September 25, 2025 • 28 mins
Kevin Munoz gives his training plans away for free—and still closes 80% of sales! Find out how he does it in this episode of “Run a Profitable Gym.”
Today, host Mike Warkentin talks with Munoz about how he built $500+ average revenue per member (ARM) at his gym, Peak PT. Kevin shares the exact strategies that helped him land on Two-Brain's Top 10 ARM leaderboard, which runs from $502 to $854.
At Peak PT, Kevin uses Two-Brain's Prescriptive Model to sell, and he'll give prospective clients an entire training plan in free consultations to boost the "know-like-trust factor." He shows so much value that eight in 10 prospects sign up even though they could walk out with a free training plan.
There's more: Munoz explains why cutting low-value services boosted his revenue, how semi-private training fits into his business and why overdelivering during his on-ramp program makes conversions to recurring memberships simple.
He also details the community partnerships, referral systems and client events that keep new leads flowing into his gym without heavy reliance on paid ads.
Tune in for a step-by-step look at how one gym used systems and value to acquire better clients, increase retention and produce ARM north of $500 per month.
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0:52 - What drove his ARM increase?
8:05 - Where to find high-value clients
10:56 - High-conversion sales process
15:12 - Finding Two-Brain to now
25:16 - #1 tip to boost ARM
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Listen, Kevin, it's a volume game.
I think you should drop yourrates.
You got to go down to like 99bucks a month or start selling
PT for like$39.99.
What do you think of that?
I
SPEAKER_03 (00:11):
don't know that you'll make the ARM leaderboard
like that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
You made our ARM leaderboard?
SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
That's right.
We did.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
so maybe it isn't all about volume and cheap
rates.
Would you share your secretswith other gym owners on the
show today?
SPEAKER_03 (00:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
Ah, that's good.
This is Kevin Munoz.
He runs Peak PT in Maryland.
He made our average revenue permember per month leaderboard the
top 10 runs from 502 to 854dollars if you can believe that
these are mind-blowing numberskevin has agreed to tell you
exactly how peak pt postsworld-class industry leading arm
on run a profitable gym i'm yourhost mike work and please hit
(00:47):
subscribe wherever you'rewatching listening if you don't
mind hammer like on this videowe'll know that we're doing the
right stuff for you so kevinlet's dig in i gotta ask you
right off the top short answerwhat's the number one thing
that's allowed you to drive yourarm number up so high
SPEAKER_03 (00:59):
i think the biggest thing that we've implemented
here is uh a foundations coursethat over delivers that's been
the biggest kind of game changerfor us and has boosted our arn
the most
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
okay so foundations is that similar to an on-ramp
which many people know or isthat something along the same
lines
SPEAKER_03 (01:16):
yeah that's right so it's taught to us as an on-ramp
we've branded it as a base campwe call it base camp you know we
played at a mountain but wereally over deliver on the front
end on that program and uh Soconversion is really high from
that course.
And we've done it a bitdifferently.
(01:37):
And so we can go into that alittle bit later.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Yeah.
So listeners, OnRamp, ChrisCooper's often talked about this
as an excellent way to increaseARM revenue and retention.
OnRamp is something that getsclients ready to get into your
business and stay there for along time.
It's not a barrier to entry.
It is a barrier to exit.
We're going to dig into that alittle bit further.
But first, Kevin, what's the60-second summary of your jam?
What are you selling?
How many staff members have yougot?
(02:00):
Tell me about your business
SPEAKER_03 (02:01):
yeah absolutely we run a lean operation we got five
trainers three full-time and twopart-time uh we specialize in
one-on-one and semi-privatepersonal training we pivoted
while being with two brain wedid we did it all we did
one-on-one we did semi-privatewe did large group we did
whatever we could but now we'rejust one-on-one and semi-private
and uh we serve busyprofessionals and take the
(02:22):
thought out of fitness you comein here you know the plans made
for you and all you got to comein here is do it not there's not
much thought left into it busyprofessionals don't want to
think about reps or weight orwhatever we take care of that
for you
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
so you know your exact market right off the top
of your head and you knowexactly this problem that you're
trying to solve for them
SPEAKER_03 (02:40):
correct
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
yeah like I love talking to gym owners when I ask
that question they're able torattle it off off the top of
their head it's incrediblebecause it allows you to get
amazing amazing results so Ilove the thing you've got base
camp and you've got peak PT yougot the whole mountain thing I
love that you said you're doingPT and small group tell me just
what is how many people go intoa small group for you
SPEAKER_03 (03:01):
yes so semi-private is what we run and we have
one-on-one obviously one trainerto one client and we do
semi-private which is one to upto six uh clients
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
in one okay excellent they get a break on pt
rates but they're still muchhigher than group rates is that
the standard plan
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
all right
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
yeah so that's it that's an excellent one
listeners we got lots of greatresources out there about
semi-private and small grouptraining i'm going to put one of
them in the show notes for youso you can dig into this you
know exactly what we're talkingabout so aram how has it
improved over the years you saidyou made some changes with the
help of mentor what What wasyour ARM?
Do you have some ideas beforeand how did it change after?
SPEAKER_03 (03:33):
Yeah, our ARM priced in around$300 prior to two-brain
business.
I think, again, the biggestcontributing factor to ARM being
high was that foundations courseor the on-ramp that is taught
that we turned into a base camp.
We also cut out our lowestservice.
And back to kind of that introin charging$39.99, I mean, we're
(03:54):
always trying to offer morevalue.
And with that more value comesmore pricing, right?
And so A lot of things at TwoBrain helped us with that
on-ramp.
We cut out large group training.
We raised rates on our lowestpaying members.
We created a pricing binder thatis built on psychology and not
in a way that you can just say,hey, this is this month's
(04:17):
procession versus this month'sprocession and kind of break it
down and commoditize it.
So the pricing binder ispowerful.
The selling method that has beentaught to us has been powerful
as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
I'm going to dig into that sales method in just a
second, but I want to ask youfirst cutting your lowest tier
of membership was that a hardthing to do did you lose a lot
of people like was that apainful process how did it go
SPEAKER_03 (04:37):
yeah absolutely I mean it was our biggest our
biggest driver in terms ofheadcount so a lot of people
were into that program but wehad to close down the gym
basically entirely so manypeople would go into that class
it was the lowest paying andhighest demand service level so
the margin on it wasn't veryhigh people weren't getting the
(04:58):
best results and you know whenyou all this together, people
weren't getting the best resultsso they wouldn't stay very long.
People weren't paying verylittle and asking for a lot
because we're known as kind of apremium service.
And so at one point it justdidn't make sense to do it.
But when you have the majorityof members in that pocket and
you're going to go cut that,that's a tall ask, especially
(05:20):
for a business owner.
We look at numbers, we look athow many people we've got, we
look at how much we're bringingin, how much is going out.
You don't want to risk 30people.
And so again, it all goes backto value.
