March 7, 2025 • 20 mins
🎙️ Special Episode Alert! 🎙️
Celebrate International Women's Day with us on the Society of Actuaries Research Insights Podcast! 🌟 Join our Guest Host Sherry Chan, FSA, MAAA, EA, FCA as she chats with Karen Burnett, FSA, FCIA and Si Xie, FSA, CERA, FCIA about their inspiring journeys in the actuarial field. 🚀👩💼
Discover their stories, challenges, and the women who have inspired them along the way. 🌸✨ Don't miss this empowering conversation!
Tune in now and be inspired! 🎧💪
Send us your feedback at ResearchInsights@soa.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sherry Chan (00:04):
Hello everyone. It's time for another episode of
the Society of ActuariesResearch Insights Podcast. This
is Sherry Chan, and I'll be yourguest host for today's special
episode. So let me firstintroduce myself. I am the Chief
Strategy Officer of an AIInsurTech startup called Atidot
is a CNBC top 30 ensure tech inthe world. I'm also a Society of
(00:25):
Actuaries board member and theoriginal co founder and a
current board member ofAdvocates Actuaries. We have a
very special episode today, onethat focuses on celebrating
women's achievements andobservation of International
Women's Day, which is, ofcourse, March 8. And our guests
are two very accomplished femaleactuaries with international
(00:47):
representation and in the spiritof International Women's Day who
have been active volunteers andwho I've had, or have the great
pleasure of being fellow boardmembers with on the Society of
Actuaries board. So today wewelcome Karen Burnett, FSA and
FCEA, newly appointed VicePresident of pension solutions
at CAAT Pension Plan. She hasnearly 30 years of experience in
(01:09):
the pension industry. Karenserves on the Society of
Actuaries board of directorswith me. Very happy to have her
as a fellow board member and asa member of the Association of
Canadian Pension Management, orACPM Ontario Council. We also
have Si, Xie, FSA, CERA FCIA.Si is a member of SOA, is
(01:32):
actuary of the future sectionCouncil and the International
section Council. And a formerSOA board member who I actually
had the great pleasure to alsobe on the board with currently
leads an InsurTech firm calledreimagine brisk based in Hong
Kong. Karen, Si, welcome, andgreat to have you as part of the
Women's History Month thismonth. And how are you ladies
(01:53):
today doing?
Karen Burnett (01:54):
Thank you, Sherry. I am doing wonderfully.
I am so excited to be part ofthis podcast, and I can't wait
to get into the questions.
Si Xie (02:02):
Great, Hi, thank you, Sherry, very excited to be here
today.
Sherry Chan (02:06):
Yeah, great to have you across international borders
there, the other side of theworld.
Okay, so before we get started,I wanted to make sure our
listeners know where they canfind information. On the SOA
Research Institute. You can goto soa.org Click on the Research
Institute, and from there, youcan produce a wide range of
topics. So all right, let's getstarted. Karen, let's start with
(02:30):
you. Can you share a bit aboutyour background and upbringing
and what inspired or motivatedyou to pursue the actual, real
field?
Karen Burnett (02:38):
Happy to! So growing up, my family took a lot
of road trips. My dad, who wasan engineer, would keep us
entertained with math problems.He taught us how to use the
Pythagorean theorem, and at thetime, he had a wrist watch that
had a calculator built in. So wegot to cheat a little bit, and
my sister and I would sit in theback seat solving equations for
(03:00):
hours. Looking back, I thinkthose road trips sparked my love
for math. At first, I reallythought I wanted to be a math
teacher, but as time went on, Ireally wanted to be able to
apply my skills in a practicalway. I knew I didn't want to
spend 40 years solving the sameproblems over and over. So one
(03:20):
day, I went to my guidancecounselor, and I asked the
question, what other careers arethere out there that will use my
math skills and my love formath, but I don't want to be an
accountant? So she went to thebookshelf and grabbed this giant
book of occupations. She flippedthrough the pages and asked me,
have you ever heard of anactuary? I said no, but I read
(03:43):
up on what an actuary did, and Iwas intrigued. The book didn't
mention how long it would takefor exams and how tough they
were, but once I started, therewas no going back. And
throughout my career, I have asan actuary, gotten that variety
that I was so looking for in mycurrent role at cat pension
plan, there's so much variety. Iwork with organizations across
(04:06):
the country, understanding theirunique challenges and helping
them turn the challenges intoopportunities. It's very
exciting. There's so manydifferent variables across the
employers, and I feel thathelping them to drive better
outcomes, but also improvingretirements for Canadians is so
incredibly rewarding.
