July 9, 2024 • 49 mins
Alana Tompson is a Melbourne cinematographer and the creative director of Said & Done Media.
She also hosts a podcast called Said & Undone which interviews creatives about what could be done – and is being done – to increase the diversity of the film, TV, media and advertising industries to make them a more inclusive place.
With her career commencing as a camera operator on Animal Planet's acclaimed series 'Whale Wars', Alana spent 100 days at sea in Antarctica capturing the intense clashes between the Japanese Whaling Fleet and the Sea Shepherd conservation group.
In 2015, she founded her own production company, Said & Done Media, with a clear mission to redefine industry standards. Emphasising inclusivity and diversity, Said & Done Media sets itself apart as a female-led production company prioritising varied perspectives among its crews and creatives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Host Tim Thompson (00:01):
Have you ever heard of a challenger brand? A
challenger brand is a company ora product that is neither the
market leader nor the nichebrand, but it is instead one
that aggressively pursues marketshare by challenging the status
quo. These brands typicallyposition themselves as
alternatives to establishleadership in the industry by
highlighting their uniquequalities or innovative
(00:22):
approaches or superior valuepropositions, which, of course,
then attract a loyal customerbase. And today on rev thinking,
we're gonna dive into the storyof a true challenger in our
industry, Alannah Thompson.Alannah's journey from
passionate dancer to visionaryfilmmaker entrepreneur is a
testament to the power ofchallenging the status quo and
leading with purpose.
You know, running a creativebusiness is not an easy feat,
(00:45):
and Atlanta shares thesechallenges by wearing mini hats
and learning business skillsthat aren't always innate to
creatives. She emphasizes theimportance of community support
in navigating these challenges.Much like challenger brands
thrive on understanding andmeeting the needs of its
audience. But one of Alana'smost remarkable achievements is
her intentional effort to hirewomen led crews, or I should say
(01:08):
her intentional effort to hirewomen only crews, providing
opportunities and addressinggender inequality in the
industry. This bold positioningchallenges the traditional norms
and highlights the value ofdiverse perspectives in
storytelling.
And in today's episode, Atlantaand I delve into these topics
and more, exploring theintricacies of leadership,
purpose, and then making animpact as a woman entrepreneur
(01:30):
in the film industry. I'm TimThompson, and this is rev
thinking, where creativeentrepreneurs get inspired and
equipped to thrive in business,life, and career. Let's join my
conversation with AlanaThompson.
Could you tell as a kid whoyou're gonna be? Like, the
person you know today makingthose decisions and having that
internal mental conversation, Isthat the same voice you've
(01:53):
always had?
Alana Tompson (01:55):
It's funny that you should mention this because
I've actually been thinkingabout this a lot lately. And I
was listening to a podcastpurpose, and they were saying
that your purpose is the thingthat was there when you were a
little child, the thing that youliked to do, the thing that
(02:16):
brought you joy. And it made mereally start to think about what
was it that really lit me up asa child. And it was always
storytelling because I was adancer from the age of 5. Loved
dancing, and the thing I lovedabout it is, like, using my body
to create shapes and movementsthat told a story and affected
an audience in a way and madethem feel something.
And I did that my whole life,and I just loved the energy and
(02:39):
the exchange between me and theaudience. And I actually ended
up doing a dance degree atuniversity, and it was in the
middle of my dance degree that Idiscovered photography and then
film. And so I changed my majorover to film and TV, and that's
how I got into film.
Host Tim Thompson (02:54):
But it's the expression. Right? You there was
an expression when you're adancer, this expression now that
you can feel, that's thestorytelling person inside of
you?
Alana Tompson (03:01):
Yeah. I had the realisation that it's the same
thing. Now I'm just dancing tothe camera. Oh. But it's the
exact same process.
And that's how I feel when I'mbehind the camera, when I've got
my shoulder rig. It's part ofme. I'm moving. I'm interacting
with the subject. It is thisbeautiful intuitive dance.
Host Tim Thompson (03:18):
That's amazing. What a great question.
I didn't even know if there'sgonna be such a great question.
Alana Tompson (03:22):
It's been on my mind so much lately about
purpose, and and I just youknow, you have that click and
you're like, oh, it has alwaysbeen there.
Host Tim Thompson (03:28):
Yeah. I personally had a drive of just
knowing, like, no matter what, Iwas gonna be in Hollywood. I
don't know. I can't as early asI can remember or as early as my
mom can remember, there was justsomething I was gonna all I
thought was this actor becausethat's all I could see. When
your kid is the person in frontof the camera.
So you wanted to be the personthat you saw on TV, but be
exposed to this industry and allits nuance and all this
opportunity to contribute and toknow actually whatever I wanted
(03:51):
to do was way gone before I evergot to Hollywood anyway. That
television or that film wasdidn't even exist anymore. It's
been amazing to have a career inan industry you love and then to
express this childlike desire.When I think of how people
become natural leaders, it'sjust that they're following
their purpose. And my belief isthat everyone has a calling.
(04:12):
Like, they're meant for thistime and this generation to do
something very specific.
Alana Tompson (04:16):
I agree.
Host Tim Thompson (04:16):
And for to tap into it and find it, I have
a feeling a lot of the maybecharisma that people see in you
or can feel in you and wannafollow, in your way is because
you're drawing that, becauseyou're so confident of who
you've always wanted to be, andthen you're allowing yourself to
be that person.
Alana Tompson (04:33):
Thank you.
Host Tim Thompson (04:33):
Do you feel like if you give yourself
permission, do you ever feel alittle bit like, I don't know,
an imposter? Like, oh, why iseveryone listening to me? Or do
you feel like it just comesnaturally?
Alana Tompson (04:43):
Doesn't doesn't every creative feel like that? I
feel like that's just part ofbeing a creative. Imposter
syndrome. I feel like it'sembedded into all of us. I think
particularly women as well.
Host Tim Thompson (04:54):
Why is that? What makes it why do you say the
that it's particularly women? Isthere some other cultural
element that makes that?
Alana Tompson (05:00):
I have 2 young sons, 2 and a 4 year old. And
you become very acutely aware ofgender and the roles that they
play and how they're enforcedupon children from a very young
age, even just in day care. Thethings that they come home and
say to me make me go, wow. Like,where did you get that from? And
it's just naturally there.
And there is this thing, if youlook at the clothing for young
(05:21):
children, you know, all the onesthat the boys have is, like, be
brave and, like, adventurer andall this kind of stuff. And the
ones for the girls are, like,cute, happy. And it's just,
like, from a very young age,reinforcing that men can be
these brave adventurers andwomen are just kind of cute and
happy and very passive. It'svery, like, you know, active and
(05:41):
then very passive, and so Ithink, subconsciously, that has
to feed in to us as we grow upand affect the way that we see
ourselves. And I notice in theindustry all the time that the
women are the ones that areundercharging, or all the time
that the women are the ones thatare undercharging, or when they
go for a job, they're the firstones to say, well, I haven't
really done that before.
You know, I'm not a 100%confident. Whereas I see the men
(06:03):
that I know are saying, yep, noworries, I can do that, and not
having any doubt in theirabilities whatsoever. And for
that reason, they get jobs andthey move ahead. And I think
that that naturally inbuiltsense of doubt in women does
affect us. I could be totallywrong.
That's just what I've seenthrough my kids. And it's like,
wow. It's it's just reallyobvious from a young age.
Host Tim Thompson (06:26):
I maybe, fortunately or unfortunately,
have the same family path asyou. I have 5 boys, like, no
girls. Woah. So I only have onegender experience also in
raising. And, of course, I'm thefather instead of mother too, so
I have a different perspective.
But my wife came from onlysisters. And so she had to come
to terms with the difference ofraising sons instead of, you
(06:46):
know, knowing who she was orraising daughters. One thing
that she'll point out is thatthere was more sound effects in
our house than ever in the housethat she grew up in. Yes. But
there are way more words in herhouse than in our in our house
because my boys don't use wordsto express things.
They use sound effects. So Ialways think that's, like, a
funny, like and I grew up withonly brothers, so I'd say, like,
(07:07):
that's that feels natural to me.But there is something
interesting about I, you know, Ithink that we're challenged
often in the roles that we havebecause we also can't change
them. Like, it's not necessarilyif that's the result of the
society, then who we become asleaders has that embedded in us.
(07:28):
So we have to be making otherchoices.
I would say, like, I know menwho aren't natural leaders.
Right? And you probably knowwomen who are not natural
leaders and then women who areand men who are not. So there is
something maybe when we comparegenders, but if you compare just
lead what makes someone aleader, we know we know what a
leader looks like regardless ofgender. I I always think there's
something interesting about howsociety we like leadership, and
(07:53):
we actually hunger for it.
We want somebody that is puttingthemselves out there and showing
us how to do something we allwant to accomplish. And when I
look at your posts and you'realways you're posting things
about the work you're doing, butyou also bring in life and
lifestyle. It's the reason why Ireached out to you. You seem to
be doing something thatnaturally is coming out as a
(08:14):
leader.
Alana Tompson (08:14):
Well, I would actually say it's not natural at
all. I feel uncomfortablesharing and posting and putting
myself out there on LinkedIn,but I know that it's an
important tool in growing abusiness, so I force myself
through that feeling of beinguncomfortable to do it because I
know how valuable it is whenyou're trying to grow, and
that's the phase that I'm in.And I know that you need to show
(08:36):
up, and you need to establishauthority, and let people know
who you are and what you'reabout and what you stand for,
and so that's the process thatI've been going through. I
started with a business coach,Dan Lenny, just over a year ago.
And when I first started withhim, I had posted once on
LinkedIn my entire life.
So I had zero I had zerovisibility on there. Yeah, 0
(08:58):
followers, 0 visibility. And soI just started posting and
started digging and thinkingabout, well, what do I want to
say? Who am I? And also justgetting over the anxiety that
comes with speaking up andgoing, you know, it's actually
okay to be loud and to take upspace and to talk about what I
care about.
And so it's actually been quitea process to get to that stage.
Host Tim Thompson (09:18):
What are we seeing then? We're not seeing a
manufactured person. I thinkthat the person that's coming
out when you finally type thosewords, maybe you're not feeling
comfortable. But you have avoice inside your head that
knows what you're driven to do.Are you finding that people are
following you and asking youquestions about the work that
you're doing or some of the morestronger convictions you might
(09:40):
have or the type of effortyou're putting into something
and recognizing somethingdifferent in you and and
following you because of thatdifference?
Alana Tompson (09:48):
I mean, I can't speak to why people follow me,
but I do know that it's openinga lot of amazing conversations
with people, and it is bringinglike minded people to me, and
I'm finding fan like, meeting upfor coffee with amazing, you
know, producers and directorsand crew and people that run
other production companies. Andso I am having this amazing
(10:08):
networking opportunities comefrom it with people that are
very like minded.
Host Tim Thompson (10:12):
Who are some of your role models that you
know, as you strive to becomethe person you're becoming, that
you would wanna be like them?
Alana Tompson (10:19):
That is a great question. That's something that
I've been grappling with latelybecause, as I said to you, I'm
mother of a 2 and a 4 year old,and I run a production company.
And there's not really anyonefor me to look to that is like
me doing what I want to do. Ifyou know someone, please tell
(10:39):
me. But I don't really have rolemodels like that that are in a
similar boat to me running aproduction company on their own
whilst juggling kids.
So I don't have any role modelsthat I can look to at this stage
that are doing what I wanna bedoing. But I have had some
incredible mentors. DavidFinegan is one of them, who you
know well.
Host Tim Thompson (10:59):
I don't even. Yes.
Alana Tompson (11:00):
He has been fantastic in guiding me and
helping me through things, andhe's actually the the entire
reason why the podcast exists.He was the one that said, you
need to do it. You're sopassionate about this. Start
talking about it. Put yourselfout there.
And I was like, Oh, I don'tknow. People probably don't want
to listen to me. And he's like,Just do it. And I was like, Oh,
okay. And then he kept, like,sending little prompts and,
(11:22):
like, are you doing it yet?
Here's an idea. So he's thewhole reason why I even started
the podcast. So I would say he'sreally been an amazing guide for
me, but I am definitely lackingin role models and people to
look up to that I could seemyself in that are doing what I
wanna do.
Host Tim Thompson (11:39):
Well, first of all, I'm gonna agree with
you, David. He is I feel likehe's a great cheerleader. He is
a lovely and friendly person thefirst time you ever meet him.
