The balance of personal growth and contributing to a thriving romantic relationship is all about being comfortable in your own skin, without seeking external validation, yet embracing our innate need for connection. It’s independence and interdependence…but not co-dependence.
I’m such a believer in this that I co-wrote an entire book about it called “You Grow Me” (link to buy below).
This episode is a cross-podcast with Lisa Carpenter’s “Full Frontal Living” podcast (find it here). Lisa is a remarkable coach who helped me through one of the most challenging periods of my life (I tell that story in this episode). Here, we focus on creating safety within oneself - reconnecting with the body, nervous system regulation and the massive importance of personal responsibility within a relationship.
In this episode, Lisa and I talk about:
- Creating safety within: the foundation of self-connection
- Self-discovery and healing from trauma
- The impact of childhood experiences on adult relationships
- Navigating jealousy and building trust
- The gender gap in personal development
- Detachment
- Why a healthy relationship can be as confronting as a traumatic one
- Learning to listen to your intuition
- The presence of exes in a new relationship
- The grief of finally getting what you want
- Jealousy in a relationship
- Taking personal responsibility for everything in your relationship
My new book “You Grow Me: The Next Level Human Philosophy of Love, Sex and Romantic Connection” co-written by Dr. Jade Teta (Next Level Human podcast) is available now! It’s a big “f**k you” to unrealistic Hollywood love stories, and instead offers a fresh perspective on how personal growth is intertwined with romance. You can buy your copy of You Grow Me on Amazon here. Please read and let me know your takeaways! Email me or DM me on Instagram (contacts below).
CONNECT WITH EMILY
WOMEN’S GROUP (begins May 1, 2024): “Your Grown A$& Woman Era” apply here
COUPLES COACHING with Emily & Kelly Gardner (apply here)
Book A Private Coaching Call With Emily To Work Together
Get Your FREE Guide “The Four Tools Missing From Your Relationship” here
CONNECT WITH LISA
Website: https://lisacarpenter.ca
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lisacarpenterinc/
Podcast: Full Frontal Living
REFERENCES
Episode 389 | LIFE IS FULL OF UNCERTAINTY, BUT YOU’RE GONNA BE OK WITH LISA CARPENTER
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Speaker A [00:00:02]:
(00:01):
Hey. Hey, listeners. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Full Frontal Living podcast. I'm Lisa Carpenter and I have a very special guest here today, friend and a colleague of mine, relationship expert Emily Goff. And we are going to dive down, I don't know how many rabbit holes here, but a lot about relationships with our partners, with ourselves. And the gist behind this episode is we're just going to let you kind of listen in on a conversation that we're going to have and we'll see where it goes. But before I hit the Go live button, we were talking about safety, creating safety within ourselves, which is a foreign concept to many people, and safety with our partners. So I would like you to start by sharing.
Speaker A [00:00:54]:
How does one go about creating safety within themselves and what does that even mean?
Speaker B [00:01:01]:
Oh, what a question. Lisa. I think the sense of safety that we can create is a sense of being comfortable within our own skin without needing to outsource something to somebody outside of us to validate our existence. Now, that is not to say I don't buy into the instagram memes and everything else that are like we should be able to validate ourselves in every possible way. That is not true. We are literally wired for human connection. We require that in order to not only thrive, but to survive, we need that. But when we can hold up a mirror and relationships are often the way to do so.
Speaker B [00:01:48]:
To look at some of the pieces of ourselves where we are hiding, we are playing small. We are unwilling to have the hard conversations for fear of what might happen as a result of that. The more we can create a sense of safety from within, the more confidence we are going to have to be able to do those things and to be able to show up as the version of ourselves that we know exists. But it can sometimes just feel a little bit out of reach. And there's also a lot of layers with this in terms of like nervous system regulation, learning to self soothe, healing, some attachment stuff. There's so many different layers. But the place to start is really tapping into the body, reconnecting to our bodies. Because I find, especially with women, we can get very outside of ourselves.
Speaker B [00:02:43]:
We can be thinking about the million different things, all the to do lists, the kids, the partner, like all the things, the job, the career, and we lose the connection with ourselves and getting into our bodies. So one of the easiest ways that we can start to do that is simply by our breath and just focusing on the breath. Our breath is the first thing that joins us in this world and it will be the last thing to leave us when we go. It is the one thing that we take with us everywhere. We can access it anywhere and everywhere. We have to be able to so we can use that to actually pay attention, to breathe, to do, like, a mental body scan while we are breathing, to really notice where there's perhaps a sense of tightness, where there is some tension, where there's maybe a part of us that is relaxed. And as we start to get to know that better, then as other situations happen around us, we can get more familiar with which parts of us perhaps feel unsafe as a result of tension, tightness or something like that, like appearing in those moments. But if we don't start to cultivate that self awareness, we can't do anything about it.
Speaker B [00:03:56]:
So I really feel like it starts with reconnecting to our bodies and starting there to then build from that.
Speaker A [00:04:04]:
I agree. And I was so excited to start talking to I'm like, huh? I didn't plug in a microphone. I didn't even say, like, I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker B [00:04:13]:
Thank you for coming.
Speaker A [00:04:14]:
Thank you for coming back on the show. Emily's been a guest before. I don't remember what episode. I have to go back and look, but yeah, so excited about this. I'm like, wow, I see you're totally unprepared. Which is exactly what this podcast is about, right? Is having just these honest conversations, even if the audio is crap. So apologies for that. So, speaking of safety within ourselves, when I look at it, it's very similar to what you say.
Speaker A [00:04:40]:
It's the basics of do I know what it means to care for myself? Do I know what it means? So it doesn't mean that I don't want to be cared for by other people, but am I being responsible for the basics of what it means to connect with myself? Like, do I matter in my own life? Because if I don't matter in my own life, how can I ever feel safe with myself? It's like outsourcing that to other people, and that's not actually their responsibility. So I talk about this place of independence and interdependence, but not codependent. And so many people are in these codependent relationships where they're literally looking for other people to make them feel good and to always give them what they need. So are you able to say that you can take care of yourself? Meaning you're getting enough sleep, you're staying hydrated, you're moving your body? All of these things allow us to feel safe in ourselves. Like knowing that we have our own back. And then a big part for me, because we've been talking about things that have gone on in our relationships, and this has been a period in my life where I've had to learn to be safe with myself is not being critical when life starts lifeing. So being safe with yourself means you don't start beating yourself up when shit is happening in your world or something isn't going the way you want it to, right? How do you show up and support yourself. And one of the things that I found so interesting with my clients, I'll share this with you, and for somebody listening, they might like, go, holy, that's me.
Speaker A [00:06:23]:
I have a very long intake form. When somebody starts coaching with me, it's a job for them to sit down and go through this intake form. And it's very intentional because it's meant to create transformation before they even start working with me. Forces them to sit down and be with themselves. But I ask a question in regards to did you have a safe environment growing up? 99.9% of the time they put yes. And then a few rows down, I ask a question about what their childhood was like and things that went on in their life and was there addiction in their life, and was there this and was there that? And almost all of my clients have some form of something in their life, but they have told themselves in their brain they had a safe space to grow up in, right? They had safety. It was a safe environment. I believe the question is, did you have a safe and stable environment growing up? And then they've listed out that they had addiction in their family.
(00:22):
Speaker A [00:07:24]:
I'm like, do you know that it's actually not possible to have a safe environment if you were growing up where there was addiction in the house? So it makes me realize that so many of us don't actually have a great definition for safety within ourselves or safety with other people. So I thought that this was a really interesting topic of conversation, because we can't create those connected relationships and safe relationships with other people if we don't know how to regulate our own nervous system. And talking about breath, that's one of the foundational ways to regulate your nervous system. But so many of us don't even understand that that is our responsibility, that safety. So when we're talking about feeling safe with someone else, what does that look like, in your opinion? Because I have different views on it now than I did before. So I would love to hear your.
Speaker B [00:08:22]:
Take, and I do too, because I'm now in by far the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. And this relationship with this incredible man is on a different stratosphere than anything I have ever experienced. And I've started recognizing that getting into the healthiest relationship you've ever been in can be as confronting, or perhaps even more so in some cases, than going through really traumatic relationships in some ways because it is such a wildly different viewpoint. And it also can bring a lot to the surface in terms of questioning, is this real? Is this too good to be true? Is this real? Checking in sort of like, do I feel safe? Is this actually as safe as I think it is? Am I making this all up? We can almost just bamboozle ourselves in that way and wonder and if we've never experienced safety with another human, it's almost hard to recognize it when it arrives because we think, oh, is this just boring? Am I bored? What is this? I don't know what to do with this sensation.
Speaker A [00:09:35]:
So many people's nervous systems are wired for chaos that that feels calm for them because that's all they know. So this feeling of boredom in a healthy relationship is a true thing. So keep going with this. This is good.
Speaker B [00:09:49]:
Yeah, it's because to your point and I love that you brought that up because the chaos piece, we can get addicted to the chaos and not even know it. And that also opens up an entire conversation around personal responsibility and stuff too, which I think we're also going to end up getting into. But when we only know chaos, particularly from childhood, even in more subtle ways, that we may not identify it as being in a chaotic environment, we're wired to feel safe in whatever is most familiar. So if chaos is familiar, that will start to feel safe to us when we then experience calm. We think it's boring and we also actually don't associate it with safety because we think safety is over here in the chaos. So it's a complete rewiring of your nervous system. And it took me some time in this relationship to really I had to completely adjust my entire nervous system to whole new settings to this person that I was now in relationship with because he was something I had never experienced before and it was brand new. And I was having a hard time recognizing the safety for what it was.
Speaker B [00:11:01]:
It was something I had wanted. And then there was another part of me, a deeper intuitive sense that was like, oh, this is what you have been waiting for all along. This is what you have been searching for all along. And sometimes we also can question it's very easy to question is this anxiety or is this intuition? And the way I tend to describe it is that anxiety is like the duck on top of the lake that's splashing its legs around frantically and creating this chaos on the top, whereas the intuition is at the very bottom of the lake and it's calm and it just whispers because it doesn't need to yell. If we're listening. We'll hear it, but we don't always listen. So that's how we can sometimes tell if you just again breathe, sit with yourself. When I do that, I look at the top layer and I'm like, okay, I see you anxiety.
