2 Billion Streams Later, Powfu Realized this about the Music Industry

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Today I'm sitting down with the artist that made this song.
You may or may not recognize hisname, but several years ago he
had one of the biggest hits fromTikTok with 2 billion streams.
But what you didn't know is thathe's actually a follower of

(00:22):
Jesus. You guys might not like Jesus or
might not know him, but I promise you that He knows you
and that He loves you and He loves you so much that He died
for you 2000 years ago. So much.
That's right, he's pretty activein his local community doing
boots on the ground ministry. In this conversation, we
discussed the tension between viral fame and faith.

(00:42):
Do you think that there's been new restraints you've had to
create as you're growing closer to Jesus in terms of the art?
What are those? Cursing.
I don't do that at all anymore. I mean, I say.
And some of the conflicts that arose while being a follower of
Jesus in the music industry, Were there ever times in the
industry where you were told yougot tone it down a little bit on

(01:05):
your socials with this Jesus stuff?
When I was with Columbia, I likemade a post about and they're
like, you got to take that down and I didn't but.
Before we get into our conversations, they were
powerful. Guys.
My name is Ruslan. This channel exists to
encourage, empower, and inspire you to live a life that blesses
God. So if you're new here or if
you're not new here, do me a favor, make sure you hit that
subscribe button as we are on the cusp of reaching 800,000

(01:28):
subscribers, and I would love tocelebrate that with you.
All right, let's jump into it. All right, ladies and gentlemen,
today's guest Viral Sensation has one of the biggest songs
from the TikTok world. Pafu, thank you for joining me,
brother. Yes Sir, I'm going to call you.
It is 'cause I know you is is he?

(01:50):
You have a new project that's about to come out with Lo Fi
Girl or that is out new project that's out with Lo Fi Girl.
We met several years ago and I would say especially recently,
we hung out at Apologetics Canada a couple months ago and
I, I think people know your music.
They know you from deathbed, they know you from just making
like fire hip hop lofi music. I have been so intrigued and

(02:15):
impressed by your faith and the way your faith works into the
art. And yet the way you make art
that is not always explicitly centered around your faith.
And so I want to get into that. I want to talk about that your,
your philosophy towards that approach.
Hear a bit of your testimony, but most people probably

(02:38):
recognize you from the deathbed song.
So let's, let's start there and then we'll go backwards and
we'll kind of we'll kind of jumparound.
Is it fair to say that deathbed was like the the first one of
the first like mega viral songs and you were in a way one of the
first like TikTok artist that exploded?
I don't, I don't mean that as a derogatory no, just like a
creative that like got popping because of TikTok.

(03:01):
Yeah, no, definitely. I I don't even think I had
TikTok downloaded when deathbed started popping off OK.
And I was confused. I remember I was seeing the
numbers on the YouTube video like they're just going there,
the numbers are going up everyday.
And I was like what the heck is going on?
And then I realized that there'sthousands of people making
videos with the song on TikTok and I was like, Oh yeah.

(03:23):
So. For those folks that don't know,
Deathbed is a record that came out in 2021.
Or maybe 20. Yeah, 2020-2021 around there,
yeah. And it it's, I mean, what 22
billion streams plus and growing.
And it was a song like, I feel like it during the COVID era,

(03:45):
like it just was everywhere likethat, that sample, like it was
it was everywhere on TikTok videos.
And you did not actually even have a TikTok at the time
yourself. Yeah.
So then how did the song get discovered and land on?
Yeah, so. Many videos, I think there was
an audio from the YouTube video like this YouTube channel posted

(04:07):
it and I think the audio from the YouTube video went on TikTok
somehow and then it got taken down though like everything got
deleted because I got striked orwhatever because I didn't have
permission at the start. Because you sampled the record.
Uh huh. And yeah, I was like, I saw the
other day actually, people were getting people were like
commenting or whatever, saying like how I how I didn't want to
give credit to Biba Doobie and or Biba Doobie.

(04:31):
I said that wrong and, and I waslike, no, I tried so hard.
Like I was messaging, I was messaging her, I was messaging
her team, her label, everybody. And I was just like, I was a
smaller artist. So of course they're gonna
ignore me. I don't, I don't blame them, but
I was like, I literally my DMS every day, just people saying,
hey, release this song, release this song.
That's all. That's all they wanted me to do.
So I was like, what the heck do I do?
So I released it and then it wasout for maybe a couple or a few

(04:55):
weeks and it started doing, it started getting really big and
then it got taken down, which like made the hype even crazier.
And that's when I had labels messaging me saying like they
can help clear and stuff. How big was the song before you
sampled it and did your thing with it?
Yeah, I mean, it was like a tinyis the producer, his name is
Otterpop and he it was like a small SoundCloud because at that

(05:18):
time I was just listening to lo fi hip hop beats and that's just
because I liked them. And then my friend was like,
hey, you should rap on this one.And I was like, OK, I'll try it.
And yeah, it was really small. I think it maybe had 30,000
views or something. OK.
And how much music could you putout put out up until that point?
Yeah, I had AI, had a little bit.
I had maybe 30 songs, OK. Like on SoundCloud?

(05:41):
Yeah. OK.
So so you got a little a little bit of stuff out.
You had gotten some reps in. What was your biggest song up
until that point? Yeah, there's this one called I
Could Never Be Loved, which did really good on YouTube.
There's this YouTube channel called Promoting Sounds OK which
he he uploaded that song and that one did pretty good.
What's what's pretty good? I'm I'm going to look it up here
while you're while you're telling.
Me yeah, it's called I could never be loved let's.

(06:04):
See. And this was how many years
before that? Maybe like maybe months, maybe 8
months before that. OK.
So you had some momentum going. Yeah.
OK. So that's a six point, Yeah, six
6.8 million views. How many of that was after?
Deathbed. Deathbed blew up.
Yeah. I don't know.

(06:25):
It's it's hard to tell. It's all a blur at this.
Point, it's just, yeah, 'cause Iwas just focused on making
music, like I was dropping songsevery month and stuff.
So yeah, it's hard to know what's from deathbed, what's not
from deathbed, you know? Yeah, yeah.
How fast was that explosion? Was it 'cause I remember you're
saying I put it out and then I had an issue with the sample

(06:48):
clearance, it got struck and then you couldn't re release it
until after you signed with a label that.
Helped you Because I didn't knowhow to clear it.
And I didn't really want to signwith a label because my dad had
issues because he was in a band when I was younger and he he got
kind of screwed over by the labels.
And so I was a bit scared, but Ididn't know what to do.
So I signed with basically Universe in Colombia were like,
you know, bidding war over me and so.

(07:08):
Off of one song, like that one Bible song, Yeah.
They probably also saw that you had a back catalog and you were
capable of making good music. Yeah, I'm sure.
Yeah. So then I went with Columbia.
I also really want a short contract.
I was like, I only want to do like an album or two with you
guys. And then what?
What was the question again? Song comes out when did yeah how

(07:31):
that window between it coming out, getting struck and then it
finally like you couldn't re release until Columbia was able.
To play. Yeah, Yeah.
And that took maybe, maybe a fewweeks like, oh, that was fast.
Yeah. They tried doing it really quick
because I knew the momentum was there.
So yeah. And so then.
After it's released, is that when it like really goes mega
viral? Yeah, OK.

(07:52):
And then how do you personally capitalize at that point then do
you get a TikTok and start posting more stuff or or is it
was it? Were people even doing that yet?
Because again, I remember like the JVKEJVJVKE and the Nick DS
and the Connor prices kind of came after you in terms of how
they started finessing TikTok, you know?
Yeah, no, I, I had a TikTok, hada Instagram and I was posting.

(08:14):
It wasn't like I feel like I didn't really know what I was
doing though. And like, a lot of people liked
it, but it was also like, unattractive to a lot of people,
you know? So yeah.
And that's like, how like peoplestart calling me lofi for like,
because like, I didn't really care too much.
I was just post like, it would be like crappy quality videos
and stuff, you know, and like, kind of match my crappy quality

(08:36):
music. And then, yeah, some people like
this, some people didn't, but. You said it was.
What was it? What did you say?
Unattractive. Well, I was just like, not, it
wasn't clean. Like, it was like noises and,
you know, yeah. Was that was that like
intentional on your part or you just?
Not really. I was just like, because I
started making music for fun, right?
And my and my grandparents, likeI live with my grandparents

(08:57):
upstairs and, and there just be noises going on and it'd be
like, I didn't have the best setup.
I don't even know how to record properly.
And so it was like, it's kind ofjust natural sounding, which
made it more emotional in some ways.
So song is re released. Were you generally happy with
wherever you in Columbia landed from a business standpoint at

(09:19):
the time when we can talk about it?
Yeah, at the time it was cool. I mean, everything was going
good. So like, it's hard to know how
much the label did, you know, 'cause like Deathbed was going
to be big even if I didn't sign it.
So it's like, I don't know how much credit to give them, but it
was cool. Like I went, they flew me out to
LA and all this stuff. Like they treated me like a

(09:40):
king, which obviously they do toeverybody, but it was a good
experience. And then the first deal ended
and I was like, I was like, do Iwant to sign with them again or
not? And I did sign with them one
more time. And that time it was like I, I
wasn't enjoying it, OK. So tell me about the first time
around, Deathbed. You got a viral song.
It's popping off. Yeah.
What is the experience like working with them?