But I also there's somethinginteresting about needing that
outside voice, a person you'dlove and trust that will give
you that feedback and you'rewilling to go along with it. You
know, there are other peoplethat would give you advice, so
you're like, thanks for theadvice, and you kinda just move
on.
(12:01):
And then there's those that youknow are guiding you towards the
person you want to be orrecognizing you for who you
actually are and then giving youthat direction and holding you
accountable. I think that's
Alana Tompson (12:11):
And believing in you as well.
Host Tim Thompson (12:12):
Yeah. Totally.
Alana Tompson (12:13):
I've come to terms with the fact that I
probably won't get a mentor, butit gives me even more energy to
be that mentor for the otherpeople that are coming behind
me. So I regularly meet up forcoffees with people who are
entering the industry or whowanna go from being a freelancer
to starting a production Youknow, there's all those things
(12:39):
that we've learnt through painand mistakes, and it's just so
easy to be able to pass thatinformation on to someone else
and help them avoid thosethings.
Host Tim Thompson (12:47):
I read a book about mentorship once and it
talks about the 3 strands of arope and talking about how your
your life is actually beenmentorship life as these three
strands of rope. And the one isfinding the person that's
further along than you, who'sgiving you a sense of, you know,
what it what happens next so youcan kinda guide yourself through
it and make smart choices. Andthen the second strand is your
(13:10):
peer group. So, it's kind oflooking to your left and to your
right and recognizing there areunique needs in your peer group
of just how old you are or howlong you've been in the industry
is just so different. And thenthe 3rd strand is you becoming
the mentor and bringing someoneup, because you learn so much
more by being a mentor.
You learn more about yourselfand someone's asking you
questions and being challenged.So it sounds to me like when you
(13:32):
stack up those 3, that you havesome of that going on for you.
The 3 strands are there.
Alana Tompson (13:37):
Yeah. For sure. And it's also it's so important
to look back at how far you'vecome, and I think being a mentor
helps you do that because you'relike, oh, I actually do know
what to do in this situation.And you can kinda have that self
reflection and see how far youhave come and grown.
Host Tim Thompson (13:49):
I guess I have a question for you, first
said and done, your business andthe the stuff you're doing. I'm
gonna ask an obvious questionmaybe to give the audience some
perspective of what I see inyour LinkedIn posts. And I think
I know the answer to it. I justwanna point that out there as
this question seems too obvious.In all the posts I see, there
are women on your crew.
Is it an all woman crew?
Alana Tompson (14:09):
They did some research recently in Australia
into camera crews, and the,research paper was called A
Wider Lens. And they looked atwho was in the industry and what
percentages they make up. And itfound that the industry,
particularly in camera, was 96%men. And that statistic, as a
female cinematographer, reallystruck me, and I was like, wow,
(14:31):
I think I need to make my crews96% women, and just flip those
statistics completely upsidedown and in some small way try
to balance out the imbalances inthe greater industry. So some of
my crews are all women, but wedo occasionally have a token
man.
Host Tim Thompson (14:47):
Oh, a token. Give me that.
Alana Tompson (14:49):
Just joking, you know. But going through our
industry, sometimes being thetoken woman, it's nice to kind
of flip that upside downsometimes. And so I do try to
prioritise women and genderdiverse creatives. And then
since starting to do that, I'vethen expanded out and tried to
look at other ways that I can bediverse. And it's bringing in
people with neurodiversities ordifferent, you know, gender,
(15:11):
sexuality, race, disability, allthose different kinds of things.
So I'm starting to try to becomemore, intersectional in my
approach to crewing.
Host Tim Thompson (15:19):
It's incredible. Because one is is
that we'll say, like, there'sprobably some easy ways of
getting projects done, notputting as much effort into it.
And you just find someone withexperience that you already
know, regardless of gender, andyou hire them and you always
hire them. And it perpetuateswho your crew is and therefore,
most likely 96% of them are menbecause that's the ones that you
(15:40):
have always used or whatever,without any making any conscious
decision to challenge yourselfand to move forward with a
vision and a purpose, and thenknowing that it works and it
would work because, one, youhave a vision that is going to
happen. But also taking andmaking a choice that other
people don't make.
There's a unique quality in thatability to do that. So was the
(16:01):
report the tipping point, thatresearch paper that you read?
Was that the tipping point formaking that decision?
Alana Tompson (16:07):
I think it just happened slowly over time.
Definitely seeing those resultswere like, wow. Like, I knew it
was bad. I didn't realize it wasthat bad. And, you know, any
type of crew that I'm on, I'malways the only female camera
operator.
It's very incredibly rare thatI'm there with another woman
unless I've hired them or I'vebought them on. And so it just
slowly became a thing where Iwas like, I just want to
(16:28):
diversify, at least my crews,because I think, at the end of
the day, the whole reason thatwe do what we do is because
we're storytellers. Right? Andhow can you tell a truly
impactful story if you're onlytelling it from one point of
view? So I think the morediverse people you can get into
a crew, the more diverseperspectives you can get, the
richer the storytelling becomesand, ultimately, the better your
(16:51):
final product is.
You know, for a lot of people,it's not like they're
deliberately trying to excludewomen. It's like, as you said,
it's just that they know men,and so men come on their crews
and they've worked together andit's easy. And I also understand
that it's not easy to find newpeople. You have to go through a
process of trialling them out.And even just to find diverse
creatives, it's you have tosearch harder, you've got to
look further, you may have tomentor them, you might have to
(17:14):
help them through.
It's not just a put them on crewand then off they go. You know,
they're gonna need your guidanceand help, especially if they're
new to the industry. So it is itis a commitment, and it is a
process. But I think it'ssomething well worth committing
to just, if nothing else, forthe sake of storytelling.
Host Tim Thompson (17:30):
I love the e is in the word commit. There's
an intentionality that'snecessary in order to change
things or do things differently.There's a a greater need for
something. Somebody has to makethe difference. And if you're
gonna if you're gonna dosomething intentionally and be
committed to it, you're clearlygonna stand out in the crowd.
So tell me where help me for amoment, right, and tell me where
(17:51):
I'm naive and understandingsomething that I I'm not gonna
know it from anywhere elsebesides you. And can I just say
it in a silly way or, like, in asimple way of just saying, like,
isn't it the same? I mean, don'tyou get the same results
regardless of gender? Or are youfinding you get different
results because you've made achoice and then you're seeing
(18:12):
the results of thatintentionality, where people who
aren't ever asking the questionor trying something different,
they'll never even recognizethere is a diversity in the
execution of the work.
Alana Tompson (18:23):
So recently, we did a job for Air Canada, and
they contacted me and said thatthey wanted No, it's totally
possible. I can get you an allfemale crew. No problem. And
they're like, really? Like, eventhe camera operators?
(18:43):
And I'm like, yeah. Soundies,camera ops, everything. It's
fine. It's no problem. I've gotthem all here.
We're ready to go. And they wereshocked that we could bring it
together that quickly. And wedid the shoot, and at the end of
it, the feedback that they theclient got from the people who
were interviewing was that theyfelt that the set was way more
nurturing, and they just feltmore kind of held and supported
(19:06):
in the process. It's not for meto draw comparisons between, you
know, certain types of people onset, but the feedback that we do
get the most often is thatpeople say that it's a more
nurturing environment.
Host Tim Thompson (19:17):
It sounds like you've discovered something
pretty amazing then. And and youwere intentional on doing
something, but you're seeingamazing results. Do you feel a
burden that you have to keep upwith it now? Like, do you always
do you have to stay with thatclear purpose? Or do you
personally know that you'vediscovered something and you're
open to a different direction inthe future if it presented
itself?
Alana Tompson (19:37):
Yeah. So it's not a burden because this is
something that I'm reallypassionate about. So for me, it
just it's just the way I wannaoperate. And it's not a burden
at all to keep doing it becauseit makes it's what makes me
happy. The podcast lights me upand makes me happy.
As I said to you, I don't evencare if anybody's listening.
Just being able to do it is soexciting, and to hear from all
(19:58):
these people that are pushingchange, I guess it definitely
ties into the entire reason thatI got into film, and I told you
it was a transition from dancingto film. But what actually
happened was that I watched adocumentary, and this
documentary had such anincredible impact on me that I
couldn't sleep the night after Iwatched it. And from the very
(20:19):
next day, it completely changedmy life around. And I thought,
oh my gosh.
If a documentary can have thatmuch impact on me, then film
just is such a powerful mediumfor change. And that's what made
me want to switch into filmbecause I was like, I want to be
a part of that. I want to be apart of pushing change and
making people feel something tosuch a degree that it it changes
(20:39):
their actions for the better,for the betterment of the world.
That sounds very grand, but,yeah, I have always been about
pushing change and trying tocontribute in some way, and
whether that's through activismor whether that's through, you
know, pushing diversity oncrews, in any small way, making
change for the better, it'ssomething that just excites me
(21:00):
and lights me up. So it's nevera burden.
It's it gives me energy.
Host Tim Thompson (21:04):
Yeah. I can you keep using the word passion
as a core that you know thatit's something that when you are
doing what you're supposed todo, it's comes very easy,
doesn't it?
Alana Tompson (21:14):
It feels different. It feels different.
Host Tim Thompson (21:16):
The things you're passionate about.
Alana Tompson (21:17):
Yeah. Your passion or your purpose. Things
just kinda fall into line, andyou seem to meet the right
people and everything just kindaworks and flows. You can
definitely feel when you're inalignment and when you're not,
don't you think?
Host Tim Thompson (21:27):
Yeah. Give me an example of when it you
weren't in alignment, where youknew that you're being
challenged and maybe you justneed to push through to to
deliver, but you were like, I Idon't wanna ever do this again.
Alana Tompson (21:37):
Yeah. I can give you an example right now, but
I'm not going to because it'swhere I could get a particular
client, in an industry that Idon't
Host Tim Thompson (21:44):
Don't give me details, but kinda give me give
me some sense of, somecharacteristics of some of an
issue that
Alana Tompson (21:51):
Okay.
Host Tim Thompson (21:51):
That's come up in the past.
Alana Tompson (21:53):
So yeah. I think, obviously, being in video
production, we work with lots ofdifferent clients and lots of
different industries. And togive you a really vague example,
there was an experience where Iwas working in an industry that
I didn't wholeheartedly support,and I could just feel in myself
that I wasn't happy. I wasn'taligning with my purpose. I
wasn't aligning with my beliefs.
(22:13):
It was going against my ethicsand what I believed in. And so I
think it's really important thatyou are working on projects that
you do line up with and that youdo believe in because you can
just feel that tension andfriction when it doesn't line
up, and it doesn't feel good.But when you're doing something
lines up with your ethics andyour beliefs, it just pushes
(22:36):
forward easier. And you justfeel happy. You feel at ease.
There's no friction.
Host Tim Thompson (22:42):
Choosing to work with creative entrepreneurs
instead of just entrepreneurialissues or whatever. I feel like
one of the things that I've inthat choice for me is to
recognize that creativeentrepreneurs have something on
the inside that have to comeout. It's often a client finds
that that they ask a creativeperson to come alongside them.
(23:02):
And what feels like trappedinside of that creative person
is the story has to come out,and they're gonna use whatever
means that they've been trainedto get it out or have this
natural skill to get it out. Soit might be acting or directing
or animating or whatever, butthat story has to come out.
When you apply that to theentrepreneurial edge that
they're trying to accomplish, Ialso find that there's a purpose
(23:23):
that they have that wants tocome out. And I often say it's,
you know, we get into thisindustry for fame, fortune, or
freedom. So there's this ideaof, like, I'm gonna go towards
that industry because I have theindependence to express my
thoughts, or I can use fame tobe an influencer, or, honestly,
there's some easy money in itcompared to other ways or other
(23:43):
positions that don't make us agood of, of a don't have as as
affluent of an opportunity tomake money. But I often find
like when working with acreative entrepreneur, they they
do have that limit you'retalking about. That when they're
outside of their comfort zone,only working for money, it
doesn't drive them.
And I often find like I don'teven personally, the
entrepreneurs that are onlygoing for the cash, the biggest
(24:06):
dollar amount without anyfilters, aren't the ones I jive
with as much. It's not the onesI connect with as much. Because
I think I've built more to tryto get the thing out of the
person and into the, into themarketplace then just, like, can
you make profit? You can maketons of profit. Right?
You can just basically, youknow, outsource work to people
and not pay them what theydeserve. You can make lots of
(24:27):
profit.
