Is God's Judgment Coming Soon? Pastor Jack Hibbs

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
The legendary, if I may say so myself, Pastor Jack Hibbs.
Thank you so much for being here.
Pastor Jack Hibbs joins us now. But I do want to make sure I say
this every Sunday I watch Jack. This is a courageous man that is
doing so much for our country. And if we turn on Israel, I
think in short order you will see the hand of God's judgement

(00:21):
fall upon this Christ rejecting nation.
I have seen in real time while Iwas in Israel on an air base
when rockets were launched from southern Lebanon.
You brought up Trump. A lot of conversation, a lot of
hoopla around Christian. Nationalism.
The IDF is the most moral military that he has ever seen
on earth. And then when we say to them,

(00:43):
hey, you know what I don't know,I don't know what's going on
with Netanyahu. I don't know what's up.
But your prophets told me that God sets.
Up Hey, there's a difference between like, I think
everybody's like get the criminals out.
But when you're, you're hearing reports of like, hey, this
Abuela's been here for 20 years.They don't have a criminal
record. And it seems like some of those
folks are getting caught up. Bruce LON.

(01:05):
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description. Let's jump into this
conversation. All right, ladies and gentlemen,
you are in for a treat. We have another New York Times

(02:52):
best selling author. He has a podcast, a radio show.
He is a local church pastor of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills.
The the legendary, if I may say so myself, Pastor Jack Hibbs.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thanks. For.
Having me. All right, if you could pull
that microphone just a smidge towards you.

(03:14):
Yeah. There we go.
Yep. All right.
So man, we, we got a lot of stuff We're going to talk about
Israel, dispensationalism, Christian nationalism, all the
isms today. Let's do it.
OK. But before we jump into that,
for folks who are totally not familiar with who you are, I've
heard of of you for probably decades.

(03:34):
You pastor 14,000 people over atCalvary Cappuccino Hills.
I got actually a lot of friends that attend your church always
hearing great things. So just folks who may not know
who you are. Tell us a little bit about.
You. Yeah.
Just real quick. Born in San Diego, moved up to
Orange County when I was young. No God, no religion in our
family during the Jesus Revolution, the 70s wound up

(03:56):
going to Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa.
Chuck Smith was the founding pastor there.
Greg Laurie, the famous Greg Laurie would do Monday nights
and so I went to a Monday night service and I'll shorten this up
quickly heard the gospel for thefirst time in my life.
I was 19. I'll never forget it was June
20th, 1977 was a Monday night. Couldn't believe what I was
hearing. He actually taught a message and

(04:18):
Greg gave it to me later on in years and that message was
called how to inherit Hell. And I was just kind of going, I
was living it all out and I just, I was so convicted.
I was all of a sudden a room of 2000 young people.
I was all alone. I mean, I was nailed and I
didn't know what was going on. I had no Christianese happening

(04:38):
in my life. And so I, when he said, come
forward to give your life to Christ, I got to tell you, man,
I, it was a struggle because I immediately got up and I went
forward. But I looked around and
everybody was bawling and cryingand I wasn't.
And so I thought, what's wrong with me?
Did it not take? Did that not take?
But I believed everything I had heard and I knew it was guilty.

(04:59):
And so but lo and behold, I got to tell you within an hour, this
is how I knew I was different. My thoughts were different, I
thought in my mind, well I guessI better call my friends and
we'll go see what's what. The party is tomorrow.
And in my head, if this makes any sense, I didn't hear a
voice. I just knew inside.
We don't do this anymore. We just don't do this anymore.

(05:21):
The appetite was gone. That said, I just dove into the
Bible. You got to keep something in
mind, please. I stuttered profusely all my
life bad. So I dove into the Bible and
just studied it constantly and Iwent to every Bible class and
then I went to the Bible collegethat was on campus because I

(05:42):
could hide in the Bible and I didn't have to say anything to
anybody. I knew I had a new life.
But I got to tell you the the, the more that I acquired Bible,
the more I was blowing up on theinside.
I wanted to tell somebody Fast forward.
And again, I was able to, by God's grace, meet a young woman
on the beach. She was a great Baptist girl

(06:02):
from Anaheim, First Baptist. That was my wife Lisa, 4748
years ago met her. We've been married 47 years.
It would be this June. And amazing woman of God.
And so, yeah, my background is biomedical engineering.
I was working at Baxter Healthcare in Newport Beach, a
supervisor of a research lab. I love science and I was totally

(06:26):
content sharing the gospel the best I could with people.
And I was at a prayer meeting and this man said, he laid his
hands on me, really old man. And he said, God is calling you
into the ministry. And I thought, this guy's nuts.
I don't, I'm fine. And he doesn't even know that I

(06:46):
don't, I don't know how to talk because it's a prayer meeting.
I just, I was silent. And so he's saying what he said.
I thought that. Well, Yeah, right.
OK. Well, years went by and when we
moved out from Costa Mesa to Chino Hills, the Lord had
radically, I mean without any weird bells and whistles, the

(07:10):
Lord radically healed my tongue.An instant of time and I was
full of Bible and now I had a tongue.
If you if you have the time, go look at Mark Chapter 7.
There was a guy there whose tongue was bound and Jesus took
him off to the side and spit on his fingers and touch the man's
tongue and his tongue was loosed.

(07:30):
Man, when I saw the saw that in the Bible the first time, I just
broke down. I mean that was me in the Bible,
so to speak, 2000 years ago. And so that was it.
Was it like an instant instant. Healing.
Instant of your stutter instantly gone.
Instant there are no cameras, there's no nobody around was
instant. And so having the Bible in you,
I don't know if people realize this or not, but I think

(07:52):
Christians can get kind of that lazy to have the word in them
and not tell anybody. Let me tell you, if you can't
tell if you have the word in youand you cannot tell anybody, you
wish you could. And so when that happened, I
just exploded. And so when we moved to Chino
Hills, we asked some neighbors if they'd want to come to a

(08:13):
Monday night Bible study. So the first night they were
there were six of us, my wife and I and two other couples.
And it just started growing and growing.
And Chuck Smith at Costa Mesa said, you know, let's make that
a Monday night home Bible study from Costa Mesa.
So we did, and it just grew. We wound up having about 150
people on a Monday night. All packed into your home or did

(08:34):
you guys move on to a building? We had we actually packed them
into it wasn't my we had to moveover to another house that was
bigger. And then what happened was we
wound up having people in into homes nearby with, with those
days, big video cameras. We'd run a cord into other
rooms. It's crazy.

(08:55):
And then? You guys have the first multi
site, isn't that funny? And so my goodness, wow, 1993 is
when I retired from my job. I I resigned, I shouldn't say
retired. I've resigned after 13 years is
1 of the hardest things to do even though I knew I knew I was
supposed to do it. I loved my job and we we did

(09:18):
Sunday mornings and people showed up and they've been
showing up ever since and yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.
OK, so you're coming out of the Jesus revolution, the Jesus
hippie movement was this. Did you happen to ever be
around? Just probably a deep cut, but
Don Absher name some. Napster, the I don't know the

(09:39):
face, I know the name. Yeah, Don Napster was an elder
at our church out here for a while.
And so he's, Oh my goodness, he would always tell us the stories
of, yeah, the, the Jesus Revolution.
She's crazy. Monte Frisbee, Monte Frisbee.
The whole thing. You if you got to church one
hour before it started, you weretoo late.
You could not get in. It was amazing.
So what did you make of Pastor Greg's movie, The Jesus

(10:02):
Revolution? And like kind of living through
it, but then seeing it on a big screen.
Yeah, I mean, knowing that Greg's going to watch right now,
he's not going to be anyway concerned about what I have to
say. That was it was from Greg's
perspective. Here's the beautiful thing about
it all. We had our perspective and and
you got to remember there's 10s of thousands of people going
there. That was Greg's experience.

(10:23):
I, I just thought I, and I do think the world should know more
about, about Chuck Smith becauseGreg Laurie's ministry came out
of Chuck Smith. And to be honest with you,
Lonnie Frisbee's longevity was very short lived.
It wasn't long, but Greg's of course, and then Chuck Smith's

(10:47):
of course. But this was, as I like to say,
that was 1 reporter's opinion. Does that make sense?
Yeah. No, it totally makes sense.
I mean, I think the idea that you have this amazing movement,
the Calvary Chapel movement, which I'm a massive fan of, come
out of that connection between Lonnie and, and, and how all

(11:10):
that flew out was, was pretty incredible.
And seeing that on a movie screen and understanding that
many of the issues we're dealingwith today are similar to what
you guys were dealing with, it'spretty amazing.
It's odd you should say that. I've just, I just arrived to
your studio having spoken to 500pastors this morning in San
Diego. That's exactly what I just said.

(11:30):
They're all discouraged. They're all bummed.
And I said, what are you guys dragging your mug around for?
We should all get excited because I'm old enough to
remember how it was. And we're on the brink of that
again. The kids are disillusioned with
sex. They're burned out on it.
They're burned out on drugs. They're even burned out on
social media. They want meaning, they want
purpose. IE look at what's happened in a

(11:51):
post Charlie Kirk life. Kids are looking for purpose.
I tell you what, man, it is timeto present the gospel everywhere
at all times because kids are ready.
We're going to see it again. Amen.
I want to I want to kind of unpack some of that the
similarities and and are we in the middle of a great awakening?
But just a little anecdotal story for you.
I preached at my church a coupleweeks ago.

(12:12):
I go to rhythm church here in Oceanside where plant of North
Coast Vista. So Larry Osborne, Pastor Chris
Brandis, who planted us and I preached a couple weeks ago and
I was talking about hospitality and doing life on life.
And I said, you know, one of theaspects of our of our culture in
Southern California is that people sneak in church and sneak
out of church and you sit next to people every week.
You never say hello to anyone. And like, we have to do better

(12:34):
because the early church exploded because of hospitality
and relationship. And so we do a if I have more
time podcast with my pastor every every Monday, kind of
going deeper, if we if we had more time, this is what we were
talking about. So we're kind of having this
cultural conversation and like, man, this aspect of Southern
California, like we need to, we need to do better and we need to
equip people to be more hospitable and do life on life.

(12:55):
And it's not all about just Sunday morning.
Hopefully people are getting together.
So what we're having this whole conversation and my wife comes
home and she says, you know, so funny.
We just had to spend 20 minutes at the end of my women's group
having to tell two different women that you can't be sexually
immoral anymore. And they're, you know, one of
them is like, hey, I'm so looking forward to the weekend,

(13:16):
'cause I can go and hook up withsomeone.
And so they have to pause the Bible study.
Yeah. And explain to them, like, yeah,
fornication's out. Sexual morality is out.
All these things are out and so I'm texting my my pastor Jeff
and I'm telling and, and, and George and I'm like, it's so
funny. We're talking about hospitality
and being more friendly. There's people in our Bible
studies right now, that's right,that need to be told they can't
have sex. Exactly right.
Yeah, so, so this is like crazy.How, how how things are

(13:38):
changing? Well, and what your wife, what
you're talking about is the loving thing to do.
That is, you know, I, I, I'm sorry if I didn't offend
anybody, but people use the word, well, that's community.
Forget the word community that'sdoing church.
Church cannot be drive up, driveaway and I don't care.
Listen, I, I was saved in a gigantic church and it was never

(13:58):
big. I'll I'll tell you the reason
why and, and I encourage every big church, right?
By the way I'm I know this sounds crazy but I am anti mega
church and I happen to be a pastor of 1.
The pastor of mega church is theanti mega church folks.
You're here to hear first. I'm, I'm telling you right now
because listen, I grew up in a massive church and here's what

(14:21):
we did. We were encouraged to get out
and, and say hi to those that are around us.
Notice in every church, people kind of pretty much sit in the
same place every week man, that that is an open door.
Get their names, get there say hey, you want to go out to you
want to go to lunch after church.
You don't have to reach 10,000 people.
Why don't you reach the 10 that are right there.

