Prosperity Gospel Has Infiltrated the Church... Here's The Solution

In this candid convo, we move past prosperity-gospel clichés to build a biblical framework for money, work, contentment, and ambition. We react to Patrick Bet-David’s viral Jubilee episode (capitalism vs. communism), unpack why hustle culture/MLM shortcuts fail, and lay out practical steps—skills, blue-collar resilience, living below your means, generosity, and Sabbath rhythms to avoid burnout. If you’ve wondered, “Can ambition be godly?” this will recalibrate your vision. Subscribe & leave a review.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All of This is why I think the prosperity gospel becomes so
persuasive. Are you preaching that American
prosperity gospel? He said.
No, Jesus was not born in America.
Are you mad at me about that? And they're like, well, maybe I
need to listen to more Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland, and

(00:22):
maybe I need to think bigger thoughts.
I get a lot of Flack in that I don't go as hard against the
prosperity. Gospel.
When do you see that it does kind of cross that line?
There's this draw back to tradition, whether it's the
Greek Orthodox Church, even Catholicism.
Well it's it's so easy to be against what I'm saying because

(00:42):
it is anti cultural to say hey. Bruce LON.
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(01:03):
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mygodlyambition.com to redeem your pre-order off.
Right, let's jump into the video.
With what you're writing about, I think it's really, really
interesting to kind of discuss this aspect within our culture.
Like we were just talking about Jean Marc Comer.
So we're having this like, you know, this, this rest even in
like progressive spaces, there'sthis draw back to tradition,

(01:28):
whether it's the Greek Orthodox Church, even Catholicism, you
know, and I kind of get it. I do my family, my parents were
married in the Greek Orthodox Church.
And it's there's something very deep about the tradition and all
the things. And so with what you're writing
about, though, you're talking about ambition, like you're

(01:48):
talking about going to get it and, and, and putting your your
foot forward and that it's not like a unbiblical thing to do.
It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that other part
of culture that kind of seems tobe against what you're saying.
Well, it's, it's so easy to be against what I'm saying because

(02:10):
it one, it's, it is anticulturalto say, hey, there's a way that
you can build a life that blesses God, that helps people
lead your family well without losing your soul.
And it does require effort and restraint and a vision and a
plan. It's not going to happen magical

(02:30):
where God's just going to send money fairy dust on your life
and then you become rich overnight.
Like that's not how any of this works.
And yeah, it is it is very countercultural.
I think there's a lot of reasonswhy.
One of the reasons is I think people are burnt on hustle
culture, rightfully so, which I think is why John Mark Comer's
work is so popular. I think 2:00 because the

(02:52):
prosperity gospel is so poisonous in so many different
ways, because it puts the onus on you if you believe more, if
you just pray more than God willdo the thing.
And I think that's that's awful because like they're like, there
are people that believe and don't get their healing and
don't get their miracle right. And to just put that on them, I
think it's it's unhelpful. And I also think that there is

(03:14):
this might be more even than probably the most controversial.
Have you seen the Did you watch the Jubilee surrounded 20 versus
1? Oh, I've seen him, a few of
them. Which one are you referring to?
So Patrick bid David, who I'm not like fully endorsing
everything he does in in his life, but he just did 11
capitalist versus 20 anti capitalist.

(03:35):
Yeah, OK. I'm.
Going to react. I'm going to react to it and the
degree of just utter communisticMarxist thinking that's crept
into the church with regards to themes around finances, private
property rights, work ethic is is so bad.
And I'm not just talking about progressive circles, like I'm

(03:55):
talking in evangelical circles, right?
Just this, this, this disdain for anyone that has done
anything significant that it that they're bad, they're evil.
And in in the in the video, I mean, it's very revealing.
He offered multiple people's jobs, multiple people jobs.
He offered multiple people to get treatment that specialized
treatment that they couldn't afford if they went and saw a, a

(04:17):
solid psychologist and they had like people just turn it down.
So I think there's also a disdain for the the free market
system, which has its own issuesand has its own flaws.
And I think some of that has crept into the church, not just
in progressive circles, but likein regular evangelical circles
where people were just angry. 100% yeah.
It's interesting because, you know, my background, my

(04:39):
wheelhouse is new thought, right?
And that's at the beginning of like the capitalist boom in
America. And yeah, right, the prosperity
thinking like Napoleon Hill. You have MLM's, business gurus,
you have people that are using these positive thinking
techniques that worked. You know what I mean?
Like it actually worked. But along with it, you're having

(05:01):
kind of like this pseudo spirituality go along with it.
That's a whole other thing. But the overall mentality I
agreed with when it came to especially being in America, in
a country where you have so muchopportunity to grow, so much
opportunity to build a business,to do whatever you wanted.

(05:24):
I totally took that for granted.Like as a kid, as an adult, I, I
see it so differently now. I'm like, man, I can do whatever
I want. Like this is so great.
I if I believe it, I can do it and kind of thing, you know, And
so there's, there's that that's in the water in America.
But I see what you're saying though, with all of that stuff

(05:44):
coming into not just of America,but the church, because it's
looked at as a virtue to to yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Like it's looked at as a virtue,like, wow, look at all that I
do. Look at all the things that I'm
giving and helping all these people.
What would you say to? Because what I what I see is

(06:09):
it's a strong word, but almost like a victim mentality because
here's here's the problem. Tell me what you think about
this, Ruslan. So I see this and I'm an
observer. I like watching people.
And then I might, you know, say something or do something, but I
watched for a long time. And here's a pattern that I'm
seeing is that we're in America,we're in this, We're talking
about ambition, right? And then we'll talk about the
difference between the two because I want to ask you about

(06:31):
that too. But you have this ambitious
mindset and a lot of people in whatever group that they're in,
no matter where they're at in America, and they say, I want to
be this, I want to be a CEOI want to be a rapper, I want to
be a YouTube, I want to be, you know, a doctor, whatever, right?

(06:51):
But then you have this other group saying no, no, no, you
don't want to be ACEO. Those are the bad guys.
They just make money and they'regreedy, right?
You don't want to be this capitalist freak, so stay here,
right? OK, so you have this tug in this
pool because you think that it'sa vice to become successful in

(07:12):
America because then you're going to be rich and then you're
going to be pushing these other people down and there's this
constant tension. What do you say about that?
Because I think it creates like a victim mentality.
But what? What do you think?
Well, I think the frame of everything you described as a 0
sum game, so the view that in order for someone to make a

(07:34):
profit that someone else is losing somehow, right?
And I just don't think that that's how the broader value
system works. Like if I'm buying something,
that doesn't mean that I'm somehow the victim and I got
exploited and the person on the other end of that is coming up
and got pulling over on me. Like those are the generally

(07:55):
like those products, especially today would be like that's a
scam or they'll get they'll get blasted for bad reviews, right.
So I think I think 1 is just a 0sum mentality of like, Hey, if
you don't, someone doesn't have to lose in order for someone to
win. That doesn't mean that
everybody's always going to win.But I think foundationally that
like that's a, that's a huge, huge crux.