Speaker B [00:11:53]:
What's underneath it? And I can even visualize sort of going to the bottom of the lake and talking to myself with what's there. It's usually a very different answer than what the anxiety is because our anxiety can lie to us very easily. Our anxiety can lie to us.
Speaker A [00:12:08]:
Yes, it can, very much. And these parts of us that question, they play a role, right? They're there to protect us often. And it's not that they're trying to make our lives miserable, but they literally want us to pay attention. And when you can acknowledge those parts, not give them a lot of meaning. But like you said, get under the water and hear your intuition. And the way that I look at it is, some people don't like this, but your intuition is never an asshole. Ever.
Speaker B [00:12:40]:
It doesn't talk shit to you.
Speaker A [00:12:41]:
It doesn't talk shit, right? And your intuition often is like that thing that doesn't really make sense, right? Your intuition is almost coming from this spiritual place, which is limitless, and all these things possible. And in my own life right now, a lot of the decisions I've made have been very intuitive. But I have had to battle kind of the human 3D part of myself that's like, I don't know if this makes sense, right? Like, the critic wants to be logical, wants to follow the memes on instagram about the way I should be doing this. But my intuition is like, no, this is where you're supposed to be. This is the path. And it's often hard for me, and I think for many people to listen to their intuition because it requires that we override those parts of ourselves that are trying to be rational and reasonable and often very critical to let that go so that we can give ourselves what we want. Which comes back to what we were talking about around how often we say we want things in our life, right? We want this amazing relationship. We want this deep love.
Speaker A [00:13:52]:
We want the money, we want the things. But then when push comes to shove, we recognize because, like, with you, it showed up in your life. It showed up in my life in a very unexpected way. And I've had to work through the part of me that's like, whoa, I don't know if I like this. I don't know if this feels safe for me, because I had no frame of reality. I had no frame of reference for what that could look like. So I went from a marriage. So I had dysfunctional relationships all growing up.
Speaker A [00:14:26]:
(00:43):
Like, I like to say if there was a broken man out there, I would find him and try and fix him innocently. I just didn't want to look at my own stuff, right? Then I got into a marriage. Amazing, man, very boring. But it wasn't boring. It was neutral. It was safe. It was like, he's a good, solid man. So because chaos was my normal, my familiar, eventually I had to leave that.
Speaker A [00:14:54]:
Had to get back into chaos, right? That's why I ended up with somebody who was an active addict at the time, right? And he's got his own journey. So I don't know where I was going with this, because now, at 50, I lose my train of thought quite often. Emily it's a really good time over here, but creating and taking responsibility for the roles that we are playing in our relationships, how we are withholding those things that we want and what it looks like to let it in. So cultivating that sense of safety within ourself, but also allowing ourselves to have that safety with your partner. So I would love for you to share a little bit about what this journey has been like for you around allowing this love in, because what many of you may not know, and you can go listen to Emily's podcast. It's called room to grow. It's awesome. You speak so eloquently.
Speaker A [00:15:48]:
I listen to you, and I'm like, oh, my God, I need to do better. I'm like, Alisa, just do you. Anyway, Emily had quite a story around engagement, breakup, stuff happening, your own personal growth, growing your business, and now you found this amazing man who landed in your life in perfect timing. As I said, it would show up eventually.
Speaker B [00:16:12]:
Yes, you did.
Speaker A [00:16:14]:
Here it is in the most unexpected way, but that has now come with some challenges and opportunity for you to heal, some stuff that was still some threads still hanging out. So I'd love for you to share whatever you would like to share about that.
Speaker B [00:16:29]:
So this is so funny. Okay, so I'll just give a very brief overview of my background because it will tie in with what I'll share about this new relationship. So I was in a nine year relationship, and this is a few years ago at the end of 2018, on Christmas Eve, his previous girlfriend came to the door to announce that she had been having an affair with him off and on for our entire nine years together. From day one. He had a secret house down the road, like 200 meters, less than 200 meters from our driveway. My entire life went up in smoke in a single moment, essentially. And there was an enormous amount of healing around. You know, I ended the relationship.
Speaker B [00:17:16]:
I sold everything. I moved to Bali for a year until the pandemic, all these different did. I did my work. I did my work. I have continued to do my work. Lisa has been a big part of that work for me. Um, and it's been a lot. And I've always been really proud of how I moved through that.
Speaker B [00:17:36]:
Fast forward to this new relationship and understandably I have held some trauma around exes hanging around. I'm not a big fan of exes hanging around, given my bad situation. And my partner has been married twice. He has two incredible kids with two fantastic women, and he also has co created incredible co parenting relationships with both of his former wives. I have so much respect for the work that he has put in both sides, but he has put in an enormous amount of effort and energy into creating just beautiful co parenting relationships with both of them.
Speaker A [00:18:23]:
He's also a coach who's done his work. He is also a conscious and aware man who has absolutely been committed to doing his own work and girls. So I think it's important that we.
Speaker B [00:18:33]:
Mention that he's not yes, he's also a relationship coach. He is incredibly integrated. He has done his fucking work. He has done his work to the max. So I'm getting in a relationship with this amazing man and feeling senses of safety that are actually making me very uncomfortable because they're that good. Can I trust this? What is this? What is this magical sensation? But he also has exes who are going to remain in his life. Obviously. There was also an ex girlfriend who, when he and I first started dating, was still kind of in his life a little bit and not in a super clean, energetic way.
Speaker B [00:19:12]:
And we had some communication around that. And he had some hard conversations with that particular person. And I was proud of myself. Look at this growth that I'm embodying, like moving past the jealousy around exes and stuff. I'm good. There was also, to a degree, and I'll get more into how this sort of unfolded, into uncovering more of my personal responsibility, but I was also noticing relatively early on the grief of getting what I wanted. I have spent years wanting this kind of relationship, wanting this level of connection, and it's better than I had ever even imagined that it could be and continues to grow into something more beautiful every day, and I'm so grateful for it. And I was also experiencing some grief around the fact that I think I had attached to unconscious stories of how it would look like getting into a relationship with whoever the right person was.
(01:04):
Speaker B [00:20:14]:
And I wasn't expecting necessarily to get into a relationship with someone who had been married twice. There were various aspects of this story that I had painted that I had to let go of in order to appreciate what was right in front of me and also just recognizing the amount of life that he's also ten years older than me. The amount of life that he has lived without me, that I'll never get to live with him and I'll never get to experience certain things with him, at least not for the first time, because he's already gone through some of those things. So there was some grief with that that I had to overcome. And then recently, there was a previous girlfriend of his from many years ago who reached out, and he had shared with me before that at some point, he would love to just he's a beautifully curious being, and he had shared with me ages ago that he would love to just see how life turned out for this person. I think, as a lot of us would. We can be curious about that. And recently he shared that this person had, out of the blue, after many, many years reached out.
Speaker B [00:21:26]:
And my reaction was not a reflection of his excitement, let's put it that way. My reaction was a little bit cold, and I was not super thrilled about this because I didn't even want to actually admit to him that the feeling I was experiencing was jealousy. I didn't even want to actually voice that out loud because I was busy thinking to myself, I've done my work. I'm not a jealous human. I'm above that. That is not me. All these stories, and it turned into a bigger conflict than he and I have had because it really started unearthing some things. And the reason why it turned into a big conflict as well was because the root of it, because he is an incredible coach.
Speaker B [00:22:25]:
We don't generally coach each other, but he knew how to push me to my edge, and he pointed out some areas where I had not yet taken full personal responsibility for my role in my relationship with the man who cheated on me for nine years. And that was not an area I wanted to face. All of my protectors came up. All my defenders came up. I was angry with him for even suggesting such a thing. How dare you? What do you mean? I've done my work. I do this for a living. How could you possibly think this about me? And I ended up having some hard realizations about some things that I had not fully taken personal responsibility for.
Speaker B [00:23:10]:
They weren't necessarily brand new revelations, and I can get into some of them, but it was more that I had not fully integrated them. I was not acting from a place of having embody, having truly started to embody those realizations into who I am and who I am becoming and who I want to be in this relationship with this human. And if I didn't integrate and embody these realizations, they were going to eat away at our relationship. And I had to really sit with that. And a lot of it involves going into things like childhood stuff. So, Lisa, again, to your point. I have a father who left at 15, and my partner, my former partner, the one I was with for nine years. At one point a few years into our relationship, he left me for three weeks and just disappeared.
Speaker B [00:24:09]:
He's kind of disappeared, didn't speak to me for three weeks. I never really forgave him for that. He came back. We worked it out. We went on to have what I thought was a relatively good relationship at the time. I thought it was relatively good relationship for another six years, but I continued to sort of hold that over his head because it put me in a further position of power, like, you left me. You're the bad guy. We never truly recovered from the resentment that I allowed to fester, because in some ways, it satisfied me that he had finally handed me the ammunition I'd been searching for the whole time, which was the proof that I couldn't trust him.
Speaker B [00:24:45]:
And I had been trying to prove that since day one. I had been trying to prove that he was just like my father. It was a self fulfilling prophecy and nothing could make up for his crime of reminding me of my father. And there were some of these layers that I had not wanted to face because especially cheated on for a long period of time like, that it's very easy to be put in the role even of other people looking in putting you in the role of being the so called victim. Even though that's not how I ever identified. And I did take responsibility in other areas, but there was more to this. And I was also causing him pain. I was causing him pain for a long time.
Speaker B [00:25:30]:
That does not excuse his behavior. I can't own his shit for him. That's his to own. His actions are his to own. But that does not excuse me from mine. And these are the layers that we have to look at. And when I started to embody some of these things and I integrated it very quickly because as soon as I had the realizations, it was as though they had been sitting at the surface just waiting for me to just take that last step. And as soon as I integrated them, the things like the jealousy dissolved.
Speaker B [00:26:01]:
I was like, wow, I have no issue with the exes anymore. It's gone.
Speaker A [00:26:07]:
Personal responsibility is a powerful perspective. It's one that it's literally the foundation of my entire business. All the pillars I talk about really stand on this place of personal responsibility. And it's often hard for people to wrap their brains around because they're like, we get attached to the part of us that wants to live in resentment, wants to be in that power position, wants to be the victim. Because in many ways it's easier. It's not in the long run, I can guarantee you, right? But it feels easier because then you don't have to do the work. It's on the other person. And it's so challenging for people to wrap their brains around when shitty things happen that they played a role in it.
