Is Modern Israel in Bible Prophecy?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
God's going to execute judgement.
So imagine this like World War 3happens and now everyone's
looking for someone to bring peace.
Like what Jesus said, when you start seeing the seasons, when
you start seeing these signs start to come to pass, like look
up, like there something's aboutto happen.
Which is what Ted Cruz did, right.
He's taking a verse from Abraham, and he'll probably take

(00:21):
a verse like this and say, and therefore all Israel.
And there's a lot of sketchy stuff about Mossad.
Not to go down the conspiratorial rap.
They're just folks that are saying that Mossad and the CIA
worked on the Epstein list and that's why that list is not
coming out. You can try to fit like a square
peg in a round hole, but at the end of the day you have to look
at all of the details that are encompassed.

(00:42):
You never answer my question. Is the Antichrist we just call?
I mean the Antichrist is just a cool name too so.
So like Bruce? Line.
Guys, before we get into that conversation, I just want to
take a moment to introduce myself.
My name is Ruslan. This channel exists to
encourage, empower, and inspire you to live a life that blesses
God. So if this your first time
watching me, thank you so much. I'm super grateful you're here.

(01:03):
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That really means the world to me.
We're on the verge of reaching 800,000 subscribers and I would
love to celebrate that with you.Also, if you're not new here,
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we got my very first book ever with a major publishing godly
ambition. This book really is taking

(01:25):
everything I learned in the past20 years and packaging it in a
way to help you get on the fast track from where I was, which
was struggling with side hustlesin debt, trying to figure out my
calling, to now being on the other side of that with running
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all over the world and ultimately operating for God's

(01:46):
true calling for my life and notjust what I wanted for my life.
And that transformation is exactly what I outlined for you
who to achieve in this book? Godly Ambition, unlocking the
full potential of your time, talent and treasure.
It comes out September 9th, but you could pre-order it at any
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(02:07):
mygodlyambition.com and hit claim pre-order access.
So if you're struggling to find your true God-given calling, you
should absolutely pick up Godly Ambition right now.
All right, let's jump into this conversation.
All right, ladies and gentlemen,today's guest, new friend, new
friend of the channels, Jonathanfrom ear to hear.
Thanks for having me. Dude, thanks for being here man

(02:27):
Appreciate you. We getting a nice beautiful
endorsement for the book from you.
I think you'll like it man. Your channel has been blowing
up. We got to connect in person at
the Blessed God Summit and I've enjoyed a lot of your work.
I think you do really good work with the type of Evergreen
topics that you make that I feellike are felt needs.

(02:49):
And I want to get into a bit of your story as well.
But what sparked this conversation was that I did a
video, gosh, a couple weeks ago about Israel, and specifically,
I think it was Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz.
Ted Cruz And so it sounds like you, I feel like I take like a
middle ground between what someone will call covenant

(03:11):
theology and or replacement theology, which is like the
church replaced Israel, right? And dispensationalism, which
perhaps I have a straw man definition of.
And dispensationalism, I've always heard it to understand
kind of like, yeah, like the Jews are still kind of under a
different covenant. Like they're still kind of
saved, right, Even though they don't know Jesus and they reject

(03:34):
Jesus and they reject the gospeland sometimes say awful,
horrible things about Jesus, right.
And so when I kind of went over my views, which I maybe we'll
get into Romans 11 and all Israel will be saved.
You reached out and you were like, hey, like, I think you're
more of a dispensationalist thanyou than you think you are.
Let's talk about it. And I was like, dude, let's talk
about it. And I was like, oh, this would

(03:54):
be a great podcast. I never told you that.
So you showed up thinking we were just going to have a Bible
study. Let's do it though.
We're books and and we are, we're going to have a bit of a
conversation on dispensationalism and you're
going to kind of give us the best pitch for it and and see if
you persuade me in the audience.Does that sound fair?

(04:15):
Sounds great. OK.
So is that, is that a accurate recollection?
And what was it about that videothat you kind of, I guess I
don't know, disagreed with or found alarming or whatever?
So, yeah, I, I only watched the video once, but from what I
watched, it kind of felt like you were saying that
dispensationalists believe that,that Israel, that the

(04:36):
dispensationalists believe that Israel is still saved, like they
can go to heaven, they're still saved regardless of whether
they've put their faith in JesusChrist.
And that's not at all what we believe.
What we believe is in a literal understanding of the Bible.
So words have to mean something.If we're having this

(04:57):
conversation right now, for example, you mentioned you have
this book that's that's going tobe coming out soon.
You know, so you've got this book that's coming out.
It's coming out in a couple months.
You being able to say those words to me, I'm able to
understand those words and derive meaning from those words,
correct? I'm, I'm not here sitting here

(05:18):
saying no. What he really means is that the
book actually represents his heart.
And the two months doesn't mean a literal 2 months.
It just means a long duration oftime.
So Ruslan's really just saying that he just loves all of us
over a long period of time. This is what a lot of covenant
theology people at, from what I've heard.

(05:40):
And and you know, it's too bad we don't have someone sitting
here to kind of tell us because.They're going to torch us in the
comments for. This so you know, well, go
ahead. Why didn't you have a covenant
theology person? Yeah, yeah.
We'll put it in the comments. I'd love to hear from some some
more people on this, but from myunderstanding is they they take
the Old Testament and they turn the Old Testament into one big

(06:02):
allegory into one big symbol. Is it hold on, but wait a
second. Is that is that because I think
the framing of that. Yeah.
Cut to me, Chris Mack, you good with the camera when it goes
over there? OK.
I think the framing of that is abit unfair though, like, because
because it kind of implies that like folks who hold to covenant
theology, which I don't think I do, but they they they don't

(06:23):
take the Bible literally or theydon't take it seriously, you
know, so it's like you're you'rekind of implying that, which I
think they do. And I don't think the entire Old
Testament is is an allegory. I think it's does God's covenant
remain with ethnic Israel or is the church today the, the

(06:43):
fulfillment of said covenant andthe, and the new people that are
both Gentiles and Jews that are that are grafted in right.
So I don't say I don't think covenant theology people don't
take the Bible literally. I think they do.
And I don't think it's all one big allegory.
I think it's like, Hey, these people who are ethnically God's
people all remained to some extent and some of them became

(07:07):
Christians. But the Gentiles are crafted and
now it's it's, it is no longer Jew, no longer Greek, no longer
slave, no longer free. So I just want to make sure
we're accurate because I don't think it's just like they just
take it all allegorically. So I I want to explain what I
mean by that. OK, so covenant theology
believes in the covenant of works which happened in the

(07:29):
Garden of Eden. They believe that there was this
covenant made between God the Father, God the Son, God the
Holy Spirit, and that if Adam and Eve did not eat of the fruit
that they would get all of theseblessings.
And if they did eat of the fruit, then you know the
downfall of mankind. Then they believe in the
covenant. And by the way, I'm doing my

(07:50):
best to represent it. But again, and go ahead and put
in the comments what you what you actually believe, but this
is the way that I understand it.So then there's the covenant of
grace afterwards. And grace has to do with the
salvation of mankind. And so they'll say that
throughout the Old Testament, all of that was leading up to

(08:11):
Jesus Christ, which, yeah, I I agree with that.
All that was leading up to JesusChrist, after Jesus Christ died
on the cross and rose again and revealed, you know, all these
mysteries. Now what we have to do when we
look back at the Old Testament is we have to view it through
that lens. So we have to view the Old

(08:32):
Testament through the lens of Jesus Christ.
Now what what I'm saying as a dispensationalist is I believe
that every passage of the Bible can only have one meaning.
So, for example, when Abraham was promised by God that he was

(08:53):
going to receive a very specificlot of land, the Bible says
that, you know, God spoke to Abraham and said from the Nile
River in Egypt all the way up here to the Euphrates River, all
of that span of land is going tobe yours.
And so, and, and, and then there's all of these other

(09:15):
blessings, all of these promises, right, that are
promised to Abraham and his seed.
Well, we learn more as you read in the story that that seed is
not, it's not Ishmael. It comes through Isaac.
Then the story develops more. You realize it's coming from
Jacob. It's coming from these 12
tribes. Jacob's name is changed to
Israel. Now they're the children of
Israel. Eventually, they're the nation

(09:36):
of Israel. So it's so the Bible's pretty
consistent in the Old Testament on what these different terms
are. This is how the Jews understood
these terms. And I think if anybody just
picked up a Bible and started reading it, this is how they
understand it. What I've heard from a lot of
covenant theology folks is that no, that that land promise

(09:59):
wasn't a literal land promise. That land promise was somehow a
symbol of something greater. OK.
So that's what you mean by allegory?
That's what I mean by allegory. OK, OK, yes, that there's that a
lot of what, a lot of what took place in the Old Testament with
Israel was simply a symbol. It was an allegory to show us

(10:22):
about the relationship between the church and Christ, and I
would say there's some application that we can draw
from that, but that's not the core meaning of the passage.
So from your perspective, God has two groups of people or one
group of people that belong to him?
The entire world belongs to God.OK, I'm.
Talking about the people he is in covenant.
So that's where dispensationalism comes in.

(10:42):
OK, so the idea of dispensationalism is that God
works in, in periods, different dispensations that God works in.
Yeah, God works in eras. He works in dispensations,
correct? In fact, in Acts, in Acts
chapter 1. I could pull it up on the screen
too if you want to. What translation are you
reading? I'm reading the new King James.