Sherry Chan (04:28):
So definitely, every day is a new day, right?
Karen,
Karen Burnett (04:31):
Exactly, no problem ever gets repeated!
Sherry Chan (04:34):
I want to see that watch one day. That's a very
interesting watch there. Itmight make a great gift idea for
Pi Day for somebody.
Karen Burnett (04:43):
It's an antique at this point.
Sherry Chan (04:46):
Si, tell us about your background and your
professional journey. What doyou love about being an actuary?
Si Xie (04:53):
Well, my background, my path to be an actuary, is very
different from Karen's. I wasborn in Guang, China, also known
as Canton. My sister and I hadthe opportunity to study in the
UK. She pursued actuarialscience, and I chose to study
mathematics and statistics.After graduation, we both moved
(05:14):
to Canada, and as a mathgraduate, I was so sure what
career path to take, honestlyand because of my sister, I
submitted one job application toan actuarial software company,
and to my surprise, I gotaccepted, and I've never looked
back since. And what I loveabout being an actuary is the
(05:37):
instant credibility. It bringspeople automatically assume that
I am smart and analytical, whichI see firsthand when meeting
with investors and potentialpartners, and I really enjoy
that that's like really broughtus to my profession. And there's
also a wealth of transferableskills that activists can bring
(05:59):
our core analytical and criticalthinking ability enables us to
tackle various business problemseffectively, and I do want more
actuaries to embrace that
Sherry Chan (06:12):
That's quite the path. Didn't start with a watch,
but very, very interestingindeed, you and I share, you
know, ancestral backgrounds, inthe sense that both our
ancestors are from Canton China,and so I always want to say your
last name with the Cantonese wayof saying it, instead of
Mandarin. So it's great to haveyou here Si. Thank you. Are
(06:32):
there women who have beenparticularly influential or
inspiring to you? Both of you,either personally or
professionally? Karen, let'sstart with you first,
Karen Burnett (06:41):
Sure, I have been very fortunate to have many
inspirational women in my life,but thinking about two who
immediately come to mind arepeople that I've worked with in
my past. One is Ophelia Isabel,and the other is Karen
Figueredo. Ophelia actuallyrecruited me from the University
of Waterloo as a co op student,and from that moment on, she's
(07:02):
been part of my life. She'sconstantly challenging me to
push beyond what I think I'mcapable of, and has been my
biggest supporter, even when Idoubt myself. She's also been a
very strong role model, showingme just how far female actuaries
can go and how our skills can beapplied in so many different
ways, not just from a technicalmath standpoint. With Karen, she
(07:25):
was the first person I workedwith when I joined Towers parent
way back in the early 2000s andshe played a huge role in
shaping how I approach mycareer. She not only taught me
how to apply my technicalknowledge, but also helped me to
understand the integrity,responsibility and
professionalism that comes withbeing an actuary, the level of
(07:47):
trust that's placed inactuaries, and the impact we can
have on society, is something Ihave never taken for granted
thanks to Karen.
Sherry Chan (07:55):
So Karens are definitely role models. In my
mind.
Karen Burnett (08:00):
Definitely, yes.
Sherry Chan (08:03):
Si. How about you? Any inspirational woman you
would like to tell us about?
Si Xie (08:06):
Yes, I think, like most people, I draw inspiration from
kind of those around me everyday, like my mother, my
grandmother, my sister, myfriends and colleagues. But
throughout my life, I've alwaysloved watching the Olympics.