Speaker A [00:26:51]:
Especially something like an affair, right? Like, what was my role in it? Right? It just shouldn't have happened. But the truth is we all play a role in all of our relationships and we're constantly calling in things at an unconscious level and they will manifest for us. They will come to fruition, usually not in the way we want them so that we can learn our lessons. So this story for you around this abandonment piece, because this has been something I have been working through and recognizing. Like at the core of all of this was this deep seated fear of abandonment, which of course is what created so much of the chaos that has been going on in my own life and having to come to terms with the parts of me that never felt like I could ever be that loved. So I never allowed myself to be loved. And when you talked about the grief of getting what you want, that part that recognizes you would have never let yourself have it. And in my life, it's looking at all the things that I was willing to settle for as good enough when they really weren't good enough.
Speaker A [00:28:06]:
(01:25):
And this is where our past can keep us so trapped without even recognizing it. Unless you are willing to look at those past stories and having that relationship with your partner where you do feel safe enough, where you can start to call each other out on, wait a minute, this is what I'm seeing happening in you. Do you want to look at this or did you want to just stomp your feet? And I think we're very similar. We both kind of go into this defense of like it's one of those what do we call it? Those fuck you and thank you moments. Oh yeah, I hate what you're saying. And wait a minute, there's something here for me, right? Because jealousy, it doesn't matter what happened with your partner. Being jealous will not prevent something from happening in the future if it's meant to. But having those unresolved issues around abandonment, those will create exactly what you don't want to have happen.
Speaker A [00:29:07]:
So it's really exciting to hear that you're in this type of relationship now and I've got stuff going on in my own relationship that we're working through and trying to get to that new level. And it is so vulnerable to be in a relationship at that level where you're having those bigger conversations and you really are each as individuals being responsible for the role that you're playing in the relationship and what you're co creating together in your life and being very conscious of what you want to create as a couple together. That's work.
Speaker B [00:29:41]:
And that's the thing, is that.
Speaker A [00:29:46]:
We.
Speaker B [00:29:46]:
Can often say that we want the deeply connected relationship, but what does that require of us? It means there's no fucking hiding. There's no hiding. And the vulnerability in allowing ourselves to be truly seen is so confronting. It can be alarming at first because we've never allowed anyone in that deeply to see those parts of ourselves at that level. And we are then handing people the keys like we're handing this person the keys to hurt us. But we have to trust that they won't if we're going to allow the connection to grow and to trust ourselves to be able to handle whatever comes of this the jealousy piece, it doesn't mean I'm never going to experience the emotion of jealousy again at any point. It doesn't mean that. It means that I healed a new layer of an old wound.
Speaker B [00:30:39]:
Are there more layers. There might be. There often are. There can often be like new layers that come up. But I'd rather continue to address them with this person that I feel really safe with and continuing to build a sense of safety within myself as well than to hold someone else hostage for the mistakes of others. Because it was completely unfair for me to be projecting something onto someone who has done nothing wrong, like who has done nothing but honor and respect me in every possible way. And this is where it's tricky because when we're choosing someone, we choose their story too. We choose what has happened to them.
Speaker B [00:31:19]:
We choose what has gone on in their lives. And that's one of the considerations that we have to take when it comes to relationships. What are we choosing? What are the places that we are choosing from? What needs are we looking to have met? Can this other person meet the needs? Are we even having the conversation about needs with ourselves or with the other person? What are the expectations that we are carrying? And sometimes a lot of them are subconscious and we don't even realize it until something comes to light that brings it to the surface, essentially. And at least I was sharing this with you before we jumped on as well, is that one of the biggest things I started to realize was that the reason why I knew this was the right human was there's so many reasons in terms of a beautiful connection and everything else. But it was also because I was like, he and I both have the skills to work through the hardship. It's not a guarantee. Nothing is a guarantee. There are no guarantees.
Speaker B [00:32:13]:
But I would rather be in relationship with someone who has the skills to be able to do that and to be able to navigate the choppy waters that will inevitably come at one point or another, likely many times over in the course of a long relationship than not. And the good news is that these are skills that anyone can build. We don't come out of the womb knowing these skills. No one does. But we can learn them and anyone can learn them. That is a door that is open to anyone and everyone.
Speaker A [00:32:46]:
I agree. They just have to be willing to open the door. And not everybody's ready to do that. We talked about this. It usually takes some life altering event for you to say, okay, this thing happened. Do I want to show up for myself in a different way? Regardless of what they did in my own life, it was choosing to say, okay, this thing happened, but I get to choose to be responsible for my role in it and my healing. It's not up to him to change so that I can feel better. It's up to me to feel better.
Speaker A [00:33:18]:
And when you said when we choose people, we choose their stories as well, I believe that the partners we bring into our lives, they're perfect matches for our bullshit. Our bullshit matches their bullshit. And it's only a matter of time, right? So if you have a fear of abandonment issue, chances are you're going to attract somebody who has a fear of commitment, right. Or something along those lines. Right. We always see this. And within those relationships, if you can have these conversations, they can be incredibly healing. But again, it comes back to, have you done the work first around creating that safety in yourself so that you can create that sense of safety with your partner? And have they done that work on feeling safe within themselves? Because you need two safe people to show up together in order to grow forward.
Speaker A [00:34:07]:
Right. Otherwise, you've got one person with a Dysregulated nervous system and one person and I'm sure you hear this with your clients all the time. I know I do with mine is there's this tremendous fear that a lot of women have that if they start to do this work, they have an inner knowing that their relationship may not survive. And I believe that that's what prevents a lot of women from growing. That came up for me in my relationship many years ago, and I remember having the conversation with Macy at the time and saying, I'm going to grow anyways, and whatever happens in this relationship is going to happen. And that commitment to my growth, personally, professionally, financially, was literally the foundation that I stood on when shit did hit the fan. Right? Like, I was okay. I wasn't okay, but I was okay because of that.
(01:46):
Speaker A [00:35:04]:
And I just see so many women and men as well. I don't want to throw men under the bus here, right? But you and I were talking that comparative to women. The resources for men are quite small. Do you agree? Right.
Speaker B [00:35:24]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:35:24]:
Women I mean, I can go online that can 500 coaches. Like, some days I'm like, oh my God, a million of us out here. Right? And with men, there seems to be a smaller percentage of resources for them, yet they need to do this work as much as women need to do this work. And women continue to keep themselves small because they don't want to outgrow their men. Because I think in part, a lot of women know that there's not a lot of as many evolved men or men that are doing their work as there are women. So now we've got all these women that are doing this work to grow into the best version of themselves. But our partners, our counterparts, aren't getting into this work as much. I don't know how I ended up down this rabbit hole, but I hope you understand what I'm saying, right? Which I love hearing that Kelly.
Speaker A [00:36:15]:
It's Kelly, right?
Speaker B [00:36:16]:
Kelly, yeah.
Speaker A [00:36:18]:
I love hearing that he's doing this work for men and that he's surrounded by a circle of men that are also doing this work and moving this work onto the world, because it is a real fear that a lot of women have that not enough men are going to get on this train of being able to have these conversations.
Speaker B [00:36:35]:
Yeah. And it is a very legitimate fear. I had had that same thought in past relationships as well. I think that what it really comes down to is the fact that sometimes it only takes one person to change a relationship for the better too. That doesn't necessarily mean a negative if we shrink ourselves down and we make the active decision to not grow or sometimes even the subconscious decision to not grow as much because we are worried that it will expand us beyond the container that we are currently in. First of all, that's human. I just want everyone to give themselves some compassion there because that is incredibly human. Again, it's like choosing the familiar.
Speaker B [00:37:23]:
And there can be fear of success. There can be fear of what the growth will bring. There can be fear of the new layers of responsibility and new issues and everything else, including relational, that can come with growing beyond what we have been used to, what our set capacity has been up until this point. That we may have spent a lifetime being super comfy in and then growing beyond that is genuinely terrifying because no one ever said healing was fun. Healing is not fun. Growth is not necessarily fun. There are all kinds of issues that can come with all of these. So I want everyone to just like take a breath, give yourself some compassion for that.
Speaker B [00:38:07]:
Additionally, are we not only depriving ourselves of an opportunity to grow, but is it possible that we are also depriving the other person and the relational entity itself? Are we denying all three entities the opportunity to grow? And let's paint the so called worst case scenario. If we grow ourselves and our partner doesn't and the relational container falls apart, is it possible that it's because there's more out there for both parties than the one that you co created from the place that you co created it in? Is it possible? Is every scenario going to play out in a fairy tale fantasy? No. And that's also because fairy tales aren't real. That's not really how it works in real life and that's what my upcoming book is based around in a lot of ways too. But when we deny ourselves the opportunity for growth, we are also denying that opportunity for growth to everyone that we impact. And who do we often impact the most to the person closest to us that we are in relationship with. It doesn't mean that that growth, we can't control what the outcome is. But again, my partner has phrased this in a way that really speaks beautifully to this, is that you can be attached to the work but not attached to the outcome, like detached from the outcome, but be super attached to the work.
Speaker B [00:39:47]:
Like you put in the work, you do the growth, you do the hard things, you take the personal ownership, and then you have to allow the chips to fall at some point. And that could end up meaning the best possible case scenarios for both involved parties. If I had not ended my nine year relationship, and let's say even if there hadn't been infidelity or anything like that, if he and I had both chosen to stay in that relationship and I had denied myself the growth and everything else for that relationship, do you think either one of us would have been happy? Even if there was no infidelity, he and I would not have been happy. Neither one of us would have been happy. So I'm hopeful that he has gone on to better things that are much better suited to him and that he is thriving wherever he is. And I certainly am. But if I had contained myself, that would not have been the case. But also just acknowledging that this also doesn't happen all at once again, the rewiring of the nervous system takes time.
Speaker B [00:40:58]:
(02:07):
We don't generally just wake up one day and decide, okay, I'm going to grow into the best possible version of myself today, and whatever happens, happens. That's not how it works. It happens over time. And it also happens in a way, I believe that the universe gifts us with opportunities that allow us to grow and expand at the rate that we can figure it out. We get to decide what we do with those opportunities does not make them easy. It does also not take away anyone's pain. That is incredibly valid. But I just really see all of these things as opportunities and then we get to decide what to do with them.