(11:05):
Let's see, give me a SEC. Let me know when you're ready
for it. Almost.
What the heck? I think I have a new King James
on here. I have a King James.
It's all good. Yeah, what?
Whatever version you want to useis fine.
I'll just do that. I'll just do the NIV.

(11:26):
What's the acts? What?
It's it's Acts chapter one, verse six.
OK, so Jesus is risen from the dead.
He's he's talking to the 12 and it says, therefore, when they
had come together, they asked him saying, Lord, will you at
this time restore the Kingdom ofIsrael?

(11:46):
So they obviously thought that the Kingdom of Israel was going
to be restored that the physical, literal Kingdom of
Israel, right, Because that's what all of these promises were
pointing to. It was like there's going to be
a Messiah that's going to come. He's going to sit on the throne
of David. He's going to rule in the city
and you know that there's going to be this blessing across the

(12:07):
whole world. That's what God promised
Abraham, that I'm going to blessyour descendants and from them
they're going to become a blessing to the whole world.
And then Jesus says, and it says, and he said to them, it is
not for you to know the times orthe seasons which the Father has
put in his own authority. And I'll just stop right there.

(12:27):
But that's this idea of times orseasons or dispensations.
The dispensationalist believes that God works in these
different seasons of time. So, so you have, for example,
Adam and Eve. That was a dispensation.
Adam and Eve were living in the garden.

(12:48):
This was a period of time where God was relating to them in a
very specific way. Then after they eat the fruit,
then they entered into a new dispensation where it was like,
OK, you can't be in the garden anymore, we're kicking you out
and you're going to have to workthe ground.
So now there was a different wayof relating to God at that
point. Then you Fast forward to Moses
at, at or sorry, Fast forward toAbraham.

(13:11):
And so all this stuff has happened, the flood tower of
Babel, there's all these scattered nations.
And then you Fast forward to Abraham and God does something
new. There's a, there's now a new
dispensation that takes place where God says, I'm actually
going to take one specific man who is a total Pagan and I'm
going to choose him. I'm going to, he's going to be

(13:34):
my elect. And from him is going to be a
nation that's going to bless theworld like I just heard then you
got Moses at Mount Sinai. There's the law that comes down
God says here's and now a new way of relating to me.
You have Jesus Christ coming andnow what dispensationalists
would call this time is the the age of grace.
So, so there's two things that we have to reconcile at this

(13:56):
point #1 we're only saved by grace, right?
It's not by works that any man is saved.
So we're no longer under this Mosaic covenant, This, this the,
the law. We're not under the law, but yet
God still made all these promises to Abraham about land,
about Jerusalem, about the, the Jewish people.

(14:18):
And so that's why Paul in Romans, you know, Chapter 9
through 11, he's, he's like wrestling with this idea and
trying to explain it. And he's saying, look, the, the
Jews still has to get saved. They still have to become a
Christian. They still have to believe in
Jesus Christ. When Jesus said, when Jesus said
John 3 John 3/3/16 For God so loved the world that he gave his

(14:45):
only son, you know, whosoever believes in him shall not
perish. He was talking to a Jew.
He was talking to like one of the, one of the biggest Jews of
his day. So Jews still have to get saved.
But yet there's this, there's this covenant that was made with
Abraham. There was this land covenant.
So it's kind of like if you haveif, if a, if a father has a

(15:08):
business, right, And he has two sons and he has an older son and
a younger son and the older son is immature, basically spits in
the father's face, doesn't listen to the father and the
father, The father basically says, look, I was going to have
you run this business, but now Ihave to kind of put you off to

(15:31):
the side and the younger son's going to take over.
Younger son takes over and he triples the business, quadruples
the business, it goes, goes global.
Does is the older son no longer a son?
Is the older son no longer relevant?
And so I think that when we talkabout dispensationalism, another

(15:53):
aspect of it as well. OK, hold on.
Hold. On you just said a whole lot.
Go ahead, go ahead. You gotta have a bit of a
monologue. Let's do it.
Let's do. This dialogue here.
OK, so you never answer my question.
Does God have two groups of people or one group of people?
What can you explain the question more like?
It Does God have two groups of people that are in salvation and
in communion with him? Or does God have one group of

(16:14):
people that are in salvation andcommunion with him?
He has, he has. So there's is Israel and the
church are two separate things is what so.
So is Israel in communion with God?
I would say if they're not following Christ, no, OK,
they're not they're. Not so if I go off of your
illustration. Two sons, one grows the
business, one walks away from the business, 1 mocks the

(16:38):
business. One says unthinkable things
about his dad. One says that his the people
that follow his dad and still love his dad are idol
worshippers. OK.
I don't know if that son necessarily is going to get the
same inheritance and get the same promises that the younger
son that took over, if I'm just speaking illogically.
Sure. I yeah.

(16:59):
And I, I mean, that totally makes sense and I understand
that. When I look at the Old Testament
though and I see for example Abraham do a lot of messed up
stuff like he goes into Egypt and he lies about his wife and
the Egyptian. But does But does Abraham ever
deny Yahweh? Does Abraham ever deny the God?

(17:21):
Of the Bible? No.
No. Because that, that that is where
the Jews functionally are. They're rejecting the Son.
The Son is the image of the Father.
Jesus is Yahweh. Yeah.
And they're saying Jesus and those who follow Jesus are idol
worshippers. And this is not anecdotal.
This is like their position, youknow, like, like what they
actually believe is that those who follow Jesus are idol

(17:42):
worshippers because Jesus is a man.
Yeah, that's why Paul said there's been a veil that's over
their eyes today. And I mean, you have in the Old
Testament, the Jews going off and they're, you know, they're
worshipping idols, they're worshipping false idols, they're
sacrificing their own kids. There's all this crazy stuff
that they do. But yeah, God still says they're
my chosen people. That doesn't necessarily mean

(18:02):
that they're going to heaven because they have to believe in
Christ, but it does mean that God's going to keep his word and
so that Israel's my chosen people.
The, I believe according to the,the Bible that they're going to,
there's going to be an, a, a, a time where many Jews are going
to come to, to Christ, where that veil is going to be lifted.

(18:24):
This is why I mentioned that thethe video that you made a while
back. You basically said that when you
read Romans 9 through. 11 we could pull it up, yeah.
Romans 9 is kind of the verse where I don't, I don't think
this is talking about the church, right?

(18:46):
This seems to be talking about it's Romans 11, not Romans 9,
right? It's broken off because Romans
9. Let's see, it's not what the all

(19:07):
Israel will be saved. I thought that was Romans 11.
Let me see. Yeah, Romans 11/26.
So Romans 11/26 says I don't want you to be ignorant of this

(19:29):
mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you will not be
conceited. Israel has experienced a
heartening in part until the full member of the Gentiles has
come. And in this way all Israel will
be saved as it is written to Deliverer will come from Zion.
He will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them when I take away their
sins. So this is is this the verse
you're thinking about? Yeah, yeah, that's that's

(19:50):
actually a great verse. Yeah.
So I think there is a unfortunate turning away.
We see Paul wrestling with this,right.
Israel has experienced a hardening in part because it
wasn't just there were some Jewsthat we get saved.
He's writing to a mixed church in Rome, right.
So the Romans weren't a Gentile church and it wasn't a Jewish
church. It was.
And both, right. And then it says and in this way

(20:14):
Israel. All Israel will be saved.
So you can we can get into like what does all mean Israel?
But I think this is saying at some point in time there will
come a time where there will be a revival of sorts amongst
Israel. But here is the tech.
Here's the tricky part in this, because how this verse is
interpreted by a Ted Cruz is Israel.

(20:38):
All Israel is now implicated to mean the government of Israel
and the government of Israel andall Israel, because all Israel
can mean the scattered people ofthe Jewish people all around the
world, right, versus the government of Israel, which you
know, is not always on the up and up.

(20:58):
They tend to be very heavy-handed.
There's questionable things thatthey're doing.
And so the concern that people have, and I would say Christians
and non Christians alike is in this, if we're, if we're in, if
we're back during this view intoour politics.
Now there's a frame that gives Israel a blank check to do
whatever they want, no matter how heavy-handed, no matter how

(21:21):
wild. And then you just have Iran
situation today. They bomb Syria, right?
And then they always have a goodreason for it.
And I've been to Israel and I and I and I love Israel and I
and I can't wait to go back. But I think when you start back
doing this theology and saying all Israel means the government
of Israel today, which is what Ted Cruz did, right?
He's taking a verse from Abrahamand he'll probably take a verse

(21:42):
like this and say, and thereforeall Israel.
And there's a lot of sketchy stuff about Mossad.
There's a lot. I mean, I mean, not to go down
the conspiratorial rap. They're just folks that are
saying that Mossad and the CIA worked on the Epstein list, you
know, and that's why that list is not coming out, is because
they have blackmail information.Trump could have been on those
logs. This this stuff goes deep.

