May 8, 2025 • 19 mins
What if your gym was fully booked and highly profitable all summer long?
While many gym owners brace for a summer slump, Debbie Rosslan ramps up with youth programs such as jump training, volleyball development, and speed and agility, which keep her gym full and profitable.
In this episode of “Run a Profitable Gym,” host Mike Warkentin talks with Debbie about how she uses kids camps to generate consistent revenue during the months of the year when many gym owners struggle.
Debbie breaks down how she structures her camps, prices them for profitability and keeps kids coming back year after year.
She also shares tips on low-cost marketing and explains why parents happily pay premium rates for her kids programs.
Skip the summer slump this year. Instead, listen in as Debbie shares her playbook for a packed and profitable gym. Then take action today.
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0:35 - Summer opportunities for gym owners
3:52 - Revenue from a kids program
5:27 - Setting up a kids program
10:20 - Filling and marketing a kids program
15:18 - How to get started now
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Gym revenue often drops in summer and we all know
it. If you don't do somethingabout it right now, you are
going to be the victim of asummer slump in 2025. The good
News, we are gonna lay out aplan to help you avoid that
with summer camps for Kids.
This is Runner Profitable Gym .
I'm your host, Mike Warkin ,and please hit subscribe
wherever you're watching orlistening. With my thanks with
me today, Debbie Rolin ofCrossFit Unstoppable in
(00:23):
Missouri. She's a gym owner ,gym owner who's had great
success with summer camps forkids. Deb, do you think we can
help people avoid a summerslump today?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Sure thing.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Aha . I'm excited about it. So I'm gonna jump
right into it. So I'm gonna askyou, I always looked at summer
as a period that I had tosurvive and I wasn't thriving.
Is it actually an opportunityas a gym owner?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Of course, yeah. In the past , um, I was kind of
like in the same boat and Iutilized my PE background to
try to do some different thingsfor the kids in the summer.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah. Did you ever have really bad summers? 'cause
I sure did.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Uh, yeah. Back in I think 2014, I was trying to
find something that would , um,help boost the re revenue. So I
came up with a , I think wewent for eight weeks. We did a
eight week camp, and I, we diduh , like field trips,
different things like that,went to the pool, you know, we
(01:21):
had people who could drive usand it turned out to be a good
success. But looking back now,I don't know how I survived
that .
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, I had some dark, dark times and year after
year I'd look at it and I'dsay, why is my summer revenue
so bad? And I'd figure out, oh,I hadn't done anything to drive
it up. And then I had summercancellations, vacation holds
and all the stuff that everyoneelse gets, but then I wouldn't
do anything about it. And ithappened year after year after
year. And it wasn't until weactually started planning about
now for summer that we actuallyhad some success and things
(01:53):
turned around. So if you'relistening out there, the time
to do it is right now becausesummer kids and parents,
everyone's making plans rightnow. If you do nothing today,
you are going to have a toughJune, July, August, and we're
gonna try and prevent that. Soyou said that you had some
summer slumps in the past orsome things that you didn't
really like. What does summerlook like now at your gym?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
We're pretty busy, you know, between the , I do a
one or two week camp for just,you know, the kids, that kind
of thing. But then we also dospeed and agility camps. We do
some , uh, volleyball programs,strength and conditioning
programs. And we do it in themorning, which isn't ideal for
some parents, but it's justwhat works for us and it keeps
(02:33):
the kids busy throughout thesummer. So , uh, we stay pretty
busy.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay. So you said speed and agility. What were
the other ones that you had onyour list?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Um, strength and conditioning. I do some jump
training for volleyballathletes and when , then we do
, um, one-on-one personal ortraining for the kids in
volleyball. 'cause we have twovolleyball courts in our gym.
Okay. So that's , uh, utilizeda lot throughout the
year.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Do you get a lot of repeat business? Like, is it
the same kids coming back everyyear as they age up or is it a
new crew every year? Or how doyou acquire these people?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Um, usually it's a new crew and I've got , um,
I've got like four differentFacebook pages. I try to do
some affinity marketing,bringing the , uh, parents, you
know, sharing with my members.
Hey, we're doing a CrossFitkids camp, you know, I already
got parents asking me if I'mdoing a , a week after the
(03:29):
school gets out, you know,doing my one week camp because
it was such a success. And thenI'll just send out emails to my
past participants to come inand try it out again. It's
middle school kids, grades sixto eight. So , um, but then the
younger ones, it's usuallygrades two to six. So I have a
(03:50):
different age group for eachthing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So how much revenue can a kids program generate?