Alana Tompson (24:27):
Join the race to the bottom.
Host Tim Thompson (24:29):
Yeah. Exactly. Right. The commoditize
everybody and and own and you'reonly one that gains. So I feel
like you're recognizing thesimilar pattern yourself.
It's There's a passion andunderstanding and a filter that
says, hey, when finding purpose,real purpose, it aligns with
what you your goals or your yourconvictions that you might have.
And then if it doesn't,regardless if it's profitable,
(24:50):
even as a business person, itjust feels kinda yucky.
Alana Tompson (24:53):
There's definitely a balance there
between trying to grow yourbusiness and increase income and
then also work with the thingsthat you believe in that feel
good. It's it's definitely abalance, and it's not always
easy, you know, particularlywhen you've got kids, and you've
got to provide for them, andyou've got the cost of day care,
and you're trying to get yourfamily into a house and all
those things. You know? So itcan be easy to, kind of, look at
(25:14):
the the profit and the income,but then all of a sudden, you're
like, why don't I feel good? Andit's like, oh, okay, because you
haven't been doing these thingsthat feed your soul, and it's
finding that balance between the2.
And I think, for me, if I was towin the lotto tomorrow and I
didn't have to worry about moneyanymore, I would probably go
back to being a freelance DOPand not running a production
(25:36):
company and only working onimpact documentaries that make,
you know, a massive change inthe world. Like, that's what
would just light me up. I would100% do that for free. And so I
think that's when you know youfound the right thing, when you
know that if money wasn't anissue, you'd still be doing that
thing. But then, granted, youcan't always make money doing
that, so you have to then expandit out to being a production
(25:56):
company, but still finding thatthat balance within that.
Host Tim Thompson (26:00):
Oh, well said. And and gosh, doesn't that
that's the part that sucks aboutthe entrepreneurial thing is
that, yeah, I really wanna onlydo the passion projects. Right?
The freedom and the fameelements and the fortune thing
is, you know, not always onethat's driving me. But there is
an obviously a need of providingand sometimes you're saying yes
to projects or doing certainwork that, you know, some call
(26:23):
it trash for cash, like you'resimply just doing it for
payroll.
Alana Tompson (26:27):
It's hard. Right? Because we get into this
industry because we're sopassionate about it. But then
you grow up and you have kids oryou have a family or you wanna
buy a house, and it's like allof a sudden you've gotta make
money and you gotta beaccountable and you gotta pay
bills, and all of a sudden thething that you are so passionate
about becomes just a job. Andit's very hard to then find ways
to reignite that passion again.
But I think leaving a space to,like, take on a certain amount
(26:49):
of passion projects really helpswith that.
Host Tim Thompson (26:51):
Yeah. I told I mean, the the term starving
artist is a term because if youwere only the artist, there
seems to be a compromise foreverything else than just that's
that part. There is, you know,one of the things that we often
try to work with withentrepreneurs is this thought
of, like, you're actually makingall those choices. You have the
opportunity to make thosechoices and you can. I think
that some people get pulled intosomething so deep, and then they
(27:14):
wake up one morning wonderinghow they got down this certain
path or known for something thatwhen they started their career
or started their business, theyhad a different intention.
But this is where the money wasand they find themselves deep
into it. And so working someoneback out to finding that
passion, the term I often use ispurpose. If I know your purpose,
then you have a compass and Ican build you a roadmap back out
(27:36):
or build your roadmap to thatfuture, where if the purpose is
strong, that compass is verystrong. Actually, I think it
becomes like a magneticattraction, almost a true north
for other people. And that'swhat is driving you in that
leader position where otherpeople wanna see you and follow
you because you're like, wow.
Your your compass is so strong.Your sense of purpose is so
(27:56):
there. Can I wanna watch you andbe part of it and learn from
you? And then I it mightrekindle my my desire and my
purpose by watching yours.
Alana Tompson (28:06):
I don't know. It's funny. Every time you say,
you know, people are watchingyou and and, you know, saying, I
wanna be like that, it makes mefeel uncomfortable because I
don't particularly think thatanyone's watching me. I just do
it because I love it, and Idon't know if it resonates with
anyone else. And frankly, Idon't care.
It's just it's what I careabout, and hopefully other
people can tolerate it. But, youknow, I I can't do it any other
(28:28):
way.
Host Tim Thompson (28:28):
I think the I don't care is the filter. Yeah.
But you're because the I don'tcare is the filter because
you're saying, like, with youdidn't have to care about money,
you would do it. Like, the Idon't care is how strong it is.
It's black and white.
You know what to cut away whenyou when you wanna get rid of
it. But I think that the sensewhen you have a strong sense of
purpose, it does give youenergy. Right? That's one of the
(28:51):
key elements. It brings a lot ofjoy.
So fun is part of it, and itmakes you a lot of money or
makes you, let's say the rightamount of money, because you
don't have to go for a lot ofmoney. But it, it does provide
for you. There's just a need torecognize, especially as an
entrepreneur, and maybe that'sthe same idea of the balance
you're talking about is that themarket is asking you for
something. And if your purposealigns that you are created for
(29:13):
your time and your generation,then your generation is asking
for something and you'resupposed to do the thing for
your generation. So there issomething to push away from what
the market is asking from.
It can also be some of youholding yourself back. So I
think that you're you might befinding acceptance, like your
Air Canada example. Acceptancebecause the marketplace is
(29:34):
actually asking for something,and that is matches your
purpose, and so you're thriving,because of that. I
Alana Tompson (29:39):
think it's definitely the right time for
this. I think people have reallybeen focusing more on diversity
and that it's important to forall types of people to see
themselves on screen, but Ithink it's also equally
important for all types ofpeople to see themselves, below
the line, you know, making thecontent as well. So I think it's
definitely a time where peoplehave started to become a lot
(30:00):
more aware of that. There'sstill a long way to go, but it's
definitely starting to shift,which is fantastic. So I suppose
it is definitely the right time,but, yeah, we do have a long way
to go.
I spoke to I'm not sure ifyou're familiar with Gretchen
Waltham, her handle's ladycamera guy on Instagram. She's
an amazing camera operator fromthe States. You should
definitely look her up. But,yeah, she does a lot of work in
(30:25):
getting women onto sets and,like, shifting diversity. And
she was saying that she crunchedthe numbers recently and looked
at, you know, how many werewomen used to be on set and how
many shows were running and howmany camera operators there were
per show.
And then she looked at now howmany shows are running with
streaming and how many differentcamera ops there are and looked
at the percentages. And she saidthat, unfortunately, it doesn't
(30:46):
actually look like it's changedthat much at all. So she's
saying a lot of work actuallystill needs to be done. Like,
there's a lot of people, kindof, celebrating how much it has
changed when, actually, ithasn't really changed that much
at all. So there is a lot ofwork that still needs to be done
in in pushing that forwards anddiversifying our crews.
Host Tim Thompson (31:03):
So you're saying that we're only seeing it
more often, but it's actuallynot may having an impact as as
often as we're seeing it.
Alana Tompson (31:11):
But, yeah, I mean, there's so many more shows
now because because of streamingand so many more camera ops on
those shows. And, yeah, if youif you look at the numbers, it
actually hasn't changed thatsignificantly.
Host Tim Thompson (31:21):
Mhmm. That's interesting.
Alana Tompson (31:22):
It's a bit of a text statement. I don't know if
you should keep that in, butthat's what she was saying when
I, interviewed her on mypodcast. And, yeah, she
specifically tries to buildcrews and lists full of women
and gender diverse people topush them on. Like, that's her
whole thing. Her platform ladycamera guy on Instagram is just
basically a hype woman foreveryone and just pushing all
(31:43):
their content through.
And she's got about, I think,90,000 followers, and that's all
that she does, is just try toamplify other people's stories
and lift them up. So she's kindaall about that.
Host Tim Thompson (31:55):
All groups, all societies, all industries
need these, strong voices to putthemselves out there in order to
advocate for others. I thinkthere's a beautiful moment that
when you can get to that pointin your career where that you're
no longer, almost like in aMaslow hierarchy, you're no
longer worrying about justproviding for yourself or maybe
(32:17):
providing for the people thatare immediately dependent on
you, but you can push evenfurther and say, I'm not making
money off of this thing. I'mjust have a purpose. And I'm by
promoting others and pushing itout there, we all get stronger
together. So those voices in ourindustry, they're so amazing
when they come about.
You can respect them a 100%because you know there's a lot
of effort, unselfish effortbeing put into that kind of
(32:40):
promotion.
Alana Tompson (32:41):
Yeah. 100%. And I think that definitely coincides
with when you start to move intothat mentor phase as well.
Host Tim Thompson (32:46):
Yeah. Exactly. When I think of legacy
and purpose, right, a lot of us,you know, when we first get
started in our naive way, wethink legacy and purpose is like
holding a statuette in our handsand thanking our our agent and
our mom for getting us here. Asyou live out the career, you
realize, no, it's the peoplewe're standing next to and
(33:07):
building them up is a much sucha greater purpose than just, I
don't know, pulling attention toyourself. And that concern for
others and empathy for thoseother voices and knowing, like,
wait a second, this is my momentto speak up or my moment to do
something.
Alana Tompson (33:22):
I think when you've been speaking up for a
long time too, you get tiredwhen you get into your forties
and start getting a bit older.And I think that's So I think it
is important to, like, nurturethose people coming up and and
to get them ready for their timeto to take over when we can step
(33:45):
back in our rocking chairs.Well, that's
Host Tim Thompson (33:46):
how we got to where we were. Somebody somebody
gave it to us. Right? That'swhere the somebody saw something
in us and said, hey. I I have anopportunity.
I'm gonna give it to you. So nowit's our turn as we get older to
to pass it on to the nextgeneration and be intentional
about that, not just keep it allto ourselves or whatever. Yeah.
Alana Tompson (34:04):
100%. And there is a lot of that kinda guarding
in our industries, isn't there?I find that so often. And it's
like, actually, no matter whatyou're doing, whether it's like
mentorship or speaking out aboutsomething or going for jobs or
whatever, you know, like, comingat it from a point of
generosity, just everythingflows and works so much better.
But when you have that thatmentality of closing yourself in
(34:26):
and keeping it all to yourself,it just doesn't seem to you see
people who do that, and theydon't seem to do too well.
I think coming at it from apoint of generosity and sharing,
no matter what it is that you'redoing or what aspect you're
working on, it just everythingflows so much better.
Host Tim Thompson (34:41):
Yeah. I think it's there are desperate people
that as they get older and theyhaven't earned what they needed
to or done what they're supposedto do, I find that they're they
become bigger and bigger takersbecause they think they either
deserve it because they've putall that time and effort into
it, or they are desperate andthey're trying to capture the
(35:01):
last pieces before their careerfinishes. And you can definitely
feel that energy in thosecompanies or those leaders when
they're doing that, opposed tothose who, no matter what
situation they're in, theyrecognize the value is in other
people. And knowing and, meetingthem and building them up are is
the greater purpose.
Alana Tompson (35:19):
A 100%. I come across those people a fair bit,
actually, and you can reallytell.
Host Tim Thompson (35:26):
Yeah. It's, it becomes I don't know, their
sales tactics become they sounda little bit more desperate.
Their desire to connect, feels alittle bit more superficial.
Empty. Yeah.
Empty. Yeah. Instead of, I don'tknow, I think when you're
investing in someone else'sstory. And so there's a desire
to have that little girl insideof you who wanted to grow up and
(35:46):
tell stories to then recognizeit's not just your story, but
other stories that you cancapture and pull out of others.
It's like a it's morefulfilling.
Alana Tompson (35:56):
And there's a story on the screen, but I think
that the story that happensbehind the camera, behind the
screen is equally important, andthat's the story in and of
itself.
Host Tim Thompson (36:05):
I've raised my kids to be appreciators of
the auteur. So it's thefilmmaker and the story it takes
to get that film on the screenand how that director was able
to convince that studio to backthem up to leverage 3 films to
get to that 4th film, and to getthese actors that they've
(36:27):
collected over the years andthese little projects to get
these big projects done. All ofthat is hard, long term work and
to appreciate the effort thatsome of these filmmakers really
put into it. I so I think you'reright. It's it's greater to
appreciate the artist in thatform than just the art itself.
Alana Tompson (36:43):
Mhmm. 100%.
Host Tim Thompson (36:44):
Alright. So what comes next? What do you
desire to have, change becauseyou were around and made the
effort to to make that change?