It's incredible to see howhumans constantly challenge our
(08:26):
limits. But even more inspiringare the stories behind the
athletes, their resilience,persistence and the unwaving
belief in themselves. And one ofmy favorite athletes is the
Chinese shot putter. Her name isGong Lijiao. Her path to the
Olympic glory was really longand challenging, and she had
(08:48):
multiple setbacks and injuries.And what really strike me is
that she never lost sight of herdream. And finally, after 21
years of training and hard work,she finally won the gold medal
at her fourth Olympics in Tokyo,and just she had this powerful,
emotional kind of interviews.And I cry whenever I watch her
(09:11):
interviews. And she famouslysaid two things that really
stuck with me. One is, I nevergive up and I never will. The
other one is, chase your dreams.You never know when they might
come true, and it they reallyserve as a reminder to kind of
keep pushing me throughchallenges. And the irony also
(09:32):
is, whenever I watch theOlympians, the number of years
of training and the hard work,it's just uncomparable. And that
self belief is very, verytouching, and it's it really
resonates. And going back to ourprofession, I mean, we often
complain about, like, fiveyears, five or six years of
(09:54):
exams being too long, and wecomplain, and imagine I keep
trying. 21 years and withoutknowing if you ever make it,
that's and it's such a nichekind of sport that shot put,
there's no money to be made, andit's really like a dream is a
belief. So I thought somethingthat I want to share with all of
(10:16):
us is something that I think itcan all help us.
Sherry Chan (10:20):
Yeah, I think that's a great story of
perseverance. I also love thefact that one of your role
models is someone that you don'tpersonally know, right? That you
know we're so often accustomedto thinking that role models are
just those that we know in ourimmediate circle, but you know,
those who we see in the news orother places can be role models
(10:40):
for us too. So that's reallygreat. Karen, what are some of
the most significant challengesyou've encountered in your
career, and how did you overcomethem?
Karen Burnett (10:50):
So one of my biggest challenges, and probably
something that I'm sure manywomen face, is balancing work
and family, but also pushingback against misguided
assumptions from colleagues, andI'll take one particular
instance that I encountered. Itwas one year where I had made it
clear to my manager early in theyear that I was ready to take
(11:12):
the next step in my career, andmy sites were set on a
promotion, but during aconversation midway through the
year, we were setting theexpectations for the end of the
year my goals, and I told him Iwas ready to reach the next
level. And the response was, Ithought you were prioritizing
your family right now, not yourcareer. And I was really taken
(11:32):
aback. And I thought those twoare not mutually exclusive. And
needless to say, theconversation that day did not
end very well for either of us,but luckily, I was actually on
vacation the following week, andduring that time, I thought long
and hard about our meeting, andwhen I returned, I was ready
(11:53):
with a counter argument, onethat made it clear what my
priorities were, and that theyBoth included career and family,
I laid out my progress,highlighted my contributions
that I had made, and proposedways that my manager and I could
work together to ensure that Iwas meeting and exceeding
expectations. And this isn't thefirst time I've encountered
(12:14):
biases like these, but it's theone that really stood out,
because it was a very difficultmeeting. I felt very hurt, but I
was able to turn it around, andI did get that promotion at the
end of the year. So keeping yourgoal in mind, but meeting
somebody where they are is alsovery important.
Sherry Chan (12:32):
That's a great story. Yeah, obviously those
listening in can't see us rightnow, but there's been some
applause on this, on thispodcast, after Karen concluded
her story. So I think we couldprobably have a whole different,
you know, podcast onmicroaggression, but that is
definitely a classic example ofof a scenario there. So, but I'm
glad the ending was happy. I'mglad you, you know, were able to
(12:54):
convey that both can be achievedand it's not mutually exclusive.
So good for you. Si in the faceof obstacles, what strategies
have you used to achieve yourgoals?
Si Xie (13:05):
One of my mottos is being comfortable or feeling
uncomfortable. I think we needto accept the fact that
obstacles are inevitable. It isimpossible to sail through life
without encountering storms, andthis mindset really allowed me
to stay positive, to go throughthe process, kind of when facing
(13:27):
challenges and beyond that, Ibelieve strategies should be
situational. So if I say I facea difficult project at work,
especially with tight timelinesor a high risk of failure, three
elements come into play for me,trust, persistence and
(13:49):
ownership. I think building thetrust within the team and having
trust in their ability iscrucial. As a leader, I focus on
creating a safe and accountableenvironment where the team can
work together towards a commongoal, rather than playing the
blame game. Persistence is alsokey that we have the team to
(14:11):
break down the project intomanageable tasks and tackle them
one by one, by staying committedeven when the progress seems
slow. It's important to move usforward, so just keep kind of
moving forward, and finally,take ownership of my own
responsibilities and the projectsuccess is vital. Embracing
(14:33):
accountability and lead byexample is probably the core to
the success, and everyone needsto take ownership and really
drive the sense of commitment. Ithink those have served me well
in the past. Whenever I facedifficult projects or
challenges, I am a lot lessqualified and equipped to share
(14:56):
my strategy when dealing withfamily challenges. Uh, but in
general, my core strategy is, orat least I try to, is practicing
empathy and and this reallyinvolve active listening and try
to understand the perspectivesfrom the other side and
encourage open and honestcommunication. Might not always
(15:21):
work, and we always have tocontrol our emotion, and
hopefully we can work towards tofind a solution.