(10:01):
What? What?
What do you think they're doing to make the song bigger?
I know you said you were doing radio interviews.
Yeah, that sort of stuff. Yeah, a lot of interviews, a lot
of press stuff and that's basically it.
Like it's, it's just weird nowadays, like labels, they just
tell you like, hey, post more onTikTok post.
More on TikTok. Yeah, and it's like, what are
you like? I don't think you're really
doing anything. And it's like they can put money

(10:22):
into ads and stuff, but it's like nobody really likes ads,
you know, like natural. People want to feel like they're
discovering it on their own, Which?
Is yeah, it's the best growth. And it's like, so labels don't
like. I remember when my dad was in a
band though, like in the early 2000s, it's like you needed a
label to like, make a music video because music videos are
like 50K or something, you know?Now it's like you have an
iPhone, So. So you don't need a label for

(10:44):
anything or anything? Yeah.
So they're getting behind you todo a radio interviews and and
the song Would would you say just like incrementally bigger
and bigger and bigger or was there like a one point where
really spikes and just goes crazy?
Yeah, I know. I think it was pretty long,
which was cool. Like I feel like songs that blow

(11:04):
up nowadays, it'll blow up for like a month maybe, you know?
And then it kind of dies down. Deathbed.
I feel like it like it was big for like months though which was
really cool to see. Yeah.
Do you think there was anything in you being more mysterious in
your, I guess online persona? Because I don't remember you

(11:26):
like over saturating on Instagram like you, you barely
post now and back then you weren't oversight.
Do you think some of that helpedwith making the song bigger
because it wasn't so much stuff around it, There wasn't 100 tik
toks around it? Or do you think it that that was
irrelevant? It would have been it.
It was going to do what it was going to do.
Yeah, I think, I don't know about that, but I do know like

(11:50):
the song, like I was talking about dying.
So I think that actually helped it like a lot of people.
Like, one of the most searched things was like, is power food
dead? And I even, I didn't think
people would take it serious. You know, I was just writing a
song and then so I think that helped in terms of, like, me
posting and stuff. I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting how much

(12:11):
things have changed even since then.
Like that wasn't that long ago, but like in in music world years
like that, it was kind of a longtime ago.
You know, in five years, like a lot has changed within the music
world, you know? So where did that song come
from? You said you you just talking
about dying, but you weren't talking about dying.
Is this always kind of been a part of your creative process?

(12:31):
You want to write songs that people can relate to.
They're not your stories, but they're kind of told from a
first person point of view. Like tell me about that.
Yeah, I don't, I don't really like, I don't really talk about
my life to the the world too much.
Like I don't, I don't vent on Instagram lives like a lot of
people do. And so my music is kind of like

(12:52):
how I vent. And so I'll talk about things in
my life. I'll talk about things that I've
seen. I'll talk about things in my
like, I have a lot of friends that are going through like
crazy situations. So sometimes I'll talk about
their life, you know, And so it's like, it's kind of a mix of
everything to be honest, 'cause that's one of the most like big
questions I get asked is like what, what, where do you get
inspiration from? And it's like, I get it from

(13:14):
everywhere. And so, yeah, deathbed.
The, the way that I got that idea was the sample.
She was saying like, don't stay awake, don't fall asleep, all
that stuff. And I was like, I don't want to.
I already had a song where I wastalking about sleeping and I was
like, I want to talk about sleeping.
And so I was like, what could sleep mean in in another world?
I was like, what if she's talking about like death, you
know? And so I was like, oh, that'd be
cool. Because I've never heard a song

(13:35):
where somebody's talking about from this perspective of dying,
You know, I was like, I'm going to do that.
And I feel like when you have anidea that's like, new and fresh,
it's like, I can write a song in, like, minutes about it, you
know? Yeah.
Interesting thing is that the word sleep is used to describe
death in scriptures, right? I think of First Corinthians 15

(13:57):
where Paul is talking about, youknow, some of the, the, the
early creed about Jesus appearedto 500 people.
And then there's, he appears to me like least of all, and the
apostles and all that sort of stuff, many of whom are still
alive, though, has some fallen asleep, right.
So he's reciting this creed and then he says a lot of these
people are still around. There's eyewitnesses good reason

(14:18):
to believe this. Some of them have fallen asleep,
but some of them are still around, right.
So it's like interesting that that that you took that.
Was that intentional in any way shape or?
Form, no, but it could have beeninspired by that 'cause I was,
yeah, I definitely been reading the Bible, so.
Yeah, yeah. So tell me about that, like that
aspect of your journey, faith inJesus.

(14:39):
You're not a Christian artist per SE, but you just did
something with Apologetics Canada.
He did a live show with them. So shout out to Apologetics
Canada. And then I, I want to get into
the new music because the new music is similar, like you're
talking about relationship stuffand it's like some of it is
about you, some of it it's not about you, you know, and I
think, I think that's really interesting.
But yeah, tell me more about like, like your faith and and
how you came to faith and all that.
Yeah. So I feel like these past couple

(15:02):
years have actually been like really crazy for me.
I because I grew up going to church, my mom was 17 when she
had me. So like, my parents were really
young, so they were kind of likegoing in their faith when I was
being raised too, you know? Your mom was 17.
How old is your? Dad, my dad was maybe 19 or 20,
OK. And so they were like going to

(15:23):
church on and off. So I was kind of in church on
and off. They had faith, but like they
didn't, I feel like they weren'teducated, you know, I didn't, I
didn't fully understand it. And so in high school, I was
going to public school and I didn't have any friends who are
Christian. Like I had, no, I didn't know
anybody who's Christian. And so I was like embarrassed to
talk about my faith. I feel like I was the only one.

(15:45):
And also like, I didn't really understand it like the way I do
now. So I was like, I remember
getting an argument sometimes with people and I just feel like
nervous and anxious and like angry the whole time, you know?
And it's because like, I didn't even understand what I was
sticking up for, you know? And so it wasn't until I got
married a few years ago when I feel like, like I really started

(16:06):
working on my relationship with God.
And I've always talked about God.
I've always tried to defend him,but it's definitely hard.
And you don't really want to when you don't know much about
it, you know? And so I had this basically, I,
I had this like moment where I met the Holy Spirit for like the

(16:29):
first, like not the first time, I'd say, but it like, I felt
this so clear. I was reading, I'll, I'll tell
you the story. So basically I was watching a
lot of Youtubers like people whoare preaching the gospel, right?
Because I feel like I learned a lot from like, seeing questions
from unbelievers and seeing how people preach and share it, you
know? Do you remember who you were

(16:49):
watching? Yeah, I was watching this guy
named Apollo. OK, I like him a lot.
Bryce Crawford. Ray Comfort.
Bryce and Ray, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So I was watching like, basically all those.
There's another guy, Nicholas bowling.
And I was like, it would fire meup, right?
I was like, this is cool. Like I want to do this.
And so I ended up Facetiming Apollo.

(17:10):
I'd end on Instagram and he was super nice and he Facetimed me
and I was just asking him questions because I was like, I
was like struggling with lust because when I was younger I was
addicted to porn and I didn't know how to like how to beat it,
I guess, you know? And I remember researching it, I
was like, I was like, I was watching these videos and these

(17:32):
pastors, they were saying like, oh, it's just like you'll just
wake up and it'll be a new battle and you're just like
going to win some, you're going to lose some and every day it's
going to be a fight. And I was like, I was like, what
the heck? I was like, OK, I guess that
sounds correct. But like I was like, it's.
Kind of kind of hopeless at the.Same time, it really made me
feel good, you know, and I didn't really realize that

(17:53):
though. So at that time I just thought
like, OK, I just got to try my best to keep winning these
battles, you know? And then I talked to him,
Apollo, and he's like, no, he's like bro, he's like Jesus like
wants to set you free. Like he wants to break those
chains, you know, and that like really encouraging.
He's giving me scripture on it and stuff.
And I was like, I was like, well, that, that sounds way
better, you know? And so then I got like this, I

(18:15):
don't know this new encouragement.
And so I started reading these scriptures more.
I started memorizing verses, which was a big thing because I
feel like Christians like we know to read the Bible, we know
to go to church, we know to pray, you know, but like nobody
ever like I've never heard to like memorize scripture.
That's good. And so I started memorizing
scripture and like, bro, that that helped so much.