Speaker A [00:41:37]:
I agree. You often don't see the true depth of the lessons till you're on the other side of it, but we can allow fear of what might come to stop us from actually moving forward. So I love that perspective and I've always taken that too. When I make decisions that are best for me, it's going to be best for everyone, even if they don't necessarily see it that way. I think that where women need to be cautious, though sometimes, is they will try. I've seen this as well. I'm sure you have as well. Is the trying super hard to change themselves and getting their partner on board with it.
Speaker A [00:42:21]:
Right? Because if I could just get him to change, then I would feel better. And this is the whole be detached from the outcome. You have to be committed and responsible for your own transformation and not be attached to whether or not your partner learns by osmosis or makes his own transformation. You just have to trust that things are going to play out exactly as they need to play out and you'll end up exactly where you're meant to. Because how could it be any other way, right? Even the fact that we tell ourselves a story that it could be different than it is, is like a fairy tale.
Speaker B [00:42:56]:
Yeah. And we try to drag the person along behind us. That's not going to serve the relationship. You are going to be resentful. The other person is going to be resentful. Even if your partner does grow in certain ways, it's not going to be genuine and authentic to them. It's going to be them perhaps trying to grow in a way that might work for you, but that's not necessarily what works for them. And that's a recipe for disaster as well.
Speaker B [00:43:22]:
The answer how do you get someone to change? You don't. You don't.
Speaker A [00:43:27]:
I'd share with you before we started recording that my relationship has been going through a lot of change, a lot of transition. And I was at a place in my relationship where my partner was really unhappy and very unhealthy, and I just had to let him be where he was at. Now, I could have made different decisions around that I didn't, but I was very detached from whatever was going to happen to him was going to happen. But in order for him to step into the changes he's now making, a lot of things had to happen for him. Period. I am a great coach. It is not my job to coach him. It is not my job to get his ass off the couch and get him to change.
Speaker A [00:44:09]:
I can only be responsible for the choices that I made. And a lot of people really struggle to understand that when they would ask me questions. So it was my choice to stay in the relationship. And like I said, everything happened the way it needed to happen in order for him to create the lasting change and the true change that he really needed so he could find his joy and happiness. So relationships are complicated. They are messy, they are beautiful, they are horrible, they are all things. So many people go into relationships wanting it to be a team sport. And I've often said that's like playing tennis with both of you on one side of the court and nobody on the other side.
Speaker A [00:44:54]:
Right. It doesn't make sense. You have to each be playing your own game so that you can play together. And that takes work. I am learning that a very healthy, powerful, grounded, loving, safe relationship is very much like running a business. It needs that much care and attention. And I think so many of us get into relationships and like you said, we have these expectations. It's just supposed to be this way.
Speaker A [00:45:20]:
And you get married to this person and you just go about your lives. And most of us are sleeping through our relationships with our partner and sleeping in our relationships with ourselves, which brings me back to your book. We're looking for that other person to give us all the things that we're unwilling to give ourselves. So I would love for you to talk about your book. I know it's not coming out until early 2024, and we'll have you back on the show before then because we always have so much to talk about. But your book, You Grow Me, which I said, oh, I remember seeing the COVID because it had the word complete above it with a big red line, but You Grow Me really what this conversation is about. So tell everybody about your book, where they can sign up to get a copy when it's available, where they can follow you, where they can learn more about you. If you want to give a shout out to your partner, which hopefully I'll get to meet him one day, that would be awesome, too.
Speaker A [00:46:17]:
Let's give everybody all the resources.
Speaker B [00:46:19]:
I love it. I love it. Okay, so, yeah, the book You Grow Me, it's coming out January or February 2024, and I wrote it with my co author, really dear friend of mine, Dr. Jade Tita. And there's a funny story as to how Jade and I have come together almost was it eleven years ago, I started teaching boot camp classes on the side while I was working my corporate job. And the company I started teaching boot camp classes for handed me a book on nutrition and fitness, and they said it was mandatory reading, and it was by Jade. I'd never heard of this guy who's this random guy, and I read the book, and it turned everything I thought I knew, and I thought I knew some things about fitness and nutrition, turned everything I thought I knew upside down. That was why I went back to school to become a holistic nutritionist.
(02:28):
Speaker B [00:47:09]:
That was why I started an online business, because I started following Jade, and I was like, oh, my God, you can have an online business. What is that? That then led to the transformation into I started doing relationship coaching. Jade and I connected initially via the podcast, and then over time, we became such close friends that we consider each other siblings at this point. And now, eleven years later, he and I are co authoring a book together. It's just the most random story, and he introduced me to my partner, Kelly Gardner. So, yes, Jade has been at the center of a lot of manifestations in my life in a lot of ways, but he and I have written this beautiful and hilarious book, I might add. We both punch people in the face and make at least we make each other crack up as we're reading what we've written. So hopefully it makes everyone else laugh as well.
Speaker B [00:48:00]:
But essentially, it's based on the idea that we cannot expect another human to fulfill all of our needs. We cannot expect someone else to be the thing that completes us, that missing puzzle piece in our life that will the magical unicorn who will come in love us like we've never been loved, and everything will be wonderful and we'll just ride off into the sunset together. So we are really breaking that apart and also teaching you how to show up in a more confidently, detached way, giving you some of the skills that you need to create really beautiful, healthy relationships that actually have the opportunity to thrive as opposed to and getting to the root of our own stories as well that can create these opportunities for it to thrive. Yeah. There's so many layers to it. And we unpack all of that in the book as well.
Speaker A [00:48:54]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:48:54]:
And then my partner, Kelly, he's an incredible coach. He also runs men's groups as well, but he works with men and women, but has incredible men's groups. So if anyone has people that they want in their life to go to start doing men's work, you can drop the breadcrumb. You cannot force anyone. I'm just going to say that. What's his website?
Speaker A [00:49:18]:
Where can we find him? Because I really love I do have men that listen to this podcast. Of course, my clients have husbands and partners, and I love that I have a resource now to send them to because I know that he's got to be a quality person if he's with you, like, Hands, I've known you for a long time now. No problem giving Kelly a shout out if he's with you.
Speaker B [00:49:40]:
Absolutely. Yeah. So his instagram is I am Kelly Gardner. Yeah. So I'll send you the information if you want to link it in the show notes. So, yes, you can connect with Kelly. He's got lots of great stuff going. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:49:53]:
So really beautiful things. He and I are starting to work with couples as well. Yeah. So really exciting things. Unfolding. And I'm honored to get to be publishing this book. I'm honored to get to be in relationship with this amazing human through the ups and through the downs. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:50:13]:
Just really incredible. And, Lisa, I have to give you credit because I reminded you of this when we jumped on that two and a half years ago, almost three years ago, I was bawling to you. I was in the darkest depression of my life. You literally intuitively sensed it, like some sort of bat signal, like you often do. You reached out to me on Instagram. You're like, how are you? I'm fine, Lisa. No, you're not. I'm booking you.
Speaker B [00:50:39]:
And I was bawling to you about so many different things that were not going well in my life, and a relationship was one of them. And you said to me, I am holding on to the vision for you of the relationship that I can see in your future, and I can hold onto it while you can't see it. And you have remained that little voice in my life. And I also want to be know getting into this relationship, this beautiful relationship that I'm in. Kelly and I are choosing each other and we are choosing to co create this. It does not mean that it is perfect, both of us. We would be okay if it didn't work out, which I am certainly not manifesting at all. But I want to be clear that it's not coming from a place of need.
Speaker B [00:51:33]:
It's coming from a place of genuine want. Because we don't have to have this perfect story unfold. We recognize the imperfections in the relationship and in each other and we're choosing to co create it because it adds to both of our lives rather than detracting. And that, I think, is the healthiest place to be in to choose a relationship. I don't want to hold up any relationship as like some perfect thing up on a pedestal. That's not what it is. Every single relationship has its shit. Every single relationship has its shit.
Speaker B [00:52:08]:
(02:49):
It's simply a matter of what you want to choose, what you want to co create. And again, having the skills to do it. Having the skills to do it. Some of the most powerful gifts that you can give to yourself is choosing to do your own work. Choosing to learn these skills like communication and compassion and having the courage to do all of it. To create beautiful, deeply connected relationships, particularly with yourself. That is everything else we've talked about on this episode. It boils down to this.
Speaker B [00:52:44]:
For me, that is by far the biggest point I want to make.
Speaker A [00:52:47]:
So powerful. I'm not going to take credit for you manifesting your relationship. And when I'm ready to share my story, maybe what I'll do is I'll have you on the podcast and you can walk me through that because I can't think of anybody better who could hold space for that conversation than you. So I'm grateful you came into my life. Right. It's been a lot of years now. I mean, you were a lot of years, five years coaching fitness back then, like baby business.
Speaker B [00:53:21]:
Baby business.
Speaker A [00:53:23]:
I really pride myself on coaching leaders. That's really what I do and I've had to take ownership of that. And that's how I've always seen you as a leader. I saw that in you before. You were willing to see that in yourself. So I'm like a proud mama bear when you step into how you are going to lead in the world and how powerful it's going to be and how impactful this book is going to be for people. And you are just such a master at creating connection. You always have been.
Speaker A [00:53:55]:
And it is something I admire and appreciate in you. As somebody who feels like the awkward kid in the room, often crying on me because you'll make me cry. I just reached somebody today. I'm like, hey, I'm that girl that introduced herself to you. I was like the awkward, weird one. That's how I feel. I see you and you're just such a master at creating beautiful connections and community and you know, I wish nothing but the absolute best for you. The best health, the best relationship, the best business, whatever success means to you.
Speaker A [00:54:29]:
But this is the power of doing this work. It takes time, but you can create your own extraordinary life and your own extraordinary life circumstances when you stay committed to that work on yourself and everything will fall into place. You don't know when, you don't know how. It's going to come with unexpected detours, roadblocks, pit stops, full stops. But you'll get there and now you're supporting other people and getting there as well and building connections. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening because we had a long conversation before this podcast even started. Some of the stuff going on for me.
Speaker A [00:55:12]:
Thank you for being that person in my life that I know that I can trust and talk to about things as well that matters, that we've built this relationship. And thank you for everybody for tuning in and just listening in on this conversation. There's so many amazing nuggets in here. I hope it becomes one of our top listen to episodes. Should be really cool. I got a lot of I don't know how many episodes I'm up to now. 250 some OD episodes. So I still haven't run out of things to talk about.