Sherry Chan (15:28):
That's great. So TPO, trust, persistence and
ownership, I'm going to have toremember that Si and what you
said about if, if something'snot challenging you then, well,
the way I see it is, ifsomething's not challenging you,
then you're not reallystretching yourself. So
challenges, obstacles, it'salways good to, you know, be a
part of that, because that's,that's the, I think, exact
(15:52):
definition of stretchingyourself and making sure that
you're doing something that isbeyond your current capabilities
to grow. Okay, so Karen, beforewe close, I want to ask both of
you, you know, very similarquestion, but Karen, I'll start
with you, and this is more of areflection back. So if you could
give advice to young womenaspiring to pursue their goals,
(16:13):
what would it be?
Karen Burnett (16:15):
Foremost I would say, stay strong, stay focused
and believe in yourself. You canachieve anything that you set
your mind to. Take a look at thepeople around you, ask yourself,
Who inspires you, who has thequalities and aspirations that
you admire, and moreimportantly, who shares the same
drive to achieve their goals andbecome friendly with them. Spend
(16:38):
time with them. Learn from them.If you can build a mentor
mentoring relationship, that'sgreat. These are the people that
will challenge you, support youand push you to grow. I found
myself I couldn't do it on myown, or I wouldn't have gotten
it as far as I did on my own.Those mentor mentoring
(16:58):
relationships were reallyimportant at cat. I also try to
create a collaborativeenvironment where everyone feels
heard and valued, and Iencourage all to not be afraid,
to speak up and present theirideas. I find more often than
not, they'll be surprised abouthow far it'll take them.
Sherry Chan (17:21):
That's great. You know, it reminds me what you're
saying. Reminds me of how westart becoming the people that
we surround ourselves most with,right? So I think it's so
important to be around thosethat you want to emanate and
that you aspire to be. Because Ithink just from proximity, some
of that transfers to you. Sogreat, great advice. Si, what
about you? If you could go backand give your younger self some
(17:44):
advice? What would it be?
Si Xie (17:47):
There's so many things I can say to myself so I can make
less mistakes throughout mylife. If I were to just give one
advice to myself or to any youngpeople, it would be, no one is
perfect, and we have a chance,but we have a chance to be
better every day. This meanshaving a growth mindset and
(18:07):
embrace setbacks asopportunities to learn and to
improve. And the second part ofthis advice is about
forgiveness. When we see flawsin others or wrongdoing in
others, we should forgive them,because they are also learning.
Everyone is on their own journeyfor growth and understanding
(18:29):
this help us to be morecompassionate and supportive. Is
not easy, but it is necessary.
Sherry Chan (18:36):
Yeah, I think compassion should extend to
ourselves too, right? So,
Si Xie (18:40):
Yes, absolutely,
Sherry Chan (18:41):
yes, yes. So
Si Xie (18:44):
Sometimes we too hard on ourselves.
Sherry Chan (18:46):
Definitely, definitely be at fault for that
one too. And I liked what yousaid. It was full circle, every
day is a new day. And Karenstarted her remarks with how she
wanted every day to be adifferent day. So Well, thank
you, ladies. Karen, Si thanksfor stopping by today to talk to
us about your professionaljourneys.
Karen Burnett (19:05):
Thank you so much, Sherry. It's been my
absolute pleasure.
Si Xie (19:09):
Well, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure
to speak and learn from both ofyou.
Sherry Chan (19:14):
Well, likewise, definitely and listeners, please
feel free to share this podcaston your social media with others
who are interested in the SOApodcast. And if you like, use
the hashtag actuary research,one word so others interested
can find it, and please send usyour feedback, comments,
suggestions via email atresearch insights with an S on
(19:36):
the end@soa.org and thanks againto our guests today, Karen
Burnett and Si Xie for spendingtime with us. Okay, everyone,
thanks for tuning in this week.It has never been a better time
to be an actuary for researchinsights podcast, I'm Sherry
Chan for the Society ofActuaries Research Institute.
Rose Northon (19:58):
This was a podcast for the Society of Actuaries.