Gimme an idea of what'spossible.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So it depends on, you know, how many kids you
want to accept. Usually for my,my jump programs, I wanna limit
it to, you know, six to eightkids and I can make anywhere
from, you know, 70 to a hundreddollars an hour for that. For
my kids' camps, I usuallycharge, you know, $30 a day and
(04:21):
that's just for three hours. SoI can, you know, within the
camp that I'm, I'm planning on,I think I'm gonna be making $85
an hour. So it, it just dependson how much you're charging and
how many kids you're willing toaccept.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
How many kids are you willing to accept? What's a
, what's a good number?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It depends. Usually for the kids camps I'll take up
to 12 just so we can make likean even number , uh, for games,
events, things like that. I'vehad pe classes that have 40
people in a class so I can, Ican handle big groups, but I
don't want 40 , um, littlekids..
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah. And that , that's wise. I think there's a
limit with , uh, with kidswhere you, you know, 1, 1 2,
you know , 10, 12 if you'revery skilled is good. We get
one to 20. That's where youstart to get in trouble in a PE
setting. Like you're skilled ina classroom, you might be able
to handle it , uh, as a fitnesscoach, often a second, a second
trainer comes into thosesituations and you can do your
pricing model to kind of figurethat out and decide if you
wanna manage more people, youmight change your prices a
(05:26):
little bit. So let's talk aboutthe essential elements of a
kids program. Like what shouldgym owners put into these
things? 'cause a lot of peopleright now, if they're sitting
there and they have nothingplanned, they're gonna say,
okay, I don't know how to setthis up. I don't know what to
do. I don't know , like howmany sessions would a good kids
program offer? How many weekswould it go? What kind of stuff
would you offer listeners forthat?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
The first of all, you , I think you want to make
it like a four to six weekprogram. Right now my
volleyball programs are justbased on like month to month
with eight sessions in a month,which is a good place to start,
you know, to see what their,their progress is showing that
(06:06):
for kids programs, you know,two times a week. But the big
thing is to make it fun towhere they want to come back.
Because if you make it to whereyou know they're dragging and
they don't wanna be there, thenyou're not gonna get that
recurring revenue anywherefrom, you know, two to three
week times a week. Um, four tosix weeks long. I think that's
(06:28):
a , a good starting point.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Is fun different for different age groups? Like are
kids when you have like young,like say six to nine kind of
age group versus like 12 to 15is a definition of fun
different for those children?
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I think , um, you know, all kids want, they wanna
be competitive, but they wantto play games and you know,
being the PE teacher I am, Ialways try to gamify things and
you can even ask my members in, in the gym. We will play
games here and there, you know,just to make people laugh and,
you know, be silly sometimes.
(07:01):
But I think the, you know, funfor the little ones is, you
know, playing the games thatthey, they like to play and,
you know, make fitness fun towhere they wanna come back.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, I, I think that too, and it's, Chris
Cooper's written about thiswhere sometimes with like the
really young ones in that fourto six to eight range, it's
like games and fun andsilliness and you might limit
those sessions to like half anhour. 'cause the attention span
there is like not not great attimes and you wanna keep it fun
and keep them coming back. Oneof the CrossFit kids , uh, Jeff
and Mickey Martin said this endthe game before it stops being
(07:33):
fun. That's a great one toremember. If you're out there.
Then Chris has talked aboutwhen, yeah, he called it a , a
varsity program and things likethat where they have older
groups . For those kids, fun isdifferent. They might wanna do
sports testing or performancetesting or some competitive
stuff and they might haveperformance goals where like
winning and competing is funfor them. Whereas for kids, you
know, flapping the parachutearound might be fun. So he
recommended three age groupsplits and it was in the range
(07:55):
of like six to nine, like 10 to12 and 12 to 16 or something
like that. But you could figureout something that works for
you . Piece of advice that I'llgive give you of is if you have
nothing on the table right now,look at your membership, figure
out where the majority ofmembers' kids fall and just hit
that one age group hard andthen you can look at expanding
if, but it'd be better to haveone big program than say three
sparse ones. Uh , Deb , haveyou ever been challenged to
(08:18):
like set your prices too low?
Like, that was a mistake that Imade. So I looked at my
membership and I said , okay,I'm charging 1 57 for a kids'
program. I'm gonna , or sorryfor an adult program, I'm gonna
charge a hundred bucks or 90bucks for a kids program. That
was a big mistake. Have youdone that?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Um, yeah, I look back when I first started and ,
um, , I mean just,yeah, I was like, why did I do
that? So, yeah, and I mean ittakes a , I think a lot more
energy as a , a coach for kidsjust because I mean, you are
taking care of the disciplineand you know, keeping them on
(08:55):
track and you know, they're notas mature as our adults in the
class, so they should be pricedjust as much as, I mean I've,
I've priced some of my kids'stuff higher than my adult
memberships and the parents arewilling to pay, pay that
because they see the value inhelping out their kids.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, it's a specialty program and if it's
special, that means it probablyshould cost a little bit more,
right? And that's a mistakethat I didn't make. I thought
that it was a kids program,it's not a, I should underprice
it, but it's really not true.
