October 30, 2024 • 59 mins
In today's episode, they dive deep into the world of AI, technology, and Ruby on Rails with our special guest, Gustavo Valenzuela. Charles and Valentino unpack everything from community-driven insights and AI advancements to the fascinating board game "Star Realms." They explore Gustavo’s journey, his innovative platform "Startups on Rails," and how it aims to document companies powered by Ruby on Rails. Plus, get ready for discussions on AI's transformative role in development, the economic landscape affecting tech hiring, and valuable entrepreneurial advice for developers. Whether you're curious about Hugging Face's new tools or looking for insights into Rails' vibrant community, this episode is packed with information, anecdotes, and actionable tips you won't want to miss.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rogues podcast.
This week, on our panel we have Valentino Stole.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Now, I'm Charles Maxwood from Top End Devs, And this
week we have a special guest and that is Gustavo Vealnezuela.
I hope I got close the gifts.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, So Gustavo and I had a conversation a little
bit ago. I think we met over LinkedIn, I want
to say, and yeah, I ran across startup Startups on
Rails and I was like, hey, this looks cool and
I wanted to know what he was doing with it.
So we had a chat about it. And I think
you're probably better to tell people what it is than me,
(00:45):
so I'll let you take it from here. You want
to just tell people kind of a little bit about
your background and then what Startups on Rails is and
what you're hoping to do with it.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Of course, thank you, Charles, I appreciate you. First, Like
I said, thank you for allowing me to be year
in your podcast. This is my first one, so I'm
excited hopefully the first of many. Yeah, this is like
the only type of interaction that we get amongstvelopers right
low for seems to be a very lonely, lonely professional
(01:13):
So podcast is a good way.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Unless your boss is overly involved in what you're doing,
probably won't never mind.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, Like you said, I I've been
working on the start of some rails for a while.
I am a movie on rails developer, so I am.
I guess you can consider.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Me a new.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
A movie or a how do they call it that,
the new career or forget the term that they use.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
But pretty much I've been uh, I haven't. I'm in
the proces of trying.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
To get into into into a full time employment. I've
had a few a few contracts here and there, but
you know, getting full time. But I've been doing un
rails actually since twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. That was the
first time I learned about rails through a boot camp.
The first time around, I kind of just wanted to
(02:10):
learn so that I can build my own products. That
was my original goal, and so I you know, I
did the boot com and then tried a few different
things didn't really work out. I got distracted in other
areas so kind of abandoned development up until.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I think it was the beginning of the pandemic. I
don't know if it was before or after.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Picked it up again, tried to you know, get good
at it, trying to kind of learn that the holes
that I had from the first time, and that went well,
and then the pandemic hit us and there was all
these layoffs. So I was, oh, my goodness, I came
back to development for nothing. But I started, yeah, that's crazy.
(02:58):
So I kept with the it and then I, you know,
because there weren't a lot of listings or jobs, I
wanted to kind of find out what what the rublen
rails companies in the area. Even if they I figure,
if they don't have a posting a job posting, I
could always reach out to them and try to you know,
(03:20):
get a connection going. And uh, I found out that
there wasn't any place that I could uh see what
companies were built on rebolion rails, so I can reach
out to them, and pretty much only the ones that
post job opening. So I decided to kind of start
building my own database on my own uh huh. And
(03:43):
so I figured, you know, I could use that, but
this could also be something that other people in the
community could use. So I found the uh the the
domain start off some rails dot com and I started
to build that as a database, just a docommentation of companies.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Built on rubies and rails.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And so, you know, I started sharing with the community,
decided to get some engagement with the community. I got
some feedback and people liked the product, so I, you know,
kept building it, and actually I stopped for bid and yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I stopped for a while. I stopped building it. So
now I'm back.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I've been building it like for the last couple of
months to make it into a full on project that
people could use. That's kind of my story more or less.
My father, two girls, a husband, and Ruben Rael's developer.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Awesome. Yeah, being a girl dad's fun. I think Valentino
has kids too, but I don't know if he has
girls or not.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I've got one.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, I have three and two boys. So but yeah,
so the way we could talk about girl daddy, but
that's that's a whole different thing. So yeah, So first
of all, I'm just kind of curious because I love
the idea. Right, It's like, who's who's out there using rails?
(05:18):
How do you start figuring out what companies actually use rails.
I mean some of them are kind of I guess
well known, right there's you know, base camp or Heroku
or get hub. I think Airbnb was started on rails.
And then I also am aware that like companies like Twitter,
(05:39):
you know, they started out using rails but then kind
of migrated to I think it's a mixed stack. They
probably have rails in there somewhere still because it's hard
to get rid of a technology once you adopted. But
I know that a lot of their stuff went to
Skala and stuff like that, and so yeah, how do
you decide who's on the list and how do you
figure out who's using rails?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, so that was a challenge, challenging situation in the beginning.
So my first approach was.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
To kind of manually get as many as I could
on my own and then reach out to the community
and do some type of outsourcing or crowdsourcing and get
people to kind of sub meet there either companies that
they work for or their own projects or companies they know.
And that worked to a certain degree, but you know,
(06:31):
I got a couple of hundred companies that way. So
what I'm doing now is I'm trying to do some
scraping and looking through different websites and listings and things
that ultimately I think there's about seven hundred thousand website
built on rooven rails.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
So that's gonna be a challenging task. So I'll take
any any ideas or imput from the community.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Is there a way for people to submit Hey, we
use rails right, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Usually what I do right now is I periodically, I
you know, post a tweet or x and ask people
to to give me some ideas. I should have built,
um hm, something where people can submit on my on
the website, but I haven't.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Built that yet.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah, but so.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Far it's just really through Twitter.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They use rails at doc Simity, don't they, Valentino.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yeah, we do pretty heavily.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Medicine.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Okay, Yeah, I noticed that there's a number of medical
companies or startups that I use rails, at least a handful.
I've seen a pretty big startups. Yes, this reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
I don't know if you know, but Andy Kroll has
recently like published using rails dot com. Yes, I do
like kind of how you how the layout of your
site works?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Though? Uh, where are you like.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Pulling information from that data sources as well, or uh.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm pulling in information from a lot of different sources. Yeah,
and I do know.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I mean he's one of the tan that just recently
popped up.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Right, I know there's so many now Yeah, yeah, I
guess where like where does this like? Uh, I guess
I'm trying. Like the design this is awesome. I wish
(09:02):
I had seen this, to be honest, like so many
times in my career, right, being able to filter it
by different things and tooling and things like that. Ah, Like,
how do you, like, how do you think about like
the consolidation of these different companies and.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You know, maybe what are your plans for it? I guess, yeah,
that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
So I just recently noticed that there's a number of companies,
So I kind of like, I don't want to build
something that's already you know, doesn't have a utility or
you know a lot of people are doing the same thing.
So I think there is opportunity to build on top
of these database right, to build features that could be
(09:53):
useful for a community, like I mean, the lowest hanging
tree is just categories, right, But also I want to
know I don't know, even categories that are more outside
of the typical categories, like I'm thinking companies that are
(10:15):
more active hiring unior developers, you know, or companies that
are more active supporting open source. That type of categorizing
I think, uh, just given the the users kind of
options as to who they would want to support, right
if in or or another category could be uh, you know,
(10:38):
the substitutes for the rail substitutes or rule substitute for
such and such a products. But uh, there's I think
opportunity to create content on top of that content targeted
towards not necessarily developers, but product product people or or
(10:59):
busines people. Ah, just marketing the tools and the framework
in general.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
That's just one.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
But I you know, I have a list of ideas
that I could build that I could build on top
of the the the database.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Another thing that I one of the things that I
want that I like to do is kind of get
involved with the developers in a company. So one of
the features that I'm working on right now is h
adding the ability to for companies to list open source
(11:43):
that they're working on, so if and if they need
help with whatever open source. So but through that if
I'm a developer looking to connect with other companies, I
can go to the company see there if they have
some open source open source each I can you know,
start participating through that and maybe through that hopefully make
(12:04):
a connection with that.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
With the company. If that makes any sense. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
There's a lot of things that I feel like could
be built on top of just the pure debase.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Yeah, you know, I love seeing that on the company view.
It would be really cool if you could like submit
like you know, a pull request right from the page
and say, hey, I'm I'm up.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I'd like to update.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
The information here, like have a signing with GitHub kind
of thing so you can verify that they're like part
of that organization even, right. Yeah, Like it definitely like
feels like that's like what you could do. Like, ah, yeah,
I don't know, Like how do you That's the hard
(12:54):
part with like all of this stuff is like, you know,
it's just you, right, community, Like, you know, how how
do you get like the community involved in all of
these different sites that exist and guarded support?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right? Like?
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Uh, where where do you find like the most like
people want to like help contribute to so far? Uh?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
You mean in my personal project or just in Enner
first start up on reels.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, you know where.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
So I haven't really, to be honest, the last couple
of few couple of months, I haven't been interacting. But
that's a good question. I can ask the community as
to where a direction they would like for this to go.
But and then you're asking in terms of like having
people ah contribute to this project or is that the question,
(13:58):
or or just what people would like in terms of features.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
I guess I mentioned in both, but I was more
like where people are are currently like interested in contributing
to add stuff like do you see uh, do you
see people are like you know, they reach out to
you about wanting to update specific things or it's a
pretty low volume at this point.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, to be honest, I haven't yet. I haven't really
lounged officially, so I haven't put it out out there.
But that is a good question. I haven't asked, I
haven't seen any I haven't had any requests. And also
the idea of maybe open sourcing this project sounds interesting, right,
(14:45):
so people can mhm, you know, contribute directly. That would
be a good idea. I would have to clean my
database it's a little embarrassing right now.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That's that's a story of like more than half my code.