Speaker B [00:55:42]:
No.
Speaker A [00:55:42]:
Thank you for coming. Tell everybody what is your Instagram handle so that they can find you on Instagram too.
Speaker B [00:55:47]:
Yeah, I'm over at Emily. Goff Coach. So emily G-O-U-G-H coach yeah. And Emilygoffcoaching.com, all the information to work with me over there. Yeah, work with me one on one. I also am restarting a women's group as well. So super excited about that. Couples work is going to start to become more prevalent I think, as well.
(03:10):
Speaker B [00:56:09]:
Yeah, there's a lot going on. And then the Room to Grow podcast too. And you will be coming on the podcast again very soon because it has been way too long.
Speaker A [00:56:15]:
Yes, I will put everything in the show notes. We will end this episode so that people don't have to continue to sit through our love fest for each. But thank you so much for being here. Such a great conversation.
Speaker B [00:56:27]:
You would an awesome everybody listening.
Speaker A [00:56:29]:
I'll catch you on the next episode. Bye.
Speaker A [00:00:02]:
(00:01):
Hey. Hey, listeners. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Full Frontal Living podcast. I'm Lisa Carpenter and I have a very special guest here today, friend and a colleague of mine, relationship expert Emily Goff. And we are going to dive down, I don't know how many rabbit holes here, but a lot about relationships with our partners, with ourselves. And the gist behind this episode is we're just going to let you kind of listen in on a conversation that we're going to have and we'll see where it goes. But before I hit the Go live button, we were talking about safety, creating safety within ourselves, which is a foreign concept to many people, and safety with our partners. So I would like you to start by sharing.
Speaker A [00:00:54]:
How does one go about creating safety within themselves and what does that even mean?
Speaker B [00:01:01]:
Oh, what a question. Lisa. I think the sense of safety that we can create is a sense of being comfortable within our own skin without needing to outsource something to somebody outside of us to validate our existence. Now, that is not to say I don't buy into the instagram memes and everything else that are like we should be able to validate ourselves in every possible way. That is not true. We are literally wired for human connection. We require that in order to not only thrive, but to survive, we need that. But when we can hold up a mirror and relationships are often the way to do so.
Speaker B [00:01:48]:
To look at some of the pieces of ourselves where we are hiding, we are playing small. We are unwilling to have the hard conversations for fear of what might happen as a result of that. The more we can create a sense of safety from within, the more confidence we are going to have to be able to do those things and to be able to show up as the version of ourselves that we know exists. But it can sometimes just feel a little bit out of reach. And there's also a lot of layers with this in terms of like nervous system regulation, learning to self soothe, healing, some attachment stuff. There's so many different layers. But the place to start is really tapping into the body, reconnecting to our bodies. Because I find, especially with women, we can get very outside of ourselves.
Speaker B [00:02:43]:
We can be thinking about the million different things, all the to do lists, the kids, the partner, like all the things, the job, the career, and we lose the connection with ourselves and getting into our bodies. So one of the easiest ways that we can start to do that is simply by our breath and just focusing on the breath. Our breath is the first thing that joins us in this world and it will be the last thing to leave us when we go. It is the one thing that we take with us everywhere. We can access it anywhere and everywhere. We have to be able to so we can use that to actually pay attention, to breathe, to do, like, a mental body scan while we are breathing, to really notice where there's perhaps a sense of tightness, where there is some tension, where there's maybe a part of us that is relaxed. And as we start to get to know that better, then as other situations happen around us, we can get more familiar with which parts of us perhaps feel unsafe as a result of tension, tightness or something like that, like appearing in those moments. But if we don't start to cultivate that self awareness, we can't do anything about it.
Speaker B [00:03:56]:
So I really feel like it starts with reconnecting to our bodies and starting there to then build from that.
Speaker A [00:04:04]:
I agree. And I was so excited to start talking to I'm like, huh? I didn't plug in a microphone. I didn't even say, like, I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker B [00:04:13]:
Thank you for coming.
Speaker A [00:04:14]:
Thank you for coming back on the show. Emily's been a guest before. I don't remember what episode. I have to go back and look, but yeah, so excited about this. I'm like, wow, I see you're totally unprepared. Which is exactly what this podcast is about, right? Is having just these honest conversations, even if the audio is crap. So apologies for that. So, speaking of safety within ourselves, when I look at it, it's very similar to what you say.
Speaker A [00:04:40]:
It's the basics of do I know what it means to care for myself? Do I know what it means? So it doesn't mean that I don't want to be cared for by other people, but am I being responsible for the basics of what it means to connect with myself? Like, do I matter in my own life? Because if I don't matter in my own life, how can I ever feel safe with myself? It's like outsourcing that to other people, and that's not actually their responsibility. So I talk about this place of independence and interdependence, but not codependent. And so many people are in these codependent relationships where they're literally looking for other people to make them feel good and to always give them what they need. So are you able to say that you can take care of yourself? Meaning you're getting enough sleep, you're staying hydrated, you're moving your body? All of these things allow us to feel safe in ourselves. Like knowing that we have our own back. And then a big part for me, because we've been talking about things that have gone on in our relationships, and this has been a period in my life where I've had to learn to be safe with myself is not being critical when life starts lifeing. So being safe with yourself means you don't start beating yourself up when shit is happening in your world or something isn't going the way you want it to, right? How do you show up and support yourself. And one of the things that I found so interesting with my clients, I'll share this with you, and for somebody listening, they might like, go, holy, that's me.
Speaker A [00:06:23]:
I have a very long intake form. When somebody starts coaching with me, it's a job for them to sit down and go through this intake form. And it's very intentional because it's meant to create transformation before they even start working with me. Forces them to sit down and be with themselves. But I ask a question in regards to did you have a safe environment growing up? 99.9% of the time they put yes. And then a few rows down, I ask a question about what their childhood was like and things that went on in their life and was there addiction in their life, and was there this and was there that? And almost all of my clients have some form of something in their life, but they have told themselves in their brain they had a safe space to grow up in, right? They had safety. It was a safe environment. I believe the question is, did you have a safe and stable environment growing up? And then they've listed out that they had addiction in their family.
(00:22):
Speaker A [00:07:24]:
I'm like, do you know that it's actually not possible to have a safe environment if you were growing up where there was addiction in the house? So it makes me realize that so many of us don't actually have a great definition for safety within ourselves or safety with other people. So I thought that this was a really interesting topic of conversation, because we can't create those connected relationships and safe relationships with other people if we don't know how to regulate our own nervous system. And talking about breath, that's one of the foundational ways to regulate your nervous system. But so many of us don't even understand that that is our responsibility, that safety. So when we're talking about feeling safe with someone else, what does that look like, in your opinion? Because I have different views on it now than I did before. So I would love to hear your.
Speaker B [00:08:22]:
Take, and I do too, because I'm now in by far the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. And this relationship with this incredible man is on a different stratosphere than anything I have ever experienced. And I've started recognizing that getting into the healthiest relationship you've ever been in can be as confronting, or perhaps even more so in some cases, than going through really traumatic relationships in some ways because it is such a wildly different viewpoint. And it also can bring a lot to the surface in terms of questioning, is this real? Is this too good to be true? Is this real? Checking in sort of like, do I feel safe? Is this actually as safe as I think it is? Am I making this all up? We can almost just bamboozle ourselves in that way and wonder and if we've never experienced safety with another human, it's almost hard to recognize it when it arrives because we think, oh, is this just boring? Am I bored? What is this? I don't know what to do with this sensation.
Speaker A [00:09:35]:
So many people's nervous systems are wired for chaos that that feels calm for them because that's all they know. So this feeling of boredom in a healthy relationship is a true thing. So keep going with this. This is good.
Speaker B [00:09:49]:
Yeah, it's because to your point and I love that you brought that up because the chaos piece, we can get addicted to the chaos and not even know it. And that also opens up an entire conversation around personal responsibility and stuff too, which I think we're also going to end up getting into. But when we only know chaos, particularly from childhood, even in more subtle ways, that we may not identify it as being in a chaotic environment, we're wired to feel safe in whatever is most familiar. So if chaos is familiar, that will start to feel safe to us when we then experience calm. We think it's boring and we also actually don't associate it with safety because we think safety is over here in the chaos. So it's a complete rewiring of your nervous system. And it took me some time in this relationship to really I had to completely adjust my entire nervous system to whole new settings to this person that I was now in relationship with because he was something I had never experienced before and it was brand new. And I was having a hard time recognizing the safety for what it was.
Speaker B [00:11:01]:
It was something I had wanted. And then there was another part of me, a deeper intuitive sense that was like, oh, this is what you have been waiting for all along. This is what you have been searching for all along. And sometimes we also can question it's very easy to question is this anxiety or is this intuition? And the way I tend to describe it is that anxiety is like the duck on top of the lake that's splashing its legs around frantically and creating this chaos on the top, whereas the intuition is at the very bottom of the lake and it's calm and it just whispers because it doesn't need to yell. If we're listening. We'll hear it, but we don't always listen. So that's how we can sometimes tell if you just again breathe, sit with yourself. When I do that, I look at the top layer and I'm like, okay, I see you anxiety.
Speaker B [00:11:53]:
What's underneath it? And I can even visualize sort of going to the bottom of the lake and talking to myself with what's there. It's usually a very different answer than what the anxiety is because our anxiety can lie to us very easily. Our anxiety can lie to us.
Speaker A [00:12:08]:
Yes, it can, very much. And these parts of us that question, they play a role, right? They're there to protect us often. And it's not that they're trying to make our lives miserable, but they literally want us to pay attention. And when you can acknowledge those parts, not give them a lot of meaning. But like you said, get under the water and hear your intuition. And the way that I look at it is, some people don't like this, but your intuition is never an asshole. Ever.
Speaker B [00:12:40]:
It doesn't talk shit to you.
Speaker A [00:12:41]:
It doesn't talk shit, right? And your intuition often is like that thing that doesn't really make sense, right? Your intuition is almost coming from this spiritual place, which is limitless, and all these things possible. And in my own life right now, a lot of the decisions I've made have been very intuitive. But I have had to battle kind of the human 3D part of myself that's like, I don't know if this makes sense, right? Like, the critic wants to be logical, wants to follow the memes on instagram about the way I should be doing this. But my intuition is like, no, this is where you're supposed to be. This is the path. And it's often hard for me, and I think for many people to listen to their intuition because it requires that we override those parts of ourselves that are trying to be rational and reasonable and often very critical to let that go so that we can give ourselves what we want. Which comes back to what we were talking about around how often we say we want things in our life, right? We want this amazing relationship. We want this deep love.