And if you look at the programsfor organized sports in your
city and town listeners, youwill see some crazy prices and
we're not hung up talking aboutgouging your, you know, your
clients, your kids' clients.
(09:35):
What we're talking about islike the perception of value
and what's really out there. Solike I talked to a guy
yesterday, his kid did, doesswimming and I was like, oh ,
at least you don't have to buylike a lot of equipment. He
said the swimsuit is $700 and Icouldn't believe it. So that's
kind of give you a little bitof pers perspective. So a a
four to six week kids programwith two sessions a week with
(09:56):
an expert coach that's designedto make them have fun and have
a great time and make them lovefitness and all that other
stuff. That's a premium servicethat is not worth less than an
adult membership. It's notworth less than the martial
arts school down the road. It'snot worth less than the
gymnastics program. So look atwhat's priced the price , some
of the pricing around you, andit should be priced at least
equal to your adult programs,if not more. And then look at
(10:18):
some of the pricing around yourlisteners so that you do that.
Now Deb, talk to me about, youmentioned a little bit of this
filling and marketing kidsprogram. If you have nobody
right now, how would you startthis? If I said to you, Deb,
you have four weeks to get akids program going, how would
you fill it?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
First I would look at my member member list and
just see who had the, like youmentioned before , uh, target
who has the kids in one , uh,range of age or whatever. And
then just start it from there.
So for instance, I've got aopen house for a new kids
program beginning of May, andwe've been marketing that for
(10:53):
like the last couple weeks. Iput it on my members page. I
tagged all the members who havekids in those age ranges
because we're doing like twoseparate groups. So start off
with your member base and thenI'm going to just, you know,
blast Facebook, you know, thatkind of thing. Share kids'
pictures and just target thatgroup out there. Target
(11:18):
teachers. I've got a lot ofteacher friends who, you know,
in different in elementaryschool . So I will get with
them and they share my posts.
Those, those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Have you found it when you've talked to your
members and you've said, okay,I have this program coming up,
let's say speed, agility, orwhatever it is that you've got
going on. Are they immediatelyinterested when they have kids?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Um, it depends on how busy they are because their
kids are in so many otherdifferent things. But if I can
make it to where they know it'sgonna be benefiting them, then
usually they'll, they'll signon. But a lot of my, my
programs, I've got a big listof volleyball kids who, you
(12:01):
know , come, come back aroundanytime I have something going
on.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So then it's gonna be key for you to keep a
mailing list and to say, okay,these people were in my program
next year, I'm gonna email 'emall again and say, this is
coming back. Are you stillinterested? Do you do stuff
like that?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah. Um, so I've got a, a spreadsheet that has
everything listed, you know,third grade. 'cause I start my
volleyball program at thirdgrade and then I just kind of,
I put 'em to the next, nextlevel. So I've got from third
to ninth grade of the kidswho've been involved.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay. Talk to me about the PAC mentality of
parents. Like when you find oneparent who's interested, is it
very easy to then say, Hey, Iwanna surround your kids with
the very best other kids. Canyou gimme some names of some
people who might be interested?
Has that ever worked for you?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
A few times. Like , uh, this open house that we're
having, I message the peoplewho are interested because
they've done my programs in thepast. I was like, okay, bring a
friend with you. And that hashelped. It's also helped with
my, my jump program, myvolleyball, you know, bring a
friend with you and then theyend up signing up. So it's,
(13:08):
it's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Local Facebook groups, has that worked well
for you?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I tend to stay off of those. I I, I don't really,
I've never gone onto that. Iknow people have tagged me in
some things on that, butthere's really I think one ,
uh, Jefferson City site that ,uh, I could go on, but I, I
stay off of that 'cause it's alot of negative things too.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
. Yeah. Yeah.
It sure can be, especiallyright now. But if you're
listening and, you know, Deb'sgot a whole network outside of
that, but if you're not, youcould start looking into like
local groups for parents orlocal groups for community
clubs or kids activities, anykind of stuff like that. You
could even start talking likehockey groups. Hey , hey hockey
parents. I have got an upcomingprogram to get your kid ready
(13:51):
for next season. This is dryline training, four to six
weeks, two times a week. Thesetwo age groups message me for
details. That's kinda the help.