(14:42):
Then start doing ministry together.
Sign up, go to the square dance and Riley's farm or take the
surf trip or let's go to Israel together.
A big church does not have to bea big church.
But you know I refuse. I'm just the the kind of pastor
I am not going to let people hide in our church that does

(15:04):
does that doesn't no one any good.
Yeah. Yeah, no, I love that.
And I think, I think we're what I'm, I'm totally with you.
I think what I'm, what I'm also noticing is that again, outside
of people hiding in community and culture, is that the, these
are folks that are showing up, not just the church.
They're going the extra step of saying I'm going to join a
weekly Bible study. And so we're, we're trying to

(15:24):
get them to be more hospitable, but it's like we have bigger
fish to fry. Folks don't even know a biblical
sex ethic. These are folks that are saying
yes to church, yes to Jesus coming to a Bible study.
And, you know, praise God, my wife is well equipped to have
these conversations with them. But it's, it's just so
interesting that regarding this,this great awakening that we're
seeming to have in our church, you know, where, where we've
doubled since this time last year.

(15:47):
And it and every week we're growing, consistently growing,
every week we're growing. And we're not, we're not quite a
mega church like you guys are. We're 14,000 people.
I think that's what you guys geton the Sunday.
Yeah. So we're about 1500 right now,
but it's it's growing fast. And so do you think that we are
in the middle of another great awakening similar to what your
generation saw with the Jesus Revolution?

(16:08):
Yeah. OK.
So listen, I'm going to preface this.
I've been asked that by CNN, by Fox News, The Blaze, Daily Mail.
OK, here's the deal. I've I've been the guy, I've
been the poo poo guy. Here's the reason why I know
church history. Do I want to jump up right now

(16:28):
and say, yes, we are in the midst of a great awakening?
Of course I want to say that. But here's the fact of the
matter. Remember, an awakening is where
the lost get found, right? The lost come and seek truth.
Are we seeing that? Yes.
How great will it be? Time will tell.

(16:51):
Here's what I'm concerned about more I'm I love what I'm seeing
regarding the awakening aspect. Historically, it's tracking
right on. It's looking good.
Here's what I'm concerned about.A lot of people are going to
church now. What kind of church are they
going to? In history, God has always first

(17:13):
revived the church and then an awakening followed.
Meaning this, the church got holy, beautiful, on fire,
awesome. And then the lost so to speak
was looking through the window saying I want some of that.
It's a little different this time.
I'm hoping that there's a revival within the church.

(17:34):
Remember the church is revived and the lost is awakened.
That's the definitions. If that happens, I'm telling you
it could be the biggest of all time.
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I love that you, you
connected it to like, hey, we don't, we don't want to have a
big church because I always say,hey, if there's revival here,
which I, which I'd like to thinkthere is, I don't think revival

(17:55):
is going to happen over screens like this.
I don't think it's going to happen in stadiums.
I don't think it's going to happen in big buildings
necessarily. I think it's going to happen at
dinner tables. I think it's going to happen in.
And I think that's what people need to be equipped to do.
You know, Ephesians 5 says, you know that the leaders of the
church, the, the, the pastors, the apostles and prophets, they
are called to equip the Saints for the work of the ministry.

(18:18):
And every time I talk to people,they're like, well, my pastor
doesn't do this. I don't feel fed or I da da da
da. It's like you're supposed to do
the work with men. Exactly.
I, I, I got to tell you last Sunday we have a men's group,
but then once a month I get withthe men of the church and it's
from 4:00 to 6:00 PM. Last last Sunday night, we had

(18:39):
close to 2000 guys show up and Ihave never seen this happen
before. These guys now it's now we
deliberately do not stream it. There's no women allowed.
It's a men's service and it's all about building biblical
masculinity from the Scriptures.What does the Bible say?
If God made men man and he did, then he, he wrote the manual.

(19:00):
Let's find out how to do it. So these guys, I'm telling you,
these guys, the young men are opening up to strangers saying,
hey, you know what? I am just torn with same sex
attraction. I'm not exactly sure what all
that means. I'm not even sure if I'm a
Christian and we saw people cometo Christ last Sunday night in a

(19:22):
discipleship setting, which kindof goes back to what you're
saying with the woman saying, hey, let's get, let's get down
with the church so I can go on some hot dates.
Wait a minute. If we become that hospitality,
you are really saying in a very gentle way, let's in a very
winsome way, let's be accountable.
Yeah, let's be accountable. Yeah, absolutely.

(19:44):
And I think accountability is much of what my own personal
sanctification happened. You know, I was going totally to
a church for several years, but it was when I decided to step in
to a small men's group the end of my junior year of high school
that I had already been kind of going to the church in the youth
group, But it was the end of my junior of high school when I
said, I'm, you know what, I'm going to take this thing

(20:04):
seriously. I'm going to be a part of a
local community that then the sanctification and the
accountability came from, you know, and so I think I think
it's, it's, it's important for people to do that.
And the the again, not to not tobrag about you guys too much,
but the beautiful part about Calvary Chapel is that you guys
have a. Cohesive manner across the

(20:26):
churches, but every church is kind of different.
You're going to get good Bible teaching, you're going to get
opportunities to connect. You're going to get great solid
men that that are in the pulpit.And that's I think why we're
seeing these sorts of things explode is like there's a hunger
for the word, right? And so one of the mistakes, and
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, without naming anybody,

(20:47):
but I'll just say this. I think one of the mistakes that
my generation made, I'm 40, is that about 10 years ago, we
really went into the attractional aspect of mega
church and celebrity pastors andall this sort of stuff.
And so it was like, hey, you know, do anything short of sin
to win people over and really make it attractional and monster
trucks and this and that and allthis craziness, right?

(21:09):
And, and, and I understand the heart and the intent.
And then when there was opportunities to speak on Oprah
or speak on you name the platform, what do you guys think
about abortion? What do you guys think about
homosexuality? They didn't answer those they.
Crumbled they. Didn't answer them publicly and
not what we're seeing is a generation of people that are
like, hey, I don't want to be coddled.

(21:30):
I'm probably going to disagree with you, but just tell me the
truth. Like what does the Bible really
say? And teach me the scriptures.
Teach me the scriptures. You don't have to give me a
three-point talk about it with an illustration and a movie
night and all this other stuff. Yeah, just teach me the
scriptures. Isn't it awesome?
Paul the apostle told Timothy. Give attention to reading.

(21:52):
How simple is that? Somebody, one of our one of my
youth pastors, just this Sunday,maybe you know about this, he
said. Did you see what happened if it
was in Texas where a church openup their doors for 75 hours or
76 hours and people came in and they read from Genesis to
Revelation behind a microphone. Like, like, like each person had

(22:15):
like 20 minutes. They read through the entire
Bible. And then they broke open in
worship and everybody was talking about the impact that it
made on their life. And when asked why, they said, I
heard portions of the Bible I'venever even heard before.
All that to say this, Jesus said, and we can talk about this
later if you want. It's your show, Jesus said my

(22:36):
sheep hear my voice. They'll follow me and a stranger
they will not listen to. So right now there's a lot of
division, look division going onin the church.
I don't think so I'm not panicking about it.
I see pastors ring in their hands because they just lost a
few people because of mentioningIsrael or mentioning gender or
mentioning COVID or mentioning BLM going back in time now

(22:59):
mentioning this that the other thing, Oh, we just lost 10
people. What do you, how do you know you
lost 10 people? Give the gospel and the gospel
and the word of God. It's not just the gospel, it's
the full counsel of God speaks to everything of our lives.
That means you're going to be talking about particular issues
in life. That said, some people are not

(23:19):
going to like it. Bottom line is this, it's not
for us as pastors to get people to come on in.
It's for us to give them the voice of Jesus.
What's the voice? The Word?
Is his voice OK? I want to ask you a spicy
question and we can clip this out if you don't if you're
uncomfortable. Well, now you've got me all
excited. OK, so I mentioned about 10
years ago, there was a lot of folks who were going viral

(23:43):
exploding the celebrity pastor thing.
And I've always made the statement that like, I, I, I
love to preach, I love to communicate.
But I know my gifting is not a local church pastor, right?
I watch me and my, me and my, some of my friends have had the
opportunity to go shoot with some Navy Seals, you know, and,
and I understand, I understand there's levels to it.

(24:03):
You know, it's like what you do is not what I do as a podcaster,
as a Christian, YouTube. There's, there's levels to
ministry and I get to sit here and pontificate and churches
will bring me out to speak sometimes and it's awesome.
But I think there's levels to it.
Now this is, this is my, my hot take.
I think there were amazing men of God who went into planting

(24:27):
churches and doing local ministry for my generation that
were not shepherds and pastors. They were constant creators.
They were authors. They were they were thought
leaders. And had they came on the scene
now, they probably would be doing something like I'm doing
where I'm in my garage speaking in front of a camera.
And by the grace of God, I reacha million unique users a month,

(24:47):
100,000 a day. And it's awesome.
But but I am not equipped nor wired nor designed to shepherd
people to Mary Barry, to overseea team, to put together a talk
every Sunday. I don't have that gifting.
And so I think there's levels toit.
And, and when I meet real pastors that are like, hey, I'm
sitting with the men, I'm doing the counseling, I'm doing the

(25:09):
funerals, I'm showing up to the hospitals, I'm preaching and I'm
leading a staff that's a very different gift set.
And So what, what, what do you think about that?
Like, do you think that there are perhaps some folks that went
into ministry because it was thelean, linear trajectory for
their career? Great, great word, but they
weren't equipped to be shepherdson the front lines, pastoring.
Look, how controversial do you want your show to go?

(25:32):
You, you cook cause 'cause people are going to respect you
and and and your legacy and whatyou come from.
So yeah, go go for it. I'm going to say something.
It's 100% true. Very few people think about it.
It answers exactly what you justsaid and in a strange way, if
he's listening to your podcast, he'll appreciate what I'm

(25:53):
saying. You just articulated this
reality. Greg Laurie shows up to Anaheim
Stadium and 65,000 people show up and 6000 people get saved.
Greg Laurie could read a menu atat Cheesecake Factory and people

(26:13):
get saved. Why he is an evangelist.
He is called it is obvious. It is so crystal clear and but I
defend Greg Laurie when I hear what I'm what I'm going to about
to tell you. And this is where the podcast
will either blow up or sink. People come to me and say,
Pastor Jack, I just love the fact that you greet people,

(26:35):
you're in the FOIA and you're inthe courtyard and you're saying
hi to people after service. My pastor doesn't do that.
Greg Laurie didn't do that. He drives in, he teaches, he
drives away, and I say, wait a minute, wait.
First of all, I have some loyalty to him.
The guy led me to Christ. But, but, but forget that Greg
Lloyd is an evangelist, but he was talked into, he was

(26:58):
pigeonholed as a pastor and people don't like that.
They can't have access to him. They want him to marry, bury
counsel in these things. He's not called to do that.
Greg knows his lane. He stays in it and the rest is
history. He is an anointed evangelist.
Is he a pastor teacher? I don't think so.