(18:36):
Like in terms of just like sharing the gospel with people,
you just have verses coming to you in terms of like facing
temptations, you know, like whenJesus was in the wilderness, you
know, Satan, like, yeah, memorizing scripture is such a
big thing. Anyway, So I was hyped up.
I I was thinking like, can Jesuslike really set me free and

(18:58):
stuff? And so I went to this bachelor
party for my brother-in-law and everybody was on a deck, like
smoking and drinking and stuff. I was like, oh, I could go out
there and hang out, but I was like, I just felt like I didn't
I, I shouldn't, you know? And so I went into my bedroom
instead when like usually I would have gone out there and I
opened, I brought a Bible. So I opened my body, started
reading, and the first thing I read was for freedom.

(19:21):
Christ has set you free. Therefore, stand firm and do not
submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Come on. And I was like, like, all of a
sudden, like the, the frigging and the Holy Spirit hit me, you
know, I was like, I was like, whoa.
And I read it again because like, that was exactly what I
was thinking about the past, like the weeks leading up to
that, you know, And so I was like confirmation, like Jesus

(19:41):
wants to set me free from lust and stuff.
And so that was like, that was another that boosted me again,
gave me more encouragement, you know, And so ever since that
day, I think that was a really big turning point for me.
And yeah, I just been trying to like reading the Bible every day
is such a big thing too. Bro, I love what you said about
memorizing scripture because I II still have this memorized.

(20:04):
So this day and it still is comecomes up.
I don't know if you can see it on the screen.
Job 31 one, I made a covenant with my eyes to not lustfully to
not look lustfully at a young woman, right.
And so that that like that's oneof those verses where I think
about. I made a covenant with my, with
my, you know, it's a not like lust for that.

(20:26):
Another one I've never heard. I don't think I've heard that
first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That, that there's, there's power in memorizing scripture
and and I memorized this, gosh, 25 years ago, 20 years ago,
something crazy like. And so the having that recall to
be able to memorize scripture and then declare scripture when
you're tempted is super powerful, man.
And so it's, it's refreshing to hear you talk about it because I

(20:47):
don't think we prioritize memorizing scripture enough.
You know, I, I especially if you're dealing with porn or if
you're dealing with stuff that'skeeping you in bondage, doesn't
have to be porn. I mean, it could be like lately
I've been dealing with intrusivethoughts a lot, right?
Like, just like, man, how did I,why am I thinking that?
You know, And so it's like memorizing scripture, right?

(21:07):
Hold every thought captive, right?
Don't conform to the ways that world would be transformed by
the renewing of your mind, right?
Romans 12/1. And there's some there's some
power and just saying scripture when confronted with temptation,
especially where you don't always have the ability to know
where, why you feel a certain way, you know, like you may not

(21:29):
be able to process, like why is this a temptation or why is this
a struggle right now? But scripture, I think is a
great antidote for that. So that's that's, that's dope,
man. So it's so in you, in you
memorizing scripture, you started kind of finding freedom
is that is that. Yeah, And it just, it made me
want to read the Bible more and,and like learn more.
And then that kind of spiraled into like sharing the gospel,

(21:51):
which is also a huge thing for me.
Like you don't really realize, like seeing other people come to
Christ is also like, like you learn a lot from that.
Yeah. You know.
Yeah. And so I started like 10 months
ago now, I started my own men's Bible study because one thing,
one thing God has blessed me with, and I'll say this proudly,
is like, I have so many friends and it's like, I would love to

(22:14):
hang out with each and every oneof them and make time.
But it's like, it's hard becauseI have a family, I have music,
you know, it's like, I, I can't do that.
So I was like, you know what, I feel like God gave me the idea
to like start a Bible study and just invite all my friends there
every week, you know? And so I started it and there's
one, there's a lot of cool stories that have happened with
it, but one in specific, which was like pretty eye opening to

(22:35):
me is I was at church, I was in the lobby after church and I, I
walked past this guy. He looks around my age.
He looks kind of anxious and like lonely.
And I'm like, oh, I should turn around and talk to him.
You know, I didn't really want to, I was like, I'll do it.
So I turn around, I go talk to him.
I'm like, hey, bro, what's your name?
He's like Josh. I'm like, how old are you?
He's like 26, which is my age. I'm like, oh, cool, bro.

(22:58):
I was like first time here. He's like, yeah, he's like, I'm
just trying to make like new friends and stuff.
And the day after that, the, theMonday after that was going to
be my first Bible study where I invited all my friends.
I was like, well, you know what?I was like, if you want to like
make new friends, I was like, you should come to my Bible
study tomorrow. He's like, OK.
He's like, yeah, maybe. And he was like, he didn't
really want to go either, but heended up coming and he's super

(23:19):
anxious, super nervous, didn't talk a lot.
Is it is that your home or wheredo you guys?
Make it. We met under, it's called the
Mission Bridge. OK.
Yeah. So like in my town, there's a
big bridge and there's like a beach under it.
And so, so we'd meet there and there was five of us and it was
pouring rain. It was super loud under the
bridge. I don't realize how loud the
bridge was going to be. And it was freezing.

(23:39):
And we didn't have chairs. We had nowhere to sit.
So it was like, it was awful conditions.
But he came and I guess he likedit enough, so he came again and
we learned to bring chairs and start a fire and all that stuff,
which is good, we learned. To bring chairs and start a
fire. I love it.
And then, yeah, people, more people started coming, which is
really cool to see it. Anyways, he came to like every

(24:02):
Monday for, I want to say like seven months, OK.
And I just like over time, bro, he started talking more.
He started like working out. He quit weed.
He quit all these things. And I was like, I was just like,
whoa, like this guy's like his entire life is changing, you
know? And then after seven months of
going about, he was like, bro, I'm going to get baptized.

(24:22):
Can you baptize me? And I was like, I was just like,
Dang, yeah. Like, that was, that was so cool
to see him as like, like, like he's thinks that I did a lot for
him, but it's like, I think he'sdoing more for me almost like
just witnessing, like how much has changed his life, you know?
Like, it's that was so cool. And that was my first time
baptizing somebody, too, which is awesome.

(24:45):
And the day that he got baptizedwas like, I think he was 150
days sober from weed or something.
Yeah. So he announced it to the
congregation. Everybody is hyped up.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's dope. You know, one of the things you,
you mentioned, like you're in the season, you're 26, wife,
kid, you guys have one kid, right?

(25:05):
Yeah. What I think people also forget
is how difficult it is to maintain community as you get
older and into that season of life and how much the consistent
rhythm of having a weekly men's Group, A weekly Bible study
helps you stay anchored, obviously in your faith in

(25:28):
Jesus. But also people say just as a
human, because you go, you come out of the season of high school
in college. If you go to a college or, or
you're in that season where you don't have a lot of
responsibilities, you can kind of do what you want.
You can't get your friends do whatever you want, right?
And then you, you enter adulting.
You enter like, hey, I'm, I'm married now.
I got a kid, I got a job, I got a career, I got things I'm

(25:49):
responsible for. And you have to be so
intentional to fight for community.
And the beautiful part about thechurch is that it builds in
those natural rhythms that I think we as humans desperately
crave. And it's transformative.
Yeah. So there's like so many
practical pros of that. You know, I, we have a, a, a

(26:10):
like a small group of guys that come over on Saturday mornings
and. And it's the, it's the same
thing. We're all kind of in similar
seasons and similar ages and it's so life giving to just be
able to have that rhythm every single.
Yeah, let each other be encouraged by each other's
faith, right? It's yeah.
When I, cuz like I said, I, I went to public school, so I had

(26:31):
no Christian friends. And the first time I was like
surrounded by Christians was when I went to this summer camp
that I volunteered at. And I remember like, yeah, I
also was like super encouraged just by hanging out with people
who had similar beliefs. You know, I was like, that also
was a big kick start to me growing closer to God.
Yeah, community is so important.Yeah, yeah.
Now, OK, Now tell me, tell me this.

