):
of leave and then whatever. And it's interesting. In eighteen
seventy four, WA's Legislative Assembly lobbied the British government for
responsible government. Now, I know those two words together sound
like an oxymoron, but that means that instead of all
of the decisions made by the Legislative Council here having
(31:57):
to go back to Britain to be ratified and then
come back to say yes, you can do it, it
meant we could be responsible for our own work here.
I suspect an awful lot of decisions that were made
here were acted out before ever they got back to Britain.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
But that's another story. But the British government.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Refused this request for responsible government on the grounds that
the proportion of ex convicts in the colony was too high. Now,
if you look at the members of the houses of
Parliament at that time, that's pretty rich.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
I can tell you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Most of the convicts spent very little time in prison,
and we'll perhaps talk a little bit about what they
did after the break.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
There were some great contributors to society certain that not
just in WI of course, Australia wide. Okay, looking forward.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
To that until midnight on Perth six PR This is
remember when with Harvey d again and.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Richard often has been well as in his usual manner
of enlightened the ass on all sorts of things, but
mainly to do with convicts. And as you mentioned before
the break, some really turned out to be a great citizen.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Yesterday certainly did. Yeah, yes, yeah, quite a few.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
There was one who managed the telegraphy set up in
Perth in eighteen sixty nine. And Greenaway isn't It wasn't.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Francis Greenaway was the architect. Yeah, yeah, was he based here? Him?
I think he might have Beenston Stadium, he.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Might have been. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
But I think actually ironically he was a criminal and
of course he got his ticket of leave. I think
he built a courthouse, designed and built a I love
firsthand knowledge.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yes, he'd seen the inside of them before, so quite easily.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
So, as I said before the break, most WA convicts
didn't spend that much time actually in prison, those who
were stationed in Fremantle. Of course, were housed in the
convict establishment once they built it, which took a couple
of years, but most of the convicts were stationed in
other parts of the colony. There was no convict assignment
(34:16):
in Wa, a practice which was used in the other
penal colonies. This involved assigning convicts to work with private individuals,
which some considered was slavery, so they would be assigned
to a property owner for farm work and things like that.
(34:39):
But here initially and throughout the convict period, most convicts
worked on creating infrastructure first for the convict system and
then constructing other things later. For instance, in Perth, the
convicts built Perth Jail, which is now part of the
Wamus Zeum. That took two years to build, and some
(35:04):
were then housed to provide labor for other projects in
the cities, so they were housed in that jail, and
of course they built Perth Town Hall at the Canning
River Convict fence, which you can still see to this day.
Convict escapes did occur, especially those stationed to work in
(35:25):
remote areas out in the wheat belt and places like that.
These offered better opportunities for escape. But it's interesting there
were a group of convicts out in York and I
think it was eighteen sixty four, and they found some
flecks of gold and they decided to head off to
(35:46):
South Australia. I think they'd only gone about a day's journey,
and they went back and gave themselves up because they
realized that it wasn't going to work getting across the
Nullibore desert.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I don't think the ear Highway was fully sealed there.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
No, I don't think it was. No.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
And since the colony was pretty much surrounded by water
on one side and desert on the other, it was
almost impossible to leave. On some occasions, though escapees left
the colony, but most surrendered to avoid starvation. Notable the
exceptions was of course our friend's ancestor Moondine Joe, who
(36:29):
remained at large in the colony for about two years.
And then of course there was John Boyle O'Reilly, the
Fenian prisoner, who managed to escape to the USA. But
as I said before, the convicts who were well behaved
look forward to obtaining a ticket of leave before completing
their sentence, and that permitted them to be able to
(36:53):
work for money, whereas the other convicts were just given
boordant lodgings basically and a few garets or something like that.
And this meant that complete freedom for them once they
got their ticket of leave and pardon, but they could
never return to England, so they were doomed, not that
(37:18):
it would be a doom really to be here. And
it also affected the children too, with neither ex convicts
nor their children, very few of them actually married into
settler families in the first instant. And that's probably why
we got to the stage some years ago when nobody
mentioned they'd got a convict background. Now, of course it's
(37:40):
a badge of honor.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Yes. One of the.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Ones who did very well, as I mentioned earlier, was
James Fleming, who was transported here in eighteen sixty four
for defrauding a Glaswegian tea merchant. Now I don't know how,
because he had telegraphic skills, he knew about the telegraphy system,
he'd learnt that in Scotland, and as a result he
(38:09):
was put in charge of all the technical aspects of
our first telegraph system and that came into being in
June of eighteen sixty nine. As a result, Fleming was
appointed the colony's Superintendent of telegraphs, So you know, he
was one of the ones that did very well. Indeed,
(38:30):
quite a number of ex convicts, interestingly were appointed teachers
and yeah, so they carried quite a responsible place in society,
and government posts, of course, were generally close to them,
with the notable exception of teaching. And once the convict
(38:54):
eer came to an end, Britain punished its own and
the last convict ship was the Hugemont, which arrived in
February and January of eighteen sixty eight. By then, wa
was strongly objecting to the cesation of transportation, but once
(39:18):
it became clear that the decision would not be altered,
they just gave up and said, okay, that's fair enough,
and it went its mery way.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Indeed it did well.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Well.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
We've learned so much about our early convict days. Tonight, now,
just before we let you go, Richard, and we have
people tuning in all the time, tell us about another
reminder about the Paul Baron Letcher. Yes, the Historical Society's
annual lecture weaving history into filmmaking. Paul Barron, who's a
(39:53):
film and television producer. He's giving a talk and he
is a very entertaining and interesting speaker. He's at the
UWA Club Auditorium on Wednesday, the second of July. It's
six for six thirty tickets of forty dollars. It will
be a fascinating evening. You can either get a booking
(40:17):
on the Historical Society's website or by phoning nine three
eight six three eight one four nine three eight six
three eight four to one sorry three eight four one,
No worries, we've got that number here and if you're
missed it faction you want a book, just give Katie
a call on one double three eight eighty two and
(40:37):
thank you for tonight. It was fantastic as it always is,
and we'll see you in a fortnight.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
Yes, indeed
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