The views and opinions expressedin SOA podcasts are those of the
speakers or authors and do notnecessarily reflect the views of
their employers or the SOA. AllSOA meetings and educational
offerings are conducted incompliance with US federal and
state antitrust laws. Forfurther information, please see
(20:19):
the SOA antitrust complianceguidelines located online at
soa.org.
Hello everyone. It's time for another episode of
the Society of ActuariesResearch Insights Podcast. This
is Sherry Chan, and I'll be yourguest host for today's special
episode. So let me firstintroduce myself. I am the Chief
Strategy Officer of an AIInsurTech startup called Atidot
is a CNBC top 30 ensure tech inthe world. I'm also a Society of
(00:25):
Actuaries board member and theoriginal co founder and a
current board member ofAdvocates Actuaries. We have a
very special episode today, onethat focuses on celebrating
women's achievements andobservation of International
Women's Day, which is, ofcourse, March 8. And our guests
are two very accomplished femaleactuaries with international
(00:47):
representation and in the spiritof International Women's Day who
have been active volunteers andwho I've had, or have the great
pleasure of being fellow boardmembers with on the Society of
Actuaries board. So today wewelcome Karen Burnett, FSA and
FCEA, newly appointed VicePresident of pension solutions
at CAAT Pension Plan. She hasnearly 30 years of experience in
(01:09):
the pension industry. Karenserves on the Society of
Actuaries board of directorswith me. Very happy to have her
as a fellow board member and asa member of the Association of
Canadian Pension Management, orACPM Ontario Council. We also
have Si, Xie, FSA, CERA FCIA.Si is a member of SOA, is
(01:32):
actuary of the future sectionCouncil and the International
section Council. And a formerSOA board member who I actually
had the great pleasure to alsobe on the board with currently
leads an InsurTech firm calledreimagine brisk based in Hong
Kong. Karen, Si, welcome, andgreat to have you as part of the
Women's History Month thismonth. And how are you ladies
(01:53):
today doing?
Karen Burnett (01:54):
Thank you, Sherry. I am doing wonderfully.
I am so excited to be part ofthis podcast, and I can't wait
to get into the questions.
Si Xie (02:02):
Great, Hi, thank you, Sherry, very excited to be here
today.
Sherry Chan (02:06):
Yeah, great to have you across international borders
there, the other side of theworld.
Okay, so before we get started,I wanted to make sure our
listeners know where they canfind information. On the SOA
Research Institute. You can goto soa.org Click on the Research
Institute, and from there, youcan produce a wide range of
topics. So all right, let's getstarted. Karen, let's start with
(02:30):
you. Can you share a bit aboutyour background and upbringing
and what inspired or motivatedyou to pursue the actual, real
field?
Karen Burnett (02:38):
Happy to! So growing up, my family took a lot
of road trips. My dad, who wasan engineer, would keep us
entertained with math problems.He taught us how to use the
Pythagorean theorem, and at thetime, he had a wrist watch that
had a calculator built in. So wegot to cheat a little bit, and
my sister and I would sit in theback seat solving equations for
(03:00):
hours. Looking back, I thinkthose road trips sparked my love
for math. At first, I reallythought I wanted to be a math
teacher, but as time went on, Ireally wanted to be able to
apply my skills in a practicalway. I knew I didn't want to
spend 40 years solving the sameproblems over and over. So one
(03:20):
day, I went to my guidancecounselor, and I asked the
question, what other careers arethere out there that will use my
math skills and my love formath, but I don't want to be an
accountant? So she went to thebookshelf and grabbed this giant
book of occupations. She flippedthrough the pages and asked me,
have you ever heard of anactuary? I said no, but I read
(03:43):
up on what an actuary did, and Iwas intrigued. The book didn't
mention how long it would takefor exams and how tough they
were, but once I started, therewas no going back. And
throughout my career, I have asan actuary, gotten that variety
that I was so looking for in mycurrent role at cat pension
plan, there's so much variety. Iwork with organizations across
(04:06):
the country, understanding theirunique challenges and helping
them turn the challenges intoopportunities. It's very
exciting. There's so manydifferent variables across the
employers, and I feel thathelping them to drive better
outcomes, but also improvingretirements for Canadians is so
incredibly rewarding.
Sherry Chan (04:28):
So definitely, every day is a new day, right?
Karen,
Karen Burnett (04:31):
Exactly, no problem ever gets repeated!