(26:51):
So in terms of you, you love to share the gospel, you're in a
local church, you're discipling people, You're you're baptizing
people. Like you're seeing the hand of
God move. How does that work with your art
and the music that you're making, Right.
Because I think there's nothing wrong with making music from the

(27:14):
church for the world, right? So it's like, Hey, I'm AI love
Jesus and I'm going to make something wholesome that the
world can take. And I'm I, I may plant seeds a
little bit or maybe I don't really talk about it all.
But then they discover my life where they watch this podcast
and they discover that you love Jesus and then that that becomes
those seeds planted. Because again, it's similar to

(27:35):
to Jake, right? Like some Jake people don't
really know Jake's a Christian unless you're like really in in
his ethos and in this world. And then you start discovering,
oh, he has a song of force, Frank.
And he has this, he has that. And so it's like you're kind of
in a similar place where like you don't lead with, you know,
Christian artists, Christian rapper.
Yeah. But the the deeper people go.
And is there any is there any shift you're feeling where like,

(27:58):
maybe I do want to talk about myfaith a little bit more.
Yeah. You know.
Yeah, No, that's a good question.
I've been thinking about this lately because I think I think a
lot like the more, yeah, the more that people find out about
my faith and stuff that I'll seecomments sometimes being like,
why don't you make like a worship album and all this
stuff? And I feel like people expect
like, if you're a Christian, expect worship music, you know?

(28:20):
And so I think a lot of people might disagree with how I go
about it. But like, I really, I'm really
trying to stay open to the Holy Spirit, right?
And just follow what God wants me to do.
And yeah, there's kind of a couple things.
First of all, I just like naturally for some reason, I'm
just like making sad music is like what I'm really good at,
you know, and like deathbed, I had no idea how big that was

(28:43):
going to do. And I feel like it's like it's
impossible to make a song that big, you know, like over 2
billion streams is wild. And so I feel like God blessed
me with that. You know, I feel like that's
like a sign from God And so manypeople have come to Christ
through like, I like in my DMS, I'll get people singing like

(29:04):
that they've started following God because of me and stuff.
You know, it's like, that's likethat's the best thing I want to
hear. And yeah, I don't think they
would have found that if I didn't make that.
Like they would have found it ifI didn't make deathbed, you
know, and deathbed, I talk aboutlike heaven and things.
I don't actually think it's really a yeah, I don't actually,

(29:25):
I don't know if it's like a Christian song.
Like the way that I talk, I forget how I talk about heaven,
but it's like, because in, in, in heaven, there's no marriage,
right? Like that's what Jesus says.
So that might actually have beenbad, but but yeah, now, like
when I started making music, it was like just depressing music
because I, I listen to depressing.
Like I listen to Little Peep andX and and these guys and like

(29:48):
that's what I wanted to make. I just wanted to, I just wanted
to blow up for making sad music,you know?
And so it's really depressing. And, but yeah, as I grew closer
to Jesus, I started making sure that like, there's hope in my
music, you know? And so now I really try to never
make just like a depressing song.
Like I, I always want to end it with like, oh, I'm, I'm trying
harder or I'm trusting in you orGod, I know you're going to help

(30:11):
me, you know, things like this. And yeah, I don't know.
I love sad. Like I, I used to watch a lot of
sad movies, like romance and stuff and like, I just love
feeling emotions, you know? And when I listen to a happy
song, it's a lot harder for me to feel like emotions.
Interesting. Yeah.
Was there a time where you were depressed and dealing with

(30:33):
anxiety and it's the overflow ofthat?
Uh huh. I right after I graduated high
school, I mean in high school, Ihad really bad anxiety.
Like I, my head would always shake whenever there's like a
camera on me. I remember in my grad photo, I
was like trying to stay still. I was so embarrassed because my
head was like this, which was really weird.
And then after high school, I hated my job.

(30:54):
I was working at a bakery and I don't think I realized it was
anxiety at the time, but my stomach was like really bad and
I had to go to hospital because I was getting like constipated
and I had no idea why. I was like working out.
I was trying to eat healthy, allthese things.
And looking back, I think it wasI was just anxious.
And yeah, then I went to that summer camp.
I quit the job. I was like, God, I want to just

(31:15):
like do something crazy for you.So I went to the summer camp,
but I knew nobody there. And that was like a big a big
change for me. So, yeah, I was when I started
making music, I was not in a good place.
That's. That, that that's so it's so
interesting that you have a, youhave a Christ foundation, yet
you know, you're, you're, you'rehaving some degree of anxiety,

(31:39):
depression that you're wrestlingthrough.
And then you, there's the, the, the, the stuff that's happening
in the world is the little peep and the XXX, the DAC on which is
tragically they both passed right And they were kind of the
voice of like that, like sound end of the SoundCloud

(32:00):
generation. I don't even know what we would
call that right, because it's not quite SoundCloud, but it's
like a it was like a moment where a lot of the stuff that
was popular was very sad music and they both tragically pass.
How how do those two things affect you?
When when those two fast as as someone that was influenced by
them. Yeah, The thing is, is I I like

(32:20):
their music, but there was otherartists, like there's this one
artist in Gucci High waters and he was like, he's underground.
He actually like made beats for X and stuff.
And I listened to him a lot and I didn't really listen to the
mainstream guys as much. So I was definitely sad.
Like when Little Peep died, I was like, whoa, that's crazy.
Yeah, it's definitely sad. It's it's just for me, it's like

(32:44):
sad thinking, like hearing theirmusic and how like evil it is
and then knowing they passed away, you know, it's like, I
hope they found Jesus, but it's like who, who knows, you know?
It was almost like the music waslife imitating art, you know,
like it probably started out as art reflecting life and then
life started imitating art because it then it just became a

(33:06):
feedback loop, you know, in bothsides with peeps specifically in
terms of his bout with addiction, you know, and then
that became and then with X, like it's like just straight
like ego and violence and just just super sad stuff.
But I say that to say that like that, those two situations and
you're saying that they influence you to a various

(33:26):
degrees. And then the producer that would
produce facts. But like there's a, there's a
similar aesthetic to your stuff,but yet you're like, but I want
to have hope in it, you know, because it becomes relatable to
folks that are probably dealing with the same stuff you were
dealing with, you know, but it doesn't lack redemption and hope
the way most of the mainstream stuff does.

(33:48):
Yeah, I think God really used itfor good, you know, like how he
how he can use what what the devil intended for evil, he can
use it for good. And I think I was making like
not good music at that. Like when I started, you know,
and then deathbed, like I feel like I kind of that's when I
kind of started going around that time and that one blew up.
And like, yeah, I think, I thinkI, yeah, I just really, I don't,

(34:12):
I feel like God has put a lot ofwhat's it called?
I forget the word wisdom, discernment.
I have a lot of so annoying. Like I have to live up like a
lot of not pressure, but like heexpects a lot from me, you know,
with how big the song went and and how much music I'm able to

(34:34):
make and how I can live off of music.
Like, I just feel like I have to, if I don't give back to God
like I am, I'm just, I'm a, I'm a failure brother.
Like I, I have to, you know, because he's giving me so much.
And yeah, so if, if he, if I felt the Holy Spirit told me to
start making worship music, I, Ireally believe I would, you

(34:55):
know, and I am, I'm, I'm prayingabout it and I'm reading about
it and I want whoever's listening to pray about it too,
you know, but I really feel likemaking the music I'm making has
like brought so many people to know Jesus, you know, and if I
was making worship music, it's like, I guarantee a lot of

(35:15):
people would stop listening, youknow, and I'm not scared for
that. I know I'd get Christian
listeners and stuff too, but it's like there's already a lot
of worship music, you know, I feel like there's not a lot of
artists who like, I'll post Bible verses, I'll talk about
God openly that I'm doing this podcast, you know, I'm not
afraid to talk about God. But yeah, I still feel, I still

(35:38):
feel pushed to make the music that I'm making.
Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's good,
man. That's and that's a good tension
and a good way for you to re evaluate those things because
again, I think we need Christians in the world, like we
need Christians who have predominantly non Christian
audiences. And again, what's refreshing is

(35:58):
that you don't, you don't like suppress this, You're not afraid
of it. You're just like, yeah, like
I'll talk about my faith. And you've been fairly, I mean,
when we first connected was 4-5 years ago and you were talking
about your faith back then, you were talking about posting Bible
verses, all sorts of stuff. What were there ever times in
the industry where you were toldor felt like or or subtly that
like, Hey, you got to tone it down a little bit on your

(36:19):
socials with this Jesus? Stuff, yeah, I find it's, I find
this whenever you get like political, which is
understandable. And I, I just don't talk about
politics at all anymore because I really don't care.
I don't think if I change somebody's mind on a political
issue, it's like they still don't know Jesus, you know?
So I was like, yeah, might as well know Jesus and then have
your political views change after that, you know, like Jesus

(36:40):
is what matters, you know? And so when I, when I first
went, that's the first job when I was with Columbia, like made a
post about a board and they're like, you got to take that down.
And I didn't because I feel likeit would be bad if I did.
But. Perhaps you for not taking it
down? Yeah.
Thank you. Yeah.
That's the issue that I hear you.