It's like, oh, there's a ton of junk in here.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, so that's but that's an interesting idea, and it's
another another way to gain experience, right managing this open
source for it would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, I'm also curious. So you mentioned that you wanted
to know what companies were kind of local to you
that were using rails you know, maybe for a job
search or something. But you know, and that kind of
appeals to me. I'm curious also just from kind of
(15:45):
the broader view, because a lot of people that I
talked to are how do I put it there, they're
kind of looking for their next position or their next
you know whatever, their next job. And yeah, it's just
you know, I think something like that would really help.
(16:08):
But also with all the layoffs and everything else, do
you see the rails market shrinking or growing or do
you have a feeling about that?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, I mean I just know that, but you're about
eighteen months ago. I have recruiters hitting me up. You know,
I wouldn't normally make it through the whole interview, but
right now, you know, I'm trying to buy and things
of that. It's hard. I mean, in terms of the feeling,
it doesn't feel like there's openings, you know. Yeah, yeah,
(16:42):
so I don't know if it's a good time if
the openings are there, and you just have to directly
kind of get in tight to the company and see
if you can get in that way, or they just
flat out no openings or no opportunities. But in any case,
it's always better to to try out different fighters, right
(17:04):
and your.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, well, and it's it's also interesting because I think
there are companies that use rails that could use the help,
but because of the way the economy is sitting right now,
it's you know, it's it's just hard for them to
be able to afford or justify the additional headcount.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
It's not, hey, there's not work to be done. It's just,
you know, given the current state of things, we're not comfortable,
you know, making the commitment to pay another salary given
our you know, where we see finances going and where
we see the the economy going long term. Because yeah,
(17:48):
if you want to stay open, you kind of have
to plan ahead with your cash flow, and it's hard.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's just a matter of numbers, right,
it's math.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, I think to me that you know that the
economy together with AI, which I've been using, you know,
the last few months, more and more, I do think
it makes developers way more.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Effective, right way more.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I know for me, it's says a feature that I
could sometimes taken two days to do, I can do
it in half a day, you know. And that's me
being like super careful, you know, looking at everything and
trying to analyze everything and not really knowing my way around.
But I think that it's a fact to me that
(18:36):
some that you know, needed two or three developers, maybe
not one developer can do it, and that's just a reality.
But yeah, I think a good way for developers like
that our unemployee, I think a good alternative is building
(18:58):
your own products, right building.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm being this right you comment entrepreneurial?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yeah, So how did you build this thing? What? Like,
what's uh what's the stack? What did you go with?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So Ruby and rails? That's what I've been doing for
a for a while. Fastest thing, you.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Know, are you using all the shiny new tools like
the all the solid stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
No, I haven't. I haven't even gotten into into that.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like there's so much, so much everything.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I feel like that's one thing that's missing that maybe
some magic contributor out there will contribute. But like, just
like a all the features of reels, like pick them apart,
look at all the lists, like you know, editors, like
you know, drop down selects, forms, like all the different
(19:59):
things that you can do with it. Just like that
you can just see better because I feel like the
guides are a great start, but like it's more granular
that I want, right, Like I want okay, Like I'm
working on email stuff, like what features do I have
available in rails?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Right?
Speaker 5 (20:17):
And I feel like there's so many just for email, right,
Like it would be interesting to see a visualization of that.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Uh so you're talking about like features in action mailer
and then there's also the other one that reads the emails.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Yeah, and even on a you know, a more scoped
level of like okay, like I have like a you know,
an active record model, Like what are all the features
that I can inject into this model?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Right?
Speaker 5 (20:48):
Because I'm using active record as like a base class, right,
and like there's so many like DSL methods you could
use that are specific to that that would be nice
to just like kind of like the guides like have
a good like general overview of like associations and like
smaller pieces, right, but like, uh, I don't know, like
(21:11):
what about the more specific Uh you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, in different use cases.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You know, it's I think it's like, yeah, is it doubles,
so you know, it's it's that is sort with frameworks
like grails, right, that it's so good for you because
it gives you everything. But on the other hand, it's
to you know, gives you everything. So there's tones and
tones and tones of features and uh, aspectude that are
(21:42):
you know, it's hard to know everything.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
But I think that almost gets sold gets sold by AI. Right.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
AI is good at scrolling through everything, and then we
just verify that it's indeed what we need. You know,
I think that's AI and real it's it's a good parent.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Would I would say that that is kind of true.
It depends on what they're training it on. Right, So
like Action Mailbox was the other library I was trying
to think of, right where it effectively it goes and
it grabs the emails and then it essentially routes it
through something that's sort of like a controller, right, and
(22:29):
so then it does things with the emails, which I
think is really slick, right, And that's that's something that
I can think of a couple of use cases for.
But you know, I don't know if a lot of
people are using it, and so I don't know if
the code that they have fed into the AI large
(22:52):
language models to say, hey, this is a good you know,
a good example of how to do this, right, because
it has to train it a bunch of times, and
so if you ask it for action mailbox code, it
may not be great, right, But if you're looking at
some of the more common stuff like active record and
a lot of the more common use cases that people
(23:14):
put active record to, I would imagine that that's probably
a lot more commonly gonna come up and be handled
well by.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
You know, by.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
The large language models, right, because you're gonna you're gonna
have a zillion examples because everybody's using models. But even then,
like if there's some obscure feature that not a lot
of people use, even if it's a powerful one and
could do good things for your app, it may not
opt for it because it's been trained over and over
(23:49):
and over again on how people actually solve the problem,
and so yeah, I can see where it comes in
and is helpful, but I think I think, yeah, the
the less well used features your AI may not be
trained well enough to pick it up and give you
the option.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah. No, I agree.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I think you still need to be you know, knowledgeable,
but I think it's hard to keep all that overhead
in mind when your coding.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Wright's.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, so that's a good way to kind of like
I mean, AI that's well thinking of everything and drinking
it down and then verifying, right, we've verify it well.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, And I'm not saying that you're wrong to do it. However,
the AI tells you too if it works, because it
does save you time and effort. Right, you don't have
to go look up the API and make sure you
have all the arguments in the right order, and you
know whatever else, And they're they're a handful of common
things in rails, like I can never remember if it's
(24:56):
options for select from collection or options from collect for select,
and I always screw it up because I always guess
it wrong. Right, And so having the AI go Oh
I know what you doing. Yeah, that's that's kind of nice.
But yeah, you know, and so then yeah, sometimes it'll
give me a longer stimpet of code and I'll wind
(25:17):
up tweaking it because it's like, yeah, this is close,
but it's not exact. Yeah, and so yeah, So then
it saves me a bunch of time. And even if
there's a more elegant solution, it doesn't matter that I
don't know it, because I have something that works. I
can look at it and visually parse it and I
didn't have to spend two hours figuring out how to
do it the other way.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, speaking of AI, it makes me think about your
new startup on real site where you have like a
real AI category, and it makes me like imagine, like
I would love to be able to see like what
companies are using so reels, like not only just like
(26:02):
reels and AI specifically, but like, all right, is anybody
actually using action mailbox in a production app? Like how
are they using it? Like are they willing to disclose that?
Like just an itemized list?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Right?
Speaker 5 (26:14):
Like that would be super helpful, like not only for
like the reels community in general, right, Like but uh,
you know how how are people building stuff, right, like
exposing like the use cases, because like there's so many
like right, Like it seems like there are so many
that like also give talks at these conferences all the time,
(26:36):
and you'd.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Think like there it would there would.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Be you know, a way to expose that other than
just like publishing a conference talk.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, you know, one thousand.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, that's exactly why I kind of high you there
in the corner because I.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Haven't gotten in that direction. But you know that's a
completely different thing, you know, doing a little research and yeah,
but yeah, that's that's something I'm interesting too. And I'm
figuring out who's using it and how they're using it,
figuring out the companies but also, like you said, the
details as to how they're using it. Yeah, that's something
(27:14):
that I'll definitely work on. And I mean that's the
newest thing. I should probably be working.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
On it right now. That's a good apportunity for the content.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I mean you can start like uh, you know, ingesting
the conference video talks and just like have ai you know, categorize.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Which company they work for and what they're working on.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
One one other thing that comes to mind that would
be interesting with this, and I know we're kind of
brainstorming this, but I mean, you know, you said your
pre launch and you know, these are all ideas, and
maybe we could talk about what the minimum viable product
looks like. But I keep hearing from people that rails
is dying, and you know, I I understand some of
(28:01):
the arguments that people make, but I still see a
lot of companies starting up on rails, and I also
see a lot of companies that have adopted rails or
that started on rails you know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty
years ago, that are doubling and tripling down on it.