(22:03):
And so when we're like, yeah, all Israel, we can't take the
hope. Hopefully this is not what
you're arguing and you can clarify.
Hopefully what you're not arguing is because the modern
state of Israel was established in 1948 and I'm connecting this
verse to Abraham and I'm connecting this verse that
therefore we give Benjamin Netanyahu and the people of
Israel a blank check to do whatever they want.
Yeah, right. Like, like there's this is being

(22:24):
covered on the news that the reason Trump is saying there's
nothing to see here is because he's potentially blackmailed and
implicated with regards to Mossad.
And that is why they kind of getto do whatever they want,
regardless on how heavy-handed or how sketchy some of the stuff
that they're doing is. Yeah.
So I don't necessarily want to speak to like specific news

(22:44):
stories. What I would say is that us as
dispensationalists, you know, the, the pro, the pro Israel
Christian base, at least that I know of, we, we do not support
Israel just unequivocally, just just, you know, we, we don't
support every single action thatIsrael does.

(23:05):
We don't say that, you know, to support Israel means that you
have to support every single action that the government of
Israel takes. That would be silly.
God in the Old Testament, the promise to Abraham applied.
Those who bless Israel are goingto be blessed.
Those who curse Israel are goingto be cursed.

(23:28):
So, OK, Israel is a nation. There's other nations, there's
Assyria, there's Egypt, there's these other different nations.
There's so many examples in the Scripture of the Ammonites, for
example, laughing when Israel was was when when something bad

(23:48):
happened to Israel and God said,hey, you're going to laugh at my
chosen people, you're going to be punished for that.
And so that doesn't mean that we're supposed to support Israel
when they're doing wrong things or anti biblical things.
It just simply means that we like a little brother, a little
sister, like we should be looking out for them, you know,

(24:10):
because God cares about them. They're his chosen people.
He has a plan for them in the future.
But do you, do you understand the tension that a Tucker
Carlson will have? Do you understand the tensions
that folks will have to say, hey, yes, this says Israel.
However, it may not be the government of Israel established
in 1948. Yeah, I think we have to have

(24:31):
definitions for words, and wordsneed to mean something.
So what does what? What would be your definition of
Israel? The ethnic Jewish people spread
out all across the world. OK, Yeah.
That, that, that that could include people in Israel.
Today, I would agree with that. OK, I would agree with that.
I would also add to that, that there is specific land that has
historically in the Bible been associated to those people, and

(24:55):
that is the land that the government of Israel is
overseeing right now. And it is the the where that
where the Jewish state is today.Yeah.
And so we've seen God exile his people before, yes, for
misbehaving, yes. The government of Israel is a
secular government, the government of Israel.
I mean, Tel Aviv is one of the most LGBTQ places in the world.

(25:16):
Abortion is very legal in Israel, right?
So this they're not the same theocracy under God or even God
godly judges. They have a secular government
with godless ideology just like America and so like it it.
I don't know if that's if that'sone in the same as what I'm
getting at. You're you're not sure if the.

(25:40):
I'm saying, I'm saying Israel the land, the, the, the
biblical, yeah, biblical Israel,Old Testament Israel has been
disciplined before by God repeatedly.
I mean, Jeremiah and Ezekiel is all about the children of Israel
being in exile in Babylon, right?
So we've seen the children of Israel will be exiled.
We've seen the children of Israel be disciplined within
their land. We've seen kings come and go.

(26:02):
We've seen them desire a king like, like, like the other
nations and then they get King Saul and then it turns bad for
them. We've seen the children of
Israel go through multiple eras of discipline and, and, and I
guess a way of God dealing with them that wasn't always just
good, good times based on their behavior.

(26:23):
And so having said that, if today the government of Israel,
I'm not even talking about Gaza,I'm talking about the fact that
they're, they are a secular nation, the fact that they are a
pro, a very pro-choice nation, the fact that they are pro
LGBTQ. They're not under the same
theocracy or the same system of judges or kings that the Old

(26:46):
Testament nation of Israel was and and how they were
functioning. It sounds like you're saying,
will the promises of God cover all of that?
Well, there's still a nation andwe're not God, so we can't.
Whatever God's going to choose to do with the nation of Israel
today is his business. The business that he's given us

(27:07):
is to is to bless them. What does that look like?
I believe it. Acknowledging their right to
exist. Absolutely.
I'm totally with you there. Yeah.
Yeah, totally with you. They have a right to exist.
Acknowledging the right to exist.
And he's giving them weapons to look.
Man, the IDF is extremely sloppy.

(27:28):
I've had IDF soldiers sit in this room and talk to them about
them going in to rescue their own hostages and killing their
own hostages. They were waving a white flag.
So we're giving them weapons, right?
That that they're they're payingback the government at some
point in sense and whatever right.
But we're giving we're funding them to go in and handle certain
aspects that just aren't always not that they don't go above and

(27:49):
beyond to to tell people they'regoing to bomb civilian areas and
all that sort of I think they dosome of that.
I think they go, but there's also times where they're,
they're just sloppy with how they handle stuff, right.
Are you familiar with the story where they went in to rescue
hostages in Gaza? Their own hostages, like the the
hostages that were taken by Hamas hostages come out waving
white flags. This is all documented.
I'm not making this up. And then they shot and killed
their own hostages. So they're shooting and killing

(28:10):
their own hostages because they're spooked, because they're
under trained, because they're not well resourced.
What do you think they're doing to the Palestinians Out of sins
of omission, out of falling short, out of not being properly
trained, out of out of being in the fog of war?
And so by blessing Israel, we'rekind of enabling some of that.
Yeah. So I think it's, I think it's

(28:31):
totally great for us to talk about like specifically what
does blessing Israel look like? I think that's a conversation
that probably should be had moreas like, OK, we acknowledge that
Israel at least #1 we're acknowledging that Israel is
God's chosen people and #2 we'reacknowledging that we're
commanded by God to bless Israel.

(28:53):
I would add to that number 3, and I know a lot of people are
probably going to be upset aboutthis, that the nation of Israel
today is a nation that contains Israelites, ethnic Jewish people
and it's has a government. I mean, it, it fits all the
descriptions of what a nation istotally.
So for us to say that, oh, because we don't agree with some

(29:15):
of the tactics of that Nation Today and you know that they've
done evil things, to say that they're not a nation though that
or they're not that they're not,they shouldn't be considered
Israel, I believe is a false, you know that that's false.
So at least, you know, we're having this conversation, you
know about it. I guess what I'm saying is I'm
taking a more of a, of a broaderview of what it, of this word

(29:39):
Israel and what it means in Romans 11.
Like, like a broader Israel, notjust the nation of Israel.
But you would agree that that's included?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think Israel as an
ethnic people are, are are experiencing A hardening and at
some point there will be some sort of revival with the Jewish
people. I don't know how that looks, but

(30:00):
I think that that is what will come of whatever prophecies that
are going to be fulfilled according to Romans, right.
I don't know how that looks. I think that the skepticism of a
Tucker Carlson is, hey, this says Israel.
It doesn't necessarily mean thatthe government of Israel today,
right? Because Israel is is a diaspora

(30:21):
of people, much like Armenians. They're spread out across the
world. And there's a hesitancy to say,
wait a minute, we don't know if we just want to indiscriminately
support everything they do. I'm not saying that's your
position. I'm saying sometimes that's how
the position can come. And when you get into AIPAC and
all these groups that are supporting Israel, they get a
lot of lobbying power in the United States.

(30:43):
And I think people are rightfully concerned by that,
right. And it's not like it's not like
a right wing thing or a left wing thing.
That's not a political thing. It's just I think people are
like, hey, it seems like the government of Israel has a lot
of influence here in America andthat's alarming.
Would could you concede that? So what?
So, yeah, So what? What would you say is your
version of blessing Israel then?Praying for Israel, Defending

(31:06):
Israel's right to exist. You know, when people are coming
with like crazy a historical narratives like that, you know,
those people aren't even from the land that's been Palestinian
land. Correcting the record on that.
I think those sorts of things. That's you.
Do agree with the idea of blessing Israel?
You do agree with the idea of them being a chosen people, Yes.
OK. Again, to clarify, my concern is

(31:29):
not whether or not Israel is a I'm talking about the nation
state of Israel today has issuesthat I think people are
concerned about. That's what I'm that's what I'm
speaking to. And and I think
dispensationalism sometimes frommy experience, what kind of
like, yeah, I think like I thinkman, I think the Jews are
secretly saved. Like that's kind of the vibe

(31:51):
that I've gotten from some dispensational.
I mean, it's, I haven't read anybooks on where anyone argues for
that. I haven't talked to anyone.
You know that I know who would call themselves that and then
also say that Jews are saved without Christ.
It, it just goes back to a literal interpretation of
Scripture, which is why I said, you know, I think you're, you're
approaching this still from a dispensational framework.

(32:14):
So then what we where would we disagree?
So, so and you said you agree, but you agree with me and I'm
approaching from a dispensational framework,
however. Oh, I disagreed with the way
that you framed dispensationalism.
The the specifically the idea that they are somehow under a
like. They get a like a free, they get

(32:35):
a free pass, you know, like heaven's going to come to them
without Christ, that kind of idea, OK.
That's fair. So, so if that's not the
official teachings, do you see some people that perhaps wave
the banner of dispensationalism that may inadvertently put some
of that out there, even though that may not be the official
teachings according to the textbooks?

(32:56):
So I think, yeah, there's some people I who can take, they can
take prophecy and they can try to make prophecy happen
themselves. And I think we need to be
careful when we do that so. So like the folks trying to
build the third temple? So I was just going to get into
that. Yeah.
So you know what's crazy about the Third Temple?
Thing people sending over heifers.
Red heifers, I was just going togo into that.

