November 17, 2023 • 41 mins
In this episode, Jason, Chris, and Andrew welcome guest, Amanda Perino, Executive
Director from the Rails Foundation. Today, they discuss their experiences at Rails
World, touching on the importance of community enthusiasm and the benefits of in-
person events. Amanda shares how the Rails Foundation coordinated Rails World and
managed feedback, with a special mention of the EventStack team. They highlight the
custom design elements of the conference and the speaker experience. Amanda
emphasizes the significance of having a strong team, and they discuss the decision to
host the next Rails World 2024 in Toronto and the potential for future rotations to diverse
regions. There’s also a conversation about the importance of communal spaces for
networking at conferences, and they touch on documentation improvements and the
need for technically knowledgeable contributors.
Honeybadger is an application health monitoring tool built by developers for developers.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
This is remote, ruby have you any remote ideas to the
meaning of the word.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Andrew, glad you could join us for the second one
, good morning.
Good morning, I was servedbreakfast this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I feel good now.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Who did you get from the airport?
See frozen.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh, I thought that was a long pause.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I thought I just didn't want to answer.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I was like are they all just staring at me?
Why are they still staring atme?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Ask who did you get from the airport?
And it was just like youlooking into our souls.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Good, I'm going to leave it that way.
A friend of mine yeah, whatfriend.
A friend of mine, jason?
I have other friends.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I don't believe you, I didn't know if maybe your mom
was in town.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Okay, well, I know I drove the airport and then I
drove home, just so I could getlike a picture of like picking
up some from the airport.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
There it is.
How is your mom?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
All right.
Well, I'm glad you're here, andI'm also glad that Amanda is
here from the rail foundation,who not only has been tirelessly
working to put on an eventplaying, the next one and some
other initiatives we'll talkabout today, but also decided to
take time to come talk to us onremote Ruby.
Hello, amanda.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Thank you for having me again.
It's always fun to talk to youall, but also like together in
person, it's always great yeahthis is good, we're glad to have
you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So I think there's one obvious thing we could talk
about, which is Rails world andtype script.
Another freeze frame I look atit, but not ready for that.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Record scratch.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So yeah, I'd love to hear, kind of first maybe how
you thought Rails world went.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
The funny thing about Rails world is, for me, it's
still going on.
The videos are still coming out.
I just pushed the blog postlive.
There's people to pay, stillthings to ship, so I'm still
kind of in the thick of it.
It's got a long tail afterwardsbut I think it's almost done.
But as far as the onsiteexperience, I had a really good
(02:07):
time.
That's like the long and shortof it.
I had a fantastic time and itwas good to see so many people,
so many enthusiastic peopletogether, just vibing.
That's kind of what I felt.
How did you all experience it?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, you go to a conference and come back home
and you're like, oh my gosh, I'mso glad to be part of this
community and just so energized.
I need this on a regular basis.
If you ever feel like I'mgetting burnt out or whatever, I
can go to a conference and thenit just cures a lot of that.
Or I'm like look at all thiscool stuff everybody's doing.
(02:42):
It's just so nice.
Everybody's so friendly andconstructive and everything.
It's just a wonderful group ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And one of the things I noticed when going through
the photos that I shared thephoto with the three of you in
the podcast, the BuzzsproutPodcast booth today, because it
also hit me.
The core team, for instance,was on site and they were having
dinner.
These are things that we all doremotely, but when you do it in
person together, it just addsthis different dynamic.
So I'm so glad that in personevents are back.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, we had a recording for that and we
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, that was our first time having all three of
us doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
That's wild.
Recording together in the samething.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Oh, that's great We've recorded separately
together, but never all three ofus.
So, shout out Buzzsprout,because that was such a cool
setup.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yeah, we just need a fan or air conditioning.
Next time Was it worth it.
It was a nice little saunaexperience with each other, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I was a little worried about that.
I actually thought it was goingto be smaller so that it would
only be one on one.
So I was really happy when itarrived and it was a four person
meeting space.
But yeah, I guess it did get alittle toasty out there.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
It was the perfect size.
It was a great size.
There's plenty of room and wedidn't feel cramped or anything,
and for as loud as it was, withpeople talking around us you
heard when we were recordingduring the final happy hour
thing, you heard the mumblingand stuff around, but it was
part of the experience though,so it was really awesome we
(04:10):
loved it.
It was cool.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So the challenge will be to figure out because that
was a company who events stack,found that actual space.
I said I want something likethis and they found the booth.
But it was company who sellsthose to offices.
They weren't prepared to rentor ship it somewhere and then
take it back.
They were a little bit like wedon't do this, so being able to
find that in Toronto is going tobe a challenge too.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I think you're going to end up like a Formula one
team with the stuff you shipbetween conferences and stuff.
Podcast booths air conditionerseparate sauna room.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
We'll still want that experience.
Raise the standards.
Like I'm not going to podcastin person unless I'm in the
house.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Don't roll out of bed .
Yeah, one podcast booth, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
He won't even roll out of bed for our own recording
.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Hey, I'm here yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
This is the first one we've done today.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
When we're thinking about the feedback.
I love feedback after an event,so I'm going through it and
everybody on site will say, hey,this is great, this is great to
your face.
But they feel more comfortablegiving negative feedback
privately, which makes sense.
You don't want to stomp onanybody's flower garden, so even
this is a testament to thiscommunity.
I think Even the negativefeedback is packaged so kindly
(05:26):
and nicely.
It's very much.
I don't want to be nitpicky,but it might be better if you
consider this in a few.
And it's just tiptoeing around,something like the music was
too loud and after party orsomething which was feedback.
So I don't know.
I'm reading it and I'm likeeverybody's so nice, even when
they're trying to give bad newsor negative feedback, which so
(05:47):
far it hasn't been anythingreally terribly negative.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's great, because that also sounds like all the
techniques I've learned intherapy for communicating Yours
is one of them actually, jason,yours was so kind, maybe this or
that.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
X Y Z.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
That's my years of therapy, so kind of along those
lines.
Chris asked this morning onTwitter or X or whatever the
hell you call it, if anyone hadany questions, and Emmanuel
Hafer had asked like Rails Worldwas an immense event Given its
magnitude.
How did you expertly handle thestress, seamlessly, coordinate
(06:21):
everything and yet still appearso composed and find time to
engage with all of us?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I have to say I've noticed I didn't get as many
questions as DHH.
I'm trying not to take thatpersonally.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Just kind of find some real controversial topics.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I had topics, but basically that was Thomas and
Jan from Event Stack doing allthe dirty work, like really
being the ones to if I had aquestion or a comment or this
doesn't look right.
I kind of offloaded on them andthey just ran with it and made
things happen behind the scenesso that I could really focus on
the people who were there theattendees, the speakers and
(06:57):
connecting and listening toeverybody's feedback about what
they won out of the foundation.
So all thanks goes to them forthat.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, and as a speaker, Thomas specifically was
like so great to work with.
I even had the little minorissue while we were there, like
just with a hotel and he waslike oh yeah, no, I got it Like,
I'll handle it yeah nothing wasever too difficult for them.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I even did this diva move where I was like I don't
like those flowers, please canwe remove them.
He was like they're gone.
And then they were gone andthen later he was like yeah,
they didn't belong there anywayand he took it completely off of
my mind and took that burden onhimself.
It was really nice.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That's awesome.
I had some questions.
There is stuff like when youwalk in, there's this huge cut
out that says we love rails, andthen to the left there's like a
whole board of history of rails.
Whose idea was that?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Those were both mine, trying to figure out what.
Yeah, I liked them as well.
I have to figure out what to dowith those big ass we heart
rails.
They're still somewhere at thevenue and I got to figure out
where they're going to gobecause they're a lot bigger
than I thought they were goingto be.
But for an event you want aphoto opportunity and something
for people to engage with, andthat's what those basically were
(08:05):
solving Engaging by puttingyour name on the wall and
becoming a part of the timelineof rails.
And then the photo of we heartrails which, when I walked in,
the people who had put it onstage, it said rails hearts me
or something.
And me and the volunteer Lordwere looking and we were like no
, and we turned the M upsidedown we heart rails and
(08:28):
everybody went oh yeah, thatmakes way more sense.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
That's hilarious.
I was admiring when we walk in.
It's like speakers names are ona special sign outside and
there's things that like halfcircle windows above the doors
to walk into the rooms.
That was a custom print too.
It was just like kind of blownaway by the.
I know how much time it takesto design and get those made
(08:52):
right.
And then just seeing all ofthose, I was like wow, you put
in so much attention to detailto get all this organized.
I know one of my feedbacks waslike when we talked a long time
ago, like we need place to justbump into people and talk, and
it was like so many good placesand between the talks to run
(09:13):
into people, or in the big roomwhere the sponsors were and
everything.
There was just so much.
We're just watching peoplecross paths and then stop and
say hi and everything and yeahmade it feel like it wasn't 700,
some people there or whateverfelt like it was 100 or 200,
felt like you could talk toeverybody that you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
When I'm going through the photos, I'm like
okay, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them,
talk to them, talk to them.
Chris, you were specifically indemand, oh my God.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
So both days I attempted to eat lunch and I
made it through the doors tothat room and that's as far as I
made it, and then lunch wasgone and just kept talking to
people the whole time.