First Chris Cooper philosophy,I've got , uh, always have his
book within within distancehere. That's the idea, is
offering some help in thoselocal groups. You could
absolutely do that and it workswonders if you don't have to do
that, you could definitely dothis. Deb mentioned affinity
marketing earlier. That's whereyou're talking to people that
(14:13):
you're , are close to you andthat's where saying, Hey Tim,
your son, he loves hockey. Iwanna get him in this program.
Do you know of anybody else whomight be a perfect fit for that
program? And you can kind ofuse this six degrees of
separation thing to get anentire program filled without
spending a dollar on ads. Likethat works really well. Deb, do
you spend any money on ads?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Um, for, for my , um, my regular membership I do,
but I've boosted some ads forlike my kids' stuff and it's
worked in the past, but I tendto stick to the affinity stuff
and the groups that I haveright now. So,
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And that's my recommendation listeners, is if
you are getting something onthe line, line on the rails
right now, don't worry aboutfiguring out a paid ad
campaign. If you're not anexpert at that, talk to your
current members, talk to thelocal groups. Someone in your
gym is a teacher, someone inyour gym is a coach of some
sort. Start talking to thosepeople and figure out how can
you help their clients, theirathletes, their friends, their
family, how can you help theirlittle ones get fit and have
(15:10):
fun in summer because parentsare looking for activities
right now. So start with thatprinciple is affinity
marketing, and you can findlots of info about that on the
two brain blog. Deb, I'm gonnaask you this. So you're the
expert. If you were a gym outthere, you have nothing on the
calendar right now for June,July, August. What would you do
today? Like right now afterthis podcast and ends, what
would you do to avoid a summerslump?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I would probably come up with maybe , um, like a
Saturday, a Saturday kids classto help out with that. And if
you have air conditioning, thenyou'll find a , a trainer who
is good with kids and maybe doan evening two times a week,
kids class and just, you know,make it fun. And you know,
(15:53):
there's so many things outthere that you can do that you
could get those kids signed up.
And we're, we're planning ontrying to do a, you know, two
class a week during the summerin the evenings and then also
maybe a Saturday Saturday orSunday morning class.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So if I threw this at you , so I'm gonna run this
by you . This would be a planyou could do listeners, if
you're out there, you couldsay, I'm gonna run a six week
session starting from , uh,call it June to mid-July and
you're gonna go, let's saySaturdays at 9:00 AM If that
works for your spacing , yourgym or something like that, and
you're gonna do six sessions,call it that. Just a nice easy
starting point. Deb, what wouldyou price that at six sessions
(16:34):
for a group of let's say 10 to12 kids?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I would probably, myself, I would probably do one
19. So about 20, $20 a session.
I'd probably only do either 30minutes or 45 minutes. So , and
then that way you could get twogroups in there.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yes, there it is. So already you're finding a way to
make that hour valuable andthen almost two exit by getting
a second group in there. Solet's say that group of kids is
like, they're their seven to 10year olds or something like
that. They don't need an hourof stuff. They need 30 minutes
of stuff and you're gonna movefast, get 'em in, get the next
crew out. You could get 20 kids10 and 10 in one hour, priced
(17:13):
at one 19. That's Deb'srecommendation for that one. 20
bucks a session essentially.
And you're gonna run that forfour to , I said six weeks.
Pardon me. And you're gonna doSaturday mornings. Here's what
I would do right now after theshow ends. I would go and I
would walk into your gym and Iwould find the first person
with kids and ask them ifthey'd be interested in
something like that. And thenif they are, or if they aren't,
(17:34):
ask them who else that theyknow might be interested in
that. Repeat this throughoutthe day with the people that
you see in your gym. I bet thatyou can fill that. Do you ,
Deb, do you think that planwould work marketing wise ?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh yeah, I think so.
Um, I plan on using that
Speaker 1 (17:50):
. I think it
would work. And you know what?
Here's the thing. I was reallybad at paid marketing. I was
bad at running specialtyprograms and things like that
for children. Uh, I assignedthis to , uh, a staff member at
my gym, passionate about kidsinvest in the program. And all
that person did was just starttalking to our members and
said, Hey, we have a kidsprogram now, would you like to
sign up? The thing was fullright away mm-hmm
(18:11):
. And then all of a sudden, afew other people heard about it
because they told their friendsand more people were there. And
all of a sudden I had more kidsthan I could handle. We had
little pink dumbbells runningaround and pool noodles and
everyone was having a blast andthe revenue went up and the
summer slump didn't happen thatyear. So Deb, thanks so much
for being here and sharing thesecrets. I hope this is gonna
help gym owners all over theworld avoid the summer sums.
Thank you so much, Deb.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
All right , thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That was Debbie Roslyn , this is Run a
Profitable Gym. Thanks so muchfor watching and listening.