And so I don't know that, and maybe maybe we
(28:23):
just need a better definition of what people mean by dying,
but it'd be interesting to see. Okay, if you start
a startup with rails, right, then you know, then it
gets listed in that way we can see and then
some of the other companies, right, they come in and
they say we started in you know, twenty twenty or
(28:45):
twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, right, and so
you can see how long they've been out there and
you know, running things on rails, and so that way
we kind of get a feel for Okay, yeah, there
were you know, a gazillion companies started up in two
thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, twenty ten, right,
And then you get into twenty sixteen and maybe they're
(29:07):
they're you know, half that many. Right, you get to
twenty twenty and you can see, oh, there's an uptick
here for whatever reason, or it'd be really fascinating just
to kind of see how that all comes out. And
then people can see, oh, okay, we've got you know,
we have a list of you know, one hundred startups
(29:27):
that started in twenty twenty four, right, and more getting
at it all the time. And you know, of the
one hundred and twenty of them are venture funded, right,
which means that they I was going to say they
have a better chance of making it, but that's not
necessarily true. But you know, so many are venture funded,
(29:49):
so many are kind of micro sas kind of tiny services,
so many of them are, right, And so then you
can get an idea of oh, okay, so this is
where this is where the action's at, and we can
see what the trend is. Right, we'd say, okay, we're
(30:09):
getting more companies in in you know, also in industries
right where which you're already doing. Right, we're seeing more
healthcare apps starting up, or we're seeing more education apps
starting up, or you know, hey, given the current political climate,
we're seeing a lot more political bent apps coming out,
(30:32):
or you know whatever. So anyway, I think that'd be
really really interesting just to kind of see what that
trend line looks like, because it's it's kind of hard
to know, but if you give people a way to
self report anyway.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
In the data aspect of feed is some that is
I'm fascinated by, you know, and the idea that we
can it can them way more grandl granular that how
we you know, we we uh process or or play
with the data, you know, in terms of like when
they started, how are they doing, you know, what type
(31:13):
of volume in terms of sales or revenue and things
like that, specific industries and things of that.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
To me, I find that very interesting.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And I also think that you could also influence potential
entrepreneurs right that are trying to build their own products.
We can kind of tailor the data and into content
and put it out there to you know, see if
people can make decisions based on the data.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yep, Yeah, I think a lot of it just comes
down to what questions are people going to ask of
a system like this, and then what data do you
need in order to answer them?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's a kicking, kicking and an egg problem situation, right.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah. I think if the community just fully adopted you know,
startups on rails or you know, something like it, and
you know, everybody just kind of commonly submitted to it
and kept it up to date, I think it would
be very interesting, just because I think we would be
(32:24):
getting decent data on that. And I don't know that
every company's going to be willing to tell you, hey,
we're using these gems or these features of rails, but
you know, the ones that are willing to share it,
you can at least give us some idea what's going on.
But as for hey, we've been around this long and
we're using rails, right, Or maybe we've been around this
(32:47):
long and we've been using rails and we had a
major rewrite or a significant chunk of our stuff was
kind of reworked at this point, right, that might be interesting.
But again, you know, even if they just put in
we started in two thousand and six, we've been using
rails the whole time. You know, wor company that's X
(33:09):
so many big, or maybe you go ask LinkedIn how
big is this company? Then right then you get an
idea of what we're looking at.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah, that is definitely interesting. And I think what I
found over time was that you need more compelling features
or reasons for people to come back to the website,
both the users, right and the companies. So and that's
(33:40):
kind of why I get I get trapped. Okay, what
can I do to make it compelling, to make it
more appealing for people to want to participate, both companies
and users. So one of the things that I was
thinking of, you know, is perhaps using the company page
as a qut pot the engineering page that a lot
(34:02):
of websites have, right, Like you go to airbnbs like engineering,
you'll see blocks related to engineering and you see, like
when you talked about, like more detailed things about what
they've been doing. They post their open source you know, uh,
stuff that is related to ah to.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
The engineering community.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
And I think that might be a service that could
be offered to smaller companies, like you have the airbnbs
that have the resources to have these type of pages.
But this could be something that targets smaller companies that
you know, a place where they can post a data
(34:47):
or content related engineering to engineering.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, the challenging has been part has been that, like
how can we compel companies to to piece of paid
and through that also get users to want to busy.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
You can an innate problem.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
As I said before, Yeah, I mean to your point though,
like a lot of companies they want, right like exposure.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
They want other developers to know what they're working on,
what they're doing in the community, right like there this
despite what many people may say about like the you know,
hiring market for for any programming, but like real specifically
right like, uh, they still want that exposure. Like there's
(35:45):
gonna be a point where you know, hiring is hot again,
right Like it's it's goes in cycles, you know, like
there are always lulls and there's always highs like and uh,
you know as like any company that is like you
know tight on resources, which you know, from like a
(36:06):
developer standpoint, right like which just happens like eventually, like
once you're doing a certain size, you're like gonna have
this point where Okay, you've been developing this new thing
for so long and then it releases and you're like,
oh crap, like everybody's using it, and we need more
people to manage this thing that we've built, right Like,
(36:27):
I feel like it's just like a thing that happens,
and you want as a company to like get the
exposure to the people that you know could potentially.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Be working for, you know, the company. H And I
don't know.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
I feel like as a developer who has looked for
a job before, right Like, I've looked to see who's like,
you know, doing the conferences, who's like present in the community,
right Like, who's open sourcing stuff like? These are all
things that I think about personally, And it's all just
a matter of expose, sure for the company, right And
(37:01):
there's honestly a lot of great companies out there that
don't do that, right Uh. And is there a way
where that could process could just be a little easier,
right Uh? I think it's what you're getting at, uh.
And I think that's completely the case. Like making it
just like a uniform way where people can like you know,
(37:22):
publish numbers to some you know, public public place, I
feel like.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Uh is what what's needed really? Uh? We were still
lacking that in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yeah, but yeah, that's it, That's that's a direction, right.
But to me, I'm the type of personality that I
want everything, so yeah, I suffered with paralysis of analysis.
So oh that that's a that's a good feature, and
I end up wanting to build everything and then you
end up building building nothing. So but I think that's
(37:59):
a strategy for like an MVP, you know, going in
that direction, allowing companies to to build their own profile
and post their technical content.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah, that's something that all serves the thing you think about. Yep.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So I'm curious as we're kind of digging through this.
I think we've had a lot of ideas around what
we could do or what you could do with startups
on rails. But I'm a little curious, like what other
resources that are kind of like this would you like
to see for the Ruby or rails community, because it
(38:43):
seems like there are definitely opportunities out there for us
to provide something that allows rails developers to get information on,
or collaborate on, or you know whatever on other aspects
of the community.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, so I think one that comes to mind right now,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Not necessarily related to.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
These is more on the way of helping newcomers or
new developers navigate through what I call the last mile
of developing, the last mile of learning, right, that last
mile where it's like, Okay, you've learned, you've been through
(39:36):
all these book cooms or self learning. That last piece
of learning.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
That is going to give you the ability to be
ready job ready, right, which I think that content is
hard to find.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
One of the things that I was part of was
the Agency of Learning. A friend of mine, Dave Paola,
he uh started which is just pretty much get a
group of people together, a group of young developers and
a few senior developers, and what we did was uh
(40:12):
participate in open source. We helped, you know, contributed to
open source, but we did in a way that was
more structure in that we we we almost did it
like a job, right, So uh pick an issue, you know,
submit a proposal, and the proposal is going to be
(40:35):
not necessarily code, just like what are you It was
a strategy on how you're going to solve this issue.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
There's a code review that a community code review, and.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
You know where they picked, you know, go ad you
and ask you questions and whilst you have a pretty
solid proposal, you're going to you know, submita you know,
work on the issue and.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
And then submit and get a review.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
So I think that was very helpful in terms of
getting like almost almost professional experience.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Right.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I don't know if I haven't I haven't really worked
for a company, but I don't know if that's the
way it would work. But it felt like, Okay, this
is It feels like I can talk about something that
looks like a professional experience. So that was a way
that they've kind of visualized this issue or this problem
(41:28):
the last mile. But you know, I think there's something
there like helping people navigate through the last mile.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But I also know that, you know, the the the
state of the industry is not necessarily favorable for a
new developers. So I don't know if that's it's a
good timing for that.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Mhmm.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I like the idea of kind of the last mile. Right,
It's okay, you can build a rails application, but here's
the rest of the stuff. If you have to be
able to do or know how to be right that
they don't necessarily teach you or spend a lot of
time on.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Correct yeah, and a lot of these are more untangible,
you know, things that you got to wrestle, you know,
you got to wrestle with you know, the dynamics on
on your amount of year, you know your engine year,
amount of year. A lot of it is emotionally. You
get some feedback and I did I work so hard
on this, what do you mean? I still need to
do more. And it has to do with my references,
(42:29):
like I prefer this way. I know it works with
these the way I prefer things like that that are
not very tangible. Ah, that was helpful to.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Me, right, very cool. Well, I told you guys, I
have a hard stop coming up, so I'm going to
push us over to picks. This has been fun to
talk about. I mean, one other thing that I've been
looking at putting together actually is a directory of learning
resources for Ruby and rails, right, and so essentially it
(43:00):
would list and I've I've started on the codebase and
I've been I've been working on it for a while.
I just haven't launched it yet, but and I've based
it on our picks. So it's called rubypicks dot com.