(08:16):
And so my opinion is people are going to go after something that
they aim at. And if they don't aim at
anything, then they're going to hit it all the time.
And that is just uncomfortable for people.
And then when you add the spiritual component to it, then
we're pulling verses like first Timothy 6, you know, for the

(08:39):
love of money is a route to all kinds of evil.
But we're we're we're removing it from first Timothy 5, which
says he who does not provide forthe needs of his family,
specifically his immediate family has denied the faith and
is worse than a non believer. That's in the context, by the
way, of a church welfare system that's taking care of widows,
right? As in take care of your own

(09:00):
widows and your own elderly, thewidows that are young that can
get married, let them get remarried and the widows that no
one can take care of, that's whothe church is supposed to care
for. So it's this really interesting
layout that Paul does. And so I think what's happened
and, and I'd actually like to hear thoughts on this.
I think people think that that'seasy.
Like people think First Timothy 5 is easy, like take care of
your own family and your immediate family or you're worse

(09:22):
than I believe. And they're like, oh, that's so
easy. And so they think the temptation
is becoming too successful and too rich and too powerful.
And it's like, listen, that and I'm not, and I'm not trying to
dunk on our, our sisters in Christ here, but that's like
women who are like, Hey, I'm afraid to go to the gym because
I'm going to get too bulky. It's like, or guys that are

(09:45):
like, I'm afraid to go to the gym because I'm going to get too
jacked and too vain. And, and listen, there's a chasm
of a difference of like where most of us are to just maintain
a healthy body fat percentage and to just stay within a
healthy BMI and like becoming too attractive because you're
too jacked and too in shape, right?
You're too, there's a chasm of adifference.
So it's like assuming that it's easy, it's not, it's not easy to

(10:07):
say, hey, I have enough to provide from my family and by
the way, taking my mother-in-lawif I need to, or taking my
sister-in-law or taking my nieceif I have like that's not easy
to do. That's actually difficult.
Yet that seems to be the standard in Scripture in terms
of how every one of us live. And so that then creates this
weird like, well, y'all think this is easy?

(10:27):
Like nothing about being a provider of a household is easy.
It's actually very difficult, especially in the climate that
we're in today with wealth inequality, AI jobs getting
automated, jobs getting sent overseas.
And then what do you think is going to happen to the Christian
that's like too afraid to becomesuccessful because they think
that they're going to become toorich and too powerful and get

(10:49):
too much money and then walk away from God?
I think most people are on the other end of the spectrum where
their issue is not too much ambition.
Their issue is apathy and being the the servant that buried
their talents because there's somuch cognitive dissonance if I
do, if I get too big and too bulky and too vain and too
successful. And it's like, let's just get us
to baseline. Like we're not even at baseline.

(11:09):
Like most people are living paycheck to paycheck.
Most people don't have anything in their savings.
Most people don't have anything in terms of the overflow of a
biblical worldview on finances. And then we want to talk about
First Timothy. 6th love of moneyis the root of all evil.
I'm going to say this last part that also assumes that the love
of money is only a vice that wealthy people succumb to or

(11:30):
successful people succumb to. I would say the person and
that's squandering everything they earn also has an issue with
the love of money. I would say the person that's
spending everything they make italso has an issue with the love
of money and greed because they can't even they, they can't even
live below their means right now.
Some of that is environmental. Some of that I understand.
There's all kinds of awful, tragic situations I'm talking

(11:50):
about. I'm generally speaking in the
West in the most prosperous opportune time that we've ever
existed. Like, I just don't see the
Apostle Paul arriving in 2025 and being like, Hey, you guys,
really young men, you guys really need to turn, turn it
down and like rest more. Like I, I, I'm like, I don't
see, I don't see Peter. Like man, you guys are just

(12:11):
doing too much. Like it's just too much.
You know, you gotta be careful because you might.
And it's like, I don't, I don't see.
I think they're going to say, Hey, are you even able to
provide for your wife and kids and, and, and, and create a life
that's sustainable for them? Save something for retirement.
So you can, you can retire with dignity.
That's that's where I think we're at.
And, and, and maybe because I came out of like the Dave Ramsey

(12:32):
paradigm, maybe because I got out of debt, maybe because I've
seen the, the overflow of like living below your means, saving,
having a budget, getting out of debt, giving generously,
cheerfully. I, I just, I just tend to have a
different paradigm of, of this stuff.
So anyway, I know I said a wholelot there and, and, and bounced
a whole lot off. And by the way, and all of This
is why I think the, the, the prosperity gospel becomes so

(12:53):
persuasive because so many people have tried it and have
failed. And they're like, well, maybe I
need to listen to more Joel Osteen or Kenneth Copeland and
maybe I need to think bigger thoughts.
And I think that's, so I say to say, if we're not giving people
a biblical alternative, then they're they're going to slide
into apathy or they're going to slide into prosperity gospel or
manifestation, new Age thought. And that concerns me.

(13:17):
Like that troubles me deeply because outside of Dave Ramsey
and maybe a handful of other people, I don't think anyone's
talking about these things in a healthy way.
This is it's a very interesting angle that you're hitting on
because it's a spiritual aspect to it, because I, OK, I remember
taking a class in seminary and you read such interesting and

(13:38):
sometimes really boring like books and seminary.
One of them that my professor kept talking about.
It was a political, not a political.
Was it political science? I think it was a political
science class, but we're talkingabout economics, like the
different theories of economy, like socialism, capitalism, all
the things libertarianism. And one book he kept bringing up

(14:00):
was money, greed and God. Have you ever read this book?
It sounds amazing though. It really is because you're
talking about this, you're talking about a spiritual aspect
of it, but everything that is aligned with God is aligned with
truth, right? And so if you're having, if
we're talking about economics and we're talking about ways in

(14:21):
which you can make wealth in your country, OK, like This is
why capitalism is it's a hot topic because it's not perfect.
But if you're talking about tested, tried and true ways to
make prosperity in your country,this market, like, you know what
I mean? And so this book in a very, very

(14:45):
philosophical, succinct, truthful way, breaks down
everything. A lot of what you're you're
talking about. I had to look it up because as
you were talking like, oh, yeah,this book, because that's what
it reminded me of the other one.OK, so there's another book that
has a similar title that does gointo spiritual things, and it's
God, Greed and the Prosperity Gospel by Costy Hinn.