Alana Tompson (36:51):
Do you mean on broader picture or in my
business?
Host Tim Thompson (36:55):
Let's say both.
Alana Tompson (36:56):
For me, personally, in my business, I
think it's just about movingforward and continuing through
this growth phase. I'm in a bitof a growth phase at the moment
that's uncomfortable and hurts alittle bit. Things are
stretching, so I'm just goingthrough that, one foot in front
of the other at the moment. I'dlove to come out the side of
that and be in a place that's alittle bit easier and where I'm
(37:19):
not so much on the verge of aburnout all the time. So I'm
really looking forward to justgetting through this particular
phase, which I know you'reprobably very familiar with,
moving into a place wherethere's more support and it's a
little bit easier, andpotentially stepping back off
the tools a little bit more aswell.
And big picture, I want to justkeep doing what I'm doing, and I
(37:43):
really hope that through thepodcast and through meeting
these incredible people outthere that are pushing change
and doing things differently andtrying to disrupt the industry
and make it a better place, Ireally hope that through all
those little connections, itjust kind of creates a bit of a
momentum that maybe inspiressome of the younger people
(38:05):
coming up to to carry that onand that ultimately, our
industry just becomes morediverse and beautiful and open
and richer.
Host Tim Thompson (38:13):
You have a very strong understanding of who
Alana is and how she's going tomake a difference. And you're
gonna make a difference by beingexactly who you need to be to
other people. And alsorecognizing that you're willing
to, in a way, push throughwhat's a hard season right now
for your business in order tomake that contribution. So,
(38:37):
that's how you get to the otherside of the stretching goal is
that you have a goal evengreater than the one you're in
right now. And that's why youstretch and that's why you get
through the stress moment tobuild up that muscle.
Alana Tompson (38:47):
In the meantime, it's just staying positive,
continuing to take action andnot giving up, just keeping
Host Tim Thompson (38:55):
going. There's something so true about
that as an entrepreneur, isn'tit? The the not giving up days.
Because some days, you're justyour first thoughts in the
morning can be very stressfulthoughts, aren't they, when come
mornings.
Alana Tompson (39:06):
It's funny. I have a conversation with a lot
of people that I work with whoare in a similar situation, and
we all have this little fantasyof doing a really mundane job,
that has absolutely nothing todo with film. For me, it used to
be like moving to the hills and,like, selling homemade
moisturisers at a market. Forsomeone else, it's being a pizza
(39:27):
delivery driver. For someoneelse, it was being a lawn mower
driver.
And it's just the idea. I wannabe the, parking lot valet. There
you go. See? And I feel Put all
Host Tim Thompson (39:32):
this stuff in a tight spot, and that's all I
have to worry about.
Alana Tompson (39:40):
I feel like everyone in this industry has
this fantasy of this job thatthat doesn't require them to be
creative or to be stressed outor any of the things that it
does. And that's about havingcommunity and people who
understand that, that you can goand speak to. David Finegan's
been fantastic, like that forme. I say to him, I need to have
(40:01):
a lawnmower chat and talk to youbecause I'm feeling like
quitting again. And we can goand we can break it all down and
talk about it because it is itis stressful.
It is challenging to to keepgoing, and I think surrounding
yourself with like minded peoplethat support you and that
understand the struggles ofrunning a creative business is
so important.
Host Tim Thompson (40:19):
That's why, like, the systems and routines,
the method keeps you moving soyou know what the next step is
even if you're not ready for it.We call these the 2 AM issues.
Alana Tompson (40:27):
Uh-huh.
Host Tim Thompson (40:27):
Now that we have this community of nearly,
at the time of this recording,about 650 creative business
owners
Alana Tompson (40:36):
Wow.
Host Tim Thompson (40:36):
We can literally see that 2 AM is when
people are jumping on andthrowing out the question, is
everyone slow right now? Or doesanyone know how to do cash flow?
It's the darn thoughts that keepyou up at night or wake you up
in the middle of night or thefirst thing in the morning where
you're thinking, am I gonna getthat job? Is that pitch gonna
happen today? And it's thosefirst thoughts, like, wow, why
(40:58):
why did I choose this burden ofownership?
It wouldn't be just so nice tobe naive again and being
someone's employee and just,just doing the job at hand.
Alana Tompson (41:06):
And that's it. And I think that's why we all
have these, fantasies about jobswhere we aren't the boss, and
we're just doing a very simpletask for you know, the variety
and the you know, the varietyand challenges, and it's it's
(41:26):
what's exciting about it. So wewouldn't do it any other way,
but it's okay to have thatfantasy about something else.
But I just don't know if there'sany other job in the world where
people fantasise about being,what did you say? Was it a valet
driver?
Or, like, you know, just thesewhere you fantasize about these
jobs where someone tells youwhat to do, and it's just you
don't have to think, and it justsounds blissful, doesn't it?
Host Tim Thompson (41:46):
My valet driver fantasy actually was
because my office at ImaginaryForces was I had the back window
view of the parking lot. And oneday, I was absolutely stressed.
I mean, there's no there was nono doubt that it the task in
front of me was impossible, andI had to, like, find a moment.
And I looked down the parkinglot, and I saw the valet driver,
(42:09):
and I thought, gosh, I justwanna go park cars right now.
And it stuck with me.
But I swear, like, within 10minutes, I looked at that guy,
and he was super stressedbecause he had, like, 7 people
waiting. And I realized, damn,every job has that
Alana Tompson (42:25):
stress. You don't
Host Tim Thompson (42:26):
get you never it's just a fantasy.
Alana Tompson (42:28):
Right. When you first
Host Tim Thompson (42:29):
said do something.
Alana Tompson (42:30):
The valet parker, I felt a sense of calm. I was
like, that sounds reallyrelaxing. But yeah. You're
right.
Host Tim Thompson (42:35):
Yeah. Until the end of lunch hour, and then
you're stressed or whatever. Itjust all has it. Right?
Alana Tompson (42:40):
It's just our human existence.
Host Tim Thompson (42:42):
Game we play. So we're all we're constantly
almost out of breath, but it'snot drowning. It's you're just
on the 20th mile of yourmarathon. It's just you're out
of breath because there's moreto do, and you have a bigger
goal than where you are rightnow.
Alana Tompson (42:55):
I mean, you could stop the feeling of drowning by
just being comfortable with theway you are, just sitting and
not growing, you know, butnobody wants that. So that's the
conundrum, isn't it?
Host Tim Thompson (43:06):
Oh, that our industry will will take you.
There'll be somebody who competewith you or a technology that
will move faster than you, andyou're just not gonna be able to
make it. So it is the ride thatwe're choosing to be on. It's
kind of the fun part too,though.
Alana Tompson (43:19):
It is. Yeah. I love a good challenge. I love
having to think on my feet and,you know, I think the challenge
is, like, ultimately, we'recreatives. Right?
So our brain works in creativeways, and we wanna be hands on,
which is very different to beinga business owner or being an
entrepreneur. It's a totallydifferent set of skills, and so
it can be really uncomfortabletrying to learn those skills.
(43:41):
And it's almost like you need towear 2 hats because they're very
different ways of thinking,aren't they? And it's that whole
thing of getting out of yourbusiness to be able to work on
the business and change thatmindset and learn those new
skills.
Host Tim Thompson (43:53):
My theory is is that it even just not only is
it a different way of thinking,actually comes from a different
part of the brain where thebrain itself is looking for the
muse. It's looking for this,this moment. And it has to let
go because the spot where thatthing comes, shows up in the
brain is lower on the brainstemand it hijacks all rational
(44:15):
thought. Or in a way, you haveto let go of rational thought to
get there. But it's also in thesame part of the brain that does
fight and flight.
So I almost feel like, you know,as a creative person, you feel
like you're taking a riskbecause you have to go into that
place. And then, you know, ithas to be a safe place. And
there and when you get in there,you can explore and you can see
so much. But if I said, hey. Canyou be logical for a minute?
(44:36):
You know, it's just like arecord scratch, like, and I have
to pull you out of all thiseffort and work to go like, can
you just look at this balancesheet? And you're like, I don't
even like, you just wanna blowup.
Alana Tompson (44:47):
It's far too relatable, an example.
Host Tim Thompson (44:49):
Yeah. It's how it feels. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
It's really unfair. It's like,well, it's tax season. You have
to put on a different brain.You're like, I make a living
inside of this other space thatfeels very dangerous and very
odd edge. And when I find it,I'll know it's there, but I have
to keep on looking.
And you want me to look atsomething. Can't can't anybody
look at a balance sheet and justtell me if I'm okay. Right?
(45:11):
That's how you want to delegatethat decision.
Alana Tompson (45:14):
Yeah. Oh, that's the power of outsourcing that,
isn't it?
Host Tim Thompson (45:16):
You know? What I've learned is to make
promises to creative peoplethat, hey, if you follow the
lead, almost like the your ideaof a dance. If if, if you follow
the lead, I'm not gonna ask youout of turn. So you know what to
expect, and therefore, you comeprepared. You know what the
meeting is or what the purposeis or what the report's supposed
to do or what the decisionpoints are, they're not a
(45:38):
surprise to you.
So you can engage, make thedecision, and then go back into
your space instead of beingdisrupted. Like it's otherwise,
it's no one without thoseroutines or at those systems,
people just knock on your doorwhenever they need to knock on
the door, and you don't knowwhen to expect it, and it's
almost like a chaos for you. Youdon't know when to jump in and
(46:00):
when to jump out and thepressure's on here and the
pressure's on there and it justbecomes too much. Their company
is called Said and Done Media. Ilike the name said and done.
It is very fitting for, youknow, intention, purpose,
completion. But your podcast issaid and undone. You've
mentioned it many times, but Iwant people to know that the
(46:20):
said and undone is really youunraveling what it takes to get
the work done, isn't it?
Alana Tompson (46:25):
Yeah. Exactly. And just speaking to the people
that are doing amazing work inour industry and hearing their
stories and finding out what isbeing done and what still needs
to be done to make our industrya more inclusive place. So it's
really opening things up andhearing about what's going on on
the inside.
Host Tim Thompson (46:43):
It's so wonderful to have this
conversation with you. Thank youfor the work that you're doing
in our industry. Thank you forbeing the purposeful person that
you are. Making a promise toyourself and giving yourself
permission to to be the leaderthat you've become. And I know
you might say to me one moretime that, you don't you might
not feel like the leader thatyou are, but I'm watching you
from the outside.
(47:04):
David, introduced us, throughsocial media, and I can see that
the voices that need to be inour industry are coming through
you and your purpose. So thanksfor doing that.
Alana Tompson (47:14):
Thank you for saying that. That means a lot.
And thanks for taking the timeto chat. It's been fantastic to
connect 1 on 1 with you and heara bit about your story as well.
Host Tim Thompson (47:22):
I'm gonna download all your podcasts right
now, by the way.
Alana Tompson (47:25):
It's a work in progress, but do listen to the
lady camera guy 1 because she isover there, and I think you'll
find it really insightful. Andshe's actually really funny.
It's a great episode.
Host Tim Thompson (47:33):
You're gonna need more subscribers, so I'm
gonna hit that subscribe button.I'm going to tell everyone
listening to this podcast, youneed to hit 2 subscribe buttons
today. 1 to this rev thinkingpodcast, if you're not already
on there, but also to the Setand Undone podcast from Alana.
There's so many great storiesthat are taking place and we'll
keep on following each other astime goes on. But it's amazing.
Thank you again. And, we wishyou all the luck, and we'll
(47:55):
connect again sometime in thefuture.
Alana Tompson (47:57):
Thanks, Tim. See you later.
Host Tim Thompson (47:59):
Thank you for joining us for another episode
of the rev thinking podcast. Andthank you for being part of this
journey where we dive deep intothe heart of creativity and the
business behind it. If today'sconversation inspired you,
sparked an idea, or gave you atool to move forward, please
share it with someone else whocould benefit from it. Your
support helps us reach andempower more creative
(48:21):
entrepreneurs just like you. TheRev Thinking podcast is a
product of Rev Think and hostedby myself, Tim Thompson, founder
and chief revolution thinker atRev Think.