(33:17):
Yeah. So there's people in America
that are actually trying to breed red heifers.
I know them. I know some of the.
People. Oh, do you really?
Yeah. So.
Faith what is it? What is a podcast called Zach
Faith in faith in friction podcast where a part of finding
the red heifers. He's a friends of mine, part of
finding the red heifers in Texas, and we're a part of the
process to get them to Israel sothat Israel, the folks in Israel

(33:40):
we're trying to build a temple, can make their red heifer
sacrifice. That's wild.
That's wild. Yeah, because.
This isn't like fringe, this is like pretty.
These are prominent people. So God never commanded us to do
that. OK, right.
God never commanded us to start breeding red heifers.
He never commanded us to build the third temple.

(34:00):
We know from Scripture that the 1/3 temple is going to be built.
God never told us to make it happen.
Where? Where?
In Scripture, is the third temple being built.
So there's different passages inRevelation where it's it
basically talks about the templebeing there.

(34:22):
You mean when Jesus comes back there will be a temple?
There will be a temple. Got it.
And because the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, we're
saying, hey, at some point they'll be a temple rebuilt.
Yeah, yeah, Like the there there's different passages like
the Antichrist is going to sit on the throne or, or sorry, the
Antichrist is going to build a astatue or, or an image that's

(34:48):
going to be in this temple is going to be the abomination of
desolation. You know, Jesus, Jesus spoke
about the abomination of desolation that was spoken about
by the by the prophet Daniel andthat that all.
Takes Matthew 24. Yeah, yeah, that all takes place
in the temple. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't
know of a chapter in Revelation though, that kind of states that

(35:09):
there will be a a temple, let alone the third temple.
So when you look at the two witnesses, for example, I
believe it, I could be wrong, itmight be talking about yeah.
What chapter? So Revelation Chapter 11, OK.
I'll put I'll pull it up on the screen too, so our viewers can
see. OK, Yep, go ahead.

(35:30):
Then I was given a read like a measuring rod and the Angel
stood saying rise and measure the temple of God, the altar and
those who worship there. But leave out the court which is
outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been
given to the Gentiles and they will tread the holy city under
foot 42 months. I mean, there's a lot right
there. So, so the so according to the

(35:52):
dispensational framework, this is talking about a temple in
Jerusalem that will be that thatby the time of this will be
rebuilt. Yeah, right.
And that is why there are some folks who leaned or are part of
this positional camp that want to go and build set temple,
right. OK, give me the steel man of the

(36:14):
opposite view of this. Give me the covenant theology
steel man of this. Oh, what is what would covenant,
Yeah. What would a covenant theology
person say about this passage? They they probably think it's
and again. No, no, yeah, it's.
True, they would think it's likesymbolic.
I mean a lot of they they believe a lot of like
revelation. I mean this, this is just my

(36:35):
understanding of covenant theology is is that a lot of it
is symbolic. It's it.
I wouldn't be able to tell you like specifically what they
think this passage specifically means, but they, they tend to
take a, a, like an allegorical view of it.
And, and The thing is, it's likethere could be symbolism it, you

(37:00):
know, throughout, but it still means the same thing.
It's like, it's like, it's like if a pastor painted, it's like
if a pastor decided to paint thedoor of his church red because,
because he said, I want to make sure that the, the, the door is
red because the Reds going to represent Christ's blood.

(37:21):
And, and you know, Christ is thedoor.
And so when people walk in, you know, I want them to get this,
this symbolic meaning, OK, that's great.
But there's still a door and literal door that's painted red.
Yeah, I think, I think it's possible.
I think when I'm looking up in in Revelation, I went to that
word temple in our trusty logo software, which they're friends

(37:43):
of the channel and giving everybody free 60 day trial of
this. But when I click the word
temple, naos, naos. I don't know if I would plant my
flag that this is definitely thethird temple on the Temple Mount
in Jerusalem that's getting rebuilt.
The the Jerusalem is only referenced once in Revelation
and that's at the end of Revelation, Revelation 22.
So I don't, I don't know if I would necessarily agree that

(38:05):
this is the temple or like you can build an entire theology on
the third temple being rebuilt because it says the word temple.
This could be, I mean, again, according to the Greek, this
could just be a regular temple, a place to worship, a shrine.
Even they were temple even is translated as a shrine in Acts
19. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a
good point. I I think what you have to do is
you have to take Revelation. You have to take Matthew chapter

(38:27):
24. Matthew 23 as well you.
Have to take Daniel Chapter 9. You have to take take these
different passages and they're all connected to each other.
For example, Jesus specifically talks about Daniel in Matthew
chapter 24. So that word just just so, so
we're clear that word temple is only used in Matthew 23 and 26.

(38:49):
So I don't know if Jesus is or isn't.
I mean, obviously he's looting back to the callback in Daniel,
which is also kind of a foreshadowing of Revelation my.
Point is that the context is Israel.
That's my point is, is, is when you look at the at Daniel
Chapter 9, the context is Israel.
So when Jesus is throwing back to Daniel, I believe he's

(39:10):
throwing back to well, he, I mean, he's throwing back to
Daniel and he's throwing back tothe context that was in Daniel
about, about and it and it had to do with Israel.
So, so yeah. So I, I'm not sure what a
covenant theology person would say about those passages.
I would say for the dispensationalist who is trying

(39:32):
to build the Third temple, trying to breed red heifers,
you're, you're, you're doing a disservice.
Because if we believe God is sovereign, then we don't have to
make it happen. We don't have to make these
prophecies happen. We just know, hey, there's going
to be a Third temple rebuilt. There's going to be a Jerusalem,

(39:55):
there's an there's going to be in Israel.
We know this is going to happen.That's why in 1948, May 14th,
there was a lot of Bible scholars.
I don't want to say a lot, but Iknow there was some Bible
scholars previous to that who read the Scriptures.
They understood it literally, and they came to the conclusion
that. Israel's going to come to.

(40:17):
Israel's going to become a nation somehow.
We don't know how because it looks impossible, but somehow
Israel's going to become a nation.
And that's why when it happened,it's like, yeah, yeah, you have
to. You have to at least, you know,
scratch your head. What happened after 1948 and the
the numerous wars they won that seemed like the deck was stacked
against them is is pretty miraculous.

(40:38):
Here's the again. Here's the the flip side to all
of that, right, is that you havean idea of accelerationism,
which is kind of what you're describing.
We want to accelerate the end ofdays.
We want to accelerate Jesus coming back.
So we're going to do what we canto help Israel build the temple
and do all these things, even ifthese folks don't worship Jesus
and aren't followers of Jesus, and even if the status quo.

(41:00):
What they should be focusing their energy on is preaching the
gospel to the to the Jewish people.
Amen. That's what they should be
doing. Yeah.
That's that's what Paul did. Yeah.
So here's here's the 1948 flips out of that you're familiar with
Calvary Chapel. Yeah, that's where I'm from.
OK, that's my my background. Great.
Great church. Are you still out of Cover
Chapel? Yeah.

(41:20):
OK, So then I'm sure you're familiar with the rapture
prophecies. Sure.
In the 80s, a lot of that is. No rapture prophecies in the
80s? No, you're gonna have to
explain. Yeah, so so the guy wrote
multiple books, you guys founderChuck Smith.
Chuck Smith, yeah. Wrote multiple books, not not at

(41:41):
least one book where he believedJesus was going to come back
within the 80s and prophesied orpredicted the return of Jesus
based on seemingly the dates of 1948, right.
So Chuck Smith, who's like one of the best Bible teachers based
on this 1948 and the nation of Israel and this this stuff

(42:04):
predicted A falsely predicted the return of Jesus in the 80s.
And this is this is like acknowledged by Calvary Chapel.
Mike Winger did an entire video on this.
So I'm saying like the fruits ofsome of this stuff hasn't been
good man, like the fruits of like Israel, Jesus coming back.
And then you have Chuck Smith again, amazing, amazing Bible.
Can you? Explain what you mean by the
fruits have not been good. A good Bible teacher was

(42:27):
deceived, misguided, falsely predicted, dare I say falsely
prophesied to the point where there are people on record who
sold stuff, who punted their lives because they were ready
for Jesus to come back based on something Chuck Smith said,
based on this dispensational 1948 framework.
Yeah, it's interesting to see how people react to this idea

(42:51):
that Jesus is coming soon. OK, so I believe that at any
moment right now we could poof be gone.
But the rat was not built. Yeah, but the the rapture
doesn't need to happen. Oh, OK.
So yeah, learning to a. Before the temples built it's.
Called pre pre tribulation. Rapture so that, that's what I
believe personally. And I mean, I, I, I think like

(43:12):
we have to, we have to be humbleabout these things.
You know, these, these are thesepassages in the Bible can be
difficult to understand. Anybody who says different like,
no, I'm dogmatic. I know exactly, 100% I'd stake
my entire life on it. You know, that's a bluff.
I think I would say when I look at the evidence, it points me

(43:33):
there. I don't know what book or
whatever you're talking about with Pastor Chuck Smith.
I've listened to a lot of sermons from Chuck Smith.
He my understanding of what he believes is that the rapture
could happen at any moment. And Jesus said, when you see
these signs begin to happen, to look up for our redemption draws