(15:06):
Have you read that? No, I've watched a lot of Costy
Hinn's stuff, but I've never read any of his work.
So costy he was a very this bookis really interesting to read
and it might be something that people might think about as a
follow up to your what you wroteabout.
And the reason why is because hetalks a lot about in the end,

(15:26):
because this is a common question he got.
And I remember this because he comes from the prosperity
gospel. And the idea is, well, what do
you do when you're a Christian and you want you're, you're
rich, right? I mean, is it a sin to be having
all of this, all all this financial gain?
And isn't this greedy? Isn't this power?

(15:48):
Isn't this, this isn't that? And his, his answer was so good
and succinct. And he's saying like, no, it's a
responsibility. You're stewarding this.
And it goes into what you were just saying about I, I think you
even wrote about this in your book, The Stewardship of what We
have. Yeah, it's a responsibility.
It's not a sin. It's a responsibility.

(16:09):
So if you do happen to be rich and a Christian, that's not a
sin. It's a, it's more of a
responsibility you're providing for you and your family, but the
more that you are given, the more responsibility you have.
And so that that kind of I'm, I'm paraphrasing, but that
actually really made sense to me.
OK, so here's a question with all of that.

(16:30):
What do you have to say about the Christian who might be
listening or maybe, you know, listening to this kind of us
having this conversation? And they're like, well, what
does the Bible say about contentment?
Like, doesn't Scripture say thatthat's the goal is that we
should be content in what we have?
Why do we always have to be trying to grow and grow and
grow? Won't we ever be just happy with

(16:52):
what we have? What would you say in response
to that? Yeah, that's a great, that's a
great question. And let me just piggyback what
you said. So this is actually addressed in
church history in in a book called Who is the Rich man that
She'll be saved? A book by St.
Clement of Alexandria. And and because what was
happening is that all the suddenthere was wealthy people that

(17:12):
were coming to faith and they were trying to process what do
you do with all these folks thatare coming to faith?
And it wasn't it, it it was thisis I think the 1st century ish.
Someone will get, you know, correct me on that if I'm wrong.
Yeah, this is this is pretty early that that the church was
the church history was dealing with it.
Yeah. So I think contentment is the
launchpad to godly ambition. I think contentment is the frame

(17:32):
in which we can move towards stewardship, right?
Because if you're not content with what you have, that means
that you're already lacking gratitude.
And gratitude tends to be the rocket fuel to actually grow in
stewardship. Because me as someone that
worked with adults with developments with disabilities,
right, that was my last like quote UN quote 9 to 5 type job

(17:54):
when we went through a financialtransformation and paid off a
lot of debt. I was not a YouTube, I was not a
rapper. I was not doing anything
special. I was working a regular job with
adults with developments with disabilities.
My wife was working a regular job.
I think she had two jobs at the time.
I think she was working at the city of Vista and working at US
mailing House, two-part time jobs.
And I was trying to get the music off the ground on the

(18:15):
side. And so that contentment becomes
the launchpad into trying to improve the things that God has
already entrusted you with, right?
So again, I go always go back tothe parable of the talents,
right? One has five, one has three, one
has 1. And I think when you see
yourself as someone that has been given gifts, talents,

(18:38):
visions, dreams, ideas, ways to solve problems, you see yourself
as someone like that. I think the launchpad to that
has to be contentment. So I don't, I don't think that
these are in opposition because I first have to be OK with
saying, hey, if I never make anymore money, I never do anything
special, Am I happy with what God has for me?
And I would say if you are, thatbecomes the launchpad to say, OK

(19:01):
now in that I want to manage what God has given me to be the
optimal steward of the time, talented treasure.
And so I think these things are complementary.
I don't think they're in in contrast or in contradiction.
And usually we like to go one oftwo extremes, right?
Like we naturally go to like it's one of the other.

(19:22):
Like I either got to always put my head down and grind, grind,
grind, grind, grind, or I have to go and just be super content.
But the scriptures in Proverbs 6talks about this gazelle
intensity that, that Dave Ramseytalks about, right?
And in Proverbs 6, it describes someone that has went into debt.
They've they've made some bad decisions.
And then in it, it, it, it says like, Hey, if you have done

(19:46):
this, you need to go through a season of cleaning up your mess.
I'm paraphrasing, but I'll, I'llread it to you, right?
It says, my son, if you've put up security for your neighbor,
if you have shaken hands in a pledge for a stranger, you have
been trapped by what you said, ensnared by the words of your
mouth. So do this, my son, to free
yourself. Since you have fallen into your

(20:07):
neighbor's hands, go to the point of exhaustion and give
your neighbor no rest. Allow no sleep to your eyes, no
slumber to your eyelids. Free yourself like a gazelle
from the hand of the. Hunter like a bird from the
snare of the Fowler Go to the Ant, you sluggard, consider its
ways and be wise. It has no commander, no overseer
or ruler, yet it stores its provision in summer and gathers

(20:29):
its food at harvest. Right.
So this is describing someone that's made a mess of their
situation because they've they've made a pledge with their
neighbor and it says you need tobe intense for a season.
OK, Now this is even using really intense language that
like our Sabbath culture is going to find very offensive.
Allow no sleep to your eyes, no slumber to your eyelids.

(20:50):
I don't think Solomon is being literal in that sense.
Like I don't think he's saying like don't sleep and don't ever
rest. But I think he is saying that,
hey, there are times in life, there are seasons in life where
we have to put our head down andclean up some of the messes that
we've made or some of the messesthat we've arrived in.
Maybe maybe you didn't make it. Maybe this is your situation and
that season is going to be different than a season when, I

(21:14):
don't know, me and my wife are having a baby.
I think I told you this, right? We have a baby coming in
November, right? So like that's a different
season. Like when my wife has a baby,
I'm not traveling, I'm not speaking, I'm not promoting a
book. I'm present because my wife just
had a baby. That's a lot of changes.
That's a lot of physical changeson her body.
That's a different season. And I think we want all to

(21:34):
nothing, right? So contentment is just
contentment. But don't ignore that there are
seasons in life where you got toput your head down and work and
that's good. Like that's a good thing and got
to has designed the universe to work in A cause and effect
reality that, that, that like it's not this like the universe
is working for you and, and you just got to believe it and

(21:55):
things don't happen to you, theyhappen for you or whatever,
whatever those cheesy friends like.
No, no, no, there's a cause and effect universe.
And when we make some mistakes, there are going to be effects of
that. And then we get to figure out
how are we going to navigate that?
Are we are we going to process this and work through it?
Or are we just going to allow ourselves to succumb to the
culmination of the mistakes we've made or perhaps the ways

(22:16):
of people have sinned against us?
That's what Proverbs 6 is, is getting out of my opinion.
And so yeah, I think contentmentyesterday, men.
And then also be self aware of what season you're in.
And you may need to go a little harder.
You might need to work a little longer.
You might need to pick up a sidehustle, get on task rabbit drive
for Uber to clean up some of those messes.
Not indefinitely, but we're for a season.