Don't forget to subscribe tostay up to date with our latest
insights, stories, andconversations. And if you're
looking to dive deeper intomastering the 7 ingredients of a
(48:42):
creative business, visit us atrevthink.com. Here, you'll find
resources, tools, and acommunity of like minded
business leaders like yourself.If you are a studio owner, join
us at revthink.com/community,and join our community of over
600 business owners learning,discussing, and sharing life
(49:02):
together. At Revthink, we'rehere to help you thrive in your
business, life, and careerbecause at Revthink, we believe
the best way to deal with thefuture is to create it.
So until next time, keepcreating, keep innovating, and
remember, your best work is yetto come.
Have you ever heard of a challenger brand? A
challenger brand is a company ora product that is neither the
market leader nor the nichebrand, but it is instead one
that aggressively pursues marketshare by challenging the status
quo. These brands typicallyposition themselves as
alternatives to establishleadership in the industry by
highlighting their uniquequalities or innovative
(00:22):
approaches or superior valuepropositions, which, of course,
then attract a loyal customerbase. And today on rev thinking,
we're gonna dive into the storyof a true challenger in our
industry, Alannah Thompson.Alannah's journey from
passionate dancer to visionaryfilmmaker entrepreneur is a
testament to the power ofchallenging the status quo and
leading with purpose.
You know, running a creativebusiness is not an easy feat,
(00:45):
and Atlanta shares thesechallenges by wearing mini hats
and learning business skillsthat aren't always innate to
creatives. She emphasizes theimportance of community support
in navigating these challenges.Much like challenger brands
thrive on understanding andmeeting the needs of its
audience. But one of Alana'smost remarkable achievements is
her intentional effort to hirewomen led crews, or I should say
(01:08):
her intentional effort to hirewomen only crews, providing
opportunities and addressinggender inequality in the
industry. This bold positioningchallenges the traditional norms
and highlights the value ofdiverse perspectives in
storytelling.
And in today's episode, Atlantaand I delve into these topics
and more, exploring theintricacies of leadership,
purpose, and then making animpact as a woman entrepreneur
(01:30):
in the film industry. I'm TimThompson, and this is rev
thinking, where creativeentrepreneurs get inspired and
equipped to thrive in business,life, and career. Let's join my
conversation with AlanaThompson.
Could you tell as a kid whoyou're gonna be? Like, the
person you know today makingthose decisions and having that
internal mental conversation, Isthat the same voice you've
(01:53):
always had?
Alana Tompson (01:55):
It's funny that you should mention this because
I've actually been thinkingabout this a lot lately. And I
was listening to a podcastpurpose, and they were saying
that your purpose is the thingthat was there when you were a
little child, the thing that youliked to do, the thing that
(02:16):
brought you joy. And it made mereally start to think about what
was it that really lit me up asa child. And it was always
storytelling because I was adancer from the age of 5. Loved
dancing, and the thing I lovedabout it is, like, using my body
to create shapes and movementsthat told a story and affected
an audience in a way and madethem feel something.
And I did that my whole life,and I just loved the energy and
(02:39):
the exchange between me and theaudience. And I actually ended
up doing a dance degree atuniversity, and it was in the
middle of my dance degree that Idiscovered photography and then
film. And so I changed my majorover to film and TV, and that's
how I got into film.
Host Tim Thompson (02:54):
But it's the expression. Right? You there was
an expression when you're adancer, this expression now that
you can feel, that's thestorytelling person inside of
you?
Alana Tompson (03:01):
Yeah. I had the realisation that it's the same
thing. Now I'm just dancing tothe camera. Oh. But it's the
exact same process.
And that's how I feel when I'mbehind the camera, when I've got
my shoulder rig. It's part ofme. I'm moving. I'm interacting
with the subject. It is thisbeautiful intuitive dance.
Host Tim Thompson (03:18):
That's amazing. What a great question.
I didn't even know if there'sgonna be such a great question.
Alana Tompson (03:22):
It's been on my mind so much lately about
purpose, and and I just youknow, you have that click and
you're like, oh, it has alwaysbeen there.
Host Tim Thompson (03:28):
Yeah. I personally had a drive of just
knowing, like, no matter what, Iwas gonna be in Hollywood. I
don't know. I can't as early asI can remember or as early as my
mom can remember, there was justsomething I was gonna all I
thought was this actor becausethat's all I could see. When
your kid is the person in frontof the camera.
So you wanted to be the personthat you saw on TV, but be
exposed to this industry and allits nuance and all this
opportunity to contribute and toknow actually whatever I wanted
(03:51):
to do was way gone before I evergot to Hollywood anyway. That
television or that film wasdidn't even exist anymore. It's
been amazing to have a career inan industry you love and then to
express this childlike desire.When I think of how people
become natural leaders, it'sjust that they're following
their purpose. And my belief isthat everyone has a calling.
(04:12):
Like, they're meant for thistime and this generation to do
something very specific.
Alana Tompson (04:16):
I agree.
Host Tim Thompson (04:16):
And for to tap into it and find it, I have
a feeling a lot of the maybecharisma that people see in you
or can feel in you and wannafollow, in your way is because
you're drawing that, becauseyou're so confident of who
you've always wanted to be, andthen you're allowing yourself to
be that person.
Alana Tompson (04:33):
Thank you.
Host Tim Thompson (04:33):
Do you feel like if you give yourself
permission, do you ever feel alittle bit like, I don't know,
an imposter? Like, oh, why iseveryone listening to me? Or do
you feel like it just comesnaturally?
Alana Tompson (04:43):
Doesn't doesn't every creative feel like that? I
feel like that's just part ofbeing a creative. Imposter
syndrome. I feel like it'sembedded into all of us. I think
particularly women as well.
Host Tim Thompson (04:54):
Why is that? What makes it why do you say the
that it's particularly women? Isthere some other cultural
element that makes that?
Alana Tompson (05:00):
I have 2 young sons, 2 and a 4 year old. And
you become very acutely aware ofgender and the roles that they
play and how they're enforcedupon children from a very young
age, even just in day care. Thethings that they come home and
say to me make me go, wow. Like,where did you get that from? And
it's just naturally there.
And there is this thing, if youlook at the clothing for young
(05:21):
children, you know, all the onesthat the boys have is, like, be
brave and, like, adventurer andall this kind of stuff. And the
ones for the girls are, like,cute, happy. And it's just,
like, from a very young age,reinforcing that men can be
these brave adventurers andwomen are just kind of cute and
happy and very passive. It'svery, like, you know, active and
(05:41):
then very passive, and so Ithink, subconsciously, that has
to feed in to us as we grow upand affect the way that we see
ourselves. And I notice in theindustry all the time that the
women are the ones that areundercharging, or all the time
that the women are the ones thatare undercharging, or when they
go for a job, they're the firstones to say, well, I haven't
really done that before.
You know, I'm not a 100%confident. Whereas I see the men
(06:03):
that I know are saying, yep, noworries, I can do that, and not
having any doubt in theirabilities whatsoever. And for
that reason, they get jobs andthey move ahead. And I think
that that naturally inbuiltsense of doubt in women does
affect us. I could be totallywrong.
That's just what I've seenthrough my kids. And it's like,
wow. It's it's just reallyobvious from a young age.
Host Tim Thompson (06:26):
I maybe, fortunately or unfortunately,
have the same family path asyou. I have 5 boys, like, no
girls. Woah. So I only have onegender experience also in
raising. And, of course, I'm thefather instead of mother too, so
I have a different perspective.
But my wife came from onlysisters. And so she had to come
to terms with the difference ofraising sons instead of, you
(06:46):
know, knowing who she was orraising daughters. One thing
that she'll point out is thatthere was more sound effects in
our house than ever in the housethat she grew up in. Yes. But
there are way more words in herhouse than in our in our house
because my boys don't use wordsto express things.
They use sound effects. So Ialways think that's, like, a
funny, like and I grew up withonly brothers, so I'd say, like,
(07:07):
that's that feels natural to me.But there is something
interesting about I, you know, Ithink that we're challenged
often in the roles that we havebecause we also can't change
them. Like, it's not necessarilyif that's the result of the
society, then who we become asleaders has that embedded in us.
(07:28):
So we have to be making otherchoices.
I would say, like, I know menwho aren't natural leaders.
Right? And you probably knowwomen who are not natural
leaders and then women who areand men who are not. So there is
something maybe when we comparegenders, but if you compare just
lead what makes someone aleader, we know we know what a
leader looks like regardless ofgender. I I always think there's
something interesting about howsociety we like leadership, and
(07:53):
we actually hunger for it.
We want somebody that is puttingthemselves out there and showing
us how to do something we allwant to accomplish. And when I
look at your posts and you'realways you're posting things
about the work you're doing, butyou also bring in life and
lifestyle. It's the reason why Ireached out to you. You seem to
be doing something thatnaturally is coming out as a
(08:14):
leader.
Alana Tompson (08:14):
Well, I would actually say it's not natural at
all. I feel uncomfortablesharing and posting and putting
myself out there on LinkedIn,but I know that it's an
important tool in growing abusiness, so I force myself
through that feeling of beinguncomfortable to do it because I
know how valuable it is whenyou're trying to grow, and
that's the phase that I'm in.And I know that you need to show
(08:36):
up, and you need to establishauthority, and let people know
who you are and what you'reabout and what you stand for,
and so that's the process thatI've been going through. I
started with a business coach,Dan Lenny, just over a year ago.
And when I first started withhim, I had posted once on
LinkedIn my entire life.
So I had zero I had zerovisibility on there. Yeah, 0
(08:58):
followers, 0 visibility. And soI just started posting and
started digging and thinkingabout, well, what do I want to
say? Who am I? And also justgetting over the anxiety that
comes with speaking up andgoing, you know, it's actually
okay to be loud and to take upspace and to talk about what I
care about.
And so it's actually been quitea process to get to that stage.
Host Tim Thompson (09:18):
What are we seeing then? We're not seeing a
manufactured person. I thinkthat the person that's coming
out when you finally type thosewords, maybe you're not feeling
comfortable. But you have avoice inside your head that
knows what you're driven to do.Are you finding that people are
following you and asking youquestions about the work that
you're doing or some of the morestronger convictions you might
(09:40):
have or the type of effortyou're putting into something
and recognizing somethingdifferent in you and and
following you because of thatdifference?
Alana Tompson (09:48):
I mean, I can't speak to why people follow me,
but I do know that it's openinga lot of amazing conversations
with people, and it is bringinglike minded people to me, and
I'm finding fan like, meeting upfor coffee with amazing, you
know, producers and directorsand crew and people that run
other production companies. Andso I am having this amazing
(10:08):
networking opportunities comefrom it with people that are
very like minded.
Host Tim Thompson (10:12):
Who are some of your role models that you
know, as you strive to becomethe person you're becoming, that
you would wanna be like them?
Alana Tompson (10:19):
That is a great question. That's something that
I've been grappling with latelybecause, as I said to you, I'm
mother of a 2 and a 4 year old,and I run a production company.
And there's not really anyonefor me to look to that is like
me doing what I want to do. Ifyou know someone, please tell
(10:39):
me. But I don't really have rolemodels like that that are in a
similar boat to me running aproduction company on their own
whilst juggling kids.
So I don't have any role modelsthat I can look to at this stage
that are doing what I wanna bedoing. But I have had some
incredible mentors. DavidFinegan is one of them, who you
know well.
Host Tim Thompson (10:59):
I don't even. Yes.
Alana Tompson (11:00):
He has been fantastic in guiding me and
helping me through things, andhe's actually the the entire
reason why the podcast exists.He was the one that said, you
need to do it. You're sopassionate about this. Start
talking about it. Put yourselfout there.
And I was like, Oh, I don'tknow. People probably don't want
to listen to me. And he's like,Just do it. And I was like, Oh,
okay. And then he kept, like,sending little prompts and,
(11:22):
like, are you doing it yet?
Here's an idea. So he's thewhole reason why I even started
the podcast. So I would say he'sreally been an amazing guide for
me, but I am definitely lackingin role models and people to
look up to that I could seemyself in that are doing what I
wanna do.
Host Tim Thompson (11:39):
Well, first of all, I'm gonna agree with
you, David. He is I feel likehe's a great cheerleader. He is
a lovely and friendly person thefirst time you ever meet him.
But I also there's somethinginteresting about needing that
outside voice, a person you'dlove and trust that will give
you that feedback and you'rewilling to go along with it. You
know, there are other peoplethat would give you advice, so
you're like, thanks for theadvice, and you kinda just move
on.
(12:01):
And then there's those that youknow are guiding you towards the
person you want to be orrecognizing you for who you
actually are and then giving youthat direction and holding you
accountable. I think that's
Alana Tompson (12:11):
And believing in you as well.