(43:57):
near. So I what, what I've, what I've
heard from Chuck Smith is, hey, Israel's back in the land.
This has been, you know, 2000 years since they were dispersed.
Now I'm not speaking for Chuck Smith.
I'm speaking for myself. It's been 2000 years since since

(44:20):
Israel was back in the land. Now they're back in the land,
guys. It seems like like the rapture
could happen any moment. Like not not because the rapture
has to happen after Jesus is back in the land, but because
like what Jesus said, when you start seeing the seasons, when
you start seeing these signs start to come to pass, like look

(44:40):
up like there something's about to happen.
So I would say what's interesting about this is some
people will take that and they'll say, oh, that's doom and
gloom. That's, you know, you, you just
you're looking to the end of theworld.
That's the wrong reaction to have.
That's not the reaction that we're supposed to have from from

(45:02):
God's word that should cause us to say, hey, the end is coming.
We just like what Paul did. Paul said the time is short.
Therefore I, I need to get out there.
I need to be preaching the gospel to every creature.
I need to let them know what's coming.
I need to be like a watchman on the wall telling them that's

(45:22):
throughout all of Scripture, theprophets, you know, Ezekiel, God
told Ezekiel to be a watchman onthe wall.
Let people know what's coming. So us, who are, you know, we
have the prophecies. We're not, you know, Old
Testament prophets, but we do have the prophecies.
We need to have that same mindset.
And it's not doom and gloom, it's celebration.
It's like, hey, our redemption'sdrawing near.

(45:44):
Let's go preach the gospel. Let's have more joy in light of
all the evil that we're seeing around us, in light of all these
bad things that are happening. We can rejoice because we know
that we have our salvation and we need to try to get that to as
many people, yeah, as we can. Totally with you.
I'm with you. I'm just saying when we talk
about the fruits of this like sothis is this is verified, this

(46:08):
is Chuck Smith, the founder of Calvary Chapel predicted the
rapture would occur before the end of 1981.
He publicly stated his conviction that the Lord would
come for his church before the end of the of that year.
To make the to mark this occasion, Calvary Chapel held a
New Year's Eve service in 1981. This prediction this prediction
was based on the interpretation of biblical prophecy and his
belief in pre tribulation rapture theology.

(46:28):
While he acknowledged the possibility of being wrong, he
maintained a strong conviction about the timing.
When the world did not end as predicted, some followers left
Calvary Chapel. And then this is a Mike Winger
article who's also a Calvary guy.
Why did Chuck Smith predict the rapture, the Mark series?
And he goes over this. So I'm saying that when I say
the fruits of this, that I'm pointing to that.

(46:50):
And I love Chuck Smith and I love Calvary Chapel.
If if anyone in my chat say, hey, I'm trying to find a
church, I'll usually point them to a Calvary Chapel, right?
So this is what I mean though bylike this.
This idea and this framework caneven lead to one of the best
verse by verse Bible teachers tomake an error of this
proportion. Sure.
I mean, you, you can, people take information and they do

(47:10):
what they want with it. And we, you know, obviously we
don't believe Chuck Smith is Jesus.
I, you know, I, I have, I have alot of respect for him.
I think he was reaching out to ageneration that was lost and he
brought Christ to them. And you know, he preached the
gospel to the very end, till hislast days of death.

(47:32):
I'm not going to sit here and argue that he didn't make any
mistakes. This is all new information to
me. I've never heard of this before.
My, my, my, bad. I I thought this was pretty
known amongst Calvary circles. I didn't know you were Calvary
guy. Yeah, I would sit with this
because this is this is pretty. I mean, it's interesting.
I, I, it doesn't, it doesn't shake my conviction at all in

(47:54):
the theology because I'm, I'm, I'm not getting my theology from
the actions of Chuck Smith. Fair enough.
Getting my theology from the Bible.
And I believe Chuck Smith tried to teach according to the Bible
as best he could. But but I think, yeah, you can
do whatever you want with the information.
At the end of the day, God has given us the commands of how he

(48:16):
wants us to live. You read, you know, Ephesians,
you read like God is God is showing us through Paul, through
his letters, how we're supposed to be living right now during
these times. You know, in light of the fact
that the time is short. I'm I'm totally with you there.
I think my, my position tends tobe 1 of hey, when I sit down and

(48:40):
I hear the best of the best and I hear someone that hosts to a
post millennial eschatology, there'll be radical revival and
then the church will be spread all throughout the world and
people will come to faith and, and, and the world will get
better than Jesus will come back.
That's a post millennial view, amillennial view.
Jesus is on the throne now, but just in, in, in heaven, right

(49:02):
in, in the spiritual room, whichis I, I want to say with a lot
of folks who hold to a covenant theology, kind of hold to like
amillennial view. And then I sit down and I hear
the best of the best from the premillennial view, right, Which
is what you hold to. I go, man, they all that sounds
good. They all sound good, so perhaps
we should be very humble with how we're talking about end

(49:23):
times anything. Right, I think.
We should be humble. Yeah, because, because I can
again, I don't know how much you've sat and really heard the
debates on this, right? Like really heard the best of
the best arguments of the post millennial, the all millennial,
the pre millennial view. And there's there's a lot of
people that can make a lot of really good arguments and
sophisticated arguments. And so I just go, I don't I
don't know, like, I don't know. I think I'm I'm a pan

(49:43):
millennial. I think it'll all pan out in the
end, right. Like I think at some point Jesus
is going to come back. I believe in the physical,
literal, bodily Jesus coming back.
He will be on the throne. I don't know when it's going to
happen, but I do think that thisposition, though, I think it
could be true because I hear andI'm and, and everything you're
saying is very compelling. I go man, I'm, I'm, I'm nervous

(50:05):
because I've seen the fruit of it, specifically with Chuck
Smith. I'm nervous because I think
sometimes, not all of it, but sometimes the Israel stuff can
get really weird, as we've already agreed upon with the
heifers and. And typically those from other
camps will try to point to the weird ones, sure and and say
that's dispensationalism. Yes, we don't want to be judged

(50:25):
by the. Tribulationism, you know, so I
don't think we need to throw stones at each other when we're
talking about these things. Well.
Let me like make my last point. Yeah, which is this does also
seem fairly modern, specificallythe Rapture view of the end
times. I I don't see a ton of it in his
in church history prior to the last 100 years, kind of with the

(50:46):
rise of dispensationalism in this, what was the Bible that
was. Allegedly.
The Scofield Bible that was allegedly kind of, you know,
funded by folks who held a pro Zionist view in this whole
thing. And again, I'm a Zionist by
textbook definition. Like, I think Israel has a right
to exist. I think Israel has a right to
defend itself. But dispensationalism also does

(51:07):
seem a bit modern and that always we Spooks me out.
Whenever someone's super modern I always go.
Why do you say it's it's modern?It seems to be modern.
I didn't say it is modern. I'm like making a definitive
argument because I'm not a church history scholar.
But from when I look at church history and I look at
eschatology and I look at what has been held throughout the
the, the, the, the deck, the thousands of years, the
millennials, it doesn't seem like this dispensational

(51:31):
Zionistic view is something thatis super.
Would you say that covenant theology is pretty modern too?
Well, I mean, if we're, if I'm going to be extremely charitable
to my Catholic and Orthodox brothers and sisters, that is
the position they tend to view. They view, they view the church
and the priest as a replacement for Israel.
They have altars. They see the continuation of the

(51:54):
priesthood like that. It's it's literally a one for
one for them. So my point is when it comes to
the, the, the semantics of it, dispensationalism, covenant
theology, a lot of these terms, they do come out much later.
So, you know, Christian Zionism,that's a newer term because now,

(52:16):
you know, Israel's in the land. So there there's this term, but
before that there was something called rest, rest
restorationism. And that's because Israel wasn't
in the land yet. But but people in the 1600s,
they were reading the scripturesand they were saying, you know,
it seems like Israel's going to come back in the land.
Seems like Israel's that God's going to restore Israel.

(52:37):
So restorationism, this idea of God working in eras or phases or
dispensations. I mean, Ephesians 19 uses the
word dispensations in the fullness of the dispensation,
something like that. You could pull it up.
This idea of seasons or you know, in the fullness of the
time these type, this type of language was studied by

(53:01):
scholars, wasn't always labeled dispensational
dispensationalism, but that doesn't make the doctrine any
less true just because it didn'thave a labeled on it.
Would you concede that the Rapture Left Behind theology is
relatively modern? So when it comes to like a pre

(53:22):
premillennial view of Scripture,the the early church, even it
was, it was referred to something.
And again, this is like a littlebit out of my purview, like when
it comes to church history and stuff.
But if you look up, I believe it's called chiliasm or
something like that. It's like this, this word like
chiliasm that was basically encompassed premillennialism.

(53:45):
It was like this idea of Jesus coming before the thousand year
reign of Christ. I'd have to do more research on
like the history of when a pre tribulational idea of the
rapture came about. I just look at the scriptures.
I try to, I try to take them as literally as I can.

(54:07):
And from the research that I've done, it seems to me that that
fits the best that, that that's the best fit.
I'm I made a, a, a video about it a while ago and I basically
presented all three views pre tribulation, mid tribulation,
post tribulation. I gave the different arguments

(54:27):
and then at the end I said this is where I fall, this is where I
land and here's why so. So what do you make of the
partial preterist view that a lot of Matthew 24 is actually
talking about the temple being destroyed in 70AD?
Can you can you elaborate more on that?
Yeah. So partial preterism, not full
preterism, because I think full preterism is heresy.