And yeah, after winning theluminary award it was like
double the first day becauseeverybody wanted a picture with
(10:01):
me then.
But it was amazing Just meetingeverybody.
I told so many people it'sweird that I record a video
alone in my office, I clickpublish and maybe I'll see a
comment or two or whatever.
But that's as far as it goesand I don't actually get to
interact with people who watchour stuff.
And it's so nice to be at aconference and hear the stories
(10:25):
of I learned whatever from youand got a job and all that crazy
stuff.
So the conferences are likesuch a special and exhausting
thing.
But there are so many amazingpeople there that it was wild.
Yeah, I had such a good time.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I need to like.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I need to go for yeah , I was like do you want some
water?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
He was like bringing me water and stuff.
It was, yeah, he's amazing, butnext time I know I'll just
stand by the lunch lines andthen wait for it all day.
That's my plan.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think Andy Krull was my savior.
Certain points he saw that Iwas talking to a lot of people
and he'd come over and he'd gowhat do you need?
Or you come over, what do youneed?
White wine, please, but justshow up in my hand after that.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I was also going to go back a little bit to shout
out the production crew wasamazing.
The screen, that giant screenfor the backdrop of the slides
and everything was incredible.
But like as a speaker, havingthem like take your slides, walk
you through everything, giveyou a clicker, yada, yada, yada
(11:35):
yada, and then just feel superprepared and it just was so well
polished compared to otherconferences I've spoken at and
stuff.
I mean, I did a workshoppreviously and we walk in the
room.
There's nobody there.
We have to figure out how toturn on the microphones and all
that stuff ourselves and connectour laptop and whatever.
We just airdrop the slides tothem and then boom, it's done.
(11:57):
It was wonderful, it was sogood.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So the person behind that, the main spider in that
web, is Anka.
She's a friend of mine and Iknow her because we worked on
Hashikov at my last companytogether and I know the touch
that she brings is really.
She's mostly behind the scenesand you see the, for instance,
the two stage managers, emileand Paul, who are the ones like
helping Mike you up and tellingyou when to go on stage and how
(12:21):
the clicker works.
But behind that is Anka andSimona and just want to go with
them everywhere because theybring that production value and
they bring that polish.
And I would really like RailsWorld to be one of the best
speaking experiences, not justin our industry but baby tech
Like.
People want to speak there andthey want to share their stories
and speak to the Railscommunity.
And that has a lot to do withit getting the right people with
(12:44):
you, working with youconsistently.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I was already really honored, excited to speak at
Rails World, like just from whatwe literally knew about it.
But like after actually gettingthere and speaking, like I'm
already like how can I startworking on a proposal that can
get accepted next year?
Because it was really I don'tknow.
It was a really good experience.
Like Chris said, like the AVexperience was good.
(13:07):
You and Thomas communicated sowell with us.
I felt valued being there andthat also makes you, as a
speaker, want to do a reallygood job too, like you want to
live up to it.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
There are some things I think we could do better,
like preparing you a little bitmore, for if you give your
speaker slides to backstage orwhatever you want to call it
from the house actually, thenyou'll be able to see your notes
and use the clicker and you canbe more engaged with the
audience.
And I think we didn't do thatcreative a job with that, but
we'll know for next time toprepare people better.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, I didn't realize that, because I just
used to like putting my laptopon a stand, plugging HDMI in and
clicking, and so one of myjokes is oh, like I'm giving the
wrong presentation, so like Irecorded myself the Laravel
thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so like Irecorded on the airplane a video
of me like closing keynote andthen it's oh, that's the LaraCon
(13:58):
slide deck and opening theRails world slide deck, with the
assumption that I would just gowalk over there and look like
I'm like actually closing myslides and stuff.
And so I just left the video inand I liked the joke and
afterwards I walked off stage.
I can't remember the guy whowas helping back there but he
said you confuse my colleague,because they were like how is he
(14:18):
doing this?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Like how is he?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
closing keynote.
And they were like, oh, it'sjust a video, yeah, at least
they didn't wipe it off, thisthing, really quick Right.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And it was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, I took a picture behind stage because I
was just so enamored with thishuge LED wall.
I'm used to like let's throw a1080 projector up and put a
black curtain underneath, so itwas cool.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
It's a big stage.
But yeah, the number onefeedback was you couldn't see
the bottom.
Third, I had a panic attackwhen somebody in Slack said, hey
, speakers, change your slides.
I was like, no, never ask thespeakers on the same day to
change your slides.
It's easier, because it's anLED screen, to just lift it up,
but I think sometimes it didn'tstay up Like they made it big
again.
So that's really interesting,useful feedback to go to every
(15:05):
corner of the room and make sureyou can see the whole thing and
also share with speakersbeforehand what it's going to
look like.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, and I think the problem specifically with that
was that it was too low but youprobably wouldn't even have been
able to tell, because it'sbecause the people in front of
you you couldn't see.
So even if you had gone toevery corner, it was still like
by the time you sat down andthere's.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, the head people in front of you, that's when
you start lifting up yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I had some text low on the slides and I was like,
well, whatever, they can alwayswatch the video afterwards to
catch what they missed orsomething.
But the good thing is like thevolume too loud during the happy
hour and the text too low orwhatever, like they're super
duper minor things that, yeah,little annoying in the moment
(15:46):
maybe, but fixable and notshowstoppers or anything Like
everything felt like it wentsuper duper smooth.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, it was surprisingly smooth on our side
as well, like there wasdefinitely little fires to put
out Understand that there wasdrilling in the building during,
I think, iriana and Azarovastalk.
That's something the venuecould have maybe not done.
You know they had full controlover that of all days.
They wanted to drill whensomebody I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That's funny.
Overall, my wife's not adeveloper.
This is her first time at aconference with me and she was
like blown away.
She's helped me put onSoutheast Ruby.
Like she is the one who likebasically did all the real work
for three years and so she, like, at a much lower level,
understands the amount of workinvolved.
So she could really appreciateall the work you and Thomas and
everyone did.
(16:32):
Cool so that.
So that leads, I think, toanother good question, which is
about next year's why Torontoand what factors influence the
decision to choose this locationfor the next Rails world.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I saw that and that's a really great question.
North America, let's say, isarguably the biggest marker for
Rails, so we knew for sure thatwe eventually wanted to have an
event there, but it was justeasier to start in Europe, which
hadn't really had.
Well, this year had a lot ofevents in our space, but a Rails
specific conference of thissize maybe not.
So we started in Europe andnext year we knew we wanted to
(17:07):
go to North America and then,when I started the search,
there's all sorts of factorsthat you have to keep in mind.
Months you want to go to,what's the weather going to be
like?
Is it accessible as a city?
Are there big holidays going on?
Is another conference happeningLike I couldn't do, for
instance, san Diego, because SanDiego just happened with
RubyConf, for instance.
So you want to kind of givespace to cities that people have
(17:29):
gotten to as well in the recentpast, and what was important
this time was somewhere in NorthAmerica.
So we're easily accessible inNorth America, especially, for
instance, south America comingup, which would have been harder
to come to Europe, but Europewas great for maybe, north
Americans and people like NorthAfrica, for instance.
So, trying to get as much bangfor your buck in each location,
(17:51):
or at least as many people ineasily.
So we were looking at NewOrleans, miami, boston, houston,
chicago and Toronto.
And Toronto was my favoritefrom the get-go because, on top
of all these other factors thatyou're looking at, the weather
is going to be great in themonth that we want to go, which
wasn't the case for Miamihurricane season.
(18:13):
But the venue the venues for meare almost everything Like we
talked about this before lasttime I was on your show.
It adds something to an eventto have a special venue, and
that's kind of what I waslooking for.
So, on top of all these things,there was very few places that
fit the bill, and Toronto wasjust a shoe-in when I saw the
location, the venue itself.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
And because I'm been there.
So that was the other factor,right.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Exactly, and then I had to act.
It did shut that off.
There it is.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
It only took 27 minutes for it to come back to.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I'm excited to go to Toronto for my first time.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I have to warn you it's going to present challenges
that we didn't have inAmsterdam Logistical challenges.
The city is a completelydifferent vibe.
It's bigger city than Amsterdam, less accessible to get around.
The hotel prices are just ashigh, especially like the time
that we want to go isoverlapping a little bit with
the Toronto International FilmFestival.
(19:04):
So there's definitely problems.
I think what we can expectmoving forward is we're going to
try different things each time,but keeping a certain standard
of what we want and let the cityand the venue sort of shape the
rest of the experience.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I had a ton of fun in Amsterdam.
I'm going to say that had neverbeen in Europe before.
No, I'm just saying from theperspective of I like the idea
of switching it around, notbeing in the United States the
entire time.
Really enjoyed getting thatexperience to travel out there.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I just wish.
I had more time to hang outwith everybody, like everybody's
in my city, and I didn't haveany time or energy when it
finally came down to get out ofmy house when I wasn't at the
venue.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yeah Well, like you said, the conference still isn't
over for you yet.
Yeah so, yeah.