Host Tim Thompson (12:12):
Yeah. Totally.
Alana Tompson (12:13):
I've come to terms with the fact that I
probably won't get a mentor, butit gives me even more energy to
be that mentor for the otherpeople that are coming behind
me. So I regularly meet up forcoffees with people who are
entering the industry or whowanna go from being a freelancer
to starting a production Youknow, there's all those things
(12:39):
that we've learnt through painand mistakes, and it's just so
easy to be able to pass thatinformation on to someone else
and help them avoid thosethings.
Host Tim Thompson (12:47):
I read a book about mentorship once and it
talks about the 3 strands of arope and talking about how your
your life is actually beenmentorship life as these three
strands of rope. And the one isfinding the person that's
further along than you, who'sgiving you a sense of, you know,
what it what happens next so youcan kinda guide yourself through
it and make smart choices. Andthen the second strand is your
(13:10):
peer group. So, it's kind oflooking to your left and to your
right and recognizing there areunique needs in your peer group
of just how old you are or howlong you've been in the industry
is just so different. And thenthe 3rd strand is you becoming
the mentor and bringing someoneup, because you learn so much
more by being a mentor.
You learn more about yourselfand someone's asking you
questions and being challenged.So it sounds to me like when you
(13:32):
stack up those 3, that you havesome of that going on for you.
The 3 strands are there.
Alana Tompson (13:37):
Yeah. For sure. And it's also it's so important
to look back at how far you'vecome, and I think being a mentor
helps you do that because you'relike, oh, I actually do know
what to do in this situation.And you can kinda have that self
reflection and see how far youhave come and grown.
Host Tim Thompson (13:49):
I guess I have a question for you, first
said and done, your business andthe the stuff you're doing. I'm
gonna ask an obvious questionmaybe to give the audience some
perspective of what I see inyour LinkedIn posts. And I think
I know the answer to it. I justwanna point that out there as
this question seems too obvious.In all the posts I see, there
are women on your crew.
Is it an all woman crew?
Alana Tompson (14:09):
They did some research recently in Australia
into camera crews, and the,research paper was called A
Wider Lens. And they looked atwho was in the industry and what
percentages they make up. And itfound that the industry,
particularly in camera, was 96%men. And that statistic, as a
female cinematographer, reallystruck me, and I was like, wow,
(14:31):
I think I need to make my crews96% women, and just flip those
statistics completely upsidedown and in some small way try
to balance out the imbalances inthe greater industry. So some of
my crews are all women, but wedo occasionally have a token
man.
Host Tim Thompson (14:47):
Oh, a token. Give me that.
Alana Tompson (14:49):
Just joking, you know. But going through our
industry, sometimes being thetoken woman, it's nice to kind
of flip that upside downsometimes. And so I do try to
prioritise women and genderdiverse creatives. And then
since starting to do that, I'vethen expanded out and tried to
look at other ways that I can bediverse. And it's bringing in
people with neurodiversities ordifferent, you know, gender,
(15:11):
sexuality, race, disability, allthose different kinds of things.
So I'm starting to try to becomemore, intersectional in my
approach to crewing.
Host Tim Thompson (15:19):
It's incredible. Because one is is
that we'll say, like, there'sprobably some easy ways of
getting projects done, notputting as much effort into it.
And you just find someone withexperience that you already
know, regardless of gender, andyou hire them and you always
hire them. And it perpetuateswho your crew is and therefore,
most likely 96% of them are menbecause that's the ones that you
(15:40):
have always used or whatever,without any making any conscious
decision to challenge yourselfand to move forward with a
vision and a purpose, and thenknowing that it works and it
would work because, one, youhave a vision that is going to
happen. But also taking andmaking a choice that other
people don't make.
There's a unique quality in thatability to do that. So was the
(16:01):
report the tipping point, thatresearch paper that you read?
Was that the tipping point formaking that decision?
Alana Tompson (16:07):
I think it just happened slowly over time.
Definitely seeing those resultswere like, wow. Like, I knew it
was bad. I didn't realize it wasthat bad. And, you know, any
type of crew that I'm on, I'malways the only female camera
operator.
It's very incredibly rare thatI'm there with another woman
unless I've hired them or I'vebought them on. And so it just
slowly became a thing where Iwas like, I just want to
(16:28):
diversify, at least my crews,because I think, at the end of
the day, the whole reason thatwe do what we do is because
we're storytellers. Right? Andhow can you tell a truly
impactful story if you're onlytelling it from one point of
view? So I think the morediverse people you can get into
a crew, the more diverseperspectives you can get, the
richer the storytelling becomesand, ultimately, the better your
(16:51):
final product is.
You know, for a lot of people,it's not like they're
deliberately trying to excludewomen. It's like, as you said,
it's just that they know men,and so men come on their crews
and they've worked together andit's easy. And I also understand
that it's not easy to find newpeople. You have to go through a
process of trialling them out.And even just to find diverse
creatives, it's you have tosearch harder, you've got to
look further, you may have tomentor them, you might have to
(17:14):
help them through.
It's not just a put them on crewand then off they go. You know,
they're gonna need your guidanceand help, especially if they're
new to the industry. So it is itis a commitment, and it is a
process. But I think it'ssomething well worth committing
to just, if nothing else, forthe sake of storytelling.
Host Tim Thompson (17:30):
I love the e is in the word commit. There's
an intentionality that'snecessary in order to change
things or do things differently.There's a a greater need for
something. Somebody has to makethe difference. And if you're
gonna if you're gonna dosomething intentionally and be
committed to it, you're clearlygonna stand out in the crowd.
So tell me where help me for amoment, right, and tell me where
(17:51):
I'm naive and understandingsomething that I I'm not gonna
know it from anywhere elsebesides you. And can I just say
it in a silly way or, like, in asimple way of just saying, like,
isn't it the same? I mean, don'tyou get the same results
regardless of gender? Or are youfinding you get different
results because you've made achoice and then you're seeing
(18:12):
the results of thatintentionality, where people who
aren't ever asking the questionor trying something different,
they'll never even recognizethere is a diversity in the
execution of the work.
Alana Tompson (18:23):
So recently, we did a job for Air Canada, and
they contacted me and said thatthey wanted No, it's totally
possible. I can get you an allfemale crew. No problem. And
they're like, really? Like, eventhe camera operators?
(18:43):
And I'm like, yeah. Soundies,camera ops, everything. It's
fine. It's no problem. I've gotthem all here.
We're ready to go. And they wereshocked that we could bring it
together that quickly. And wedid the shoot, and at the end of
it, the feedback that they theclient got from the people who
were interviewing was that theyfelt that the set was way more
nurturing, and they just feltmore kind of held and supported
(19:06):
in the process. It's not for meto draw comparisons between, you
know, certain types of people onset, but the feedback that we do
get the most often is thatpeople say that it's a more
nurturing environment.
Host Tim Thompson (19:17):
It sounds like you've discovered something
pretty amazing then. And and youwere intentional on doing
something, but you're seeingamazing results. Do you feel a
burden that you have to keep upwith it now? Like, do you always
do you have to stay with thatclear purpose? Or do you
personally know that you'vediscovered something and you're
open to a different direction inthe future if it presented
itself?
Alana Tompson (19:37):
Yeah. So it's not a burden because this is
something that I'm reallypassionate about. So for me, it
just it's just the way I wannaoperate. And it's not a burden
at all to keep doing it becauseit makes it's what makes me
happy. The podcast lights me upand makes me happy.
As I said to you, I don't evencare if anybody's listening.
Just being able to do it is soexciting, and to hear from all
(19:58):
these people that are pushingchange, I guess it definitely
ties into the entire reason thatI got into film, and I told you
it was a transition from dancingto film. But what actually
happened was that I watched adocumentary, and this
documentary had such anincredible impact on me that I
couldn't sleep the night after Iwatched it. And from the very
(20:19):
next day, it completely changedmy life around. And I thought,
oh my gosh.
If a documentary can have thatmuch impact on me, then film
just is such a powerful mediumfor change. And that's what made
me want to switch into filmbecause I was like, I want to be
a part of that. I want to be apart of pushing change and
making people feel something tosuch a degree that it it changes
(20:39):
their actions for the better,for the betterment of the world.
That sounds very grand, but,yeah, I have always been about
pushing change and trying tocontribute in some way, and
whether that's through activismor whether that's through, you
know, pushing diversity oncrews, in any small way, making
change for the better, it'ssomething that just excites me
(21:00):
and lights me up. So it's nevera burden.
It's it gives me energy.
Host Tim Thompson (21:04):
Yeah. I can you keep using the word passion
as a core that you know thatit's something that when you are
doing what you're supposed todo, it's comes very easy,
doesn't it?
Alana Tompson (21:14):
It feels different. It feels different.
Host Tim Thompson (21:16):
The things you're passionate about.
Alana Tompson (21:17):
Yeah. Your passion or your purpose. Things
just kinda fall into line, andyou seem to meet the right
people and everything just kindaworks and flows. You can
definitely feel when you're inalignment and when you're not,
don't you think?
Host Tim Thompson (21:27):
Yeah. Give me an example of when it you
weren't in alignment, where youknew that you're being
challenged and maybe you justneed to push through to to
deliver, but you were like, I Idon't wanna ever do this again.
Alana Tompson (21:37):
Yeah. I can give you an example right now, but
I'm not going to because it'swhere I could get a particular
client, in an industry that Idon't
Host Tim Thompson (21:44):
Don't give me details, but kinda give me give
me some sense of, somecharacteristics of some of an
issue that
Alana Tompson (21:51):
Okay.
Host Tim Thompson (21:51):
That's come up in the past.
Alana Tompson (21:53):
So yeah. I think, obviously, being in video
production, we work with lots ofdifferent clients and lots of
different industries. And togive you a really vague example,
there was an experience where Iwas working in an industry that
I didn't wholeheartedly support,and I could just feel in myself
that I wasn't happy. I wasn'taligning with my purpose. I
wasn't aligning with my beliefs.
(22:13):
It was going against my ethicsand what I believed in. And so I
think it's really important thatyou are working on projects that
you do line up with and that youdo believe in because you can
just feel that tension andfriction when it doesn't line
up, and it doesn't feel good.But when you're doing something
lines up with your ethics andyour beliefs, it just pushes
(22:36):
forward easier. And you justfeel happy. You feel at ease.
There's no friction.
Host Tim Thompson (22:42):
Choosing to work with creative entrepreneurs
instead of just entrepreneurialissues or whatever. I feel like
one of the things that I've inthat choice for me is to
recognize that creativeentrepreneurs have something on
the inside that have to comeout. It's often a client finds
that that they ask a creativeperson to come alongside them.
(23:02):
And what feels like trappedinside of that creative person
is the story has to come out,and they're gonna use whatever
means that they've been trainedto get it out or have this
natural skill to get it out. Soit might be acting or directing
or animating or whatever, butthat story has to come out.
When you apply that to theentrepreneurial edge that
they're trying to accomplish, Ialso find that there's a purpose
(23:23):
that they have that wants tocome out. And I often say it's,
you know, we get into thisindustry for fame, fortune, or
freedom. So there's this ideaof, like, I'm gonna go towards
that industry because I have theindependence to express my
thoughts, or I can use fame tobe an influencer, or, honestly,
there's some easy money in itcompared to other ways or other
(23:43):
positions that don't make us agood of, of a don't have as as
affluent of an opportunity tomake money. But I often find
like when working with acreative entrepreneur, they they
do have that limit you'retalking about. That when they're
outside of their comfort zone,only working for money, it
doesn't drive them.
And I often find like I don'teven personally, the
entrepreneurs that are onlygoing for the cash, the biggest
(24:06):
dollar amount without anyfilters, aren't the ones I jive
with as much. It's not the onesI connect with as much. Because
I think I've built more to tryto get the thing out of the
person and into the, into themarketplace then just, like, can
you make profit? You can maketons of profit. Right?
You can just basically, youknow, outsource work to people
and not pay them what theydeserve. You can make lots of
(24:27):
profit.
Alana Tompson (24:27):
Join the race to the bottom.
Host Tim Thompson (24:29):
Yeah. Exactly. Right. The commoditize
everybody and and own and you'reonly one that gains. So I feel
like you're recognizing thesimilar pattern yourself.
It's There's a passion andunderstanding and a filter that
says, hey, when finding purpose,real purpose, it aligns with
what you your goals or your yourconvictions that you might have.