(37:04):
I don't, I don't, I don't think that's political.
Like I think we've made it. We've allowed it to become
political. When I say political, I mean
just smaller, like just biblicalarguments, I guess, you know,
compared to compared to just thegospel.
Like I just, I just want to focus on sharing the gospel,
especially because a lot of the people that listen to my music

(37:26):
don't know it, you know? And so every time I post, I just
want to, yeah, I don't want to push people away from me having
arguments about these little things, you know what I mean?
I just want to focus on that. Yeah, that that makes sense.
I think that the the interestingpart about the gospel is it's
like it's downstream effects on everything.
Yeah, right. And how it does impact
everything I in 2022 when the Supreme Court overturned Roe V

(37:52):
Wade, I put up a video that I didn't know went viral on on
Twitter or X. And like, I had multiple, I had
AI had a specific close friend that like sat me down and like
confront me, confronted me and was like, you've gone on the far
right and, and you're, you know,and I'm like far right, like you
don't know what the far right is.

(38:12):
This is a pretty main line position.
I would love to get into it withlike Christians, like if
somebody knows their gospel, I'll, I'll talk about those
smaller things because now I think we can, you know.
Yes, yes. So this was a Christian friend,
like a close friend, Yeah. And he felt like the unborn was
a political issue in it. And so we ended up having a
really interesting conversation.So anyway, I say all that to say
that like props to you for posting that at a time where I

(38:38):
think America, I can't speak forwhat's up, what's up in Canada,
but I think America is definitely kind of shifted more
on some of these things. But I agree with you in that at
the end of the day, like you canhave the right philosophical
views or political views or cultural views and still miss
Jesus and still miss the Gospel.So like our goal is to be
ministers of reconciliation, ambassadors for Christ to

(39:02):
persuade people on the about thegospel, not to get them to come
over to where I am on that. I think that's a byproduct of
it. So like if someone's
regenerated, born again, usuallythey, they'll, they'll slowly
shift and come around. Like I I, I knew that like when
I came to faith in Jesus, I was fornicating, I was sexually
immoral, but something like literally virtually open that I
knew that like before Christ, ifI got my girlfriend pregnant, an

(39:25):
abortion was an option. After Christ, I knew all the
sudden it wasn't an option and that no one, no one told me
that. No one sat me down and was like,
hey, you know, I just knew, you know.
And so I think you're right in that like, if we can persuade
people to Jesus, usually the rest of their worldview falls in
line over time, sometimes instantly, sometimes not, you
know, So I think you're spot on about that.

(39:46):
But again, kudos to you for not backing down.
And and you ended up, you said leaving that post up.
You didn't take it down. Yeah, that's pretty gangster.
Thank you. What was?
What was the? What was the language like?
What would they tell you? But I don't remember exactly.
I just remember they said, hey, you got to take that down.
I was like, no. And that was it.
Yeah. I just, I don't want people
telling me I don't want to change my stance on anything

(40:08):
because somebody told me to, youknow?
Yeah. Yeah, that's dope.
So the music continues to evolvenow is different than Deathbed.
What is the in between season been like you get married, you
have a kid, right, You re sign with Columbia for I'm assuming

(40:29):
like another project and that second time around it sounds
like you kind of have a bit of achange of heart.
Yeah, so yeah, I Columbia, one thing I realized is they really
wanted me to just have another viral song and they didn't
really care how it happened. Like I remember they wanted me
to post like super cringy trending TikTok things and.

(40:51):
They were trying to get you to do dances and stuff.
Yeah, And literally anything that would give views, even if
it was like, even if it made me look bad or if it went against
like my aesthetic, they still want me to do it because there's
a chance it could blow up. And then a song would blow up,
you know? And it's like, I just realized
they're not in it for the long haul.
They just want that quick super big song.
And it's like, if I get a quick super big song, it's like,

(41:15):
that's great. But like now I look like a, a
goof because my style and I just, I'm cringe.
Like, you know, it's just like they're ruining me.
They're ruining my career just to get a big song.
So I was really sick of that. And it's like I was saying
earlier, it's really hard to tell like what they were doing.
Like I don't know how they were helping.
Like I live up in Canada too, where like there's not really

(41:37):
any artists out there. And so it's, it's, I don't know,
I felt like it was just me doingthe work and they were taking a
big cut because I think they're taking 70%, you know?
Jeez, yeah, that's a lot. I think that's like the common
for major, major deals. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, gosh, that's a lot, man, 70% I would, I would

(41:58):
think that with someone who had the momentum in the in the, in
the buzz that you had that it would be more of like a
partnership. It would be like a 5050 at
least. Yeah, I know.
I think, yeah, major labels is almost always 7030.
I'm pretty. Sure.
Jeez. Yeah, that.
Now that makes sense. So how are you utilizing

(42:19):
socials? Like how do you see socials?
Right, Because I'm, I'm totally with you.
I think the idea of like just chase a hit, just chase a hit,
chase, chase a hit. You know, I'm like, yeah, but
then you can look mad cringe andcorny if you're just chasing a
hit versus like, hey, I'm going to make what I want to make.
I'm going to do all the inputs. You can't recreate a moment like

(42:39):
deathbed. Like you can't.
There's no formula to that. I guess it's something some,
some of that is probably the Lord, even though you had the,
you know, the, the line about marriage in heaven or whatever.
And, and some of that is just timing some of that.
There's so many intangibles in that.
And yeah, I think that that thatmentality is so shallow.
Whereas like you have depth to your art, Like there's, there's

(43:00):
you're telling and talking aboutstuff that's that's interesting.
But So what is your relationshiplike with social media now and
leveraging and marketing and storytelling?
Yeah, this this year I actually like I really sat down and
thought about what I want to do.And it's kind of like what
you're saying, like deathbed. I feel like it blew up because
it's just me making exactly whatI want to hear and what I want

(43:21):
to do and what felt natural, youknow, and I think that's the
reason it did really good. And that's what I want to like
continue do is to do is just like make what I think is cool.
And even if it gets 10 views, like at least I'm proud of it,
you know? And I'm not like, because
there's been times where I've made a post where I'm like, oh,
this might do bad, but there's achance it'll blow up, you know?

(43:42):
And like, I'm kind of, I don't really like to post myself, but
like, I'm doing it because it'llget views.
And then I post it and like, it doesn't get views.
And now I'm like embarrassed, you know?
And I delete it. And it's like, it's just like,
why am I doing that? Like I'd rather just like work
hard. So I bought myself a camera this
year, like a good one. I learned how to film.
I started like shopping. I never bought myself clothes

(44:02):
before. So I started going thrifting a
bit and just getting clothes that I like to wear that I think
are cool. And it's like now I have, I have
the clothing, I have the camera,I have, I've been using the
nature where I live because we have huge mountains up in
Canada. And I feel like that's like,
that's one way I see God very clearly.
And it's one thing I really wantto incorporate to my lofi music,
you know? And so I'm just like, I'm going

(44:24):
100% on literally every aspect. So if it fails, I don't even
care because I've, I've tried myhardest on everything, you know,
Yeah. And yeah.
So if you like if you guys look at my my latest videos on
Instagram, like I tried hard on every one of them.
I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This. We'll, we'll we'll pull some of
it. Hopefully you don't hit us with
the copyright on these. Oh, this is beautiful.

(44:48):
What are you shooting on? I got a Sony A-6700.
OK, yeah, yeah, I literally I'llwalk into the forest.
And this is you. You set the camera up yourself.
You shot this yourself? Yeah.
Wow. Is that live audio or is that
just a track? Oh yeah, yeah.

(45:08):
Just a track, yeah. And you did the captions of
these two. Yeah, that's fire, dude.
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, it seems like
they're performing well. 2000 likes you know.
They're actually not performing well.
I mean, I mean relatively speaking, you know, so I don't
know what you, so this isn't, this isn't performing well.
Yeah, no, like last year I'd sayI was averaging like over

(45:30):
100,000 views probably on each reel.
And now they're around like 50,000.
And so it's it's not doing as good.
But like, like I said, I don't, I don't even really care like if
you go up to the top and hit my reels.
Yeah, I'm going to put this backon the screen, Zach.
All right, Yeah, the top right one I filmed the other day is.

(45:51):
That this one, yeah, yeah, 33,000.
Yeah. They can hear the audio by the
way. OK, I.
Can't find? Yeah.
So it's just like. I mean like, props to you for
learning to shoot. Thank you.
You know, shout out my friend Caleb Airport.
He he got me on it. Yeah, it looks great.