Speaker A [00:13:52]:
We want the money, we want the things. But then when push comes to shove, we recognize because, like, with you, it showed up in your life. It showed up in my life in a very unexpected way. And I've had to work through the part of me that's like, whoa, I don't know if I like this. I don't know if this feels safe for me, because I had no frame of reality. I had no frame of reference for what that could look like. So I went from a marriage. So I had dysfunctional relationships all growing up.
Speaker A [00:14:26]:
(00:43):
Like, I like to say if there was a broken man out there, I would find him and try and fix him innocently. I just didn't want to look at my own stuff, right? Then I got into a marriage. Amazing, man, very boring. But it wasn't boring. It was neutral. It was safe. It was like, he's a good, solid man. So because chaos was my normal, my familiar, eventually I had to leave that.
Speaker A [00:14:54]:
Had to get back into chaos, right? That's why I ended up with somebody who was an active addict at the time, right? And he's got his own journey. So I don't know where I was going with this, because now, at 50, I lose my train of thought quite often. Emily it's a really good time over here, but creating and taking responsibility for the roles that we are playing in our relationships, how we are withholding those things that we want and what it looks like to let it in. So cultivating that sense of safety within ourself, but also allowing ourselves to have that safety with your partner. So I would love for you to share a little bit about what this journey has been like for you around allowing this love in, because what many of you may not know, and you can go listen to Emily's podcast. It's called room to grow. It's awesome. You speak so eloquently.
Speaker A [00:15:48]:
I listen to you, and I'm like, oh, my God, I need to do better. I'm like, Alisa, just do you. Anyway, Emily had quite a story around engagement, breakup, stuff happening, your own personal growth, growing your business, and now you found this amazing man who landed in your life in perfect timing. As I said, it would show up eventually.
Speaker B [00:16:12]:
Yes, you did.
Speaker A [00:16:14]:
Here it is in the most unexpected way, but that has now come with some challenges and opportunity for you to heal, some stuff that was still some threads still hanging out. So I'd love for you to share whatever you would like to share about that.
Speaker B [00:16:29]:
So this is so funny. Okay, so I'll just give a very brief overview of my background because it will tie in with what I'll share about this new relationship. So I was in a nine year relationship, and this is a few years ago at the end of 2018, on Christmas Eve, his previous girlfriend came to the door to announce that she had been having an affair with him off and on for our entire nine years together. From day one. He had a secret house down the road, like 200 meters, less than 200 meters from our driveway. My entire life went up in smoke in a single moment, essentially. And there was an enormous amount of healing around. You know, I ended the relationship.
Speaker B [00:17:16]:
I sold everything. I moved to Bali for a year until the pandemic, all these different did. I did my work. I did my work. I have continued to do my work. Lisa has been a big part of that work for me. Um, and it's been a lot. And I've always been really proud of how I moved through that.
Speaker B [00:17:36]:
Fast forward to this new relationship and understandably I have held some trauma around exes hanging around. I'm not a big fan of exes hanging around, given my bad situation. And my partner has been married twice. He has two incredible kids with two fantastic women, and he also has co created incredible co parenting relationships with both of his former wives. I have so much respect for the work that he has put in both sides, but he has put in an enormous amount of effort and energy into creating just beautiful co parenting relationships with both of them.
Speaker A [00:18:23]:
He's also a coach who's done his work. He is also a conscious and aware man who has absolutely been committed to doing his own work and girls. So I think it's important that we.
Speaker B [00:18:33]:
Mention that he's not yes, he's also a relationship coach. He is incredibly integrated. He has done his fucking work. He has done his work to the max. So I'm getting in a relationship with this amazing man and feeling senses of safety that are actually making me very uncomfortable because they're that good. Can I trust this? What is this? What is this magical sensation? But he also has exes who are going to remain in his life. Obviously. There was also an ex girlfriend who, when he and I first started dating, was still kind of in his life a little bit and not in a super clean, energetic way.
Speaker B [00:19:12]:
And we had some communication around that. And he had some hard conversations with that particular person. And I was proud of myself. Look at this growth that I'm embodying, like moving past the jealousy around exes and stuff. I'm good. There was also, to a degree, and I'll get more into how this sort of unfolded, into uncovering more of my personal responsibility, but I was also noticing relatively early on the grief of getting what I wanted. I have spent years wanting this kind of relationship, wanting this level of connection, and it's better than I had ever even imagined that it could be and continues to grow into something more beautiful every day, and I'm so grateful for it. And I was also experiencing some grief around the fact that I think I had attached to unconscious stories of how it would look like getting into a relationship with whoever the right person was.
(01:04):
Speaker B [00:20:14]:
And I wasn't expecting necessarily to get into a relationship with someone who had been married twice. There were various aspects of this story that I had painted that I had to let go of in order to appreciate what was right in front of me and also just recognizing the amount of life that he's also ten years older than me. The amount of life that he has lived without me, that I'll never get to live with him and I'll never get to experience certain things with him, at least not for the first time, because he's already gone through some of those things. So there was some grief with that that I had to overcome. And then recently, there was a previous girlfriend of his from many years ago who reached out, and he had shared with me before that at some point, he would love to just he's a beautifully curious being, and he had shared with me ages ago that he would love to just see how life turned out for this person. I think, as a lot of us would. We can be curious about that. And recently he shared that this person had, out of the blue, after many, many years reached out.
Speaker B [00:21:26]:
And my reaction was not a reflection of his excitement, let's put it that way. My reaction was a little bit cold, and I was not super thrilled about this because I didn't even want to actually admit to him that the feeling I was experiencing was jealousy. I didn't even want to actually voice that out loud because I was busy thinking to myself, I've done my work. I'm not a jealous human. I'm above that. That is not me. All these stories, and it turned into a bigger conflict than he and I have had because it really started unearthing some things. And the reason why it turned into a big conflict as well was because the root of it, because he is an incredible coach.
Speaker B [00:22:25]:
We don't generally coach each other, but he knew how to push me to my edge, and he pointed out some areas where I had not yet taken full personal responsibility for my role in my relationship with the man who cheated on me for nine years. And that was not an area I wanted to face. All of my protectors came up. All my defenders came up. I was angry with him for even suggesting such a thing. How dare you? What do you mean? I've done my work. I do this for a living. How could you possibly think this about me? And I ended up having some hard realizations about some things that I had not fully taken personal responsibility for.
Speaker B [00:23:10]:
They weren't necessarily brand new revelations, and I can get into some of them, but it was more that I had not fully integrated them. I was not acting from a place of having embody, having truly started to embody those realizations into who I am and who I am becoming and who I want to be in this relationship with this human. And if I didn't integrate and embody these realizations, they were going to eat away at our relationship. And I had to really sit with that. And a lot of it involves going into things like childhood stuff. So, Lisa, again, to your point. I have a father who left at 15, and my partner, my former partner, the one I was with for nine years. At one point a few years into our relationship, he left me for three weeks and just disappeared.
Speaker B [00:24:09]:
He's kind of disappeared, didn't speak to me for three weeks. I never really forgave him for that. He came back. We worked it out. We went on to have what I thought was a relatively good relationship at the time. I thought it was relatively good relationship for another six years, but I continued to sort of hold that over his head because it put me in a further position of power, like, you left me. You're the bad guy. We never truly recovered from the resentment that I allowed to fester, because in some ways, it satisfied me that he had finally handed me the ammunition I'd been searching for the whole time, which was the proof that I couldn't trust him.
Speaker B [00:24:45]:
And I had been trying to prove that since day one. I had been trying to prove that he was just like my father. It was a self fulfilling prophecy and nothing could make up for his crime of reminding me of my father. And there were some of these layers that I had not wanted to face because especially cheated on for a long period of time like, that it's very easy to be put in the role even of other people looking in putting you in the role of being the so called victim. Even though that's not how I ever identified. And I did take responsibility in other areas, but there was more to this. And I was also causing him pain. I was causing him pain for a long time.
Speaker B [00:25:30]:
That does not excuse his behavior. I can't own his shit for him. That's his to own. His actions are his to own. But that does not excuse me from mine. And these are the layers that we have to look at. And when I started to embody some of these things and I integrated it very quickly because as soon as I had the realizations, it was as though they had been sitting at the surface just waiting for me to just take that last step. And as soon as I integrated them, the things like the jealousy dissolved.
Speaker B [00:26:01]:
I was like, wow, I have no issue with the exes anymore. It's gone.
Speaker A [00:26:07]:
Personal responsibility is a powerful perspective. It's one that it's literally the foundation of my entire business. All the pillars I talk about really stand on this place of personal responsibility. And it's often hard for people to wrap their brains around because they're like, we get attached to the part of us that wants to live in resentment, wants to be in that power position, wants to be the victim. Because in many ways it's easier. It's not in the long run, I can guarantee you, right? But it feels easier because then you don't have to do the work. It's on the other person. And it's so challenging for people to wrap their brains around when shitty things happen that they played a role in it.
Speaker A [00:26:51]:
Especially something like an affair, right? Like, what was my role in it? Right? It just shouldn't have happened. But the truth is we all play a role in all of our relationships and we're constantly calling in things at an unconscious level and they will manifest for us. They will come to fruition, usually not in the way we want them so that we can learn our lessons. So this story for you around this abandonment piece, because this has been something I have been working through and recognizing. Like at the core of all of this was this deep seated fear of abandonment, which of course is what created so much of the chaos that has been going on in my own life and having to come to terms with the parts of me that never felt like I could ever be that loved. So I never allowed myself to be loved. And when you talked about the grief of getting what you want, that part that recognizes you would have never let yourself have it. And in my life, it's looking at all the things that I was willing to settle for as good enough when they really weren't good enough.
Speaker A [00:28:06]:
(01:25):
And this is where our past can keep us so trapped without even recognizing it. Unless you are willing to look at those past stories and having that relationship with your partner where you do feel safe enough, where you can start to call each other out on, wait a minute, this is what I'm seeing happening in you. Do you want to look at this or did you want to just stomp your feet? And I think we're very similar. We both kind of go into this defense of like it's one of those what do we call it? Those fuck you and thank you moments. Oh yeah, I hate what you're saying. And wait a minute, there's something here for me, right? Because jealousy, it doesn't matter what happened with your partner. Being jealous will not prevent something from happening in the future if it's meant to. But having those unresolved issues around abandonment, those will create exactly what you don't want to have happen.