(22:36):
Yeah, it sounds like there's godly ambition and godly
contentment because I mean, it'sthe no matter what happens.
And I think that's where godly comes in, where it's hard to be
content without having God as the pinnacle of your life,
because that's how we can get through anything.
Is that in in it's what Paul says, you know, in sickness and
in health and in great poverty and great wealth.

(22:58):
He's been through it all and he has found that there's
contentment in Christ. And so I think that there's,
yeah, there's a there's a connection there.
What do you have to say for OK, The hustle culture.
You mentioned the hustle culture.
There's this really funny comedian.
I don't even know if you know who he is.

(23:18):
He was a part of the Dad Life video many years ago.
I don't know if you've ever seenit.
It was hilarious, though. It's for it was for Father's
Day. And he has these different
personas. His name is Chris Munch, and he
has these different personas that he that he plays.
And one persona is I think it's MLM Dave.

(23:40):
I think it's the name of it. Yeah, I think it's what it is.
And basically he is just portraying like the scummiest
version of hustle culture. And every time he does this
character, I think of Bruslan because I'm like, oh, this is
what Ruslan's talking about, right?
Like, he's talking about the gritty, gross stuff that, you
know, comes in this. But the problem is obvious,

(24:03):
right? Because you have like, why do
people have hustle culture? You have the Andrew Tates.
You have people out that, yeah, like, you have people out there
who are kind of scummy, but you have a wave.
They have waves of followers that are like, yeah, this is
the, this is the motivation I need.
This is what I need to hear. This is exactly what I needed in
my life to help me get my life together.

(24:24):
And then on top of that, I mean,Speaking of MLMS, you do have a
lot of where my wheelhouse comesin where you deal with a lot of
the spiritual pseudoscience nonsense, where the new the new
thought stuff comes in saying ifyou change the way you're
thinking, if you change your attitude, which is true, then
you will get results. And this is how you become rich.
You got to work, work, work, work.

(24:45):
But this is all of this is like used as almost like a, like
propaganda, but you know, it, it's used as a way to kind of
get you to work harder for, for them.
It's like you're kind of trickedinto it, if that makes sense,
right? And you have this hustle culture
and there's some good things that go along with it.

(25:07):
But I'm wondering, like just everything I've said, what are
your thoughts on this? Because this is the problem is
that I can see a lot of people thinking that what you're saying
is that I'm already working hardand that I need to basically
work harder. And this ties into maybe people
who might not have the best attitude or maybe they're down
on their luck. This is how this kind of culture

(25:28):
even exists because they're getting spoken to with positive,
you know, in positive ways. They're being pulled up by their
boots. They're they're encouraged.
They feel like, yeah, I can do this, but it's honestly done
through like the most negative means.
So what do you, how would you speak into that?
Like what would you say to somebody who's in maybe like a,

(25:50):
a high? What's it called?
Like a like you have to work really hard, like a high
maintenance, if you will, a business group, A seminar, an
MLM. And they are in the hustle
culture, but it's like the scummier part.
What would you say is like the better, truer aspect of that?
Yeah, I I I think of First Thessalonians 4 where Paul says,

(26:14):
you know, make it your ambitiously to quiet life,
working with your own hands. That's the the the the word
ambition there. That's what the whole book is
based on. It's a different word for
ambition than the selfish ambition that's described, which
is like a self striving, cuttingambition at Ethia is the Greek
version of the selfish ambition.And then this is like a filio

(26:35):
filio multi ambition, which is as ambition that serves other
people. So Paul says making the ambition
to the quiet life. And then he says he makes it his
ambition to preach the gospel where others haven't.
And then the other time he uses it in the New Testament, he
says, make it. I'm making my ambition to please
God, right? So those are the three times the
the godly ambition he's used. So I think my question for those

(26:56):
folks would be like, are you, are you trying to, is this, are
you being driven by selfish ambition or are you being driven
by godly ambition to serve otherpeople?
Because if I'm, what if they're?They're they're doing godly
ambition, but it's actually selfish.
Like what would you say? So I I would say working with
your own hands, right? I think this idea that like
becoming successful is going to be easy if you just find the

(27:20):
shortcut through something like an MLM is just not true.
This is what I mean. The people that are actually
going to become the the most successful in this next season
is not going to be guys who are selling some sort of MLM type
product. The, the most direct path right
now is actually going to be in the true collar jobs or the blue

(27:43):
collar jobs that can't be automated, right?
So this idea of like, hey, I'm down on my luck, I'm struggling.
So therefore I'm going to go join Herbalife and that's going
to be my way out. It it that that's actually not
it Like you need to go develop some blue collar skills, whether
that's plumbing, whether that's welding.
I got a friend of mine who reads, reads out.

(28:04):
I got a friend of mine who he did, he was a stay at home dad.
I had him on my channel. I tried to link it.
He is a stay at home dad and they were really struggling and
then he went and did this program at a local 16 week
certification program. And he is someone that climbs
the electrical lines, works for our our SDG and E making

(28:25):
multiple 6 figures, right? That's going to be the pathway
that has a sustainable, sustainable career that is not
going to get replaced with automation and AI.
So it's actually the opposite. Like this idea that like you're
just going to go so Herbalife and that's going to be your
pathway to become wealthy or stable or financially.