But the idea is is yeah, so it's here, you know,
you can search podcasts or podcast episodes. You can search
YouTube videos, conference talks, you know, blog posts, documentation, right,
(43:27):
and it'll you tell it kind of what you're looking for, gems,
uh so ruby gems, and then it'll list out all
the resources out there, and then people can rate and
review them and things like that, so that the ones
that get more highly rated, you know. And we also
try and attach versions, right so that you know, you
(43:48):
can put in what version of rails or device or
whatever you're using. But yeah, then then it'll come back
and say, okay, these are some highly rated resources that
align with what you're doing. And so then you know,
maybe you get the walkthrough on how to set up
stripe or the walkthrough on how to whatever. And the
(44:09):
other thing is is that I would like to share
some of the search data on the back end that
says essentially, these are the most common searches that don't
have a lot of results, and that way people know, oh,
I could do a video on this, right, or hey,
I could write a blog post on this and just
(44:30):
kind of spur the community into taking action and providing
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
So oh that sounds like a good idea. Yeah, I
like that so people don't waste their time. And yeah,
it happened to me too that you wasted working on
material that might not be as relevant. But if you
know what's number one, umber two, number three, you know
that's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, let's go ahead and do pics. Valentino,
you want to start us off.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Yeah, sure, So all my picks are AI related today,
probably as usual. But I've been the folks at hugging
Face are just like on fire lately, and I've been
experimenting there so much. I mean, they're just announcing stuff
(45:21):
like crazy. Yeah, I've been playing with They have transformers
dot js, which basically lets you run inference using the
onyx runtime of LM models in the browser using WASM,
and so you can download various models from hugging Face
and I perform the inference of various features like summarizing
(45:45):
or categorizing stuff for all kinds of different pipelines that
they provide.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
And you can just do it all in the browser.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
So if you have sensitive information you don't want like
pass to servers, and you want to do some stuff
in the browser, it works really well. I even got
it to do a rag in the browser, just fully
local in the browser doing embeddings and then searching it
(46:13):
and running a small model to do the generation. But
it works and it's just like crazy.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
So I'm excited to mess around with that more.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
So.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
That's transformers JS. They have a GitHub board and everything,
and the other one that they also released, I'm trying
to get the name of it, but they have a
so they have a leaderboards that they manage where they
run all the large language through different arenas and rankings,
(46:50):
and so they've open sourced the pipeline that they use
for running those valuations and have open source kind of
to try and garner support from the community to like
publish different open evaluation data sets and algorithms and things
like that, and it's just really awesome and well done.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
I think it's called light email.
Speaker 5 (47:23):
And then on top of that, on the evaluation side,
where if you're not familiar with the evaluations are just a
matter of like testing whether or not the outputs to
do a specific thing, and you can evaluate them in
a lot of different criteria. But they also published a
guide book which has like a huge just data bank
(47:43):
of different ways that you can evaluate lllms and so
LMS as a judge human evaluations. They have benchmarking and
it's just like a great like go to guide for
doing all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Interesting, awesome.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Ask a question regarding your the first one that you pick.
What kind of machine are you using to run do model?
Are you running from your local machine.
Speaker 4 (48:15):
Or it's local machine? I have an M one MacBook.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
I have not tried it on a lesser machine, so
I am curious how well it performs on maybe you know,
a Chromebook or something like that.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
I haven't tested it.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah, and one and and then what kind of are
RAM Do you have a big run for that? Because
I think it's it's it's rama pretty important resource for that.
Speaker 5 (48:46):
So they they do a combination blend of GPU and CPU. Okay, uh,
and so it's primarily like the GPU and CPU that
get the most hit out of it. Browsers do let
you kind of like download almost infinite amount of content
(49:07):
to the browsers cash, which is nice. But you know,
so it's more of like the storage is not necessarily
an issue because it'll store it just in the browser
as like a staged aspect for the for the model itself.
But yeah, that's a good question about memory.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
I haven't done any benchmarks yet on on the memory consumption.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Wow, thank you cool.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, I'm I'm diving in. Are you done? Because I
can just roll into my picks otherwise.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Oh yeah, that was it.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
So I usually do a board gamekick pick first, so
I'll just throw one out there real quick. This is
one that I actually played on my phone in my
computer and not with actual physical piece. It's Star Realms.
I don't know if you all have played that, but
it's a card game and it's got a whole bunch
of different sets that go into it, which makes it fun.
(50:13):
But anyway, you can pick it up. You can play
against people on the internet, and yeah, it's a deck
building game, so you you know, you draft cards and
you play cards, and you you know, you try and
get good combinations of the cards that work together. Usually
it's by playing multiple cards are the same color, but
not always. So anyway, I'm gonna pick Star Realms. I
(50:38):
didn't look it up on board game Geek, but I
know that you can get physical cards, and I'm sure
that they have it on here and just let me
look it up. Yeah, they've got a twenty twenty fourteen
(51:05):
which is the the original version, and then you also
they have a twenty twenty one version that has extra
player decks and the play mat and stuff like that,
and then there are a whole bunch of expansions. There's
Gambit Colony Wars Frontiers. Anyway, the base game is rated
(51:27):
A weighted at one point ninety two. So, you know,
casual gamer, It's more complicated than you're kind of really
really really simple games, but it's it's definitely learnable for
most people who just want a casual game. So I
(51:47):
tell people that too is about where, you know, kind
of the casual game with enough complexity to make it interesting,
but not so much that you have to actually go
back to the rule book periodically to make sure that
you're doing it right. Anyway, So so yeah, so Star
Realms and then yeah, so I'm gonna do kind of
(52:13):
the shameless self promotion stuff. I'm also trying to find
a website for Star Realms because I know that you
can just play it online. You can get it on
Steam I think, and then there's the mobile app as well. Anyway,
so I've been talking to a lot of folks. I
(52:37):
haven't gone as deep as Valentino has with the AI stuff,
but I've been I've been getting into it a bunch,
and I recently had my contract end and so I
have a lot more time to start really diving in
and building out what I want to build. But a
(52:59):
lot of folks are interested learning it, and so what
I'm working on right now is actually building out a
handful of AI systems, mostly kind of the agentic ai
sort of things that we talked to Obi about. And
I'm going to be putting on a boot camp at
the beginning of next year and just walking people through
(53:20):
a lot of this stuff. You know, a lot of
the approaches to setting up these agents and then you know,
kind of fine tuning what they get. So keep an
eye out for that. I do have a domain that
I purchased for it, but I haven't set it up yet.
So I'm probably going to just start dropping ads into
(53:42):
the shows, you know, in lieu of some of the
ads that wind up getting put in that I get
complaints about, So just keep an eye out for that.
I think it was agentic ai boot camp dot com
or something like that. But anyway, so I'm doing that,
and then and then yeah, I'm I'm kind of overhauling
(54:07):
top end devs and you know, updating the members area
and things like that, and so you know, you'll you'll
have a new experience for the inside of the boot camp.
The way that I'm gonna run it though, is between
now and Black Friday, you'll you can get the Black
Friday deal. So I'm looking at running essentially weekly help sessions, right,
(54:36):
so you'll you'll get the curriculum for the boot camp
every week and I'm looking at three or four months.
We'll have weekly calls for six months. And the price
I'm looking at is thirty five hundred dollars. But if
you do Black Friday, you get two thousand dollars. I
also intend to do AI Summit in December or January,
(55:02):
and you will get a ticket to that. If you
sign up for the Black Fridays, you get you get
the discount, you get the AI Summit, and then you yeah,
like I said, you get the calls for six months,
and so yeah, that's that's the plan there. Did I
say that the discount was for two thousand dollars for
(55:24):
the Black Friday anyway, So that's that's that's what I'm
working on.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
I have to say that I also just did a
stripe connect. I had to stripe connect to top end
devs so that I can because there are other podcasts
that I want to start that are not programming podcasts,
and so I don't want to put them on top
end devs because then it's like, oh, there's a political
(55:52):
podcast on here. Hey that you know, Chuck's Church Stuffs
is on is on here, right, and so yeah, so
I'm looking gonna spin some of that off. And so
I was like, Okay, I want to do multi tenancy,
but then I, you know, I want them to kind
of run independently on the financial end of things, whether
it's sponsorships or people buying courses or anything like that.
(56:14):
So anyway, strike connect is pretty cool and it's not
I was worried it was gonna be super complicated to
set up, and it wasn't. So anyway, pretty happy with that.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna pick strike Connect as well.
All right, Gustavo, what are your picks?
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Thank you so for me in terms of you know,
outside of development, it's just children, right, So I'm gonna
pick Disney Princesses is my pig of the week.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
I spent the last three days in Disneyland with a
Disney Hotel.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Oh fun.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, it was good. It was good.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
We took our two daughters to I guess a make
cover experience where they give him the whole treatment, you know,
they you know, they received them as princesses. They you know,
do the whole you know, princesses, set up, change their
outfits and then they take him for pictures and the
whole time they're like blown away, they're exciting, they do,
(57:23):
you know, taking in the role of princesses. So that
was a great experience for us and for the kids.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
So that's my pick up the week Busney Princesses.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
Awesome. Yeah, it's funny because all of my wife and
my girls, they all have different princesses that they identify with.
And what's funny is is none of them picked the
same one.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
So that is yeah, that's no, that's good. That's good
because I know my two daughters sometimes they they want
to pick the same one and a little one.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
And I was like, no, you're not, you're all of
you can be all.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Of Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
For my wife, it's Aurora Sleeping Beauty, my oldest daughter
it was Cinderella. My middle daughter was Ariel, and my
youngest daughter daughter. Funny enough, you see all the little
girls that want to be Elsa. She wanted to be
on A. So anyway, good the one that didn't have
the magic powers or whatever. But anyway, yeah, very fun.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Yeah, I feel like there's a big marketing and business
lesson that could be learned through that. I think it's
the have the market corner, you know, do his name?
Speaker 1 (58:34):
Yeah they do? Yeah, good deal. If people want to
find you online, Gustavo, where do they find you? Or
if they want to hire you because you said you
were looking at on the market.
Speaker 2 (58:46):
Yeah, so Twitter, I'm usually that's where I interact the most.
G v G be a victor one one a zero.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
And uh or yeah that's pretty much eat right now.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
GV one one eight zero.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
Correct Gustavo Venezuela my first name for my first better
initials for my name, and then one one zero give.
Speaker 1 (59:18):
Me one one a zero awesome. Yeah, I just put
that into the YouTube and Facebook. Yeah, I'm looking to
if you're hiring Chuck at top ends dot com or
you email me. All right, let's go ahead and wrap
it up. Thanks for coming, Gustavo, thank you, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (59:39):
All right, until next time, folks max out
Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rogues podcast.