Sherry Chan (04:34):
I want to see that watch one day. That's a very
interesting watch there. Itmight make a great gift idea for
Pi Day for somebody.
Karen Burnett (04:43):
It's an antique at this point.
Sherry Chan (04:46):
Si, tell us about your background and your
professional journey. What doyou love about being an actuary?
Si Xie (04:53):
Well, my background, my path to be an actuary, is very
different from Karen's. I wasborn in Guang, China, also known
as Canton. My sister and I hadthe opportunity to study in the
UK. She pursued actuarialscience, and I chose to study
mathematics and statistics.After graduation, we both moved
(05:14):
to Canada, and as a mathgraduate, I was so sure what
career path to take, honestlyand because of my sister, I
submitted one job application toan actuarial software company,
and to my surprise, I gotaccepted, and I've never looked
back since. And what I loveabout being an actuary is the
(05:37):
instant credibility. It bringspeople automatically assume that
I am smart and analytical, whichI see firsthand when meeting
with investors and potentialpartners, and I really enjoy
that that's like really broughtus to my profession. And there's
also a wealth of transferableskills that activists can bring
(05:59):
our core analytical and criticalthinking ability enables us to
tackle various business problemseffectively, and I do want more
actuaries to embrace that
Sherry Chan (06:12):
That's quite the path. Didn't start with a watch,
but very, very interestingindeed, you and I share, you
know, ancestral backgrounds, inthe sense that both our
ancestors are from Canton China,and so I always want to say your
last name with the Cantonese wayof saying it, instead of
Mandarin. So it's great to haveyou here Si. Thank you. Are
(06:32):
there women who have beenparticularly influential or
inspiring to you? Both of you,either personally or
professionally? Karen, let'sstart with you first,
Karen Burnett (06:41):
Sure, I have been very fortunate to have many
inspirational women in my life,but thinking about two who
immediately come to mind arepeople that I've worked with in
my past. One is Ophelia Isabel,and the other is Karen
Figueredo. Ophelia actuallyrecruited me from the University
of Waterloo as a co op student,and from that moment on, she's
(07:02):
been part of my life. She'sconstantly challenging me to
push beyond what I think I'mcapable of, and has been my
biggest supporter, even when Idoubt myself. She's also been a
very strong role model, showingme just how far female actuaries
can go and how our skills can beapplied in so many different
ways, not just from a technicalmath standpoint. With Karen, she
(07:25):
was the first person I workedwith when I joined Towers parent
way back in the early 2000s andshe played a huge role in
shaping how I approach mycareer. She not only taught me
how to apply my technicalknowledge, but also helped me to
understand the integrity,responsibility and
professionalism that comes withbeing an actuary, the level of
(07:47):
trust that's placed inactuaries, and the impact we can
have on society, is something Ihave never taken for granted
thanks to Karen.
Sherry Chan (07:55):
So Karens are definitely role models. In my
mind.
Karen Burnett (08:00):
Definitely, yes.
Sherry Chan (08:03):
Si. How about you? Any inspirational woman you
would like to tell us about?
Si Xie (08:06):
Yes, I think, like most people, I draw inspiration from
kind of those around me everyday, like my mother, my
grandmother, my sister, myfriends and colleagues. But
throughout my life, I've alwaysloved watching the Olympics.
It's incredible to see howhumans constantly challenge our
(08:26):
limits. But even more inspiringare the stories behind the
athletes, their resilience,persistence and the unwaving
belief in themselves. And one ofmy favorite athletes is the
Chinese shot putter. Her name isGong Lijiao. Her path to the
Olympic glory was really longand challenging, and she had
(08:48):
multiple setbacks and injuries.And what really strike me is
that she never lost sight of herdream. And finally, after 21
years of training and hard work,she finally won the gold medal
at her fourth Olympics in Tokyo,and just she had this powerful,
emotional kind of interviews.And I cry whenever I watch her
(09:11):
interviews. And she famouslysaid two things that really
stuck with me. One is, I nevergive up and I never will. The
other one is, chase your dreams.You never know when they might
come true, and it they reallyserve as a reminder to kind of
keep pushing me throughchallenges. And the irony also
(09:32):
is, whenever I watch theOlympians, the number of years
of training and the hard work,it's just uncomparable. And that
self belief is very, verytouching, and it's it really
resonates. And going back to ourprofession, I mean, we often
complain about, like, fiveyears, five or six years of
(09:54):
exams being too long, and wecomplain, and imagine I keep
trying. 21 years and withoutknowing if you ever make it,
that's and it's such a nichekind of sport that shot put,
there's no money to be made, andit's really like a dream is a
belief. So I thought somethingthat I want to share with all of
(10:16):
us is something that I think itcan all help us.