Please subscribe for more showsjust like this because we
helped you fix your gym andbuild a better business right
here every single week. And nowhere's to Brain founder Chris
Cooper with a final message.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Hey, it's true Brain founder Chris Cooper. With a
quick note , we created the GymOwners United Facebook group to
help you run a profitable gym.
Thousands of gym owners, justlike you have already joined in
the group. We share soundadvice about the business of
fitness every day I answerquestions, I run free webinars
and I give away all kinds ofgreat resources to help you
(19:06):
grow your gym. I'd love to haveyou in that group. It's Gym
Owners United on Facebook, orgo to gym owners united.com to
join. Do it today.
Gym revenue often drops in summer and we all know
it. If you don't do somethingabout it right now, you are
going to be the victim of asummer slump in 2025. The good
News, we are gonna lay out aplan to help you avoid that
with summer camps for Kids.
This is Runner Profitable Gym .
I'm your host, Mike Warkin ,and please hit subscribe
wherever you're watching orlistening. With my thanks with
me today, Debbie Rolin ofCrossFit Unstoppable in
(00:23):
Missouri. She's a gym owner ,gym owner who's had great
success with summer camps forkids. Deb, do you think we can
help people avoid a summerslump today?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Sure thing.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Aha . I'm excited about it. So I'm gonna jump
right into it. So I'm gonna askyou, I always looked at summer
as a period that I had tosurvive and I wasn't thriving.
Is it actually an opportunityas a gym owner?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Of course, yeah. In the past , um, I was kind of
like in the same boat and Iutilized my PE background to
try to do some different thingsfor the kids in the summer.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah. Did you ever have really bad summers? 'cause
I sure did.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Uh, yeah. Back in I think 2014, I was trying to
find something that would , um,help boost the re revenue. So I
came up with a , I think wewent for eight weeks. We did a
eight week camp, and I, we diduh , like field trips,
different things like that,went to the pool, you know, we
(01:21):
had people who could drive usand it turned out to be a good
success. But looking back now,I don't know how I survived
that
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, I had some dark, dark times and year after
year I'd look at it and I'dsay, why is my summer revenue
so bad? And I'd figure out, oh,I hadn't done anything to drive
it up. And then I had summercancellations, vacation holds
and all the stuff that everyoneelse gets, but then I wouldn't
do anything about it. And ithappened year after year after
year. And it wasn't until weactually started planning about
now for summer that we actuallyhad some success and things
(01:53):
turned around. So if you'relistening out there, the time
to do it is right now becausesummer kids and parents,
everyone's making plans rightnow. If you do nothing today,
you are going to have a toughJune, July, August, and we're
gonna try and prevent that. Soyou said that you had some
summer slumps in the past orsome things that you didn't
really like. What does summerlook like now at your gym?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
We're pretty busy, you know, between the , I do a
one or two week camp for just,you know, the kids, that kind
of thing. But then we also dospeed and agility camps. We do
some , uh, volleyball programs,strength and conditioning
programs. And we do it in themorning, which isn't ideal for
some parents, but it's justwhat works for us and it keeps
(02:33):
the kids busy throughout thesummer. So , uh, we stay pretty
busy.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay. So you said speed and agility. What were
the other ones that you had onyour list?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Um, strength and conditioning. I do some jump
training for volleyballathletes and when , then we do
, um, one-on-one personal ortraining for the kids in
volleyball. 'cause we have twovolleyball courts in our gym.
Okay. So that's , uh, utilizeda lot
year.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Do you get a lot of repeat business? Like, is it
the same kids coming back everyyear as they age up or is it a
new crew every year? Or how doyou acquire these people?
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Um, usually it's a new crew and I've got , um,
I've got like four differentFacebook pages. I try to do
some affinity marketing,bringing the , uh, parents, you
know, sharing with my members.
Hey, we're doing a CrossFitkids camp, you know, I already
got parents asking me if I'mdoing a , a week after the
(03:29):
school gets out, you know,doing my one week camp because
it was such a success. And thenI'll just send out emails to my
past participants to come inand try it out again. It's
middle school kids, grades sixto eight. So , um, but then the
younger ones, it's usuallygrades two to six. So I have a
(03:50):
different age group for eachthing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So how much revenue can a kids program generate?