So we'll propose, like Fiji andHawaii and other places we want
to go sort of vacation to theMaldives, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I really like the Canada location, though, because
I can't think of a Rubyconference in Canada in my
tenure as a Rails developer.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
A couple of days before we announced it, I saw
somebody on Twitter saying, hey,there hasn't been any sort of
Ruby event and I'm going to doit in Toronto.
And I was like, dude, just waita couple of days, it's coming.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill.
I just can't say anything.
Yeah, so you just reply withthe two eyes?
Emoji.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, that's my number one.
Go to.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
I just want to take a second to thank our sponsor,
honey Badger.
Monitoring, like webdevelopment, can be complicated.
There are tons of tools andtechniques, but you just want to
know that your app is up andyour customers are happy.
When your customers encounter aproblem, you need clear,
actionable intelligence, notwalls of charts and reams of
logs to tail.
That's why they built HoneyBadger, the monitoring tool.
(20:49):
We've always wanted A toolthat's there when you need it
and gets out of your way whenyou don't, so you can keep
shipping, know when criticalerrors occur and which customers
are affected, respond instantlywhen your systems go down,
improve the health of yoursystems over time and fix
problems before your customerscan report them.
I know from personal experience.
(21:09):
I've fixed bugs when they'veshown up in Honey Badger and
then emailed the customer to letthem know.
Hey, I think I saw you get a500 error, I've fixed it and I
just wanted to let you know.
You can try again, and it blowsthose customers' minds to see
that they didn't even have achance to report the bug to you.
It's wild.
They love it.
Honey Badger is the applicationhealth monitoring tool built for
(21:32):
you, the developer who caresabout a quality product and
happy customers.
Start monitoring today athoneybadgerio.
It's free for small teams andsetup takes as little as five
minutes.
Once again, that'shoneybadgerio.
So are there things that youknow you can make simpler for
yourself to organize this?
(21:53):
Okay, first one's done, learneda ton of stuff.
We can just kind of make this astandard for every time or
something.
Are there things that you canreuse that you've now feel like
you've solved, or are you goingto try to redo it and make it
unique every time?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
It can be fully unique every time.
I want to have some sort ofconsistency so people know what
to expect and know how Railsworld differentiates from other
events in our space.
I think that's important.
What that kind of blueprintlooks like, yeah, I just need to
keep the vibe cool, which to meis venue and good music.
What we didn't have actuallythis time, that I think I want
(22:30):
to try to solve for next time insome capacity, is like a
communal space for people tomeet outside of conference hours
.
I was hoping the speaker hotelwould be that, but really wasn't
in the end.
I think a really cool hotel,but possibly a little bit too
far off the beaten track for therest of the attendees.
So, finding a hotel or somesort of bar that we could just
(22:54):
crash at and, if I'm beinghonest, in RailsConf that I went
to in Atlanta, talking toeverybody in the hotel bar was
one of the best experiences.
Yeah, it's the people you meet.
It's where I met Dave Paola andthat's how the conference app
idea came to be.
It's where ideas happen and wedidn't have the space for that
because Amsterdam is so small tocreate that somewhere, but
(23:14):
North America has a lot morespace and a lot more options for
that.
So I think that's something I'dlike to add, and I don't know
if we'll be able to keep it ifwe, for instance, come back to
Europe at a certain point.
But that's something I'd liketo try to solve for, to add and
do different.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, that's a really good point, because pretty much
every RailsConf I remember wejust crash at the same bar every
night.
It was either the hotel bar or,like a similar location, like a
different hotels bar.
There was a rooftop bar that westayed at a different hotel one
time and there was always like50 people up there from the
(23:51):
conference.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, it was, it's a nice oyster bar.
Oh yeah, lots of oysters therethat week.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I think that's a good thing.
The conference experiencedoesn't end at the end of the
last talk of the day, in a wayit just begins again.
But it's a whole different sortof experience for the evening
and stuff.
But we ended up in the hotelbar talking to several people
multiple times and even over theweekend because not everybody
(24:19):
left right away.
We stayed a couple extra daysand we're talking to the
Buzzsprout guys in the morningone morning or whatever.
Yeah, that's even more funbecause it's oh, you're still
around.
You get some more one-on-onetime that during the chaos of
the conference.
You get to talk to a lot ofpeople, but it may not be as
long as you want.
(24:39):
Our excuse has been like comeon the podcast and we'll we have
a whole hour with you then.
There's just so much of that.
That's even just like theexperience outside of the
conference you have to plan, butyou would never think about
that if this was your first timeplanning an event, and it's
crazy how much goes into this.
So I want to just give you ahuge shout out for everything
(25:00):
you did, because I know peoplewho are like well, what the hell
is the Rails Foundation doing?
And it's well you knew how muchgoes into an event like this,
you would understand.
But that's probably the beautyof what you've done is it's, as
an attendee or a speaker, soeasy to just experience and we
don't have to deal with anything.
(25:21):
And you've already taken careof so much and made it special.
And I mean showing up in thehotel and we've got all of our
speaker goodies a backpack andshirts and whatever, and all
that was like oh, this is justspecial, so it was just such a
great experience.
but there's a stupid amount ofwork that goes into making it.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And the thing is the Rails Foundation isn't just set
up to put on this event.
There are other things that wewant to do.
So the whole time when Railsworld was getting closer and
closer, I'd like you're tryingto put another, let's say, like
ball in the air fordocumentation or something.
But it's just gets so pressingan event and all encompassing in
those last couple weeks thateverything else went on hold.
(26:04):
So I like, the closer it got,the more I was like it's almost
done, it's almost done, it'salmost done.
But I really enjoyed it on site.
But there's so much we want todo.
I'm excited to change focus.
Fun to that for a little while.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Well, let's talk about the documentation.
I want to get it kind of likenext real foundation.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
So we have these two job vacancies open right now One
is for UX designer and one isfor a technical writer, and the
way we see it is, there's a lotof small little projects that
can become this great bigdocumentation project.
There's like you putting thenavigation bar across all the
properties, that it's consistentwhen you go from one to the
other.
Fixing with the guides looklike, updating into a more
(26:45):
modern look and feel, creating apath for I keep calling it a
learn path, but like abeginner's path on like where
would a new beginner tutorial go?
What would a new beginnertutorial look like?
And then where would it go onthe website, and decoupling it,
maybe from the installationguide, which I think should be
completely different.
This is how you install it,that this is what you need to
(27:06):
learn.
So there's all these smalllittle fixes that we're going to
start to tackle with the helpof a UX designer and probably
more than one technical writer,because I'd also like, for
instance, case studies of howthese companies are using Rails
and what challenges did you faceand how did you overcome them
for the marketing side.
And then, of course, fixing,going back and seeing where are
the holes in the guides andwhere can we update the
(27:29):
information or is it stillrelevant?
Just look at it with new eyesas well as all the beginner
stuff.
So I see these as maybe being acouple of technical writers
that we work with over time, andmaybe one solid UX designer.
So my next steps are goingthrough all of the applications
that came through there's somegood ones, I have to say and
then having those discussionsand setting expectations there
(27:52):
and just kind of starting inlittle bits and pieces to make
sure that we all work together.
We have like jive well as ateam and then people will
actually start to see morethings happen in the
documentation space.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And then you got a fine place to put the DHH
Leonardo da Vinci somewhere likeon the homepage front and
center or something.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Nothing will convince me that he didn't know what he
was doing when he put that imageup there.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, it was too similar.
It was hilarious.
Yeah, I'm looking forward tothis.
It's funny how I'm suresomebody new can come to the
guides and be like, oh, thisdesign looks kind of old or
whatever and that might put themoff.
And they might be like, oh,maybe I will double check this
other thing or whatever.
And it's a matter of keeping upwith the times and making sure
(28:40):
that it's appealing.
And I think the every Davidkeynote that he gives is
basically a reminder of like,why are you here?
You're here because Railsallows super small teams to
accomplish enormous things, andhaving the marketing and stuff
as a reminder of that is likelook, get rid of the complexity.
(29:00):
Look what you can do with oneor two or three people.
They built Shopify and GitHuband yada, yada, yada.
There is so much you can dowith this.
People have forgotten about that.
They've kind of just went oh,what are the big companies do?
And they all care about allthis complexity.
So I guess we should dig intothe weeds there too.
(29:21):
And it's like you don't have toand it's a it'll be nice to
have that, as here's therefreshing thing, which is funny
because it's always been thesame, but people have forgotten.
That's important, and bringingit back and be like, hey, one
developer, renaissancedevelopers or whatever, just a
reminder of that.
And then all the things of theguides is just.
(29:44):
It seems like you've got quitea big task in front of you, not
to mention another conference.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And they're conference too.
I spent a lot of time thinkinghow would you even tackle this,
and I think if I didn't have theadvice of the board I'm going
to give them a lot of credithere I would have sort of
decided to kind of take sometime and start from scratch and
build from the ground up, afterlike kind of presenting that to
them.
They're like or little bits ofpieces over time and like
(30:11):
constantly make little changes,and I was like oh yeah, that's
another way to go about it.
So like approaching this issomething that they've helped a
lot with, and I reallyappreciate that, because I
haven't done this before and ofcourse, the people that we work
with might not necessarily havedone it on this capacity yet,
and it's a lot less intimidatingto go okay, let's fix the
navigation bar.
Okay, what does tutorialtemplate look like?