This week, on our panel we have Valentino Stole.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hey.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Now, I'm Charles Maxwood from Top End Devs, And this
week we have a special guest and that is Gustavo Vealnezuela.
I hope I got close the gifts.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, So Gustavo and I had a conversation a little
bit ago. I think we met over LinkedIn, I want
to say, and yeah, I ran across startup Startups on
Rails and I was like, hey, this looks cool and
I wanted to know what he was doing with it.
So we had a chat about it. And I think
you're probably better to tell people what it is than me,
(00:45):
so I'll let you take it from here. You want
to just tell people kind of a little bit about
your background and then what Startups on Rails is and
what you're hoping to do with it.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Of course, thank you, Charles, I appreciate you. First, Like
I said, thank you for allowing me to be year
in your podcast. This is my first one, so I'm
excited hopefully the first of many. Yeah, this is like
the only type of interaction that we get amongstvelopers right
low for seems to be a very lonely, lonely professional
(01:13):
So podcast is a good way.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Unless your boss is overly involved in what you're doing,
probably won't never mind.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, Like you said, I I've been
working on the start of some rails for a while.
I am a movie on rails developer, so I am.
I guess you can consider.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Me a new.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
A movie or a how do they call it that,
the new career or forget the term that they use.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
But pretty much I've been uh, I haven't. I'm in
the proces of trying.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
To get into into into a full time employment. I've
had a few a few contracts here and there, but
you know, getting full time. But I've been doing un
rails actually since twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. That was the
first time I learned about rails through a boot camp.
The first time around, I kind of just wanted to
(02:10):
learn so that I can build my own products. That
was my original goal, and so I you know, I
did the boot com and then tried a few different
things didn't really work out. I got distracted in other
areas so kind of abandoned development up until.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I think it was the beginning of the pandemic. I
don't know if it was before or after.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Picked it up again, tried to you know, get good
at it, trying to kind of learn that the holes
that I had from the first time, and that went well,
and then the pandemic hit us and there was all
these layoffs. So I was, oh, my goodness, I came
back to development for nothing. But I started, yeah, that's crazy.
(02:58):
So I kept with the it and then I, you know,
because there weren't a lot of listings or jobs, I
wanted to kind of find out what what the rublen
rails companies in the area. Even if they I figure,
if they don't have a posting a job posting, I
could always reach out to them and try to you know,
(03:20):
get a connection going. And uh, I found out that
there wasn't any place that I could uh see what
companies were built on rebolion rails, so I can reach
out to them, and pretty much only the ones that
post job opening. So I decided to kind of start
building my own database on my own uh huh. And
(03:43):
so I figured, you know, I could use that, but
this could also be something that other people in the
community could use. So I found the uh the the
domain start off some rails dot com and I started
to build that as a database, just a docommentation of companies.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Built on rubies and rails.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And so, you know, I started sharing with the community,
decided to get some engagement with the community. I got
some feedback and people liked the product, so I, you know,
kept building it, and actually I stopped for bid and yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I stopped for a while. I stopped building it. So
now I'm back.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I've been building it like for the last couple of
months to make it into a full on project that
people could use. That's kind of my story more or less.
My father, two girls, a husband, and Ruben Rael's developer.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Awesome. Yeah, being a girl dad's fun. I think Valentino
has kids too, but I don't know if he has
girls or not.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I've got one.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, I have three and two boys. So but yeah,
so the way we could talk about girl daddy, but
that's that's a whole different thing. So yeah, So first
of all, I'm just kind of curious because I love
the idea. Right, It's like, who's who's out there using rails?
(05:18):
How do you start figuring out what companies actually use rails.
I mean some of them are kind of I guess
well known, right there's you know, base camp or Heroku
or get hub. I think Airbnb was started on rails.
And then I also am aware that like companies like Twitter,
(05:39):
you know, they started out using rails but then kind
of migrated to I think it's a mixed stack. They
probably have rails in there somewhere still because it's hard
to get rid of a technology once you adopted. But
I know that a lot of their stuff went to
Skala and stuff like that, and so yeah, how do
you decide who's on the list and how do you
figure out who's using rails?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, so that was a challenge, challenging situation in the beginning.
So my first approach was.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
To kind of manually get as many as I could
on my own and then reach out to the community
and do some type of outsourcing or crowdsourcing and get
people to kind of sub meet there either companies that
they work for or their own projects or companies they know.
And that worked to a certain degree, but you know,
(06:31):
I got a couple of hundred companies that way. So
what I'm doing now is I'm trying to do some
scraping and looking through different websites and listings and things
that ultimately I think there's about seven hundred thousand website
built on rooven rails.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
So that's gonna be a challenging task. So I'll take
any any ideas or imput from the community.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Is there a way for people to submit Hey, we
use rails right, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Usually what I do right now is I periodically, I
you know, post a tweet or x and ask people
to to give me some ideas. I should have built,
um hm, something where people can submit on my on
the website, but I haven't.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Built that yet.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah, but so.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Far it's just really through Twitter.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They use rails at doc Simity, don't they, Valentino.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yeah, we do pretty heavily.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Medicine.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Okay, Yeah, I noticed that there's a number of medical
companies or startups that I use rails, at least a handful.
I've seen a pretty big startups. Yes, this reminds me of.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
I don't know if you know, but Andy Kroll has
recently like published using rails dot com. Yes, I do
like kind of how you how the layout of your
site works?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Though? Uh, where are you like.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Pulling information from that data sources as well, or uh.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I'm pulling in information from a lot of different sources. Yeah,
and I do know.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I mean he's one of the tan that just recently
popped up.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Right, I know there's so many now Yeah, yeah, I
guess where like where does this like? Uh, I guess
I'm trying. Like the design this is awesome. I wish
(09:02):
I had seen this, to be honest, like so many
times in my career, right, being able to filter it
by different things and tooling and things like that. Ah, Like,
how do you, like, how do you think about like
the consolidation of these different companies and.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
You know, maybe what are your plans for it? I guess, yeah,
that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
So I just recently noticed that there's a number of companies,
So I kind of like, I don't want to build
something that's already you know, doesn't have a utility or
you know a lot of people are doing the same thing.
So I think there is opportunity to build on top
of these database right, to build features that could be
(09:53):
useful for a community, like I mean, the lowest hanging
tree is just categories, right, But also I want to
know I don't know, even categories that are more outside
of the typical categories, like I'm thinking companies that are
(10:15):
more active hiring unior developers, you know, or companies that
are more active supporting open source. That type of categorizing
I think, uh, just given the the users kind of
options as to who they would want to support, right
if in or or another category could be uh, you know,
(10:38):
the substitutes for the rail substitutes or rule substitute for
such and such a products. But uh, there's I think
opportunity to create content on top of that content targeted
towards not necessarily developers, but product product people or or
(10:59):
busines people. Ah, just marketing the tools and the framework
in general.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
That's just one.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
But I you know, I have a list of ideas
that I could build that I could build on top
of the the the database.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Another thing that I one of the things that I
want that I like to do is kind of get
involved with the developers in a company. So one of
the features that I'm working on right now is h
adding the ability to for companies to list open source
(11:43):
that they're working on, so if and if they need
help with whatever open source. So but through that if
I'm a developer looking to connect with other companies, I
can go to the company see there if they have
some open source open source each I can you know,
start participating through that and maybe through that hopefully make
(12:04):
a connection with that.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
With the company. If that makes any sense. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
There's a lot of things that I feel like could
be built on top of just the pure debase.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
Yeah, you know, I love seeing that on the company view.
It would be really cool if you could like submit
like you know, a pull request right from the page
and say, hey, I'm I'm up.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
I'd like to update.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
The information here, like have a signing with GitHub kind
of thing so you can verify that they're like part
of that organization even, right. Yeah, Like it definitely like
feels like that's like what you could do. Like, ah, yeah,
I don't know, Like how do you That's the hard
(12:54):
part with like all of this stuff is like, you know,
it's just you, right, community, Like, you know, how how
do you get like the community involved in all of
these different sites that exist and guarded support?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Right? Like?
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Uh, where where do you find like the most like
people want to like help contribute to so far? Uh?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
You mean in my personal project or just in Enner
first start up on reels.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, you know where.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
So I haven't really, to be honest, the last couple
of few couple of months, I haven't been interacting. But
that's a good question. I can ask the community as
to where a direction they would like for this to go.
But and then you're asking in terms of like having
people ah contribute to this project or is that the question,
(13:58):
or or just what people would like in terms of features.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
I guess I mentioned in both, but I was more
like where people are are currently like interested in contributing
to add stuff like do you see uh, do you
see people are like you know, they reach out to
you about wanting to update specific things or it's a
pretty low volume at this point.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, to be honest, I haven't yet. I haven't really
lounged officially, so I haven't put it out out there.
But that is a good question. I haven't asked, I
haven't seen any I haven't had any requests. And also
the idea of maybe open sourcing this project sounds interesting, right,
(14:45):
so people can mhm, you know, contribute directly. That would
be a good idea. I would have to clean my
database it's a little embarrassing right now.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
That's that's a story of like more than half my code.
It's like, oh, there's a ton of junk in here.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, so that's but that's an interesting idea, and it's
another another way to gain experience, right managing this open
source for it would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah, I'm also curious. So you mentioned that you wanted
to know what companies were kind of local to you
that were using rails you know, maybe for a job
search or something. But you know, and that kind of
appeals to me. I'm curious also just from kind of
(15:45):
the broader view, because a lot of people that I
talked to are how do I put it there, they're
kind of looking for their next position or their next
you know whatever, their next job. And yeah, it's just
you know, I think something like that would really help.