(54:48):
Partial preterism is that much of what we're seeing in parts of
Revelation 666 That looks like Nero, right?
The persecution of the church early on, what Jesus is talking
about in Matthew 24 sure does sound like the temple being
destroyed in 70. The partial preterism view, and
I'm again, I hold this stuff very loosely.

(55:08):
OK so this is not, I don't, I don't have a camp, but the
partial preterism view views that a lot of this stuff has
already happened and was being specifically predicted about the
destruction of the temple in 70AD.
Yeah. So I think you can try to fit
like a square pig in a round hole, but at the end of the day
you have to look at the, you have to look at all of the

(55:30):
details that are encompassed so.To you, it's not possible in the
slightest that Jesus could have been talking about the You don't
think he ever predicted the destruction of the temple in
7080? He did, actually.
Yeah, but not in Matthew 24. I, I think it, I think he did.
Actually, at the start of Matthew 24, he did.

(55:51):
So he so so so he did. And part of Matthew 24, but all
of Matthew 24 is not talking about the the the destruction of
the temple. I believe he did in the
beginning of Matthew 24, but youmentioned like the 666 and.
Nero, that stuff. Yeah, I mean you, you have to
take all of it so you know. So it's possible Revelation was

(56:13):
about two different things. It's possible that it was about
Nero and about what was happening under Roman occupation
and the persecution the church was going through and that sort
of stuff, and also about the endof days.
No, I think the Bible can reallyhave one meaning.
Like when a scripture is talkingabout something, it has one
specific meaning. You don't think like David is

(56:34):
prophesying about Jesus and he'sprophesying about Jesus, but
he's also talking about his own issues and the things as he's
going through. You don't think that could be
dual meanings in certain passages?
I think, yeah, the way that thatmeaning is applied can like you
can take, you can take an application from the meaning of
the scripture, but it doesn't change that that meaning still

(56:54):
had, there's still a core meaning of what that passage is.
So so, and I don't want to park here too long, but like
specifically David prophesying Jesus in Psalms.
You think David knew he was prophesying about Jesus in
Psalms? You think that was his meaning?
Oh, I don't know if he knew OK or not, but I but, but if we
believe that the Bible is is in like the Holy Spirit has

(57:16):
inspired the Bible, then, you know, it's possible that he
knew. It's possible that he didn't
know. You don't think it's possible
that he was writing about stuff he was going through and also
prophesying at the same time? That's an interesting idea,
yeah. Yeah, I'm, I'm just genuinely
curious because I think again, if I'm looking at all the best

(57:38):
arguments, I go, man, it sounds like Matthew 24 and parts of
Revelation could have been aboutthe destruction of the temple,
but it also sounds like it couldbe about what's going to happen
in the end days and it could be double meanings of stuff.
You know, I, I don't, I don't know, you know, I go, I hold
these things very loosely. So that's why I'm, that's why
I'm asking because I'm, I'm justgenuinely curious, Not that I've
had this conversation. This isn't like a gotcha and I'm

(57:58):
trying to take I'm just generally curious that I think
that there there could be dual meanings to to certain passages
that are both prophetic and alsoliteral, right.
So like here, let me give you anexample.
Jeremiah 29, right? The I know the Things I have for
you plans to bless you and write.
You know the famous passage. Yeah.
Right before that, Jeremiah is writing to children of Israel

(58:21):
and he is saying, hey, in the last days, these things will
happen. Plant gardens, start families,
pray for the peace and prosperity of the land.
Right now he's writing to the children of Israel that are
specifically under exile in Babylon.
But I think that that that maybeand maybe this is the
application and not the meaning.I think the application of that
can be taken for us today livingas exiles in Babylon totally who

(58:43):
are who should plant gardens, who who should start families
who should think multi generationally who who should
pray for the peace and prosperity of the land which God
has taken us in. Because if it's blessed, we're
blessed. I think, I think it's, I think
it's am both and maybe maybe that's an application and not a
meaning thing, you know, becauseI think when I see Daniel,
Ezekiel, Jeremiah, it seems likeit's and both it seems like

(59:07):
they're writing about stuff that's happening there, but it's
also prophetic at times. No, yeah, you definitely bring
up a good point. Yeah, it it does seem like there
is this this thing happening like Daniel Chapter 9, right?
He talks about this abomination of desolation.
Desolation. Yeah.
What Jesus is talking about in Matthew 24 as well, Yeah.
But but yet in between Daniel and Jesus, there's something

(59:31):
that happens that's kind of similar.
So the, the during the Greek era, when the Greeks took over
Antiochus Epiphanes, Assyrian was given charge over that
region. And he did an obscene thing in
the temple where he set up this,this, you know, I don't know if
he set up a statue of himself. I know he like, he like

(59:52):
sacrificed a pig. It was like he did like this,
this stuff to basically like, like it was an abomination that
then brought desolation because the people had to flee.
They had to like get out of there.
Like he was, he was going on a rampage, you know, killing Jews,
so. In a sense, there was like
almost like a partial fulfillment of that passage.

(01:00:14):
But then yet Jesus comes along and says when you see the
abomination of desolation happening in the temple, which
is another good passage to promote the third temple being
built is like abomination of desolation hasn't happened yet.
When you see that happen, then flee to the mountains.
So in other words, the abomination of desolation spoken

(01:00:36):
of by the prophet Daniel almost pictured in the in what
happened, you know, there was there was, there was like a, a,
something similar that happened in the temple.
It almost gives you more clarityon what it's going to be like in
the future. So yeah, you know, you bring up
a really good point about these like these almost like 2

(01:00:58):
fulfillments. And I also remember there being
some sort of additional abomination when 70 AD was being
destroyed. I don't, I don't, I don't, my
memory doesn't serve me correctly.
But yeah, something was going onthere that again, the the
preterist view would be Jesus istalking about the destruction of
the temple right in Matthew 24. But again, I don't know, man, I,
I read these things and I go, man, they sound spooky.

(01:01:19):
It sounds scary. I don't know when this stuff is
going to happen. No man, no man knows the day or
the hour. But it sure does seem like he
was talking about folks in this generation.
I don't know if it's in Matthew 24, but he does talk about like
this generation a lot, right. And so, yeah.
So anyway, I see all that to say, like I think there's
there's a plethora of views people can hold and I'm cool
with all of them. I personally love the idea of

(01:01:41):
post millennialism because it equips the church to usher in
goodness and beauty and to occupy until Jesus comes, right?
And I, and I love that because Ijust think it's just more, I
don't know, like how, you know, John MacArthur just recently
passed and you see one of the spats that him and James White
got into was about John MacArthur saying we lose down

(01:02:05):
here, we lose down here, right. And James White was like, man,
that is just that just does not.And James White holds to a post
millennial view of they both Calvinist and which which I'm
not, but James White hosted thatAnd he's just like, I don't
think that that's a good way to segue to to like speak to young
men, right. So like coming full circle to

(01:02:26):
the stuff I'm passionate about you.
Communicate. It we lose down here and it's
like John, John MacArthur, like respectfully, like you, you, you
have a $15 million net worth, like you own multiple
properties, like you're, you're crushing it by every worldly
metric ever. And you're looking and you're
looking at men and telling them we lose down here.
And to me, I don't, I don't, I think what we preach in
moderation are our followings will do in access.

(01:02:49):
So if he's saying we lose down here, but like what I really
mean is occupy and and and be faithful and all, I mean that
too. But like just at the end of the
day, this view is going to mean that we lose down here, right?
It's like I I I again for my biased, I don't know how life
giving and encouraging that is to to young men.
Yeah, I mean, I've only heard the opposite.

(01:03:09):
So from for me, like, like when I think of the rapture happening
at any moment, it's like I said before, Occupy till he comes,
you know, he could come at any moment.
That means we should be like getting our butts off our seats
and like doing something. Good.
So from your from your experience, experience is the
opposite. It's like because we're living
with the imminency of Christ, that because we're living with

(01:03:30):
the imminency of Christ that youshould be more passionate about
being faithful to what's in front of.
You 100% OK, 100% yeah. Yeah.
And what I would say to the postmillennialist is what do you do
with Israel? Because when you have the the
like, a lot of the promises in the Old Testament have not been
fulfilled yet. So the question is, what do you

(01:03:51):
do with those promises? Do you allegorize them and try
to explain them away? Or do you wrestle with them and
say hey, these this has to happen somehow?
Specifically, about all Israel will be saved.
Well, well, promises about, yes,the seven-year tribulation
promises, you know, about the them coming into the land, all

(01:04:12):
of these different things, right?
So, so, you know, you have to wrestle with it.
You know, Revelation, like thesebad things are going to happen
in Revelation. So like, where does that happen?
What is your system of, you know, what's your framework of
like how these things are going to happen if you think
everything is just going to continue to get better?
Yeah. So, so again, the post

(01:04:33):
millennial view, the preterist view would be that a lot of
revelation has already happened with the caveat of the last
chapter or so. And so they view like all this
is this is this is stuff that John is writing as if it's, it's
going to happen in the future. Jesus is writing Matthew 2524 as
if it's going to happen in the future.
But we're reading it. And this is stuff that already
happened at 70 AD when the when the temple was destroyed.