(27:20):
I'm going to get mail on this, but I'm standing on on on the
firm word. There's pastor teacher and of
course there's overlapping gifts, but there's also the gift
of evangelist. Which one does Greg Glory most
fit a profound calling primary calling.
Clearly evangelist me. I can't lead anybody to Christ.
I will mess it up so bad. But once you lead them to

(27:42):
Christ, give them to me because I'll disciple them.
I'll teach them the word. You know, you're Lane and you're
a young man and you're wise in recognizing that a lot of people
think they've either got to do everything or they're supposed
to be the next whatsoever and they're like the round peg in
the square. It's just not working and you're

(28:03):
gonna have to have some trust inthe Lord to speak to you about
your gifting and calling. And when you do that and trust
them, I think that's when a persons ministry will blossom.
Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's definitely hot take.
And I love Pastor Greg. He's also extremely creative and

(28:25):
and extremely prolific, like he's written 100 books or
something crazy. Well, you said creative, do you?
You, you know what he you've been to his office.
I, I mean, he's been here and, and this, this is the coolest
thing ever. When he was here, we didn't have
this bathroom. So he's, I think it was the 1st
guest in this room. We had just moved in and he
walked in through where you walked in and he had to go use
the other bathroom. My kids were there just like

(28:46):
they were here during home school and he ended up stopping
and spending like 15 minutes just drawing pictures for them
and just hang. It was the sweetest thing.
I got video of it. I'll show you, maybe I'll play
it here. I don't really show my family
online, but it was the coolest thing.
So he's so creative. That's exactly why I just asked
you this. If you go to his office or if
you look at his notes, his sermon notes, I look, Greg

(29:07):
Laurie sells best selling books.I think Greg Laurie should
actually put his notes together and sell those because they're
brilliant. What he, how he thinks I can
relate to in a very tiny way. I wish I could be more like him,
but Greg is Technicolor and he and he's a great cartoonist.
And remember, his ambition was to work for Disney.

(29:30):
He wanted to be an illustrator, A cartoonist for Disney.
That said, it comes across so beautifully in his evangelistic
delivery. But I would to God that more
Christians knew their lane, right?
I think the church would do better if we operated in our
lane and some of the old greats would say that if that happened

(29:52):
in your local church where people served with their gift in
their lane, your church would have a revival.
Amen. Amen.
OK, so let's talk about Israel alittle bit because the reason
you got recommended to, to, to to chat.
I didn't even know. Yeah.
So it was a couple friends of mine that go to your church.
And every time I do a video about Israel, I would read the

(30:15):
scriptures, Matt, I would say, you know what, we we can look at
Romans 1125. All Israel will be saved.
And I'll say, man, I think Israel, something is going to
happen in the future with Israel.
I don't know what that is. And I've been to Israel and I
love Israel. However, I do believe that the
church is God's people for today, but there's some sort of
promise for Israel in the future.

(30:37):
I don't know what that looks like.
Oh, this is awesome. And now that that now I would I
don't think is we go to the extreme of giving the government
and specifically Benjamin and Yahoo a blank check to do
whatever he wants. And if there are things that are
questionable, and I pointed to aspecific couple things we should
say, Hey, that's not OK. That's that's bad, right?

(30:58):
And so every time I have this conversation, I have folks that
go, you're a dispensationalist, you just don't know you're
dispensationless because you're using dispensational.
You just don't know you're dispensational.
And I've had multiple friends friends say that my buddy Ear to
Hear has a great YouTube channel, quite Ear to Hear.
He said that Mike David from a group called Sharp Dialect, he
goes to your church as well, hassaid that to me.

(31:21):
And so every time I have this conversation, I'm like, yeah,
like I think the church is the church and it's the people of
God. I don't like the idea of new
Israel. I don't, I don't like that
terminology, right? But I think they're grafted in.
And then I think there's some sort of uniqueness to whatever
is going to happen in the futurewith Israel.
I hope it's a future revival. I don't know how it connects to
the eschatology, right? Are you a, a, a, a

(31:43):
premillennial, a post millennial?
I, I'm a pan millennial. I think it'll all pan out in the
end, right? I don't, I don't know how it's
going to work, but there seems to be something there.
So help me understand. I don't.
My understanding of dispensationalism is the extreme
versions where people say stuff like Andrew Clavin from The
Daily Wire, for example, and I love The Daily Wire and I love

(32:04):
and I love Ben Shapiro. It says stuff like Ben Shapiro
doesn't need to come to Jesus. He's doing just fine.
And if you came to Jesus, it'll be bad.
I've heard other folks, I can't think of the names, but saying
stuff like Jews don't need to besaved, they don't need to come
to Jesus, right? And I've heard that side of
dispensationalism, which I wouldreject.
I don't think that's biblical, but but I do believe the church
is the the children of God. I believe we are grafted in and

(32:27):
that is how God primarily moves today's through the local
church. So am IA dispensationalist or am
I not a dispensationalist? Help me understand this is
beautiful. You're going to fix all this for
me? I mean, I hope to for and I'm
nobody special. It's not me.
So let's so imagine for a momentall of your all of your viewers

(32:47):
taking a big deep breath and letting that out and read the
Bible start in Genesis. So what do we know?
The word, first of all, dispensation.
It it appears in Scripture. Let's remember that it it
appears in the book of Ephesians, for one thing, twice.
That said, what does it mean? What?

(33:09):
What part of Ephesians do you remember?
Ephesians chapter 1 and 3 I believe it is.
Which translation 'cause I couldpull it up while you're King
James. OK, new King James.
Look it. Up.
You got it. And I, I apologize.
I've got my Bible but my eyes are shut today.
No, you're good. OK, so you tell me when you get
there. So it appears in the Bible and a
lot of people who have a certainbent, they don't even like to

(33:30):
admit that it appears in the Bible.
Ephesians What? Ephesians 1 and I think also
chapter 3. OK, dispensation in the English,
What does it mean? It simply means the in fact, if
you look up the word, it's goingto say something to the effect
in the Greek, the management of a household of time or the

(33:51):
management or the prerogative ofa governor regarding time or
resources. It's an it's an interesting word
because when we think dispensation, I think most
people think like that it's a problem.
And I got it on the screen for you, by the way, you can't see

(34:11):
it, but we see it here that, that in the dispensation of the
fullness of times, you might gather one all things to Christ
which both which are in heaven and which are on earth.
So go ahead. I just wanted to pull that.
Number one, it's in the Bible. Notice the context.
Notice what you just read. In fact, can you?
Can you do it again? Can you read what you just read

(34:32):
and listen everybody very carefully?
Yeah. So it says that in the
dispensation of the fullness of time, time He might gather
together in one all things in Christ.
All of that is what's known as prescient or eschatological.
OK, it's looking to the future. Big fancy words simply means
looking to the future. Yep, Yep.
The dispensation is always connected with time.

(34:55):
And I have it pulled up here in the Greek too by the.
Good, good, good, good. Dispensation is always connected
to time. If everyone takes that deep
breath and listens, it's a time issue #2 the meaning of the word
is management. It means to manage time.
Isn't it interesting that Isaiah96 tells us that Jesus Christ

(35:18):
regarding Speaking of the Messiah, A messianic passage of
Isaiah 9/6 that He is that he isthe the the Prince of peace, the
the counselor and the father is it calls Jesus father.
It's a wait a minute, we have two fathers.
No, no, no, look it up in the original Hebrew and it's Jesus

(35:40):
is the governor of time. He is the one that presides over
time. Watch this and I'm going to try
to pull this together. Book of Hebrews opens up and
says that in times time, in times past, God spoke to the
fathers through the prophets. However, he now in the last

(36:07):
days, these days time has spokento us by his own Son.
What did I just tell you? I just gave you the definition
of the word dispensation, the management of time in Isaiah 96.
Jesus is the governor of time. Of course, Psalm 40 also the

(36:29):
book of Hebrews, behold, in the volume of the book, it is
written of me Speaking of Messiah.
So Genesis 11 says in the beginning God created.
You know this. Well, there's no such thing as
physical creation unless you have time.
God existed outside of time. He's timeless when He created

(36:50):
time, all things physical and people forget time is physical.
We know that in a laboratory we can tamper with time.
That said, people freak out overdispensational ISM conversations
and I'm going to be blunt, people freak out over

(37:10):
dispensational issues because itdoesn't fit their man made
theology. Now there I go, I said it.
So what do you mean by that? If you do not adhere to the
Bible, letting it speak for itself, let it talk.
I'll be sarcastic, lovingly sarcastic.

(37:30):
Couldn't the God who made this whole thing talk to us plainly?
I believe He can, and He did andHe does.
That said, we have the time management between from creation
to the physical universe to the creation of Adam.

(37:54):
That took a time. You could argue the
dispensations of the days of creation, Were they actual days?
Were there millions of years between days?
I don't care what you talk about.
You're talking about time. That's a definition of a
dispensation. Now from the creation of Adam to
to what? The coming of Abraham, that's a
dispensation of time. The way God was speaking after

(38:18):
Adam coming up to Abraham, God was doing what God does.
He's sovereign over time. Then you've got the Abrahamic
covenant, you've got Noah, you've got Abraham, you've got
multiple covenants. Instead of people figuring it
out that this happens that in various times God spoke and now
does through his son. That's actually dispensational

(38:41):
and people get all upset becauseif you actually believe what it
says and you don't want to because you've got a
denominational I'm going to get you're OK everybody get mad at
me. He's he's OK.
You can get mad at me if you if you follow your denomination
more than the Bible like so for example, you could ask me my

(39:05):
loyalties to Calvary Chapel Answer none.
If Calvary Chapel departs from the Bible, I'm departing from
Calvary Chapel. How's that?
OK, that said, if you let the Word speak for what it says,
here's what you find out. That in the fullness of time,
God sent forth his son, born of a woman, born under the law.

(39:28):
Galatians 4 four. That's a dispensation you can't
argue in any other way. Well, if that's true, was there
a time when God created a man whose name was Jacob, and God
called him Israel after they hadthe wrestling match?

(39:50):
And so God says your name's not Jacob anymore, it's Israel.
And from you there will be generations that come from you,
and I will establish you forever.
God said forever. And so this man Israel happens
and this, this Israel comes together, this Israel I'm fast
forwarding. You've got these people that
have now disobeyed God dramatically.

(40:12):
They're in exile in Egypt. And God calls Moses to bring
them out. And he brought them out with a
mighty hand. And what did God do?
How could he do this? God introduces yet again another
act of dispensationalism. He gives them the law.
That is God working in time, andthat's not a problem.

(40:34):
We do it every day. You might eat breakfast at
Mimi's and then you guys choose to eat at The Cheesecake Factory
this evening. There's no crime.
The crime would be failing to recognize that God moves in
certain ways at certain times. However, he never contradicts
himself. That would then make him not
God. So we come down to the the

(40:55):
problem of Israel. What in the world is going on?
People are getting rabid over the issue of Israel.
Why aren't they? Why are they?
Because I'm looking at Jeremiah 31.
Did you know that Jeremiah 31 verse 31 as well, starting
there, says that I am going to bring you back.