(28:47):
Like it's just, it's just not true anymore because so much
stuff is getting automated so quickly, right?
And so I think they're looking at it totally backwards.
If you think that like you don'tneed to have skills you can do
with your hands, like I think that working with your own hands
actually says a whole lot and, and there's something to that.
So it's like, what can you do with your own hands that cannot

(29:10):
be automated? And if your job is just trying
to sell a product you don't really believe in and, and then
not and, and worse, selling opportunity, which is much of
the MLM world. I don't want to hyper generalize
too much, but it's actually the money isn't selling the
opportunity to get rich, not theactual product to to to make
money on. I think all of that is

(29:31):
completely backwards to to what we see in in God, the ambition.
And so I've succumbed when I waswhen I turned 18, I got
recruited to a MLM. I succumb to some of that sort
of stuff. And I just woke up one day and
was like, why am I selling something I don't believe in, in
this opportunity? And I don't really even let me
figure out how to like, be a artist and sell my music

(29:53):
instead, right? Like, I think that's a more
direct path. It's like a product that I can
stand by. It's like, I made this CD.
Would you please buy it for 15 bucks versus trying to sell
something that I didn't make? So yeah, the, the, the negative
aspect I think is prying, praying on people and selling
them an opportunity that this isa, a shortcut to getting
wealthy. And there are no shortcuts to

(30:13):
getting wealthy. It that, that is not how it
works unless you get lucky. And then if you do, you really
don't want that cause your character is not going to be
caught up to handle getting richquick overnight, right?
So there is no shortcut. And I think that's the, the
MLM's, they sell you a dream anda hope that this is the surefire
way. And then you end up selling more
of an opportunity to other people.
You then sell the dream in the hope to other people if you're

(30:34):
going to become successful at it, not the actual product.
So I don't know if that answers your question.
I know I just, I just said a whole lot there.
No, no, that's good. Yeah.
So this is the one thing that really jumps out at me about
this whole topic is that there'salways like sidelines, right?
I mean, I have AII like to thinkI have a pretty eccentric family
because, you know, I was a semi professional artist for years.

(30:56):
That's what that was my bread and butter before YouTube.
And then I'm on YouTube, which is really fun, you know, getting
degrees and multiple things likeI, there's so many hats of
interests, so to speak out that we wear my husband's a hot air
balloon pilot and I just, I, I love America.
I love that we can like do this,right, that I'm interested in

(31:17):
this and I can make a way to make it happen and maybe even
make funds from it. If it's a hobby, great.
But here's my question. So with all of the opportunity
that we have, when does it crossthe line to become selfish?
Because here's the mentality that I find a lot of people have
is that it's never enough. Like we're we're talking about

(31:38):
contentment. This kind of I think undergirds
this whole thing because with all the things that I have
access to and the things that wedo, I am so happy.
Like I feel great. I feel I love my family.
I feel good that I can wake up everyday and do what we're
doing, but we're not rich, right?
Like we're not wealthy. When is it when it comes to

(32:01):
giving advice about ambition, about going and doing something
that you love and that you're good at?
When do you see that? It does kind of cross that line
because I, I see people are like, well, I want to get here,
I want to get here, I want to get here.
And you know what it reminds me of?
I remember one time there was another YouTube or they were on

(32:23):
Instagram or something and they were a Christian and I remember
them saying that this is like the IC factor.
He didn't say those words, but that's the kind of the way I see
it, I call this the IC factor, that there's never going to be
enough Subs. You're never going to have
enough followers. You're never going to have
enough fill in the blank. And once you realize that you're

(32:45):
on a hamster wheel and if you are on that hamster wheel,
you'll know it because you'll wake up every day just grinding
like you don't feel right. It's icky.
What would you say to somebody that might be struggling with
that where they're like, yeah, I'm doing what I'm good at and I
like it, but I feel like it, I, I'm working on this hamster

(33:08):
wheel to get there. Like how do, how do you square
that circle, you know, for the, for people that might be
struggling with that? Yeah, if that makes sense.
No, that makes a lot of sense. I think the question becomes
what is the what what is, Is there a goal where you're even
working for or do you just like the process of trying to build
something new, right. So I think like we were talking

(33:31):
about the book and writing the book and all this sort of stuff,
right? And it's like there is there is
a process that some of us fall in love with regarding
communicating ideas regarding building something that
hopefully helps other people. Some of us like it more than
others. And I don't think there's
anything wrong with someone saying, Hey, I, I love this
process and I'm enjoying this process.

(33:53):
And therefore I'm going to and Idon't really care where the
results are. Like I want this book to be
successful, but I genuinely loved talking about this.
And I, and it's going to do whatever God is, let's it do and
however God breathes on it versus saying like, I need to
sell this many books in order tofeel secure.
And if I don't feel secure, thenI'm a fit, right?
I'm a failure. I think that becomes a outward

(34:15):
measurement of your identity andsuccess.
And I that stuff you just can't always control, right?
You can't control the number of people that choose to opt in and
subscribe to your channel. You can't control the number of
books you sell. You can't control.
There's certain things that we can't control.
I think godly ambition and godlystewardship is saying, I'm going

(34:36):
to do the inputs in an attempt to steward and be faithful by
hopefully helping other people through the, the, the the wisdom
I've had the scars I've developed and maybe those those
will help other people. And then God ultimately breathes
on the thing, right? Like God breathes on the thing
and, and where it lands. Now, how does that, how does
that practically look? I think for me, we have a very

(34:57):
simple goal in terms of financially, I would love to be
able to have a paid for home within the next 5-10 years.
Like that would be a great goal for me because this that the
goal isn't more stuff like I don't need a bigger home.
I don't need more expenses and responsibilities.
Like I want to be to decrease my, my, my expenses so that I

(35:17):
can increase my giving and my generosity and have more of that
flexibility. So that's like a very specific
thing that we've talked about before that it was like, hey, we
want to get to of being debt free, then we want to have six
months of living expenses in thebank.
So I think if people know like if you're aiming at these
things, then you know that when you hit this, then cool, That's
that's the thing you're aiming for.
The issue is we don't know what we're aiming at.

(35:39):
So what you do is you slide intomore, more, more, more, more,
when in reality you don't need more, you may not need more.
Now again, I say having a paid for home to someone in Alabama
or in Arkansas, they'd be like, oh, that's, I did that last
year. My home's worth $100,000, right
To say that in Southern California, that sounds crazy,
right? Like so even even the even

(35:59):
that's relative, like that's relative based on where someone
lives, right? To say in Southern California, I
want to have a paid for home because I want to decrease my
biggest expense, which is my housing and be able to have more
flexibility and margin in my life.
That sounds like crazy talk, Butif you're in a different part of
the country, that's like, oh, that's, that's very reasonable,
very, very, very sensible. So that's, that's the first

(36:21):
thing. Know what you're shooting after.
The second thing I would say is what are those anchors in our
lives to keep us connected to reality and what it is that
we're ultimately here for? So I'm talking family dinners,
I'm talking tradition. I'm talking, yes, some Sabbath,
right? Taking time off, sleeping
regularly, taking care of your body, giving generously, like

(36:43):
we're big givers and give, give generously.
We always have. That is a rhythm that we
consistently do. We want to go above and beyond
and and be cheerful givers to our local church, to charities,
to nonprofits, to missionaries we believe in.
So those are the anchors that I think we put in place to keep us
in a godly frame with regarding to pursuing things.