(01:04:54):
That's that would be the answer to that.
OK, so yeah, I mean, I, I, I just haven't heard a good
explanation of how you explain alot of these things.
If you take it literally, if youtake, you know, the stuff in
Revelation literally, it's like,you know, where's the
Antichrist? Where's the 2 witnesses?

(01:05:17):
You know, there's a lot of things that happen that have to
take place. You know it in and I I don't I
haven't heard like a good explanation from a post
millennialist on how they are they're able to accurately fit
that into the history. Got you.
Yeah, I'm not saying there's always that that I always agree,
but I'm saying there definitely are good explanations for it.

(01:05:38):
And and just so I'm clear, so because they they will come
after me and what I revelation, I want to say was written later.
And so this specifically talkingabout Nero and and that sort of
stuff, that would be the post millennial view on Revelations
that it it happened later. So that it is literal.
It's just not all of it is literal.
Like those are literal events that happened.
We're reading them as if, like we're reading them the way John

(01:06:01):
is writing them, but John is writing them as if they are
future tense to us, though we'rereading them and they partially
happened. That would be the the post
millennial preterist view. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'll get you some resources on stuff.
Again, I'm not even, I'm not even saying that's my team.
I'm just saying, man, it's interesting, you know?
So it sounds like it sounds likewhere our biggest disagreement
was, was perhaps my definition of dispensationalism was

(01:06:24):
inaccurate according to your your gold standard definition of
dispensationalism. Regardless on Chuck Smith
predicting Jesus coming back in the rapture.
Regardless of any of that stuff,you felt like I ultimately, in a
way, articulated a dispensational point of view,
yet didn't accurately represent dispensationalism.

(01:06:47):
Yeah, it's, yeah. It's felt like you were.
Like if you didn't say that you were not a just
dispensationalist, I would have thought that you were based on
the way that you explained romance maybe.
I am I. Think you are Ruslan.
I think you come over, you've come over to the team.
Maybe I am so how do you think this would play out like I'm I'm

(01:07:09):
curious so when Paul says go go going full circle Romans 1125.
I do not want you to be ignorantof the mystery brothers and
sisters so that you may not become conceited.
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the
number of the Gentiles and in this way all Israel will be
saved as far as the gospel is concerned.
They are enemies for your sake, but as far as election is
concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs of

(01:07:29):
verse 29. For God's gift and his call are
irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time
disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of
their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in
order that they too, that they too may now receive mercy as a
result of God's mercy to you. So it's almost it sounds like

(01:07:51):
he's saying like the Gentiles becoming a part of God's family
will make Israel jealous in a way and they will come back to
to the Messiah, which is what a lot of like my friends who are
Oh gosh, what is the word Messianic?
Messianic Jews kind of whole tooforgot us about everyone over to

(01:08:11):
disobedience so that he may havemercy on them all.
So how do you think this plays out?
Like from your management, what happens to Israel?
Like if you're just to be like completely honest, you're not
saying this is we're not saying this is what's going to happen.
You're saying from your opinion,What do you, how do you think
this is going to play out? Yeah.
So when you look at Israel, they're back in the land.
That's pretty crazy. And then you look at all these

(01:08:32):
prophecies that are supposed to come.
So for example, Ezekiel chapter 38 is really interesting.
Ezekiel 38 basically describes anumber of nations, Magog,
Persia, they're all of these ancient names, Ethiopia, these

(01:08:52):
different ancient names that when you go back, can you look
at the history of where these names came from?
And there's, there's a healthy debate on them, But, but I would
argue that Magog is talking about Russia.
It's the most northern part. Without getting too deep into

(01:09:13):
it, there's these, there's this,there's these different nations,
Russia, Iran, Turkey, I would argue Sudan and Libya.
That's those would be the five nations that I would say Ezekiel
38 is discussing. It says in that chapter that
these nations are going to join together.

(01:09:35):
They're going to attack the Jewish state, but God is going
to defend Israel. He's going to defend his people,
and it's going to be a miracle that's going to happen.
Here's what's really interestingabout this, though, is after he
defends his nation, it says thatonly after do the people start

(01:09:56):
to worship God, do the people start to come to the knowledge
of God again. So I think that we're going to
see a war take place in Israel where Russia, Turkey, Iran, all
these nations who at the time when it was written, Ezekiel was
writing Israel was literally captives in Babylon.

(01:10:18):
The, the, these ancient nations were not even friends at the
time. And now we're looking at these
ancient nations that are now modern nations and we're seeing,
oh, wow, they're, they're a lot of them have a joint hatred for
Israel today. I believe if they could have, I

(01:10:38):
mean, we've already seen Iran attack, but something is going
to happen. I don't know how.
I'm not a prophet, but something's going to happen to
where these nations are going tojoin together and they're going
to attack the Jewish state. This is what I believe.
And and then a lot of Jews are going to start to wake up.
They're going to say, wow, that was miraculous.

(01:10:58):
God just defended us and they'regoing to start to come to faith
in in Jesus Christ and masses. And I believe that it's possible
that that could happen before the rapture.
It's possible it could happen after the rapture, but some
point after that and and if you read the passage, it's

(01:11:20):
interesting because. It's I got it pulled up here if
you want to reference it. This is verse 9.
This is what will happen in thatday when Gog attacks the land of
Israel. My hot anger will be aroused,
declares the Sovereign Lord. Yeah, yeah.
So if you Scroll down, let me see.
For my zeal and fairy wrath, I declare that at that time there

(01:11:41):
shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel.
The fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the beast of the
field, every creature that movesalong the ground, and all the
people on the face of the earth will tremble at my presence.
The mountains will be overturned, cliffs will crumble,
and every wall will fall to the ground.
I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains,
declares the Sovereign Lord. Every man's sword will be

(01:12:02):
against his brother. I will execute judgment verse 22
on him with plague and bloodshed.
I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones, and burning
sulfur on him and the troops. And so I will show my greatness
and my holiness, and I will makemyself known in the sight of
many nations. Then they will know that I am
the Lord God. Yeah, so this giant war is going

(01:12:23):
to happen. And, you know, maybe it's
talking about nuclear war. Maybe there's just maybe there's
just going to be like, like, youknow, these these meteor shower
that's going to come down. We don't know how it's going to
happen. And it's it's, you know, talks
about like this fire. And it's, you know, Ezekiel's
trying to describe this thing that he's seen in front of him.
And so so then the the question.So then this is just what I

(01:12:48):
think. And you know, I'm not saying
this is what's going to happen, but I think it if if we're just
talking, I think that this battle's going to take place.
I don't know how soon, but the all the pieces seem to be lining
up because Israel's back in the land.
These nations hate Israel. And it also says Israel's going

(01:13:10):
to be in a time of peace before this battle happens.
So maybe what's happening right now is Israel's defeating its
enemies. It's going to feel like it's
secure, like they're happy. And then these these nations are
going to come together. They're going to attack Israel.
And then and then it's also going to cause like almost like
a World War three, I think, because it says that even on the

(01:13:33):
coastlands, God's going to execute judgement during this
time. So imagine this like World War 3
happens, all of this crazy stuffhappens.
The Jews are now ready to start coming to Christ, and now
everyone's looking for someone to bring.
They're sick of war that that, you know, everybody's tired of

(01:13:54):
war in the Middle East. And I believe that at that
moment, there's going to come a man who's going to appear like
he's has all the solutions, likehe has all the solutions to
peace and prosperity. And everybody's going to put
their trust in this man. And that man's going to be the
Antichrist. He's going to make a peace
treaty with Israel like Daniel Chapter 9, verse 27 talks about,

(01:14:20):
and he's going to enter into this seven-year peace treaty
agreement. Now the rapture has, I've in my
view, the rapture will happen before that takes place.
So maybe this war happens, the rapture happens, it's just total
chaos on the earth. And then this guy appears and
it's like, hey, I have all the solutions and people are going

(01:14:40):
to believe him. They're going to follow him.
Yeah. What do you make of the the
verse in First John? It talks about there being
multiple antichrists, and they're already here.
We distinguished that from the Thessalonians.
Yeah, it's it's. The The Big Antichrist versus.
The title the title Antichrist is the one that stuck.
Yep I think. I think he's only referred to as

(01:15:02):
like the Antichrist. Like definite article Antichrist
like one time. I think it's in First John as
well, but he's often called, youknow, in Revelation, he's
referred to as the beast of the sea.
In Daniel, he's referred to as the little horn.
They're all connected though, because you have the same, the

(01:15:23):
same time frames, 3 1/2 years, seven years, abomination of
desolation. Like there's, there's links that
link these passages together that make that cause us who are
trying to study the scriptures, trying to figure out what's
happening in the end times that cause us to say, oh, hey, the

(01:15:44):
Bible is linking this passage tothis passage and this passage to
this passage. They're all talking about the
same dude, you know, which is the Antichrist we just call.
I mean, the Antichrist is just acool name too, So so.
Like. Like if we just called him like
the coming world ruler, it's like not as cool as the
Antichrist. It's interesting stuff, man.
And and I, I don't know how it'sgoing to pan out.