(41:16):
I'm going to take out of your chest the heart of stone and I'm
going to put within you a heart of flesh and I'm going to write
my law in your heart and and listen to this, he says.
I'm going to abolish the covenant I made with you.
I know you're typing, but are you?
No, no, no, I'm listening. I got on the screen all right

(41:36):
brother. Yeah, I'm listening because I'm
loving on you. First on this God right here
says I'm going to take the covenant that I gave you and you
broke it and I'm going to replace it with a new key, says
new covenant right here in Jeremiah.
That's the New Testament experience.
He prophesize about it right here and he says to the Jew, he

(41:58):
says, I'm going to write it on your heart in the future.
I'm going to put it in you. You're not going to have it on
stone. I'm going to put it in you.
Guess what? The born again experience is
having the law of God written onyour heart.
How do I know that? Well, it actually happened to
the first Jew, or I should say this, I can, I can answer this
way in some ways. It happened to Abraham first.

(42:18):
Remember that guy Abraham was a Gentile before he was ever a
Jew. That always freaks out my Jewish
friends. He was from the ER of the
Chaldeans. He was a Pagan worshipper.
God called him a Jew. So, so Fast forward when
somebody says like Andrew or Ben, hey, you Christians,

(42:39):
whatever you're doing, whatever,we've got a different path to
salvation. Really.
I don't think so, because the Jew of Jews, Jesus said to a
pretty big deal of a Jew, Nicodemus, he was the teacher of
Israel. What did Jesus say to him?

(43:00):
Keep the law. No, say he must be born again.
The first person who was told tobe born again was a Jew being
told by a Jew. Think of it.
The law was given that you and Iwould realize that we are
sinners nowhere. In fact, I'll prove my point
because I've, I've, I love Jewish people and I'm not going
to name some names, but off camera, we'll talk later that

(43:24):
there's some famous Jews in America that have become
followers of Messiah Yeshua. They're not, they can't announce
it yet. How do I know?
Because I've prayed with them. And there are some that are
close and there's some that said, I hear what you're saying.
I understand it better now. I don't want to ever talk about
this again. That said, check it out.

(43:46):
God says throughout the entire Old Testament, if I don't keep
my promises to Israel, may the sun never rise.
That's by the way, that's Jeremiah.
Again, if I don't keep my promises to Israel, the sun will
not rise. It will not set.
The heavenly bodies will not stay in their courses.
The day that that happens is theday that I break my covenant
with Israel. Notice this.
Here's the shocker. If God doesn't keep His covenant

(44:09):
promises with Israel, then I as a Gentile believer in Jesus and
Yeshua, I have no hope. Israel is a pain in the butt to
God. He said so you are a stiff
necked rebellious people. Every time I do something for
you, you throw it back in my face.

(44:29):
You go he in the old King James.He says you go whoring after
other gods come back to me. If you don't come back, I'm
going to remove my hand of blessing.
You're going to be driven to allthe four corners of the earth
and I'm not going to talk to youagain until I regather you in
the last days. Think about that.
Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Joel,Zechariah, Revelation, Matthew

(44:53):
24, Matthew 25. It's all about the Jews coming
back in the last days. So that, my friend, is what gets
people lit up and they say things like this.
Nope. The the Jews are illegitimate.
And by the way, while we, while we dumb, dumb Christians argue
over this, the Muslim is off to the side clapping at our

(45:15):
argument because from the river to the sea, baby, Islam teaches
no more Jew, no more Jerusalem, none of that stuff.
So you Christians just keep tearing yourselves apart.
And the Jew, we were loving it. Be careful, I'll say it again.
If God doesn't keep his covenantpromises with Israel, I ain't
got no hope. How would you say this is

(45:36):
different from covenant theology, which I want to say
some of the like Eastern Orthodox folks and I don't think
they think the Catholics hold toit as well, right?
How is it different from covenant theology?
Yeah, you cannot hold to one flavor.
It's not like baskin-robbins where you walk in, I'll take
that one. You cannot hold just the one
flavor. So, for example, if you say I am

(45:59):
a, a covenant theology individual, you need to
understand, Are you sure? You better check the basket that
holds all the rest of that stuffbecause your eschatology is
going to be screwy. You're going to have to now
spiritualize Scripture. That's not really what he meant.
You'll hear this a lot. Well, what I believe this is
saying, it's what he really meant was beware of that kind of

(46:23):
talk. God is so good that he not only
says it once, he says it over and over and over again, because
we're we're kind of hard headed.So covenant theology, I would, I
would watch out for that. I would watch out for obviously
replacement theology, which again is Muslims love Christians
doctrine on replacement theology.
But isn't it interesting, though?

(46:44):
Replacement theology says Israelhas abandoned God, so he's
abandoned them. We've taken their place, and so
we inherit everything that was given to them.
Are you sure you want to stick with that?
Because if you're going to be true to your logic, you are
actually picking all the blessings that God said he'll
give. And God said, if you disobey me,
here's the curses. And if some Christian comes up

(47:06):
to you and says, oh, I've never disobeyed God, or for example,
if the Presbyterian or denomination says, oh, we were,
we were perfectly obedient to God.
I mean, come on, nobody is. So you just can't say, well,
we'll take the blessings of Israel, but not the disobedient
curses. Replacement theology makes no
sense. It doesn't make any sense.

(47:27):
So sorry. No, that's good.
That's good. OK.
So in terms of, yeah, 'cause I have eschatology questions for
you, but in, in terms of some ofthe pushback to this and then
and they're coming in the comments just so you know,
they're going to be, they're going to say, I expect it.
Well, what, what do you, how do you come to the conclusion that
the modern state of Israel established in 1948 is the same

(47:49):
Israel in the scripture And, andmore specifically, you know,
hey, they're, they're secular. They are pro pro-choice,
homosexual, yeah, all the all the things.
Liberal as all get out. Yeah.
And then you have their own eschatology.
That's right. Some would say on the on the far

(48:10):
right end of the spectrum in Israel is perhaps driving some
of the mistreatment of the Palestinian people.
Yet I'm not denying any of that.OK, I would be an idiot to deny
any of that, but here's the truth.
The truth says in Ezekiel, God says.
By the way, everyone read Ezekiel chapter 3637 and 38.
This is about all the nations rising up against Israel.

(48:31):
That's. More than that, because it
starts out with him saying, Ezekiel, take a look at what you
see. I see a valley of dry bones.
Everybody's dead. And he says, can those bones
live again? And he said, only you know,
Lord. And he says those bones is the
House of Israel. They've been dispersed to all

(48:52):
the nations of the world in the last days.
I'm going to breathe my breath and God listen.
In the vision, Ezekiel sees God breathing his breath over the
bones and the bones stand up andthis it says the sinew comes on
to the joints and the flesh comeon and and God tells Ezekiel
again, that's the House of Israel.
And here's where it gets incredibly awesome.

(49:13):
This is why Bible prophecy is isdesigned to embolden us.
God says to Ezekiel they're I'm going to call them back into
their own land from up from the four corners of the earth in the
last days and they're going to come back in unbelief.
But I'm going to gather them. They're going to till the land.
So stop everybody. Prior to 1948, what was the land

(49:36):
of Israel like? By the way, I'd encourage all of
you to go to YouTube to Prager you and type in the Israel Test
by George Gilder. The guy's not even a Christian,
I don't think, and he's not a Jew either.
George Gilder, go take the Israel test.
Prior to 1948, Israel was a DustBowl.

(49:57):
God says, I'm going to bring them back.
They're going to plant vineyards, they're going to
harvest wine, they're going to raise cattle, and they're going
to take the waste places and they're going to make them
inhabitable again, all in unbelief.
It's not until Ezekiel 38 that God rescues them from a war.
And it says and then they will believe in me.

(50:19):
Interesting. Everything's tracking perfectly
right now. OK, so I got Ezekiel 37 pulled
up here and I'm trying to find the verse about you said, you
said in the last days there theywill be dry bones will be
revived and come back. Yeah.
Chapters 3637 and then the Battle Begin happens in 38.
That's when their eyes are open.Interesting.

(50:40):
OK, so I've, I've, I've heard, I've heard about the nation's
rising up to the Lord, this ideaof yes.
So then he said, speak a prophetic message to these and
say, dry bones, listen to the word of the Lord.
This is what the sovereign Lord says, Look, I am going to put
breath into you and make you live again.
I will put flesh and muscles on you and cover your skin.
I will put breath into you and you will come to life.
Then you know that I am the Lord.

(51:02):
And so you're saying this is about Israel?
I'm not saying if you read all of that chapter, it says he says
it's Israel. So don't take my word for it.
Yeah, I'm, I'm specifically asking about Israel being
hardened to the gospel that we see in in Romans 11.
Romans, 9/10/11. Yeah, what Paul is writing.

(51:23):
I don't want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and
sisters, so that you may not be conceited.
Israel has experienced and hardening in part until the full
number of the Gentiles has become in and this and in this
way, all Israel will be saved. As it is written.
The deliverer will come from Zion.
He will turn godlessness away from Jacob, and this is my
covenant with them when I take away their sins.
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for

(51:45):
your sake, but as far as election is concerned, they are
loved on account of the patriarchs.
Wow. For God's gifts and His cause
are irrevocable. Is that awesome?
I think this is the part when I read this that gives me.
Comfort. Because he's not.
He's not gonna lose me. Yep, Yep, if he keeps.
Them he'll keep you an eye. Yeah, that's good.
I think. I think it's very difficult to
read this, especially in contextof what you just showed us in
Ezekiel and say that there doesn't seem to be some sort of

(52:08):
future plan. Context is for for the the the
children of Israel to come back.They're coming.
The Bible said they would come back in unbelief and he would
restore them before his coming. In fact, you know what's very
cool? You said you've been to Israel.
Do you remember? Do you remember?
I don't know how I don't remember how familiar you are to
the Eastern gate. It's also referred to as the

(52:30):
Golden Gate. But did you know that in the
year 1080 or 1100, the Muslims, the Ottomans, they literally
read the scriptures and understood and this is an
Islamic writings. I'm sorry, you're going to have
to get the exact data from a guyby the name of J Smith, who you

(52:51):
should have on this show. He's the greatest living Islamic
apologist apologist. But he's a Christian.
He famously knows Islam better than Muslims.
They've admitted that he speaks and reads and writes fluent
Arabic. He J Smith that said, listen to
this. When the Ottomans came and took

(53:13):
Jerusalem, they put Gentile deadbodies in front of the eastern
gate, because the latter end of the Hebrew prophets, Ezekiel's
one of them, It says that when he comes back, he, the Messiah
will go through the eastern gate.
Now you've read this before, where his, his foot will touch
the Mount of Olives, it will split.

(53:34):
That's from Ezekiel 40 on out, and the water will gush forth
and he will enter the Golden Gate.
This is the second coming, the events of the second coming.
The Muslims read that and said we know how to, We know how to
stop a Jewish Messiah. He can't walk through a
graveyard. He'd be unclean.
We'll make it a graveyard. Isn't that amazing?

(53:56):
They believe it. A lot of Christians don't
believe it. Interesting.
OK, I, I, I love it. So in terms of modern day
Israel, yes. How does one navigate with
modern day Israel regarding what's happening in Gaza?
Do everything you can to bring them to Christ.
Let's take Gaza. How much do we know about Gaza?
Have we been to Gaza? What?
Who are we listening to? Simple.