(30:33):
Okay, now, it's just makes itlittle bite size chunks and it's
a lot less intimidating now.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
How are you going to juggle some of the stuff that's
like very technical, like theguides, for example, where it's
like a guide on the railsinitialization process still
says work in progress.
Be nice if none of those saidwork in progress.
Yeah, but that's somebody who'sgoing to be finishing that is
going to have to be prettyknowledgeable about rails
(31:02):
internals or whatever to finishthat, which is probably why it
still says work in progress.
But I was curious are you goingto be hiring developer
technical riders that are likerails developers, or do they
need to be to know rails?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I would say the bigger requirement there if it
was like one or the other, wouldbe a rails developer, because
you can tweak your writing, butit's a lot harder to suddenly
learn rails.
And don't forget as well thatthe rails core and issues and
triage team are behind this, sothey'll have eyes on it as well
and it can help kind of steer orshape if it's not going in the
(31:40):
right way or if they think, okay, that's not the best way to
portray it.
It'll be a lot of cooks in thisparticular kitchen, I think, so
we'll see how that goes, but Ithink everybody's keen to see it
being moved in the rightdirection.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah.
So I want to encourage anybodyif you want to help on this and
you don't think you're fit as atechnical rider or whatever and
you feel like you're more of arail stuff, you should still
apply, because that is exactlywhat we need for these guides
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And all sorts of different writing that we will
need, like the use cases, socialmedia posts, tutorials, like
these are different kinds oftechnical writing that if your
skill is more, for instance,teaching other people and
putting things in layman's terms, then possibly picking up the
technical writing for tutorialswould be better versus the
(32:31):
guides, which are highlytechnical and very specific.
So we do need several differentstyles of technical writer.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Yeah, speaking of the social media, I think that's
been a help too.
I assume it's you behind mostof the tweets on there, but it's
nice to see the rails Twitteris active or whatever, because
it's kind of been like hey,there's a new release, or
whatever in the past and likeget a lot of releases or haven't
.
Hopefully we'll get moreconsistent basis, but just a
(32:59):
constant sort of here's newthings, here's what we need,
here's what's happening, here'srails world talks and using that
as more marketing.
It's been a wonderful to seethat, because those are all the
little things that I feel, likeyou know as a Rails developer
who's been around for a longtime.
If those things get quiet, westart to worry is rails dead or
(33:20):
whatever?
But if it's active, then wedon't have any doubts of there's
a future here.
What we're doing matters andall that, and we can get
involved too.
So I just wanted to shout outthat too.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Thanks.
That's one of the good thingsabout events it gives you a lot
to talk about, like so manytalking points, especially the
programs that kind of lead intoit, like the CFP are getting
juniors to create the website orthe conference app.
So to have that kind ofconstant, steady stream of news
is really nice, just to showpeople that we are working on
(33:53):
things and Rails is around andthere's all these people
involved in Rails in differentways, and not just the code base
but also the event, forinstance, that's the title of
this episode Exe-Vad-It,exe-vad-it.
Do we know yet what the verb isfor Twitter, now that it's
called ex?
Is it exing it?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I think we're all like have decided that we just
don't care.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
We just don't go there.
I call it Twitter.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, I still call it tweeting.
I'll say post sometimes LikeI'm, but I mostly just it'll
probably change names again in amonth, so just along for the
ride.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I do have a question for you.
It kind of takes us back alittle bit, but not all the way.
I want to know what it was likeworking with the Agency of
Learning on the conference app,because I really enjoyed like
using that.
That was super cool.
So I'm just curious, kind ofwhat that experience was like
for you.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I'm glad you asked that because I could talk about
them with the correct name asmuch as possible.
They were so enthusiastic towork with.
As I said, it was being on sitein Atlanta and having a
conversation with Dave Paolathat sparked the idea later,
when I couldn't find aconference app built on Rails.
So when I reached out to himright away, he was like this is
(35:02):
great, this can be fun, we cando so much with this, let's do
it.
And they put the team together,and Shawmi and Eric were just
as excited.
I love easily excitable peoplebecause the enthusiasm is so
contagious.
So they came with ideas andalso, of course, cody and Daniel
as well, and Dave and Katya forUX design.
Everybody came with ideas.
(35:23):
So it was really nice becauseif one person has one idea and
then puts it together, it'll beokay.
But the polish that comes froma lot of people working together
and all these ideas sharing theideas together is really
special, and that's kind of whatit was like with working with
them Very enthusiastic, verygo-getter, very quick, jump on a
problem and fix it and come upwith solutions.
(35:45):
So I can't say enough goodthings about the agency of
learning and the whole process.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Well, I was talking to Eric Halberson Jason and I
met him at a conference lastyear, I guess but I was talking
to him about that experience andhe was like he talked about
like such a positive thing and Iwas like that's really cool,
that like one of the first Railsprojects that you get to work
on is for Rails world and yougot such an amazing experience,
(36:11):
Like apparently you are a greatQA person, very kind QA person.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I feel like I kept going just one more thing, do
you mind?
Just one more thing.
But they were always like noproblem, yeah, yeah, good idea,
let's do it, let's do it.
So if I was playing the role ofclient, I was one of those
clients, or the kind that's likeI have an idea.
Oh no, not another idea.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
That's good, though, because the experience of
learning to code is I have toworry about.
Can I make it work period first, and then it's thinking about
how do I actually make it feelnice and work smoothly, where
that's always.
If you're in their shoes andyou're like learning Rails, your
problem is how do I even makeit functional period?
(36:54):
And then, getting that feedbackis oh, this is interesting.
I wish that I had thought ofmaking it work that way, because
then I could have just built itright.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
The first attempt, or whatever.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I would have had some insights on.
I would have designed itdifferently.
But it was fun talking to Ericat the conference.
We paired after the conferencebecause he was like you know
what I realized the first talkhappens and we had say of the
start time and the duration inthe database but we didn't have
the end time, which meant thatwe couldn't query properly for
(37:27):
the end time.
So as soon as the event startsit goes into the past and I was
like, yeah see, those are thelittle gotchas that like you
have to experience the app andstuff, but we talked through
several different variations ofhow to work through that and
whatever, but I think it wasawesome to have them featured on
(37:48):
stage and everything.
I think it was super specialfor them.
Having the MCs from Lowaggin,miriam and Dairy Dairy yeah,
that was so cool too, gettingpeople who are in the community
that may not be speaking orwhatever, but giving them
opportunities to be a part ofthe event makes it so special
too, I think.
(38:08):
So I assume you're planning ondoing more of this stuff for the
next ones.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, because.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
I want you to.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, it's really nice to.
I'm constantly thinking aboutwhat happens when we all retire.
Who is that next generation?
Who's going to pick up thepodcast and who's going to be
creating the content and who'sgoing to be coming to the events
and speaking at the events?
These are things we need tosort of cultivate now, and the
only way to do that is to bringpeople into the fold now and
kind of, when people come out ofboot camps, bridge that gap,
(38:38):
become from boot camp graduateto solid community member, and
creating opportunities for themin that way is something I think
a lot of us can do in differentways and I know a lot of people
are like Dave Palla and theAgency of Learning are doing.
But any more ideas?
I'd love to hear if people aredoing that in the communities so
we can share and let othercompanies figure out how to do
(39:00):
that.
I know it's not easy.
It does take some commitmentand to work with junior
developers and make space forjunior developers, but I think
it'll take a group effort.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Yeah, it's investing in your future, so it's a good
thing to do.
Well, we are almost at the topof the hour.
You guys have any morequestions, or?
Amanda?
Do you have anything you wantto share?
I know you've got a couple ofjob listings available for the
technical writer and thedesigner.
Anything else?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I think one of the biggest things would be we are
going to start sharing thesponsorship prospectus for Rails
World 2024 in Toronto soon.
So if companies are interestedin sponsoring a North American
event, please get in touch atsponsors at rubionrailsorg.
And thank you all for being onsite, doing your thing on site
and being like the worm face ofthe community worm faces.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to do it.
The Rails World wouldn't havebeen the same without Andrew
Mason there.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
And he's rocking the swag now.
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
I had to go Rails later on earlier.
I used to imagine Andrew hasn'ttaken that off since Amsterdam.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I barely have taken AppSignal off.
I also haven't unpacked fromToronto, which was just after.
Oh, one last story before I go.
I think, Chris, you canappreciate this.
The day after Rails World, whenthe vibe was still high online
and in slack, I came home and Ithought that my dog was on his
way out.
I think I thought he wasshedding the mortal coil and I
(40:31):
had to leave for Toronto on theMonday.
So I was like, oh no, it's abad time.
And I was looking at him likebuddy, don't do this, this is
bad timing or whatever.
And I changed all my flightsthat I would go to Toronto and
then be out again after a day.
And I brought him to the vet acouple of hours before my flight
.
They ran some tests.
He wasn't only not doing poorly, he was doing better than
(40:52):
before.
All of his tests were like inthe positive and I was like I
just changed my flight, I'mmissing a wedding for you, Just
because I was like he can't, notnow, please don't now.
So I was just sobbing on theSaturday after Rails World.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Wow, that's good, very good news.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, yeah, he's still around.