(16:08):
But also with all the layoffs and everything else, do
you see the rails market shrinking or growing or do
you have a feeling about that?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, I mean I just know that, but you're about
eighteen months ago. I have recruiters hitting me up. You know,
I wouldn't normally make it through the whole interview, but
right now, you know, I'm trying to buy and things
of that. It's hard. I mean, in terms of the feeling,
it doesn't feel like there's openings, you know. Yeah, yeah,
(16:42):
so I don't know if it's a good time if
the openings are there, and you just have to directly
kind of get in tight to the company and see
if you can get in that way, or they just
flat out no openings or no opportunities. But in any case,
it's always better to to try out different fighters, right
(17:04):
and your.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, well, and it's it's also interesting because I think
there are companies that use rails that could use the help,
but because of the way the economy is sitting right now,
it's you know, it's it's just hard for them to
be able to afford or justify the additional headcount.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
It's not, hey, there's not work to be done. It's just,
you know, given the current state of things, we're not comfortable,
you know, making the commitment to pay another salary given
our you know, where we see finances going and where
we see the the economy going long term. Because yeah,
(17:48):
if you want to stay open, you kind of have
to plan ahead with your cash flow, and it's hard.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's just a matter of numbers, right,
it's math.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, I think to me that you know that the
economy together with AI, which I've been using, you know,
the last few months, more and more, I do think
it makes developers way more.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Effective, right way more.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I know for me, it's says a feature that I
could sometimes taken two days to do, I can do
it in half a day, you know. And that's me
being like super careful, you know, looking at everything and
trying to analyze everything and not really knowing my way around.
But I think that it's a fact to me that
(18:36):
some that you know, needed two or three developers, maybe
not one developer can do it, and that's just a reality.
But yeah, I think a good way for developers like
that our unemployee, I think a good alternative is building
(18:58):
your own products, right building.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm being this right you comment entrepreneurial?
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Yeah, So how did you build this thing? What? Like,
what's uh what's the stack? What did you go with?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
So Ruby and rails? That's what I've been doing for
a for a while. Fastest thing, you.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Know, are you using all the shiny new tools like
the all the solid stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
No, I haven't. I haven't even gotten into into that.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like there's so much, so much everything.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I feel like that's one thing that's missing that maybe
some magic contributor out there will contribute. But like, just
like a all the features of reels, like pick them apart,
look at all the lists, like you know, editors, like
you know, drop down selects, forms, like all the different
(19:59):
things that you can do with it. Just like that
you can just see better because I feel like the
guides are a great start, but like it's more granular
that I want, right, Like I want okay, Like I'm
working on email stuff, like what features do I have
available in rails?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
Right?
Speaker 5 (20:17):
And I feel like there's so many just for email, right,
Like it would be interesting to see a visualization of that.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Uh so you're talking about like features in action mailer
and then there's also the other one that reads the emails.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
Yeah, and even on a you know, a more scoped
level of like okay, like I have like a you know,
an active record model, Like what are all the features
that I can inject into this model?
Speaker 4 (20:47):
Right?
Speaker 5 (20:48):
Because I'm using active record as like a base class, right,
and like there's so many like DSL methods you could
use that are specific to that that would be nice
to just like kind of like the guides like have
a good like general overview of like associations and like
smaller pieces, right, but like, uh, I don't know, like
(21:11):
what about the more specific Uh you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, yeah, in different use cases.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You know, it's I think it's like, yeah, is it doubles,
so you know, it's it's that is sort with frameworks
like grails, right, that it's so good for you because
it gives you everything. But on the other hand, it's
to you know, gives you everything. So there's tones and
tones and tones of features and uh, aspectude that are
(21:42):
you know, it's hard to know everything.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
But I think that almost gets sold gets sold by AI. Right.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
AI is good at scrolling through everything, and then we
just verify that it's indeed what we need. You know,
I think that's AI and real it's it's a good parent.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Would I would say that that is kind of true.
It depends on what they're training it on. Right, So
like Action Mailbox was the other library I was trying
to think of, right where it effectively it goes and
it grabs the emails and then it essentially routes it
through something that's sort of like a controller, right, and
(22:29):
so then it does things with the emails, which I
think is really slick, right, And that's that's something that
I can think of a couple of use cases for.
But you know, I don't know if a lot of
people are using it, and so I don't know if
the code that they have fed into the AI large
(22:52):
language models to say, hey, this is a good you know,
a good example of how to do this, right, because
it has to train it a bunch of times, and
so if you ask it for action mailbox code, it
may not be great, right, But if you're looking at
some of the more common stuff like active record and
a lot of the more common use cases that people
(23:14):
put active record to, I would imagine that that's probably
a lot more commonly gonna come up and be handled
well by.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
You know, by.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
The large language models, right, because you're gonna you're gonna
have a zillion examples because everybody's using models. But even then,
like if there's some obscure feature that not a lot
of people use, even if it's a powerful one and
could do good things for your app, it may not
opt for it because it's been trained over and over
(23:49):
and over again on how people actually solve the problem,
and so yeah, I can see where it comes in
and is helpful, but I think I think, yeah, the
the less well used features your AI may not be
trained well enough to pick it up and give you
the option.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah. No, I agree.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I think you still need to be you know, knowledgeable,
but I think it's hard to keep all that overhead
in mind when your coding.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Wright's.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, so that's a good way to kind of like
I mean, AI that's well thinking of everything and drinking
it down and then verifying, right, we've verify it well.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, And I'm not saying that you're wrong to do it. However,
the AI tells you too if it works, because it
does save you time and effort. Right, you don't have
to go look up the API and make sure you
have all the arguments in the right order, and you
know whatever else, And they're they're a handful of common
things in rails, like I can never remember if it's
(24:56):
options for select from collection or options from collect for select,
and I always screw it up because I always guess
it wrong. Right, And so having the AI go Oh
I know what you doing. Yeah, that's that's kind of nice.
But yeah, you know, and so then yeah, sometimes it'll
give me a longer stimpet of code and I'll wind
(25:17):
up tweaking it because it's like, yeah, this is close,
but it's not exact. Yeah, and so yeah, So then
it saves me a bunch of time. And even if
there's a more elegant solution, it doesn't matter that I
don't know it, because I have something that works. I
can look at it and visually parse it and I
didn't have to spend two hours figuring out how to
do it the other way.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, speaking of AI, it makes me think about your
new startup on real site where you have like a
real AI category, and it makes me like imagine, like
I would love to be able to see like what
companies are using so reels, like not only just like
(26:02):
reels and AI specifically, but like, all right, is anybody
actually using action mailbox in a production app? Like how
are they using it? Like are they willing to disclose that?
Like just an itemized list?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Right?
Speaker 5 (26:14):
Like that would be super helpful, like not only for
like the reels community in general, right, Like but uh,
you know how how are people building stuff, right, like
exposing like the use cases, because like there's so many
like right, Like it seems like there are so many
that like also give talks at these conferences all the time,
(26:36):
and you'd.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Think like there it would there would.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Be you know, a way to expose that other than
just like publishing a conference talk.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, you know, one thousand.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, that's exactly why I kind of high you there
in the corner because I.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Haven't gotten in that direction. But you know that's a
completely different thing, you know, doing a little research and yeah,
but yeah, that's that's something I'm interesting too. And I'm
figuring out who's using it and how they're using it,
figuring out the companies but also, like you said, the
details as to how they're using it. Yeah, that's something
(27:14):
that I'll definitely work on. And I mean that's the
newest thing. I should probably be working.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
On it right now. That's a good apportunity for the content.
Speaker 5 (27:21):
I mean you can start like uh, you know, ingesting
the conference video talks and just like have ai you know, categorize.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Which company they work for and what they're working on.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
One one other thing that comes to mind that would
be interesting with this, and I know we're kind of
brainstorming this, but I mean, you know, you said your
pre launch and you know, these are all ideas, and
maybe we could talk about what the minimum viable product
looks like. But I keep hearing from people that rails
is dying, and you know, I I understand some of
(28:01):
the arguments that people make, but I still see a
lot of companies starting up on rails, and I also
see a lot of companies that have adopted rails or
that started on rails you know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty
years ago, that are doubling and tripling down on it.
And so I don't know that, and maybe maybe we
(28:23):
just need a better definition of what people mean by dying,
but it'd be interesting to see. Okay, if you start
a startup with rails, right, then you know, then it
gets listed in that way we can see and then
some of the other companies, right, they come in and
they say we started in you know, twenty twenty or
(28:45):
twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, right, and so
you can see how long they've been out there and
you know, running things on rails, and so that way
we kind of get a feel for Okay, yeah, there
were you know, a gazillion companies started up in two
thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, twenty ten, right,
And then you get into twenty sixteen and maybe they're
(29:07):
they're you know, half that many. Right, you get to
twenty twenty and you can see, oh, there's an uptick
here for whatever reason, or it'd be really fascinating just
to kind of see how that all comes out. And
then people can see, oh, okay, we've got you know,
we have a list of you know, one hundred startups
(29:27):
that started in twenty twenty four, right, and more getting
at it all the time. And you know, of the
one hundred and twenty of them are venture funded, right,
which means that they I was going to say they
have a better chance of making it, but that's not
necessarily true. But you know, so many are venture funded,
(29:49):
so many are kind of micro sas kind of tiny services,
so many of them are, right, And so then you
can get an idea of oh, okay, so this is
where this is where the action's at, and we can
see what the trend is. Right, we'd say, okay, we're
(30:09):
getting more companies in in you know, also in industries
right where which you're already doing. Right, we're seeing more
healthcare apps starting up, or we're seeing more education apps
starting up, or you know, hey, given the current political climate,
we're seeing a lot more political bent apps coming out,
(30:32):
or you know whatever. So anyway, I think that'd be
really really interesting just to kind of see what that
trend line looks like, because it's it's kind of hard
to know, but if you give people a way to
self report anyway.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
In the data aspect of feed is some that is
I'm fascinated by, you know, and the idea that we
can it can them way more grandl granular that how
we you know, we we uh process or or play
with the data, you know, in terms of like when
they started, how are they doing, you know, what type
(31:13):
of volume in terms of sales or revenue and things
like that, specific industries and things of that.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
To me, I find that very interesting.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And I also think that you could also influence potential
entrepreneurs right that are trying to build their own products.