(54:18):
Let's start here. How about if we go to wait,
let's go to the spectrum. Spectrum to the right is like
all Israel news, Joel Rosenberg.So we'll get his news reporters
and then let's go all the way tothe other side of the spectrum
and let's get there's not much of a difference between BBC, Al

(54:38):
Jazeera. They're both covering the exact
same event and they're both saying the opposite things.
Here we are in America, fat, dumb and happy.
What? What do we even know what we're
talking about? Have we seen what's happening?
Have you been to Israel? Have have I been to Israel,
where we're going through Bethlehem and I see news
reporters paying kids $20 bills to throw rocks at our tour bus.

(55:02):
Yes, I have. What's that all about?
News is made sometimes. Sometimes news doesn't happen.
But I am not saying that Israel's sinless.
How about this? The same scrutiny I apply to
Israel and to Netanyahu, I applyto Trump and to the United
States of America, which by the way, is the same level of

(55:23):
scrutiny I apply to Canada and their Prime Minister.
But what a weird thing is none of those countries I just
mentioned does God claim to havea covenant with them doesn't
make them sinless. They're they're not.
But we need to be careful because it's easy for us to
throw rocks across the pond, so to speak.

(55:45):
But I have you mentioned being with the seals.
I had the honor of being with the the AIF.
You don't hear much about the the the IAF of the Israeli Air
Force. I have seen in real time
Israel's response while I was inIsrael on an air base when

(56:06):
rockets were launched from southern Lebanon.
And I watched how Israel responded.
I was there for about four hoursand you're watching overhead.
Israel did absolutely nothing. It doesn't mean they're not
going to do something later. But here's what happened.
The day that I was there was discovered that rockets were

(56:27):
being launched out of a elementary school in southern
Lebanon. Israel identified that it was a
school. They chose not to attack that
school. Their reason for was they took
seven rocket launches into Israel and they never once
attacked that school. That's why.

(56:48):
And maybe you know, there's a famous British general who does
podcast and he did a video againat Prager U and this guy said
Israel is the most, the IDF is the most moral military that he
has ever seen on earth. Now keep that in mind.
War is hell, as the proverb goes, and no one's sinless.

(57:12):
But we need to be careful that while we're throwing stones at
Israel, we can throw those same stones at America.
The point is this, it's not going to be right till Jesus
comes back. So what do we do?
We need to witness to every Palestinian the love of Jesus.
I happen to be heavily involved in a group called Home People

(57:33):
from our church. They're not going to know this.
They're going to find out from your program.
Right now, I am very, very involved with Hospital Outreach
Middle East. That organization is a wing of
Samaritan's Purse. It is an outreach to provide
medical care to Muslim women andchildren because I'll just say

(57:54):
that they don't get good medicalcare.
Women and children in Islam. Why do we do this?
Because when we are giving them medical care, we're giving them
the gospel. OK, What about Jews?
Jews need their Messiah. They need to hear.
And if we get a chance, I'd loveto show you you'll you'll

(58:16):
appreciate this. I will show you a verse that to
this date, after being a Christian for 49 years, refute
the verse about Messiah from theOld Testament.
So you can't let me go. I'm an old guy.
I'm going to trust you. You got to remind me That said,
the Bible commands you and me toprovoke the Jew to jealousy,

(58:38):
doesn't it? We are supposed to cause them to
want the Messiah that we know. And then when we say to them,
hey, you know what I don't know.I don't know what's going on
with Netanyahu. I don't know what's up, but
your, your prophets told me thatGod sets up kings and he tears
kings down. That's God's business.
Let's pray for him and let's expose what's wrong.

(59:02):
Of course, but let's keep this in mind.
Being a Gentile. I'm a Gentile, but my God's
Jewish Jesus died on the cross. He's the king of the Jews and
you guys should listen to him. Oh, we can't do that.
We can't do that. He was a heretic.
Well, I can prove to you that hewasn't and my dialogue with

(59:23):
Jews, it's fun, but I'm telling you, don't let someone say to
you, well, we just have to turn a blind eye to all that Israel's
doing. That's stupid.
No, you don't, but you need to understand God said I'm going to
bring them back. They're not going to believe in
me. They won't believe in me until,
until I, Ezekiel 38 supernaturally delivered them

(59:44):
from an incredible invasion. Then time stamp.
There you go. Time stamp the word, then you
have to look at the word then. In light of.
That word again, that dirty word, dispensation, because God
says when this war takes place. Then they will begin.
To believe in me, that's a dispensation.

(01:00:07):
Yeah. So it sounds like you're saying?
You don't just turn a blind eye if and when Israel misbehaves,
you don't you? You definitely believe Jews need
Jesus and they need to place their faith in Jesus.
You are saying that there is some sort of future great
awakening that's going to happenwhen there's a deliverance that

(01:00:28):
happens. Absolutely.
And so do you think that there'stime and place to correct folks
that perhaps go too far on the pro Israel side?
Of course, where they're like, hey, you know, any critique you
present is always 'cause that's that.
Just so you know, that's what I'm like.
I went on the Sean Ryan podcast and I said I read that verse.
By the way, I love that guy. I want to go on his podcast.

(01:00:48):
Yeah, he's great. He doesn't know.
Who I am but I love that guy's show he so I read the verse and
and and we said hey man, we. We don't like what's happening
in Gaza, but for me it's very difficult to look at Romans, to
look at Ezekiel and not acknowledge that God has some
sort of future plan for Israel. And even the in the most gentle
critique, I have some household names, I'll tell you who they

(01:01:09):
are offline that are messaging me and saying I need to be
reeducated on Israel and I don'tknow what I'm talking about.
I'm like, I've, I've been to Israel, I've been to Gaza, I've
I've seen these sorts of things.I I'm also Armenian and so I've
been to the Armenian quarter, which isn't open to most people,
right, Unless you know someone there.
Yes, exactly. So I also know some of the
tensions that Armenians. Face, I know some of the.
Tensions that the Christians face.

(01:01:31):
I, I, I, I actually know much more about Israel than the
average person. And so it's like there, there is
this idea that like any criticism about anything related
to Israel is met with such a vitriol and everything is
anti-Semitic. I think it's ignorance and I and
I go hey, like I, I, I don't think.
That I was talking to. I was talking to Michael Knowles
and he was talking about, Hey, you know, they they shot a

(01:01:53):
church in Gaza. Don't the one of the few
standing churches. And he said, Hey, they're saying
that it was an accident. And he was like, and I could say
that I think we need less accidents to churches in Gaza.
Who? So here's what I would say,
because again, remember my background.
Is is more science. Let's let's see if it can.
Let's see if we can create it and then break it.
So I would ask Michael Knowles sarcastically.

(01:02:14):
I'm just lovingly being sarcastic.
Hey, Michael, who said it was anaccident?
The IDF said it was an accident.OK, so in the.
IDF who said it was an. Accident.
How did you, how did you determine it's an accident, Mr.
IDF person? Oh, because Billy Bopp over here
pulled the trigger while he was sneezing or something.

(01:02:35):
We just need to question things before we judge things.
Let's do some fact finding and I'm all for that, but please,
people need to realize that the Candace Owens approach is
actually borderline mental case.There's something seriously

(01:02:55):
wrong. What do you What do you mean the
Jews did everything? The Jews killed.
Charlie. The Jews.
Everything about the Jews. And it's it The Jews, The Jews.
And honestly, if they're that powerful, then why aren't things
way better for them? If they control Hollywood, why
do they absolutely reek at controlling PR?

(01:03:17):
They're terrible at it. If the Jews are so fantastic at
all this stuff that she claims they are are so bad that they
are everything is. She's just, I'm sorry to say it,
just blame the Jew. In fact, I don't know if you saw
what's his face. Who's the guy?
Tatum. Officer Tatum.
Brandon. Brandon Tatum.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
I just talked. To Brandon a cool.

(01:03:39):
Podcast on. Oh man, about about the Jews
being blamed for everything. We have to be care.
We cannot blame the Canadians for everything.
Well, we're not talking about Canadians.
That's exactly right. But we cannot just If I tell you
what, if the conclusion regarding world events is easy
for us to immediately spew, we're probably wrong.

(01:04:02):
Yeah, yeah, no, I'd agree. I think the idea that the.
The Jews are. Yeah, I think it's so ridiculous
because the second most populated Jewish city is New
York City, and they're about to elect a Marxist Muslim.
Yeah. Mayor.
Yep. And so it's like, if they

(01:04:22):
control everything. Yeah.
What's with that? Well, they can't even control
their own city. Exactly.
Hey. So I got to ask.
You. So you.
You mentioned a few times, threetimes regarding the future,
regarding Israel. We can have some fun with this,
this way. Do you believe that Jesus Christ
is going to return to earth? Yeah, absolutely.
Then where is he going to returnto?

(01:04:44):
I want to say Jerusalem. Why do you want to say?
That I mean that that's always. Been my reading of the
scripture. Yes, you read it in the
scripture. Not only does it say Jerusalem,
it says that he's going to set up his throne.
Do you know about? Do you know where in Zion?
Do you know where Zion is? Because you've been there.
You may not remember, but you you probably walked all around

(01:05:04):
it. Mount Moriah is a law.
It's an elongated. Hilltop that is like a Mesa that
is pitched. That's where the the Temple
Mount is right? Correct.
So watch my. Watch my hands.
So here's the. City of David, if you took that
archaeological, there's the Cityof David and then you go up and

(01:05:25):
then you've got the AL Aqsa Mosque, which is the Gray Dome,
and then you have the Dome of the Rock Mosque.
That's the different, that's theother one, the famous one.
And then you've got the Temple Mount area.
And if you keep going up, you gooutside the the, the old walled
city. The bus station is over there.
It's the northern gate. That's how you get to Damascus.

(01:05:48):
There is a hilltop there, the highest ground of Moriah.
It's not rocket science. It's a place called Golgotha.
That's the high ground way down below.
And I may be off, but I won't betoo far off.
From Golgotha to David is maybe 3 football fields, I'm guessing.

(01:06:09):
OK, yeah, it's not very far. One's way way low.
One's way. High the way.
High point is more is the top ofMariah In Genesis, when God took
Isaac to Mariah, it says Mariah would ice would, would, would
Abraham. Remember in this paganism, by
the way, it's true in biblical stuff and it's true in Pagan

(01:06:30):
stuff. When you're going to make an
offering, what do we see? We always go to the high ground.
We go to the mountain or the High Peak.
That's where we do it. Who knows why?
Where would have where? Where would Abraham go?
He tells his two servants, Wait here, we will go up and worship
and we will come back to you. What a prophetic statement,

(01:06:52):
right? Where would he have gone?
He would have gone to Moriah's peak called Golgotha.
Fast forward, I believe that wasprophecy being lived out.
The Father. By the way, Isaac carried the
wood, so did Jesus. That's good.
OK, that said. God's going to.
Repeat that the reason? Why I asked you that question

(01:07:14):
about do you think Jesus is coming back if you don't want
Jesus to? Come back and if you don't
believe. According to your theology, he
is coming back. Then Israel's not important to
you. Neither is Jerusalem.
In fact, why don't you plant some dead bodies?
In front of the gate. And why don't you rename the
city Ayila Capitalina and removein 135AD135AD remove the name

(01:07:40):
Israel because you're the Emperor Hadrian in Rome.
And to finally insult your arch enemies who drive you nuts,
these Jews, You are going to name them after the ancient
Philistines, but in Latin it's Palestinian or Palestine.
There was no such thing until 135 AD.