Sherry Chan (10:20):
Yeah, I think that's a great story of
perseverance. I also love thefact that one of your role
models is someone that you don'tpersonally know, right? That you
know we're so often accustomedto thinking that role models are
just those that we know in ourimmediate circle, but you know,
those who we see in the news orother places can be role models
(10:40):
for us too. So that's reallygreat. Karen, what are some of
the most significant challengesyou've encountered in your
career, and how did you overcomethem?
Karen Burnett (10:50):
So one of my biggest challenges, and probably
something that I'm sure manywomen face, is balancing work
and family, but also pushingback against misguided
assumptions from colleagues, andI'll take one particular
instance that I encountered. Itwas one year where I had made it
clear to my manager early in theyear that I was ready to take
(11:12):
the next step in my career, andmy sites were set on a
promotion, but during aconversation midway through the
year, we were setting theexpectations for the end of the
year my goals, and I told him Iwas ready to reach the next
level. And the response was, Ithought you were prioritizing
your family right now, not yourcareer. And I was really taken
(11:32):
aback. And I thought those twoare not mutually exclusive. And
needless to say, theconversation that day did not
end very well for either of us,but luckily, I was actually on
vacation the following week, andduring that time, I thought long
and hard about our meeting, andwhen I returned, I was ready
(11:53):
with a counter argument, onethat made it clear what my
priorities were, and that theyBoth included career and family,
I laid out my progress,highlighted my contributions
that I had made, and proposedways that my manager and I could
work together to ensure that Iwas meeting and exceeding
expectations. And this isn't thefirst time I've encountered
(12:14):
biases like these, but it's theone that really stood out,
because it was a very difficultmeeting. I felt very hurt, but I
was able to turn it around, andI did get that promotion at the
end of the year. So keeping yourgoal in mind, but meeting
somebody where they are is alsovery important.
Sherry Chan (12:32):
That's a great story. Yeah, obviously those
listening in can't see us rightnow, but there's been some
applause on this, on thispodcast, after Karen concluded
her story. So I think we couldprobably have a whole different,
you know, podcast onmicroaggression, but that is
definitely a classic example ofof a scenario there. So, but I'm
glad the ending was happy. I'mglad you, you know, were able to
(12:54):
convey that both can be achievedand it's not mutually exclusive.
So good for you. Si in the faceof obstacles, what strategies
have you used to achieve yourgoals?
Si Xie (13:05):
One of my mottos is being comfortable or feeling
uncomfortable. I think we needto accept the fact that
obstacles are inevitable. It isimpossible to sail through life
without encountering storms, andthis mindset really allowed me
to stay positive, to go throughthe process, kind of when facing
(13:27):
challenges and beyond that, Ibelieve strategies should be
situational. So if I say I facea difficult project at work,
especially with tight timelinesor a high risk of failure, three
elements come into play for me,trust, persistence and
(13:49):
ownership. I think building thetrust within the team and having
trust in their ability iscrucial. As a leader, I focus on
creating a safe and accountableenvironment where the team can
work together towards a commongoal, rather than playing the
blame game. Persistence is alsokey that we have the team to
(14:11):
break down the project intomanageable tasks and tackle them
one by one, by staying committedeven when the progress seems
slow. It's important to move usforward, so just keep kind of
moving forward, and finally,take ownership of my own
responsibilities and the projectsuccess is vital. Embracing
(14:33):
accountability and lead byexample is probably the core to
the success, and everyone needsto take ownership and really
drive the sense of commitment. Ithink those have served me well
in the past. Whenever I facedifficult projects or
challenges, I am a lot lessqualified and equipped to share
(14:56):
my strategy when dealing withfamily challenges. Uh, but in
general, my core strategy is, orat least I try to, is practicing
empathy and and this reallyinvolve active listening and try
to understand the perspectivesfrom the other side and
encourage open and honestcommunication. Might not always
(15:21):
work, and we always have tocontrol our emotion, and
hopefully we can work towards tofind a solution.