And then if it doesn't,regardless if it's profitable,
(24:50):
even as a business person, itjust feels kinda yucky.
Alana Tompson (24:53):
There's definitely a balance there
between trying to grow yourbusiness and increase income and
then also work with the thingsthat you believe in that feel
good. It's it's definitely abalance, and it's not always
easy, you know, particularlywhen you've got kids, and you've
got to provide for them, andyou've got the cost of day care,
and you're trying to get yourfamily into a house and all
those things. You know? So itcan be easy to, kind of, look at
(25:14):
the the profit and the income,but then all of a sudden, you're
like, why don't I feel good? Andit's like, oh, okay, because you
haven't been doing these thingsthat feed your soul, and it's
finding that balance between the2.
And I think, for me, if I was towin the lotto tomorrow and I
didn't have to worry about moneyanymore, I would probably go
back to being a freelance DOPand not running a production
(25:36):
company and only working onimpact documentaries that make,
you know, a massive change inthe world. Like, that's what
would just light me up. I would100% do that for free. And so I
think that's when you know youfound the right thing, when you
know that if money wasn't anissue, you'd still be doing that
thing. But then, granted, youcan't always make money doing
that, so you have to then expandit out to being a production
(25:56):
company, but still finding thatthat balance within that.
Host Tim Thompson (26:00):
Oh, well said. And and gosh, doesn't that
that's the part that sucks aboutthe entrepreneurial thing is
that, yeah, I really wanna onlydo the passion projects. Right?
The freedom and the fameelements and the fortune thing
is, you know, not always onethat's driving me. But there is
an obviously a need of providingand sometimes you're saying yes
to projects or doing certainwork that, you know, some call
(26:23):
it trash for cash, like you'resimply just doing it for
payroll.
Alana Tompson (26:27):
It's hard. Right? Because we get into this
industry because we're sopassionate about it. But then
you grow up and you have kids oryou have a family or you wanna
buy a house, and it's like allof a sudden you've gotta make
money and you gotta beaccountable and you gotta pay
bills, and all of a sudden thething that you are so passionate
about becomes just a job. Andit's very hard to then find ways
to reignite that passion again.
But I think leaving a space to,like, take on a certain amount
(26:49):
of passion projects really helpswith that.
Host Tim Thompson (26:51):
Yeah. I told I mean, the the term starving
artist is a term because if youwere only the artist, there
seems to be a compromise foreverything else than just that's
that part. There is, you know,one of the things that we often
try to work with withentrepreneurs is this thought
of, like, you're actually makingall those choices. You have the
opportunity to make thosechoices and you can. I think
that some people get pulled intosomething so deep, and then they
(27:14):
wake up one morning wonderinghow they got down this certain
path or known for something thatwhen they started their career
or started their business, theyhad a different intention.
But this is where the money wasand they find themselves deep
into it. And so working someoneback out to finding that
passion, the term I often use ispurpose. If I know your purpose,
then you have a compass and Ican build you a roadmap back out
(27:36):
or build your roadmap to thatfuture, where if the purpose is
strong, that compass is verystrong. Actually, I think it
becomes like a magneticattraction, almost a true north
for other people. And that'swhat is driving you in that
leader position where otherpeople wanna see you and follow
you because you're like, wow.
Your your compass is so strong.Your sense of purpose is so
(27:56):
there. Can I wanna watch you andbe part of it and learn from
you? And then I it mightrekindle my my desire and my
purpose by watching yours.
Alana Tompson (28:06):
I don't know. It's funny. Every time you say,
you know, people are watchingyou and and, you know, saying, I
wanna be like that, it makes mefeel uncomfortable because I
don't particularly think thatanyone's watching me. I just do
it because I love it, and Idon't know if it resonates with
anyone else. And frankly, Idon't care.
It's just it's what I careabout, and hopefully other
people can tolerate it. But, youknow, I I can't do it any other
(28:28):
way.
Host Tim Thompson (28:28):
I think the I don't care is the filter. Yeah.
But you're because the I don'tcare is the filter because
you're saying, like, with youdidn't have to care about money,
you would do it. Like, the Idon't care is how strong it is.
It's black and white.
You know what to cut away whenyou when you wanna get rid of
it. But I think that the sensewhen you have a strong sense of
purpose, it does give youenergy. Right? That's one of the
(28:51):
key elements. It brings a lot ofjoy.
So fun is part of it, and itmakes you a lot of money or
makes you, let's say the rightamount of money, because you
don't have to go for a lot ofmoney. But it, it does provide
for you. There's just a need torecognize, especially as an
entrepreneur, and maybe that'sthe same idea of the balance
you're talking about is that themarket is asking you for
something. And if your purposealigns that you are created for
(29:13):
your time and your generation,then your generation is asking
for something and you'resupposed to do the thing for
your generation. So there issomething to push away from what
the market is asking from.
It can also be some of youholding yourself back. So I
think that you're you might befinding acceptance, like your
Air Canada example. Acceptancebecause the marketplace is
(29:34):
actually asking for something,and that is matches your
purpose, and so you're thriving,because of that. I
Alana Tompson (29:39):
think it's definitely the right time for
this. I think people have reallybeen focusing more on diversity
and that it's important to forall types of people to see
themselves on screen, but Ithink it's also equally
important for all types ofpeople to see themselves, below
the line, you know, making thecontent as well. So I think it's
definitely a time where peoplehave started to become a lot
(30:00):
more aware of that. There'sstill a long way to go, but it's
definitely starting to shift,which is fantastic. So I suppose
it is definitely the right time,but, yeah, we do have a long way
to go.
I spoke to I'm not sure ifyou're familiar with Gretchen
Waltham, her handle's ladycamera guy on Instagram. She's
an amazing camera operator fromthe States. You should
definitely look her up. But,yeah, she does a lot of work in
(30:25):
getting women onto sets and,like, shifting diversity. And
she was saying that she crunchedthe numbers recently and looked
at, you know, how many werewomen used to be on set and how
many shows were running and howmany camera operators there were
per show.
And then she looked at now howmany shows are running with
streaming and how many differentcamera ops there are and looked
at the percentages. And she saidthat, unfortunately, it doesn't
(30:46):
actually look like it's changedthat much at all. So she's
saying a lot of work actuallystill needs to be done. Like,
there's a lot of people, kindof, celebrating how much it has
changed when, actually, ithasn't really changed that much
at all. So there is a lot ofwork that still needs to be done
in in pushing that forwards anddiversifying our crews.
Host Tim Thompson (31:03):
So you're saying that we're only seeing it
more often, but it's actuallynot may having an impact as as
often as we're seeing it.
Alana Tompson (31:11):
But, yeah, I mean, there's so many more shows
now because because of streamingand so many more camera ops on
those shows. And, yeah, if youif you look at the numbers, it
actually hasn't changed thatsignificantly.
Host Tim Thompson (31:21):
Mhmm. That's interesting.
Alana Tompson (31:22):
It's a bit of a text statement. I don't know if
you should keep that in, butthat's what she was saying when
I, interviewed her on mypodcast. And, yeah, she
specifically tries to buildcrews and lists full of women
and gender diverse people topush them on. Like, that's her
whole thing. Her platform ladycamera guy on Instagram is just
basically a hype woman foreveryone and just pushing all
(31:43):
their content through.
And she's got about, I think,90,000 followers, and that's all
that she does, is just try toamplify other people's stories
and lift them up. So she's kindaall about that.
Host Tim Thompson (31:55):
All groups, all societies, all industries
need these, strong voices to putthemselves out there in order to
advocate for others. I thinkthere's a beautiful moment that
when you can get to that pointin your career where that you're
no longer, almost like in aMaslow hierarchy, you're no
longer worrying about justproviding for yourself or maybe
(32:17):
providing for the people thatare immediately dependent on
you, but you can push evenfurther and say, I'm not making
money off of this thing. I'mjust have a purpose. And I'm by
promoting others and pushing itout there, we all get stronger
together. So those voices in ourindustry, they're so amazing
when they come about.
You can respect them a 100%because you know there's a lot
of effort, unselfish effortbeing put into that kind of
(32:40):
promotion.
Alana Tompson (32:41):
Yeah. 100%. And I think that definitely coincides
with when you start to move intothat mentor phase as well.
Host Tim Thompson (32:46):
Yeah. Exactly. When I think of legacy
and purpose, right, a lot of us,you know, when we first get
started in our naive way, wethink legacy and purpose is like
holding a statuette in our handsand thanking our our agent and
our mom for getting us here. Asyou live out the career, you
realize, no, it's the peoplewe're standing next to and
(33:07):
building them up is a much sucha greater purpose than just, I
don't know, pulling attention toyourself. And that concern for
others and empathy for thoseother voices and knowing, like,
wait a second, this is my momentto speak up or my moment to do
something.
Alana Tompson (33:22):
I think when you've been speaking up for a
long time too, you get tiredwhen you get into your forties
and start getting a bit older.And I think that's So I think it
is important to, like, nurturethose people coming up and and
to get them ready for their timeto to take over when we can step
(33:45):
back in our rocking chairs.Well, that's
Host Tim Thompson (33:46):
how we got to where we were. Somebody somebody
gave it to us. Right? That'swhere the somebody saw something
in us and said, hey. I I have anopportunity.
I'm gonna give it to you. So nowit's our turn as we get older to
to pass it on to the nextgeneration and be intentional
about that, not just keep it allto ourselves or whatever. Yeah.
Alana Tompson (34:04):
100%. And there is a lot of that kinda guarding
in our industries, isn't there?I find that so often. And it's
like, actually, no matter whatyou're doing, whether it's like
mentorship or speaking out aboutsomething or going for jobs or
whatever, you know, like, comingat it from a point of
generosity, just everythingflows and works so much better.
But when you have that thatmentality of closing yourself in
(34:26):
and keeping it all to yourself,it just doesn't seem to you see
people who do that, and theydon't seem to do too well.
I think coming at it from apoint of generosity and sharing,
no matter what it is that you'redoing or what aspect you're
working on, it just everythingflows so much better.
Host Tim Thompson (34:41):
Yeah. I think it's there are desperate people
that as they get older and theyhaven't earned what they needed
to or done what they're supposedto do, I find that they're they
become bigger and bigger takersbecause they think they either
deserve it because they've putall that time and effort into
it, or they are desperate andthey're trying to capture the
(35:01):
last pieces before their careerfinishes. And you can definitely
feel that energy in thosecompanies or those leaders when
they're doing that, opposed tothose who, no matter what
situation they're in, theyrecognize the value is in other
people. And knowing and, meetingthem and building them up are is
the greater purpose.
Alana Tompson (35:19):
A 100%. I come across those people a fair bit,
actually, and you can reallytell.
Host Tim Thompson (35:26):
Yeah. It's, it becomes I don't know, their
sales tactics become they sounda little bit more desperate.
Their desire to connect, feels alittle bit more superficial.
Empty. Yeah.
Empty. Yeah. Instead of, I don'tknow, I think when you're
investing in someone else'sstory. And so there's a desire
to have that little girl insideof you who wanted to grow up and
(35:46):
tell stories to then recognizeit's not just your story, but
other stories that you cancapture and pull out of others.
It's like a it's morefulfilling.
Alana Tompson (35:56):
And there's a story on the screen, but I think
that the story that happensbehind the camera, behind the
screen is equally important, andthat's the story in and of
itself.
Host Tim Thompson (36:05):
I've raised my kids to be appreciators of
the auteur. So it's thefilmmaker and the story it takes
to get that film on the screenand how that director was able
to convince that studio to backthem up to leverage 3 films to
get to that 4th film, and to getthese actors that they've
(36:27):
collected over the years andthese little projects to get
these big projects done. All ofthat is hard, long term work and
to appreciate the effort thatsome of these filmmakers really
put into it. I so I think you'reright. It's it's greater to
appreciate the artist in thatform than just the art itself.
Alana Tompson (36:43):
Mhmm. 100%.
Host Tim Thompson (36:44):
Alright. So what comes next? What do you
desire to have, change becauseyou were around and made the
effort to to make that change?
Alana Tompson (36:51):
Do you mean on broader picture or in my
business?
Host Tim Thompson (36:55):
Let's say both.