You know, we stacked upsemi-private and one-on-one to
be so strong that, you know,when you say, hey, we're cutting
this out, but we're offering youthis and we're phasing in
pricing, which is something thatwe worked with Peter on, you
(05:41):
know, it turned out for thebest.
You know, it's been our bestyear since.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
Yeah, it's all trending in the right direction.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
That's Peter Brosovan, your mentor?
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Absolutely.
That's our guy.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Yeah, he's a good guy.
So would it be equivalent, isthis analogy accurate, that you
kind of pruned the tree so itcould grow bigger and faster and
stronger?
SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
yeah so you've said you bounced back from that
trimming and now havingstrongest year ever
SPEAKER_03 (06:05):
correct
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
oh that's amazing and that's an interesting thing
because you just changed yourmethod instead you were
delivering a product and in youknow group small group pt you've
removed one of those deliverysystems but you're still using
the same you know you've justadjusted your model and what
you've done here has become moreefficient more lean more mean
and it's proving you're givingyou great results what kind of
(06:26):
fitness do you provide to peopleis it whatever the person needs
or do you have a specific youknow method that you're attached
to or anything like that what doyou
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
do so with with semi-private the way that we do
it we have we basically do threeblocks strength and power to
start obviously warm up andstrength and power to start then
in the middle you havehypertrophy in the end you have
some sort of conditioningwhether that be cardio whether
that be more built on on mass orhigh rep stuff but those are the
three blocks that you have andthat's semi-private that's built
(06:57):
out monthly and changed on afour-week mesocycle We take
pride in our programming.
It gives people a lot of resultsbecause you tackle that.
I've never had anybody come inhere trying to gain more fat and
lose muscle.
The science backs the method oftraining that we do.
With one-on-one, we try tofollow a GBC method.
Just supersetting, exercising,imposing muscle groups.
(07:19):
It's good for fat loss.
It's time effective.
That's really what our idealavatar wants.
To make sure that they're doingwhat they need to be doing in a
timely manner that gets themresults and that they can check
that box
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
yeah listeners if you're noticing what kevin's
saying he laid out his exactmethod in about 60 seconds he
laid out his exact model inabout 20 seconds and he laid out
his ideal client about 15seconds and gave me a two-minute
summary of exactly how hisoperation is running if you
don't have that on the top ofyour mind figure it out because
that is going to be the key thatallows you to solve problems for
your avatar by using your methodand your model to give to get
(07:53):
them results and results are oneof the most important things
when it comes to retentionbecause if clients aren't
getting results they're they'renot going to stay.
So Kevin, let's talk about thisbecause this is the kind of the
whole linchpin of this wholeshow.
Where do you find your highvalue clients and what does your
sales process look like?
Because you're moving, you'vegot a huge ARM.
People want to know how you'redoing it.
SPEAKER_03 (08:14):
Yeah, I think the key word is value.
You deliver a lot of value foryour clients and Two Brain
preaches a lot.
Referrals are the biggest thing.
If you get your ideal person,they probably hang out with
their ideal people
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
and
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
And you get them results, you show them the
value, you tend to get a lot ofreferral business.
So that's one of the biggestways to do it.
We've implemented this thingwhere we do a two-on-one
workout, right?
So if anybody shows interest,hey, you get a free session,
just bring them in and we'llpivot.
She'll kind of do your program,but we'll adjust it based on
(08:49):
their modifications or needs.
And that helps a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
The conversions there must be super high.
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, it all comes tothe delivery of the service.
Right.
(09:29):
conversation being involvedputting up polls and then we do
we invest heavily in communityevents so every single month we
have three to four events someare members only some are
non-members allowed and you knowwe kind of launch partnerships
that way we just launched ourrun club by partnering with road
(09:50):
runners so we do an event withthem or we do an event at a
winery or a brewery or you knowbasically taking a look at where
our people hang out and tryingto make fitness a lifestyle, not
just a workout.
That's how we do
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
it.
So listeners, Kevin laid out hissales funnels there and Two
Brain teaches four funnels.
Kevin talked about all of them.
You've got referrals, you've gotorganic social media, you've got
content, and you've got paidads.
Kevin's not doing, correct me ifI'm wrong, you're not doing paid
ads specifically, correct?
SPEAKER_03 (10:17):
We just started with Google ads, but that's it.
That was just this month here.
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Yeah, so just a little bit of that, but what
I'll call the paid ads funnelbefore that was these community
events where you're going outand doing stuff and putting on
events and partnering withpeople and you know Chris
Cooper's talked a lot aboutpartnerships and becoming a
local maven and connected toeverybody and they're like oh
you need PT I'm a hairstylistI'm talking to you go see Kevin
at Peak PT it's stuff like thatso you've got all these
different funnels set up andhe's got a calendar obviously of
(10:45):
a ton of events that allow himto connect with people start
conversations and eventuallymove people down the funnel into
his office where he can givethem prescription talk to me
about that part of your funnelbecause this is cool so you've
got people in your office theycome in they want to know about
what you can do and how you cansolve their problems how does
this go
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
yeah so the the way that we the kind of base camp
that we run is really based allon over delivery up front right
we give people a lot of value upfront whether they buy or they
don't buy so they come in theyget a scan it's the sweat free
intro right what we call it orthe nsi so they come in here
(11:23):
they pop on the in-body machinewe get all their metrics and
then that gives us a baselineour foundation and we say okay
This is where you're at.
We break down the sheet forthem.
And then we say, okay, this iswhere you're at.
Where do you want to be?
What does success look like foryou when you're joining a gym?
They'll explain that to you.
We'll write that down on theback of that in-body and put a
goal, X, Y, Z, P, D, K.
(11:44):
From there, we operate on asix-pillar system.
So we talk about everything thatyou can do will be under these
six pillars.
And that's exercise, that'scardio, that's non-exercise
activity, calories, thethermogenic effect of basically
what your macros are and thenhabits.
And then we'll build a plan forthem based on where they're at
(12:05):
and where they want to be.
Nowadays with ChatGPT and allthe, you know, everything that
there is out there, there's nolevel of programming that you
can give that's going to be, youknow, leaps and bounds ahead of
whatever that's going toproduce.
The hard part is doing it.
The hard part is holdingyourself accountable or somebody
holding you accountable to it.
So we'll build out that programwith that, you know,
(12:29):
individualized data from theirin-body and uh you know
basically say hey look you knowif you sign up one-on-one today
this is your plan i just builtyour plan here with you nothing
changes so if you don't want tosign up this is for you to keep
you take it with you you go doit right and people are like
well what the hell everywhereelse i go i just get sold you
(12:50):
know what i mean they just tryto sell me right i mean and
people have signed up one-on-oneand the plan that i wrote on
that piece of paper is the planthat i built out for them that
we do so do people get that plango away and never come back it's
happened but do you know ourclose rate is 80 plus 80 plus
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
wow
SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
probably because of that you know
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
Wow.