(01:08:02):
If you want to erase the Jews, you better might, you might want
to rethink your strategy becauseChrist is coming back.
He's coming back to be the king of Jerusalem.
His throne's going to be in Zion.
And if Jesus doesn't sit on the throne of David, we got the
wrong one. Yeah.
Yeah, I've. I've always understood it.
That the same place where Abraham was willing to offer

(01:08:24):
Isaac as a sacrifice, same placewhere the temple was right?
And then there was another historical moment there.
There's a lot of historical moments there when David.
When remember this is kind of cool.
Remember when the when they brought the Ark of the Covenant
to Moriah, David, remarkably they would have parked it

(01:08:44):
probably where the temple area would be, but David, it says
that David went up to the higherground and he pitched his tent
and he worshipped the Lord therein his own tent.
I can't prove this. This is kind of romantic, but I
wouldn't doubt if David worship the Lord at what is called
Golgotha. That's interesting.
And you're saying, according to Scripture, Jesus is going?

(01:09:06):
To come back to Golgotha, well, it doesn't say Golgotha.
It says that Jesus is. Coming back to Jerusalem, right,
Ezekiel 40, 3 to 45 tells us that he's going to establish his
a temple. He's going to have a temple
there. So I'm assuming that's going to
be on the Temple Mount and that he's got his be enthroned in

(01:09:29):
Zion for Jesus to fulfilled ancient prophet, Hebrew
prophets, he's got to be enthroned in Zion.
You remember Palm Sunday, the people started shouting Hosanna,
Hosanna. Blessed is he who comes in the
name of the Lord. Go back now and read in the Old
Testament, for example, Psalm 118 and others.
When is that going to happen? Is it interesting?

(01:09:51):
Jesus is Jesus said you're not going to see me again until you
say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
Translation, my translation, I came, the nation rejected me,
not by the way, the nation. Many Jews believed in him.
Remember the first church was all Jewish.
That's right. We forget that that's right.

(01:10:12):
But he says to the nation, the. Next time you.
See me? You will say, blessed is he who
comes in the name of the. Lord, you Speaking of?
The nation. That means there's going to be a
nation. Is it Netanyahu?
Forget about the Netanyahu stuff.
These guys are there in unbelief.
They're they're legit. God brought them back.
But are they born again believers?

(01:10:32):
No, they're not supposed to be. But as I meet a Jew, I do
everything I can to lead a Jew to their Messiah.
And someday, look, there's there's individual salvation
like you like me. I have Jewish friends who are
who are they don't like using the term born again, but they'll
say, yeah, I'm born again. But I'm a believer.
That's how they refer to themselves believer.

(01:10:53):
Because if you remember ancient history, church history, the
Christians were not called Christians until Antioch, when
the Pagan Romans were making funof us and they called us little
little messiahs because we're running around telling everybody
about his message. The Jews, that they don't like
the label Christian. OK, fine.

(01:11:13):
I don't care. In fact, I'm not sure if I like
it anymore because everybody seems to be a Christian on
Sunday. Satan might be a Christian on
Sunday. I like being called a believer.
I love that. So that's sad, man.
If there's no Israel, if there'sno future to Israel, I ain't got
no hope. Interesting.
OK, No, I like it. I think it's a balanced.
Perspective on it from everything I'm hearing, I don't

(01:11:34):
it's not, I don't disagree with anything you just said.
So it's so interesting. So then those folks who would
say the Jews don't need to be saved and they're doing it in
the name of the same prophecies,they're doing it in the name of
the same or or similar dispensational viewing.
Would you say they're, they're off and they're wrong, they're
off. They need to evangelize the Jew.
They need. To go find a Jew.

(01:11:55):
You know what you're making me think I'm I wonder.
Why they don't tell the Jew the.Gospel because you didn't You
know Jews will not read the New Testament, right?
So how did Paul the. Apostle How did Jesus?
How did Peter, how did James andJohn preach the gospel and prove
that Jesus was the Messiah without the New Testament?

(01:12:18):
They preached it from the Old Testament exactly so.
Today, you know what? I think if we just slow down and
made became better students of the Old Testament, we should be
able to argue that. Jesus is the Messiah.
From the Old Testament, Just like the 1st century church did,
right? Yeah, it's good.

(01:12:39):
That's good. OK, so you told.
Me. You.
Had a Bible verse from the Old Testament that proves that Jesus
Messiah I could pull it up here on the logos too.
And will your will your audiencesee it Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's a screen here you. Probably can't see it, but
there's a screen that's. So here we go.
OK, what's the this is the Everlasting Jew stopper.
OK. Proverbs 30 verse 4 before you

(01:13:02):
read it back. Back story every time.
For nearly 50 years. That I've read this to a rabbi
or a Jewish friend, I'll do it in English.
Because that's what I know. They will tell me, I'm sure
that's. A mistranslation.

(01:13:22):
I'm sure that's wrong. It can't be that in Hebrew.
I I've heard that a couple timesfrom folks who.
Are they don't like the Isaiah Jewish folks that don't like the
Isaiah passages? And they're like, oh, that was
contaminated. And that's the yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's what they're told. Yeah.
They called it the Forbidden Scripture.
The rabbis told them yeah, because it a suffering servant
is just like spitting image of Jesus.
Yeah, so guess what? This is cool.

(01:13:43):
I'm so glad you just said this. I'm.
Going to give you a forbidden verse.
OK, here's the cool thing. How many wait before before you
get there? Because.
Because I literally. Were going how many forbidden
verses are there for the Jews you're you're talking about?
And I'm not going to get them all.
You're talking about Isaiah 7, Isaiah 9.
You're talking about Isaiah 53, forbidden.

(01:14:05):
You're talking about Daniel the book Forbidden, you said.
Why would they? Forbid Daniel.
Because eventually you're going to get to Daniel Chapter 9.
If you keep reading Daniel Chapter 9, you're going to get
the verses 24 to 27. OK, and here's one of them.
Here's. One that has slipped through.
So did they take it out of theirBible?

(01:14:26):
Did they take it out? They don't take.
It out. They just don't read.
Them, they tell them, they tell them, you skip this.
I, I tell you what very prominent, very, very prominent
Jew visiting Los Angeles knows who I am, came to my house.
We started talking Scripture. What he wasn't ready for is that

(01:14:50):
I said, I want to show you Messiah Yahshua from the Old
Testament. He said that's impossible.
This is going to be great, go ahead.
So I start doing it and he says,for example, first of all, that
verse you just said, what verse?They pierced his hands and his
feet. Don't tell me old.

(01:15:11):
Don't tell me New Testament. I didn't.
It's Psalm 22. He said, no, it's not.
I said, do you have your Hebrew Bible?
He said, of course I do. I have it on my phone.
He goes, he reads in Hebrew, Psalm 22, he's he breaks off in
English. Him and his wife start yelling
at each other. You know what they were?

(01:15:31):
You know what they were yelling about?
Neither one of them growing up. He grew up in Yemen.
She grew up in Israel. Neither one of their rabbis ever
told them about Psalm 22. Why would he?
It proves that the Messiah wouldbe pierced in His hands and His
feet. So here's the whopper.
It is Proverbs 30, verse 4. It slipped through.

(01:15:54):
They failed to block this one. OK, can you read it?
I'm going to put on the screen. And if you're Hebrew?
Go read it in Hebrew. OK, so I got.
I got it up in the NOTI can pullup any translation.
You want but Proverbs chapter 30verse 4 says who?
But God goes up to heaven and comes back down?
Who holds the wind in his fists?Who wraps up the oceans in his

(01:16:14):
cloak? Who has created the whole wide
world? What is his name and his son's
name? Tell me if you know.
Yeah, that's good. So.
Yeah, yeah. That's.
Good, that's good. That's.
Great, so all. Around the Dome of the Rock
Mosque. It's in blue and.

(01:16:35):
Yellow font. Arabic, you know what it says?
God is not begotten. OK, I agree.
God was never born. I get it.
He's eternal. God was not begotten, nor does
God have a son. Did you know it says that in
Arabic all around the Dome of the Rock mosque?
Why is that? Why is that a big deal?

(01:16:55):
Why do Muslims want the world toknow that God doesn't have a
son? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's good. That's good.
No, that's great. All right.
I think you made a really strongcase for this.
OK, can I ask you a couple more questions about this and and we
can move on, talk about whateveryou want.
So the, the the John Hagee is the dual covenant theology guy

(01:17:16):
that says that Jews don't need to be saved.
That's who he is. And I think that gets lumped in
with dispensationalism. It sounds like pretty prominent
voice. Tragically, I could not.
I don't. Know how to say it other than I
could not disagree more. Yeah.
OK, All right, I'm going to. I'm going.
To ask a controversial question,OK, but it but it is.

(01:17:37):
I think it's good. How do I ask this?
OK, so establishment of Israel. 1948 there's this miraculous
wars that keep winning and keep winning and keep winning and
it's like man, how is this smallnation defeating all these
other, you know, Arab nations and it it, it sure does seem
like there is prophecy being fulfilled throughout the last 80

(01:18:01):
years with Israel. But then I think 1 can argue or
or you could see how some peoplecan take that and and.
Go to an. Unhealthy.
Extreme, of course, with the eschatology lumped in.
OK, so one of the things that isn't often talked about but was
brought to light by a Calvary Chapel pastor is Chuck Smith's

(01:18:23):
views in the 80s around not datesetting, but definitely, hey,
within this year, within this decade, the the Messiah is going
to return based on some of this dispensationalist framework with
regards to, you know, the establishment of Israel of the
nation. And so it's not often talked

(01:18:44):
about in Calvary Chapel circles,but he did.
Again, he didn't say dates and he wouldn't call them
prophecies, but there were some predictions made about years
that Jesus was going to call. I want to say 1984 was one of
them. I'll do better than that for
you. He said it every year and I'm.
Going to tell you how I was there, Chuck Smith would say at
the end or the beginning of every year and we would always

(01:19:08):
wait to hear what is next. Jingle would be.
Chuck would say something like. This.
We could be in heaven in 77. It could be great in 78.
The Lord could come back if he. Does it's going to be?

(01:19:30):
Fine, in 79, Chuck did that every year.
And if you look at the genesis of the criticism, you will hear
Chuck Smith say things like I wouldn't doubt if the Lord comes
back soon. Heck, I say that, but I've never
heard Chuck Smith say June 9th is the day.

(01:19:52):
So yeah, if. You want to look if you want to
say. He said, he alluded, He alluded
that the Lord could come back in, in and you know, 72 by what
he said. If you want to take it that way,
OK, but he didn't tell you a dayor the hour.

(01:20:13):
Chuck Smith believed in what hasbeen the traditional view taken
out of First Thessalonians four among other scriptures, and that
is what a premillennial pre tribulational futurist
literalist. See if I'm missing something,

(01:20:34):
believes and that is from scripture.
There's the understanding of thedoctrine of eminency and nobody
taught that more clearly than Doctor John Wolfrid.
He's now gone, but he was probably the greatest living S
catalog S catalog. S catalog logical theologian on

(01:20:56):
end time prophecy. That said.
There are those who will say, for example, in the those that
are in the AWE millennial camp, there is no doctrine of
imminency. That's false doctrine.
I hear it all the time. So you don't believe Jesus could
come back to the church at any time He so chooses?
He could have come back. He could come back next week, 10

(01:21:18):
years, 100 years from now. Or he could have come back last
month. Nope.
OK, well I disagree. So people get very passionate
about that. Look, I'm ready to live and die
of old age, but I'm also ready to meet Jesus.
Amen. Amen.
Yeah, I think I'm working my buns off, by the way.
I mean, I know a lot of. Pastors, and I'm boasting in the

(01:21:39):
Lord. OK?
If you knew my schedule, I'd invite you to know it.
If you see how little I sleep and what I do, you can ask me
any question you want. I am living at full throttle to
try to obey Jesus and everythingbecause he could come back
today, but I'm ready to die of old age.