(37:04):
Because you're totally right. You can just spin the wheels.
Now, again, if you're spinning the wheels because you love the
process, that's different than spinning the wheels because
you're insecure and you need external validation.
I have buddies that yeah, like Ihave buddies that lift weights
because they genuinely love whatit does to them.
They find it interesting. They like sculpting their body.

(37:27):
It's just like, they just love the process.
They got other friends. They're like, they're insecure,
they have body dysmorphia, they're getting on drugs and
they're like, like they're, they're, they're just regulated
emotionally and it's, and it's cope, like it's actually copium,
right? And so that's, that's that it
factor you're talking about. And to me, B, how we mitigate
that is 1 why, why are we doing it?

(37:47):
2, how those anchors? And then three, are you OK with
where you are right now? The contentment that we're
supposed to have in Christ Jesus?
And those are just some of the ways that I think about it.
And so for me, they are like, what are you aiming for?
I have a very specific thing I'maiming for.
I don't think it's crazy. And then on the other side, like
I enjoy some of the stuff I do, but I don't, I don't, I don't
think that like I'm defined by my external metrics, especially

(38:10):
on YouTube. You know this, Melissa, we have
peak months and then it's like, and if I'm validated by my
numbers and my external metrics or how many people say something
positive or negative about me, like, oh man, that is an awful
way to live your life. So those are just some of the
things. I guess you pointed that out.
I'm I'm thinking off the top. But I have one more thing for
you that I think might be helpful to kind of tie it in a

(38:31):
bow. But OK, so you and I were
talking recently that and I was,we were trying to get this
scheduled and I was like, yeah, I'm actually going through like
a season of, I would say burnout, but I like it.
It's like because it's like a you write a book.
And my experience was we hit theground running.
It was boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

(38:53):
Like back-to-back. Marketing was supposed to be
over in like March. It kept going through July,
which is good, but it's a lot. And for me, I really, really
like the topic. But we're talking about like an
ick factor with it. You have to sell a book, right?
I like the topic, but you write a book to help people, right?

(39:15):
You want them to to read it. You want them to come with it.
But then you've then there's this.
Here's the IC part of the capitalism, right?
Where it's a business. It has to run in a certain way
that I don't like. And there's an element of of it,
I guess that I'm just like, OK, I'm kind of burned out.
I need to rest. I need to to relax and get my

(39:36):
mind off of it. And it there's something very
healthy that's come from that where I don't.
I, I know this sounds weird, maybe curt, but I kind of don't
care as much. And I like that.
Yeah. Like, I don't care if I can't do
what I say no. And I don't even feel guilty,
Right. There is an element of
perspective, I guess, that I've had being ambitious, writing a

(40:01):
book and all of this and. I, I, the, the thread that, of
you know, the common thread, I think that I'm, I'm getting out
here with this whole thing is, is how do you sideline burnout,
right? Like you're wanting to be
ambitious. You, you need to, you know, you
need to do this right? Like you need to bring it forth.

(40:24):
You need to give your best. And I did and I do.
And now I'm resting, I'm in a place of rest where and I, I'm
enjoying it. But what do you say to somebody
that needs to hustle, right? They need, they need to do the
work, they need to do the job. And when they are in a season of
burnout, what to do so that you don't become, I want to say

(40:50):
hard, hard hearted about it anymore.
I'm not saying that I'm there atall, but that's what I think I'm
saying is that I knew when I needed to stop and and just
relax for a little bit and say no a lot more.
But what would you say to somebody that you know, they
want to have the ambition, they want to do it in a godly way,
but what does ungodly burnout look like in that regard?

(41:12):
Yeah. And that's just a good, OK.
So I'm fortunate. I'm so fortunate in that, in
that like I have a baby coming like there is no right.
Like there is no like burnout like like, hey, like
mid-october. I'm not, I'm even nervous about
like early October, like travel stuff and books.
Like I'm like, oh man, we're really kind of cutting in close.

(41:34):
But I have had kids and I've walked through the process And
so I'm fortunate in that like I understand I can't do the
maintain this pace indefinitely,right?
I think that I'm fortunate in that regard.
I have an external human, like an external factor human that I
just can't spin my wheels. And I think maybe maybe that's

(41:55):
the Lord, like maybe God's timing and all of this because
we weren't planning to have another kid, but maybe God's
timing, the book date was set and it just, it just kind of
worked out. So I'm fortunate in that sense.
I think what you're getting at, Melissa, is the principle we see
in Scripture, Leviticus 25, Exodus 23, where it it talks
about like God is instructing the Israelites to let the land

(42:16):
rest, right, Let the land rest. And that is the that is that,
that, that that rhythm and that Sabbath aspect that I think
people do need, especially folksthat that are hard runners,
creative, a multi talented. Your book was very impactful.

(42:37):
Well, it was heady for you, but it was impactful for the people
that needed it. Like my wife is going through it
right now. She's about halfway done and she
loves it, right. And so like, yeah, you're,
you're, you're doing good work. And when you're doing good work,
there is a pouring out that happens, right?
There's a, there's a, the Lord is the Lord pours us out as like
a offering for the, for the benefit of other people.

(42:59):
And that is, that is difficult. Like that's again, it's this
idea that like all of this is easy.
Like none of this is easy. And anyone that's ever tried to
build anything, a YouTube channel, release a book knows it
like this stuff is not easy, right?
So when you're, when you're poured out and then you're like,
OK, now I need to recalibrate and now I need to refocus and
now I need to rest. I think that is a good thing.