He's still kicking.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
I mean we missed him at the conference.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I thought about bringing him out the weekend
after.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
It might have been a lot that would have piqued it
for me.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
That might have been too much for me.
Finally, everything I've needed.
Thank you so much foreverything.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Thanks for having me on again and I will see you all
next in Toronto.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yes, sounds good, can't wait.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
We got to start working on our talks.
This is remote, ruby have you any remote ideas to the
meaning of the word.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Andrew, glad you could join us for the second one
, good morning.
Good morning, I was servedbreakfast this morning.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I feel good now.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Who did you get from the airport?
See frozen.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Oh, I thought that was a long pause.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I thought I just didn't want to answer.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I was like are they all just staring at me?
Why are they still staring atme?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Ask who did you get from the airport?
And it was just like youlooking into our souls.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Good, I'm going to leave it that way.
A friend of mine yeah, whatfriend.
A friend of mine, jason?
I have other friends.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I don't believe you, I didn't know if maybe your mom
was in town.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Okay, well, I know I drove the airport and then I
drove home, just so I could getlike a picture of like picking
up some from the airport.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
There it is.
How is your mom?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
All right.
Well, I'm glad you're here, andI'm also glad that Amanda is
here from the rail foundation,who not only has been tirelessly
working to put on an eventplaying, the next one and some
other initiatives we'll talkabout today, but also decided to
take time to come talk to us onremote Ruby.
Hello, amanda.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Thank you for having me again.
It's always fun to talk to youall, but also like together in
person, it's always great yeahthis is good, we're glad to have
you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So I think there's one obvious thing we could talk
about, which is Rails world andtype script.
Another freeze frame I look atit, but not ready for that.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Record scratch.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So yeah, I'd love to hear, kind of first maybe how
you thought Rails world went.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
The funny thing about Rails world is, for me, it's
still going on.
The videos are still coming out.
I just pushed the blog postlive.
There's people to pay, stillthings to ship, so I'm still
kind of in the thick of it.
It's got a long tail afterwardsbut I think it's almost done.
But as far as the onsiteexperience, I had a really good
(02:07):
time.
That's like the long and shortof it.
I had a fantastic time and itwas good to see so many people,
so many enthusiastic peopletogether, just vibing.
That's kind of what I felt.
How did you all experience it?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, you go to a conference and come back home
and you're like, oh my gosh, I'mso glad to be part of this
community and just so energized.
I need this on a regular basis.
If you ever feel like I'mgetting burnt out or whatever, I
can go to a conference and thenit just cures a lot of that.
Or I'm like look at all thiscool stuff everybody's doing.
(02:42):
It's just so nice.
Everybody's so friendly andconstructive and everything.
It's just a wonderful group ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And one of the things I noticed when going through
the photos that I shared thephoto with the three of you in
the podcast, the BuzzsproutPodcast booth today, because it
also hit me.
The core team, for instance,was on site and they were having
dinner.
These are things that we all doremotely, but when you do it in
person together, it just addsthis different dynamic.
So I'm so glad that in personevents are back.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Yeah, we had a recording for that and we
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, that was our first time having all three of
us doing it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
That's wild.
Recording together in the samething.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Oh, that's great We've recorded separately
together, but never all three ofus.
So, shout out Buzzsprout,because that was such a cool
setup.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Yeah, we just need a fan or air conditioning.
Next time Was it worth it.
It was a nice little saunaexperience with each other, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I was a little worried about that.
I actually thought it was goingto be smaller so that it would
only be one on one.
So I was really happy when itarrived and it was a four person
meeting space.
But yeah, I guess it did get alittle toasty out there.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
It was the perfect size.
It was a great size.
There's plenty of room and wedidn't feel cramped or anything,
and for as loud as it was, withpeople talking around us you
heard when we were recordingduring the final happy hour
thing, you heard the mumblingand stuff around, but it was
part of the experience though,so it was really awesome we
(04:10):
loved it.
It was cool.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So the challenge will be to figure out because that
was a company who events stack,found that actual space.
I said I want something likethis and they found the booth.
But it was company who sellsthose to offices.
They weren't prepared to rentor ship it somewhere and then
take it back.
They were a little bit like wedon't do this, so being able to
find that in Toronto is going tobe a challenge too.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
I think you're going to end up like a Formula one
team with the stuff you shipbetween conferences and stuff.
Podcast booths air conditionerseparate sauna room.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
We'll still want that experience.
Raise the standards.
Like I'm not going to podcastin person unless I'm in the
house.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Don't roll out of bed .
Yeah, one podcast booth, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
He won't even roll out of bed for our own recording
.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Hey, I'm here yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
This is the first one we've done today.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
When we're thinking about the feedback.
I love feedback after an event,so I'm going through it and
everybody on site will say, hey,this is great, this is great to
your face.
But they feel more comfortablegiving negative feedback
privately, which makes sense.
You don't want to stomp onanybody's flower garden, so even
this is a testament to thiscommunity.
I think Even the negativefeedback is packaged so kindly
(05:26):
and nicely.
It's very much.
I don't want to be nitpicky,but it might be better if you
consider this in a few.
And it's just tiptoeing around,something like the music was
too loud and after party orsomething which was feedback.
So I don't know.
I'm reading it and I'm likeeverybody's so nice, even when
they're trying to give bad newsor negative feedback, which so
(05:47):
far it hasn't been anythingreally terribly negative.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's great, because that also sounds like all the
techniques I've learned intherapy for communicating Yours
is one of them actually, jason,yours was so kind, maybe this or
that.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
X Y Z.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
That's my years of therapy, so kind of along those
lines.
Chris asked this morning onTwitter or X or whatever the
hell you call it, if anyone hadany questions, and Emmanuel
Hafer had asked like Rails Worldwas an immense event Given its
magnitude.
How did you expertly handle thestress, seamlessly, coordinate
(06:21):
everything and yet still appearso composed and find time to
engage with all of us?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I have to say I've noticed I didn't get as many
questions as DHH.
I'm trying not to take thatpersonally.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Just kind of find some real controversial topics.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I had topics, but basically that was Thomas and
Jan from Event Stack doing allthe dirty work, like really
being the ones to if I had aquestion or a comment or this
doesn't look right.
I kind of offloaded on them andthey just ran with it and made
things happen behind the scenesso that I could really focus on
the people who were there theattendees, the speakers and
(06:57):
connecting and listening toeverybody's feedback about what
they won out of the foundation.
So all thanks goes to them forthat.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Yeah, and as a speaker, Thomas specifically was
like so great to work with.
I even had the little minorissue while we were there, like
just with a hotel and he waslike oh yeah, no, I got it Like,
I'll handle it yeah nothing wasever too difficult for them.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I even did this diva move where I was like I don't
like those flowers, please canwe remove them.
He was like they're gone.
And then they were gone andthen later he was like yeah,
they didn't belong there anywayand he took it completely off of
my mind and took that burden onhimself.
It was really nice.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That's awesome.
I had some questions.
There is stuff like when youwalk in, there's this huge cut
out that says we love rails, andthen to the left there's like a
whole board of history of rails.
Whose idea was that?
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Those were both mine, trying to figure out what.
Yeah, I liked them as well.
I have to figure out what to dowith those big ass we heart
rails.
They're still somewhere at thevenue and I got to figure out
where they're going to gobecause they're a lot bigger
than I thought they were goingto be.
But for an event you want aphoto opportunity and something
for people to engage with, andthat's what those basically were
(08:05):
solving Engaging by puttingyour name on the wall and
becoming a part of the timelineof rails.
And then the photo of we heartrails which, when I walked in,
the people who had put it onstage, it said rails hearts me
or something.
And me and the volunteer Lordwere looking and we were like no
, and we turned the M upsidedown we heart rails and
(08:28):
everybody went oh yeah, thatmakes way more sense.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
That's hilarious.
I was admiring when we walk in.
It's like speakers names are ona special sign outside and
there's things that like halfcircle windows above the doors
to walk into the rooms.
That was a custom print too.
It was just like kind of blownaway by the.
I know how much time it takesto design and get those made
(08:52):
right.
And then just seeing all ofthose, I was like wow, you put
in so much attention to detailto get all this organized.
I know one of my feedbacks waslike when we talked a long time
ago, like we need place to justbump into people and talk, and
it was like so many good placesand between the talks to run
(09:13):
into people, or in the big roomwhere the sponsors were and
everything.
There was just so much.
We're just watching peoplecross paths and then stop and
say hi and everything and yeahmade it feel like it wasn't 700,
some people there or whateverfelt like it was 100 or 200,
felt like you could talk toeverybody that you wanted to.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
When I'm going through the photos, I'm like
okay, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them, talk to them,
talk to them, talk to them.
Chris, you were specifically indemand, oh my God.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
So both days I attempted to eat lunch and I
made it through the doors tothat room and that's as far as I
made it, and then lunch wasgone and just kept talking to
people the whole time.
And yeah, after winning theluminary award it was like
double the first day becauseeverybody wanted a picture with
(10:01):
me then.
But it was amazing Just meetingeverybody.
I told so many people it'sweird that I record a video
alone in my office, I clickpublish and maybe I'll see a
comment or two or whatever.
But that's as far as it goesand I don't actually get to
interact with people who watchour stuff.