So that, so you literally on thespot, give them a complete
exercise plan that you couldabsolutely take into the gym.
If they sign up and just starton day one and you give that to
them for free with their goalsand their scan and everything,
all problems solved and say,here you go.
If you want to sign up, let'sstart right now.
If you don't, that plan is my,my gift to you.
You do that.
SPEAKER_03 (13:34):
Absolutely.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
How long does that take?
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
People always ask the question, oh, how long is it
going to take?
Because they think it's free.
And so they think it's just asell.
And so they're very hesitant.
So I say, hey, look, if wereally kind of get to the meat
and potatoes, we can get it donein 30.
But for me to build out a properplan and go back and forth with
you and talk about what youcurrently do, what you're
willing to commit to, X, Y, Z,takes about an hour.
(13:58):
When you're converting at 80%,an hour is well worth it.
And with the arm, it's wellworth it.
And it makes you feel good aboutselling.
You're sitting here, you'reYou're providing value.
People see the value and peoplesign up.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
You've laid out the prescriptive model from Turane
almost in, you know, to a T.
Like you're getting people in,taking a measurement, saying,
here's where you are.
Here's where you want to go.
This is your goal.
Here are the steps in between.
Here's the exact plan.
You are prescribing a solutionto their problem.
Was it scary to say to them,like, here's this, this is a
hyper valuable document to givethat to them and let them walk
out the door?
(14:33):
And if so, do some of them comeback eventually?
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
Absolutely.
We've had it.
many times and so that's one ofthe big things and we've had
people who don't sign up referpeople simply because we've
given so much value in advanceright and so kind of just took a
look at the people that i followon social media and stuff like
that i haven't bought anythingfrom them until i bought
everything from them so it'slike you know they give you so
(14:57):
much value so much value so muchvalue and you're like damn so
good so good so good so good andthen so when they drop something
paid you're like well they'vealready given me this for free
like what could be on the otherside inside of that paywall,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Was that how you found Two Brain?
SPEAKER_03 (15:12):
Two Brain, it was a referral.
Honestly, it was a referralbecause I was selling turf here
that I had no use for.
It was some owner in FrontRoyal, Virginia that I didn't
know he was a gym owner.
He just, hey, I want to buythis.
Okay, great, come grab it.
He came, grabbed it, locked hiskeys inside his damn minivan.
(15:32):
He had to sit here and talk tome.
And I had time to talk.
And so it was all, oh, whatoperation, XYZs, He's like, man,
Two Brain Business saved mybusiness.
Or this mentorship program, TwoBrain Business saved my
business.
I said, oh, what business do youhave?
And he said, oh, I own a gym.
And I said, oh, really?
He said, yeah, I own a CrossFitgym, whatever.
I was tied into it.
I had a job and I bought into itthinking it would be a passion
(15:53):
project.
It sucked all my money in timeout.
I signed up for Two Brain.
They saved my business.
I said, oh, yeah, that's cool.
I'm with this other company thatshall not be mentioned.
They're helping us out.
And he said, yeah, man, TwoBrain Business is the best thing
ever.
whatever that he tells me thisright and uh kind of forgot
(16:13):
about it completely and then umafter we were done with the
mentorship that we were in istarted looking at other places
and i remember this guy had saidtwo brains so i looked into two
brand and hopped on a call andand that was that was history
but i did it i hopped on thatcall because of this gym owner
that bought turf from me thatyou know him and i had no really
(16:34):
he bought the turf never saw himagain but you know he had
nothing but one Wow, that's an
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
interesting story, how you get looped in when a
guy's got his keys locked in hiscar.
SPEAKER_03 (16:55):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Yeah, you know, so how did that work when you
connected then?
Because you said you've workedwith other programs and so
forth.
You start working with a TwoBrain mentor.
What changes, how fast did thechanges happen?
And were you satisfied with theresults?
What happened?
SPEAKER_03 (17:07):
May have fundamentally changed our
business.
You know, what I liked about TwoBrain the most is it wasn't
about making a ton of money.
It wasn't about, you know, dothis to get this right away.
It was more, you know, look, youhave a, you love fitness, but
you got to run a business here.
And that means providing value.
And that means you got to, youknow, tighten all these bolts.
(17:27):
So you have a working backbone.
And then from there, you can getcreative with the things that
you do and the programs that youlaunch.
And, you know, sometimes aspeople who are passionate about
fitness, you, you know, know yougo really hard and you grow this
thing that perhaps is you knowmissing a proper backbone so
systems was the reason why wewent with uh with two brain
(17:48):
business and impact wasimmediate i mean talking about
that foundations course whathappens a lot you sit with
people and people don't want totell you that they don't know
what they're doing in the gymthey don't want to tell you that
they've never been to the gymbefore and you don't want to
tell you that they don't knowhow to squat so a lot of people
say yeah i'm comfortable i justcan't do it on my like i can't
get myself to do it on my own ijust need somebody to tell me
what to do, but I've done it allbefore, right?
(18:10):
They say, perfect.
So you can squat, bench, allthat.
And they're like, yeah,absolutely.
I just have lost the rhythm.
And then they'll get into asemi-private class and it's time
for them to do all the thingsthat they said that they do.
And they do it completely wrong.
They don't know how to bench,squat, deadlift.
So this base camp or foundationson ramp makes it so that people
(18:31):
stay longer because we knowexactly what they can't or
shouldn't do.
And so that's modified in thesemi-private and in advance and
then or the prescriptive modelresale after the base camp is
it's obvious they don't know howto do right all these things so
they need to go to one orthey've checked all the boxes
(18:53):
they just need structure sosemi-private is perfect right so
it's kind of self evident whatwhat they need and so when
you're like hey you need threetimes a week one-on-one they're
like yeah I do you know so andit's just the truth and it makes
you feel it doesn't make youfeel like a sales you know
you're just
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
yeah
SPEAKER_03 (19:12):
they have the they have the problem problem comes
very apparent or not and thenyou sell accordingly
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
does every client whether they're going into
semi-private or one-on-one gothrough base camp and his base
pack camp a one-on-one program
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
so that's the part of the over delivery with base
camp is and that's how we do itdifferent right um i think a lot
of gyms out there they start offwith a lower arm right they
start off maybe a membership isa hundred dollars or$200 a
month.
And so their on-ramp isone-on-one sessions and a lot,
but it also is priceaccordingly.
(19:46):
Your first month will be$800,but your next continuing will be
$200.
Okay, I'll eat this, I'll learna lot, and then I'll go into a
$200 retainer and get the value.
With us, it's like, all right,you're going to pay$5,000,
$6,000,$7,000,$8,000 a month,but this first month, and it's
(20:06):
only for one month, is almost52% off.
We offer six one-on-onesessions, three semi-privates,
and four large.
We run large group.
Everybody in the gym has thesecommunity-based large group
programs included in theirmembership.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
Yeah, on Saturdays and Sundays.