(01:22:00):
Does that make sense? I think it's harder to live that
way, but I'm also eager at the same time.
Yeah, No, I'm with you. OK, So let me just clarify what
he. Actually did said what he did
not say. OK, so it was the teaching of
the fig tree in Mark 1328 through 30.
And the, and Mike Winger did a video about this, like a really
in depth video about this meaning the generation that saw

(01:22:21):
Israel become a nation in 1948 would witness Jesus's return.
So it sounded like it was a kindof a misinterpretation of Mark
1328. Mark Mike goes into that.
And so he in 1989, Smith admitted he was guilty of coming
close to date to date setting. He was guilty of this is his
quote of date setting acknowledging that this was

(01:22:43):
wrong according to the American vision.
But he never did set a date. But he was guilty of coming
close to date setting. Even if you did not read, he
said that he was guilty. I would say to you that would
have been wrong for him to say the the prophecy.
I mean the Mark passage in. Applying that to well, no, I'm
no, I mean the the blossoming ofthe fig.
Tree is the reason why it's in the Bible.

(01:23:04):
There's a reason why Jesus said it.
But winger who I love, he just spoke at our church, by the way,
last week. Love that guy.
He Winger, I assume because he'sso thorough.
He would have pointed out also that the word generation is
translated in very that one wordis translated with various
meanings. Be that as it may, here we are.
What? How you said it earlier, 80

(01:23:24):
years, almost 80 years. Yeah, well, 1948 is when Israel
was founded again. So what is that?
It's a lot of years. I don't know.
It's like like. 70. Seven years. 76 years.
That said, yeah, I, I. If I'm glad, Chuck.
Smith said. I came really close to making a
Boo Boo there because I would have said that's that's, that's

(01:23:47):
getting too close. That's a Boo Boo.
Yeah, yeah, that's good. It's good that no one.
Has no one? As far as I know, no one in the
Calvary Chapel has came close todoing that.
Not that I'm aware of. Yeah, Which I think is good.
No, this is good. OK, so this is my view of
eschatology. You told me what you think of
it. Luke 19.
Jesus in the KJV is talking about the 10 bags of gold.

(01:24:09):
It's similar to the parable of the talents and he uses this
phrase in the KJV that I like occupy until I come.
And in Matthew 25, right after all the spooky stuff in Matthew
24, we see the imminency of Christ preached in the parable
of the wise and foolish virgins,which then goes into the parable
of the talents and then goes into caring for the least of

(01:24:33):
these in the last days and separate, separating the sheep
from the goats. So my view of eschatology is I
don't take a strong stance on any of it.
I, I, I just try to see what thescripture say and go with that.
But I do think we need to live as if Jesus can come back at any
minute by making the most of ourtime, talent and treasure to 1st
care for our own family, but then also do good on to others,

(01:24:53):
especially those within the House of faith.
And so I think there lies the the the biblical framework
regardless on if you're a millennial premillennial post
millennial. I'm a pan millennial.
I think it'll all work out somehow.
But I live as if Jesus could come back at any moment time.
But I'm also thinking about my grandkids and I'm also thinking
about their grandkids. You are occupying till he comes.
I'm I'm I'm occupying so like. Oh, I did a whole emotional.

(01:25:16):
On it right here. So I'm pre millennial, pre
tribulation. But I have set up I I've set up
retirement funds. I hope they don't watch this.
I've set up retirement funds formy children and grandchildren.
Come on. Yeah.
Why do? Why did I do that?
I had. No biblical upbringing.
You know what I was reading through the book of Proverbs

(01:25:37):
many years ago. Come on.
And it said that I should provide for my family instead of
the my family providing for me and my old age.
That switch came on. But I am I am so in love with
the doctrine of imminency. But I have a retirement plan for
my kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I think the the the see this is a.

(01:25:57):
Healthy view of eschatology, right?
Because what's happened, and I don't know how much you probably
don't keep up with like TikTok theology, but there was a whole,
there was a whole thing just just in September of multiple
folks who set dates. They're not established or
connected to any churches, but they set multiple dates and push
the dates back and push the dates back and then push the
dates back. And folks just selling houses,
they're selling cars, they're giving away stuff.

(01:26:18):
OK, come on. One, one lady gave away one lady
a call to CPS on herself that they would take her kids right.
And this stuff is this stuff is happening.
And so that what you're describing, I think it's a
biblical healthy framework of how we navigate these
conversations. Proverbs also says, you know,
righteous man leaves an inheritance for his
grandchildren, right? A father's gift houses.

(01:26:39):
And so I think there's a tensionthere of man Jesus can come back
at any time. However, I'm still called to
occupy. I'm still called to provide.
I'm still called to leave an inheritance.
And I think that's the the part that is is hard for younger
believers because they're all all or nothing in their
thinking. I want to encourage those
younger believers. It's.

(01:27:00):
Not just the younger. I'll give you a real life story.
So during Trump's first administration, I was called to
Washington, DC to be on Trump's advisory team when I showed up
and people. Were being introduced to others.
This one guy, I forget what he'sfrom, doesn't matter, he said.
What are you doing here? I said that's a great question.

(01:27:21):
I got called to be here. I don't even know what I'm doing
here. And he said, no, no, no, no.
What are you doing here? You're a covered Chapel guy,
right? I go, yeah.
Don't you believe Jesus could come back at any time?
Yeah, Well, then what are you doing here?
And I said, man, dude, I'm not tracking.
He said, if you believe that Jesus could come back at any
time, why don't you just go backto California and surf and just

(01:27:41):
wait it out? And I said, man, because I've
got grandkids. I said, dude, I'm here to fight.
Come on, I don't know when he's coming.
Back, but when the president asked you to come and give
advice on spiritual matters, I mean, I'm just following Old
Testament, man. If Uzziah opens up the door and
ask Isaiah to come in and talk to him, I'm going.
Well, I just didn't think you Calvary guys would even care

(01:28:04):
about the future because you think you're going to be out of
here. I said, man, I don't know what
Calvary people, you know, but ifthey're like that, they're crazy
because we've got to be ready tomeet him.
Look, here's what's fun about this.
Yeah, but what if Jesus doesn't come back today?
Hey, he doesn't come. Back today.
But what have you dropped dead today?
Are you ready to meet him? Yeah.

(01:28:24):
Yeah. How about if we lived every day?
Like we're going to. Drop dead and it's our last
chance to invest in the Kingdom.I love that.
I love that you brought up Trump.
Perfect segue. Christian nationalism.
Yeah. There's a lot of conversation, a
lot of hoopla around Christian nationalism.
A gentleman from your church, Mike Lusso.
I don't know if you know who Mike Lusso is.
He's a great up and coming creator on YouTube.

(01:28:48):
Gosh, no. Mike, come and say hi to me,
will you? Yeah.
He did a video on. How he thinks Christian
nationalism or the term Christian nationalism is a psyop
because there's so many versionsof it.
And depending on who you talk to, Christian nationalism could
mean, hey, we think we think we should outlaw abortion and
that's bad and we should not kill babies all the way to a a

(01:29:11):
Doug. Oh gosh, what is his name?
Doug Doug. He.
He. Pastors the church in.
Moscow post millennial. Oh, I gotta notice.
Oh man, I don't know Moscow ID or yeah Moscow Moscow ID give
me. One SEC Doug, is it Doug Reed?
Doug. Pastors Church, let's go.
Gosh, I can't believe I'm tryingto make sorry in Moscow.

(01:29:35):
Doug, Doug. Doug Wilson.
We'll clip that out. Doug Wilson, who also close to
what people are calling Christian nationalism and then
his version of, Hey, we, you know, women shouldn't vote.
This is kind of one of the things that gets back to women
shouldn't vote. It should be 1 vote per
household. So people go, wait a minute.
I, I want, I want to legislate Christian values and I want to
legislate Christian morality, but it's kind of like, don't let

(01:29:58):
women vote. That's kind of weird, you know,
And, and other than that, I really like a lot of Doug Wilson
stuff on Christian nationalism. And then I'm hearing there's
folks that want a, a Christian Prince to rise up and to
overthrow the government. You know, it's just like there's
like 4 different versions of Christian nationalism that I'm
hearing about. So you're educating me.
Yes. Because I've never heard that
before. Yeah.
Oh. There's all kinds of weird stuff
that that gets back to her. Yeah, so Doug Wilson, I mean,

(01:30:20):
again, I like Doug Wilson. He's a post millennial.
So he's a, he's a, he's a, he's going to take a preterist view
of most of the eschatologist in Matthew 24 and Revelation, but
his approach to Christianize. And I'm like, Oh, that's fine.
I don't know about the women notvoting, but I I like everything
else you're talking about, you know, and so are there any women
in this church? I'm sure there's women in this

(01:30:41):
church who. Who don't vote?
I. Don't know if they don't vote,
that's a good question. So.
So again, what is your take on Christian nationalism?
Because I think it's one of these weird like boogeyman terms
that's kind of just used to like, you're a Christian
fascist, you're a Christian. Fascist.
Yeah, with. You teaching me right now?
Then I'm going to have to say. Yeah, it's got to be a boogeyman

(01:31:02):
thing because, I mean, this is how I take it.
In fact, I'm the guy. That said this and it's.
Been it's kind of gotten well known, I said at one of those
Trump rallies that don't expect the Messiah to arrive on Air

(01:31:25):
Force One. And so that took that got
traction. I also said don't look for the
answer in the State House or in the White House.
The answer is in God's house. Come on.
OK, I believe that with all my heart.
So that said, what do we know about our unique?
American. Experience.
You and I happen to be sitting in America right now.

(01:31:48):
If we were in Germany doing this, if we were native grown
Germans, we'd have a different story.
But we live in a constitutional Republic that has been given to
us, I believe, by God. I think Franklin and all those
dudes, they were moved by the hand of God.
We have this experiment. What does that mean?
That means God, who in my opinion didn't mention a a word

(01:32:10):
about America in the Bible. I don't see, I know people are
going to write you on this. I don't believe America's in the
Bible, period. You don't see its formation.
You don't see its end. It's not even there.
But what happened? The most evangelistic nation on
earth, the most powerful, the most wealthy, the most

(01:32:30):
beneficial for the for gospel atthe church, you name it, all
this stuff, OK, whatever. Why is it not in the Bible?
I don't know. That's God's business.
That said, and no one can doubt my patriotism.
I, my friends say, Jack, you were born 250 years too late.

(01:32:50):
I read everything I can on Jefferson, Adams, both Adams,
Hancock, I read it all. Mayhew, I read them all.
I love that stuff. That said, none of them, none of
them ever spoke about establishing God's.
Kingdom on Earth. None of them that said is.

(01:33:18):
I think you're saying to me thatthere.
Are people who believe. That the church is going to
generate some sort of a like what, a pastor's council that's
going to take the place of the government and America and
America's going to be a Christian nation.
Yeah. I don't want to speak on behalf
of them. I don't want to speak on behalf
of. Them.
But again, Doug Wilson did a great interview with The Young

(01:33:38):
Turks. He went into pretty leftist
territory. And the way he explains it, I
go, I'll get behind that. I'm not mad at it.
You don't You don't think it canhappen at all?
I don't think I don't do anything.
It can't happen. Anybody who thinks it can happen
is probably in the replacement theology camp.
I I think he would, I don't knowif he would use that language,
but they would probably say, come on.