Gimme an idea of what'spossible.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So it depends on, you know, how many kids you
want to accept. Usually for my,my jump programs, I wanna limit
it to, you know, six to eightkids and I can make anywhere
from, you know, 70 to a hundreddollars an hour for that. For
my kids' camps, I usuallycharge, you know, $30 a day and
(04:21):
that's just for three hours. SoI can, you know, within the
camp that I'm, I'm planning on,I think I'm gonna be making $85
an hour. So it, it just dependson how much you're charging and
how many kids you're willing toaccept.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
How many kids are you willing to accept? What's a
, what's a good number?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
It depends. Usually for the kids camps I'll take up
to 12 just so we can make likean even number , uh, for games,
events, things like that. I'vehad pe classes that have 40
people in a class so I can, Ican handle big groups, but I
don't want 40 , um, littlekids.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah. And that , that's wise. I think there's a
limit with , uh, with kidswhere you, you know, 1, 1 2,
you know , 10, 12 if you'revery skilled is good. We get
one to 20. That's where youstart to get in trouble in a PE
setting. Like you're skilled ina classroom, you might be able
to handle it , uh, as a fitnesscoach, often a second, a second
trainer comes into thosesituations and you can do your
pricing model to kind of figurethat out and decide if you
wanna manage more people, youmight change your prices a
(05:26):
little bit. So let's talk aboutthe essential elements of a
kids program. Like what shouldgym owners put into these
things? 'cause a lot of peopleright now, if they're sitting
there and they have nothingplanned, they're gonna say,
okay, I don't know how to setthis up. I don't know what to
do. I don't know , like howmany sessions would a good kids
program offer? How many weekswould it go? What kind of stuff
would you offer listeners forthat?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
The first of all, you , I think you want to make
it like a four to six weekprogram. Right now my
volleyball programs are justbased on like month to month
with eight sessions in a month,which is a good place to start,
you know, to see what their,their progress is showing that
(06:06):
for kids programs, you know,two times a week. But the big
thing is to make it fun towhere they want to come back.
Because if you make it to whereyou know they're dragging and
they don't wanna be there, thenyou're not gonna get that
recurring revenue anywherefrom, you know, two to three
week times a week. Um, four tosix weeks long. I think that's
(06:28):
a , a good starting point.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Is fun different for different age groups? Like are
kids when you have like young,like say six to nine kind of
age group versus like 12 to 15is a definition of fun
different for those children?
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I think , um, you know, all kids want, they wanna
be competitive, but they wantto play games and you know,
being the PE teacher I am, Ialways try to gamify things and
you can even ask my members in, in the gym. We will play
games here and there, you know,just to make people laugh and,
you know, be silly sometimes.
(07:01):
But I think the, you know, funfor the little ones is, you
know, playing the games thatthey, they like to play and,
you know, make fitness fun towhere they wanna come back.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, I, I think that too, and it's, Chris
Cooper's written about thiswhere sometimes with like the
really young ones in that fourto six to eight range, it's
like games and fun andsilliness and you might limit
those sessions to like half anhour. 'cause the attention span
there is like not not great attimes and you wanna keep it fun
and keep them coming back. Oneof the CrossFit kids , uh, Jeff
and Mickey Martin said this endthe game before it stops being
(07:33):
fun. That's a great one toremember. If you're out there.
Then Chris has talked aboutwhen, yeah, he called it a , a
varsity program and things likethat where they have older
groups . For those kids, fun isdifferent. They might wanna do
sports testing or performancetesting or some competitive
stuff and they might haveperformance goals where like
winning and competing is funfor them. Whereas for kids, you
know, flapping the parachutearound might be fun. So he
recommended three age groupsplits and it was in the range
(07:55):
of like six to nine, like 10 to12 and 12 to 16 or something
like that. But you could figureout something that works for
you . Piece of advice that I'llgive give you of is if you have
nothing on the table right now,look at your membership, figure
out where the majority ofmembers' kids fall and just hit
that one age group hard andthen you can look at expanding
if, but it'd be better to haveone big program than say three
sparse ones. Uh , Deb , haveyou ever been challenged to
(08:18):
like set your prices too low?
Like, that was a mistake that Imade. So I looked at my
membership and I said , okay,I'm charging 1 57 for a kids'
program. I'm gonna , or sorryfor an adult program, I'm gonna
charge a hundred bucks or 90bucks for a kids program. That
was a big mistake. Have youdone that?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Um, yeah, I look back when I first started and ,
um,
that? So, yeah, and I mean ittakes a , I think a lot more
energy as a , a coach for kidsjust because I mean, you are
taking care of the disciplineand you know, keeping them on
(08:55):
track and you know, they're notas mature as our adults in the
class, so they should be pricedjust as much as, I mean I've,
I've priced some of my kids'stuff higher than my adult
memberships and the parents arewilling to pay, pay that
because they see the value inhelping out their kids.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, it's a specialty program and if it's
special, that means it probablyshould cost a little bit more,
right? And that's a mistakethat I didn't make. I thought
that it was a kids program,it's not a, I should underprice
it, but it's really not true.
And if you look at the programsfor organized sports in your
city and town listeners, youwill see some crazy prices and
we're not hung up talking aboutgouging your, you know, your
clients, your kids' clients.