Since it's so broken up and wehave some people that never,
morning people never see eveningpeople and one-on-ones never
meet semi-privates type of deal.
These community workouts bringpeople together in that way.
So anyways, you get a bigsampler of everything that we
offer.
So you go through six one-on-onesessions first.
(20:47):
Then after you've learned allthat, you go into three
semi-privates.
And you're supposed to put alarge group at the end of each
week.
And so when we do it that way,people see the value.
And it's on the pricing binder.
It's stacked.
It says what everything is worthas if you were going to pay for
it right there.
And then you say, oh, you getall that.
(21:07):
but it's half off.
That's why we can only do it forthe first month, right?
But you've gotten one-on-one.
Not only have you gotten extremevalue up front, it's a$500
package, so it's notinexpensive, right?
But it's less expensive than ifyou were to get six one-on-one
sessions only, right?
So you get these six one-on-onesessions, the three
(21:29):
semi-private, the four largegroup.
You get to try everything thatwe offer.
And then from there, the resalebecomes...
much easier as well, right?
We don't have to tell you whatsemi-private is like.
You don't have to go intosemi-private inexperienced,
right?
And after learning, you know, weget to know you and you get to
know us one-on-one, thatsemi-private is already tailored
(21:51):
to you.
So the way that we dosemi-private, you know, people's
modifications, adjustments,weights, all that is done in
advance for them on a board whenthey come in.
So there is no thought.
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
So you've got a huge value stack up front and you get
to show them over this period,all the stuff in your gym, solve
their problems.
And then they've got, becauseit's not underpriced, right?
They've got a sunk cost involvedin this where they've got a
complete tailored coaching planin hand.
They've got this period of likesix one-on-ones, all this other
stuff you're doing, and they'vepaid a decent price to get it.
(22:24):
Now they're thinking, oh, I'mgonna, I'm invested.
I have a coach who knows me.
I've got this whole thing.
What is your conversion fromthat Basecamp program to
recurring membership?
SPEAKER_03 (22:34):
Really high.
I mean, we include that.
We So you're essentially
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
for if you're reducing, you know, you could
charge more for that initialprogram if you wanted to, but by
doing that, you're gettingpeople at a good rate to test
it.
And then you've got this entireperiod to educate them and show
how great you are coaching andsolving problems.
And then you're converting themto your recurring membership at
a huge, huge rate, like 80% orbetter.
I mean, that, that to me islike, that's a great way to do
it.
That's the secret sauce.
SPEAKER_03 (23:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think one of the thingsthat helps a lot is that you get
a lot of buy-in from your staffbecause it is, you know, it's a
four-week sale that you'regetting paid to do, right?
Where a lot of gyms are like,hey, you know, take this free
intro session.
And if you don't have a salesteam and your trainers are doing
(23:31):
the selling, right?
Hey, take this.
You have an intro, likepossibility, maybe you make
commission, maybe you don't,whatever.
but here the way that we do itwe've sold them right and
they're going to get paid forsix sessions and if they go into
their semi-private possibly ninesessions to basically show the
value that we offer here andthen to get them as a success
client and you know if we reallytalk about in depth about our
(23:53):
business we have success coachesand we have a we're a hybrid
business so we operate online alot and so kind of everything
that you need is serviced byyour success coach and that
coach is the person that runsyou through Basecamp so you go
through Basecamp with with thiscoach, they know you, they know
your goals, they know a lotabout you, they know what's
important to you, and they makesure that your semi-private
(24:16):
experience, if you go intosemi-private, is as private as
possible, because they've gotall the notes on you, they know
what you're doing, and so it's,you get a lot of buy-in, you
don't feel like a salesman, youjust are helping somebody with
their issue, you guys kinda geta feel-out period to see what
would be the best route to take,and then you guys both take that
(24:36):
route.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
Listeners, these systems are clearly laid out.
Again, every time I've askedKevin a question, he's been able
to lay out exactly the answerreally quickly with like literal
chat GPT bullet points here.
Like this is Kevin GPT.
Like if you don't have theanswers for this stuff and
someone says, how do you sell?
And you're like, well, I kindof, you need to get these
systems in place.
Now you could listen to thispodcast and figure out exactly
(24:59):
what you need to do.
Easier plan, book a call in theshow notes, and you can get a
mentor who will show you plugand play systems and guide you
through building this stuff outat warp speed.
You could definitely do that i'dencourage you to take one of
those two paths because if youdon't have systems like this
you're not going to reachkevin's level which is
world-class elite numbers kevinlet's send listeners out the
door with one tip if someone'sout there and say their arm is
(25:20):
like i don't know it's like 100bucks or even like 150 or
something like that because minewas like 123 back in the day
what is a tip that you wouldgive them like a like a baby
step one that they could take atthe end of the show to start
moving that number up even alittle bit
SPEAKER_03 (25:35):
I would say break down the services that you offer
into a dollar amount and see ifyou're really providing that
amount in value, right?
So if you say, hey, look, I'mcoaching one-on-one sessions and
large group sessions,semi-private sessions, and my
(25:56):
ARM is 150 bucks, right?
And then you break down eachsession and how much value is
each session is worth.
And you'll probably find thatyou're way ahead of that.
And you're just scared to chargethat and one of the big parts
with two brands is that you haveto be very real right and if
you're not offering that valuethen you got some work to do to
make sure that you are offeringthat value and if you're
offering more than that valueand you have to be comfortable
(26:17):
increasing that price and sayinghey this is what the value of
our business is worth ourservice is worth and for the
sake of over delivery to youguys we have to you know
increase prices right so breakdown your services in value
based on what you charge and theservices that you offer and some
that up and see if that alignswith your current pricing.
(26:38):
Sometimes pricing is just like,yeah,$250 sounds good.
$199 sounds great.
So really try to figure out whatit is that your service is worth
and then feel comfortableincreasing those prices if you
land at a higher mark.
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
That is great advice.
A rate increase is needed bymany gyms.
Almost all of them areundercharging and there is an
exact playbook to do it to whereit has a spreadsheet, a rollout
plan and everything done foryou.
It's like plug the numbers in.
Here's what I charging here'swhat I should be charging here's
how I make sure that value iscommunicated to the consumer
here's how I don't lose all mymembers one of our mentors has
(27:13):
done I think it's like I want tosay it's about a hundred rate
increases or something like thatnot one of those gyms lost all
their clients when they do itthe right way and I'm telling
you go circling back to theintro when I told Kevin he
should be charging$39.99 for PTyour service is worth more than
that and if you're scared tocharge more than that you need a
book call via link in the shownotes and we'll talk to you
about it Kevin thank you so muchthis was one of the most direct
(27:35):
succinct conversations Thank youfor laying it out in detail.
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:40):
My pleasure.
Thanks a lot, Mike.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
That was Kevin Munoz.
This is Run a Profitable Gym.
Thank you so much for watchingor listening.
Please subscribe for more showsjust like this.