Sherry Chan (15:28):
That's great. So TPO, trust, persistence and
ownership, I'm going to have toremember that Si and what you
said about if, if something'snot challenging you then, well,
the way I see it is, ifsomething's not challenging you,
then you're not reallystretching yourself. So
challenges, obstacles, it'salways good to, you know, be a
part of that, because that's,that's the, I think, exact
(15:52):
definition of stretchingyourself and making sure that
you're doing something that isbeyond your current capabilities
to grow. Okay, so Karen, beforewe close, I want to ask both of
you, you know, very similarquestion, but Karen, I'll start
with you, and this is more of areflection back. So if you could
give advice to young womenaspiring to pursue their goals,
(16:13):
what would it be?
Karen Burnett (16:15):
Foremost I would say, stay strong, stay focused
and believe in yourself. You canachieve anything that you set
your mind to. Take a look at thepeople around you, ask yourself,
Who inspires you, who has thequalities and aspirations that
you admire, and moreimportantly, who shares the same
drive to achieve their goals andbecome friendly with them. Spend
(16:38):
time with them. Learn from them.If you can build a mentor
mentoring relationship, that'sgreat. These are the people that
will challenge you, support youand push you to grow. I found
myself I couldn't do it on myown, or I wouldn't have gotten
it as far as I did on my own.Those mentor mentoring
(16:58):
relationships were reallyimportant at cat. I also try to
create a collaborativeenvironment where everyone feels
heard and valued, and Iencourage all to not be afraid,
to speak up and present theirideas. I find more often than
not, they'll be surprised abouthow far it'll take them.
Sherry Chan (17:21):
That's great. You know, it reminds me what you're
saying. Reminds me of how westart becoming the people that
we surround ourselves most with,right? So I think it's so
important to be around thosethat you want to emanate and
that you aspire to be. Because Ithink just from proximity, some
of that transfers to you. Sogreat, great advice. Si, what
about you? If you could go backand give your younger self some
(17:44):
advice? What would it be?
Si Xie (17:47):
There's so many things I can say to myself so I can make
less mistakes throughout mylife. If I were to just give one
advice to myself or to any youngpeople, it would be, no one is
perfect, and we have a chance,but we have a chance to be
better every day. This meanshaving a growth mindset and
(18:07):
embrace setbacks asopportunities to learn and to
improve. And the second part ofthis advice is about
forgiveness. When we see flawsin others or wrongdoing in
others, we should forgive them,because they are also learning.
Everyone is on their own journeyfor growth and understanding
(18:29):
this help us to be morecompassionate and supportive. Is
not easy, but it is necessary.
Sherry Chan (18:36):
Yeah, I think compassion should extend to
ourselves too, right? So,
Si Xie (18:40):
Yes, absolutely,
Sherry Chan (18:41):
yes, yes. So
Si Xie (18:44):
Sometimes we too hard on ourselves.
Sherry Chan (18:46):
Definitely, definitely be at fault for that
one too. And I liked what yousaid. It was full circle, every
day is a new day. And Karenstarted her remarks with how she
wanted every day to be adifferent day. So Well, thank
you, ladies. Karen, Si thanksfor stopping by today to talk to
us about your professionaljourneys.
Karen Burnett (19:05):
Thank you so much, Sherry. It's been my
absolute pleasure.
Si Xie (19:09):
Well, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure
to speak and learn from both ofyou.
Sherry Chan (19:14):
Well, likewise, definitely and listeners, please
feel free to share this podcaston your social media with others
who are interested in the SOApodcast. And if you like, use
the hashtag actuary research,one word so others interested
can find it, and please send usyour feedback, comments,
suggestions via email atresearch insights with an S on
(19:36):
the end@soa.org and thanks againto our guests today, Karen
Burnett and Si Xie for spendingtime with us. Okay, everyone,
thanks for tuning in this week.It has never been a better time
to be an actuary for researchinsights podcast, I'm Sherry
Chan for the Society ofActuaries Research Institute.
Rose Northon (19:58):
This was a podcast for the Society of Actuaries.
The views and opinions expressedin SOA podcasts are those of the
speakers or authors and do notnecessarily reflect the views of
their employers or the SOA. AllSOA meetings and educational
offerings are conducted incompliance with US federal and
state antitrust laws. Forfurther information, please see
(20:19):
the SOA antitrust complianceguidelines located online at
soa.org.
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