(43:21):
The way I tend to do it, the waythat works for me is I, I do
regular rhythms of that meaning that I, I sleep 8 to 9 hours a
day, I take naps, I take days off.
I, I have time that's earmarked just for my family.
I have time to earmark for myself daily.
And so for me, I think I've beenfortunate in like I have a lot

(43:43):
of flexibility and it's those daily non negotiables, daily
systems that have thus far. Again, I don't want to, I don't
want to speak out of term, but thus far have prevented burnout
for me right now, right, like right now I'm at this way now
again, I got AI got a month of fairly intense travel where I go
out Saturday to Minneapolis, come back, do an event Tuesday,

(44:03):
leave Wednesday for Nashville, comeback, go to Branson, MO,
comeback, go to Dallas, TX, comeback, go to San Antonio, come
back, go to North Carolina. So I have like the next 4 weeks
are really hard. And so I'm mentally gauging
myself, but I'm also like, OK, rhythms, daily things, exercise,
sunlight, touch grass that I gota Sprint, right?
I got a Sprint. Now I'm sure I'll be on the

(44:25):
other side of that. Like when this is all done and
and mid-october rolls around, I'll probably maybe I'll feel
like you where I'm like, I'm cooked, like I don't want to do
anything else. I don't want to speak anywhere
else. And I'll just rest and I'll
enjoy being a, you know, a new, a new dad with a new kid and a
new, you know, a whole new season of life that's about to
hit us. So to answer your question
shortly, I think we prevent burnout by making rest a part of

(44:48):
our rhythm. And that looks like sleep,
exercise, sunlight, time with the family, naps.
Those are the things that I'm doing right now.
And if you prioritize those things, I think that's a way to
mitigate it in a busy season. If you're not prioritizing those
things, it's that what is that Abraham Lincoln quote?
I think I don't know if I have it in the book, right?

(45:08):
If I had five hours to cut down a tree, I'd spend the first
three hours sharpening my axe, right?
Are we sharpening our axe? And like, you're about to go do
this crazy thing of putting out a book that's going to change
people's lives. But are you doing that in a way
that you're first sharpening your axe?
Your mind is sharp, you're rested, you're refreshed, you

(45:31):
you're studied, you have time with the family.
And then the thing that's being put out is from a place of
overflow and not from a drought.It's not from a I'm dry and I'm
trying to force this thing, but versus I'm doing this from a
place of overflow. And so I could, I could take all
the negative that comes along with this.
I could take the positive that comes along with this, because

(45:51):
none of that ultimately defines me and defines you and defines
what we're doing. Yeah, that was that.
I like the way you worded that because I know exactly how that
feels when you're in a drought and you're like, right, But then
if it's overflowing, you can't shut up about it, you know?
That's it. Yeah.
And you were like that with yourbook.
Like when you came and we sat and for a number of hours, you

(46:13):
were just like, man, it was just, it was just flowing out of
you. I'm probably like that in this
conversation where you're askingme very simple questions and I'm
just like, right, It's. But when something is.
Talk about it. Yeah, when something's from an
overflow, and I think by the way, punchline that is, that is
the overflow. The overflow is the premise of
godly ambition and godly stewardship.
Don't do anything. Don't how to fake like an expert

(46:34):
at something that you're not like I'm not Wes Huff.
I don't talk about manuscripts. Like I'm not Melissa Daughtery.
I don't position myself as an expert of, of, of new age and
new thought. I go to the experts.
So like, if I want to talk aboutnew age, new thought and like
the cancerous implications, the prosperity gospel and, and all
the I'm going to go to Melissa. I'm going to let someone, this
is your wheelhouse. I'm going to let you cook on
that. I'm going to let Wes cook on
manuscripts. And that is another way to kind

(46:56):
of protect yourself from like, I'm, I, I people are like, do
you have imposter syndrome? And I'm like, no, because I
don't talk about stuff that I'm an imposter wrong.
Like I talk about what I know. And a lot of that is just like
my life and, and, and my scars and saying how can I compress
that for people and make it So what took me 20 years?
Maybe I'll take them two, two tofive years.
Dude, preacher Ruslan over here and pastor syndrome is so I'm so

(47:19):
glad you brought that up. That is such a big a big issue.
I think the workaholics need to hear this, right?
Like everything that you're saying.
And then I think what it comes down to as identity is just
knowing who you are. If you know who you are in
Christ, all of this, I think, just falls into place because if
he's at the center, yeah, all ofthis makes sense.

(47:40):
But yeah, I know this is good. I'm.
Let me let me ask you a question.
On imposter syndrome. I did that.
I maybe, maybe I will. Let me ask you a question about
let me ask you this. I get a lot of Flack in that I I
guess don't go as hard on the prosperity gospel, right Against
the prosperity gospel, though, Ithink I've been fairly clear
that I think it's unhelpful. What do?
You mean by that? What they want from you, I think

(48:03):
they want more discernment ministry stuff where I'm calling
out the Joel Osteen's and I'm calling out the Kenneth
Copeland's and I'm called right.I think I think more that that I
think they want some of that. And so, but here's my thought
and I and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I think if we don't provide people a biblical alternative
for prosperity and success, cause and effect universe, live

(48:24):
below your means, become useful,develop some some skills that
the market deems valuable, save give cheerfully.
If we don't provide a framework that's a biblical framework.
I think that is how the prosperity gospel continues
sprouting up and that it and, orthat is how people slide into
apathy and disillusionment. And so I, I'll be curious to

(48:44):
hear your thoughts, like in thisconversation, like I'm really
trying to give people a biblicalframework because that is what
that is what I come from, right?Like I've never been like a
name, a claimant, blab it, grab it.
I'm just going to think it and it's just going to happen type
of approach. But I think like when we don't
provide alternatives, that is when these false teachings

(49:06):
spread out, when we don't, when we don't pull the weeds and
plant gardens, there's just going to be more weeds.
There's going to be more wild stuff that, that, that, that,
that sprouts up. That's unhelpful, right?
And so like that, that's, that'smy, my heart in like talking
about some of this stuff, which is very unpopular to talk about,
talk about money, talk about success, talk about finances.
It's so it's so it's so. They're going to come for you.

(49:27):
Yeah, it's so ich, right. But I think there's a strong
dislike. This is, I feel like I put a
line in the sand where like, I am not a prosperity gospel guy,
but let's not pretend why the prosperity gospel is so
pervasive in so many of these situations, situations
especially folks coming from poverty, especially developing
nations. Like this stuff is pervasive for

(49:47):
a reason. And it's in my opinion, because
there isn't a lot of great biblical teaching on this sort
of stuff. I think that there's a a line to
draw from how to be successful biblically and responsible with
it. But OK, so people give you a
hard time because you don't cover the prosperity gospel like

(50:13):
how they would like clarify thatfor me.
I'm kind of hung up on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think like, my heart is like, hey, it's that, it's that
age-old saying of like, you know, when someone's learning,
when someone's working at A, at A, at a bank, the way they learn
what real money is versus counterfeit money is that you

(50:33):
spend more time learning and feeling the touch of real money
instead of just trying to touch and, and, and study every single
counterfeit, right. And so I think it's, and both
like I think we need to know when there's a counterfeit bill
in front of us, but I think alsolike handling biblical truth
oftentimes mitigates when the false counterfeit comes, right?