And now, here's Two Brainfounder Chris Cooper with a
final message.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
Hey, it's Two Brain founder Chris Cooper with a
quick note.
We created the Gym Owners UnitedFacebook group to help you run a
profitable gym.
Thousands of gym owners justlike you have already joined.
In the group, we share soundadvice about the business of
fitness every day.
I answer questions, I run freewebinars, and I give away all
kinds of great resources to helpyou grow your gym.
(28:13):
I'd love to have you in thatgroup.
It's Gym Owners United onFacebook or go to
gymownersunited.com to join.
Do it today.
Listen, Kevin, it's a volume game.
I think you should drop yourrates.
You got to go down to like 99bucks a month or start selling
PT for like$39.99.
What do you think of that?
I
SPEAKER_03 (00:11):
don't know that you'll make the ARM leaderboard
like that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
You made our ARM leaderboard?
SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
That's right.
We did.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
so maybe it isn't all about volume and cheap
rates.
Would you share your secretswith other gym owners on the
show today?
SPEAKER_03 (00:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
Ah, that's good.
This is Kevin Munoz.
He runs Peak PT in Maryland.
He made our average revenue permember per month leaderboard the
top 10 runs from 502 to 854dollars if you can believe that
these are mind-blowing numberskevin has agreed to tell you
exactly how peak pt postsworld-class industry leading arm
on run a profitable gym i'm yourhost mike work and please hit
(00:47):
subscribe wherever you'rewatching listening if you don't
mind hammer like on this videowe'll know that we're doing the
right stuff for you so kevinlet's dig in i gotta ask you
right off the top short answerwhat's the number one thing
that's allowed you to drive yourarm number up so high
SPEAKER_03 (00:59):
i think the biggest thing that we've implemented
here is uh a foundations coursethat over delivers that's been
the biggest kind of game changerfor us and has boosted our arn
the most
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
okay so foundations is that similar to an on-ramp
which many people know or isthat something along the same
lines
SPEAKER_03 (01:16):
yeah that's right so it's taught to us as an on-ramp
we've branded it as a base campwe call it base camp you know we
played at a mountain but wereally over deliver on the front
end on that program and uh Soconversion is really high from
that course.
And we've done it a bitdifferently.
(01:37):
And so we can go into that alittle bit later.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
Yeah.
So listeners, OnRamp, ChrisCooper's often talked about this
as an excellent way to increaseARM revenue and retention.
OnRamp is something that getsclients ready to get into your
business and stay there for along time.
It's not a barrier to entry.
It is a barrier to exit.
We're going to dig into that alittle bit further.
But first, Kevin, what's the60-second summary of your jam?
What are you selling?
How many staff members have yougot?
(02:00):
Tell me about your business
SPEAKER_03 (02:01):
yeah absolutely we run a lean operation we got five
trainers three full-time and twopart-time uh we specialize in
one-on-one and semi-privatepersonal training we pivoted
while being with two brain wedid we did it all we did
one-on-one we did semi-privatewe did large group we did
whatever we could but now we'rejust one-on-one and semi-private
and uh we serve busyprofessionals and take the
(02:22):
thought out of fitness you comein here you know the plans made
for you and all you got to comein here is do it not there's not
much thought left into it busyprofessionals don't want to
think about reps or weight orwhatever we take care of that
for you
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
so you know your exact market right off the top
of your head and you knowexactly this problem that you're
trying to solve for them
SPEAKER_03 (02:40):
correct
SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
yeah like I love talking to gym owners when I ask
that question they're able torattle it off off the top of
their head it's incrediblebecause it allows you to get
amazing amazing results so Ilove the thing you've got base
camp and you've got peak PT yougot the whole mountain thing I
love that you said you're doingPT and small group tell me just
what is how many people go intoa small group for you
SPEAKER_03 (03:01):
yes so semi-private is what we run and we have
one-on-one obviously one trainerto one client and we do
semi-private which is one to upto six uh clients
SPEAKER_01 (03:09):
in one okay excellent they get a break on pt
rates but they're still muchhigher than group rates is that
the standard plan
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
all right
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
yeah so that's it that's an excellent one
listeners we got lots of greatresources out there about
semi-private and small grouptraining i'm going to put one of
them in the show notes for youso you can dig into this you
know exactly what we're talkingabout so aram how has it
improved over the years you saidyou made some changes with the
help of mentor what What wasyour ARM?
Do you have some ideas beforeand how did it change after?
SPEAKER_03 (03:33):
Yeah, our ARM priced in around$300 prior to two-brain
business.
I think, again, the biggestcontributing factor to ARM being
high was that foundations courseor the on-ramp that is taught
that we turned into a base camp.
We also cut out our lowestservice.
And back to kind of that introin charging$39.99, I mean, we're
(03:54):
always trying to offer morevalue.
And with that more value comesmore pricing, right?
And so A lot of things at TwoBrain helped us with that
on-ramp.
We cut out large group training.
We raised rates on our lowestpaying members.
We created a pricing binder thatis built on psychology and not
in a way that you can just say,hey, this is this month's
(04:17):
procession versus this month'sprocession and kind of break it
down and commoditize it.
So the pricing binder ispowerful.
The selling method that has beentaught to us has been powerful
as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
I'm going to dig into that sales method in just a
second, but I want to ask youfirst cutting your lowest tier
of membership was that a hardthing to do did you lose a lot
of people like was that apainful process how did it go
SPEAKER_03 (04:37):
yeah absolutely I mean it was our biggest our
biggest driver in terms ofheadcount so a lot of people
were into that program but wehad to close down the gym
basically entirely so manypeople would go into that class
it was the lowest paying andhighest demand service level so
the margin on it wasn't veryhigh people weren't getting the
(04:58):
best results and you know whenyou all this together, people
weren't getting the best resultsso they wouldn't stay very long.
People weren't paying verylittle and asking for a lot
because we're known as kind of apremium service.
And so at one point it justdidn't make sense to do it.
But when you have the majorityof members in that pocket and
you're going to go cut that,that's a tall ask, especially
(05:20):
for a business owner.
We look at numbers, we look athow many people we've got, we
look at how much we're bringingin, how much is going out.
You don't want to risk 30people.
And so again, it all goes backto value.
You know, we stacked upsemi-private and one-on-one to
be so strong that, you know,when you say, hey, we're cutting
this out, but we're offering youthis and we're phasing in
pricing, which is something thatwe worked with Peter on, you
(05:41):
know, it turned out for thebest.
You know, it's been our bestyear since.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
Yeah, it's all trending in the right direction.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
That's Peter Brosovan, your mentor?
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Absolutely.
That's our guy.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Yeah, he's a good guy.
So would it be equivalent, isthis analogy accurate, that you
kind of pruned the tree so itcould grow bigger and faster and
stronger?
SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
yeah so you've said you bounced back from that
trimming and now havingstrongest year ever
SPEAKER_03 (06:05):
correct
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
oh that's amazing and that's an interesting thing
because you just changed yourmethod instead you were
delivering a product and in youknow group small group pt you've
removed one of those deliverysystems but you're still using
the same you know you've justadjusted your model and what
you've done here has become moreefficient more lean more mean
and it's proving you're givingyou great results what kind of
(06:26):
fitness do you provide to peopleis it whatever the person needs
or do you have a specific youknow method that you're attached
to or anything like that what doyou
SPEAKER_03 (06:34):
do so with with semi-private the way that we do
it we have we basically do threeblocks strength and power to
start obviously warm up andstrength and power to start then
in the middle you havehypertrophy in the end you have
some sort of conditioningwhether that be cardio whether
that be more built on on mass orhigh rep stuff but those are the
three blocks that you have andthat's semi-private that's built
(06:57):
out monthly and changed on afour-week mesocycle We take
pride in our programming.
It gives people a lot of resultsbecause you tackle that.
I've never had anybody come inhere trying to gain more fat and
lose muscle.
The science backs the method oftraining that we do.
With one-on-one, we try tofollow a GBC method.
Just supersetting, exercising,imposing muscle groups.
(07:19):
It's good for fat loss.
It's time effective.
That's really what our idealavatar wants.
To make sure that they're doingwhat they need to be doing in a
timely manner that gets themresults and that they can check
that box
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
yeah listeners if you're noticing what kevin's
saying he laid out his exactmethod in about 60 seconds he
laid out his exact model inabout 20 seconds and he laid out
his ideal client about 15seconds and gave me a two-minute
summary of exactly how hisoperation is running if you
don't have that on the top ofyour mind figure it out because
that is going to be the key thatallows you to solve problems for
your avatar by using your methodand your model to give to get
(07:53):
them results and results are oneof the most important things
when it comes to retentionbecause if clients aren't
getting results they're they'renot going to stay.
So Kevin, let's talk about thisbecause this is the kind of the
whole linchpin of this wholeshow.
Where do you find your highvalue clients and what does your
sales process look like?
Because you're moving, you'vegot a huge ARM.
People want to know how you'redoing it.
SPEAKER_03 (08:14):
Yeah, I think the key word is value.
You deliver a lot of value foryour clients and Two Brain
preaches a lot.
Referrals are the biggest thing.
If you get your ideal person,they probably hang out with
their ideal people
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
and
SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
And you get them results, you show them the
value, you tend to get a lot ofreferral business.
So that's one of the biggestways to do it.
We've implemented this thingwhere we do a two-on-one
workout, right?
So if anybody shows interest,hey, you get a free session,
just bring them in and we'llpivot.
She'll kind of do your program,but we'll adjust it based on
(08:49):
their modifications or needs.
And that helps a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
The conversions there must be super high.
SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, it all comes tothe delivery of the service.
Right.
(09:29):
conversation being involvedputting up polls and then we do
we invest heavily in communityevents so every single month we
have three to four events someare members only some are
non-members allowed and you knowwe kind of launch partnerships
that way we just launched ourrun club by partnering with road
(09:50):
runners so we do an event withthem or we do an event at a
winery or a brewery or you knowbasically taking a look at where
our people hang out and tryingto make fitness a lifestyle, not
just a workout.
That's how we do
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
it.
So listeners, Kevin laid out hissales funnels there and Two
Brain teaches four funnels.
Kevin talked about all of them.
You've got referrals, you've gotorganic social media, you've got
content, and you've got paidads.
Kevin's not doing, correct me ifI'm wrong, you're not doing paid
ads specifically, correct?
SPEAKER_03 (10:17):
We just started with Google ads, but that's it.
That was just this month here.
SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Yeah, so just a little bit of that, but what
I'll call the paid ads funnelbefore that was these community
events where you're going outand doing stuff and putting on
events and partnering withpeople and you know Chris
Cooper's talked a lot aboutpartnerships and becoming a
local maven and connected toeverybody and they're like oh
you need PT I'm a hairstylistI'm talking to you go see Kevin
at Peak PT it's stuff like thatso you've got all these
different funnels set up andhe's got a calendar obviously of
(10:45):
a ton of events that allow himto connect with people start
conversations and eventuallymove people down the funnel into
his office where he can givethem prescription talk to me
about that part of your funnelbecause this is cool so you've
got people in your office theycome in they want to know about
what you can do and how you cansolve their problems how does
this go
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
yeah so the the way that we the kind of base camp
that we run is really based allon over delivery up front right
we give people a lot of value upfront whether they buy or they
don't buy so they come in theyget a scan it's the sweat free
intro right what we call it orthe nsi so they come in here
(11:23):
they pop on the in-body machinewe get all their metrics and
then that gives us a baselineour foundation and we say okay
This is where you're at.
We break down the sheet forthem.
And then we say, okay, this iswhere you're at.
Where do you want to be?
What does success look like foryou when you're joining a gym?
They'll explain that to you.
We'll write that down on theback of that in-body and put a
goal, X, Y, Z, P, D, K.
(11:44):
From there, we operate on asix-pillar system.
So we talk about everything thatyou can do will be under these
six pillars.
And that's exercise, that'scardio, that's non-exercise
activity, calories, thethermogenic effect of basically
what your macros are and thenhabits.
And then we'll build a plan forthem based on where they're at
(12:05):
and where they want to be.
Nowadays with ChatGPT and allthe, you know, everything that
there is out there, there's nolevel of programming that you
can give that's going to be, youknow, leaps and bounds ahead of
whatever that's going toproduce.
The hard part is doing it.
The hard part is holdingyourself accountable or somebody
holding you accountable to it.
So we'll build out that programwith that, you know,
(12:29):
individualized data from theirin-body and uh you know
basically say hey look you knowif you sign up one-on-one today
this is your plan i just builtyour plan here with you nothing
changes so if you don't want tosign up this is for you to keep
you take it with you you go doit right and people are like
well what the hell everywhereelse i go i just get sold you
(12:50):
know what i mean they just tryto sell me right i mean and
people have signed up one-on-oneand the plan that i wrote on
that piece of paper is the planthat i built out for them that
we do so do people get that plango away and never come back it's
happened but do you know ourclose rate is 80 plus 80 plus
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
wow
SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
probably because of that you know
SPEAKER_01 (13:14):
Wow.
So that, so you literally on thespot, give them a complete
exercise plan that you couldabsolutely take into the gym.
If they sign up and just starton day one and you give that to
them for free with their goalsand their scan and everything,
all problems solved and say,here you go.
If you want to sign up, let'sstart right now.
If you don't, that plan is my,my gift to you.
You do that.
SPEAKER_03 (13:34):
Absolutely.
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
How long does that take?
SPEAKER_03 (13:38):
People always ask the question, oh, how long is it
going to take?
Because they think it's free.
And so they think it's just asell.
And so they're very hesitant.
So I say, hey, look, if wereally kind of get to the meat
and potatoes, we can get it donein 30.