And it's so nice to be at aconference and hear the stories
(10:25):
of I learned whatever from youand got a job and all that crazy
stuff.
So the conferences are likesuch a special and exhausting
thing.
But there are so many amazingpeople there that it was wild.
Yeah, I had such a good time.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I need to like.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I need to go for yeah , I was like do you want some
water?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
He was like bringing me water and stuff.
It was, yeah, he's amazing, butnext time I know I'll just
stand by the lunch lines andthen wait for it all day.
That's my plan.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think Andy Krull was my savior.
Certain points he saw that Iwas talking to a lot of people
and he'd come over and he'd gowhat do you need?
Or you come over, what do youneed?
White wine, please, but justshow up in my hand after that.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I was also going to go back a little bit to shout
out the production crew wasamazing.
The screen, that giant screenfor the backdrop of the slides
and everything was incredible.
But like as a speaker, havingthem like take your slides, walk
you through everything, giveyou a clicker, yada, yada, yada
(11:35):
yada, and then just feel superprepared and it just was so well
polished compared to otherconferences I've spoken at and
stuff.
I mean, I did a workshoppreviously and we walk in the
room.
There's nobody there.
We have to figure out how toturn on the microphones and all
that stuff ourselves and connectour laptop and whatever.
We just airdrop the slides tothem and then boom, it's done.
(11:57):
It was wonderful, it was sogood.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
So the person behind that, the main spider in that
web, is Anka.
She's a friend of mine and Iknow her because we worked on
Hashikov at my last companytogether and I know the touch
that she brings is really.
She's mostly behind the scenesand you see the, for instance,
the two stage managers, emileand Paul, who are the ones like
helping Mike you up and tellingyou when to go on stage and how
(12:21):
the clicker works.
But behind that is Anka andSimona and just want to go with
them everywhere because theybring that production value and
they bring that polish.
And I would really like RailsWorld to be one of the best
speaking experiences, not justin our industry but baby tech
Like.
People want to speak there andthey want to share their stories
and speak to the Railscommunity.
And that has a lot to do withit getting the right people with
(12:44):
you, working with youconsistently.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I was already really honored, excited to speak at
Rails World, like just from whatwe literally knew about it.
But like after actually gettingthere and speaking, like I'm
already like how can I startworking on a proposal that can
get accepted next year?
Because it was really I don'tknow.
It was a really good experience.
Like Chris said, like the AVexperience was good.
(13:07):
You and Thomas communicated sowell with us.
I felt valued being there andthat also makes you, as a
speaker, want to do a reallygood job too, like you want to
live up to it.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
There are some things I think we could do better,
like preparing you a little bitmore, for if you give your
speaker slides to backstage orwhatever you want to call it
from the house actually, thenyou'll be able to see your notes
and use the clicker and you canbe more engaged with the
audience.
And I think we didn't do thatcreative a job with that, but
we'll know for next time toprepare people better.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, I didn't realize that, because I just
used to like putting my laptopon a stand, plugging HDMI in and
clicking, and so one of myjokes is oh, like I'm giving the
wrong presentation, so like Irecorded myself the Laravel
thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so like Irecorded on the airplane a video
of me like closing keynote andthen it's oh, that's the LaraCon
(13:58):
slide deck and opening theRails world slide deck, with the
assumption that I would just gowalk over there and look like
I'm like actually closing myslides and stuff.
And so I just left the video inand I liked the joke and
afterwards I walked off stage.
I can't remember the guy whowas helping back there but he
said you confuse my colleague,because they were like how is he
(14:18):
doing this?
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Like how is he?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
closing keynote.
And they were like, oh, it'sjust a video, yeah, at least
they didn't wipe it off, thisthing, really quick Right.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And it was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, I took a picture behind stage because I
was just so enamored with thishuge LED wall.
I'm used to like let's throw a1080 projector up and put a
black curtain underneath, so itwas cool.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
It's a big stage.
But yeah, the number onefeedback was you couldn't see
the bottom.
Third, I had a panic attackwhen somebody in Slack said, hey
, speakers, change your slides.
I was like, no, never ask thespeakers on the same day to
change your slides.
It's easier, because it's anLED screen, to just lift it up,
but I think sometimes it didn'tstay up Like they made it big
again.
So that's really interesting,useful feedback to go to every
(15:05):
corner of the room and make sureyou can see the whole thing and
also share with speakersbeforehand what it's going to
look like.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, and I think the problem specifically with that
was that it was too low but youprobably wouldn't even have been
able to tell, because it'sbecause the people in front of
you you couldn't see.
So even if you had gone toevery corner, it was still like
by the time you sat down andthere's.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, the head people in front of you, that's when
you start lifting up yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
I had some text low on the slides and I was like,
well, whatever, they can alwayswatch the video afterwards to
catch what they missed orsomething.
But the good thing is like thevolume too loud during the happy
hour and the text too low orwhatever, like they're super
duper minor things that, yeah,little annoying in the moment
(15:46):
maybe, but fixable and notshowstoppers or anything Like
everything felt like it wentsuper duper smooth.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, it was surprisingly smooth on our side
as well, like there wasdefinitely little fires to put
out Understand that there wasdrilling in the building during,
I think, iriana and Azarovastalk.
That's something the venuecould have maybe not done.
You know they had full controlover that of all days.
They wanted to drill whensomebody I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That's funny.
Overall, my wife's not adeveloper.
This is her first time at aconference with me and she was
like blown away.
She's helped me put onSoutheast Ruby.
Like she is the one who likebasically did all the real work
for three years and so she, like, at a much lower level,
understands the amount of workinvolved.
So she could really appreciateall the work you and Thomas and
everyone did.
(16:32):
Cool so that.
So that leads, I think, toanother good question, which is
about next year's why Torontoand what factors influence the
decision to choose this locationfor the next Rails world.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
I saw that and that's a really great question.
North America, let's say, isarguably the biggest marker for
Rails, so we knew for sure thatwe eventually wanted to have an
event there, but it was justeasier to start in Europe, which
hadn't really had.
Well, this year had a lot ofevents in our space, but a Rails
specific conference of thissize maybe not.
So we started in Europe andnext year we knew we wanted to
(17:07):
go to North America and then,when I started the search,
there's all sorts of factorsthat you have to keep in mind.
Months you want to go to,what's the weather going to be
like?
Is it accessible as a city?
Are there big holidays going on?
Is another conference happeningLike I couldn't do, for
instance, san Diego, because SanDiego just happened with
RubyConf, for instance.
So you want to kind of givespace to cities that people have
(17:29):
gotten to as well in the recentpast, and what was important
this time was somewhere in NorthAmerica.
So we're easily accessible inNorth America, especially, for
instance, south America comingup, which would have been harder
to come to Europe, but Europewas great for maybe, north
Americans and people like NorthAfrica, for instance.
So, trying to get as much bangfor your buck in each location,
(17:51):
or at least as many people ineasily.
So we were looking at NewOrleans, miami, boston, houston,
chicago and Toronto.
And Toronto was my favoritefrom the get-go because, on top
of all these other factors thatyou're looking at, the weather
is going to be great in themonth that we want to go, which
wasn't the case for Miamihurricane season.
(18:13):
But the venue the venues for meare almost everything Like we
talked about this before lasttime I was on your show.
It adds something to an eventto have a special venue, and
that's kind of what I waslooking for.
So, on top of all these things,there was very few places that
fit the bill, and Toronto wasjust a shoe-in when I saw the
location, the venue itself.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
And because I'm been there.
So that was the other factor,right.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Exactly, and then I had to act.
It did shut that off.
There it is.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
It only took 27 minutes for it to come back to.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I'm excited to go to Toronto for my first time.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I have to warn you it's going to present challenges
that we didn't have inAmsterdam Logistical challenges.
The city is a completelydifferent vibe.
It's bigger city than Amsterdam, less accessible to get around.
The hotel prices are just ashigh, especially like the time
that we want to go isoverlapping a little bit with
the Toronto International FilmFestival.
(19:04):
So there's definitely problems.
I think what we can expectmoving forward is we're going to
try different things each time,but keeping a certain standard
of what we want and let the cityand the venue sort of shape the
rest of the experience.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I had a ton of fun in Amsterdam.
I'm going to say that had neverbeen in Europe before.
No, I'm just saying from theperspective of I like the idea
of switching it around, notbeing in the United States the
entire time.
Really enjoyed getting thatexperience to travel out there.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I just wish.
I had more time to hang outwith everybody, like everybody's
in my city, and I didn't haveany time or energy when it
finally came down to get out ofmy house when I wasn't at the
venue.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yeah Well, like you said, the conference still isn't
over for you yet.
Yeah so, yeah.
So we'll propose, like Fiji andHawaii and other places we want
to go sort of vacation to theMaldives, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I really like the Canada location, though, because
I can't think of a Rubyconference in Canada in my
tenure as a Rails developer.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
A couple of days before we announced it, I saw
somebody on Twitter saying, hey,there hasn't been any sort of
Ruby event and I'm going to doit in Toronto.
And I was like, dude, just waita couple of days, it's coming.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Chill, chill, chill, chill, chill.
I just can't say anything.
Yeah, so you just reply withthe two eyes?
Emoji.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, that's my number one.