(01:16:06):
You know, I think I'm glad that we agree on the macro of like,
hey, we're supposed to, we're supposed to be faithful right
now. We're supposed to do our part to
preach the good news and, and live the good news and, and, and
be the hands and feet of Jesus. And ultimately, I don't know how
it all pans out. Maybe you're right.
And sounds like it, you know, based on like a passage like

(01:16:29):
Ezekiel, like, that's pretty, pretty intense stuff.
Yeah, I think, I think the Israel stuff is interesting,
man, as like I've gone to Israel.
I love Israel. Some of this stuff just seems
super questionable, you know, in, in, in the way they move
because at the end and the, the positioning of themselves is
always kind of like this like moral high ground, which for the

(01:16:51):
record, in comparison to Iran and Turkey, I do think that
Israel is better. But Israel, I mean, also has
some, some questionable things in their own, in their own
history and. They're in a tough place and
they're little tiny nations surrounded by enemies that wants
them dead. Yeah, so and I and tough place.
Have you have you been? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I haven't
gone. I think, I think it's difficult
for people who haven't gone to understand like that never again

(01:17:15):
mindset like that, like we can never let this happen again.
Like that drives so much of their psyche good or bad, you
know. And then when you when you take
that and you add in the far right of the like the ultra
Orthodox and the folks who don'tserve in the military and them
forming this far right, a coalition with Netanyahu, it

(01:17:36):
just, it just gets so murky on some of this stuff, you know,
and, and and this is not an indictment of the people of
Israel again, because I when I say Israel, I mean the people of
Israel all over. But some of the issues I have
specifically with with the government, and I'm just like,
man, I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I just take
everything out at face value that comes from Israel.
Like, yeah, Iran was had a nuclear weapon and they were
going to set it off on the wholeworld.

(01:17:57):
So we have to I was like, I don't know.
I don't know if I believe that from you guys.
You know, So that's the part where like, I don't know if
Benjamin Netanyahu is a good faith actor.
Like I don't know if he is because he's not very popular
amongst his own people. You know, like his approval
rating is is not not great, right?
So that's some of the part whereI think people are rightfully so
skeptical about Israel in lightest conversation.

(01:18:20):
And that's why I think like so many people were with Tucker
Carlson and so many people were with Ted Cruz and it kind of
culminated. I think Ted Cruz could have
definitely done a better job of like my, my politically, why I
support Israel is because of Genesis.
Like that's a wild thing to say as a senator.
I think there's way better reasons to articulate like, hey,
there, there are only democratically in the Middle East.

(01:18:43):
We need to have a good relationship with him to
maintain stability. Like I think he could have
answered it that way instead of trying to like go to theology
route and not even know their chapter in Genesis he was
referencing. Yeah.
One, one thing I wanted to say, I don't know are are we coming
to an end? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We're coming to an end soon. Yeah, so I just wanted to say
something because, you know, we covered a lot of different stuff
here, a lot of scary stuff. You know, we're talking about

(01:19:06):
war and stuff and there's peoplewatching who, you know, maybe
they're not as relaxed as us as we're sitting here talking and
they're feeling a little bit afraid or.
Horrified. Horrified.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, like the comments that I get sometimes, you know, on
videos that I've made. And and I just want to say,
like, put your trust in Jesus Christ.

(01:19:28):
Like if you're not a believer today, put your put your trust
in Jesus Christ because the Bible says he's coming back to
earth. He's going to have eyes like
fire, a sword coming out of his mouth.
I mean, the description is terrifying, but it's, it's not
as terrifying when you realize that he's on your team and that
you're following him like, like I'm on his team.

(01:19:49):
You know, when you read about a lot of these creatures too, in
Revelation that have all these eyes and all this stuff, you
know, you can get afraid until you realize, hey, they're
actually on my team. Like I'm kind of glad that the
the Kingdom of God and the righteousness of God is more
powerful, looks more gnarly thanthe powers of evil.

(01:20:09):
And so we should be. We should be keeping our eyes on
Christ during this time. And I just wanted to say that
just for anybody listening rightnow, like don't be afraid.
Don't be afraid. Like you, Jesus Christ came to
this earth because he loves you.He wants to have a relationship
with you and you can have a personal relationship with this

(01:20:31):
all powerful God that's going todo all this crazy stuff.
He, he's going to have your backthrough it.
He just wants you to come to him.
Amen. Appreciate you man.
This is fun. Tell them more about your
channel, cause your channel is slapping.
We'll, we'll, we'll put it in the thanks in the in the tag in
the description. But yeah, tell them.
Tell them about like your channel, what you do and what
what you, what the mission of your channel is.

(01:20:52):
Yeah, so I just want more Christians, more people in
general to understand God's word, feel confident reading it.
I remember the first time I, youknow, I got saved and it was
like, slap this big Bible down on the desk and it's, it's a
scary book, you know, it's a lotof, you know, like, just like us

(01:21:12):
talking right now. So my channel's goal is
basically to help people understand the Bible better.
And as a visual learner, I like to do that through maps and
timelines and different visuals to just simplify it are.
You designing all those or how do you make them?
Those are the I. Have an editor who's amazing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He animates everything and helps

(01:21:35):
to create all the visuals. But I've always like, what I'll
usually do is I'll actually drawit out first and then I'll send
it to him so I have my my chicken scratch.
Drawing of it. Because that's what I've always
done. You know, it's like, I can't
really unwrap my mind around this.
I'm going to draw a timeline of it.
You know, I can't really wrap mymind around it.
Let me look at a map. And seeing those visuals has

(01:21:58):
really helped me to approach God's Word and be able to not
just get lost in all these big words, but be like, OK, yeah, I
remember, you know, that's this location here.
And you know, this happens at this point on the timeline.
And so I just want to try to give that to other people so
they, when they approach God's word, they don't have to feel
like it's this daunting, scary book, but they can read it, they

(01:22:19):
can understand it, they can connect with God.
Amen. You were telling us about a
video that you have that you're working on, you can tell us
about and what you're excited about this because it's in a
private line for your channel. Yeah, So it's the the entire
Exodus of Moses on a map. We've done Paul, we've done
Jesus, we've done Abraham, David.
Everybody keeps putting in the comments, Moses, Moses, Moses.

(01:22:42):
If you turn to the back of your Bible, most Bibles, they will
have a map of where Moses went, but at each location it will
have a little question, questionmark.
And it's because it's probably the most debated map out there.
So what we're going to do in this video is kind of wrestle
with some with two different viewpoints.

(01:23:04):
And I actually interview a guy who spent 25 years of his life
studying and living in these areas and visiting them and
interviewing experts. So he studied the archaeology
and all of this stuff. So we've packed all of that in.
It's going to be about a 25 minute video coming out this
Saturday. Come on, man, we'll get this out
before that that goes live. But dude, Jonathan, thank you so

(01:23:26):
much for coming, man. This is a great conversation.
Hopefully it was edifying to people.
Hopefully we we challenged each other at that.
I think we agree way more than we disagree on, totally.
And yeah, man, we'll have you back soon.
This is fine, thanks. Alright, guys, we're out of
here. Make sure to subscribe to ear to
hear ministries. Amazing channel.
All right, peace. What do Wes Huff, KB from
Southside Rabbi Ninjas of butterflies, Josh Nadeau all

(01:23:50):
have in common? They're all going to be with me
live at Blessed God Summit 2026 here at the Seabird Resort in
Oceanside, CA. While we're right on the water
now, those of you guys that attended the first Blessed Scott
summit, the 400 of you, we heardyou loud and clear.
We're keeping the prices the same at a nicer resort.

(01:24:12):
The lineup is going to be even more incredible.
We're bringing back some of the speakers and we're even renting
out the Oceanside Amphitheater for the most incredible night of
music and outreach. My man Dustin Tavella, who won
America's Got Talent is coming back and an additional lineup of
performers that are all going tobe performing here at the

(01:24:33):
Oceanside Amphitheater the finalnight of the Blessed God Summit.
We heard your requests that kidstickets ages are going up.
The resort is even nicer. We won't be sitting down as
much. We'll be out networking.
Some of the sessions will even be outside on the water.
All with the vision of leaning into worldview, virtue, and

(01:24:55):
impact. March 5th, 6th and 7th here in
Oceanside, CA. Let's got something.
Go to blessgotsummit.com and getyou tickets now.
I decided to just come not really knowing what to expect

(01:25:15):
and man, I'm so glad that I did.You don't expect it to be so
intimate. And so like the the group of
people that was there, I think it was great.
We were able to see people who are truly seeking God.
We got to see a ton of people who are special and we'll call
it in the industry. One of our major takeaways has
just been how God blesses in being faithful.
A lot of Christians just want tochase after success instead of

(01:25:39):
chasing faithfulness. I think it's just been really
effective how like everybody hasbeen teaching you how they've
been able to like follow Jesus and make disciples as they're
going. It's a really classy.
Summit I am just very impressed with the quality and the
structure and just a very classy, very nice.
Much as like we can get so much from online content, there's a

(01:26:01):
huge difference between being here.
None of these people are egotistical.
They'll shake hands with you. Why did the sponsorship back in
November and just left it in God's hands and then just
prepared myself if he allowed it, that I would be here.
Here I am. People that you're going to meet
are amazing. You're going to meet friends
here and you're also going to beedified.
Honestly amazed at the diversityin the in the need.

(01:26:24):
It's a super fun time, so you guys are not going to want to
miss out.

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