Speaker A [00:29:07]:
So it's really exciting to hear that you're in this type of relationship now and I've got stuff going on in my own relationship that we're working through and trying to get to that new level. And it is so vulnerable to be in a relationship at that level where you're having those bigger conversations and you really are each as individuals being responsible for the role that you're playing in the relationship and what you're co creating together in your life and being very conscious of what you want to create as a couple together. That's work.
Speaker B [00:29:41]:
And that's the thing, is that.
Speaker A [00:29:46]:
We.
Speaker B [00:29:46]:
Can often say that we want the deeply connected relationship, but what does that require of us? It means there's no fucking hiding. There's no hiding. And the vulnerability in allowing ourselves to be truly seen is so confronting. It can be alarming at first because we've never allowed anyone in that deeply to see those parts of ourselves at that level. And we are then handing people the keys like we're handing this person the keys to hurt us. But we have to trust that they won't if we're going to allow the connection to grow and to trust ourselves to be able to handle whatever comes of this the jealousy piece, it doesn't mean I'm never going to experience the emotion of jealousy again at any point. It doesn't mean that. It means that I healed a new layer of an old wound.
Speaker B [00:30:39]:
Are there more layers. There might be. There often are. There can often be like new layers that come up. But I'd rather continue to address them with this person that I feel really safe with and continuing to build a sense of safety within myself as well than to hold someone else hostage for the mistakes of others. Because it was completely unfair for me to be projecting something onto someone who has done nothing wrong, like who has done nothing but honor and respect me in every possible way. And this is where it's tricky because when we're choosing someone, we choose their story too. We choose what has happened to them.
Speaker B [00:31:19]:
We choose what has gone on in their lives. And that's one of the considerations that we have to take when it comes to relationships. What are we choosing? What are the places that we are choosing from? What needs are we looking to have met? Can this other person meet the needs? Are we even having the conversation about needs with ourselves or with the other person? What are the expectations that we are carrying? And sometimes a lot of them are subconscious and we don't even realize it until something comes to light that brings it to the surface, essentially. And at least I was sharing this with you before we jumped on as well, is that one of the biggest things I started to realize was that the reason why I knew this was the right human was there's so many reasons in terms of a beautiful connection and everything else. But it was also because I was like, he and I both have the skills to work through the hardship. It's not a guarantee. Nothing is a guarantee. There are no guarantees.
Speaker B [00:32:13]:
But I would rather be in relationship with someone who has the skills to be able to do that and to be able to navigate the choppy waters that will inevitably come at one point or another, likely many times over in the course of a long relationship than not. And the good news is that these are skills that anyone can build. We don't come out of the womb knowing these skills. No one does. But we can learn them and anyone can learn them. That is a door that is open to anyone and everyone.
Speaker A [00:32:46]:
I agree. They just have to be willing to open the door. And not everybody's ready to do that. We talked about this. It usually takes some life altering event for you to say, okay, this thing happened. Do I want to show up for myself in a different way? Regardless of what they did in my own life, it was choosing to say, okay, this thing happened, but I get to choose to be responsible for my role in it and my healing. It's not up to him to change so that I can feel better. It's up to me to feel better.
Speaker A [00:33:18]:
And when you said when we choose people, we choose their stories as well, I believe that the partners we bring into our lives, they're perfect matches for our bullshit. Our bullshit matches their bullshit. And it's only a matter of time, right? So if you have a fear of abandonment issue, chances are you're going to attract somebody who has a fear of commitment, right. Or something along those lines. Right. We always see this. And within those relationships, if you can have these conversations, they can be incredibly healing. But again, it comes back to, have you done the work first around creating that safety in yourself so that you can create that sense of safety with your partner? And have they done that work on feeling safe within themselves? Because you need two safe people to show up together in order to grow forward.
Speaker A [00:34:07]:
Right. Otherwise, you've got one person with a Dysregulated nervous system and one person and I'm sure you hear this with your clients all the time. I know I do with mine is there's this tremendous fear that a lot of women have that if they start to do this work, they have an inner knowing that their relationship may not survive. And I believe that that's what prevents a lot of women from growing. That came up for me in my relationship many years ago, and I remember having the conversation with Macy at the time and saying, I'm going to grow anyways, and whatever happens in this relationship is going to happen. And that commitment to my growth, personally, professionally, financially, was literally the foundation that I stood on when shit did hit the fan. Right? Like, I was okay. I wasn't okay, but I was okay because of that.
(01:46):
Speaker A [00:35:04]:
And I just see so many women and men as well. I don't want to throw men under the bus here, right? But you and I were talking that comparative to women. The resources for men are quite small. Do you agree? Right.
Speaker B [00:35:24]:
Yeah.
Speaker A [00:35:24]:
Women I mean, I can go online that can 500 coaches. Like, some days I'm like, oh my God, a million of us out here. Right? And with men, there seems to be a smaller percentage of resources for them, yet they need to do this work as much as women need to do this work. And women continue to keep themselves small because they don't want to outgrow their men. Because I think in part, a lot of women know that there's not a lot of as many evolved men or men that are doing their work as there are women. So now we've got all these women that are doing this work to grow into the best version of themselves. But our partners, our counterparts, aren't getting into this work as much. I don't know how I ended up down this rabbit hole, but I hope you understand what I'm saying, right? Which I love hearing that Kelly.
Speaker A [00:36:15]:
It's Kelly, right?
Speaker B [00:36:16]:
Kelly, yeah.
Speaker A [00:36:18]:
I love hearing that he's doing this work for men and that he's surrounded by a circle of men that are also doing this work and moving this work onto the world, because it is a real fear that a lot of women have that not enough men are going to get on this train of being able to have these conversations.
Speaker B [00:36:35]:
Yeah. And it is a very legitimate fear. I had had that same thought in past relationships as well. I think that what it really comes down to is the fact that sometimes it only takes one person to change a relationship for the better too. That doesn't necessarily mean a negative if we shrink ourselves down and we make the active decision to not grow or sometimes even the subconscious decision to not grow as much because we are worried that it will expand us beyond the container that we are currently in. First of all, that's human. I just want everyone to give themselves some compassion there because that is incredibly human. Again, it's like choosing the familiar.
Speaker B [00:37:23]:
And there can be fear of success. There can be fear of what the growth will bring. There can be fear of the new layers of responsibility and new issues and everything else, including relational, that can come with growing beyond what we have been used to, what our set capacity has been up until this point. That we may have spent a lifetime being super comfy in and then growing beyond that is genuinely terrifying because no one ever said healing was fun. Healing is not fun. Growth is not necessarily fun. There are all kinds of issues that can come with all of these. So I want everyone to just like take a breath, give yourself some compassion for that.
Speaker B [00:38:07]:
Additionally, are we not only depriving ourselves of an opportunity to grow, but is it possible that we are also depriving the other person and the relational entity itself? Are we denying all three entities the opportunity to grow? And let's paint the so called worst case scenario. If we grow ourselves and our partner doesn't and the relational container falls apart, is it possible that it's because there's more out there for both parties than the one that you co created from the place that you co created it in? Is it possible? Is every scenario going to play out in a fairy tale fantasy? No. And that's also because fairy tales aren't real. That's not really how it works in real life and that's what my upcoming book is based around in a lot of ways too. But when we deny ourselves the opportunity for growth, we are also denying that opportunity for growth to everyone that we impact. And who do we often impact the most to the person closest to us that we are in relationship with. It doesn't mean that that growth, we can't control what the outcome is. But again, my partner has phrased this in a way that really speaks beautifully to this, is that you can be attached to the work but not attached to the outcome, like detached from the outcome, but be super attached to the work.
Speaker B [00:39:47]:
Like you put in the work, you do the growth, you do the hard things, you take the personal ownership, and then you have to allow the chips to fall at some point. And that could end up meaning the best possible case scenarios for both involved parties. If I had not ended my nine year relationship, and let's say even if there hadn't been infidelity or anything like that, if he and I had both chosen to stay in that relationship and I had denied myself the growth and everything else for that relationship, do you think either one of us would have been happy? Even if there was no infidelity, he and I would not have been happy. Neither one of us would have been happy. So I'm hopeful that he has gone on to better things that are much better suited to him and that he is thriving wherever he is. And I certainly am. But if I had contained myself, that would not have been the case. But also just acknowledging that this also doesn't happen all at once again, the rewiring of the nervous system takes time.
Speaker B [00:40:58]:
(02:07):
We don't generally just wake up one day and decide, okay, I'm going to grow into the best possible version of myself today, and whatever happens, happens. That's not how it works. It happens over time. And it also happens in a way, I believe that the universe gifts us with opportunities that allow us to grow and expand at the rate that we can figure it out. We get to decide what we do with those opportunities does not make them easy. It does also not take away anyone's pain. That is incredibly valid. But I just really see all of these things as opportunities and then we get to decide what to do with them.
Speaker A [00:41:37]:
I agree. You often don't see the true depth of the lessons till you're on the other side of it, but we can allow fear of what might come to stop us from actually moving forward. So I love that perspective and I've always taken that too. When I make decisions that are best for me, it's going to be best for everyone, even if they don't necessarily see it that way. I think that where women need to be cautious, though sometimes, is they will try. I've seen this as well. I'm sure you have as well. Is the trying super hard to change themselves and getting their partner on board with it.
Speaker A [00:42:21]:
Right? Because if I could just get him to change, then I would feel better. And this is the whole be detached from the outcome. You have to be committed and responsible for your own transformation and not be attached to whether or not your partner learns by osmosis or makes his own transformation. You just have to trust that things are going to play out exactly as they need to play out and you'll end up exactly where you're meant to. Because how could it be any other way, right? Even the fact that we tell ourselves a story that it could be different than it is, is like a fairy tale.
Speaker B [00:42:56]:
Yeah. And we try to drag the person along behind us. That's not going to serve the relationship. You are going to be resentful. The other person is going to be resentful. Even if your partner does grow in certain ways, it's not going to be genuine and authentic to them. It's going to be them perhaps trying to grow in a way that might work for you, but that's not necessarily what works for them. And that's a recipe for disaster as well.