Go to.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
I just want to take a second to thank our sponsor,
honey Badger.
Monitoring, like webdevelopment, can be complicated.
There are tons of tools andtechniques, but you just want to
know that your app is up andyour customers are happy.
When your customers encounter aproblem, you need clear,
actionable intelligence, notwalls of charts and reams of
logs to tail.
That's why they built HoneyBadger, the monitoring tool.
(20:49):
We've always wanted A toolthat's there when you need it
and gets out of your way whenyou don't, so you can keep
shipping, know when criticalerrors occur and which customers
are affected, respond instantlywhen your systems go down,
improve the health of yoursystems over time and fix
problems before your customerscan report them.
I know from personal experience.
(21:09):
I've fixed bugs when they'veshown up in Honey Badger and
then emailed the customer to letthem know.
Hey, I think I saw you get a500 error, I've fixed it and I
just wanted to let you know.
You can try again, and it blowsthose customers' minds to see
that they didn't even have achance to report the bug to you.
It's wild.
They love it.
Honey Badger is the applicationhealth monitoring tool built for
(21:32):
you, the developer who caresabout a quality product and
happy customers.
Start monitoring today athoneybadgerio.
It's free for small teams andsetup takes as little as five
minutes.
Once again, that'shoneybadgerio.
So are there things that youknow you can make simpler for
yourself to organize this?
(21:53):
Okay, first one's done, learneda ton of stuff.
We can just kind of make this astandard for every time or
something.
Are there things that you canreuse that you've now feel like
you've solved, or are you goingto try to redo it and make it
unique every time?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
It can be fully unique every time.
I want to have some sort ofconsistency so people know what
to expect and know how Railsworld differentiates from other
events in our space.
I think that's important.
What that kind of blueprintlooks like, yeah, I just need to
keep the vibe cool, which to meis venue and good music.
What we didn't have actuallythis time, that I think I want
(22:30):
to try to solve for next time insome capacity, is like a
communal space for people tomeet outside of conference hours
.
I was hoping the speaker hotelwould be that, but really wasn't
in the end.
I think a really cool hotel,but possibly a little bit too
far off the beaten track for therest of the attendees.
So, finding a hotel or somesort of bar that we could just
(22:54):
crash at and, if I'm beinghonest, in RailsConf that I went
to in Atlanta, talking toeverybody in the hotel bar was
one of the best experiences.
Yeah, it's the people you meet.
It's where I met Dave Paola andthat's how the conference app
idea came to be.
It's where ideas happen and wedidn't have the space for that
because Amsterdam is so small tocreate that somewhere, but
(23:14):
North America has a lot morespace and a lot more options for
that.
So I think that's something I'dlike to add, and I don't know
if we'll be able to keep it ifwe, for instance, come back to
Europe at a certain point.
But that's something I'd liketo try to solve for, to add and
do different.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, that's a really good point, because pretty much
every RailsConf I remember wejust crash at the same bar every
night.
It was either the hotel bar or,like a similar location, like a
different hotels bar.
There was a rooftop bar that westayed at a different hotel one
time and there was always like50 people up there from the
(23:51):
conference.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Yeah, it was, it's a nice oyster bar.
Oh yeah, lots of oysters therethat week.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I think that's a good thing.
The conference experiencedoesn't end at the end of the
last talk of the day, in a wayit just begins again.
But it's a whole different sortof experience for the evening
and stuff.
But we ended up in the hotelbar talking to several people
multiple times and even over theweekend because not everybody
(24:19):
left right away.
We stayed a couple extra daysand we're talking to the
Buzzsprout guys in the morningone morning or whatever.
Yeah, that's even more funbecause it's oh, you're still
around.
You get some more one-on-onetime that during the chaos of
the conference.
You get to talk to a lot ofpeople, but it may not be as
long as you want.
(24:39):
Our excuse has been like comeon the podcast and we'll we have
a whole hour with you then.
There's just so much of that.
That's even just like theexperience outside of the
conference you have to plan, butyou would never think about
that if this was your first timeplanning an event, and it's
crazy how much goes into this.
So I want to just give you ahuge shout out for everything
(25:00):
you did, because I know peoplewho are like well, what the hell
is the Rails Foundation doing?
And it's well you knew how muchgoes into an event like this,
you would understand.
But that's probably the beautyof what you've done is it's, as
an attendee or a speaker, soeasy to just experience and we
don't have to deal with anything.
(25:21):
And you've already taken careof so much and made it special.
And I mean showing up in thehotel and we've got all of our
speaker goodies a backpack andshirts and whatever, and all
that was like oh, this is justspecial, so it was just such a
great experience.
but there's a stupid amount ofwork that goes into making it.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And the thing is the Rails Foundation isn't just set
up to put on this event.
There are other things that wewant to do.
So the whole time when Railsworld was getting closer and
closer, I'd like you're tryingto put another, let's say, like
ball in the air fordocumentation or something.
But it's just gets so pressingan event and all encompassing in
those last couple weeks thateverything else went on hold.
(26:04):
So I like, the closer it got,the more I was like it's almost
done, it's almost done, it'salmost done.
But I really enjoyed it on site.
But there's so much we want todo.
I'm excited to change focus.
Fun to that for a little while.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Well, let's talk about the documentation.
I want to get it kind of likenext real foundation.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
So we have these two job vacancies open right now One
is for UX designer and one isfor a technical writer, and the
way we see it is, there's a lotof small little projects that
can become this great bigdocumentation project.
There's like you putting thenavigation bar across all the
properties, that it's consistentwhen you go from one to the
other.
Fixing with the guides looklike, updating into a more
(26:45):
modern look and feel, creating apath for I keep calling it a
learn path, but like abeginner's path on like where
would a new beginner tutorial go?
What would a new beginnertutorial look like?
And then where would it go onthe website, and decoupling it,
maybe from the installationguide, which I think should be
completely different.
This is how you install it,that this is what you need to
(27:06):
learn.
So there's all these smalllittle fixes that we're going to
start to tackle with the helpof a UX designer and probably
more than one technical writer,because I'd also like, for
instance, case studies of howthese companies are using Rails
and what challenges did you faceand how did you overcome them
for the marketing side.
And then, of course, fixing,going back and seeing where are
the holes in the guides andwhere can we update the
(27:29):
information or is it stillrelevant?
Just look at it with new eyesas well as all the beginner
stuff.
So I see these as maybe being acouple of technical writers
that we work with over time, andmaybe one solid UX designer.
So my next steps are goingthrough all of the applications
that came through there's somegood ones, I have to say and
then having those discussionsand setting expectations there
(27:52):
and just kind of starting inlittle bits and pieces to make
sure that we all work together.
We have like jive well as ateam and then people will
actually start to see morethings happen in the
documentation space.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
And then you got a fine place to put the DHH
Leonardo da Vinci somewhere likeon the homepage front and
center or something.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Nothing will convince me that he didn't know what he
was doing when he put that imageup there.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Yeah, it was too similar.
It was hilarious.
Yeah, I'm looking forward tothis.
It's funny how I'm suresomebody new can come to the
guides and be like, oh, thisdesign looks kind of old or
whatever and that might put themoff.
And they might be like, oh,maybe I will double check this
other thing or whatever.
And it's a matter of keeping upwith the times and making sure
(28:40):
that it's appealing.
And I think the every Davidkeynote that he gives is
basically a reminder of like,why are you here?
You're here because Railsallows super small teams to
accomplish enormous things, andhaving the marketing and stuff
as a reminder of that is likelook, get rid of the complexity.
(29:00):
Look what you can do with oneor two or three people.
They built Shopify and GitHuband yada, yada, yada.
There is so much you can dowith this.
People have forgotten about that.
They've kind of just went oh,what are the big companies do?
And they all care about allthis complexity.
So I guess we should dig intothe weeds there too.
(29:21):
And it's like you don't have toand it's a it'll be nice to
have that, as here's therefreshing thing, which is funny
because it's always been thesame, but people have forgotten.
That's important, and bringingit back and be like, hey, one
developer, renaissancedevelopers or whatever, just a
reminder of that.
And then all the things of theguides is just.
(29:44):
It seems like you've got quitea big task in front of you, not
to mention another conference.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
And they're conference too.
I spent a lot of time thinkinghow would you even tackle this,
and I think if I didn't have theadvice of the board I'm going
to give them a lot of credithere I would have sort of
decided to kind of take sometime and start from scratch and
build from the ground up, afterlike kind of presenting that to
them.
They're like or little bits ofpieces over time and like
(30:11):
constantly make little changes,and I was like oh yeah, that's
another way to go about it.
So like approaching this issomething that they've helped a
lot with, and I reallyappreciate that, because I
haven't done this before and ofcourse, the people that we work
with might not necessarily havedone it on this capacity yet,
and it's a lot less intimidatingto go okay, let's fix the
navigation bar.
Okay, what does tutorialtemplate look like?
(30:33):
Okay, now, it's just makes itlittle bite size chunks and it's
a lot less intimidating now.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
How are you going to juggle some of the stuff that's
like very technical, like theguides, for example, where it's
like a guide on the railsinitialization process still
says work in progress.
Be nice if none of those saidwork in progress.