(46:13):
Yeah, so I don't know, bro, I just, I just want to do what I'm
doing. And I, and the cool thing is the
more people I meet, bro, you start to realize how special
everybody is, bro. Like everybody has like
something that nobody else has, you know?
And so it's like, I feel like that can come out in art, which
is really cool. So I maybe I'll see something in

(46:34):
the forest and nobody else will.And so it's, it's, it's really
cool to me that I can film that,you know, and post it and maybe
other people will like it, who knows?
How how long does it take you toshoot these?
That top left one took me maybe 30 minutes.
This this took you 30 minutes. Yeah.
And and and you did all this yourself.

(46:56):
You set the tripod up. You got all the shots.
That's that's dope, dude. Thank you.
Sorry if you relate to these lyrics and you did these
captions yourself. Yeah, yeah, this is the most sad
song on the album. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome, man.
Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, props to
you for I talk about this in my in my book, not to make it about

(47:16):
my book, but I'll get you a copy.
I talk about the idea of skill stacking, you know, so you, you,
you have a basic skill set of like, oh, I could record my
music. I can, I can you, you use logic,
I can produce, I can mix, right.You mix your own music and then
you take that and you say, OK, I'm going to stack on top of
that, which what do you, what isthat?
Oh, I'm going to pick up a camera.
So now you just added a whole new skill set and people will
talk about the 10,000 hour rule,which is true.

(47:39):
If you're going to spend 10,000 deliberate hours to become an
expert at something. Here's a flip side of the 10,000
hour rule. There's a book written that
describes how you can become proficient at something.
What about 20 hours of deliberate focus, right?
So it's like people here at 10,000 hours like, oh, I'm never
going to have 10,000 hours to make.
It's like, but if you spend 20 hours of deliberate focus, you

(48:01):
can actually shoot pretty dope video.
You can learn an instrument, youcan learn to produce, you can
learn to video edit. And so you took the skill of
saying, hey, I'm going to, I'm already a proficient rapper.
I'm a proficient producer. I'm a proficient mixer.
I'm going to add video on top ofthat.
I'm going to add shooting on topof that.
And now you just doubled up yourentire skill set, you know, and

(48:21):
you can keep stacking additionalskills with that.
Acting's next. Acting's next.
Let's go, let's go. So you're doing additions and
stuff like that. Not yet.
I've just been doing lessons like learning the fundamentals
and it's been really cool because it's like they're not
really like actors aren't reallylike my type of crowd I hang
around with, you know? So I was, I was in a course with

(48:43):
five other actors who've been doing it.
And it was so like, I've not my element, you know, like sitting
in the room and like, they're all watching me in front of this
camera, like play a role is it'sreally uncomfortable.
Yeah. But like, that's how you know,
you're, you're growing, you know?
Are you doing it remotely or areyou going in person?
It's in Vancouver so I drive like an hour out to.
It how often you go. It was a course that I did, so I

(49:06):
went like 10 times maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The the cool thing about even just you saying like acting is
next. You know what?
You know, the cool thing about this is so many of us, and not
to sound like super like self helpy and new agey or whatever,
that's how it goes up. Like so many of us have so many
limited beliefs of what we can and can't do.
And it's not to say that like you picking up acting is you're
going to be this next mega moviestar, but it's the fact that

(49:28):
you're willing to step out and say, I'm going to try something,
right? I'm going to, I'm going to try
to add something. I just got back from Waco.
My buddy Jonathan Precluda took me through this preaching cohort
where it's like, Hey, I want youto be a good communicator.
Like I want you to be able to preach.
Well, you know, and it's not. And then like when I was with
Wes, like Wes taught me keynote,right?
And so like within the last six months, me as a communicator on

(49:51):
a platform, I'm way better than I was last year, you know, and,
and I and I just wonder like if we as creative people just kept
adding new stuff. Like you're like, Hey, I want to
learn piano. It's like you can totally learn
piano. You can learn, preferably learn
piano in a month, you know, or to be be able to be good enough
to play on your own beats. And I just wonder how many

(50:11):
people like, just limit themselves by saying, Ah, that's
not my thing. I'll never learn that.
Oh, I'll never be good enough. But you're like, Nah, like I
learned how to use a camera and now you're shooting beautifully
shot reels that look cinematic, you know, and it's like, that's
dope. You know, that's dope.
Do you think that what do you think that that comes from for
you to be able to like, no, I'm just gonna pick something up and

(50:33):
and and figure it out. I mean for The thing is, is like
these skills that I'm picking up, they they kind of tie into
music right Somewhat, you know, so it's like I'm not jumping to
a completely like construction, you know, sure, cuz I would take
a feel like a lot more hours of learning and practicing things.
Yeah, less. Transferable things if you were
to pick up carpentry, yeah. Yes, yeah.
But like filming is like I've seen, I've seen what videos I

(50:56):
like thousands of times, you know, I've, I've filmed on my
iPhone a bunch of times. I've filmed with other films.
It's like it's something that I'm, I'm already introduced to.
So I feel like learning that waseasier than most people.
Same thing with piano. It's like I've played other
instruments, I've sang, I've heard piano, you know.
So yeah, it's like it's things that I I'm trying to be smart

(51:16):
with what I'm learning next, youknow?
What what I think is cool about your music, the fact that it's
melodic, it's introspective, there's depth to it, there's
legs to it, is that I think thatyour long hauled career is going
to be something that continues blossoming over time, right?
So I think like, yeah, you're right.

(51:38):
Like the label just needs another hit, but you might need
to put out what you want to put out, and there may or may not be
another moment, but that's fine because you're not chasing a
moment. That's that's another thing too
that that you just brought up islike, I could, I could be
posting this really good contentfor like 2 years and nothing
will happen. But when something happens now

(51:59):
these people have two years of great content to look at, you
know, that's right. And it's like that's, I think
that's way more important instead of just posting one off
video, you know? Yeah, and the cool part is, I
mean, you, you have an audience that you're starting with,
right? So you have half a million
Instagram followers. You have a couple big records
behind you. Yeah.
So it it's only a matter of timeuntil something catches.
Yeah. And if it doesn't like it's fine

(52:22):
it it, it'll be good, you know? Do you ever feel any pressure
personally to recreate the deathbed moment?
No, definitely not OK. It's when I when I was younger,
I think I might have had a little bit of pressure like
that. And yeah, it's it definitely
doesn't feel good. This is for like every creator
influencer. Like when you start seeing your
followers dip or your views dip,it's like I feel like naturally

(52:46):
like, oh, I suck. Like people don't like me.
People are leaving, I'm going togo homeless, you know?
Like I feel like a lot of peoplehave that mentality and I
definitely had that a bit. But lately it's like I've
actually been like viewing it like more positive.
Like when I see my followers go down, I'm like, that's good bro.
Like those I don't want those people watching, you know?
Like I just want dedicated. I'd rather have 10 dedicated
fans than 1000 people who you know.

(53:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We, we, we, we joke around here,
we call, we call it like a, likea cleansing every, every couple.
Yeah, every couple months we'll essentially do a video.
Yeah, kind of push the people onthe edges out a little bit
because they're not really here for what we're trying to
communicate. Yeah.
No, that's good. Yeah, I think it's it's a good
thing. Yeah, OK, so tell me about the
project with Lofi Girl. Lofi Girl, for those of you guys

(53:31):
don't know, is a massive 15,000,000 subscriber YouTube
channel and they play these loops of lofi stuff.
One of them has been going since2022, a live series in 2022 and
You you you, a whole album just came out with them.
Yeah, which is super, super exciting because, yeah, the lofi
girl, they have like the biggestlofi community and like, I'm

(53:51):
known for lofi music, you know, And so I really just want to
like, capitalize on that genre and like, make the best lofi
cans. Let people, like, know what it
is, you know? And so I asked them if they went
to work together and they said yeah, which was super exciting.
And so they made, like, animations for each song.
There's seven songs on the album.
And it's my first time where I've sat down and I made an

(54:12):
album like start to finish. Like, usually I'll just focus on
a song and I'll have like a bunch of songs.
I put them into a project. But this one was like, I
purposely made like, this one here, this one here, this one
here. And they all flow into each
other. So if you listen to it from like
start to back, it's like it's just continuous.
Is it? Would you call it a concept
album? I don't know what that is.
Concept album is like there's a there's a theme or a concept

(54:34):
that glues the entire thing through like like a good kid.
Match City is a concept album. Kendrick Lamar Good.
Kid Match, Yeah, I would say it's a concept album.
Yeah, that's fire. And so tell me like what it what
is the story you're communicating?
It's basically like what I like.I just, I love like talking
about romance for some reason. And so it's basically like the
progression of like your, of somebody's love life.