But for me to build out a properplan and go back and forth with
you and talk about what youcurrently do, what you're
willing to commit to, X, Y, Z,takes about an hour.
(13:58):
When you're converting at 80%,an hour is well worth it.
And with the arm, it's wellworth it.
And it makes you feel good aboutselling.
You're sitting here, you'reYou're providing value.
People see the value and peoplesign up.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
You've laid out the prescriptive model from Turane
almost in, you know, to a T.
Like you're getting people in,taking a measurement, saying,
here's where you are.
Here's where you want to go.
This is your goal.
Here are the steps in between.
Here's the exact plan.
You are prescribing a solutionto their problem.
Was it scary to say to them,like, here's this, this is a
hyper valuable document to givethat to them and let them walk
out the door?
(14:33):
And if so, do some of them comeback eventually?
SPEAKER_03 (14:35):
Absolutely.
We've had it.
many times and so that's one ofthe big things and we've had
people who don't sign up referpeople simply because we've
given so much value in advanceright and so kind of just took a
look at the people that i followon social media and stuff like
that i haven't bought anythingfrom them until i bought
everything from them so it'slike you know they give you so
(14:57):
much value so much value so muchvalue and you're like damn so
good so good so good so good andthen so when they drop something
paid you're like well they'vealready given me this for free
like what could be on the otherside inside of that paywall,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:09):
Was that how you found Two Brain?
SPEAKER_03 (15:12):
Two Brain, it was a referral.
Honestly, it was a referralbecause I was selling turf here
that I had no use for.
It was some owner in FrontRoyal, Virginia that I didn't
know he was a gym owner.
He just, hey, I want to buythis.
Okay, great, come grab it.
He came, grabbed it, locked hiskeys inside his damn minivan.
(15:32):
He had to sit here and talk tome.
And I had time to talk.
And so it was all, oh, whatoperation, XYZs, He's like, man,
Two Brain Business saved mybusiness.
Or this mentorship program, TwoBrain Business saved my
business.
I said, oh, what business do youhave?
And he said, oh, I own a gym.
And I said, oh, really?
He said, yeah, I own a CrossFitgym, whatever.
I was tied into it.
I had a job and I bought into itthinking it would be a passion
(15:53):
project.
It sucked all my money in timeout.
I signed up for Two Brain.
They saved my business.
I said, oh, yeah, that's cool.
I'm with this other company thatshall not be mentioned.
They're helping us out.
And he said, yeah, man, TwoBrain Business is the best thing
ever.
whatever that he tells me thisright and uh kind of forgot
(16:13):
about it completely and then umafter we were done with the
mentorship that we were in istarted looking at other places
and i remember this guy had saidtwo brains so i looked into two
brand and hopped on a call andand that was that was history
but i did it i hopped on thatcall because of this gym owner
that bought turf from me thatyou know him and i had no really
(16:34):
he bought the turf never saw himagain but you know he had
nothing but one Wow, that's an
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
interesting story, how you get looped in when a
guy's got his keys locked in hiscar.
SPEAKER_03 (16:55):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:56):
Yeah, you know, so how did that work when you
connected then?
Because you said you've workedwith other programs and so
forth.
You start working with a TwoBrain mentor.
What changes, how fast did thechanges happen?
And were you satisfied with theresults?
What happened?
SPEAKER_03 (17:07):
May have fundamentally changed our
business.
You know, what I liked about TwoBrain the most is it wasn't
about making a ton of money.
It wasn't about, you know, dothis to get this right away.
It was more, you know, look, youhave a, you love fitness, but
you got to run a business here.
And that means providing value.
And that means you got to, youknow, tighten all these bolts.
(17:27):
So you have a working backbone.
And then from there, you can getcreative with the things that
you do and the programs that youlaunch.
And, you know, sometimes aspeople who are passionate about
fitness, you, you know, know yougo really hard and you grow this
thing that perhaps is you knowmissing a proper backbone so
systems was the reason why wewent with uh with two brain
(17:48):
business and impact wasimmediate i mean talking about
that foundations course whathappens a lot you sit with
people and people don't want totell you that they don't know
what they're doing in the gymthey don't want to tell you that
they've never been to the gymbefore and you don't want to
tell you that they don't knowhow to squat so a lot of people
say yeah i'm comfortable i justcan't do it on my like i can't
get myself to do it on my own ijust need somebody to tell me
what to do, but I've done it allbefore, right?
(18:10):
They say, perfect.
So you can squat, bench, allthat.
And they're like, yeah,absolutely.
I just have lost the rhythm.
And then they'll get into asemi-private class and it's time
for them to do all the thingsthat they said that they do.
And they do it completely wrong.
They don't know how to bench,squat, deadlift.
So this base camp or foundationson ramp makes it so that people
(18:31):
stay longer because we knowexactly what they can't or
shouldn't do.
And so that's modified in thesemi-private and in advance and
then or the prescriptive modelresale after the base camp is
it's obvious they don't know howto do right all these things so
they need to go to one orthey've checked all the boxes
(18:53):
they just need structure sosemi-private is perfect right so
it's kind of self evident whatwhat they need and so when
you're like hey you need threetimes a week one-on-one they're
like yeah I do you know so andit's just the truth and it makes
you feel it doesn't make youfeel like a sales you know
you're just
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
yeah
SPEAKER_03 (19:12):
they have the they have the problem problem comes
very apparent or not and thenyou sell accordingly
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
does every client whether they're going into
semi-private or one-on-one gothrough base camp and his base
pack camp a one-on-one program
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
so that's the part of the over delivery with base
camp is and that's how we do itdifferent right um i think a lot
of gyms out there they start offwith a lower arm right they
start off maybe a membership isa hundred dollars or$200 a
month.
And so their on-ramp isone-on-one sessions and a lot,
but it also is priceaccordingly.
(19:46):
Your first month will be$800,but your next continuing will be
$200.
Okay, I'll eat this, I'll learna lot, and then I'll go into a
$200 retainer and get the value.
With us, it's like, all right,you're going to pay$5,000,
$6,000,$7,000,$8,000 a month,but this first month, and it's
(20:06):
only for one month, is almost52% off.
We offer six one-on-onesessions, three semi-privates,
and four large.
We run large group.
Everybody in the gym has thesecommunity-based large group
programs included in theirmembership.
SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
Really?
SPEAKER_03 (20:26):
Yeah, on Saturdays and Sundays.
Since it's so broken up and wehave some people that never,
morning people never see eveningpeople and one-on-ones never
meet semi-privates type of deal.
These community workouts bringpeople together in that way.
So anyways, you get a bigsampler of everything that we
offer.
So you go through six one-on-onesessions first.
(20:47):
Then after you've learned allthat, you go into three
semi-privates.
And you're supposed to put alarge group at the end of each
week.
And so when we do it that way,people see the value.
And it's on the pricing binder.
It's stacked.
It says what everything is worthas if you were going to pay for
it right there.
And then you say, oh, you getall that.