Yeah, but that's somebody who'sgoing to be finishing that is
going to have to be prettyknowledgeable about rails
(31:02):
internals or whatever to finishthat, which is probably why it
still says work in progress.
But I was curious are you goingto be hiring developer
technical riders that are likerails developers, or do they
need to be to know rails?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I would say the bigger requirement there if it
was like one or the other, wouldbe a rails developer, because
you can tweak your writing, butit's a lot harder to suddenly
learn rails.
And don't forget as well thatthe rails core and issues and
triage team are behind this, sothey'll have eyes on it as well
and it can help kind of steer orshape if it's not going in the
(31:40):
right way or if they think, okay, that's not the best way to
portray it.
It'll be a lot of cooks in thisparticular kitchen, I think, so
we'll see how that goes, but Ithink everybody's keen to see it
being moved in the rightdirection.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah.
So I want to encourage anybodyif you want to help on this and
you don't think you're fit as atechnical rider or whatever and
you feel like you're more of arail stuff, you should still
apply, because that is exactlywhat we need for these guides
and stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And all sorts of different writing that we will
need, like the use cases, socialmedia posts, tutorials, like
these are different kinds oftechnical writing that if your
skill is more, for instance,teaching other people and
putting things in layman's terms, then possibly picking up the
technical writing for tutorialswould be better versus the
(32:31):
guides, which are highlytechnical and very specific.
So we do need several differentstyles of technical writer.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Yeah, speaking of the social media, I think that's
been a help too.
I assume it's you behind mostof the tweets on there, but it's
nice to see the rails Twitteris active or whatever, because
it's kind of been like hey,there's a new release, or
whatever in the past and likeget a lot of releases or haven't
.
Hopefully we'll get moreconsistent basis, but just a
(32:59):
constant sort of here's newthings, here's what we need,
here's what's happening, here'srails world talks and using that
as more marketing.
It's been a wonderful to seethat, because those are all the
little things that I feel, likeyou know as a Rails developer
who's been around for a longtime.
If those things get quiet, westart to worry is rails dead or
(33:20):
whatever?
But if it's active, then wedon't have any doubts of there's
a future here.
What we're doing matters andall that, and we can get
involved too.
So I just wanted to shout outthat too.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Thanks.
That's one of the good thingsabout events it gives you a lot
to talk about, like so manytalking points, especially the
programs that kind of lead intoit, like the CFP are getting
juniors to create the website orthe conference app.
So to have that kind ofconstant, steady stream of news
is really nice, just to showpeople that we are working on
(33:53):
things and Rails is around andthere's all these people
involved in Rails in differentways, and not just the code base
but also the event, forinstance, that's the title of
this episode Exe-Vad-It,exe-vad-it.
Do we know yet what the verb isfor Twitter, now that it's
called ex?
Is it exing it?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I think we're all like have decided that we just
don't care.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
We just don't go there.
I call it Twitter.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, I still call it tweeting.
I'll say post sometimes LikeI'm, but I mostly just it'll
probably change names again in amonth, so just along for the
ride.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I do have a question for you.
It kind of takes us back alittle bit, but not all the way.
I want to know what it was likeworking with the Agency of
Learning on the conference app,because I really enjoyed like
using that.
That was super cool.
So I'm just curious, kind ofwhat that experience was like
for you.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I'm glad you asked that because I could talk about
them with the correct name asmuch as possible.
They were so enthusiastic towork with.
As I said, it was being on sitein Atlanta and having a
conversation with Dave Paolathat sparked the idea later,
when I couldn't find aconference app built on Rails.
So when I reached out to himright away, he was like this is
(35:02):
great, this can be fun, we cando so much with this, let's do
it.
And they put the team together,and Shawmi and Eric were just
as excited.
I love easily excitable peoplebecause the enthusiasm is so
contagious.
So they came with ideas andalso, of course, cody and Daniel
as well, and Dave and Katya forUX design.
Everybody came with ideas.
(35:23):
So it was really nice becauseif one person has one idea and
then puts it together, it'll beokay.
But the polish that comes froma lot of people working together
and all these ideas sharing theideas together is really
special, and that's kind of whatit was like with working with
them Very enthusiastic, verygo-getter, very quick, jump on a
problem and fix it and come upwith solutions.
(35:45):
So I can't say enough goodthings about the agency of
learning and the whole process.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Well, I was talking to Eric Halberson Jason and I
met him at a conference lastyear, I guess but I was talking
to him about that experience andhe was like he talked about
like such a positive thing and Iwas like that's really cool,
that like one of the first Railsprojects that you get to work
on is for Rails world and yougot such an amazing experience,
(36:11):
Like apparently you are a greatQA person, very kind QA person.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I feel like I kept going just one more thing, do
you mind?
Just one more thing.
But they were always like noproblem, yeah, yeah, good idea,
let's do it, let's do it.
So if I was playing the role ofclient, I was one of those
clients, or the kind that's likeI have an idea.
Oh no, not another idea.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
That's good, though, because the experience of
learning to code is I have toworry about.
Can I make it work period first, and then it's thinking about
how do I actually make it feelnice and work smoothly, where
that's always.
If you're in their shoes andyou're like learning Rails, your
problem is how do I even makeit functional period?
(36:54):
And then, getting that feedbackis oh, this is interesting.
I wish that I had thought ofmaking it work that way, because
then I could have just built itright.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
The first attempt, or whatever.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
I would have had some insights on.
I would have designed itdifferently.
But it was fun talking to Ericat the conference.
We paired after the conferencebecause he was like you know
what I realized the first talkhappens and we had say of the
start time and the duration inthe database but we didn't have
the end time, which meant thatwe couldn't query properly for
(37:27):
the end time.
So as soon as the event startsit goes into the past and I was
like, yeah see, those are thelittle gotchas that like you
have to experience the app andstuff, but we talked through
several different variations ofhow to work through that and
whatever, but I think it wasawesome to have them featured on
(37:48):
stage and everything.
I think it was super specialfor them.
Having the MCs from Lowaggin,miriam and Dairy Dairy yeah,
that was so cool too, gettingpeople who are in the community
that may not be speaking orwhatever, but giving them
opportunities to be a part ofthe event makes it so special
too, I think.
(38:08):
So I assume you're planning ondoing more of this stuff for the
next ones.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, because.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
I want you to.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, it's really nice to.
I'm constantly thinking aboutwhat happens when we all retire.
Who is that next generation?
Who's going to pick up thepodcast and who's going to be
creating the content and who'sgoing to be coming to the events
and speaking at the events?
These are things we need tosort of cultivate now, and the
only way to do that is to bringpeople into the fold now and
kind of, when people come out ofboot camps, bridge that gap,
(38:38):
become from boot camp graduateto solid community member, and
creating opportunities for themin that way is something I think
a lot of us can do in differentways and I know a lot of people
are like Dave Palla and theAgency of Learning are doing.
But any more ideas?
I'd love to hear if people aredoing that in the communities so
we can share and let othercompanies figure out how to do
(39:00):
that.
I know it's not easy.
It does take some commitmentand to work with junior
developers and make space forjunior developers, but I think
it'll take a group effort.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
Yeah, it's investing in your future, so it's a good
thing to do.
Well, we are almost at the topof the hour.
You guys have any morequestions, or?
Amanda?
Do you have anything you wantto share?
I know you've got a couple ofjob listings available for the
technical writer and thedesigner.
Anything else?
Speaker 2 (39:28):
I think one of the biggest things would be we are
going to start sharing thesponsorship prospectus for Rails
World 2024 in Toronto soon.
So if companies are interestedin sponsoring a North American
event, please get in touch atsponsors at rubionrailsorg.
And thank you all for being onsite, doing your thing on site
and being like the worm face ofthe community worm faces.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to do it.
The Rails World wouldn't havebeen the same without Andrew
Mason there.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
And he's rocking the swag now.
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
I had to go Rails later on earlier.
I used to imagine Andrew hasn'ttaken that off since Amsterdam.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I barely have taken AppSignal off.
I also haven't unpacked fromToronto, which was just after.
Oh, one last story before I go.
I think, Chris, you canappreciate this.
The day after Rails World, whenthe vibe was still high online
and in slack, I came home and Ithought that my dog was on his
way out.
I think I thought he wasshedding the mortal coil and I
(40:31):
had to leave for Toronto on theMonday.
So I was like, oh no, it's abad time.
And I was looking at him likebuddy, don't do this, this is
bad timing or whatever.
And I changed all my flightsthat I would go to Toronto and
then be out again after a day.
And I brought him to the vet acouple of hours before my flight
.
They ran some tests.
He wasn't only not doing poorly, he was doing better than
(40:52):
before.
All of his tests were like inthe positive and I was like I
just changed my flight, I'mmissing a wedding for you, Just
because I was like he can't, notnow, please don't now.
So I was just sobbing on theSaturday after Rails World.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Wow, that's good, very good news.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, yeah, he's still around.
He's still kicking.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
I mean we missed him at the conference.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I thought about bringing him out the weekend
after.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
It might have been a lot that would have piqued it
for me.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
That might have been too much for me.
Finally, everything I've needed.
Thank you so much foreverything.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Thanks for having me on again and I will see you all
next in Toronto.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Yes, sounds good, can't wait.
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
We got to start working on our talks.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com