(09:35):
What we're talking about islike the perception of value
and what's really out there. Solike I talked to a guy
yesterday, his kid did, doesswimming and I was like, oh ,
at least you don't have to buylike a lot of equipment. He
said the swimsuit is $700 and Icouldn't believe it. So that's
kind of give you a little bitof pers perspective. So a a
four to six week kids programwith two sessions a week with
(09:56):
an expert coach that's designedto make them have fun and have
a great time and make them lovefitness and all that other
stuff. That's a premium servicethat is not worth less than an
adult membership. It's notworth less than the martial
arts school down the road. It'snot worth less than the
gymnastics program. So look atwhat's priced the price , some
of the pricing around you, andit should be priced at least
equal to your adult programs,if not more. And then look at
(10:18):
some of the pricing around yourlisteners so that you do that.
Now Deb, talk to me about, youmentioned a little bit of this
filling and marketing kidsprogram. If you have nobody
right now, how would you startthis? If I said to you, Deb,
you have four weeks to get akids program going, how would
you fill it?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
First I would look at my member member list and
just see who had the, like youmentioned before , uh, target
who has the kids in one , uh,range of age or whatever. And
then just start it from there.
So for instance, I've got aopen house for a new kids
program beginning of May, andwe've been marketing that for
(10:53):
like the last couple weeks. Iput it on my members page. I
tagged all the members who havekids in those age ranges
because we're doing like twoseparate groups. So start off
with your member base and thenI'm going to just, you know,
blast Facebook, you know, thatkind of thing. Share kids'
pictures and just target thatgroup out there. Target
(11:18):
teachers. I've got a lot ofteacher friends who, you know,
in different in elementaryschool . So I will get with
them and they share my posts.
Those, those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Have you found it when you've talked to your
members and you've said, okay,I have this program coming up,
let's say speed, agility, orwhatever it is that you've got
going on. Are they immediatelyinterested when they have kids?
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Um, it depends on how busy they are because their
kids are in so many otherdifferent things. But if I can
make it to where they know it'sgonna be benefiting them, then
usually they'll, they'll signon. But a lot of my, my
programs, I've got a big listof volleyball kids who, you
(12:01):
know , come, come back aroundanytime I have something going
on.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So then it's gonna be key for you to keep a
mailing list and to say, okay,these people were in my program
next year, I'm gonna email 'emall again and say, this is
coming back. Are you stillinterested? Do you do stuff
like that?
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah. Um, so I've got a, a spreadsheet that has
everything listed, you know,third grade. 'cause I start my
volleyball program at thirdgrade and then I just kind of,
I put 'em to the next, nextlevel. So I've got from third
to ninth grade of the kidswho've been involved.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay. Talk to me about the PAC mentality of
parents. Like when you find oneparent who's interested, is it
very easy to then say, Hey, Iwanna surround your kids with
the very best other kids. Canyou gimme some names of some
people who might be interested?
Has that ever worked for you?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
A few times. Like , uh, this open house that we're
having, I message the peoplewho are interested because
they've done my programs in thepast. I was like, okay, bring a
friend with you. And that hashelped. It's also helped with
my, my jump program, myvolleyball, you know, bring a
friend with you and then theyend up signing up. So it's,
(13:08):
it's good stuff.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Local Facebook groups, has that worked well
for you?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I tend to stay off of those. I I, I don't really,
I've never gone onto that. Iknow people have tagged me in
some things on that, butthere's really I think one ,
uh, Jefferson City site that ,uh, I could go on, but I, I
stay off of that 'cause it's alot of negative things too.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
It sure can be, especiallyright now. But if you're
listening and, you know, Deb'sgot a whole network outside of
that, but if you're not, youcould start looking into like
local groups for parents orlocal groups for community
clubs or kids activities, anykind of stuff like that. You
could even start talking likehockey groups. Hey , hey hockey
parents. I have got an upcomingprogram to get your kid ready
(13:51):
for next season. This is dryline training, four to six
weeks, two times a week. Thesetwo age groups message me for
details. That's kinda the help.
First Chris Cooper philosophy,I've got , uh, always have his
book within within distancehere. That's the idea, is
offering some help in thoselocal groups. You could
absolutely do that and it workswonders if you don't have to do
that, you could definitely dothis. Deb mentioned affinity
marketing earlier. That's whereyou're talking to people that
(14:13):
you're , are close to you andthat's where saying, Hey Tim,
your son, he loves hockey. Iwanna get him in this program.