(21:07):
but it's half off.
That's why we can only do it forthe first month, right?
But you've gotten one-on-one.
Not only have you gotten extremevalue up front, it's a$500
package, so it's notinexpensive, right?
But it's less expensive than ifyou were to get six one-on-one
sessions only, right?
So you get these six one-on-onesessions, the three
(21:29):
semi-private, the four largegroup.
You get to try everything thatwe offer.
And then from there, the resalebecomes...
much easier as well, right?
We don't have to tell you whatsemi-private is like.
You don't have to go intosemi-private inexperienced,
right?
And after learning, you know, weget to know you and you get to
know us one-on-one, thatsemi-private is already tailored
(21:51):
to you.
So the way that we dosemi-private, you know, people's
modifications, adjustments,weights, all that is done in
advance for them on a board whenthey come in.
So there is no thought.
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
So you've got a huge value stack up front and you get
to show them over this period,all the stuff in your gym, solve
their problems.
And then they've got, becauseit's not underpriced, right?
They've got a sunk cost involvedin this where they've got a
complete tailored coaching planin hand.
They've got this period of likesix one-on-ones, all this other
stuff you're doing, and they'vepaid a decent price to get it.
(22:24):
Now they're thinking, oh, I'mgonna, I'm invested.
I have a coach who knows me.
I've got this whole thing.
What is your conversion fromthat Basecamp program to
recurring membership?
SPEAKER_03 (22:34):
Really high.
I mean, we include that.
We So you're essentially
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
for if you're reducing, you know, you could
charge more for that initialprogram if you wanted to, but by
doing that, you're gettingpeople at a good rate to test
it.
And then you've got this entireperiod to educate them and show
how great you are coaching andsolving problems.
And then you're converting themto your recurring membership at
a huge, huge rate, like 80% orbetter.
I mean, that, that to me islike, that's a great way to do
it.
That's the secret sauce.
SPEAKER_03 (23:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think one of the thingsthat helps a lot is that you get
a lot of buy-in from your staffbecause it is, you know, it's a
four-week sale that you'regetting paid to do, right?
Where a lot of gyms are like,hey, you know, take this free
intro session.
And if you don't have a salesteam and your trainers are doing
(23:31):
the selling, right?
Hey, take this.
You have an intro, likepossibility, maybe you make
commission, maybe you don't,whatever.
but here the way that we do itwe've sold them right and
they're going to get paid forsix sessions and if they go into
their semi-private possibly ninesessions to basically show the
value that we offer here andthen to get them as a success
client and you know if we reallytalk about in depth about our
(23:53):
business we have success coachesand we have a we're a hybrid
business so we operate online alot and so kind of everything
that you need is serviced byyour success coach and that
coach is the person that runsyou through Basecamp so you go
through Basecamp with with thiscoach, they know you, they know
your goals, they know a lotabout you, they know what's
important to you, and they makesure that your semi-private
(24:16):
experience, if you go intosemi-private, is as private as
possible, because they've gotall the notes on you, they know
what you're doing, and so it's,you get a lot of buy-in, you
don't feel like a salesman, youjust are helping somebody with
their issue, you guys kinda geta feel-out period to see what
would be the best route to take,and then you guys both take that
(24:36):
route.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
Listeners, these systems are clearly laid out.
Again, every time I've askedKevin a question, he's been able
to lay out exactly the answerreally quickly with like literal
chat GPT bullet points here.
Like this is Kevin GPT.
Like if you don't have theanswers for this stuff and
someone says, how do you sell?
And you're like, well, I kindof, you need to get these
systems in place.
Now you could listen to thispodcast and figure out exactly
(24:59):
what you need to do.
Easier plan, book a call in theshow notes, and you can get a
mentor who will show you plugand play systems and guide you
through building this stuff outat warp speed.
You could definitely do that i'dencourage you to take one of
those two paths because if youdon't have systems like this
you're not going to reachkevin's level which is
world-class elite numbers kevinlet's send listeners out the
door with one tip if someone'sout there and say their arm is
(25:20):
like i don't know it's like 100bucks or even like 150 or
something like that because minewas like 123 back in the day
what is a tip that you wouldgive them like a like a baby
step one that they could take atthe end of the show to start
moving that number up even alittle bit
SPEAKER_03 (25:35):
I would say break down the services that you offer
into a dollar amount and see ifyou're really providing that
amount in value, right?
So if you say, hey, look, I'mcoaching one-on-one sessions and
large group sessions,semi-private sessions, and my
(25:56):
ARM is 150 bucks, right?
And then you break down eachsession and how much value is
each session is worth.
And you'll probably find thatyou're way ahead of that.
And you're just scared to chargethat and one of the big parts
with two brands is that you haveto be very real right and if
you're not offering that valuethen you got some work to do to
make sure that you are offeringthat value and if you're
offering more than that valueand you have to be comfortable
(26:17):
increasing that price and sayinghey this is what the value of
our business is worth ourservice is worth and for the
sake of over delivery to youguys we have to you know
increase prices right so breakdown your services in value
based on what you charge and theservices that you offer and some
that up and see if that alignswith your current pricing.
(26:38):
Sometimes pricing is just like,yeah,$250 sounds good.
$199 sounds great.
So really try to figure out whatit is that your service is worth
and then feel comfortableincreasing those prices if you
land at a higher mark.
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
That is great advice.
A rate increase is needed bymany gyms.
Almost all of them areundercharging and there is an
exact playbook to do it to whereit has a spreadsheet, a rollout
plan and everything done foryou.
It's like plug the numbers in.
Here's what I charging here'swhat I should be charging here's
how I make sure that value iscommunicated to the consumer
here's how I don't lose all mymembers one of our mentors has
(27:13):
done I think it's like I want tosay it's about a hundred rate
increases or something like thatnot one of those gyms lost all
their clients when they do itthe right way and I'm telling
you go circling back to theintro when I told Kevin he
should be charging$39.99 for PTyour service is worth more than
that and if you're scared tocharge more than that you need a
book call via link in the shownotes and we'll talk to you
about it Kevin thank you so muchthis was one of the most direct
(27:35):
succinct conversations Thank youfor laying it out in detail.
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03 (27:40):
My pleasure.
Thanks a lot, Mike.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
That was Kevin Munoz.
This is Run a Profitable Gym.
Thank you so much for watchingor listening.
Please subscribe for more showsjust like this.
And now, here's Two Brainfounder Chris Cooper with a
final message.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
Hey, it's Two Brain founder Chris Cooper with a
quick note.
We created the Gym Owners UnitedFacebook group to help you run a
profitable gym.
Thousands of gym owners justlike you have already joined.
In the group, we share soundadvice about the business of
fitness every day.
I answer questions, I run freewebinars, and I give away all
kinds of great resources to helpyou grow your gym.
(28:13):
I'd love to have you in thatgroup.
It's Gym Owners United onFacebook or go to
gymownersunited.com to join.
Do it today.
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