(01:33:59):
Either that or they're flirting with it.
Covenant. Covenant.
Theology. But you OK, Sir?
So you're thinking. America is so great.
That that's what's going to happen.
They might say, I'm trying to, I'm trying to get in their head
right now instantly. So help me out, be merciful.
But I'm thinking maybe you got William Bradford and you've got
our Pilgrim Fathers who said things like, hey, we'll be the

(01:34:23):
city on a hill. Look at this Great American
thing. OK, If that is, is that what
you're thinking? I think you took their thoughts
a little too far. They didn't write that, but my
goodness, a Christian nationalist, I'm a Christian,
and I've been asked by the Republican Party to run for

(01:34:44):
office. But two things kept me from
doing it #1 God's called me to be a pastor #2 the Republicans
are all screwed up. Why would I do that?
I can. Impact more people on the.
Sunday I reach 100,000 people onthe Sunday.
Why would I? Why would I run for Congress?
You say, Oh, so you don't believe I get involved?

(01:35:05):
I didn't say that. John Jay, the first Supreme
Court Justice of the United States, John Jay said we prefer
Christians to run for office. That's one of our founding
fathers. John Adams famously said our
nation, our Constitution, has been developed and given to

(01:35:27):
govern this. Country, right, He said.
It only works for a moral and a religious people.
It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other.
That said, I do not believe that.
If that's Christian nationalism,I am not that.
But if you're going to label me a Christian nationalist because

(01:35:48):
I have an American flag on the front of my house, I will tell
you I didn't have one on there until I went to Home Depot on
September 11th, 2001, on that Tuesday, and I went and bought
an American flag and put it on my house.
It's been there ever since. OK, Am I, Would I fight to
defend this Constitution and your children's ability to grow

(01:36:09):
up free? I'd give my life for that.
Or you're a nationalist. You know what?
If you want to be something, go think whatever you think.
But I believe that if you live in Canada, you should love
Canada enough to pray for it. Jeremiah 29, verse 7 says that
wherever you are, cap in captivity, pray for, pray for

(01:36:29):
the peace and prosperity of the city, which I've called you in.
Yeah. Boom.
Shouldn't the Germans be nationalistic?
About Germany, How about the Italians?
Or I wish the French would. We.
Should be. We should take care of our
country. Amen.
No, I'm with you, man. Worship my country.
I don't worship my. Country.
OK, so this brings me to WE. Kind of ended here.
On this last question, so this is something that I've wrestled

(01:36:51):
with, you know, I, I was not a big Trump guy throughout the his
whole rise. I have to agree.
But in 2024 I I'm seeing with with the leftist running I'm
seeing you know, you, you know the stuff that's happening in
California. We got gay civic study being gay

(01:37:11):
civic studies being mandated to elementary school kids.
That's that's what happened in Glendale.
That's why the Armenians almost rioted in Glendale.
Thank God mandatory they couldn't opt out of it.
When I was a kid, the Christian parents, I didn't grow up
Christian, but the Christian home school they could they
could they could opt out. They.
Could opt out of sex Ed. That's right.
Now they were trying to press, you know, gay civic studies on
elementary school kids. You got, you know, men could

(01:37:33):
become women. Men can use women's spaces.
Men can compete in women's sports.
You got abortion, not just what is it legal, safe and rare.
Abortion is now reproductive rights.
There's an abortion, it's healthclinic, it's healthcare.
It's it's, it's, it's outside ofthe DNC.
And so for the first time as a guy, that's more or less been
its interest. I found myself pushed to the

(01:37:54):
right and, and I and I but I didfeel very conflicted with Trump
and I'll tell you why outside ofthe rhetoric and and him knowing
how to get attention. Man, this is a dude that's been
divorced multiple times. This is a dude that clearly
doesn't understand salvation, doesn't understand the grace of
God, doesn't understand what gets into heaven.
It's a dude that's had quite a lot of sexual allegations

(01:38:15):
against. Him Now I'm not saying those.
Are all true. We don't know if they're true,
but there's OK, there's a lot when there when.
There's smoke there usually. Is fire, but maybe he maybe he's
a great guy and just has a a bulls on his back.
I don't know, and it and it was hard for me, it's hard for me to
vote for him. And I remember the day of the
election, I had just gotten backfrom a speaking thing.
My son was talking, We were having this conversation, Panera

(01:38:36):
and and and I said, and he asked, he's asking he's he's 10.
So he's asking me about the he's9 at the time.
He's asking about the election. And I go, you know, son, there's
is a guy running Trump who I agree with on his policies, but
he has he has a questionable character, but I agree with him
more than I disagree with him on.
And then as a lady running who seems to have a a good

(01:38:57):
character. She's married and as far as I
know, she seems to be upright, generally speaking, but I
disagree with her on almost everything, everything top to
bottom. There you go.
And it was at that moment when Isaid that to my.
To my 10 year. Old I went in and I and I voted
for Trump, begrudgingly. I voted for Trump and I didn't
endorse him during the campaign,but I definitely railed against

(01:39:17):
Harris because because we're in California.
I remember her. I remember that we know her.
The mess that she's done. By the way, folks, we know Gavin
Newsom. That's like nobody.
That's right. That's right.
And so how do you navigate? That as a, as a, as a follower
of Jesus, you, you've you've prayed for him, you've been
around him. Yeah.
He needs the gospel privately. I I spoke with him the day after
he was shot. Yeah, yeah, and it and it

(01:39:38):
definitely seems like the lower.Or preserved him.
Come on, I have no doubt about that stuff.
I mean, come on, what are you going to say that's.
Luck. Yeah.
Yeah, Well. There are some.
People that know but I don't not.
Luck, you know, that's cool. Full on conspiracy.
I don't believe in that stuff because of this one.
Biblical reason. There's no word in Hebrew in the
Bible, or the word. Coincidence.

(01:40:00):
Yeah. Yeah, it's good.
I don't believe in luck. That said, so how do you?
How do you? Wrestle with this.
How do you reconcile with this? I didn't do the same.
Thing you did and basically. It's this.
I would hope that the flock at Chino Hills that I'm their
pastor, hope they know that I love them and I will throw
myself under the bus to tell them the truth.
OK. I would never expect Trump to do

(01:40:21):
that because he's not a pastor. I'm not voting for a pastor.
I want a guy with with the best policies possible, right.
Well, this moral. Thing and that moral thing.
And this thing and his hair and his comment to Rosie O'Donnell.
I don't like any of it either, but God sets up.

(01:40:44):
Kings. He takes down kings, God.
Gave us a choice between two people.
I think I'm going to be responsible for picking one of
these people. Or you expect listen to this.
Do you expect me to pick the lesser of the two evils?
Yes, of course I do. Well, how do I know which one?
And you nailed it. Thank God you nailed it.

(01:41:05):
Policies. Yeah, yeah, policies.
Let me, let me let me ask you about this.
And. This is something that I'm post
Trump, you know, we're seeing. I think what the Biden
administration did with the border was a complete train
wreck. Catch and release in America
versus catch and release in Mexico.
You have to experience. Yeah, really bad.
The fruit of that, yeah. Really, really bad policy.
I think the overcorrection to that, I think Trump locked

(01:41:28):
locked down the borders and I think.
That was great, but some of. The overcorrections that may
seem like, and again, I don't know how much of this is
verified is the, hey, there's a difference between like, I think
everybody's like get the criminals out.
Like get the criminals out there.
If you, if you got a criminal record, you're a bad guy, you
should go. But when you're, you're hearing
reports and again, I don't know how much of this is verified of
like, hey, this abuela has been here for 20 years.

(01:41:50):
These folks have been here for 30 years.
They don't have a criminal record.
And it seems like some of those folks are getting caught up in
it. I understand that every
immigrant took a risk to come here if they came here legally.
I get that. But it seems like some of that
kind of misses the mark on the on the Old Testament verses with
regarding to welcoming in the foreigner and the exiled,
especially folks that that that have assimilated, that have done

(01:42:11):
their their part to assimilate. How do you how do you wrestle
with that? Let me first of all say just
just moving forward for you. They'll those Old Testament
verses about the foreigner coming in, They, those were
converts to Judaism. Yeah.
Of course they became Jews. Yes, yes, of course.
It's important. No, absolutely.
I'm with you. OK, that's it.
So. I'm not at liberty to say right

(01:42:35):
now some things that are being done, which are.
Really good. Why?
Why Gnome is not saying these things?
Or Homan? I don't know why, but there's
there's good things off to the side now.
I can't I I don't. Want to get into?
That I wish I could. Maybe later I'll let you know if

(01:42:58):
maybe you can tell me off the record.
OK all. Right.
So a an address is given. There's a guy here who is a
pedophile, illegal. He's in this home.
Inside that home are 7 illegals that are.

(01:43:18):
Working. Paying taxes.
In fact, one of them went into the Marine Corps.
They're good people, undocumented.
Illegal. So what happens?
This is this is what? Happens and.
You know what I mean? If you're, if you're game, I
could set up where you and I could get and you and I could go
on on a on a raid, this is what happens.

(01:43:42):
You got a bad guy. Sitting in the middle of a bunch
of good people, how you going? To get the bad guy.
They rush in. They.
Drop the net. Imagine we're off the coast
here. You throw your net out in the
water, you pull it in and then you get this one over here and
this. One over here and this one over
here. And then the here he is, this

(01:44:03):
guy goes away. They all go back home.
You and I are. Being.
Flirted with the thought how sadthey all got deported.
It's not happening. You're saying that's not the
official policy? No.
But I I will. File a grievance on your on your

(01:44:23):
podcast. I do not know.
And I I've been told you never want to play ever.
Do you ever want to play poker with Trump?
You're going to lose. Why doesn't he let people see
what's going on? Because it's great.
Instead, all the bad news, all these people got rounded up.

(01:44:47):
Well, they had to round up mall to get that one guy and they let
the others loose. Why doesn't he let that out?
Here's my psychology to it. I'm probably wrong, maybe not.
I think Trump being a man of theworld and being a you don't mess
with him. You know he's going.
To come back and get you. I think he'll.

(01:45:09):
Risk off the. Record doing the right thing
without cameras being seen on itso that the legal community
community is petrified because that one guy that they're trying
to get, they want that. Bad guy so bad.
That they're OK with the rest ofthe group feeling uncomfortable

(01:45:31):
until it happens to them and then they realize wow it is true
he only wanted that bad guy, Why?
Why don't they market that? I think he has a strategy.
I just don't know what it is. Does that make sense?
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. No, I, I, I hope, I hope you're
right. That's.
Great. I I that sounds very sensible.
That looks different. Yeah.
All right, Pastor Jack, any. Any final words?

(01:45:52):
Before we get out of this is great.
I got to have you back sometime.I believe that deeper we've gone
almost an hour and 45 so. Listen, I love being.
With you, it's incredible. I'm so.
I'm so delighted with your success and that you're
grounded. I'm doing my best, doing my
best. All right, guys, we're going to
get out. Of here follow pastor Jack Hibbs
check him out a lot of great stuff and if you're anywhere
near Chino Hills we always are trying to get you guys in

(01:46:15):
churches. Please check out his church.
All right, we'll see you guys later.
Peace.

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