(54:56):
So like, it starts with like thefirst time falling in love, then
like the feelings of butterfliesis the next song.
And then it talks about how likethe relationships kind of starts
crumbling. Then it talks about how you're
trying to stay together, but it's not working.
Then it talks about how after how to like move on and try to
start again, you know, and realize it's not not the end of
your life. And then it goes to there's this

(55:17):
song called a playful kiss. And it's just like trying to
find love again, but like you'renot, you're not seeking as as
hard, you know? And it's like you're, you're
more chill and taking it slower,you know, it's not as serious.
And then and then the last song is like when you're like, like
it's about like 2 old people, like in their 80s or whatever.
And, and the one of them is passing away.

(55:37):
It's a sad song, but I like. It Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I man I'll I'll be married 17 years next week.
Hey, Amen. We've been together total of 21
years. That's crazy.
And I I'm at that spot where I've been with my wife longer

(56:01):
than we've been apart. So, yeah, you know what I mean?
So when you talk about love and,and how love evolves and how
there's a there's a as an ebb and flow to it.
And then there's like a growing old and then there's like a just
a, just like a beautiful marriage that you're just
content, you know, each other. You're not trying to change each
other. You know, you're not trying to
be right. It's dope, man.

(56:22):
And, and and that's, that's interesting for you to tap into
these things. So when you're writing, how much
of this is from your own marriage?
Because you've been married a couple years now and you have a,
you have a family. And how much of it is again,
you're looking around, you're you're watching movies, you're
getting inspired, you're infusing this stuff And do you,
are you watching like ROM com and like the notebook and
whatever and trying to infuse that into the vibe?

(56:45):
I I used to watch them a lot, like I love those like classic
movies, but lately I I haven't been watching.
I actually quit video games too,which is like a big thing
because I've, I've been a gamer like my whole life and for the
past, yeah, I don't know. This past year I feel like I
haven't watched any TV, any movies, any gaming.

(57:06):
It's literally been hanging out with friends, hanging out with
family and working. And so like all those things, I
guess is what the inspirations come from.
The last show I watched, I thinkit was, was beef on Netflix.
OK, that one was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
So. It's, it's hard to know how much

(57:26):
is, is from my personal experiences and from others.
And I don't know, I, I literallylike, I don't even know where my
lyrics come from. I'll, I'll just sit down and I,
I literally, I just wait until something comes to my head or
I'll freestyle, you know, And it's like, it's almost, it's
hard to know, like how much of it is like spiritual, you know?
Yeah. Because when I'm freestyling, I

(57:47):
don't even know what I'm thinking.
Yeah. Do you think that there's been
new restraints you've had to create as you're growing closer
to Jesus in terms of the art, interms of stuff you can and can't
say? Yeah, definitely.
What are those? Cursing.
OK, I don't do that at all anymore.
I mean, I say, but I don't know.I I don't know that that was

(58:08):
like, that one doesn't mean anything to me.
Yeah. That's not a cuss word in
Canada. Yeah, I like my my whole family
said it growing up and like they're yeah, I don't know.
It's it just, it's not how? Often.
Are you saying that word? In the music I I definitely drop
it every once in a while. I haven't heard it any of the
new stuff that I listen to. So I'm, I'm just, I know, I

(58:30):
think you say it in Deathbed, but I don't, I don't, I didn't
hear any of the new stuff. I don't know if I do in
deathbed, Yeah. I probably don't say it a lot,
yeah. What else would you say you used
to curse more? Yeah, OK.
There's a there's a few songs where like I'll say the F word
and like, I can't do that anymore.
OK, why? It just, it feel, it feels weird

(58:54):
and it's, yeah, I don't know, itjust it doesn't, it doesn't feel
right. And then like I've never said
the Lord's name in vein. Like that's one thing I'm like
scared to do. I think that's maybe the only
restriction. I was never like over sexual in
my songs, which a lot of hip hopis nowadays like disgusting.

(59:14):
I think that's. It.
That's it. That's it.
So the line. I'll talk about like, like the
thing with my music is I like like I want to talk about real
life situations that people are in.
So like I have a song I just wrote where I'm like, I'm
talking with the perspective of,of being a homeless druggie.
And like one of my best friends was like in that situation.
And like, I took a lot of inspo from that, you know?
And it's like, like, I think some Christians be like, oh, why

(59:36):
are you talking about that? You know?
But it's like, these are like places that people are in, you
know? And like, it's a positive.
Like it's a sad song, but it's positive at the same time.
I'm talking about trying to get out of this, you know?
And so it's like, I feel like that's the type of music that
people relate to and are drawn to and people need to hear, you
know? Yeah, yeah, man, that's, that's

(59:57):
the boundaries around art is always interesting, you know,
for, for creative people with their with regards to their
faith and what and how and wherethe, you know, where the lines.
So it's it's good to hear that that those have evolved for you,
you know. So this this new project, what
was it like working with Lo Fi Girl and the whole team over

(01:00:17):
there? Yeah, they're really cool.
It took a bit longer than I expected.
Which which I wasn't used to because I'm so used to dropping
music very fast. What?
What? What about it took longer?
Do you? Think they were making the
animations and stuff and they also wanted to make merch and
stuff. So like, yeah, it ended up
getting pushed back a few months, but they were really

(01:00:39):
cool. They worked really hard and
they're excited for it too. And like now that it's coming
out it, it looks amazing so and I think it's my best project
I've ever done. And I know every artist says
that every time I drop a project.
I've I've never said it so I cansay it.
And this is the first time Lofi Girl has had vocals on this
stuff. Yeah.
So that's really cool too. Monumental.

(01:01:00):
Yeah. Yeah, man, yeah, I was looking
at you. You've shown me some of the
stuff on their YouTube channel and I was like, man, that's,
that's such an interesting, yeah, it's just interesting to
see like your stuff on their YouTube, you know, and then,
yeah, that, that, that that process is, is is super dope.
Now, how long did the whole project take?
To write. Yeah, to write record your

(01:01:21):
parts. I think it was like a month, OK,
maybe a month or two. And I was just, everyday I was
just working on the project, trying to get it perfect
sounding, yeah. Your creative process are you
usually first thing that comes out stays or would you say first
thing that comes out gets edited, gets reworked, gets

(01:01:41):
rerecorded? Like what is your actual Yeah
music making progress? Yeah, I, I'll put roughs like
I'll, I usually open the beat upin Logic and I'll, I'll
freestyle at first, see if I canget good melodies.
And if I can't get like melodiesthat I'm blown away with, then
I, I'll just scrap it. But what if I get good melodies?
Then I'll start writing, I'll open up notes and I'll record

(01:02:02):
rough, rough vocals of the lyrics.
And then, and then I just run itthrough and I, I put the
headphones on. I do the, the complete lyrics,
the, the professional ones. And then I'll like listen to and
I'll add more instruments or take away things and stuff like
that. Are you ever like going back and
rewriting specific lines? Punching.

(01:02:23):
Words sometimes, yeah, yeah, there's not a lot of it though.
I find I'm, oh, like I'm really strict.
Like I, it's very rare that I'lllike, write it where I'll write
down a lyric that I, I don't really like, you know, but I
like my wife. I, I'll go to her with
everything I'll be like, becauseshe's like, she's very critical,
which I like. And so if if she doesn't like

(01:02:45):
something, I'll probably change it.
That's awesome. What was it like doing the event
with Apologetics Canada? I know some folks are probably
familiar with them because of Wes Huff.
I was at their event. That's where we got to hang out.
That's where we went in person for the first time.
So that's super fun. And then was that your first
Christian show? Yeah, I've never sang on a

(01:03:06):
worship team. And I didn't even know I was
going to sing on the worship team until like the the few days
before. And I was like, oh, shoot.
So like I show up and there's a whole band performing and he's
like, yeah, hop on the mic righthere.
I'm like, uh oh. And then like I'm not the best
singer. Like I, I don't really know how
to harmonize and stuff. And so like, they're all like
sounding amazing. And I'm just sitting there and I

(01:03:27):
was like, I don't want to start singing.
I'm going to mess them all up. And so that was a little bit
nerve wracking. But then then on the day of the
actual performance, it was really fun.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Like worship is like.
So you just did worship or did you do a solo set?
I did a couple solo songs too. I played Deathbed on the guitar.
Deathbed and Deathbed Part 2. You played it.

(01:03:50):
You played it and and. And sang.
Wow. OK, that's fire.
And I've never done death but acoustic actually.
So that was the first time too. OK, so it was a it was a
learning day, so. You are part of the worship,
Yeah, and then you jumped on anddid a solo set.
Yeah. And then AQ and A as well.
That's super dope. Yeah, it was really cool.
There's like 400 kids, which I've never talked in front of

(01:04:10):
that many kids. And I felt like I still feel
like a kid, you know? I feel I relate to them in a lot
of ways, like in terms of video games and stuff, you know?
And so, yeah, I dropped a, I dropped a little bit about how I
used to preach, how I'm preaching the gospel in Call of
Duty. They seem to like that a lot.