Alana Tompson (36:56):
For me, personally, in my business, I
think it's just about movingforward and continuing through
this growth phase. I'm in a bitof a growth phase at the moment
that's uncomfortable and hurts alittle bit. Things are
stretching, so I'm just goingthrough that, one foot in front
of the other at the moment. I'dlove to come out the side of
that and be in a place that's alittle bit easier and where I'm
(37:19):
not so much on the verge of aburnout all the time. So I'm
really looking forward to justgetting through this particular
phase, which I know you'reprobably very familiar with,
moving into a place wherethere's more support and it's a
little bit easier, andpotentially stepping back off
the tools a little bit more aswell.
And big picture, I want to justkeep doing what I'm doing, and I
(37:43):
really hope that through thepodcast and through meeting
these incredible people outthere that are pushing change
and doing things differently andtrying to disrupt the industry
and make it a better place, Ireally hope that through all
those little connections, itjust kind of creates a bit of a
momentum that maybe inspiressome of the younger people
(38:05):
coming up to to carry that onand that ultimately, our
industry just becomes morediverse and beautiful and open
and richer.
Host Tim Thompson (38:13):
You have a very strong understanding of who
Alana is and how she's going tomake a difference. And you're
gonna make a difference by beingexactly who you need to be to
other people. And alsorecognizing that you're willing
to, in a way, push throughwhat's a hard season right now
for your business in order tomake that contribution. So,
(38:37):
that's how you get to the otherside of the stretching goal is
that you have a goal evengreater than the one you're in
right now. And that's why youstretch and that's why you get
through the stress moment tobuild up that muscle.
Alana Tompson (38:47):
In the meantime, it's just staying positive,
continuing to take action andnot giving up, just keeping
Host Tim Thompson (38:55):
going. There's something so true about
that as an entrepreneur, isn'tit? The the not giving up days.
Because some days, you're justyour first thoughts in the
morning can be very stressfulthoughts, aren't they, when come
mornings.
Alana Tompson (39:06):
It's funny. I have a conversation with a lot
of people that I work with whoare in a similar situation, and
we all have this little fantasyof doing a really mundane job,
that has absolutely nothing todo with film. For me, it used to
be like moving to the hills and,like, selling homemade
moisturisers at a market. Forsomeone else, it's being a pizza
(39:27):
delivery driver. For someoneelse, it was being a lawn mower
driver.
And it's just the idea. I wannabe the, parking lot valet. There
you go. See? And I feel Put all
Host Tim Thompson (39:32):
this stuff in a tight spot, and that's all I
have to worry about.
Alana Tompson (39:40):
I feel like everyone in this industry has
this fantasy of this job thatthat doesn't require them to be
creative or to be stressed outor any of the things that it
does. And that's about havingcommunity and people who
understand that, that you can goand speak to. David Finegan's
been fantastic, like that forme. I say to him, I need to have
(40:01):
a lawnmower chat and talk to youbecause I'm feeling like
quitting again. And we can goand we can break it all down and
talk about it because it is itis stressful.
It is challenging to to keepgoing, and I think surrounding
yourself with like minded peoplethat support you and that
understand the struggles ofrunning a creative business is
so important.
Host Tim Thompson (40:19):
That's why, like, the systems and routines,
the method keeps you moving soyou know what the next step is
even if you're not ready for it.We call these the 2 AM issues.
Alana Tompson (40:27):
Uh-huh.
Host Tim Thompson (40:27):
Now that we have this community of nearly,
at the time of this recording,about 650 creative business
owners
Alana Tompson (40:36):
Wow.
Host Tim Thompson (40:36):
We can literally see that 2 AM is when
people are jumping on andthrowing out the question, is
everyone slow right now? Or doesanyone know how to do cash flow?
It's the darn thoughts that keepyou up at night or wake you up
in the middle of night or thefirst thing in the morning where
you're thinking, am I gonna getthat job? Is that pitch gonna
happen today? And it's thosefirst thoughts, like, wow, why
(40:58):
why did I choose this burden ofownership?
It wouldn't be just so nice tobe naive again and being
someone's employee and just,just doing the job at hand.
Alana Tompson (41:06):
And that's it. And I think that's why we all
have these, fantasies about jobswhere we aren't the boss, and
we're just doing a very simpletask for you know, the variety
and the you know, the varietyand challenges, and it's it's
(41:26):
what's exciting about it. So wewouldn't do it any other way,
but it's okay to have thatfantasy about something else.
But I just don't know if there'sany other job in the world where
people fantasise about being,what did you say? Was it a valet
driver?
Or, like, you know, just thesewhere you fantasize about these
jobs where someone tells youwhat to do, and it's just you
don't have to think, and it justsounds blissful, doesn't it?
Host Tim Thompson (41:46):
My valet driver fantasy actually was
because my office at ImaginaryForces was I had the back window
view of the parking lot. And oneday, I was absolutely stressed.
I mean, there's no there was nono doubt that it the task in
front of me was impossible, andI had to, like, find a moment.
And I looked down the parkinglot, and I saw the valet driver,
(42:09):
and I thought, gosh, I justwanna go park cars right now.
And it stuck with me.
But I swear, like, within 10minutes, I looked at that guy,
and he was super stressedbecause he had, like, 7 people
waiting. And I realized, damn,every job has that
Alana Tompson (42:25):
stress. You don't
Host Tim Thompson (42:26):
get you never it's just a fantasy.
Alana Tompson (42:28):
Right. When you first
Host Tim Thompson (42:29):
said do something.
Alana Tompson (42:30):
The valet parker, I felt a sense of calm. I was
like, that sounds reallyrelaxing. But yeah. You're
right.
Host Tim Thompson (42:35):
Yeah. Until the end of lunch hour, and then
you're stressed or whatever. Itjust all has it. Right?
Alana Tompson (42:40):
It's just our human existence.
Host Tim Thompson (42:42):
Game we play. So we're all we're constantly
almost out of breath, but it'snot drowning. It's you're just
on the 20th mile of yourmarathon. It's just you're out
of breath because there's moreto do, and you have a bigger
goal than where you are rightnow.
Alana Tompson (42:55):
I mean, you could stop the feeling of drowning by
just being comfortable with theway you are, just sitting and
not growing, you know, butnobody wants that. So that's the
conundrum, isn't it?
Host Tim Thompson (43:06):
Oh, that our industry will will take you.
There'll be somebody who competewith you or a technology that
will move faster than you, andyou're just not gonna be able to
make it. So it is the ride thatwe're choosing to be on. It's
kind of the fun part too,though.
Alana Tompson (43:19):
It is. Yeah. I love a good challenge. I love
having to think on my feet and,you know, I think the challenge
is, like, ultimately, we'recreatives. Right?
So our brain works in creativeways, and we wanna be hands on,
which is very different to beinga business owner or being an
entrepreneur. It's a totallydifferent set of skills, and so
it can be really uncomfortabletrying to learn those skills.
(43:41):
And it's almost like you need towear 2 hats because they're very
different ways of thinking,aren't they? And it's that whole
thing of getting out of yourbusiness to be able to work on
the business and change thatmindset and learn those new
skills.
Host Tim Thompson (43:53):
My theory is is that it even just not only is
it a different way of thinking,actually comes from a different
part of the brain where thebrain itself is looking for the
muse. It's looking for this,this moment. And it has to let
go because the spot where thatthing comes, shows up in the
brain is lower on the brainstemand it hijacks all rational
(44:15):
thought. Or in a way, you haveto let go of rational thought to
get there. But it's also in thesame part of the brain that does
fight and flight.
So I almost feel like, you know,as a creative person, you feel
like you're taking a riskbecause you have to go into that
place. And then, you know, ithas to be a safe place. And
there and when you get in there,you can explore and you can see
so much. But if I said, hey. Canyou be logical for a minute?
(44:36):
You know, it's just like arecord scratch, like, and I have
to pull you out of all thiseffort and work to go like, can
you just look at this balancesheet? And you're like, I don't
even like, you just wanna blowup.
Alana Tompson (44:47):
It's far too relatable, an example.
Host Tim Thompson (44:49):
Yeah. It's how it feels. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
It's really unfair. It's like,well, it's tax season. You have
to put on a different brain.You're like, I make a living
inside of this other space thatfeels very dangerous and very
odd edge. And when I find it,I'll know it's there, but I have
to keep on looking.
And you want me to look atsomething. Can't can't anybody
look at a balance sheet and justtell me if I'm okay. Right?
(45:11):
That's how you want to delegatethat decision.
Alana Tompson (45:14):
Yeah. Oh, that's the power of outsourcing that,
isn't it?
Host Tim Thompson (45:16):
You know? What I've learned is to make
promises to creative peoplethat, hey, if you follow the
lead, almost like the your ideaof a dance. If if, if you follow
the lead, I'm not gonna ask youout of turn. So you know what to
expect, and therefore, you comeprepared. You know what the
meeting is or what the purposeis or what the report's supposed
to do or what the decisionpoints are, they're not a
(45:38):
surprise to you.
So you can engage, make thedecision, and then go back into
your space instead of beingdisrupted. Like it's otherwise,
it's no one without thoseroutines or at those systems,
people just knock on your doorwhenever they need to knock on
the door, and you don't knowwhen to expect it, and it's
almost like a chaos for you. Youdon't know when to jump in and
(46:00):
when to jump out and thepressure's on here and the
pressure's on there and it justbecomes too much. Their company
is called Said and Done Media. Ilike the name said and done.
It is very fitting for, youknow, intention, purpose,
completion. But your podcast issaid and undone. You've
mentioned it many times, but Iwant people to know that the
(46:20):
said and undone is really youunraveling what it takes to get
the work done, isn't it?
Alana Tompson (46:25):
Yeah. Exactly. And just speaking to the people
that are doing amazing work inour industry and hearing their
stories and finding out what isbeing done and what still needs
to be done to make our industrya more inclusive place. So it's
really opening things up andhearing about what's going on on
the inside.
Host Tim Thompson (46:43):
It's so wonderful to have this
conversation with you. Thank youfor the work that you're doing
in our industry. Thank you forbeing the purposeful person that
you are. Making a promise toyourself and giving yourself
permission to to be the leaderthat you've become. And I know
you might say to me one moretime that, you don't you might
not feel like the leader thatyou are, but I'm watching you
from the outside.
(47:04):
David, introduced us, throughsocial media, and I can see that
the voices that need to be inour industry are coming through
you and your purpose. So thanksfor doing that.
Alana Tompson (47:14):
Thank you for saying that. That means a lot.
And thanks for taking the timeto chat. It's been fantastic to
connect 1 on 1 with you and heara bit about your story as well.
Host Tim Thompson (47:22):
I'm gonna download all your podcasts right
now, by the way.
Alana Tompson (47:25):
It's a work in progress, but do listen to the
lady camera guy 1 because she isover there, and I think you'll
find it really insightful. Andshe's actually really funny.
It's a great episode.
Host Tim Thompson (47:33):
You're gonna need more subscribers, so I'm
gonna hit that subscribe button.I'm going to tell everyone
listening to this podcast, youneed to hit 2 subscribe buttons
today. 1 to this rev thinkingpodcast, if you're not already
on there, but also to the Setand Undone podcast from Alana.
There's so many great storiesthat are taking place and we'll
keep on following each other astime goes on. But it's amazing.
Thank you again. And, we wishyou all the luck, and we'll
(47:55):
connect again sometime in thefuture.
Alana Tompson (47:57):
Thanks, Tim. See you later.
Host Tim Thompson (47:59):
Thank you for joining us for another episode
of the rev thinking podcast. Andthank you for being part of this
journey where we dive deep intothe heart of creativity and the
business behind it. If today'sconversation inspired you,
sparked an idea, or gave you atool to move forward, please
share it with someone else whocould benefit from it. Your
support helps us reach andempower more creative
(48:21):
entrepreneurs just like you. TheRev Thinking podcast is a
product of Rev Think and hostedby myself, Tim Thompson, founder
and chief revolution thinker atRev Think.
Don't forget to subscribe tostay up to date with our latest
insights, stories, andconversations. And if you're
looking to dive deeper intomastering the 7 ingredients of a
(48:42):
creative business, visit us atrevthink.com. Here, you'll find
resources, tools, and acommunity of like minded
business leaders like yourself.If you are a studio owner, join
us at revthink.com/community,and join our community of over
600 business owners learning,discussing, and sharing life
(49:02):
together. At Revthink, we'rehere to help you thrive in your
business, life, and careerbecause at Revthink, we believe
the best way to deal with thefuture is to create it.
So until next time, keepcreating, keep innovating, and
remember, your best work is yetto come.
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