(50:56):
Pointing people towards the biblical and towards the thing
we should be known by, we shouldbe doing.
I think is a, is a, is a way that I prefer to mitigate it.
Now again, obviously I'm friendly with you.
I'm friendly with Mike Winger. I highlight a lot of the stuff
you guys talk about. So I think there is a time and a
place to call out the counterfeit.
But I say, well, shouldn't we bepointing people to the real, the

(51:17):
authentic, the real thing as well?
And I think when we don't, then people are more likely to
succumb to the counterfeits. Why don't you do both?
I do because. You're OK.
Yeah, because that's that's the only thing I could think of.
I guess that's where I'm kind of, you know, I'm like, well,
where have you not like where have you shown support, I
suppose, for prosperity preachers, which you haven't,

(51:40):
you know. So doing both, I think goes hand
in hand because ultimately here's here's where you find
yourself in my opinion, you are writing a book about the poverty
gospel in essence, right? Where, and I've said this
before, I've actually said the opposite.
And this is, this is what prosperity preachers will claim.

(52:01):
They'll say, well, I mean, it's,it's the gospel of prosperity
and you are basically believing in a gospel of poverty.
They make that claim. And I, I said, no, it the
opposite of the prosperity gospel is not poverty gospel.
It's just the gospel, like it's against the gospel, right?

(52:23):
You're coming in and you're supplementing a healthy biblical
teaching about, hey, you guys can be successful, there's
nothing sinful about this, here's how to sideline yourself,
yadda, yadda, yadda. But maybe perhaps what they're
saying is a missing element here.
So as you were talking, what I was thinking about is if I went
to the doctor and say something was wrong with my body, right?

(52:46):
Like, do you ever listen to Mr. Balin?
Like Mr. Balin's medical mysteries?
No. I love like true crime stuff and
Mr. Balin's like one of my favorite.
Anyway, it's it's like it's medical mysteries.
People go in and you tell stories about people who had
these issues with their bodies and diseases.
And it's it's fascinating. Anyway, the what comes to my

(53:06):
mind, OK, a lot of these people will go into the doctor and
they'll say, here are the symptoms.
Here's what's wrong with you, right?
They'll they'll, they'll tell you they can observe, hey,
here's something that's off and here's the cure.
But I'm sorry, I don't have a diagnosis for you.
Move on now. How much frustration would that

(53:28):
bring to you if you took your wife or child to the doctor and
he could observe that there was something off and he gave you a
way to remedy it, but he didn't tell you what was wrong with
you. He didn't tell you what was
wrong at all. That's kind of the issue.
I yeah, like that would. For me as a Christian, I find
frustration when I come across people who I don't know if

(53:51):
they're afraid. I don't know if they are trying
to be united. I don't know.
Just tell me. Tell me what garbage is right.
It's like they dance around it. I don't like that personally.
I'm like, tell me you're, you'regiving me the biblical teaching.
Fantastic. I love that.
But what am I supposed to be using this against?

(54:11):
Like I, I like the clear linear understanding of here's what's
here's the cure, but here's what's here's why you need the
cure. Like here's your diagnosis and
here's why it's a cure. And so for me, I find no issue
at all with you specifically pointing out, in fact, I think

(54:32):
that would be helpful if you took your book personal on if
you took your book and you said here is why it's biblical,
here's the disease though, here's why this is unbiblical
and you counteract that. I think that that would be
immensely helpful in my opinion,because I think that people, if

(54:54):
they don't have a grip on what the unbiblical looks like.
And this is what happened to me.I, I didn't have a context for
it. So what?
That's biblical. So that when I come across the
unbiblical, that line, it was crossed.
It went straight over my head because I didn't have pastor's

(55:19):
discipleship in my life that made that that direct linear
connection. I think that's what I would say.
And hopefully that makes sense. But that's what I kept thinking
of as, yeah, as you were talking, I'm like, I would hate
to go to a doctor, a theologian.It said, yeah, here, here's the
biblical precedent for this teaching without telling me.
Oh, and by the way, speaking things into existence is

(55:41):
unbiblical because of this or whatever, you know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely. You took my counterfeit money
metaphor and you raised it with a doctor metaphor.
I appreciate you doing. That you know who gave me that
idea? That was Natasha Crane.
She used that example as similarexample in her book and I'm like
way to raise the bar. That is a good example so.
That's a good example. Yeah, No, I like that.
I think, I think we'll make a carousel post on Instagram, I

(56:04):
think inspired by that by just saying, hey, here's the false
teaching about money and about prosperity, and here's the
biblical teaching. Like here's a, here's a on both
extremes. Like 1 extreme is the apathy
punt it aspect and in other extremes like ambition is God
and God's going to do just give you all your wildest dreams.
But if you just say a prayer andbelieve hard enough.
And it would really help people who are in the prosperity gospel

(56:27):
'cause they need to know here's the man.
Yeah, this is so good because the your audience, basically the
people that need to hear this stuff are the people who are
under these features, not me. I agree.
Right. Like, I agree that there.
I can clearly see Costy, Hen Riley.
We can clearly see, yes, there'sa stewardship.

(56:48):
There's this is that that's youraudience.
These are the people that need to hear this because they are
the ones that are trying to better their life.
They're wanting to get a job, they're working, but they're
giving all their money to sow a seed so that they, they believe
that that's how they're going toget more money.
And you're saying, no, there's an actual better way.

(57:09):
And so that's your, your audience.
Like those are the people that really need to hear it.
And the supplemental teachings that you are saying fix that
problem because it's biblical and it, it makes it so that they
can, they have that hunger, right?
Like they I'm trying to find thewords for it, but it's like what
you were saying, Like it, it, itpeople have these gifts, these

(57:31):
talents that the enemy steals. OK.
And and uses it in the most unbiblical way, but makes it
look biblical and it's just spiritual theft.
And so if there's a way to say, actually, yeah, there there is a
biblical right, good holy way todo this, It's it's it's part of

(57:53):
what our country's about. There's other areas that you can
go. You don't need to go to this
prosperity teacher. And not only are you telling
them logically and economically that this isn't right, but
you're also telling them this isspiritually wrong.
So, yeah, but I would disagree. I don't think that you're over
here. I'm not talking about them, but

(58:15):
maybe I'll give you a little push and say, yeah, maybe you
should kind of pin that one downbecause you're writing a book
that's basically against the prosperity gospel and this
poverty mindset that they have. So yeah, for whatever it's
worth. No, that's actually really
helpful. Thank you.
Thank you for clarifying that, Melissa, you're, you're awesome.
You're the best. Hey, thank you so much for
watching this video all the way to the end.

(58:36):
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