We can kind of tailor the data and into content
and put it out there to you know, see if
people can make decisions based on the data.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yep, Yeah, I think a lot of it just comes
down to what questions are people going to ask of
a system like this, and then what data do you
need in order to answer them?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's a kicking, kicking and an egg problem situation, right.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah. I think if the community just fully adopted you know,
startups on rails or you know, something like it, and
you know, everybody just kind of commonly submitted to it
and kept it up to date, I think it would
be very interesting, just because I think we would be
(32:24):
getting decent data on that. And I don't know that
every company's going to be willing to tell you, hey,
we're using these gems or these features of rails, but
you know, the ones that are willing to share it,
you can at least give us some idea what's going on.
But as for hey, we've been around this long and
we're using rails, right, Or maybe we've been around this
(32:47):
long and we've been using rails and we had a
major rewrite or a significant chunk of our stuff was
kind of reworked at this point, right, that might be interesting.
But again, you know, even if they just put in
we started in two thousand and six, we've been using
rails the whole time. You know, wor company that's X
(33:09):
so many big, or maybe you go ask LinkedIn how
big is this company? Then right then you get an
idea of what we're looking at.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Yeah, that is definitely interesting. And I think what I
found over time was that you need more compelling features
or reasons for people to come back to the website,
both the users, right and the companies. So and that's
(33:40):
kind of why I get I get trapped. Okay, what
can I do to make it compelling, to make it
more appealing for people to want to participate, both companies
and users. So one of the things that I was
thinking of, you know, is perhaps using the company page
as a qut pot the engineering page that a lot
(34:02):
of websites have, right, Like you go to airbnbs like engineering,
you'll see blocks related to engineering and you see, like
when you talked about, like more detailed things about what
they've been doing. They post their open source you know, uh,
stuff that is related to ah to.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
The engineering community.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
And I think that might be a service that could
be offered to smaller companies, like you have the airbnbs
that have the resources to have these type of pages.
But this could be something that targets smaller companies that
you know, a place where they can post a data
(34:47):
or content related engineering to engineering.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, the challenging has been part has been that, like
how can we compel companies to to piece of paid
and through that also get users to want to busy.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
You can an innate problem.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
As I said before, Yeah, I mean to your point though,
like a lot of companies they want, right like exposure.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
They want other developers to know what they're working on,
what they're doing in the community, right like there this
despite what many people may say about like the you know,
hiring market for for any programming, but like real specifically
right like, uh, they still want that exposure. Like there's
(35:45):
gonna be a point where you know, hiring is hot again,
right Like it's it's goes in cycles, you know, like
there are always lulls and there's always highs like and uh,
you know as like any company that is like you
know tight on resources, which you know, from like a
(36:06):
developer standpoint, right like which just happens like eventually, like
once you're doing a certain size, you're like gonna have
this point where Okay, you've been developing this new thing
for so long and then it releases and you're like,
oh crap, like everybody's using it, and we need more
people to manage this thing that we've built, right Like,
(36:27):
I feel like it's just like a thing that happens,
and you want as a company to like get the
exposure to the people that you know could potentially.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Be working for, you know, the company. H And I
don't know.
Speaker 5 (36:41):
I feel like as a developer who has looked for
a job before, right Like, I've looked to see who's like,
you know, doing the conferences, who's like present in the community,
right Like, who's open sourcing stuff like? These are all
things that I think about personally, And it's all just
a matter of expose, sure for the company, right And
(37:01):
there's honestly a lot of great companies out there that
don't do that, right Uh. And is there a way
where that could process could just be a little easier,
right Uh? I think it's what you're getting at, uh.
And I think that's completely the case. Like making it
just like a uniform way where people can like you know,
(37:22):
publish numbers to some you know, public public place, I
feel like.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Uh is what what's needed really? Uh? We were still
lacking that in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yeah, but yeah, that's it, That's that's a direction, right.
But to me, I'm the type of personality that I
want everything, so yeah, I suffered with paralysis of analysis.
So oh that that's a that's a good feature, and
I end up wanting to build everything and then you
end up building building nothing. So but I think that's
(37:59):
a strategy for like an MVP, you know, going in
that direction, allowing companies to to build their own profile
and post their technical content.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah, that's something that all serves the thing you think about. Yep.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So I'm curious as we're kind of digging through this.
I think we've had a lot of ideas around what
we could do or what you could do with startups
on rails. But I'm a little curious, like what other
resources that are kind of like this would you like
to see for the Ruby or rails community, because it
(38:43):
seems like there are definitely opportunities out there for us
to provide something that allows rails developers to get information on,
or collaborate on, or you know whatever on other aspects
of the community.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yeah, so I think one that comes to mind right now,
and it's.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Not necessarily related to.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
These is more on the way of helping newcomers or
new developers navigate through what I call the last mile
of developing, the last mile of learning, right, that last
mile where it's like, Okay, you've learned, you've been through
(39:36):
all these book cooms or self learning. That last piece
of learning.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
That is going to give you the ability to be
ready job ready, right, which I think that content is
hard to find.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
One of the things that I was part of was
the Agency of Learning. A friend of mine, Dave Paola,
he uh started which is just pretty much get a
group of people together, a group of young developers and
a few senior developers, and what we did was uh
(40:12):
participate in open source. We helped, you know, contributed to
open source, but we did in a way that was
more structure in that we we we almost did it
like a job, right, So uh pick an issue, you know,
submit a proposal, and the proposal is going to be
(40:35):
not necessarily code, just like what are you It was
a strategy on how you're going to solve this issue.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
There's a code review that a community code review, and.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
You know where they picked, you know, go ad you
and ask you questions and whilst you have a pretty
solid proposal, you're going to you know, submita you know,
work on the issue and.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
And then submit and get a review.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
So I think that was very helpful in terms of
getting like almost almost professional experience.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Right.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I don't know if I haven't I haven't really worked
for a company, but I don't know if that's the
way it would work. But it felt like, Okay, this
is It feels like I can talk about something that
looks like a professional experience. So that was a way
that they've kind of visualized this issue or this problem
(41:28):
the last mile. But you know, I think there's something
there like helping people navigate through the last mile.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But I also know that, you know, the the the
state of the industry is not necessarily favorable for a
new developers. So I don't know if that's it's a
good timing for that.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
Mhmm.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
I like the idea of kind of the last mile. Right,
It's okay, you can build a rails application, but here's
the rest of the stuff. If you have to be
able to do or know how to be right that
they don't necessarily teach you or spend a lot of
time on.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Correct yeah, and a lot of these are more untangible,
you know, things that you got to wrestle, you know,
you got to wrestle with you know, the dynamics on
on your amount of year, you know your engine year,
amount of year. A lot of it is emotionally. You
get some feedback and I did I work so hard
on this, what do you mean? I still need to
do more. And it has to do with my references,
(42:29):
like I prefer this way. I know it works with
these the way I prefer things like that that are
not very tangible. Ah, that was helpful to.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Me, right, very cool. Well, I told you guys, I
have a hard stop coming up, so I'm going to
push us over to picks. This has been fun to
talk about. I mean, one other thing that I've been
looking at putting together actually is a directory of learning
resources for Ruby and rails, right, and so essentially it
(43:00):
would list and I've I've started on the codebase and
I've been I've been working on it for a while.
I just haven't launched it yet, but and I've based
it on our picks. So it's called rubypicks dot com.
But the idea is is yeah, so it's here, you know,
you can search podcasts or podcast episodes. You can search
YouTube videos, conference talks, you know, blog posts, documentation, right,
(43:27):
and it'll you tell it kind of what you're looking for, gems,
uh so ruby gems, and then it'll list out all
the resources out there, and then people can rate and
review them and things like that, so that the ones
that get more highly rated, you know. And we also
try and attach versions, right so that you know, you
(43:48):
can put in what version of rails or device or
whatever you're using. But yeah, then then it'll come back
and say, okay, these are some highly rated resources that
align with what you're doing. And so then you know,
maybe you get the walkthrough on how to set up
stripe or the walkthrough on how to whatever. And the
(44:09):
other thing is is that I would like to share
some of the search data on the back end that
says essentially, these are the most common searches that don't
have a lot of results, and that way people know, oh,
I could do a video on this, right, or hey,
I could write a blog post on this and just
(44:30):
kind of spur the community into taking action and providing
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
So oh that sounds like a good idea. Yeah, I
like that so people don't waste their time. And yeah,
it happened to me too that you wasted working on
material that might not be as relevant. But if you
know what's number one, umber two, number three, you know
that's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, let's go ahead and do pics. Valentino,
you want to start us off.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
Yeah, sure, So all my picks are AI related today,
probably as usual. But I've been the folks at hugging
Face are just like on fire lately, and I've been
experimenting there so much. I mean, they're just announcing stuff
(45:21):
like crazy. Yeah, I've been playing with They have transformers
dot js, which basically lets you run inference using the
onyx runtime of LM models in the browser using WASM,
and so you can download various models from hugging Face
and I perform the inference of various features like summarizing
(45:45):
or categorizing stuff for all kinds of different pipelines that
they provide.