Do you know of anybody else whomight be a perfect fit for that
program? And you can kind ofuse this six degrees of
separation thing to get anentire program filled without
spending a dollar on ads. Likethat works really well. Deb, do
you spend any money on ads?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Um, for, for my , um, my regular membership I do,
but I've boosted some ads forlike my kids' stuff and it's
worked in the past, but I tendto stick to the affinity stuff
and the groups that I haveright now. So,
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And that's my recommendation listeners, is if
you are getting something onthe line, line on the rails
right now, don't worry aboutfiguring out a paid ad
campaign. If you're not anexpert at that, talk to your
current members, talk to thelocal groups. Someone in your
gym is a teacher, someone inyour gym is a coach of some
sort. Start talking to thosepeople and figure out how can
you help their clients, theirathletes, their friends, their
family, how can you help theirlittle ones get fit and have
(15:10):
fun in summer because parentsare looking for activities
right now. So start with thatprinciple is affinity
marketing, and you can findlots of info about that on the
two brain blog. Deb, I'm gonnaask you this. So you're the
expert. If you were a gym outthere, you have nothing on the
calendar right now for June,July, August. What would you do
today? Like right now afterthis podcast and ends, what
would you do to avoid a summerslump?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I would probably come up with maybe , um, like a
Saturday, a Saturday kids classto help out with that. And if
you have air conditioning, thenyou'll find a , a trainer who
is good with kids and maybe doan evening two times a week,
kids class and just, you know,make it fun. And you know,
(15:53):
there's so many things outthere that you can do that you
could get those kids signed up.
And we're, we're planning ontrying to do a, you know, two
class a week during the summerin the evenings and then also
maybe a Saturday Saturday orSunday morning class.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So if I threw this at you , so I'm gonna run this
by you . This would be a planyou could do listeners, if
you're out there, you couldsay, I'm gonna run a six week
session starting from , uh,call it June to mid-July and
you're gonna go, let's saySaturdays at 9:00 AM If that
works for your spacing , yourgym or something like that, and
you're gonna do six sessions,call it that. Just a nice easy
starting point. Deb, what wouldyou price that at six sessions
(16:34):
for a group of let's say 10 to12 kids?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I would probably, myself, I would probably do one
19. So about 20, $20 a session.
I'd probably only do either 30minutes or 45 minutes. So , and
then that way you could get twogroups in there.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yes, there it is. So already you're finding a way to
make that hour valuable andthen almost two exit by getting
a second group in there. Solet's say that group of kids is
like, they're their seven to 10year olds or something like
that. They don't need an hourof stuff. They need 30 minutes
of stuff and you're gonna movefast, get 'em in, get the next
crew out. You could get 20 kids10 and 10 in one hour, priced
(17:13):
at one 19. That's Deb'srecommendation for that one. 20
bucks a session essentially.
And you're gonna run that forfour to , I said six weeks.
Pardon me. And you're gonna doSaturday mornings. Here's what
I would do right now after theshow ends. I would go and I
would walk into your gym and Iwould find the first person
with kids and ask them ifthey'd be interested in
something like that. And thenif they are, or if they aren't,
(17:34):
ask them who else that theyknow might be interested in
that. Repeat this throughoutthe day with the people that
you see in your gym. I bet thatyou can fill that. Do you ,
Deb, do you think that planwould work marketing wise ?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Oh yeah, I think so.
Um, I plan on using that
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Here's the thing. I was reallybad at paid marketing. I was
bad at running specialtyprograms and things like that
for children. Uh, I assignedthis to , uh, a staff member at
my gym, passionate about kidsinvest in the program. And all
that person did was just starttalking to our members and
said, Hey, we have a kidsprogram now, would you like to
sign up? The thing was fullright away mm-hmm
(18:11):
. And then all of a sudden, afew other people heard about it
because they told their friendsand more people were there. And
all of a sudden I had more kidsthan I could handle. We had
little pink dumbbells runningaround and pool noodles and
everyone was having a blast andthe revenue went up and the
summer slump didn't happen thatyear. So Deb, thanks so much
for being here and sharing thesecrets. I hope this is gonna
help gym owners all over theworld avoid the summer sums.
Thank you so much, Deb.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
All right , thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That was Debbie Roslyn , this is Run a
Profitable Gym. Thanks so muchfor watching and listening.
Please subscribe for more showsjust like this because we
helped you fix your gym andbuild a better business right
here every single week. And nowhere's to Brain founder Chris
Cooper with a final message.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Hey, it's true Brain founder Chris Cooper. With a
quick note , we created the GymOwners United Facebook group to
help you run a profitable gym.
Thousands of gym owners, justlike you have already joined in
the group. We share soundadvice about the business of
fitness every day I answerquestions, I run free webinars
and I give away all kinds ofgreat resources to help you
(19:06):
grow your gym. I'd love to haveyou in that group. It's Gym
Owners United on Facebook, orgo to gym owners united.com to
join. Do it today.
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