(01:04:30):
That's awesome. Yeah.
You hoping to do more Christian stuff?
Christian Shows. Yeah, that would be awesome.
It's, yeah. The thing is, I don't make
worship music, so I find I probably won't get many
opportunities like that, you know?
But if they come, I'm taking. It let's got summit yeah we'll
get you out man yeah for sure I'll show you the venue and so
you're actually saying right by the venue did you see that

(01:04:52):
amphitheater outside I. Did I think there's a homeless
guy on it? Yep, there's a lot of homeless
guys so we're doing 3 days of conference stuff just like how
Projects Canada. Works like right under the
bridge, the pier. Yeah, the big pier, there's a
big amphitheater out there, right?
So that's where like Oceanside High School does their
graduation. So we're we're doing Thursday,
Friday, Saturday, and then Saturday night we're going to do

(01:05:16):
a big outreach concert. And the goal is to like, you
know, sometimes like I love likethe idea festivals and like
proclaiming the gospel, which isthe superfire.
But I think sometimes people don't consider like if you're
trying to reach non Christians, you probably don't want to just
hit them with worship music, youknow?
So I'm trying to strategically plan like my buddy Dustin
Tavella won America's Got Talent.

(01:05:36):
So he's just like he knows how to put on like a quote UN quote
secular show. And So what I want to do is
build out an event that slowly introduces the gospel and then
do a gospel presentation. That's.
Awesome. And with a response worship
time, you know, So anyway, we'lltalk about that, man.
Maybe we can have you out. I think that'll be super fire.

(01:05:56):
And it could kind of fuse together these different worlds
that you're in. Yeah.
You know, that'd be cool. Yeah.
Any, any final thoughts before we get out of here?
I think people hopefully feel like they got to know you a bit
more in this conversation. I just want to One thing I've
really been noticing and an example of this is I, I flew in
yesterday and I took a few Ubersand every time I'm an Uber, I, I

(01:06:19):
tried talking to the person. I think it's like a good time to
share the gospel, you know? And I was talking to three of
them and every one of them said they were Christian and all
three of them said that they don't really go to church.
And then I asked all three of them if they know the gospel.

(01:06:40):
And like, I'm just, I've been mind blown lately by like Ray
Comfort, especially like watching his videos, like seeing
how many people he goes up to and how many people like think
they know God or whatever. But like, bro, so many people
don't know the gospel. It's insane.
But I think as Christians, we just assume people know it.
Like, or if they've heard of Jesus on the cross, they know

(01:07:00):
the gospel. But it's like the gospel is like
separate. Like you have to understand why
Jesus died on the cross, you know?
And so like any Christians that are listening, like I just want
to encourage to share the gospelmore.
And like that sounds so, so basic, but it's like we don't do
it. And I, I asked each of them, I
was like, do you guys ever talk to people in your car about
Jesus? And the one guy, he said he was

(01:07:22):
a pastor from Turkey. And he said, he said, no, no,
no, no, people don't like that here.
I said what? I said, like, bro, that should
make you want to do it more. And then he told me he was like,
I recommend to you, don't, don'ttalk about Jesus to people in
California. I was like, I was like.
A pastor from. Bro, I'm not joking.
I was like, I was mind blown. I was like, I told him I was

(01:07:43):
like, bro, I was like, that is like the complete opposite of
what the Bible says. Like we got to be sharing with
everybody. And like, if people don't like
it, like I should be rejoicing, you know, like it doesn't matter
what people's reactions or what they want to hear is like, I'm
going to share it no matter what.
And it's just, yeah, I was mind blown.
So that was the first guy, second guy, I told him the

(01:08:04):
gospel because he said he didn'tunderstand it too well.
I shared it with him and he was super thankful and I felt like
he was very encouraged, which was awesome to see.
The 3rd girl, she was older and she was Christian.
She doesn't go to church so anymore she reads the Bible.
And I was telling her I was like, why don't you share the
gospel with people or in in the car?
She's like, I just, I don't feelit.

(01:08:25):
She was like, I don't feel like God ever tells me to share it
with people. And I think, I think that's
probably a lot of people where it's like, oh, I'll do it when I
feel like I should, you know, But it's like, what if, what if,
like you never get that feeling,you know, like sometimes I think
we have to be the ones to like, start it, you know, And like,
it's scary. And like, like, I understand
like follow the Holy Spirit. But also when Scripture clearly

(01:08:48):
tells you to be a light and to like share it to the edges of
the earth, you know, it's like, it's pretty obvious you should
be telling. And like when you have somebody
sit in your car, I'm not trying,I'm not trying to out Uber
drivers. It's like with anybody, but it's
like whenever you're like in a one-on-one situation, like, I
don't know, it's like, why not slip it in?
Why not start a conversation? Maybe it'll lead to it like at

(01:09:09):
least like try a bit, you know, and it'll get easier.
Like I understand it's scary. Like I, I recently started like
going onto the streets and St. preaching and it's like, it's
scary sometimes, but it's like the more you do it, the easier
it gets, you know? Yeah, that's fire.
Yeah, the the thing. So we're about an hour from the
airport. So if I, if I, if I am not
getting picked up, man, you get,you get an hour in the car with

(01:09:31):
somebody you know and you, you. That's perfect.
Like you can't ask for anything.You can share your test, you can
ask about their story, you can Share your story.
You can segue into the gospel. You can ask them if they've ever
heard the gospel. Like there's a lot you can do in
an hour. I'm just giving people some,
some practical stuff of like howhow to share the gospel.
Like let the person talk about themselves.

(01:09:51):
Everyone loves talking about themselves.
Share your story, you know, keepit brief and then segue into
sharing your testimony, share the gospel in that.
And then like ask, like, have you ever heard the gospel that
you understand that you just have for your sins, you know,
that sort of stuff? It's or on an airplane, You
know, airplane's a little trickier.
It's a little, the social cues are a little different because
some people, some people trying to sleep and relax, you know,

(01:10:13):
But yeah, in a, in a, in a Uber or Lyft, I mean, that's a,
that's a, that's a easy. One thing that helped me too a
lot is going back to the memorizing scriptures like
Romans has. Like I feel like that's the
perfect book for. Sure.
They call it the Romans Rd. for a reason.
Yeah, the Romans Rd. because it's like play on the world's
road. But there's like, you could walk
people through the passage. I don't know, through it.
Yeah, I think it's like Romans 316 and you could just kind of

(01:10:35):
walk people. Through it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, the first ones I memorized were three, 23623 and 10 nine.
And I used those three a lot since.
Yeah. It's like it tells the first one
is like it tells you you're all sinners.
We're on the same point, you know, and then how to how the
wages of sin is death but free gift of God is the eternal life
through Jesus Christ and then 10/9 is like how how to follow.

(01:10:56):
Jesus and if you confess with your mouth, believe in your
heart, Jesus Lord, you will be saved.
Yeah, yeah, man, that's awesome.That's all.
I think that's a good like encouragement and reminder for
people is like don't be too busyto see the opportunities in
front of you. Word up, man, dude.
Well, thanks for for being here,man.
Hopefully we do this again and hang out.
Enjoy your time in California. Thank you bro and.

(01:11:17):
Congratulations on a new project, Spotify, Apple Music.
Are you guys dropping any like vinyl or any physical?
Support For the first time ever I'm dropping vinyl because for
years people have been asking. Me.
What's the website? Oh shoot, it might be Lofi girl.
Just go to lofigirl.com. I think that might be it.
See if we just search lofi girl pofu vinyl.

(01:11:38):
The merch is Oh, the merch isn'tout.
Yeah, it's not public. Yeah, OK.
It hasn't been released yet. Oh.
OK, that's interesting. Well, by the time this is out
it. Edit a bit.
It'll be out, yeah. Word up man thank you for doing
this, but hopefully you do this again all right guys we're out
of here peace hey thank you so much for watching this video all
the way to the end. If you liked it then hit the
like button. If you liked it a lot and have a

(01:11:59):
thought to share, leave a comment.
If you are listening to this on the podcast app, make sure to
leave a review and you could even leave a comment over there.
And if you want to watch anothervideo that is recommended just
for you, this video over here, let me know if they nailed it.
Also, you could partner with us monthly, which helps us out a
lot in our monthly community. Get access to early drops and

(01:12:22):
all that kind of good stuff overhere.
All right, I'll see you over there.
Peace.

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