Speaker 4 (45:51):
And you can just do it all in the browser.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
So if you have sensitive information you don't want like
pass to servers, and you want to do some stuff
in the browser, it works really well. I even got
it to do a rag in the browser, just fully
local in the browser doing embeddings and then searching it
(46:13):
and running a small model to do the generation. But
it works and it's just like crazy.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
So I'm excited to mess around with that more.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
So.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
That's transformers JS. They have a GitHub board and everything,
and the other one that they also released, I'm trying
to get the name of it, but they have a
so they have a leaderboards that they manage where they
run all the large language through different arenas and rankings,
(46:50):
and so they've open sourced the pipeline that they use
for running those valuations and have open source kind of
to try and garner support from the community to like
publish different open evaluation data sets and algorithms and things
like that, and it's just really awesome and well done.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
I think it's called light email.
Speaker 5 (47:23):
And then on top of that, on the evaluation side,
where if you're not familiar with the evaluations are just a
matter of like testing whether or not the outputs to
do a specific thing, and you can evaluate them in
a lot of different criteria. But they also published a
guide book which has like a huge just data bank
(47:43):
of different ways that you can evaluate lllms and so
LMS as a judge human evaluations. They have benchmarking and
it's just like a great like go to guide for
doing all this stuff.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Interesting, awesome.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Ask a question regarding your the first one that you pick.
What kind of machine are you using to run do model?
Are you running from your local machine.
Speaker 4 (48:15):
Or it's local machine? I have an M one MacBook.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
I have not tried it on a lesser machine, so
I am curious how well it performs on maybe you know,
a Chromebook or something like that.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
I haven't tested it.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Yeah, and one and and then what kind of are
RAM Do you have a big run for that? Because
I think it's it's it's rama pretty important resource for that.
Speaker 5 (48:46):
So they they do a combination blend of GPU and CPU. Okay, uh,
and so it's primarily like the GPU and CPU that
get the most hit out of it. Browsers do let
you kind of like download almost infinite amount of content
(49:07):
to the browsers cash, which is nice. But you know,
so it's more of like the storage is not necessarily
an issue because it'll store it just in the browser
as like a staged aspect for the for the model itself.
But yeah, that's a good question about memory.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (49:27):
I haven't done any benchmarks yet on on the memory consumption.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Wow, thank you cool.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, I'm I'm diving in. Are you done? Because I
can just roll into my picks otherwise.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Oh yeah, that was it.
Speaker 1 (49:48):
So I usually do a board gamekick pick first, so
I'll just throw one out there real quick. This is
one that I actually played on my phone in my
computer and not with actual physical piece. It's Star Realms.
I don't know if you all have played that, but
it's a card game and it's got a whole bunch
of different sets that go into it, which makes it fun.
(50:13):
But anyway, you can pick it up. You can play
against people on the internet, and yeah, it's a deck
building game, so you you know, you draft cards and
you play cards, and you you know, you try and
get good combinations of the cards that work together. Usually
it's by playing multiple cards are the same color, but
not always. So anyway, I'm gonna pick Star Realms. I
(50:38):
didn't look it up on board game Geek, but I
know that you can get physical cards, and I'm sure
that they have it on here and just let me
look it up. Yeah, they've got a twenty twenty fourteen
(51:05):
which is the the original version, and then you also
they have a twenty twenty one version that has extra
player decks and the play mat and stuff like that,
and then there are a whole bunch of expansions. There's
Gambit Colony Wars Frontiers. Anyway, the base game is rated
(51:27):
A weighted at one point ninety two. So, you know,
casual gamer, It's more complicated than you're kind of really
really really simple games, but it's it's definitely learnable for
most people who just want a casual game. So I
(51:47):
tell people that too is about where, you know, kind
of the casual game with enough complexity to make it interesting,
but not so much that you have to actually go
back to the rule book periodically to make sure that
you're doing it right. Anyway, So so yeah, so Star
Realms and then yeah, so I'm gonna do kind of
(52:13):
the shameless self promotion stuff. I'm also trying to find
a website for Star Realms because I know that you
can just play it online. You can get it on
Steam I think, and then there's the mobile app as well. Anyway,
so I've been talking to a lot of folks. I
(52:37):
haven't gone as deep as Valentino has with the AI stuff,
but I've been I've been getting into it a bunch,
and I recently had my contract end and so I
have a lot more time to start really diving in
and building out what I want to build. But a
(52:59):
lot of folks are interested learning it, and so what
I'm working on right now is actually building out a
handful of AI systems, mostly kind of the agentic ai
sort of things that we talked to Obi about. And
I'm going to be putting on a boot camp at
the beginning of next year and just walking people through
(53:20):
a lot of this stuff. You know, a lot of
the approaches to setting up these agents and then you know,
kind of fine tuning what they get. So keep an
eye out for that. I do have a domain that
I purchased for it, but I haven't set it up yet.
So I'm probably going to just start dropping ads into
(53:42):
the shows, you know, in lieu of some of the
ads that wind up getting put in that I get
complaints about, So just keep an eye out for that.
I think it was agentic ai boot camp dot com
or something like that. But anyway, so I'm doing that,
and then and then yeah, I'm I'm kind of overhauling
(54:07):
top end devs and you know, updating the members area
and things like that, and so you know, you'll you'll
have a new experience for the inside of the boot camp.
The way that I'm gonna run it though, is between
now and Black Friday, you'll you can get the Black
Friday deal. So I'm looking at running essentially weekly help sessions, right,
(54:36):
so you'll you'll get the curriculum for the boot camp
every week and I'm looking at three or four months.
We'll have weekly calls for six months. And the price
I'm looking at is thirty five hundred dollars. But if
you do Black Friday, you get two thousand dollars. I
also intend to do AI Summit in December or January,
(55:02):
and you will get a ticket to that. If you
sign up for the Black Fridays, you get you get
the discount, you get the AI Summit, and then you yeah,
like I said, you get the calls for six months,
and so yeah, that's that's the plan there. Did I
say that the discount was for two thousand dollars for
(55:24):
the Black Friday anyway, So that's that's that's what I'm
working on.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Now.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
I have to say that I also just did a
stripe connect. I had to stripe connect to top end
devs so that I can because there are other podcasts
that I want to start that are not programming podcasts,
and so I don't want to put them on top
end devs because then it's like, oh, there's a political
(55:52):
podcast on here. Hey that you know, Chuck's Church Stuffs
is on is on here, right, and so yeah, so
I'm looking gonna spin some of that off. And so
I was like, Okay, I want to do multi tenancy,
but then I, you know, I want them to kind
of run independently on the financial end of things, whether
it's sponsorships or people buying courses or anything like that.
(56:14):
So anyway, strike connect is pretty cool and it's not
I was worried it was gonna be super complicated to
set up, and it wasn't. So anyway, pretty happy with that.
So I'm gonna I'm gonna pick strike Connect as well.
All right, Gustavo, what are your picks?
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Thank you so for me in terms of you know,
outside of development, it's just children, right, So I'm gonna
pick Disney Princesses is my pig of the week.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
I spent the last three days in Disneyland with a
Disney Hotel.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Oh fun.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, it was good. It was good.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
We took our two daughters to I guess a make
cover experience where they give him the whole treatment, you know,
they you know, they received them as princesses. They you know,
do the whole you know, princesses, set up, change their
outfits and then they take him for pictures and the
whole time they're like blown away, they're exciting, they do,
(57:23):
you know, taking in the role of princesses. So that
was a great experience for us and for the kids.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
So that's my pick up the week Busney Princesses.
Speaker 1 (57:37):
Awesome. Yeah, it's funny because all of my wife and
my girls, they all have different princesses that they identify with.
And what's funny is is none of them picked the
same one.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
So that is yeah, that's no, that's good. That's good
because I know my two daughters sometimes they they want
to pick the same one and a little one.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
And I was like, no, you're not, you're all of
you can be all.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
Of Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (58:01):
For my wife, it's Aurora Sleeping Beauty, my oldest daughter
it was Cinderella. My middle daughter was Ariel, and my
youngest daughter daughter. Funny enough, you see all the little
girls that want to be Elsa. She wanted to be
on A. So anyway, good the one that didn't have
the magic powers or whatever. But anyway, yeah, very fun.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Yeah, I feel like there's a big marketing and business
lesson that could be learned through that. I think it's
the have the market corner, you know, do his name?
Speaker 1 (58:34):
Yeah they do? Yeah, good deal. If people want to
find you online, Gustavo, where do they find you? Or
if they want to hire you because you said you
were looking at on the market.
Speaker 2 (58:46):
Yeah, so Twitter, I'm usually that's where I interact the most.
G v G be a victor one one a zero.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
And uh or yeah that's pretty much eat right now.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
GV one one eight zero.
Speaker 2 (59:09):
Correct Gustavo Venezuela my first name for my first better
initials for my name, and then one one zero give.
Speaker 1 (59:18):
Me one one a zero awesome. Yeah, I just put
that into the YouTube and Facebook. Yeah, I'm looking to
if you're hiring Chuck at top ends dot com or
you email me. All right, let's go ahead and wrap
it up. Thanks for coming, Gustavo, thank you, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (59:39):
All right, until next time, folks max out
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