Speaker B [00:43:22]:
The answer how do you get someone to change? You don't. You don't.
Speaker A [00:43:27]:
I'd share with you before we started recording that my relationship has been going through a lot of change, a lot of transition. And I was at a place in my relationship where my partner was really unhappy and very unhealthy, and I just had to let him be where he was at. Now, I could have made different decisions around that I didn't, but I was very detached from whatever was going to happen to him was going to happen. But in order for him to step into the changes he's now making, a lot of things had to happen for him. Period. I am a great coach. It is not my job to coach him. It is not my job to get his ass off the couch and get him to change.
Speaker A [00:44:09]:
I can only be responsible for the choices that I made. And a lot of people really struggle to understand that when they would ask me questions. So it was my choice to stay in the relationship. And like I said, everything happened the way it needed to happen in order for him to create the lasting change and the true change that he really needed so he could find his joy and happiness. So relationships are complicated. They are messy, they are beautiful, they are horrible, they are all things. So many people go into relationships wanting it to be a team sport. And I've often said that's like playing tennis with both of you on one side of the court and nobody on the other side.
Speaker A [00:44:54]:
Right. It doesn't make sense. You have to each be playing your own game so that you can play together. And that takes work. I am learning that a very healthy, powerful, grounded, loving, safe relationship is very much like running a business. It needs that much care and attention. And I think so many of us get into relationships and like you said, we have these expectations. It's just supposed to be this way.
Speaker A [00:45:20]:
And you get married to this person and you just go about your lives. And most of us are sleeping through our relationships with our partner and sleeping in our relationships with ourselves, which brings me back to your book. We're looking for that other person to give us all the things that we're unwilling to give ourselves. So I would love for you to talk about your book. I know it's not coming out until early 2024, and we'll have you back on the show before then because we always have so much to talk about. But your book, You Grow Me, which I said, oh, I remember seeing the COVID because it had the word complete above it with a big red line, but You Grow Me really what this conversation is about. So tell everybody about your book, where they can sign up to get a copy when it's available, where they can follow you, where they can learn more about you. If you want to give a shout out to your partner, which hopefully I'll get to meet him one day, that would be awesome, too.
Speaker A [00:46:17]:
Let's give everybody all the resources.
Speaker B [00:46:19]:
I love it. I love it. Okay, so, yeah, the book You Grow Me, it's coming out January or February 2024, and I wrote it with my co author, really dear friend of mine, Dr. Jade Tita. And there's a funny story as to how Jade and I have come together almost was it eleven years ago, I started teaching boot camp classes on the side while I was working my corporate job. And the company I started teaching boot camp classes for handed me a book on nutrition and fitness, and they said it was mandatory reading, and it was by Jade. I'd never heard of this guy who's this random guy, and I read the book, and it turned everything I thought I knew, and I thought I knew some things about fitness and nutrition, turned everything I thought I knew upside down. That was why I went back to school to become a holistic nutritionist.
(02:28):
Speaker B [00:47:09]:
That was why I started an online business, because I started following Jade, and I was like, oh, my God, you can have an online business. What is that? That then led to the transformation into I started doing relationship coaching. Jade and I connected initially via the podcast, and then over time, we became such close friends that we consider each other siblings at this point. And now, eleven years later, he and I are co authoring a book together. It's just the most random story, and he introduced me to my partner, Kelly Gardner. So, yes, Jade has been at the center of a lot of manifestations in my life in a lot of ways, but he and I have written this beautiful and hilarious book, I might add. We both punch people in the face and make at least we make each other crack up as we're reading what we've written. So hopefully it makes everyone else laugh as well.
Speaker B [00:48:00]:
But essentially, it's based on the idea that we cannot expect another human to fulfill all of our needs. We cannot expect someone else to be the thing that completes us, that missing puzzle piece in our life that will the magical unicorn who will come in love us like we've never been loved, and everything will be wonderful and we'll just ride off into the sunset together. So we are really breaking that apart and also teaching you how to show up in a more confidently, detached way, giving you some of the skills that you need to create really beautiful, healthy relationships that actually have the opportunity to thrive as opposed to and getting to the root of our own stories as well that can create these opportunities for it to thrive. Yeah. There's so many layers to it. And we unpack all of that in the book as well.
Speaker A [00:48:54]:
Yeah.
Speaker B [00:48:54]:
And then my partner, Kelly, he's an incredible coach. He also runs men's groups as well, but he works with men and women, but has incredible men's groups. So if anyone has people that they want in their life to go to start doing men's work, you can drop the breadcrumb. You cannot force anyone. I'm just going to say that. What's his website?
Speaker A [00:49:18]:
Where can we find him? Because I really love I do have men that listen to this podcast. Of course, my clients have husbands and partners, and I love that I have a resource now to send them to because I know that he's got to be a quality person if he's with you, like, Hands, I've known you for a long time now. No problem giving Kelly a shout out if he's with you.
Speaker B [00:49:40]:
Absolutely. Yeah. So his instagram is I am Kelly Gardner. Yeah. So I'll send you the information if you want to link it in the show notes. So, yes, you can connect with Kelly. He's got lots of great stuff going. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:49:53]:
So really beautiful things. He and I are starting to work with couples as well. Yeah. So really exciting things. Unfolding. And I'm honored to get to be publishing this book. I'm honored to get to be in relationship with this amazing human through the ups and through the downs. Yeah.
Speaker B [00:50:13]:
Just really incredible. And, Lisa, I have to give you credit because I reminded you of this when we jumped on that two and a half years ago, almost three years ago, I was bawling to you. I was in the darkest depression of my life. You literally intuitively sensed it, like some sort of bat signal, like you often do. You reached out to me on Instagram. You're like, how are you? I'm fine, Lisa. No, you're not. I'm booking you.
Speaker B [00:50:39]:
And I was bawling to you about so many different things that were not going well in my life, and a relationship was one of them. And you said to me, I am holding on to the vision for you of the relationship that I can see in your future, and I can hold onto it while you can't see it. And you have remained that little voice in my life. And I also want to be know getting into this relationship, this beautiful relationship that I'm in. Kelly and I are choosing each other and we are choosing to co create this. It does not mean that it is perfect, both of us. We would be okay if it didn't work out, which I am certainly not manifesting at all. But I want to be clear that it's not coming from a place of need.
Speaker B [00:51:33]:
It's coming from a place of genuine want. Because we don't have to have this perfect story unfold. We recognize the imperfections in the relationship and in each other and we're choosing to co create it because it adds to both of our lives rather than detracting. And that, I think, is the healthiest place to be in to choose a relationship. I don't want to hold up any relationship as like some perfect thing up on a pedestal. That's not what it is. Every single relationship has its shit. Every single relationship has its shit.
Speaker B [00:52:08]:
(02:49):
It's simply a matter of what you want to choose, what you want to co create. And again, having the skills to do it. Having the skills to do it. Some of the most powerful gifts that you can give to yourself is choosing to do your own work. Choosing to learn these skills like communication and compassion and having the courage to do all of it. To create beautiful, deeply connected relationships, particularly with yourself. That is everything else we've talked about on this episode. It boils down to this.
Speaker B [00:52:44]:
For me, that is by far the biggest point I want to make.
Speaker A [00:52:47]:
So powerful. I'm not going to take credit for you manifesting your relationship. And when I'm ready to share my story, maybe what I'll do is I'll have you on the podcast and you can walk me through that because I can't think of anybody better who could hold space for that conversation than you. So I'm grateful you came into my life. Right. It's been a lot of years now. I mean, you were a lot of years, five years coaching fitness back then, like baby business.
Speaker B [00:53:21]:
Baby business.
Speaker A [00:53:23]:
I really pride myself on coaching leaders. That's really what I do and I've had to take ownership of that. And that's how I've always seen you as a leader. I saw that in you before. You were willing to see that in yourself. So I'm like a proud mama bear when you step into how you are going to lead in the world and how powerful it's going to be and how impactful this book is going to be for people. And you are just such a master at creating connection. You always have been.
Speaker A [00:53:55]:
And it is something I admire and appreciate in you. As somebody who feels like the awkward kid in the room, often crying on me because you'll make me cry. I just reached somebody today. I'm like, hey, I'm that girl that introduced herself to you. I was like the awkward, weird one. That's how I feel. I see you and you're just such a master at creating beautiful connections and community and you know, I wish nothing but the absolute best for you. The best health, the best relationship, the best business, whatever success means to you.
Speaker A [00:54:29]:
But this is the power of doing this work. It takes time, but you can create your own extraordinary life and your own extraordinary life circumstances when you stay committed to that work on yourself and everything will fall into place. You don't know when, you don't know how. It's going to come with unexpected detours, roadblocks, pit stops, full stops. But you'll get there and now you're supporting other people and getting there as well and building connections. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you for listening because we had a long conversation before this podcast even started. Some of the stuff going on for me.
Speaker A [00:55:12]:
Thank you for being that person in my life that I know that I can trust and talk to about things as well that matters, that we've built this relationship. And thank you for everybody for tuning in and just listening in on this conversation. There's so many amazing nuggets in here. I hope it becomes one of our top listen to episodes. Should be really cool. I got a lot of I don't know how many episodes I'm up to now. 250 some OD episodes. So I still haven't run out of things to talk about.
Speaker B [00:55:42]:
No.
Speaker A [00:55:42]:
Thank you for coming. Tell everybody what is your Instagram handle so that they can find you on Instagram too.
Speaker B [00:55:47]:
Yeah, I'm over at Emily. Goff Coach. So emily G-O-U-G-H coach yeah. And Emilygoffcoaching.com, all the information to work with me over there. Yeah, work with me one on one. I also am restarting a women's group as well. So super excited about that. Couples work is going to start to become more prevalent I think, as well.
(03:10):
Speaker B [00:56:09]:
Yeah, there's a lot going on. And then the Room to Grow podcast too. And you will be coming on the podcast again very soon because it has been way too long.
Speaker A [00:56:15]:
Yes, I will put everything in the show notes. We will end this episode so that people don't have to continue to sit through our love fest for each. But thank you so much for being here. Such a great conversation.
Speaker B [00:56:27]:
You would an awesome everybody listening.
Speaker A [00:56:29]:
I'll catch you on the next episode. Bye.
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